Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:09:19 *** LeandroL_ [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:10:23 *** LeandroL_ [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has joined #openttd 00:17:49 <Pikka> huh 00:18:06 <Pikka> why does grfcodec require your nfo to be in a directory called "sprites"? 00:20:25 <Pikka> hmm, that works. 00:22:24 <Sacro> zomg Pikka \o/ 00:22:32 <Pikka> hallo Sacro 00:22:48 <Sacro> How are you? 00:22:56 <Pikka> not too bad! 00:23:09 <Pikka> I may have just encoded my first 32bpp newgrf! 00:23:19 <Pikka> I have to see if it works. :) 00:24:20 <Sacro> Oooh 00:24:25 <Sacro> prettier UKRS 00:24:28 <Sacro> perhaps? 00:24:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you can specify a path 00:24:52 <Pikka> yes, I worked it out eddi :) 00:24:56 <Eddi|zuHause> "sprites" is the default path 00:25:19 <Pikka> you have to -e blah foo, not -e foo/blah 00:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it was coded by a complete moron :p 00:26:59 <Pikka> hmm, this newgrf is suspiciously small, I think it did not work :) 00:32:25 <Pikka> yep 00:32:32 <Pikka> grfcodec is not loading the 32bpp sprites 00:32:57 <Pikka> why is it so? 00:33:19 <Pikka> 13 ../sprites/8bpp.png 8bpp 0 0 16 16 0 0 normal 00:33:19 <Pikka> | ../sprites/trains/amf_chief/1_darkblue/3200005.png 32bpp 0 0 320 320 -160 160 zi4 00:35:06 <Eddi|zuHause> some magic switch that you want to build a container v2? 00:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause> -g2 00:35:34 <Pikka> oh, that magic switch 00:35:36 <Pikka> there are so many 00:36:00 <Pikka> thanks 00:36:09 <Aristide> Pikka: o/ 00:36:15 <Aristide> Eddi|zuHause: \o 00:36:17 <Aristide> Hi ! :) 00:36:27 <Pikka> egads, a train. 00:37:55 <Pikka> metric hp in the display, whose idea was this? 00:38:04 <Pikka> all it does is make the nice round numbers not nice and round. 00:38:44 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:38:57 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly convinced it's MB's fault :) 01:02:02 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:35:04 <Aristide> https://31.media.tumblr.com/81e4133bf7aef8935078a001c9f93688/tumblr_mgwzwqABeu1rsryzbo1_400.gif :') 02:03:57 *** DanMacK [~d83bf56e@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:05:17 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-166-172-252.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:11:28 *** Aristide [~quassel@tok69-5-82-235-150-75.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:08 <Supercheese> Opengfx Mars looks awesome 04:23:30 *** Djohaal_ [~Djohaal@200.146.82.124.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:33:16 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has joined #openttd 04:39:55 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:43:21 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has joined #openttd 04:43:21 *** xT2 [~ST2@bl20-229-153.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:33 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 04:45:20 *** ST2 [~ST2@188.250.230.68] has joined #openttd 04:49:58 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:50:12 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has joined #openttd 04:55:51 *** kamnet [~oftc-webi@74-129-188-199.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #openttd 04:56:59 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:03:11 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has joined #openttd 05:09:28 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:34:23 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has joined #openttd 05:36:03 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:40 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has joined #openttd 05:40:29 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:41:19 *** kamnet [~oftc-webi@74-129-188-199.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:54:55 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has joined #openttd 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6729C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5D2A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:01:33 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:27:00 *** Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:45:21 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has joined #openttd 06:46:58 *** Pecio [~fgh@aemz25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 06:52:01 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:05:32 *** Andreas [~Tyrion@c118116.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:08:12 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 07:59:37 <dihedral> good morning 08:00:19 <V453000> hy 08:02:42 <Xaroth|Work> o/ 08:03:54 <planetmaker> moin 08:13:36 *** Andreas [~Tyrion@c118116.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:33:18 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-24-179.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:36:00 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:50:18 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 08:58:46 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:01:54 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has joined #openttd 09:05:14 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has joined #openttd 09:07:55 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@bl20-3-201.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 09:08:34 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:10:03 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10:27 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has joined #openttd 09:10:33 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:13:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D5E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:13:04 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:15:18 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has joined #openttd 09:22:04 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:24:12 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has joined #openttd 09:30:36 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:24:13 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5D2A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:25:31 <peter1138> urgh 10:25:36 <peter1138> remember my password list? 10:25:47 <__ln__> nope 10:25:48 <Xaroth|Work> what did you do -now- ? 10:26:05 <peter1138> heh 10:26:19 <peter1138> some ludicrous password policy: password must be picked from this list 10:26:33 <peter1138> last digit of the password is sequential o_O 10:27:02 <peter1138> so much for secure password policies 10:27:21 <peter1138> A-Z0-9 :S 10:36:47 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has joined #openttd 10:38:22 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-166-172-252.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:39:06 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@bl20-3-201.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:43:34 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:47:13 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 10:48:54 *** Andreas [~Tyrion@c118116.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 11:05:31 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5C13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:13:42 *** Aristide [~quassel@tok69-5-82-235-150-75.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 11:34:19 <LordAro> http://xkcd.com/1319/ 11:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that does not really match my experience 11:51:30 <LordAro> perhaps not the ongoing development bit, but the other parts match mine :) 11:55:48 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you just haven't learned how to do it properly :) 12:00:36 <LordAro> :p 12:00:51 <LordAro> that is quite possible 12:02:37 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:08:36 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50-32-43-164.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:26:10 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:26:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 12:26:37 *** Wing_ [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:30:28 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:31:08 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:39 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has joined #openttd 12:31:52 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 12:31:59 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-246-162.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:32:24 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50-32-34-70.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 13:10:29 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:19:37 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:19:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 13:20:52 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-166-172-252.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:27:44 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:35:15 *** Pecio [~fgh@aemz25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:35 *** Pecio [~fgh@aemz25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 13:55:03 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:55:04 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:57 *** Pecio [~fgh@aemz25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd [] 14:33:32 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.250] has joined #openttd 14:40:13 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:40:24 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:42:41 <fjb> Moin. 14:42:57 <planetmaker> moin 14:46:32 *** Kucki [~Kucki@aftr-37-24-155-205.unity-media.net] has joined #openttd 14:51:13 <fjb> Everybody frozen? 14:51:20 <Kucki> jep 14:53:40 <fjb> It's quite quiet here today. 14:54:49 <Kucki> hm, first time beein here 14:59:21 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Quit: adf88] 15:07:57 *** Andreas [~Tyrion@c118116.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:08:22 *** Kucki [~Kucki@aftr-37-24-155-205.unity-media.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:39:05 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 15:48:21 *** fjb is now known as Guest4332 15:48:23 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:55:16 *** Guest4332 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:18:12 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-166-172-252.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:11:04 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:32:27 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-166-172-252.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:41:48 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.101.250] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:44:24 *** Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 17:48:01 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.101.250] has joined #openttd 17:56:20 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:56:23 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:00:56 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 18:07:09 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:09:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B8DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:24:30 <Belugas> hello 18:39:00 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01057f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:42:36 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host58-55-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:43:09 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50-32-8-90.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 18:43:10 <Wolf01> hello o/ 18:45:04 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50-32-34-70.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:45:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26269 /trunk/src/lang (danish.txt norwegian_nynorsk.txt) (2014-01-20 18:45:11 UTC) 18:45:21 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:22 <DorpsGek> danish - 10 changes by manframe 18:45:23 <DorpsGek> norwegian_nynorsk - 24 changes by 2rB 18:45:49 <frosch123> hi Wolf01 18:47:20 <Xaroth|Work> o/ 18:49:39 <fjb> Moin Belugas 18:49:44 <fjb> Moin Wolf01 18:49:56 <fjb> Quak frosch123 18:50:03 <fjb> Moin Xaroth|Work 18:52:20 <Xaroth|Work> o/ fjb 18:57:09 *** Aristide [~quassel@tok69-5-82-235-150-75.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:33 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3C54.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:07:35 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 19:07:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D5E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:30 *** skyem123 [~skyem123@cpc1-walt4-0-0-cust432.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:28:29 *** Kucki [~Kucki@aftr-37-24-155-205.unity-media.net] has joined #openttd 19:31:15 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:31:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:34:12 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-24-179.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 19:37:41 *** montalvo [~montalvo@ip68-108-148-173.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #openttd 19:38:20 <fjb> When starting a new project, wich version control system would be preferable? Mercurail or Git or something else? 19:40:00 <Xaroth|Work> I personally prefer git 19:40:08 <planetmaker> I personally prefer mercurial 19:40:17 <Xaroth|Work> then again, I run a gitlab system for my own projects, and use github for all public projects 19:40:21 <Xaroth|Work> so I'm quite.. biased :P 19:40:55 <planetmaker> then again, I run rhodecode system for my own projects and use it for all public projects. So I'm quite biased :P 19:40:59 <fjb> I don't mind being biased, the question is why you prefer one over the other. 19:41:00 <Xaroth|Work> :) 19:41:26 <Xaroth|Work> I use gitlab because it's the 'private' version of github; the github client works with any git repository, so that makes it easy to use either one 19:41:44 <Xaroth|Work> gitlab also has a CI system for all my unit test needs 19:42:19 <andythenorth> if you are using devzone for an openttd project, use mercurial, it's well supported 19:42:37 <andythenorth> if you are working elsewhere, and it's not an existing hg environment, use git 19:42:50 <Xaroth|Work> redmine works with git just fine as well 19:42:53 <andythenorth> especially if you want to go to github or whatever 19:43:09 <planetmaker> bitbucket works nicely and natively with mercurial. 19:43:24 <planetmaker> I prefer mercurial as I don't have to dig into the internals of it to get things done 19:43:37 <Xaroth|Work> I have the same with git :P 19:43:40 <fjb> It would be a new project, independend from OpenTTD. 19:44:00 <planetmaker> fjb, do you have experience with mercurial or git? Then choose the one you're familiar with 19:44:28 <Xaroth|Work> and what do you expect your target audience will be 19:44:29 <planetmaker> If not... mercurial has the IMHO slightly saner interface 19:44:36 <Xaroth|Work> wait what? :P 19:44:44 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:47 <Xaroth|Work> interface and sanity thereof are highly personal preference 19:44:50 <fjb> I have no experience with either of them. 19:44:57 <planetmaker> with svn? 19:46:14 <fjb> I'm using Bazaar-NG right now. But that switched more or less over to maintanace mode. 19:46:19 <Xaroth|Work> :| 19:46:29 <Xaroth|Work> I was dreading you'd mention that monstrosity 19:46:52 <andythenorth> bzr :) 19:47:00 <andythenorth> FIRS started in bzr 19:47:07 <planetmaker> yeah 19:47:09 <fjb> It worked well. 19:47:18 <Xaroth|Work> it's so slow :| 19:50:24 <fjb> Not really slow anymore. That was some years ago. But that is not the problem. How is platform indepence regardind line endings, or things like file renams? 19:50:59 <planetmaker> hg is based on python. Whereever that runs, hg runs. binaries for all systems readily available 19:51:09 <planetmaker> git is compiled for all, too 19:53:54 <planetmaker> if you've existing bzr repos, it's easy to convert them to hg 19:54:03 <fjb> I know. But how are renames of files or directoriies handled, or splitting part of the source tree into a library? 19:54:23 <planetmaker> hg mv a b 19:55:14 <planetmaker> there's the subrepository extension - most suitable to put a library in a separate repo which is included by that means 19:55:16 <fjb> So I have to move everithing from within hg, not by other tools? 19:55:52 <Rubidium> fjb: RMS has chosen git over hg as replacement for bzr; maybe his reasoning could be used in your case as well? http://lwn.net/Articles/579363/ 19:55:54 <planetmaker> how would *any* scm know that it's not a new file if you don't tell it that the file moved? 19:55:55 <fjb> The subrepository thing sound interesting. Is there something like that for git? 19:56:28 <Rubidium> planetmaker: any sscm would know ;) 19:56:31 <fjb> Rubidium: Thank you. I will read it. 19:58:00 * Rubidium kinda favours hg as DSCM at the moment as it seems easier, though that's probably because I'm still quite in the SVN mindset 20:00:20 <planetmaker> I disagree with the assessment that "mercurial doesn't look healthy"... https://code.facebook.com/posts/218678814984400/scaling-mercurial-at-facebook/ 20:02:41 <andythenorth> mercurial is fine, git is not for everybody 20:02:44 <andythenorth> but git has won 20:02:50 <andythenorth> doesn't mean hg has lost 20:03:03 <fjb> bzr lost. 20:03:06 <planetmaker> pretty much, yeah ^^ 20:08:21 <Eddi|zuHause> if you move a file by means other than hg itself, "hg addremove" will try to match a deletion with a creation and record it as move 20:08:44 <planetmaker> hm :) 20:09:53 <fjb> Nice. 20:10:33 <andythenorth> I should learn that 20:10:45 <andythenorth> I always forget and hg nags me with '!' 20:11:37 <planetmaker> addremove adds everything not tracked. I find that usually more hassle than gain 20:11:58 <planetmaker> (and removes everything tracked but not present any longer) 20:12:30 <planetmaker> well. everything not tracked and not ignored 20:13:27 <Eddi|zuHause> well that's kinda the point :) 20:13:55 <andythenorth> I wish I could articulate why I have come to prefer git 20:13:58 <andythenorth> but I can't : 20:14:00 <andythenorth> :P 20:14:24 <andythenorth> git is frankly weird, and seems dangerously explosive if you don't know what you're doing 20:15:19 *** George [~George@185.43.94.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:15:26 <Xaroth|Work> fjb: git doesn't track file paths, if you move a file and commit, it'll detect you've moved it 20:16:58 <fjb> Xaroth|Work: Thank you. 20:17:27 <Xaroth|Work> and like hg, there are some do's and don'ts with git, but the same can be said about svn tbh 20:17:58 <Xaroth|Work> it's made with the linux kernel in mind, they have some pretty weird demands for a VCS system 20:18:02 <planetmaker> every system has it's things it works well with and others which it doesn't 20:18:08 <Xaroth|Work> yep 20:18:40 *** George [~George@185.43.94.91] has joined #openttd 20:18:43 <andythenorth> with git, much more so than hg, I have found the following essential: 20:18:54 <Xaroth|Work> both use compression and delta storage, so that's quite equal 20:19:09 <andythenorth> (1) never ever ever just type in advice from a stack overflow article, or someone's blog. Go read the Red Bean book first 20:19:17 <Xaroth|Work> wait what? 20:19:20 <andythenorth> (2) never ever ever ever ever try to do complex rebases 20:19:40 <Xaroth|Work> i've only once read a page or three on the red bean book :| 20:19:40 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 20:20:08 <andythenorth> Xaroth|Work: do you read the git help or such instead? 20:20:31 <andythenorth> my point being, there is a lot of advice that is not just inaccurate, but dangerous, and gets you yelled at by other people cleaning your mess 20:20:32 <fjb> I'm no friend of a rebase at all. You only lose track of your mistakes that way. 20:20:47 <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: pretty much, but I also don't favour rebases 20:21:25 <Xaroth|Work> (then agian, the github client does it for me when i really need to) 20:21:49 <planetmaker> hard to get around some form of rebase if you develop a patch queue for a project 20:22:14 <planetmaker> or if on your own project you have different braches with different features. But there you can easier use merges 20:22:30 <planetmaker> and rebasing for patch queues can be done, too, by means of merge when done 20:22:38 <Xaroth|Work> with git you can easily merge across forks anyhow 20:22:49 <Xaroth|Work> patch queues in git usually come in the form of pull requests 20:22:50 <planetmaker> with hg as well 20:23:00 <planetmaker> with any dvcs they do 20:23:08 <planetmaker> patch queues is svn style :) 20:23:17 <Xaroth|Work> yep 20:23:40 <Xaroth|Work> and nothing sucks more than patch queues that don't apply easily :P 20:24:27 <planetmaker> yeah :) 20:24:29 <Xaroth|Work> but tbqfh, there's not -that- much different between hg and git; both have similar approaches to a lot of things.. the main difference is just -how- they make the users do it 20:24:55 <fjb> Usually I'm working on each feature in its own branch and mege it together when a feature is ready. 20:25:05 <planetmaker> works with either 20:25:16 <Xaroth|Work> fjb: that'll work, np 20:26:09 <fjb> And is there something like that subproject thing that planetmaker mentioned in git? It could be very useful. 20:26:16 <planetmaker> I'll never get over git forgetting revs though after some time which are not a tag 20:26:34 <Xaroth|Work> wait what? 20:26:45 <Xaroth|Work> @fjb: there is, but it's not widely used 20:27:15 <fjb> Git is forgetting revisions? 20:27:21 <Xaroth|Work> never seen that happen 20:27:38 <Xaroth|Work> heck, git revisions are the main source of it's security :| 20:27:50 <planetmaker> Xaroth, create a branch with a name. Update to another rev, commit something and give it the same name 20:28:01 <planetmaker> then without reflog there's no means to get back to your previous branch 20:28:11 <planetmaker> and it will be garbage collected after some (decent) time 20:28:25 <Xaroth|Work> as in, create the same branch twice? 20:28:37 <Xaroth|Work> or what, exactly? 20:28:39 <planetmaker> moving the branch tag, yes 20:29:25 <planetmaker> dangling commits will eventually be gone 20:29:25 <Xaroth|Work> I don't get what steps you did exactly, but the second I try to push a tag or branch that's already known in the system, git will start screaming bloody murder 20:29:42 <planetmaker> I'm not talking about push or anything 20:30:20 <planetmaker> a commit w/o any ref to it 20:30:35 <planetmaker> *ref pointing to it 20:31:00 <planetmaker> I wish I find that video again where it's explained... git 101 or so 20:31:05 <Xaroth|Work> that should only happen if you do a hard reset 20:31:21 <Xaroth|Work> and you shouldn't be doing those unless you know what you're doing 20:31:59 <Xaroth|Work> and you can easily retrieve those, until a gc is executed 20:32:09 <Xaroth|Work> git fsck --lost-found will locate dangling commits 20:32:14 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 20:32:39 <Xaroth|Work> at which point you can merge that with your current head 20:32:44 <Xaroth|Work> and get your changes back 20:32:57 <Xaroth|Work> (it'll even do the standard conflict resolution if needed) 20:33:14 <planetmaker> well, you can get easily obviously into a state Jenkins repos got a few weeks ago ;) 20:33:44 <Xaroth|Work> that's because jenkins, as many other CI systems, do hard resets when they shouldn't 20:34:26 <planetmaker> that was not the CI itself. But a commit to github... 20:34:33 <planetmaker> by a person 20:34:50 <Xaroth|Work> o_O 20:35:04 <Xaroth|Work> I'd have to see what happened then to see what went wrong 20:35:27 <planetmaker> http://www.reddit.com/comments/1qefox 20:35:41 <Xaroth|Work> oh -THAT- 20:35:54 <Xaroth|Work> yes, that was a giant fail from both github and jenkin's side 20:35:58 <Xaroth|Work> github for allowing jenkins to push 20:35:59 <planetmaker> (yes, different than what I mentioned before) 20:36:06 <Xaroth|Work> and jenkins for being idiots to push forced :\ 20:36:10 <planetmaker> Xaroth, jenkins didn't push... 20:36:22 <Xaroth|Work> no, one of their devs did 20:36:25 <planetmaker> yeah 20:36:50 <Xaroth|Work> so yeah, if you give somebody admin rights to your system, and he does a rm -rf / , things will go tits up 20:37:19 <planetmaker> a bit different. It's only commit rights 20:37:33 <planetmaker> commit rights to remove history 20:37:53 <planetmaker> by remote command 20:38:24 *** ropey [~ropey@173.181.120.155] has joined #openttd 20:38:30 *** ropey [~ropey@173.181.120.155] has left #openttd [] 20:38:32 <Xaroth|Work> it's a bit more complicated than just commit rights 20:39:19 <Xaroth|Work> the jenkins-ci plugin has certain access, that people grant to their repositories.. of those access, they have the ability to do some minor modification of things in order to do their jenkins thing 20:39:31 <Xaroth|Work> what they didn't know, is that they had access to push --force 20:39:51 <Xaroth|Work> which forces the overwriting of reflogs 20:40:01 <Xaroth|Work> so you can force a repository to a completely different state 20:40:09 <Xaroth|Work> even when the sanity checks tell you not to do that 20:40:25 <Xaroth|Work> (i.e. when something has made it into the commit tree that you want to be wiped out of history) 20:40:32 <Xaroth|Work> (or when you want to change the name of an author) 20:40:44 <Xaroth|Work> git doesn't like that, normally, because you shouldn't be doing that 20:40:59 <Xaroth|Work> BUT, git allows one to tell git to 'sudo make me a sandwich' 20:41:11 <Xaroth|Work> by means of the --force arg 20:41:30 <Xaroth|Work> now what happened, is that the jenkins dev accidentally triggered a forced push on 150+ repositories 20:41:40 <Xaroth|Work> and realised too late, that they actually had access to do that 20:41:51 <Xaroth|Work> at which point, of those repositories, many were set back in time 20:42:30 <Xaroth|Work> now the actual commits weren't 'gone', but all commits made to after the point in time where jenkins pushed to, were dangling 20:42:39 <Xaroth|Work> so they had to figure out which ref ID that was, to restore it 20:43:14 <Xaroth|Work> to summarize, derp from jenkins (dev), and derp from github for allowing said jenkins derp. 20:43:39 <Xaroth|Work> (and every was restored, to my knowledge) 20:45:23 <fjb> I think that should not bother me that much. I know that I should know what I'm doing when I'm forcing stuff. 20:47:04 <Xaroth|Work> well, if any, you can trust in the fact that most screwups can be fixed 20:47:06 <Xaroth|Work> (if you know how) 20:48:00 <Xaroth|Work> each commit ref is also a checksum, so if you ever get data corruption, git can detect that (and with a LOT of effort (seriously, just get a backup or something..), you can track it down to which file in which commit got corrupted, and restore that) 20:48:30 <Xaroth|Work> and I believe hg has something similar-ish to that as well 20:48:34 <Xaroth|Work> safety first 20:49:42 <planetmaker> with hg there is no way at all to remove anything from a remote repo 20:50:01 <planetmaker> you cannot rewrite history via push with hg 20:51:03 <Xaroth|Work> yes you can 20:51:05 <Xaroth|Work> hg convert :) 20:51:20 <planetmaker> if you force push with hg, you simply add new heads (unnamed branches) 20:51:28 <planetmaker> you cannot convert a remote repo 20:53:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i always do "hg pull && hg rebase" when push tells me it would create another head 20:53:29 <planetmaker> exactly 20:54:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that rewrites the local history, so i don't have spurious merge commits 20:54:11 <planetmaker> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ffBJ4sVUb4 <-- this is what I meant initially, at 1:25:30 and the next minute about dangling commits and forgetting them, 20:54:25 <planetmaker> which only can be accessed via reflog 20:54:33 <planetmaker> hg heads are nicer there 20:54:53 <planetmaker> (rubi once dug out that video - quite useful one) 20:56:19 <planetmaker> 1:27:56 actually: it takes like two weeks to throw away the detached commit 20:56:20 <Xaroth|Work> it even tells you what is going to happen and how to fix it o-O 20:56:23 <planetmaker> yes 20:56:28 <planetmaker> it does 20:56:53 <planetmaker> but given my frequency to work on different projects, two weeks could easily pass before I return somewhere. It would be gone 20:57:08 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:57:12 <Xaroth|Work> that's like having a "Warning, Slippery when wet" sign next to a "Warning, wet, ground is slippery" sign 20:57:18 <planetmaker> with hg I just commit and update. No action required 20:57:24 <Xaroth|Work> if you fall, you should have read the signs :p 20:57:29 <planetmaker> nothing wet and slippery in these situations with hg :) 20:57:43 <planetmaker> just normal workflow, easily seen with hg heads anytime later 20:57:49 <Xaroth|Work> that's because hg is trying to think for you :) 20:58:00 <Xaroth|Work> as I said before, git is made for kernel devs initially 20:58:09 <Xaroth|Work> if they do 'sudo make me a sandwich', they expect a sandwich 20:58:42 <Xaroth|Work> hg just strips out any notion of sudo, and checks itself whether or not people have access to make, or let alone a sandwich 21:17:11 <fjb> Now I have many stuff to read and think about. Thank you. 21:17:48 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.101.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:17:56 <Xaroth|Work> np :) 21:18:40 <andythenorth> @seen alberth 21:18:40 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: alberth was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 1 hour, 4 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Alberth> hi hi 21:19:23 <planetmaker> welcome. Also look at http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/BeginnersGuides :) 21:21:59 *** skyem123 [~skyem123@cpc1-walt4-0-0-cust432.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:50 * fjb is reading beginners guides of Mercurial and Git. 21:27:06 <fjb> And I need to find out how both are integrated into Eclipse and the like. Yes, I'm using warm water to shower. My monitor is not big enough for the open Vim and shell windows I would need otherwise. 21:28:40 <Xaroth|Work> from what I know from the dev team, there is a quite elaborate git plugin in eclipse 21:29:06 <Xaroth|Work> though some prefer the github client or tortoisegit (context menus under windows) over it 21:30:21 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:30:24 <andythenorth> I found that using a graphical git client was unpleasant 21:30:26 <andythenorth> it was very magical 21:30:36 <andythenorth> I had no idea what was actually being done 21:30:48 <Xaroth|Work> that's a matter of taste, tbqfh 21:30:53 <andythenorth> yeah 21:31:01 <planetmaker> the only time I prefer some graphical feedback is when I need an overview over how branches go 21:31:13 <planetmaker> what belongs to where 21:31:18 <planetmaker> but definitely taste 21:31:40 <andythenorth> I like to know (a bit) how stuff works 21:31:56 <Xaroth|Work> I like the simplicity the github client has, no fuss, just click on what you want and it does it 21:32:09 <andythenorth> I am -1 on clicking 'commit all changes' then watch progress box :) 21:32:14 <Xaroth|Work> until it doesn't get what you want, at which point there's a separate git shell for it 21:32:17 <fjb> I just need Eclipse for getting the coding done. But a plugin for a vcs would be nice so they do not interfere with each other. 21:32:35 * andythenorth used eclipse once, for a bit 21:32:43 <Xaroth|Work> fjb: there should be plugins for git, and I would find it odd if hg didn't have one either 21:33:18 <fjb> Both have a plugin. The question is how useful they are. 21:33:39 * planetmaker has not much experience with eclipse. Didn't find my way around there 21:34:05 <andythenorth> I am happier being very unproductive in a text editor 21:34:23 <planetmaker> :D 21:34:52 <andythenorth> although I did recently turn on 'show unbalanced braces' 21:35:06 <andythenorth> that's quite advanced :P 21:35:27 <andythenorth> and occasionally I use 'de-educate quotes' instead of doing it with find and replace 21:36:16 <andythenorth> mostly I find that the slow thing is the thinking, not the editor 21:38:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that video is fun... "do not rebase" ... "i show you how to rebase now" :p 21:39:02 <planetmaker> yeah :) 21:39:28 <planetmaker> well, it's a quite good video, IMHO 21:40:00 <Xaroth|Work> it's the same as sex ed.. they tell you not to do it, but they at least prepare you for the moment when you will 21:40:24 <planetmaker> they tell you not to do it? strange places 21:40:27 <MNIM> Xaroth|Work: well, at least in civilized countries. 21:40:38 <MNIM> planetmaker: not in civilized countries! 21:46:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B8DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:43 <Terkhen> good night 21:55:34 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@cpc13-cmbg17-2-0-cust570.5-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 21:56:00 <Xaroth|Work> nn 22:02:09 *** NTG [~NTG@a83-163-238-229.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 22:03:32 *** NTG [~NTG@a83-163-238-229.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:45 *** NTG [~NTG@a83-163-238-229.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 22:03:49 *** NTG [~NTG@a83-163-238-229.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:14 *** NTG [~NTG@a83-163-238-229.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 22:04:40 *** NTG [~NTG@a83-163-238-229.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:41 *** NTG [~NTG@a83-163-238-229.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 22:14:08 * frosch123 throws ENoSense 22:14:18 <frosch123> do squirrel fnuctions need a "return" ? 22:14:21 <NTG> Is this the openTTD subreddit channel? 22:14:30 <frosch123> no 22:14:36 <frosch123> that is #/r/openttd 22:14:37 <frosch123> or so 22:15:16 <NTG> Thanks. I will try that 22:16:22 <NTG> Ah, that does it. 22:16:35 <NTG> Thanks 22:16:54 <frosch123> i learned from that channel that "/" is allowed in channel names :p 22:17:35 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3C54.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 22:18:11 <NTG> That is why I could not find it. I though those characters weren't allowed. 22:18:32 <andythenorth> bed for me 22:18:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 22:18:47 *** NTG [~NTG@a83-163-238-229.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:34:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26270 trunk/src/script/api/script_town.cpp (2014-01-20 22:34:22 UTC) 22:34:28 <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish: If ScriptTown::FoundTown fails to generate a new random town name, don't bother sending a command, but fail immediately. 22:38:42 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 22:43:36 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01057f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 23:04:49 *** Sacro [~ben@000127ee.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:15:14 *** ntx [~ntx@a88-115-29-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:57 *** ntx [~ntx@a88-115-29-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 23:20:30 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.186.27.48.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC - The only client that takes care of your wife while sancho not come. (www.adiirc.com)] 23:34:26 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@2001:828:405:30:83:96:177:42] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:35:28 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:39:01 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@200.146.82.124.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 23:39:13 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@2001:828:405:30:83:96:177:42] has joined #openttd 23:39:56 <Wolf01> 'night all 23:40:00 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:43:01 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:44:38 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@cpc13-cmbg17-2-0-cust570.5-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:51:24 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:55:33 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:58:48 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]