Log for #openttd on 26th May 2013:
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07:28:12  <Terkhen> good morning
07:35:01  <Alberth> morning Terkhen
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07:39:33  <Rubidium> moin
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08:35:50  <Wolf01> moin
08:46:31  <Alberth> moin
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08:59:40  <JVassie> aloha
08:59:51  <JVassie> apparently OFTC has banned mibbit
09:02:28  <JVassie> anyone around to answer a (hopefully) simple question about minGW setup on win 7 pls?
09:02:59  <JVassie> my windows user name originally had no spaces in it
09:03:18  <JVassie> however upon getting a new pc, i forgot all about mingw and created the user accoutn with a space
09:03:35  <JVassie> this seems to cause some issues with installing libraries etc for mingw
09:04:03  <JVassie> i have tried renaming my windows account and restarting, however reinstalling mingw still creates a home directory with a space in it
09:06:10  <Rubidium> JVassie: is that home directory in your "my documents"? Then changing "my documents"' path might work
09:06:30  <Alberth> do you have a link to some oftc message about it?
09:06:33  <JVassie> C:/MinGW/msys/1.0/home
09:06:45  <JVassie> is where the home directory is created
09:07:28  <JVassie> Alberth, i tried twice to connect to oftc using chat applet on forums, and then twice again from mibbits website, both gave a message about being banned, 1 sec ill grab it
09:07:49  <JVassie> Closing Link: (Banned)
09:07:53  <JVassie> for example
09:08:02  <JVassie> Closing Link: (Banned)
09:08:03  <JVassie> etc
09:10:23  <JVassie> I would have thought changing username and restarting would fix it
09:10:26  <JVassie> but apprently not :(
09:11:54  <Alberth> my guess is that you have a username configured in mingw at install time
09:12:00  <Alberth> can you add another user?
09:12:13  <Alberth> (in mingw)
09:12:22  <JVassie> err, not sure how, can try to i guess
09:12:31  <Alberth> usually with an 'adduser' command
09:12:37  <JVassie>
09:12:41  <Alberth> or 'useradd' :)
09:12:43  <JVassie> ive been starting from that 'each' time
09:13:49  <Alberth> I don't know much about mingw; I run Linux natively
09:14:51  <JVassie> hmm
09:15:05  <JVassie> think it best to create a new windows account
09:15:16  <JVassie> i notice it hasnt renamed my 'users' folder for example
09:15:27  <Alberth> given that oftc has no official news item about it, my guess is that they are fighting a spam attack
09:16:20  <JVassie> will brb
09:16:24  <Alberth> :)
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09:23:55  <JVassie> new windows user account
09:24:01  <JVassie> lets hope that solves it :)
09:25:25  <Alberth> just install Linux ;p
09:25:43  <JVassie> a trial for another day i think
09:25:54  <JVassie> having linux on a seperate partition would be nice i guess
09:27:54  <JVassie> woo
09:28:03  <JVassie> i have a home directory with no spaces!
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09:37:39  <TinoDidriksen> No need for separate partitions; just use VirtualBox.
09:38:17  <_aD> that's a nasty bug in mingw
09:38:20  <JVassie> i shall investigate
09:39:31  <TinoDidriksen> _aD, not just MinGW. Very few build systems handle paths with spaces in them.
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09:40:00  <_aD> Sounds like that part of computing is stuck in 1985
09:40:51  <_aD> much like my attempts to play OpenTTD
09:40:59  <TinoDidriksen> It's not trivial to handle spaces everywhere. Correct escaping and quoting can get really messy.
09:41:08  <_aD> I learn something or improve a method and start again...
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10:13:23  <Alberth> _aD: the most important point is to have fun playing the game
10:20:18  <_aD> and I'm certainly doing that
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16:26:20  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!] by DorpsGek
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17:45:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25286 trunk/src/lang/gaelic.txt (2013-05-26 17:45:10 UTC)
17:45:18  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:19  <DorpsGek> gaelic - 46 changes by GunChleoc
17:46:52  <Zuu> As it is quiet here, to replace my system SSD disk with a larger one, is using dd from a Linux live CD enough, or is there a reson to go with something else? (the system SSD is used by Windows which IIRC just uses one big partion that spanns the whole disk)
17:50:35  <Alberth> dd would also set partition sizes, and/or disk sizes, wouldn't it?
17:51:12  <Alberth> in particular, to the old values
17:51:45  <Zuu> Hmm, yes, so I would need to extend the partion afterwards using GParted, so as it seems to be able to copy partions, I should maybe try with that first. And of course think twice before wiping my system disk. :-)
17:52:23  <Alberth> I do that every 6 months  while switching to the next Fedora Release :)
17:53:06  <Zuu> Well, with Linux it is easy as there is no mechanism trying to stop you from copy it. With windows some DRM may try to kick you for upgrading your PC.
17:53:37  <Alberth> yes, commercial software is soooo nice to use ;p
17:56:47  <Zuu> I could of course mount eg C:\Users on the new disk or so, but its easiest to have the largest one for generic stuff and have as few specialized partions as possible.
17:57:39  <Alberth> I do have a /home partition so I don't need to copy my user data each time
18:01:06  <Mazur> SAme with /usr/local
18:03:34  <Alberth> Good point, although in my case, I have no custom system-wide installed software
18:09:14  <Mazur> I put all the stuff I use frmo outside the depositories there.
18:09:28  <Mazur> Like openttd.
18:09:35  <Alberth> :)
18:09:37  <Mazur> Several versions, in fact.
18:09:49  <Mazur> nightly and testing.
18:09:55  <Alberth> I only have stuff in repositories :)
18:10:49  <Mazur> Most of the stuff I used to have to put there, like xv, elm, and other thingies, have by now been included, to hte need is lesser.
18:11:21  <Alberth> yeah, standard package managers are very complete nowadays
18:11:30  <Mazur> There's no subsitute for elm in working on a sequential mail file.
18:12:13  <Alberth> that is a text-oriented client, isn't it?
18:12:38  <Alberth> I have been using pine for a long time, which is also text-based and simple and fast
18:13:30  <Alberth> but it failed at some point, and I use thunderbird since then
18:14:03  <Zuu> Possible at HTML based emails? :-)
18:14:27  <Alberth> html based emails are broken by concept :p
18:15:19  <Alberth> in particular when the software creating them does not follow the RFC for it, and only generate the html version, instead of both html and a text version
18:15:29  <Zuu> Well, it is half broken as most things don't work in Outlook as in web browsers. However, it is quite useful to highlight parts of your email with a colour etc.
18:17:16  <Zuu> Eg, if you ever tried to craft a HTML email by hand to be received by Outlook receivers, you'll feel some pain. :-)
18:18:32  <Alberth> I only write plain text stuff, eg .rst files
18:20:13  <Mazur> Alberth, I used to use elm to find and fix broken headers in plain mail files.
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19:10:44  <_aD> I've had plenty of multi-part emails with a text/plain part and nothing in it
19:10:54  <_aD> the heretics!
19:23:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25287 /trunk/src (61 files in 5 dirs) (2013-05-26 19:23:42 UTC)
19:23:49  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Keep a reference to the WindowDesc in the Window after construction.
19:24:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25288 /trunk/src (window.cpp window_gui.h) (2013-05-26 19:24:11 UTC)
19:24:18  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: No need to copy the WindowDesc flags if the WindowDesc is directly accessible.
19:24:43  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25289 /trunk/src (5 files) (2013-05-26 19:24:37 UTC)
19:24:44  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Store width of statusbar and main toolbar directly in the WindowDesc.
19:25:07  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25290 /trunk/src (56 files in 5 dirs) (2013-05-26 19:25:01 UTC)
19:25:08  <DorpsGek> -Add: Assign string names to notable windows.
19:27:28  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25291 /trunk (11 files in 3 dirs) (2013-05-26 19:27:22 UTC)
19:27:29  <DorpsGek> -Add: WindowDesc ability to load and store information in a config file.
19:27:50  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25292 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-05-26 19:27:44 UTC)
19:27:51  <DorpsGek> -Feature: Save stickyness of windows when Ctrl+Clicking the sticky button.
19:29:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25293 /trunk (7 files in 3 dirs) (2013-05-26 19:29:43 UTC)
19:29:49  <DorpsGek> -Add: GUI sprite for default window size button.
19:30:13  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25294 /trunk/src (34 files in 4 dirs) (2013-05-26 19:30:07 UTC)
19:30:14  <DorpsGek> -Feature: Add another button to window title bars to resize the window to its default size.
19:30:38  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25295 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-05-26 19:30:31 UTC)
19:30:39  <DorpsGek> -Feature: Allow saving window sizes as default sizes.
19:32:59  <Supercheese> Ooooh, I hope that feature is what I think it is
19:34:14  <Rubidium> available in your stable openttd in like a year ;)
19:34:21  <Supercheese> Haha, stable
19:34:26  <Supercheese> I haven't run stables in years
19:34:46  <Supercheese> But anyway, \o/
19:34:47  <frosch123> well, not sure whether it will ever hit chillpp
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19:37:04  <Supercheese> I also haven't used that in years :P
19:37:06  <V453000> which thing? :)
19:39:41  <Supercheese> I just received a request; I'm wondering if I should just do as requested or if there would be a better solution:
19:41:12  <Alberth> how would setting the price solve that?
19:41:32  <Supercheese> It seems to be related to TownCars AI parameters:
19:41:38  <Supercheese> "Only build zero price RVs" and such
19:42:38  <Supercheese> It might be better to instead set zero capacity, or something
19:42:56  <V453000> randomize cargo capacity?
19:42:57  <V453000> :>
19:43:03  <Supercheese> -_-
19:43:13  <Alberth> still, if you change the newgrf property, it changes for all players, wouldn't it?
19:43:13  <V453000>  /nutjobs are silent
19:43:35  <Alberth> V453000: thanks for the merger link
19:43:37  <Supercheese> The AI parameters are set on a per-AI basis, no?
19:43:55  <V453000> you are welcome :P writing that page took a while so might as well use it :)
19:44:03  <Supercheese> I think he wants one AI to have different parameters such that it builds emergency vehicles, whereas others don't
19:44:36  <Alberth> that would seem to be his intention, I agree :)
19:45:17  <Alberth> wouldn't it be easier to change the AI itself?
19:45:40  <Supercheese> Not for me, as I am not the AI author :P
19:45:51  <Alberth> no idea what you can query about a vehicle though :(
19:45:52  <Supercheese> But yeah, that would allow for more elegant solutions
19:46:43  <Alberth> V453000: I bookmarked it, so when I have a tricky merge thingie, I'll have a closer look :)
19:47:25  <V453000> obviously it does include the complicated ones, but it explains the very most basic logic too
19:47:27  <Supercheese> Oh $%&#, I readied an update to Eyecandy RVs a while ago and forgot to post it
19:47:36  <Supercheese> whoops
19:48:33  <Alberth> my concept of 'complicated' is not very related to your concept of 'complicated' :p
19:48:44  <Supercheese> Well at least now I can try to fill that request
19:48:54  <Alberth> Supercheese:  :)
19:49:06  <Zuu> Supercheese: If you want to change something about TownCars AI, you can ask me. If you want to change StreetTraffic, you need to find the author af that fork.
19:49:29  <Supercheese> I'm still not sure what the best solution path is
19:50:00  <V453000> of course Alberth, that is why I mention the basic logic :) because that is what helps
19:50:48  <Alberth> at least it helps to understand the remainder of the page :p
19:51:13  <V453000> well that too :)
19:51:24  <Supercheese> The suggestion of increasing purchase cost to  would allow parameters to select AIs to: build Cars only, build Cars+EVs, but there'd be no way to specify building EVs only
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19:51:47  <Alberth> Supercheese: imho, changing the AI would be the clean solution, but I don't know whether you can express in the AI code what you want
19:52:29  <Supercheese> A paramter to reduce capacities to zero has similar problems
19:52:32  <Supercheese> parameter*
19:53:20  <Alberth> yeah, solving it in newgrf is the wrong solution
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19:54:17  <Supercheese> Hmmm :S
19:54:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25296 /trunk/src (15 files in 6 dirs) (2013-05-26 19:54:43 UTC)
19:54:49  <DorpsGek> -Feature: Goals can now have a progress text and/or be marked as completed.
19:57:47  <Alberth> Supercheese: if you want to stick with costs to select cars, I would think an AI can query the price, and compare with any value
19:58:31  <Alberth> so give each group a unique price, and let the AI author handle the selection?
19:59:07  <Supercheese> That seems so... hard-coded and non-generic :S
19:59:14  <Supercheese> unflexible
20:00:16  <Alberth> it's not less flexible than currently :p     but yeah, there is ample room for further improvement :p
20:01:58  <frosch123> feature day :)
20:04:24  <Alberth> :)
20:07:01  <Alberth> Supercheese: then perhaps feed the AI with a list of vehicle names?  suggests you can query it
20:10:44  <Alberth> good night
20:10:54  <Supercheese> 'night
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20:17:13  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25297 trunk/src/window.cpp (2013-05-26 20:17:07 UTC)
20:17:14  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25291): 32bit compilation.
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20:23:12  <__ln__> i really liked all the references to the past in the new star trek.
20:24:04  <frosch123> yeah, proper version control
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20:41:12  <__ln__> also the less obvious ones, like the blonde girl
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20:56:41  <Zuu> Hmm, if a script calls a DoCommand in world gen (in exec mode), it will return the same value as calling the method in TestMode,
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21:00:40  <Zuu> The issue is that the way return values are returned from C++ functions back to Squirrel is based upon that the script get suspended by throwing a specific class. If said class is not throw, test mode behaviour is implied.
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21:06:38  <Zuu> hmm, solving this is quite complicated so I make a ticket of it.
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21:10:11  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:16:31  <__ln__> well spotted
21:24:08  <Zuu> I noticed it when trying to speed up my script that creates 5000 goals.
21:24:49  <frosch123> wasn't the command execution on game start broken anyway?
21:25:01  <Zuu> That script also set the progress status which for some strange reason only worked for the first goal. (later I now know, that is because GSGoal::New always returns 0 in world gen.
21:25:20  <frosch123> i.e. the first sleep resp. command execution would start the game
21:25:39  <Zuu> First sleep starts the game. That is by design.
21:25:50  <frosch123> yeah, but first command also does
21:25:52  <Zuu> First do command do not start the game.
21:25:53  <frosch123> afaik
21:26:11  <frosch123> don't commands imply a sleep?
21:26:32  <Zuu> At least the world gen dialog is still showing and progressing (quite slowly as I use a debug build)
21:26:46  <frosch123> ok, maybe it was fixed :)
21:27:37  <Zuu> One easy way to fix the above bug is to re-introduce the bug that the game starts when you issue a DoCommand. :-)
21:28:01  <frosch123> :p
21:28:01  <Zuu> That is probably just a one-liner.
21:28:25  <Zuu> Fixing it without doing that is quite a bit harder as it introduce a third return path from the method.
21:30:23  <Zuu> Eg. override the return value by the API method (and use the value pushed to the stack using the callback), but don't suspend the script. I could possible hack something togeather by introducing a new class that is thrown in world gen and catch it at some apporite place without throwing it up further.
21:31:07  <Zuu> However, it is also nice if that catch location is not an internal part of Squirrel.
21:31:42  <frosch123> well, maybe the command could be issued differently
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21:32:00  <frosch123> during world gen it does not necessarily have to suspend the script
21:32:18  <frosch123> the command does not need sending over netowrk, but could be executed directly
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21:36:15  <Zuu> All APIs that call a DoCommand are currently implemented so that they don't return the return value from the Squirrel DoCommand helper method. That helper only returns if the command succeded or not. The return value to the squirrel script is pushed into the stack and then the script is suspended by throwing an exception. Thus, a fix that involves returning the return value back to the API method means changing a lot of API methods.
21:37:20  <APTX> does that mean exceptions do standard behaviour?
21:37:38  <Zuu> yes
21:37:43  <APTX> funny
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21:39:02  <Zuu> Dig into src/script/api/script_object.cpp:301 if you want to see it.
21:39:50  <frosch123> night
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21:40:02  <Zuu> Here is the call from one API method:
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21:48:54  <Terkhen> good night
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