Log for #openttd on 18th January 2014:
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01:04:48  <Wolf01> 'night all
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06:49:04  <andythenorth> o/
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08:03:31  <LordAro> mornings
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08:31:04  <andythenorth> hmm
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08:47:59  <andythenorth> this pixa stuff isn't crap
08:48:02  <andythenorth> it's just a bit mental
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08:59:17  <dihedral> morning
09:08:02  <andythenorth> if you saw a codebase with pipelines and modules, what would you think their relationship was?
09:09:45  <dihedral> dependencies :-P
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09:53:57  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
09:54:07  <Alberth> hi hi
10:02:07  <andythenorth> Alberth: does it sound like bad style to have a package called 'graphics_modules' :P
10:02:15  <andythenorth> it does strictly, tbh, contain modules
10:03:05  <Alberth> i'd probably call it "graphics" or so, but the name is not so bad imho
10:03:26  <andythenorth> it's kind of conflating modules
10:03:35  <andythenorth> I have a graphics pipeline, which is modular
10:03:56  <andythenorth> the modules happen to be implemented as python modules, which is a coincidence ;P
10:04:20  <andythenorth> I can't find a synonym for module
10:04:31  <Alberth> I have no problems with modules containing other modules, without giving meta-names, but I do a lot of recursive programming
10:05:45  <Alberth> you can also see it as a module providing you graphics. That is uses modules on its own is purely internal
10:05:56  <Alberth> s/is/it/
10:07:32  <Alberth> but if you prefer to see it as a collection of graphics-thingies, that's a valid viewpoint as well
10:08:27  <andythenorth> I dislike naming confusions :)
10:08:32  <andythenorth> but I am short on words
10:08:38  <andythenorth> so graphics_modules will do
10:10:02  <andythenorth> he
10:10:32  <andythenorth> I could call it 'arbitrarily_combinable_modular_graphics_processing_pipeline_components'
10:10:35  <andythenorth> :)
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10:12:19  <Alberth> just "components" ?
10:13:06  <Eddi|zuHause> just name them X, XX, ...
10:13:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i probably still have a disk with files like that :p
10:16:07  <andythenorth> I have employed people who name their variables 'a', 'b', 'c' etc
10:16:51  <andythenorth> because 'long variable names run slower'
10:18:47  <Eddi|zuHause> and if a black cat crosses your screen your program crashes?
10:21:48  <andythenorth> it was mostly flash actionscript, so quite plausibly yes
10:28:59  <Alberth> I  II  III  IV  V ... :)
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11:24:09  <andythenorth> HMM
11:24:30  <andythenorth> improved auto-road construction - show the direction of build?
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11:30:06  <Alberth> you can drive faster when you move in the same direction as it was built?  :)
11:30:37  <Alberth> afaik we cheat, road and tracks are always laid in the same direction, no matter where you start or end
11:31:06  <peter1138> ?
11:34:18  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> improved auto-road construction - show the direction of build? <-- someone posted sprites for roadbit highlighting on the forum, but nobody ever coded it
11:58:08  <andythenorth> ugh three levels of directory nesting
12:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause> only?
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13:12:16  <andythenorth> hmm
13:12:23  <andythenorth> maybe I've fork-bombed python :P
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13:14:57  <andythenorth> or maybe it just takes a long time to count to 999999999
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13:18:12  <andythenorth> hmm. For an IO task (writing spritesheets to disk), is there likely to be negligible benefit from using MultiProcessing library?
13:18:18  <andythenorth> or does that depend on my OS and crap
13:18:22  <andythenorth> ?
13:19:13  <andythenorth> I guess it can't do any harm :P
13:19:26  <andythenorth> unless it blocks in some horrible unanticipated way, but I doubt it's significant
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13:24:38  <Alberth> unless you write big data, you're mostly just filling disk cache which is kept in memory, so writing is quite fast
13:24:51  <Alberth> assuming you don't use a synchronized file system :p
13:28:09  <andythenorth> seems to work fine :P
13:32:02  <Pikka> what have you done
13:33:52  <andythenorth> I don't know :)
13:33:55  <andythenorth> what did I do :)
13:34:14  <andythenorth> Pikka: for shame, one thing I did was cheat at Euro Truck Simulator
13:34:34  <Pikka> how can you cheat at euro truck simulator?
13:35:14  <Pikka> and I don't know what you did, but "seems to work fine :P" sound like famous last words
13:36:43  <andythenorth> Pikka: like the colour? o_O
13:37:09  <andythenorth> I cheated money, I got bored
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13:37:39  <Pikka> I prefer yellow myself
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13:38:19  <Pikka> but the point of the game is to drive the truck... money is irrelevant D:
13:38:55  <andythenorth> child number 1 wanted a bigger truck ;)
13:39:12  <andythenorth> and we got a €48,000 fine on one delivery
13:39:19  <Pikka> harsh
13:39:27  <andythenorth> there were a few crashes
13:39:49  <andythenorth> I am hoping they do mac ETS 2 this year :P
13:39:52  <andythenorth> they promised it
13:40:01  <andythenorth> meanwhile, back to spriting :P
13:40:35  <Pikka> I realised just how many files my project is going to generate, so my task for the morning is making some kind of meaningful directory structure... fun.
13:42:06  <Pikka> spriting is fun, wot?
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13:43:36  <Pikka> good morning frosch123
13:44:37  <frosch123> hola
14:04:20  <planetmaker> hello
14:05:10  <Pikka> et tu, planetmaker
14:08:34  <andythenorth> Pikka: I like him
14:08:39  <andythenorth> also, you can do donuts in ETS
14:08:43  <andythenorth> it's not that fun though
14:09:12  <andythenorth> hrm
14:09:13  <andythenorth> # check for __main__ because fork bombs are bad
14:09:14  <andythenorth> if __name__ == '__main__':
14:09:25  <andythenorth> but that means my code doesn't work when called from another module
14:11:17  <scshunt> why would checking for __main__ stop forkbombs?
14:15:12  <andythenorth>
14:22:53  <Xaroth|Work> if you don't do that
14:22:57  <Xaroth|Work> and that file gets included by something
14:23:02  <Xaroth|Work> your code will be executed
14:23:15  <Xaroth|Work> multiprocessing tends to load files, even if they aren't the intended run-file
14:23:20  <Xaroth|Work> which can cause issues
14:28:26  <andythenorth> so what's the correct thing to do?
14:28:34  <andythenorth> I need to import this module into another module
14:29:05  <Xaroth|Work> use if __name__ == '__main__' for the entrypoint of your software
14:29:09  <Xaroth|Work> where you do like ./ run
14:29:13  <Xaroth|Work> needs that line
14:29:15  <Xaroth|Work> the rest doesn't
14:29:17  <andythenorth> ok
14:29:22  <Xaroth|Work> as long as they don't execute stuff by themselves
14:29:35  <andythenorth> so if other people come along and change stuff, and they miss the guard, that's their problem
14:30:02  <Xaroth|Work> the guard is only there to make sure that code doesn't run when you import it
14:30:14  <Xaroth|Work> they can always circumvent it by doing whatever is after the if themselves after they import
14:30:24  <Xaroth|Work> it's common practice that people call a main() function in that if
14:30:32  <Xaroth|Work> so it's still importable and runnable if that is wanted
14:30:38  <Xaroth|Work> it just doesn't do anything by itself
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14:33:15  <andythenorth> hmm
14:33:30  <andythenorth> so I call the module with the MP stuff with
14:33:33  <andythenorth> import render_graphics
14:33:39  <andythenorth> so I should wrap that in the guard?
14:33:52  <andythenorth> or I have to fuck around with a main() function in render_graphics?
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14:35:11  <Xaroth|Work> I would say a main() function
14:36:57  <andythenorth> urgh
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14:39:10  <andythenorth> so if I have 50% of the functionality wrapped in main(), how do I run the script directly?
14:39:22  <andythenorth> currently I used python src/
14:39:50  <andythenorth> which now fails to do 50% of what's needed
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14:41:05  <andythenorth> it's this again
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14:42:45  <Xaroth|Work> if you have the if __name__ == "__main__": thing
14:42:49  <Xaroth|Work> python path/to/
14:43:15  <Alberth> or make it executable with a #!/usr/bin/python    :)
14:43:39  <Xaroth|Work> or that
14:44:02  <andythenorth> it already has a hash bang
14:44:23  <andythenorth> I had to add if __name__ == '__main__': main()
14:44:36  <andythenorth> which seems like excessive beauracracy
14:47:09  <Alberth> just main() will do, if you never want to import the file
14:47:30  <andythenorth> I do want to import it :)
14:47:54  <andythenorth> if I just do main() then I think I just have Even More Code, with the same fork bomb problem :(
14:48:35  <Alberth> then you're stuck with excessiveness, or you make a new file:   from foo import main; main()
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14:49:12  <andythenorth> oic :)
14:49:16  <andythenorth> I think I'll do without that
14:49:36  <andythenorth> as I don't understand the fork bomb issue, I'll just live with the excess stuff
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14:53:58  <andythenorth> urgh
14:54:09  <andythenorth> hg merges are non-functional
14:54:13  <andythenorth> just don't do them
14:54:14  <andythenorth> avoid
14:54:19  <andythenorth> time for git?
14:54:29  <Alberth> it's worse, imo
14:54:36  <fjb> Moin
14:54:45  <Pikka> moin
14:54:46  <planetmaker> andythenorth, how are they 'non functional'?
14:55:12  <andythenorth> they are hopeless at resolving conflicts
14:55:31  <andythenorth> and the lack of stash makes it trivial to get into a conflict
14:55:50  <andythenorth> the process for marking a merge complete makes no sense to me
14:55:52  <planetmaker> s/lack of stash//
14:57:12  <andythenorth> maybe git has made me use version control non-defensively :(
14:57:47  <andythenorth> hg makes it harder to get into 'omg what have you done to the repo'
14:58:00  <andythenorth> but git workflow is much more productive imho
14:58:17  <planetmaker> uh... no
14:58:56  <planetmaker> andythenorth, you might want to use a different merge tool maybe?
14:59:10  <planetmaker> also there's histedit and rebase...
14:59:18  <planetmaker> and there is hg shelve
14:59:29  <planetmaker> to temporarily shelve your outstanding changes
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15:00:21  <andythenorth> hg shelve looks handy o_O
15:02:03  <Alberth> I just make a new clone for every shelve
15:02:16  <planetmaker> I simply commit and update to the previous rev
15:02:33  <planetmaker> (and maybe add a bookmark)
15:02:41  <planetmaker> before updating to the previous rev
15:02:57  <andythenorth> I upped to a previous rev to check something, and screwed myself :P
15:03:08  <planetmaker> don't do that with outstanding changes
15:03:09  <andythenorth> unsaved changes
15:03:23  <planetmaker> merging graphics usually is a big pita
15:03:28  <andythenorth> it's hard to remember the right thing to do when you work with 3 different vcs
15:03:48  <andythenorth> I could install git -> hg front end, but I've heard they suck :P
15:04:05  * Alberth confirms
15:04:06  <andythenorth> it's even worse with svn
15:04:17  <andythenorth> I try and totally avoid having to do any work on svn repos now
15:04:22  <planetmaker> hg -> git is also not exactly excellent
15:04:31  <andythenorth> "commit" is thoroughly likely to get me yelled at with svn
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15:04:38  <planetmaker> hgsubversion (or was it hgsvn?) is quite ok
15:04:42  <Alberth> I use svn -> hg  for making a local copy of the svn repo
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15:43:08  * andythenorth wonders when the overhead of starting python MP processes outweighs the benefits...
15:44:19  <Alberth> that's easy, when a single process is faster than a MP implementation
15:44:57  <Alberth> if you think in terms of programming effort, the balancing point is earlier
15:45:28  <andythenorth> I guess it's empirical then :P
15:46:17  <Alberth> it's not even constant at a single machine :)
15:46:35  <Alberth> $ git co --help
15:46:35  <Alberth> `git co' is aliased to `checkout'   <-- git is soooo helpful at times :)
15:47:15  <andythenorth> I am a convert to git
15:47:19  <andythenorth> it's obviously mad
15:47:24  <andythenorth> but it seems to work
15:47:40  <Alberth> depends on your definition of "work"
15:47:59  <Alberth> people also claim to be productive with a windows machine
15:48:07  <andythenorth> I've even met some
15:48:12  <Taede> hello
15:48:33  <Taede> does it count if i edit code on windows, but execute it in linux?
15:49:32  * Alberth wonders whether to start about productivity and editors
15:55:29  *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
15:55:31  <Flygon> Taede: It does
15:55:34  <Flygon> Afterall
15:55:49  <Flygon> I've worked with Mega Drive devs who dev on Win7 64-bit and Macs
15:55:57  <Flygon> To compile software for execution on the Mega Drive
15:56:16  <Flygon> Getting decent 68k compilers for Apple OS's is a huge pita though
15:58:10  <andythenorth> @calc 8/12
15:58:10  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.666666666667
15:58:17  <andythenorth> a bit faster with MP
15:59:04  <Pikka> there we go
15:59:06  <Pikka>
15:59:30  <andythenorth> nice :)
15:59:37  * andythenorth likes
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16:08:13  <andythenorth> ugh
16:08:18  <andythenorth> puzzling results
16:08:51  <andythenorth> if I run src/render_nml directly, templating takes 20s with MP, and 13s without
16:09:14  <andythenorth> if I run the makefile, which calls it via a chain of stuff, I get 8s instead of 12s
16:09:19  <andythenorth> with MP
16:09:23  <andythenorth> bizarre
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16:10:50  <Pikka> mm, puzzling results
16:11:20  <andythenorth> resulting puzzles
16:11:50  <planetmaker> Pikka, your new engines: can you make them look a bit more used?
16:12:25  <planetmaker> they look so clean :)
16:14:18  * andythenorth waves hands at anyone who knows how to python profile
16:14:24  <andythenorth> these results are odd
16:14:53  <Pikka> :o maybe, planetmaker. but given the size of the sprites you want them to be *reasonably* clean. noise will obscure the shapes.
16:17:25  <planetmaker> Pikka, I don't mean in a shape-obscuring way. Just more real-coloured (yes, I know, the bad r-word)
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16:26:01  <frosch123> i think except for the pink, yellow and white one they look already quite dirty
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16:26:40  <frosch123> dirt is only visible on bright colours
16:27:27  <planetmaker> oh, I also didn't see today's image
16:28:10  <planetmaker> nice :)
16:28:27  <Pikka> that bright spot on the corner of the roof is annoying me, I've removed it and am re-rendering, whee.
16:28:53  <Pikka> it wasn't as visible on the grey roof as it is on the black ones
16:36:02  <andythenorth> anybody care to school me in inter-process communication with python MP library?
16:36:10  <andythenorth> actually I could just write files to disk and join them :P
16:45:22  <Pikka> too complicated for me
16:45:26  <Pikka> much better. :D
16:47:12  <planetmaker> isn't the roof a bit dark, Pikka ?
16:47:26  <planetmaker> especially with some colours?
16:47:41  <Pikka> I don't think so? Roofs should be dark, shouldn't they?
16:48:30  <planetmaker> dunno. I thought they were rather metal-ish
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16:50:14  <Pikka> even metallish ones get dark when they're dirty. ;) but yeah.. the "some colours" have black roofs, and the others have metal ones
16:50:40  <Pikka> which are the same colour as, eg, the stripe on the side of the dark blue carriage, so if they look dark that'll be down to the lighting. :P
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16:52:37  <planetmaker> ah, ok, so that's intended :)
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17:25:45  <andythenorth> hrm
17:25:51  * andythenorth profiling hamfistedly
17:27:40  <andythenorth> hmm
17:27:58  <andythenorth> think I'm about to get schooling about mult-processing problems
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17:48:16  <andythenorth> herp
17:48:22  <andythenorth> lack of environment vars :(
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18:12:27  <Wolf01> hello
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18:24:16  <andythenorth> grr
18:24:43  <andythenorth> I can't get the template engine to see the fricking cache directory when I run a module directly
18:24:59  <andythenorth> but it will see it when the module is called from another module
18:25:14  <andythenorth> some os.environment thing that I don't understand :(
18:25:47  <Alberth> hi Wolf01
18:26:01  <Alberth> what did you want to have refactored andy?
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18:38:57  <andythenorth> Alberth: biab - bath time
18:39:06  <andythenorth> although this environment var stuff is bugging me :)
18:39:28  <Alberth> ok
18:39:56  <andythenorth> Alberth: do you have a checkout of IH?
18:40:26  <Alberth> nope :)
18:42:04  <Alberth> yes
18:45:19  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26264 trunk/src/lang/danish.txt (2014-01-18 18:45:12 UTC)
18:45:20  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:21  <DorpsGek> danish - 75 changes by Elyon
18:48:54  <andythenorth> Alberth: run src/ and watch the chameleon_cache dir fill...
18:49:05  <andythenorth> then clear the cache dir, and run src/
18:49:38  <andythenorth> for me, it doesn't produce any cache files
18:49:53  <andythenorth> the cache is an os.environment setting, which is set by
18:50:02  <andythenorth> I've tried setting it in every file, but to no avail
18:51:13  <Alberth> do you use python2 or python3?   i have 2 python-chameleon packages
18:51:35  <andythenorth> python 2
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19:17:12  <LordAro> evening all
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19:22:25  <Alberth> evenink
19:22:35  <andythenorth> I seem to have got bounced out :P
19:22:41  <Alberth> andythenorth: I have that too
19:22:58  <andythenorth> the same chameleon behaviour?
19:23:17  <Alberth> yes
19:25:38  <planetmaker> oddink :)
19:25:58  <Alberth> wouldn't chameleon read such a variable when importing chameleon?
19:26:56  <andythenorth> I would have thought so
19:27:06  <Alberth> src/ sets the os.environ['CHAMELEON_CACHE'] = chameleon_cache_path
19:27:15  <andythenorth> yes
19:27:44  <Alberth> src/ import chameleon without setting that env var
19:28:07  <andythenorth> but it has imported iron_horse
19:28:16  <andythenorth> as does
19:28:35  <andythenorth> hmm
19:28:41  <andythenorth> I have just made a test
19:28:42  <Alberth> it imports iron_horse later
19:30:07  <Alberth> line 15, after line 11
19:30:22  <andythenorth> I am making a test of that too :)
19:30:49  <andythenorth> yeah changing the import order solves it :)
19:30:51  <andythenorth> of course :P
19:31:37  <Alberth> interesting programming style, using import as subroutine call :)
19:31:42  <andythenorth> winner
19:31:54  <andythenorth> using MP saves 5 or 6 seconds
19:32:00  <Alberth> too bad you can only run each file once :)
19:32:03  <andythenorth> it will save more proportionally as the set grows
19:32:26  <andythenorth> Alberth: I could convert them all to have a main() :P
19:32:34  <andythenorth> kind of works though :P
19:32:53  <Alberth> yeah, it's an interesting technique :)
19:33:45  <andythenorth> kind of dangerous with multiprocessing I guess
19:36:17  <andythenorth> ho I actually save 7 or 8 seconds without a bazillion print statements running
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19:49:05  <andythenorth> planetmaker: today might be the day I need to add a 'build' dir or such
19:49:17  <andythenorth> I now have generated graphics, and intermediate nml files :P
19:49:24  <andythenorth> does that name make sense?
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19:52:08  <frosch123> call it "generated"
19:52:13  <frosch123> easier to understand
19:52:32  <andythenorth> ok
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19:57:25  <planetmaker> yup
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20:08:42  * andythenorth does that now
20:10:41  <andythenorth> I should move the generated lang in there
20:10:44  <andythenorth> and tell nml about it
20:12:15  <planetmaker> hm. you can define NML_FLAGS in Makefile.config and declare there a different lang dir
20:12:27  <planetmaker> Remember to also tell eints about different dir
20:12:37  <planetmaker> hm... that doesn't need a different dir as it doesn't change, yes?
20:14:50  <andythenorth> I could just leave it as is
20:15:07  <andythenorth> I would be happier if everything generated was in one location, but it could be a tidy mind problem
20:15:12  <andythenorth> no real-world issue
20:15:37  <planetmaker> suggestion: move the code thing first. And try that
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20:15:52  <planetmaker> if that works: you can tidy your mind and try the lang move :)
20:16:06  <planetmaker> tidy structures don't hurt
20:16:24  <planetmaker> and NML_FLAGS purpose lies in exactly this reason...
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20:18:03  <andythenorth> nml is done, doing graphics now
20:18:19  <planetmaker> :)
20:18:23  <andythenorth> I've left the final iron_horse.nml in root dir
20:18:26  <andythenorth> make sense?
20:18:46  <planetmaker> yes. That's makefile's default assumption
20:24:07  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I think for FIRS eints must already know about lang_src?
20:24:18  <andythenorth> not FIRS :P
20:24:22  <andythenorth> Iron Horse sorry
20:26:40  <planetmaker> might be, yes. In .devzone/translations you can define that
20:27:19  <frosch123> andythenorth:
20:27:28  <andythenorth> yup
20:27:51  <andythenorth> so I could sort that out and get rid of this ugly lang_src pattern
20:28:11  <andythenorth> graphics are done :)
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20:35:36  <andythenorth> hrm
20:35:42  <andythenorth> do I want to face down changing the lang :P
20:36:15  <andythenorth> presumably there's a makefile flag somewhere
20:37:25  <andythenorth> planetmaker: do NML_FLAGS need specified in Makefile.config ?
20:37:50  <planetmaker> no. But if you need something special, then you can re-define it
20:38:04  <planetmaker> By default it is defined as -c
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20:38:27  <planetmaker> (crop)
20:39:04  <andythenorth> so to change lang dir...
20:39:41  <andythenorth> need to set -l
20:39:57  <planetmaker> -c --lang-dir=PATH
20:40:14  <planetmaker> you should keep the -c. You'll overwrite it, it doesn't append
20:40:31  <andythenorth> let's try
20:44:59  <andythenorth> hmm
20:45:00  <andythenorth> works
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20:54:24  <andythenorth> planetmaker: that just leaves docs_src :)
20:54:32  <andythenorth> which I don't like :P
20:54:52  <andythenorth> see
20:55:12  <andythenorth> graphics_sources is valid I think
20:55:34  <planetmaker> what's wrong with docs_src?
20:55:55  <andythenorth> nothing much, except the result is generated into /docs
20:56:02  <andythenorth> so then confusion arises :)
20:56:08  <planetmaker> instead of generated/docs?
20:56:13  <andythenorth> shall I move it there?
20:56:21  <planetmaker> hm :)
20:56:24  <andythenorth> I think docs are properly separate to grf, so /docs_src is valid ish
20:56:30  <planetmaker> yes
20:56:34  <andythenorth> I don't know what bundles does to expose it
20:56:49  <andythenorth> e.g.
20:56:52  <andythenorth> probably something simple
20:57:06  <planetmaker> well, I've some rules there as to what to copy
20:57:13  <planetmaker> that can be adopted
20:57:19  <planetmaker> and/or more generalized
20:57:47  <planetmaker> it's currently from docs: html, license.txt, readme.txt, changelog.txt
20:58:26  <andythenorth> it's controlled in .devzone/build/files afaict
20:58:54  <andythenorth> not sure how we'd mangle the path though
20:59:15  <andythenorth> L13
20:59:20  <planetmaker> for f in `ls -d *.zip *.gz *.nml *.nfo *.md5 *.txt lang docs/*.txt docs *.ob?`; do cp -r $f build; done
20:59:30  <planetmaker> ^ that's the files which I copy to bundles
21:00:23  <planetmaker> I'm aware that I copy the txt in docs twice. That's intentional
21:00:37  <andythenorth> shall I move the docs into generated and we see what happens? o_O
21:01:07  <planetmaker> I know that they won't be published unless I change the rules for bundle server :)
21:01:20  <planetmaker> but I can add that
21:02:05  <planetmaker> generated/docs ?
21:02:31  <planetmaker> hg st
21:03:08  <Alberth> everybody is committed
21:06:18  <Pikka> or at least they should be
21:08:44  <andythenorth> oops
21:08:51  <andythenorth> the makefile is sulking about docs path being wrong
21:08:56  <andythenorth> maybe I should leave this one be
21:10:05  <andythenorth> iirc something blows up if I comment the docs lines in Makefile.config
21:13:05  <andythenorth> hmm 'graphics' could go back into 'src' where I think it belongs
21:14:20  <planetmaker> no shit, trying to build iron-horse completely rendered my system unresponsive to all kind of input including external ssh access :S
21:14:39  <andythenorth> :o
21:14:41  <andythenorth> fork bombed?
21:14:46  <planetmaker> seems so
21:14:58  <andythenorth> sorry :(
21:15:11  <andythenorth> it hasn't brought down devzone?
21:15:19  <planetmaker> no, my desktop
21:15:34  <andythenorth> did it come back?
21:15:46  <planetmaker> I hard reset after two minutes
21:15:51  <andythenorth> sorry :(
21:16:00  <andythenorth> that is umm...a problem
21:16:10  <andythenorth> it blocks CPU quite hard on my mine, for 10s or so
21:16:32  <andythenorth> planetmaker: it's not running windows?
21:16:50  <planetmaker> I'm used to allowing additional cores by using -jX. So make should use one core unless allowed differently
21:17:09  <planetmaker> no, linux
21:17:48  <planetmaker> they keyboard num led would still toggle :P
21:20:10  <andythenorth> I wonder why it does that :P
21:20:18  <andythenorth> it spawns 61 processes, not 1000s
21:20:30  <andythenorth> although I might have to go learn about pools
21:24:38  <planetmaker> devzone is not harmed as the VMs are CPU - limited and nothing is harmed when the build VM uses all of its CPU. So no worries there
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21:26:15  <andythenorth> I might have a new version soon if you dare :P
21:26:49  <andythenorth> hrm
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21:26:55  <andythenorth> it's marginally faster for some reason :P
21:27:00  <andythenorth> despite fewer processes
21:27:10  <andythenorth> maybe there's an overhead to having 61 processes running :P
21:27:32  <planetmaker> definitely. No point to run more processes than there are CPUs
21:27:46  <planetmaker> or not many more
21:27:56  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I've just pushed one that is limited to 16
21:28:09  <andythenorth> doesn't block my laptop now either
21:28:17  <andythenorth> risk it? o_O
21:28:34  <andythenorth> r533
21:29:41  <planetmaker> 534:fc9905f20ecc ?
21:30:07  <andythenorth> o_O
21:30:22  <andythenorth> same hash, my rev is 533
21:30:24  <andythenorth> odd
21:30:41  <planetmaker> not odd. I might have used amend somewhen or so
21:30:57  <planetmaker> numeric revs are local only
21:31:14  <andythenorth> k
21:31:27  <skyem123> Jenkins thinks it is 532
21:31:35  <planetmaker> see you in a minute, maybe :P
21:31:55  <planetmaker> behaves better
21:32:03  <planetmaker> MUCH better
21:32:11  <andythenorth> phew :)
21:32:38  <planetmaker> but... didn't build the grf :P
21:32:46  <andythenorth> details :P
21:33:22  <planetmaker> couldn't generate docs/license.txt
21:33:27  <planetmaker> thus failed
21:33:39  <planetmaker> let's purge and re-try
21:33:46  <andythenorth> did it generate a docs folder?
21:34:06  <planetmaker> seems to work after purge
21:34:27  <andythenorth> k
21:34:45  <andythenorth> I am going to move lang into src I think, and tell eints about it
21:34:49  <planetmaker> I'd say built in 5 seconds or so
21:35:01  <planetmaker> that's pretty good :)
21:35:23  <andythenorth> takes about 20 for me
21:35:27  <andythenorth> all in
21:36:09  <planetmaker> all in all it's 17.1s, yes
21:36:21  <andythenorth> not too bad
21:36:32  <andythenorth> not as bad as FIRS :)
21:36:35  <planetmaker> :)
21:36:54  <planetmaker> would probably be 2ms faster, if it didn't say 'blah' :)
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21:37:09  <andythenorth> ho ho
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21:47:27  <skyem123> The makefile doesn't know about the windows "py" command.
21:50:37  <andythenorth> herp
21:50:38  <planetmaker> <-- seems alright, andythenorth ?
21:50:43  <planetmaker> I didn't change a thing, though
21:50:56  <andythenorth> planetmaker: yeah, I didn't change docs yet :)
21:51:03  <planetmaker> ah, k
21:51:04  <andythenorth> it tends to break the makefile in boring ways iirc
21:51:14  <planetmaker> can be, yes
21:51:23  <andythenorth> it's not essential
21:51:25  <andythenorth> just tidiness
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22:01:32  <andythenorth> hmm
22:01:45  <andythenorth> handling failing code in multiprocessing is...harder
22:01:55  <andythenorth> the pool seems to eat errors
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22:14:24  <andythenorth> sovlde
22:17:36  <skyem123> uh oh... When i try to build it on windows, it goes in an infinite loop
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22:27:32  <andythenorth> skyem123: iron horse?
22:27:39  <skyem123> yup
22:27:51  <skyem123> A multi tasking one,
22:27:52  <andythenorth> how naughty of it
22:28:03  <andythenorth> there are known issues with multiprocessing on windows
22:28:12  <andythenorth> but I thought I'd done the correct thing to handle it :P
22:28:42  <skyem123> Can you add a disable multitasking option as a failsafe?
22:32:16  <andythenorth> skyem123: which rev / hash?
22:34:52  <skyem123> I'm on a6f658d0807115bec6a815d060528793ff07adbf
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22:35:26  <skyem123> In that one the screen output is mutch cleaner.
22:36:04  <andythenorth> pull the latest
22:36:34  <andythenorth> I was hopeful that I'd at least limited it to 16 processes, and also prevented the known windows issue
22:36:49  <andythenorth> changeset 7bedb75d28ce
22:38:33  <skyem123> same problem
22:42:58  <andythenorth> ugh
22:43:40  <andythenorth> wonder why it does it :)
22:43:56  <skyem123> I can give you the console output.
22:44:01  <andythenorth> might as well
22:44:12  <andythenorth> I need someone else to check my python I think
22:46:43  <skyem123>
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22:46:56  <skyem123> it didn't log everything in the console.
22:47:10  <skyem123> how do i redirect stderror?
22:48:46  <planetmaker> 2>file
22:49:23  <glx> or 2>&1 to redirect stderr to stdout
22:49:29  <skyem123> 41kb for a few seconds!
22:49:37  <andythenorth> ok that somewhat makes sense
22:49:41  <andythenorth> dunno what to do about it
22:50:24  <skyem123>
22:50:43  <skyem123> this happens a lot
22:50:50  <skyem123> it gets repeated
22:51:23  <skyem123> it seems to be trying to access the output nml file
22:52:25  <andythenorth> what's odd is the repeating of the [BUILD] stuff
22:52:35  <andythenorth> there's no cause for repeating that, it's called once
22:53:24  <skyem123> it does the same thing when i limit the processes to 1
22:53:54  <skyem123> except error about the file
22:54:19  <andythenorth> I think I understand that
22:54:51  <skyem123> so by limiting the processes to 1 it didn't have the file access error
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23:00:10  <andythenorth> skyem123: can you run python files?
23:00:17  <skyem123> yup
23:00:22  <andythenorth> if so, run src/
23:00:53  <andythenorth> should have the same issue
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23:05:04  <skyem123> Same issue!
23:05:20  <skyem123> and...
23:05:26  <skyem123> it suddenly stopped
23:06:00  <Taede> gnite all
23:06:09  <andythenorth> same issue is good news in this case
23:06:14  <skyem123> it's doing somthing similar but differant
23:06:20  <planetmaker> g'night, Taede
23:06:42  <skyem123> but the loop is still there
23:06:58  <andythenorth> skyem123: edit L 44 - reduce 16 to 1
23:07:07  <andythenorth> might still loop
23:08:10  <skyem123> it does an access is denied error using src/
23:08:22  <skyem123> then stops
23:08:31  <skyem123> using make it still loops
23:08:58  <andythenorth> it loops with 16 changed to 1?
23:09:37  <skyem123> with make, yes
23:09:48  <andythenorth> quaint
23:09:48  <skyem123> (using make command)
23:10:03  <skyem123> with /src/render_nml, no
23:11:39  <skyem123> I think it loops in two places.
23:11:53  <andythenorth> it will also loop in render_graphics
23:12:14  <skyem123> It seems to loop in build_iron_horse
23:12:26  <andythenorth> that is what puzzles me
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23:15:31  <andythenorth> I won't solve it tonight :(
23:15:33  <andythenorth> bed time
23:15:42  <skyem123> is it possible to remove the threading code?
23:16:25  <andythenorth> possible yes
23:16:31  <skyem123> easy?
23:16:50  <andythenorth> change 1 line, delete 3 others
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23:17:05  <andythenorth> instead of        pool.apply_async(render_consist_nml, args=( consist, ))
23:17:07  <skyem123> what ones
23:17:27  <andythenorth> use         render_consist_nml(consist)
23:17:51  <andythenorth> and then delete the other nearby lines beginning 'pool'
23:17:56  <skyem123> ok...
23:18:21  <andythenorth> it will still fail on render_graphics probably
23:18:26  <skyem123> it that loops...
23:18:26  <andythenorth> but test it...
23:19:03  <skyem123> What does the threading DO?
23:19:25  <andythenorth> renders graphics and code faster
23:20:14  <skyem123> how? does it use one theread per module?
23:20:33  <skyem123> with a limit of 16 threads at a time?
23:20:48  <andythenorth> I don't know
23:20:55  <andythenorth> the pool() stuff is pretty much magic
23:20:56  <skyem123> uh...
23:21:29  <andythenorth> has it worked?
23:21:42  <skyem123> it it getting permission errors
23:22:13  <skyem123> used by another process
23:23:10  <skyem123> is that the graphics erroring?
23:23:40  <andythenorth> possibly yes
23:24:23  <planetmaker> sounds like race condtions
23:24:32  <andythenorth> open src/
23:24:47  <skyem123> remove the pool code?
23:24:54  <andythenorth> yup
23:25:05  <andythenorth> L59-L63
23:25:07  <andythenorth> replace with
23:25:08  <andythenorth>         shutil.copy(os.path.join(graphics_input, variant.get_spritesheet_name(consist)), graphics_output_path)
23:26:26  <skyem123> you mean to code in:
23:26:32  <skyem123> for variant, consist in variants.iteritems():
23:26:52  <andythenorth> yes
23:27:46  <skyem123> still an error.
23:27:50  <skyem123> no loops
23:28:15  <skyem123> Traceback (most recent call last):
23:28:15  <skyem123>   File "src/", line 18, in <module>
23:28:15  <skyem123>     import render_nml
23:28:15  <skyem123>   File "i:\NewGRF Coding\Projects\Iron Horse\src\", line 24, in <mo
23:28:15  <skyem123> dule>
23:28:16  <skyem123>     os.mkdir(generated_nml_path)
23:28:18  <skyem123> WindowsError: [Error 5] Access is denied: '.\generated\nml'
23:28:20  <skyem123> make: *** [iron-horse-nml] Error 1
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23:28:47  <andythenorth> funky
23:29:10  <skyem123> is it the way you handle filenames?
23:29:15  <andythenorth> does Windows have permissions or something?
23:29:20  <skyem123> yup
23:29:27  <skyem123> NTFS
23:29:37  <skyem123> has them
23:30:23  <andythenorth> replace generated_nml_path = os.path.join(iron_horse.generated_files_path, 'nml')
23:30:47  <andythenorth> with generated_nml_path = os.path.join(currentdir, 'generated', 'nml')
23:31:02  <andythenorth> shouldn't make any bloody difference :)
23:31:04  <andythenorth> but we'll see
23:32:04  <skyem123> it seems to be working. for the nml at least
23:32:17  <skyem123> i THINK i know what is happening!
23:32:42  <andythenorth> if that change fixed it, then it's path issues
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23:34:18  <andythenorth> the path throws a permissions error
23:34:36  <andythenorth> and the way windows handles python multiprocessing means it gets thrown over and over again
23:34:37  <andythenorth> is my guess
23:34:42  <skyem123> generated_files_path = os.path.join(currentdir, global_constants.generated_files_dir)
23:36:35  <skyem123> what is global_constants.generated_files_dir?
23:39:52  <andythenorth> it's just a string
23:39:55  <andythenorth> 'generated'
23:40:35  <andythenorth> os.path() should be able to join previously joined paths, but maybe it fails
23:41:08  <skyem123> it seems to also have problems if the files already exist in the "generated" folder
23:41:21  <andythenorth> they're supposed to have been deleted
23:41:24  <andythenorth> there's code for that :)
23:41:29  <andythenorth> or run make clean
23:41:35  * andythenorth needs bed, but the path stuff is pretty easy to change if you want to try it
23:41:58  <skyem123> i think the code runs to fast
23:42:28  <andythenorth> night
23:42:35  <skyem123> Goodnight!
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