Log for #openttd on 30th July 2013:
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00:11:30  <krinn> night all
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01:58:53  <SamanthaD> sup, y'all
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06:21:03  <dihedral> mornings
06:23:23  <SamanthaD> morning!
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06:31:58  <Alberth> o/ all
06:34:08  <dihedral> o/
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06:37:50  <LordAro> moin
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06:43:36  <SamanthaD> \o
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07:00:40  <Xaroth|Work> o/
07:01:59  <planetmaker> moin
07:04:54  <dihedral> mogning pm
07:04:57  <dihedral> ops
07:05:02  <dihedral> *morning
07:17:38  <peter1139> yup
07:18:09  <peter1139> hmm, wish i knew where my windows 7 media was :S
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07:44:40  <SamanthaD> peter1139: It magically turned into a Debian install disk?
07:44:58  <peter1139> odd, i don't use CDRWs :)
07:45:18  <SamanthaD> I have a couple ancient machines that don't boot USB
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07:59:32  <dihedral> planetmaker, is there some type of specification what you guys require from an autopilot replacement?
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08:01:20  <Xaroth|Work> it has to relay chat
08:01:25  <Xaroth|Work> it has to give ops rcon access
08:01:29  <Xaroth|Work> it has to log commands
08:01:31  <Xaroth|Work> and.. something
08:02:01  <dihedral> the first 3 are simple and already implemented in grapes ... i want to know the stuff that is not yet implemented :-P
08:02:10  <dihedral> password being set is also one, i know that
08:02:47  <Xaroth|Work> ah, he wanted it to work from within their irc bot
08:04:22  <planetmaker> well. There's requirements and nice-to-haves :-)
08:04:50  <SamanthaD> it has to electrocute spammers
08:05:07  <planetmaker> irc bridge yes. rcon for ops via irc bridge. command logging.
08:05:10  <dihedral> that's a pluggin you can write yourself :-P
08:05:30  <dihedral> i can even give you a separate channel that mirrors the console of openttd :-P
08:05:46  <V453000> that would be cute
08:05:46  <planetmaker> too many channels will make it go unnoticed
08:05:58  <dihedral> all messages are then rcon commands :-P
08:06:08  <V453000> oh D:
08:06:15  <dihedral> it's basically a remote console on irc :-D
08:06:39  <SamanthaD> sounds insecure... better wrap it in an SSH tunnel
08:07:24  <dihedral> blah
08:07:45  <planetmaker> can we have something like we have now, cycling of passwords for server? And a command to retrieve it?
08:08:26  <SamanthaD> why replace the system at all? it kinda sounds like people like it the way it is
08:08:46  <planetmaker> they don't
08:08:53  <SamanthaD> ah
08:08:56  <SamanthaD> then burn it :3
08:09:05  <planetmaker> we did
08:09:13  <SamanthaD> fwoosh
08:09:15  <dihedral> SamanthaD, to be very direct - i cannot remember asking you
08:09:25  <dihedral> and i will not engage in that discussion again
08:09:42  <dihedral> sorry
08:09:57  <SamanthaD> dihedral: sorry if I offended you. it wasn't intentional
08:10:43  <planetmaker> your comments simply showed you did not understand what the conversation's topic ;-)
08:11:56  <dihedral> SamanthaD, i was not offended, just felt like it was not helpful to answer my question ;-)
08:12:04  <planetmaker> dihedral, as I found in the weekend you know ap+'s capabilities quite well :-)
08:12:13  <dihedral> hehe
08:12:18  <dihedral> i know them off by heart :-D
08:12:42  <planetmaker> so basically what we need is a drop-in replacement, enhanced by command logging
08:13:36  <planetmaker> once that runs, it will need testing. And I'm sure *then* we'll come up with a zillion requests. But before... it's difficult
08:14:13  <planetmaker> sorry, biab. Meeting.
08:14:18  <Eddi|zuHause> exporting stats (game year, company value, ...) to a website :)
08:22:57  <dihedral> do you want command logging to go to a file per user? :-P
08:23:45  <planetmaker> nah. too tedious
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08:36:49  <LordAro> i want one:
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08:44:34  <Eddi|zuHause> "8k pixels are enough for everybody"?
08:45:28  <NGC3982> Morning
08:45:32  <SamanthaD> morning
08:51:24  <wakou2> Hallo Otters!
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08:52:09  <wakou2> Is there a way to find out who wrote a page on the wiki (gameplay manual)
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08:52:47  <Alberth> look at the history of the page, but I'd be surprised if there is just one author
08:53:09  <wakou2> Alberth: TY..
08:55:00  <wakou2> Alberth: You are right, many people! But Andythenorth the most recent, so I can talk to him here, if I need any collaboration....
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08:56:05  <Alberth> wakou2: it much better to just ask the question here in general, you'll get better answers faster
08:56:53  <dihedral> a collegue of mine is possibly interested in writing a webinterface for grapes :-)
08:57:09  <LordAro> compilation is always so fast when i remember -j5 :)
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08:57:27  <dihedral> wakou2, you can look at the diff to find out who edited the area you are interested in ;-)
08:57:29  <Alberth> LordAro:   export MAKEFLAGS=-j5
08:57:47  <LordAro> that might be worth remembering :)
08:58:08  <Alberth> better, add it to your shell init :)
08:58:53  <wakou2> Alberth: I was thinking of editing/rewriting a page and did not want to offend. If I sandbox my new version and then ask Andythenorth to review before publishing?
08:59:29  <LordAro> or anyone the page isn't andy's exclusively
08:59:41  <LordAro> s/anyone/anyone - /
08:59:48  <wakou2> LordAro: yes
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09:00:14  <Alberth> wakou2: just improve the page, nobody is owner of the wiki
09:00:22  <Alberth> no need to ask permission
09:00:24  <LordAro> "/home/lordaro/coding/ottd/cleantrunk/src/rev.cpp:58:41: error: expected primary-expression before ‘;’ token \n const byte _openttd_revision_modified = ;" <-- umm, help?
09:00:38  <LordAro> revision detection seems a bit borken
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09:01:10  <Alberth> you forgot to run configure?
09:01:15  <LordAro> nope
09:01:26  <wakou2> I know, but I don't want to offend anyone by undoing their hard work..
09:01:29  <LordAro> i've run make clean and make mrproper too
09:02:20  <Alberth> what happens if you run  ./ ?
09:03:05  <LordAro> "h3b2f9d04M	25633	2	h3b2f9d04M"
09:03:12  <LordAro> however, it's not modified :L
09:04:17  <Alberth> hg will probably think otherwise :)
09:04:27  <Alberth> but that output looks fine to me
09:06:19  <LordAro> i'll try redoing the checkout - it's the same from the old pc
09:10:13  <LordAro> that's better
09:10:18  <planetmaker> LordAro, make reconfigure && make -jX might have done the trick
09:10:52  <planetmaker> or maybe simply a hg up C
09:10:54  <planetmaker> hg up -C
09:11:29  <LordAro> eh, a re-clone seemed to work :)
09:11:58  <LordAro> oh, the bootstrap startup looks nice - i don't believe i've seen it before :L
09:12:20  <planetmaker> you won't, if you have like base sets present
09:12:30  <planetmaker> don't you have that stuff in ~/.openttd ?!
09:12:58  <LordAro> i haven't transferred it yet :L
09:13:42  <LordAro> there you go - all 1.5GB tranferred
09:13:58  <peter1139> GT610 installed
09:14:09  <peter1139> shitty cheap modern card
09:14:21  <peter1139> suppose it's better than dodgy pixels everywhere due to the memory being cooked
09:14:38  <dihedral> peter1139, how did you manage that??
09:14:51  <dihedral> by the way - i did miss you during the weekend
09:16:32  <Eddi|zuHause> my .openttd is 2.4GB
09:16:34  <peter1139> well it was 40 degrees in the office, so...
09:16:44  <peter1139> you didn't miss me, i just wasn't there :p
09:16:51  <LordAro> Eddi: show off :P
09:20:19  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, 100MB in bananas stuff, 250MB in non-bananas stuff, 200MB in screenshots, 750MB in development stuff and 1.1GB in savegames
09:21:48  <NGC3982> 1.1GB of savegames?
09:22:22  <NGC3982> Many of them, or huge maps? :)
09:22:29  <LordAro> you keep development stuff in .openttd?
09:22:45  <Eddi|zuHause> grf development stuff, yes
09:22:55  <dihedral> Eddi never throws away savegames
09:23:07  <dihedral> but you should ask him how big his irc logs are :-P
09:23:19  <dihedral> oh - and peter1139 never throws away a patch :-D
09:23:28  <dihedral> but can never find them either
09:23:31  <Eddi|zuHause> that's not fair, they are compressed :)
09:23:38  <dihedral> :-)
09:23:43  <dihedral> the savegames are too
09:23:45  <peter1139> my patches are compressed too
09:25:13  * LordAro never throws away savegames either - still has some from TTD
09:25:53  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, over 1/3 of my savegame space accounts to one game
09:28:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i still have some TTO savegames, but not as many as i'd like
09:30:08  * peter1139 ponders finding his TTO media and dosbox
09:30:50  <Eddi|zuHause> openttd can load TTO savegames now :)
09:31:06  <peter1139> it's not TTO though
09:31:20  <Eddi|zuHause> make a setting!!
09:32:24  <peter1139> pretty sure that's not possible :(
09:34:49  <Eddi|zuHause> on my last TTO game i created a system how to have one-way rails
09:35:04  <Eddi|zuHause> (without one-way signals)
09:35:32  <Eddi|zuHause> it was fairly unstable though, as trains tend to turn around when they are stuck, breaking the system
09:41:16  <SamanthaD> Eddi: how did it work?
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09:55:13  <Eddi|zuHause> SamanthaD: basically by abusing the pathfinder so at the end station it would always go into the "right" track
09:55:23  <SamanthaD> aaaah, clever!
09:56:07  <SamanthaD> I'm trying to figure out how cargodist works... I'm dissatisfied that it doesn't understand unload orders
09:56:33  <Eddi|zuHause> it does, you should just combine "unload" with "no loading"
09:56:43  <SamanthaD> I want to be able to run local and express trains on the same line and not have passengers jump on the first local train that comes along
09:57:00  <SamanthaD> nono, I want to give the train orders to load but not unload
09:57:14  <SamanthaD> oh wait... I just figured out the flaw in my thingy
09:57:16  <Eddi|zuHause> that is "no unloading" then
09:57:18  <SamanthaD> *headdesks*
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09:57:38  <SamanthaD> yeah, but won't packets of cargo going to that station still load on that train?
09:57:47  <Eddi|zuHause> no
09:57:50  <SamanthaD> oh, okay
09:57:52  <SamanthaD> thanks!
09:58:05  <SamanthaD> now I feel silly :p
09:58:06  <Alberth> if it does, it's a bug, imho
09:58:30  <dihedral> if there are passengers who are at the station they want to go to... that really would be odd
09:58:57  <wakou2> Is the game shown in the spalsh screen avaiable anywhere as a saved game?
09:59:12  <Eddi|zuHause> wakou2: yes, rename opntitle.dat to .sav
09:59:29  <wakou2> :) TY
09:59:32  <SamanthaD> point is, I want to run trains on parallel tracks that go through, say, stations A -> B -> C -> D but one of the trains goes directly from A -> D
09:59:43  <SamanthaD> I don't want passengers jumping on the "local" train to go from A -> D
09:59:50  <peter1139> hmm, gt610 runs minecraft well enough
09:59:56  <peter1139> despite being slow 'n stuff
10:00:09  <Eddi|zuHause> wakou2: you can also put any of your savegames as the opening screen that way, but it can't have NewGRFs loaded
10:01:29  <Eddi|zuHause> SamanthaD: usually you drown in passengers anyway
10:01:41  <MNIM> sounds cruel
10:02:29  <SamanthaD> Eddi: Yeah, but I'd rather not have my local trains clogged up with express passengers and I'd rather not have my express trains starved from local trains
10:02:45  <SamanthaD> I'm playing Dutch Trainset 2 and metro trains can hold about 2x the people as normal trains
10:06:26  <wakou2> Eddi|zuHause:  Thanks for that! I don't why I want to do it, but I am very pleased that I can!
10:07:34  <Eddi|zuHause> wakou2: we occasionally run competitions on which savegame should be the next title game :)
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10:24:28  <krinn> hi
10:25:23  <krinn> do you know if someone has made wagons that are unusuable with a train engine when refit to this but usable refit as that?
10:25:58  <krinn> (assuming the train can pull this & that)
10:26:10  <SamanthaD> most engines can pull any wagon
10:26:21  <SamanthaD> with the exception of some EMU and DMUs in various NewGRFs
10:27:56  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: the xUSSR set may have some crazy stuff like that :p
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10:29:27  <V453000> hm I guess attach logic can be decided by cargo type? :D
10:30:06  <SamanthaD> krinn: were you planning on making a GRF that does that?
10:30:10  <Eddi|zuHause> ... or by moon phase :p
10:30:20  <krinn> SamanthaD, lol no
10:30:49  <SamanthaD> I'm going to have to check out this xUSSR set
10:31:02  <krinn>
10:31:23  <SamanthaD> yup, I have to wait for my OpenTTD to recompile though
10:31:51  <SamanthaD> it crashed but I think it might have been due to some crazy mods I made to it
10:32:04  <krinn> ok so it's safe to assume a wagon usable with train X will be ok even if refit
10:32:17  <SamanthaD> yup
10:34:49  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: it's probably ok, but you might want some fallback mechanism for when it really breaks
10:35:12  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: also, attaching and then refitting, or refitting and then attaching might yield different results
10:35:41  <Eddi|zuHause> like, the DBSetXL has some refit options that are only avaiable when attached to a certain engine
10:36:01  <krinn> i have it, record any wagon as compatible, on failure clear it from the list...
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10:37:57  <krinn> it's amazing newGRF author never do any documentation !
10:39:55  <Alberth> how much documentation do you do?
10:40:21  <Eddi|zuHause> the DBSetXL has a moderately comprehensive readme
10:40:26  <krinn> no much just the one that says : this is special
10:41:39  <Eddi|zuHause> it also has a bug when wagon speed limits are disabled, the cargo wagons disappear in the late game :p
10:41:46  <Alberth> krinn: just like newgrf authors thus :)
10:42:32  <krinn> look at 2CC trainset v2.0.0 beta 5
10:42:38  <krinn> no readme :)
10:43:28  <krinn> ah ok it says check readme for parameters, so he might have just forget to include it or openttd doesn't see it's readme as one
10:44:35  <LordAro> latter is quite likely - iirc that version is before ottd could view readmnes
10:47:21  <Aristide> Hi everybody )
10:47:25  <planetmaker> <krinn> no much just the one that says : this is special  <-- it's generally assumed by "realistic" sets that you know the entire history ;-)
10:47:25  <Aristide> :)
10:48:37  <SamanthaD> glee!! I didn't need to patch the game!
10:48:41  <krinn> planetmaker, at least i understand that point
10:49:18  <SamanthaD> cargo avoids trains that have more stops between the beginning and end of their paths
10:50:06  <krinn> planetmaker, lol but how player knows it's a realistic set if not wrote anywhere ?
10:50:31  <planetmaker> krinn, generally every set which bears a country or company name, is realistic :-)
10:50:39  <planetmaker> to one degree or another
10:50:52  <planetmaker> which boils down to "all but very few" ;-)
10:51:52  <planetmaker> the question is whether they enforce exact consist management (and deny any consist which was not seen) or allow you to combine the single vehicles to trains like you desire
10:52:24  <SamanthaD> I prefer the latter, honestly
10:52:45  <planetmaker> Personally I find the first type rather annoying while I like the latter as it suits the game better - and still allows to limit oneself to anything which one thinks is comensumerable with history
10:52:54  <SamanthaD> though, I do like to roleplay :3
10:53:34  <krinn> i just prefer if the rule is write somewhere : i'm not against special rules : train Z work only when moon is high with wagon Y, while Y can only work if there no rain
10:54:09  <krinn> but if none tell there own rules for a set, it would imply i known all set special features to handle them
10:54:31  <krinn> and you end up here with : "anyone know if a special rule exists that does this or that"
10:56:16  <krinn> it's (for me) as dumb as making a GS (let's say nocargoal) that claim general rules (handling of cargo like it does) but nowhere in readme you see the special rule hide in it : if any player use train Z i raise cargo wish * 100
10:56:57  <krinn> that's what newGRF keep doing and why i say "no doc!"
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11:02:14  <SamanthaD> wow... this xUSSR trainset is really nice <3
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11:05:40  <Alberth> krinn: imho, it's a good sign how much the author is thinking about his users while making the set
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11:09:14  <SamanthaD> what really turns me on to a trainset is when the author includes locomotives they *KNOW* no player would ever use in a "serious" game
11:09:19  <SamanthaD> like shunting locomotives
11:10:21  <krinn> well, i've seen plenty already SamanthaD :)
11:10:55  <SamanthaD> me too
11:11:37  <krinn> look at DB310 kof II not sure if anyone will use it :P
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11:12:44  <SamanthaD> krinn: from what set?
11:12:51  <Eddi|zuHause> SamanthaD: i frequently miss "shunting" type engines for small feeder systems
11:13:00  <krinn> SamanthaD, must be 2cc
11:13:16  <SamanthaD> ah yes...
11:13:45  <SamanthaD> I use shunting engines for little "branch" lines just for the roleplay factor
11:14:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there actually existed a Köf II. only a Kö II
11:15:23  <krinn> (1st one at diesel+gas)
11:16:17  <SamanthaD> by the way, am I the only person having trouble with blinking flags in 2cc?
11:16:28  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, there do seem to exist a few Köf II
11:19:16  <krinn> i think many engines are too dumb to be usable, if you look from a country base point of view, it's ok, the country built is own engine for tech or money even poorer than what exists already. But in openttd that rule is bias, because player have access to any engine and not limited to his own country engine
11:21:28  <Eddi|zuHause> (K stands for "small engine", ö stands for "diesel powered" (opposing to b for "gasoline powered") and f stands for "hydraulic gearing" (no letter for mechanical gearing))
11:21:54  <krinn> Eddi|zuHause,
11:22:05  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, those
11:22:17  <krinn> foot brake, rebuilt into 322-324 stopped in February 1974 (love that one!)
11:22:20  <Eddi|zuHause> there's power classes I, II and III
11:22:47  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a mistranslation, it should be "finished" instad of "stopped"
11:25:28  <krinn> as i said, if not country base, that choice to build that 1974 version is dumb, by that time sure plenty better loco exist (and as openttd offer them, no play will ever use that 1974 version)
11:25:51  <krinn> grrrr s/play/player
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11:30:08  <V453000> anybody knows some maps which have height values? I need to get info on how high/low some points on the map are, with precision of idk, +-0,5m
11:32:10  <SamanthaD> of what region, V453000?
11:32:32  <V453000> czech republic - central europe
11:35:57  <SamanthaD> hmm...
11:36:00  <SamanthaD>
11:36:02  <SamanthaD> will that do ya?
11:37:36  <TrueBrain> VMAP0 ;)
11:37:56  <SamanthaD> what does VMAPO meon?
11:38:08  <peter1139> VMAP0!
11:38:30  <SamanthaD> OH!
11:38:43  <TrueBrain> vmap0 is a 90m resolution height map of the whole world
11:38:48  <SamanthaD> oh wow... this is nifty!
11:39:06  <TrueBrain> not sure if height is within 0.5m accuarcy
11:39:20  <TrueBrain> I am not sure that is even possible with modern technology
11:39:21  <TrueBrain> but okay ;)
11:40:11  <V453000> hm :)
11:40:28  <V453000> thanks anyway :P lets see what I get
11:40:38  <V453000> looks interesting to me so far
11:41:00  <SamanthaD> TrueBrain: it most certainly is possible
11:41:14  <SamanthaD> TrueBrain: and VMAP1 apparently is accurate to 0.5-2m
11:41:29  <SamanthaD> but I dunno if you can get a VMAP1 of Czech Republic
11:41:35  <Eddi|zuHause> should just put a GPS on a known triangulation point, go around with a second GPS, and compare the difference
11:41:38  * peter1139 ponders ditching his windows vista install
11:41:40  <TrueBrain> it is not possible, in fact, VMAP0 (and 1) state that they cannot do that
11:41:45  <peter1139> not sure when it lasted booted...
11:41:47  <TrueBrain> and VMAP1 is _very_ expensive
11:42:17  <krinn> peter1139, at install
11:42:17  <TrueBrain> but it is funny how you managed to contradict yourself in 2 sentences
11:42:27  <peter1139> krinn?
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11:42:46  <krinn> <peter1139> not sure when it lasted booted... <krinn> peter1139, at install
11:43:04  <peter1139> oh
11:43:05  <peter1139> no
11:43:43  <krinn> yeah i know it makes no sense :)
11:43:44  <peter1139> hmm, last updated 3 years ago
11:43:51  * krinn is getting a coffee
11:44:05  <Alberth> krinn: technically, at install, vista was not booting, since it was not installed at that time :p
11:44:08  <TrueBrain> I thought it was funny krinn :D
11:44:20  <SamanthaD> oh good god... has a postal address to write to if you want the maps
11:44:33  <Eddi|zuHause>
11:45:28  <Alberth> SamanthaD: you may receive a dead-wood copy map as well :)
11:45:57  <SamanthaD> that cat is not very smart, Eddi...
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11:47:27  <SamanthaD> speaking of animals... I'm not sleeping tonight. For the last month or so I've been hearing a lot of commotion outside my room. I investigated tonight to find three opossums, each as big as my thigh
11:47:33  <SamanthaD> they were not thrilled to have my company
11:48:20  <Eddi|zuHause> there are no oppossums in this part of the world
11:48:33  <krinn> :) got my coffee and my carambar jokes ready
11:50:30  <SamanthaD> Eddi: lucky bastard...
11:50:44  <krinn> where do you live to get opossums next to you ?
11:50:51  <SamanthaD> California
11:51:22  <SamanthaD> and we have the Virginia Opossum here, which are the biggest species
11:51:40  <krinn> i heard german got rancoun as invasive species
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11:52:25  <krinn> well, rancoon :)
11:52:33  <SamanthaD>
11:52:39  <krinn> or raccoon
11:52:39  <SamanthaD> give you an idea of their size
11:52:57  <SamanthaD> we got raccoon, too
11:53:08  <krinn> holly sh*t ! that's a baby bear size
11:53:14  <SamanthaD> I *KNOW*!
11:53:29  <Eddi|zuHause> never seen those either
11:53:32  <krinn> i was thinking it was like a big rats
11:53:47  <SamanthaD> yes, but a *REALLY* big rat
11:54:26  <krinn> Eddi|zuHause,
11:54:27  <SamanthaD> ... with really, really sharp teeth
11:54:37  <SamanthaD> and an eagerness to use them
11:55:12  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: these red spots are not anywhere close
11:56:01  <SamanthaD> how did the Raccoon get introduced?!
11:56:11  <SamanthaD> it's not like it's a little animal that can stow away on a ship
11:56:22  <krinn> no idea, wiki says two pairs introduce in 1934
11:56:30  * SamanthaD thinks exotic pets
11:56:51  <SamanthaD> I don't know why so many people think that Raccoons are small
11:56:58  <SamanthaD> they're something like the size of a medium sized dog
11:57:08  <krinn> SamanthaD, i think it was for the plet more than exotism
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11:57:19  <SamanthaD> ah! farming
11:57:19  <krinn> pelt
11:57:25  <SamanthaD> though, I have read of people keeping those things as pets
11:57:30  <SamanthaD> why is beyond me
11:57:34  <SamanthaD> they're destructive little buggers
11:57:41  <krinn> 1945 when 25 raccoons escaped from a fur farm
11:58:28  <SamanthaD> hmm... let's hope they don't adapt well to the wilderness
11:58:34  <SamanthaD> they're experts at living in cities though
11:58:42  <krinn> saw a doc about invasive species, amazing how stupid the human is, as most of them is directly done by us
11:59:06  <SamanthaD> yeah, and sometimes on purpose
11:59:27  <SamanthaD> my understanding is the mocking bird was introduced deliberately to north america
12:00:20  <planetmaker> if there was no mocking bird it would need inventing ;-)
12:00:21  <krinn> they spoke about bull toad
12:01:43  <krinn> making 25000 eggs, while common frog do 15000, and of course birds here are adapt to eat frog sized animal, not that bulltoad size : so more eggs and less chance to get eat when reaching a certain size : bulltoad is kicking out common frog from lake
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12:02:46  <SamanthaD> doesn't surprise me
12:02:58  <dihedral> is there bullfrog fighting in the bullfrog arena?
12:03:21  <SamanthaD> what would that even LOOK like?!
12:03:45  <dihedral> green and red
12:03:45  <krinn> and they spoke too about a squirrel from ussr that have 70% chance of carrying a disease for human, and it is allowed to import them as pet
12:03:49  <dihedral> more red than green
12:04:09  <dihedral> krinn, move to england :-P
12:04:13  <SamanthaD> are you bloody serious?!
12:04:55  <SamanthaD> "Meet Mr. Fluffybutt! He brings cuteness and death!"
12:05:10  <krinn> SamanthaD, oh yes, the parasite get contamined by the squirrel (that is safe carrier of the disease) and then can contamine human
12:05:38  <SamanthaD> out of curiosity, do you remember what the parasite was?
12:06:18  <Eddi|zuHause> all hail hypnotoad
12:06:20  <krinn> let me get the name in english, but a tick, it's common parasite for animals here
12:06:33  <SamanthaD> krinn: latin would work just fine
12:06:44  <krinn> then a tick :)
12:06:54  <krinn> acarian familly
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12:07:28  <krinn>
12:08:36  <krinn> so squirrel have 70% to be carrier, and any "tique" will carry it to human if bite, and they allow import it because it's a cute squirrel
12:08:54  <krinn> we're so dumb :)
12:09:09  <SamanthaD> ah
12:09:48  <SamanthaD> a tick isn't a serious threat to humans though unless they're also carrying lyme disease
12:09:52  <SamanthaD> or plague
12:12:48  <SamanthaD> I was reading in the latest Science News about the introduction of a new species of mosquito into the United States that is causing an outbreak of certain tropical diseases all over the seutheast US
12:13:01  <SamanthaD> they think it came in on used tires
12:13:10  <SamanthaD> why would ANYONE ship used tires overseas?!
12:13:40  <planetmaker> because they can
12:13:58  <SamanthaD> do we REALLY have a shortage though?!
12:16:09  <krinn> well, if they just stop doing stupid introduction, maybe unwanted ones could be tolerate as mistakes :)
12:18:23  <SamanthaD> the most destructive species, though, are hard to avoid introduction
12:18:27  <Alberth> more likely, the labour costs overseas are sufficiently lower that it is viable to ship them
12:18:28  <SamanthaD> rats, insects
12:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause> SamanthaD: garbage is generally shipped around the whole world
12:18:53  <Alberth> we ship everything around the world :)
12:18:55  <Eddi|zuHause> SamanthaD: american garbage often to southeast asia, european garbage often to africa
12:19:25  <SamanthaD> good to know we have high esteem for the third world, eh?
12:20:03  <Eddi|zuHause> some of the transports are even illegal, but they're still doing them
12:20:05  <planetmaker> it's not called garbage but recyclables
12:20:28  <planetmaker> makes all the difference in the forms ;-)
12:20:32  <SamanthaD> heh
12:20:34  <krinn> and technology does profits: if you have used tired in your country that you just cannot re-use or re-use at 20% but american have techno to re-use them at 90% ratio, here comes the used tired
12:21:11  <SamanthaD> Most "recycling" goes to the landfill...
12:21:51  <SamanthaD> I knew a deputy mayor who told me that while she was serving they had to divert almost all their recycling to the dump
12:22:01  <krinn> lol, if you don't care about ecology, you're a top country for other countries where ecology lobbyist bug them
12:22:28  <SamanthaD> ah yeah...
12:22:48  <SamanthaD> tires are one of the few things that are very recyceable though
12:22:58  <SamanthaD> retreds for the win
12:23:19  <krinn> hmmm, like france and his old vessels that we could sent to india so child can do the work for cheap
12:23:46  <NeuhNeuh> Hi !
12:23:51  <SamanthaD> hi NeuhNeuh!
12:23:57  <NeuhNeuh> SamanthaD: o/
12:24:01  <krinn> hi
12:24:06  <NeuhNeuh> Hi krinn :)
12:24:49  <NeuhNeuh> I must go to town hall
12:24:56  <SamanthaD> oh, why?
12:24:57  <NeuhNeuh> I go take the bus \o/
12:25:18  <SamanthaD> the only hotel on wheels!
12:25:22  <NeuhNeuh> For make a new ID card
12:26:12  <NeuhNeuh> Go gogo !
12:26:19  * NeuhNeuh is now OUT (yes its possible)
12:26:28  <SamanthaD> bye NeuNeu
12:27:52  * krinn think NeuhNeuh will never get it : french townhall : 9h-12h and 14h-16h opening hours : so 14h30 + bus trip, if he get past 15h : door closed
12:28:44  <SamanthaD> oh noes!
12:29:06  <krinn> lol yes, it's like 1 hour of work = 10 mins for them
12:30:29  <krinn> but i'm in south, with strong reputation of lazyness :)
12:31:07  <SamanthaD> here we make jokes about the Department of Motor Vehicles
12:31:49  <krinn> it's one that deliver license?
12:31:53  <SamanthaD> god... I'm still watching that cat try to get through the hole...
12:32:00  <SamanthaD> krinn: yeah, that's the one
12:32:32  <krinn> saw many movie that jokes about them
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12:40:35  <Eddi|zuHause> SamanthaD: that's just because you have no office for ID cards :p
12:41:18  <SamanthaD> Ha! That *IS* the office for ID cards!
12:42:38  <Eddi|zuHause> well, effectively :)
12:42:50  <krinn> well, it's easy here : 14h-16 mean better be there at 14h and it may open ~14h30 and don't try going at 15h30 they are already closed anyway
12:43:35  <SamanthaD> I don't get how our local DMV can have something like ten clerks and it STILL takes five hours to process you
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12:43:53  <krinn> they have stats that defy logic : if you think 10 workers can handle 10 customers, you're just wrong :)
12:44:01  <SamanthaD> heh
12:44:06  <SamanthaD> I think it's more like 15-20
12:44:09  <SamanthaD> they have a bunch in the back
12:44:42  <krinn> yeah, who do you think is making the coffee ?
12:45:33  <SamanthaD> heh, indeed
12:45:34  <Eddi|zuHause> in german we have the joke about "Beamtenmikado" (office-clerk mikado): whoever moves first, loses
12:45:43  <krinn> one day i saw guys at arsenal (a tiny city inside our city, yeah, where they build/repair warships) : 5 guys working
12:46:05  <SamanthaD> only five guys working on an entire ship?!
12:46:28  <krinn> 1 was on the ladder to change the lamp, 2 were making sure the ladder don't fall, and 1 was speaking with them or managing them i don't know
12:46:49  <Eddi|zuHause> that
12:46:49  <SamanthaD> oy...
12:46:52  <Eddi|zuHause> 's 4
12:47:00  <krinn> lol yes Eddi|zuHause is following
12:47:12  <Eddi|zuHause> "one carries the responsibility"
12:47:27  <SamanthaD> I figure he's inside doing the requisition paperwork
12:47:40  <Eddi|zuHause> (might be a difficult to translate pun)
12:48:17  <SamanthaD> why? it makes sense to me
12:48:32  <SamanthaD> does "responsibility" mean more than one thing in German?
12:48:33  <krinn> i had work in it when i was young, to remove paint inside a sub, guys were speaking upper while there controlling device (for radiation) was down with us, attach to a rope :)
12:49:00  <Eddi|zuHause> "carry" as in usually meaning some heavy working going on
12:49:09  <SamanthaD> Eddi: oh yeah, here too
12:49:26  <SamanthaD> Krinn: good to know you were well cared for!
12:49:30  <SamanthaD> all that radiation
12:49:39  <SamanthaD> now look at you!
12:49:47  <SamanthaD> playing with trains on a computer
12:49:51  <Eddi|zuHause> so if 9 out of 10 guys carry something heavy, and the 10th nothing at all, the joke is he "carries the responsibility"
12:50:03  <krinn> it's because when the device tell you, you have reach a certain amount, your work day is over
12:50:37  <krinn> and so, they were speaking upper with few radiation, and the device was taking his hour of exposure for them (~ an hour to reach the level)
12:51:02  <SamanthaD> ooooh! I get it now!
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12:51:57  <krinn> the entry was easy, the exit was fucking scary
12:52:07  <SamanthaD> why?
12:53:26  <krinn> you drop clothes and enter, but to exit you must enter a device, put hands, device close the door, if ok device open the  other door, if not, door stays closed and alarm ring
12:53:42  <krinn> so you endup contaminated and nude waiting in the device :)
12:54:36  <SamanthaD> eek! how do they decontaminate you?
12:54:49  <krinn> no idea, mostly bathing i think
12:54:57  <SamanthaD> ah, lucky!
12:55:20  <SamanthaD> anyone ever set off alarm while you were there?
12:55:35  <krinn> hell no!
12:55:44  <krinn> we were controlling our portable device like mad
12:56:31  <SamanthaD> my grandfather was a nuclear engineer
12:56:39  <SamanthaD> but back then they didn't really understand nuclear safety
12:56:43  <krinn> and it was hard, the guys that work in there were having digital controlling device, while we have ones that must be check with eyes and light
12:56:45  <SamanthaD> probably why our family is so screwed up
12:57:05  <krinn> ^^
12:57:23  <SamanthaD> people working in the reactor?
12:57:58  <krinn> the good part is that we were working mostly by night (because working with light increase radiation level faster), and only an hour, but get paid for 8 hours, at night price with a danger extra : huge money
12:58:16  <SamanthaD> wow...
12:58:23  <krinn> it was an attack sub (nuclear propulsion, the ruby was its name)
12:58:26  <SamanthaD> I suddenly went from "wow, shit job" to "where do I sign up?!"
12:59:05  * SamanthaD ponders
12:59:18  <SamanthaD> if you had to go through all that just to be in the sub, how the heck do they crew it?!
12:59:31  <krinn> lol and i get a month of vacancy for 20 days of work
12:59:56  <SamanthaD> you quit this job, why?
13:00:03  <krinn> it's because it was the paint that cover the walls of the reactor in the sub
13:00:11  <krinn> the part where the water is
13:00:12  <SamanthaD> ah, I see, that makes sense
13:00:46  <krinn> because it was a temp job, they need extra  guys to finish it within delays (and seeing them upper waiting, i know why they need extra guys)
13:01:13  <dihedral> SamanthaD and krinn seem to really be hitting it of :-P
13:01:41  <SamanthaD> ah, too bad
13:01:42  * Sacro is confused by the scrollback
13:02:14  <SamanthaD> dihedral: I like this channel!
13:02:15  <Alberth> just scroll back to where the scrollback srtarted?
13:05:03  <Sacro> I don't know who's who these days
13:05:06  <SamanthaD> I've never done any particularly dangerous jobs
13:05:21  <SamanthaD> the most dangerous thing I've done for money is basically wade through antifreeze
13:05:39  <Sacro> @seen Bjarni
13:05:39  <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 42 weeks, 3 days, 12 hours, 46 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
13:05:45  <Sacro> pssh
13:05:56  <krinn> that was the only dangerous one i've made (except maybe keeping my nieve)
13:06:17  <SamanthaD> The antifreeze was for use in fire sprinklers
13:06:44  <SamanthaD> I hate to think the mess those things would make spraying that gooey sludge all over the place
13:07:35  <peter1139> this spongekeyboard is horrible after using my clicky keyboard for a while
13:08:54  <krinn> SamanthaD, it looks funny when you don't own responsability for it
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13:11:10  <SamanthaD> They put antifreeze in the sprinklers over entryways. They told us it's so they don't freeze if the door is left open. I suspect they did it because making the floor slippery by the exit in an emergency is funny.
13:12:19  <SamanthaD> When I was in school our building's fire alarm would go off every time it rained. Once we had a fire and it didn't go off.
13:12:46  <krinn> nice techno there :D
13:13:02  <SamanthaD> I know! A light fixture shorted out
13:13:04  <SamanthaD> but we were okay
13:13:25  <SamanthaD> it just happens that my city college was also the county's firefighter training camp ;)
13:13:59  <krinn> that's school, one day they were making a fire simulation, just to see all exits were closed (because closing them prevent anyone from entering, but lol prevent anyone from getting out too)
13:14:17  <SamanthaD> are you serious?!
13:14:22  <krinn> lol yes
13:14:23  <SamanthaD> OH!
13:14:32  <SamanthaD> you mean fire doors with automatic closures!
13:14:54  <krinn> it wasn't firedoor specially
13:15:08  <krinn> they changed them so inside you have a way to open it while outside no way
13:15:19  <SamanthaD> ah
13:15:38  <SamanthaD> I guess that makes sense until you realize that firefighters are people, too
13:15:52  <krinn> previous doors were locked by keys, so if no teacher was there to open them : everyone burn :)
13:16:04  <SamanthaD> that's scary
13:16:35  <SamanthaD> even if there was a teacher, people would pile against the door and the teacher wouldn't be able to get to it
13:17:41  <krinn> hopefuly we never had to test for real
13:18:34  <peter1139> well no, that's a not a test ;p
13:18:36  <peter1139> -a
13:19:43  <SamanthaD> my teachers got so used to the false alarms they would actually continue to lecture until they got to a good break point
13:20:43  <krinn> it's like the maps that should be there to help finding exit. They are generally made of plastic : so when fire is there, look at the platic map to find the exit :P
13:21:11  <SamanthaD> follow the exit signs!
13:21:25  <SamanthaD> I really want a tritium exit sign to hang in my room
13:21:30  <krinn> we don't have that exit sign rule in france
13:21:57  <SamanthaD> you should make it then!
13:22:05  <SamanthaD> though... sometimes our exit signs lead toward dead-ends >.>
13:22:30  <krinn> we should have a map showing the complex, exits and stuff to fight fire
13:22:40  <Alberth> a big heavy brick to smash your window works too :p
13:22:51  <krinn> but the map is always in plastic, so better read the map while no fire is there
13:22:59  <SamanthaD> yup
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13:23:17  <krinn> Alberth, to introduce a good amount of fresh air for your fire ?
13:23:29  <SamanthaD> in school we were taught to punch out the window through our jackets
13:23:46  <SamanthaD> but they also told us to drink from toilet tanks in case of earthquake
13:23:54  <SamanthaD> so... I'm not entirely sure that advice was sound
13:24:03  <krinn> lol drink toilet tanks!
13:24:06  <SamanthaD> yup!
13:24:16  <SamanthaD> apparently the water there is "clean"
13:24:27  <SamanthaD> but last time I looked in my toilet tank it certainly wasn't clean <.<
13:24:32  <Alberth> if you get in that situation, you'll be happy with any water, I guess
13:24:34  <krinn> do they suggest eating your neighbor too ?
13:24:57  <SamanthaD> best be prepared
13:25:12  <SamanthaD> every Californian should own a decent size bottle of iodine
13:25:24  <SamanthaD> with enough iodine you could drink from a sewer
13:26:20  <krinn> well, i prefer having a fish tank next to me
13:26:40  <SamanthaD> earthquake is likely to destroy the tank, though
13:26:58  <krinn> ah yes
13:27:26  <krinn> but i don't think the earthquake will be so long that you must drink or die
13:27:58  <SamanthaD> it's not so much that the earthquake is long it's that the earthquake destroys the city's water supply and roads and such
13:28:00  <planetmaker> if the earthquake destroys sufficiently much of the infrastructure, drinking water can become a very scarce comodity
13:28:16  <planetmaker> comodity? resource
13:28:17  <SamanthaD> yup
13:28:48  <SamanthaD> and if you live in the wrong part of the city you could be isolated and without a water supply for as long as a month
13:29:05  <planetmaker> well. you got legs to walk on ;-)
13:29:08  <planetmaker> hopefully
13:29:20  <SamanthaD> I have a friend who lives in the hills
13:29:34  <krinn> planetmaker, i would say, better count on them, seeing how they do with catrina
13:29:35  <Twofish> Everyone in #openttd is gonna freak out now, and fill up their home, car and an emergency backup location with plastic bottles of water, and iodine in case of nuclear polution...
13:29:36  <SamanthaD> there are TWO roads connecting her little town to anyone else
13:30:02  <SamanthaD> Twofish: nono, the iodine is for making water with
13:31:12  <krinn> SamanthaD, sun can also do that too, i've seen that with the guys that keep going in weird place with a rope and a knife
13:31:30  <SamanthaD> the sun can't disinfect water...
13:31:48  <krinn> that's what he said, got hot water, but good to drink
13:32:06  <SamanthaD> hmm... I don't trust it
13:32:21  <SamanthaD> I trust my iodinated water
13:32:23  <krinn> i'll google that
13:32:30  <SamanthaD> it's NOT very nice to drink though
13:32:35  <Twofish> SamanthaD:
13:32:51  <krinn>
13:33:49  <Twofish> SamanthaD: me not knowing the difference between ionide and iodide
13:33:55  <Twofish> Norwegian... :/
13:34:46  <krinn> nor me Twofish but as a french i avoid saying it to let people thinks all french are smart
13:34:56  <Twofish> iodine / iodide ... hard this :p
13:35:03  <SamanthaD> I think ionide is a typo?
13:35:17  <SamanthaD> OH!
13:35:18  <SamanthaD> I get the question
13:35:30  <SamanthaD> iodine is the element, iodide is the ion
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13:36:31  <krinn> 15h35 got your ID or it was closed ?
13:36:55  <SamanthaD> he's back too soon to have waded though a government office
13:37:09  <krinn> lmao SamanthaD
13:37:12  <Twofish> Still, iodide can help you protect yourself against radiation. In Norway we don't have any large nuclear plants, but with short way to Russia ...
13:37:45  <SamanthaD> yeah, because your thalamus sucks up iodine like nobody's business
13:37:56  <SamanthaD> problem is, a lot of isotopes of iodine are radioactive
13:38:10  <SamanthaD> so, you want to saturate your thalamus with safe iodine before you absorb the contaminated stuff
13:38:30  <Twofish> :)
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13:38:53  <krinn> don't worry tchernobyl never reach us Twofish and why our women here have all those thyroid problem cannot be because of it
13:39:03  <Twofish> My mother ate those when she were pregnant, due to the Tsjernobyl accident.
13:39:38  <SamanthaD> speaking of eating and radiation
13:39:45  <SamanthaD> you gotta love uranium pottery glaze
13:39:48  <Twofish> We still can messure the effects in natures radioation levels
13:41:03  <SamanthaD>
13:41:05  <Twofish> Norways problem is that we didn't do regular radiation messurements before Tsjernobyl
13:41:09  <SamanthaD> don't eat off of plates that color
13:41:14  <SamanthaD> but keep the plate
13:41:20  <SamanthaD> it's a valuable collectible
13:41:44  <Twofish> Se the tables. Tsjernobyl were in 86.
13:42:11  <Twofish> Meassured in wild reindeer
13:42:30  <krinn> upto +12500 ?
13:42:54  <SamanthaD> I wonder how they settle on reindeer as a metric...
13:43:22  <Twofish> lol... Probably just because that meat get in - so it is easy to do mass meassurement.
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13:43:33  <andythenorth> o/
13:43:47  <SamanthaD> hey andythenorth!
13:43:56  <krinn> hi andythenorth
13:44:05  <NeuhNeuh> :)
13:44:08  <NeuhNeuh> Hi andythenorth :)
13:44:16  <Twofish> Out Sivil Defence do meassurements in the nature "all the time", so now we have regular data.
13:44:48  <Alberth> o/ andy
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14:06:45  <LordAro>
14:06:54  *** namad8 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:07:35  <SamanthaD> haha
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14:08:16  * SamanthaD jumps up and down proclaiming the virtues of functional programming style
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17:06:40  * Xaroth|Work pokes TWerkhoven
17:07:51  <__ln__> zomg, i paid 5 euros with a credit card in germany
17:08:25  <Eddi|zuHause> how dare you!
17:11:58  <Belugas> lucky you, you cold use your credit card ;)
17:12:01  <Belugas> could
17:12:04  <dihedral> __ln__, hehe what did you buy for 5 eur?
17:12:10  <dihedral> BELUGAS :-)
17:12:16  <dihedral> how are you? how was you trip?
17:12:24  <Belugas> hello dihedral :)
17:12:33  <dihedral> and how was your significant other's reaction? :-D
17:12:43  <Belugas> way better then the first one
17:13:01  <Belugas> she was really pleased seeing me coming IN TIME!
17:13:19  <Belugas> and my son was sooo trilled!
17:13:21  <dihedral> well - at least that is good :-)
17:13:22  <__ln__> dihedral: "flughafen feuerwehr-simulator", mac version :)
17:13:32  <Belugas> i arrvied soone enough nopt to catch him in bed
17:13:32  <dihedral> lol
17:13:55  <dihedral> Belugas, glad to hear :-)
17:14:08  <dihedral> so your trip back home went as planned i take it
17:14:19  * TWerkhoven pokes Xaroth|Work
17:14:28  <Belugas> quite indeed :)
17:14:54  <Belugas> i had a very good time visiting Amsterdam with Rubidium, then not to wait too long at the gates
17:15:01  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: happen to have the code that triggers it (without the .configure() call ofc)
17:15:08  <Xaroth|Work> I'll poke around on my server to reproduce
17:15:15  <Xaroth|Work> Belugas: you were in amsterdam
17:15:20  <Belugas> all was fine.  slept a long time in plane too
17:15:20  <Xaroth|Work> and you didn't come have a beer?
17:15:22  <Xaroth|Work> pffffff
17:15:23  <Belugas> yup
17:15:32  <TWerkhoven> :)
17:15:38  <dihedral> he did have a beer
17:15:38  <Belugas> well... i was not in a state of mind to have a beer...
17:15:42  <Rubidium> Xaroth|Work: but you were at work ;)
17:15:43  <dihedral> just with the right people :-P
17:15:44  <Belugas> had enough in germany ;)
17:15:56  <TWerkhoven> self.connection.send_packet(AdminPoll, pollType = 0x01, extra = 0xFFFFFFFF)
17:15:59  <Belugas> yeah dihedral :D
17:16:10  <Xaroth|Work> Rubidium: I can just inform the boss I have to go to the DC
17:16:17  <Xaroth|Work> which is awkwardly close to amsterdam
17:16:52  <TWerkhoven> first packet after sending that always comes back with that error, clients connected or not
17:16:57  <dihedral> or you could have visited germany too
17:17:01  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: rgr
17:17:15  <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: too far drive for me
17:17:44  <Rubidium> Xaroth|Work: really bull... even Belugas could make it
17:17:49  <TWerkhoven> and that packet is for requesting clientinfo on all clients, which i need to find out which client id belongs to which ingame-nick
17:17:50  <dihedral> ... drive to the dc and have Rubidium and TrueBrain and Belugas take you with them
17:18:12  <dihedral> TWerkhoven, i read you are having issues with the admin network
17:18:16  <dihedral> how can i help
17:18:41  <TrueBrain> is Xaroth now really complaining Belguas didnt have a beer with him, while Xaroth was too lazy of a bumb to join the meet? Pfffttt
17:18:49  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: reproduced, fixing now
17:19:29  <dihedral> TrueBrain, in essence, yeah
17:19:48  <Belugas> hehehe
17:19:49  <dihedral> actually, though, he is saying that he wanted to only meet Belugas and not the rest of us
17:20:04  <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: work <=> amsterdam: 20 minutes , work <=> planetmaker: 4+ hours
17:20:06  <TWerkhoven> not really issues with the admin network (yet), just some corner case that libottdadmin didnt account for yet
17:20:19  <Belugas> loving whale freak...
17:20:28  <dihedral> Xaroth|Work, and how long do you think i was driving to get to planetmaker's?
17:20:32  <Belugas> Well... when you have such a nice personality as mine... cough cough
17:21:06  <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: and how many days off from work do you have? ;)
17:21:15  <Xaroth|Work> I'm at -2
17:21:26  <dihedral> Xaroth|Work, i did not need a single
17:21:38  <Xaroth|Work> I would have
17:21:45  <Rubidium> apparantly Xaroth|Work works saturdays and sundays
17:21:54  <Xaroth|Work> Rubidium: saturdays occasionally, yes
17:22:03  <dihedral> occasionally - there you have it :-P
17:22:04  <Xaroth|Work> and every weekend stand-by service.
17:22:16  <dihedral> Xaroth|Work, get a better job :-D
17:22:21  <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: pay me.
17:22:44  <dihedral> how much
17:23:10  <Belugas> 2 beer / hour
17:23:24  <dihedral> hehe - that's cheaper than the indians :-D
17:23:27  <Xaroth|Work> I'm not going to work for minimum wage :P
17:23:40  <dihedral> Xaroth|Work, we have a branch office in NL
17:23:40  <Belugas> hugh!
17:23:46  <dihedral> and i can do with a second admin
17:24:17  <dihedral> or move to germany - we have enough english speakers in the team
17:24:19  <Eddi|zuHause> <__ln__> dihedral: "flughafen feuerwehr-simulator", mac version :) <-- i hope it's not the BER edition :p
17:24:29  <TrueBrain> big assumption, that "english speaker" part
17:24:31  <TrueBrain> *troll*
17:24:34  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, they'd have nothing to do :-D
17:24:52  <dihedral> TrueBrain, well - english-ish
17:25:33  <dihedral> developers from india, turky, germany, cz, ...
17:25:42  <dihedral> a brit in the consulting team ...
17:25:56  <TWerkhoven> lol
17:27:18  <Xaroth|Work> brits can't speak english, no :P
17:27:48  <TWerkhoven> i've often been commented on that my english is better than the natives
17:28:16  <Xaroth|Work> I've been commented for talking better english than brits ... so imagine how crappy their english is.
17:28:44  <TWerkhoven> i mightve gotten worse since i started living here
17:28:54  <TWerkhoven> definately have a bit of a scots thing going on now
17:29:52  <Xaroth|Work> right, indeed, annoying corner-case
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17:31:18  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: pushing
17:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause> there was this comedian i heard recently, he went like "when i moved to germany, the people told me 'you'll be immersed in people speaking german, you learn the language in no time. -- no you're not. you're immersed in people speaking english, wis a german akzent. i'm fluent with my german accent now."
17:32:40  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: for reference, in such cases the lib now returns datetime.min
17:33:16  <TWerkhoven> thats good enough for me
17:33:21  <TWerkhoven> should only be server anyway
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17:34:07  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: also, you should have bought the game in austria, there you could have gotten the uncensored bloody version :p
17:35:36  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: also, I'll introduce some more enums at some point for the poll requests
17:38:36  <TWerkhoven> :)
17:40:14  <dihedral> TrueBrain, i was fighting with trying to get my memories linked.... you remind me of a colleague i used to have in the UK
17:40:43  <dihedral> also a very talented Sys Op :-)
17:40:52  <Xaroth|Work> and a complete BOFH ?
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17:41:12  <dihedral> i think that is just asking for a reaction :-P
17:41:47  <Xaroth|Work> it's not really like he needs to confirm something we already know
17:41:48  <Xaroth|Work> I mean...
17:44:27  <Eddi|zuHause> he used to be much worse :p
17:45:02  <TWerkhoven> fix works
17:45:25  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25635 /trunk/src/lang (estonian.txt japanese.txt) (2013-07-30 17:45:17 UTC)
17:45:26  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:27  <DorpsGek> estonian - 231 changes by KSiimson
17:45:28  <DorpsGek> japanese - 2 changes by guppy
17:46:09  <TrueBrain> will be posting on tt-forums soon, but for the early birds:
17:49:00  * dihedral reads
17:49:39  <TWerkhoven> quick q about adminport. frame in various packets should relate to ticks or some form of time passed, am i right?
17:49:54  <Xaroth|Work> the command log ones?
17:50:09  <TWerkhoven> yes
17:50:29  <Xaroth|Work> that's the frame as per used by the networking system of openttd
17:51:03  <Xaroth|Work> it's a form of time indication, but I'm not sure as per frequency or whatever
17:51:08  <TWerkhoven> ah, so unrelated to frame as shown in openttd commandline-console
17:51:51  <Xaroth|Work> actually, might be related
17:52:33  <Xaroth|Work> looks about the same thing
17:53:20  <TWerkhoven> when building something, the servercmdlogging always show frame to be 32
17:53:39  <TWerkhoven> joining and then starting a new company show other values for frame
17:53:49  <Xaroth|Work> hm
17:54:06  <TWerkhoven> i've not looked too much into the content of the packets yet it has to be said
17:54:15  <TWerkhoven> just something i found odd
17:54:55  <dihedral> TrueBrain, "once a server validated them, they become invalid." < - Why
17:55:22  <Xaroth|Work> one-time-keys
17:55:25  <TrueBrain> a ticket is a one-time ticket
17:55:28  <TrueBrain> not a multiple-time ticket
17:55:45  <TrueBrain> like an entry ticket to a rollercoaster
17:55:49  <TrueBrain> you cannot reuse it
17:56:10  <Alberth> TB can come as often as he likes in FreeRCT parks!
17:57:11  <LordAro> :D
18:01:44  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: i get 32 as well :o
18:05:43  <scshunt> what about freerct?
18:06:29  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: from what I get data-wise, it -is- always 32
18:06:56  <Xaroth|Work> except once or twice
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18:14:36  <Eddi|zuHause> we hate freerct, it's a competing project!! :p
18:14:44  <LordAro> scshunt: what about it?
18:20:07  <scshunt> I know about it
18:20:15  <scshunt> 's about it
18:22:15  <TWerkhoven> Xaroth|Work: maybe it gives the game-frame for certain operations (eg company creation) and frames-to-execute-this-packet for any actual construction works (this might mean there are 32 frames per tick?)
18:23:27  <Xaroth|Work> probably
18:23:29  <TWerkhoven> as i know theres a 1tick delay in some places so that all clients have a chance to receive and execute said command
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18:30:17  <frosch123> dihedral: who is the goldfish?
18:34:47  * krinn has put socks on after loosing 2 litters of blood offer to mosquito's God
18:35:07  <Belugas> better yet... what's that stuff about goldfish???
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18:37:35  <dihedral> I will not risk my ass just to answer your question, frosch123 :-P
18:37:54  <frosch123> ok, tell belugas in private :p
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18:39:53  <dihedral> done
18:40:40  <dihedral> TrueBrain, did you check the openssl bindings?
18:54:08  <krinn> those stupid newGRF non-sense, took me time to see that ! you cannot attach X to Y, but you can attach Y to X
18:55:59  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25636 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2013-07-30 18:55:52 UTC)
18:56:00  <DorpsGek> -Fix: invalidate last_loading_station when stopping in depot
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18:57:28  <Wolf01> hello
18:58:14  <Wolf01> accidents, what are you doing... accidents... stahp! :(
18:58:18  <krinn> hello
18:59:34  <Xaroth|Work> Wolf01: what did you blow up this time?
19:00:23  <Wolf01> nah, I meant the latest 3 transportation accidents
19:04:03  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25637 trunk/src/linkgraph/linkgraphjob.cpp (2013-07-30 19:03:56 UTC)
19:04:04  <DorpsGek> -Fix: don't keep minimal routing information if automatic distribution has been disabled
19:06:44  <Eddi|zuHause> or 4? or 5?
19:07:23  <V453000> yes
19:08:07  <Eddi|zuHause> did they actually find out the cause of the one in france?
19:08:22  <Rubidium> some piece of metal was missing in the switch
19:08:47  <Eddi|zuHause> so it was not locked in place properly?
19:09:37  <Rubidium> not sure. I can't remember (or rather can't remember having heard) the piece that was actually missing
19:10:11  <Rubidium> if it was the guard rail, then the switch could have been locked
19:11:26  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a fairly serious train vs. car accident a few weeks back in germany
19:11:58  <Eddi|zuHause> where the crossing was only guarded by a light, not by a barrier, and the train (DMU) approached at high speed
19:12:11  <Eddi|zuHause> like 140km/h
19:12:36  <Eddi|zuHause> they now made these trains go slow, and sound the horn, which immediately annoyed the people living there
19:13:12  <Rubidium> yup... the switch was locked
19:13:21  <krinn> it's an eclipse (piece to attach two rails with each other)
19:13:21  <Rubidium>
19:13:38  <krinn> that jump out of rail and goes put itself within a crossing point
19:14:36  <krinn> yeah eclisse not eclipse :)
19:16:14  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:18:54  <krinn> sncf says it just a material problem, well, better read it as "not our fault", eclisse should be control (and are in theory), so clearly like all accidents : bad piece (material, not well fixed...) + bad control + bad luck = accident
19:20:02  <krinn> but even without the bad luck the piece jump to that point, two rails attach by one eclisse would have gave awful result soon or later
19:20:59  <Rubidium> or they just don't look at them often enough
19:21:08  <krinn> but in france (like many countries i suppose) : responsibility = money, better says it's material so
19:21:34  <krinn> Rubidium, totally right, less control === more money
19:21:50  <Rubidium> actually, better checking => more control => lower costs
19:22:09  <Eddi|zuHause> but... how can 4 screws go loose simultaneously, at a switch that was subject to maintenance recently?
19:22:40  <Xaroth|Work> same way BP Deep Horizon happened
19:22:40  <krinn> well, less control to some point gave a good result, but at a totally out of control point, it gave poorer
19:22:42  <Xaroth|Work> bad maintenance
19:22:43  <Xaroth|Work> bad control
19:24:04  <krinn> and if you see how are the screws, you automatically knows they really abuse
19:25:08  <krinn>
19:25:30  <krinn> this is the piece that lost its screws
19:25:31  <Rubidium> those joints shouldn't get that much abuse. If they get a lot of abuse, then the track isn't laid right
19:26:16  *** tycoondemon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:26:27  <krinn> you can even see in the picture some screws are more tight than others :P
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19:29:20  <krinn> and so for sncf : the piece lost its screws after last control and while the train was going on... Must be why they never tell "when" was that last control
19:29:41  <krinn> hi Zuu
19:30:37  <Zuu> Hello
19:39:46  <Zuu> IIRC, here trains must use the horn before they pass a railway crossing w/o barrier. It may also be true for some/all crossings with a barrier.
19:41:44  <krinn> we don't have many crossing w/o barrier, but i suppose horn & slow speed should be the rule (except if you want crush some cars)
19:42:39  <krinn> but i know they horn before station :)
19:43:27  <krinn> i have a small station here, and tgv pass it (but don't stop at it) and they horn to warn people (the station rails are even incline so it could pass fast)
19:44:04  <krinn> it's boring when you take a train that stop at it, as the wagon is real high compare to ground because of the inclination
19:48:54  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a difference between "not technically secured crossings" and "technically secured crossings", where this one counted as "technically secured" because it has a light
19:49:36  <Eddi|zuHause> the car driver claimed she couldn't see the light because of the sun
19:49:55  <Eddi|zuHause> (by some miracle she survived with heavy injuries)
19:50:15  <Rubidium> doesn't not seeing the light imply it being red?
19:50:52  <krinn> not for women :D
19:51:05  * krinn hides
19:51:05  <Rubidium> so Darwin 1-0
19:51:12  <Eddi|zuHause> kinda. the rule is even if the light is off, you should approach slowly and check if a train is coming
19:51:30  <Rubidium> oh, there is no light saying it's safe-ish?
19:51:34  <dihedral> blast - i spent the last hour chasing why a overriding method was not called, just to find out it was called, but the api used catches "Exception" without any output ... grrr
19:52:11  <Eddi|zuHause> (but if the light doesn't work, the train has to stop before the crossing)
19:52:12  <krinn> Rubidium, only light saying watchout or watchout even more
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20:18:51  <krinn> anyone have some odd newGRF feature (for trains/wagon/tracks) in mind i could look at ?
20:19:11  <Rubidium> action 6
20:19:32  <krinn> can you tell me what this do ?
20:19:53  <Rubidium> I rather not talk dirty in this channel
20:19:56  <krinn> i know 0 about newGRF action or the like, only as noai see it
20:21:05  <krinn> i see, modifie contents of sprite ? isn't that just graphic ?
20:21:46  <Rubidium> rather everything but the graphics
20:22:52  <krinn> gave us the actionE to noai :)
20:27:23  <krinn> well, this newGRF doc is good to make newGRF not to discover what people has made with that
20:29:19  <krinn> action0 property 18 is ?
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20:30:26  <krinn> forget last query, i see openttd don't use it
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20:32:57  <Eddi|zuHause> "action 0 property X" is incomplete without "feature y"
20:33:35  <krinn> must be 0 0 18
20:33:41  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: evil thing for AI is probably brake wagons
20:33:44  <krinn> but it's ok i saw openttd don't use it
20:33:59  <krinn> any newgrf i could see with it ?
20:34:20  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, the few i would immediately think of said they disable this for AI
20:34:40  <krinn> ah good, not affecting me so
20:34:41  <Eddi|zuHause> which is a feature that might be removed in the future, though
20:34:55  <Eddi|zuHause> (the being able to check whether it's an AI)
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20:35:40  <krinn> i was thinking the wagonX only use with trainY was the worst until i saw that trainY cannot be attach to trainZ, but you can do trainZ with trainY
20:36:09  <krinn> what a dumb feature, looks more like a bug than anything
20:36:11  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, attaqchment is neither symmetric nor transitive
20:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause> attachment rules are stupid, i don't use them
20:38:14  <Eddi|zuHause> you can attach an ICE3 to a BR01 for all i care...
20:38:22  <krinn> just like this stupid one, it looks ok on paper : autoattach wagon when create to a train
20:38:54  <krinn> without the newgrf openttd create the train, and the wagon, and you move it then, but that newGRF change that and automove it
20:39:28  <Eddi|zuHause> that has nothing to do with newgrfs
20:39:39  <Eddi|zuHause> it worked like this in the original game already
20:40:08  <Eddi|zuHause> have only 1 engine in depot, create wagon -> automatically attach wagon to train
20:40:14  <krinn> well, dunno, it doesn't do that with stock openttd
20:40:25  <Eddi|zuHause> have only wagons in depot, create 1 engine -> automatically attach wagons to train
20:40:38  <krinn> not as AI
20:41:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i never made an AI
20:41:05  <krinn> create train, create wagon : both remain alone
20:41:14  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it's a bug
20:41:48  <Eddi|zuHause> like, feature was disabled in one code path, but not the other
20:42:21  <frosch123> i would think it's intentionally disabled for ais
20:42:27  <krinn> well, with 2cc it do that, without it doesn't
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20:43:13  <krinn> :o i should recheck that, maybe i only see wagons that cannot be attach
20:44:19  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, that was kinda my thought
20:44:35  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: maybe make a testcase and report it
20:44:47  <krinn> i'm adding some break after wagon creation to see
20:45:31  <frosch123> [22:40] <Eddi|zuHause> have only wagons in depot, create 1 engine -> automatically attach wagons to train <- is that actually the case?
20:46:02  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it used to be, but there was some reshuffling with free wagon chains, not sure if that still works
20:46:05  <krinn> no frosch123 it work for new wagon, not train
20:46:18  <frosch123> anyway, commands should not behave differently for ais depending on whether there is one or two engines in the depot
20:46:29  <frosch123> the auto-attach is a gui feature for humans, not for ais
20:46:49  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the use case is: sell engine -> get free wagon chain, immediately buy a new engine -> automatically attach
20:48:11  <frosch123> ah, it does indeed both for humans
20:48:21  <frosch123> though with different methods
20:48:27  <krinn> just tried : it doesn't autoattach them, my mistake, i was moving them too fast
20:48:51  <Eddi|zuHause> it used to be annoying if you had leftover wagons in the depot. then it would attach all wagons, not just the ones you just freed. not sure if that changed
20:49:28  <krinn> well, as ai i prefer the current never attach state
20:49:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. that makes sense for AIs
20:50:36  <frosch123> hmm, i don't see where it is prevented for ais
20:50:46  <frosch123> i see it for the build wagon case, but not for the build engine case
20:51:18  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that's what i suspected. one case might be treated different than the other
20:54:24  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: btw, I'd love to see what you're building.
20:55:05  <Eddi|zuHause> if you build it, they will come
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21:01:41  <krinn> really there's that race condition that cannot be avoid
21:01:52  <krinn> build wagons : save : load you're dead
21:03:19  <krinn> it's then impossible to get the id of the wagons as no functions exist for that, and loosing the id by save/load : so long the wagons, the ai cannot find them (and so remove/move/attach...)
21:05:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't really help you with that
21:06:40  <krinn> i'm trying my last trick to get them to see
21:07:21  <TrueBrain> dihedral: openssl is a nogo because of license issues (ask Debian about details)
21:08:28  <krinn> i'll open a ticket for that, they really are lost
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21:13:08  <dihedral> TrueBrain, and how do you then want to communicate over https only?
21:13:21  <TrueBrain> gnutls
21:13:34  <TrueBrain> its not like there is only a single possible implementation of SSL / TLS
21:13:40  <TrueBrain> more people tend to write the same software
21:13:54  <Xaroth|Work>
21:13:58  <Xaroth|Work> ^ relevant xkcd
21:14:27  <TrueBrain> semi-relevant; the standard is still the same
21:14:31  <TrueBrain> only the implementation differs :D
21:14:39  <Xaroth|Work> true
21:16:20  <dihedral> good to know :-)
21:17:47  <planetmaker> michi_cc, so I need a new(er) ICU to compile your patch queue?
21:18:42  <planetmaker> I have installed icu 4.8.1 but get a linking error with "ld: library not found for -licudata-licule"
21:19:47  <michi_cc> planetmaker: That looks more like an error in either icu-config or our config.lib. I would guess that should read "-licudata -licule" as the libraries are called libicudata and libicule.
21:20:24  <michi_cc> And besides, icule is for the layout engine, which Rb already added to trunk :)
21:20:33  <NGC3982> Are you guys familiar with xt9 on smaller Android tabs?
21:21:18  <planetmaker> right. Let's see
21:37:52  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:44:28  <planetmaker> hm, I don't exactly find anywhere where those LDFLAGS are added...
21:45:17  <planetmaker> getting late, though
21:45:27  <planetmaker> a new look at a new day might work wonders :-)
21:46:04  <michi_cc> planetmaker: config.log around line 1719. There's even a comment about missing or not missing spaces.
21:47:36  <michi_cc> Either you have yet another variant or whatever tr is in your path is some weired BSD special version.
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21:49:52  <planetmaker> the "compatibility" section of the man page talks of "previous FreeBSD versions..." :D
21:53:55  <planetmaker> michi_cc, put each icu_config --ldflags-XXX into its own command call
21:54:01  <planetmaker> don't chain them in one
21:54:44  <michi_cc> Don't look at me, I touched exactly zero characters there :)
21:55:20  <planetmaker>
21:55:40  <planetmaker> right... let's see. Then I guess I will commit and go to bed :-)
21:57:47  <planetmaker> well then :-)
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22:03:42  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25638 /trunk (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-30 22:03:36 UTC)
22:03:43  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25470): Some icu_config are too stupid to separate two ldflags by spaces, thus only call it with one
22:03:52  <planetmaker> ups...
22:04:02  <planetmaker> that was more than intended
22:04:29  <planetmaker> but that's alright, I guess
22:04:50  <glx> some icu_config don't even work without manual tweaking ;)
22:05:02  <planetmaker> yeah :-)
22:07:18  <planetmaker> good night
22:13:16  <dihedral> it's too late for me too
22:13:18  <dihedral> good night
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22:35:52  <Aristide> Kik00
22:36:00  <Aristide> Sorry, Hi x) Wrong channel
22:36:12  <frosch123> night
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