Log for #openttd on 28th February 2014:
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01:43:51  <Flygon_> Oh man
01:43:58  <Flygon_> All these tiny features in OpenTTD are amazing!
01:44:09  <Flygon_> I just learned you can double click a vehicle on the screen to stop it! O_O
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01:49:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i know that as ctrl+click
01:57:32  <Hazzard> ^
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02:07:06  <Flygon> Fuuuu
02:07:10  <Flygon> Accidentally hit Send To Depot
02:07:13  <Flygon> FOR EVERY ROAD VEHICLE
02:07:22  <Flygon> We need a reverse button :|
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02:27:42  <Hazzard> XD
02:38:29  <Flygon> Annd oh crap
02:38:35  <Flygon> I need to build two waypoints in one tile
02:38:36  <Flygon> ...
02:41:50  <Flygon> Ever have those moments where you realize your layouts are useless due to one tiny thing?
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03:20:24  <Supercheese> Load an autosave :)
03:20:34  <Supercheese> You mightn't lose that much progress
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05:08:05  <Flygon> Supercheese: It's not even that
05:08:13  <Flygon> It's just that I have to redo an entire layout of the station
05:08:19  <Flygon> I'm lucky I put nothing through yet
05:08:31  <Flygon> Either way
05:08:36  <Flygon> Iceland's full of Oil Pumps
05:08:42  <Flygon> Shame about the map edges all being water :|
05:09:12  <Flygon> Only ONE refinery on the whole map
05:09:26  <Flygon> I'll have to see about getting it self-sustaining until I can build a very very long railway line
05:11:30  <Flygon> Literally one refinery on an entire 2048*2048 map... kinda hurts @_@
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05:44:09  <Supercheese> Oh lord, I am not understanding hg
05:44:17  <Supercheese> merges and pushes and bears, oh my
05:46:13  <Supercheese> ah screw it
05:46:18  <Flygon> What's this about bears and pushing?
05:46:32  <Supercheese> I don't understand how the devzone mercurial wizardry works
05:46:39  <Supercheese> local copies, remote copies, merges
05:46:43  <Flygon> Ah
05:46:52  <Supercheese> svn is nice and simple
05:46:57  <Flygon> Well, I know how... uh...
05:47:04  <Flygon> I have nothing to say that makes me sound intelligent
05:47:11  <Supercheese> eh, now is not the time for coding
05:47:15  <Supercheese> now is the time for video games
05:47:29  <Flygon> TO TWITCH PLAYS POKEMON!
05:47:43  <Supercheese> Twitch does nuzlocke run... whooboy
05:47:52  <Flygon> ...oh man
05:48:02  <Flygon> How to actually LOSE at Pokemon
05:48:13  <Supercheese> What happens if your last pokémon faints in nuzlocke? Permadeath to your trainer?
05:48:30  <Supercheese> (so wildly off-topic)
05:48:32  <Flygon> You black out
05:48:33  <Flygon> Forever.
05:48:38  <Supercheese> so, yes
05:48:55  <Supercheese> Twitch wouldn't last two routes
05:49:21  <Flygon> Nevermind how they got past the first two routes in the first place
05:49:54  <Supercheese> Also:
05:50:25  <Flygon> Yes, I saw :P
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08:23:05  <dihedral> good morning
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08:31:03  <Flygon> Menta
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09:30:03  <Celestar> foooo :)
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09:40:51  <Xaroth|Work> o/ Celestar
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09:47:33  <dihedral> uh - a Celestar - nice to see you sir
09:52:18  <Celestar> how is life?
09:54:24  <dihedral> life is good, work is crap :-P
09:54:54  <dihedral> that sums it up quite well, actually. how about yourself?
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09:58:33  <Celestar> haha
09:58:34  <Celestar> well.
09:58:36  <Celestar> similar.
09:58:46  <Celestar> actually work isn't really crap. just much. very much.
09:59:33  <Xaroth|Work> i feel your pain
10:00:33  <Celestar> ;)
10:00:39  <Celestar> I need another life :P
10:01:06  <Xaroth|Work> Or a clone
10:01:12  <Xaroth|Work> but they might revolt :|
10:02:51  <Celestar> they would, :)
10:03:05  <Celestar> trying to catch up with openttd
10:06:46  <Celestar> which isn't easy considering :P
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10:19:10  <Eddi|zuHause> there are only two notable things: CargoDist is finally in, and DBSet is still not released :p
10:22:23  <Celestar> yeah.
10:22:29  <Celestar> will DBSet ever be released :)
10:24:46  <planetmaker> a Celestar !!
10:25:38  <planetmaker> dbset is openttd's duke nukem forever ;)
10:25:50  <V453000> never or will be shit? :D
10:26:03  <V453000> hello :)
10:26:09  <planetmaker> hey ho :)
10:28:02  <peter1139> planetmaker, so it _will_ come out eventually?
10:28:17  <planetmaker> who knows?
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10:28:57  <planetmaker> we should quickly introduce something new for trains
10:29:01  <planetmaker> like real shunting or so
10:29:07  <planetmaker> that would add another two years for sure :P
10:29:33  <planetmaker> to the unspecified amount of time to pass anyway before release
10:31:37  <Eddi|zuHause> "After the great success of the LEGO movie, warner now secured the rights for a Minecraft movie"
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10:57:49  <Celestar> who is acutally working on DBSet? :P
10:58:17  <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what you call "work" :p
11:10:12  <Celestar> good question.
11:10:14  <Celestar> what do I?
11:10:41  <Xaroth|Work> What do you what?
11:12:13  <Celestar> what do I call 'working on DBset'
11:12:29  <Celestar> maybe I should rephrase. who is planning to work on DBset ?
11:12:57  <Eddi|zuHause> well MB claims he has picked up work on it since december
11:13:18  <Eddi|zuHause> and is currently asking for input on engine selection for early steam engines
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11:35:08  <Celestar> ah
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11:54:08  <Flygon> We need a TTD movie
11:56:05  <TinoDidriksen> Well, write a screenplay.
12:05:35  <Eddi|zuHause> "A man from chicago charged with drug cooking wore a 'Pollos Hermanos' T-Shirt on his arrest"
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12:11:51  <Rubidium_> ave Celestar
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12:34:37  <Celestar> heya Rubidium_
12:41:18  <planetmaker> I actually believe that eddi is working on the true dbset :)
12:41:30  <planetmaker> by spirit but not name
12:44:54  <Eddi|zuHause> again depending on the definition of "work" :p
12:45:16  <Eddi|zuHause> but actually, a large part of the motivation behind CETS was the DR side of the whole story
12:46:54  <Eddi|zuHause> (next to the whole longer wagons story)
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13:01:31  <planetmaker> and I still believe it will be one of the more interesting sets when it really becomes available, Eddi|zuHause :)
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14:47:40  <V453000> I would believe more even in new DB set than CETS ever getting drawn :D
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15:49:04  <Starlight> How do I load a game on the server?
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15:50:16  <Starlight> How do i load a game on the Dedicated server I play on?
15:52:15  <Starlight> Ok, How do I find out what number the savegame is then?
15:52:30  <Starlight> I just figured out the load command..
15:53:02  <Taede> there is also ls (list directory), cd (change dir) and pwd (current working dir)
15:53:18  <Starlight> Ty
15:53:33  <Taede> just make sure you use rcon <rconpassword> load <savegame>
15:54:04  <Taede> using load without the rcon bit would just load the game on your local client
15:54:24  <Taede> also:
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15:56:45  <Taede> its bound to have one or 2 commands you may find useful too
15:58:46  <Starlight> It doesn't work.. It just say "Load a game name or index"!
15:58:58  <Starlight> I am typing in game number 2
16:01:04  <Starlight> rcon Pass load 2
16:01:08  <Starlight> Isn't working..
16:02:04  <Starlight> Helluu?
16:05:03  <Starlight> I got it working using the console.. In the server window.. Rcon didn't work..
16:13:49  <peter1139> rcon pass "load 2" maybe
16:13:58  <peter1139> dunno if that ever got resolved
16:14:06  <peter1139> or if i'm imagining it
16:31:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a patch for that
16:32:22  <peter1139> :)
16:32:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember why it was not included
16:33:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure there was something wrong with the approach :)
16:35:31  <Eddi|zuHause>
16:35:38  <Eddi|zuHause> err
16:35:45  <Eddi|zuHause>
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16:49:48  <peter1139> Clearly it's too old.
17:00:57  <Eddi|zuHause> only like 6000 revisions
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18:52:48  <Wolf01> hello o/
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18:55:43  <Alberth> hi hi
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19:03:09  <rubenwardy_> My cyclotron does not work.
19:03:15  <rubenwardy_> The train just stops
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19:07:18  <Alberth> assuming you took it from openttdcoop, they have special openttd.cfg settings for the path finder
19:07:49  <rubenwardy_> probably
19:08:14  <Alberth>   perhaps this?
19:08:34  <rubenwardy_> I am reading from here:
19:09:14  <planetmaker> good even ink
19:09:30  <Alberth> ok, those things look way too complicated to bother about, to me
19:09:35  <Alberth> oddink planetmaker
19:10:03  <planetmaker> rubenwardy_, also the cyclotron on the openttd wiki might assume set yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol 1
19:10:19  <planetmaker> generally I don't consider cyclotrons a useful thing, though :)
19:10:21  <Alberth> iirc V claims the cyclotron to be ineffective mostly
19:10:44  <planetmaker> especially if it involves sharp curves like shown in the screenshot
19:10:52  <planetmaker> V is totally right with that claim :)
19:11:03  <rubenwardy_> works!
19:11:14  <planetmaker> (and I don't know how people get the idea that it's a coop thing to build - on the contrary)
19:11:15  <rubenwardy_> Thaks, Alberth
19:11:21  <Alberth> for some value of 'work'  no doubt :)
19:11:54  <Alberth> planetmaker: it looks like a complete chaos of tracks :)
19:11:58  <planetmaker> it's more efficient to implement a slight forward-priority with acceleration space
19:12:46  <rubenwardy_> oops
19:12:50  <rubenwardy_> Thanks planetmaker
19:13:03  <planetmaker> (my definition of efficiency is flow or network throughput with trains stopping as little as possible)
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19:14:49  <Matulla> hi all i got a question  FARM Rail station  i woudt like to unload also  food processed by the foodfactory to carry away  by lory how do i set up the train settings to unload the food and only load the corn
19:15:04  <Matulla> it also carries the food away
19:15:24  <Matulla> if the lory is not in station
19:16:11  <planetmaker> goto FARM and refit to CORN
19:16:21  <planetmaker> you need a trainset which allows autorefit in stations
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19:16:56  <planetmaker> opengfx+trains does allow that. AFAIK also NUTS and IronHorse
19:16:56  <andythenorth> o/
19:16:59  <planetmaker> \o
19:17:13  <andythenorth> where is game? o_O
19:17:16  <andythenorth> where is pikka?
19:17:42  <Matulla> ok i will find a way
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19:17:58  <andythenorth> so what's this thing about best passenger locomotive?
19:18:01  <andythenorth> I didn't follow
19:18:21  <planetmaker> oh, that guy wants to convince everyone that the payment formula is crap
19:18:55  <andythenorth> what's the problem with it?
19:19:24  <planetmaker> it's a non-monotonous function
19:19:36  <planetmaker> he shows graphs in that or another thread
19:19:42  <andythenorth> assume I failed A-level further maths :P
19:20:26  <planetmaker> f(x) is monotonous, if for all x: f(x) <= f(x + deltx)
19:20:35  <planetmaker> and deltax > 0
19:21:19  <valhallasw> andythenorth: monotonous = better service => more payment
19:21:36  <andythenorth> so is the faster train better or not? o_O
19:21:55  <planetmaker> dunno. Probably not
19:22:48  <planetmaker> the slower one is a steamer. So ... it's cooler :P
19:24:48  <planetmaker> I need your vote for titlegame(s), andythenorth
19:25:18  <andythenorth> where's the topic
19:26:09  <planetmaker>
19:26:35  *** |Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen
19:26:36  <planetmaker> vote actually ends... Sunday night CET :P
19:26:55  <Alberth> we should make the profit go down to 0, beyond 256 tiles :p
19:27:07  <planetmaker> haha :)
19:31:05  <andythenorth> Entry 05 is interesting
19:31:07  <andythenorth> zoomed out?
19:31:21  <andythenorth> entry 05 is my favourite
19:31:27  <andythenorth> too many boring big cities in the others
19:31:40  <andythenorth> never use arctic, it's dour.  Always use temperate
19:31:59  <planetmaker> :) send me a forum message or e-mail with your top 3 choices
19:32:17  <andythenorth> oic :P
19:32:19  <andythenorth> k
19:32:31  <planetmaker> easier to count then :)
19:32:47  <Alberth> the tricky part is that it must be 3 different choices :p
19:32:48  <andythenorth> done
19:32:53  <andythenorth> I only chose 2
19:32:58  <andythenorth> the rest are blah
19:34:35  * Alberth needs tea
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19:58:25  <Alberth> choices sent
20:00:18  <planetmaker> :-)
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20:00:45  <planetmaker> would you want to stay anonymous or can I publish your vote afterwards?
20:01:06  <planetmaker> (I plan to publish it, so that everyone can check that I counted his/her vote correctly)
20:01:20  <Alberth> you can post my vote afterwards
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20:26:20  <DDR> Well, got schooled by a guy building a *huge* coal transport network.
20:26:44  <DDR> Got a bit of passenger going, but when you're making 60k/train it's hard to beat.
20:26:53  <DDR> He had the network fucking *future-proofed*, too.
20:27:27  <DDR> Cloverleaf interchanges and everything.
20:27:55  <DDR> 'twas quite the endevour, really.
20:28:11  <planetmaker> cloverleaves jam
20:28:34  <DDR> 
20:28:50  <planetmaker> yes. They don't follow the rule "split before join". They do it the opposite
20:29:13  <planetmaker> thus trains can be blocked by trains which block the path they need to go
20:29:36  <DDR> Hunh.
20:29:38  <planetmaker> thus a waits for be while be waits for a. All in a nice circle
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20:29:58  <DDR> That makes sense, I guess.
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20:30:52  <DDR> I'd never really considered it. Also, I must keep that rule in mind.
20:31:14  <planetmaker> that's actually the only important rule for network flow :)
20:31:34  <planetmaker> well. signaling. and ... :P
20:31:47  <DDR> I thiiiink you just upped my game.
20:32:01  <DDR> I actually understand signalling, mostly.
20:32:17  <planetmaker> :)
20:32:19  <DDR> Some of the pre-combo-exit stuff is still a bit fuzzy.
20:32:36  <planetmaker> it gets complicated when one starts to play the path finder :)
20:33:06  <planetmaker> like making sure that trains with only one station in the order list do exactly what they are supposed to do and return still a big profit
20:33:07  <DDR> I can, just, prevent my trains from reaching a station and turning back down the line because the station is full.
20:33:43  <DDR> How do you make a profit with just one station? According to all I know, that should be strictly impossible.
20:33:55  <DDR> Indeed.
20:34:00  <Eddi|zuHause> that was not the content of the sentence :)
20:34:11  <planetmaker> it works fabulously. If you have the right network for it
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20:34:30  <Eddi|zuHause> you ORDER it to one station, and let it go through a series of red or green signals to end up at another station
20:34:41  <DDR> OH, that makes sense.
20:34:49  <DDR> I forgot about implicit stations!
20:35:04  <planetmaker>
20:35:45  <planetmaker> works mostly only when you have a network dedicated to each cargo separately
20:35:53  <DDR> I want one.
20:36:03  <planetmaker> or if you have trains which allow reasonable autorefit in stations
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20:36:28  * DDR nods
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20:43:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and you can't use cargodist
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21:00:26  <Gallomimia> hi i'm a bit of a noob here. still trying to get my bearings with all that is "openttd" just playing a game where i'm messing with a maglev network. Having serious problems with the bridges slowing everything down. looking on google and seeing some kind of option for raising bridge speed limits but i don't know how to activate it. i'm open to suggestions of all kinds for making bridges not be such an impediment. thanks in advance fo
21:00:26  <Gallomimia> r your tips
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21:10:08  <Alberth> make bridges as short as possible
21:10:18  <Alberth> and double, triple, or quadruple them
21:11:22  <planetmaker> Gallomimia, bridges will always slow down the fastest maglev trains
21:11:24  <Alberth> for your next game, you may want to look into some bridge NewGRF
21:11:46  <planetmaker> unless you find a NewGRF which raises the speed limit to beyond their speed. Not sure it exists
21:11:57  <Gallomimia> i did see one in my search
21:12:08  <Gallomimia> does it involve restarting the game?
21:12:10  <planetmaker> but if you don't cross water: build tunnels instead
21:12:19  <planetmaker> it involves starting a new game, yes
21:12:22  <Gallomimia> yeah it's water
21:12:36  <Alberth> use ships instead :p
21:12:38  * andythenorth hates docks on canals :P
21:12:42  <andythenorth> I just built one
21:12:44  <planetmaker> alternatively: build canals in the water and leave one tile between them
21:12:44  <andythenorth> lame
21:12:50  <Gallomimia> oh well it's only a night of play. i just built my first ship
21:12:50  <planetmaker> then clear the water between the canals
21:13:25  <Gallomimia> my first time trying maglevs. decided to start with them instead of any other type of trains. very expensive :/
21:14:20  <Gallomimia> only my second game. sure is fun. i'm finding some expansion to add more industries? seems neat. and i see there's a way to play massive coop games? is that big in the community/
21:15:02  <planetmaker> depends on whom you ask. I'd say 'yes'. But many play single player or competitive
21:15:28  <planetmaker> as for industry NewGRFs: you might try FIRS or OpenGFX+Industries
21:16:10  <planetmaker> with FIRS use tropical landscape and economy 'Heart of Darkness' (via NewGRF parameter). With OpenGFX+Industries just choose via parameters which industries you want to use (all default, but independent of climate, if you like)
21:17:09  <Gallomimia> sounds like you're talking greek so far. :) let me just ask you this. is there a big desparity between all the different flavors of this game i'm seeing? i see ttdpatch which i think is a patch on the copywritten game. and then there's openttd and also a fork of it called simutrans?
21:17:19  <Taede> mind that if you play with firs you will also need a trainset (and other vehicle sets) which will transport the non-standard cargoes
21:17:42  <planetmaker> good point, Taede ^
21:18:01  <planetmaker> anyway... have a nice weekend all of you. I'm off for now :)
21:18:07  <Alberth> bye planetmaker
21:18:07  <Taede> simutrans is a different game altogether, no ties to openttd except for the premise to transport cargo
21:19:21  <DDR> I didn't like simutrans half as much as OpenTTD, it seemed to have some UI issues and, in general, confused the heck out of me.
21:19:43  <Gallomimia> thanks for that info. i'll stick with my openttd i think :)
21:19:52  <DDR> It might be better now, though.
21:20:03  <Alberth> simutrans starts with routes for the trains, which is indeed more confusing at first
21:20:08  <Gallomimia> was delighted when i started typing something in CLI starting with open and found it through tab completion
21:20:21  <Alberth> :)
21:20:23  <Gallomimia> what now?! there's a simcity like game installed on my system by default??? oooooooooo
21:20:34  <Alberth> lincity?
21:21:45  <Alberth> actually, the original simcity is now open source, and known as micropolis. It does run at linux too
21:22:22  <Gallomimia> bah that crap is boring compared to openttd!
21:23:18  <Alberth> in this channel, it is :D
21:23:45  <DDR> Lincity's always been for Linux!
21:24:11  <Alberth> yeah, I haven't tried it for ages though
21:24:46  <Alberth> at some point they had too heavy graphics, rates of 1 frame / second isnot much fun :)
21:24:54  <Gallomimia> lincity != micropolis?
21:24:59  <DDR> Yeah.
21:25:12  <Gallomimia> god bless open source.
21:25:17  <DDR> Lincity goes way back, and has more of a 'civilization' bent to it.
21:25:28  <DDR> That is, progress through the ages.
21:25:30  <Alberth> escape from the planet :)
21:25:44  <DDR> You got that in Sim Earth.
21:26:22  <Alberth> lincity had it too, at least as one of the options to end the game
21:26:24  <Gallomimia> open source principles for privacy and security concerns, openness and freedom and learning........ NO! I want remakes of old games ><
21:26:54  <Alberth> I learn remaking old games :p
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21:28:04  <Gallomimia> yeah i would too if playing them wasn't so fun and distracting :P
21:28:16  <andythenorth> airport limits are totally boring
21:28:53  <andythenorth> where's the off switch?
21:28:56  <Rubidium_> Alberth: learn or teach?
21:28:59  <Gallomimia> i'm searching for the helicopter so i can send those to the oil platforms and pick up the mail and workers
21:29:21  <Gallomimia> Rubidium_: the best way to learn is to teach
21:30:05  <Alberth> a bit of both, probably :)
21:30:19  <andythenorth> helistation is awesome
21:30:25  <Gallomimia> no helicopters :( perhaps you guys know an expansion?
21:30:34  <Gallomimia> they graphically have helipads on them. the oilrigs that is
21:30:46  <Alberth> the game should have them
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21:31:14  <andythenorth> what year?
21:31:29  <Alberth>  near the bottom of the list
21:31:39  <andythenorth> frosch123 how is health of ship smoke patch? o_O
21:31:55  <Gallomimia> i'm at year 2048 in my game right now
21:33:36  <andythenorth> ooh a big ship
21:33:44  <andythenorth> I shouldn't be so surprised
21:33:47  <andythenorth> I made the grf :P
21:34:04  <frosch123> hmm, i coded that last year? didn't i?
21:34:12  <Alberth> likely :)
21:34:18  <frosch123> there was always something other important :p
21:34:29  <frosch123> but i needed to split/cleanup the first patch of it
21:35:15  <andythenorth> frosch123: if you add it, I can add smoke support for it to Squid :)
21:35:20  <andythenorth> that will keep me quiet for a day or so...
21:35:31  <Gallomimia> alright here's a a pertinent question... what determine's a (example steel mill) firm's capacity or demand for raw materials? there's two close by and i wonder if one will eat up all the ore
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21:35:51  <andythenorth> does your station cover both?
21:35:58  <Gallomimia> no two different stations
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21:36:24  <andythenorth> if each station only covers one mill, then there is no capacity or demand in the default game
21:36:31  <andythenorth> unless you enabled cargo distribution
21:36:32  <Rubidium_> IIRC a steel mill can handle about 24.000 a month
21:36:39  <andythenorth> oh yeah, there's a hard limit :)
21:36:42  <Rubidium_> (a normal one)
21:36:44  <andythenorth> for the insane :P
21:36:46  <Gallomimia> that's a ton.
21:36:54  <andythenorth> some people reach it
21:37:10  <Gallomimia> i'll certainly need to look for more mines...
21:39:08  <Gallomimia> last question. is there any intermodal transport? how does transfer work? can i build a big depot for stuff to get dropped at and transfered to another train of the same type?
21:40:49  <frosch123>
21:40:59  <cib> Is there a simpler way to mod stuff like vehicle stats, cargo transportation prices and similar core settings, without going through the whole ".hex" aka grf stuff? I've honestly had more success modding games with their entire content defined as macros in huge .cpp files, than to figure out this grf stuff, and that's saying something.
21:41:40  <frosch123> there is the "basecost mod" ready for all price stuff
21:41:44  <frosch123> and there is "nml"
21:42:22  <Eddi|zuHause>
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21:43:20  <frosch123> and well, i you want to go singleplayer, you can still edit the source for the default vehicles
21:43:26  <DDR> Gallomimia: You can "transfer" the cargo off something at a station, and then that station has the cargo as if it were recieved from an industry.
21:43:33  <Gallomimia> neat thanks frosch123
21:43:56  <Gallomimia> yeah DDR it works like i imagined. i'm impressed :)
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21:44:02  <DDR> To do intermodal, either build the two modes of transport in the same station, by placing the tiles next to eachother, or maybe hold ctrl for the station dialog.
21:44:07  <Gallomimia> if i can afford more trains in this game i might get myself a depot
21:44:20  <Gallomimia> station dialog?
21:44:31  <cib> NML seems promising, but I haven't been able to find some useful reference documentation for it. A tutorial is nice, but doesn't help you with doing things not outlined in that tutorial.
21:45:02  <DDR> There was a setting, at least a while back, for detached stations. If you held ctrl, I think, you could choose which station to attach the new station tiles to.
21:45:05  <andythenorth> NML docs are there
21:45:15  <andythenorth> you just have to figure out the navigation ;)
21:45:17  <DDR> For example, you could have bus depots on one side of the road, and a train station on the other.
21:45:26  <Gallomimia> cib the nice thing about an open/volunteer organization making a product like this is that you can help build that documentation by outlining all the things you want to know then writing it as you find out by asking questions :)
21:47:22  <Alberth> cib:  bottom of the right blue column
21:48:17  <cib> Well, main reason I'm asking is I found this: and this:
21:48:53  <cib> That seems a much more convenient approach to scripting the game, and I was wondering if something like that existed for modifying said vehicle stats, prices, etc.
21:49:28  <andythenorth> nope
21:49:34  <Xaroth|Work> ^
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21:50:32  <cib> Is there a fundamental reason for that, or is it just a matter of writing the appropriate wrappers?
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21:51:09  <Xaroth|Work> technically, it's more than doable to put it all in nuts
21:51:25  <Xaroth|Work> but historically, newgrfs started out in ttdpatch (iirc)
21:51:30  <Xaroth|Work> and openttd adopted it
21:51:47  <andythenorth> electrify!
21:52:20  <Alberth> nogo is for writing computer players, Gamescripts for "world control" (scenarios with triggers), and newgrf for concrete game things such as vehicles and industries
21:53:02  <Alberth> they exist and operate at different levels
21:54:37  <cib> "world control" seems limited when you can't even control how much an industry is paying for transporting their goods =)
21:54:57  <cib> But then, I have only a user's POV on the game.
21:55:08  <Xaroth|Work> world control is done by the server
21:55:13  <Xaroth|Work> newgrf changes the 'game rules'
21:55:25  <Xaroth|Work> all clients need the same newgrf set as the server
21:55:29  <andythenorth> these electric trains are not that fast
21:55:33  <Xaroth|Work> whereas only the server requires the ai or nogo scripts
21:55:35  <andythenorth> 6,400hp, 155mph
21:55:40  <Alberth> andythenorth: add mooaar
21:55:41  <andythenorth> but they take a long time to accelerate
21:55:45  <andythenorth> maybe 2?
21:55:54  <Alberth> at least, maybe 5 :)
21:55:54  <Gallomimia> what the heck. i thought i turned breakdowns off?
21:56:02  <andythenorth> someone should do consist management :P
21:56:13  <Alberth> dont?  :)
21:56:13  <Gallomimia> oops :O
21:56:46  <Alberth> Gallomimia: setting it from the main menu (intro screen) has no effect when you load a game
21:57:02  <Alberth> a game has its own settings (except for a few)
21:57:15  <Alberth> you have to change them from in-game
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21:59:07  <Gallomimia> yeah i'm not sure what happened. i changed it on my last game. i figured it would be the same for a new game. and there haven't been any noticable breakdowns yet. guess maglev is just stronger
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21:59:47  <Gallomimia> now about the tunnels and bridges. can a tunnel go under a little stream?
22:00:35  <Xaroth|Work> if the tunnel started on a level below said little stream, yes
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22:03:05  <frosch123> Xaroth|Work: that main difference between newgrf and squirrel is, that squirrel is always asynchronous and is limited to network bandwidth. newgrf otoh are limited in storage and interaction
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22:04:03  <Xaroth|Work> frosch123: that too
22:04:54  <frosch123> so neither are capable of doing the job of the other one
22:05:28  <Gallomimia> so when i see tunnels that are depressed in the ground in the examples of cloverleaves... are those dug using the landscape tool?
22:06:09  <Xaroth|Work> the entrance/exit, yes
22:06:14  <Xaroth|Work> the tunnel itself with the tunnel obviously
22:06:19  <frosch123> yes, use the lower tool and drag it along one edge
22:06:29  <cib> Hm.. I've definitely seen town populations shrink in the game. Is there a way to make a town shrink using gamescript?
22:06:54  <frosch123> dragging the lower tool lowers all selected corners to one level below the starting corner
22:07:10  <Eddi|zuHause> cib: shrink a town by destroying a house
22:07:11  <frosch123> cib: bulldoze houses
22:07:35  <frosch123> but generally towns shrink when houses are replaced with fountains and statues
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22:07:56  <cib> You can bulldoze houses from gamescript?
22:08:20  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
22:08:30  <cib> That's nifty.
22:08:59  <frosch123> well, not really
22:09:34  <frosch123> bulldozing is currently limited to companies, for some reason
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22:09:45  <frosch123> but a gs can bulldoze a tile in behalf of any existing company
22:09:57  <frosch123> as long as that company has good enough rating
22:10:36  <frosch123> (i.e. a gs can ruin a company)
22:10:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i was under impression that GS can also run commands as "world" owner
22:10:59  <Eddi|zuHause> not just as a company
22:11:07  <frosch123> not all, just some
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22:11:22  <frosch123> actually very few
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22:21:02  <andythenorth> when will rivers regenerate? o_O
22:27:40  <frosch123> type "restart rivers" in the console
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22:35:24  <Eddi|zuHause> is that a real thing?
22:35:54  <andythenorth> try it ;)
22:36:02  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like something that just starst a new game :p
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22:38:13  <Gallomimia> with lots of rivers :)
22:39:00  <Gallomimia> is there anything that will tell me how "full" my vehicles get on a typical trip? what's the best way to guage whether my transport network is running at capacity and i should add vehicles?
22:44:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Gallomimia: if you have cargo distribution enabled (in 1.4.0) there is a graph that shows how overloaded your transport links are
22:45:11  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise it's not easy to calculate, so the game does not do it for you
22:45:55  <Eddi|zuHause> in general, look at the stockpile and the station rating of your stations
22:46:00  <Gallomimia> cargo.... distribution
22:46:11  <Eddi|zuHause> if high stockpile, add more vehicles
22:46:16  <Eddi|zuHause> if low rating, add more vehicles
22:46:19  <Flygon> It's basically a method of driving you nuts as commuters jam your buses and trams over capacity
22:46:20  <Gallomimia> station rating is a mystery to me. but i've been watching the stockpile as a general guideline
22:46:29  <Flygon> And you literally can't run more buses or trams :P
22:46:48  <Eddi|zuHause> station rating is mostly how often a vehicle appears at the station
22:46:52  <andythenorth> hmm
22:46:53  <Gallomimia> Flygon: Eddi|zuHause is it an addon or an option?
22:47:04  <andythenorth> sometimes it would be nice to be able to bin a cargo from a station
22:47:05  <Flygon> In 1.4.0? An option
22:47:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Gallomimia: it's an option in 1.4.0-beta, but not in 1.3.3
22:47:24  <Gallomimia> ah. it looks like i'm running 1.3
22:47:36  <Gallomimia> 1.3.1 :/ odd that
22:48:02  <Eddi|zuHause> distributions often don't update their repositories
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22:52:11  <Flygon> I still can't take the word repository seriously ever since Tony Abbott coined "Suppository of Knowledge"
22:52:37  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea who or what that is
22:53:14  <Flygon> Currently? Australia's Prime Minister
22:53:19  <andythenorth> bye
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22:53:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose i knew that once and filed it under "completely irrelevant information"
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22:55:17  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, looks like the invasion has started...
22:57:22  <Flygon> Probably because he's an awful PM
22:57:48  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: that's your problem, not mine :p
22:58:03  <Flygon> It'll be yours when he somehow engages Nuclear War with Indonesia
22:58:06  <Flygon> D:
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23:09:21  <Flygon> I forgot how painful building railroads in mountains is
23:09:29  <Flygon> Esp. double track
23:09:53  <frosch123> i thought that is the best part
23:10:07  <Flygon> It looks awesome in the end
23:10:10  <Flygon> But it's still tedious :P
23:11:15  <Eddi|zuHause> the biggest pain of that is that you can't terraform a railway bank without affecting half the map
23:11:38  <Eddi|zuHause> plus the lack of diagonal inclinations
23:11:50  <Flygon> Exactly
23:12:00  <Flygon> Diagonal inclinations lacking are the most annoying part
23:12:54  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't see a sensible way to implement them. diagonals would be twice as steep
23:13:14  <Eddi|zuHause> you get glitches at tile edges and stuff
23:13:34  <Eddi|zuHause> so you'd need something that stretches two or three tiles
23:13:44  <Flygon> Could always build a seperate game that's basically a 3D sandpit that avoids the issues 2D has
23:13:47  <Flygon> But that'd be difficult
23:14:24  <Eddi|zuHause> the forums are filled with the bodies of people who tried and failed :p
23:14:43  <Flygon> Indeed
23:16:55  <Flygon> Hmmmm
23:17:04  <Flygon> I might just have to use a shuttle bus
23:17:13  <Flygon> To get passengers to the railway station
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23:18:25  <Wolf01> 'night all
23:18:29  <Flygon> Yota
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23:43:04  <DDR> Flygon: See for my attempt.
23:43:35  <Flygon> I gotta stop reading that as QUBE Trains
23:43:38  <DDR> It kind of turned into a puzzle game, though.
23:43:50  <Flygon>
23:44:10  <DDR> Ah, yes.
23:44:30  <Flygon> Either way, looks rather interesting :3
23:46:26  <DDR> I, myself, eventually aim to put trains in more than a 3D sandbox - a mandelbulb-based voxel map could be fairly interesting, no?
23:46:37  <Flygon> Mandelbulb?
23:47:02  <DDR> mandelbulb
23:47:08  <DDR> aarg,
23:47:23  <Flygon> Oooooooooooh
23:47:25  <Flygon> Oh wow o.o!
23:47:53  <NGC3982> DDR: You need a faster server.
23:48:06  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, fractals look amazing
23:48:09  <DDR> This one's just github static pages.
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23:49:56  <DDR> The immeadiate problem is that I don't really math at this level, and that the especially interesting bits of the mandelbulb are spread far apart and at different zooms.
23:51:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm currently fiddling with more "discrete" fractals. ones you can produce with finite automata
23:52:47  <Eddi|zuHause> they don't look as pretty
23:53:31  <frosch123> night
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23:56:44  <DDR> Interesting videos near the end, here.
23:57:29  <DDR> Watching fractals morph in 3D always makes me feel like I've come across something scarily mouldy in the back of my fridge.
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23:58:59  <DDR> (video 2)

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