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00:26:29 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:35:34 *** Randominty [~Randomint@124.168.211.251] has joined #openttd 00:43:23 *** mek42 [~chatzilla@cpe-74-79-52-81.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:54:15 *** mek42 [~chatzilla@cpe-74-79-52-81.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:03:01 *** mek42 [~chatzilla@cpe-74-79-52-81.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:15:15 *** mek42 [~chatzilla@cpe-74-79-52-81.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:40:34 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.166.36] has quit [Quit: ~ AdiIRC Astro - www.adiirc.com ~] 01:43:36 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 02:15:21 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-24-179.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:26:12 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 02:43:31 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 02:44:35 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.14.183.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:20 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:16:12 *** mek42 [~chatzilla@cpe-74-79-52-81.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:28:52 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:29:16 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 03:44:37 *** Morgan_Freeman [~not_avail@99-194-190-173.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:51:13 *** Andreas [~Tyrion@s5375406a.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:53:24 *** Morgan_Freeman [~not_avail@99-194-190-173.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #openttd 04:11:55 *** Morgan_Freeman [~not_avail@99-194-190-173.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:26:21 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:37:44 <Pikka> planetmaker: did you implement custom tiles for railway junctions, or did I dream that? 04:52:43 *** Nothing4You [N4Y@w.tf-w.tf] has joined #openttd 05:21:14 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.110.198] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:26:45 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.110.198] has joined #openttd 05:28:14 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.110.198] has quit [] 05:29:02 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.110.198] has joined #openttd 05:30:07 *** Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67A36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC673AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:04:16 <dihedral> good morning 06:30:41 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 06:57:12 *** Pecio [~fgh@drb160.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 07:00:12 *** namad8 [~aaaaa@pool-173-75-27-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 07:02:14 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@pool-173-75-27-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:20:00 <planetmaker> moin 07:21:11 <planetmaker> Pikka, what do you mean with 'custom tiles'? I guess the answer is 'no', as nothing changed there really. Junctions still are composed by the underlay and the 6 possible overlay sprites 07:21:26 <Pikka> moin 07:22:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: try getting michi_cc to work on it :) 07:22:34 <Pikka> :P 07:23:50 <Pikka> okay, when I get to tracks, I will. and I'll make the sprites first. :) 07:30:29 <peter1138> i did a patch for it 07:33:13 <peter1138> heh, also a patch for 32 rail types 07:33:27 <Pikka> oh, it was you, peter :D 07:43:43 <Japa> I wonder how much performance loss there would be by adding support for checking surrounding tiles with terrain sprites 07:47:09 <peter1138> it's from r25057 though 07:47:19 <peter1138> Japa, try it 07:48:01 <Japa> Would need 9 bytes per tile to store the surrounding terrain data 07:48:19 <Japa> peter1138, I intend to, as soon as I get all the required stuff for compiling downloaded 07:49:05 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/0001-Add-flag-and-railtype-sprite-type-to-draw-pre-combined-ground-sprites..patch 07:49:17 <peter1138> ^ never tested ;p 07:51:18 <Japa> http://www.gamedev.net/page/resources/_/technical/game-programming/tilemap-based-game-techniques-handling-terrai-r934 07:51:22 <Japa> Something like this. 08:00:31 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 08:05:32 <planetmaker> Japa, you don't need to 'store' the surrounding tile data'. They're all there, on the map 08:05:40 <Japa> Yeah 08:05:41 <planetmaker> It only needs the usual action2 stuff 08:06:16 <Japa> it's just a question of doing it when rendering or not 08:07:37 <planetmaker> I'd got for tile type, for terrain type and maybe height. i.e. canals var. 80 and 81, maybe also 83 08:08:19 <Japa> brb, restarting windows 08:08:36 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.110.198] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:40 <Eddi|zuHause> this is probably very inconsistent in openttd, as there are multiple different methods used 08:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. shore tiles and snow transition 08:09:01 <planetmaker> hm? 08:09:14 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 08:09:21 <Eddi|zuHause> those actually store their state in the map 08:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause> while houses etc. (can) use the adjacent tiles directly 08:10:39 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. the snow method has the problem that it doesn't work for rails or houses 08:14:20 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.110.198] has joined #openttd 08:18:53 <Japa> planetmaker, anyway, since I have really not at all looked much at the source code, I kinda need a bit to familiarize myself with where everything is 08:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Japa: it's all very complicated to map this method onto openttd, because you can't assume that you know all possible tiles. the NewGRFs may add more houses, railtypes, stations etc. or they can change the appearance of water, snow, ... 08:29:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the current method has some problematic restrictions, like you can't have snowy shores or snow-desert transitions 08:33:32 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 08:36:33 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the snow method can be externalized, by simply looking at the snowline. That probably would be a good step 08:36:53 <planetmaker> And later would also allow to retain fields, fences etc under snow 08:37:17 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: problem with snowline-based checks is that they change instantly, instead of gradually 08:38:27 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes I know that restriction. It's not impossible to retain, though. E.g. It could be changed gradually on a random pattern base or so 08:38:35 <planetmaker> having tile number as input 08:39:11 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: how would that help? 08:39:28 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you'd still have to store whether it uses the old or the new state 08:39:28 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, how is it done differently now? 08:40:03 <planetmaker> when snowline changes, the snowy state changes during tile loop 08:40:06 <Eddi|zuHause> current state is (for free tiles) => snowline changes => during tileloop the snow counter is changed 08:40:26 <Eddi|zuHause> for rail tiles, it only stores "no snow" or "snow" 08:40:57 <Eddi|zuHause> so during the tileloop, it will instantly change between none or full snow 08:41:04 <planetmaker> it's not like the current way snowyness changes is sacrosanct. It's not. Important is that it somewhat gradually recesses 08:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: so you need a pattern that is not too repetetive, and that is "monotonous" when it changes, and it doesn't change many pieces at the same time? 08:42:22 <planetmaker> the current pattern is exactly repetitive 08:42:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but if touching the code, might solve that while at it :) 08:43:12 <planetmaker> but that means there's not really anything to loose, if snowline is globalized 08:43:45 <planetmaker> and you win a bit on map array 08:44:43 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.110.198] has joined #openttd 08:45:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so you need a new array that has (number of height steps)x(number of stage changes (currently 16-ish)) entries, and some kind of pseudorandom access which of the entries of the stage the tile accesses 08:47:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A71A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 08:47:07 <planetmaker> err, no? 08:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and some way to gradually change the stage between two changes of snowline height 08:48:03 <Eddi|zuHause> well you could make some round-robin-style storage that only focuses on a window around the snowline +-2 08:48:16 <planetmaker> you just need a function with input tile# which returns something(tile#) ? snowline_old : snowline_new 08:48:48 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: a table serves perfectly well as a function 08:49:11 <planetmaker> well, could 08:49:33 <planetmaker> stage changes is 16? 08:49:36 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and with this table it's easy to ensure that the changes are "small" and "monotonous" 08:49:53 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.110.198] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:49:56 <planetmaker> that adds another unknown into it 08:49:56 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: could be 256 08:50:07 <planetmaker> which currently is drivern by snowline height 08:50:19 <planetmaker> So small an monotonous should be governed there 08:50:33 <planetmaker> or you have two things stearing the same thing 08:50:37 <Eddi|zuHause> well let's assume 256 08:50:53 <Eddi|zuHause> then every tick, one of the entries could be reduced by 1 08:51:04 <Eddi|zuHause> (or increased, depending on which way the snowline changed) 08:51:23 <planetmaker> err... 08:51:34 <planetmaker> you don't want 256 snowyness states 08:51:39 <Eddi|zuHause> no 08:51:48 * LordAro mornings 08:51:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you probably misunderstand 08:52:06 <planetmaker> moin LordAro 08:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> "256 stages" means "every tick 1 out of 256 tiles changes snowyness" 08:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause> which is what the tileloop currently does 08:54:53 <planetmaker> anyway, the whole point is: there's no need to keep the snowyness bit on the map. On the contrary 09:06:26 *** Andreas [~Tyrion@s5375406a.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 09:14:39 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.166.36] has joined #openttd 09:17:20 <LSky> morning 09:27:20 *** Aristide [~quassel@ALyon-156-1-157-240.w90-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:33:38 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.110.198] has joined #openttd 09:40:04 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.110.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:41:20 <Japa> Eddi|zuHause, what I'm trying to do doesn't care about railtypes or houses 09:41:27 <Japa> just whatever's on clear ground 09:41:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Japa: the rails ARE on the clear ground (in the base set) 09:42:26 <Eddi|zuHause> (yes, the game is weird like that) 09:43:11 <planetmaker> yeah, the game is very weired and limited in that respect 09:43:31 <Japa> Yes, I know, but weather there's rails on it or not doesn't effect what I'm doing, which is making transitions between the various values of the ClearGround enum 09:44:49 <Japa> enum ClearGround {CLEAR_GRASS = 0,CLEAR_ROUGH = 1,CLEAR_ROCKS = 2,CLEAR_FIELDS = 3,CLEAR_SNOW = 4,CLEAR_DESERT = 5,}; 09:44:55 <Japa> This stuff 09:45:07 <Japa> which is hardcoded, rather than being in the newgrf 09:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> but that won't work already with the snow transition and the desert transition 09:45:48 <Eddi|zuHause> which is not part of this enum 09:46:34 <Eddi|zuHause> also: shores 09:46:48 <Japa> Shores are already taken care of, aren't they? 09:46:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and just because it's hardcoded now doesn't mean it will stay that way 09:47:08 <Japa> true 09:47:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Japa: only grass shores, not snow shores or desert shores 09:47:23 <Japa> Right 09:48:47 <Pikka> huzzah 09:48:49 <Pikka> http://i.imgur.com/xWHaX7d.png 09:48:53 <Pikka> I have invented the cow 09:49:16 <Japa> Pikka, do you want cow reference images? 09:49:37 <Pikka> there's a joke here, I fear 09:50:16 <Pikka> it'll look like a cow when it's textured and 8 pixels long, don't worry :D 09:50:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A71A.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:51:51 <Japa> Eddi|zuHause, that is true. Anyway, even if stuff is not hardcoded, all you'd need is to have each terrain type have a border priority, for what transitions go over what 10:00:03 <planetmaker> Japa, fields are not clear ground 10:00:13 <planetmaker> iirc 10:00:24 <Japa> They also can live with not having transitions 10:00:32 <peter1138> border priority 10:00:35 <Japa> since they would be expected not to be 10:00:42 <peter1138> so simple ;p 10:02:21 <planetmaker> Japa, I guess shores are a bit different as the transition there is on the tile itself from water to land 10:02:43 <planetmaker> though... peculiarities suck :P 10:02:50 <Japa> yup 10:08:34 *** wubic [~eviltoast@c-62-220-183-22.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:20:07 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 10:40:19 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:43:35 <Aristide> Hiii ! :) 10:43:51 <dihedral> i think the map should simply be vector graphics :-D 10:47:19 <V453000> 4D!!! 11:04:58 <Aristide> ^^ 11:05:46 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:13:18 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:13:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 11:19:10 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-1-59.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:29:50 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:29:50 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:34:10 <peter1138> directx11 11:36:03 <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: and store it using xml? 11:37:00 <peter1138> 3d openttd, do it 11:40:18 <V453000> or else 11:41:53 <__ln__> oculus vr 11:43:16 <__ln__> is there any trick to use the current graphics so that it gets an illusion of depth? 11:44:24 *** Randominty [~Randomint@124.168.211.251] has quit [] 11:46:41 <__ln__> i suppose drawing the windows at a different depth would be slightly easier, leaving the terrain flat. 11:54:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A71A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:59:34 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:07:43 <dihedral> pm: this guys speaks english just like you do :-D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zDlA4T_TeY&feature=c4-overview&list=UUVZlxkKqlvVqzRJXhAGq42Q 12:09:06 *** wubic [~eviltoast@c-62-220-183-22.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #openttd 12:13:35 <Japa> __ln__, it's theoretically possible 12:14:22 <Aristide> Oyeah ! 12:14:25 <Aristide> Lot of monney *o* 12:14:35 <Aristide> So, Its time to parse bus line list from Simutrans save ? :x 12:14:41 <Aristide> openttd sorry x) 12:17:10 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:17:10 <LordAro> heathen. 12:17:17 <LordAro> :p 12:17:35 <planetmaker> more wood! 12:53:18 <dihedral> that is an odd request :-P 12:59:05 <Aristide> More monney ! 12:59:20 <Aristide> Can you add a feature for extract money from game to IRL 12:59:22 <Aristide> ? :D 12:59:48 <Xaroth|Work> if only 12:59:57 <Aristide> :3 13:00:16 <Aristide> I try to create a « only bus » network :x 13:00:48 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:04:22 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 13:09:55 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 13:11:00 *** Aristide [~quassel@ALyon-156-1-157-240.w90-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:17:36 <andythenorth> bleargh layering more on more http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=69897 13:18:01 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-100-41.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 13:18:13 <MNIM> dihedral: well, how else are you going to burn a heathen? 13:18:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what's your problem with that? 13:19:34 <andythenorth> genuine bloat 13:19:48 <andythenorth> the more crap we add, the harder it is to do anything interesting 13:19:55 <peter1138> rewrite 13:19:56 <peter1138> all of it 13:20:20 <peter1138> but start with something crazy like a graphics engine 13:20:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the biggest problem with this problem is that it's a zombieproblem. it keeps getting fixed in some patchpack and then reappears in the next patchpack because the fix was not backpoorted so the original patch is still broken 13:20:28 <andythenorth> also I disagree with all daylength stuff, but there's no useful conversation there :P 13:21:09 <andythenorth> peter1138: or just leave it be :) Maybe fix some ui bugs. Maybe it's kind of 'done' for the big stuff 13:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, just forget all the things people want... daylength, heightlevels, climates, destinations, ... 13:22:28 <andythenorth> I actually think that's the most interesting idea 13:22:38 <andythenorth> declare OpenTTD closed for big new features 13:22:41 <andythenorth> keep polishing 13:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i should have put a bigger irony marker 13:22:52 <andythenorth> see if some other group of people pop up with a reimplementation 13:23:27 <andythenorth> it's all kind of moot anyway :) 13:23:33 <peter1138> OpenOpenTTD? 13:23:52 <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: weren't you fighting with multiprocessing for your sprites? 13:24:02 <andythenorth> Xaroth|Work: yes I was 13:24:04 <Xaroth|Work> https://medium.com/building-things-on-the-internet/40e9b2b36148 13:24:13 <Xaroth|Work> has a creative sollution 13:24:19 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:24:35 <Xaroth|Work> allll the way to the bottom 13:28:45 <andythenorth> ho ho 13:29:06 <Xaroth|Work> ho ho as in , interesting, or useless? 13:29:07 <andythenorth> so that's almost exactly my case, the code in the last few examples is so close to my actual code... 13:29:42 <andythenorth> I'll have to try map 13:29:52 <Xaroth|Work> might be worth it 13:30:32 <andythenorth> the actual problem I have is that something in the error handling machinery crashes hard 13:30:54 <andythenorth> so errors cause the python process to lock up in a way I have never seen before :) 13:31:01 <Xaroth|Work> heh 13:31:04 <Japa> Bah, the ottd source is more complex than I feared. It will take quite a bit to get a feel for the drawing pipeline 13:31:17 <andythenorth> it's making me get good at debugging code with no error output :P 13:31:25 <andythenorth> source inspection 13:31:54 <Xaroth|Work> I hate those bugs that don't give pointers where something is wrong 13:32:53 <andythenorth> otoh, I wote about 30 flash games before I knew what a debugger was 13:33:10 <andythenorth> so I learnt to debug using judiciously inserted prints 13:34:43 * LordAro still finds that easier (in some cases) 13:35:48 * andythenorth tries to figure out why pool.map() is better than pool.async() for this image processing case 13:36:17 <andythenorth> async probably isn't necessary, because this can block and wait 13:36:20 <andythenorth> but still... 13:37:40 <planetmaker> Japa, the drawing pipeline is indeed quite interesting :D 13:38:30 <planetmaker> Japa, I have a still not properly working patch queue for grids as transparency option. Maybe that gives you some hints... 13:38:44 <Japa> hehehe 13:38:55 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/grid/ or a bit newer in https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/pm-openttd (check for bookmark 'grid') 13:48:48 <andythenorth> Xaroth|Work: by switching to map() the job completes in about 6s instead of 14s :D 13:48:59 <andythenorth> dunno if the error handling is any better by avoiding async 13:49:11 <andythenorth> I need to try varying the number of workers in the pool as well 13:49:57 *** Morgan_Freeman [~not_avail@99-194-190-173.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #openttd 13:52:10 <Andreas> grids as transparency option sounds nice 13:52:36 <Andreas> they are usefull sometimes, but also look ugly in some situations 13:52:40 <planetmaker> it's a pain with half tile foundations 13:58:14 <andythenorth> ha the pool.map() method seems to handle errors better than apply_async() 13:59:19 *** Pecio [~fgh@drb160.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd [] 14:10:01 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.110.198] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:11:08 <MNIM> Hmmmh 14:11:41 <MNIM> planetmaker: is there a summary somewhere of FIRS economies? (1.3.0) 14:12:25 <planetmaker> did you try the documentation? 14:12:56 <planetmaker> honestly the main author would know better than me 14:13:04 *** Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has joined #openttd 14:14:06 <planetmaker> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/ 14:14:11 <MNIM> oh, right. thought you were said author. 14:17:54 <andythenorth> he he 14:18:04 <andythenorth> I don't mind if the world thinks that :) 14:18:14 <andythenorth> means I don't have to do support o_O 14:18:26 <andythenorth> MNIM: in case you didn't find it http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/1.3.0/docs/html/economies.html 14:18:44 <MNIM> oh right, it was you 14:18:56 <MNIM> andythenorth: thanks, find it now. 14:19:05 <MNIM> planetmaker: thanks, too ^.^; 14:19:06 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the FIRS in-game content link goes to devzone, not docs 14:19:11 <andythenorth> I should change that, right? 14:19:15 <andythenorth> docs are the most useful thing? 14:19:29 <MNIM> seems like a good idea 14:20:32 <planetmaker> dunno. Might be, yes. Do the docs link to devzone? 14:23:23 <andythenorth> yes 14:23:45 <andythenorth> one reason I didn't link them was...I can't remember :P 14:23:54 <andythenorth> maybe bundles server was being rebuilt or such 14:23:59 <andythenorth> there was some reason anyway 14:24:10 <andythenorth> oh, maybe it was linking them to the correct version 14:24:51 <MNIM> planetmaker: might want to add an extra link to the docs in the FIRS forum thread, as well 14:25:11 <MNIM> I see now that it's in your sig as well, but that's a bit late. :P 14:26:28 <andythenorth> you might annoy him :) 14:26:39 <andythenorth> you should probably direct those requests at me :) 14:26:51 <planetmaker> well, with bundles server you need to know the path, andythenorth 14:26:56 <planetmaker> like the release version. Or whatever is the nightlies 14:27:04 <MNIM> dear &*E*&$ 14:27:08 <MNIM> I keep confusing you two 14:27:13 <MNIM> I have no idea why. 14:27:14 <planetmaker> or you just link to the general firs dir 14:27:20 <MNIM> it must be too early in the morning >.< 14:28:25 <planetmaker> https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/misc/files/b1d561d60dbe934f3e304854fafc3b5c3d879d88/compiler/getdays2000 <-- would give you the numeric part of the dirname for nightly builds / push builds 14:28:40 <andythenorth> MNIM: I added a docs link to top FIRS release thread 14:28:51 *** luaduck [~luaduck@0001c465.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:28:59 <planetmaker> strange, I never confused myself with andy :P 14:29:16 <andythenorth> ditto :) 14:29:51 *** luaduck_zzz [~luaduck@0001c465.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:30:00 <andythenorth> I'm just going to link to latest 14:30:04 <andythenorth> people should update :P 14:30:15 <planetmaker> that's fair enough 14:30:32 <planetmaker> but releases / nightlies differ there, still 14:30:55 <andythenorth> meh, I've already done it apparently 14:31:01 <andythenorth> I must have done it just around 1.3.0 14:31:06 <planetmaker> he :) 14:35:30 *** UukGoblin [~jaa@yatima.uukgoblin.net] has joined #openttd 14:35:36 <UukGoblin> hello 14:35:54 <UukGoblin> I can't get the music under control 14:36:01 <UukGoblin> I'm using pulseaudio with a bluetooth speaker 14:36:21 <UukGoblin> and when I start OpenTTD it plays fine - both sounds and music goes out of that bluetooth speaker 14:36:43 <UukGoblin> however after the first iteration of music finishes, it starts playing it out the built-in soundcard :-O 14:37:27 <UukGoblin> initially, I have timidity as an app in pavucontrol and I can control which soundcard it goes out of 14:37:52 <andythenorth> oopsie 14:37:55 <UukGoblin> but after the first loop of music, timidity vanishes and it seems that midi playback is outside of pavucontrol's control :-) 14:37:58 * andythenorth crashed python again 14:39:39 <planetmaker> UukGoblin, what sound and music driver does openttd report? ./openttd --help gives info on available drivers) 14:40:17 <UukGoblin> planetmaker, music is 'extmidi' and 'null'; sound is 'sdl' and 'null' 14:40:35 <UukGoblin> using a debian package, version 1.3.3-1+b1 14:41:39 <planetmaker> hm 14:42:21 <planetmaker> and what OS is that exactly? Debian wheezy? 14:42:37 * andythenorth wishes nml was amenable to multiprocessing :P 14:42:41 <UukGoblin> it's sid, actually... 14:42:55 <UukGoblin> it started as wheezy though, I think 14:43:01 <planetmaker> right. With sid I also have issues with sound output. Totally unrelated to OpenTTD 14:43:28 <UukGoblin> ah, ok :-/ 14:43:45 <UukGoblin> know of any workarounds, perhaps an env variable to force SDL to use pulseaudio? 14:43:46 <planetmaker> on wheezy that all works fine 14:43:59 <planetmaker> sorry, I didn't find a workaround 14:44:04 <UukGoblin> k, thanks 14:45:04 * andythenorth contemplates writing one grf per item, then decompiling, concetenating, and recompiling 14:45:07 <planetmaker> but I believe something outside OpenTTD must be broken there in the sound mixer / pulse audio or so 14:45:12 <UukGoblin> yeah 14:46:00 <planetmaker> andythenorth, care to teach NML some multi-processing rather? :) 14:46:18 <andythenorth> I would be quite lost tbh :) 14:46:20 <planetmaker> it's not monolithic code ;) 14:46:42 <planetmaker> you're not afraid to hack at everything else :P 14:46:43 <andythenorth> afaik, there is one big scan to find action 2 IDs that we can't avoid 14:47:27 <andythenorth> I would almost consider putting some of the work back on the author 14:47:50 <andythenorth> if we could scope as 'global' or 'local' we could bound all the action 2 IDs to the current item 14:48:02 <planetmaker> I don't think so. It goes through the action list and assignes numeric IDs to the items as it goes 14:48:12 <UukGoblin> so extmidi is just using pmidi, right? 14:48:19 <andythenorth> the tal (chameleon) spec has explicit globals, otherwise vars are bounded to current scope 14:48:58 <andythenorth> anyway, trying to fix it is fruitless without some profiling data :D 14:49:03 <planetmaker> as such NML can run into 'out of action2 IDs' as it processes things 14:50:10 <planetmaker> global and local definition could be forced / indicated by a 'global' keyword or so 14:50:40 <andythenorth> I am far too bad a programmer to know if that is a good route 14:50:50 <andythenorth> and it relies a lot on authors doing the right thing with knowledge 14:50:59 <andythenorth> which isn't good with a copy-paste code culture :D 14:52:38 <andythenorth> we need a profiling geek first? o_O 14:53:54 <UukGoblin> planetmaker, stopped system-wide timidity with /etc/init.d/timidity stop, then started timidity as the `goblin` user (the same user that runs the game and the pulseaudio session) 14:53:58 <UukGoblin> seems to have helped 14:54:21 <planetmaker> interesting 14:54:47 <UukGoblin> I think maybe the system-wide timidity, running as the `timidity` user, didn't have access to my user pulseaudio session 14:55:10 <UukGoblin> I don't know why it worked for the first loop of music though ;-) 14:57:23 <UukGoblin> hmm 14:57:58 <UukGoblin> no, changing the track from the jukebox didn't trigger the soundcard switch... now that it finished on its own, it switched to the wrong card again, so my fix didn't really work :-( 14:58:50 <UukGoblin> timidity is still running as my user, and no other timidity instance is running... I wonder what actually plays the midi now :-O 14:59:06 <V453000> you nerds should go play toyland, that would solve all of your issues 14:59:09 <UukGoblin> it keeps playing even after I killed it 15:00:11 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50-32-24-106.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 15:01:01 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:01:22 <UukGoblin> hm, I have a process named 'extmidi' though... I wonder where the binary is :-) 15:01:36 *** LSky [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:13 <planetmaker> which extmidi :) 15:02:49 <UukGoblin> the /proc/PID/exe was symlinking to `timidity`, although in `ps axwu` it appeared as `extimidi` ;-) 15:03:30 *** LSky [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:03:52 <UukGoblin> right, if I use `timidity somefile.mid`, it goes out the built-in soundcard, so I guess I need to configure timidity 15:04:09 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50-32-9-72.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:13:26 <andythenorth> hmm 15:13:27 <andythenorth> http://docs.python.org/2/library/profile.html 15:13:39 <andythenorth> we could instrument up nml with profile module 15:13:40 <andythenorth> maybe 15:18:11 <UukGoblin> planetmaker, right, I've created a timidity-wrapper which calls `timidity -Os $*`, and now running openttd -m extmidi:cmd=/path/to/that/timidity-wrapper 15:18:17 <UukGoblin> seems to have fixed it permanently. :-) 15:18:34 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:21:08 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:21:50 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:21:53 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 15:26:58 *** slee [~slee@173-26-167-191.client.mchsi.com] has joined #openttd 15:27:15 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-100-41.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:28:11 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 15:28:12 <slee> hello, i'm new to openttd, i started my game with year 2025...i was able to buy 1 locomotive for a track, but i built a 2nd track and when i try to buy a new train, i nolonger see any locomotives...why is that? 15:31:45 <lugo> have you tried building mag-lev or mono-rail? 15:32:08 <slee> aaah, could the trains have upgraded to electric and i nolonger see diesel engines? i need to upgrade my tracks to electric? 15:35:08 <lugo> worth a try i guess. I normally play with NewGRFs so i don't know about vanilla engines too much.. 15:36:23 <slee> thanks, i'll try upgrading tracks 15:40:36 <planetmaker> slee, in 2025 normal rail engines might not be available any longer. Use monorail or maglev 15:40:49 <planetmaker> (or enable 'vehicles never expire') 15:41:07 <slee> planetmaker, correect, i upgraded to electric, diesel had become obsolete, thanks 15:41:54 *** LSky [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:45 *** LSky [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:47:14 *** LSky [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:48:48 *** Japa [~Japa@117.214.5.71] has joined #openttd 15:48:56 *** LSky [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:52:20 <slee> what is a good 'NewGRF' for vehicles? 15:54:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:54:11 <planetmaker> what do you want? 15:54:21 <planetmaker> what is 'good'? 15:54:27 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 15:54:33 <Flygon> And what sort? 15:54:34 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-24-179.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:54:45 <slee> i'm guessing it's just new graphics for existing vehicles? or does it give you new vehicles? 15:55:00 <Flygon> It depends on the NewGRF 15:55:09 <planetmaker> FISH ship set, av8 aircraft, heqs vehicles, and then a normal vehicle and a normal train set 15:55:10 <Flygon> Some give new graphics, some add new things to the game 15:55:17 <slee> is there a link with a list of them i can view? 15:55:29 <planetmaker> and no, NewGRF is 'new game ressource file'. They usually change how stuff behaves 15:55:48 <Flygon> I've never actually used heqs... and I keep forgetting how to spell eGTVRS 15:56:09 <planetmaker> he, I neve rcan spell that either ;) 15:56:54 <Flygon> slee: The game has an internal NewGRF downloader 15:57:19 <Flygon> And a lot of downloadable content (not just NewGRFs) has a website link associated 15:57:29 <slee> Flygon, yes, i was just wondering if there was a resource page that listed them with details/images 15:57:54 <Flygon> That's what the associated website link usually shows off 15:58:02 <slee> thanks 15:59:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:59:45 <planetmaker> slee, there are some pages in the openttd wiki which list (some) NewGRFs with a brief description 15:59:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 15:59:56 <planetmaker> sorted by categories. Maybe that helps (too) 16:00:04 <slee> thanks, i found it 16:00:08 <planetmaker> but those lists tend to be rather incomplete usually 16:00:52 <planetmaker> slee, you can also go ingame, to the content downloader and use the text input box there to search for things 16:01:18 <planetmaker> e.g. 'train' and you'll get a list of NewGRFs which somehow deal with trains (have it in their name or description) 16:01:28 <slee> gotya 16:05:39 <slee> haha, this is cool, grabbed the egtvrs file, added horse/carriages 16:10:20 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 16:10:38 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 16:17:04 <slee> ok, i've loaded eGRVTSv1.0, FISH, av8 Aviators and HEQS...bit i see in game 'trains' button is greyed out, what is a good(popular) train file? 16:18:27 <planetmaker> there's many, really many. Hence the question 'what is good? What do you want?' 16:18:47 <planetmaker> many cater for one country or region. The name gives it away 16:18:51 <slee> i'm guessing just a basic train that can do all the normal operations 16:18:59 <planetmaker> and then there's OpenGFX+Trains, NUTS, 2ccTrainset 16:19:05 <planetmaker> and other more niche sets 16:22:09 <Japa> I'm fond of NUTS, myself 16:22:26 <Japa> because it focuses more on game balance than recreating the engines of the world 16:29:24 <slee> ssomething else i've noticed on different maps, some have oil rigs out in the water, some don't, what determines if there are oil rigs on the map? 16:29:43 <planetmaker> time 16:29:48 <planetmaker> they can only appear after 1970 16:30:00 <slee> aah 16:30:08 <planetmaker> and possibly also climate. And of course industry NewGRFs 16:43:08 <Japa> Oh dear 16:43:23 <Japa> Visual studio has been "Getting things ready" for an hour so far 16:45:07 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.1.231] has joined #openttd 16:46:19 <Aristide> o/ 16:48:32 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.1.231] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 16:48:59 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.1.231] has joined #openttd 16:49:13 <luaduck> Looking at doing some cross-platform OTTD patched builds, what does the team use for build automation? Jenkins crosses my mind 17:11:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1919B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:11:41 <Japa> Is there a better source for sprite numbers besides just reading through sprites.h? 17:11:53 <Japa> Or is that pretty much it 17:13:46 <planetmaker> opengfx source is also pretty good 17:13:53 <planetmaker> sometimes better :) 17:14:19 <planetmaker> sometimes worse :P 17:15:05 <planetmaker> https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/files/7764e3c05ce9bad6332025ea70ee6bfcefa8008d/docs/authoroverview.csv maybe 17:15:32 <planetmaker> you're only interested really in the part which is prefixed ogfx1_base 17:15:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:15:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 17:17:08 <Japa> Then again, a very small amount of thought makes me realize I was thinking in the wrong direction anyway 17:18:06 <planetmaker> the extra NewGRF adds sprites after that. Those offsets are defined in sprites.h as you found 17:18:58 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:19:17 <Japa> wondering what sprite ids to use for the border stuff, since there's 32 sprite per terrain type needed 17:19:27 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:19:43 <planetmaker> ehm... Japa, you cannot require 32bpp sprites 17:19:46 <planetmaker> only 8bpp 17:20:09 <planetmaker> which sprite (8bpp / 32bpp) and zoom level - that's totally different from sprite numbers 17:20:43 <planetmaker> what you can only do is draw several sprites on top of eachother 17:21:04 <Japa> hence me realizing I'm thinking in the wrong direction 17:21:08 <planetmaker> the 32bpp sprites have alpha. Thus can blend transparently in any ratio. 8bpp only knows transparent yes/no 17:21:35 <planetmaker> thus what you want is an overlay with the transition sprites as needed 17:21:42 <Japa> yes, that 17:21:55 <planetmaker> the transition sprite being same size as the tile. And allowing the sprite itself to define transparency as needed 17:22:27 <Japa> exactly what I was planning. 17:22:33 <planetmaker> :) 17:22:51 <Japa> it can still work fine with 8bpp, by the way 17:22:58 <planetmaker> quite so, yes 17:23:09 <planetmaker> it makes absolutely no difference with that project 17:23:09 <Japa> it's just less glaring an issue than with the extra zoom levels 17:23:21 <planetmaker> 8bpp has the same zoom levels... 17:23:29 <planetmaker> zoom is not bit depth dependent 17:23:49 <Japa> yes, but you don't usually see people making extra zoom levels for 8bpp :P 17:23:57 <Japa> usually 17:24:06 <planetmaker> yet. But you don't see 32bpp really either 17:24:10 <Japa> true 17:24:25 <planetmaker> Though I have the feeling that will change this year 17:24:50 <Japa> anyway, I have quite a bit of code study ahead of me until I can really do anything. 17:24:54 <planetmaker> long enough in trunk so that people start to actually use the new capabilities :) 17:25:12 <Japa> such as learning how newgrfs are loaded 17:25:17 <planetmaker> yeah... there's thorny code pieces ahead 17:25:29 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f7469bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:25:36 <Japa> and figuring out how I want to specify the new sprites 17:25:47 <planetmaker> you don't exactly need to worry about newgrfs too much (yet) 17:25:53 <planetmaker> sprite definition is in my grid patch queue 17:26:09 <planetmaker> that's rather easy (though a bit lengthy) 17:26:17 <planetmaker> and needs patches to grfcodec and nml 17:27:00 <Japa> well, I'll need a way to specify the 32 new sprites per land type 17:27:41 <planetmaker> no, you don't need to worry about that 17:27:49 <planetmaker> you just need overlays. 17:28:06 <planetmaker> oh... 32 sprites? not 32bpp? yes 17:28:10 <planetmaker> a new action5 entry 17:28:45 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/grid/ <-- patches 010 ... 030 17:29:01 <planetmaker> err... 060 actually 17:29:43 <Japa> there's a sprite for each combination of four edge borders 17:29:54 <Japa> and each combination of four corners 17:29:57 <planetmaker> yup. I read a bpp where there was none :) 17:30:03 <Japa> hehehe 17:30:14 <slee> hmm..my iron ore mine has vanished, i'm guessing i depleted it, is there a setting to keep them from depleting...or possibly a grf? 17:30:39 <Japa> yeah, there's a setting 17:31:05 <planetmaker> quak 17:31:16 <frosch123> moin 17:31:53 <slee> quak/moin are grfs? 17:32:02 <SpComb> Mui. 17:32:28 <Japa> Anyway, gonna sleep on it 17:32:29 <planetmaker> hahaha :) That's good, slee. They're greetings :) 17:32:49 <slee> *shrug 17:34:52 <Taede> ello 17:35:41 <planetmaker> hola 17:36:25 <planetmaker> slee, there's manual industries grf. But you need a new map to make that work. Industries when not serviced well tend to close. That's usual behaviour in default game 17:36:36 <planetmaker> they don't close, if well serviced 17:38:10 <slee> k 17:39:01 <slee> so sending more vehicles to pick stuff up will help increase it's output? 17:39:14 <planetmaker> full load also helps 17:39:53 *** Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 17:42:19 <slee> ok, i have a train with 4 hoppers(coal), but they never get full 17:42:39 <slee> what do i need to do to help the mine produce faster? 17:42:41 <planetmaker> won't happen at an iron ore mine 17:43:12 <planetmaker> they need to be refit to the cargo you try to pickup 17:43:53 <slee> sorry, i have 4 coal cars going to a coal mine, but the mine output never increases to help fill them 17:44:33 <planetmaker> if the train is in the station which covers the mine with its pickup area, and the train is on full load, then it will eventually load 17:44:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:45:24 <slee> oh, set the train to sit there until it's full 17:46:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 17:47:44 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:51:42 <slee> oh geeeez, i set a local authority to redo the roads, trying to get in good standings with the town, but now it's trashed the roads and my deliveries 17:52:35 <frosch123> :p 17:53:01 <frosch123> "road refunding" is something you should only do in your opponent's towns 17:53:30 <frosch123> if you want to make the town happy, you should plant trees on fields 17:53:40 <slee> cool 17:53:46 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@irc.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:53:49 <Ailure> haha 17:55:56 *** DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ 18:06:20 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@46.246.119.109] has joined #openttd 18:06:54 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.166.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:07:14 <slee> ok..is there some type of like 'warehouse' where you can send it multiple products from different mines/etc and have your transport vehicles pick them up from there...like a hub? 18:07:21 *** Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:09:21 <planetmaker> it's called station 18:09:54 <slee> right, but doesn't a station only work with the product it's next to? 18:10:06 <planetmaker> please read-up on different kind of orders you can give and how they work :) Especially transfer orders 18:11:20 <Andreas> slee, if you want to make them look nice you can use ISR grf or something similar :) 18:13:30 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has joined #openttd 18:14:07 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-40-217-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 18:15:09 *** Elyon [~elyon@0x52b41996.static.bcbnet.dk] has joined #openttd 18:15:44 <Elyon> how does the trunk cardodist handle "transfer and leave empty" orders? 18:17:23 <Andreas> as fas as I have seen from my test games, same as unload and leave empty 18:17:54 <Andreas> in other words some cargo will still use it as destination in stead of only a transfer 18:18:25 <Andreas> but I might be wrong 18:18:28 <Elyon> ah, alright. I will keep cargo set to manual in my desert games, then :) 18:20:13 <Andreas> *noob question* how can I clone a different revision than trunk with mercurial (or is it not possible?) 18:27:29 <planetmaker> you usually clone all revisions and update to the one you're interested in 18:28:10 <planetmaker> you can use hg clone -updaterev REV URL 18:28:24 <planetmaker> (see hg help clone) 18:29:00 *** greeter [~penguin@2600:e000:7:9d80:f921:fc34:118d:fa82] has joined #openttd 18:35:19 <Eddi|zuHause> <Japa> wondering what sprite ids to use for the border stuff, since there's 32 sprite per terrain type needed <-- generally you would add a new action5 type to the specs, and then add the sprites to openttd.grf and to opengfx_extra.grf 18:35:36 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.1.231] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Discuter simplement. Partout.] 18:38:28 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387A1D7.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:46:07 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26281 /trunk/src/lang (9 files) (2014-01-27 18:45:52 UTC) 18:46:08 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:46:09 <DorpsGek> croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne 18:46:10 <DorpsGek> danish - 1 changes by Knogle 18:46:11 <DorpsGek> dutch - 1 changes by habell 18:46:12 <DorpsGek> german - 2 changes by planetmaker 18:46:13 <DorpsGek> italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv 18:46:14 <DorpsGek> korean - 1 changes by telk5093 18:46:15 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 1 changes by cuthbert 18:46:16 <DorpsGek> slovak - 1 changes by Milsa 18:46:17 <DorpsGek> spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen 18:54:10 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.99.90] has joined #openttd 18:55:36 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.97.168] has joined #openttd 18:58:56 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.99.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:39 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.97.81] has joined #openttd 19:00:57 *** Japa [~Japa@117.214.5.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:04:34 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.97.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:24:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:27:28 <andythenorth> if I just randomise buy costs, is that wrong? o_O 19:27:54 <frosch123> will anyone notice? 19:28:18 <andythenorth> oh we have people in the community who will notice 19:28:28 <andythenorth> guaranteed :) 19:28:31 <frosch123> make it depend on the year 19:28:46 <andythenorth> make it depend on the month 19:28:52 <andythenorth> discounts after christmas 19:29:02 <frosch123> i meant introyear only, but ok :p 19:29:10 <andythenorth> once a year sale 19:29:14 <frosch123> discount after christmas sounds legit 19:29:17 <andythenorth> if you can be bothered to wait 19:29:28 <andythenorth> are costs part of cb36? 19:29:30 * andythenorth looks 19:29:53 <andythenorth> oh they are :) 19:29:59 <frosch123> crap :p 19:30:00 <andythenorth> special price on April 1? 19:30:16 *** NCommander [~mcasadeva@204.232.114.57] has joined #openttd 19:30:24 <NCommander> Afternoon all 19:30:27 <frosch123> free on feb 29 ? 19:30:30 <greeter> greetings NCommander 19:30:43 * NCommander is looking at diving back into OpenTTD 19:30:58 <NCommander> Been ages since the last time I fired it up :-) 19:31:16 <greeter> do it :-D 19:31:26 <andythenorth> also free on the player's birthday (put it in as a parameter) 19:31:50 <frosch123> discount codes via newgrf parameters? 19:32:33 <andythenorth> GS can't modify these vehicle properties? o_O 19:33:08 <frosch123> gs can send your vehicles to depot, and sell them 19:33:14 <frosch123> if they don't like them 19:33:44 <planetmaker> lol, frosch123! What an insane idea! 19:33:59 * NCommander still remembers one game where when upgrading my railroad from steam, I ended up preserving a bunch of older trains, and built a small hertiage branch where they still rain 19:34:01 <andythenorth> BackseatDriverGS 19:34:01 <planetmaker> (and actually a quite viable one. Nice for easter eggs - I'll keep that in mind) 19:34:01 <NCommander> *ran 19:34:13 <andythenorth> ChaosMonkeyGS 19:34:18 <andythenorth> SecondGuessGS 19:34:20 <andythenorth> AnnoyingGS 19:34:23 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: Make everything free for one random day each year, then write an AI that abuses that fact. 19:34:30 <greeter> hmm sounds like it'd be interesting 19:34:42 <frosch123> planetmaker: "you are playing with your little brother" - "sometimes the destroys stuff" 19:34:43 *** Morgan_Freeman [~not_avail@99-194-190-173.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:55 <planetmaker> :D 19:35:19 <planetmaker> the destroying stuff is for GS, though 19:35:20 * andythenorth considers a refurb / secondhand market 19:35:33 *** Morgan_Freeman [~not_avail@99-194-190-173.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #openttd 19:35:42 <andythenorth> we really should make a ChaosMonkeyGS 19:35:47 <NCommander> Prof_Frink, reminds me of the AI that abused things like having vehicles going one way, then selling them, still making a profit and increasing efficenty 19:35:49 <frosch123> ToddlerGS 19:36:08 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 19:36:14 <planetmaker> that AI still exists 19:36:23 <planetmaker> and it actually helped to fix a few real exploits 19:36:31 <andythenorth> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/04/working-with-the-chaos-monkey.html 19:39:06 *** Der_Herr [~Bubbel@p5DDCEC21.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:39:58 <Der_Herr> hi 19:40:20 <Der_Herr> i have a question concerning GameScript 19:41:15 <planetmaker> then you should simply ask it and hope someone knows 19:41:22 *** NCommander [~mcasadeva@204.232.114.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:29 *** NCommander [~mcasadeva@204.232.114.57] has joined #openttd 19:41:31 <planetmaker> @topic get -3 19:41:31 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: English only 19:41:33 <planetmaker> hm 19:41:49 <Der_Herr> i think i noticed a shift in the company id by -1 (starting index now;: 0). if i remember right the previous starting index was 1. do i remember wrong or did it change? 19:41:59 * NCommander hits his internet 19:42:04 *** planetmaker changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.4.0-beta3, 1.3.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Don't ask to ask | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices 19:43:15 <planetmaker> companyID 0 was always the server itself 19:43:26 <planetmaker> afaik 19:43:45 <frosch123> don't mix companyid and clientid 19:43:53 <planetmaker> hm :) 19:44:15 <frosch123> but yes, company 0 is the first human player, sometimes called player 1 19:44:31 <frosch123> but well, what does it matter, they all have names 19:45:14 <Der_Herr> so companyid 0 is the right one for the first company? 19:45:23 <frosch123> yes, it should be 0 to 14 19:45:26 <andythenorth> hmm 19:45:37 <andythenorth> random costs might actually be good 19:45:44 <Der_Herr> hm k 19:45:53 <andythenorth> most sets have a few engines that are equally good, and this makes for fewer boring choices 19:46:09 <andythenorth> just choose the cheapest on current spot price 19:46:15 <andythenorth> next time it might be different 19:47:15 <frosch123> well, vehicles get their purchase price as worth 19:47:24 <frosch123> so, you cannot trade with vehicles :p 19:47:33 <frosch123> they do not gain worth 19:47:42 <andythenorth> I wonder how to implement it 19:47:58 <andythenorth> I could provide a high and low value, and then randomise 3 values in between 19:48:03 <frosch123> hmm, actually you might be able to sell an expensive vehicle and buy a cheaper new one 19:48:08 <andythenorth> or I could look at dates or such 19:48:24 <Andreas> well actually afiak few sets have trains that are 'equally good' usually 1 will have higher power or reliability 19:48:45 <Andreas> but if you play with breakdowns disabled (like most) they are equal :p 19:48:52 <andythenorth> yup 19:48:58 <frosch123> take the date in days, divide it by 13, xor some random number, and do modulo some prime number 19:49:01 <andythenorth> and varying power would be...interesting :) 19:49:28 <frosch123> nuts does some of these things 19:49:38 <frosch123> but you cannot change stuff depending on date 19:49:41 <frosch123> that desyncs 19:49:56 <frosch123> but you can do it like nuts and rerandomise on load/unload 19:50:35 <andythenorth> will it desync if only in the buy menu? 19:50:41 <andythenorth> running costs I don't really care 19:50:50 <andythenorth> running costs are mostly 'blah' anyway 19:51:08 <frosch123> randomizing power only in purchase menu? 19:51:15 <andythenorth> bit mean :) 19:51:16 <frosch123> you mean making it depend on build date 19:51:24 <frosch123> yes, build date is fine 19:51:35 <andythenorth> he 19:51:46 <frosch123> you just cannot randomly change stats while the vehicle is running 19:51:53 <andythenorth> nah, I don't want to do that 19:51:56 <andythenorth> this is purchase time only 19:52:03 <andythenorth> ho would I be able to have two different depot 'buy' windows open with different costs? o_O 19:52:28 <frosch123> making it depend on companyid would be mean :p 19:52:42 <andythenorth> might be amusing 19:52:44 <Andreas> lol, I think you have been infected by the chaos monkey 19:53:00 <andythenorth> 'you have invested in electric traction, your costs are now lower for electric engines' 19:53:01 <andythenorth> etc 19:53:25 <andythenorth> ha ha 19:53:34 <andythenorth> can I read any vars off the company or the HQ? 19:53:35 <Andreas> electric traction? 19:53:52 * andythenorth ponders a GS that offers investment choices, which modify vehicles 19:53:55 <frosch123> andythenorth: company id and company colours 19:54:12 <frosch123> red trains are cheaper :p 19:54:19 <andythenorth> I was looking for somewhere for GS to dump some vars I could read with newgrf 19:54:30 <Andreas> I like that goal gs that takes money from other companies if you achieve certain stuff 19:54:50 <andythenorth> frosch123: but red ships cost more... 19:55:06 <andythenorth> and blue trucks are cheap, but blue planes are frighteningly expensive 19:55:34 <andythenorth> this could be done by base costs without touching newgrf? 19:55:52 <andythenorth> without touching newgrf *vehicles* /s 19:55:54 <frosch123> planetmaker: you should do a rainbow gs which switches company colours 5 times per day 19:56:20 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host58-55-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:56:44 <planetmaker> :OOO 19:57:07 <planetmaker> frosch123, that's gs-nuts. That should tell you who should write it ;) 19:57:14 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:57:26 <andythenorth> CorporateRebrandingGS 19:57:50 <andythenorth> why is no-one writing funny GS? 19:57:52 <andythenorth> :P 19:58:42 <Wolf01> o/ 19:58:53 <frosch123> aww, there are no api functions for the colours 19:58:57 <Andreas> andythenorth, may I conclude from this that you are actually bored with the game, and now want it to randomly annoy/enjoy you? 19:58:59 <frosch123> only for the president gender 19:59:21 <andythenorth> Andreas: I have been bored with the game since about 2008 19:59:25 <andythenorth> :) 19:59:51 <andythenorth> frosch123: I believe you have commit rights :P 20:00:03 <frosch123> for how long? :p 20:00:30 <andythenorth> depends how funny the results are 20:01:36 <Andreas> I think some people might have a different notion of 'funny" 20:02:41 *** Micchan [~Micchan@92-249-205-120.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 20:03:41 *** Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has joined #openttd 20:03:41 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1919B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:25 *** TheMask96- [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 20:07:08 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:10:38 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:19:46 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-40-217-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:33 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 20:38:13 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:42:48 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:42:59 *** wubic [~eviltoast@c-62-220-183-22.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Quit: /join #real-life | Leaving] 20:46:27 <FLHerne> Is there a straightforward way to check the orientation of a neighbouring NewObject (from another one) in NML? 'nearby_tile_object_type' will tell me what it is but not (IIUC) where. 20:46:50 <FLHerne> s/where/which angle it's at/ 20:48:00 <FLHerne> I could do something hacky with animation frames (does that work?), but a more straightforward method would be nice 20:49:28 <planetmaker> happy hacking :) 20:50:07 <FLHerne> Or not - "Not sure whether this was answered, but "nearby_tile_animation_frame" cannot access animation frames of other objects" 20:50:34 <FLHerne> From the forum. Surely there must be some way to do it? 20:50:43 <planetmaker> no 20:50:53 <FLHerne> Different objects, but from the same grf and with known IDs 20:51:00 <planetmaker> if it needs to correlate, make it one object 20:51:22 <FLHerne> I don't actually need an animation frame, just the orientation/view 20:51:30 <planetmaker> otherwise you have quickly an endless loop: A: check tile B; B: check tile A 20:51:46 <planetmaker> so the internal state is not accessible 20:52:24 <FLHerne> Objects of the same type don't need to know about each other, and there are no two types that each need to know about the other 20:53:06 * FLHerne looks forward to having umpteen-million IDs then 20:53:06 <planetmaker> then A->B->C->A 20:53:16 <planetmaker> also a circle ;) 20:53:42 <FLHerne> Thinking about it, the circularity doesn't matter anyway 20:53:58 <planetmaker> FLHerne, but that's the reason it's not available 20:54:04 <planetmaker> it is possible 20:54:28 <planetmaker> and circularity would need detection and breaking. Rather a nightmare 20:54:29 <FLHerne> If I'm setting one property (graphics) based on a different thing (view) it can't make a circular dependency 20:54:34 *** APTX_ [~APTX@2001:470:1f0b:1a9d:2ff:ffff:fe00:1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:55:26 <FLHerne> Is there any way an object could set its view based on another object's view such that a dependency could exist there? 20:55:27 <frosch123> FLHerne: i don't think you can access the anim state of other objects 20:56:15 <FLHerne> frosch123: I don't actually want the anim state, I want the view state. 20:56:18 <planetmaker> FLHerne, in principle access to the view would be much more unproblematic than animation state, yes 20:56:19 <frosch123> the fences stuff does it just depending on the id, not depending on the orientation 20:56:38 <FLHerne> I just thought about anim because view is more obviously not available 20:57:11 <frosch123> i feel like we discussed orientation before 20:57:44 <FLHerne> frosch123: I didn't, unless I picked up some amnesia sometime 20:58:44 <FLHerne> So...I can have 4x as many IDs, or glitchy extraneous fences, or glitchy lack of fences :-( 20:58:58 <FLHerne> At least 1.4 has more IDs to waste 20:59:28 <planetmaker> what do you try to do, FLHerne ? 20:59:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A71A.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:00:35 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A71A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:01:15 <FLHerne> planetmaker: I want fences between two objects if they're orientated in one way relative to each other, and not in a different case 21:01:28 <planetmaker> uh 21:01:44 <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=67265 https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5696 <- didn't get particular many responses 21:01:56 <FLHerne> Because there are multiple types of object with such relationships, making 2/3/n-tile objects for each case would get silly fast 21:02:40 <FLHerne> Ah, so I'm in good company with my demands :D 21:02:58 <frosch123> but hey, i remembered it :p 21:03:16 <frosch123> and i think the conclusion was to put it in the upper word, instead of the upper byte 21:03:20 <planetmaker> in principle var 0x63 of objects could return the view. Or a new variable 21:03:48 <planetmaker> sorry, 0x62 (nearby_tile_land_info) 21:04:37 <Der_Herr> i am still not convinced wether the first company has the id 0 or 1... 21:05:00 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.96.24] has joined #openttd 21:05:04 <planetmaker> switch to company mode, build a sign. And you know by the colour 21:07:05 <Der_Herr> and the color tells me what? 21:07:46 <frosch123> why does the company id matter? 21:08:01 <planetmaker> the colour tells you which company it is 21:08:02 <frosch123> in what context do you use it? 21:08:20 <frosch123> as in: scripts may very well count them differently than e.g. console commands like start/stop_ai 21:08:25 <frosch123> or the "move" command 21:08:45 <Der_Herr> in GS i get the id 0 21:08:57 <Der_Herr> but from admin console (i think) i get 1 21:09:00 <frosch123> human interfaces start with 1, programming interfaces start with 0 21:11:12 <FLHerne> Aside - If 'nearby_tile_animation_frame' really is only valid for tiles of the same object, shouldn't that be documented on the NML specs page? And does the same go for 'nearby_tile_random_bits'? 21:11:32 <frosch123> yes, and same for industries, stations and houses 21:11:47 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.97.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:11:48 <frosch123> and airports 21:11:52 <FLHerne> At the moment they're listed alongside and in the same format as 'nearby_tile_slope' et al, which obviously don't have that limitation 21:15:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:15:37 <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3030/ <- anyway, something like that? 21:15:57 <FLHerne> Is that a 'go edit the wiki' thing, or is it to increase traffic for the IRC channel and forums? :P 21:16:26 <frosch123> it is to lower the time distance to the next cake 21:21:28 * FLHerne doesn't understand the response 21:22:01 <FLHerne> Was that intended to convey some meaning? Or just cake? 21:22:07 <frosch123> 3719 to go 21:23:21 <planetmaker> <3 that patch, frosch123 . But shouldn't we rather use << 30 or so? 21:23:30 <planetmaker> to allow more objectIDs, if needed? :D 21:23:51 <frosch123> no, i rather allow more views 21:23:57 <frosch123> or drag distance 21:24:10 <frosch123> we need dragable objects 21:24:17 <planetmaker> ok 21:24:27 <FLHerne> Ah. Cakes at intervals of 10k revisions? 21:24:49 <planetmaker> well... we had this year another rev... 21:25:58 <FLHerne> I edited the wiki, could someone confirm if I got it right? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=NML:Objects&diff=prev&oldid=3491 21:26:37 <planetmaker> yup 21:26:40 <FLHerne> Even if you go and make it wrong tomorrow, which would be nice :P 21:27:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 21:28:55 *** Der_Herr [~Bubbel@p5DDCEC21.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: [ www.eXirc.net ] # Es ist nicht die Aufgabe eines Soldaten fÌr sein Vaterland zu sterben, es ist seine Aufgabe dafÌr zu sorgen, das der Feind fÌr seines ] 21:32:30 <frosch123> __ln__: can you please explain the usage of "das" and "dass" to Der_Herr, next time he joins 21:33:54 <planetmaker> haha :) I thought about the same 21:34:25 <planetmaker> fail at trying to look cool ;) 21:35:24 <__ln__> @seen Der_Herr 21:35:24 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Der_Herr was last seen in #openttd 26 minutes and 27 seconds ago: <Der_Herr> but from admin console (i think) i get 1 21:36:06 <__ln__> okay 21:37:32 *** Morgan_Freeman [~not_avail@99-194-190-173.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:38:32 *** Morgan_Freeman [~not_avail@99-194-190-173.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #openttd 21:50:02 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.97.20] has joined #openttd 21:55:29 *** LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:56:50 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.96.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:57:16 *** LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has joined #openttd 21:58:50 *** Morgan_Freeman [~not_avail@99-194-190-173.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:58:50 <planetmaker> good night 22:00:24 <UukGoblin> hm 22:00:59 <UukGoblin> when I have a 2-platform station next to an oil refinery, is it possible to force the goods trains to only occupy max 1 platform when loading? 22:01:06 <UukGoblin> leaving the other platform available for oil delivery? 22:01:39 <Taede> you'd either have to use a waypoint preceding the goods-platform, or split the station in to 2 22:01:39 <peter1138> if (!(foo == bar)) 22:01:40 <peter1138> :S 22:01:46 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.97.20] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:52 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.98.196] has joined #openttd 22:01:58 <frosch123> peter1138: if (foo == true) 22:02:07 <Taede> usually its better to have a separate station for dropoff of resources and another for pickup of goods 22:02:13 <UukGoblin> Taede, ah, waypoint sounds interesting 22:02:37 *** xT2 is now known as ST2 22:02:40 <frosch123> you can also use a depot 22:02:57 <frosch123> let the goods trains run into a depot and make only one track from the depot to the station 22:03:08 <frosch123> while oil trains go directly to the station, and not to the depot 22:03:30 <UukGoblin> frosch123, ah, interesting too :-) 22:03:31 <frosch123> that way also waiting goods trains will not block the track 22:03:34 <UukGoblin> so many solutions. wow. :-) 22:04:28 <UukGoblin> ah yes, I forgot depots provide infinite space for carriages :-) 22:05:30 <frosch123> make sure to use the right signalling so trains only leave the depot when the platform is free 22:06:51 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.97.1] has joined #openttd 22:07:01 <luaduck> any reason why my copy of openttd is trying to load a savegame that I don't believe exists? 22:07:11 <luaduck> it's overriding my config 22:08:27 <luaduck> -d 1 shows nothing of any use 22:10:08 <UukGoblin> got any tips on how to order trains around with such a setup? OIL RIG ==== OIL RIG ==== REFINERY ==== REFINERY? :-) 22:10:30 <UukGoblin> I sort of told them to go rig1 -> refinery1 -> rig2 -> refinery2 22:10:50 <frosch123> night 22:10:54 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f7469bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:11:03 <UukGoblin> one enhancement I can see is to try partial load at rig2 and skip going to rig1 if load is full 22:11:39 <luaduck> Broken savegame - Invalid chunk size, even though there is NOTHING in my commandline or config that points to anything suspicious 22:13:34 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.98.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:14:57 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 22:14:57 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:12 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 22:18:07 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:27:54 <UukGoblin> ffs 22:28:04 <UukGoblin> rig1 now announced imminent closure :-( 22:28:10 <UukGoblin> after I built all the stuff 22:28:44 <UukGoblin> I mean oil well, not rig, actually. but still. 22:31:31 <FLHerne> UukGoblin: Always nice, that 22:32:31 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:35:36 <luaduck> my dedicated server is ignoring build_on_slopes :( 22:36:01 <luaduck> infact it keeps setting it back when it saves the config 22:36:30 <FLHerne> luaduck: Are you trying to change the config file while it's running? I don't think that works 22:36:36 <luaduck> nope, I'm closing it 22:36:58 <luaduck> cleanly 22:38:35 <Xaroth|Work> perhaps the savegame has it set? 22:38:43 <luaduck> it's not loading a savegame 22:38:52 <luaduck> there aren't any savegames anywhere 22:38:59 <luaduck> there isn't even a ~/.openttd 22:39:19 <Xaroth|Work> it doesn't look -just- in there, there are other locations as well 22:39:49 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.97.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:41:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 22:41:12 <luaduck> is there a list? 22:41:13 <UukGoblin> a conditional order skip based on trains present on platforms would be nice ;-) 22:42:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 22:43:52 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387A1D7.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 22:44:35 <FLHerne> luaduck: Yes, readme, section 4 22:44:57 <luaduck> none of those places have saves in 22:45:09 <luaduck> working dir, well it's a dedi so that's definitely no 22:45:17 <luaduck> personal, ~/.openttd doesn't exist 22:45:21 <luaduck> shared n/a 22:45:27 <luaduck> binary it's a dedi that isn't installed 22:45:36 <luaduck> same with install dir 22:46:26 <Andreas> UukGoblin, you could use an "escape depot": http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_station#Escape_depot 22:46:59 <luaduck> I wish debug logging would say what save it's loading 22:47:54 <Andreas> and then just place it on the track the goods trains use (force them on that track with a waypoint or build a seperate station 22:48:57 <UukGoblin> hm, gotta learn more about these depots and waypoints 22:49:01 <UukGoblin> thanks :-) 22:51:24 <luaduck> is there a command to reload the config 22:52:07 <UukGoblin> why are there no bi-directional path signals? 22:52:27 <LSky> it works like one, I believe 22:52:31 <FLHerne> UukGoblin: Because the concep makes very limited sense? 22:52:33 <LSky> the one without the white panel 22:53:08 <FLHerne> UukGoblin: They'd have to be facing each other, and the only situation where you want that is long single tracks where you can easily spare the extra tile 22:54:00 <UukGoblin> FLHerne, ah. I'd have to think more about it I guess. 22:54:27 <UukGoblin> so far I've been trying to enforce one-way path signals and build double-tracks everywhere (for right-hand side train driving) 22:54:35 <UukGoblin> but now I'm thinking that's not very efficient 22:55:03 <UukGoblin> because trains could use the other lane in case of congestion due to breakage 22:55:23 <FLHerne> UukGoblin: Don't try that. It doesn't work, and makes everything worse :P 22:55:53 <UukGoblin> FLHerne, what, one-way tracks, or trying to re-use the oncoming lane? :-) 22:56:48 <FLHerne> UukGoblin: You either get trains weaving across for no reason (delays things) or breaking down while weaving (now *both* lanes are blocked)... 22:56:51 <FLHerne> UukGoblin: The latter 22:57:06 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 23:00:43 <UukGoblin> ok :-) 23:03:09 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50-32-24-106.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:07:40 <Wolf01> 'night 23:07:44 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:10:18 <luaduck> ok I need an adult / developer, I am really stumped by this 23:12:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A71A.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:12:35 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 23:14:03 <FLHerne> luaduck: Try sometime other than midnight ;-) 23:14:16 <luaduck> yeah I guess so 23:15:38 <Andreas> I've hade problems with ottd randomly overwrighting the config file aswell, unfortunately I cannot remember what I did wrong or what fixed it 23:30:01 *** Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:30:01 *** Micchan [~Micchan@92-249-205-120.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) --> http://micchan.tk] 23:39:47 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:42:00 <luaduck> anyone happen to know where openttd gets its default settings from? 23:42:07 *** Andreas [~Tyrion@s5375406a.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:42:11 <luaduck> ie before it writes the config for the first time 23:44:10 <luaduck> found it, src/table/settings.ini 23:44:18 *** mek42 [~chatzilla@cpe-74-79-52-81.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:49:37 *** NCommander [~mcasadeva@204.232.114.57] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:50:54 *** Andreas [~Tyrion@s5375406a.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 23:53:30 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 23:55:17 *** Virtual [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]