Log for #openttd on 1st June 2013:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:26  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
00:06:34  *** Stimrol [] has joined #openttd
00:23:03  *** snorre_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:26:34  *** snorre [] has joined #openttd
00:26:56  *** Elukka [] has quit []
00:39:58  *** roboboy [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:40:38  <Mazur> I read: nobody has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:42:18  <Eddi|zuHause> @seen nobody
00:42:18  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: I have not seen nobody.
00:43:43  <Eddi|zuHause> now __ must complain sbout DorpsGek's grammar :P
00:53:00  *** Stimrol [] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
00:54:08  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye !]
00:57:38  *** Stimrol [] has joined #openttd
01:37:35  *** Nat_aS [] has joined #openttd
01:51:37  *** pugi [] has quit []
02:37:50  *** SineTheCreator [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
02:38:06  *** SineTheCreator [] has joined #openttd
03:58:05  *** tycoondemon [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:58:21  *** tycoondemon [] has joined #openttd
04:00:28  *** snorre_ [] has joined #openttd
04:02:31  *** joho [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:02:44  *** joho [] has joined #openttd
04:03:35  *** snorre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:56:02  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
04:56:15  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
05:18:51  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
05:49:58  *** robotboy [] has joined #openttd
05:56:25  *** roboboy [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
05:56:30  *** cyph3r [] has joined #openttd
06:36:29  *** robotboy [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:38:33  *** Alberth [] has joined #openttd
06:38:36  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
06:40:38  *** cyph3r [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
06:41:07  <Alberth> moin
06:49:54  *** adit [~Adit@] has joined #openttd
06:50:33  *** adit is now known as Guest556
06:51:22  *** Guest556 [~Adit@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:54:41  *** NICKLOM [~Adit@] has joined #openttd
06:56:13  *** NICKLOM is now known as adit
06:56:38  *** wakou2 [] has joined #openttd
06:59:54  *** adit [~Adit@] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc]
07:33:19  *** Pensacola [] has joined #openttd
07:42:37  *** sla_ro|master [] has joined #openttd
07:44:59  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25312 /trunk/src (5 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-01 07:44:53 UTC)
07:45:00  <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish: missing spaces after comma + realignment of tables; quite boring with -x -w
07:51:11  *** ZxBiohazardZx [] has joined #openttd
08:03:16  *** Pensacola [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:07:36  <Alberth> :)
08:08:42  *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:10:01  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd
08:13:52  *** pugi [] has joined #openttd
08:51:45  *** permagreen [~donovan@] has joined #openttd
08:59:31  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
09:21:57  *** namad8 [] has joined #openttd
09:26:21  *** namad7 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:28:11  *** ntoskrnl [] has joined #openttd
09:29:38  *** perk11 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:33:51  *** adit [~Adit@] has joined #openttd
09:34:23  *** adit is now known as Guest570
09:35:34  *** Guest570 is now known as adit
09:40:57  *** adit is now known as Guest571
09:41:11  *** adit [~user@] has joined #openttd
09:41:46  <Alberth> stable connection seems quite hard to get :)
09:43:38  *** Guest571 [~Adit@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:53:26  *** zooks [] has joined #openttd
10:03:38  *** adit is now known as Guest574
10:04:36  *** Guest574 [~user@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
10:07:22  *** Alice3 [] has joined #openttd
10:24:57  *** Ristovski [~rafael@] has joined #openttd
10:47:08  *** ntoskrnl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:49:18  *** zooks [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:51:15  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
10:52:56  *** zooks [] has joined #openttd
11:01:48  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
11:02:17  <Wolf01> moin
11:06:35  <Alberth> moin
11:08:40  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
11:09:34  *** zooks [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:09:57  *** zooks [] has joined #openttd
11:19:13  *** zooks [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:22:59  *** zooks [] has joined #openttd
11:36:38  *** zooks [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:37:01  *** zooks [] has joined #openttd
11:49:13  *** zooks [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:53:03  *** zooks [] has joined #openttd
12:04:05  *** snorre [] has joined #openttd
12:05:56  *** snorre_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:20:58  *** snorre_ [] has joined #openttd
12:22:44  *** snorre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:30:13  *** zooks [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:36:58  *** perk11 [] has joined #openttd
12:52:09  *** snorre [] has joined #openttd
12:53:59  *** snorre_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:54:26  *** ZxBiohazardZx [] has quit [Quit: Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day]
12:54:52  *** Elukka [] has joined #openttd
12:58:19  *** adit [~Adit@] has joined #openttd
12:58:43  *** adit is now known as Guest591
12:58:55  *** Guest591 is now known as adit
13:01:03  *** adit [~Adit@] has quit []
13:20:54  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
13:23:20  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd
13:29:24  *** tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o]
13:36:00  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
13:39:51  <frosch123> "Hello My Name Is Filip, Me And My Friend Were Both 13 years old and would like to lern a little bit about coding, if your intrested in tetching us please send back a mail." <- should openttd open a teaching division?
13:40:49  *** fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
13:41:06  <fonsinchen> I'm back
13:43:30  <V453000> just send them an easy quest what to code frosch123  :) without high expectations
13:43:47  *** wakou2 [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
13:44:09  <frosch123> V453000: any suggestion? :)
13:44:31  <frosch123> maybe i should just link them to the compile yourself guide
13:44:52  <V453000> you are asking me about coding
13:45:01  <V453000> not the best idea :P
13:45:14  <V453000> all I know is that it runs on rainbow
13:45:17  <perk11> frosch123: ask them to add threads to openttd
13:45:40  <V453000> compiler is something like a unicorn-powered wheel which outputs fun stuff out of wtf letters, numbers and other characters
13:46:44  <frosch123> which letter is the most wtf? "^"?
13:47:03  <Alberth> 2?
13:48:36  <Alberth> frosch123: suggest to learn Python first
13:49:56  <perk11> yeah like this
13:50:59  <Alberth> oh, I've always wanted to learn C :)
13:51:37  <frosch123> which one? k&r?
13:53:11  <Alberth> int foo(int bar) {  <-- apparently not
13:54:23  <frosch123> haha, i would be surprised if a tutorial would cover k&r :p
13:54:57  <Alberth> :)
13:56:28  <Alberth> perk11: XML parsing is missing :(
13:56:59  <perk11> well I guess because it's not a basic feature
13:58:54  <Alberth> list comprehension is also not so comprehensive if you don't know it already :p
14:00:45  <perk11> well I don't actually write a lot in python but in my experience lists are used there very often :)
14:01:10  <perk11> oh there's an emty page for XML tutorial
14:01:13  <perk11> didn't notice :)
14:02:50  *** LadyHawk [] has joined #openttd
14:02:53  <frosch123> hmm, i remember some python bootcamp site...
14:03:01  <frosch123> Alberth: weren't you involved into something like that?
14:03:05  <LadyHawk> hi all
14:03:23  <frosch123> it also covered shell and regex and such
14:03:45  <LadyHawk> i'm playing ottd again for a bit and cannot remember how to alter the lookahead setting in the console for the train pathfinding.. can someone remind me please?
14:03:46  <Alberth> not that I am aware
14:04:09  <Mazur> I'm sure I can drag up a K&R tutorial, think I have one in my bookcase.
14:04:25  <LadyHawk> i found some settings in the wiki but the console just tells me ERROR: command not found
14:04:47  <Mazur> Check your spelling yet?
14:04:59  <Rubidium> welcome back fonsinchen
14:05:03  <perk11> it's setting setting_name
14:05:14  <perk11> not just setting_name
14:05:39  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
14:05:42  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
14:06:34  <fonsinchen> I've just pushed a fix for the desync in cargodist.
14:06:57  <LadyHawk> ? so with the YAPF routing.. and the setting 'rail_look_ahead_max_signals' i want to change to 6
14:06:57  <perk11> is it totally fixed?
14:07:04  <LadyHawk> what is the command format of that?
14:07:09  <fonsinchen> I haven't figured out the 140 misrouted crates in your savegame. I will add some asserts to catch those things next time, though.
14:07:42  <fonsinchen> The git branch looks a bit messy atm. I will clean it up soon.
14:08:29  <LadyHawk> or rather, change it to 2
14:09:13  <perk11> LadyHawk: it says it's an unknown setting
14:09:36  <LadyHawk>
14:09:43  <LadyHawk> so what is the *actual* setting then?
14:09:56  <Rubidium> fonsinchen: yeah, I broke it in a few places, didn't I ;)
14:10:05  <perk11> LadyHawk: setting yapf.rail_look_ahead_max_signals 2
14:11:05  <Alberth> 'listsettings'  suggests a "pf." prefix before "yapf"
14:11:21  <perk11> worked without pf for me
14:11:34  <Alberth> maybe it's smart :)
14:11:40  <LadyHawk> thanks a ton
14:11:41  <perk11> but it's for the current game only
14:11:54  <perk11> if you want it for newgame change openttd.cfg
14:12:03  <LadyHawk> maybe this command line should be in the wiki
14:12:18  <LadyHawk> i didn't know what was missing from it :)
14:12:24  <fonsinchen> That wasn't much of a problem. I'm happy you merged some code into trunk. My bug fixes floating on top of the cd branch are somewhat ugly, though.
14:12:47  <Alberth> LadyHawk: feel free to add it
14:13:10  <LadyHawk> current game only is what i was looking for.. some games i make to deliberately cram as much traffic onto a bit of track as possible with the fastest flow through possible
14:13:23  <perk11>
14:13:25  <Alberth> it may save you from searching it again later :)
14:13:30  <perk11> I belive set is an alias for setting
14:13:53  <LadyHawk> and with the signals looking ahead so high, trains keep blocking off rail mergers while they shouldnt because they see traffic way too far in front of them
14:14:07  <Alberth> perk11: looks that way indeed
14:14:41  <perk11> LadyHawk: not sure what are you talking about, but there should be another solution
14:15:21  <LadyHawk> i'm all ears?
14:16:07  <perk11> could you provide a save?
14:16:31  <LadyHawk> i have nowhere to upload it but i have a save i can give you yes
14:17:50  <Alberth>  ?
14:18:25  <frosch123> <- ah, found the site i remembered alberth linked to me (indirectly) :p
14:19:11  <Alberth> oh that one :)     that's for real scientists only :D
14:19:38  <perk11> :D
14:20:21  <heffer_> on fedora 19+ i managed to build the RC1 of 1.3.1 but not 1.3.1 due to
14:20:42  <heffer_> therefor we'll probably have to wait for that to be fixed before seeing 1.3.1 on Fedora 19+
14:20:44  *** heffer_ is now known as heffer
14:21:08  <frosch123> yeah, intenal compile failures are quite random :)
14:21:10  <Rubidium> heffer: yay ;)
14:21:16  <LadyHawk> hm
14:21:18  <frosch123> touch some random chars and ti works again
14:21:30  <perk11> heffer_: you can use alternate gcc version?
14:21:48  <Rubidium> and clang isn't useful either:
14:21:53  <LadyHawk> Your file is now available a few different ways:
14:21:53  <LadyHawk>     With a filename:
14:21:53  <LadyHawk>     Without a filename (default used):
14:22:02  <heffer> perk11: well, not when building for the official fedora repos
14:22:15  <perk11> oh
14:22:43  <LadyHawk> that's with lookahead on 4.. if you set the lookahead in that save to about 7 or so, or whatever the default is, that merger block on the screen will blockup fast
14:23:01  <heffer> i have to use whatever the build systems use
14:23:14  <perk11> LadyHawk: wow that looks mad
14:23:15  <heffer> on F19+ this is gcc-4.8.0-8.fc19.x86_64
14:23:32  <LadyHawk> yeah
14:23:48  <LadyHawk> long trains would be an easy solution but that specific game isn't about that
14:23:56  <LadyHawk> it's about the amount of traffic.. the more, the better
14:24:04  <LadyHawk> to try to get it to flow right
14:24:17  <LadyHawk> it's a challenge
14:24:57  <LadyHawk> the trains still don't behave right but the lower the lookahead, the better they behave
14:25:07  <LadyHawk> i just cant reduce it any further because it'll break the depot blocks
14:25:37  <perk11> I set it to 7 and don't see where a problem is
14:26:00  <LadyHawk> preferrably if there's a setting so you can set trains to ignore anything after the 1st signal they come across, that would fix the issue completely
14:26:55  <perk11> why you use PBS that could be passed through in reverse direction?
14:27:08  <perk11> use one-way
14:27:33  <LadyHawk> ?
14:28:06  <LadyHawk> it's an old save but all pbs signals i can see are one way
14:28:35  <LadyHawk> and the whole thing is already blocked up for me, all the trains queued up.. that's bad
14:28:40  <LadyHawk> on lookahead 8
14:29:03  <LadyHawk> trains stop and wait because they see 'no clear path' they look ahead too far
14:29:12  <LadyHawk> while the signal in front of their faces is green
14:29:16  <LadyHawk> and they should keep going
14:29:22  <LadyHawk> rather than stop and block everything off
14:29:29  <perk11> LadyHawk:
14:29:41  <LadyHawk> they are one way?
14:29:46  <perk11> no they are not
14:29:57  <perk11> but where exactly do they stop?
14:30:14  <LadyHawk> those ones can be fed with a normal one way signal
14:30:20  <LadyHawk> said the description on them
14:31:01  <perk11> those are just like one way PBS
14:31:11  <perk11> except they can be passed through in other direction
14:31:17  <perk11> as there were no signal
14:31:53  <LadyHawk> so looking at that block.. what signals should i be using?
14:32:05  <perk11> one-way PBS
14:32:22  <perk11> the last one in the signal selection menu
14:33:54  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25313 /trunk/src (9 files) (2013-06-01 14:33:48 UTC)
14:33:55  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Do not assume '8' to be the broadest digit, but test all of them.
14:34:13  <LadyHawk> done
14:34:22  <LadyHawk> but that still doesn't fix my lookahead issue
14:34:47  <perk11> I still don't get it
14:35:36  <LadyHawk> 1 train will happily block off 2 out of the 3 flow through paths, if it sees a train 5 green signals ahead of its go-straight-over path
14:35:41  <LadyHawk> by switching to a different path
14:35:54  <LadyHawk> because it 'sees' this train and applies an extra penalty that tells it to switch
14:35:56  <perk11> ah you meant that
14:35:57  <LadyHawk> it sees too far ahead
14:36:17  <perk11> well it doesn't know it blocks other trains
14:36:41  <LadyHawk> true, but i dont wait it to see anything other than the first green signal in front of its face :)
14:36:45  <perk11> maybe priority will help you
14:36:46  <LadyHawk> that would solve the issue 100%
14:37:06  <perk11>
14:37:16  * LadyHawk investigates
14:38:22  <fonsinchen>
14:38:27  <perk11> but presignals don't work well with crosses like that
14:38:32  <fonsinchen> Maybe someone wants to comment that ...
14:40:36  <perk11> so this article actually desribes how to make an efficient merger
14:41:53  <LadyHawk> i'm not sure this priority thing is something i can use.. because it just adds extra waiting time that does the opposite of what i try to do
14:42:15  <LadyHawk> the mergers i've been all over.. the one there is more efficient with stupidly large amounts of traffic
14:42:22  <LadyHawk> the one i use i mean
14:43:05  <perk11> you know there's such traffic in openttdcoop games
14:43:09  <perk11> or even more
14:43:25  <perk11> and it's solve with mergers described on a link above
14:47:20  *** kero [] has joined #openttd
14:47:52  <LadyHawk> i've changed the one way signals after the pbs block into 2 way so trains pick 'any' rather than 'track they think they need' and no change in behaviour
14:48:29  <LadyHawk> trains still refuse to pick the green signal in front of their face if there's a train somehwere on the track in range of their 'lookahead' setting
14:48:49  <perk11> that's a downside of PBS, yes
14:49:23  <perk11> you either accept it or build a complex merger using priorities and presignals
14:49:34  <perk11> or change pathfinder setting as it turns out :)
14:49:57  <perk11> but it might lead to blocks if the traffic stops somewhere ahead I guess
14:52:39  <LadyHawk> i'm trying to wrap my head around the other yapf settings atm
14:52:45  <LadyHawk> setting different penalty values
14:52:53  <LadyHawk> whether that's something i can use
14:54:37  <LadyHawk> despite the 'oi leave me alone' warning slapped on it
14:54:41  <LadyHawk> sounds fun XD
14:58:50  <perk11> you need something like this but 7->3 instead of 4->3
15:00:56  <LadyHawk> i'd have to rebuild that to see how trains behave on it to be honest
15:01:22  <LadyHawk> i've found if you go straight from 7-3 it blocks up.. too much merging with trains having no options to move
15:01:27  <LadyHawk> that's why i went 7-5-3
15:02:24  <LadyHawk> i'll see if i can go 7-4 rebuild that link-3
15:02:25  <LadyHawk> or something
15:02:37  <LadyHawk> see if it can even deal with 207 trains
15:04:56  <LadyHawk> first thing i'm going to do is see which lines connect to which lines what signals it's using because that looks interesting with entrance/exits
15:05:05  <perk11> LadyHawk: this is what we had to build for 10->5 in the last game
15:06:00  <LadyHawk> howmany trains were running over that block?
15:06:54  <perk11> 627
15:08:49  <LadyHawk> hmm
15:09:17  <LadyHawk> on that link you gave me..
15:09:49  <perk11> yes?
15:09:52  <LadyHawk> the 2 lines on the outsides have the option to go to 2 of the 3 lines... and the inner 2 lines have the option of going wherever they feel like
15:10:01  <LadyHawk> but none cross their own paths
15:10:06  <LadyHawk> in the process
15:10:12  <LadyHawk> hence entrance/exits rather than pbs
15:10:39  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25314 /trunk/src (3 files) (2013-06-01 15:10:32 UTC)
15:10:40  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25313): If '0' is the broadest digit, 0 * sum(10^i, i=0..(n-1)) is not the broadest n-digit number.
15:10:41  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5562]: Proper size-estimation for numbers with n digits.
15:10:57  <perk11> yes as I said you'll have to rebuild it, not just change signals
15:11:05  <LadyHawk> yeah
15:11:24  <LadyHawk> it's kinda complicated which is adding to the challenge,.. it's good lol
15:11:50  <LadyHawk> but i must say i hate the look of it so i want to move the lines over a bit as well XD
15:21:44  *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:22:19  <LadyHawk> i'm not sure about this setup
15:24:40  <SineTheCreator> i shouldn't have built airports. god they're overpowered :/
15:24:47  *** Alice3 [] has quit []
15:25:20  <planetmaker> good evening
15:25:29  <SineTheCreator> hey planetmaker
15:26:10  <SineTheCreator> btw, while i'm here - i'm using the trains in the north american renewal set and while realistic they are incredibly expensive. is there a way to lower the costs a little?
15:26:41  <LadyHawk> i really am not sure about this setup as i'm recreating it... because.. they choose a path based on current availability.. but by the time they actually hit the merger, it may well be blocked.. too much space in between
15:26:58  <SineTheCreator> also, is there a newgrf that does a similar thing for planes?
15:27:13  <Pinkbeast> AV8
15:27:25  <frosch123> planetmaker: hi, did you swim home? :)
15:28:15  <planetmaker> actually no. It was a day without much rain
15:28:27  <planetmaker> but overcast at ~15°C and strong winds
15:30:12  <SineTheCreator> Pinkbeast: av8'rs aircraft, i remember that now. thanks :D
15:33:53  <perk11> LadyHawk: that's intentional. In 4->3 some trains WILL have to wait
15:34:00  <perk11> just because it's less paths available
15:34:14  <LadyHawk> lol
15:34:35  <LadyHawk> just noticed i broke my game by setting lookahead to 1 signal
15:34:47  <LadyHawk> i think it's more like 1 tile rather than 1 signal
15:35:15  <LadyHawk> bf coming to get me, i'll battle on another day =)
15:35:20  <LadyHawk> ty for the thelp perk11
15:35:35  <LadyHawk> it's appriciated =)
15:36:04  <perk11> LadyHawk: I think you'd like building in openttdcoop style :) Check their wiki when you have time
15:36:25  <LadyHawk> will do
15:36:39  <LadyHawk> quitting now to avoid my laptop join/quit spamming
15:36:45  *** LadyHawk [] has quit [Quit: Boldly going forward coz we can't find reverse!]
15:47:28  <apiecux> there is a city (a megalopolis) which is not big (on ground), but the population doesn't grow up event when I buy new buildings.. what can be the reason?
15:48:21  <planetmaker> replacing existing buildings
15:48:31  <apiecux> it is not big, but there is enough space to create new buildings
15:49:28  <apiecux> (it is between other cities, I have looked what tiles are owned by this one)
16:22:28  *** ZxBiohazardZx [] has joined #openttd
16:34:42  <Ristovski> planetmaker: can't ottd use vector graphics?
16:35:01  *** Pensacola [] has joined #openttd
16:38:18  *** thphwh [] has joined #openttd
16:38:31  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
16:39:26  *** thphwh [] has quit []
16:40:52  <Rubidium> Ristovski: no
16:41:20  <Rubidium> apiecux: you might have overbuilt the "spawn" tile of the town (right below the town name)
16:41:27  <Ristovski> Rubidium: How so?
16:41:44  <Rubidium> Ristovski: because nobody implemented it
16:41:59  <Ristovski> Rubidium: I mean, if it could be implemented :D
16:42:07  <Ristovski> I mean, I wanted to ask if it would even work
16:42:25  <Rubidium> I see no reason why it would
16:42:31  *** ZxBiohazardZx [] has quit [Quit: Man who run behind car get exhausted]
16:42:41  <Rubidium> not work
16:42:52  <Rubidium> except that is might be very slow
16:43:00  <Ristovski> yeah, I guess it would be
16:43:45  <Ristovski> Rubidium: would allow infinite zoom levels tho
16:43:51  <Ristovski> without loosing quality
16:44:20  <Rubidium> infinite zoom in looks the same in both
16:44:47  <Ristovski> hmm
16:45:18  *** gelignite [] has joined #openttd
17:08:59  <apiecux> Rubidium: what do you mean by "overbuilt"?
17:09:42  <Rubidium> replaced by a station, industry or something like that
17:10:25  <apiecux> ah ok
17:10:34  <apiecux> that's probably the reason
17:39:11  *** LordAro [] has joined #openttd
17:39:41  * LordAro waves
17:41:57  *** LordAro [] has quit []
17:42:19  *** LordAro [] has joined #openttd
17:43:12  *** LordAro [] has quit []
17:43:29  *** LordAro [] has joined #openttd
17:44:15  <LordAro> that's better
17:45:09  *** Pensacola [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:45:40  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25315 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2013-06-01 17:45:29 UTC)
17:45:41  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:42  <DorpsGek> catalan - 33 changes by arnau
17:45:43  <DorpsGek> croatian - 4 changes by VoyagerOne
17:45:44  <DorpsGek> indonesian - 8 changes by Yoursnotmine
17:45:45  <DorpsGek> vietnamese - 19 changes by myquartz, nglekhoi
17:45:46  <DorpsGek> welsh - 5 changes by kazzie
17:46:51  * Alberth waves
17:47:19  <LordAro> hai Alberth
18:10:03  *** kero [] has quit [Quit: kero]
18:46:02  *** TheDude [] has joined #openttd
18:46:14  <TheDude> hello there
18:47:20  <TheDude> could you give me a hint please?
18:47:36  <TheDude> I am trying to generate template for GS library for some function I added with
18:48:00  <TheDude> but it is not added in generated template and also removed from game_instance.cpp
18:48:20  <TheDude> now I remember there was some guide for this, but I was unable to find it again :-(
18:53:02  <Alberth> is there?
18:53:34  <Alberth> I only know there is a src/script/api/  shell script
18:54:30  <LordAro> there is:
18:55:03  <LordAro> some of the filepaths might be outdated, but it's mostly all there
18:55:20  <LordAro> ..i think :L
18:56:13  <Alberth> useful, thanks
18:56:41  *** Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
18:58:29  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
18:58:32  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
19:02:52  <V453000> Message: Assertion failed at line 153 of /home/openttd/svn-publicserver/src/cargoaction.cpp: cp_new->Count() <= this->destination->reserved_count
19:02:54  <V453000> :<
19:03:40  <TheDude> thanks LordAro
19:06:26  <TheDude> but seems it is outdated
19:12:36  *** LadyHawk [] has joined #openttd
19:18:26  *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@] has joined #openttd
19:34:23  <TheDude> also what I want to add to squirrel scripts is new class and not a function
19:34:58  <TheDude> and launching in api folder does not generate new templates for it
19:38:17  <LordAro> you might have to add it to, or something
19:43:02  *** samu [] has joined #openttd
19:43:09  <samu> sup
19:44:26  <LordAro> TheDude: it seems your file should be included automagically: "
19:44:26  <TheDude> hm, there is no lines for it
19:44:33  <LordAro> "for f in `ls ../*.hpp`; do"
19:44:37  <TheDude> it would need to extend the generating script
19:44:52  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
19:44:57  <LordAro> you have a corresponding .hpp file, i assume?
19:44:58  <TheDude> nono, I have no new file, I added new class to script_townlist
19:45:05  <TheDude> to hpp and cpp
19:45:42  <TheDude> but the does not found the new class then
19:45:53  <TheDude> maybe it is not built for generating templates for new classes
19:45:59  <LordAro> well it should - it finds other classes
19:46:06  <TheDude> hm, true
19:46:22  <TheDude> but it does not, maybe I skipped something
19:47:10  <LordAro> TheDude: indeed
19:47:26  <LordAro> can you post your diff? (e.g.
19:47:58  <TheDude> sure
19:48:00  <frosch123> is there any other hpp file with two classes?
19:48:10  <TheDude> what do yo umean frosch?
19:48:15  <TheDude> let me post the diff
19:48:23  <frosch123> maybe it only works for one class per file
19:48:47  <LordAro> frosch123: nope (e.g. script_townlist.hpp)
19:48:55  <frosch123> ok, just guessing :)
19:49:09  <TheDude>
19:49:32  <TheDude> in in script_townlist.hpp are already two classes, I added third
19:50:30  <TheDude> actually I made all templates manually some time ago and it runs well, but after some time I found out those templates should be generated automatically, so I am trying to do it the right way now
19:51:16  <LordAro> and this compiles fine?
19:51:16  <TheDude> but as LordAro said, classes should be generated too
19:51:22  <TheDude> yes
19:51:53  <TheDude> with the templates I did manually
19:53:20  <LordAro> "../../network/luuk_cb.h" looks suspicious :P
19:54:07  <TheDude> yes, it is old luukland code ;-)
19:54:27  <TheDude> but even if I omit functions from external files, the class wont be found
19:54:27  <LordAro> they released it?
19:54:30  <TheDude> no
19:54:41  <LordAro> in that case, boo, hiss, etc
19:54:42  <TheDude> I am from old luukland team
19:54:44  <LordAro> :L
19:55:07  <TheDude> what is this negative emotions doing here :p
19:56:08  <LordAro> i think you'll probably find that everything luukland's servers did can now be done with goal scripts
19:56:20  <TheDude> not all
19:56:27  <TheDude> but very much indeed
19:56:31  <LordAro> most things, anyway
19:56:48  <TheDude> I know
19:56:55  <TheDude> but it is not that easy, you know
19:58:10  <LordAro> well, nothing about your code indicates that there's anything wrong
19:58:21  <LordAro> you sure your squirrel code is fine?
19:58:26  <LordAro> it should work :)
19:59:16  <LordAro> as far as i can tell
19:59:18  <LordAro> :L
19:59:54  <TheDude> yes
20:00:02  <TheDude> as I said, it works and runs on server
20:00:25  <TheDude> maybe I should move it to script_town as a function and not do it as a class
20:00:35  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20:00:51  <LordAro> maybe :L
20:02:23  <LordAro> what does the luukland code do that can't be done via goal scripts or the admin port? i'm struggling to thing of anything... :L
20:02:39  <LordAro> i never really played on the server much
20:02:44  <LordAro> *servers
20:03:50  <TheDude>  well
20:04:20  <TheDude> house destroying when town supply is not sufficient, private areas protection
20:05:01  <TheDude> town generation conditions, like small towns under 500 pop
20:05:06  <TheDude> and some details
20:05:13  <LordAro> can goal scripts not do that?
20:05:16  <TheDude> but I dont know what all can admin port do
20:05:20  <TheDude> no
20:05:25  <TheDude> but even if it can
20:05:30  <LordAro> could've sworn they could :L
20:05:35  <TheDude> should we rewrite whole code just because of that?
20:05:55  <TheDude> well, tell that to btpro and n-ice communities, they will be very happy if that worked alraedy
20:06:06  <TheDude> they use admin port and GS
20:06:52  <TheDude> you know, situation is, we have working robust code, rewriting it to AP and GS makes not much sense, as we would spend huge amount of time just to get the same or limitied functionality
20:07:00  <TheDude> I believe you can understand that
20:07:12  <LordAro> well, obviously it is preferable that you use a default/vanilla/unmodified version of ottd, as then support can be provided when things go wrong
20:07:38  <TheDude> what support you mean?
20:07:44  <LordAro> bugs, etc
20:07:55  <LordAro> even missing features, to some extent
20:08:02  <TheDude> well
20:08:23  <TheDude> bugs, if we discover bug we think is from vanilla, we test it on vanilla and then report it
20:08:30  <TheDude> otherwise it is our bug and we solve it
20:08:37  <LordAro> troo
20:08:54  *** TrueBrain [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:09:37  <LordAro> but still, no one (at this 'end') is very keen on you hacking the network protocols like you do
20:09:42  <TheDude> and I guess most of the features we would want doesnt make sense in openttd anyway
20:10:11  <LordAro> as desyncs etc caused by your servers get reported to 'us'
20:10:36  <TheDude> that is sad, I am sorry about that
20:11:34  <LordAro> you should be :P
20:11:35  <TheDude> we try to instruct people to ask us first, but we dont have desync errors for a long time, the code is written by people who understand desync problem
20:11:40  <TheDude> I truly am
20:11:51  *** TrueBrain [] has joined #openttd
20:12:06  <TheDude> but I guess you dont get much bug reports that would fall into that category, or do you?
20:12:14  <LordAro> very few
20:12:43  <LordAro> although i do remember at least one that was from your servers
20:13:06  * LordAro sees if he can find it
20:13:20  <planetmaker> Generally. If you play with modified servers: announce them modified
20:13:29  <planetmaker> protocol and versions are for a reason
20:13:42  <planetmaker> provide custom downloads, if you play with custom versions. simple
20:14:09  <planetmaker> and use goal scripts for goals. Provide proper patches for enhancements, then possibilities in future versions increase
20:14:51  <planetmaker> you're basically leaching on others work. And burden them with "fame" for your errors and needless works. While craving for the fame of "nice" servers
20:14:57  <planetmaker> sounds ... not so nice
20:15:11  <TheDude> shame on us
20:16:16  <planetmaker> yeah. Only take. Little get back. From developer's perspective
20:16:33  <planetmaker> that's something I find personally very sad
20:16:46  <TheDude> our code is not convinient in openttd anyway
20:16:51  <TheDude> unless you want mysql in it ;-)
20:17:06  *** Alice3 [] has joined #openttd
20:17:09  <planetmaker> In the mid term it would be *much* more profitable for all, if this were openly handled
20:17:14  <TheDude> and we get back the servers where people can play
20:17:26  <planetmaker> we are. People like you not. That saddens me
20:18:20  <planetmaker> yeah. *you* get. And take. And give? People the idea playing a game they don't actually play
20:18:49  <TheDude> I meant give back
20:19:20  <TheDude> I am sorry it troubles you
20:19:28  <TheDude> but we gave back some code actually
20:19:40  <planetmaker> we give *all* code.
20:19:52  <planetmaker> without conditions and questions asked
20:20:04  <planetmaker> well. without questions asked. Condition is the license
20:20:05  <TheDude> yes, thanks for that
20:21:05  <TheDude> but you had to count with a chance someone will take it and not give it back, and that is us, we joined the dark side of the power :)
20:21:09  <planetmaker> "Oh, I played OpenTTD and I could do X and Y on server Z" - "No, you did not play OpenTTD. You played a hacked, personally modified version..."
20:21:10  <V453000> and you cant give code back because
20:21:14  <planetmaker> You know how often I explain that?
20:21:29  <TheDude> yes, it is hacked
20:21:40  <__ln__> LordAro: how is ls ../*.hpp better than just ../*.hpp?
20:21:50  <samu> there were some desyncs and unexpected packet or invalid packets on my game a few days ago, but then again, I belive it was my internet anyway.
20:22:01  <LordAro> __ln__: don't ask me, i didn't write it :L
20:22:05  <planetmaker> No problem with hacks. But *claim* they're hacks. You go under the pretense of NOT cheating while you heavily do
20:22:26  *** tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
20:22:35  <TheDude> we do not cheat, and on our site is mentioned the servers are heavily patched
20:22:57  <planetmaker> I do not see that when I just launch OpenTTD and join a server
20:23:10  <TheDude> you may had some personal problems with Luukland, but exclude me from that please
20:23:17  <planetmaker> and people don't read. We have different versions for that reason
20:24:15  <TheDude> exactly, most people cant tell the difference anyway
20:24:45  <LordAro> the point is that they can't tell the difference when things go wrong either
20:24:45  <planetmaker> yeah. Forgery
20:24:49  <TheDude> and if they dont like our gameplay, they quit
20:25:20  <planetmaker> and I really wonder: why do you go through these length. To patch. To hack. Each year. And ... not invest that amount of time you spend there to generally improve the game?
20:25:40  * LordAro -> afk
20:25:41  <samu> Luukland uses NewGRF
20:25:43  <LordAro> have fun all
20:25:52  <samu> i don't like NewGRFs anyway
20:25:53  <LordAro> don't get too ragey :)
20:26:10  <planetmaker> I only get sleepy and bored. And no answer
20:27:00  <TheDude> well, there is no answer that would satisfy you anyway
20:27:12  <planetmaker> you never tried
20:27:36  <TheDude> I joined luukland after the patch was there
20:27:54  *** tokai [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20:28:11  <TheDude> why they went to those lengths? well, there was no other way to do city building, which was the main goal, the way they wanted at that time, which is 2009
20:28:15  <TheDude> so they did a patch
20:28:27  <TheDude> with lot of goals and mysql connection
20:28:50  <TheDude> so they could provide some game data to web and for players
20:29:13  <TheDude> patching does not take much time you know, only developping new things does
20:31:43  <planetmaker> so you now told (again) what that patch did (and does?). Why do you still use it while there's a proper interface now, the admin port?
20:32:37  <TheDude> as I also did told, GS and AP, even while it is improving more and more, it is still way behind compared what we have in our patch for years
20:33:10  <samu> GS is goal script?
20:33:14  <TheDude> and even if it wasnt, rewriting it is useless
20:33:24  <planetmaker> "we" -> you part of luukland. Comparison wrong? ;-)
20:33:33  <TheDude> luukland is no more actually
20:33:43  <TheDude> Luuk quited the openttd world
20:33:51  <planetmaker> why is writing it in a framework which is generally supported useless? Every OpenTTD player could potentially profit
20:34:11  <Rubidium> planetmaker: you lose your edge?
20:34:12  <planetmaker> As well as your patch maintenance. Or is the real fear that you would loose part of your perceived "specialness"?
20:34:52  <TheDude> because rewriting is to omuch work, and now we are only two left, too busy for that
20:34:58  <TheDude> we are maunly maintaing it
20:35:08  <samu> Game Script or Goal Script?
20:35:13  <samu> GS?
20:35:35  <TheDude> General Store
20:35:53  <TheDude> why do we not make it public
20:36:08  <planetmaker> "everyone could do it" ;-)
20:36:27  <TheDude> there are some stuff in it, that are indeed not good for making public, like the mysql code, we do not want to show our database, as it is secret community stuff
20:37:44  <TheDude> there is already an interface with AP and GS, running on n-ice and btpro, that is the way to use now
20:37:56  <planetmaker> good one
20:38:33  <planetmaker> or you mean an interface to use the official API for GS and AI?
20:38:44  <planetmaker> interface for API... sounds queer
20:39:59  <samu> hmm a question: is it possible to alter company performance rating score criteria or scale it dependant on map size or Game Script?
20:40:15  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
20:40:35  <planetmaker> make your own GS with your own scores, samu
20:40:49  <samu> so it's possible?!
20:41:44  <samu> change 120 vehicles to get 100 rate points to 240 vehicles to get the same 100 points?
20:43:04  <planetmaker> probably
20:43:36  <samu> ^_^!!! me likes it
20:44:07  <planetmaker> good night
20:44:26  <Ristovski> Good night!
20:46:09  *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@] has joined #openttd
20:48:24  <samu> 256x256 map size would be the baseline
20:49:15  *** X-Frank-X [] has joined #openttd
20:49:32  <samu> 2048x2048 - 64x bigger, woah, 7680 vehicles to get 100 points :o
20:50:14  <frosch123> maybe we get intel or amd sponsoring then
20:50:42  <V453000> lol
20:51:33  *** X-Frank-X is now known as Frank|BTPro
20:54:12  <samu> wasn't that aware how big that map size is
20:55:03  <V453000> it only shows how pointless it is to play more than 1k*512
20:55:20  <V453000> cause you cant really ever fill it
20:56:30  <Rubidium> <- might be an interesting talk, but I doubt I'll make it on time
20:57:54  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
20:58:08  <frosch123> didn't that guy mailed us some years ago?
20:58:19  <Rubidium> yup
20:59:14  *** ZxBiohazardZx [] has joined #openttd
21:01:19  <frosch123> their personal includes a lot of "lead"
21:02:06  <Rubidium> yeah, it's a scam ;)
21:02:07  <frosch123>
21:02:15  <Rubidium> they're just researching lead
21:02:23  <Rubidium> (Pb)
21:02:40  <frosch123> :)
21:03:33  <Rubidium> that reminds me of
21:03:38  <samu> oops, autorenew conflicting with refit orders hummph:
21:03:57  <samu> can't go away from game or risk stopped ships
21:04:38  *** TheDude [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:05:13  <samu> woah there's ppl on my game, that's a miracle, lol
21:06:17  <samu> when I say max clients: 4, does it could me as client?
21:06:25  <samu> count*
21:15:54  <Rubidium> I reckon is does
21:16:26  *** ZxBiohazardZx [] has quit [Quit: Few women admit their age.  Few men act theirs.]
21:18:28  *** gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
21:19:02  *** Chrill [] has joined #openttd
21:20:20  *** tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o]
21:20:38  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
21:20:41  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
21:21:33  <samu> just remembered some idea I had while playing a month ago
21:21:41  <samu> auto-loan
21:21:43  <samu> lol
21:25:51  <samu> it would display my current cash based on a fake max loan
21:26:08  <samu> while my real loan would be auto-adjusted
21:27:16  <samu> bad idea for competitive servers though
21:28:11  *** fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
21:29:32  *** Frank|BTPro [] has quit []
21:30:12  <samu> It would adjust automaticaly depending how I'd spend my money
21:30:56  <samu> no longer displaying not enough cash errors, unless I was indeed already max loaning
21:40:48  <frosch123> night
21:40:51  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:56:35  *** LadyHawk [] has quit [Quit: Boldly going forward coz we can't find reverse!]
21:58:04  <samu> can i prevent a town from building on slopes, but not players?
21:58:29  <samu> all towns in fact
21:59:09  <V453000> I would suggest to prevent towns from building roads in general
22:00:06  *** DDR [] has joined #openttd
22:00:22  <samu> that's a dilema, I want them to expand freely except building on slopes, at least coast slopes, they block ships
22:00:32  <samu> even with buildings
22:00:55  <V453000> why do you want towns to expand freely
22:01:04  <V453000> if people use them, they need to care for them anyway, so they need to build roads
22:01:10  <V453000> if nobody needs them, they dont obstacle
22:01:13  <V453000> win-win
22:01:37  <V453000> plus if people actually care for them, they probably want a specific road layout to their desire, not some random or grid one as defined by the game
22:04:48  <LordAro> night all
22:05:13  *** LordAro [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
22:09:24  <Eddi|zuHause> if you disable town roads, you have to pay maintenance
22:13:02  <V453000> lol
22:19:43  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:27:09  *** permagreen [~donovan@] has quit [Quit: USER DEAD IMMINENT]
22:28:26  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
22:29:36  *** Ristovski [~rafael@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:49:09  *** sla_ro|master [] has quit []
22:51:47  *** Alice3 [] has quit []
22:59:21  <samu> lol, why do I laugh at this...
23:03:16  <samu>
23:20:57  <Wolf01> 'night all
23:21:06  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:22:43  *** samu [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
23:29:20  *** samu [] has joined #openttd
23:30:47  <samu> oops, I triggered a crash
23:32:43  <samu> an evil one, it screws my desktop composition
23:34:06  <samu> I can reproduce it too, well, reporting it
23:34:09  <samu> brb
23:38:10  *** Djohaal_ [~Djohaal@] has joined #openttd
23:40:50  <samu>
23:41:12  <samu>
23:47:59  *** Elukka [] has quit []
23:50:39  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk