Log for #openttd on 8th March 2014:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:27  *** johnrambo [] has joined #openttd
00:07:03  *** spectator [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:26:10  *** NeuhNeuh [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has joined #openttd
00:27:58  *** Aristide [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:44:17  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
01:50:24  *** Flygon_ [] has joined #openttd
01:50:24  *** Flygon [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:52:55  *** Flygon [] has joined #openttd
01:52:55  *** Flygon_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:14:55  *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@] has joined #openttd
02:14:59  *** ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz
02:21:38  *** NeuhNeuh [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:30:09  *** Hazzard [] has joined #openttd
02:31:36  *** Japa [~Japa@] has joined #openttd
02:32:31  *** Pereba [~UserNick@] has joined #openttd
02:39:58  *** yorick [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:55:35  *** ChickeNES [] has joined #openttd
03:09:48  *** MJP [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:17:44  *** Midnightmyth [] has joined #openttd
03:45:33  *** ABCRic [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:49:53  *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
04:02:23  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
04:14:57  *** gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
04:17:48  *** Midnightmyth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:31:35  *** Japa_ [~Japa@] has joined #openttd
05:37:43  *** Japa [~Japa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:51:19  *** Phreeze [] has joined #openttd
05:56:01  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
05:56:15  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
06:35:52  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
06:37:15  <andythenorth> o/
06:40:23  *** Flygon [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:45:25  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
06:46:58  *** Flygon [] has joined #openttd
06:54:38  *** Elukka [] has joined #openttd
06:57:26  *** Hazzard [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
07:06:09  *** Supercheese [~Superchee@] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
07:11:41  *** wakou2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:12:09  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
07:38:15  *** Japa_ [~Japa@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:38:27  *** Japa_ [~Japa@] has joined #openttd
08:23:39  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
08:29:28  *** Pikka [] has joined #openttd
08:54:07  *** Pensacola [] has joined #openttd
08:54:44  <Phreeze> hm i wonder how running cost and purchase cost factors should be adopted in Newgrfs for trains e.g
08:55:18  <Phreeze> as i cant find information if model A is more costy than B ... i dont know how to set the values...gnaa.....
08:55:44  <Pikka> base it on date, power, speed, etc
08:56:20  <Pikka> TTD economics aren't "realistic". real costs and prices are neither here nor there.
08:56:25  <Phreeze> that's what i went for
08:57:27  *** Japa_ [~Japa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:00:07  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
09:01:08  <andythenorth> Pikka choo
09:01:31  <Pikka> andy bob
09:02:27  <Phreeze> choo choo
09:02:40  *** manu [] has joined #openttd
09:02:46  <Phreeze> Pikka from Australia ?
09:02:58  *** Japa [~Japa@] has joined #openttd
09:03:09  <andythenorth> I am avec le children right now, but I will try out your newfangled av8 later
09:03:25  <Pikka> o
09:03:28  <andythenorth> I am hoping frosch might make a new GS
09:03:41  <andythenorth> Silicon Valleys
09:03:45  <Pikka> there's not much to try out really. :D very basic.
09:03:49  <andythenorth> winner
09:03:51  <andythenorth> even better
09:03:54  <andythenorth> less is moar etc
09:04:23  <andythenorth> as long as there's a whirlybird with 40 crates of supplies, I'm happy
09:04:40  <Pikka> umm
09:04:54  <Pikka> actually the cargo capacities are rather more generous than av8
09:05:02  *** KouDy [~koudy@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:05:15  <andythenorth> the AV8 ones are certainly never too small
09:05:24  <andythenorth> not in my games anyway
09:05:27  <Pikka> "goods" capacities for the three helicopters are 20 / 30 / 50
09:05:32  <Pikka> good enough?
09:05:46  <Pikka> 1951 / 1987 / 2023
09:05:50  <andythenorth> 2023 :P
09:05:53  <andythenorth> I never play that far
09:06:01  *** KouDy [~koudy@] has joined #openttd
09:06:03  <andythenorth> 30 will do, but I will end up with chopper polution
09:06:03  <Pikka> what, never?
09:06:08  <andythenorth> almost never
09:06:32  <andythenorth> is there some 737 ish thing?
09:06:34  * andythenorth could just look
09:06:41  * andythenorth looks
09:06:57  <Pikka> all the jets are large, though
09:08:40  <Pikka> any road
09:08:44  <Pikka> I'm off for dins
09:08:52  * andythenorth comes back
09:08:55  <andythenorth> yeah, it's good
09:08:59  <andythenorth> smashed out the park etc
09:09:06  <andythenorth> everything looks spot on
09:09:08  <andythenorth> except no elvis
09:09:18  *** Alberth [] has joined #openttd
09:09:21  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
09:09:37  <Pikka> should put elvis in HEQS :P
09:09:56  * Pikka bbanon
09:10:56  <andythenorth> bye bye
09:10:58  <andythenorth> HEQS is dying
09:11:48  <Alberth> more insane vehicle names? :)
09:13:21  <andythenorth>
09:16:24  <Alberth> right, you give it the name of a singer, because another country used it in one of its states where the singer happened to live.  :)
09:17:28  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
09:24:15  <Flygon> Elvis!
09:24:22  <Flygon> Why didn't Elvis stay here for 2013? :(
09:24:24  <Flygon> I LOVED Elvis!
09:25:18  <Flygon> Also
09:25:25  <Flygon> A 747 won't fly from Eglisstaoir to Hvolsvollur
09:25:30  <Flygon> Darn tile limits D:
09:26:25  <V453000> using stupidly large maps <3
09:29:21  <Flygon> 2048*2048 isn't stupidly large D:
09:35:34  <planetmaker> it's insanely large :P
09:35:44  <planetmaker> good morning :)
09:36:32  <Flygon> Huomenta!
09:36:40  <Flygon> But, yeah
09:36:42  <Flygon> Bugger me
09:36:44  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:36:50  <Flygon> I'll have to run DMUs from Egli to Hvol x.x
09:39:05  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
09:39:25  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:49:30  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
10:15:20  *** Haube [] has joined #openttd
10:31:53  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
10:32:28  <Wolf01> hello o/
10:32:52  *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has joined #openttd
10:37:00  <Alberth> o/
10:45:11  <Phreeze> i hate lighting....
10:45:24  <Phreeze> should design all the locos for nightGFX only xD
10:45:36  <Phreeze> using black, blacker and not so black
10:45:41  <planetmaker> make it a NewGRF parameter ;)
10:45:52  *** TheDude [] has joined #openttd
10:46:08  <Phreeze> you didn't see the "ONLY" ;)
10:46:22  <planetmaker> pff!
10:46:56  <planetmaker> time for some wood chucking :D Or child caring. I shall see ;)
10:47:17  <planetmaker> maybe both :) Laters
10:47:18  <Phreeze> i need a 3rd video + chat/photoshop + browser doesn't work out like that
10:47:28  <Phreeze> chuck the child
10:47:33  <Phreeze> problem solved :>
10:47:54  <planetmaker> the father has a 2nd axe. I might become scared
10:48:11  <Phreeze> then ..kill it with fire (TM)
10:49:33  <TheDude> hello
10:50:15  <TheDude> is Truebrain online sometimes?
10:51:24  <Alberth> seldom
10:51:56  <planetmaker> sometimes
10:51:57  <TheDude> he is manager of website, right?
10:52:08  <planetmaker> what about: just ask your question?
10:52:46  <TheDude> it's the profile page of, I'd like to see it finished already, I though I could help with it
10:53:12  <planetmaker> profile?
10:53:17  <TheDude>
10:53:58  <planetmaker> that part is afaik in the svn repo
10:54:05  <planetmaker>
10:54:13  <planetmaker> python / django
10:55:11  <TheDude> I know website is in svn, but still, a word first about the form of the page would be better than just code something
10:55:39  <TheDude> :-)
10:56:37  <TheDude> whom could I speak about it then?
10:58:51  <TheDude> or maybe even better question would be, is there a way to edit bananas account?
10:59:06  <planetmaker> as I have to leave now, too, I might actually suggest to try a discussion in our forums
10:59:22  <planetmaker> bananas accounts can be edited via phpldapadmin
11:00:02  <planetmaker> if you mean bananas = users using it. But that's general users. One account
11:00:54  <planetmaker> We've had some brief thoughts on that, but it's difficult :) Maybe I can find some old conversations given a bit search time
11:01:38  <TheDude> well, I meant things like editing mail, profile details of my own profile
11:02:06  <planetmaker> bananas itself is different and not exactly in the vcs due to coding style reasons mostly, mixing sensitive data hard-coded into it
11:02:27  <TheDude> phpldapadmin is only available to admins I guess, I dont want to bother admin to edit my account :-)
11:03:26  <TheDude> yeah, I said banana, but accounts are centralised, I meand editing account generally
11:03:30  <planetmaker> I know. I want that, too
11:03:48  <TheDude> there is even flyspray task for it :-)
11:05:13  <planetmaker> Well, user accounts are not related to bananas. And that's in principle all in the VCS
11:06:16  <TheDude> I see, so how could I help with making some profile edit form?
11:09:35  <planetmaker> By writing the appropriate forms, I guess. The typical access is found in the code, e.g already. Maybe we can come up with a test environment
11:09:56  <planetmaker> As said, please lay out your plans in the forum, I really run late now
11:10:02  * Pikka returns
11:10:25  <planetmaker> alternatively use the issue you found in the issue tracker
11:10:45  <Pikka> My aunt got married last weekend and they had an elvis impersonater, it was good times.
11:10:49  <TheDude> ok, I will, thanks for info
11:10:58  <TheDude> dont let me delay you
11:40:46  *** MJP [] has joined #openttd
11:45:58  *** wakou2 [] has joined #openttd
11:49:37  *** manu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:59:11  *** Devroush [] has joined #openttd
12:04:55  *** blackhair [~blackhair@] has joined #openttd
12:08:51  *** scrollback1 [] has joined #openttd
12:10:58  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- i understand why they declared voting machines unconstitutional here...
12:10:58  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
12:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> this code needs more "goto fail"
12:14:28  *** Pensacola [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:16:06  *** gelignite [] has joined #openttd
12:41:40  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
12:52:19  <Flygon> Hmmmm
12:52:25  <Flygon> This'll be interesting
12:52:37  <Flygon> 200km/h train vs. aircraft with connecting subway train
12:52:43  <Flygon> And they're choosing the train
12:52:50  <Flygon> Despite aircraft being over 6 times faster
12:54:06  *** yorick [] has joined #openttd
12:59:22  <lachlan> when trying to build a grf from source, the version shows as noREV. wat
13:00:27  *** lachlan is now known as TheStevens
13:03:16  <Alberth> it uses the hg repository and the hg tools for determining the revision you're building
13:03:41  <Alberth> if they are not present, there is no way to derive a revision
13:04:34  <Alberth> (assuming the grf you're building is stored in a hg repository)
13:04:34  <TheStevens> okay, so if I'm using subversion it breaks essentially?
13:06:06  <Alberth> it's not prepared for other VCSes, probably, since hg is the most used VCS at the devzone
13:06:25  <Alberth> iirc there is also 1 project using git, but no svn afaik
13:07:30  <Alberth> ie there is currently no need to support svn too, I think
13:08:20  <TheStevens> fair enough. I'll just have to hack together my own solution I guess.
13:08:38  <Alberth> but basically it asks the revision from the VCS, that is possible with svn too
13:09:44  <Alberth> if you can make it work together the existing code, the change could be considered for addition in the standard setup
13:10:17  <Alberth> +with
13:12:02  <Alberth> although svn is very useless for use by others, so I don't know if that would be a desired change
13:14:15  *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:15:01  <TheStevens> that's fair enough. I simply picked it because it was the easiest to set up and use for my purposes.
13:17:31  <TheStevens> and the change is probably going to be a total of about 3 lines needing changing in the makefile anyway.
13:18:26  <Alberth> if you want to support both VCSes, it's more work probably, especially if you also handle not having the tools available
13:19:06  <Alberth> fyi, hg is even easier than svn, as the working copy is also the repository
13:19:26  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
13:19:31  <Alberth> hi andy
13:19:36  <andythenorth> o/
13:20:04  <andythenorth> @seen frosch123
13:20:04  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 17 hours, 5 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <frosch123> "close all applications before installing" then reboot one or two times
13:20:16  <andythenorth> hmm
13:20:30  * andythenorth is itching for Silicon Valleys
13:20:44  <andythenorth> Alberth: should we learn Squirrel? o_O
13:21:47  <Alberth> want to make your own silicon?
13:22:35  <Alberth> I wrote some test-ish stuff in squirrel, but nothing serious yet
13:23:47  <TheStevens> I'll have a little looksie at hg. as a noob at repositories the svn docs seemed to be the easiest to understand for someone of my... skill
13:26:07  <andythenorth> I'm wondering how hard it would be to adapt SV to n cities
13:26:22  <andythenorth> whether it means re-writing everything, or if the current code can be packed up in a couple of loops
13:26:42  <Alberth> svn has the more fixed setup of a central repository. From that, the workflow follows, which is thus also fairly fixed, I can see it's more easier to manage at first
13:26:49  <Eddi|zuHause> depends on who is doing it :p
13:27:29  <andythenorth> I found a central repo a bit of a headache
13:27:32  <Alberth> hg is more flexible. You can use it like you use svn, but there are also other ways. This uncertainty makes the workflow also less easy to describe
13:27:34  <andythenorth> it seems more logical, but meh
13:27:48  <Pikka> as far as gamescripts go, better off taking the basic principle and making your own version from scratch, imo. but that's generally my philosophy with most things. :)
13:28:35  <Eddi|zuHause> central repo makes it more difficult to work on things that are not quite ready yet
13:28:53  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: svn does have branches :)
13:29:27  <andythenorth> Pikka: want to make one for me then? o_O
13:29:38  <Pikka> andythenorth: yes
13:29:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but that creates a whole set of other problems :)
13:29:49  <andythenorth> that was not the answer I expected :P
13:29:57  <andythenorth> I thought you would tell me to boil my head
13:30:04  <Pikka> well, there you go :P
13:30:25  <Alberth> you say "yes" and he still doesn't believe it :p
13:30:35  <andythenorth> I don't want to play *without* GS any more
13:30:51  <Pikka> I did write a not-very-complex AI, how hard can a gs be? ;)
13:30:51  * Alberth ponders about IdleGS
13:31:07  * andythenorth ponders about cargo distribution, on a totally unrelated subject
13:31:36  * Pikka ponders about universalremote.grf
13:31:43  <andythenorth> indeed
13:31:57  <andythenorth> so do most of you just use cdist as a waybill dispatcher?
13:32:02  <andythenorth> i.e. handling the transfers etc
13:32:17  <Eddi|zuHause> what else would you use it for?
13:32:20  <Pikka> it's mostly useful for passengers tbh
13:32:45  <Alberth> mostly yes, as multi-cargo transport is a PITA in openttd
13:33:02  <andythenorth>
13:33:11  <andythenorth> I am +1 to pax dist
13:33:21  <andythenorth> because I don't care where pax goes
13:33:53  <andythenorth> so I can wave hands and say "ok, YACD is gone, let's stop talking about YACD"
13:33:56  <andythenorth> but
13:34:04  <Alberth> pax dist is basically single cargo dist transport, which is quite doable
13:34:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i use it for passengers and primary cargos. it's not much use for secondary cargos (e.g. goods), as it does not enforce connecting as many destinations as possible
13:34:13  <andythenorth> cdist in current form goes beyond dispatching, and controls economy
13:34:21  <andythenorth> but it's not good enough to control the economy
13:34:30  <andythenorth> it's a pretty good dispatcher
13:35:14  <Eddi|zuHause> basically if you wanted to distribute goods through different parts of the city, you lose more than you gain
13:37:12  <andythenorth> I wanted to use it for freight in my single player NCG game
13:37:31  <andythenorth> it would have worked perfectly for the inbound primary cargo
13:37:38  <Pikka> andy: what's this GS of yourn supposed tae do?
13:37:42  <andythenorth> but supply distribution would have been borked
13:37:49  <Pikka> we should play SV and you can tell me how it differs from SV. :P
13:37:55  <andythenorth> indeed
13:38:03  <andythenorth> it's just SV, but multiple cities
13:38:05  <andythenorth> instead of one
13:38:21  <Pikka> eh
13:38:21  <andythenorth>
13:38:24  <andythenorth> eh indeed
13:38:31  <andythenorth> it's not a ground breaking idea
13:38:34  <Pikka> can probably make it more interesting ;)
13:38:45  <Pikka> interesting / evil
13:38:48  <andythenorth> I tried having good ideas, but I had this one instead
13:39:07  <andythenorth> SV is good for single player, over 50 or 70 years
13:39:13  <Pikka> I tried having good ideas and came up with regearing...
13:39:17  <andythenorth> but the later part of the game is kind of monotonous
13:39:21  <andythenorth> just 'moar stuff'
13:39:36  <andythenorth> still fun
13:39:41  <andythenorth> but I'm not itching to play it again
13:40:08  <Pikka> soo
13:40:12  <Pikka> multiple cities, one cargo
13:40:15  <andythenorth> nah
13:40:16  <Pikka> or different cargo for each city?
13:40:19  <andythenorth> each one specialises
13:40:23  <Pikka> k
13:40:25  <andythenorth> so you cover more of the cargo types
13:40:33  <andythenorth> with FIRS Basic economies it would be fun
13:40:39  <andythenorth> there are about 18 or 19 cargos
13:40:51  <andythenorth> you'd need to transport the majority of them
13:40:57  <Pikka> can I give the GS a silly name?
13:41:00  <andythenorth> no
13:41:04  <andythenorth> it must be very sensible
13:41:14  <andythenorth> do you have a name?
13:41:35  <Pikka> and do some industry/cargo analysis so that it doesn't pick supply cargos? actually, I already started something like that for an AI. :)
13:41:44  <Pikka> no, I don't have a name
13:41:44  <andythenorth> yair
13:41:51  <andythenorth> supply cargos are not a good cargo goal
13:41:56  <andythenorth> also it should do disasters
13:42:10  <andythenorth> bandits have destroyed your bridge, etc
13:42:13  <andythenorth> the natives are restless
13:42:16  <andythenorth> that kind of thing
13:42:24  <andythenorth> praps not :P
13:42:31  <Pikka> plebs are needed
13:42:36  <Pikka> you have been eaten by a grue
13:43:09  <andythenorth> or a gruffalo
13:43:14  <Eddi|zuHause> "la resistance has sabotaged your rails"
13:43:31  <andythenorth> can GS do disasters?
13:43:41  <Eddi|zuHause> somewhat
13:43:43  <andythenorth> why do I turn disasters off?
13:43:47  <andythenorth> are they good?
13:43:51  <Eddi|zuHause> no
13:44:00  <Pikka> they are extremely uninteresting
13:44:01  <Eddi|zuHause> the ufos always land at the same place
13:44:33  <Pikka> even if they didn't, disasters are basically "notice this and you need to rebuild two pieces of track"
13:44:45  <Pikka> "don't notice this and your network will be buggered until you do"
13:44:45  <andythenorth> or rebuild your factory
13:45:42  <Pikka> gs can't play sound files, right?
13:45:55  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not :)
13:51:16  <andythenorth> feature request
13:55:13  *** TheStevens [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:00:02  *** tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
14:01:57  *** blackhair [~blackhair@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:06:23  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:06:31  <andythenorth> can I start my RV set yet?
14:06:44  <andythenorth> or do I have to finish the bloody ships?
14:06:59  <Pikka> start your rv set
14:07:02  <Pikka> aren't the ships finished? :P
14:07:18  <andythenorth> they're not
14:09:06  <Pikka> o
14:09:13  <Pikka> you still have some to remove? ;)
14:09:24  <andythenorth> maybe
14:09:30  <andythenorth> I added some pointless river boats
14:09:32  <andythenorth> they could go
14:09:49  <Pikka> what's the road vehicle set going to be like?
14:10:41  <andythenorth> it will have road vehicles in it
14:10:44  <andythenorth> I know that much
14:10:51  <andythenorth> I should design it
14:10:53  <Pikka> awesome
14:10:58  <Eddi|zuHause> you first have to finish all sets before you can start a new one!
14:11:10  <andythenorth> oh :(
14:11:26  <Eddi|zuHause> not just your own set, but the sets of all other peopel
14:11:33  <andythenorth> might be a while
14:11:39  <andythenorth> anyway 90% of newgrfs are useless
14:11:45  <andythenorth> that pax engine thread says so
14:12:03  <andythenorth> what's wrong with default RVs anyway?
14:12:05  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe he looked at a sample of separator grfs :p
14:12:26  <Pikka> too slow, too low capacity, and not pretty enough
14:12:39  <Pikka> and too short a vehicle lifespan
14:12:48  <Pikka> to be precise :)
14:12:49  <andythenorth> and the upgrades are kind of meh
14:12:56  <andythenorth> also no cargo support
14:12:58  <Pikka> and no autorefit
14:12:58  <Pikka> yes
14:13:25  <andythenorth> I'll do up a list or something
14:13:33  <andythenorth> I might even have one already
14:13:42  <Pikka> if you're anything like me you've got three
14:13:47  <andythenorth> yeah
14:14:13  <Eddi|zuHause> what are the reasons why this rv set will end up better than the last one?
14:15:11  <andythenorth> I won't go off in a huff
14:15:26  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
14:15:26  <andythenorth> and I don't care about balancing similar-but-different trucks any more
14:15:38  <andythenorth> and there's no attempt at putting in 'story'
14:15:43  <andythenorth> or imposing a type of gameplay
14:16:13  <andythenorth> if it turns out to plan, you basically get 'bus', 'truck', 'big truck' in any given year
14:16:23  <andythenorth> and then some specialist types
14:17:40  <andythenorth> oh I made a plan
14:17:42  <andythenorth> that's nice
14:17:45  * andythenorth bbl
14:21:00  <Eddi|zuHause> if you add a "meow" and "wetroad"... :p
14:22:31  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
14:28:56  *** vanila [] has joined #openttd
14:35:14  *** blackhair [blackhair@] has joined #openttd
14:37:37  <andythenorth> Pikka: so AV9 begins 1919?
14:37:44  <Pikka> yep
14:38:25  <Pikka> is that right?
14:39:37  <andythenorth> yeah
14:39:39  <andythenorth> think so
14:40:00  <andythenorth> I am going to design RVs on the assumption that I only us AV9 for planes
14:40:20  <andythenorth> they're not very related, but slightly
14:40:28  <Pikka> fwiw
14:40:31  <andythenorth> especially for supply distribution
14:40:47  <Pikka> my road vehicle plan has the first bus in 1919 and the first truck in 1926
14:41:12  <andythenorth> mine has the first decent truck in 1915 currently
14:41:17  <Pikka> hmm
14:41:19  <andythenorth> but that might change
14:41:25  <Pikka> well
14:41:30  <andythenorth> basically I don't do FIRS supplies without planes
14:41:32  <andythenorth> and trucks
14:41:37  <Pikka> ho ho
14:41:51  <Pikka> well, you know
14:42:04  <Pikka> if people want trucks and planes they should be starting in 1930 or 1950 or later
14:42:07  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
14:42:09  <andythenorth> yair
14:42:13  <andythenorth> when does your train set start?
14:42:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd kinda like a tram set that starts in 1880 or so
14:42:29  <Pikka> canonically in 1900
14:42:31  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: HEQS? o_O
14:42:34  <andythenorth> :P
14:42:42  <Pikka> I think the first two locos are 1896 and 1897
14:42:45  <Eddi|zuHause> HEQS is not a tram set :p
14:42:55  <andythenorth> oh yes, you transport pax :P
14:43:07  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: all my sets are pegged to around 1870 or so
14:43:16  <andythenorth> and I'm open to pax trams
14:43:22  <Pikka> hmm
14:43:29  <Pikka> should I have pax (/any) trams?
14:43:37  <Pikka> trams are a bit silly
14:43:48  <Pikka> needs more properroadtypes
14:43:57  <Eddi|zuHause> they're better than horse carriages
14:44:09  <andythenorth> I like trams, ish
14:44:17  <Pikka> they're not better than trains, though :P
14:44:34  <Eddi|zuHause> they are, if you don't want to destroy half the town :p
14:45:02  <Eddi|zuHause> also, it's easier to scale up the capacity of the link
14:45:04  <andythenorth> metro :P
14:45:27  <andythenorth> metro on a way ring is buggy btw
14:45:34  <Pikka> "scale up the capacity of the link" means "spam road vehicles", right?
14:45:37  <andythenorth> I have to add orders for every station, or the trains get lost :P
14:45:46  <Eddi|zuHause> yes-ish :)
14:45:49  <andythenorth> Pikka: what else could it mean? :)
14:46:41  <Pikka> early supply delivery truck, you reckon
14:47:13  <Flygon> It just occoured to me I literally gridlocked OpenTTD
14:47:27  <Flygon> The road simulation is too accurate :B
14:47:41  <Eddi|zuHause>,%204.%20Aug%201953_3.png
14:49:47  <Eddi|zuHause> see how the train links are heavily overloaded while the tram links can actually manage?
14:52:22  <Flygon> I tend to have the opposite issue. My Trams are always jammed more than the Trains
14:52:27  <Flygon> At least, until the 1960s
14:52:31  <Flygon> For some reason
14:53:34  <Eddi|zuHause> well later it looked like this:,%2025.%20Jul%201988.png (unfortunately without station windows)
15:00:51  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
15:03:10  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
15:03:43  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you need unrealistic capacity trams
15:03:58  <andythenorth> this whole 'low capacity' thing works for trains, but is bad when applied to other types
15:04:26  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well the GermanRV trams do have higher capacity than the default vehicles
15:04:44  <Eddi|zuHause> also, in CETS i offer higher capacity commuter trains
15:04:50  * Pikka supposes I should add trams...
15:04:52  <andythenorth> it's the way forward
15:04:56  <andythenorth> to both points :P
15:05:21  <Eddi|zuHause> there are a few capacity oddities in GermanRV, though
15:05:55  <andythenorth> low or high?
15:11:16  <andythenorth> the thing is
15:11:29  <andythenorth> vehicles that have 10t capacity are totally pointless
15:11:38  <andythenorth> when their speed is 18mph that's offensive too
15:11:47  <Pikka> but horsesssssss
15:12:50  <Pikka> I added a 1910 truck, 20mph, 15t capacity, is that acceptabubble? considering it's purely for short supply links
15:12:50  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's not the capacity per se, but the length variation. some vehicles have a different length scale without adjusting the capacity
15:13:27  *** scrollback1 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:14:17  <andythenorth> Pikka: I dunno, I have something about the same
15:14:21  <Eddi|zuHause>
15:14:25  <andythenorth> I look at it and think I'll never use it
15:14:31  <andythenorth> Antonov problem
15:14:50  <andythenorth> build a train
15:14:54  <andythenorth> or a NG train
15:14:56  <Pikka> antonov is silly
15:14:59  <andythenorth> or even - shock - a canal
15:15:06  <andythenorth> nothing wrong with the Antonov
15:15:13  <andythenorth> it's just got no purpose
15:15:21  <Eddi|zuHause> those are 4 trams from roughly the same era, and they have vastly different capacity per vehicle length
15:15:32  <andythenorth> why don't we use canals more before 1910 or so?
15:15:49  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: because canals are way too expensive at that time
15:15:58  <andythenorth> I have a cost adjustment built in
15:16:07  <Pikka> also, "canals"
15:16:14  <andythenorth> yeah that
15:16:31  <andythenorth> they have square corners
15:16:33  <andythenorth> it's really a blocker
15:16:45  <Pikka> no distinction between foxton locks and suez
15:17:02  * Pikka still thinks small industrial canals should be a roadtype :D
15:17:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i had this idea once that ships came in different width (1/2, 1, 2) and they pass each other like road vehicles
15:18:23  <andythenorth> it's a nice idea
15:18:28  <Eddi|zuHause> so on a 1 tile wide river/canal you can have 1/2 width ships in both directions, or 1 width ships in one direction
15:18:42  <andythenorth> Pikka: haven't you been to England?  All our locks can handle container ships
15:18:58  <andythenorth> dunno about your upside down locks
15:19:10  <Eddi|zuHause> so you need 4 tile wide canals to run the huge ocean ships
15:20:06  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: but you didn't implement it, right? :D
15:20:15  <Eddi|zuHause> no :)
15:20:51  <Eddi|zuHause> part of the idea was that buoys automatically create waterways between them at the appropriate width
15:21:13  <Eddi|zuHause> other water tiles are not traversable by ships
15:24:11  *** Speedy` [] has joined #openttd
15:24:14  <andythenorth> nice, but I am -1 to that one :)
15:24:26  *** Speedy` is now known as Speedy
15:25:14  <andythenorth> 'something must be done' about canals and stuff
15:25:16  <andythenorth> dunno what
15:25:25  <andythenorth> I could give river boats a big cost advantage
15:25:31  <andythenorth> does anyone care about costs though?
15:25:52  <Pikka> I don't think anything needs to be done about canals and stuff
15:26:20  <andythenorth> do ever use rivers?
15:26:28  <Pikka> nein
15:26:49  <Pikka> they're like antonovs and horsewagons. they don't really fit into the way TTD works.
15:27:46  <andythenorth> nope
15:28:22  <andythenorth> also ugly
15:28:36  <Pikka> I don't even build canals for big ships - I lower the land to sea level, like one used to
15:28:49  <Pikka> looks better, easier to build bridges over
15:28:49  *** Zuu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:28:51  <Pikka> and usually cheaper
15:29:47  <andythenorth> yup
15:29:53  <andythenorth> moi aussi
15:29:59  <andythenorth> also can build docks on it
15:30:07  <Pikka> si
15:30:14  <andythenorth> can't build docks on canals and rivers
15:30:19  <andythenorth> stupid transport type
15:30:35  <andythenorth> want some trains? build a station
15:30:41  <andythenorth> want some planes? build airport
15:30:46  <andythenorth> want some trucks? build RV stop
15:30:51  <andythenorth> want river boats?
15:31:09  <andythenorth> demolish some buildings, raise some land, and build 9 tiles of water so they don't get stuck
15:31:15  <andythenorth> then build an ugly dock
15:31:17  <Pikka> like I said
15:31:22  <Pikka> would make a good roadtype ;)
15:31:26  <andythenorth> hmm
15:31:30  <andythenorth> also routing is broken for ships
15:31:49  <andythenorth> may I delete the river boats from Squid? o_O
15:31:56  <andythenorth> having established they are totally lame
15:32:12  <andythenorth> clarification: routing is broken for ships on canals and rivers
15:32:30  <Pikka> imo, yes
15:32:52  <Pikka> did I do 10cc shipstable yet? I don't think I did...
15:33:08  <Pikka> good ol' spreadsheet newgrfs :)
15:35:39  <andythenorth> lovely
15:35:44  <andythenorth> put it on bananas
15:35:49  <andythenorth> call it 'super big ships 2'
15:35:53  <andythenorth> get 1m downloads
15:35:59  <Pikka> yes
15:36:51  <Pikka> nearly 300 downloads of av9.81
15:36:54  <Pikka> who are these people?
15:40:25  <andythenorth> bots
15:40:27  <andythenorth> and andythenorth
15:41:15  <andythenorth> Pikka: can you make your AI build canals?
15:41:17  <andythenorth> o_O
15:41:30  <Pikka> I don't see why not
15:41:36  <Pikka> but why would it?
15:56:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: my GRF is purely spreadsheet :)
15:56:56  <Eddi|zuHause> write entry in table, press compile, booom GRF.
15:57:08  <frosch123> we need more educational grfs
15:57:22  <frosch123> like scrabble train composition
15:57:27  <frosch123> or math equations
15:59:14  <Pikka> Eddi: great, as long as you don't want graphics. :)
15:59:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i have "crude" graphics as well :)
16:00:25  <frosch123> maybe the capacity should equal the unit number of the front engine
16:01:36  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so you build 100 cheap dummy trains that you leave in depot before you can build useful ones?
16:02:06  <frosch123> hmm, true, we need gs that penalizes stopped trains
16:03:08  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
16:04:13  *** blackhair [blackhair@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:09:49  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
16:10:06  <andythenorth> Pikka: your AI should build canals so I don't have to :P
16:11:24  <frosch123> hmm, good point... why are there about 3 road network ais, but no canal network ais?
16:14:20  <andythenorth> they would find it impossible to build docks :P
16:14:33  * andythenorth tried to patch flat docks
16:14:44  <andythenorth> I successfully managed to create an assert
16:14:55  <frosch123> post it in the recent ttdp thread :p
16:15:13  <andythenorth> there's a thread? :o
16:15:45  <frosch123> yet another does-ottd-have-all-ttdp-features-thread
16:15:58  <frosch123> but noone mentioned flat docks
16:16:36  <andythenorth> are they in ttdp?
16:16:45  <frosch123> kind of
16:16:52  <frosch123> you do not need the terraforming
16:16:59  <frosch123> but you still need wide canals to not block them
16:17:33  <andythenorth> they should be 1 or 2 tiles at the waterside
16:17:33  <frosch123>
16:17:45  * andythenorth waits for Eddi|zuHause to mention state machines :)
16:17:55  <michi_cc> They are in the NewGRF specs, but I have yet to see a NewGRF implementing any. This might be an advantage though, if there is nothing to be compatible with, the hypothetical OTTD flat docks could use the water dock tile as the stopping position.
16:18:14  * andythenorth wonders about patching train stations so that ships see them
16:18:38  <andythenorth> or patching ships to look for train stations :P
16:19:36  *** Pikka [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:20:25  *** Pikka [] has joined #openttd
16:20:36  <andythenorth> hi Pikka
16:20:39  <andythenorth> been a while
16:24:21  <Pikka> how rare
16:24:36  <Pikka> also new(air)ports
16:25:18  <andythenorth> also crates and tons
16:25:21  <andythenorth> and refitting
16:25:38  <andythenorth> funny numbers
16:27:47  <Pikka> eh
16:28:00  <Pikka> they're just units, crates, tons, whatever :P
16:30:21  <andythenorth> sometimes they are 50% less than you expected :P
16:30:31  <Pikka> like when?
16:30:58  <andythenorth> somewhere in HEQS
16:31:00  <andythenorth> and in eGRVTS
16:31:07  <andythenorth> it's that old diagram about refitting
16:31:10  <Pikka> one should always explicitly return a capacity when refitting, imo... not rely on the silly default behaviour
16:31:18  <andythenorth> I think I just didn't fix it in HEQS
16:32:27  <andythenorth> is a 20t truck worth having?
16:32:38  <andythenorth> maybe 30t is the smallest to bother with
16:33:02  <Pikka> depends
16:33:14  <Pikka> do you want people using trucks to transport everything
16:33:17  <andythenorth> no
16:33:26  <andythenorth> not that I care
16:33:31  <Pikka> probably shouldn't make them too useful then ;)
16:33:33  <andythenorth> but I might not bother with 20t
16:33:52  <andythenorth> I did once consider adding 'convoys'
16:33:57  <andythenorth> but it got shot down
16:37:19  <Pikka> psh
16:38:45  <andythenorth> psh good, or psh bad?
16:39:02  <Pikka> psh getting shot down, you can do what you like :P
16:39:16  <Pikka> I don't think I'm even doing articulated rvs though, except perhaps trams
16:39:23  <andythenorth> have you not heard of the court of public opinion? :P
16:39:26  <andythenorth> oh that's nice
16:39:34  <andythenorth> I think I'm mostly only doing articulated :)
16:39:47  <andythenorth> compare and contrast
16:39:50  <Pikka> yep :)
16:40:03  <Pikka> so
16:40:12  *** ABCRic [] has joined #openttd
16:40:25  <Pikka> silicon andy gamescript and universal remote newgrf
16:40:28  <Pikka> and trains
16:40:36  <andythenorth> and av9
16:40:43  <Pikka> av9 is done
16:40:46  <Pikka> except the graphics :)
16:40:49  <andythenorth> so is UK Houses thing
16:40:55  <andythenorth> I tried it until 2010 or so
16:40:57  <andythenorth> looks nice
16:41:07  <Pikka> which? the TaI?
16:41:16  <andythenorth> yair
16:41:19  <Pikka> eh
16:41:27  <Pikka> could be better coded
16:41:42  <andythenorth> I don't look at that bit
16:41:55  <andythenorth> "houses: solved" as far as I am concerned
16:41:57  <andythenorth> that one's done
16:42:01  <Pikka> well
16:42:04  <Pikka> could be better graphics too
16:42:09  <Pikka> but I'll get back to that :P
16:42:45  <andythenorth> nah it's finished
16:42:57  <andythenorth> unless you 32 whatsit it
16:43:18  <Pikka> yes
16:43:19  <Pikka> that
16:43:40  <andythenorth> also trams
16:43:55  <andythenorth> so what is point of small slow truck if freight trams also?
16:44:13  <Pikka> true
16:44:16  <Pikka> perhaps
16:44:21  <Pikka> but I don't freight trams
16:44:22  <andythenorth> even farms with trams is not wrong
16:44:27  * andythenorth trams freight
16:44:29  <Pikka> you can freight trams
16:44:40  <andythenorth> I'll freight trams
16:44:45  <andythenorth> you do not freight trams
16:44:48  <Pikka> you will
16:44:49  <Pikka> isn't it
16:44:57  <andythenorth> couldn't be clearer
16:45:18  <andythenorth> my RV set: now with fewer vehicles
16:45:21  <andythenorth> winnar is us
16:45:35  <Pikka> yes
16:45:58  <andythenorth> also
16:46:02  <andythenorth> trams are types
16:46:13  <andythenorth> none of this 'refit any of the wagons to different body types' crap
16:46:29  * andythenorth has made decision
16:46:35  <andythenorth> public opinion be damned
16:46:36  <Pikka> huzzah!
16:46:44  <andythenorth> livestock tram!
16:46:53  <andythenorth> dump truck tram!
16:46:58  <andythenorth> tanker tram!
16:47:25  <andythenorth> maybe even capacity refits can go to hell?
16:47:30  <andythenorth> they are very nice...
16:47:33  <andythenorth> HEQS
16:47:48  <Pikka> what about autorefittings
16:47:57  <andythenorth> autorefittings is ok
16:48:04  <andythenorth> ah capacity refittings breaks autorefittings
16:48:08  <andythenorth> so no capacity refittings
16:51:59  <frosch123> they do not
16:52:48  <andythenorth> capacity != capacity ;)
16:52:53  <andythenorth> bad terminology
16:53:05  <andythenorth> subtype refits that change length breaks autorefittings
16:53:17  <andythenorth> "may not change length in stations"
16:54:09  <frosch123> as long as you ahve the same length options for each cargo, there is no issue
16:54:16  <frosch123> autorefit picks the same cargo subtype
16:54:52  <frosch123> all ordered refits do that
16:56:05  <andythenorth> hmm
16:56:13  <andythenorth> that changed since I removed autorefit from HEQS trams
16:56:18  <andythenorth> improvements :)
16:56:33  *** Knogle [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:58:04  *** Knogle [] has joined #openttd
17:05:54  <frosch123> i thought i tested that specifically with firs :p
17:09:47  *** Aristide [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
17:23:01  *** welshdragon [] has joined #openttd
17:23:40  *** rubenwardy [] has joined #openttd
17:29:21  *** TheDude [] has quit [Quit: bye]
17:36:48  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: tram speeds for 1905 or so?  30mph or 35mph?
17:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause> something around 30-40km/h? tram speeds are "unrealistic" anyway
17:38:07  <Eddi|zuHause> inner city trams go something like 20km/h
17:38:20  <andythenorth> I prefer unrealistic :)
17:38:34  <andythenorth> 30mph is plenty
17:38:39  <frosch123> make it half the speed of a freight train in iron horse?
17:38:53  <frosch123> at any time during a game
17:39:23  <frosch123> you need some corporate branding :p
17:41:32  <andythenorth> do I have to provide trucks after 1995? :P
17:41:37  <andythenorth> my games always finish by 200x
17:42:00  <frosch123> v raged recently about egrvts not having any vehicles after 2030 or so
17:42:05  <frosch123> can you deal with a raging v?
17:42:15  <andythenorth> yeah
17:42:26  <andythenorth> so just 6 RVs for 'general freight'
17:42:29  <frosch123> i mean if he plays with rv for once :p
17:42:30  <andythenorth> covers 1870-1995
17:42:48  <frosch123> ah, you are making boring sets again
17:42:56  <andythenorth> hold your horses :P
17:43:03  <andythenorth> I haven't added in the hoverbus yet
17:43:48  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
17:43:51  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
17:43:53  <andythenorth> if you would get on and do roadtypes, I could add electric trucks
17:44:04  <andythenorth> volvo and such are trialling them on overhead catenary again
17:44:26  <andythenorth> and embedded power rail
17:45:46  <Pikka> I don't think he raged because no new ones were introduced
17:45:53  <Pikka> I think he raged because the last vehicles expired :P
17:46:28  <andythenorth> there is nowhere to go once I've got to 1995
17:46:33  <andythenorth> I don't want bigger trucks, or faster
17:46:46  <andythenorth> maybe a bit more power, but hardly worth it
17:46:50  <andythenorth> flying trucks...maybe
17:47:01  <Pikka> ohhh
17:47:07  <Pikka> I forgot fishing boats, "whoops"
17:47:20  <andythenorth> oopsie
17:47:29  <andythenorth> flying fishing boats?
17:47:37  <Pikka> I guess I need one or two of those, for firs porpoises
17:47:39  <Pikka> yes
17:47:44  <Pikka> for catching flying fish
17:47:49  <andythenorth> when is seaplanes done?
17:48:00  <Pikka> oh, years and years ago
17:48:08  <andythenorth> hoverfish?
17:48:48  <andythenorth> hmm
17:48:54  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> do I have to provide trucks after 1995? :P <-- yes :)
17:49:05  <andythenorth> I could do Longer Heavier Vehicles - 2x capacity, 2 trailers
17:49:12  <andythenorth> or autonomous trucks which travel in trains
17:49:24  <andythenorth> or...swarm of quadcopters?  Replacing trucks...
17:49:31  <Eddi|zuHause> or just ones that are 30% larger and 30% faster
17:50:11  <Eddi|zuHause> dimensional compressor trucks, fit more stuff into the same volume
17:50:18  <andythenorth> fusion powered
17:51:18  <frosch123> yeah, why make it big on the outside, if you need the space inside
17:51:28  <Eddi|zuHause> there was something about the ITER recently, where they wanted to make the concrete base plate only half as thick, for money reasons, and the (french) inspector said it would make it totally unsafe
17:57:04  *** jpierre03 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:58:43  *** jpierre03 [] has joined #openttd
18:03:35  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I've added some 20xx truck, just for you :P
18:04:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i really doubt i will ever actually use them :p
18:04:35  <andythenorth> I slightly doubt I'll code them or draw them :P
18:06:05  <andythenorth> so when are we getting trolley trucks?
18:06:54  <andythenorth>
18:08:04  <andythenorth>
18:10:07  <andythenorth>
18:11:17  * andythenorth wonders about a varact 2 that can detect if a non-tram RV is on a tile that also has tram
18:11:23  <andythenorth> and adjust power accordingly
18:11:29  <andythenorth> haxor
18:20:06  *** ChickeNES [] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz
18:20:30  <Eddi|zuHause> not without "roadtypes"
18:22:27  <andythenorth> ha ha
18:22:32  * andythenorth invents a farm tram
18:22:35  <andythenorth> it's even realistic
18:23:46  <andythenorth> livestock wagons, milk can go in them in churns
18:23:51  <andythenorth> haul supplies on the way back
18:23:55  <andythenorth> winning
18:24:05  <Pikka> si
18:24:29  <Phreeze> never seen in reality ;)
18:24:35  <andythenorth> orly?
18:24:50  <andythenorth> are you familiar with black swans? o_O
18:25:43  <Phreeze> nay
18:27:54  <frosch123> are they relatives to unicorns?
18:28:15  <Pikka> I should ask them
18:28:26  <Pikka> there's some that hang around the lagoon up at sandgate...
18:30:40  <andythenorth> is problem
18:30:45  <andythenorth> claimings about reality
18:30:49  <andythenorth> requires seen all reality
18:30:52  <andythenorth> *all*
18:30:55  <andythenorth> and also not drunk
18:31:30  *** vanila [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:35:31  <andythenorth> vehicle set can't trigger news messages?
18:35:54  <andythenorth> "new regulations: milk must be moved by tanker for hyienic'
18:36:12  *** jpierre03 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:36:35  <Pikka> too many realisms by half
18:39:22  <andythenorth> half as many instead?
18:39:29  <Pikka> easily
18:41:25  <andythenorth> herp
18:45:05  <Kjetil> "Election news: Communist elected. All private property seized"
18:46:02  <andythenorth> with a farm trams, l only need 3 livestock trucks
18:46:06  <andythenorth> or can I just have 2?
18:46:18  <Pikka> yes
18:46:37  <andythenorth> livestock truck, better livestock truck
18:46:48  <andythenorth> after about 1945 and 1978 or something
18:48:09  <Kjetil> "Animal activists seizes power: Livestock production halts"
18:48:58  <frosch123> why would animal acivits kill 90% of land mammals?
18:49:11  <frosch123>
18:49:45  <Kjetil> because they are treehuggers
18:50:55  <andythenorth> does that chart include ants?
18:51:07  <Pikka> ants, the well-known mammal
18:51:13  <frosch123> exactly :)
18:51:29  <frosch123> i have a small ant farm, who i milk every day
18:51:30  <andythenorth> I learn something every day
18:51:42  <andythenorth> ants are not mammals? :O
18:52:02  <Pikka> they are not!
18:52:07  <Pikka> nor are black swans
18:52:45  <andythenorth> ant tram
18:52:53  <frosch123> anyway, i am kind of disappointed that water mammals are not included in that chart
18:52:57  <Pikka> what is this
18:52:59  <Pikka> a tram for ants?
18:53:18  <frosch123> are hippos land mammals?
18:53:33  *** jpierre03 [] has joined #openttd
18:54:03  <Pikka> probably
19:00:09  <andythenorth> ant farm?
19:00:11  <andythenorth> ant economy?
19:00:30  <frosch123> widelands has spider farms
19:04:07  *** glx is now known as Guest2625
19:04:07  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
19:04:10  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
19:05:24  <andythenorth> tankers in IH autorefit between alcohol, oil, rubber, petrol, fertiliser etc
19:05:27  <andythenorth> is that good?
19:05:32  <Pikka> yes
19:05:34  <andythenorth> ok
19:05:43  <andythenorth> should I make it cost?
19:05:44  <Pikka> if people complain that it's unrealistic, tell them "don't do it then"
19:05:46  <frosch123> alcohol and feriliser? sounds about right
19:05:47  <Pikka> no you should not
19:05:55  <andythenorth> in that case I have nothing to change
19:05:57  <andythenorth> winner
19:09:00  <Pikka> hm
19:09:03  <Pikka> 29 ships
19:09:31  <Pikka> 26, too
19:09:37  <Pikka> but rather, 15 ships
19:09:50  <Pikka> with 26 generational graphics
19:10:10  *** Guest2625 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:10:30  <Pikka> nothing expires, new ships are always (usually) larger, the older smaller ships change sprites from steam -> diesel etc
19:11:15  <Pikka> keeps the buy menu relatively uncluttered, while also giving a range of ship sizes
19:12:01  <frosch123> forced not playing with breakdowns though
19:12:10  <Pikka> why?
19:12:33  <Pikka> because of silly random range of maximum reliability?
19:12:51  <frosch123> that's the only purpose of breakdowns
19:13:25  <Pikka> I don't think even people who play with breakdowns on pay much attention to that
19:13:35  <frosch123> i once tried nars2 or something, and the 0-4-0 or however it was called was useless for the whole game
19:13:52  <frosch123> you just cannot build an engine with 70% reliability
19:14:10  <frosch123> usually you pick an older engine of the same class instead
19:14:20  <frosch123> but that fails for the changing-stats vehicles
19:14:34  <Pikka> changing-stats vehicles is always a bad idea
19:14:41  <Pikka> for a whole host of reasons
19:15:05  <frosch123> oh, maybe i misunderstood you there
19:15:12  <frosch123> you only want to change sprites, not stats
19:15:16  <Pikka> yes
19:15:41  <Pikka> but your point is still valid because there won't be "an older engine of the same class"
19:15:54  <Eddi|zuHause>  <andythenorth> "new regulations: milk must be moved by tanker for hyienic' <-- i always wanted to have that, to do like "speed limit for freight trains has been increased from 35 km/h to 55km/h"
19:16:15  <Eddi|zuHause> something that can be done in NewGRFs, but isn't really obvious to the user
19:16:23  <frosch123> well, maybe with ships you have more variety
19:16:38  <Pikka> GS should be able to impose speed limits on vehicles
19:16:41  <frosch123> but with only 5 train engines (or so) it was definitely an issue
19:16:53  <Pikka> or arbitrarily destroy vehicles :D
19:17:00  <Pikka> ehhhhhhh... 5 train engines
19:17:04  <Pikka> have you seen av9? lol
19:17:34  <frosch123> i did not build any planes in the last game
19:17:47  <frosch123> i saw only stratocruisers flying around
19:17:53  <Pikka> there aren't a whole lot of vehicle choices...
19:18:42  <Pikka> perhaps you should quietly narrow down the range of maximum reliability? ;) or not, because really, who plays with breakdowns on normal?
19:18:47  <frosch123> the silly thing with aircraft was always that small aircraft are better because the commuter airport is just so much better :p
19:18:57  <Pikka> yes
19:19:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: have you introduced a parameter to scale ranges up for larger maps in av9?
19:19:27  <Pikka> no, I have not
19:19:28  <andythenorth> cumooooter airport is best one
19:19:34  <andythenorth> apart from helistation
19:19:34  <Pikka> I have removed ranges altogether
19:20:04  <Eddi|zuHause> aww...
19:20:09  <frosch123> yet another point for more patchpacks :)
19:20:16  <frosch123> trunk inclusion is overrated
19:20:28  <frosch123> people just stop using features
19:20:36  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: you mean like a  "more airports" patchpack?
19:21:09  <Eddi|zuHause> because RichK67 did have those :)
19:21:24  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: no, i mean that ottd accumulates features with are considered awesome when added, but over time become unused
19:21:51  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: like combo signals?
19:22:08  <frosch123> like noise levels, infra cost, aircraft range, autorefit, timetables, vehicle groups, autoreplace, ...
19:22:33  <frosch123> hmm, i guess autoreplace is still valid if i would play longer lasting games :p
19:22:44  <Alberth> :)
19:22:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i always use autoreplace differently than everyone else
19:23:28  <Eddi|zuHause> like i probably am the only person who uses the "upgrade vehicles in this depot" button :)
19:23:36  <andythenorth> no
19:23:39  <andythenorth> I use it too
19:23:46  <andythenorth> but only when autoreplace is failing
19:23:50  <frosch123> i used to use it as well,, though i cannot remember what for
19:23:57  <andythenorth> because autoreplace doesn't always work?
19:23:59  <Eddi|zuHause> pause, set rule, click upgrade, remove rule, unpause
19:24:18  <frosch123> maybe just for stopped vehicles or something
19:24:23  *** zeknurn [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:24:30  <andythenorth> that button's tool tip should be 'autoreplace is buggy, use this when it fails'
19:24:32  <Pikka> it does always work, andy :P
19:24:42  <andythenorth> but I have never found why it fails, so I've never been able to report it
19:24:49  <andythenorth> probably just some setting I have wrong
19:24:54  <Pikka> you can autoreplace within groups only
19:25:05  *** zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
19:25:08  <Pikka> you're probably setting autoreplace for a group thinking you're doing it globally ;)
19:25:11  <andythenorth> nah
19:25:19  <andythenorth> I use group autoreplace all the time
19:25:23  <Pikka> k
19:25:26  <andythenorth> autoreplace without groups would be a crime
19:25:36  <Pikka> perhaps :o
19:25:38  <andythenorth> what else did frosch mention
19:25:57  <andythenorth> timetables - need those because we don't have partial load, and there seems to be an aversion to even discussing it
19:26:25  <frosch123> yes,i also use timetables to set loading times
19:26:27  <andythenorth> "no you may not have partial load, you must use some fricking insane conditional order routing, involving looping trains through the station multiple times"
19:26:39  <frosch123> they are actually nice for that, but noone seems to know about that usage
19:26:40  <Pikka> most of the things frosch mentioned I see used all the time
19:26:54  <Pikka> but aircraft range just isn't good for gameplay. :)
19:26:54  <andythenorth> "you may not have a callback, you must run a loop and poll for state constantly"
19:27:12  <andythenorth> noise levels aren't stupid
19:27:19  <Pikka> I use noise levels
19:27:24  <andythenorth> the inability to ignore them in settings is stupid though :P
19:27:58  <andythenorth> is aircraft range a thing?  I wouldn't notice
19:28:05  <andythenorth> is it used in AV8?
19:28:18  <Pikka> yes, it is used in av8
19:28:23  <andythenorth> I never run into it
19:28:32  <andythenorth> if I did, I'd just build a waypoint airport
19:28:37  <andythenorth> simples
19:28:40  <Pikka> quite
19:28:41  *** rubenwardy [] has quit [Quit: You may notice this notice is not worth noticing]
19:28:50  <andythenorth> just more kibbling
19:29:03  <andythenorth> non-interesting choices
19:29:03  <Pikka> infrastructure costs are a good idea but some of the defaults are a bit wacky
19:29:07  <Eddi|zuHause> timetables are just a pain to set up and coordinate
19:29:11  <Pikka> particularly airports :)
19:29:21  <andythenorth> infra costs are not useful in MP GS challenges
19:29:32  <andythenorth> and I don't play single player any more much, so I didn't notice them
19:29:59  <andythenorth> the solution to 'too much money' is 'challenge based gameplay'
19:30:03  <Pikka> "people make too much money flying passengers between opposite sides of the map, let's add a cost that makes flying passengers between the opposite sides of the map the only economical strategy" ;)
19:30:13  <andythenorth> if adding more costs solved this stuff, we'd have fixed it in newgrf ages ago
19:30:17  <Pikka> yes
19:30:18  <andythenorth> game balancing is severely over-rated
19:30:23  <Eddi|zuHause> airports are a giant pain because you can't define the time spent in the waiting loop
19:30:38  <Eddi|zuHause> so you can't coordinate landing/takeoff order
19:30:41  <andythenorth> IH has running costs of /year for engines, yet the NCG game with it was fun
19:30:56  <Pikka> oui
19:31:18  <andythenorth> shall I have rouge or blanc?
19:31:26  <Pikka> why not both?
19:31:27  <Eddi|zuHause> and letting the planes figure it out themselves never works properly
19:31:30  <Pikka> where's mine?
19:31:52  <Pikka> eddi: what we need is some kind of, I don't know...
19:32:03  <Pikka> newgrf defined airports with smart holding patterns? :)
19:32:05  <andythenorth> Pikka: I have pink too
19:32:10  <Eddi|zuHause> you get 5 planes landing, then they block each other on the airport, then you get 5 planes taking off, then the airport is empty, but already 5 planes looping
19:32:19  <andythenorth> moar airports?
19:32:33  <Pikka> moar airprots
19:32:45  <Pikka> but not richk's half-baked hard-coded things
19:32:53  <Eddi|zuHause> no, more like "airport arrival/departure timetables"
19:33:22  <Eddi|zuHause> who was that dude with the airport-design minigame?
19:33:42  <andythenorth> frosch123: I conclude most of those features are useful
19:33:51  <andythenorth> I even hate autorefit less these days :P
19:34:05  <Eddi|zuHause> that place has been taken over by cargodist? :p
19:34:15  <andythenorth> somewhat
19:34:52  <andythenorth> it's just frustrating sometimes
19:35:03  <andythenorth> so much attention paid to not changing newgrf spec
19:35:24  <andythenorth> but massive adjustments to gameplay pop up out of the blue
19:35:35  <andythenorth> causing nearly-done newgrfs to be redone from scratch :P
19:35:40  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause:
19:36:11  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that.
19:36:36  <andythenorth> incidentally we are way too scared of breaking newgrfs
19:36:42  <andythenorth> they're mostly rubbish anyway :P
19:36:43  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what do you mean? loads of grf spec changes happen
19:37:09  <Eddi|zuHause> entire 1.2 openttd was pure newgrf spec revolt
19:37:21  <andythenorth> and loads don't
19:38:33  <andythenorth> hmm
19:38:35  <andythenorth> can't name any :P
19:38:41  <Pikka> what needs changing in the spec, though?
19:38:49  <Pikka> nothing broken about newgrf...
19:38:54  *** Lacsap [] has joined #openttd
19:38:57  <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r26394 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2014-03-08 19:38:50 UTC)
19:38:58  <DorpsGek> -Fix[FS#5939]: Don't explain "symmetric" cargodist mode when the setting does not allow it.
19:39:20  <andythenorth> stations at water industries?
19:39:33  <andythenorth> eh, not much else
19:39:56  * andythenorth back to trucks
19:40:11  <frosch123> Pikka: the problem is that was i was not able to explain to andy
19:40:34  *** ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@] has joined #openttd
19:41:38  <Pikka> hm
19:41:44  <Pikka> I can explain it in four words
19:41:48  <Pikka> "don't set that bit" :D
19:42:06  <frosch123> you should rather explain it as "always set that bit"
19:42:09  <frosch123> :p
19:42:22  <andythenorth> is that the thing where nml is not doing the right thing?
19:42:27  * andythenorth can't remember
19:42:38  <frosch123> yes, nml does not support it
19:42:59  <Pikka> oh
19:43:05  <frosch123> it is consistent, but complicated :p
19:43:26  <Pikka> well
19:43:36  <Pikka> nml not doing the right thing is hardly newgrf's fault ;)
19:44:07  <frosch123> alternative solution would have been to remove callback 15 or 36 for capacity :p
19:44:18  <andythenorth> every time this comes up, my head aches :)
19:44:50  <frosch123> drink more coffee
19:45:37  <Pikka> or more plonk
19:46:18  <Pikka> okay, maybe you do set that bit, if you have a weird default cargo
19:46:18  *** Elukka [] has quit []
19:47:00  <frosch123> just make a industry grf which does not use cargo id 1 :p
19:47:41  <Pikka> perhaps
19:48:17  <Pikka> but once you're past that, you should be using the refitted capacity callback, so the default multipliers, and so 2/3rds of that chart, should be irrelevent.
19:48:32  *** Lacsap [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
19:48:45  <frosch123> see, i recommend the reverse
19:49:07  <frosch123> capacity multipliers are a good thing and subject of the industry grf
19:49:46  *** Lacsap [] has joined #openttd
19:50:41  <Pikka> well, the default multipliers are a bit silly. and not consistent with the default vehicles.
19:51:12  <Pikka> a train passenger wagon doesn't carry 4 times as many units as a train coal wagon.
19:51:57  <Xaroth|Work> depends if it's american or not
19:52:19  <Pikka> or, for a more comparable example, a default goods van doesn't carry twice as many units as a default food van
19:52:35  <Pikka> so why should my refittable van carry twice as many units of goods as food? :P
19:52:43  <andythenorth> hysterical raisins?
19:53:14  <Pikka> but they're unhysterical raisins
19:53:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess the multipliers were meant ot simulate cargo volume
19:53:21  <andythenorth> I got spanked in my last game
19:53:26  <Eddi|zuHause> but they fail at that
19:53:38  <Xaroth|Work> Pikka: it depends on what the units are
19:53:47  <andythenorth> I built *loads* (hundreds) of supply trucks without noticing that the 30t capacity was falling to 15t when refitted
19:53:50  <Eddi|zuHause> like you cannot fit 1 ton of car into the same space as 1 ton of coal
19:54:04  <Xaroth|Work> much more liquid goes into 1m3 than in 1 litre
19:54:35  <Eddi|zuHause> at night it's colder than outside
19:55:10  <Pikka> about a thousand times, xaroth, but what's that got to do with the price of chickens?
19:55:58  <Xaroth|Work> the price of a liquid chicken is different than a m3 of chicken? :)
19:56:43  <andythenorth> there are no chickens, only livestock
19:56:48  <andythenorth> stop talking about chickens
19:56:59  <Pikka> there's nobody here but us livestock
19:57:04  <andythenorth> livestock comes as 'items'
19:57:14  <Xaroth|Work> I prefer mine liquid though
19:57:16  <Pikka> must be breakfast time
19:57:36  <andythenorth> some of those TTD chickens are really heavy btw
19:57:52  <Pikka> concrete chickens (x5)
19:58:24  <Eddi|zuHause> should replace the capacity multipliers with values for "area" and "volume" of one cargo unit
19:59:26  <Eddi|zuHause> like 1 crate would usually take up the "area" space, coal would use up the "weight" space, and wool would take up the "volume" space
19:59:36  <andythenorth> also number of heads
19:59:49  <Pikka> this is all starting to sound like realism talk
20:01:44  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly, but if we don't specify it, authors will just come up with their own scheme, and different schemes won't be compatible
20:01:45  <andythenorth> unicorns!
20:01:59  <andythenorth> drop bears!
20:02:54  <andythenorth> less realism
20:05:11  <Eddi|zuHause> play NUTS!
20:13:18  <Pikka> Eddi|zuHause, "a road/rail vehicle holds approximately 30 units of cargo"
20:13:27  <Pikka> seems to be everyone's scheme, and working okay so far ;)
20:14:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have special rules for passengers and mail, and other vehicles it's mostly based on weight
20:15:33  <Pikka> well, there you go
20:15:34  <Eddi|zuHause> so i have axle weight*number of axles minus wagon weight = capacity
20:15:35  *** Supercheese [~Superchee@] has joined #openttd
20:15:39  <Pikka> the fact is it doesn't really matter
20:15:47  <Eddi|zuHause> but for some cargos it feels "wrong"
20:15:49  <Pikka> so you run four wagons instead of five
20:15:55  <Pikka> definitely realism talk :P
20:15:56  <Eddi|zuHause> especially "cars" and "supplies"
20:18:05  <Pikka> how many cars fit in a car wagon? :P
20:19:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: yes, that's like a special wagon then, which is silly to model if you don't restrict car capacity in "normal" wagons
20:22:02  * andythenorth is stuck
20:22:18  <Pikka> stuck doing what?
20:22:23  <andythenorth> express trucks
20:22:30  <Pikka> implied trucks
20:22:45  <andythenorth> and talking on the phone to my mum
20:22:51  <Pikka> why have express trucks? are there even such things?
20:23:00  <andythenorth> mail, armoured crap
20:23:06  <Pikka> oh, those express trucks
20:23:10  <andythenorth> yeah
20:23:20  <Pikka> put 'em in the curry
20:23:24  <Pikka> or a normal box truck
20:24:41  <andythenorth> hah
20:24:48  <andythenorth> actually all is fine
20:29:15  <andythenorth>  I got confused by trams
20:29:56  <andythenorth> hmm
20:29:57  <andythenorth> containers
20:30:40  <andythenorth> yair
20:30:51  <andythenorth> Squid the container ships have a speed advantage
20:31:00  <andythenorth> IH the container wagons have a capacity advantage
20:31:13  <andythenorth> what to do with a container truck?
20:34:19  <Taede> loading speed?
20:34:35  <frosch123> stack them on top of each other
20:34:46  <frosch123> and disallow travlling under bridges and in tunnels
20:34:47  <frosch123> or so
20:35:16  <andythenorth> ha ha
20:35:24  <andythenorth> you just gave me a railtype idea for IH
20:35:32  <andythenorth> not so much for trucks though :P
20:36:00  <andythenorth> I could do high loading speed
20:36:06  <frosch123> broad gauge with two containers in parralel?
20:36:07  <andythenorth> but nobody ever knows about loading speed
20:36:13  <Pikka> why do they need an advantage?
20:36:23  <andythenorth> because don't know
20:36:32  <andythenorth> because IH and Squid?
20:36:53  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't somebody try to do a "Breitspur" set?
20:38:15  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, xussr does so. afaik
20:38:28  <frosch123> with broad gauge you can fix all the scaling issues :p
20:38:40  <planetmaker> good evening also :)
20:38:45  <Pikka> there are scaling issues?
20:38:48  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no, not that kind of broad gauge. the nazi-german plan to do like a 3m gauge
20:39:01  <frosch123> vehicles being more broad than high and long and such
20:39:10  <Pikka> that'
20:39:11  <Pikka> s
20:39:14  <Pikka> an issue? :P
20:39:21  <frosch123> sometimes :p
20:39:42  <frosch123> mostly for those who render
20:39:47  <andythenorth> hmm
20:40:05  <frosch123> they make highly detailed models, which are then rendered into 5 pixels ro so
20:40:07  <andythenorth> Pikka because simply higher capacity for container truck?
20:40:22  <Pikka> perhaps
20:40:31  <andythenorth> or meh
20:40:39  <Pikka> frosch: why do they do that?
20:40:47  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker:
20:40:56  <frosch123> no idea, i guess they like 3d modelling
20:41:15  <frosch123> some people also use ottd like paint
20:41:21  <frosch123> to build sceneries
20:41:26  <Pikka> some people are silly
20:42:44  <andythenorth> oic
20:42:49  <andythenorth> IH and Squid are inconsistents
20:43:07  <frosch123> is that a good thing?
20:43:10  <frosch123> more variety?
20:44:01  <andythenorth> container ships refit to more cargos than container wagons
20:44:12  <andythenorth> so your containers arrive at a port, but don't go anywhere :P
20:44:19  <andythenorth> except it's just a game of course
20:44:24  <andythenorth> I think those should be kind of consistent
20:45:05  <Pikka> the containers get unpacked at the port perhaps?
20:45:15  <andythenorth> praps
20:45:51  <Pikka> look, a shi(p/t) plan -
20:45:59  <andythenorth> lovely
20:46:13  <andythenorth> no canal boats?
20:46:19  <Pikka> no canal boats
20:46:23  <Pikka> very originalshipslike
20:47:00  <Pikka> now I just need to steal sprites from squid and I'll be done in an afternoon :D
20:47:26  <andythenorth> on with you then
20:47:43  <andythenorth> there are plenty in FISH as well, not all used in Squid
20:48:05  <Pikka> hmm
20:48:18  <Pikka> the difference in size between those fishing boats is negligable, actually
20:48:21  <Pikka> I should change that
20:48:39  <Pikka> or get rid of one of them :D
20:50:08  <andythenorth> just have one
20:50:29  <andythenorth> I found that you could live with just one
20:50:35  <Eddi|zuHause> one of the troubles i had with FISH was to find a train that had the exact same size as a ship and vice versa
20:50:36  <andythenorth> but small and big are nice too, if you're having 30 ships
20:50:40  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: +1
20:50:43  <andythenorth> I stopped caring
20:50:48  <andythenorth> but agree
20:50:49  <Eddi|zuHause> because if they don't match exactly, you have problems with transfering
20:51:00  <andythenorth> I accepted waste :P
20:51:26  <Pikka> andythenorth: if we had "load to at least 85%" orders, right...?
20:51:56  <Eddi|zuHause> "load more than 1 unit of cargo"
20:52:14  <andythenorth> Pikka: never gonna happen
20:52:17  <andythenorth> use conditional orders
20:52:31  <andythenorth> go all the way to a dock on shore, check how much load you have, go back for more
20:52:32  <andythenorth> or less
20:52:48  <Eddi|zuHause> one day i implement this "check whether next order is same as this one before leaving" idea
20:53:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that would solve the partial loading thing with conditional orders
20:53:05  <andythenorth> conditional orders have been provided, so you must use them
20:53:10  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
20:53:10  <andythenorth> there can be no alternatives
20:53:15  <frosch123> and break self regulating networks or so :p
20:53:26  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes. they scare me :p
20:53:56  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: and change block signals to only consider valid paths, to break priorities, while at it :p
20:54:38  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but you can just use waypoints to handle the self regulating network
20:55:00  <andythenorth> transporting valuables in curtain-side trucks!
20:55:04  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: if you're loading at an implicit order, the check would always fail
20:55:04  <andythenorth> no problem with that :P
20:55:54  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, that's insane. But then... if Nationalsozialismus comes into play, it often is
20:56:11  <andythenorth> does anyone ever use the *tractors* in HEQS?
20:56:37  *** sla_ro|master [] has joined #openttd
20:56:48  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the only HEQS vehicles i ever used was the Mog, the trams and one or two wood trucks
20:57:31  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but that's fine, because HEQS is supposed to fill these niche roles, not the "mainstream" truck roals
20:57:36  <Eddi|zuHause> *roles
20:58:51  *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@] has joined #openttd
21:00:22  <andythenorth> so I have 40 trucks, buses and trams
21:00:30  <andythenorth> Pikka can't manage your ruthlessness :P
21:00:49  <planetmaker> HEQS isn't supposed to be streamline :)
21:00:58  <andythenorth> this is 'new'
21:01:03  <planetmaker> It's supposed to be "oh that kind of weired"
21:01:09  <andythenorth> you can also mix with HEQS if you wish ;)
21:01:30  <planetmaker> pew. I thought you were taking the big sword and cut away on HEQS :)
21:01:42  <andythenorth> nah
21:01:48  <andythenorth> HEQS is HEQS
21:02:08  <andythenorth> it's done, except it needs a bug fix
21:07:50  <andythenorth> also bed time
21:07:56  <andythenorth> Pikka chops here tomorrow?
21:08:46  <Pikka> roughly
21:08:52  <andythenorth> k
21:08:55  <andythenorth> bye all
21:08:57  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
21:29:18  *** wakou2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:29:38  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
21:29:52  <Phreeze> 1 more coding and the Diesels are finally done...
21:30:20  <Phreeze> then comes setting of running and purchase costs....arf....
21:30:30  <Phreeze> and fixing pixel errors
21:31:27  <planetmaker> creating a newgrf is little work. Maintaining is the pain ;)
21:31:48  <Phreeze> what must be maintained ?
21:32:45  <Phreeze> do functions or so change ?
21:33:09  <planetmaker> no, ususally not. I meant basically that work which you described
21:33:24  <planetmaker> fine-tuning. fixing the pesky bugs the pesky users find and complain about etc pp
21:33:49  <Supercheese> Hmm, I haven't had almost any bug reports in my few grfs...
21:33:59  <Supercheese> they're pretty small though
21:34:09  <planetmaker> the actual maintenance is little. Like adding the small but useful additions which sometimes emerge
21:34:26  <Supercheese> I am rather lazy in the additions I've promised, though :P
21:35:22  <Phreeze> lol
21:35:55  <planetmaker> yeah. Make sure that you're not swamped with requests :D
21:47:46  *** Lizz [~Lizz@] has joined #openttd
21:52:08  *** Ailure [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:52:57  *** Myhorta [] has joined #openttd
21:58:19  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
22:03:07  <Phreeze> *prepares some feature demands for supercheese*
22:03:19  <Supercheese> O_o
22:03:34  <Phreeze> [22:35:57] @planetmaker )) yeah. Make sure that you're not swamped with requests :D
22:09:24  <__ln__> he's already working on a high-priority project that'll guarantee great sales figures for openttd in the roman empire.
22:12:07  *** welshdragoon [] has joined #openttd
22:12:27  *** welshdragoon [] has quit []
22:12:34  *** welshdragon [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:12:48  *** Aristide [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:13:27  *** welshdragon [] has joined #openttd
22:16:00  <planetmaker> indeed.... how's that translation going, Supercheese ?
22:16:53  <planetmaker> Dice, quot est tuum progressum?
22:20:01  <Supercheese> eh... non laboravi hoc anno; pensum magnum universitats obstabat
22:20:11  <Supercheese> universitatis*
22:20:47  <Supercheese> Hmm, I doubt the Romans used semicolons, I wonder when those were "invented"
22:21:09  <Supercheese> 1494 it seems
22:21:14  <planetmaker> oh, tristis audiens
22:21:47  <Supercheese> Hah, this is an amazing figure:
22:21:58  <Supercheese> "A graph showing the frequency of semicolon use in English between 1500 and 2008"
22:22:10  <planetmaker> omnie annu?
22:23:33  <frosch123> Supercheese: that clearly does not take programming languages into consideration
22:23:40  <Supercheese> :D
22:24:16  <Supercheese> Well, spring break is next week for me, I'll make some time then
22:24:34  <planetmaker> :)
22:26:08  <planetmaker> Omnia orbs expectant ludus in latinam :)
22:26:27  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
22:27:55  *** TheIJ [~rita@] has quit [Quit: BRB!]
22:29:41  *** Myhorta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:31:50  *** TheIJ [~rita@] has joined #openttd
22:33:26  <Supercheese> Laetificor hoc audire
22:36:40  <frosch123> @op
22:36:43  *** mode/#openttd [+o frosch123] by DorpsGek
22:36:57  *** frosch123 changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.4.0-beta5, 1.3.3 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
22:37:00  <frosch123> @deop
22:37:03  *** mode/#openttd [-o frosch123] by DorpsGek
22:39:38  <__ln__> solum anglicus?
22:46:13  <Eddi|zuHause> did the romans really have a name for that language that would later become english?
22:46:57  <frosch123> sure
22:47:07  <frosch123> roman emporors were mostly travellers from the future
22:48:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean anglian was probably some early danish dialect and saxon some early lower german dialect
22:49:58  <Eddi|zuHause> and it displaced the gaelic dialects that the population of britain probably spoke (i don't think latin was actually that widespread around the population)
22:52:36  <Eddi|zuHause> (the old saxon that formed the foundation of english has no relation whatsoever with the modern day saxon, as not the saxon people moved, but the name "saxony" moved)
23:02:54  <Wolf01> 'night
23:03:00  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:03:56  *** Lacsap [] has quit [Quit: Lacsap]
23:04:18  *** Aristide [] has joined #openttd
23:05:08  <Phreeze> wtf
23:05:14  <Phreeze> people speaking latin...
23:17:41  <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> creating a newgrf is little work. Maintaining is the pain ;) <-- any software development lecture will tell you that maintenance is 90% of the work
23:22:49  <Eddi|zuHause>  <Supercheese> Hah, this is an amazing figure: <-- the most interesting thing in there is that the early sample size is too low to get useful figures out of them, which balances out somewhere around 1700
23:23:44  <Eddi|zuHause> the bump after 2000 is probably winky smilies :p
23:25:17  *** sla_ro|master [] has quit []
23:30:07  <Phreeze> ^^
23:32:26  <Eddi|zuHause> also it probably only counts printed books, not hand-written books, and especially nothing from roman times
23:34:02  <Phreeze> still, they didn't use it so much
23:34:06  <Phreeze> it's useless anyway :D
23:34:22  <Phreeze> we didn't even learn it at school
23:34:31  <Phreeze> it's Schmarrn
23:36:09  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe your schools are just bad? :p
23:36:24  <Phreeze> nope ;)
23:36:26  <Phreeze>
23:36:32  <Phreeze> watching those "extreme trains" series
23:36:37  <Eddi|zuHause> which language do your schools teach in, anyway?
23:36:43  <Phreeze> really cool, but the guy is hyperactive xD
23:36:52  <Phreeze> german
23:36:57  <Phreeze> and later, french
23:37:02  <frosch123> i definitely used ; in school
23:37:03  <Phreeze> and/or german, depends
23:37:15  <frosch123> anyway, do you also have a usage chart for @
23:37:31  <Phreeze> @, for emails xD
23:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> or "#"
23:37:50  <Eddi|zuHause> or "~"
23:37:54  <Phreeze> ñ ? ;)
23:38:03  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody in englushed used "~" before win95 :)
23:38:07  <Phreeze> was zum henker lernt ihr da..
23:38:15  <Eddi|zuHause> *english used*
23:38:48  <Pinkbeast> cd ~damerell
23:39:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: nobody uses linux :p
23:39:26  <Phreeze> <- works in IT, uses windows everywhere xd
23:39:29  <frosch123> yeah, only weirdos use linux
23:39:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: that's used in spanish, but not in english
23:39:37  <Phreeze> (k, my server running my mailserver is ubuntu...)
23:39:39  <frosch123> they probably even play train games
23:39:56  <Phreeze> i know eddi ;)
23:40:01  <Phreeze> i speak 5 languages^^
23:40:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: Angeber :p
23:40:12  <Phreeze> *understand
23:40:21  <Phreeze> speaking/writing only 4
23:40:31  <Phreeze> my spanish is limited to 2 years in school..
23:40:48  <frosch123> i can read greek and cyrillic, does that count?
23:40:50  <Eddi|zuHause> that is pretty much the same here
23:41:07  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: if by "read" you mean "decipher the letters"?
23:41:08  <Phreeze> greek and cyrillic....woooot
23:41:18  <Phreeze> read = understand what you read ^^
23:41:28  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yes, decipher
23:41:38  <Phreeze> i can decipher Ultima Runes ^^
23:41:48  <frosch123> but that is enough for navigating software
23:41:54  <Eddi|zuHause> my russian vocabulary probably consists of 5 words
23:42:13  <Phreeze> da
23:42:14  <Phreeze> niet
23:42:16  <Phreeze> vodka
23:42:21  <Phreeze> nastrowie
23:42:28  <Phreeze> kurwa
23:42:31  <Phreeze> or so...
23:42:35  <Pinkbeast> Linux didn't exist the first time I typed cd ~
23:42:50  <Phreeze> Pinkbeast must be 90...
23:43:15  <Pinkbeast> That would follow because... wait, what?
23:44:36  <frosch123> maybe the world was created in 90...
23:45:17  <Phreeze> world (and USA) was created 2014 years ago
23:45:25  <Phreeze> :D i saw it on the internet ;)
23:45:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: when the russian military pulled out of germany, we had a russian woman living with us for a while, who wasn't really fond of moving to Murmansk with her husband, and she used the word "kuschei" a lot (which means something like "eat!"). and us kids would always reply with "se" :p
23:46:14  <Phreeze> se, which would say: GTFO ^^
23:46:40  <Phreeze> ??
23:46:51  <Phreeze> hm caracters not displaying...mirc is too old...
23:47:02  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you have to speak the words outloud together :)
23:48:03  <Eddi|zuHause> tip: it's not a russian word :)
23:48:21  <Phreeze> ah omg
23:48:44  <Phreeze> late in the evening...but must finish that trains episode^^
23:53:51  *** Phreeze is now known as PhreeZZZZzzzz
23:53:55  <PhreeZZZZzzzz> <-bed
23:54:26  *** ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz
23:55:25  <planetmaker> oh no... away nicks :P
23:55:58  *** frosch123 is now known as frosch_awake
23:56:15  <Eddi|zuHause> PhreeZZZZzzzz: how can you suffer watching this for more than 2 minutes?
23:57:33  <frosch_awake> away nicks are so pessimistic
23:57:55  <frosch_awake> everyone should have around nicks
23:59:05  *** JdGordon| [] has joined #openttd
23:59:40  <Eddi|zuHause> <- what do you think this is? :p

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk