Log for #openttd on 23rd June 2013:
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06:07:38  <andythenorth> this FIRS economy I'm creating has 3 kinds of port
06:08:02  <andythenorth> is it lame to call them 'Port (type 1)', 'Port (type 2)' etc?
06:12:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
06:12:22  <andythenorth> +1
06:12:30  <andythenorth> suggestions?
06:12:40  <Supercheese_> "Domestic port" "International port"?
06:12:44  <Eddi|zuHause> no :)
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06:13:47  <V453000> lunar port
06:13:55  <andythenorth> the cargos received are: Diamonds, Iron Ore, Rubber, Coffee, Oil, Plant Fibres (Cotton), Wood, Fruit
06:14:39  <andythenorth> Wood, Iron Ore, Oil = Bulk Terminal?
06:17:17  <Supercheese> Classification by cargo types like that would probably be good
06:17:29  <Supercheese> easy to tell, "oh, this port produces stuff needed by X industries"
06:17:37  <Supercheese> whereas other ports for Y industry
06:17:39  <Supercheese> etc.
06:18:16  <andythenorth> hmm, so I could classify by the produced cargo
06:19:42  <andythenorth> or I could just have one port, and randomise between the import / export cargos
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06:19:50  <peter1138> Diamonds, Iron Ore, Redstone, Cocoa Beans...
06:20:14  <andythenorth> redstone?
06:20:36  <andythenorth> minecraft?
06:20:55  <andythenorth> oic
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06:34:08  <andythen_> Hmm
06:34:30  <andythen_> Diamonds probably don't go to a big seaport eh?
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06:34:46  <Supercheese> Flown out at an airport, perhaps
06:35:14  <Supercheese> Hmm, you can't give a land-based industry the oilrig helipad, can you?
06:35:38  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you can
06:35:51  <andythen_> There are side effects
06:36:28  <Eddi|zuHause> you can't separate ship and heliport
06:38:01  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, gtg
06:38:41  <andythen_> Bye
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07:06:15  <andythen_> Randomising the accepted/produced cargos at a port industry would be annoying?
07:06:38  <andythen_> (At build time)
07:06:41  <peter1138> At creation, no, at runtime, yes.
07:08:14  <andythen_> I'd need to arse about making sure that every cargo is accepted or produced at least once
07:08:52  <andythen_> Or make ports cheap to fund :p
07:08:55  <andythen_> Hmm
07:09:06  <andythen_> Is there a cb for industry fund cost?
07:13:13  <andythen_> Can't see one
07:13:28  <andythen_> Might be useful
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08:16:15  <andythen_> Hmm
08:16:25  <andythen_> Smuggling Port?
08:19:18  <Supercheese> Arrr
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08:28:59  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25434 /trunk/src (5 files) (2013-06-23 08:28:53 UTC)
08:29:00  <DorpsGek> -Fix: reroute cargo staged for unloading if a link breaks
08:29:34  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25435 /trunk/src (3 files) (2013-06-23 08:29:28 UTC)
08:29:35  <DorpsGek> -Fix: reroute cargo in vehicles if station is deleted
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08:53:53  <andythen_> Hmm
08:54:17  <andythen_> 'Trading Post'?
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08:56:41  <planetmaker> interesting name
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08:56:57  <planetmaker> for raw materials like rubber, fur, coffee or so
08:57:25  <andythen_> Exactly my intention
08:57:43  <andythen_> Does it fit the game world though?
08:58:05  <planetmaker> it somehow reminds me of like Dutch East India Company and alike
08:58:08  <planetmaker> why not
08:58:29  <andythen_> I might still have it build by water?
08:58:49  <planetmaker> it's a port. So I'll not be concerned about vicinity to water ;-)
08:59:37  <andythen_> Hmm
08:59:39  <andythen_> Fur
08:59:48  <planetmaker> industry: hunter's hut
08:59:57  <planetmaker> like the logging hut which exists even in TTD
09:00:12  * andythen_ considers a 'yukon' economy
09:00:13  <planetmaker> so... definitely fits :-)
09:00:35  <Zuu> Hunter's hut sounds like Settlers or Widelands :-)
09:00:41  <planetmaker> can we sell bear hides before they're hunted?
09:00:57  <planetmaker> it does indeed :-)
09:01:07  <planetmaker> But... I think it's a theme which *can* work
09:01:18  <andythen_> :)
09:01:28  <Zuu> Better than the weather theme someone tried
09:01:37  <planetmaker> weather theme?
09:01:42  <andythen_> ?
09:01:58  <Zuu> Yeah, you transported sun or rain or so...
09:02:04  <planetmaker> like "cargo: two drops of rain" "three ounces of snow"
09:02:09  <planetmaker> lol. Never heard of it
09:02:12  <andythen_> Was it v? :p
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09:02:21  <Zuu> I don't think it was V.
09:02:23  <planetmaker> sounds like it, indeed :-)
09:02:36  <andythen_> Cargo: lol
09:02:54  <planetmaker> it might fit toyland, though :-)
09:03:20  <planetmaker> cargo: happy clown. sad clown
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09:04:56  <planetmaker> andythen_, it would be an economy suitable for early modern times (like 1600-1920 or so)
09:05:29  <planetmaker> the sad thing about that is: that economy misses houses and vehicles as well :-P
09:06:11  <planetmaker> well. Maybe the sailing ships will fit well
09:07:36  <Zuu> Ah.. it was not for OpenTTD but for Simutrans:
09:07:53  <planetmaker> ah
09:08:56  <planetmaker> hm...  I wonder whether graphics can be reused for a martian them from that
09:09:44  <andythen_>
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09:20:18  <andythen_> Bbl
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12:17:48  <Alberth> hi hi
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12:20:51  <andythenorth> o/
12:23:14  <Alberth> seems pretty quiet around here
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12:37:02  <Vinnie_nl> Hello people, this one is for the ones with some expirience with NoGo.
12:37:26  <Vinnie_nl> basicly defines windows you can highlight, wich i got to work
12:37:52  <Vinnie_nl> But is it possible to highlight a tile on the map itself say coordinate x 100 y 100 ?
12:38:23  <Vinnie_nl> I know it can not be found in the perviously mentioned website, but a general hint where to look is appriciated
12:38:24  <andythenorth> not afaik
12:38:29  <andythenorth> you might be able to build a sign?
12:38:33  <andythenorth> Zuu: ^ ?
12:38:39  <Vinnie_nl> I am able to do that with GS
12:40:03  <Zuu> Vinnie_nl: You can put a sign on a tile as andythenorth said
12:40:14  <Vinnie_nl> oke
12:40:34  <Vinnie_nl> ty
12:40:52  <Zuu> Another solution, if you create a (GS)StoryPage with information to the player, you can add a tile reference element that a player can click on to view that tile.
12:41:15  <Vinnie_nl> yes im playing with your storybook page
12:41:22  <Vinnie_nl> aa-on
12:41:23  <Zuu> A Ctrl+click on the reference opens a viewport window.
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12:42:31  <Vinnie_nl> but with my no programming skills it took me 4 hours to make 2 NoGo actions work inside your example script
12:42:48  <Alberth> the next 2 will be quicker :)
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12:43:29  <Zuu> Even with programming experience it has taken me 2-3 weekends to create my first native Android application that is not plainly useless :-)
12:45:56  <Vinnie_nl> now that you are here. In your script you use function MainClass::Run() Does it actually do something or is it just to seperate blocks of code?
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12:47:46  <Zuu> In MinimalGS?
12:48:46  <Vinnie_nl> yes
12:49:00  <Zuu> I see no Run() in main.nut
12:49:54  <Zuu> Maybe you mean Start() ?
12:50:53  <Zuu> or DoTest() ?
12:51:05  <Vinnie_nl> im sory i mean the script on this page:
12:51:19  <Vinnie_nl> it has a link to example goal script
12:51:39  <Vinnie_nl> there the towerst 3 lines say function MainClass::Run()
12:52:37  <Zuu> Its DoTest from MinimalGS that has been renamed to 'Run'. However, that script only do initialization stuff. It never do anything in the main loop.
12:53:23  <Zuu> The idea was that below HandleEvents() in the main loop you can call one or more methods that contain blocks of code to run every n days.
12:53:40  <Zuu> Usually n is a longer period than 5 days as in this script.
12:54:06  <Zuu> You can also check NoCarGoal for a script that make use of the GSStoryBook and is a more real example.
12:54:19  <Vinnie_nl> so basicly function function bundels a group of code you can loop if one wants to?
12:54:48  <Zuu> yes
12:55:11  <Zuu> A function contain code that will be executed when you call that function.
12:55:39  <Zuu> So you could place your GS logic in Run() and it will be executed at each loop without cluttering the loop logic in Start().
12:55:57  <Vinnie_nl> thank you
12:56:12  <Zuu> Usually there is several nested calls to sub functions which all make up the logic.
12:56:48  <Zuu> It alows also to reuse code by calling a method rather than copy&paste the code.
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12:58:33  <Zuu> Vinnie_nl: out of interest, are you aiming to create somtheng specific or just playing around?
12:58:50  <Vinnie_nl> a tutorial on rail buidling
12:58:56  <Vinnie_nl> with some interaction
12:59:02  <Zuu> Sounds interesting
12:59:56  <Vinnie_nl> well its just try and error for now
13:00:00  <planetmaker> isn't there a tutorial script already? You might want to add a chapter on rail building there :-)
13:00:13  <Zuu> If you want to link the tutorial to a scenario, you can look at the Beginner Tutorial. If you still don't see how to get it to work you are welcome to ask me.
13:00:54  <Zuu> planetmaker: The Beginner Tutorial needs some work to get ported to GSStoryPage which may happen later this year.
13:01:03  <Vinnie_nl> Yeah im learning code from it
13:01:31  <planetmaker> yes, I assume(d) so much, Zuu :-) It definitely will profit from that addition of yours
13:02:10  <Zuu> If Vinnie_nl wants to try to create something standalone to get rid of being tied to my way of organizing it, I see no problem of having a separate rail tutorial.
13:03:46  <Zuu> Though I will also accept a contribution of a rail chatpter to that tutorial. But my guess is that right now it may be easier for Vinnie_nl to try things out and figure out how things work. :-)
13:05:20  <planetmaker> yes. For figuring out, that surely is easier
13:06:56  <Terkhen> hello
13:08:19  <Zuu> planetmaker: The remake to GSStoryPage will require quite some modification to how each chapter is declared. Most dialogs do no longer wait for the user to click continue, instead the tutorial waits for some action to be performed. However, the dialogs which wait for click on continue will need to change in the Story book so that all pages up to next page that wait for an user action are added in sequence. The user will then use the next button t
13:08:19  <Zuu> o get forward and at the last page see what it has to do next. This may seem simple. However it means that GUI highlights can not be triggered when the user skip to the last page, instead they have to be added at the start of a multi-page text sequence.
13:08:47  <Zuu> Though, one solution to this is to add an GS event for when the user switch page in single player.
13:11:44  <Zuu> The GS scripted movement of view upon clicking on continue can be replaced by using the tile reference page element. So that can be solved, but also means that it will be hard to create a tutorial that is compatible to both 1.3 and 1.4.
13:12:31  <Zuu> If you only use one text page element at each page it is possible to fallback to the old dialog for 1.3 users, but if you use the full potential of the GSStoryPage, falling back is hard.
13:12:37  <planetmaker> really... don't worry about backward compatibility with the tutorial
13:12:52  <Zuu> Indeed that is my plan too.
13:13:03  <Zuu> Which is why it is no hurry to do the conversion.
13:15:17  <planetmaker> I wonder though whether we want to ship a tutorial once it is really a decent introduction - and maybe even add a button in main menu or game creation to load it instead of new map
13:15:29  <planetmaker> alas,,, that's talk of the future
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14:10:27  <Vinnie_nl> does anyone know a game script that uses the GSCompanyMode command. I need an example because my instance does not work
14:10:51  <Vinnie_nl> basicly the goal script builds something
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14:19:40  <frosch123> the split scenario does that
14:20:55  <Vinnie_nl> thank you
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14:36:50  <Vinnie_nl> Nice it works like a boss
14:50:34  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean it doesn't actually do anything, but tells everyone else what they should do?
14:52:23  <Vinnie_nl> No in example given above the GS takes over AI and raises land
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15:02:58  <Zuu> Vinnie_nl: Mind that the GS is not able to perform every action that an AI can do. Some actions are available but not all. The reason for this is I think is that the GS is not ment as a helper AI for players.
15:03:39  <Vinnie_nl> well im partly on route to building a station, seems to be doing well so far
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15:06:04  <petanek> Hi, does anybody have openttd server on linux without X11? (UBUNTU SERVER)
15:06:27  <planetmaker> you need to compile that yourself. ./configure --enable-dedicated
15:06:53  <planetmaker> we don't provide specific server binaries w/o X11 support
15:07:28  <planetmaker> but to answer your question: "yes"
15:08:01  <petanek> ok, it is better than only yes :-)
15:08:06  <petanek> I'll try it
15:08:35  <planetmaker> petanek, make sure to compile it from an svn checkout
15:09:37  <petanek> Ok. Why not the source from
15:10:11  <planetmaker> the subversion checkout is also hosted on ;-)
15:10:22  <planetmaker> -checkout
15:10:50  <petanek> ok, I'll download it by svn
15:11:08  <planetmaker> petanek, less headache with updating. Much less potential for trouble with tempered sources, by accident or whatever
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15:14:11  <Rubidium> planetmaker: but somewhat more likely if one doesn't know how to get the right tag from subversion to do the right thing
15:14:39  <Rubidium> s/more/less/
15:14:51  <planetmaker> yes...
15:15:28  <planetmaker> svn co svn://
15:16:07  <planetmaker> I believe though that people using a headless server have the ability to do so :-)
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15:18:30  <petanek> I'm compiling it now,...
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15:20:29  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25436 /trunk (10 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-23 15:20:23 UTC)
15:20:30  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: split the font detection code out of the font caching code
15:20:44  <petanek> but I used
15:21:38  <planetmaker> :-) then you'll compile openttd head. Which you likely don't want as players need an exactly identical version
15:22:44  <planetmaker> but you can now exercise updating: svn switch svn:// - unless of course you do want some nightly version.
15:23:28  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25437 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2013-06-23 15:23:22 UTC)
15:23:29  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: rework the FreeTypeSettings structure to make it better grouped
15:24:09  <petanek> planetmaker: OK, I caceled it and now I'm compiling 1.3.1
15:24:22  <petanek> planetmaker: I used ./configure --enable-dedicated --without-zlib --without-lzma --without-liblzo2
15:24:34  <planetmaker> uh... yes
15:24:42  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25438 /trunk/src (3 files) (2013-06-23 15:24:36 UTC)
15:24:43  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: introduce classes for the FontCache
15:24:54  <planetmaker> not sure whether you'll be happy without all those compression libs
15:25:11  <planetmaker> it affects savegame size which you'll have to download when connecting
15:25:24  <planetmaker> uncompressed they'll be.... large
15:25:41  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25439 trunk/src/fontcache.cpp (2013-06-23 15:25:35 UTC)
15:25:42  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: move the glyph to sprite ID mapping into the SpriteFontCache
15:28:00  <planetmaker> at least liblzma should be added for greater joy, petanek
15:28:01  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25440 trunk/src/fontdetection.cpp (2013-06-23 15:27:55 UTC)
15:28:02  <DorpsGek> -Fix: MSVC compilation error
15:28:35  <planetmaker> the others are not needed, if you don't want to load old savegames or scenarios
15:29:17  <planetmaker> old as in older than OpenTTD 1.0.5 or around 2-3 years
15:29:26  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25441 trunk/src/fontcache.cpp (2013-06-23 15:29:20 UTC)
15:29:27  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: move the freetype font allocation into the FreeTypeFontCache
15:32:15  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25442 /trunk/src (4 files) (2013-06-23 15:32:09 UTC)
15:32:16  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: move height and ascender information into the FontCache instances
15:33:50  <petanek> planetmaker: Now I'm trying to install those libaries. Do you have a list what all I need? :-)
15:35:12  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25443 trunk/src/fontcache.cpp (2013-06-23 15:35:06 UTC)
15:35:13  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: move the glyph to sprite cache into the FreeTypeFontCache instance
15:35:44  <planetmaker> wiki knows it in its development pages, I don't know by heart
15:36:03  <planetmaker>
15:36:35  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25444 trunk/src/fontcache.cpp (2013-06-23 15:36:29 UTC)
15:36:36  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: move sprite font code together with the other sprite font code
15:37:19  <petanek> oh, how easy :-)
15:37:24  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25445 /trunk/src (fontcache.cpp fontcache.h) (2013-06-23 15:37:18 UTC)
15:37:25  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: simplify the font loading
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15:38:58  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25446 trunk/src/fontcache.cpp (2013-06-23 15:38:51 UTC)
15:38:59  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: call sprite fontcache code from freetype font cache in case a sprite must be shown
15:41:42  <Eddi|zuHause> SPAM!
15:42:03  <Eddi|zuHause> and it doesn't even end with "-Feature:"
15:43:15  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone ever thought it funny that english (and french) know things "by heart" whereas german knows things "by head"?
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15:43:40  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: there's still more to come, but probably not today
15:43:45  <petanek> planetmaker: OK, Now it works correctly.
15:43:54  <Rubidium> ... and sadly it'd end with a "-Fix: "
15:43:55  <petanek> planetmaker: Thanks for yor help
15:45:20  <planetmaker> you're welcome. Happy that it works :-) Enjoy it :-)
15:46:19  <planetmaker> note, that also your headless server will need a base graphics set. As they contain more than just graphics.
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15:56:05  <petanek> planetmaker: I'm just doing that. Readme.txt 4.1 :-)
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15:56:17  <planetmaker> ^^ kudos
15:56:42  <planetmaker> might be a first... that s/o points out the readme with that section. It's usually reverse :-)
15:57:02  <LordAro> wow :)
15:57:43  <planetmaker> it proves the point: some people actually *do* read the readme :-)
15:57:56  <petanek> not offten :-)
16:11:25  <andythenorth> those big ships are silly
16:11:31  <andythenorth> 10m liter capacity
16:11:47  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they are :p
16:13:15  <andythenorth> and 10m liters of goods will be produced by the refinery :P
16:13:34  <andythenorth> if goods is enumerated in liters :P
16:13:49  <planetmaker> 10ml? Thus about the quantity which fills my pen?
16:14:29  <andythenorth> :)
16:14:33  <Eddi|zuHause> 10M liters are 10k goods
16:14:49  <Eddi|zuHause> so if you have a really busy factory, you could fill 2 ships a month
16:17:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess there is some use if you have feeder systems, but there's no way you can ever get one oil rig that high
16:18:33  <petanek> planetmaker: OK, It works. :-)
16:18:56  <planetmaker> :-)
16:19:25  <planetmaker> does it have a name and is advertised?
16:19:52  <planetmaker>
16:20:01  <petanek> I don't know, How can I find it out?
16:20:40  <planetmaker> openttd.cfg has settings for that...
16:20:42  <planetmaker> server_advertise = true
16:21:03  <planetmaker> lan_internet = 1
16:21:05  <Eddi|zuHause> oh... BER now gets 6-8 flights per day (starting end of the year)
16:24:18  <petanek> planetmaker: I'll try to find out how to use it and than I'll advertise it.
16:24:46  <petanek> several uncontroled restarts aren't good for players
16:24:50  <planetmaker> quit openttd. edit cfg. restart openttd
16:25:04  <planetmaker> otherwise changes to cfg don't take effect
16:25:20  <planetmaker> openttd rewrites cfg on exit, thus shutdown before editing
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16:27:29  <petanek> I'm going to read thus
16:27:49  <petanek> than I advertised it
16:28:02  <planetmaker> that page needs extending and maintenance I think
16:28:25  <andythenorth> herp
16:28:40  <andythenorth> shame the cargo ID bitmask isn't bigger than 32
16:28:57  <planetmaker> yes... cargo pools :D
16:29:42  <andythenorth> I don't actually want >32 cargos in game
16:29:49  <Eddi|zuHause> don't! you just make people autogenerate 1000 cargos :p
16:29:49  <andythenorth> it just makes my docs untidy :P
16:30:08  <andythenorth> now I have more than one cargo on certain IDs
16:30:12  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes... I know who would do that :D *lalalala*
16:30:17  <Eddi|zuHause> one cargo type per vehicle type :p
16:31:11  <andythenorth> autogenerating :P
16:31:26  <andythenorth> I am removing the web-based content management system crap from some of my grfs
16:31:40  <andythenorth> it's too frameworky and makes it easy to not care about each vehicle
16:31:47  <planetmaker> hm? You remove the docs from FIRS?
16:31:51  <andythenorth> nope
16:31:54  <andythenorth> docs = win
16:31:58  <planetmaker> ^ +1
16:32:31  <andythenorth> I mean this stuff
16:32:44  <andythenorth> you're not allowed into the backend of that, but there's a database and admin system
16:32:55  <andythenorth> each ship is an object in the CMS
16:33:03  <andythenorth> but it's all a bit meh
16:33:08  <planetmaker> and the grf is generated from that?
16:34:19  <andythenorth> yes
16:34:30  <andythenorth> it needs lots of frameworky stuff
16:35:13  <andythenorth> and any non-standard ship needs extra special-case handling
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16:35:33  <andythenorth> it *is* really quick to add/change/delete properties on every ship
16:35:40  <andythenorth> and copy-paste-edit
16:35:56  <andythenorth> but I much prefer how FIRS is done, with craploads of indiviudal python files
16:36:28  <andythenorth> adding a property to all industries in FIRS means 55x copy and paste, but somehow that's easier
16:36:38  <planetmaker> :-)
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16:37:03  <andythenorth> I'm probably going to resurrect a truck set some time in the future
16:37:23  <andythenorth> small, more hand-coded than BANDIT, but with procedural graphics
16:37:58  * andythenorth had a break and is in the mood for OTTD again, but is short of time :P
16:38:18  <planetmaker> :-) I call that a known problem
16:38:31  <planetmaker> you should have time on 27/28 July :-P
16:38:40  <planetmaker> lalala ;-)
16:44:03  <andythenorth> Sugar or Refined Sugar?
16:44:11  <planetmaker> sugar
16:44:11  <andythenorth> in this case it *is* refined sugar
16:44:17  <andythenorth> but the game cargo is Sugar
16:44:24  <andythenorth> keep it the same I reckon
16:44:32  <Rubidium> andythenorth: just sugar
16:44:47  <Rubidium> mostly because they make unrefined sugar from refined sugar by adding some colouring
16:44:48  <planetmaker> it maybe technically "refined sugar". But nevertheless... who calls it "refined sugar" when you put it in your cake or coffee?
16:45:46  <andythenorth> +1
16:50:06  <Zuu> And if you pick up a sugar beat, then it is unrefined?
16:54:04  <peter1138> anyone ported ottd to lua?
16:54:26  <Zuu> Why would anyone do that?
17:00:37  <planetmaker> people ported it to java. same reasons probably :D
17:00:38  <Alberth> to prove you can program everything in tables?
17:04:46  <planetmaker> ... they don't even call it OpenTTD. Meh.
17:05:29  <Zuu> planetmaker: Wasn't that those who translated the byte code to javascript?
17:05:45  <TinoDidriksen> They do write "Powered by emscripten and openttd"
17:05:45  <Zuu> Eg. not a rewrite to Java.
17:06:22  <planetmaker> yes. and yes
17:14:40  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25447 trunk/src/fontdetection.cpp (2013-06-23 17:14:34 UTC)
17:14:41  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25437): [OSX] Compilation was broken
17:16:38  <grep> is OpenTTD with open sounds and graphics using any kind of midi player?
17:16:53  <planetmaker> yes
17:17:09  <grep> I am having problems compiling extmidi.cpp and I'm thinking of dropping support for it in my build
17:17:10  <planetmaker> also with closed sounds and graphics
17:17:37  <grep> the problem is that kill() is not defined correctly
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17:28:27  <Alberth> looks like kill(2) to me :)
17:31:08  <grep> not in my toolchain
17:34:51  <Eddi|zuHause> midi is used for music, the sounds (vehicles, industries, etc.) will still work
17:36:59  <Eddi|zuHause> what platform are you trying to compile for again?
17:41:02  <grep> ps3
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17:41:15  <grep> not linux, gameos
17:41:39  <andythenorth> is Coffee just Fruit really?
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17:45:20  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25448 trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt (2013-06-23 17:45:14 UTC)
17:45:21  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:22  <DorpsGek> slovak - 4 changes by Milsa
17:47:50  <andythenorth> hmm
17:47:54  <andythenorth> coffee comes in bags
17:47:58  <andythenorth> what's the correct cargo unit?
17:48:32  <Zuu> tonnes?
17:48:44  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25449 trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt (2013-06-23 17:48:39 UTC)
17:48:45  <DorpsGek> -Fix: WT3 validation error
17:50:24  <andythenorth> hmm
17:50:44  <andythenorth> "bags" is used by mail, but I can't see a string code specifically for it
17:50:48  <andythenorth> (NML docs)
17:50:52  <andythenorth>
17:52:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it is in the cargo strings "bags of mail" or "crates of goods", there is no individual string for "bags" or "crates"
17:54:55  <frosch123> andythenorth:
17:55:16  <andythenorth> thanks
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17:55:56  <andythenorth> TTD_STR_BAGS
17:55:58  <andythenorth> found it
17:56:31  <planetmaker> andythenorth, is coffee in sacks or in bags?
17:56:38  <andythenorth> I wonder
17:56:50  <planetmaker> it's an honest language question, I've really no clue
17:56:53  <andythenorth> also the TTD_STR_BAGS won't do what I thought it did
17:56:56  <andythenorth> planetmaker: me neither
17:57:08  <planetmaker> I know what is in German, but... :-)
17:57:08  <andythenorth>
17:57:09  <andythenorth> brb
17:57:17  <andythenorth> jute bags?
17:58:00  <planetmaker> so it's bags
17:58:18  <planetmaker> so German "Sack" corresponds to English "bag"
18:02:04  <frosch123> yeah, that's what makes toyland cargos so awesome, if you dump 600 bags of sweet into a 500 habitant towns each month
18:02:11  <Eddi|zuHause> "The head of the Finnish Security Intelligence Service (Supo) has told the business daily TalouselÀmÀ that his organization wants increased funding and expanded powers to carry out surveillance of internet traffic." --- because if there's anything the world needs, it's more internet surveillance
18:03:20  <andythenorth> I need a make target that ignores the python step
18:03:24  <andythenorth> (FIRS)
18:03:47  <Eddi|zuHause> if in doubt, just comment it out
18:04:00  <andythenorth> point
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18:09:58  <andythenorth> biab
18:09:59  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
18:20:24  <Eddi|zuHause> bab
18:20:38  <Eddi|zuHause> (bring a beer :p')
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18:31:47  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: it needs equality, if the finnish powers can spy on our traffic, then we should as well!
18:31:52  <SpComb> err, swedish
18:32:08  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25450 /trunk/src (fontdetection.cpp fontdetection.h) (2013-06-23 18:32:02 UTC)
18:32:09  <DorpsGek> -Fix: compilation without freetype
18:32:36  <SpComb> (most .fi traffic transits .se and they're known to do surveilliance as well)
18:36:24  <frosch123> i guess .fi just prefers .se surveillance over .ru
18:39:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i don' think the problem would be solved by putting a sea cable to .de :p
18:39:46  <Eddi|zuHause> +t
18:40:08  <frosch123> yeah, we need point-to-point connections to everyone
18:41:33  <frosch123> that should also solve any bandwidth issues there are
18:42:02  <Rubidium> why don't you just FedEx your internet traffic?
18:42:48  <frosch123> the daylength factor is too big with that
18:43:26  <peter1138> Or use this stuff call "encryption"
18:43:35  <Eddi|zuHause> and you think they wouldn't open a package full of disks?
18:43:47  <frosch123> esp. the official german style of encryption
18:44:16  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean the one where the parliament issues a law "this is now considered secure"?
18:44:30  <peter1138> Uh...
18:44:35  <frosch123> send data encrypted to government server, let it scan the content for viruses, and reencrypt for the delivery
18:44:44  <peter1138> Riiight
18:45:19  <SpComb> skype is also encrypted
18:45:33  <peter1138> Skype also has backdoors
18:45:52  <frosch123> SpComb: end-to-end or end-via-middle-to-end ?
18:46:13  <SpComb> but it's encrypted!
18:48:12  <peter1138> Nobody really cares though
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18:48:33  <peter1138> Pretty much nobody is using s/mime or pgp for emails...
18:48:40  <frosch123> my best friend invented a secure encryption at age of 9
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18:49:13  <SpComb> SMTP does SSL, but it's not really very robust
18:49:17  <frosch123> it consisted of writing down the text is a cursive font, and then decorating the letters with additional circles and lines until you could not read it anymore
18:49:29  <peter1138> that's mostly to protect login credentials
18:49:39  <frosch123> unfortunately he had no method to decrypt it again
18:49:44  <peter1138> there's no way to ensure end-to-end security
18:50:01  <peter1138> frosch123, so it was more like a hash? :D
18:50:53  <frosch123> hmm, i think it was not deterministic
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18:56:40  <Eddi|zuHause> that depends on if you could reproduce the random seed :p
18:57:37  <planetmaker> sounds like a classical trap-door function ;-)
18:58:22  <Eddi|zuHause> also, i think the "bank credentials letters" are "encrypted" with a similar method (except it's eeveral sheets of paper so you can "decrypt" it at home)
18:59:27  <SpComb> the best parts are the ones where they send your login and password in two separate emails for security reasons
18:59:48  <planetmaker> they send that via snail-mail
18:59:54  <planetmaker> at least mine
19:00:11  <SpComb> (not banks, at least)
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19:00:37  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but the snail-mail contains additional sheets of paper with random numbers printed across them
19:00:45  <Eddi|zuHause> so you can't see through the letter
19:00:48  <planetmaker> yes
19:01:11  <Eddi|zuHause> that is similar to the "encryption" that frosch123 mentioned
19:01:43  <SpComb> in a nondescript hand-addressed envelope
19:03:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so :p
19:04:23  <SpComb> mine was
19:04:36  <SpComb> they typo'd the postcode and it took ages for it to arrive
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19:22:11  <andythenorth> hmm
19:22:24  <andythenorth> I should just auto-generate the cargo numeric ids per economy
19:22:32  <andythenorth> no reason to keep them the same :o
19:31:05  <frosch123> yeah, break goal scripts which are doing it wrong :p
19:31:57  <andythenorth> meh
19:31:59  <andythenorth> goal scripts :P
19:32:03  <andythenorth> who writes those anyway?
19:32:07  * andythenorth should learn
19:32:42  <frosch123> they can use cargo labels, but some think they can use cargo slots
19:33:42  <frosch123> unfortunately cargo slots are the only option to configure cargos for gs from the main menu
19:33:43  <Zuu> also the cargo labels are really there for easier debugging
19:34:10  <frosch123> though i guess the gs could also ask some questions after game start, to figure out stuff
19:34:22  <Zuu> That is possible for a GS to do
19:34:48  <frosch123> they can only put a few buttons though, nothing fancy to pick a cargo type :p
19:34:50  <Zuu> A GS can ask any company a question with up to 3 answer options. :-)
19:34:52  <frosch123> unless you do it via signs or so
19:35:20  <frosch123> Zuu: press "ok" to pick coal, press "yes" to pick iron ore, press "cancel" to pick fruit? :p
19:35:23  <Zuu> The tutorial AI uses sign buttons :-)
19:35:49  <andythenorth> maybe GS needs extending? o_O
19:35:53  <Zuu> frosch123: Or a wizard selectior with OK, Next, Prev buttons
19:37:16  <Zuu> andythenorth: I try my best (StoryBook, goal progress, fix of execution of DoCommands in world gen, implementing debug facilities for GSes .. :-)   )
19:37:33  <andythenorth> :)
19:37:43  <andythenorth> one day we'll figure out industry-GS interaction :P
19:37:54  <Zuu> hehe, yeah one day...
19:45:12  * andythenorth has ideas for a silly economy
19:45:16  <andythenorth> but another time
19:46:01  <Zuu> night
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19:47:39  <Eddi|zuHause> a toyland-kind of silly economy?
19:47:51  <Eddi|zuHause> or a NUTS compatible one? :p
19:48:00  <andythenorth> an 'urban' economy
19:48:07  <andythenorth> but focussed on yuppy delights
19:48:13  <andythenorth> so 'coffee' would be a major cargo
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19:54:19  <andythenorth> oops
19:54:23  <andythenorth> crashed ottd :P
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20:00:01  <Eddi|zuHause> 20 different brands of coffee, please
20:00:10  <andythenorth> I should add chocolate
20:00:12  <andythenorth> and tea
20:00:22  <andythenorth> 32 retail cargos
20:00:34  <andythenorth> retail-transport-tycoon
20:02:19  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i should have said 0x20 different brands of coffee :)
20:02:48  <Eddi|zuHause> and each house accepts a random brand :p
20:03:58  <Eddi|zuHause> and coffee mugs are the vehicles :p
20:04:04  <andythenorth> hmm
20:04:12  * andythenorth wonders about a Sushi economy
20:04:17  <andythenorth> with conveyor belts
20:06:29  <andythenorth> herp
20:06:48  <andythenorth> now I have to decide which plantations / farms produce which cargos
20:08:19  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25451 trunk/src/fontcache.cpp (2013-06-23 20:08:13 UTC)
20:08:20  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25445): Ini configuration for medium font was overwritten by front configuration of other sizes.
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20:21:16  <andythenorth> hmm
20:21:24  <andythenorth> the tropic lumber mill is annoying
20:21:32  <andythenorth> which is a shame
20:21:41  <andythenorth> it's a nice idea, but replanting trees is boring
20:22:47  <frosch123> don't the trees actually grow fast enough in rain forest?
20:23:11  <andythenorth> not iirc
20:23:21  <andythenorth> but I haven't played vanilla industries much for years
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20:26:45  <V453000> hint andythenorth there is a setting for tree placer in openttd, it influences that quite a lot ;)
20:27:24  <V453000>
20:27:41  <frosch123> ah, V is back!
20:28:13  <frosch123> V453000:
20:29:05  <frosch123> i would not mind if you also kidnap smatz :p
20:33:15  <planetmaker> frosch123, the tree cutter cuts faster than trees grow
20:33:45  <planetmaker> at least in my experience
20:34:07  <frosch123> well, you need rainforest on all sides of it
20:34:16  <frosch123> you cannot put it on the border of it
20:34:19  <V453000> see the game I posted and experiment :P
20:34:26  <frosch123> and you cannot occupy half of the tiles with stations or tracks  :p
20:34:35  <V453000> also, HOLY SHIT if you managed to contact SmatZ then I would love to kidnap him for sure
20:35:35  <V453000> I actually still have his phone number
20:35:55  <V453000> if it still works
20:37:18  <Vinnie_nl> hello, i have another question about NoGo. does void mean it will lose support in the near future?
20:38:17  <planetmaker> well, please do, V453000
20:38:28  <Rubidium> you mean the void as in "void GSList"? If so, then the void just means that there is no return value
20:38:36  <V453000> I will try to call him tomorrow then
20:38:56  <Vinnie_nl> thanks Rubidium
20:39:02  <V453000> planetmaker: is there a set date yet?
20:39:15  <planetmaker> 27/28 July
20:39:22  <V453000> alright
20:39:27  <planetmaker> basically afternoon+evenening 27
20:39:34  <planetmaker> like last time. you know it :-)
20:40:00  <V453000> sense makes it :P
20:44:07  * andythenorth ponders
20:44:24  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25452 trunk/src/network/network_chat_gui.cpp (2013-06-23 20:44:18 UTC)
20:44:25  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: let the chat messages be drawn like the console messages; drawing complete multiline strings from the bottom, instead of manually breaking the strings and drawing those
20:44:27  <andythenorth> Coffee comes from Fruit Plantation (along with Fruit)?  Apparently realistic
20:44:38  <andythenorth> and the cargos have different destinations in this economy
20:44:47  <andythenorth> or I add Coffee Plantation?
20:46:01  <V453000> :DDDDDDD I just checked how much sense would it make to go by a train to braunschweig
20:46:03  <V453000> 15 hours :D
20:46:06  <V453000> car: 4.5
20:46:12  <Eddi|zuHause> just call it "plantation"?
20:46:25  <Rubidium> V453000: from Prague?
20:46:27  <V453000> some stupid waiting at train stations I suppose
20:46:45  <V453000> no from Liberec / Reichenberg but still :D
20:48:03  <Rubidium> has a 5:54 trip
20:48:13  <Eddi|zuHause> some guy once wrote a story about how in the 1960s he bought a train ticket from zittau to liberec, and they sent him via dresden with the words "when you are back in zittau, you're almost there" :p
20:48:17  <Terkhen> good night
20:48:18  <V453000> yeah
20:49:04  <V453000> XDDDD
20:49:05  <V453000> OF COURSE :D
20:49:07  <Rubidium> no idea what TRILEX is... a bus? or a train?
20:49:12  <V453000> liberec - prague 4.5 hours
20:49:12  <V453000> train
20:49:15  <V453000> welcome to czech
20:49:15  <V453000> :D
20:49:20  <andythenorth> bye Terkhen
20:49:31  <Eddi|zuHause> because there were no direct trains zittau-liberec, only an international train from dresden, and on the czech side the local train went via zittau but wasn'T allowed to pick up passengers there
20:49:32  <V453000> 1 hour by bus or car
20:50:22  <Eddi|zuHause> because the track was from when things were less complicated, and passed the border a few times
20:50:31  <V453000> ha, seemingly best route seems prague - berlin - braunwhatever
20:50:55  <Eddi|zuHause> zittau and liberec are basically in viewing distance
20:51:10  <V453000> that I know eddi I often buy food there :D
20:51:26  <V453000> czech beer is cheaper in de
20:52:06  <frosch123> really? :p
20:53:05  <V453000> hmmm 100 eur for 1 trip sounds kind of steep when compared to car
20:54:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it is
20:55:19  <Eddi|zuHause> especially if you're more than one person in the car, train rides are awfully expensive
20:55:35  <V453000> well even for one person it is almost triple cost
20:55:51  <V453000> and like 50% more travel time
20:56:24  <V453000> more relaxed travel, I admit that ... but idk if I will be relaxed when spending 200 euro on the transport :D
20:56:26  <frosch123> so at least you get more for the money :p
20:56:35  <V453000> I will rather grab a car AND load it with beer
20:56:49  <V453000> plan.
20:57:01  <Eddi|zuHause> wanna pick me up again, now that you know the way? :p
20:57:24  <V453000> Eddi I dont know the way at all right now, but if I get a gps so that I wont get horribly lost, sure
20:57:38  <V453000> I will see and tell :)
20:58:04  <V453000> with SmatZ we managed to find the way last time by a map but I wouldnt put high chances on myself alone :D
20:58:20  <V453000> travel time 40 hours and over paris wouldnt be impossible
20:58:36  <frosch123> you can colllect glx then :)
20:58:46  <Eddi|zuHause> a map that was missing 90% of the roads, because they weren't built yet when the map was printed :p
20:58:58  <V453000> :D pretty much
20:59:11  <V453000> it was slightly confusing, yes
21:02:02  <V453000> anyway, I am beyond busy lately, but I book 27/28 weekend to be free :)
21:02:11  <V453000> I will report back again soon (tm)
21:02:27  <frosch123> :)
21:02:50  <andythenorth> my congo economy will need larger rivers :P
21:03:07  <Supercheese> econgomy?
21:04:38  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: which middle of nowhere was your village called? :D
21:31:59  <andythenorth> bye
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21:33:01  <NGC3982> Evening.
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