Log for #openttd on 14th July 2013:
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01:17:13  <Elukka> huh.
01:17:23  <Elukka> some change in openttd must have broken the ford model t in long vehicles since last time i played
01:17:38  <Elukka> it has 0 kN tractive effort and moves at 2 kph :D
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06:19:48  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: that sounds like you enabled "realistic acceleration for road vehicles"... some sets are known to break with that
06:20:36  <Eddi|zuHause> just disable it and you should be fine
06:23:28  <Elukka> aha, that's probably right
06:23:28  <Elukka> thanks
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06:54:57  <Rubidium> morning
06:58:24  <V453000> mayhem and rail chaos in the early parts of the day to you good sir
06:58:30  <planetmaker> moin
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07:01:05  <V453000> how wrong is it if nuts go purr?
07:04:00  <planetmaker> I'd make it separate sets. Then it's not wrong at all
07:04:40  <planetmaker> with the use of a nice railtype translation table in NUTS you then cater for whatever tracks you have
07:05:16  <planetmaker>
07:05:33  <planetmaker> ^ basically you assign a 'virtual' railtype to your vehicles in NUTS
07:05:50  <planetmaker> And each 'virtual' railtype is one of the actual railtypes listed in that table
07:05:59  <planetmaker> left most being the preferred one
07:06:25  <V453000> I am using it as a new newGRF :)
07:06:34  <planetmaker> hm?
07:06:48  <V453000> PURR and NUTS are two
07:06:53  <planetmaker> kk
07:07:01  <V453000> it all works now I am just finishing drawing :)
07:07:05  <planetmaker> sweet
07:07:16  <Supercheese> meow?
07:07:21  <planetmaker> then take it as suggestion to implement a RTT in NUTS (if you haven't yet)
07:07:35  <V453000> rtt?
07:07:42  <V453000> railtype table
07:07:45  <planetmaker> railtype translation table. The thing I just linked
07:08:30  <V453000> idk what that is for but ... it works with NUTS as intended :D
07:08:44  <V453000> ... I dont think I have a railtypetable like that
07:09:03  <planetmaker> an RTT allows your trainset to use the best railtype - whatever tracks are available
07:10:07  <planetmaker> thus you don't directly hard-code the railtype to a vehicle. But choose the best for your vehicles from the available ones (which still might be 'none')
07:10:09  <V453000> all I did was adding compatible_railtype_list:		["UNIV", "RAIL", "ELRL","UNI1", "UNI2","UNI3","UNI4","UNI5","UNI6","UNI7","UNI8"]; powered_railtype_list: 			["UNIV","UNI1", "UNI2","UNI3","UNI4","UNI5","UNI6","UNI7","UNI8"]; to NUTS railtypes
07:10:43  <planetmaker> this is about primary railtypes of vehicles rather
07:11:01  <planetmaker> not the compatible ones :-)
07:11:13  <V453000> there are no primary vehicles for univ rail? :P
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07:11:29  <planetmaker> that's not the point or problem either
07:11:45  <planetmaker> the problem is that vehicles might simply not be available, if their primary track type is not present
07:11:49  <planetmaker> the RTT solves that
07:12:13  <V453000> how can their railtype not be present? :o
07:12:51  <planetmaker> there's no need for a game to provide RAIL, ELRL, MONO or MGLV tracktypes
07:13:00  <planetmaker> there can be 16 totally different ones
07:13:29  <planetmaker> and if the vehicle newgrf does not provide the tracktype (it shouldn't imho), you look for which you have available
07:13:32  <V453000> hmf
07:13:40  <planetmaker> and give an ordered list of preferred ones
07:13:48  <planetmaker> like you have a highspeed engine
07:13:55  <planetmaker> order of preference then would be like
07:14:32  <planetmaker> SAEA, SAEE, HSTR, DBHE, DBHS, ENHI, ELRL or so
07:15:05  <planetmaker> as that's railtype labels associated with electrified tracks catering for highspeed trains
07:15:22  <planetmaker> (that's line 96 in the link :D)
07:15:24  <V453000> my god :D
07:15:31  <planetmaker> and the vehicles would get railtype EL_RAIL
07:15:36  <planetmaker> and then pick the first available one
07:15:40  <planetmaker> of that list
07:16:04  <planetmaker> it really sounds *way* more complicated than it is
07:16:40  <V453000> I always considered the many pointlessly various rails in some train sets really wtf, now I can happily declare hating them
07:16:52  <planetmaker> why?
07:17:04  <V453000> it doesnt seem useful in any way
07:17:07  <planetmaker> and yes, in *train* sets, they IMHO serve no purpose
07:17:25  <planetmaker> other than sparing one newgrf to add separately
07:17:42  <V453000> well how would you make e.g. wetrails then
07:17:43  <planetmaker> and adding more of a plethora of labels etc ... and limiting how you can combine things
07:17:58  <planetmaker> V453000, that I would simply give it's own thing
07:18:09  <planetmaker> RL_WET: [WTRL]
07:18:14  <planetmaker> it simply is incompatible to anything
07:18:18  <V453000> right
07:18:35  <planetmaker> that's a very special rail
07:18:58  <planetmaker> but all "normal" rail vehicles can in principle run on either ELRL, RAIL, MONO or MGLV
07:19:12  <planetmaker> with probably a preference on your own versions of it or whatever :-)
07:19:46  <planetmaker> besides, if it's just for looks, then re-defining ELRL, RAIL, MONO and MGLV is very fine, I think
07:20:13  <planetmaker> if you change track capabilities like speed, curve speed or so... another label might be a good idea
07:21:00  <planetmaker> maybe according to what FooBar laid out in that treatise, in the comment in that file. maybe not :D
07:21:13  <planetmaker> brb, food
07:23:33  <V453000> exactly the part I hayt about coding :D
07:25:51  <V453000> and I didnt mean food
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07:27:29  <Elukka> i never liked the idea of railtypes with different speed limits
07:27:46  <Elukka> i feel that for most of the time it actually matters you have arbitrarily much money anyway and then it's just busywork
07:28:25  <V453000> well nutracks was a nice tool to "fix" train sets as in limit the fastest vehicle so that there is more vehicles to choose from
07:28:35  <Elukka> i like the game as a sandbox, but... sometimes i feel it'd be interesting if there was an economic challenge
07:28:41  <Elukka> if there was, then that feature might make more sense
07:28:41  <V453000> if it didnt look so massively awful it would have even been usable
07:29:20  <V453000> but having X railtypes for "voltage" or similar things is imo stupidly realistic
07:29:30  <planetmaker> V453000, an RTT de-couples tracks and vehilces. It allows you to simply say "this is a high-speed engine". And to define "high speed engines can run on these tracks"
07:29:41  <planetmaker> thus no worry about railtypes really when you design vehicles
07:29:50  <V453000> mhm, but NUTS does define all railtypes they run on
07:30:06  <planetmaker> I'd move that into PURR really :-)
07:30:07  <V453000> it also redefines more things for them like strings, sort orders, ...
07:30:11  <Elukka> people actually do different railtypes for different voltages?
07:30:17  <V453000> PURR isnt meant to be used always with NUTS
07:30:48  <V453000> also introduction dates for NUTS railtypes are needed there
07:30:53  <V453000> so that cant go away
07:34:13  <planetmaker> in what way are the introduction dates needed / changed?
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07:34:57  <Alberth> moin
07:35:32  <planetmaker> o/ Alberth
07:35:42  <Alberth> hi hi
07:35:56  <Alberth> we seem to have a deadlock in FS#5611 :)
07:36:34  <V453000> to fit the NUTS vehicles obviously :)
07:36:34  <Alberth> ie lack of progress for no apparent reason in solving the issue :)
07:37:17  <Alberth> nuts needs deadlock?
07:38:10  <planetmaker> V453000, if a vehicle requires an available railtype, it gets introduced: "This property defines the long date formatted introduction date of this rail type. With this property set the rail type will be introduced at (or after) this date when all of the introduction required rail types are available to the company of the player, or whenever a vehicle using this rail type gets introduced whichever is first. "
07:38:17  <planetmaker> so that seems not required
07:38:43  <planetmaker> hm... or not?
07:39:28  <V453000> I dont really know what is possible and how but it works now for me
07:39:59  <planetmaker> I understand it that introduction is defined by the vehicles for the default railtypes
07:40:46  <V453000> hm I define signals too :d
07:40:55  <planetmaker> that's part of railtypes
07:41:41  <V453000> nuts defines signals
07:42:03  <V453000> for all the railtypes mentioned
07:43:44  <planetmaker> Alberth, yeah... I guess he didn't get the hint that he might try with either patch :-P
07:44:35  <Alberth> I expected Zuu to finish it, and he apparently thought I'd do it :)
07:45:02  <planetmaker> :-)
07:45:13  <planetmaker> you should wrestle about that ;-)
07:46:43  <Alberth> yeah, but my opponent is not here :p
07:47:05  <planetmaker> I know when you can discuss it in person :-P
07:47:25  <Alberth> :D
07:50:08  <planetmaker> i start to wonder whether I should ship a new version of ogfx-landscape that very day, too :-)
07:51:00  <planetmaker> before I actually start with fancy ideas like "let's try this desert adopted from wesnoth" or so ;-)
07:59:59  <Alberth> make a wesnoth branch :)
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08:55:44  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25607 /trunk/src/script/api (ai_changelog.hpp game_changelog.hpp) (2013-07-14 08:55:38 UTC)
08:55:45  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5649]: Various misreferences in AI and GS changelog.
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09:01:26  <planetmaker> Alberth, is what I look at ;-) And I'm pondering whether can be put to good use, too :-)
09:02:12  <Alberth> pretty :)
09:02:31  <Alberth> want to make a knights and merchants program?  :)
09:02:50  <Alberth> (houses are too small for that)
09:03:34  <planetmaker> :-) New vehicle type: Elven ranger? Knight? Capacity: 1 passenger? :D
09:07:17  <V453000> ITS PURR TIME :D
09:07:20  <Alberth> I like the city building part much more interesting, tbh
09:07:44  <Alberth> V453000:  borrow the cat of Eddi
09:08:02  <V453000> I just uploaded a cat to bananas :P
09:08:06  <planetmaker> hm, maybe there's a windmill for andy: (lo, behold, curvy rail!)
09:08:45  <planetmaker> Alberth, yes, indeed it gives the <1900 area some inspiration and even start, IMHO
09:08:53  <planetmaker> the style is not that different that it wouldn't fit
09:09:47  <Alberth> it seems a bit more cartoonish
09:10:02  <Alberth> but cute :)
09:11:03  <planetmaker> true :-)
09:12:38  <Alberth> and the scale is equally very much broken :)
09:12:56  <planetmaker> in wesnoth in general? yeah
09:13:02  <planetmaker> just like ours :D
09:13:17  <planetmaker> Like an elven ranger towers over those buildings
09:15:34  <planetmaker> anyway it all started with the hunt for terrain textures :D
09:16:17  <SamanthaD> planetmaker: Tolkein did state very explicitly in his books that elves were rather tall
09:17:42  <Elukka> do FIRS industries still change production based on ratings or is it purely supply-based?
09:18:46  <SamanthaD> Elukka: I thought all secondary industries produced based on income...
09:18:50  <planetmaker> SamanthaD, who says that Tolkien's interpretation of elve is the only valid one? :-)
09:19:22  <Elukka> i was thinking of primary industries
09:19:46  <Elukka> there's a system in FIRS where some of the end products from secondary and tertiary industries are supplies that go back to primary industries
09:19:48  <SamanthaD> planetmaker: It was always my impression that Wesnoth elves were in that tradition
09:20:40  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25608 /trunk/src/pathfinder/yapf (3 files) (2013-07-14 09:20:34 UTC)
09:20:41  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: make EndSegmentReasonBits available in yapf_base.hpp
09:20:42  <SamanthaD> Elukka: Oh right! I forgot about that. Sorry, but I haven't played that much with FIRS to know
09:20:59  <Elukka> ...well that's interesting. some of my buses which run at capacity generate losses three times that of their maintenance costs
09:21:21  <Elukka> when they unload they show a cost instead of a profit... since i have cargodist on, i'm thinking maybe it's a symptom of a bottleneck in my network somewhere
09:21:52  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25609 /trunk/src/pathfinder/yapf (yapf_base.hpp yapf_costrail.hpp) (2013-07-14 09:21:46 UTC)
09:21:53  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5216]: under certain circumstances a track type change would make the end-of-line-is-red setting ineffective
09:26:15  <SamanthaD> Elukka: That sometimes happens when the game improperly estimates the profit from a leg of a journey
09:26:30  <SamanthaD> Elukka: The buses are "repaying" the difference
09:28:40  <V453000> :>
09:29:17  <planetmaker> :-)
09:29:29  <planetmaker> toyland and chips... hm :D
09:31:32  <frosch123> hmm, at that zoomlevel original toyland sprites are actualy watchable
09:31:44  <frosch123> in normal zoom they are way too busy
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09:32:25  <V453000> frosch what have you said
09:32:27  <V453000> :(
09:32:40  <SamanthaD> I might actually play toyland once in a while but the graphics for the ground
09:32:52  <frosch123> SamanthaD: use opengfx
09:32:56  <SamanthaD> it makes me want to take sandpaper to my retina
09:32:59  <frosch123> there toyland is very playable
09:33:25  <V453000> openttd is all about toyland
09:33:31  <Elukka> i figured there might actually be a loss somewhere since my network does have bottlenecks, so some of the passengers the buses are carrying might be sitting at another station for a long time
09:33:32  <SamanthaD> frosch123: I am using opengfx but the pattern on the ground still makes me want to gouge my eyes
09:33:35  <Elukka> but then again i'm making tons of money
09:33:53  <frosch123> SamanthaD: ok, then never ever try the original graphics :p
09:33:54  <SamanthaD> frosch123: it's all dotty and it makes my astigmatism hate me
09:34:12  <SamanthaD> frosch123: I did, and you're right. 1000x worse.
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09:36:17  <V453000> you guys are weird
09:36:17  <V453000> .
09:36:53  <SamanthaD> I'd love to play toyland if it weren't for the textured ground
09:37:17  <SamanthaD> wasn't there talk a while ago about dropping support for Toyland?
09:37:42  <frosch123> many people talk a lot of things
09:38:10  <Rubidium> yes, like dropping all railtypes and just keep 1
09:38:20  <V453000> what support are you talking about :DD
09:38:25  <frosch123> most people think removing toyland would allow adding a different 4th climate or something like that
09:38:33  <V453000> bad newGRFs already ignore toyland
09:38:37  <SamanthaD> I don't see why they can't add a fifth climate
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09:38:59  <planetmaker> There's no need for any additional climate
09:39:00  <frosch123> the point is: adding a fifth climate makes no sense
09:39:02  <V453000> anybody can make a newGRF set which makes a climate technically
09:39:04  <SamanthaD> it's not like OpenTTD is a binary hack or anything
09:39:05  <planetmaker> One would sufffice
09:39:14  <frosch123> you can add infinite many newgrf presets
09:39:31  <planetmaker> ^
09:39:40  <frosch123> maybe we should remove the climate selection from the main menu, and add a newgrf preset selection instead :p
09:40:32  <planetmaker> If it were not a selection of the (default) ground tiles, that'd make even sense
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09:40:37  <SamanthaD> speaking of climates... I was wondering if there's a way to get temperate maps to generate kinda like desert maps
09:40:49  <SamanthaD> as in, mountains in some areas but also a lot of flat land
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09:41:08  <frosch123> that's "variety distribution"
09:41:37  <frosch123> select "mountainious" and "high variety distribution" or something like that
09:41:37  <SamanthaD> oh, right
09:41:44  <SamanthaD> thanks!
09:44:19  <SamanthaD> frosch123: Apparently it's the other way around. "Low" variety distribution made a lot of flat land
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09:48:59  <Alberth> Elukka:
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09:55:39  <SamanthaD> could someone recommend a good road vehicle GRF to go with the dutch trains and trams sets?
09:56:27  <planetmaker> both together, opengfx+rv and HEQS
09:56:59  <SamanthaD> thanks!
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10:27:37  <V453000> Rubidium: thanks :D super handy now with PURR
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10:37:44  <zooks> V453000, can you show me a screenshot of PURR? It sounds interesting but I can't openttd atm..
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11:05:04  <SamanthaD> Okay... I'm utterly bewildered: I downloaded Dutch Road Furniture but it doesn't seem to DO anything O.O
11:05:14  <SamanthaD> it says it puts signs and what not on the road
11:05:58  <Rubidium> I reckon you need to place those objects yourself
11:06:14  <planetmaker> ^^
11:06:37  <SamanthaD> yes... but how do I do that?
11:06:46  <SamanthaD> I don't see any button for it
11:06:57  <planetmaker> landscape -> place object
11:07:13  <SamanthaD> Oh...
11:07:15  <SamanthaD> I see :3
11:10:38  <SamanthaD> thanks
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12:10:37  <andythenorth> any rule of thumb for when I should subclass in python?
12:10:54  <Xaroth|Work> DRY
12:11:07  <andythenorth> the alternative here being to pass keywords, and then have a load of 'if foo then ham = eggs' stuff on __init__
12:11:16  <Xaroth|Work> if two or more types of objects share the same functionality (or part of)
12:11:30  <Xaroth|Work> you create a parent class
12:11:37  <andythenorth> can't figure out if they're types of objects, or just a reconfiguration of one object
12:11:39  <andythenorth> they're all ships
12:11:49  <andythenorth> but their are distinct sub-types of ship
12:11:51  <andythenorth> there *
12:12:02  <Xaroth|Work> If all the functionality is the same, you dont' subclass
12:12:07  <Xaroth|Work> (ie only values differ)
12:12:16  <Xaroth|Work> like, I'd say Vehicle as a parent class
12:12:20  <Xaroth|Work> RoadVehicle as subclass
12:12:23  <Xaroth|Work> Airplane as subclass
12:12:24  <Xaroth|Work> etc
12:12:40  <Xaroth|Work> and Bus and Truck as subclasses of RoadVehicle
12:12:54  <andythenorth> yeah, so I think these are just on the edge of that
12:13:00  <Xaroth|Work> they are different ships
12:13:01  <andythenorth> probably on the side of subclassing
12:13:04  <Xaroth|Work> so, they don't have to subclass
12:13:13  <Xaroth|Work> but you -can- subclass that
12:13:24  <Xaroth|Work> i.e. Ship as base class
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12:13:29  <Xaroth|Work> and <Ship-Type-1> as subclass
12:13:33  <Xaroth|Work> and <Ship-Type-2> as subclass
12:13:34  <Xaroth|Work> etc
12:13:38  <andythenorth> depending on type, some properties will be added that aren't in Ship
12:13:46  <andythenorth> so I guess that's enough reason
12:13:49  <Xaroth|Work> then you subclass
12:13:54  <Xaroth|Work> as the functionality differs :)
12:18:34  <andythenorth> thanks
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12:35:02  <andythenorth> planetmaker: enjoying the sun?  Or want to help fix FISH makefile? o_O
12:44:17  <Xaroth|Work> whats broken with it?
12:44:31  <andythenorth> needs updating
12:44:40  <andythenorth> needs to not call nml twice :P
12:44:49  <andythenorth> has a broken configuration wrt deps
12:47:47  <andythenorth> I hacked something designed for nfo and grfcodec and c-pre-processor
12:47:51  <andythenorth> to use nml and python
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12:56:41  <Brumi> umm
12:56:47  <Brumi> Tovinhas is a spammer
12:57:02  <Brumi> spams me immediately when I connect
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12:59:56  <Xaroth|Work> correct
13:00:07  <frosch123> @kban Tovinhas
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13:01:57  <Eddi|zuHause> concerning station names, i just saw this: "<town>, auswÀrtiges Gehöft"
13:02:18  <frosch123> where? rl? :p
13:02:29  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, "rl"
13:03:49  <Eddi|zuHause> or as the piratebay guys put it: "we don't use the term 'irl', because we think the internet is real. we say 'afk'"
13:05:15  <frosch123> good point
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14:13:25  <frosch123> @op
14:13:28  *** mode/#openttd [+o frosch123] by DorpsGek
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14:14:39  <frosch123> @kick Espada
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14:15:20  <frosch123> @kick Espada
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14:15:45  <frosch123> so complicated :s
14:15:50  <frosch123> no clue :)
14:15:57  <Xaroth|Work> hehe
14:16:00  <frosch123> @deop
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16:19:19  <V453000> I suppose there is no way to make a railtype use e.g. monorail tunnels, eh?
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17:02:04  <peter1139> thi
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17:09:19  <frosch123> V453000: there is the fallback-railtype
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17:21:12  <V453000> frosch123: but alternative_railtype_list: 			["MONO"]; is not supposed to make the railtype use monorail stations / tunnels / path reserving in tunnels/bridges
17:21:16  <V453000> or am I doing something wrong?
17:21:59  <frosch123> i expected the "station_graphics" thingie to also switch tunnel graphics if you do not provide "tunnel_overlay"
17:22:14  <frosch123> but apparently that was forgotten to implement or so :p
17:22:54  <frosch123> alternative_railtype_list is unrelated to graphics
17:23:03  <V453000> thought so
17:24:44  <V453000> shame :(
17:25:18  <V453000> what is the likelihood of motivating someone to add that? :P
17:25:53  <frosch123> check who did the tunnel_overlay thingie
17:26:15  <frosch123> i would bet on pm or m_cc, cannot remember :)
17:26:37  <frosch123> you can meet both in two weeks
17:26:49  <V453000> Hirundo seems like the one ... if it is the thing written on tt-wiki
17:27:02  <frosch123> maybe you can persuade them with a unicorn cake, but i guess you would rather drink them under the table and then make them sign something :)
17:27:22  <V453000> :D plan
17:27:38  <V453000> anyway, is it nml limitation or in general a "missing" grf spec?
17:28:27  <frosch123> @commit 23952
17:28:27  <DorpsGek> frosch123: Commit by michi_cc :: r23952 /trunk (11 files in 4 dirs) (2012-02-15 21:23:48 UTC)
17:28:28  <DorpsGek> frosch123: -Feature: [NewGRF] Customisable tunnel portals for rail types (sprites by Snail).
17:28:58  <frosch123> V453000: it is a general missing thing. as said, i would have expected the "station_graphics" to do the trick, but they do not :)
17:29:07  <V453000> well yeah me too
17:29:16  <V453000> thats what I tried ages ago, too
17:29:22  <V453000> or well ages ... when I was coding nuts
17:29:38  <V453000> beer diplomacy shall be done
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17:31:14  <V453000> thanks anyway :)
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17:45:15  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25610 trunk/src/lang/vietnamese.txt (2013-07-14 17:45:08 UTC)
17:45:16  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:17  <DorpsGek> vietnamese - 37 changes by nglekhoi
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18:37:33  <michi_cc> frosch123: Default tunnel graphics come with the rails baked in, different to the station graphics. Thus I'm not sure how much sense it would make to switch tunnel graphics (or it should switch *all* graphics, from track sprites over level crossings to depot sprites).
18:38:49  <frosch123> i expected it to switch all graphics for which the railtype does not explicitly define graphics for
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18:38:56  <V453000> ^
18:39:03  <Wolf01> hello
18:39:12  <V453000> tunnels, stations, depots, path reserving, everything undefined (or things you cannot even define)
18:39:53  <Eddi|zuHause> path reservation should use the rail overlay sprites (with the "crashed" palette)
18:39:55  <frosch123> are the bridges railtype specific? i cannot remember :p
18:40:14  <V453000> sure Eddi but there are still the bridge/tunnelheads which apparently use the original rail reserving still
18:40:18  <michi_cc> It never did that, so it is at least not something missing from the tunnel feature :)
18:40:22  <V453000> dont ask me why or how :d
18:40:27  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that's probably a bug
18:40:38  <V453000> oh hmm
18:40:45  <Wolf01> !logs
18:40:52  <Eddi|zuHause> @logs
18:40:52  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause:
18:41:03  <frosch123> michi_cc: sure, it's not related to the tunnel_overlay feature, but it has still the word "tunnel" in it :p
18:41:05  <Wolf01> thanks, my old link doesn't wor
18:41:07  <Wolf01> k
18:41:14  <frosch123> who added depots?
18:41:25  <frosch123> is that original peter stuff?
18:41:56  <V453000> isnt it most related to the station_graphics ? because that is exacly what I would appreciate if worked for tunnel_graphics etc
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18:42:16  <michi_cc> I think so. Tunnel overlays (in contrast to just the track part) and signals are new, but the other stuff is "original" AFAIR.
18:42:24  <V453000> exactly
18:42:50  <frosch123> V453000: he blames it on peter, you have to bring a lot of beer :p
18:43:12  <V453000> kein problem
18:43:19  <V453000> lot of beer will happen regardless
18:43:34  <frosch123> yeah, your car drove with it iirc
18:43:51  <frosch123> (used it as fuel)
18:43:51  <andythenorth> o/
18:43:55  <V453000> :d
18:44:43  <frosch123> andythenorth: i tried to start a hod game in toyland today
18:44:51  <frosch123> it did not define a single cargo
18:44:59  <V453000> FIRS is broken in toyland :(
18:45:02  <V453000> <- sad
18:45:07  <andythenorth> not broken :P
18:45:14  <V453000> broken!
18:45:18  <andythenorth> toyland is a wrong :P
18:45:23  <Eddi|zuHause> should it just disable itself?
18:45:33  <V453000> firs used to work in toyland :(
18:46:08  <michi_cc> peter1139: Can we assume your meet visit pondering didn't turn out positive or does V get a "better" victim? ;)
18:46:43  <V453000> :D
18:48:43  <andythenorth> time for beer
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18:56:51  <planetmaker> hey ho
18:57:03  <planetmaker> andythenorth, we can have a look at the Makefile maybe tomorrow or so
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18:58:33  <andythenorth> ok
18:58:35  <andythenorth> thanks
18:58:40  <andythenorth> it's not complicated
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18:59:26  <V453000> sez andy
18:59:32  <Xaroth|Work> ^
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19:07:12  <andythenorth> ship smoke?
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19:08:09  <andythenorth> hmm
19:08:27  <andythenorth> if I add an __init__ to a subclass, does that override the __init__ for the parent class?
19:08:37  <andythenorth> that might be undesirable in this case...
19:08:55  <planetmaker> depends which language. You can call the __init__ of the parent scope
19:09:15  <andythenorth> python in this case
19:09:44  <Xaroth|Work> and yes, it does override
19:09:47  <andythenorth> do I just call __init__ on super?
19:10:00  <Xaroth|Work> you use super(ClassNameOfSubclass, self).__init__()
19:10:09  <andythenorth> ok
19:10:24  <andythenorth> do **kwargs etc get passed along?  Or I need to be explicit?
19:10:34  <andythenorth> explicit makes more sense...
19:10:45  <Xaroth|Work>
19:10:49  <Xaroth|Work> explicit
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19:11:11  <Xaroth|Work> that way you can add/remove arguments being passed to the super class
19:11:24  <Xaroth|Work> around about line  32 in that link, andythenorth
19:11:39  <andythenorth> thanks
19:12:03  <Xaroth|Work> as you see I change the format arg, before sending it up
19:12:36  * andythenorth learns stuff
19:12:38  <andythenorth> learning ftw
19:12:43  <Xaroth|Work> :)
19:12:46  <andythenorth> 'ftw' has fallen out of use recently
19:12:50  <andythenorth> more of that
19:13:18  <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r25611 /trunk (5 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-14 19:13:12 UTC)
19:13:19  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25608): Update project files.
19:13:52  <andythenorth> python is often bureaucratic
19:13:58  <andythenorth> but it's not magical
19:14:13  <andythenorth> which is ok
19:14:49  <Xaroth|Work> wait until you see epic monkeypatching action
19:14:56  <Xaroth|Work> that stuff makes your mind go 'eh?'
19:19:55  * andythenorth removes more code from FISH
19:20:01  <andythenorth> this set gets smaller
19:20:08  <andythenorth> is there a logical conclusion?
19:20:28  <Xaroth|Work> culling the crap ? :)
19:20:40  <Xaroth|Work> or, applying DRY/KISS
19:23:37  <andythenorth> just "less"
19:23:46  <andythenorth> no web-based configuration via CMS
19:23:56  <andythenorth> no pulling that to config files
19:24:00  <andythenorth> no parsing config files
19:24:22  <andythenorth> although....I could have kept all that, switched to using pickle instead of my own insane string encoding crap
19:24:48  <andythenorth> pickle would have been a much better bet than encoding lists with magic string chars :P
19:25:27  <Xaroth|Work> builtin stuff is usually better/more efficient than making your own version of the wheel
19:28:36  <andythenorth> :P
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19:45:57  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> 'ftw' has fallen out of use recently <-- i've never heard "ftw" outside this channel
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19:58:24  <andythenorth> pretty common in uk geek speak
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20:21:42  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25612 /trunk/src/script/api (script_order.cpp script_order.hpp) (2013-07-14 20:21:36 UTC)
20:21:43  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5648]: [AI] Don't return ERR_UNKNOWN when trying to move an order to its current location
20:28:50  <andythenorth> silly mistake was silly :P
20:29:19  <Xaroth|Work> .. apparently there's a python framework called 'slut' ............
20:29:45  <andythenorth> is it a troll?
20:29:52  <Xaroth|Work> not eve
20:29:54  <Xaroth|Work> not even, even
20:30:01  <andythenorth> apparently noy
20:30:02  <andythenorth> not
20:30:28  <andythenorth> hmm
20:30:38  <andythenorth> do I need to generate graphics over a network? o_O
20:30:42  * andythenorth thinks not
20:41:13  <frosch123> night
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20:50:24  <andythenorth> hmm
20:50:37  <andythenorth> I got in the habit of using .get() for dict access
20:50:42  <andythenorth> but it masks errors :P
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21:40:44  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:46:45  <Zuu> Is it evil to the translators to put the entire Neighbours is important manual into the story book? :-)
21:46:52  <Zuu> are*
21:47:37  <Zuu> I though about moving it to english.txt and then make a python script that compiles readme.txt from that.
21:49:14  <Zuu> However, it might be a point to keep the readme in the readme and just write some shorter texts for users of the script and have the readme/manual with detailed information targeted to the person who will set the settings.
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21:54:18  <TWerkhoven> i can imagine the manual being translated being helpfull to those not speaking english
21:56:13  <Zuu> While that is true, I don't want to pour too much work on translators that may be too much work for them in order to provide a complete translation of the script.
21:58:06  <Zuu> And you will anyway need to understand some english in order to be able to configure the script. So only the user-help really useful to translate.
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22:05:41  <SamanthaD> weird... one of my trains keeps complaining about being lost but it's going exactly where it's supposed to go...
22:06:28  <Zuu> Hmm, though putting the manual in the story book is not the intended use of that feature. Hhm, I should write up a story instead of abusing my own feature :-p
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22:48:21  <Zuu> Draft story for NAI:
22:49:14  <Zuu> Feel free to re-write or propose changes/imrovements :-)
23:08:07  <Xaroth|Work> sounds a bit like a bad fairy tale tbh
23:08:10  <Xaroth|Work> once upon a time...
23:08:47  <Xaroth|Work> at least add a "And they lived happily ever after" to the last paragraph
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23:55:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i always wonder this: "happily ever after" seems to be an invention of the english translators. in the original german it says something like "and if they haven't died, they still live today"

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