Log for #openttd on 2nd September 2013:
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00:13:03  <Bad_Brett> that would indeed be a nice feature, to be able to "block" certain cargos on a station
00:14:05  <Supercheese> There's a Patch For That™
00:15:04  <Supercheese>
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00:16:06  <Bad_Brett> haha... whenever i get a great idea, someone beat me to it
00:24:59  <Bad_Brett> oh no... i didn't unhide the driver's right arm before rendering
00:25:04  <Bad_Brett> he looks crippled
00:25:13  <Eddi|zuHause> afair that patch wasn't included because it allowed "cheating" in the sense of resetting the station rating
00:25:42  <Bad_Brett> that doesn't sound good
00:28:23  <Eddi|zuHause> "the radiation leaks in fukishima are more severe than thought previously, because the measurements exceeded the scale on the devices"
00:28:56  <Bad_Brett> what the hell
00:30:18  <Bad_Brett> 18 times higher?
00:34:42  <Eddi|zuHause> it's only 1.8 sievert, what could possibly go wrong...
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00:55:22  <mark_> Hi Folks,  is the current dev build broken?  I am getting missing file layout/ParagraphLayout.h
00:58:12  <mark_> I cannot chat on
01:22:59  <peter1138> That's something to do with ICU.
01:28:05  <mark_> perhaps the file has not been commited to SVN?
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01:30:21  <Eddi|zuHause> pherhaps you're missing a library?
01:30:47  <Eddi|zuHause> if you're using windows/msvc, did you update
01:30:49  <mark_> I have had successful builds in the last 2 months
01:31:01  <mark_> what useful changed?
01:31:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it changes when the library requirements change
01:32:05  <Eddi|zuHause> which was probably about 2 months ago
01:32:38  <mark_> bam!.   ok.  seaching the wiki now for the useful package
01:37:34  <mark_> ohh the wiki page needs updating  it says useful version 4.2, however it is more current than that (5.1) is current
01:38:12  <mark_> article needs updating
01:39:39  <Eddi|zuHause> well it's a wiki for a reason
01:41:21  <mark_> indeed
01:41:26  <mark_> I will try and fix it
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02:59:55  <roboboy> hello
03:00:23  <roboboy> I am getting a 504 Gateway timeout for
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03:03:12  <roboboy> hello Supercheese
03:03:24  <Supercheese> Salve, amice
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03:25:09  <Eddi|zuHause> there probably won't be anyone around to fix that
03:25:21  <Bad_Brett> oh
03:25:25  <Bad_Brett> some action tonight
03:27:05  <Bad_Brett> i wonder when stations will be implemented in nml
03:30:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think anyone even started
03:33:39  <Bad_Brett> that surprises me
03:34:49  <Bad_Brett> i always thought that would be a quite popular feature
03:44:11  <roboboy> Stations and vehicles are my most used GRF types
03:44:22  <mark_> thanks Eddi,  got a successful build
03:44:28  <roboboy> Iv'e never found an industry set that I like
03:45:29  <roboboy> I don't like the stockpiling in UKRSI/PBI/TAI and for me ECS is too complex
03:45:47  <roboboy> and never tried FIRS since I'm not an OpenTTD user
03:46:41  <Bad_Brett> not an openttd user?
03:46:54  <roboboy> I am still using TTDPatch
03:47:10  <Bad_Brett> but why?
03:47:24  <mark_> why roboboy?
03:47:48  <roboboy> to me OpenTTD no longer feels like TTD and TTDPatch does and for me, that is the main thing I want
03:48:42  <Bad_Brett> i see
03:49:01  <roboboy> plus TTDPatch does nearly everything I want
03:49:31  <Bad_Brett> i loved the original TT, but even back in 94 it felt like there was something missing
03:49:54  <roboboy> for me a new pathfinder would be the main thing TTDP needs
03:50:10  <roboboy> I don't come close to filling the map so bigger maps isn't a must
03:51:44  <roboboy> there are some NewGRF things that OpenTTD has since implemented that I would like but dont want
03:52:43  <roboboy> some of the older OpenTTD devs would remember one of my complaints about OpenTTD being the credits/about window. I can't even remember what I didn't like about it at the time
03:53:13  <roboboy> this was around about
03:53:18  <Bad_Brett> the credit window?
03:54:35  <Bad_Brett> i don't remember when i converted to openttd from ttdpatch
03:55:04  <roboboy> the one that opens when you click the ? menu and click "About OpenTTD"
03:55:16  <Bad_Brett> the first time i tried openttd, it was still rather buggy so i stuck with ttdpatch
03:55:43  <Bad_Brett> yeah i know, but why would you complain about the credits? :P
03:58:43  <roboboy> I can't remember
03:59:17  <roboboy> I would have to download and compare
04:02:04  <roboboy> In fact if I was still a teenager, I would probably still complain about it as John Broomhall and others from the original about window are missing that are still relevant in some way
04:03:18  <Bad_Brett> oh i see
04:03:56  <Supercheese> we can't neglect good old Broomhall
04:04:08  <Bad_Brett> ...i always turned the music off ;-)
04:04:12  <Supercheese> The TTD soundtrack is some of my favorite music of all time! :<
04:04:32  <Supercheese> That may or may not be due to massive nostalgia
04:04:40  <Bad_Brett> i don't think midi and jazz works very well together
04:04:52  <Supercheese> I never listened to the midi versions
04:04:58  <Supercheese> always good old DOS version
04:05:13  <Bad_Brett> yeah, those were midi's, right?
04:05:28  <Supercheese> I'm not sure, I know the Windows version was
04:06:26  <Bad_Brett> unless you used the pc speaker, it must have been midi
04:06:42  <Supercheese> Always sounded like this to me:
04:07:12  <Bad_Brett> i remember when we got our soundblaster16 back in 1993... that was so cool
04:12:04  <Bad_Brett> when i played this with sound for the first that was awesome
04:12:09  <Bad_Brett>
04:21:34  <Bad_Brett> testing new locomotives in-game right now... this is really exciting
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05:08:34  <maddy_> good morning all
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05:44:25  <roboboy> that was my other complaint about OpenTTD, it's inability to use the DOS music (My cusin owns and lent me for life the DOS version)
05:44:54  <roboboy> so legally I can't have the orriginal music if I play OpenTTD for multiplayer
06:02:42  <maddy_> can you add that feature to the code?
06:06:32  <Supercheese> Just use a separate media player in the background
06:08:03  <maddy_> that would be my recommendation as well, it has the added benefit of being able to play any songs
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07:33:31  <roboboy> my understanding of the reason OpenTTD can't play the DOS music is that no once has figured out how and where it is stored.
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07:44:09  <TinoDidriksen> That's clearly false, as there exists tracker and midi versions of it, and these days MP3 renders.
07:48:52  <roboboy> maybe one person
07:48:53  <roboboy>
07:52:44  <maddy_> personally, I wouldn't think support for DOS music a very high priority, I imagine most people do not need it
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07:53:44  <maddy_> instead, the time of the devs could be used on other gameplay enhancing features, which benefit most players
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08:07:15  <sla_ro|master> why not just record the sound in multiple devices and then make it as ogg/mp3/whatever?
08:07:58  <dihedral> hello again
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10:08:16  <LordAro> /o
10:09:15  <__ln__> / o
10:09:18  <roboboy> hello
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10:31:29  <Eddi|zuHause> <sla_ro|master> why not just record the sound in multiple devices and then make it as ogg/mp3/whatever? <-- because we are neither legally allowed to do conversions on the music nor to distribute those coonversions afterwards. so either someone implements a reader of the original format or it won't happen.
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12:50:18  <roboboy> so the location is known GM/ and the format of the cat files is known but not the blobs of data that represents each music titles is not known
12:57:58  <LordAro> you mean the .gm files?
12:59:04  <roboboy> no the DOS version's
12:59:39  <roboboy> it doesn't use gm files that can be renamed to .midi
13:00:08  <roboboy> it stores it's music in .cats
13:00:25  <LordAro> in that case, no idea :(
13:00:37  <planetmaker> if the format is somewhat like you might try throwing catcodec on it and see what it gives
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13:02:44  <planetmaker> (I do expect it to error out, though)
13:05:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the last time it was discussed it was said "it's midi, but not exactly"
13:05:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i think there were 3 different formats
13:06:14  <Eddi|zuHause> like adlib, opl and gm
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13:09:11  <Miauw> Hullo.
13:09:18  <Hendrick> Hi Miauw
13:09:41  <roboboy> there is adlib,GM and roland
13:10:03  <roboboy> catcodec borks on it
13:10:12  <peter1138> It's a different file format.
13:10:35  <roboboy> That's what I have found
13:11:13  <roboboy> has a tool to decode them but the author never figured out how to turn the blobs into playable midi files
13:11:17  <Eddi|zuHause> it probably takes a good long session of reverse engineering
13:11:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is probably what i meant
13:12:05  <roboboy> I have read suggestions that the blobs are possibly raw commands for the respective cards
13:13:13  <roboboy> I have never heard anyone mention the SOUND.CFG file that DOS TTD seems to use
13:13:14  <Eddi|zuHause> there should be enough documentation about that to make a converter
13:14:00  <Eddi|zuHause> most dos games come with an "install" or "setup" that will let you choose sound cards and stuff
13:14:15  <Eddi|zuHause> which obviously needs to be stored somewhere
13:14:30  <Eddi|zuHause> windows games don't need that, because there's a unified driver layer for that
13:15:32  <roboboy> that's what I suspected
13:20:10  <peter1138> IF you going to reverse engineer stuff, ignore the adlib and opl files.
13:20:57  <peter1138> Unless you want to borrow the synth from ScummVM.
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13:21:10  <roboboy> I would only be interested in GM.CAT
13:23:09  <Miauw> So, yeah.
13:23:12  <Miauw> I just found this little game.
13:23:22  <Miauw> And I have no idea what to do and I'm just following the tutorial on the wiki at the moment.
13:23:27  <Miauw> The music is great, tough c:
13:24:49  <Miauw> ...
13:24:51  <Miauw> Why is my bus not moving?
13:25:21  <Bad_Brett> did you set the waypoints?
13:25:26  <Bad_Brett> and did you start it?
13:25:30  <Miauw> How do I start it?
13:25:41  <Miauw> Oh, I see
13:26:21  <LordAro>
13:26:26  <Miauw> I was following that
13:26:33  <LordAro> just checking :)
13:26:34  <Miauw> And I still am
13:27:22  <Miauw> I can't get over how incredibly sexy this game looks.
13:28:04  <LordAro> that's not the normal reaction to the graphics :p
13:28:12  <roboboy> may I also suggest you have a look at the tutorial Game Script on bannanas
13:28:17  <Miauw> I just like the style.
13:28:27  <LordAro> which are you using? ogfx/original...?
13:29:00  <Miauw> Not the original, anyway.
13:29:06  <Miauw> Whatever's default included in the installer
13:29:47  <LordAro> there isn't, but i'm going to guess opengfx
13:30:02  <Miauw> Yeah, that.
13:34:00  <Bad_Brett> ...whoops
13:34:21  <Bad_Brett> i somehow managed to erase the both the grf file and the nml file
13:35:23  <LordAro> D:
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13:36:00  <Bad_Brett> that's when you can be really happy that you didn't write the code manually :)
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13:37:05  <Eddi|zuHause> that's when you're happy that you can just pull a new working copy from the repo
13:37:14  <LordAro> you can thank eddi and oberhumer(?) :)
13:37:48  <Bad_Brett> repository? what's that? ;-)
13:39:19  <roboboy> speaking if repositories, the web view of the OpenTTD repository is giving me 504's
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13:49:39  <LordAro> Truebrain: ^
13:55:36  <Miauw> Uh.
13:55:39  <Miauw> The tutorial is
13:55:40  <Miauw> Damnit
13:55:43  <Miauw> Nevermind
13:59:18  <roboboy> gnight #openttd
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14:12:25  <planetmaker> Miauw, you might want to download the tutorial game script and try that :-)
14:12:36  <planetmaker> (available from ingame online content)
14:13:21  <planetmaker> oh. I'm slow. others are so much faster :-)
14:15:18  <Miauw> Do villages expand automatically?
14:15:30  <Xaroth|Work> when they receive the stuff they need
14:15:36  <Miauw> Alrighto
14:15:37  <Xaroth|Work> check the town info window to see what they need
14:16:30  <planetmaker> also, good service of the stations in its vicinity help growth in the default game
14:18:42  <Miauw> Wee, busses :v
14:19:10  <Miauw> Are you fucking me, game?
14:19:16  <Miauw> The first time this bus goes anywhere
14:19:22  <Miauw> It breaks down immedieatly >.>
14:19:37  <Eddi|zuHause> they do that at the most annoying moments :p
14:19:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i generally disable breakdowns
14:25:17  <Miauw> So...
14:25:23  <Miauw> If I'm in a town, I could buy mail trucks too?
14:27:03  <Pinkbeast> You could buy mail trucks at any road depot
14:27:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but they can't load at bus stops, you need to build separate truck stops
14:28:05  <Miauw> Hm, alright.
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14:32:45  <alluke> why doesnt spring 2013 pp launch
14:32:54  <alluke> friend complied one for mac and sent to me
14:33:41  <peter1138> Because red cars go faster.
14:33:53  <alluke> very funny
14:34:45  <planetmaker> honestly, what answer do you expect, alluke ?
14:35:16  <Miauw> Yay mail trucks
14:35:26  <planetmaker> you didn't supply a proper crystal ball. Nor any info at all to base an answer on without such device
14:35:46  <alluke> what other info are needed?
14:35:56  <alluke> the same one works on friends computer
14:35:58  <alluke> same os as me
14:36:02  <Miauw> Same version?
14:36:09  <alluke> yes
14:36:16  <Rubidium> same computer?
14:36:32  <planetmaker> same libraries and library versions?
14:36:49  <alluke> where can i see that?
14:37:08  <peter1138> Did you download it from
14:37:11  <Eddi|zuHause> did he send over other required files like obg and lang?
14:37:13  <Rubidium> what part of the version is the same?
14:37:54  <Eddi|zuHause> did you install graphics?
14:38:05  <Eddi|zuHause> osx doesn't download automatically, afair
14:38:24  <peter1138> Did you try asking the people who... developed this... patch pack, I assume?
14:38:26  <Rubidium> given the Chrome/IE/Firefox version numbers many might think that 10.x.y == 10.z.y
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14:45:10  <alluke> where are the obg and lang files located?
14:45:30  <Miauw> They're libraries if I'm right.
14:45:38  <Miauw> You should try googling "obg library osx" or so.
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14:46:13  <Valle> Good afternoon
14:47:39  <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: that depends what your friend built. a bundle, or simple compile?
14:47:40  <Miauw> Hullo
14:48:22  <planetmaker> on osx he should have given you an app file
14:48:32  <planetmaker> anything else... probably only works on his machine
14:49:52  <Valle> I built alluke's bundle.
14:50:25  <Valle> i sent him the actual bundle and the required grfs for the data folder
14:50:38  <planetmaker> what kind of bundle?
14:50:51  <planetmaker> with static ICU?
14:51:04  <Valle> the typical folder with an inside it
14:51:19  <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried running from a console to see error messages?
14:51:27  <Valle> Sorry, i don't know what an ICU is. Could you explain that, please?
14:51:34  <planetmaker> a library.
14:51:59  <Valle> err...
14:52:31  <planetmaker> ./configure --help
14:52:57  <alluke> dont tell me i need xcode and other junk
14:53:12  <Valle> I didn't build it with --static-icu
14:53:38  <planetmaker> try that. icu is a bitch
14:53:43  <Valle> only --without-lzma and --without-liblzo2
14:53:44  <planetmaker> the binary will become HUUGE
14:53:46  <Valle> ok, thanks.
14:54:01  <Valle> Wonderful. lol
14:54:30  <planetmaker> --without-lzma and --without-liblzo2 disables loading of... most savegames, though
14:55:35  <Valle> Does it affect savegames created by the binary created using these settings?
14:55:41  <Eddi|zuHause> no
14:55:50  <Valle> Excellent.
14:55:53  <Valle> Thx.
14:56:08  <Eddi|zuHause> but uncompressed savegames might get huge as well
14:56:27  <planetmaker> :-)
14:56:32  <Valle> Where can i install them?
14:56:44  <planetmaker> like any other library...
14:57:16  <Valle> phew, if i remembered that... time to open the good old wiki again ;-) brb
14:57:17  <Eddi|zuHause> note that "most savegames" include the title game, so you will get green empty space
14:57:29  <planetmaker> macports, brew, hand-"crafted". whatever
14:57:43  <planetmaker> green? blue water, Eddi|zuHause :-)
14:57:44  <Valle> Ah, that's why I had blue sea as background
14:58:02  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, must have changed :)
14:58:09  <planetmaker> not in years
14:58:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure i had green background once upon a time
14:58:51  <Eddi|zuHause> and yes, i didn't try that in years
14:59:14  <planetmaker> :-)
15:02:53  <Valle> cannot find an available formula for lzma and liblzo2... ah whatever, it'll work well enough to see if that patch pack is stable enough for longer gameplay
15:03:58  <Eddi|zuHause> from what i hear, it's very desyncy
15:05:09  <Valle> didn't that only affect windows64 users?
15:05:31  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea, but it doesn't really sound encouraging
15:05:46  <Valle> well, i get desyncs in cpp occasionally as well
15:06:39  <Valle> if it allowed using newer newgrfs i'd probably never even consider to bother with a change, but it appears to be hopelessly outdated
15:09:56  <Miauw> Welp, I fucked up.
15:09:59  <Miauw> How do I get wood from forests?
15:10:24  <Pinkbeast> Miauw: Have you refitted the vehicle/wagons to haul wood?
15:10:34  <Miauw> Fuck, I used coal wagons >.<
15:10:54  <Miauw> Thankso.
15:29:45  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, it was already full water in r12697
15:31:35  <Eddi|zuHause> and also in r7691-MiniIN
15:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea what i remember then...
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15:33:21  <Eddi|zuHause> what are the chances of converting my miniin savegame to trunk?
15:33:56  <Pinkbeast> I remember the miniIN
15:34:01  <Eddi|zuHause> oooh... diagonal crossings... i should possibly finish that patch
15:41:27  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, missing catenary on level crossings, i never figured that out
15:41:46  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: depends whether non-implemented stuff is being used/can't be converted into something else
15:41:59  <Bad_Brett> what's the angle on a slope? 12.25 degrees?
15:42:13  <Bad_Brett> *11.25
15:42:31  <Pinkbeast> Bad_Brett: Apparent angle, or physics angle?
15:42:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: on 16 tile substeps (~32px) you rise 8px
15:44:31  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc atan(8/32)*180/pi
15:44:31  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 14.0362434679
15:44:45  <Eddi|zuHause> does that help you in any way?
15:44:57  <Bad_Brett> yes it does, thank you
15:45:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know how accurate that is
15:45:43  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc atan(8/(16*sqrt(5)))*180/pi
15:45:43  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 12.6043826484
15:45:50  <Eddi|zuHause> that may be closer
15:46:09  <Terkhen> hello
15:46:14  <Bad_Brett> hello Terkhen
15:46:39  <Bad_Brett> my guess is that the later one will be closer
15:46:56  <Bad_Brett> but i'm gonna try both
15:46:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: problem with vehicles "adjusting" to slopes is that you could end up with one end digging into the ground
15:47:49  <Bad_Brett> i don't think i'm gonna have that problem though... i'll have the "rubber effect" instead
15:49:07  <Eddi|zuHause> you'll also have combinatoric explosion for turning and sloping at the same time
15:49:22  <Valle> bundle built, tested and... doesn't work either. Same problem
15:49:24  <Bad_Brett> yeah, i won't do that
15:49:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Valle: still have not seen an error message
15:49:55  <Valle> according to alluke it doesn't even launch
15:49:56  <Bad_Brett> some things will look a bit strange, but it's not that bad
15:50:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Valle: that is not an error message
15:52:22  <Valle> trying to obtain one... sigh
15:52:27  <alluke> console gave me this
15:52:28  <alluke> 2.9.2013 18.52.11" target="_blank">[158]	([0x0-0xa2fa2f].org.openttd.openttd" target="_blank">org.openttd.openttd[29308]) posix_spawn("/Users/aleksiriikonen/Downloads/bundle/", ...): Permission denied 2.9.2013 18.52.11" target="_blank">[158]	([0x0-0xa2fa2f].org.openttd.openttd" target="_blank">org.openttd.openttd[29308]) Exited with exit code: 1
15:52:54  <planetmaker> :D
15:53:00  <planetmaker> "permission denied"
15:53:39  <alluke> damn
15:53:42  <alluke> how to change that?
15:53:55  <Pinkbeast> What are the permissions on that directory?
15:54:17  <planetmaker> chmod a+x that/long/path/to/openttd
15:54:30  <alluke> that into terminal?
15:54:34  <planetmaker> ^
15:54:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd generally try to find out what the permissions are before changing them
15:55:25  <planetmaker> might be wise, yes
15:55:42  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker seems to be of the "try random things until it works" mood today :p
15:56:11  <planetmaker> nah. well. maybe. :D
15:56:14  <alluke> ITS ALIVE!
15:56:21  <alluke> sir, youre a wizard
15:56:56  <Valle> well done, you launched it out of Downloads. Enjoy fixing the permissions for your final location of the files
15:57:16  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: how else do you do things? i fairly regularly ruin code checkouts with that sort of mentality :p
15:57:16  <planetmaker> Valle, I never had issues starting stuff out of downloads
15:57:27  <Bad_Brett> what does "other_veh_is_hidden" really mean? are 8 z-positions on a slope or just 1?
15:57:32  <Bad_Brett> *are there
15:57:39  <Valle> I never had them either - no idea how he accomplished that
15:57:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: if vehicle part is in tunnel or depot, it is "hidden"
15:58:16  <alluke> it didnt work from applications directory either
15:58:20  <Eddi|zuHause> and yes, there are 8 z-positions in a slope
15:58:23  <alluke> now it launches from everywhere
15:58:33  <Bad_Brett> but the comment says "Signed difference in Z-position (upwards) between the other vehicle and this vehicle." on that one
15:58:37  <Bad_Brett> is that an error?
15:59:10  <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: link?
15:59:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i think there are two separate things mixed together
15:59:33  <Valle> Thanks for the assistance everyone.
15:59:39  <planetmaker> yw
16:00:01  <alluke> yes, huge thanks
16:03:04  <Bad_Brett>
16:03:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: looks like a copy-paste error
16:03:46  <Bad_Brett> i guess the variable is called "other_veh_z_offset"
16:03:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, just changed that page
16:03:59  <Bad_Brett> by the way, the y offset name is wrong as well
16:04:18  <Eddi|zuHause> no it's not :p
16:04:28  <Bad_Brett> :D
16:05:14  <planetmaker> :-)
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16:17:34  <Miauw> Why are all these truck stations stopping to accept goods?
16:19:27  <Pinkbeast> Goods/pax/mail acceptance is done by individual town buildings which contribute a fraction of acceptance (you can see a building "accepts 3/8 goods", for example).
16:20:20  <Pinkbeast> Towns chop and change buildings and because goods-accepting buildings are relatively scarce except in busy centres, goods acceptance can come and go in towns. :-/
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16:29:16  <Bad_Brett> the good news is that if you transport a lot of passengers and mail to that town, it will eventually accept goods again
16:30:07  <Eddi|zuHause> building stations with larger acceptance radius often helps against random fluctuations
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16:37:41  <Bad_Brett> hmm... the nml file for a single locomotive exceeds 1 mb :P
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16:38:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that's gonna be "fun" to compile for a whole set :p
16:38:32  <Eddi|zuHause> 24h compilation time :p
16:38:48  <Eddi|zuHause> (or more likely: out of memory)
16:38:50  <Bad_Brett> got to get some booze first
16:39:26  <Bad_Brett> i hate out of memory errors
16:39:43  <Bad_Brett> they have ruined many things
16:39:50  <Eddi|zuHause> nml is vulnerable to that on large files
16:40:31  <Bad_Brett> is there a upper limit on how much memory that can be allocated for the nml compiler?
16:40:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i have considered moving over my generator to nfo
16:40:56  <Eddi|zuHause> typically around 3GB per process
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16:41:19  <Bad_Brett> that sounds scary
16:41:19  <Eddi|zuHause> as python is 32bit
16:42:19  <Bad_Brett> well, i guess i could always release a grf pack instead
16:42:57  <Eddi|zuHause> well what i did instead was compile every engine individually into an nfo, and then combine those nfos for the whole set
16:45:06  <Bad_Brett> can i use the --nfo=<file> option to do that?
16:45:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i patched my nml so i can insert a "common headers end here" line into the NFO
16:47:06  <Bad_Brett> that sounds like a smart solution
16:47:38  <Eddi|zuHause> see the "eddi-nml" project on devzone, it adds a "comment(<text>);" statement that issues NFO ActionC lines
16:47:54  <Bad_Brett> are there any problems with it, since you consider moving over your generator to nfo?
16:48:57  <Miauw> Uh.
16:48:59  <LordAro> Bad_Brett: just rewrite nmlc in Cpp :p
16:49:00  <Miauw> My trains are stuck.
16:49:03  <Eddi|zuHause> there are no problems with the patch, but the combining of the NFO has some rather fragile assumptions about the output of NML, like not shuffling around lines and that all identifiers get assigned the same value internally
16:49:05  <Miauw> Both are waiting for a free path
16:49:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Miauw: turn one around
16:49:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Miauw: and then rework your signalling :)
16:49:33  <Miauw> Oh, I didn't know you could do that
16:49:34  <Miauw> Nice
16:49:38  <Miauw> It wasn't my signalling, I think
16:49:55  <Miauw> It was that for whatever reason my trains are going in seperate directions.
16:50:06  <Miauw> And that I accidently had a piece of railway that I bombed.
16:50:16  <Miauw> The direction thing fixed itself, too
16:50:35  <Miauw> Also, I don't into signals.
16:50:47  <Eddi|zuHause> signals might be difficult to grasp at first
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16:51:26  <Bad_Brett> strangely enough, nmlc.exe only uses 100 mb of memory right now
16:52:30  <Miauw> These trains really like breaking down at intersections
16:52:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: well i think cets.nml was around 15MB when i ran into trouble
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16:54:51  <Bad_Brett> in that case, it will happen to me as well
16:55:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: for the combining to work right, i had to introduce a dummy switch that uses all string-IDs etc, to make sure they get the same internal ID for every individual engine, and not get optimised out
16:55:21  <Bad_Brett> guess i'll try eddi-nml
16:55:55  <Bad_Brett> oh man, that sounds like a lot of potential frustration
16:57:33  <Bad_Brett> but i guess once you get it to work, it shouldn't be to hard do it automatically
16:57:51  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe this helps, that's the main concept
16:58:06  <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, the NML is 1M for the engine or does that include images?
16:58:38  <Bad_Brett> only the code
16:58:44  <Bad_Brett> no images
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16:59:12  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, gtg
16:59:18  <Bad_Brett> see you
16:59:22  <planetmaker> scary
17:00:09  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's what you get when you have 16 parts to a vehicle instead of 3, and display all the turning angles :p
17:00:21  <Bad_Brett> and 6 zoom levels :)
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17:01:04  <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, how do the zoom levels matter?
17:01:29  <planetmaker> you count the spritesets towards that code? And don't have it templated?
17:01:35  <Eddi|zuHause> every zoom level needs additional sprite template for every angle
17:02:02  <planetmaker> hm, yeah, adds up :-)
17:02:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't use nml templates for that, because evaluation of formulas was really slow
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17:02:25  <Bad_Brett> yeah same here
17:02:44  <Eddi|zuHause> so when i generate stuff anyway, might as well just fill in the final values
17:03:11  <planetmaker> yeah
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17:05:29  *** Alberth [] has joined #openttd
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17:05:45  <Alberth> o/
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17:07:17  <Xaroth|Work>
17:07:31  *** lobstar [] has joined #openttd
17:07:41  <Bad_Brett> oh, i forgot... i use 4*vehicle_length spritesets for animations as well... and i'm gonna need even more for animations on slopes :-)
17:08:17  *** TrueBrain [] has quit [Quit: reboot]
17:08:25  <Malinux-> is there a way to measure distance in openttd?
17:08:56  <planetmaker> yeah
17:09:33  <Alberth> there is a measurement tool setting in the advanced settings
17:09:38  <planetmaker> I believe it's even active by default if you use one of the tools which drags
17:10:43  <Malinux-> okey. I will try to find it then :)
17:10:58  <Alberth> values don't mean much though
17:11:44  *** Miauw_ [] has joined #openttd
17:11:58  <Malinux-> Alberth: do you mean lengt:1, 2 and so on when pressing shift while placing tracks?
17:11:59  <Miauw_> Bluh.
17:12:05  <Miauw_> Local authority refuses to let me build a truck station
17:12:06  <Malinux-> ho many meters is 1 length?
17:12:11  <planetmaker> yes, Malinux-
17:12:18  <planetmaker> 1 length is 1 length
17:12:23  <Malinux-> ok
17:12:24  <planetmaker> it can be 500km. it can be 5m
17:12:30  <Malinux-> I see
17:12:33  <planetmaker> depending on the game element you look at
17:12:42  <Pinkbeast> Miauw_: A good service will improve that, or plant trees somewhere you won't end up building later.
17:12:42  <planetmaker> it's a game after all
17:12:53  <Malinux-> but then I use length instead when finding out what fastest train to use for a given distance :)
17:13:02  <Alberth> Malinux-: Different elements have different scales
17:13:49  <Miauw_> Goddamnit
17:13:54  <Miauw_> Something is seriously fucking with my connection
17:13:55  <Malinux-> Alberth: ok
17:14:02  <Miauw_> Seemingly random sites won't let me connect
17:14:22  <Alberth> Malinux-: it also depends on the terrain, load of the train, and various settings
17:14:47  <Alberth> oh, bends in the tracks and tunnels count too
17:15:09  *** Miauw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:18:29  <Miauw_> So, where do I find that turotiral sscenario?
17:19:08  <Miauw_> Nevermind
17:19:10  <Alberth> online game content is the easiest
17:19:20  <Miauw_> I found it.
17:19:29  <Miauw_> Didn't notice you could filter
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17:19:45  <Pinkbeast> Cor blimey, I didn't know about that
17:21:38  <Bad_Brett> hmm, isn't there a 64bit version of python?
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17:22:57  <Alberth> Bad_Brett: I have that
17:23:50  <Bad_Brett> cool. how much work would it be to convert the nml compiler to a 64 bit version?
17:24:46  <Alberth> PIL needs to be changed, I think
17:25:22  <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, what advantage do you think you'll gain?
17:25:38  <planetmaker> except the memory boundary which you haven't yet hit?
17:25:47  <Bad_Brett> to be able to allocate more memory
17:25:56  <Alberth> ...
17:26:09  <Bad_Brett> yes exactly... but i'm trying to plan ahead :-)
17:26:51  <Bad_Brett> obiously CETS already have a memory problem
17:28:40  <Bad_Brett> anyway, it's doesn't really matter right now
17:28:47  <Bad_Brett> i was just curious
17:29:20  <Bad_Brett> the computer i'm currently working on has 2 gb of RAM :-)
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17:33:25  <Wolf01> moin
17:33:59  <Malinux-> Alberth: bends in the tunnels?
17:34:10  <Wolf01> what, worms?
17:35:12  <Alberth> Malinux-: I wish, but no, only in normal tracks at the ground.
17:35:25  <Alberth> o/ Wolf01
17:36:15  <Pinkbeast> Sometimes you can dig a little hole to install a corner in a tunnelled section
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17:42:19  <Malinux-> Alberth: I see :) as I thought :) someday somebody work hard and make diagnoal bridges and tunells
17:42:41  <Malinux-> Pinkbeast: to connect to tracks within a tunell?
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17:44:54  <Pinkbeast> Malinux-: To turn a corner effectively within a tunnel (but also to include a junction)
17:54:31  <Malinux-> yeah. ah junction is the english word for connecting two lines. My English vocabular could have been better
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18:37:47  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25753 trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp (2013-09-02 18:37:44 UTC)
18:37:48  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5725] (r25557): If old savegames contain bridges over owned land, keep on drawing the bridges nevertheless.
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18:53:53  <Miauw> What does the number mean in the signal menu?
18:54:01  <Miauw> And how do I determine the direction of one-way signals?
18:54:34  <Alberth> distance between signals with drag, click more often
18:54:41  <Miauw> Oh.
18:54:43  <Miauw> Thanks
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18:56:15  <Alberth>
19:22:36  *** Miauw [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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20:06:37  *** alluke [] has joined #openttd
20:08:21  <Valle> Yup, the S2013PP is a bit of a desync party i'm afraid
20:08:45  <Supercheese> It mashes so many patches together, that's not too surprising
20:11:30  <alluke> imma combine infrasharing patch to latest ottd nightly
20:11:40  <alluke> cargodist + infrasharing = win
20:13:08  <Valle> lol good luck
20:13:54  <planetmaker> that should not be terribly difficult, Valle
20:14:03  <planetmaker> though cargodist+infra needs thinking
20:14:39  <alluke> doesnt the latest nightly have built-in cargodist?
20:14:51  <LordAro> indeed
20:15:20  * alluke wishes for 1.3.3 with built-in cd & is
20:15:41  <LordAro> pfft.
20:15:49  <LordAro> 1.4.0, at least
20:16:15  <alluke> better than never
20:16:16  <LordAro> mostly likely 1.6.0, at least :P
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20:16:30  <alluke> you dreambreaker
20:16:46  <planetmaker> Alberth, won't happen
20:16:51  <planetmaker> ups.
20:16:55  <planetmaker> alluke, ^
20:17:05  <alluke> hah
20:17:09  <alluke> why?
20:17:11  <planetmaker> and... LordAro is right :D
20:17:15  <planetmaker> 1.3.x is bug-fix only
20:17:19  <alluke> ok
20:17:32  <planetmaker> 1.4.0 is next feature-release
20:17:41  <planetmaker> which will include cargodist
20:17:46  <alluke> 1.3.3 wont?
20:18:00  <frosch123> planetmaker: maybe 1.4.0 fixes the oilrig transfers :p
20:18:04  <planetmaker> :-)
20:18:06  <frosch123> by adding infrasharing :p
20:18:15  <frosch123> damn, i meane 1.3.3 ofc
20:18:25  <planetmaker> :P
20:18:32  <frosch123> ruined joke :/
20:18:46  <planetmaker> cookie?
20:19:17  <frosch123> what's the schedule for the eints site acceptance test?
20:19:42  <planetmaker> I thought you made that :D
20:20:47  <frosch123> when is the end of test operation? and start of final production? :p
20:21:28  <frosch123> according to redmine rights noone but me tested it though
20:21:43  <frosch123> can we shovel that upon andy? :p
20:21:49  <planetmaker> maybe we test it ^^
20:21:50  <planetmaker> my thought
20:22:21  <planetmaker> quite honestly, I think that's a good idea
20:22:49  <frosch123> what? letting andy do it? :p
20:23:10  <planetmaker> no. But open it for the 'real' FIRS project and use that to test...
20:24:03  <planetmaker> what does ^Spike^ think?
20:24:04  <Alberth> clone the project, and manually upload changes back to the real live project?
20:24:20  <alluke> would 1.3.3 contain bugs if it had cd?
20:24:22  <frosch123> we already clone it :p
20:24:58  <frosch123> alluke: flyspray has currently the highest bug count since years
20:24:59  <Alberth> alluke: the bug being that it had a new feature?  yes
20:24:59  <planetmaker> something broke eints-test building...
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20:25:22  <alluke> right
20:25:48  <frosch123> though they are likely not related to cdist in most cases :p
20:25:54  <planetmaker> :-)
20:26:00  <frosch123> but just to stress the difference between 1.3 and nightly
20:26:09  <^Spike^> huh what where
20:27:44  <planetmaker> - going live? Or should we take some further precautions or tests or wait for something, ^Spike^ ?
20:28:19  <planetmaker> like ldap?
20:28:20  <alluke> access denied
20:28:22  <alluke> wants pw
20:28:26  <planetmaker> yes
20:28:37  <planetmaker> that's intended :-)
20:28:41  <alluke> thought so
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20:28:44  <^Spike^> ldap won't be coming today/tomorrow
20:28:48  <^Spike^> so i would say live imo
20:28:49  <planetmaker> though the project list IMHO should not require one (feature request!)
20:28:54  <^Spike^> for webusers that is...
20:28:59  <planetmaker> yes, only web users
20:29:02  <alluke> will it give me line to translate and a box to enter the translation
20:29:06  <alluke> then just press ok
20:29:10  <^Spike^> that needs a more extensive plan planetmaker :)
20:29:12  <^Spike^> as you know :)
20:29:14  <planetmaker> alluke, do you have a DevZone account? use that
20:29:20  <alluke> ok
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20:29:47  <^Spike^> for that project well we will look at everything authenticating using our services
20:30:15  <planetmaker> ok, so let's then get it going into public test service :-)
20:30:20  <planetmaker> aka andy's projects :D
20:30:27  <frosch123> planetmaker: i just wonder how much usability complains we will get
20:30:38  <frosch123> eints clearly works if you know what you are doing
20:30:54  <alluke> when i press start fixing it doesnt accept my pw anymore :(
20:31:09  <^Spike^> alluke prob cause you need the proper role if i understaand that right :D
20:31:20  <^Spike^> frosch123 shame it doesn't account for admin roles :)
20:31:20  <frosch123> but e.g. it keeps you asking for user and password for creating new projects, even if you won't be allowed to do it in any case
20:31:26  <^Spike^> aka you're admin you may do it all :)
20:31:41  <alluke> okay
20:31:43  <planetmaker> right, alluke what language do you speak?
20:31:48  <frosch123> ^Spike^: i think there even is one
20:31:53  <alluke> finnish
20:32:27  <^Spike^> it doesn't allow me to edit a different language ;)
20:32:30  <planetmaker> you might try finnish now
20:32:31  <frosch123> yeah, that's exactly the issue i meant
20:32:33  <alluke> k
20:32:44  <planetmaker> I wonder if it works
20:32:46  <frosch123> it does not tell you "you are not allowed to do this", but just asks you for a different user/pw :p
20:32:57  <^Spike^> but i'm a redmine admin :)
20:33:02  <planetmaker> :D
20:33:23  <^Spike^> and assigning myself all those roles is a bit too much :D
20:33:31  <planetmaker> that's indeed a usability issue, frosch123
20:34:10  <planetmaker> it probably should tell what level of rights it requires
20:34:20  <planetmaker> so that you can guestimate whether you may succeed or not
20:34:30  <planetmaker> or not offer that choice
20:34:37  <planetmaker> still... we should test-run it
20:34:41  <^Spike^> true :)
20:34:44  <planetmaker> only that way we get that feed-back
20:34:47  <^Spike^> yep :)
20:34:50  <^Spike^> like mine :D
20:35:00  <^Spike^> an admin without permissions... tsk... ;)
20:35:06  <planetmaker> alluke, mind, that eints-test is not a real project
20:35:10  <planetmaker> it's our test case
20:35:13  <frosch123> ^Spike^: ok, apparently there is no global admin role
20:35:18  <^Spike^> ehm...
20:35:24  <frosch123> you need to be "Translation Manager" of every project
20:35:25  <^Spike^> there is an admin flag with a user i think
20:35:30  <planetmaker> so spare your real effort for when we add real projects, like FIRS :-)
20:35:32  <alluke> ok
20:35:38  <alluke> so those strings wont be used anywhere?
20:35:52  <^Spike^> eints-test prob not.. we use it for testcases of multiple services atm :D
20:36:09  <alluke> ok
20:36:19  <planetmaker> eints-test won't be used anywhere, it's a firs clone which I already spoilt
20:36:40  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:36:58  <^Spike^> frosch123 the users table has a column: admin set t/f depending on if the person is a admin :)
20:37:12  <frosch123> yes, but eints does not care about such stuff :p
20:37:16  <^Spike^> or is that a hard one to code it? :)
20:37:36  <frosch123> let's say i do not consider it important at the moment :p
20:37:47  <^Spike^> not? :D
20:38:04  <frosch123> you can do your dirty things via hg :p
20:38:13  <^Spike^> .... :)
20:38:43  <^Spike^> i just make all issues in redmine low priority on a cron for eints project and my own high priority the whole time ;)
20:38:56  <^Spike^> state: MUSTFIX! :)
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20:41:06  <alluke> good night
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20:43:22  <^Spike^> oh well time for me to work on something intresting for ottdc :)
20:43:32  <^Spike^> atleast for ppl running the servers :D
20:46:43  <frosch123> night
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21:04:32  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven:  Xaroth closed the pull request in a few seconds
21:04:35  <Xaroth|Work> awesome grammar
21:04:38  <Xaroth|Work> but cheers for the pr
21:05:01  <TWerkhoven> yw
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