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00:00:54 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-168-244-115.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Herp derp] 00:07:20 *** cib [~cib@p20030067CE0E5A01267703FFFEE75B84.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:46 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-168-244-115.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 00:08:47 <Gallomimia> :O why come i not hear of oftc before?? 00:10:34 <__ln__> you mean "how come" 00:11:41 <Gallomimia> indeed, but i said it that way to express exasperation and shock and surprize and squeee 00:20:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B6E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:56 <Wolf01> 'night 00:24:04 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:25:19 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-150-31-84.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:26:39 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:27:33 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:13:09 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:17:19 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.96.9] has joined #openttd 01:24:11 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 01:35:33 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.96.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:35:51 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.96.9] has joined #openttd 01:36:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A6FE.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 01:41:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6A6FE.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:44:42 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3A46.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 01:48:55 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:35 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.96.9] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 02:13:14 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:27:41 *** Aristide [~quassel@ALyon-156-1-159-218.w90-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:52 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-13-254.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:43:38 <Flygon> Am I the only person that finds it difficult to do urban expansion in areas that are also scitter scattered with freight railway lines? 03:03:35 <Gallomimia> i'm sure i would find it difficult if i kinda knew what that meant 03:08:05 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 03:09:46 <Flygon> I'll have to send a .sav :P 03:09:57 <Flygon> Basically: Make cities bigger while having integrated transport 03:10:38 *** LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has joined #openttd 03:10:38 *** LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has quit [] 03:20:18 *** Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:29:18 <Flygon> I never thought I'd consider replacing Rail with Road to alleviate rail congestion for freight vs passenger 03:40:14 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.96.9] has joined #openttd 03:43:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A6FE.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:44:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A6FE.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 03:52:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A6FE.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:59:04 <Gallomimia> that's pretty much the reason i played simcity2k with subways right from the off 04:06:31 <Flygon> Unfortunately 04:06:36 <Flygon> OTTD lacks such flexible subways 04:06:38 <Flygon> If it had them 04:06:42 <Flygon> This would be INFINITELY easier 04:32:52 *** Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 04:34:05 *** Djohaal_ [~Djohaal@189.58.0.15.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 04:34:09 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.0.15.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:42:10 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Quit: That's all folks!] 05:15:31 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-168-244-115.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:18:38 *** Djohaal_ [~Djohaal@189.58.0.15.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:43:29 *** killertester [~igor@pppoe-77-75-9-51.ppp.kmv.ru] has joined #openttd 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67091.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC662BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:07:02 *** Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:42:35 *** Afdal [~chatzilla@host-174-45-212-205.chy-wy.client.bresnan.net] has joined #openttd 06:42:47 <Afdal> Thanks for the 4096-tile map support guys <3 06:43:54 *** Afdal [~chatzilla@host-174-45-212-205.chy-wy.client.bresnan.net] has left #openttd [] 06:50:49 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has joined #openttd 07:13:59 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.96.9] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:15:54 <Flygon> I'm with Afdal 07:16:14 <Flygon> Now if I didn't somehow find a way to be forced to couple multiple UP 4000's together D: 07:33:55 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.96.191] has joined #openttd 07:36:20 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.96.191] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36:32 *** Japa [~Japa@117.214.0.14] has joined #openttd 07:59:51 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:22:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A184F4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:32:30 <peter1139> I never played with 1024 or 2048 maps, heh... 08:41:12 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:44:15 *** safridzal [~Aragorn@202.43.95.69] has joined #openttd 08:49:20 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 08:50:19 *** Aristide [~quassel@ALyon-156-1-159-218.w90-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:58:29 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:980:272e:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 08:58:32 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:11:52 <Gallomimia> what an odd evening... fell asleep at 8pm and woke up at 12:30am :/ 09:14:23 <Gallomimia> hey Flygon how fast is the cpu in the computer you use to play ottd? i've been thinking a lot on how you managed to overpower it with a .sav and many thousands of vehicles 09:14:33 <Flygon> 1.6GHz Dual Core 09:14:39 <Flygon> Core 2 Duo 09:14:46 <Gallomimia> that's the speed of my laptop too 09:15:22 <Gallomimia> i've been reading some source files. i see that there's some .cpp file regarding threads. but yet i don't ever see ottd use more than one core 09:16:05 <Flygon> Yeah 09:16:10 <Flygon> It doesn't 09:17:32 <Gallomimia> can't be that hard to get it to multicore when it's so many independent calculations 09:17:51 <Rubidium_> not again... 09:18:12 <Gallomimia> only time i've seen it hit 100% on mine was for map gen. that would be hard to get it to multicore on 09:18:12 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:18:14 <Gallomimia> again? 09:18:30 <Flygon> The whole multicore debate 09:18:38 <Gallomimia> nice :) 09:18:42 <Flygon> They're sick of users asking for multithreaded support 09:18:48 <Flygon> Due to it being genuinely painful to implement 09:18:54 <Gallomimia> i'm not asking... 09:18:57 <Flygon> The genre isn't conductive to it :P 09:19:16 <Rubidium_> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=37064&p=682861&hilit=multithread#p682861 09:19:26 <Rubidium_> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=47238&p=1062679&hilit=multithread#p1062679 09:19:33 <Flygon> Sidenote: Over 90% of Mega Drive games are technically multithreaded :B 09:19:50 <Flygon> (though, the Z80's usually just stuffed onto handling the sound driver instead of doing anything else) 09:20:07 <Gallomimia> sweet 09:20:12 <Gallomimia> ohh damn. more than one thread? 09:20:32 <Rubidium_> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=37064&p=1000293&hilit=thread#p1000293 09:20:57 <Rubidium_> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=37064&p=999891&hilit=thread#p999891 09:22:15 *** LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has joined #openttd 09:22:47 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:25:52 <Rubidium_> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=63159&p=1052623&hilit=cargo+station#p1052623 09:26:18 <Rubidium_> that's why I said "not again..." 09:26:38 <Rubidium_> and there's probably more, but this is the stuff I could find from myself in the forum in 5 minutes 09:26:55 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.111.162] has joined #openttd 09:26:56 <Gallomimia> oh man definitely stop bothering to search for it >< 09:27:38 *** killertester [~igor@pppoe-77-75-9-51.ppp.kmv.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:28:03 <Rubidium_> and the wiki: http://wiki.openttd.org/Rejected_features#Multithread.2FMulticore_support 09:28:41 <Rubidium_> having said that, there's plenty that already happens in separate cores 09:28:59 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.214.0.124] has joined #openttd 09:29:41 <Rubidium_> (sound, music, palette animation, pushing images to the video card, saving, cargo distribution calculations, network lookups) 09:30:23 <peter1139> 09:17 < Gallomimia> can't be that hard to get it to multicore when it's so many independent calculations 09:30:30 <peter1139> ^ they're not independent... 09:31:03 <Flygon> I did just try saying that :P 09:32:56 *** Japa [~Japa@117.214.0.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:34:37 <Gallomimia> shhhh reading 09:35:11 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.111.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:35:14 <Gallomimia> "Or, to put it another way, one woman can make one baby in nine months, but nine women cannot make a baby in one month." <----- :) 09:35:27 *** Progman [~progman@p57A184F4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36:40 * Flygon thinks 09:36:42 <Flygon> Well 09:36:46 <Flygon> Depends on the species 09:37:01 <Gallomimia> cite example please :O 09:37:13 <Flygon> Can't, it's #openttd 09:37:31 <Gallomimia> are any of them real or are they some kind of furry? 09:37:41 *** LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37:50 <Flygon> I don't know! :O 09:37:58 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.214.0.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:15 <Gallomimia> i thought the word "women" limited it pretty strongly to one species anyway 09:38:19 *** LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has joined #openttd 09:38:35 <Flygon> Yes, but uuuuuh... 09:38:43 <Flygon> Ever seen Star Trek? 09:38:49 <Flygon> Klingon Woman! 09:39:06 <Gallomimia> yes i have. but a fantasy nonetheless 09:39:43 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.96.44] has joined #openttd 09:40:08 <Rubidium_> Flygon: Klingon females 09:40:52 <Gallomimia> he's got a point ya know. i don't think i've ever heard klingons or ferengi refer to the other half of their species as "women" 09:41:17 *** safridzal [~Aragorn@202.43.95.69] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:41:46 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.97.160] has joined #openttd 09:43:15 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.109.154] has joined #openttd 09:43:17 <Gallomimia> anyway, i've finished reading what i'm gonna read and come to the conclusion that there's a different issue that i'd rather pay attention to: desync. why are the client and the server BOTH making the same calculations regarding pathfinding? why is it even possible for them to come up with a different answer? 09:43:44 <Rubidium_> the answer of the latter is: because of a bug 09:44:07 <Rubidium_> the answer to the former is: how much upload bandwidth do you have? 09:45:19 <Rubidium_> the state changes quite significantly every tick. Basically all vehicles change every tick, and then there's the map that goes through changes too 09:45:50 <Gallomimia> that's a lot of game-state data i guess 09:45:53 <Rubidium_> sending those differences will be more taxing than just keeping the state at both sides 09:46:11 <Xaroth|Work> more taxing in such a way that your pr0n streams will stutter if they didn't do it that way 09:46:13 <Gallomimia> can you guestimate how much data goes into a standard game state? 09:48:00 <Gallomimia> if it's taken that long the answer's no. i'll worry about it another day 09:48:12 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.96.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:48:32 <Rubidium_> number of map tiles * 9 + number of vehicles (that is wagons/engines/trucks/smoke plumes) * at least 100 09:48:38 <Rubidium_> +bytes 09:48:44 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.106.190] has joined #openttd 09:49:51 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.97.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:49:57 <Gallomimia> just over one tick per second? 09:50:17 <Gallomimia> yeah that's pretty serious 09:50:31 <Rubidium_> well, the compressed game state (without caches) is the size of your savegame 09:51:10 <Gallomimia> oh. that helps a lot 09:51:21 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.109.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:51:23 <Gallomimia> 6M for an extra large map having very few vehicles 09:53:17 <Alberth> make a smaller map :) 09:53:47 <Gallomimia> no the point is to consider the largest size of map. i heard 4x larger is available now? 09:54:17 <Gallomimia> the map i am playing si 2048 square, they can be 4096 now? 09:55:33 <Gallomimia> that's ~160MB just for the map tiles 09:55:38 <Rubidium_> Gallomimia: in openttd.cfg change/set the savegame_format setting to none. Then it will store savegames uncompressed, and you could try to make a binary diff 09:56:11 <Gallomimia> i'm just tossing numbers around for considering the problems i've mentioned 09:56:28 <Rubidium_> @calc 4096*4096*9/1024/1024 09:56:28 <DorpsGek> Rubidium_: 144 09:57:00 <Gallomimia> i think i need pizza.... then some breaking bad, then some ttd (as a player) 09:57:34 <Gallomimia> and a monster drink! 09:57:42 <Gallomimia> and i like your calc bot :) 09:58:43 <Flygon> I want Pizza now 09:59:12 <Gallomimia> yeah i gotta go buy it :/ back in 20 10:01:54 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.98.144.47] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC, the first and unique irc client approved by the Norwegian Royal Family! (www.adiirc.com)] 10:06:42 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: have you tried HEQS trams for freight transport? 10:25:17 <Flygon> Nope 10:26:10 <Flygon> Kinda wish I had used them 10:26:36 <Flygon> Do they cooperate well with eGVTR...iknowistuffedtheacronymupsofarbutthefinalletteris-S? 10:27:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 10:28:44 <Flygon> Awesome 10:28:47 <Flygon> Thanks! 10:29:02 <__ln__> http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/02/world/europe/ukraine-politics/index.html 10:29:05 <Flygon> Dunno why I wasn't using them x.x 10:29:36 <Flygon> And I know people'll give me crap over adding a GRF to an existing game. I know the risks. I already buggered up the start of the game anyway due to starting in 1950 instead of 1850... 10:30:04 <Flygon> Luckily the rollback worked there.... shame about not having 100 years worth of fully functioning financial reports tho :p 10:30:06 <Flygon> 1943 atm 10:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Gallomimia: well of course the multithread discussion is in multiple threads. :p 10:33:41 <Alberth> distributed decision algorithms are very complicated :p 10:34:08 <SpComb^> openttd cluster edition 10:35:19 <SpComb^> and if you run it on ten very expensive machines with dedicated infiniband interconnects, you might get close to the performance of a single machine with the non-parallel implementation? 10:36:20 <Eddi|zuHause> well there were mild multithread tests in the past, which ran like 20% faster on multicore and 10% slower on single core 10:36:20 <Alberth> better run 10 independent instances on those machines, much easier :) 10:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause> which at that time was decided not worth the hassle 10:38:36 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, to get useful multithreading you probably have to write the program from scratch 10:39:08 <Xaroth|Work> would be a fun project 10:39:11 <Xaroth|Work> .. to watch 10:40:02 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.96.166] has joined #openttd 10:40:18 <Gallomimia> bah. no pizza :( 10:40:28 <Flygon> Yep, those Trams have helped a lot :) 10:40:32 <Flygon> Kicking the Trucks butt! 10:46:11 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.106.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:48:24 *** LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:50:14 *** killertester [~igor@pppoe-77-75-11-183.ppp.kmv.ru] has joined #openttd 10:51:17 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009a95.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:56:42 * Gallomimia needs a bookmark for watching videos 10:57:05 * Alberth adds a mark to a book, and gives it to Gallomimia 11:15:23 <Gallomimia> finally found out why things weren't making sense in this series 11:16:58 <Alberth> :) 11:17:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i move videos to a different folder after i watched them 11:18:26 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:25:34 <frosch123> hmm, is that rewboss guy (who seems to be linked quite often here lately) from my town? 11:26:17 <Gallomimia> that's a pretty good idea. i have a few too many videos. and i like to maintain a library rather than just download for personal use. sharing is my game 11:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know your town... 11:29:57 <Eddi|zuHause> but from what i understood he lives somewhere outside aschaffenburg 11:34:42 *** TheSteve1s [~lachlan@14-200-254-27.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:35:26 <frosch123> yeah, exactly :p 11:36:31 *** TheStevens [~lachlan@14-200-254-27.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:39:45 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:42:47 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:42:51 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 12:07:36 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C368E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:08:33 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:53 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 12:14:01 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:14:45 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 12:16:21 *** Devroush [~dennis@109.130.56.34] has joined #openttd 12:26:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B374.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:34:20 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:52 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has joined #openttd 12:40:19 *** Gallomimia [~gallo@S0106c8fb26452633.ca.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:39 *** Gallomimia [~gallo@S0106c8fb26452633.ca.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 12:49:07 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 12:50:32 *** killertester [~igor@pppoe-77-75-11-183.ppp.kmv.ru] has left #openttd [] 12:57:49 *** Aristide [~quassel@ALyon-156-1-159-218.w90-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:21:49 *** Devroush [~dennis@109.130.56.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:42:49 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:43:41 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [] 13:50:38 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:04:12 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host58-55-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 14:04:16 <Wolf01> moin 14:10:05 <Alberth> o/ 14:18:26 <Eddi|zuHause> "Founding of Russia's Black Sea fleet in Sewastopol: 13th May 1783. Official acknowledgement of independence of the USA: 3rd September 1783" 14:22:32 <frosch123> britain was scared of the black sea fleet? 14:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly :p 14:24:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i might be misremembering this, but weren't there plans to move the fleet away from Sewastopol? 14:25:06 <frosch123> well, ask andy 14:25:15 <frosch123> i guess they need to be river ships to be able to 14:25:30 <Eddi|zuHause> not north, east :p 14:58:55 *** rubenwardy [~rubenward@host86-147-244-73.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:00:20 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-168-244-115.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 15:13:17 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:15:23 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@2.81.18.221] has joined #openttd 15:15:24 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B374.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:39:19 *** Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 15:45:02 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:47:06 <__ln__> https://twitter.com/crusoes/status/440036175512756224/photo/1 15:53:25 *** Devroush2 [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> what works for venezuela can't be wrong for ukraine 16:01:09 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:14:12 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.ibash.de/zitat_57471.html 16:21:59 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.0.15.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 16:43:01 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:59 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has joined #openttd 17:00:39 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.111.177] has joined #openttd 17:03:22 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@2.81.18.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:05:40 *** Elukka 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has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:21:09 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 18:21:21 *** MJP_ [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 18:26:37 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.98.181] has joined #openttd 18:28:42 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:29:19 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 18:29:39 *** MJP_ [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:32:34 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.102.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:56 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.98.190] has joined #openttd 18:37:58 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.98.181] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:45 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.98.172] has joined #openttd 18:49:20 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.102.219] has joined #openttd 18:54:22 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.98.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:54:58 *** TheDude [~Miranda@ip-89-176-28-82.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:55:31 <TheDude> hello 18:55:37 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.98.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:56:16 <Alberth> o/ 18:56:34 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.96.192] has joined #openttd 18:56:35 <TheDude> I'd like to ask, is it ok, that when I pause game with game script in single player, I cant unpause it by normal means ? 18:57:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is intended 18:57:36 <TheDude> raelly? but why? what if user wants to continue? 18:57:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the game script must handle that in some way 18:58:07 <Alberth> why do you pause the game in such a case then? 18:58:54 <TheDude> hm, good question, I wanted to gain user's attention, but yes, it can be drew other way 18:58:55 <Eddi|zuHause> the game has 3 pause conditions: player, network and script. only all three unpaused will unpause the game 18:59:14 <Eddi|zuHause> "network" usually meaning "number of players" 18:59:15 <TheDude> it just surprised me 19:00:41 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.102.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:01:38 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.98.55] has joined #openttd 19:05:35 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.97.201] has joined #openttd 19:07:38 <frosch123> gs pauses is intended to be only released by gs 19:08:04 <frosch123> though the gs needs to be careful to not deadlock itself (fs#5283) 19:08:11 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.96.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:11:46 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.98.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:16:17 *** bialasik [~bialasik@178235025002.wroclaw.vectranet.pl] has joined #openttd 19:16:37 <bialasik> Hello, anybody can help me? 19:17:10 <bialasik> i have problems with newgrfs on my dedicated server 19:18:01 <frosch123> if you copied the config file, make sure there is the correct path separator in the config file 19:18:04 <frosch123> \ vs / 19:18:24 <TinoDidriksen> Or just always use / since that works on all platforms. 19:18:41 <bialasik> when I do content download after select 19:18:51 <bialasik> and I activate it in http://5.175.169.89/opentede/index.php 19:19:12 <bialasik> after server restarting config's chmod is 664 19:19:13 <frosch123> if you do content download via console, you also need to "rescannewgrf" 19:19:21 <bialasik> umm 19:20:53 <bialasik> it doesn't change anything 19:21:31 <bialasik> i have some newgrf's whose I download with content update, content state, content select and content download 19:21:57 <bialasik> when I download some newgrf, it appears on my web interface 19:22:25 <bialasik> when I add it on webinterface and when I save it, it looks ok on web interface 19:22:49 <bialasik> but when I restart the server, my config's chmod changing 19:22:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:23:05 <bialasik> and newgrfs are disabling 19:23:20 <bialasik> any ideas? 19:23:52 <frosch123> do you change the config while the server is running? 19:23:58 <frosch123> then it likely overwrites it when existing 19:24:18 <frosch123> you can do "reloadconfig" via console to reload the config without exiting the server 19:24:27 <frosch123> or you can pass a command line paramter to never write the config 19:24:32 <bialasik> ok, wait, i'll try this 19:24:46 <andythenorth> o/ 19:25:00 <Alberth> o/ 19:25:09 <bialasik> reloadconfig ERROR: command not found 19:25:21 <bialasik> my ottd: 1.3.3 19:26:52 <frosch123> ah, i see. it's no command, but a setting 19:27:14 <bialasik> what can I do? 19:27:14 <frosch123> so either enable the "reload_cfg" setting which reloads the config when starting a new game 19:27:34 <bialasik> where can I find this? 19:27:48 <bialasik> ok, i got this 19:28:31 <frosch123> or use command line option "-x" to not save on exit 19:28:32 *** Streemo [~oftc-webi@158.37.105.188] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:29:54 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.61.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:39 <bialasik> ok, with -x my config's chmod doesnt broke up 19:30:48 <bialasik> but my newgrfs doesnt working 19:31:33 <bialasik> http://5.175.169.89/opentede/index.php look at [newgrfs] section, I must write something on the form next to newgrf/Polish_PKP_Set_2.0-2.0.8/pkp-set-2.0.8.grf = ? 19:32:27 <frosch123> no "newgrf" 19:32:29 <Alberth> games that you load have their own set of newgrfs 19:32:33 <frosch123> you give the path inside the tar 19:33:02 <andythenorth> hmm 19:33:26 <andythenorth> I want to start my truck set :( 19:33:31 <frosch123> do "tar -tf Polish_PKP_Set_2.0-2.0.8.tar" 19:33:31 <andythenorth> but the rules say no 19:33:43 <frosch123> andythenorth: start a game instead? 19:33:50 <bialasik> where, in this form? 19:33:56 <bialasik> in console, in ssh? 19:33:58 <Alberth> build a truck from lego? 19:34:01 <frosch123> ssh 19:34:07 <bialasik> okay 19:34:17 <frosch123> it lists the content of the tar 19:34:22 <frosch123> so you can tell the path inside the tar 19:34:36 * andythenorth just saw the Lego movie 19:34:50 <frosch123> anyway, it would be way easier if you just prepare a save on your local computer, and upload it :p 19:34:56 <bialasik> I must go to /home/myusername/.openttd/(...), yes? 19:35:11 <frosch123> andythenorth: are you excited for the minecraft movie? 19:35:26 <frosch123> bialasik: yes, content_download/newgrf likely 19:35:29 <andythenorth> I wondered if one is coming :P 19:35:43 <andythenorth> I am a minecraft refusenik 19:35:50 <bialasik> okay, I've got Polish_PKP_Set_2.0-2.0.8/ Polish_PKP_Set_2.0-2.0.8/license.txt Polish_PKP_Set_2.0-2.0.8/pkp-set-2.0.8.grf Polish_PKP_Set_2.0-2.0.8/changelog.txt Polish_PKP_Set_2.0-2.0.8/readme.txt 19:35:52 <frosch123> i heard the lego movie can only be followed up by a minecraft movie 19:35:59 <andythenorth> that was a joke in our office too 19:36:17 <frosch123> bialasik: the ".grf" entry is what you need to put in the config, followed by a "=" 19:36:21 <TheDude> hi frosch123, I'd like to thank you for this (https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5786) finally , it is simply great 19:36:22 <andythenorth> anyway, I have a game running already right now 19:36:32 <andythenorth> but it needs trucks 19:36:44 <andythenorth> nothing wrong with eGRVTS, but, really, really used it a lot 19:36:54 <frosch123> TheDude: there is a fs task about some obiwan though :p 19:37:05 <frosch123> apparently the grow rates are off by one day or so 19:37:48 <TheDude> hm, I heard something about that, but I dont really know 19:38:09 <frosch123> it's the usual thing 19:38:09 <bialasik> frosch123: it doesn't work, in my web interface after "=" I add Polish_PKP_Set_2.0-2.0.8/pkp-set-2.0.8.grf 19:38:13 <frosch123> loops starting with 0 or 1 :p 19:38:35 <frosch123> "Polish_PKP_Set_2.0-2.0.8/pkp-set-2.0.8.grf=" is the complete row 19:38:42 <frosch123> you do not put anything behind the "=" 19:38:59 <frosch123> behind the "=" is for grf paramters 19:39:09 <frosch123> but better try with defaults first 19:39:10 <TheDude> I am now trying those new GS things, and there is one detail, when I set NORMAL_GROWTH, and the condition to grow is positive in GS, it is still possible that town wont grow because of missing service, and the problem is, I dont know how to tell GS that the town is not actually growing 19:39:18 <bialasik> but that was before 19:39:20 <bialasik> http://5.175.169.89/opentede/index.php 19:39:26 <bialasik> [newgrf] 19:39:27 <bialasik> newgrf/Polish_PKP_Set_2.0-2.0.8/pkp-set-2.0.8.grf = 19:39:53 <bialasik> and it doesn't work 19:39:59 <frosch123> no "newgrf/" 19:40:18 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.61.47] has joined #openttd 19:41:06 <bialasik> and I must have this newgrf on my client, yes? 19:41:21 <bialasik> it can't download automatically? 19:41:24 <frosch123> on the client you can still download it upon join 19:41:33 <frosch123> if it is on bananas 19:42:24 <bialasik> woow, it works! 19:42:33 <bialasik> thanks, frosch123! :) 19:42:55 <frosch123> yw, but i still think uploading a complete savegame would have been easier :p 19:53:38 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.61.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:39 <Alberth> TheDude: keep track of population through time? 19:55:51 <TheDude> hm, what do you mean? 19:56:14 <Alberth> query population eg every month 19:56:25 <TheDude> town is usually rebuilding houses on its own, houses took few months to complete 19:56:31 <Alberth> if the town grows, the number should become bigger 19:56:38 <TheDude> it is not really reliable 19:56:53 <TheDude> house count could be maybe better 19:58:18 <TheDude> but then, player could just demolish the house, and GS would be lost 19:58:52 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:58:55 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 19:59:45 <TheDude> some GS function like TownHasService would be cleaner, or it GSTown.GetGrowthRate returned some value like NO_SERVICE in addition to actual growth rate and TOWN_GROWTH_NONE 19:59:51 <TheDude> what do you think? 20:01:06 <Alberth> looks like a worse solution to me 20:01:20 <Alberth> what if the answer you get is not what you like? 20:02:03 <Alberth> now you can just program what you want to see as "growth", instead of being stuck with whatever gets implemented in those functions 20:02:48 <Alberth> maybe someone wants to count road tiles or so as value for "growth", with a builtin function that becomes impossible 20:04:11 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:05:30 <TheDude> yes, I want to program growth such, that when some cargo is delivered, town grows, with TOWN_GROWTH_NORMAL, which is normal growth without custom GS change 20:05:46 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.61.47] has joined #openttd 20:06:48 <TheDude> but when I deliver cargo, but town has no transport service, the town does not grow, and I dont know how to find out about that condition with GS 20:07:21 <frosch123> you could try ScriptTown::HasRating 20:07:42 <frosch123> it could tell you whether there has ever been service in the town 20:07:50 <frosch123> though it does not tell you whether there still is 20:08:04 <TheDude> it has also too much loose ends 20:08:25 <frosch123> or check for passenger transport or so 20:09:03 <TheDude> once there is service, it would have some rating, and I can judge, whether it goes up and down, but I would not know if that is because of existing service or because someone planted/cut trees 20:18:02 *** bialasik [~bialasik@178235025002.wroclaw.vectranet.pl] has left #openttd [] 20:18:31 <TheDude> or if station's property time_since_load/time_since_unload were readebla with GS, that would help to make that growth decision 20:20:38 <frosch123> was is your actual goal? 20:20:47 <frosch123> i mean why do you use GROWTH_NORMAL at all? 20:20:52 <frosch123> why not set the rate via gs? 20:21:20 <frosch123> s/was/what/ 20:25:27 <TheDude> there was some problem with grow counter, I had recreate some code from town_cmd into GS to make it work, and to grow town I used townExpand 20:26:55 <TheDude> and I still wanted to decide growth on existing service too, I wrote a function to simulate that, but it is not reliable, it only decides service on running existing running vehicles in stations that are in town zone, but it can be easily cheated 20:27:11 <TheDude> because the vehicle does not actually visit the station to be counted :-( 20:30:39 <TheDude> when I say growth rate e.g. 10, the town wont grow, because the grow counter stays high, if it was before set to growth_none 20:30:54 <TheDude> that's why I made that bug /request report 20:31:27 <frosch123> that's no longer the case 20:32:03 <TheDude> I am running GS on beta5 and it is still the case 20:32:24 <TheDude> hm, sorry, I read it wrong, it really grows 20:33:41 <TheDude> ok, nice, but if I'd wanted to use or recreate native growth mechanism, the service problem stays 20:34:24 <TheDude> I'd like to actually stick to native growth style, just to enable/disable it when town is supplied or not 20:35:23 <TheDude> it is of course possible, no problem to do that, but I am not able to retrive the real grow status, because of this service condition, which I cant get with GS now 20:36:53 <frosch123> well, then try to not replicate the original algorithm :p 20:37:06 <frosch123> i mean it's not like the original algorithm is particulary challenging or uncheatable 20:37:19 <frosch123> just build 5 bus stops and 1 bus, to get maximum rating 20:37:31 <frosch123> what's the point in replicating that? 20:40:02 <TheDude> it cant be replicated to 100%, original program needs that the vehicle has to visit the station, I cant replicate that 20:40:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i will somewhen create a growth script that only grows into areas that are serviced by a station 20:40:55 <TheDude> the point is to control growth with the new GROWTH_NORMAL and NONE, so I dont need to use any extra code 20:41:19 <TheDude> the game will feel just like normal town growing with the need to supply town to grow 20:41:39 <frosch123> well, and why do you need to know service-state then? 20:42:00 <Eddi|zuHause> TheDude: why can't that currently be done? 20:43:13 <TheDude> to tell user that town does not grow at the moment, come on, I already wrote that 20:43:51 <TheDude> because in openttd, the service is ok, when a vehicle visited a station 20:44:03 <frosch123> doesn't the towngui say that anyway? 20:44:14 <TheDude> GS has no functin to tell that, I can only get information, that some station has a running vehicle in its list 20:44:44 <TheDude> towngui is ok, but I cant adjust goal gui to that 20:44:57 <TheDude> user will see, town does not grow in town gui, but goal will say, hey I am growing 20:45:01 <TheDude> user will be confused 20:45:07 <TheDude> and will write me hatemail 20:45:44 <TheDude> I will be very unhappy on my birthday 20:45:49 <TheDude> and that is very unDude 20:46:36 <frosch123> maybe try to consider hatemails as something that pays you attention or so :p 20:47:40 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:39 <TheDude> very funny :-p 20:50:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't understand the problem 20:50:28 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 20:50:56 <TheDude> you can reread it again, if you'd like 20:51:29 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: he wants to replicate information from the town window to the goal window 20:51:29 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:31 <TheDude> so why does GSTown::GetGrowthRate returns a valid value, when town is not growing because of lack of service? 20:52:04 <frosch123> and wants to keep the original growth algorithm, but not the original growth condition 20:52:40 <TheDude> yes, as frosch says, but more precise it that I want to add new condition to original growth 20:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause> so: "if (condition) { normal } else { stop }" 20:53:24 <frosch123> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=69951 <- i explained the difference between rate and condition here 20:53:54 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the original algorithm allows conditions by cargo town effect 20:53:59 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has joined #openttd 20:54:02 <frosch123> but i think TheDude wants them per cargo type 20:54:21 <frosch123> gs allow using the original algorithm, or to replace it completely 20:54:22 <TheDude> yy, town effect is too limited 20:54:36 <TheDude> no, the only problem is gui problem in fact 20:54:38 <frosch123> but they do not easily allow any intermediate thingie 20:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> so your problem is that while in "normal" mode in above code, the GUI does not display what you want? 20:55:36 *** jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has joined #openttd 20:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise everything works correctly? 20:56:19 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.61.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:23 <TheDude> yy, exactly, the new features are excellent and works just fine 20:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so what's the difference between what you want to display and what it does display? 20:56:50 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-108-83.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 20:57:00 <TheDude> but the feedback I provide in goal gui can be misleading, in the condition when town does not grow because of service 20:57:16 <TheDude> that's the only condition I cant recognize with GS, so it has bad info 20:57:40 <TheDude> difference is: growing/not growing 21:01:38 <TheDude> now if I can find out that town is funded with GSTown.GetFundBuildingsDuration, it would be nice to find out also about service 21:02:14 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 21:02:56 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:03:49 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:04:49 <frosch123> night 21:04:52 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009a95.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:07:49 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:11:27 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:18:48 <Eddi|zuHause> TheDude: try www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/town_growth_script.diff 21:18:59 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.61.47] has joined #openttd 21:19:57 <Eddi|zuHause> TheDude: if that does what you desire, open a bug report with this file attached 21:26:56 *** Midnightmyth_ [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 21:30:07 <Eddi|zuHause> "US foreign minister John Kerry accuses Russia of invading countries for completely made up reasons" what was that story again with "weapons of mass destruction"? 21:31:11 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:31:41 <Alberth> more like mass delution :p 21:33:02 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.61.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:35 <andythenorth> it's ok when we do it 21:35:39 <andythenorth> just not when they do it 21:36:33 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.61.47] has joined #openttd 21:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause> well "we" did not do it :p 21:36:56 <Eddi|zuHause> (that one time at least :p) 21:37:13 <__ln__> in any case, the lying iraqi information minister remained an internet meme even after the weapons were not found... even though for all we know he was telling the truth. 21:37:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> there's this story that putin allegedly said: "well if i had invaded Iraq, i would have found the WMD" 21:38:59 <Eddi|zuHause> [meaning: i would have put some in to find] 21:42:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 21:43:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 21:52:05 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:980:272e:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 22:04:41 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 22:04:46 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.61.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:41 *** SpComb^ [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:07:59 *** Starlight [~chatzilla@148.80-202-82.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 22:19:12 *** Starlight [~chatzilla@148.80-202-82.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 22:19:17 <Wolf01> 'night 22:19:21 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:22:25 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C368E.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 22:36:32 *** Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:49:11 <TheDude> thanks Eddi|zuHause, it looks like it could be that simple 22:49:13 <TheDude> good night 22:49:31 *** TheDude [~Miranda@ip-89-176-28-82.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: bye] 22:53:19 *** JVassie [Mortelugo@cpc14-nmal18-2-0-cust85.19-2.cable.virginm.net] has 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