Log for #openttd on 18th July 2013:
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03:46:42  <dryerlint> is it true what I heard about some kind of automatic spacing thingy?
03:54:59  <dryerlint> can anyone teach me the ways of the automatic train spacing?
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05:33:07  <SamanthaD> dryerlint: It's not really automatic. If you control-click one of the buttons it will set the starting days automatically, though
05:33:31  <SamanthaD> dryerlint: If you want *real* separation you need to apply a custom patch
05:33:34  <Supercheese> semi-automatic, really
05:33:38  <SamanthaD> yeah
05:33:49  <SamanthaD> The patch is out-of-date, though
05:33:57  <SamanthaD> but I have an up to date version n_n
05:33:59  <Supercheese> You need a federal tax stamp and a background check for fully automatic  :P
05:34:13  <SamanthaD> and I shall give it to anyone who asks for it :3
05:34:27  <SamanthaD> I'm not posting it 'cuz I'm pretty amateur at all of this
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05:34:35  <SamanthaD> also, it takes about three minutes to merge the patch into current
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05:36:46  <SamanthaD> oops, looks like he went away
05:36:47  <SamanthaD> oh well
05:37:24  <SamanthaD> I'd say about 90% of people don't want to muck about with a compiler anyway
05:38:00  <SamanthaD> I really hope they merge the automatic spacing into trunk though
05:38:11  <SamanthaD> IMHO it's one of those must-have features
05:38:35  * SamanthaD ponders modifying the patch a bit, though
05:38:49  <SamanthaD> especially with cargodist it could cause some problems if it chooses to skip a station
05:38:51  <SamanthaD> or a stop
05:39:48  <SamanthaD> maybe a little modification so that it will never skip an order to refit the cargo type
05:44:40  <SamanthaD> Oh! And it should do the checks about whether or not its running late while in a station and, if it's late enough to skip a station, dump any cargo destined to said station!
05:45:09  <SamanthaD> now that we have cargodist in trunk, the next vehicle in the convoy will pick it up :3
05:45:45  * Supercheese doesn't use cargodist
05:46:14  <SamanthaD> right, but any patch made has to take it into consideration now that it's in trunk
05:46:18  <SamanthaD> also
05:46:24  <SamanthaD> HEATHEN! @.@
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06:02:01  <montalvo> so i don't know if anyone else here has had this issue
06:02:08  <montalvo> but if you're running openttd on mac os
06:02:15  <montalvo> and it crashes when an AI starts
06:02:22  <montalvo> compiling your own version of the game fixes it :)
06:07:06  <SamanthaD> that's weird... it shouldn't
06:07:12  <dryerlint> no I'm still here
06:07:22  <montalvo> it's this bug, in particular
06:07:24  <SamanthaD> dryerlint: would you like the patch?
06:07:27  <dryerlint> and no, I'm not a programmer I'm a chef
06:07:36  <montalvo>
06:07:44  <SamanthaD> dryerlint: what kind of OS do you run?
06:07:56  <dryerlint> W7 64
06:08:30  <SamanthaD> dryerlint: Ah, no luck then... If you were running GNU/Linux 64bit I'd have just tossed you my patched binary :3
06:08:58  <dryerlint> I would run Linux if I had time to learn Linux 3:<
06:09:03  <Supercheese> Which patch?
06:09:33  <SamanthaD> oh god... which patch did I apply >.<
06:09:51  <dryerlint> I run the nightly
06:10:00  <dryerlint> or atleast, the goon server is
06:10:34  <Xaroth|Work> a goon, a goon
06:10:39  <dryerlint> I know right
06:10:42  <dryerlint> goons ruin everything
06:10:53  <Xaroth|Work> shouldn't you be stinging testies ?
06:11:11  <dryerlint> is that some kind of pub joke?
06:11:22  <Xaroth|Work> eve joke more like
06:11:30  <dryerlint> I don't play eve
06:11:36  <Xaroth|Work> good :P
06:11:37  <dryerlint> (and neither do most goons)
06:11:57  <Xaroth|Work> most goons I come in contact with do :P
06:12:06  <Xaroth|Work> but that might have to do with only seeing them in eve...
06:12:21  <dryerlint> your logic is flawless sir
06:12:28  <Xaroth|Work> it always has been
06:13:06  <Xaroth|Work> and define 'train spacing'
06:15:02  <SamanthaD> Xaroth|Work: Keep em from getting bunched up
06:15:30  <Xaroth|Work> oh that's simple
06:15:34  <Xaroth|Work> keep adding more trains
06:15:37  <Xaroth|Work> until you can no more
06:15:37  <SamanthaD>
06:15:42  <Xaroth|Work> then they are always evenly spaced :P
06:15:44  <dryerlint> the server admin knows the term
06:15:44  <SamanthaD> that's the patch I'm using
06:15:57  <SamanthaD> only, I had to make a couple of trivial changes to merge it into nightly
06:15:58  <dryerlint> full timetable automation
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06:16:21  <SamanthaD> Xaroth|Work: Yeah... but that's wasteful when there isn't that much to move
06:16:32  <Xaroth|Work> true that
06:16:39  <SamanthaD> Especially early in the game
06:16:53  <Xaroth|Work> interesting patch
06:16:55  <SamanthaD> I often end up with really long trunk lines but not enough money to run more than 5-6 trains on it :p
06:17:56  <Xaroth|Work> is also interesting in that regard
06:18:19  <SamanthaD> I tried Slim Timetables briefly but I found it didn't work as well
06:18:26  <montalvo> i'm a goon too, hi
06:18:35  <dryerlint> it's handy when you have 1000 tile long cargo dist passenger lines
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06:19:24  <Xaroth|Work> @openttd 25377
06:19:29  <Xaroth|Work> @revision 25377
06:19:30  <SamanthaD> dryerlint: I especially like automatic separation for my cargodist local lines to ensure that the express trains from out-of-town get serviced in a timely fashion
06:19:32  <Xaroth|Work> meh
06:19:34  <Xaroth|Work> silly DorpsGek
06:19:49  <Xaroth|Work> (svn r25377) -Feature: timetable spreading of vehicles by Ctrl+Click when setting a start date
06:20:20  <SamanthaD> Yeah, that's good and all but the patch I linked is better :3
06:20:31  <Xaroth|Work> yeh, but r25377 is in trunk
06:20:35  <SamanthaD> :p
06:20:35  <Xaroth|Work> and as such, in nightly builds
06:20:41  <Xaroth|Work> I mean
06:21:32  <dryerlint> well let me try that
06:21:44  <SamanthaD> Real men run experimentally patched betas ;)
06:22:16  <Xaroth|Work> not if they are limited to playing on servers who run nightly builds ;)
06:22:26  <SamanthaD> :p
06:23:09  <Supercheese> Goons? In OTTD?
06:23:18  <Supercheese> Zounds
06:23:27  <SamanthaD> I'm pondering writing an automatic separation patch that adjusts separation by assigning speed limits to the vehicles that aren't behind schedule
06:24:16  <SamanthaD> optionally, with the other option being "dump cargo for next station and skip it unless its an order to go to a depot in which case proceed as usual"
06:24:39  <SamanthaD> the option to apply speed limits would probably make co-op players weep if it ever got merged into trunk and didn't have another option
06:25:29  <montalvo> you can separate trains?!
06:25:34  <dryerlint> facepalm
06:25:47  <SamanthaD> montalvo: No, you can't split trains but you can alter the amount of distance between them
06:25:55  <montalvo> ah, gotcha
06:26:11  <SamanthaD> montalvo: we're talking about patches that make it so that vehicles in a convoy evenly space themselves out
06:26:21  <montalvo> i see! that would be nifty
06:26:28  <SamanthaD> it's a reality :3
06:26:32  <montalvo> hooray!
06:26:39  <SamanthaD> but only if you're brave
06:26:44  <SamanthaD> there's half a dozen patches
06:26:49  <SamanthaD> two of them relatively current
06:27:04  <montalvo> i'm not very brave at all
06:27:15  <SamanthaD> but they're both slightly problematic in that they can mess up your network
06:27:23  <montalvo> and i would imagine there is a lot more i can do to make my transportation network more efficient before convoy spacing is important :)
06:27:41  <dryerlint> no it there isn't, trust me we've tried all other avenues
06:27:43  <dryerlint> this is the only way
06:27:45  <SamanthaD> montalvo: sec, let me pastebin my .diff
06:28:06  <montalvo> well, like, merging 5 haphazardly placed train stations around a city into one
06:28:09  <planetmaker> moin
06:28:11  <montalvo> or learning how to use signals properly
06:28:20  <Xaroth|Work> o/ pm
06:28:23  <SamanthaD> montalvo: yeah, but that's kinda cheating ;)
06:28:33  <montalvo> signals?
06:28:44  <montalvo> or the station merging
06:28:47  <dryerlint> signal are literally cheating
06:29:00  <montalvo> i am so confused
06:29:08  <planetmaker> SamanthaD, montalvo you don't need be brave. Auto-separation for time-tabled vehicles is in trunk
06:29:26  <Xaroth|Work> pm: i informed them thusly
06:29:36  <planetmaker> sorry. Just got up :-) Hi Xaroth
06:29:42  <Xaroth|Work> hiya
06:30:16  <SamanthaD> planetmaker: Yeah, but AFAIK trunk won't fix separation once the vehicles are moving
06:30:19  <Supercheese> It's semi-auto-separation
06:32:22  <SamanthaD>
06:32:24  <SamanthaD> there you go!
06:32:30  <SamanthaD>
06:32:40  <dryerlint> yeah apparently we need to apply for a tax stamp to go full auto
06:32:41  <SamanthaD> the pastebin contains an updated patch
06:32:48  <SamanthaD> for the patch in the forum link I just linked
06:33:10  <SamanthaD> it patches to r25615
06:34:52  <SamanthaD> n_n
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06:46:30  <andythenorth> hmm
06:46:40  <Supercheese> Salve, andy
06:46:50  <andythenorth> non-availability of a vehicle's default cargo can have side effects (e.g. HEQS capacity issue)
06:46:57  <andythenorth> I am looking at this in FISH 2
06:47:22  <Supercheese> Well, you can match the default cargo to one that's consistently available in all FIRS economies
06:47:30  <andythenorth> that assumes FIRS
06:47:38  <Supercheese> Well, you control FIRS
06:47:40  <Supercheese> :P
06:48:03  <Supercheese> But yes, a reasonable attempt to include other cargo sets is desirable
06:49:03  <Supercheese> cargotable { CORE, ...
06:49:06  <Supercheese> what's CORE?
06:49:15  <V453000> copper ore
06:49:30  <Supercheese> righto
06:50:30  <Supercheese> Is there a way to do a check for cargo availability, and set the default_cargo_type based on the results of that check?
06:50:35  * Supercheese wikis
06:51:35  <V453000> what you mean is that if a vehicle has default cargo e.g. coal, it will bork in tropic? That sounds weird? :D
06:51:51  <andythenorth> for purchase menu, I could provide a switch that cascades a range of cargos
06:51:56  <Supercheese>
06:52:03  <andythenorth> I don't know if I can do that when vehicle is built though
06:52:16  <andythenorth> in fact, not sure I can do it for purchase either
06:52:18  <V453000> hm
06:52:25  <V453000> is that related to trains as well?
06:52:28  <andythenorth> player controls cargo refit, not newgrf
06:53:35  <Supercheese> "By default, passenger capacity is 4x, and mail/goods capacity 2x larger than capacity for other cargoes. The capacity set here is used for the default (i.e. first refittable) cargo. Use the cargo_capacity callback to avoid this effect. "
06:53:43  <Supercheese> Hmmm
06:53:45  <Supercheese> callback?
06:53:56  <Supercheese> FISH seems to use that
06:54:10  <planetmaker> Supercheese, yes, you can check for available cargos and set default accordingly
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06:55:38  <planetmaker> if cargo_available("CORE") { item (FEAT_XXX, myveh) { property { default_cargo_type: CORE; } } }
06:56:24  <Supercheese> I don't see any documentaiton on cargo_available
06:56:39  <andythenorth> V453000:
06:56:43  <planetmaker> I probably used the wrong name there... just looking
06:57:02  <planetmaker>  cargotype_available(cargotype)
06:57:06  <andythenorth> planetmaker: that's action 6 or so?
06:57:09  <planetmaker>
06:57:13  <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes
06:57:14  <andythenorth> that will work
06:57:16  <Supercheese> There we go :)
06:57:20  <andythenorth> I was thinking of switches
06:57:37  <planetmaker> that won't work that way
06:57:43  <planetmaker> for *default* cargo type
06:57:45  <andythenorth> no
06:57:54  <andythenorth> action 6 is a good idea
06:58:00  <planetmaker> at least I don't think :-)
06:58:01  <Supercheese> pm's pseudocode is what I was thinking of
06:58:09  <andythenorth> I can implement that
06:58:37  <andythenorth> I can fix capacity independently
06:58:51  <andythenorth> but I want to also provide a cascade of sensible default cargos
06:58:56  <planetmaker> yeah, that's a totally different thing
06:59:22  <Supercheese> Seems like a bunch of if-thens
06:59:29  <planetmaker> yes
06:59:34  <andythenorth> it's weird that a ship that defaults to coal with one newgrf gets livestock or whatever in another
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06:59:38  <andythenorth> I can improve that
06:59:51  <andythenorth> at least for common cases
07:00:52  <planetmaker> there's not too many cases you need to check anyway. Default, some FIRS economies. Some ECS vectors. PBI. Done
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07:02:31  <andythenorth> yup
07:02:50  <andythenorth> COAL, IORE, CORE etc
07:03:03  <andythenorth> some kind of express cargos cascade
07:03:11  <andythenorth> GOOD, FOOD, ENSP or such
07:03:17  <andythenorth> done
07:03:20  <planetmaker> ^
07:04:14  * andythenorth -> work
07:04:16  <andythenorth> bye
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07:08:39  <SamanthaD> ENSP?!
07:08:50  <Supercheese> Engineering Supplies
07:08:57  <SamanthaD> ah!
07:09:03  <Supercheese> cargo labels can be weird sometimes :P
07:09:13  <planetmaker> JAVA ftw!
07:09:15  <Supercheese> ...but then you get BEER
07:09:21  <Supercheese> and JAVA yeah
07:09:42  <planetmaker> what a lovely discussion we had about when deciding on that label :-D
07:09:55  <SamanthaD> I just realized that the OpenGFX+ Industries NewGRF doesn't include Toyland industry chains...
07:09:57  <SamanthaD> damn...
07:10:02  <Supercheese> doesn't it?
07:10:04  <Supercheese> Hmm
07:10:07  <SamanthaD> I don't think it does...
07:10:09  <planetmaker> no(t) yet
07:11:09  <SamanthaD> yup
07:11:28  <SamanthaD> for some perverse reason I *really* want to run a fizzy drink train in Temperate
07:11:49  <Supercheese> Ooooooh yeeaaaaah.... oh wait, that's Kool-Aid
07:11:54  <Supercheese> close enough :P
07:12:05  <SamanthaD> heh
07:12:29  <planetmaker> not sure we can actually fit thos cargos in the scheme still, whether there are enough cargo slots left
07:12:31  <SamanthaD> I can still violate every known food safety law by refitting my rolling stock from crude oil to drinks and back ;)
07:12:36  <planetmaker> 32 cargos is max kinda
07:12:52  <SamanthaD> patch!
07:13:00  <Supercheese> Autorefit is the bane of every health inspector
07:13:00  <planetmaker> SamanthaD, opengfx+trains allows that ;-) But it costs you the clensing
07:13:23  <planetmaker> health inspectors included in price tag :D
07:13:31  <planetmaker> (the bribing, of course)
07:13:34  <Supercheese> Take airplane, autorefit to gasoline, autorefit to fish, autorefit to passengers, autorefit to food..
07:13:40  <Supercheese> and so on
07:13:52  <SamanthaD> haha!
07:14:01  <Supercheese> I often do things like that just for the laughs
07:14:06  <planetmaker> that's the plane to decide :-) It could disallow autorefit between that different kind of cargos
07:14:09  <Supercheese> but equally often it's useful
07:14:19  <Supercheese> airplane was just an example
07:14:29  <SamanthaD> yeah... but with airplanes you can posit that they're not carrying the food and what have you actually in the storage tanks
07:14:36  <SamanthaD> but like... fuel bottles or something
07:14:39  <SamanthaD> and that's no fun
07:14:46  <Supercheese> CHIPS does show barrels of fuel
07:14:50  <Supercheese> seems plausible
07:14:52  <SamanthaD> mmhm
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07:44:49  * Xaroth|Work pokes planetmaker
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07:59:26  <dryerlint> would it be hard to mod the game to stay the same year forever
07:59:36  <dryerlint> let's pretend I've got super spergs and love steam trains
07:59:50  <Supercheese> use the date cheatr
07:59:52  <Supercheese> cheat*
08:00:19  <dryerlint> but for multiplayer
08:00:38  <Supercheese> I think that would require a patch
08:00:43  <SamanthaD> dryerlint: Also maybe consider setting "vehicles never expire" option
08:00:48  <Supercheese> or newgrf
08:01:13  <Supercheese> which would just provide steam engines :P
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08:01:19  <SamanthaD> Supercheese: You mean like... one that contained a DeLorian or something?
08:01:22  <Supercheese> (or equivalently, disable all other engines)
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08:02:18  <dryerlint> I guess I'm the only one who loves 1960
08:02:48  <SamanthaD> dryerlint: 1960?! I play most of my games around 1900-1920
08:02:56  <dryerlint> :/
08:03:08  <Xaroth|Work> you mean ?
08:03:29  <SamanthaD> haha
08:04:31  <planetmaker> hm, Xaroth ?
08:05:14  <planetmaker> dryerlint, start in the desired time and indeed use "vehicles never expire"
08:05:23  <planetmaker> allows you to use those vehicles forever
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08:05:31  <Xaroth|Work> forever!
08:05:42  <SamanthaD> the only problem with that is that their reliability might tank so by the time you're at year 2000 the trains have 30% reliability :p
08:05:51  <SamanthaD> so you might want to also disable breakdowns completely
08:06:19  <dryerlint> lol, who plays with breakdowns?
08:06:59  <SamanthaD> I do!
08:07:27  <dryerlint> um, you're scaring me, can you please step back before I blow this whistle
08:07:34  <SamanthaD> breakdowns are fun :3
08:08:32  * dryerlint blows whistle
08:08:36  <dryerlint> RAPE
08:09:01  <SamanthaD> I've been working on designing fault tolerant trunk lines
08:09:14  <SamanthaD> using path signals and a tonne of criss-crossy tracks
08:09:28  <SamanthaD> hardly realistic though :p
08:09:33  <Xaroth|Work> grinding your game to a complete stop by the time you hit 2000+ trains :p
08:10:23  <SamanthaD> ah yeah... I never end up with that many trains
08:10:31  <SamanthaD> I tend to max out around 50-100
08:10:44  <SamanthaD> I also tend to only play on maximum 128x128 maps
08:10:48  <Xaroth|Work> :|
08:11:13  <SamanthaD> I'm obsessive/compulsive so I get very anxious if I don't address EVERY industry/town/ect on the map
08:11:25  <SamanthaD> and anything much bigger than 128^2...
08:11:27  <Supercheese> That can be done easily enough on a 256x256 map
08:11:28  <SamanthaD> my head melts
08:11:44  <Supercheese> depending  on town/industry settings
08:12:13  <SamanthaD> yeah... but I also get weird about giving each town a bus system and reworking their streets
08:12:40  <SamanthaD> maybe I'll try 256^2 at some point
08:12:41  <Supercheese> I just tell all towns to use 3x3 grid
08:12:49  <Supercheese> usually prevents road insanity
08:12:59  <SamanthaD> but my favorite size is either 128^2 with a lot of water or 64x1024
08:13:08  <SamanthaD> I often do 3x3
08:13:21  <SamanthaD> but I also like "better roads"
08:13:34  <SamanthaD> "original roads" though... I have no clue why that's the default
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08:13:37  <planetmaker> I most often play 512² - but also loads of water
08:13:42  <planetmaker> like 50%
08:13:45  <SamanthaD> yeah
08:13:59  <SamanthaD> obscene amounts of water makes huge maps manageable
08:14:04  <planetmaker> 64² is an actual challange. Very hard to master
08:14:18  <SamanthaD> I absolutely love 64x64
08:15:11  <SamanthaD> set industries to minimal and I'm *STILL* building stations that service three or four industries :p
08:16:11  <SamanthaD> with 64x64 road vehicles really are king
08:16:22  <SamanthaD> especially once they start hitting 80km/h
08:16:58  <SamanthaD> but usually I play a "challenge" game where I don't let myself use road vehicles except as feeders to my trains
08:17:07  <SamanthaD> or if the run is less than five squares or something like that
08:26:17  <Supercheese> good night
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08:28:14  <Eddi|zuHause> <SamanthaD> Oh! And it should do the checks about whether or not its running late while in a station and, if it's late enough to skip a station, dump any cargo destined to said station! <-- so if your timetable always fucks up at the same station, that next station is never serviced?
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08:34:25  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, totally realistic ;-)
08:35:02  <planetmaker>
08:35:10  <Eddi|zuHause> pfft :p
08:35:39  <Eddi|zuHause> plus, why do you think skipping a station saves time?
08:35:49  <planetmaker> doesn't?
08:36:44  <Eddi|zuHause> 90% of all timetables are A<->B. 9% of all timetables, you have to go past the skipped station anyway
08:37:33  <planetmaker> yes. you save the time of stopping and (un)loading. In RL like maybe 5 minutes, maybe 10?
08:37:41  <Eddi|zuHause> so at best you'd save the loading/unloading step, which is like 4 days
08:38:11  <planetmaker> yes... I just setup a time table in OpenTTD... was like 6 to 7 days before it worked out
08:38:17  <planetmaker> but was for a 600-capacity pax plane
08:38:31  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: long distance trains typically stop for 2 minutes (plus acceleration/deceleration)
08:39:14  <planetmaker> yeah. which is 5 minutes maybe :-)
08:40:17  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and many stations aren't built for fast through-traffic anyway, so you'd have to decelerate/accelerate a bit anyway
08:41:55  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "our train to frankfurt is now 10 minutes delayed. travellers for fulda please exit in erfurt and take the next train in an hour. please excuse the inconvenience and sÀnk ju for trÀvelling wis deutsche bahn"
08:43:01  <Xaroth|Work> hehe
08:43:46  <planetmaker> exactly that, Eddi|zuHause :-)
08:44:21  <roboboy> I have had that sort of situation except my train was indefinately delayed
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08:52:38  <SamanthaD> well... it would be an option I suppose
08:52:51  <SamanthaD> what I could see it really useful for is road vehicles that can take shortcuts
08:53:02  <SamanthaD> or local trains
08:53:19  <SamanthaD> I make a lot of train networks where there might only be 10-15 tiles between stations
08:53:32  <SamanthaD> so yeah, skipping a station or two WOULD make a huge difference
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09:09:52  <SamanthaD> anyway... it's bedtime for me
09:10:02  <SamanthaD> see you lot later!
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09:53:53  <Skasi> I just started OpenTTD for the first time in quite a long while. Where do I change music- and sound volumes?
09:59:19  <peter1139> only in game unfortunately
10:05:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Skasi: if you start a game, there's a jukebox icon on the right of the toolbar
10:06:52  <Skasi> interesting, thanks!
10:19:10  <dihedral> greetings
10:23:27  <Xaroth|Work> o/ dih
10:27:15  <oskari89> 2cc trainset Devs:
10:27:21  <oskari89> That could be nice addition :)
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10:29:45  <Eddi|zuHause> if i'd have to say anything in that set, i wouldn't include such a thing
10:30:32  <Eddi|zuHause> after all, it was never in "real" service
10:35:42  <dihedral> hello Xaroth|Work :-)
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13:19:28  <Belugas> hello
13:23:17  <Xaroth|Work> o/
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13:53:44  <Alberth> o/
13:53:54  <Xaroth|Work> o/
14:04:53  <Belugas> another night spent on playing some police...
14:05:20  <Belugas> i learned how to play "half-harmonics"
14:05:49  <Belugas> quite a cool technic, in fact
14:06:14  <Belugas> only to be heard in "i can't stand losing you", in the bridge
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14:10:38  <peter1139> love that tune
14:10:51  <Belugas> :D
14:11:03  <Belugas> yeah! me too
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14:18:46  <Belugas> an easy one play, honestly
14:19:06  <Belugas> only trick (apart the harmonics) is the picking
14:29:34  <peter1139> @seen dihedral
14:29:34  <DorpsGek> peter1139: dihedral was last seen in #openttd 3 hours, 53 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <dihedral> hello Xaroth|Work :-)
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17:39:44  <dihedral> peter1139, here
17:40:29  <peter1139> the solution was simple, just don't have a shared key on the vpn setup :p
17:40:58  <dihedral> interesting
17:41:10  <dihedral> i thought the setup of ipsec asked for a shared key
17:41:27  <peter1139> it does, but you can leave it blank, in which case you can't connect
17:41:30  <dihedral> i am having my issues setting up ipsec on a juniper srx
17:41:40  <peter1139> but you can still connect with rsa keys which bypasses the sharead key part
17:41:49  <dihedral> interesting
17:41:53  <dihedral> thanks for the feedback
17:41:58  <peter1139> *shared
17:42:02  <dihedral> i'll try to memorize it until i need it myself again :-D
17:42:34  <peter1139> hehe
17:42:57  <dihedral> you do not happen to know how to configure ipsec vpn on juniper srx, do you?
17:45:13  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25618 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2013-07-18 17:45:09 UTC)
17:45:14  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:15  <DorpsGek> polish - 3 changes by p0358
17:47:48  <peter1139> no, not touched juniper
17:48:40  <dihedral> shame :-)
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18:02:01  <Wolf01> hi o/
18:02:52  <Alberth> o/
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19:04:02  <andythenorth> o/
19:04:45  <Xaroth|Work> o/
19:08:11  <Zuu> Hello
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19:42:08  <andythenorth> quiet eh?
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19:43:04  <Alberth> yeah, it is
19:43:32  <pjpe> did the infrastructure guy ever consider going for trunk inclusion like fonso did with cargodist
19:44:49  * andythenorth is learning git
19:45:03  <andythenorth> working with git and hg in different shells (different projects) is interesting
19:45:13  <andythenorth> my fingers get confused a lot
19:45:25  <andythenorth> also one of the projects has a build environment wrapper, managed by svn
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19:45:27  <andythenorth> what larks
19:45:35  <andythenorth> are we making anything then?
19:45:36  <TWerkhoven> sounds fun
19:45:40  <Zuu> indeed. Git makes me as hg user confused
19:45:52  <pjpe> isn't there an hg frontend for git
19:46:11  <Zuu> I always forget that I need to stage my changes before I can commit them or pass an extra flag in order to commit all changed files.
19:46:39  <Zuu> And each time I need to make a 'hg rollback' I need to use google to figure out what to type.
19:49:04  <Xaroth|Work> the github client is fucking awesome
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19:55:22  <Alberth> Xaroth|Work: that's cheating :p
19:55:42  <Alberth> pjpe: what infrastrucure are you talking about?
19:55:47  <Xaroth|Work> Alberth: so? :P
19:55:53  <Xaroth|Work> I call it using the right tools
19:56:01  <pjpe> oh
19:56:03  <pjpe> infrastructure sharing
19:56:04  <pjpe> missed a word
19:56:06  <Alberth> it's not scriptable
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19:57:49  <Alberth> pjpe: I don't think he ever tried, which is not surprising given the conceptual flaws of the solution.
19:57:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i agree, if you're used to svn/hg, then git is totally unintuitive
19:58:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure git in itself is very logical and consistent. but for something i might need twice a year, it requires too much reading of manuals
19:58:47  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: github client helps a lot ;)
19:59:21  <Xaroth|Work> with the github client, hg is like trying to produce a working tar command first try.
19:59:22  <Alberth> I stopped considering using it when I read I had to pack the repo manually
19:59:38  <Xaroth|Work> as in:
20:00:16  <Alberth> I saw that, and failed to see the problem :p
20:00:22  <glx> tar is not hard
20:00:38  <Xaroth|Work> less hard than hg :P
20:00:45  <Alberth> pretty much like zip and jar
20:00:50  <Alberth> and arj
20:01:07  <glx> oh Alberth is old ;)
20:01:11  <Rubidium> I'd say --help
20:01:31  <Alberth> BSD tar?  I would not bet on it :)
20:02:05  <frosch123> i only ever used tar with files, never with tapes
20:02:36  <glx> I'm used to tar x[zj]f
20:02:44  <glx> the basic usage
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20:05:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i also thought i knew tar, until i recently had to decompress a .tar.xz :p
20:05:35  <Rubidium> tar -xf <filename>
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20:06:05  <Eddi|zuHause> (for reference, it's 'J')
20:06:11  <andythenorth> what's the deal with infrastructure sharing?  Is it good?
20:06:16  <andythenorth> I don't get it personally
20:07:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i primarily want to separate city-wide and map-wide services, while keeping the cargodist networks joined
20:07:15  <andythenorth> so you have two companies in a single player game?
20:07:21  <pjpe> it's also nice on servers where everyone likes having their own company so you can still kinda play together
20:07:33  <andythenorth> I see
20:07:34  <Eddi|zuHause> it's easier in a "local" multiplayer game
20:07:46  <andythenorth> well both sound valid
20:07:51  <andythenorth> next topic? :P
20:07:52  <Eddi|zuHause> because then you have the "switch company" button
20:08:15  <pjpe> it's like the next biggest patch after cargodist it feels like
20:08:16  <Eddi|zuHause> although the company window needs a "minimal" version similar to the finance window
20:08:45  <Eddi|zuHause> pjpe: i'd expect "more height levels" to be the next big patch to make it, but surprises can happen
20:08:54  <pjpe> unless those russian genies manage to get the underground patch to a point where it's actually worth using
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20:09:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i have not tried it, but the things i've heard or seen made it sound very discouraging
20:14:28  <frosch123> night
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20:17:16  <pjpe> why do paradox games always give an option to me for weird resolutions like 1344x1008
20:17:20  <pjpe> does someone really have a monitor with that resolution
20:17:35  <pjpe> this isn't even a paradox developed game come to think of it
20:17:42  <Dr_Tan> somebody in there beta squad?
20:17:42  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: "j" is a GNU extension, BSD does   xz -d foo.tar.xz | tar xf -
20:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: 'J' != 'j', though
20:18:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: and i've never really used any non-GNU tools
20:18:58  <Alberth> tar is running out of free letters, just like ls :)
20:19:38  <Eddi|zuHause> pjpe: generally, games list the resolutions your display driver reports
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20:19:54  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: for an off-world experience I recommend installing a BSD, OpenBSD if you want the most exotic experience :p
20:20:08  * LordAro waves
20:20:10  <Alberth> it makes you very much aware of how friendly linux is :)
20:20:10  <Eddi|zuHause> pjpe: so if both your monitor and your graphics card agree that this is a valid resolution...
20:20:16  <Alberth> hi LordAro
20:20:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: probably not gonna happen :p
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20:21:40  <Alberth> partitions?  we don't have those!  :)
20:22:22  <andythenorth> try a jail
20:23:04  <andythenorth> or not
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20:51:45  <Wolf01> 'night all
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21:27:20  <andythenorth> awesome
21:27:31  <andythenorth> FIRS docs templates are easily reused for other sets :)
21:27:37  <andythenorth> frameworky-ness ftw
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21:30:46  <Alberth> \o/ you found the right combination!
21:31:38  <pjpe> game script are fully compatible with multiplayer right
21:32:18  <Alberth> right
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21:52:01  <pjpe> why is the automatic separation or whatever patches for the timetables not in trunk
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21:54:58  <Xaroth|Work> patches have to hold to high standards before even being considered getting into trunk
21:55:26  <pjpe> yeah but i'm asking for someone else
21:55:30  <pjpe> if there's some specific issue
21:55:55  <LordAro> i thought auto separation is in trunk
21:55:57  <Xaroth|Work> I'm pretty sure that's between the patch creator and a developer
21:56:48  <Xaroth|Work> if said patch developer bothered to ask, that is
21:57:24  <LordAro> am i missing something?
21:57:44  <Xaroth|Work> different patch, LordAro
21:57:54  <LordAro> ok :)
21:57:56  <pjpe> that only works once doesn't it
21:58:00  <pjpe> and is that even documented anywhere
21:58:40  * andythenorth ->  bed
21:58:43  <andythenorth> bye
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21:59:35  <LordAro> night all
22:01:53  <Zuu> pjpe: it is documented in the tooltip of the button that you ctrl+click.
22:02:46  <Zuu> As long as the timetable has enough slack it is a setup onece and forget separation. Assuming you don't upgrade the vehicles and that congestion don't get worse over time.
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