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00:01:26 *** JGR [~JGR@host81-129-57-88.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:15:38 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has joined #openttd 00:18:26 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:46:39 *** ST2 [~ST2@bl6-254-79.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: On the rocks! ^^] 00:51:55 *** ST2 [~ST2@bl6-254-79.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 01:05:05 *** SamanthaD_ [~SamanthaD@c-98-248-25-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:05:08 <SamanthaD_> *waves* 01:05:54 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-097-056.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:10:52 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has quit [Quit: http://tinodidriksen.com/] 01:11:36 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has joined #openttd 01:19:32 *** montalvo [~montalvo@macbook60.icrar.org] has joined #openttd 01:19:32 *** Arkabzol [~Arkabzol@c-40cce555.018-390-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 01:24:05 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:24:19 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:31:09 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.126] has joined #openttd 02:20:11 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-182-193-134.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:24:53 *** Dark-Ace-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has joined #openttd 02:28:39 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:29:04 *** Dark-Ace-Z is now known as DarkAceZ 02:32:20 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 02:56:36 *** Belugas [~belugas@00011985.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:00:21 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.230] has joined #openttd 03:00:24 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 03:17:11 *** Belugas [~belugas@00011985.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:18:26 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.230] has joined #openttd 03:18:29 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 03:32:12 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D641.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD54DA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD48B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:02:45 *** Arkabzol [~Arkabzol@c-40cce555.018-390-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:28:53 <maddy_> I have been thinking about the signals thing we talked about yesterday: I will forget the idea for scripts, but maybe do something similar to 'programmable signals', only not use that as a base but start fresh 05:30:52 <maddy_> the supported features and specifically the GUI needs some thought to be sure 05:30:58 <SamanthaD_> is this so that prios won't have silly track elements? 05:31:22 <maddy_> yeah, at the simplest level, but I think I will support more stuff later on 05:32:15 <SamanthaD_> what I would like are signals with penalties going through them for the pathfinder 05:32:52 <maddy_> we have that already, passing a pbs signal from the backside? 05:32:57 <SamanthaD_> (make trains prefer the "center lane" on multi-track tracks) 05:33:18 <SamanthaD_> yeah, I knew about that 05:33:36 <SamanthaD_> it's just that I have this track structure I've been playing with that involves alternating signals and cross-over tracks 05:33:55 <maddy_> it actually works out pretty good for the penalty, because you can change the penalty value manually (in my game a value of 500 worked good for my purpose, instead of the default 1500) 05:34:13 <maddy_> oh, right 05:34:53 <SamanthaD_> I dunno... I might go for a "priority signal" but more than that might be feature cruft... 05:35:04 <SamanthaD_> but that's just IMHO 05:36:49 <maddy_> the most simple version I am thinking of, is that you could choose a set of signals which the programmable signal depends on, and then select a boolean operator for it (AND, OR) which is used to process the inputs 05:37:22 <maddy_> it could be called a logic signal 05:37:50 *** DDR [~chatzilla@S01060019dbe06285.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 05:38:06 <SamanthaD_> definitely need thouht about the GUI for that though... 05:38:39 <maddy_> yeah, that's the hard part, how to do it well 05:39:23 <SamanthaD_> maybe we could just go with a consistent implementation? All signals are now controlled via Lisp code! 05:39:40 <maddy_> hehe 05:41:42 <maddy_> for more advanced features, I would really like to support signals which act based on the incoming train, so you could do splits based on cargo type, train length and the like 05:42:25 <SamanthaD_> that's easy: just use a waypoint 05:50:53 <maddy_> right, I didn't think of that, good point, so that functionality is not required 05:51:04 <SamanthaD_> yup 05:51:10 <SamanthaD_> I use waypoints like that in almost every game! 05:52:36 <V453000> not even waypoints are necessary to do that :) 05:53:19 <maddy_> for train length? yeah I saw some logic constructs for it 05:54:53 <V453000> no even without that 05:55:28 <V453000> e.g. if both trains go somewhere a tiny little bit different, you can navigate them differently too, even though they would normally take the same path for most of the trip 05:55:28 <maddy_> ok, how then? 05:56:02 <V453000> we call it a pathfinder trap 05:56:17 <V453000> you basically simulate that somewhere is a path, but the trains cant access it when they approach it 05:56:56 <SamanthaD_> I usually use them in order to direct different trains to different platforms 05:57:06 <SamanthaD_> like... on small stations I might have one platform for loading and one for unloading 05:57:15 <SamanthaD_> or one for livestock and one for grain... 05:57:57 <V453000> well yeah but that is the same as if you made 2 separate stations which is probably more convenient in general 05:58:05 <maddy_> I read about the pathfinder trap, but didn't fully understand it, sounds interesting though 05:58:42 <V453000> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Two-way-Signals here is a little piece of information about it but not much 05:58:45 <SamanthaD_> I've never heard about this trap thing... 05:58:53 <SamanthaD_> sounds like a bug we need to squash ;) 06:01:30 <SamanthaD_> anyway 06:01:31 <SamanthaD_> I gotta run 06:01:34 <SamanthaD_> you guys have fun, eh? 06:01:41 *** SamanthaD_ [~SamanthaD@c-98-248-25-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:03:26 <maddy_> V453000: what do you think about my idea for 'logic signals' ? 06:07:18 <V453000> unless it has gui visibility like cargo link it is completely worthless 06:07:47 <V453000> you can do everything by now already 06:08:22 <V453000> the signals would only do it invisibly - which if using a couple of signals would become absolutely chaotic if there is no graph thing to show which thing links to what, graphically 06:08:54 <V453000> it does not technically add anything new with it either, but at least is somewhat usable 06:11:12 <maddy_> yeah, the graph thing would really be a key I think, to show the links between the signals 06:11:28 <V453000> yes, rails do that now, which is a lot better 06:11:58 <V453000> but even with it I do not see a single reason for such feature 06:12:25 <V453000> unless you can think of something which will open new possibilities 06:13:05 <maddy_> the main reason is that you could do more 'clean' track layouts, without 'unused' priority tracks cluttering your track layouts, and of course not taking up space 06:14:06 <V453000> which is bs 06:14:45 <maddy_> why? 06:15:31 <V453000> because laying down tracks is better in every regard 06:15:44 <V453000> it is visible, better maintainable, more adjustable 06:15:54 <dihedral> good morning 06:15:58 <V453000> and mainly improvesp layers understanding of pre-signals 06:19:56 <maddy_> well, I disagree with every regard, but it has lots of good things too, I agree 06:28:32 *** DDR [~chatzilla@S01060019dbe06285.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 06:39:34 <maddy_> dihedral: morning 06:46:32 *** Pecio [~fgh@agjk65.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 07:04:25 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 07:10:50 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:30:21 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 07:34:21 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [] 07:47:33 <dihedral> hello maddy_ 07:48:47 <maddy_> what do you think about my idea for logic signals, featuring only hard-coded choices, as opposed to scripts...it should be more manageable 07:51:17 <dihedral> give me some examples, i did not ready the backlog :-P 07:51:22 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:51:47 *** Pecio [~fgh@agjk65.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:53:03 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:53:20 <maddy_> very simple: ability to use AND/OR/NOT boolean operators and link to other signals as inputs 07:55:07 <dihedral> link only to the previous signal's as input 07:56:39 <dihedral> i like the idea 07:58:02 <maddy_> the key would be ability to show the links between the signals visually, so it's easy to see where the inputs come from 07:58:20 <dihedral> if you work with the pre signals, then you already have your OR type 07:59:03 <dihedral> and you already have the state forwarding / receiving 08:01:07 <maddy_> I will use the existing patch for programmable signals as a guide, but I will probably start fresh 08:03:07 <dihedral> i would rather suggest using the code for the existing pre signal types 08:03:44 <dihedral> esp block entry signal and combo signal (see http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals) 08:05:35 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.126] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0/20130730113002]] 08:06:13 *** Pecio [~fgh@agjk65.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 08:14:46 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-165-39-164.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:15:24 <LordAro> /o 08:33:33 *** killertester [~igor@i185-11-148-51.kmv.ru] has joined #openttd 08:44:36 <peter1138> getting sidetracked there i see 08:45:50 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:47:35 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 09:01:53 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:01:59 <Wolf01> hi ho 09:05:46 <LordAro> hi Wolf01 09:19:11 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.98.120] has joined #openttd 09:21:20 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.98.120] has quit [] 09:22:05 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.98.120] has joined #openttd 09:24:19 *** Pecio [~fgh@agjk65.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:08 *** Devroush367 [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:26:55 *** Pecio [~fgh@agjk65.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 09:29:16 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:33:34 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:34:16 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 09:39:00 <dihedral> peter1138, why? 09:40:38 *** MrShell [~mrshell@HSI-KBW-5-56-195-183.hsi17.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #openttd 09:42:44 *** MrShell [~mrshell@HSI-KBW-5-56-195-183.hsi17.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 09:48:03 *** montalvo [~montalvo@macbook60.icrar.org] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 09:48:13 <Eddi|zuHause> maddy_: the main problem with "signals as inputs" is that it won't work with path signals, there you would need (reservation of) arbitrary tile as input 09:55:21 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so WHY THE HELL does my code not work? 09:56:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i get some stuff from the database, update it, and then the update is not there when i read it again :/ 10:00:44 <dihedral> master / slave database setup? 10:00:45 <dihedral> :-P 10:00:55 <dihedral> update fails 10:05:34 <Eddi|zuHause> AAAAAARRGHHH 10:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> mismatch between editor's codepage and the #encoding-line 10:06:26 <dihedral> hehe 10:07:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, of course u"À" does not equal u"À" 10:08:59 <maddy_> Eddi|zuHause: yes, it would probably not work with path signals, my initial implementation would support only block signals I think 10:09:52 <Eddi|zuHause> maddy_: that's kind of the problem with all these patches. they try to cater some niche which fails to adress the main issue... 10:11:35 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, what's the main issue? :-) 10:12:03 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever involves path signals, which are the most common signals of all :) 10:12:07 <planetmaker> (IMHO for programmable signals it's a sane UI beyond textual display, visual feedback on the map) 10:12:13 <Eddi|zuHause> like... "signals on bridges" (WTF!) 10:12:56 *** Devroush367 [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:13:32 <maddy_> well I have to start somewhere, who knows maybe it can be improved later 10:14:34 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, "most common signals of all" < not on V453000's networks :D 10:15:59 <maddy_> planetmaker: any ideas for the UI / visual display on map are welcome btw 10:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> well that is no surprise that V453000 does the exact opposite of what i would do :p 10:23:59 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #openttd 10:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> maddy_: concerning "simple" rules: what i always missed was something like "keep this signal red for 10 days, then allow it to go green for 30 days [repeat]" 10:31:10 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-182-193-134.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:38:37 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #openttd 10:38:48 <LordAro> oh hey, the forums are fast again 10:39:34 <maddy_> Eddi|zuHause: good idea 10:40:24 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, wtf? what is that for?? 10:40:33 <Eddi|zuHause> maddy_: a method to synchronize the signals like vehicle timetables would help there :) 10:40:45 <dihedral> you have mad ideas Eddi 10:41:11 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: mixed cargo/passenger line won't allow cargo trains to enter the line short before a passenger train is scheduled 10:41:31 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, what will happen if you computer denotes the suffix of your nick, and for some odd reason you need to take your home computer to work? 10:42:00 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: we'll figure that out when it happens :p 10:42:20 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, you can simply solve that by using a 'priority' type setup and making cargo trains a tile longer than passenger trains :-P 10:42:45 <dihedral> then you can loop a singal state forward to the passengar lane so that when a cargo train comes the passenger lane is always red :-P 10:42:51 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: can't put "priorities" on path signals 10:43:07 <dihedral> not on the signals 10:43:09 <dihedral> build it with tracks 10:43:15 <dihedral> oh - path signals ... 10:43:20 <dihedral> yucks 10:43:28 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: not enough space 10:43:42 <dihedral> that's your problem :-D 10:44:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i often have a different set of problems and solutions than openttdcoop :p 10:44:42 <V453000> nobody says you need to have path signals everywhere :) 10:45:14 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: but they do help when space is an issue :) 10:45:21 <V453000> everywhere? 10:46:04 <V453000> if you need signal A to do whatever (e.g. priority), you dont need or want path signal there anyway 10:46:37 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: if you can put the "priority" and "load balancer" stuff into the programmable part, instead of extra tracks, there is no reason not to use path signals 10:47:09 <V453000> how is it related to path signals at all 10:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it is not 10:47:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it shoudl just work with them, or i won't use the patch 10:48:31 <V453000> if that worked, it would add something new indeed 10:48:38 <V453000> otherwise it is worthless as I said 10:51:30 <V453000> I wouldnt say that path signals are simple at all though 10:51:52 <V453000> every beginner has easier time understanding what is a signal block than where are safe waiting post 10:51:54 <V453000> spots 10:52:36 <dihedral> i think and|or|not signals for pre signal type could be interesting 10:52:48 <dihedral> where OR already exists 10:53:04 <peter1138> signal blocks, yes, pre-signals, no 10:53:42 <peter1138> but then true, most people don't give a fuck about safe waiting points and use path signals as block signal replacements 10:54:07 <V453000> I did not say pre-signals on purpose :) 10:54:10 <Eddi|zuHause> every beginner doesn't understand signals at all :p 10:54:27 <V453000> well then, why are path signals (especially the 2way ones) default? :d 10:54:40 <V453000> if basic block signals are most intuitive to new players 10:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that was an unproven statement by you 10:55:36 <V453000> yes I only see and teach players, has no value 10:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause> well, then implement a feature that hides presignals from the signal gui, for beginners 10:57:58 <Eddi|zuHause> then the block signal could be default, with path signals as an option 10:58:09 <V453000> how does that make any sense 10:58:11 <Eddi|zuHause> for when they learned what ha signal is 10:58:30 <Eddi|zuHause> because nobody(tm) needs presignals :) 10:58:56 <V453000> only retarded people dont 10:59:24 <Eddi|zuHause> if it were up to me, i would have ripped them out of the game and every tutorial out there 10:59:34 <V453000> very sensible 11:00:05 <Eddi|zuHause> you could re-implement their functionality with programmable signals 11:00:52 <peter1138> +1 11:01:02 <V453000> simple logic of pre-signals does not kill the fun, retarded programming of signals would. 11:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause> then you need the ability to define "signal templates" 11:01:31 <Eddi|zuHause> to easily construct junctions 11:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> without defining each signal individually 11:02:14 <V453000> which would end up as pre-signals ... difference is? 11:02:42 <Eddi|zuHause> difference is... a) more flexibility, b) less old clutter 11:03:29 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.98.120] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC is updating to v1.9.2 Beta Build (140813-3) 64 Bit] 11:04:06 <V453000> still, where would you save such a template 11:04:08 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.98.120] has joined #openttd 11:04:25 <Eddi|zuHause> in the config file, next to newgrf presets 11:04:36 <V453000> so everybody would need to re-define pre-signals? 11:04:38 <V453000> that doesnt make sense 11:04:48 <roboboy> no 11:05:11 <Eddi|zuHause> or where you store your copy-paste junctions 11:05:28 <V453000> anybody uses copypaste? 11:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know 11:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody uses presignals? 11:06:48 <V453000> most people do 11:07:24 <V453000> go visit actual servers, not forums filled with idiots who talk more than play 11:07:51 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody uses servers? 11:08:26 <V453000> oh, ok then 11:12:46 <maddy_> does there have to be a one-solution-fits-all type thing though? like say path vs block signals: arguably you could do some things with either type, depending on the players preferences 11:14:06 <V453000> I think the only thing to add could be a PBS signal which is red when presignals ahead are red 11:14:15 <V453000> you could do anything with that too 11:25:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D641.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:32:01 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:37:44 <dihedral> peter1138, what's wrong with using the existing pre-signal setup and extending that? they already have forwarding and receiving previous signals state, it's easy to add and change their reaction based on forwarded states 11:40:45 <peter1138> dihedral, i wasn't responding to you :) 11:41:00 <V453000> there isnt any problem with it, that is their problem :) 11:48:03 <maddy_> I'll see what I can do, if anything, being so beginner at openttd even as a player, not to mention as a coder 11:50:09 <planetmaker> coding a game is playing the meta-game ;-) 11:54:24 <Eddi|zuHause> sooo... UI concept: the signal GUI is changed, to allow a "insert new signal type here" button. then a "programmable signals" gui opens up, you can select an appearance of the signal out of the current (8?) signal type graphics, a button whether it acts as a block or path signal, and a behaviour setup where instead of "listen to signal at <X>" you enter "listen to {all|nearest} signal of type <X>" ["... and make <decision"] which 11:54:25 <Eddi|zuHause> automatically gets filled in when placing the signal/changing the junction 11:55:40 <Eddi|zuHause> player can manually override the selected signal(s) after the signal is placed, with the "regular" programmable signal GUI 11:57:05 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe newgrf signals can provide more than 8 signal graphics 11:57:11 <peter1138> pff 11:57:22 <peter1138> what was wrong with the already implemented programmable signals anyway? 11:57:29 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea 11:57:32 <Eddi|zuHause> never tried it 11:57:44 <Eddi|zuHause> likely "doesn'T work with path signals" :p 11:57:59 <maddy_> peter1138: nothing as such, I will plan to use it as a guide, but I like to write stuff from the scratch, to learn the openttd code better 11:58:00 <peter1138> there's more to signal state than checking the state of other signals 11:58:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the main thing to learn from that patch is probably "how and where was this stuff stored?" 11:58:53 <peter1138> whether it's possible to "hold this slow train a second while that faster train goes through" sanely is another matter :D 11:59:30 <peter1138> of course, that's "worthless" to players like V453000, but not to everyone 11:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i don't think the signal should be able to detect the type of train that is waiting 11:59:35 <peter1138> why not? 11:59:45 <Eddi|zuHause> performance? complexity? 11:59:56 <peter1138> think of it as an automated man in a signal box or control centre 12:00:16 <peter1138> of course it's not the signal doing the decision really, but even so 12:00:16 <Eddi|zuHause> a turk signal! :p 12:00:35 <peter1138> pfft performance pfft complexity 12:00:38 <maddy_> peter1138: someone suggested that different trains could be already directed to specific tracks by using waypoints, which to some degree defeats the purpose of detecting any info about the incoming train 12:01:35 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the other way around would be "enough", impose a pathfinder penalty depending on which train requested a path 12:01:51 <Eddi|zuHause> then the signal does not have to actively check for a train waiting 12:02:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and it can influence trains from further away already 12:02:26 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can guide slow trains towards the "slow trains wait here" signal 12:02:43 <Eddi|zuHause> and let the fast train pass on the "fast lane" 12:11:49 <dihedral> <maddy_> I'll see what I can do, if anything, being so beginner at openttd even as a player, not to mention as a coder <- i have not played in a very long time myself 12:12:00 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.196.81] has joined #openttd 12:13:54 <maddy_> dihedral: right, I have played on and off for years, with long breaks in between but I always return to this great game 12:15:23 <planetmaker> dihedral, bad bad bad ;-) 12:15:45 <planetmaker> I guess you stopped playing when a certain nightly server ceased to run :-P 12:16:12 <V453000> certain :) 12:33:22 *** NeuhNeuh [~quassel@37.175.196.81] has joined #openttd 12:36:09 *** krinn [~krinn@53.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 12:36:28 <krinn> hi 12:37:31 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.196.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:38:16 <maddy_> krinn: hi 13:00:09 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 13:00:56 <__ln__> does anyone have an idea what would be a good way to compress something like 15..30 bytes of data? 13:01:52 <Wolf01> mux/demux 13:04:57 <__ln__> a what? 13:05:08 <Wolf01> multiplexing 13:05:25 <Wolf01> but might not be your case 13:06:22 <Eddi|zuHause> for compressing it always matters WHAT kind of data 13:07:10 <__ln__> naturally. 13:07:12 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no algorithm that can compress every stream of 30 bytes by 1 bit 13:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause> because there is one less bitstream of 1 to 8*30-1 bits than bitstreams of 8*30 bits. 13:10:07 <__ln__> i am well aware of the inherent limitations 13:10:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like the game where there's one less chairs than players 13:11:21 <Wolf01> you could turn up the chairs and let 4 people sit for each chair... ehm 13:11:27 <__ln__> i don't expect to compress any given input by even 1 bit, but i'm looking into the possibility of compressing some inputs by more than insignificant amount of bits. 13:11:51 <Wolf01> you could try to apply a Huffmann algorythm 13:12:39 <krinn> with such few bits, any compression system will higher the result on failure 13:12:53 *** Tom_Soft [~id@173.245.67.57] has joined #openttd 13:13:14 <__ln__> krinn: indeed, that's why probably the very first bit should indicate whether the data is compressed at all. 13:14:31 *** amiller [~amiller@c-69-255-193-198.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:14:37 <Eddi|zuHause> well there are only a handful of generic compression algorithms, so when you don't give us any details about the structure of the data, just pick one of those 13:14:53 <Eddi|zuHause> huffman code is good start, or an arithmetic code 13:16:02 <Eddi|zuHause> or just pipe it through gzip 13:16:21 <__ln__> i know many algorithms or at least their practical implementations will generate so much headers and stuff that for very small inputs the compressed size will basically be larger than the source. 13:17:25 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. so what is the actual usecase where shaving a few bits off a 30 byte stream would outweigh the effort and latency of compressing? 13:18:37 <krinn> and generally for stream people prefer having more bits than less :) 13:19:09 <__ln__> the use case is transferring a few dozen bytes of binary data on the phone, one person reading it out loud, and the other one writing it down on the other end. 13:19:34 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:19:54 <Wolf01> use a modem 13:20:35 <Wolf01> it works better than havind 2 people doing that :P 13:20:41 <Wolf01> *having 13:20:55 <Eddi|zuHause> acoustic coupling :p 13:21:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the phone system is digital nowadays, you know :p 13:21:17 <__ln__> Wolf01: perhaps, but if one person doesn't have a modem, it doesn't work very well. 13:21:54 <__ln__> Wolf01: besides, i challenge you to find me a price for an acoustic modem that you can use with a cell phone :) 13:21:57 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: whatever you're trying to do, you should probably rethink your approach :p 13:22:02 <krinn> __ln__ i think the best method would be compressing the whole message and then send the compress message 30/30bytes 13:22:16 <Wolf01> the cellphone already has a modem 13:22:45 <__ln__> not necessarily, and certainly not an acoustic one 13:22:49 <Wolf01> or you won't be able to talk to another person 13:22:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the cellphone has also SMS which can transfer 30 bytes easily :p 13:23:50 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: i don't trust that people can write 30 characters of arbitrary A-Z0-9 without typos :/ 13:24:10 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: add an error code :) 13:24:28 <__ln__> however, generating a QR code would be a possibility, and reading it with the phone's camera if it has one. 13:25:02 <Wolf01> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/386604/compressing-a-small-amount-of-data 13:26:24 *** tssst [~id@37.140.99.39] has joined #openttd 13:26:38 <krinn> you may count 1 and 0 and send the value as 3 (3 bit set to 1) -4 (4 bits set to 0).... if you have a good range of pattern of 0|1 you get good result and an easy system for the other guy to uncode it 13:28:00 *** Tom_Soft [~id@173.245.67.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:28:23 <__ln__> Wolf01: good url 13:28:25 <peter1138> bit-wise RLE is probably going to use more bits representing the counters than the data 13:28:42 <krinn> in the worst case you will have to said it 240 times :) 13:28:56 <Wolf01> or the run-length compression, but works well only if you have multiple consecutive 0 or 1, like 3-0 and 2-1, 2-0, 2-1 => 000110011 13:28:56 *** NeuhNeuh [~quassel@37.175.196.81] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:30:11 <Wolf01> and since you might need to do that in binary, you'll end up with more bits than the original :P 13:31:09 <Wolf01> this remembers an old game I found 13:31:25 <Wolf01> 1 13:31:25 <Wolf01> 11 13:31:25 <Wolf01> 21 13:31:25 <Wolf01> 1211 13:31:25 <Wolf01> 111221 13:31:27 <Wolf01> ... 13:32:13 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.196.81] has joined #openttd 13:32:26 <__ln__> ... and after that you learned the number 3 in school? 13:33:23 <V453000> :DDD 13:33:35 <planetmaker> hehe, nice sequence, Wolf01 :-) 13:33:46 <planetmaker> reminds me of "An eternal golden braid" by Hofstadter 13:33:59 <planetmaker> 312211 13:34:05 <LordAro> nice, Wolf01 :) 13:34:20 <LordAro> 312211 13:34:27 <planetmaker> slow :-P 13:34:37 <Wolf01> :) 13:34:44 <LordAro> ah, right 13:34:51 <LordAro> 13112221 13:34:53 <LordAro> :p 13:35:02 <Wolf01> I started madness again? 13:35:03 <planetmaker> :-) 13:35:13 * LordAro wonders how easy it would be to script... 13:35:14 <planetmaker> did it ever cease to exist, Wolf01 ? ;-) 13:35:18 <V453000> is that numbers of beers per round? 13:35:36 <planetmaker> 1113213211 13:35:40 <V453000> if not, it is a bad game 13:36:30 <LordAro> 31131211131221 13:36:33 <LordAro> :) 13:37:35 <planetmaker> 13211311123113112211 13:37:37 <planetmaker> :D 13:39:01 <LordAro> 11131221133112132113212221 13:39:40 <LordAro> probability of a mistake... increasing... 13:39:45 <planetmaker> 3113112221232112111312211312113211 13:39:56 <planetmaker> don't they increase? 13:40:50 <planetmaker> anyway, I'm sure we wrote a programme for that sequence in school like 20-odd years ago or so :-P 13:40:58 <Wolf01> me too 13:41:26 <LordAro> can't say i have 13:41:32 <Wolf01> I think I did it in Q-Basic or so 13:41:32 * LordAro goes away and tries 13:41:45 <planetmaker> either Pascal or Prolog. Dunno anymore :-) 13:42:16 <V453000> pascal was awesome 13:43:31 <TWerkhoven> oooh, pascal 13:44:31 <krinn> tooked me 4 years to know it was name after the mathematician :P 13:45:18 <V453000> no it is named after the pressure units 13:45:26 <V453000> :> 13:45:31 <krinn> :) 13:45:56 *** mindlesstux [~mindlestu@raspberrypi.mindlesstux.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:46:16 <planetmaker> :D 13:48:27 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 13:50:35 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 13:50:52 <LordAro> 1321132131111213122112311311222113111221131221 13:50:54 <LordAro> :p 13:53:28 <peter1138> wut 13:54:56 <Wolf01> there's an error 13:54:59 <maddy_> UK english is the default language? 13:55:11 <Wolf01> 4 ones can't exists 13:55:19 <LordAro> wait, crap 13:56:40 <LordAro> 3121312132111213122112311311222113111221131221 13:56:59 <LordAro> i think i managed to write a '1' instead of a '2' :L 13:57:09 <krinn> anyone have a look at the ai railpf ? it looks totally buggy 13:57:40 <Wolf01> and this time the error is at the very beginning :P 13:58:34 <LordAro> ah, screw it 13:58:34 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.196.81] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:58:39 * LordAro writes the program 13:59:03 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: it's probably Zuu's fault :p 13:59:45 <krinn> seriously, to a point i'm thinking it's me that is wrong 13:59:46 <Wolf01> lol, 312131 -> 11111111 14:00:29 <LordAro> shh! 14:01:14 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, actually i don't think i've seen this sequence before... 14:02:05 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.196.81] has joined #openttd 14:02:14 <LordAro> nobody tell him, let him work it out >:) 14:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.google.com/maps?ll=51.492132,-0.192862&spn=0.000855,0.510178&cbp=12,285.49,,0,12.03&layer=c&panoid=c9UMhWP_MWm9U0L48xEjYw&cbll=51.492132,-0.192862&t=m&z=11 14:12:57 *** tssst [~id@37.140.99.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:14:32 <krinn> lol Eddi|zuHause must use woobly cars there 14:14:48 <Wolf01> the tardis? 14:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> click on the double arrow :) 14:15:28 <krinn> :) tardis 14:16:11 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: yeah, i never understood the wobbly lines on english roads... 14:16:20 <krinn> could have done it on a pic with less trash 14:18:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the pic isn't the point... 14:19:18 <krinn> i enter it already 14:20:01 <dihedral> <planetmaker> I guess you stopped playing when a certain nightly server ceased to run :-P <- actually long before that :-D 14:21:35 <peter1138> double arrow? 14:22:20 <krinn> there's a double >> to move 14:22:42 <peter1138> where? 14:23:07 <krinn> on your screen :) 14:23:29 <Eddi|zuHause> allegedly it doesn't work if you use the "new" interface to google maps 14:24:01 <peter1138> "Get the new Google Maps. Try it now" < I assume I'm not using the "new" interface 14:25:02 <Wolf01> I can't see a >> also in the classic interface 14:26:21 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, told you to avoid joking with people using lynx 14:26:50 <Wolf01> ahah 14:28:21 <peter1138> works in iceweasel 14:28:24 <peter1138> but not chromium 14:28:45 <peter1138> still using dodgy browser detection code :S 14:31:03 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-035-111.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 14:32:56 *** ntoskrnl11 [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:35:24 <maddy_> what's the difference of DoCommand and DoCommandP? 14:36:02 <Eddi|zuHause> maddy_: one is sent over the network for synchronisation and the other assumes that it's already run synchronously on every client 14:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so the initial user action must be synchronised, but all follow-up things deeper down the chain don't have to be 14:38:16 <maddy_> ok.. 14:38:41 <peter1138> or rather, they are already running on all systems 14:51:58 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.196.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:46 *** Pecio [~fgh@agjk65.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd [] 15:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 832.7*30065 15:12:19 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 25035125.5 15:19:43 *** frodus [~frodus_de@static243-243-8.mimer.net] has joined #openttd 15:22:26 <LordAro> planetmaker, Wolf01, etc: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2504/ :) 15:23:35 <LordAro> gets very long very quickly :) 15:27:55 <dihedral> Ammler -> http://www.cartoonland.de/archiv/schweizer-felsenputzer/ 15:35:26 <LordAro> interesting, i seem to have generated a 100 line, 50MB file :) 15:35:33 *** frodus [~frodus_de@static243-243-8.mimer.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:51 <LordAro> gedit is having trouble opening it 15:36:21 <Wolf01> last time I froze my computer after ~200 lines 15:37:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "this was an april's fools joke from 2009" 15:38:02 <maddy_> gedit doesn't seem very efficient with large files, I've noticed it too 15:38:27 <LordAro> hmm, geany didn't do much better 15:39:25 <Eddi|zuHause> with the "overabundance of RAM", programs have lost the ability to handle partial files 15:40:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember cursing a lot the last time i searched for a hex editor that can open a whole partition 15:41:45 <LordAro> no wait, geany handled it fine 15:41:55 <LordAro> the file wasn't formatted correctly 15:42:05 <Wolf01> and developers lost the ability to write programs which could run in a TI-83 calculator, despite doing the same work 15:42:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it could have been python, and much shorter and easier to run... 15:44:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "for (i = it; i < str.length() && str[it] == str[i]; i++);" <-- what horrible code style is this 15:45:43 <LordAro> i did have it on separate lines, but i decided to make it smaller :L 15:45:54 <TinoDidriksen> For shame. Should be ++i instead. 15:46:04 <Eddi|zuHause> smaller != more elegant 15:46:12 <TinoDidriksen> Readability is much more important than fewer lines. 15:46:41 <LordAro> perhaps :p 15:51:10 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 16:01:20 <andythenorth> o/ 16:01:30 *** mindlesstux [~mindlestu@raspberrypi.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd 16:03:07 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:14:49 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:15:23 <Eddi|zuHause> "Microsoft revives the 'Ping of Death' for IPv6" 16:16:51 <Eddi|zuHause> ohh what fun we had with those in the 90s :p 16:17:10 <MNIM> It's not april first, is it? 16:18:00 <Eddi|zuHause> no, latest patchday :) 16:18:16 <peter1138> hmm 16:18:24 <peter1138> best not to apply it just yet thme 16:18:26 <peter1138> *then 16:20:46 <NGC3982> Evening. 16:23:36 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 16:25:06 <LordAro> /o 16:28:56 <MNIM> friggen patches. 16:29:23 <MNIM> you'd think microsoft would know people have better things to do than updating every time they start up their PC. 16:29:59 <MNIM> I still don't get why they can't just make updates download and install during runtime, like a real OS. 16:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> they do know that, hence why they started shipping out patches only once a month 16:36:16 <MNIM> So now I have a doubly outdated OS, and every once in a while I have to wait an hour instead of ten minutes to update? 16:36:20 <MNIM> ...progress! 16:36:26 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18980.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:38:26 *** dumbdumbgj [~bonghisss@dsl-209-55-75-223.centex.net] has joined #openttd 16:39:33 <dumbdumbgj> Are you looking for a big smelly elephant with green balls? come to WWW.CENTEX.NET" target="_blank">WWW.CENTEX.NET - WE also have black tranny and mushroom sauce... thats WWW.CENTEX.NET" target="_blank">WWW.CENTEX.NET 16:40:07 *** dumbdumbgj [~bonghisss@dsl-209-55-75-223.centex.net] has left #openttd [] 16:40:19 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 16:42:41 <^Spike^> ehm..... ok...... 16:46:03 * andythenorth is bored bored 16:46:38 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 16:48:39 <maddy_> ok I got as far as getting my patch started: added a new signal type and added it to signal gui 16:51:52 <Pinkbeast> Aren't there a limited number of bits for signal types in the map array? 16:53:38 <maddy_> probably, but I only added one new type (7 now, instead of 6 previously) 16:54:22 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 16:54:25 <Pinkbeast> maddy_: Ah, very well. 16:57:03 <Xaroth|Work> wth @ that spam 17:01:27 <V453000> LOL that is awesome :D 17:01:46 <dihedral> @logs 17:01:46 <DorpsGek> dihedral: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 17:03:04 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:10:25 <andythenorth> so I have a request for bigger layouts for FIRS plantation-type industries 17:10:31 * andythenorth wonders how big? 17:11:20 <andythenorth> current biggest is 5x5 17:11:23 <V453000> 64*64 17:11:47 <andythenorth> nice idea 17:11:50 * andythenorth considers it 17:11:58 <Xaroth|Work> that's HUGE :o 17:12:04 <Xaroth|Work> could be fun though 17:12:25 <andythenorth> 64x64, no gaps :P 17:12:35 <andythenorth> you'd have to manually build it in scenarios :P 17:13:18 <Xaroth|Work> openttdcoop could have a ball with a few of those, trying to make the most efficient station evar :P 17:14:11 <V453000> nobody said it would produce proportionally as much :P 17:14:33 <andythenorth> grrr 17:14:39 <andythenorth> FIRS compiles so slow 17:14:43 <andythenorth> it inhibits me working on it :P 17:21:43 <andythenorth> faster faster faster :( 17:22:06 <V453000> how long does it take? 17:22:11 <V453000> nuts takes around 15 minutes I think 17:22:21 *** ST2 [~ST2@bl6-254-79.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:32 <V453000> maybe 10 17:22:40 *** ST2 [~ST2@bl6-254-79.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 17:25:00 <andythenorth> FIRS is 3 mins 17:26:34 <V453000> ... :D 17:27:36 <dihedral> wow - joan takes 1min 44sec (last build), grapes 26 secs, berries (all optional plugins) 31 secs 17:28:09 <Xaroth|Work> o_O 17:28:43 <dihedral> using a single core 17:29:00 <Xaroth|Work> that's java for you 17:29:07 <andythenorth> FISH takes 5s 17:29:26 <andythenorth> nml industry spritelayouts scale horribly afaict 17:30:24 <Xaroth|Work> libottdadmin2 forced recompile takes.. <1s :P 17:30:44 <dihedral> Xaroth, at least i will not have to tell "everybody" how to make the environment in order to run it 17:30:49 <dihedral> compared to ap+ 17:31:09 <Xaroth|Work> make the environment? 17:31:39 <dihedral> setup the environment 17:31:50 <dihedral> ap+ needed expect, tcl expect bindings and what not 17:31:56 <Xaroth|Work> ah, yes 17:32:00 <Xaroth|Work> that.. sucked :P 17:32:03 <dihedral> and it would only run on linux :-) 17:32:19 <Xaroth|Work> now you just have to explain them how to install java :P 17:33:08 <dihedral> and say java -jar <grapes.jar> <configfile> 17:39:54 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffc2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:41:30 <dihedral> quack 17:41:34 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18980.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:16 <andythenorth> these big layouts look stupid 17:43:56 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5117/big_plantation.png 17:44:13 <frosch123> moin 17:44:21 <andythenorth> lo frosch123 17:44:53 <dihedral> andythenorth, i don't think they look stupid 17:45:07 <andythenorth> maybe it just needs to balance better 17:45:18 <andythenorth> seems very repetitive to me 17:45:46 <andythenorth> I guess plantations are repetitive :) 17:46:53 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25722 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2013-08-14 17:46:41 UTC) 17:46:54 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:46:55 <DorpsGek> croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne 17:46:56 <DorpsGek> indonesian - 48 changes by UseYourIllusion, Yoursnotmine 17:46:57 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 2 changes by Stabilitronas 17:46:58 <DorpsGek> swedish - 17 changes by Joel_A 17:46:59 <DorpsGek> tamil - 12 changes by aswn 17:47:44 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:48:06 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 17:48:09 <peter1138> so anyone using btrfs? 17:48:43 <peter1138> seems to be capable of migrating from ext3/4 to btrfs without a needing a backup... 17:49:21 <andythenorth> is it a new british trains newgrf? 17:49:24 <andythenorth> :P 17:49:37 <peter1138> what's a newgrf? 17:50:07 <andythenorth> dunno 17:53:57 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:41 <andythenorth> is this game done yet? 17:54:49 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 18:08:17 <planetmaker> moin 18:08:24 <andythenorth> lo planetmaker 18:10:32 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 18:12:20 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:15:08 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:03 <dihedral> peter1138, good luck 18:19:18 <dihedral> iirc btrfs is still beta 18:23:37 <andythenorth> anyone want to draw cargo icons? 18:23:40 <andythenorth> how wrong can it go? 18:23:44 <andythenorth> need coffee and suchlike 18:23:44 <andythenorth> :P 18:24:41 <krinn> btrfs is flaw by design, and such thing for a fs, should just be its dead 18:24:50 <maddy_> what kind of datatype could I use for something dictionary/hashmap type thing, where I have a key and a corresponding value? 18:24:50 <planetmaker> andythenorth, did you look at NUTS for coffee icons? 18:24:56 <andythenorth> no 18:25:01 <andythenorth> maybe V453000 will draw me some icons? 18:25:08 *** frodus [~frodus_de@static243-243-8.mimer.net] has joined #openttd 18:25:11 <planetmaker> I *think* it has already coffee support. maybe I err 18:25:19 <Eddi|zuHause> maddy_: one of the standard types? 18:25:44 <V453000> I am about to draw coffee this or next week actually 18:25:47 <maddy_> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, where/what are they? 18:25:56 <V453000> will be some box-ish things on flatbeds, so could make those as icons 18:25:57 <krinn> lol maddy_ an AIList 18:26:07 <Eddi|zuHause> how should i know... i don't write c++ :p 18:26:18 <andythenorth> V453000 need Copper, Sugar, Diamonds, Rubber, Coffee 18:26:24 <andythenorth> but too lazy too draw them :) 18:26:36 <V453000> ....... 18:26:41 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/changes/src/graphics/other/cargoicons.png 18:27:01 <andythenorth> I spose copper is just iron ore, but pink :P 18:27:04 <V453000> diamonds are on flatbeds already, you could grab those 18:27:10 <V453000> rest I dont have :) 18:27:14 <andythenorth> sugar is white grain 18:27:21 <V453000> maybe sugar/copper/rubber can be grabbed from hoppers 18:27:29 <andythenorth> coffee comes in a cup? :P 18:27:35 <andythenorth> rubber? 18:27:45 <V453000> coffee will be in boxes on flatbeds 18:27:48 <V453000> rubber is in hoppers 18:27:53 <krinn> andythenorth, i'm not sure oracle won't sue you, they are kinda mad 18:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> coffee should be bulk 18:28:04 <V453000> go see nuts/gfx and look for "hopper" files 18:29:24 <andythenorth> hmm 18:29:29 <andythenorth> maybe too big for icons :) 18:29:39 <andythenorth> they are 10x10 px 18:29:44 <V453000> maglevhopper might be k 18:30:19 <krinn> at that size andythenorth i'm afraid even a cow looks like copper 18:30:49 <V453000> IZ A LIE 18:30:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd be amazed what some people can do with a mere hundred pixels 18:31:32 <andythenorth> biab 18:31:33 <krinn> it's not what people can do, it's what people can see :) 18:31:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause> people can see a LOT of things :) 18:33:34 <krinn> well, i can nearly see nothing on the cargo png, the blue background doesn't help too, but when zooming you can see he manage to really do things 18:34:14 <krinn> lmao the pax is one dude & a woman, but at normal size... it's like waste 18:45:13 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@187.59.233.118] has joined #openttd 18:50:11 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.98.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:50:14 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 18:50:45 <dihedral> night gents 18:50:54 <krinn> going too, night 18:51:17 *** krinn [~krinn@53.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:17 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.13.67] has joined #openttd 18:56:10 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:56:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 19:03:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:07:56 *** ntoskrnl11 [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:10:48 *** ST2 [~ST2@bl6-254-79.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:59 <__ln__> https://www.humblebundle.com/ 19:11:47 *** ST2 [~ST2@bl6-254-79.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 19:18:44 <andythenorth> FIRS compile 19:18:49 <andythenorth> time to make tea 19:23:34 <planetmaker> :-) 19:23:42 <andythenorth> planetmaker: there was a param 'test_industry' for FIRS 19:23:47 <andythenorth> for fast dev compiles 19:23:52 <andythenorth> not sure it works with new makefile? :) 19:24:03 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:24:09 <andythenorth> or I've forgotten how to use it 19:24:32 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/b05f0ef1d40e/diff/scripts/Makefile_nml 19:25:06 <andythenorth> also https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/d25daa81fbbc/diff/scripts/Makefile_nml 19:25:14 <andythenorth> ah 19:25:17 <andythenorth> case sensitive 19:26:29 <Bad_Brett> what the hell? 19:26:30 <Bad_Brett> C:\Program\OpenTTD\data>nmlc --grf TrainTest.grf TrainTest.nml 19:26:30 <Bad_Brett> nmlc ERROR: nmlc: An internal error has occurred: 19:26:30 <Bad_Brett> nmlc-version: 0.3.0.r2063:9e5e21dc5219 19:26:30 <Bad_Brett> Error: (IOError) "cannot identify image file". 19:26:30 <Bad_Brett> Command: ['nmlc', '--grf', 'TrainTest.grf', 'TrainTest.nml'] 19:26:31 <Bad_Brett> Location: File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\PIL\Image.py", line 1980, in open 19:27:29 <andythenorth> looks like a PIL error :) 19:27:29 <Bad_Brett> it seems that this error should occur if you try to use pcx files - which I don't do 19:27:44 <planetmaker> pcx files should work, though 19:27:54 <planetmaker> afaik. Unless pil doesn't support them ;-) 19:28:57 <Xaroth|Work> depends on how PIL is compiled 19:29:06 <Xaroth|Work> it supports it if you have the system libraries for it 19:29:11 <Bad_Brett> the strange thing is that it worked a few hours ago 19:29:20 <Bad_Brett> maybe some image file has been corrupted 19:29:32 <Bad_Brett> in the cache maybe? 19:30:23 <Xaroth|Work> can you try removing PIL 19:30:26 <Xaroth|Work> then installing Pillow 19:30:43 <Xaroth|Work> (through pip works best) 19:31:24 <Bad_Brett> i'll try that if clearing the cache won't do the trick 19:31:32 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.13.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:41 <planetmaker> Xaroth, I first indeed would guess a corrupted image file 19:33:56 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: yeh, most likely 19:34:06 <Xaroth|Work> but it could also be some obscure issue with PIL that Pillow has solved 19:34:49 <Bad_Brett> since i could compile the same file earlier today, it seems doesn't seem very likely though 19:35:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18980.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:35:33 <planetmaker> Xaroth, very unlikely... and... pillow with nmlc is supported... but I can't say that it's well tested 19:35:58 <Xaroth|Work> Pillow is backwards compatible with PIL 19:36:04 <planetmaker> in principle 19:36:09 <Xaroth|Work> and PIL should be counted as deprecated tbh 19:37:05 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/5012 is the other side of the medal ;-) 19:37:38 <Bad_Brett> so the search begins... 8192 png's 19:37:39 <planetmaker> the version which caused the report is the pillow support ;-) 19:38:01 <Bad_Brett> perhaps it's quicker to create fresh copies :) 19:38:16 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, just look for create / modification time? 19:38:23 <planetmaker> since it last worked 19:38:52 <Bad_Brett> that may indeed do the trick 19:39:00 <Xaroth|Work> how is that the other side of the coin, pm? 19:40:51 <planetmaker> (slightly) different call paths 19:41:15 <planetmaker> those are different. changing that broke (some) PIL installs 19:41:43 <Xaroth|Work> easy_install can cock up sometimes, yes 19:42:18 <andythenorth> we should just write a buildout for whole thing :P 19:42:25 <andythenorth> but buildout is a strange beast 19:43:15 <Xaroth|Work> pip + requirements.txt should often be enough 19:44:47 <andythenorth> I would (and do) virtualenv in that case :) 19:45:23 <wakou2> http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/08/fictional-koana-islands-maps/ 19:45:39 <wakou2> Might be interesting for some of you... 19:46:06 <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: if pip works and you have an up-to-date requirements.txt , setting it up in venv should be a walk in the park 19:46:33 <andythenorth> I could be convinced easily :) 19:46:46 <andythenorth> I have no experience with pip and requirements.txt 19:46:51 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:46:56 <Xaroth|Work> pip is the better variant of easy_install 19:47:03 <andythenorth> I have experienced multiple other python packaging systems - and their problems 19:47:26 <andythenorth> currently installing nml is a faff 19:47:43 <andythenorth> it took me several days of attempts the first time 19:47:52 <Xaroth|Work> and requirements.txt is just a text file with 1 package (plus optional version specifier) per line 19:48:01 <planetmaker> preferred method: hg checkout and put that in the path :D 19:48:04 <Xaroth|Work> so you can tell pip to install all requirements in 1 go 19:49:22 <andythenorth> add it to nml? ;) 19:49:23 <Xaroth|Work> and, at the same time, your setup.py file can read requirements.txt to get the proper values for setuptools/distutils 19:49:29 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml 19:49:35 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:50:16 <andythenorth> current faff http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Getting_started#Installing_manually_.28any_system.29 19:50:22 <andythenorth> which has a number of issues 19:51:40 <planetmaker> I think anyone is welcome to submit patch(es) to improve the situation 19:52:00 <planetmaker> tbh, I didn't yet care much about the installation issue(s) 19:52:17 <andythenorth> I am trying to remember the actual issues I had, rather than the issues caused by bad / conflicting advice on irc :) 19:52:21 <andythenorth> both happened :P 19:53:47 <planetmaker> :-) 19:54:20 <andythenorth> problems I recall 19:54:33 <andythenorth> - there is a fair chance that user has a broken setuptools :P 19:54:45 <andythenorth> - some versions of PIL are just borked and don't install 19:54:51 <andythenorth> (PIL is known bad, hence pillow) 19:54:56 <Xaroth|Work> yep 19:54:57 <planetmaker> yes 19:55:02 <andythenorth> - if you are on OS X, all bets are off 19:55:06 * andythenorth is on OS X 19:55:11 <planetmaker> :-) 19:55:14 <Xaroth|Work> OSX is known to fuck packages up 19:55:28 <Bad_Brett> when everything else fails: restart your computer :) 19:55:30 <Xaroth|Work> python, perl, heck they even managed to mess up PHP PEAR :| 19:55:34 <andythenorth> if you are given advice about screwing with your path for specific python packages, this is PROBABLY wrong 19:55:56 <andythenorth> - get a clean version of python 2.6 or 2.7 19:56:01 <andythenorth> - never get python from macports 19:56:05 <andythenorth> - never get anything from macports 19:56:11 <Xaroth|Work> yep 19:56:13 <planetmaker> well... works for me :D 19:56:20 <frosch123> night 19:56:23 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffc2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 19:56:35 <andythenorth> - installing python modules system wide is a cluster fuck if you work on multiple projects 19:56:45 <Xaroth|Work> yep 19:56:50 <Xaroth|Work> use virtualenv :) 19:56:54 <andythenorth> - always use a virtualenv, even if people tell you not to 19:57:14 <Xaroth|Work> unless you're extremely stubborn, then good luck fixing things yourself if you cock up :P 19:57:29 <andythenorth> yup 19:57:30 <andythenorth> so 19:57:38 <andythenorth> what I learned (for OS X) 19:57:53 <andythenorth> - use buildout.python to get all the pythons https://github.com/collective/buildout.python 19:57:56 <planetmaker> anyway... back to creating new DevZone :D 19:57:58 <andythenorth> - alias the pythons correctly 19:58:13 <andythenorth> - create a virtual env for your newgrf projects 19:58:20 <andythenorth> - install the nmlc deps in the virtualenv 19:58:26 <andythenorth> - pray that setuptools doesn't screw you 19:58:33 <andythenorth> - pray that PIL doesn't screw you 19:58:36 <andythenorth> - profit! :) 19:58:57 <andythenorth> and then all is well 19:59:17 <andythenorth> planetmaker: *new* DevZone? o_O 20:01:31 *** frodus_dev [~frodus_de@static243-243-8.mimer.net] has joined #openttd 20:01:31 *** frodus [~frodus_de@static243-243-8.mimer.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:17 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.50.103] has joined #openttd 20:11:46 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.50.103] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 20:12:12 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.50.103] has joined #openttd 20:19:21 <andythenorth> this do for a trading post? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5120/trading_post.png 20:19:24 <andythenorth> I'm not very inspired 20:20:26 <Bad_Brett> looks awesome 20:20:31 <gynter> I like it. 20:20:52 <gynter> Can you add a crane maybe? 20:21:11 <andythenorth> I removed the cranes 20:21:17 <andythenorth> :) 20:21:18 <gynter> lol 20:21:21 <Xaroth|Work> should add tiles or something so people who want can expand it a tad (like the diagonal shores above and below it) 20:21:34 <andythenorth> just use stations 20:21:40 <Xaroth|Work> yeh 20:21:41 <andythenorth> or someone made FIRS object tiles I think 20:23:43 <Wolf01> 1113122113121113222123211211222123211231131122211211131221131112311332211213211321322113311211131112132123222113111221131221 LordAro, could you check this please? 20:24:59 <LordAro> Wolf01, which iteration? 20:25:06 <Wolf01> 16 20:25:38 <Wolf01> I was explaining this to a friend, and I let my hands continue... 20:25:50 <LordAro> 11131221131211131231121113112221121321132132211331222113112211 <-- that's 14 :L 20:26:09 <LordAro> 311311222113111231131112132112311321322112111312211312111322212311322113212221 <-- that's 15 20:26:21 <LordAro> 132113213221133112132113311211131221121321131211132221123113112221131112311332111213211322211312113211 <-- 16 20:26:45 <Wolf01> then is the 17th 20:27:09 <Wolf01> or I missed some numbers 20:27:33 <Wolf01> yes, I did 20:28:02 <LordAro> 11131221131211132221232112111312212321123113112221121113122113111231133221121321132132211331121321231231121113122113322113111221131221 <-- 17 20:28:11 <LordAro> looks close :) 20:31:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6A859.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:37:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D641.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:38:29 <andythenorth> does anyone want a truck set? 20:38:42 <andythenorth> I keep _nearly_ starting one 20:39:09 <Bad_Brett> i want one 20:39:47 <andythenorth> what does it do? 20:40:13 <Bad_Brett> something that hasn't been done before? 20:41:09 <Xaroth|Work> A space one would be cool as well 20:44:15 <andythenorth> space trucks! 20:44:37 <Bad_Brett> i must say, that Mars One project is quite exciting 20:45:14 <andythenorth> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47881312@N04/4429363412 20:45:16 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.50.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:45:52 <andythenorth> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47881312@N04/6659600677 20:46:17 <Bad_Brett> quite awesome 20:47:34 <andythenorth> I like imagination for made up vehicles :) 20:47:39 <andythenorth> need V453000 for that 20:48:52 <Bad_Brett> hehe 20:50:22 <andythenorth> I feel like this trading post should have cobblestone dock 20:50:24 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:50:30 <andythenorth> but then the in-game dock won't match :) 20:51:48 <Bad_Brett> unless you add a matching dock... but that's not possible at the moment, right? 20:52:49 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 20:52:49 <Bad_Brett> at least not with nml 20:53:00 *** frodus [~frodus_de@static243-243-8.mimer.net] has joined #openttd 20:53:14 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5123/cobble_dock.png 20:54:08 *** frodus_dev [~frodus_de@static243-243-8.mimer.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:54:59 <andythenorth> ach, maybe I try that 20:55:17 <Bad_Brett> it looks quite good if you ask me 20:56:14 <andythenorth> I'm using it 20:56:25 <andythenorth> it needs another building or something 20:56:30 <andythenorth> but it will do for now 20:56:43 <andythenorth> at least there are no longer 4 'port' industries all look same 20:57:43 <Bad_Brett> yeah that's good 20:59:31 <Bad_Brett> ugh... using extra turning angles is my stupidest idea so far... i'm about to go insane 21:00:08 <andythenorth> tmwftlb :) 21:00:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18980.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:06 <Bad_Brett> you can say that again 21:01:34 <Xaroth|Work> too much something for too little something 21:01:46 <Bad_Brett> yeah i know 21:01:53 <Bad_Brett> however 21:03:40 <Bad_Brett> i would like to be able to use longer vehicles, and i hate when they split on the middle 21:04:30 <Bad_Brett> i think i have a solid approach, however, the code is getting so complex that it drives me insane :) 21:05:14 <andythenorth> sometimes you're fighting the game 21:05:19 <andythenorth> it is what it is :) 21:05:24 <andythenorth> don't let me discourage you though 21:06:45 <Bad_Brett> :) 21:07:29 <Bad_Brett> everything is eddi's fault... it was him who showed me CETS 21:07:50 <planetmaker> lol 21:08:17 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, it's important to have goals. But also important to get things done. In smaller steps than re-inventing the world :-) 21:08:28 <planetmaker> (even when that can be your goal) 21:09:14 <Bad_Brett> yeah i know... however, sometimes doing the right preperations may save time in the end 21:10:48 <andythenorth> hmm 21:10:54 <andythenorth> I need some idea for Bulk Terminal port 21:11:04 <andythenorth> problem is, cargos might change per economy 21:11:25 <Rubidium> that's no problem in a stuff economy 21:11:34 <andythenorth> good point 21:11:47 <andythenorth> I should make a stuff economy easter egg 21:12:17 <planetmaker> ^^ :-) 21:12:29 <planetmaker> is there two kind of stuff or only one? 21:12:57 <andythenorth> three 21:13:03 <andythenorth> red, green and blue stuff 21:13:16 <andythenorth> this trading post is no good :( 21:13:22 * andythenorth has looked at it again 21:13:28 <andythenorth> the life of a newgrf author is hard :P 21:14:09 <Bad_Brett> you tell me 21:14:26 <Bad_Brett> by the way, how was the tt-forums get-together? 21:15:56 * andythenorth might have to draw something, instead of copy+paste existing sprites :/ 21:18:47 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:18:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 21:20:45 <andythenorth> ugh 21:20:53 <andythenorth> 17k downloads of FISH 2 alpha :( 21:20:55 <andythenorth> and it's not good 21:22:19 <Xaroth|Work> right, cleaned up openttd-admin.py ... stripped out most of it, now to re-write it O_O 21:24:01 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-125-152.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:31:51 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:33:58 <Bad_Brett> would someone be interested in an accordion grf? 21:34:22 <Bad_Brett> http://www.badbrett.se/mess.jpg 21:34:56 <Bad_Brett> :) 21:40:05 <LordAro> that looks... bad 21:40:08 <planetmaker> good night 21:40:18 <LordAro> night planetmaker 21:40:22 <Xaroth|Work> nn pm 21:41:14 <andythenorth> bulk terminal? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5126/bulk_terminal.png 21:41:17 <andythenorth> approximately 21:42:45 <Xaroth|Work> nice 21:42:56 <Bad_Brett> very nice indeed 21:43:24 <andythenorth> it will do for now, as an idea 21:43:27 * andythenorth bed 21:43:35 <andythenorth> bye 21:43:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:46:00 <Bad_Brett> LordAro, what's the status on your AI? 21:46:14 <LordAro> umm, working, i think 21:46:26 <LordAro> i haven't looked at it in about 2 years :/ 21:48:20 <Bad_Brett> is it only for road vehicles? 21:52:21 <LordAro> buses only 21:53:43 <Bad_Brett> ah ok 21:53:56 <Bad_Brett> i remember using it a lot a few years ago 21:54:32 <LordAro> yayz :) 21:55:23 <LordAro> tbh, now that i understand a bit (quite a lot) more about coding, i'd probably scrap the whole thing and start again :L 22:00:59 <Bad_Brett> one thing i remember last time i tried the different AI's, was that high running costs seemed to drive them out of business quickly... the ones that could handle trains never seemed to survive if I used the NARS grf 22:02:33 <Bad_Brett> my fear is that no AI will be able to handle the gold rush scenario either :( 22:08:01 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-165-39-164.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:15:21 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 22:19:59 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:40 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 22:21:14 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.194.199] has joined #openttd 22:27:06 *** krinn [~krinn@53.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 22:56:39 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:56:47 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:58:33 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.233.118] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC is updating to v1.9.2 Beta Build (140813-4) 64 Bit] 22:59:17 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.233.118] has joined #openttd 22:59:37 *** amiller [~amiller@c-69-255-193-198.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:00:37 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:01:21 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 23:04:37 *** killertester [~igor@i185-11-148-51.kmv.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:14:05 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:20:30 <wakou2> Hi folks what grfs should I use if I want to start date at (say) 1900? 23:21:11 <V453000> yes 23:23:36 <krinn> wakou2: if it's to get vehicle, egrvts gave u horses 23:24:11 <wakou2> krinn: TY and early trains? 23:25:50 <krinn> wakou2, i don't know, trains appears ~ 1940 i think 23:25:57 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:26:18 <krinn> http://wiki.openttd.org/Kirby_Paul_Tank 23:26:20 <krinn> 1925 23:27:00 <V453000> most newgrf train sets start in 1920 23:27:11 <V453000> 1920 could be UKRS2 or NARS I guess 23:27:13 <krinn> http://wiki.openttd.org/2cc_TrainSet#Table_of_included_vehicles 23:27:25 <krinn> 1902... 23:27:26 <V453000> other train sets arent even noteworthy 23:28:49 <krinn> V453000, trying jedi tricks on his mind ? 23:29:02 <V453000> what jedi tricks :d 23:29:19 <krinn> "this is not the newGRF you are seeking" 23:29:53 <V453000> 2cc set is bulltrash, everybody knows that 23:30:30 <krinn> so if so many knows it, maybe it's worth mention it no? 23:30:57 <V453000> definitely not 23:32:13 <V453000> im not sure if a newGRF being known as useless means it is noteworthy 23:33:04 <wakou2> & just getting zbase update from online content... 273Mb!! Is that right?? 23:33:29 <krinn> "crappy state" is a personal thing, while popular, even bad for some or many, it should have something worth if everyone pick it up 23:33:34 <krinn> wakou2, yes, big file 23:33:58 <wakou2> Ok... (drums fingers) :) 23:34:17 <V453000> well since everyone picks up everything (to at least try it), I do not see how your sentence has any valid logic either 23:35:48 <krinn> wakou2 has just prove that theory is wrong :) 23:36:34 <V453000> k now I dont understand at all 23:37:40 <krinn> since everyone picks up everything -> if everybody was doing that, wakou2 would have done it and don't ask what newGRF to use 23:42:28 <V453000> ofc because he is just plain lazy and doesnt even bother trying things 23:42:31 <V453000> I dont even consider those people 23:43:54 <krinn> another new theory base on facts ? 23:44:43 <V453000> lazy people have no place in this game 23:45:05 <V453000> they will just get bored sooner or later anyway so why bother 23:45:39 <krinn> i dunno, maybe because you're the bored one here, assuming everyone is lazy just because asking something 23:48:33 <V453000> so you consider asking in some IRC channel a better option than trying to download the train set and check yourself when trains come out 23:49:12 <krinn> considering how many trainset are there, it's just enough yes, but he was asking vehicle, not specially trainset 23:50:16 <V453000> I still think trying, discovering, and learning on your own is a lot more productive 23:50:31 *** frodus [~frodus_de@static243-243-8.mimer.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:50:49 <V453000> soo good night 23:50:56 <krinn> good night too 23:56:36 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]