Log for #openttd on 9th August 2013:
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03:28:25  <DabuYu> I think it's time for some new openttd transportation? ;)
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03:41:27  <SamanthaD> DabuYu: That looks like something the boys in coop thought up :p
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04:17:29  <OldManPopo> Can someone help me figure out why I cannot seem to refit any vehicles with the ECS NewGRF's installed?
04:20:38  <OldManPopo> I know, for example, that the Oil Tanker can be refitted to haul fertilizer.  However, it doesn't show that the vehicle is refittable in the "All Available vehicles" list.  Inside the depot, the Refit button is ghosted out
04:23:26  <OldManPopo> Is there a game setting somewhere I've missed?
04:28:48  <roboboy> Are you using a vehicle NewGRF?
04:29:54  <OldManPopo> No
04:30:25  <OldManPopo> I should say no, the ecs vectors handled it last time (i thought)
04:34:07  <OldManPopo> I didn't have any special vehicle NewGRF's on my last installation.  On my reinstallation, I thought it would just come with it :)
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04:42:21  <roboboy> The standard vehicles by default don't handle any new cargoes
04:42:37  <roboboy> there is a GRF called old wagons new cargos or similar
04:43:06  <roboboy>
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04:57:13  <OldManPopo> Ok, I'll have to look that one up
04:58:12  <OldManPopo> That will also allow trucks to handle the new goods as well?  I tend to build road routes until I have a decent supply of money
04:59:19  <OldManPopo> Well cool, that got the trains fixed.  Need to find one for the Lorries now.  Thank you for the help :)
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06:22:16  <dihedral> good morning
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06:52:28  <Rubidium> moin dihedral
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08:32:50  <dihedral> good morning Rubidium
08:33:05  <dihedral> oh - i am a little late with my response :-)
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08:42:26  <Alberth> moin
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08:59:58  * LordAro waves hi
09:03:27  <Alberth> hi hi
09:16:00  <Alberth> hmm, encoding a train with nml should be trivial right?
09:40:41  <roboboy> I would think so
09:42:00  <Eddi|zuHause> "almost trivial" :p
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09:43:27  <peter1138> compared to hand crafting a newgrf, maybe
09:48:48  <Eddi|zuHause> well, someone could make a GUI around the CETS generator stcript. with a few modifications it would be able to create simple train grfs by just setting stats and putting in pictures
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15:27:18  <SamanthaD> so... I was back in r24032 applying a patch. Once applied I ran hg commit so I could run diffs against it easily. I checked that everything was normal with hg status and decided to compile and test to see if the patch worked correctly in r24032 before trying to merge it into the nightly...
15:27:34  <SamanthaD> anyway... long story short is make modified four of the files that mercurial was tracking!
15:28:05  <SamanthaD> bin/baseset/openttd.grf, bin/baseset/orig_dos.obj, orig_dos_de.obj orig_win.obj
15:28:22  <SamanthaD> the last three are tweaking the MD5s for openttd.grf
15:35:45  <Alberth> yeah, you need the right grfcodec version for that
15:35:58  <Alberth> just revert the modified files
15:37:00  <Alberth> they are in the repo for people that have no grfcodec at their system
15:37:37  <SamanthaD> I'm just a bit puzzled why make modified them at all
15:37:47  <SamanthaD> they're not from the version I built off of
15:37:56  <SamanthaD> they're not the same as the current nightly, either
15:38:00  <SamanthaD> weird <.<
15:38:01  <SamanthaD> okay, reverting
15:38:11  <SamanthaD> DIE INEXPLICABLE FILES!
15:40:10  <Alberth> you have grfcodec at your system so it builds the files. Unfortunately, you have a different version than <some-version>, and the result is slightly different
15:40:34  <Alberth> which hg is very good at detecting :p
15:40:57  <SamanthaD> oh! I understand. And they're in the repository because you don't normally start with them
15:41:28  <Alberth> they are in the repo, so openttd developers don't need to have grfcodec
15:41:37  <SamanthaD> ah
15:42:06  <Alberth> where openttd developers is bigger than the list of official devs :)
15:42:25  <Alberth> ie everybody writing or compiling patches
15:42:34  <SamanthaD> yay! I'm a dev now!
15:42:39  <SamanthaD> :P
15:42:43  <Alberth> I knew it!  :D
15:43:25  <SamanthaD> I've decided that instead of maintaining Advanced Timetables and Separation I'm going to try and re-write the automatic timetable management logic in it into Slim Timetables
15:43:28  <SamanthaD> people seem to like it better
15:43:36  <Alberth> people making newgrfs for openttd could also be called openttd developers :p
15:43:48  <SamanthaD> that... and whoever wrote ATS seems to have a dread phobia for commenting their source >.<
15:44:24  <Alberth> it seems a common phobia amongst programmers :(
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15:45:20  <Alberth> so we get Slim Advanced Timetables  :)
15:45:42  <Alberth> "Slim" always make me smile, it means "smart" in my native language :)
15:46:11  <SamanthaD> haha! Yeah
15:46:52  <SamanthaD> I really like Slim Timetables but... I don't like that every time I modify a route or I replace the vehicles I have to remember to run "auto fill"
15:47:21  <Alberth> yeah, its not so smart thus :)
15:47:31  <SamanthaD> I gotta love the difficulty settings
15:47:48  <SamanthaD> I nuked my configuration file since I'm using such a different version and I didn't want it causing hard-to-trace problems, eh?
15:48:15  <Alberth> sounds like a good precaution :)
15:48:19  <SamanthaD> anyway, I enable most of the cheats and give myself 200mil in moneys and it's complaining that I can't build while paused :p
15:48:39  <SamanthaD> "NO! Difficulty settings won't allow it!"
15:48:41  <LordAro> should probably enable build-while-pause when you start cheating :P
15:48:51  <Alberth> there is setting for that too :)
15:49:22  <LordAro> i mean automagically
15:51:05  <SamanthaD> maybe a better way to do it would be to have a shortcut to some of the cheat-y options in the cheat dialog?
15:52:17  <Alberth> depending on who you talk to, you could add 1/2 of the settings then, I think :)
15:52:49  <SamanthaD> Okay... maybe the cheat-y settings that are useful for devs doing quality assurance :p
15:53:11  <Rubidium> try Alt-0 and Alt-1
15:53:14  <SamanthaD> considering that's pretty much what the cheats are FOR in the first place
15:53:24  <SamanthaD> what do those do?
15:53:59  <Rubidium> they're useful for devs doing quality assurance
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15:54:10  <Rubidium> if they don't do anything, then you're not using a debug build
15:54:37  <LordAro> ...what do they do then? :L
15:55:02  <SamanthaD> oh! I should probably compile with the debug builds
15:55:03  <SamanthaD> oops
15:55:11  <Alberth> :D
15:55:27  <SamanthaD> that's okay, I don't expect anything to not work
15:55:45  <LordAro> of course, it's always a bug in the compiler
15:55:53  <SamanthaD> I'm just doing this so that if something STOPS working I know it was my fault :p
15:57:23  <SamanthaD> at least it had better work... the forum thread said it was a "stable" version
15:57:31  <LordAro> woah, when i compile with ./configure --enable-debug=3, i get lots of warnings..
15:58:20  <LordAro> " #  warning _FORTIFY_SOURCE requires compiling with optimization (-O)"
15:58:58  <Rubidium> then your compiler forces _FORTIFY_SOURCE it seems
15:59:39  <LordAro> just 'standard' gcc, as far as i can tell
15:59:54  <LordAro> gcc (GCC) 4.8.1 20130725 (prerelease)
16:00:12  <LordAro> and alt+0 ... still doesn't do anything
16:01:52  <LordAro> meh
16:01:58  * LordAro -> afk
16:18:43  <Xaroth|Work> twerk: had already suspected something like that, but im on vacation now so itll have to wait until next week
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16:23:01  <TWerkhoven> :)
16:23:38  <TWerkhoven> enjoy your holidays
16:28:26  <Eddi|zuHause> so what's your excuse for being "|work" while on holiday?
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16:28:58  <SamanthaD> alt+0 crashes everything...
16:29:12  <SamanthaD> something tells me that's what it's supposed to do
16:29:25  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a "feature
16:29:27  <Eddi|zuHause> "
16:29:33  <Eddi|zuHause> for debug builds
16:29:35  <SamanthaD> yup!
16:29:42  <SamanthaD> for generating arbitrary stack traces, right?
16:29:53  <Eddi|zuHause> something like that
16:30:05  <SamanthaD> so... what's alt+1 supposed to do?
16:30:11  <SamanthaD> 'cuz that doesn't seem to do squat
16:30:27  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea. there's probably a list somewhere
16:30:46  <Eddi|zuHause> there were some blitter test functions in there
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16:31:09  <Eddi|zuHause> like instead of drawing a sprite, draw a random-coloured rectangle
16:31:46  <SamanthaD> ah, I see!
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17:21:03  <LordAro> alt+0 doesn't do anything for me..
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17:45:13  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25703 trunk/src/lang/czech.txt (2013-08-09 17:45:09 UTC)
17:45:14  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:15  <DorpsGek> czech - 2 changes by Eskymak
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18:20:04  <Xaroth|Work> eddi: shell i normally use @work, best accessible from spain apparently
18:27:19  <peter1138> bastards
18:30:35  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25704 /trunk/bin/baseset (no_music.obm no_sound.obs) (2013-08-09 18:30:33 UTC)
18:30:36  <DorpsGek> -Update: baseset translations
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18:39:54  <andythenorth> o/
18:40:40  <Alberth> \o
18:41:12  <andythenorth> Alberth is now a newgrf developer :o
18:42:17  <Alberth> you're still a lot of vehicles and other items ahead of me :p
18:43:46  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25705 /trunk/src (8 files in 3 dirs) (2013-08-09 18:43:44 UTC)
18:43:47  <DorpsGek> -Fix: a number of typos (inspired by 90c920601c84975acb694f3673e2beb08b013753)
18:44:52  <andythenorth> so is new fruit store done yet?
18:45:10  <fonsinchen> who is 90c920601c84975acb694f3673e2beb08b013753?
18:45:27  <Rubidium> s/who/what/
18:45:39  <fonsinchen> some git ID I guess
18:46:35  <fonsinchen> It doesn't reside in my repository, though.
18:47:34  <Rubidium> it'd fit in andy's new store though ;)
18:48:15  <andythenorth> I have a new store? :o
18:49:22  <Alberth> just like I am suddenly a new grf developer :)
18:50:02  <fonsinchen> I'd buy it
18:51:23  <Alberth> andy, and you can sell it already :)
18:52:14  <Rubidium> Alberth: you're definitely a NewGRF developer; I can see at least 65 NewGRF development commits of you
18:53:49  <Alberth> I was just shuffling code around :p
18:54:17  <fonsinchen> So, if I believe that Alberth is a new grf developer I get andy's store? Nice
18:54:28  <Rubidium> Alberth: nope, mostly proper sprite coding
18:54:42  <Alberth> :o
18:55:06  <fonsinchen> Should I start up my G4 ibook and try to reproduce FS#5694?
18:55:33  <Rubidium> feel free to do so ;)
18:55:36  <fonsinchen> I'm curious if it still works ...
18:55:53  <Alberth> good excuse to try it :)
18:56:24  <Alberth> Rubidium: so where did you find those commits then?
18:56:48  <fonsinchen> Now if I knew where it is ...
18:57:00  <Alberth> lol
18:57:19  <andythenorth> G4 iBook
18:57:22  <andythenorth> happy memories :O
18:57:37  <Rubidium> Alberth: can't remember zbasebuild?
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18:57:51  <Wolf01> moin
18:57:51  <Alberth> hi Wolf01
18:58:02  <Alberth> Rubidium: oh, of course!
18:58:52  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: does yours have fingerprints etched into the white case by finger acid?
19:00:16  <fonsinchen> No it's more like brown all over the place where I rest my palms
19:00:41  <fonsinchen> Yeah, it works
19:01:37  <andythenorth> boing
19:01:44  <andythenorth> then wait a bit
19:06:28  <fonsinchen> Whopping 800 Mhz PPC
19:08:44  <andythenorth> 512MB?
19:08:52  <fonsinchen> 640
19:09:03  <fonsinchen> I've upgraded from 256 at some point
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19:09:05  <andythenorth> bonus
19:09:08  <andythenorth> 64GB?
19:09:52  <fonsinchen> I've upgraded the hard drive, too. To 120 GB I think
19:10:00  <fonsinchen> But most of that is reserved for linux
19:10:04  <andythenorth> nostalgia :)
19:10:11  <andythenorth> I don't miss the crappy plastic macs
19:11:39  <SamanthaD> my terminal emulator and emacs do not get along...
19:11:54  <SamanthaD> it thinks that M-v means "Open up the view menu" :p
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19:17:24  <fonsinchen> I remember why I hate Mac OS. Where is "~" on that silly keyboard ...
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19:19:50  * SamanthaD goes to look at one of her apple keyboards
19:20:32  <SamanthaD> fonsinchen: It's where it normally is on my keyboard!
19:20:54  <fonsinchen> Not on this laptop. But don't bother I found a way around it.
19:21:51  <fonsinchen> The crash is totally reproducible
19:23:21  <fonsinchen> The interesting question is if I can get a proper build environment going on that machine
19:23:36  <fonsinchen> I somehow remember it doesn't like my outdated Xcode
19:23:55  <SamanthaD> if all else fails, document it and claim you did it on purpose ;)
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19:29:01  * SamanthaD is learning emacs
19:29:07  <SamanthaD> you gotta love the tutorial
19:29:14  <SamanthaD> it feels like it hasn't been updated since the early 80s
19:29:19  <SamanthaD> "If you terminal has arrow keys..."
19:29:26  <Alberth> it probably isn't
19:29:40  <SamanthaD> My terminal has arrow keys :p
19:29:47  <SamanthaD> it's also not a terminal!
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19:30:22  <Alberth> in that case,  I never used a terminal :p
19:30:46  <SamanthaD> Well... I guess I've sorta used a terminal
19:31:08  <SamanthaD> does ssh-ing into a remote server turn my laptop into a terminal?
19:31:09  <fonsinchen> Internal compiler error
19:31:10  <SamanthaD> who knows!
19:31:11  <fonsinchen> great
19:31:27  <SamanthaD> fonsinchen: what compiler are you using?
19:31:51  <Alberth> SamanthaD: only if the arrow keys are unusable?
19:31:54  <fonsinchen> g++ 4.0.0
19:32:01  <SamanthaD> weird...
19:32:02  <fonsinchen> from Mac OS 10.4 after all
19:32:22  <fonsinchen> This is not weird. It's ancient
19:33:08  <SamanthaD> why don't you upgrade g++?
19:33:37  <SamanthaD> my terminal tells me I'm using 4.7 and I use Debian Stable for christ'sakes
19:33:45  <fonsinchen> Can you do that on Mac OS?
19:33:54  <SamanthaD> I guess?
19:33:56  <fonsinchen> You need XCode for that or roll your own
19:34:05  <fonsinchen> Rolling your own will be a pain in the ass
19:34:26  <fonsinchen> And Xcode isn't maintained anymore on such old systems
19:34:39  <SamanthaD> *shrugs* I just did `apt-get install build-essentials` and was happy
19:35:04  <fonsinchen> Well, another reason why I hate Mac OS, after all.
19:35:24  <SamanthaD> maybe you should consider upgrading your operating systems?
19:35:42  <SamanthaD> I mean... compiler problems are the least of your concerns when running an unmaintained OS
19:35:48  <fonsinchen> The whole purpose of it is fixing FS#5694
19:35:59  <fonsinchen> Otherwise I wouldn't have dug out that machine
19:36:03  <SamanthaD> ooooooooh... I get it
19:36:32  * SamanthaD ponders... perhaps instead of compiling it on that machine you could compile it on another machine, targeted for this machine?
19:36:46  <fonsinchen> I'd need another Mac for that
19:36:50  <Rubidium> fonsinchen: but gcc 4.0.0 is (officially) still supported
19:36:50  <fonsinchen> Which I don't have
19:36:57  <fonsinchen> hrmmmm
19:37:05  <fonsinchen> Maybe I should debug that, then
19:37:25  <Rubidium> what's the error you're getting?
19:37:27  <fonsinchen> It fails in ai_gui.cpp:1309
19:37:36  <fonsinchen> Internal compiler error: bus error
19:37:56  <Rubidium> what version of openttd?
19:38:03  <fonsinchen> 1.3.2
19:38:34  <Rubidium> just try whether commenting out that bit helps
19:39:58  <Rubidium> though... the supported is more like: we haven't heard any compile problems with it yet. Not sure whether it was recently tested
19:40:00  <fonsinchen> works if I remove the function call and just set that num to -1
19:40:23  <fonsinchen> Let's wait for another half hour until it compiles the rest
19:40:28  <fonsinchen> Then I can tell you more
19:40:51  <fonsinchen> Oh, another internal compiler error
19:41:07  <Rubidium> again of CheckHotkey?
19:41:14  <fonsinchen> yes
19:41:23  <fonsinchen> airport_gui.cpp:104
19:41:23  <SamanthaD> do you really need XCode to compile stuff?!
19:41:34  <Rubidium> #define CheckHotkey(...) (-1) ;)
19:42:30  <andythenorth> XCode is easiest way to get GCC
19:42:34  <andythenorth> there are other routes
19:42:40  <Rubidium> fonsinchen: alternatively, if you don't need the debugger, we could use the compile farm to build binaries (but that takes about 30 minutes per build)
19:43:40  <fonsinchen> Well, I do need the debugger to find out anything more interesting about that bug
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19:43:52  <fonsinchen> Or do you have another idea how to do that?
19:44:23  <Rubidium> loads and loads of printfs? (yay desync debugging)
19:45:34  <fonsinchen> nah, I'll try to fix the CheckHotKeyMatch first and then go on to 5694
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19:47:47  <megakacktus> I've got a noobie question: what exactly do the arguments to the GetString() function do?
19:47:59  * megakacktus couldn't find the answer in the docs :L
19:50:23  <Alberth> GetString(buf, STR_INDUSTRY_NAME, lastof(buf));    with   char buffer[512]  is not clear?
19:50:49  <Alberth> euhm   char buf[512];
19:51:15  <fonsinchen> Well, the aidebug_hotkeys are defined in ai_gui.cpp:1400 but used in line 1309
19:51:20  <fonsinchen> or did I miss anything?
19:51:43  <fonsinchen> oh, forget it
19:52:13  <megakacktus> wait... never mind...
19:58:54  <fonsinchen> It actually works if you don't define the function inline
19:59:08  <fonsinchen> So order of definition seems to trigger the compiler bug after all
20:03:37  <fonsinchen> Same for airport_gui.cpp
20:04:26  <Alberth> good that you found a way around the compile problem
20:04:47  <fonsinchen> I already worked around another problem before
20:05:38  <fonsinchen> -mmacosx-version-min is not supported by that compiler
20:05:54  <fonsinchen> So I edited it out of the makefile
20:06:26  <fonsinchen> and it warns about MAC_OS_X_VERSION_10_5 not being defined all the time
20:08:12  <Alberth> just define it :p
20:08:30  <fonsinchen> it wouldn't exactly be true ...
20:08:52  <Alberth> yeah, it might break things
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20:35:08  <fonsinchen> Actually it's important not to define the HAVE_CONST_ICONV
20:35:21  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20:35:42  <fonsinchen> So I'm compiling again from the beginning now :(
20:36:51  <__ln__> 22:33 < SamanthaD> why don't you upgrade g++?  22:33 < fonsinchen> Can you do that on Mac OS?   <--- upgrading would probably lead to many kind of issues
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21:21:58  <fonsinchen> Uh-oh, lots of errors from
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21:35:33  <fonsinchen> It's done compiling
21:36:02  <fonsinchen> It actually starts and behaves normally (except for lzo not being compiled in and thus the start game not being there)
21:36:03  <Rubidium> "... and does not reproduce the bug I'm looking for" ?
21:36:11  <fonsinchen> true
21:36:19  <fonsinchen> I found tons of other bugs, though
21:37:02  <fonsinchen> Maybe one of those has a side effect that causes FS#5694
21:37:03  <__ln__> no you can't have, it's free software and therefore bug-free
21:38:14  <fonsinchen> I'll prepare some patches tomorrow. Then I can give you a different meme.
21:38:56  <fonsinchen> Oh, it throws tons of iconv errors
21:39:45  <fonsinchen> error converting <some garbage with path in it>. Errno 92
21:40:36  <__ln__> what are you doing actually? compiling trunk on 10.4/ppc?
21:41:12  <fonsinchen> no, actually 1.3.2
21:41:19  <fonsinchen> but on 10.4/ppc
21:42:11  <__ln__> good, supporting ppc is important
21:48:25  <fonsinchen> Yes, PPC has a great future ahead. Go ask IBM
21:48:28  <fonsinchen> good night
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22:10:11  <Wolf01> 'night
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