Log for #openttd on 1st December 2013:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:06:00  *** Super_Random [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:06:11  *** Super_Random [] has joined #openttd
00:10:07  *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@] has joined #openttd
00:13:38  *** skyem123 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:15:05  *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:15:44  *** DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ
00:29:07  *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
00:30:45  *** GriffinOneTwo [] has joined #openttd
00:37:11  *** Superuser [] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.]
00:44:02  <Wolf01> 'night
00:44:06  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
01:08:30  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:11:46  *** kero [] has joined #openttd
01:17:17  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:20:47  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
01:20:52  *** treaki_ [] has joined #openttd
01:27:30  *** yorick [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:28:01  *** treaki__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:37:23  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:46:36  *** Elukka [] has quit []
01:58:54  *** montalvo [] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client:]
02:05:11  *** tycoondemon2 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:05:25  *** tycoondemon [] has joined #openttd
02:20:40  *** Alice3 [] has quit []
02:22:05  *** adf88 [] has quit [Quit: adf88]
02:29:20  *** TomyLobo [] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...]
02:34:17  *** Lord_Aro [] has joined #openttd
02:38:48  *** LordAro [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:52:13  *** LuHa [~LuHa@] has joined #openttd
02:52:15  *** Lord_Aro [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:53:51  *** roadt_ [~roadt@] has joined #openttd
02:55:37  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:05:16  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
03:30:22  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
03:36:23  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:48:37  *** LuHa [~LuHa@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:57:07  *** kero [] has quit [Quit: kero]
04:01:05  *** roadt_ [~roadt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:33:40  *** roadt_ [~roadt@] has joined #openttd
05:18:16  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
06:46:00  *** roadt_ [~roadt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:46:02  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
06:46:16  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
07:17:15  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
07:25:04  *** Jomann [] has joined #openttd
07:32:10  *** abchirk_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:32:39  <andythenorth> o/
07:54:30  *** Super_Random [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium]
08:04:49  *** Japa__ [~Japa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:30:21  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
08:34:41  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
08:37:47  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
08:44:01  *** waterfoul [] has joined #openttd
08:44:57  <waterfoul> I've built a cyclotron and the signals seem to be working correctly but instead of the train going around and the train manintaining speed it stops. any ideas?
08:46:52  <V453000> yeah, apart from cyclotrons being stupid and useless, you can still either enable 2way eol setting, or stop building them :P or both!
08:46:57  <V453000> both is the best option
08:46:59  <Eddi|zuHause> coop stuff silently assumes that you enabled the hidden setting "pf.yapf.rail_two_way_eol"
08:47:42  <waterfoul> ok, I've got a merge that keeps slowing down the main line because the train isn't ar top speed, any better suggestions to fix this?
08:47:55  <V453000> it is actually mentioned on some pages Eddi
08:48:08  <V453000> yeah add another line waterfoul
08:49:27  <Eddi|zuHause> the setting is actually silly, as most stuff you can build in a way that it works without this setting
08:49:43  <waterfoul> any docs on the setting? my googlefu is failing
08:50:11  <Eddi|zuHause> you change hidden settings on the console
08:50:29  <waterfoul> right but before I change it I want to know what it does
08:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> or in the openttd.cfg (won't apply to your savegame)
08:50:45  <V453000> most stuff == with idiotic pathfinding penalty counting and poor reliability (recounting values upon edits?), not to mention that some things like mainly the key sending trains to dead ends is not possible I think
08:50:48  <V453000> so yeah
08:51:41  <V453000>
08:51:54  <V453000> btw Eddi I am fairly confident that cyclotron isnt quite "a coop thing"
08:51:58  <waterfoul> thanks
08:52:08  <V453000> for one because it isnt really useful for bigger networks
08:52:32  <V453000> people lazy to add more lines just use it in hope that it will be enough to improve their one line
08:52:45  <V453000> which isnt exactly the fitting logic :P
08:52:48  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: don't challenge my prejudices!
08:53:00  <V453000> !! :D
08:53:21  <waterfoul> right but the side line isn't injecting enough traffic to warrant a mainline, I was just after merging at top speed
08:53:42  <V453000> in fact cyclotron doesnt even seem to exist on our wiki :D
08:54:01  <V453000> get better accelerating trains waterfoul :)
08:54:11  <waterfoul> using the LEV4
08:54:18  <V453000> yeah thats about the worst you can get
08:54:32  <waterfoul> are any of the other levs better?
08:54:41  <V453000> lev3 accelerates considerably better
08:54:54  <V453000> for one because it is half the length so you can use more of them
08:55:04  <V453000> aaaaand they are slower so they reach the top speed quicker
08:55:22  <V453000> obviously SH40 is even better in acceleration but kind of boring to use that slow train :)
08:55:26  <V453000> perhaps try some train set
08:55:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i thought you'd answer like "use the slugs!" :p
08:55:57  <V453000> nay :D
08:56:32  <Eddi|zuHause> use CETS (but that doesn't have any fast freight wagons)
08:56:45  <Eddi|zuHause> (nor any maglev)
08:56:47  <V453000> :DDD
08:56:53  <V453000> nor anything else almost? :D
08:56:59  <V453000> or NUTS, it has everything :P
08:57:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it has about 1000 engines :p
08:57:13  <V453000> without sprites (.
08:57:33  <Eddi|zuHause> it has coloured boxes now, instead of green boxes
08:57:46  <V453000> lol
08:57:57  <V453000> thats pretty much what my steamer tenders look like right now :D
08:58:36  * andythenorth reads up
08:58:38  <andythenorth> eh?
08:58:45  <andythenorth> hmm
08:59:02  <andythenorth> isn't the most efficient route one line per train?
08:59:11  <V453000> what
08:59:15  <andythenorth> that avoids all this merging crap and such
08:59:27  <andythenorth> that's how I play when I care about speed
08:59:32  <V453000> :|
08:59:39  <Eddi|zuHause> that also severely limits your capacity per space
08:59:40  <V453000> andythenorth please :D
09:04:06  <andythenorth> so with YACD, the best pax networks (especially at game start) are dense clusters
09:04:19  <andythenorth> and adding more nearby nodes is good, even if they are small villages
09:04:26  <andythenorth> does the same apply for cdist?
09:05:26  <andythenorth> also how do I figure out where passengers want to go?
09:05:41  <andythenorth> YACD tells me the destinations, including unmet demand
09:07:39  <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist plays much different, it doesn't force you to cover all sources/destinations
09:08:20  <V453000> cargodist doesnt force you to use cargodist, its perfect :D
09:08:21  <V453000> :DDD
09:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause> in yacd this is a real hassle in the early game with lots of different industries/cargos
09:08:53  <V453000> in yacd the easiest AND best network = web of stations, no junctions, just station---station connections
09:09:11  <andythenorth> so I have 4 nodes connected in my pax network.  But how do I know which to connect next?
09:09:18  <V453000> mainly because stations solve all the redistribution, not to mention the "local destinations"
09:09:26  <V453000> any :D
09:10:31  * andythenorth wonders where passengers are going
09:10:32  <planetmaker> moin
09:10:37  <andythenorth> everything is 'via'
09:10:48  *** Tom_Soft [~id@] has joined #openttd
09:10:58  <andythenorth> I don't get how people can demand to go 'via'
09:10:59  <Eddi|zuHause> click on "via-destination-source" and change that to "destination-via-source"
09:11:05  <andythenorth> ok
09:11:31  <andythenorth> that makes more sense
09:11:47  <andythenorth> oh but I still have to build the routes 'via'
09:11:55  <andythenorth> so just adding more capacity to the destination is no good?
09:12:05  <Eddi|zuHause> "via" is which next stop they take
09:12:22  <andythenorth> why is the demand expressed for routing, not for destination? o_O
09:12:25  <Eddi|zuHause> this can be used to find bottlenecks in your network
09:12:27  * andythenorth is very confused
09:12:51  *** Pensacola [] has joined #openttd
09:13:12  <andythenorth> does cdist even have a concept of demand?
09:13:13  <Eddi|zuHause> if your train has not enough capacity, people pile up for "via" while they may have lots of different "destinations"
09:13:20  <andythenorth> is my thinking faulty?
09:13:38  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. demand is fixed
09:13:49  <Eddi|zuHause> demand is calculated on distance
09:14:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. if you connect two power stations to one coal mine, the closer one will get more cargo
09:14:53  <Eddi|zuHause> for symmetric cargos like passengers, demand equals production
09:16:37  <andythenorth> so how do I see demand?  So I know which routes to build?
09:16:40  <andythenorth> I can't see any demand view
09:17:01  <Eddi|zuHause> in cargodist there is no demand before you make a route
09:17:40  <andythenorth> so I have to build the route to create demand?
09:17:44  <V453000> turning cargodist off is always a  solution andythenorth  :P
09:17:46  <V453000> yes
09:17:48  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
09:18:03  <andythenorth> hmm
09:18:35  <andythenorth> so if I add a node to my small pax network, the other vehicles will make less money?
09:19:10  <andythenorth> as some of their pax cargos will be re-routed to the new node?
09:19:39  <Eddi|zuHause> no-ish, because the cargo from the new node, plus the increased distance, may generate more income overall
09:41:58  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
09:50:08  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
09:53:20  *** Alberth [] has joined #openttd
09:53:23  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
09:56:06  *** tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
09:56:09  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
10:01:48  *** tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:17:00  *** Japa [~Japa@] has joined #openttd
10:21:36  *** retro|cz [] has joined #openttd
10:22:47  *** LordAro [] has joined #openttd
10:23:37  *** roadt_ [~roadt@] has joined #openttd
10:24:28  <andythenorth> when are flat docks being added? :(
10:24:47  <andythenorth> construction for river docks is stupid
10:26:51  <V453000> train stations are flat?
10:27:18  <V453000> remove ships \o/
10:28:12  <andythenorth> V453000: I like your thinking
10:28:20  <andythenorth> I think it is practical, and gets stuff done
10:28:35  <V453000> see :D
10:29:37  <V453000> oh yeah and I just discovered that my templates seem to have one of the / \ directions a thing moved 2px horizontally, 1px vertically :D so it isnt a problem but it isnt symmetrical :D
10:33:55  *** DDR [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:33:55  <Alberth> nobody will notice :)
10:34:40  <V453000> sure, people wont, I very do when I try to align two templates together XD
10:35:19  <planetmaker> ^ reason enough to fix probably :D
10:35:32  <V453000> exactly :D
10:35:34  <V453000> but sometime later :d
10:35:44  <V453000> everything is "working" atm :D
10:35:51  <V453000> the "" is strong :D
10:36:28  <planetmaker> :)
10:38:05  <V453000> I can always blame andythenorth anyway
10:38:30  *** adf88 [] has joined #openttd
10:49:56  <andythenorth> meh
10:50:01  <andythenorth> I should have put a GS in this game
10:50:05  <andythenorth> sandbox is so boring
10:50:54  <V453000> play the game instead of wishing for wtf features :P
10:50:56  <V453000> is my GS :P
10:51:30  <andythenorth> how do you avoid being bored?
10:51:41  <andythenorth> I've connected a few towns, now it's 'meh'
10:52:01  *** valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
10:54:21  <Alberth> then you're done; you don't need to play the game until the year 5000000
10:55:20  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you try transporting ALL the passengers it throws at you
10:56:20  <V453000> idk how you managed to do that andy, but I generally have serious traffic problems after like 2-4 years of playing and need to expand many tracks alrey
10:56:23  <V453000> already*
10:57:33  <V453000> PERHAPS you are playing with the WRONG newGRFs? :D :P
10:58:51  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
11:02:56  <andythenorth> I have 1 line per train, what kind of traffic problems can happen there? :)
11:03:04  <andythenorth> (none)
11:09:17  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the "traffic problems" are "can't carry all cargo"
11:10:27  <andythenorth> I think I should stp
11:10:29  <andythenorth> meh
11:10:39  <andythenorth> I think I should stop playing 'full' FIRS
11:10:41  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
11:10:54  <andythenorth> too much choice, not enough high volumes of same cargo
11:12:08  <V453000> oh yeah until you supply firs very quickly, it gets boring super fast
11:12:34  <V453000> I am still saying that original/opengfx+ industries are best and most fun for playing :)
11:12:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't know, i get too meddled up with serving passengers to really take care of cargo
11:12:56  <andythenorth> also in 1870, everything takes so long to arrive
11:13:01  <andythenorth> building long routes is meh
11:13:08  <andythenorth> so can only connect nearby industries
11:13:11  <andythenorth> and there are no RVs
11:13:17  <andythenorth> nor planes
11:14:00  <planetmaker> you definitely need to play with egrvts2 horses then or so :-)
11:14:07  <V453000> :D
11:14:14  <V453000> andy go use nuts or else :P
11:14:19  <V453000> no pre-1920 rubbish
11:14:36  *** retro|cz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:16:49  <peter1138> BUT IT@S UNREALISTIC!!!!111
11:17:44  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
11:19:27  *** skyem123 [] has joined #openttd
11:22:21  <andythenorth> unrealistical
11:23:23  <andythenorth> next year I definitely write a GS
11:23:35  <andythenorth> with tedious micro-management 'challenges'
11:23:41  <andythenorth> like the casual games my kids play
11:23:43  * andythenorth is serious
11:23:53  <V453000> :D
11:23:55  <V453000> well shit
11:24:07  <V453000> hi peter1138 (:
11:24:18  * andythenorth starts a new game
11:24:35  *** Alice3 [] has joined #openttd
11:26:17  *** Japa_ [~Japa@] has joined #openttd
11:26:19  <andythenorth> wish minimap remembered last size I opened it :D
11:29:49  *** LordAro [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:30:49  <Alberth> you do know that you can set the default size of windows?
11:31:44  *** Japa [~Japa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:32:16  <andythenorth> o_O
11:33:15  <andythenorth> units are pixels?
11:34:20  <andythenorth> that's pretty awesome
11:34:46  <andythenorth> super useful
11:36:29  <Alberth>
11:36:54  <andythenorth> oh
11:36:58  <andythenorth> that's what that button does :o
11:36:58  <Alberth> blame frosch for that feature :)
11:37:07  * andythenorth edited the config file :P
11:37:28  <Alberth> lol
11:37:41  <Alberth> works too :)
11:39:06  *** TomyLobo [] has joined #openttd
11:40:47  <andythenorth> favourite new feature for me
11:41:06  <andythenorth> most of my favourite features are UI improvements, not gameplay stuff :P
11:48:57  *** LordAro [] has joined #openttd
11:49:41  *** wakou2 [] has joined #openttd
11:52:01  *** Japa__ [~Japa@] has joined #openttd
11:52:11  * peter1138 ponders playing a game.
11:52:19  <peter1138> Probably not OpenTTD...
11:53:37  <LordAro> you can play that?
11:54:03  <LordAro> peter1138: KSP is always good fun
11:54:15  * andythenorth plays a lot of Dice Wars
11:54:24  <LordAro> if only my screen didn't freeze every time i played it...
11:54:43  <peter1138> I only have the demo of KSP.
11:55:22  <andythenorth> I should have turned off rivers in this game
11:55:28  <andythenorth> rivers are misleading
11:56:07  *** roadt_ [~roadt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:56:42  <LordAro> peter1138: :O shame on you
11:56:52  <LordAro> you just missed a sale as well, i think
11:57:18  *** Japa [~Japa@] has joined #openttd
11:59:25  *** Japa_ [~Japa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:59:38  <andythenorth> V453000: I figured out how to have a fun game :)
11:59:39  <andythenorth> use trains
12:01:10  *** Ristovski [~rafael@] has joined #openttd
12:03:05  *** Japa__ [~Japa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:06:23  *** adf88 [] has quit [Quit: adf88]
12:07:48  <andythenorth> ships on rivers have the most stupid routing :)
12:08:34  <andythenorth> how do I enable 90' turns?
12:09:07  *** adf88 [] has joined #openttd
12:09:17  <LordAro> you don't?
12:09:46  <andythenorth> ugh
12:09:56  <andythenorth> ships are borked, I'm deleting this one
12:10:06  <andythenorth> it's too boring to figure this crap out
12:10:37  *** adf88 [] has quit []
12:11:36  <andythenorth> prize for 'most wanted, most discussed, but most useless feature' goes to rivers
12:12:37  <Eddi|zuHause> only if you do it wrong
12:14:10  <V453000> andythenorth discovered this game has trains
12:14:11  <V453000> :D
12:14:27  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I don't understand how to do it right
12:14:33  <andythenorth> where are the docs?
12:14:53  <andythenorth> all I can find in wiki is this
12:15:09  *** Japa_ [~Japa@] has joined #openttd
12:15:39  <andythenorth> I get other results, but nothing useful
12:20:24  <andythenorth> I do have friends who think 'figuring out the bugs in the implementation' makes a good game
12:20:33  <andythenorth> I am not made that way :(
12:21:37  <andythenorth> is 90' turns now a cfg only setting?  Or am I just missing it?
12:21:52  <LordAro> andythenorth: might be in expert settings
12:21:57  <planetmaker> advanced settings in GUI
12:21:58  <LordAro> try searching
12:22:28  <andythenorth> I did already :P
12:22:45  *** Japa [~Japa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:22:53  <planetmaker> trains section. advanced or expert level
12:22:59  <andythenorth> oh
12:23:05  <andythenorth> so advanced != expert
12:23:13  <andythenorth> and 'all settings types' isn't all
12:23:38  *** retro|cz [] has joined #openttd
12:23:56  <andythenorth> thanks :D
12:24:24  *** roadt_ [~roadt@] has joined #openttd
12:25:07  <planetmaker> you need two times 'all', on each axis once
12:25:16  <andythenorth> why do we forbid 90' turns for ships?  Is there some bug related to it?
12:25:25  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
12:25:40  <planetmaker> probably it only looks foolish. Like it does for trains, too
12:29:54  <andythenorth> routing on rivers is pretty borked with 90' forbidden
12:30:40  <Eddi|zuHause> it's even worse with original pathfinder :p
12:32:26  <andythenorth> he
12:32:29  <andythenorth> maybe I should try it :)
12:32:37  <andythenorth> I haven't had much to complain about today
12:35:06  <frosch123> just make sure there is a buoy every 4 turns
12:35:11  <frosch123> :p
12:35:52  <andythenorth> biab
12:35:53  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
13:28:30  *** adf88 [] has joined #openttd
13:38:44  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
13:39:17  <Wolf01> hello
13:43:49  <Alberth> hello Wolf01
13:44:06  <Alberth> how's Italy today?
13:45:54  <Wolf01> sunny, here
13:46:31  <Alberth> ha, it's sunny here too
13:46:50  <__ln__> lies, the sun can't be in two countries at the same time
13:47:09  <Taede> how about 3? its sunny here too
13:48:07  <LordAro> sunny in chilly old northern england too
14:03:52  *** yorick [] has joined #openttd
14:09:43  *** Elukka [] has joined #openttd
14:16:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen the sun in ages
14:22:11  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: try opening the curtains? :p
14:32:00  *** roboboy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:32:54  <NGC3982> Morning.
14:35:33  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:37:48  <Stimrol> Hello, I am starting openttd 1.3.3. and it always crashes with three top lines "no protocol specified" anyone know what this could be?
14:39:02  <Stimrol> It works to start a server with autopilot
14:40:26  <planetmaker> did you build that openttd yourself?
14:40:39  <planetmaker> what OS do you run and how do you start that openttd?
14:42:46  <Stimrol> no I dl the generic binaries for 64bit, I use ubuntu 13.04
14:43:16  <planetmaker> and you try to start openttd so you can normally play on your desktop?
14:43:32  <planetmaker> might be that ubuntu removed support for X-windows
14:43:39  <Stimrol> start it with ./openttd that crashes but I can start the server with ./autopilot.tcl
14:43:43  <planetmaker> and uses now its own display server
14:43:52  <planetmaker> just a random guess, though
14:44:11  <Stimrol> no they havent :) (jet)
14:46:12  <Stimrol> I think I know what is wrong. This is my fault. I copied the files to another user because I run a server, but I am guessing that this user doesn't have access to my particular window session
14:46:30  <planetmaker> ^ wanted to suggest that :-)
14:46:47  <Stimrol> I have to log in as to the session as that user.
14:46:55  <planetmaker> or export your display
14:46:55  <LordAro> planetmaker: iirc, they didn't remove X in 13.04
14:47:29  <peter1138> Nor 13.10
14:47:33  <planetmaker> export DISPLAY=localhost:0.0
14:47:59  <planetmaker> so they decided to not do that. good for them
14:48:06  *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:48:13  <peter1138> They were never going to remove support for X.
14:49:22  <Stimrol> thanks for the help anyway, always good to word things and then understand them yourself
14:52:18  <peter1138> Heh, 13.04 was before Mir was even announced...
14:52:23  *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@] has joined #openttd
14:55:12  <Alberth> planetmaker: better enable X11 forwarding through ssh
14:57:19  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
15:35:02  *** wakou2 [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
15:53:06  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:58:46  *** rubenwardy [] has joined #openttd
16:03:27  <LordAro> peter1138: ;)
16:16:50  *** Superuser [] has joined #openttd
16:33:52  *** GriffinOneTwo [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
16:36:38  *** Pereba [] has joined #openttd
16:40:22  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
16:43:21  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
16:43:37  *** Super_Random [] has joined #openttd
16:46:39  *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@] has joined #openttd
16:51:20  *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:57:13  * andythenorth wonders
16:57:21  <andythenorth> can I check for 90' being on, from a grf?
16:59:01  <planetmaker> you can't
16:59:05  <andythenorth> action D can't do it?
16:59:13  <andythenorth> appears not
16:59:16  <planetmaker> <-- doesn't list it
17:00:22  <andythenorth> oh well :(
17:00:43  <planetmaker> why would a NewGRF care about *path finder* settings?
17:01:32  <andythenorth> I wanted to disable river ships if 90' is turned on
17:01:42  <andythenorth> (disable 90')
17:01:52  <andythenorth> nvm
17:07:31  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
17:09:26  <andythenorth> do I need to use transfer orders with cdist?
17:17:11  <peter1138> 90 foot?
17:18:14  <peter1138> 90 minute?
17:20:47  <andythenorth> sharp turns :P
17:23:54  <peter1138> What does ' have to do with °?
17:24:35  <andythenorth> too lazy to unicode :P
17:24:59  <andythenorth> in what way does "90 apostrophe-thingy" not convey my meaning? :P
17:31:52  *** DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ
17:33:40  <andythenorth> so how do other people build ship depots on rivers?
17:33:47  <andythenorth> screenie?
17:34:01  <planetmaker> add a harbour basin from canal tiles
17:34:16  <peter1138> Hmm, TS 2014 is missing some pretty fundamental sounds
17:34:29  <peter1138> Like... wheels on the track sounds...
17:38:43  <andythenorth> hmm
17:38:49  <andythenorth> these IH wagons weigh 100t each
17:38:50  <andythenorth> oopsie
17:41:30  <LordAro>
17:42:19  *** Superuser [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:43:59  *** LeandroL [~leandro@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:46:49  *** rubenwardy [] has quit [Quit: You may notice this notice is not worth noticing]
17:49:14  *** wakou2 [] has joined #openttd
17:50:21  <andythenorth> hmm
17:50:33  <andythenorth> changing a wagon's weight changes it for already-built instances
17:50:36  <andythenorth> interesting
17:52:11  <andythenorth> frosch123: you did the 'save window size' feature?
17:52:49  *** Superuser [] has joined #openttd
17:56:06  *** LeandroL [~leandro@] has joined #openttd
18:00:38  *** retro|cz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:03:23  *** Tom_Soft [~id@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:13:25  <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, window size and sticky state
18:13:37  <andythenorth> it's really nice
18:13:43  <andythenorth> saves lives
18:15:21  <frosch123> i think it was based on suggestion forum discussion which annoyed me
18:17:04  <frosch123> people getting lost in saving window positions in save games and such, while default size is way easier
18:23:34  <andythenorth> default ftw
18:23:48  <andythenorth> removes a large set of tiny irritations
18:39:16  <andythenorth> hmm
18:39:38  <andythenorth> is it now recommended to use explicit orders for servicing?
18:40:22  <planetmaker> depends on what you want. But I'd recommend that as you better control where the train goes without network considerations
18:40:41  <planetmaker> otherwise you need to know the look-ahead length for finding a depot.
18:40:52  <andythenorth> how would I find that out?
18:40:53  <planetmaker> Or need to place depots *before* branches instead of after
18:41:09  <andythenorth> I used to have success placing a PBS signal 1 tile before depot
18:41:13  <andythenorth> but that no longer seems to work
18:41:20  <planetmaker> find out what? The look-ahead for depots is iirc around 20 tiles
18:41:25  <andythenorth> I have trains on 70 day servicing that haven't serviced for 2 years
18:41:31  <andythenorth> they drive straight past depots
18:41:44  <planetmaker> they only look for a depot occasionally
18:44:09  <andythenorth> I don't know how I'd play this game without being in this channel :)
18:44:20  <andythenorth> it's completely baffling without help
18:45:03  <planetmaker> :-)
18:45:22  <andythenorth> irc-assisted play :P
18:46:35  * andythenorth should be more generous to newly arrived players :(
18:46:52  <andythenorth> I have been playing since 1994 or so, and I'm confused
18:52:02  <andythenorth> oh
18:52:07  <andythenorth> yogscast live near me
18:52:08  <andythenorth> how odd
18:52:15  * andythenorth just discovered that
18:58:32  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
18:58:35  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
19:01:46  *** adf89 [] has joined #openttd
19:04:28  *** adf88 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:06:54  <andythenorth> this dock-with-an-entrance-lock isn't so bad
19:13:01  <andythenorth> hmm
19:13:22  <andythenorth> if I have two steel mills close to each other, and lots of iron and coal mines, is it cheating to deliver to both mills?
19:13:54  <planetmaker> how is that cheating?
19:13:56  *** retro|cz [] has joined #openttd
19:14:05  <planetmaker> it's more difficult to deliver to both
19:14:14  <andythenorth> I find delivering all to one harder
19:14:19  <andythenorth> more congested stations
19:14:25  <andythenorth> already I'm cheating by using boats
19:14:50  <andythenorth> oh
19:14:52  <andythenorth> GS idea
19:15:27  <andythenorth> for 3 types of industry, achieve a minimum production level at each
19:15:43  <andythenorth> think of it as inverse Silicon Valley
19:15:59  <andythenorth> frosch123: can I tempt you? o_O ^
19:16:18  <andythenorth> (for all instances of the type on the map)
19:18:07  <frosch123> what?
19:18:26  <frosch123> how do you achieve a minimum production level?
19:18:38  <frosch123> win at game start?
19:19:01  <frosch123> [19:02] <andythenorth> yogscast live near me <- what does that mean? yes, they live in britain :p
19:19:23  <frosch123> or did you just meet your neighbours? :p
19:19:50  <andythenorth> frosch123: kind of :)
19:19:58  <andythenorth> I didn't meet yogscast
19:20:02  <andythenorth> anyway - minimum = target
19:20:12  <andythenorth> i.e. achieve x output per month
19:20:39  <frosch123> so, maximum production overall while minimum production per single industry?
19:20:51  <frosch123> maximum distribution?
19:21:30  <andythenorth> could be
19:21:50  <andythenorth> I was thinking something simple like 'every steel mill on the map must produce at least 200t per month'
19:21:52  <andythenorth> or such
19:22:02  <andythenorth> there's some detail about industry closure and other nonsense
19:22:16  <frosch123> maximise the production of the industry with least production?
19:22:49  <frosch123> so, boost one industry, then magic bulldoze other instances? :p
19:23:52  <andythenorth> he he
19:24:05  <andythenorth> ok, so maybe there's an easy win condition
19:24:36  <andythenorth> at least n instances?
19:24:45  <andythenorth> it's basically SV, but distributed
19:24:52  <frosch123> so, sillicon valley, but without the town restriction?
19:24:59  <andythenorth> kind of yes
19:25:08  <andythenorth> easy way to think of it
19:25:10  <Wolf01> [17:51:31] <LordAro> <- I have a 1000TB PATA hard disk here, at least is how the bios recognizes it, but I can't write or read from it :(
19:25:28  * andythenorth biab
19:25:31  <andythenorth> baby washing time
19:25:39  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
19:25:41  <LordAro> Wolf01: :(
19:25:48  <LordAro> wait, 1GB PATA?
19:25:52  <Wolf01> yeah
19:25:53  <LordAro> no
19:26:06  <LordAro> 1PB PATA??
19:26:33  <Wolf01> yes that
19:26:43  <Wolf01> I don't recognize the exact model
19:26:55  <Wolf01> *remember
19:26:58  <LordAro> sounds like some sort of overflow error on attempting to read a dead hard drive :L
19:27:31  <Wolf01> for sure, it died some years ago with all my stuff in it
19:27:37  <LordAro> :(
19:27:42  *** DDR [] has joined #openttd
19:28:25  <Wolf01> but it was spectacular when I showed it to the technician
19:30:44  <frosch123> there used to be times where you could format your floppy drive to have a higher capacity
19:30:53  <frosch123> by reducing overhead data
19:35:15  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26140 trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt (2013-12-01 18:45:09 UTC)
19:35:16  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:35:17  <DorpsGek> turkish - 41 changes by wakeup
19:48:48  *** gelignite [] has joined #openttd
19:48:48  *** Super_Random [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:49:05  *** Super_Random [] has joined #openttd
20:05:31  *** Alberth [] has joined #openttd
20:05:34  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
20:06:28  *** roadt_ [~roadt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:12:22  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
20:13:03  <Alberth> o/
20:14:24  <andythenorth> o/
20:14:38  <Alberth> playing a new game?
20:14:42  <andythenorth> frosch123: are you +1 or -1 to a GS that is basically tied to FIRS (as an idea?)
20:14:46  <andythenorth> Alberth: yup
20:14:59  <andythenorth> I sulked a bit about one game, then started a new one
20:15:53  <frosch123> i don't think i am the typical firs player
20:16:27  <andythenorth> I suggest it only so that production amounts can be tied to a specific known newgrf
20:17:31  <Alberth> I think it's a valid strategy to target a specific newgrf, you can use knowledge about it to enhance the GS
20:17:52  <Alberth> Obviously, it's more limited in use though ;)
20:17:58  <andythenorth> [shrug]
20:18:05  <andythenorth> 100% of nothing or 50% of something :P
20:18:21  <frosch123> well, if it is about the balancing only
20:18:55  <andythenorth> it's about target production amounts at secondary industries
20:19:15  <andythenorth> a refinement would be excluding certain known industries with special behaviour
20:19:26  <andythenorth> but the basic idea might suck, so refinement can wait
20:20:02  <frosch123> well, you could give the gs some presets "suitable for firs arctic", "suitable for default toyland", ...
20:20:17  <andythenorth> that would be neat
20:20:31  * andythenorth considers compiling a GS using FIRS codebase :P
20:20:35  <andythenorth> so that industry IDs are known
20:20:57  <frosch123> gs have no access to the industry ids
20:21:06  <andythenorth> nvm :)
20:21:13  <frosch123> they use the global ids, newgrf have local ids
20:21:24  <frosch123> but you can detect input/output cargos
20:26:53  <andythenorth> useful
20:27:06  <andythenorth> hmm
20:27:18  <andythenorth> building docks on corner slopes - would need new sprites.... o_O
20:27:56  * andythenorth has all the little ideas that come from playing a game :P
20:27:56  <frosch123> Alberth: should we deploy the current eints state wrt. gs?
20:28:08  <andythenorth> my newgrfs are getting fixed much faster than usual today :P
20:28:37  <frosch123> andythenorth: as long as you do not fall for the V-style of fixing :p
20:28:48  <andythenorth> defined as...? :)
20:28:55  <Alberth> patch doesn't apply any more
20:29:01  <frosch123> "remove aircraft"
20:29:04  <frosch123> and such
20:29:11  <frosch123> "remove ..."
20:29:18  <andythenorth> I like 'remove'
20:29:42  <andythenorth> fixes bugs :)
20:29:50  <Alberth> I spend to day on codechanges to make the change of string commands eventually possible
20:30:06  <Alberth> so now I have to redo the gs patch queue
20:30:48  <Alberth> which shouldn't be very hard, but will take a few eveninks
20:32:24  <frosch123> oh, gs-awards actually uses {CHECKMARK} and {CROSS}:s
20:32:46  <frosch123> and even {RIGHT_ARROW} :s
20:33:21  <Alberth> :p
20:34:37  <Alberth> strgen needs to be fixed :p
20:34:44  <frosch123> looks like, from the gs on devzone, gs-awards has the most variety of string commands
20:49:49  <andythenorth> hmm
20:49:56  <andythenorth> autorefit is borked
20:50:24  <andythenorth> identical wagons in a consist
20:50:32  <andythenorth> 1 is refitting as ordered, the other is ignoring the order
20:50:54  *** waterfoul [] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian - ~]
21:00:42  <andythenorth> the way CHIPS tiles flicker between cargos is quite amusing :P
21:00:55  <andythenorth> could stations cascade waiting cargos in some sensible way to their tiles?
21:01:03  <andythenorth> in groups of 4 or such, from N tile?
21:01:14  <andythenorth> or dividing tiles between waiting cargos?
21:04:34  <frosch123> i thought eddi wanted to code that stations display cargo accoding to throughput, not waiting cargo
21:05:48  <frosch123> maybe the easiest way out is to include the cargo of waiting trains into the station display
21:06:01  <frosch123> so cargo only vanishes when the train leaves
21:06:57  <andythenorth> hmm
21:07:23  <andythenorth> I like the indication that there is lots of stuff waiting
21:07:33  <andythenorth> it's just funny when the thresholds cross :)
21:07:44  <andythenorth> so 600t of steel is surpassed by 601t of goods
21:07:47  <andythenorth> and entire station changes :)
21:07:54  <frosch123> well, you would still see when cargo is waiting
21:08:04  <frosch123> but you would not have the flickering when a train in waiting for full load
21:08:22  <frosch123> but, ok, with firs 100% cheat you have no waiting trains
21:08:31  <andythenorth> I don't use that 100% :)
21:08:33  <andythenorth> it's silly
21:08:49  <frosch123> it's the V method
21:08:57  <frosch123> remove everything :)
21:09:12  <frosch123> ships, aircraft, breakdowns, station rating :p
21:09:13  <andythenorth> actually...
21:10:15  <andythenorth>
21:10:42  <andythenorth> that's interesting
21:11:28  <andythenorth> do stations show the cargo with lowest ID or something?
21:11:37  <andythenorth> or latest delivered to station?
21:12:09  <andythenorth> yeah, so if any steel is waiting, that station shows steel
21:12:22  <frosch123>
21:12:32  <andythenorth> yeah, reading that now :)
21:12:47  <frosch123> ignore the "12" and the "4095" :p
21:13:25  <andythenorth> so it depends on labels in an action 3?
21:13:53  * andythenorth reads CHIPS code
21:19:51  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
21:27:46  *** tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
21:30:51  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:35:01  <andythenorth> oopsie
21:35:10  <andythenorth> 1.95m litres of alcohol waiting
21:36:39  <peter1138> Drink it.
21:45:31  *** Japa_ [~Japa@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:45:54  *** Japa_ [~Japa@] has joined #openttd
21:51:24  *** bdavenport [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:51:54  <andythenorth> hmm
21:52:13  <andythenorth> is there a horrible hack to offer constructing trams without catenary?
21:55:16  <andythenorth> also
21:55:21  <andythenorth> how do I teach cdist to re-route?
21:55:34  <andythenorth> it's sending 98% of cargo via one tram route
21:55:42  <andythenorth> with single 75t vehicle
21:55:48  <andythenorth> instead of via 4 x 300t train
21:56:00  <planetmaker> it will adopt to new routes. But the lead time might be larger than you expect
21:56:09  <planetmaker> Adoption to capacity in other links takes time
21:56:25  <andythenorth> it's been about 3 game years so far
21:56:27  *** skyem123 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:56:42  <planetmaker> should be long enough
21:56:53  <andythenorth> the trains are not using full load
21:56:55  <andythenorth> the tram is
21:57:00  <andythenorth> does that matter for cdist?
21:59:09  *** tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o]
22:01:12  <Alberth> old assigned cargo won't change route, I think
22:01:51  <Alberth> cdist looks at the load of the line, look at the colour of the connections at the link grapgh
22:02:49  <Alberth> good night
22:03:08  <andythenorth> night Alberth
22:03:09  <planetmaker> g'night, Alberth
22:03:41  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
22:07:40  *** adf89 [] has quit [Quit: adf89]
22:07:41  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
22:14:50  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
22:21:08  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
22:21:11  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
22:25:03  <frosch123> night
22:25:07  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
22:28:33  *** Pensacola [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:42:35  <andythenorth> cdist !love engineering supplies etc
22:51:34  *** Hazzard [] has joined #openttd
22:52:55  *** retro|cz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:00:02  *** Ristovski [~rafael@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:21:16  <Wolf01> 'night all
23:21:21  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:32:35  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
23:33:33  *** adf88 [] has joined #openttd
23:35:15  *** Alice3 [] has quit []
23:40:31  *** DabuYu [DabuYu@] has joined #openttd
23:40:49  *** gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
23:52:19  *** GriffinOneTwo [] has joined #openttd
23:57:25  *** TomyLobo [] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...]
23:58:19  *** snorre_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:59:49  *** adf88 [] has quit [Quit: adf88]

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk