Log for #openttd on 15th March 2014:
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00:00:46  *** montalvo [] has joined #openttd
00:00:46  <Wolf01> 'night all
00:00:51  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
00:00:56  <planetmaker> Gooby, as shows still all servers it must be network issue on your end
00:01:15  <planetmaker> especially when it worked for you before :)
00:01:41  <Gooby> planetmaker: well, i can't reach, for some reason
00:01:45  <Gooby> my browser times out
00:01:57  <Gooby> so that's gotta have something to do with it
00:02:14  <Gooby> thanks for the link
00:05:40  <Supercheese> Seems like you have Soundtrack #13 syndrome: "Can't get There from Here"
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00:11:03  <Supercheese> or, at least your packets do
00:15:26  <Gooby> lol :)
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00:43:25  <Gooby> see you!
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01:07:23  <britdude92> Morning
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01:15:31  <Eddi|zuHause> damn, i was sooo close to 2048 :/
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01:17:29  <Afdal> hey paesanos
01:17:48  <Afdal> Anyone know if it would be possible to make a newGRF that changes signal behavior?
01:21:04  <Supercheese> only a source code patch could do that
01:22:04  <Afdal> darn
01:22:09  <Afdal> too bad :(
01:25:29  <Hazzard> Make a NOT signal
01:25:31  <Hazzard> :D
01:26:02  <Afdal> Yeah
01:26:09  <Afdal> That's exactly what I'm interested in
01:26:32  <Afdal> Tired of you no-breakdowns fellas hoarding all the cool stuff
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01:28:12  <Hazzard> Really?
01:28:15  <planetmaker> Afdal, with the existing signals you can build a full ALU
01:28:27  <Afdal> ALU?
01:28:39  <planetmaker> or full adder. ALU = algorithmic unit
01:28:44  <Supercheese> someone designed a turing-complete network using OTTD signals, IIRC
01:28:52  <Afdal> Yeah I know all about that stuff
01:28:53  <planetmaker> yeah. coopers did :D
01:28:58  <Afdal> but you need breakdowns off
01:29:07  <Afdal> in order for logic constructions to work right
01:29:08  <Hazzard> Hmm
01:29:10  <Supercheese> well, yeah
01:29:15  <Afdal> that's why a NOT signal would be nice
01:29:40  <planetmaker> what gameplay purpose other than complete nerdyness would it serve?
01:29:55  <Hazzard> Yeah...
01:29:56  <Afdal> there's all sorts of uses for not setups :3
01:30:01  <Afdal> one is splitting trains
01:30:11  <planetmaker> I take a chainsaw for that :P
01:30:15  <Afdal> oh u
01:30:29  <planetmaker> I lied. A welding laser is better
01:30:46  <Supercheese> I prefer Southern Thunder
01:30:55  <Supercheese> splits 'em right good
01:31:53  <planetmaker> the only path to a not signal I can see is, if someone actually devise a workable and non-tabular way to display programmable signals and their inter relation easily, also on the map - without the need to click every signal to get to know what it does
01:32:28  <Afdal> you mean making the interface friendly?
01:32:41  <planetmaker> yes. A usable interface
01:32:47  <Afdal> well
01:32:52  <Afdal> it would just be a simple newGRF
01:32:57  <Afdal> for advanced users
01:33:01  <Afdal> if it were possible -_-
01:33:16  <planetmaker> good. Go ahead and design the interface for generally programmable signals
01:33:17  <Afdal> I'd just replace the two-way path signal with it
01:33:32  <planetmaker> ok, *that* way we don't even need to continue to talk
01:33:51  <Afdal> sadly it doesn't seem to be
01:33:59  <Afdal> bummer man
01:34:22  <Afdal> Unless you think it is possible?
01:34:28  <planetmaker> thus I told you: go and devise a usable UI for generally programmable signals. That's the way you *might* have success
01:34:31  <Afdal> to change signal behavior with a newGRF, planetmaker?
01:34:45  <planetmaker> not newgr
01:34:47  <planetmaker> f
01:34:50  <Afdal> aww
01:34:52  <Afdal> okay
01:35:38  <Hazzard> New UI would be useful anyway, even if there was no not signal
01:36:02  <planetmaker> what would you gain by a new UI for the existing signals, Hazzard ?
01:36:58  <planetmaker> andyway, also for you Hazzard: if you want a new UI, the least everyone can do: make actual mock-ups on how it should look like and work
01:37:07  <Hazzard> Yup
01:37:09  <planetmaker> that needs no programming experience, just a graphics programme
01:37:37  <planetmaker> it need not be pretty, but it need to show the concept(s)
01:38:00  <planetmaker> and explain why that way and not the existing :)
01:38:18  <Hazzard> Also, two way PBS is actually really useful
01:38:41  <Afdal> for penalties
01:38:48  <planetmaker> no. For signaling
01:38:52  <Afdal> but there's plenty of other ways to do penalties
01:38:54  <Afdal> o rly?
01:38:59  <planetmaker> o rly!
01:39:05  <Afdal> What else do you use it for?
01:39:06  <planetmaker> two-way roro
01:39:10  <Afdal> baaah
01:39:24  <Afdal> What does one of those look like :3
01:39:31  <planetmaker> also called simple in-line stations
01:39:41  <planetmaker> =x=ssss=x=
01:39:56  <planetmaker> where = is track; x is x-junction and s is station
01:40:00  <Afdal> No I mean
01:40:04  <Afdal> got an example :3
01:40:17  <Afdal> I know you hang with the openttdcoop crowd
01:40:59  <planetmaker> <-- first, simplest station
01:41:06  <Hazzard>
01:41:07  <Hazzard> :D
01:41:18  <planetmaker> also the "combined and roro station"
01:41:25  <Afdal> two-way station like that doesn't seem like the greatest idea
01:41:38  <Afdal> kind of defeats the strength of a roro station doesn't it
01:41:39  <planetmaker> the path signaling there is more efficient than block signaling
01:41:47  <planetmaker> it doesn't
01:41:54  <planetmaker> depends on your network
01:41:56  <Hazzard> But actually, that's not what I was talking about
01:42:02  <Afdal> :o
01:42:08  <planetmaker> and your time tabling
01:42:10  <Afdal> What were you talking about?
01:43:19  <planetmaker> anyway. The discussion is moot: there's no way an existing signal type will be removed. Ever.
01:43:31  <Afdal> gosh I:}
01:43:46  <Hazzard> two way pbs can be used to turn block signals into pbs signals
01:43:52  <Afdal> I wasn't asking for it to be
01:44:02  <Afdal> just interested in a gain-of-function newgrf or something
01:44:20  <Afdal> yeah but why would you use that?
01:44:27  <Afdal> over a one-way path signal?
01:44:33  <planetmaker> and forget the word 'newgrf' in conjunction with how signals work. That's also an extremely unlikely thing to happen
01:44:40  <Afdal> o-okay -_-
01:45:35  <planetmaker> it needs interaction with the path finder directly. Thus that's where you need to work on, internally when dealing with signal types
01:45:53  <planetmaker> that's not newgrf terrain
01:45:58  <Afdal> I see
01:58:31  <Hazzard> Is it possible to make a train that doesn't break down?
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01:59:03  <Afdal> doubt it
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05:17:58  <rubidium> good morning Celestar ;)
05:19:47  <Flygon> Hazzard: Change the advanced settings
05:19:55  <Flygon> Search 'breakdown'
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06:28:27  <Celestar> good morning :P
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06:58:29  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, i actually managed the 2048
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07:05:06  <andythenorth> o/
07:08:13  <Celestar> :D
07:11:49  <andythenorth> did anyone get 2048 yet?
07:16:06  <peter1139> 06:58 < Eddi|zuHause> oh, i actually managed the 2048
07:17:21  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with this game is, even if you employ a useful strategy, the randomness can get you into situations where it totally screws you over
07:17:26  <peter1139> Yes
07:17:37  <peter1139> Damn it, updated my pi, now it won't boot :S
07:20:59  <peter1139> Err... put HDMI on it... and now it boots. wtf?
07:21:42  <rubidium> DRM?
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08:06:00  <andythenorth> hurr
08:06:05  <andythenorth> I have to do offsets :(
08:06:07  <andythenorth> I hate offsets
08:08:22  <V453000> hahaaa
08:08:23  <V453000> :P
08:08:40  <V453000> I hate that tooo actually :)
08:10:21  * peter1139 offsets andythenorth's offsets with V453000's offsets.
08:10:41  <V453000> you could use my templates but hm! :D I got like 30 of them
08:15:16  <V453000> the wetrail template is especially good! :P
08:16:01  <andythenorth> do you have a big 'trucks' template? o_O
08:17:19  <andythenorth> on the plus side all the offsets are already in HEQS
08:17:34  <andythenorth> on the minus side, HEQS spritesheets aren't consistent :(
08:17:40  <V453000> oh god you got bored with train newgrf already? :D
08:18:07  <andythenorth> just have to set costs and fix the bugs
08:18:10  <andythenorth> so yeah
08:18:17  <andythenorth> no point doing either of those :P
08:18:22  <andythenorth> it's good enough for MP games now
08:19:03  <V453000> what is it good at? :)
08:19:09  <V453000> me wants DESCRIPTION =D
08:19:20  <V453000> fill me with information!
08:20:07  <andythenorth> it's good at being trains
08:20:09  <andythenorth> not too many
08:20:12  <andythenorth> but more than none
08:20:23  <V453000> something else specific? :D
08:21:09  <andythenorth> not really
08:21:11  <andythenorth> just another train set
08:21:18  <V453000> hm.
08:24:39  * andythenorth tries harder
08:24:42  <andythenorth> good at
08:24:48  <andythenorth> - not being too realistics
08:25:03  <V453000> it actually looks quite good andythenorth
08:25:06  <andythenorth> - trying to mostly have one obvious engine choice for any route
08:25:10  <V453000> not just yet another
08:25:40  <V453000> the trains improve over time, there is minimum of "useless" engines due to their bad numbers, only thing I am missing is fast modern trains
08:25:42  <andythenorth> - having a choice of wagon types for most cargos, but one obviously best
08:25:58  <andythenorth> there are some faster engines, but not until 2000 ish
08:26:02  <andythenorth> and only 155mph
08:26:35  <andythenorth> - auto-refit, but no broken auto-refits, and nothing that changes appearance stupidly
08:26:43  <V453000> I see, 1990
08:26:47  <V453000> yeah that is solid
08:27:02  <V453000> no words bout autorefit :)
08:27:14  <andythenorth> - matches Squid
08:27:41  <V453000> yeah, nice simple little train set :)
08:27:47  <andythenorth> V453000: are you -1 on wagon speed limits?
08:28:06  <V453000> yeah I think train should set the speed, with wagon speed limits nothing else matters but power/TE
08:28:26  <V453000> or at least, I am absolutely -1 on wagon speed limits for different cargoes in different values
08:28:48  <andythenorth> all IH wagons come in generations
08:28:53  <V453000> if something, then at least - 1st generation of wagons available together: 50kmh, 2nd generation: 60, ...
08:28:58  <V453000> yeah I see that
08:29:15  <andythenorth> there is one useless 3,300hp freight engine
08:29:25  <andythenorth> it only does 80mph, so nobody would choose it
08:29:35  <andythenorth> it's badly balanced, but I like the name :P
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08:30:09  <V453000> the gridiron?
08:30:32  <andythenorth> yeah
08:30:38  <andythenorth> if the wagons were 80mph it would make sense
08:30:41  <andythenorth> they used to be
08:30:51  <V453000> hm I would make the screamer come later
08:30:52  <andythenorth> but then either me and Dan made a decision, or I broke the codebase :P
08:30:54  <V453000> like  2010
08:31:00  <peter1139> freight weight multiplier!
08:31:06  <peter1139> or 40-long trains
08:31:19  <V453000> and gridirons, I would put them earlier so they are closer to vulcan/electra
08:31:44  <andythenorth> the screamer is quite badass
08:31:50  <andythenorth> but I get bored waiting for the good stuff
08:31:57  <andythenorth> by 1990 I want all the big fast things + win
08:32:19  <V453000> well then I would move the gridiron to lower date
08:32:25  <andythenorth> 1970 or so
08:32:30  <andythenorth> I think freight cars should be 90mph
08:32:33  <andythenorth> for that generation
08:32:51  <peter1139> Don't you people all play with wagons peed limits off anyway?
08:32:53  <V453000> I will just ignore speed limits :P
08:34:02  <andythenorth> hmm
08:34:11  * andythenorth back to trucks
08:34:25  <peter1139> One of the reasons I didn't like the openttdcoop games :p
08:35:13  <V453000> I dont see the problem with trains which run quick in the 200-300 km/h, which is fun
08:36:38  <peter1139> Yup, it all depends how people want to play.
08:36:59  <andythenorth> nml can now handle transparent pngs?
08:37:02  <andythenorth> I never knew
08:37:03  <andythenorth> :P
08:37:34  * andythenorth ponders CanalRoadTypes
08:40:12  <V453000> wetroads? :D
08:40:25  <V453000> that isnt much of an answer peter1139  (:
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08:49:59  <Celestar> wtf is 2048?
08:50:58  <__ln___>
08:51:34  <andythenorth> there goes your morning
08:52:18  <__ln___> and evening
08:52:37  <andythenorth> and tomorrow
08:55:10  <__ln___> and next week
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09:15:00  <SkeedR> Hello people
09:15:25  <SkeedR> Is there a full change log for 1.4.0 from the previous stable version available anywhere?
09:15:52  <planetmaker> good morning
09:16:06  <planetmaker> SkeedR, no, there isn't. But mostly due to the fact that there is no 1.4.0 as of now
09:16:31  <SkeedR> Well, ok, for up to Beta 5?
09:17:48  <planetmaker> SkeedR, did you look at the changelog.txt which ships with your OpenTTD :)
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09:18:30  <SkeedR> aha, didn't realise that is part of the zip
09:18:34  <SkeedR> Thanks planetmaker
09:18:57  <planetmaker> you're welcome. That was easy ;)
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09:20:06  <SkeedR> Someone's finally fixed restoring the object build window to it's previous open state...
09:20:37  <planetmaker> no, not really. But you can store the size for most windows now
09:26:11  <andythenorth> bloody 2048
09:29:55  <planetmaker> try 4096 :P
09:32:07  <andythenorth> hmm
09:32:08  <andythenorth> no :)
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09:34:31  <andythenorth>
09:35:42  <__ln___> 2048 ought to be enough for anyone
09:35:55  <Flygon> Real men use 8192
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09:35:57  <Flygon>
09:36:12  <Flygon> Playing an Oceania+Asia map @ 8912*8192 would be bitchin'
09:36:26  <Flygon> ...I'm allowed to say that word in a complimentary sense here, right?
09:36:34  <planetmaker> Flygon, real man would crash a 8192 map ;)
09:36:39  <Flygon> Probably
09:36:46  <andythenorth> 2048 is not enough
09:36:49  <Flygon> I've already crashed OTTD on a 2048 map
09:36:54  <planetmaker> or write a patch which would make it possible to acutally make them work
09:36:55  <andythenorth> although I still haven't beaten 2048
09:36:58  <Flygon> Probably because my PC is so very old
09:37:25  <Flygon> Though
09:37:36  <Flygon> If we're gonna do ultragiant maps on real world locations
09:37:38  <andythenorth> I'm convinced I have the winning strategy, but I didn't win
09:37:47  <Flygon> We're going to need a method of putting all three clients into one
09:37:50  <Flygon> ...
09:37:51  <Flygon> climates
09:38:46  <planetmaker> that method needs a rewritten map array
09:38:58  <Flygon> Which means we're boned?
09:39:08  <planetmaker> no
09:39:21  <planetmaker> it means it's more work than just 'add that one bit'
09:39:48  <Flygon> Which means we're boned :P
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09:41:35  <V453000> real men make CPU cry on 256x256
09:41:52  <planetmaker> at least!
09:41:55  <Phreeze> lol
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09:44:12  <Flygon> V453000: Easy
09:44:14  <Flygon> Boats.
09:44:18  <Flygon> 65,000 boats.
09:44:22  <V453000> I meant with trains only but yeah
09:44:45  <Phreeze> why boats ?
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09:44:53  <V453000> easy to spam them
09:45:00  <V453000> and they eat shitload of cpu
09:45:00  <Phreeze> ah yeah k
09:45:02  <V453000> or at least used to
09:45:04  <Flygon> Crapload of pathfinding needed
09:45:08  <Flygon> Nah, they still do
09:45:10  <Phreeze> for a boat ?
09:45:15  <Phreeze> go....1 direction
09:45:16  <Flygon> It's how I crashed by 2048*2048 game
09:45:18  <Phreeze> and dock on
09:45:34  <Flygon> I should send you my Europe .sav
09:45:42  <Phreeze> yoshi's new island arrived :>
09:45:44  <Flygon> I'll do it later when I'm not working on art and streaming music
09:45:54  <Phreeze> now i got 4 3ds games i haven't even started yet...NEED TIME
09:45:58  <Phreeze> should stop going to work...
09:46:02  <Flygon> Nuuu
09:46:04  <Flygon> YOU MUST WORK
09:46:24  <Phreeze> for the goodness of myself, people should start thinking at work
09:46:36  <Phreeze> i work in IT, and they always got the same shithead problems
09:46:44  <Phreeze> even some like "my screen is black"
09:46:52  <Flygon> Oh
09:46:52  <Flygon> IT
09:46:53  <Phreeze> "turn it on" . "i have" check cables - i have
09:46:56  <Flygon> Yeah, mate
09:46:58  <Flygon> Retire
09:47:03  <Phreeze> going to the office...pushing cable completely
09:47:04  <Flygon> D:
09:47:08  <Phreeze> i'm 30 ^^
09:47:32  <Flygon> You got 9 years on me
09:47:53  <Flygon> So I remember The Fresh Prince but not KITT
09:47:58  <Phreeze> buhh
09:48:04  <Phreeze> i was allowed to watch KITT, then go to bed :)
09:48:09  <Phreeze> at 19h00 ^^
09:48:22  <Phreeze> moreover: i played original TT ;)
09:48:28  <Flygon> I er
09:48:32  * Flygon glances at name
09:48:32  <Flygon> Yeah
09:48:47  <Phreeze> at the time, i was 11.
09:49:00  <Flygon> So was I x.x
09:49:00  <Phreeze> i wanted the game so bad, i played the demo like 100 times, no kidding
09:49:10  <Phreeze> demo was limited to trains and 2 years of playing
09:49:14  <Flygon> Oh man
09:49:21  <Flygon> I remember playing AoEII demo extensively
09:49:26  <Phreeze> i couldnt find the game in the local shops!!!!
09:49:41  <Flygon> Why not mail order?
09:49:49  <Phreeze> i asked my dad to buy it froma shop in germany, as there were always the ads in the computer magazines
09:49:58  <Flygon> Oh man...
09:50:03  <Phreeze> he said "that's dangerous, they could just keep the money and send nothing!"
09:50:03  <Flygon> I'm old enough to remember mail order
09:50:11  <Flygon> Australia was behind the times so baaaad
09:50:18  <Flygon> Now we lead the world in... Facebooking
09:50:22  <Flygon> We're a nation of mustached idiots
09:50:24  <Phreeze> 1 year later, i got it from a friend, it was in a bundle with theme park
09:50:31  <Phreeze> best day of my life, no kidding
09:50:42  <Phreeze> xD
09:50:50  <Flygon> Buggered if I remember the best day of my life
09:50:58  <Phreeze> wait... so you're going to bed in an hour or so ^^
09:51:01  <Flygon> Er, don't take that literally
09:51:11  <Phreeze> [10:50:59] Phreeze )) <--
09:52:33  <Flygon> I just got the stupidest idea ever
09:52:56  <Phreeze> orly ?
09:53:06  <Flygon> Downloading files via those machines that reply back to your calls then tell you to talk after the beep
09:53:17  <Flygon> Then you send the download via the phoneline like dial-up while the tape records it
09:53:36  <Phreeze> rrr
09:53:45  <Phreeze> ....we live in 2014 not 1986
09:53:53  <Flygon> And then you play the recording back to your computer
09:54:04  <Phreeze> that's C64 style
09:54:06  <Flygon> Nah man
09:54:13  <Flygon> We do it VIC-20 style!!!
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09:57:22  <Flygon> I should feel evil for streaming music from a machine with two CPUs and over 64kbytes of RAM!
09:57:34  <Phreeze> lol
09:57:55  <Flygon> Good thing it's not a PC!
09:58:02  <Phreeze> i feel evil for having 8 logical cpus and even with 2 games and 20 tab browser + ++ + + it's not even near half load xD
09:59:45  <Flygon> I remember having a Celeron once
09:59:49  <Flygon> 2.4GHz Single Core
09:59:53  <Flygon> Worst CPU ever
10:00:00  <Flygon> It overheated without any of the P4's perks
10:01:25  <Phreeze> was shit
10:01:34  <Phreeze> first own cpu was a duron 650 OC at 950 ;)
10:01:37  <Phreeze> was cool enough
10:01:52  <Phreeze> later had athlon XP and the last AMD was an opteron
10:02:08  <Flygon> Ah, yes
10:02:15  <Phreeze> then AMD was so shitdete that i stuck to intel core2quad and more
10:02:18  <Flygon> I had an Athlon XP before the Celeron (diff PC)
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10:02:30  <Flygon> Eh, my PC life is long and convoluted
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10:05:19  <planetmaker> <Phreeze> first own cpu was a duron 650 OC at 950 ;) <--- oh, that is extremely fast. Compared to my first own, a 12 MHz 286 intel one :P
10:05:50  <Phreeze> i mean, the first i bought myself
10:06:02  <Phreeze> first one we used was a 286, dont know how many mhz
10:06:14  <Phreeze> first one i really used more was a 386 with 25mhz
10:06:35  <Phreeze> then 486 dx50, which we had until my dad bought 3000euro P 133 !
10:06:52  <Phreeze> i got the 486, which was fine for Transport tycoon and maaaaaaaaaaaaany dos games
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10:07:00  <planetmaker> we already had Euros back then?
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10:07:03  <Phreeze> civ, colonization, every sid meier game
10:07:09  <Phreeze> indycar and nascar racing
10:07:19  <Phreeze> (it was 125000 LUF )
10:07:22  <Phreeze> smartie :P
10:07:30  <Wolf01> hi hi
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10:30:37  <andythenorth> ho ho
10:30:39  <andythenorth> choosing names
10:31:23  <V453000> :)
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10:43:58  <andythenorth> hmm
10:44:05  <andythenorth> maybe the ID should just read from the filename :P
10:46:36  <andythenorth> hmm
10:46:42  <andythenorth> __name__ is namespaced :P
10:46:48  <andythenorth> makes sense
10:46:51  <andythenorth> but not what I want
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10:51:25  <andythenorth> quak
10:54:01  <frosch123> moin
11:21:43  <planetmaker> quak
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11:35:12  <fonsinchen> My old powerbook's stability apparently depends on a piece of cigarette filter I've used as insulation in the power supply. Every once in a while that thing deteriorates and has to be replaced. Great fun
11:38:51  <planetmaker> lol. That sounds like fun indeed
11:44:04  <fonsinchen> Took me a while to find out why it had "good" and "bad" days.
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12:37:03  <Phreeze> supercheese, supercheese. you're supercheesing
12:37:56  <Phreeze>
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14:01:32  <andythenorth> planetmaker: does ogfx+ trains have any refitting restrictions?
14:01:58  <planetmaker> of course it has refitting restrictions. It uses 'realistic' refits
14:02:06  <planetmaker> some work in stations, some in depots, some not at all
14:02:51  <planetmaker> some cost more, some cost less. Refits in stations don't change looks. Refits in depots can change it slightly
14:02:53  <andythenorth> wondering if that's the cause of that report, or some other broken autorefit thing
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15:17:29  <Zplinter> wow, i sure dident expect so much people here.
15:17:46  <planetmaker> all idling here :P
15:19:08  <Celestar> no, I'm not
15:19:13  <Celestar> I'm idling over there.
15:19:44  <planetmaker> oh right :P
15:20:26  <Celestar> so how are the planets coming along, anyway?
15:20:58  <planetmaker> they grow. Even beyond the m-size and bouncing barriers. And there are many available :P
15:21:18  <Celestar> pity that Kepler is basically dead :(
15:22:05  <planetmaker> 'basically dead'?
15:22:34  <Celestar> the space probe, not the human.
15:22:44  <planetmaker> oh, yeah
15:22:45  <NGC3982> Seirosly.
15:22:51  <NGC3982> %&€/%.
15:22:54  <NGC3982>
15:23:04  <NGC3982> This turned out to be -unsolvable-.
15:23:25  <Celestar> haha
15:25:02  <planetmaker> looks like the manager has told all cars to stop. And the industry thus doesn't produce?
15:25:20  <NGC3982> They are jammed in a direction where they can not turn
15:25:27  <NGC3982> And i can't force them, since it's one way
15:25:42  <NGC3982> And i can not remove the one-way.
15:25:50  <planetmaker> tja :)
15:25:56  <planetmaker> bad luck, eh? :)
15:26:13  <Celestar> fire up a debugger and remove the vehicles :P
15:26:21  <planetmaker> lol
15:26:22  <NGC3982> And it's a never ending multiplayer server map.
15:26:43  <NGC3982> Sure, it's my own server. I guess i could bancrupt myself
15:26:45  <planetmaker> consider it extra expenses :P
15:26:49  <Celestar> :P
15:26:59  <Celestar> well you could hope for the industry to die
15:27:09  <Celestar> since it is 'never ending' at some point it WILL die
15:27:37  <NGC3982> It's a new company. I could build an expensive non-profit maglev that bancrupts me, so that i at least can start over.
15:28:17  <Taede> its your server, just rcon reset_company <company-id>
15:28:25  <NGC3982> That's no fun.
15:28:25  <NGC3982> :D
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15:28:44  <planetmaker> yeah. bancruptcy allows to pass-on the problem to another company :P
15:29:02  <Taede> you could put a random number 1-15 for company-id
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15:29:56  <planetmaker> while (1) { sleep(random(1000000)); reset_company(random(15); }
15:29:58  <planetmaker> :P
15:30:10  <NGC3982> That worked.
15:30:10  <Celestar> :D :D
15:30:13  <NGC3982> Hehe.
15:31:25  <planetmaker> back to canal shores
15:31:49  <Celestar> well I'm off again ;)
15:32:05  <planetmaker> enjoy, Celestar
15:32:14  <Celestar> U-2
15:33:18  <planetmaker> looks ok as canal shore?
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15:33:59  <NGC3982> Very.
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16:44:19  <commanderz> hi guys, is there any documentation on adding new settings to the game? This odd code generator thing wasn't there last time I was digging in the code years ago :)
16:47:57  <Eddi|zuHause> commanderz: settings go into src/table/settings.ini. if you have old code to convert, you can match them to the template at the beginning of the file
16:48:28  * andythenorth ponders building 2048 in the game :P
16:48:38  <andythenorth> think it could be done
16:48:48  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: with logic trains? :p
16:48:58  <andythenorth> something like that
16:49:07  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: good case for 'shunting'? o_O
16:49:17  <Eddi|zuHause> hehe :)
16:49:51  <Eddi|zuHause> but max length might be 128 vehicles
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16:51:46  <commanderz> Eddi|zuHause: I'm adding a new one. I added it to the settings.ini file, but it doesn't show up ingame. And I can't figure out how do I specify where in the advanced settings tree is the setting being added.
16:52:22  <Eddi|zuHause> commanderz: there is also settings_gui.cpp if you want to show it in advanced settings
16:52:54  <Eddi|zuHause> (that part did not change with the generator)
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17:24:12  <andythenorth> hmm
17:24:18  <andythenorth> two objects, with repetitioj
17:24:22  <andythenorth> repetition *
17:24:34  <andythenorth> or two objects, plus a mixin.  More 'stuff', less repetition
17:24:57  <Eddi|zuHause> ask me in 3 days
17:30:40  <andythenorth> can I have an answer in 2?
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17:32:39  <andythenorth> I could do multiple inheritance, but ugh
17:32:57  <planetmaker> evenink
17:34:18  <Alberth> 'oi
17:34:30  <commanderz> Eddi|zuHause: Thanks, it works now.
17:34:58  <planetmaker> big 32bpp files are big...
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17:35:47  <planetmaker> landscape source file meanwhile at a size of 180MByte
17:39:53  <Alberth> woops :)
17:40:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i feel so inferior with my 5MB of CETS :/
17:40:19  <planetmaker> but pota-ghat might now be in a state that it 'works' as first release
17:58:03  <planetmaker> hm. Push took 25 minutes
17:58:22  <Eddi|zuHause> get faster internets
17:58:35  <planetmaker> yeah. not exactly fast what I have
18:06:55  <Alberth> good excuse for some tea :)
18:07:24  <planetmaker> actually, good excuse now to prepare some dinner. Which includes tea :)
18:07:35  <Alberth> even better :)
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18:45:24  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26402 /trunk/src/lang (croatian.txt welsh.txt) (2014-03-15 18:45:16 UTC)
18:45:25  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:26  <DorpsGek> croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:27  <DorpsGek> welsh - 8 changes by kazzie
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19:22:27  <andythenorth> hmm
19:22:37  <andythenorth> I can make a trailer mixin for the trailing parts
19:22:48  <andythenorth> that will solve it
19:23:35  * andythenorth waves at his teddybear
19:24:42  <Alberth> all teddybears wave back
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19:33:56  * andythenorth reads about python multiple inheritance
19:35:02  <andythenorth> "It is clear that indiscriminate use of multiple inheritance is a maintenance nightmare" :(
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19:44:20  <Eddi|zuHause> why not give the trailer his own class, and make that a member of the vehicle class?
19:44:47  <Eddi|zuHause> if vehicle has no trailer, member is None
19:45:07  <Eddi|zuHause> if member is not None, generate articulated callback
19:45:22  <andythenorth> hmm
19:45:30  <andythenorth> you have given me an idea
19:45:53  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise handle trailing vehicles like normal vehicles, except give them no availability timeframe
19:45:54  <andythenorth> there's no case for RVs, even articulated RVs, that haul multiple cargo types?
19:46:06  <Eddi|zuHause> no.
19:46:15  <Eddi|zuHause> (didn't we discuss that already?)
19:46:16  <andythenorth> ok, I just put the common stuff on the consist
19:46:39  <andythenorth> my problem was two classes, one for truck, one for trailer, both defining cargo refits etc
19:46:51  <andythenorth> you just solved it, obliquely
19:47:44  <Eddi|zuHause> in CETS, every trailer has its own entry in the tracking table, only the availability is set to "special".
19:48:04  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise it behaves like a normal vehicle
19:48:23  <Eddi|zuHause> there is some code to add the vehicle's mass to the front vehicle, because the specs are stupid
19:48:55  <Eddi|zuHause> and the front vehicle has a table entry which vehicle(s) get attached to it
19:49:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it's really flexible, and takes only very little code
19:53:20  <andythenorth> iirc I've magicked most articulated stuff away already in a similar fashion
19:53:28  <andythenorth> seems to work so far anyway
19:55:53  <andythenorth> yeah appears to just work
19:56:03  <andythenorth> although I just ran into the road vehicle weight limit :P
19:56:08  <andythenorth> newgrf spec
20:01:40  <andythenorth> weight is a byte
20:01:55  <andythenorth> which is slightly limiting for articulated consists, but not enough to whine about
20:05:35  <Eddi|zuHause> which vehicle is more than 256t?
20:06:50  * andythenorth tests
20:06:54  <andythenorth> maybe it's an nml issue
20:07:12  <planetmaker> byte is a NewGRF restriction for vehicle weight
20:07:41  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: limit is 63t
20:08:09  <Eddi|zuHause> ah. weird factors involved
20:08:17  <andythenorth> 1/4 tons
20:08:23  <andythenorth> iirc
20:09:05  <andythenorth> and it is a bit low - HEQS runs up against it, the larger trucks are too light for their power + capacity
20:09:10  <andythenorth> but it's not enough to care
20:09:11  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe $someone should implement weight (and cost) for articulated parts :p
20:09:26  <andythenorth> Terkhen tried I think
20:09:32  <andythenorth> and found some problem
20:09:59  <Eddi|zuHause> see how many newgrfs ignored the specs and put something other than 0 for those values :p
20:10:27  <planetmaker> hehe :)
20:11:04  * andythenorth may be guilty
20:11:44  <planetmaker> that's convenient. So should we ever need one, we now even have a scape goat
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20:37:12  <Terkhen> andythenorth: IIRC one of the biggest reasons for not implementing it was consistency with how the specs defined these values
20:37:31  <Terkhen> I don't remember any purely technical reasons for not giving articulated parts their own values
20:38:23  <Terkhen> in fact, I think that the improved acceleration for RV patch implemented those at some point
20:39:20  <Phreeze> i wish there was a function that says: replace engine and remove 1 carriage
20:39:42  <Phreeze> want to replace old loco by a turbine train
20:40:07  <planetmaker> just use that function?
20:40:18  <planetmaker> it exists for years
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20:42:32  <planetmaker> Phreeze, in the autoreplace window just check the box 'wagon removal' (lower right corner)
20:42:52  <Phreeze> what the...
20:42:56  * Phreeze checks
20:43:24  <planetmaker> rather button than check box. But well :)
20:43:46  <Phreeze> nice....first time i saw that...
20:44:00  <Phreeze> oops..^^ i feel stupid now
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20:47:00  <planetmaker> welcome to the many hidden features :)
20:50:01  <__ln___> andythenorth:
20:52:05  <Eddi|zuHause> yay, my second 2048
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20:54:13  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's not even a "hidden" feature :p
20:54:45  <Eddi|zuHause> hidden in plain sight maybe :)
21:02:23  <Eddi|zuHause> 27320 points
21:10:41  <andythenorth> the capacity of the default RVs is too low
21:11:54  <Phreeze> hm should replace those 2-10-4 Texas
21:12:00  <Phreeze> but just cant :(
21:12:05  <Phreeze> i miss those 5k PS
21:14:39  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they're already higher than "realistic". a common truck loads around 5t
21:15:40  <andythenorth> I know
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21:15:51  <andythenorth> I spent too long worrying about realistic capacity for trucks :)
21:17:05  <andythenorth> 30t-40t is the right size for trucks (and train wagons) by 1980 or so
21:17:18  <andythenorth> lower before 1950, just to make it different
21:17:20  <Eddi|zuHause> it's one of those cases where gameplay should go before "realism"
21:17:26  <andythenorth> +lots
21:17:52  <andythenorth> I kind of think Zeph has it right in egrvts with 55t trucks
21:17:53  <Eddi|zuHause> 30t sounds fine, let it be a bit lower than a wagon
21:17:58  <andythenorth> even though the spread is a bit odd
21:18:36  <Eddi|zuHause> put the more exaggerated ones in HEQS :)
21:20:54  <andythenorth> an approximate relation to RL seems to be: RL gross combination weight = in game capacity
21:27:54  <Phreeze> inflation hits so hard
21:27:58  <Phreeze> disabled it 5 years ago
21:28:04  <Phreeze> just bought 2 concordes, no more money :D
21:28:20  <Phreeze> i'm in year 2003, started in something like 1940 or so
21:29:53  <__ln___> i'm at 4096
21:30:10  <__ln___> (unrelated to what Phreeze said)
21:31:26  <Phreeze> still playing that game ? i got bored after 2 tries
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21:39:00  <Afdal> Hey anyone know if it's possible to bypass a
21:39:11  <Afdal> "version mismatch" thing when joining servers
21:39:20  <Afdal> game version mismatch, I mean
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21:42:08  <Eddi|zuHause> download the right version
21:42:38  <Eddi|zuHause> it's impossible to play on servers with different versions
21:42:54  <Afdal> aww bummer
21:43:06  <andythenorth> urgh, I wish I knew how to fix this python error handling :(
21:43:16  <andythenorth> the error handling machinery errors :P
21:43:16  <Afdal> The version mismatch is due to using a patch
21:43:31  <Afdal> some people in this tt-forums thread are saying it's still possible to join servers with it though
21:43:36  <Afdal> servers that aren't using it themselves
21:43:57  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: override the error handler? (*shudder*)
21:44:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: in 99% of all cases, that is not true
21:44:44  <Afdal> Well..
21:44:46  <Afdal>
21:44:52  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: maybe :(
21:44:54  <Afdal> They're saying it's possible in this thread D:>
21:45:02  <Afdal> you risk desynching though
21:45:09  <andythenorth> no idea how though, I guess I could learn how pdb works, then crash my program
21:45:21  <andythenorth> although pdb with multiprocessing pool might be nuts
21:45:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: in any case, it's not officially supported and we do not give advice on how to do it
21:46:05  <Afdal> o-okay -_-
21:46:32  <Eddi|zuHause> plus, for that particular patch, some servers consider it cheating
21:47:10  <Afdal> well
21:47:14  <Afdal> this is my own server
21:47:34  <Afdal> I'm just wondering if I can play on it together with a group of friends without forcing them to download and install the same patch
21:48:09  <andythenorth> oops
21:48:25  <andythenorth> PicklingError: Can't pickle <class 'exceptions.TypeError'>: it's not the same object as exceptions.TypeError
21:48:37  <andythenorth> caused by me not calling str(int) in something
21:48:51  <andythenorth> but you'd have to be good at reading your own code to figure that out :P
21:49:55  <andythenorth> because whatever and wherever the error is, you get the PicklingError
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21:55:37  <Supercheese> sounds like you're in... a pickle
21:57:09  <andythenorth> fricking pickles
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22:10:57  <Eddi|zuHause> why do i never get such stuff?
22:17:09  <andythenorth> what?  Errors like the ones I get?
22:19:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
22:22:07  <andythenorth> because you are better at this than me :P
22:22:10  <andythenorth> simples
22:39:19  <Phreeze> k..i need a button, that doesn't exist ;)
22:39:31  <Eddi|zuHause> this time for real? :p
22:39:34  <Phreeze> "remove caboose from engines that do not need a caboose"
22:39:38  <Phreeze> ;)
22:40:06  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, there's no way to determine that, though :)
22:40:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i never got around to trying "template based train replacement" patch
22:41:40  <Phreeze> i think is must replace the whole train anyway...old wagons are too slow
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22:45:12  <andythenorth> replace the caboose with a wagon
22:45:20  <andythenorth> use groups to only do it where you want it
22:46:27  <Phreeze> DAMN UFOS
22:46:28  <Phreeze> wtf
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23:13:41  <frosch123> night
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23:14:43  <theholyduck>
23:15:40  *** Phreeze is now known as PhreeZZzzzZzzz
23:15:42  <PhreeZZzzzZzzz> <-
23:16:21  <planetmaker> oh please, no away nicks :S
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23:35:31  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:53:56  <qwebirc27053> hey.. I have been having a lot of fun with openttd today :)
23:54:26  <qwebirc27053> finally gave myself time enough to learn the game and the mechanics
23:54:59  <qwebirc27053> really appreciated how polished it is -- tons of fun to be had here
23:57:26  <qwebirc27053> the tutorial and the other wiki pages were super helpful too
23:58:36  <Eddi|zuHause> thanks, but please type "/nick YourName"

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