Log for #openttd on 10th November 2013:
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01:29:02  * Supercheese needs more bits in the map array
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01:32:30  <Eddi|zuHause> that's fairly easy. but you better have a good reason
01:32:42  <Supercheese> Oh, I have a terrible reason
01:32:55  <Supercheese> I'm trying to add patches to the New Map Features patch
01:33:32  <Supercheese> which is almost a complete fork to begin with
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01:49:41  <krinn>
01:50:07  <krinn> that link isn't complete: just saw a {CARGO_LIST} that isn't in it, where can i get full one?
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01:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause> it has probably not been updated
01:52:53  <krinn> how do translators ?
01:55:43  <Eddi|zuHause> translators don't really have to care, they just have to copy the same that are in the original string. the only thing they can do is rearrange stuff and add plural forms etc.
01:56:39  <krinn> ah, any chance they are all define in the same file then ? :)
02:02:38  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. try src/string.cpp or something
02:09:44  <krinn> src/strings.cpp nearly good catch :)
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08:54:16  <andythenorth> o/
08:56:13  <Taede> o/
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08:57:44  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: can you think of an effective way to detect if a vehicle is the last instance of its type in a consist (assuming 3 part articulated vehicles)
08:57:45  <andythenorth> ?
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09:37:42  * andythenorth figures out an alternative solution
09:39:33  <peter1138> Step 1: Give up
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09:41:24  <Taede> step 2: youre bored, try again
09:44:08  <peter1138> :)
09:44:37  <andythenorth> step 3: remember you're supposed to have encrypted your boot drive
09:44:50  <andythenorth> step 4: enrypt, cross fingers it's worked
09:45:16  <Taede> step5: realise you can no longer access your boot drive
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10:00:14  <andythenorth> hmm
10:00:34  <andythenorth> how to check ID of another vehicle in a train consist?
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10:03:02  <andythenorth> I guess I have to check the newgrf ID as well?
10:03:33  <Wolf01> hello
10:03:41  <Alberth> hello Wolf01, andy
10:04:28  * andythenorth needs someone to help code :P
10:05:09  <planetmaker> wagons from another newgrf, andythenorth ?
10:05:39  <andythenorth> nah
10:05:43  <andythenorth> same newgrf
10:05:57  <andythenorth> I think there's an 80+ var for it
10:06:00  <planetmaker> yes
10:06:05  <andythenorth> I figured I also needed to ensure it's same grf?
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10:06:58  <planetmaker> grfid and vehicle_type_id are what you need
10:07:15  <planetmaker> don't you ever look at the NML documentation? :-)
10:07:20  <planetmaker>
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10:07:41  <andythenorth> I have a bad habit of reading the nfo docs instead :P
10:07:51  <andythenorth> and then reading the nml src :P
10:08:11  <Alberth> :o an expert in nml, that's useful
10:08:13  <planetmaker> yeah, you can book a plane via brasilia when travelling between london and paris
10:09:00  <andythenorth> hmm
10:09:04  <andythenorth> nml has lots of useful vars
10:09:11  <andythenorth> :)
10:09:12  <andythenorth> biab
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14:02:38  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: back to 502 again. how long is this "maintenance" supposed to take?
14:02:49  <^Spike^> hmmm
14:02:50  <^Spike^> what url?
14:03:01  <Eddi|zuHause>[eztv].torrent
14:03:03  <Eddi|zuHause> err
14:03:05  <Eddi|zuHause> wrong
14:03:07  <^Spike^> uhu...
14:03:09  <planetmaker> loool
14:03:12  <^Spike^> we don't host that.. you know that right ;)
14:03:13  <Eddi|zuHause> clone
14:03:18  <^Spike^> ah that...
14:03:26  <^Spike^> planetmaker want to put the new url here for temp read access?
14:03:35  <planetmaker> yes
14:03:40  <^Spike^> or still want to check before doing that
14:03:46  <^Spike^> you sure all private stuff is set to private? :D
14:04:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i really woneder sometimes why it doesn't copy stuff if i said copy stuff
14:04:55  <^Spike^> well at this point: All your repo's belong to me
14:05:00  <^Spike^> atleast according to the website :D
14:05:57  <^Spike^> Eddi|zuHause just let us do our final checks and we might have a good read only fix (within minutes hopefully :D)
14:06:06  <Eddi|zuHause> so... all my checkouts now need to use a different url=
14:06:16  <Eddi|zuHause> ?
14:06:25  <^Spike^> well i can't change the url atm
14:06:29  <^Spike^> cause of push via ssh
14:06:39  <^Spike^> unless ppl really use the url :)
14:06:40  <^Spike^> planetmaker? :D
14:07:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i do use the push url for my own repo
14:07:28  <Eddi|zuHause> and the read-only url for all other repos
14:07:40  <Eddi|zuHause> or rather for all repos
14:07:55  <^Spike^> i will not say my personal opinion about past situations atm cause i think it's not the time for that :)
14:07:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't use ssh
14:08:48  <^Spike^> i'll just be happy if this works :)
14:12:19  <krinn> i do hg push https... are you saying it'll no more work ?
14:13:02  <^Spike^> just figuring out stuff before i do the rest ok :)
14:14:14  <planetmaker> krinn, if you need it right now, you need to use ssh, thus provide us with your public ssh key
14:14:40  <^Spike^> we are working on all over https
14:15:45  <krinn> planetmaker, i don't need it right now, it's ok, i was worried it was definitive, while it's seems it's just maintenance
14:16:09  <^Spike^> Eddi|zuHause can you try pull again? should... technically... work better now :)
14:16:10  <planetmaker> well. might take a few days
14:16:33  <planetmaker> till push w/o ssh works again
14:16:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah
14:16:40  <^Spike^>
14:16:42  <^Spike^> is read only
14:16:42  <Eddi|zuHause> seems to do
14:19:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i'll scream when i'm ready to push anything :)
14:20:01  <^Spike^> bother planetmaker for that :D
14:20:08  * krinn thinks Eddi|zuHause is in toilet
14:20:18  <^Spike^> i'm already happy this works again
14:27:08  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the command to rebuild the cache where programs are found?
14:27:29  * ^Spike^ is innocent
14:27:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the system path
14:30:28  <Eddi|zuHause> > which grfcodec
14:30:30  <Eddi|zuHause> /home/johannes/bin/grfcodec
14:30:31  <Eddi|zuHause> > grfcodec -v
14:30:33  <Eddi|zuHause> bash: /usr/bin/grfcodec: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
14:31:09  <^Spike^> echo $PATH
14:31:22  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the path is alright
14:31:25  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a cache thing
14:31:29  <^Spike^> hmmmm
14:31:32  <^Spike^> then i don't know :D
14:31:34  <^Spike^> never had that
14:31:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i had this before
14:31:48  <Eddi|zuHause> but i forgot
14:31:57  <^Spike^> init 6
14:31:58  <^Spike^> ? :)
14:32:11  <^Spike^> i so hope you didn't type that :D
14:32:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i was aiming for something less interruptive :)
14:32:21  <Alberth> rehash ?
14:32:34  <^Spike^> dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sda
14:32:38  <^Spike^> i still wonder what it does...
14:32:39  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, that worked, Alberth
14:33:34  <Eddi|zuHause> ^Spike^: either nothing or destroy everything :p
14:33:53  <^Spike^> Eddi|zuHause that's what we've been wondering at work and still want to try...
14:33:57  <Alberth> it's a shell command, so it depends on what $SHELL you use
14:33:59  <^Spike^> but no-one felt like creating a VM to test it yet :D
14:34:12  <^Spike^> and we only manage 500+ vms so :D
14:34:39  <Alberth> and no test-vm?  :o
14:34:44  <^Spike^> too many..
14:34:47  <^Spike^> but not for that :D
14:36:38  <Eddi|zuHause> ^Spike^: it may work totally different with physical or virtual devices :p
14:37:11  <^Spike^> i don't think it will... :)
14:37:21  <^Spike^> vmdks seem to act alot like physical disks :)
14:37:44  <Alberth> that includes broken sectors?  :)
14:37:59  <^Spike^> not in that aspect :D
14:38:05  <peter1138> vmdk implies vmware, ewww
14:38:19  <^Spike^> what you rather have... vmware or hyper-v? :)
14:38:29  <peter1138> kvm myself
14:38:58  <^Spike^> well it's not a bad thing...
14:39:05  <krinn> it's not like it was hard for dd to have a check if==of
14:39:10  <^Spike^> i did a study for my graduation with kvm/xen etc
14:39:21  <^Spike^> krinn you never know :D
14:39:34  <^Spike^> it was the same as a question we had last year at work... what happens when you rm -rf /
14:39:39  <^Spike^> answer: Nothing
14:39:43  <^Spike^> however... if you do rm -rf /*
14:39:46  <^Spike^> it goes like Ok!
14:39:52  <^Spike^> and bye-bye OS :D
14:39:53  <Eddi|zuHause> that DOES have a check for the special case :)
14:40:02  <^Spike^> not the /* case Eddi|zuHause ;)
14:40:05  <krinn> i don't really want dig dd source, but with all complains users keep raising because of misuse (and catastrophic result), sure i would have add that check in it
14:40:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
14:40:16  <Eddi|zuHause> can't handle ALL special cases :=)
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14:40:33  <peter1138> rm doesn't see "/*"
14:40:44  <peter1138> cos the shell's already globbed it.
14:40:51  <Eddi|zuHause> "/*" gets expanded before it's passed as command line parameter
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14:41:10  <^Spike^> oh well it was fun to do.. :)
14:41:13  <Eddi|zuHause> so what rm gets is "/bin /boot /usr ..."
14:41:22  <^Spike^> we have a talk about a customer who once did a chmod -R 777 /
14:41:25  <^Spike^> cause perms weren't correct
14:41:36  <^Spike^> then well... his site didn't work.. but neither did his server
14:41:45  <^Spike^> few weeks ago we also had a good one with a customer....
14:41:55  <^Spike^> installed android x86 on his PHYSICAL server....
14:42:06  <^Spike^> and customer was like: I know nothing about that... how did that happen!
14:43:19  <krinn> remember me a friend where he ask customer to fax his floppy content : my friend received the rounded image of the floppy media by fax
14:43:28  <^Spike^> lol
14:43:52  <krinn> and the guy ask if he can recover datas :)
14:44:03  <^Spike^> well we had the most fun when well.. basicly a collegue had to call this customer and tell him android is installed on his server...
14:44:26  <^Spike^> aka we put a second phone listening in on speaker.. closed the door and laughed way too much :D
14:44:40  <^Spike^> the reaction was priceless :)
14:45:06  <krinn> the "i didn't touch anything" quick reaction :)
14:45:11  <^Spike^> :)
14:46:01  <^Spike^> it's not like it wasn't the 3rd time within 1 year this customer fucked up his server
14:46:07  <krinn> like it's well know android likes to move with its little feet and room to install itself into a computer, people are just dumb when get caught doing so stupids things
14:46:07  <^Spike^> first chmod -R 777 /bin
14:46:11  <^Spike^> then rm -rf /bin
14:46:15  <^Spike^> then installed android...
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14:49:23  <krinn> i once saw one that install the cpu on the socket without opening the socket and then of course work hard to plug the fan on it : wonder why intel has move cpu pins to the m/b now?
14:49:37  <^Spike^> :)
15:18:55  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25963 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-11-10 15:18:49 UTC)
15:18:56  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5758]: Mixtures of old and new flows could create cycles.
15:22:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea whether this lukasz guy is a troll, a zealot, overly intelligent, overly stupid, or something entirely different
15:23:12  <^Spike^> ....
15:23:18  <^Spike^> prob stuff i'm missing... :)
15:23:40  <planetmaker> stupid 'which language is better' thread at tt-f @ ^Spike^
15:23:49  <Eddi|zuHause>
15:24:06  <^Spike^> well tt-f didn't like my registration early
15:24:09  <^Spike^> it detected something spam
15:24:17  <^Spike^> it was either my password my name or my mail
15:24:25  <^Spike^> it said it marked the fields... but i saw no marks :D
15:25:09  * ^Spike^ read one post and LMAO :)
15:25:30  <Eddi|zuHause> ^Spike^: yes, it gets even worse :p
15:26:17  <krinn> love this one Eddi|zuHause  the only way to learn walking is to run a marathon barefoot.
15:27:17  <andythenorth> wha a silly thread :)
15:28:23  <andythenorth> it's convenient that some people blindly assert that 'language x is better'
15:28:37  <andythenorth> it's like having a big sign on their saying 'I am not a very good engineer'
15:29:23  <planetmaker> :-)
15:31:51  * krinn will start the "Hands drawing > photoshop!"
15:32:11  <andythenorth> just go nuclear
15:32:16  <andythenorth> little endian vs. big endian
15:32:20  <andythenorth> risc vs. cisc
15:32:28  <Eddi|zuHause> people have done pointilism 100 years before photoshop
15:32:30  <Wolf01> tic vs tac
15:32:30  <andythenorth> emacx vs. vi
15:32:39  <andythenorth> hmm obiwan keypress
15:32:45  * andythenorth goes coding stuff
15:32:48  <krinn> sad we couldn't do the motorola mac that kick poor intel pc
15:32:56  <andythenorth> in *all the best* languages
15:33:24  <Eddi|zuHause> everybody should start learning programming by making a compiler
15:33:47  <Eddi|zuHause> because the compiler is the foundation of everything
15:34:03  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: no, no, you need to make a cpu, from raw silicon first
15:34:27  <LordAro> too many commas in there :L
15:34:35  <Eddi|zuHause> and you place the silicon by the flap of a butterfly
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15:34:40  <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, you can do program with an hexeditor, asm & no life
15:34:56  <andythenorth> first you have to invent electricity
15:35:22  <Eddi|zuHause> first, you have to invent fire
15:35:26  <Eddi|zuHause> then the wheel
15:35:28  <andythenorth> meh restarting my computer all the time is getting tedious
15:35:37  * andythenorth digresses from the digression
15:35:37  <krinn> andythenorth, i think first automation wasn't using electricity but hands to turn the machinery
15:36:02  <Eddi|zuHause> WHAT?!? you RESTART your computer?!?
15:36:03  <LordAro> invent hands?
15:36:12  <Eddi|zuHause> invent opposable thumbs
15:36:16  <andythenorth> I am booting this laptop from an external USB drive
15:36:22  <LordAro> :o
15:36:26  <andythenorth> every time I move it far, I shut it down, due to paranoia
15:37:02  <Eddi|zuHause> ooh, paranoia...
15:37:17  <krinn> LordAro, no hands need, i've saw code i'm sure was built with feet
15:37:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess there is enough reason for that in the modern post-democracy :)
15:37:55  <andythenorth> I am more concerned about the cable detaching than MI5 reading the contents of my memory tbh
15:38:23  <Taede> ductape is your friend there
15:38:49  <LordAro> krinn: :D
15:38:52  <krinn> andythenorth, yeah, but maybe your gf is more worried about her pics in it :)
15:39:34  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the wife would be worried about the gf's pics in it :p
15:39:42  <krinn> lol Eddi|zuHause
15:40:20  <krinn> wife gets worried for nothing, that's why divorce exists, as there's never nothing
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16:19:58  <Eddi|zuHause> > echo pixa >> .devzone/build/requires
16:20:04  <Eddi|zuHause> will that do what i think it does?
16:20:09  <planetmaker> no
16:20:29  <V453000> will it do what I think it does?
16:20:31  <planetmaker> currently not at least. you need the pixa repo available
16:20:39  <planetmaker> ?
16:20:41  <V453000> :P
16:20:47  <V453000> I obviously have no idea
16:21:03  <Eddi|zuHause> currently contains "grfcodec" and "eddi-nml;push"
16:21:42  <planetmaker> currently that file is basically ignored ;-)
16:21:55  <Eddi|zuHause> how come it works, then?
16:22:01  <^Spike^> currently jenkins does the work... :)
16:22:40  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I told cets to use the eddi-nml for building
16:22:48  <planetmaker> in jenkins build rules
16:23:45  <Eddi|zuHause> so you made the rules from this file, but it won't be updated automatically if i change it?
16:24:14  <planetmaker> basically yes
16:25:43  <Eddi|zuHause> then i commit this anyway, in case that file is ever used again, but you have to add pixa manually to the compile farm
16:25:45  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the Makefile will be used
16:25:52  <planetmaker> But the dependencies not automatically installed
16:26:03  <planetmaker> ok
16:27:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i have some half-baked code to detect whether pixa is installed, but i have no clue if the following code handles the then missing image files correctly
16:27:42  <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm not bored enough to test that :p
16:27:52  <^Spike^> well if we know we are missing dependencies... we can just add them to the "Must install by default" list :)
16:28:54  <Eddi|zuHause> now i need some pixa shapes, then i bother you to push things :p
16:29:08  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, if you want to go the long way, you can install in the Makefile a schroot and then install all dependencies therein ;-)
16:29:45  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the makefile is supposed to be for people other than the devzone as well :p
16:29:54  <planetmaker> :D
16:30:20  <krinn> can newgrf change (does this exist) size of hq (+ than 4 tiles)
16:30:33  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the specfile in .devzone, is that ignored as well?
16:30:58  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: no
16:31:08  <krinn> thank you Eddi|zuHause
16:33:10  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, currently also yes
16:33:43  <planetmaker> It's a plan to use those files again. But... the urgency is not on 'high' :)
16:35:31  <planetmaker> make NML=~/bin/repos/nml-eddi/nmlc
16:35:31  <planetmaker> make bundle_zip NML=~/bin/repos/nml-eddi/nmlc
16:35:31  <planetmaker> make bundle_src NML=~/bin/repos/nml-eddi/nmlc
16:35:40  <planetmaker> ^ that's what being called, Eddi|zuHause ;-)
16:35:48  <planetmaker> +is
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16:41:43  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: 	import pixa; import Image <-- those are the two things that need to work
16:42:14  <Eddi|zuHause> where Image is probably some default module
16:42:55  <planetmaker> image is PIL or pillow
16:43:06  <Eddi|zuHause> ok
16:43:20  <planetmaker> I guess no NML project works without :-)
16:43:32  <planetmaker> not even NML itself
16:43:54  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds safe enough :=)
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16:46:47  <planetmaker> but looks like I need to setup pixa in the first place :D
16:49:08  <Eddi|zuHause> hmm... new grfcodec takes awfully long...
16:51:01  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, does pixa have some kind of selftest?
16:51:09  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea
16:51:13  <Eddi|zuHause> ask andythenorth :)
16:52:01  <planetmaker> ^ andythenorth does pixa have some self-test?
16:52:18  <planetmaker> which I could execute before I update the pixa version on the CF?
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16:55:28  <Eddi|zuHause> loos like CETS has 3 kinds of nforenum warnings left:
16:55:31  <Eddi|zuHause> //!!Warning (109): Offset 71: Property 1D is previously defined at offset 64.
16:55:40  <Eddi|zuHause> //!!Warning (170): Default result cannot be reached.
16:55:49  <Eddi|zuHause> //!!Warning (147): Offset 108: Insufficient stack data for control character 80.
16:55:52  <planetmaker> disable 170 ;-)
16:56:10  <Eddi|zuHause> nml should put that into the nfo output automatically
16:57:22  <peter1138> nml outputs nfo?
16:57:35  <planetmaker> since its beginning, yes
16:57:49  <planetmaker> that's what it started with actually.
16:57:55  <planetmaker> then grf output was added
16:57:55  <peter1138> Hmm, odd, I thought it didn't.
16:58:16  <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc can choose whether to output grf or nfo
16:58:24  <planetmaker> so usually there's little need to use the nfo output
16:58:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the 147 warning is bogus
16:59:06  <Eddi|zuHause> as i supply the "stack data" via cb23
16:59:32  <Eddi|zuHause> and 109 is probably a nml bug
17:00:31  <Eddi|zuHause> can i pass the ignore parameter to nforenum?
17:01:04  <planetmaker> nforenum --help ;-)
17:01:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i found it
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17:02:51  *** Devroush [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:06:35  <Eddi|zuHause> so, that part works now finally to some way of satisfaction :)
17:12:33  <planetmaker> so, pixa should be installed
17:14:16  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:14:46  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: if you can do a cets test compile, the "warning: pixa is not installed" line should disappear
17:20:47  <andythenorth> planetmaker: pixa has zero tests ;)
17:21:34  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: nothing else should happen, as the code is currently unused
17:21:59  <Eddi|zuHause> at least until i push my changes
17:32:37  <andythenorth> it's always fun
17:32:42  <andythenorth> trying to remember my own API :P
17:32:59  <planetmaker> ok :-)
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18:22:16  <Wolf01> bye
18:22:21  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
18:28:34  <planetmaker> @ Eddi|zuHause
18:29:34  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i don't see a build log there
18:31:09  <^Spike^> click console?
18:31:28  <^Spike^>
18:31:30  <Eddi|zuHause> ah there it is
18:31:46  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah that looks right
18:34:05  <Eddi|zuHause> build #2 (same rev) had this line: "13:04:56 WARNING: WARNING: pixa is not installed, automatic sprite processing is disabled"
18:34:26  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure why it says "WARNING" twice
18:34:58  <^Spike^> prob cause jenkins detexted it as warning and put that infornt of it? :D
18:35:19  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't say twice on the other warnings
18:35:39  <Eddi|zuHause> probably my own fault, but doesn't really matter
18:36:23  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, there it is...
18:45:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25964 trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt (2013-11-10 18:45:10 UTC)
18:45:18  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:19  <DorpsGek> catalan - 2 changes by juanjo
19:10:59  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i need a field based diff...
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19:22:11  *** alluke [] has joined #openttd
19:22:33  <alluke> HTTP Read-Only access is available at Should you need to push you can ask for ssh access to the repositories. Sorry for the inconvenience
19:22:38  <alluke> whats this
19:22:49  <^Spike^> what it says?
19:22:52  <alluke> suddenly i cant access the repository anymore
19:23:09  <^Spike^> well you couldn't for 3-4 days cause of some stuff failing
19:23:16  <^Spike^> seems you found out today :)
19:23:55  <alluke> i was there half an hour ago
19:24:02  <^Spike^> what repo?
19:24:18  <alluke> yeah
19:24:26  <alluke> no
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19:24:50  <alluke> last file downloaded 3-4 hours ago
19:25:12  <alluke> time flies
19:25:40  <^Spike^> working on the read-only part atm
19:29:31  <Eddi|zuHause> how do i ask hg for the unmodified version of a file?
19:29:50  <Eddi|zuHause> as in "redirect this into a different file"
19:30:38  <SpComb> hg cat
19:30:56  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, thanks
19:31:27  <Eddi|zuHause> next: how do i use sed to replace tabs with newlines?
19:31:43  <SpComb> wait what, tabs with newlines?
19:31:55  <planetmaker> s s/\t/\n/g
19:32:24  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, have to enclose it in ''
19:32:50  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: use tr?
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19:57:15  <zydeco> heh full screen on mac is nice now
19:57:25  <zydeco> no more cursor getting lost problems
19:57:49  <zydeco> I also made this patch a while ago, but I'm not sure if it's right
19:57:50  <zydeco>
19:58:17  <zydeco> it should probably ask, instead of just opening it without saving your current game
20:05:02  <Supercheese> is default_cargo_type not available for aircraft?
20:06:32  <Eddi|zuHause> did you try?
20:06:48  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
20:07:47  <Supercheese> yes
20:08:09  <Supercheese> Unknown property name
20:09:07  <Supercheese> seems cargo capacity is handled quite differently with aircraft
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20:09:31  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly
20:09:42  <Supercheese> I'll try some callbacks
20:10:02  <krinn> probably because aircraft handle two cargos and not only one
20:11:28  <Eddi|zuHause> why is tt-*.com so slow lately?
20:11:38  <Eddi|zuHause> .net
20:12:00  <LordAro> dunno, orudge said he was looking into it
20:12:07  <LordAro> suspected the same problem as before
20:12:44  <Eddi|zuHause> and what was the problem before?
20:14:28  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: i can't find a cargo type property for aircraft in nfo specs, looks like it always assumes passengers
20:14:53  <krinn> but aircraft default is pass+mail
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20:18:39  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: mail is automatic if first cargo is passengers
20:20:49  <krinn> must be default so, i know 0 aircraft that aren't pass/mail when built
20:22:53  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: can be done if you set the secondary capacity to 0
20:30:50  <krinn> i see the forum is slow, it must be very slow if even a french can detect it as slow
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20:40:55  <Eddi|zuHause> is there somewhere a list of textual colour names to colour indices?
20:41:36  <Eddi|zuHause> as in "red", "green". "silver"
20:42:49  <krinn> not in string dev manual
20:43:30  <Supercheese> Hmm, I don't recall ever seeing one
20:44:04  <Taede> <-- will the one at the bottom of that file do?
20:44:34  <krinn> found this one  : docs/palettes/ottd-colourtext-palette.jpg
20:44:55  <krinn> well, png not jpg
20:45:56  <Supercheese> that looks to be the proper reference
20:46:10  <Supercheese> although in my checkout that's just in docs, not docs\palettes
20:46:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Taede: no, those are not the indices into the palette
20:46:56  <krinn> Supercheese, from source not checkout
20:50:19  <planetmaker> uh, the checkout should give you the source ;-)
20:51:14  <krinn> ah yes, it's in docs not palettes
20:51:39  <krinn> (i should close some window, getting hard to see anything)
20:53:56  <Eddi|zuHause> ah... src/table/palettes.h -> _string_colourmap
20:54:25  <Supercheese> Yikes, surprisingly vehement argument on the forums concerning the "best" way to learn programming
20:57:41  <krinn> More vehement than you think :D ->    Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2) [2002]
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21:13:25  <andythenorth> hmm
21:13:46  * andythenorth adventures in specs
21:14:18  <andythenorth> newgrf specs are slow :)
21:14:26  <juzza1> has anyone any experience in converting images from rgb to ttd palette through the command line? i have tried Gimp and Imagemagick, Gimp quantization algorithm does some weird stuff when converting to custom palette (known bug), and imagemagick discards any unused colours from the color map
21:14:50  <andythenorth> I can do it with PIL, but you'd rather not bother
21:14:55  <juzza1> one way which could work is to include all the palette colours in all of the images, but i don't like that approach
21:15:08  <andythenorth> I automate it with photoshop when I need to do it
21:15:35  <andythenorth> what's wrong with including all the colours in the palette?
21:15:54  <Eddi|zuHause> difficult to do with the animation colours
21:16:09  <planetmaker> juzza1, if you find a way, please document step-by-step :-)
21:16:14  <andythenorth> hmm
21:16:19  <planetmaker> I tried those two you mentioned, too ;-)
21:16:21  <Eddi|zuHause> juzza1: you're probably missing a parameter to imagemagic
21:16:25  <juzza1> i meant to literally draw all of the palette colours in the images
21:16:37  <planetmaker> palette can be given to imagemagic. But meh... result is still bad
21:16:56  <andythenorth> I use PIL to extract a palette from one image, then apply it to others
21:16:59  <andythenorth> but it involves PIL
21:17:01  <andythenorth> you won't like PIL
21:17:07  <andythenorth> meanwhile, did nml get any support for var 61?
21:17:09  <andythenorth> I figured not
21:17:40  <planetmaker> yes, did. For long.
21:17:49  <planetmaker> But there are many features which have it ;-)
21:17:59  <planetmaker> for instance industry tiles
21:18:05  <andythenorth> train var 61 ;)
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21:18:14  <andythenorth> there was none last time I checked
21:18:15  <Supercheese> I use a GIMP script
21:18:23  <Supercheese> found it on the forums somewhere...
21:19:21  <juzza1> well i already tried it, and it cant do 1:1 conversion from rgb to ttd palette
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21:19:37  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: var[0x61, 0, 0x0000FFFF, %s]
21:19:49  <andythenorth> yeah, that's my current solution :)
21:19:50  <Eddi|zuHause> where %s is the NFO variable
21:19:53  <Supercheese>
21:20:05  <andythenorth> works fine, just wondering about more nml-like syntax
21:20:18  <juzza1> for example, bright red (fc0000) always gets converted to action red (ff0000) which is not good at all
21:20:19  <Eddi|zuHause> well you know the suggestion, write it :p
21:20:38  <andythenorth> :)
21:21:17  * andythenorth is reading nml src to find which var number vehicle_type_id maps to
21:21:24  <andythenorth> hmm 0xC6
21:22:12  <andythenorth> size 16 = word?
21:22:22  <andythenorth> or byte?
21:23:00  <Supercheese> nibble
21:23:12  <andythenorth> nah
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21:24:09  <andythenorth> ach I'll just mask with 0x0000FFFF, probably will work :P
21:28:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is size 16 :)
21:28:52  <__ln__> ookay, i was watching Gravity 3D in the cinema, and i think people on this channel should watch it as well.
21:29:13  <andythenorth> hmm
21:29:26  <andythenorth> I think I'm doing bad things with articulated part properties
21:29:30  <andythenorth> oh well
21:29:34  <andythenorth> figure that out later :(
21:30:24  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:33:24  <__ln__> a sci-fi movie about space flight, with non-fictional technology, and no aliens, and nobody gets shot. and visually great.
21:33:43  <Supercheese> sounds boring :P
21:34:01  <Supercheese> joking aside, it did seem to get rave reviews
21:35:38  <__ln__> doesn't get boring, no.
21:35:50  <andythenorth> hmm
21:36:21  <andythenorth> nml integer ID vs. the ID in var 0xC6?
21:36:36  <andythenorth> do I need to convert the integer ID to a hex repr?
21:38:52  <Eddi|zuHause> what how why?
21:39:05  <Eddi|zuHause> no, nml does all those conversions for you
21:39:42  <andythenorth> how, in the case of a switch checking the result of var 0x61 for a neighbouring vehicle ID?
21:39:47  <andythenorth> how does it do that?
21:40:47  <Eddi|zuHause> switch(var16[blah]) { 0 : x; 1: y; 0xAAB4: z;}
21:41:10  <Eddi|zuHause> *var61
21:41:48  <andythenorth> I'll paste ;)
21:42:35  <Eddi|zuHause> aslo, instead of a number you can give the vehicle's name
21:42:45  <planetmaker> preferentially actually
21:43:00  <planetmaker> for readability reasons
21:44:01  <andythenorth> name didn't work
21:44:20  <andythenorth> which suggests my offset is borked
21:44:26  <andythenorth>
21:44:34  * andythenorth counts on fingers
21:44:37  <andythenorth> maybe also thumb
21:47:09  <andythenorth> hmm, only the depot view is borked, ok, fix that :P
21:49:28  <andythenorth> ho ho it works :)
21:49:29  <andythenorth> thanks
21:50:52  <planetmaker> g'night
21:51:18  <andythenorth> bye planetmaker
21:52:42  <Eddi|zuHause> enough playing around with pixa/template code, now to introduce some actual templates
21:54:20  <andythenorth> :)
22:01:04  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
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22:11:44  <andythenorth> night
22:11:45  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
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22:47:20  <NGC3982> Man.
22:47:32  <NGC3982> If trams was this profitable in real life
22:47:43  <NGC3982> I would be in the wrong biz.
22:48:59  <Supercheese> I once considered adding "teleporter" vehicles to OTTD, but then I realized trunk already has that feature, it's called Distant-Join stations
22:49:13  <Eddi|zuHause> that's because the game doesn't model individual traffic properly
22:49:24  <Eddi|zuHause> (both depriving you of cargo and congesting the roads)
22:49:48  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: and before that it was called station walking
22:49:58  * NGC3982 instantly thought of a portal grf.
22:50:08  <Supercheese> which was just a more cumbersome version of the same thing
22:50:11  <NGC3982> A Portal grf*
22:50:43  <Supercheese> make a Cake cargo, and have no vehicles that can refit to it
22:50:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i never actually played portal
22:51:10  <Eddi|zuHause> even though i downloaded it for free from steam
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22:51:27  <Supercheese> a single playthrough doesn't take much time
22:59:33  <Prof_Frink> Supercheese: No, make a Cake cargo, but limit the production to 0 cakes/month
22:59:46  <Supercheese> yeah, something like that
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23:18:42  <Wolf01> 'night
23:18:45  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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23:36:46  <peter1138> scrabble gave me... iiioooo
23:38:59  <glx> good luck
23:54:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i figured it out!!... the guy just has a bite-reflex "all the kids on the internet use it" => "it must be a bad language"
23:54:52  <Eddi|zuHause> without actually knowing what the language does, how it is designed, ...
23:55:16  <glx> php ?
23:55:48  <Eddi|zuHause> the "beginners should learn C, not python" guy in the forum
23:56:15  <glx> language depends on the goal
23:56:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
23:56:38  <Eddi|zuHause> we all know that :p
23:56:47  <glx> and python is not the worse to start learning ;)
23:58:36  <Eddi|zuHause>

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