Log for #openttd on 20th August 2013:
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00:38:18  *** Supercheese [~Superchee@] has joined #openttd
00:38:56  <Supercheese> Huzzah, patch finally working
00:52:47  <Supercheese> time to celebrate
01:13:40  <SamanthaD> what patch?
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02:25:48  <Supercheese> SamanthaD: a source-code patch version of this grf:
02:25:56  <Supercheese> So it will work with any industry set
02:28:41  <SamanthaD> Oh, I like that a lot!
02:28:54  <SamanthaD> save me from having to do it by hand!
02:29:01  <SamanthaD> thanks!
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02:49:57  <Supercheese> Yeah, I think many people would like that feature, it seems everyone except the devs :P
02:50:43  <Supercheese> Now, which .cpp file deals with advanced settings...
03:06:32  <Supercheese> If I add a new advanced setting, do I have to bump the savegame version?
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03:11:12  <Supercheese> ah, it seems NOW I have to edit english.txt
03:15:59  <SamanthaD> oh!
03:16:24  <SamanthaD> Supercheese: don't forget to edit src/table/settings.ini
03:16:37  <Supercheese> just what I'm currently doing :)
03:16:41  <SamanthaD> cool :3
03:16:54  <SamanthaD> I just merged a patch and had to tweak the settings so it's fresh on my mind
03:17:04  <SamanthaD> it's not working quite right though... have to debug it before I post it
03:19:27  <SamanthaD> also, I usually add 1000 to the savegame version to indicate that it's a patched version
03:21:31  <Supercheese> Oops, I should probably be writing this patch based on a clean ottd, rather than my already-custom-patched version  -_-
03:30:25  <SamanthaD> :p
03:30:28  <SamanthaD> yeah, probably
03:30:36  <Supercheese> ah well
03:30:52  <Supercheese> it compiles now, I don't want to risk breaking something by cleaning the source :P
03:31:10  <Supercheese> I'll extract a proper patch once everything works 100%
03:31:19  <SamanthaD> got my "upstream" repo which feeds my patch repos (only one) which feeds my "play" repo that I combine all the patches together and actually play with
03:31:32  <SamanthaD> what other patches are you running?
03:31:51  <Supercheese> Show Vehicles in Tunnels and several custom, personal patches
03:32:06  <SamanthaD> ah
03:32:11  <SamanthaD> you should publish 'em!
03:32:17  <Supercheese> no, they're really silly
03:32:25  <Supercheese> like, "comment out this whole block"
03:32:39  <Supercheese> to get rid of some annoying "features"
03:32:54  <Supercheese> i.e. local authority denying you construction rights
03:32:55  <SamanthaD> aaaaah
03:33:02  <Supercheese> just commented out that check :P
03:33:03  <SamanthaD> THOSE HIPPIE BASTARDS!
03:33:17  <Supercheese> so I can give the finger to the authority and they can't do jack about it now
03:33:56  <Supercheese> I wouldn't even call it a "patch", per se
03:34:36  <SamanthaD> I've been contemplating a patch that makes it so that the local authority is harder to "buy off" with trees
03:34:48  <SamanthaD> possibly countering the difficulty with making them harder to PO with tree destruction
03:35:10  <SamanthaD> point is, the local authority is more of a nuisance that any player with 20-30k in the bank can pretty much ignore
03:35:32  <Supercheese> local authority restrictions should be disable-able in the settings, IMO
03:35:38  <SamanthaD> it would be more interesting if they were actually a feature that you had to really plan around
03:35:41  <SamanthaD> oh yeah! I agree
03:36:20  <SamanthaD> well... at least parts of it. What I would do is disable them caring about trees and remove their ability to prevent you from building stations but keep their ability to stop you blowing up buildings and roads
03:36:46  <Supercheese> Ah, now that I think about it, I think that's all my "patch" does
03:37:00  <Supercheese> I didn't comment out the restriction on destroying things, just building things
03:37:13  <SamanthaD> ah!
03:37:20  <Supercheese> because there is already a cheat for that: Magic Bulldozer!
03:37:31  <SamanthaD> I should write up the patch, complete with options, and post it!
03:37:40  <Supercheese> I think there is a patch, actually
03:37:43  <Supercheese> old-ish
03:37:46  <SamanthaD> hmm...
03:37:54  <SamanthaD> might be easier to write it from scratch
03:38:14  <Supercheese>
03:38:15  <SamanthaD> but if you could link me the old patch could be helpful in pointing to the apropos sections of code
03:38:35  <SamanthaD> okay
03:38:36  <Supercheese> ninja'd :P
03:38:42  <SamanthaD> not quite what I have in mind but useful!
03:38:44  <SamanthaD> thanks!
03:39:07  <Supercheese> yeah, would be better in the cheat menu
03:39:30  <SamanthaD> I dunno... I'd rather stuff it in the normal menu
03:39:46  <SamanthaD> but I'd balance the ease that it gives you with the difficulty that comes from it
03:40:10  <SamanthaD> as in, you can build stations no matter what but you can't bribe the city by planting trees, either
03:40:53  <SamanthaD> someone could exploit it by turning it on and off I guess but...
03:58:38  <Supercheese> Great success, patch seems to be working 100%
03:58:44  <SamanthaD> yay!
03:58:57  <Supercheese> now I have to figure out the savegame stuff
03:58:58  <SamanthaD> now to de-lace your custom patches :p
03:59:16  <Supercheese> I haven't touched saveload code
03:59:25  <SamanthaD> ah
03:59:33  <Supercheese> not sure if I have to
04:00:25  <SamanthaD> I'm not qualified to answer that question :p
04:09:04  <Supercheese> I guess if saveload is broken, that's not 100%
04:09:07  <Supercheese> >_>
04:12:44  <SamanthaD> oops!
04:16:39  <Supercheese> Well, the actual functionality looks good at least
04:16:49  <Supercheese> I'll have to ask devs about saveload stuff
04:17:11  <scshunt> nice, what sort of patch?
04:17:38  <Supercheese> should be a few dozen lines up in the IRC log
04:17:43  <Supercheese> scroll up a bit for a link
04:18:05  <Supercheese> well, not the first link you'll find, the second
04:18:28  <scshunt> Supercheese: the cliff's notes?
04:18:36  <Supercheese> Lemme mash the up arrow a bit
04:18:41  <SamanthaD> scshunt: it makes it so that stations are named by nearby industries
04:18:52  <Supercheese> SamanthaD: a source-code patch version of this grf:
04:18:56  <Supercheese> there we go
04:19:00  <scshunt> ah, cool
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06:23:02  <_habnabit> i'm using openttd trunk (g67cb7d4def7d2fb7d55071cf076bbaccc63e3802 with patches from the cargodist guy) and the loading behavior on trains seems wrong; two trains waiting for the same cargo type are filling up at the same rate, despite that 'use improved loading' is on. i don't _think_ the additional patches would affect this
06:23:13  <_habnabit> i suppose i should try with vanilla 1.3.2
06:25:50  <planetmaker> _habnabit, if you use trunk... what do you need the "patches from the cargodist guy"?
06:26:13  <_habnabit>
06:26:27  <planetmaker> yes... but why? That's integrated into trunk meanwhile
06:26:35  <planetmaker> you must be using a very old trunk
06:26:40  <_habnabit> hm
06:26:52  <_habnabit> svn r25640
06:27:04  <planetmaker> and indeed, exactly those patches for cargodist of course affect loading
06:27:34  <planetmaker> err... 25640?
06:27:42  <planetmaker> that has cargodist already without patches
06:28:28  <_habnabit> yeah; this repo is afaik additional bugfixes for cargodist. i'd been working on patches of my own built on cargodist before it got incorporated into trunk, which is why i've been using this repo
06:28:44  <_habnabit> i'm downloading 1.3.2 now though
06:29:05  <planetmaker> make all your work based on trunk. Not stable
06:29:15  <planetmaker> stable for instance, has no cargodist yet
06:29:19  <_habnabit> oh, right
06:29:27  <planetmaker> and patches based on stable... meh. Not useful
06:30:52  <_habnabit> oops, nachos time. back in a bit, and then i'll try r25734
06:32:01  <planetmaker> _habnabit, considering that cargodist is now in trunk, I would not recommend any longer to use ulf's repo for patches being based on. After all he can commit real fixes to OpenTTD trunk :-)
06:35:22  <wakou2> guys I have seen you use 'see' and 'tell' on here. Can't find any info and can't remember precisely the syntax, are they channel-specific? do I just do !seen username  ?
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06:37:46  <_habnabit> planetmaker, haha, okay
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07:09:22  <_habnabit> planetmaker, seems to be fine now. even tried rebasing my changes on top of the most recent trunk and it still looks good
07:09:28  <_habnabit> wonder what changed!
07:13:09  <planetmaker> @seen wakou2
07:13:09  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: wakou2 was last seen in #openttd 37 minutes and 47 seconds ago: <wakou2> guys I have seen you use 'see' and 'tell' on here. Can't find any info and can't remember precisely the syntax, are they channel-specific? do I just do !seen username  ?
07:13:31  <planetmaker> it's channel-specific
07:13:41  <wakou2> planetmaker: Thanks!
07:15:33  <planetmaker> @help seen
07:15:33  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself.
07:17:03  <planetmaker> also checkout /whowas
07:19:34  <V453000>  /whowillbe
07:19:57  <planetmaker> rainbow-unicorn?
07:20:10  <V453000> who knows
07:20:24  <V453000> fuck I should make slug with 1 eye
07:20:31  <V453000> thats basically an unicorn
07:32:50  <planetmaker> nah. that's a cyclops
07:33:15  <__ln__> V453000: *a unicorn, not an
07:34:59  <V453000> asdf
07:35:11  <__ln__> you're welcome
07:35:27  <V453000> thanks.
07:35:43  <V453000> ok pm you win, horn.
07:36:56  <V453000> AND STUFF :DDDD
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10:08:59  <andythenorth> planetmaker: facepalm wrt translations :P
10:10:08  <planetmaker> :-)
10:10:35  <planetmaker> I heard rumors that the situation will improve in the near future ;-)
10:11:06  <planetmaker> oh... and I see what you mean :D
10:15:04  <V453000> andythenorth: you are doing new css for all openttdcoop webpages I heard
10:15:05  <V453000> :>
10:15:29  <planetmaker> starting with a decent redmine theme :D
10:16:29  <andythenorth> :(
10:16:32  * andythenorth back to work
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10:17:02  <planetmaker> lol, we scared him :D
10:18:45  <V453000> :(
10:20:56  <V453000> QUIZ TIME
10:21:01  <V453000> find what is wrong in the following sentence
10:21:02  <V453000> [12:20] <+Stablean> <bug_sniper> sorry for distracting you with my boat crash
10:41:04  <planetmaker> 'boat' and 'distracting you'
10:41:17  <planetmaker> not sure about 'sorry' :-P
10:46:19  <V453000> how about "boat crash"
10:47:02  <planetmaker> :-)
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12:25:45  <LordAro> oh hey, york uni sent me a free raspberrypi :)
12:26:05  <LordAro> so, now i've got 2 mostly unused rasppi's :L
12:26:38  <LordAro> any ideas as to what to do with them? :L
12:26:50  <__ln__> you could ping localhost
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12:30:26  <LordAro> sounds useful :p
12:31:38  <Xaroth|Work> make a bitcoin miner
12:31:53  <LordAro> yup, between 0.145ms and 0.165 delay :p
12:32:02  <LordAro> bitcoins scare me
12:32:23  <LordAro> i did try a while ago, but it confused me and i gave up :L
12:34:07  <Belugas> hello
12:34:10  <peter1138> hi
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12:35:17  <Belugas> sir peter :)
12:35:21  <DanMacK> Hey all
12:35:32  <Belugas> sir Dan, welcome
12:36:14  <DanMacK> Anyone seen andy about?
12:36:32  <V453000> moo moooo moo mooo moo moo moo
12:36:33  <V453000> You have just witnessed cows going home.
12:37:02  <peter1138> On second thought, let's not go to #openttd. 'Tis a silly place.
12:37:30  <Belugas> hehehe
12:37:32  <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth
12:37:32  <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 2 hours, 20 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: * andythenorth back to work
12:37:42  <DanMacK> Dang it, missed him again
12:39:30  <LordAro> V453000 and planetmaker scared him off :p
12:40:00  <V453000> :>
12:40:03  <V453000> mu
12:41:01  <LordAro> mew:
12:45:43  <planetmaker> hey DanMacK :-)
12:46:08  <DanMacK> How goes it?
12:46:48  <planetmaker> quite well, I think. How about you?
12:47:01  <DanMacK> Can't complain
12:48:03  <planetmaker> :-)
12:55:01  <Terkhen> hello
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13:03:54  <LordAro> "dbg: [driver] extmidi: set volume not implemented" <-- how long has it been since this bit of code was touched?
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13:05:06  <peter1138> LordAro, why?
13:05:29  <peter1138> We should probably just disable the volume control :)
13:05:31  <LordAro> because it's my only recognised music driver, and it's not working ><
13:06:50  <V453000> just disable sound altogether :>
13:08:35  <LordAro> and i can't get (lib)timidity to be recognised either
13:12:51  <peter1138> So what player are you trying to use with extmidi?
13:14:29  <LordAro> ... not sure
13:14:35  <LordAro> how do i set one?
13:16:50  <peter1138> hmm, default is timidity
13:17:52  <LordAro> ok, i managed to actually install libtimidity (rather than just timidity) but still no sound
13:18:08  <peter1138> libtimidity is a compile-time thing
13:18:34  <peter1138> does timidity work if you manually run it?
13:19:23  <LordAro> yup
13:19:43  <LordAro> "timidity" works perfectly
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13:22:10  * LordAro has to go afk, but will be back later
13:22:21  <LordAro> feel free to offer suggestions/debug in the mean time though :)
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13:22:54  <LordAro> lack of documentation in the src/music/* files is shocking :p
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13:28:02  <LordAro> wait, now it's working fine
13:28:17  <LordAro> maybe it wasn't getting initialised correctly?
13:28:40  <peter1138> probably a problem with access sound devices/mixers incorrectly
13:28:54  <LordAro> perhaps
13:29:29  <LordAro> but wait, my self complied version with libtimidity still doesn't work
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13:29:35  <LordAro> but the extmidi now does...
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13:31:24  <DanMacK> Hey smallfly
13:31:28  <smallfly> hey :)
13:34:40  <peter1138> i never used libtimidity
13:34:48  <peter1138> i had it installed once but ottd never picked it up
13:37:23  <LordAro> either way, i've seen reports about it for a while now, and libtimidity hasn't been developed for a while, perhaps it should be removed?
13:37:28  * LordAro -> proerply afk
13:39:23  <peter1138> it was added for an obscure platform anyway
13:42:45  <maddy_> I guess ability to enable/disable newgrfs on the fly for existing savegames has been asked like 100 times and has been determined as unfeasible?
13:43:47  <peter1138> it was possible but was specifically disabled
13:43:57  <peter1138> as it just-doesn't-work
13:44:10  <maddy_> yeah
13:45:47  <DanMacK> It was done to prevent people posting bug reports from them screwing up their games
13:46:37  <V453000> as a result more of them ask if it is possible ... big difference :)
13:46:48  <DanMacK> lmao
13:47:39  <planetmaker> V453000, yes, big difference
13:47:58  <planetmaker> saying "won't work" takes 3 seconds. Investigating a crash 3 hours :-)
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13:48:35  <V453000> ah you mean idiots posted reports without admitting they changed newGRFs
13:48:44  <V453000> myeah that is a problem :)
13:50:00  <planetmaker> similar to the guy yesterday... like "what newgrfs do I need to get XY? It works on server Z!". And after 20 minutes he admits to using a custom-compiled version specifically made for that server. Yeah... right
13:50:07  <V453000> :DDDDDDDDd
13:50:16  <V453000> true, didnt realize that option
13:50:33  <maddy_> just need to start a new game every time I discover some cool newgrf which I want to use :)
13:50:48  <V453000> that is the best way
13:50:58  <planetmaker> maddy_, yes. Alternatively you add the newgrf and destroy your current savegame. Sounds better?
13:50:59  <alluke> not
13:51:01  <maddy_> I know, I just never get to properly play a game to the end :)
13:51:05  <V453000> though I often change NUTS in running game :)
13:51:09  <alluke> i always shove newgrfs into my existing games
13:51:45  <peter1138> cool story
13:52:20  <alluke> havent broken anything yet
13:52:46  <maddy_> alluke: do you have custom version if it's disabled by default?
13:53:08  <alluke> that cab be done in openttd.cfg
13:53:12  <alluke> can*
13:53:44  <maddy_> doesn't make sense to me
13:53:54  <alluke> newgrf_developer_tools = true
13:54:07  <maddy_> oh, ok
13:54:23  <alluke> change from false to true and itll work
13:54:29  <planetmaker> alluke, and now please also explain all the possible consequences
13:54:37  <alluke> like?
13:54:38  <planetmaker> which newgrf changes to particularily avoid etc
13:54:45  <maddy_> I see people tried to keep this information from me...
13:54:49  <planetmaker> exactly. you don't know. And you don't explain
13:55:02  <alluke> well dont remove vehicle sets if you have vehicles from that set in use
13:55:35  <alluke> if i need to do that i always sell them before changing the grf
13:55:36  <planetmaker> I can give you an example where adding a vehicle set will cause that
13:56:20  <planetmaker> actually... where adding an airport set will.
13:56:31  <alluke> airport graphics?
13:56:38  <planetmaker> yeah. Surprised?
13:56:52  <alluke> ive changed airports many times without problems
13:57:01  <planetmaker> doesn't make it safe
13:57:28  <maddy_> alluke: sounds like you have just been lucky, there could be hidden consequences which aren't immediately visible
13:57:38  <planetmaker> I can give you a map, or prepare it, where adding opengfx+airports will disable all the other newgrfs. Because they want it
13:57:40  <alluke> maybe
13:57:47  <alluke> but i enjoy my luck as long as it lasts
13:57:47  <planetmaker> thus destroy your game
13:58:27  <maddy_> alluke: also you've gone against the official recommendations of the devs, thus...causing all kinda of bad karma which could come back at you
13:58:35  <planetmaker> as any newgrf can check for the presence or not-presence of any other newgrf, and any newgrf can disable itself or even any other, anything can happen
13:58:40  <planetmaker> in principle
13:59:02  <DanMacK> BBIAB
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13:59:24  <planetmaker> mostly it is safe to add another vehicle set. or another station set. or another house set
13:59:43  <planetmaker> but there's no guarantee. for instance... houses often incorporate cargos and / or industries.
13:59:47  <planetmaker> and then *poof*
14:00:22  <maddy_> I understand the 'use as your own risk' concept, also understand why it's hidden/disabled by default
14:00:22  <planetmaker> besides... use set scenario_developer = true
14:00:30  <planetmaker> Unless you really develop newgrfs and test them
14:00:35  <alluke> i use that too
14:00:45  <planetmaker> it does the same for that purpose
14:01:09  <planetmaker> do you need newgrf debugging like showing their internal state? if not, then you don#t need the newgrf developer tools
14:02:34  <maddy_> ok, thanks for the info
14:03:03  <planetmaker> as a rule for games you want to play: don't remove newgrfs. Don't change or add NewGRFs which define cargos and / or industries
14:03:59  <alluke> am i horrible person if i have changed industry grfs?
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14:04:36  <planetmaker> alluke, you'll end up with a horrible game
14:04:39  <maddy_> alluke: yes, probably :(
14:04:50  <alluke> ouuch
14:04:55  <alluke> should i just hang myself? :(
14:04:59  <V453000> YES
14:04:59  <V453000> please
14:05:02  <V453000> that would be awesome
14:05:03  <planetmaker> two times cargo 'goods' which is different, though. invalid tiles. invalid cargos
14:05:07  <planetmaker> crashes
14:05:13  <planetmaker> all that then is very likely
14:05:32  <alluke> well the existing cargos on stations show up as invalid cargo sometimes
14:05:45  <V453000> I vote for hanging
14:05:50  <alluke> but they reduce with time
14:05:56  <maddy_> alluke: don't hang yourself, but if you want to make a patch which handles all newgrfs changes perfectly, so it can be safely enabled in trunk, do that
14:06:11  <planetmaker> <-- besides, maddy_ , we don't exactly hide it. But sure, we don't advocate it for people who just come and go like "want to change newgrfs!!!"
14:06:19  <alluke> ill give you the honor of greasing the rope
14:06:52  <maddy_> planetmaker: did try to hide it a little bit :)
14:07:30  <planetmaker> <-- and here
14:07:53  <alluke> if he really would want to hide it, it would be in an encrypted file which can be opened only with special application
14:08:26  <planetmaker> it's needed for newgrf development... so we couldn#t entirely remove it ;-)
14:08:46  <peter1138> 14:52 < alluke> havent broken anything yet
14:08:47  <V453000> JUST googling "openttd change newgrf" leads exactly to the pages planetmaker just linked
14:08:51  <peter1138> 15:05 < alluke> well the existing cargos on stations show up as invalid cargo sometimes
14:08:54  <peter1138> yeah lol
14:09:02  <planetmaker> :-)
14:09:05  <maddy_> V453000: yeah I don't google
14:09:13  <V453000> retarded or yes
14:09:17  <alluke> i dont count that as being broken because the invalid shit disappears within time
14:09:30  <peter1138> my machine blue screens all the time
14:09:39  <peter1138> i don't count it as broken cos it goes away when i press reset
14:10:06  <maddy_> good comparison
14:11:00  <peter1138> not really, just popped into my head
14:12:28  <alluke> every time i update my ottd i have to remove the universal binary with cleanmymac
14:12:58  <peter1138> what's left to run, if you removed it
14:13:40  <alluke> the intel version
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14:23:35  <DanMacK> Back
14:23:39  <DanMacK> @seen Pikka
14:23:39  <DorpsGek> DanMacK: Pikka was last seen in #openttd 21 weeks, 5 days, 5 hours, 40 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <Pikka> I do not want to watch a half-hour video for the one little piece of information I need and which probably isn't in there anyway
14:27:19  <planetmaker> alluke, universal binary... that's simply two or more binaries in one bundle... and why you would have to remove the others... no clue
14:27:27  <planetmaker> osx just picks the right one
14:27:37  <planetmaker> and that's the whole point of making them
14:27:41  <alluke> ik
14:27:56  <alluke> but keeping the ppc one is just waste of disk dpace
14:28:11  <planetmaker> yeah. 3MByte. On 500+GB. totally
14:28:25  <planetmaker> size of 1 mp3 file
14:28:38  <alluke> btw, when will ottd get icy coasts so you can set snowline to 0?
14:28:51  <planetmaker> just use opengfx+landscape ;-)
14:29:01  <alluke> does it have?
14:29:09  <planetmaker> have a look and see
14:29:11  <alluke> lemme take a look
14:29:15  <alluke> exiting :D
14:29:22  <maddy_> oh, all snow terrain? that would be really cool
14:29:35  <Tulitomaatti> inb4 ice roads
14:29:43  <planetmaker> I hope I didn't promise too much now :D
14:30:04  <alluke> you did
14:30:08  <alluke> the coats are still green
14:31:31  <planetmaker> tsk. you didn't set the proper parameters
14:31:42  <planetmaker> by default I don't enable stuff which glitches
14:32:06  <planetmaker> but yes... hm. I thought I had snowy coasts
14:32:15  <planetmaker> I guess... I can't vary that... hm
14:32:17  <planetmaker> hm
14:32:42  <planetmaker> I sure have the sprites
14:32:54  <alluke> thought it would look like this :(
14:32:55  <alluke>
14:33:30  <peter1138> that would be major engine revamp
14:33:45  <alluke> instead i got this
14:34:03  <V453000> perfect name :D
14:35:54  <DanMacK> lol
14:37:10  <maddy_> std::map::clear says the contained objects are destroyed, which I take to mean, that I don't need to explicitly use 'delete' on them?
14:38:11  <V453000> btw alluke at least the parameter does not say coasts will never be snowy
14:38:15  <V453000> because that would be too obvious
14:38:17  <V453000> :>
14:39:54  <__ln__> maddy_: in your case the map probably contains pointers, which are destroyed, but not the objects they point to.
14:40:49  <maddy_> __ln__: ok thanks, that was the info I needed, I will manually delete them then
14:48:35  <V453000>
14:48:54  <V453000> my day is complete
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14:50:14  <V453000> behold, greater Canadian evil has arrived
14:50:37  <DanMacK> So I'm the Lesser Canadian Evil?
14:50:51  <V453000> +-
14:50:53  <Pinkbeast> I thought Harper was the greater Canadian evil
14:53:54  <DanMacK> No, he's the Greatest Canadian Evil
15:09:16  <scshunt> lol
15:09:32  <scshunt> DanMacK: I'm also, apparently, lesser Canadian vil
15:09:35  <scshunt> *evil
15:09:43  <scshunt> (and a Liberal, to boot)
15:16:13  <Rubidium> isn't the greatest Canadian Evil that hard maple syrup candy that doesn't contain any maple syrup?
15:18:54  <Pinkbeast> I fear you'll find in the rest of the world "maple flavour" is depressingly common.
15:21:07  * maddy_ shivers at the thought of all the evils that Canada has unleashed on the world...
15:21:51  <Pinkbeast> "Failure to burn down the White House again"
15:21:54  <scshunt> Pinkbeast: now I am sad
15:22:49  <scshunt> maple should be available to all
15:23:35  * Pinkbeast has a Canadian girlfriend (no, really) and she's very snooty about maple
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15:39:59  <Tulitomaatti> maple syrup mmmm
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15:51:22  <scshunt> Pinkbeast: lol
15:51:27  <scshunt> Pinkbeast: murrican, then?
15:54:52  <Pinkbeast> Hardly. British.
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15:57:21  <scshunt> ah
15:59:02  <alluke> planetmaker: found the issue?
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16:16:51  <maddy_> which saveload file handles tracks, signals, and the like?
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16:20:21  <peter1138> they're part of the map
16:23:43  <maddy_> ok that file makes no sense to me :) but np
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16:48:06  <maddy_> how do I do a simple saveload which saves 4 ints? I see examples of saveloading objects
16:48:29  <maddy_> I still want to do an array, I mean, just that every 'object' is 4 individual values
16:51:04  *** pugi [] has quit []
16:52:44  <maddy_> actually just 2 would be enough..
17:10:40  <Xaroth|Work> make a new chunk?
17:10:58  <Xaroth|Work> unless those objects are 'related' to something
17:11:05  <Xaroth|Work> then you might want to put it with those items
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17:12:26  <maddy_> I made a new chunk
17:13:38  <Tulitomaatti> it seems i'm most likely to die of a heart disease or cancer (almost 50% of deaths in finnish male populace)
17:14:59  <__ln__> still, death is the number one killer
17:17:49  <Tulitomaatti> 60% of cyclists die!
17:19:37  <Xaroth|Work> 100% of people who drink water die.
17:21:28  <MINM> Dihydrogen oxide is dangerous, you know!
17:22:05  <Tulitomaatti> it causes deadly asphyxia when inhaled too much.
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17:33:30  <frosch123> play more ottd
17:33:42  <frosch123> i have never heard of someone dieing of ottd
17:35:07  <__ln__> *dying
17:36:00  <MINM> Anyway, Tulitomaatti, I want to know, what happens to the other 40% of cyclists?
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17:36:38  <fjb> Moin
17:36:48  <frosch123> quak
17:36:59  <fjb> Quak frosch123
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17:37:07  <Wolf01> hello
17:37:14  <frosch123> MINM: they are cycling in time
17:37:45  <Wolf01> mmmh, I need a tardis box for my Lego @ work
17:38:14  <MINM> Why, Wolf01? getting too much?
17:38:20  <Wolf01> yeah
17:38:34  <alluke> :planetmaker: when will (rail)vehicles be able to change names and features with time?
17:42:01  <Tulitomaatti> MINM: apparently they just won't die.
17:44:20  <alluke> lol firetomato
17:46:21  <V453000> XD
17:46:37  <V453000> why the fuck would vehicles change names and features
17:46:44  <V453000> why not just introduce a new vehicle which has just that
17:48:04  <maddy_> oh your slugs don't evolve?
17:48:04  <Tulitomaatti> or, a way that would make it make sense would be that 40% of cyclists quite being cyclists before they die.
17:48:11  <Tulitomaatti> -e
17:48:27  <V453000> they do, they come in 3 various vehicle types
17:48:44  <V453000> but vehicle changing its name and features isnt the same vehicle anymore
17:49:04  <V453000> -> why not have it as a new one
17:50:11  <maddy_> sure, was just thinking, a slug (an animal?) could evolve...more so than say a regular non-fantasy engine
17:50:45  <frosch123> V453000: vehicles changing lengths when getting older? :p
17:50:59  <V453000> that just puts even more wtf to the suspicion that some ultra-realistic train set wants those features maddy_
17:51:03  <V453000> frosch123: :DDDDD
17:51:38  <fjb> My car changed its length a few times. :(
17:52:28  <maddy_> alluke: I have a feeling the answer to a lot of 'when feature X becomes available' questions is 'when you code it'
17:52:36  <V453000> I am just enjoying my time waiting for alluke to come with some retarded answer :P
17:55:32  <alluke> it was just a thought
17:56:02  <alluke> when irl all vehicles of one type are converted to another type
17:56:20  <alluke> the old type disappears and theyre all that new type
17:56:27  <V453000> -> autoreplace?
17:56:31  <V453000> with expiring vehicles?
17:56:46  <alluke> hmm
17:56:48  <alluke> idd
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17:57:08  <alluke> forgot that since i use vehicles never expire setting
17:57:55  <V453000> me too, annoying feature
17:58:52  <alluke> love when sunset paints the sky yellow and purple
17:59:31  <alluke> pink clouds look so cute on blue sky
17:59:34  <alluke> like cotton candy
18:01:20  <fjb> Hello Kitty clouds...
18:07:38  <maddy_> so, any tips for saveload where I have an array where both key/value are ints
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18:10:32  <frosch123> i guess, grep for "ARRAY"
18:13:20  <Alberth> o/
18:16:22  <frosch123> hai
18:19:55  <maddy_> yeah found it
18:22:15  <fjb> Moin Alberth
18:27:02  <maddy_> any ideas for storing an inner array inside an object? like any example in saveload which does that?
18:30:38  <maddy_> just the last missing piece I need :)
18:31:25  <Belugas> sounds a bit like programming 101, isn't it?
18:32:36  <Alberth> hi hi
18:32:37  <maddy_> yeah think I can work around it tho
18:33:43  <Alberth> sir B!!
18:34:05  <fjb> Moin Belugas
18:34:42  <Belugas> hello to all of you :)
18:35:20  <Belugas> fjb, have you tried selling your shots already?
18:35:20  <Alberth> on behalf of all of us, hello and welcome :D
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18:35:59  * Belugas thanks the king that was and returns the same welcome :)
18:36:20  <fjb> Belugas: Didn't find any time for a selling plan yet.
18:36:58  <Belugas> a
18:37:03  <Belugas> freaking
18:37:05  <Belugas> shame!
18:37:46  <Belugas> well... given the lovely companion you have, i bet i would not find time for much either ;)
18:37:52  <fjb> The pictures are on flickr for years ans nobody cares.
18:37:53  <Belugas> oh. wait... it's my case too!
18:39:33  <Belugas> they are?
18:39:47  <Belugas> maybe a too big place to find a jem...
18:40:27  <fjb> She is lovely, but also challenging.
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18:41:21  <Belugas> hehehe
18:41:46  <fjb> Belugas:
18:42:19  <Belugas> haaa...
18:42:19  <fjb> And:
18:42:25  <Belugas> thnks :)
18:43:33  <fjb> Belugas: Do you have a flickr account?
18:44:13  <Belugas> i doubt that
18:45:33  <fjb> Not all pictures are public.
18:47:06  <maddy_> where is gamedata freed when closing a game?
18:47:26  * fjb should post a flickr link more often...
18:47:37  <Belugas> it's just that I never got into "publishing" my stuff, mainly because i don't feel it's good enogh for that, unlike yours
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18:48:11  <Belugas> but given that I do have some shots of the party/weekend, i might create one
18:48:57  <fjb> I feel the same about my shots.
18:49:23  <fjb> And I also have to upload the party pictures somewhere.
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18:54:10  <Belugas> guess we should indeed :)
18:55:12  <maddy_> wow there's a lot of code for supporting old savegame versions, how do you guys keep it all working and ensure nothing breaks when loading some old savegame?
18:57:06  <Belugas> we cross our fingers and pray hard ;)
18:57:10  <fjb> Belugas: We should. I will upload them as soon as I find some time the next days.
18:57:26  <fjb> :)
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19:00:01  <Alberth> maddy_: don't touch old loading code?  :)
19:00:05  <Alberth> o/ andy
19:01:02  <V453000> andythenorth, lord of pink copper ore
19:01:03  <Alberth> maddy_: it's an upgrade path through every savegame version to whatever version we have today
19:02:10  <maddy_> Alberth: where is all gamedata freed though when closing a game or loading a new one?
19:03:05  <Alberth> all locally I think
19:03:24  <Alberth> pools are cleaned, map is re-initialized
19:03:58  <Alberth> a lot of stuff is in some global variable
19:04:29  <maddy_> yeah, but say I have one func which frees my stuff, where would I call it from?
19:06:23  <V453000> you usually call from phone to a phone
19:06:40  <Wolf01> hello Alberth, hello Belugas
19:07:19  <planetmaker> alluke, I'll always veto to change vehicle *names* with time. Vehicle properties can be changed with time since... at least 0.6
19:07:50  <planetmaker> good evening everyone :-)
19:07:54  <V453000> hy
19:08:19  <Alberth> maddy_:  have a look where _industry_builder::Reset is called
19:08:25  <Alberth> hi planetmaker
19:08:26  <alluke> did you solve the snowy coasts issue?
19:08:36  <planetmaker> lol
19:09:26  <Alberth> openttd earth is so warm, coasts are never covered in snow
19:09:27  <alluke> what
19:09:37  <alluke> did you troll me earlier?
19:10:05  <maddy_> Alberth: afterload.cpp, I guess that's the place
19:10:43  <Alberth> maddy_: that's one place for init. there has to be a 2nd one for starting a new game
19:11:01  <fjb> Moin planetmaker
19:11:03  <Alberth> ie by generating a new game rather than loading something
19:11:04  <planetmaker> kinda. with a different snowline implementation that can change
19:11:10  <planetmaker> hey fjb
19:12:33  <andythenorth> it's always bothered me that the sea doesn't freeze
19:12:49  <Alberth> frosch123:   should app.wsgi be executable? (it's not after applying the patch)
19:12:58  <andythenorth> totally unrealistic unfrozen sea
19:13:39  <Alberth> very useful, you can transport goods in it all year around
19:13:44  <Alberth> and catch fish
19:13:45  <fjb> andythenorth: Wait some years. The global warming is making the game more realistic. :)
19:14:02  <andythenorth> Alberth: stop talking about gameplay
19:14:06  <andythenorth> this is about realism :P
19:14:13  <andythenorth> also ice floes
19:14:15  <Alberth> fjb: good point, OpenTTD is years ahead of reality :D
19:14:45  <Alberth> andy: sir B is also in the channel
19:15:06  <andythenorth> what was the coast question anyway?  Do I have to read logs?
19:15:30  <planetmaker> andythenorth, the complaint was that he can't have frozen coasts
19:15:36  <planetmaker> whatever the snow line
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19:17:22  <frosch123> Alberth: i did not make it executable on the server either
19:17:26  <frosch123> so i guess it does not have to
19:17:48  <Alberth> k
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19:18:50  <DanMacK> Boo
19:19:16  <LordAro> D:
19:20:36  * LordAro had forgotten how awesome the TTD soundtrack is :D
19:21:33  <DanMacK> lol
19:22:07  * DanMacK slaps andythenorth around a bit with a large trout
19:22:14  <andythenorth> ho it's DanMacK
19:22:23  <andythenorth> you were missed
19:22:49  <DanMacK> Thanks :D
19:33:08  <maddy_> ok now I found the prob, saveloading Track enum as SLE_UINT8 does not work...what type should I use for enums?
19:34:23  <maddy_> as far as I can see, only the first 6 bits are kind of used
19:36:20  <planetmaker> track bits and track type surely together are more :-)
19:36:27  <Alberth> store them in integers
19:37:34  <maddy_> planetmaker: but I am just using Track
19:40:41  <maddy_> the value is 0 when saving, but really big negative integer when loading
19:41:07  <frosch123> maddy_: never use enums in saveload stuff
19:41:13  <frosch123> their size is undefined
19:41:36  <Alberth> and they have nice little/big endian problems
19:41:38  <maddy_> oh dear
19:41:53  <frosch123> use the SimpleTinyEnumT to define an enum with defined size
19:42:26  <maddy_> enum types are pretty convenient as class variables though
19:42:50  <maddy_> what would be 'clean' way to do a conversion
19:42:56  <glx> there is TrackByte for Track
19:43:56  <maddy_> yeah, but I wouldn't want to change my class variables, so can I do some cast or conversion?
19:44:13  <frosch123> you do not have to
19:44:32  <frosch123> TrackByte is a SimpleTinyEnumT which provided implicit conversion and operators and everything
19:44:58  <maddy_> oh that's cool
19:45:59  <maddy_> really love that
19:58:16  <maddy_> works well, thanks
20:05:37  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25735 /trunk/src (order_type.h vehicle.cpp) (2013-08-20 20:05:31 UTC)
20:05:38  <DorpsGek> -Feature: allow implicit orders even if no explicit ones are given.
20:11:19  <maddy_> the patch seems to work :) the basics are done, I can publish it on the forum problem is the visual presentation of signal links
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20:55:00  <Terkhen> good night
21:03:13  <fjb> Good night Terkhen
21:03:49  <frosch123> night
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21:20:19  <NGC3982> Evening.
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21:22:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25736 /trunk/src (3 files) (2013-08-20 21:22:35 UTC)
21:22:49  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: move condition prediction out of GetNextStoppingOrder so that we can access both branches in calling code
21:22:52  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25737 /trunk/src (vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h) (2013-08-20 21:22:37 UTC)
21:22:53  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: move inner workings of RefreshNextHopsStats into separate function
21:22:56  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25738 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2013-08-20 21:22:39 UTC)
21:22:57  <DorpsGek> -Feature: recursively walk all branches of conditional orders in the order prediction logic
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21:38:25  <LordAro> hmm. doesn't have r25737 or r25738 ...
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22:00:01  <LordAro> still nothing :(
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22:34:21  <Wolf01> 'night
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