Log for #openttd on 30th March 2014:
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01:56:03  <Eddi|zuHause> THERE IS AN HOUR MISSING!!!
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02:19:07  <Flygon> Is it evil when you're kind of wanting good buses to be available in a game because a railway would be a pita? D:
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03:34:42  <Eddi|zuHause> do not repeat that sentence when andy is around :p
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05:20:48  <supermop> hello
05:43:34  <Supercheese> Gouda day
05:46:56  <supermop> no tram riding today
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05:47:22  <supermop> but i will go to a pub named tramway hotel tonight
05:48:54  <supermop> are you in seattle Supercheese?
05:49:01  <Supercheese> Nope
05:49:03  <Supercheese> Idaho
05:49:38  <Supercheese> it's quite a few hours' drive to seattle
05:52:18  <supermop> the skinny part?
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05:55:02  <Supercheese> Indeed
05:55:30  <supermop> i was not actually aware that the skinny part was inhabited
06:11:07  <andythenorth> o/
06:13:32  <supermop> hi andy
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07:58:36  <supermop> pub soon
08:01:15  <planetmaker> moin
08:06:04  <supermop> hi planetmaker im off to the tramway hotel pub
08:06:06  <supermop> later all
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10:04:09  <Wolf01> hello o/
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10:05:28  <planetmaker> hi hi :)
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10:19:21  <supermop> hi
10:19:45  <planetmaker> welcome back :) that was a quick pub excursion ;)
10:19:58  <V453000> tramway stuff
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10:25:09  <supermop> pub, then went to the grocery store, then came home and made palomas with a home infused jalapeno tequilla!
10:25:24  <planetmaker> sounds delicious
10:25:36  <planetmaker> but short for pub still. Even shorter ;)
10:25:36  <supermop> the tramway hotel pub has a beer called tramway conductor pale ale
10:26:34  <supermop> well it is a sunday night, and my fiancee has wireframing work to get done on her app
10:26:47  <supermop> and i have... nothing much to do
10:27:03  <supermop> other than make drinks
10:28:09  <planetmaker> :)
10:29:26  <peter1138> Temporarily using only one monitor. It feels so constrictive.
10:29:30  <supermop> it's really hard to find metalworkers here
10:29:37  <supermop> i miss my dual monitors
10:29:47  <supermop> last time I had them was circa 2009
10:32:08  <supermop> i think i infused the tequilla too long
10:32:15  <supermop> its very hot
10:34:19  <planetmaker> hehe
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10:50:31  <supermop> so what all is going on?
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10:51:37  <andythenorth> voyager 1 has drawn a train
10:52:06  <andythenorth> andythenorth is making breakfast
10:52:19  <planetmaker> bon appetit
10:52:50  <peter1138> Midday breakfast!
10:53:32  <peter1138> andythenorth, road types!
10:53:52  <peter1138> So is there anything cool to go with 10cc?
10:54:44  <peter1138> I miss wagon speed limits in it though :(
10:55:35  <peter1138> sse2 vs ssse3?
10:55:43  <peter1138> I dunno, all this optimisation.
10:56:06  <peter1138> Yet there's still our own unique version of tearing, which is... vertical.
10:56:34  <supermop> the roadtype i most want to see is fancy terrazzo pavement pedestrian mall with tram tracks,
10:56:48  <supermop> because apparently that exists downtown in this city
10:57:01  <supermop> tearing?
10:57:04  <supermop> or teiring?
10:57:08  <peter1138> tearing.
10:57:10  <supermop> tiering?
10:57:33  <dxtr> tearing
10:57:46  <dxtr> peter1138: Vertical tearing?
10:57:56  <dxtr> How have you managed to achieve this?
10:58:15  <peter1138> It's how ottd draws blocks.
10:58:53  <dxtr> Weird
10:59:09  <peter1138> When scrolling the map the parts of the screen update at slightly different times, so it gets a bit... weird.
11:00:32  <dxtr> Maybe I should learn to code gfx :P
11:00:50  <dxtr> I'm one of those pesky people who prefer to do the back-end
11:01:29  <dxtr> Don't ask me why I added a hyphen there
11:02:47  <peter1138> "*snigger*"
11:04:21  <peter1138> Heh, weird, I have two towns close to each other: Trunthill and Truntfield.
11:05:29  <V453000> wait wait wait dont you want to say you are playing the actual game?
11:07:18  <peter1138> Heh, weird, I'm playing the game.
11:07:51  <dxtr> *the* game
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11:08:50  <V453000> *weird*
11:11:16  <andythenorth> peter1138: road types?
11:11:21  <andythenorth> are we saying words again? o_O
11:11:31  <andythenorth> dog biscuits!
11:12:53  <V453000> GOOD caboose
11:17:15  <andythenorth> it’s not time for road types yet
11:17:23  <andythenorth> wait until I’ve completely finished an RV set
11:17:27  <andythenorth> then change the spec :P
11:17:36  <andythenorth> that’s the standard way to do it
11:24:30  <LordAro> this guy is breaking GPL, isn't he?
11:26:15  <planetmaker> Probably
11:28:02  <LordAro> the repo, for those interested
11:29:58  <planetmaker> feel free to step on his toes :)
11:31:46  * planetmaker is out, grabbing arrows and bow and enjoying the 20Ĉ Sunday afternoon, though
11:32:04  <peter1138> dxtr, no, not _that_ game.
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11:40:37  <supermop> bedtime in melbourne
11:40:40  <supermop> later
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11:48:25  <peter1138> Skin sofa, skin sofa, urgh urgh urgh urgh urggghh
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13:05:06  <maddy_> oh dear, I am wondering if I can efficiently merge the 4 lines which come from 2 stations into my 2 mainline tracks...or do I have to add a 3rd track to the mainline
13:06:47  <maddy_> the trains come from 2 lines initially to the stations, so in theory they should only need 2 outgoing lines too
13:07:28  <maddy_> my current 4-to-2 merger is somewhat a bottleneck
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13:15:59  <V453000> easy answer
13:16:05  <V453000> expand the parts which are bottleneck
13:16:14  <V453000> if 2 lines arent enough, there you have your answer - you need 3
13:16:40  <V453000> if 2 lines are enough for entrance, 2 should be enough for exit in general, then the merger is probably not doing a good job
13:20:18  <maddy_> is it good/bad idea to first do a 4-to-3 merger, and then later another 3-to-2?
13:20:54  <maddy_> I am looking at openttdcoop wiki for some examples
13:24:25  <V453000> if you can do 3->2 then there is probably no reason to have 3 lines before it - if 2 are only needed
13:24:30  <V453000> as I said
13:24:35  <V453000> expand what breaks/is bottleneck
13:26:32  <maddy_>
13:28:07  <V453000> that should do fine
13:28:24  <V453000> well done
13:28:41  <V453000> if you want to learn quicker, just join some of the servers :) people there are helpful
13:29:51  <maddy_> you mean openttdcoop?
13:30:41  <V453000> yes
13:31:33  <maddy_> thanks, I might try it one day
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16:19:53  <Phreeze> anybody know where to by really thin Torx Bits in europe ?
16:19:57  <Phreeze> like 0.5mm or 1mm ?
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17:22:43  <andythenorth> frosch123: can you think of any quick hacks I could make to SV for variety?
17:22:58  <andythenorth> I need to play a game to test newgrfs, bored of existing GS
17:23:02  <andythenorth> ;)
17:24:10  <frosch123> nope :p
17:25:48  <andythenorth> :P
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18:45:24  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26437 trunk/src/lang/belarusian.txt (2014-03-30 18:45:12 UTC)
18:45:25  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:26  <DorpsGek> belarusian - 1 changes by Wowanxm
18:45:52  <planetmaker> uh... nightly now one hour later, eh?
18:46:09  <planetmaker> §$)&!§)? daylight saving time
18:46:53  <__ln___> solar time nightlies \o/
18:49:10  <planetmaker> MJD? :P
18:49:27  <Wolf01> stupid dst, just move the clock of half an hour and keep that forever
18:50:15  <planetmaker> one or the other would do. Actually normal time would do well. As then the sun is above horizon the same time before and after noon
18:53:16  <Phreeze> all the "pros" for DST don't work anyway, like light on roads
18:53:43  <planetmaker> the change from or to dst has a proven detrimental economic effect even
18:53:50  <planetmaker> due to reduced productivity
18:54:25  <maddy_> I am going to publish my small patch for station 'efficiency rating'
18:54:44  <Phreeze> i slept 5 hours...problem was: party, then dst, then get up early to move somebodys stuff...
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18:57:51  <Wolf01> eh
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19:30:37  <planetmaker> maddy_, I believe your patch fails badly for a station which provides more than a single cargo
19:31:09  <planetmaker> thus for every farm. And most stations in towns which also supply mail
19:32:16  <planetmaker> and don't you think that the existing cargo rating at a station is a much better - and already existing - proxy to whether that cargo needs more attention at that station?
19:33:07  <maddy_> planetmaker: yes, it has some shortcomings, which is why I said it's quick-and-dirty :)
19:33:58  <maddy_> cargo rating has some problems, for my purpose
19:34:26  <planetmaker> which are...?
19:34:33  <rubidium> agreed planetmaker, we should opt for a time system where noon is exactly between sunrise and sunset. That'll be fun ;)
19:35:15  <planetmaker> rubidium, on average that's the case at the reference meridian of the time zone ;)
19:35:24  <maddy_> for one, I need to see all the values for all stations at one glance, without opening individual station dialogs
19:36:10  * rubidium will be happy when local time and UTC are the same ;)
19:36:18  <planetmaker> maddy_, that's a bad argument for inventing yet another measure. It's rather an argument for using it ;)
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19:36:25  <maddy_> secondly, the scale is small and is not precise enough, a cargo rating of 72 might be fully served, but a 68 might need additional train
19:37:03  <maddy_> thirdly, as far as I know, cargo rating only shows if you do not have enough trains, but does not penalize for having too many
19:37:23  <planetmaker> it does not do that, yes
19:40:30  <maddy_> but I realize this is a very crude way of doing it, and only works for specific game type / play style, which is why I was a bit hesitant about publishing it at all
19:41:22  <planetmaker> hardly ever wrong with publishing it. Though not everything can go into trunk :)
19:42:18  <planetmaker> Trunk concepts need to work for a few more cases, I'm afraid
19:43:15  <planetmaker> not to deter you. If it helps you - that's totally fine.
19:43:23  <planetmaker> Others also might find it helpful
19:43:49  <planetmaker> And it at least helps to serve as nice demonstration on how one can get started
19:44:55  <maddy_> that's the purpose, if anything, to see if anyone else needs it (or something similar), it's not intended for trunk really :)
19:45:15  <planetmaker> <-- I mean... that patch surely is smaller ;)
19:46:19  <planetmaker> but I don't know. I toyed with other patches before
19:47:48  <maddy_> lost me there
19:49:17  <planetmaker> all I wanted to say: my first patch in trunk was much smaller ;)
19:49:30  <planetmaker> and solved much less :)
19:49:47  <frosch123> what did you pay smatz for it? :p
19:50:05  <planetmaker> possibly a cookie. Or the promise to not bother him for another day or so :P
19:50:23  <frosch123> ah, the usual treat :p
19:50:27  <planetmaker> yeah  ;)
19:50:38  <frosch123> "if you don't solve my problem, i'll ask you again tomorrow" :)
19:50:59  <planetmaker> :) yeah. We were indeed playing then on the PublicServer with some boats as far as I recall
19:51:06  <planetmaker> It was a very serious problem ;)
19:51:31  <glx> pathfinding taking too much ressources ?
19:51:39  <planetmaker> no, building aqueducts :P
19:51:45  <planetmaker> taking too much time :)
19:52:23  <glx> huhu
19:52:31  <maddy_> I also think most players do not care to optimize their train counts to the level I do, so I am not sure this would be 'trunkable' even if cleaned up, fixed, etc
19:52:48  <__ln___>
19:52:52  <planetmaker> important is that yu have fun, maddy_ :)
19:53:06  <frosch123> maddy_: that's no problem. we always make fun of people who have more tracks than trains
19:53:50  <maddy_> no but you introduced an interesting thought for me, should I make quick-and-dirty patches that I use myself, or should I try to make more polished stuff which could be included in trunk one day
19:54:09  <frosch123> always do the one which is most fun for you
19:54:24  <glx> quick-and-dirty even for personal use only is never a good idea
19:54:50  <frosch123> yeah, but i guess you have to learn that yourself :p
19:54:53  <planetmaker> well. It can serve the purpose to teach yourself something, glx :)
19:58:13  <maddy_> and the cargo rating itself, that might use some work too :) I am doing the best I can but I got 70 :) damn station guys want fresh new trains and a statue in their town to be happy
19:58:37  <planetmaker> well, getting 100 is about a thing near-impossible, yes
19:58:58  <frosch123> you just need 200ikmh trains
19:59:01  <planetmaker> it's a bit weired. The statue thing... well...
19:59:28  <planetmaker> yeah. have a new maglev train come and pickup things every 3 days
19:59:33  <planetmaker> and a statue
20:01:54  <planetmaker> I remember one game on a competitive server where some  guy started to annoy me
20:02:20  <planetmaker> But I knew how to convince him to not compete for the industries I served :)
20:02:31  <planetmaker> two stations, both better rating then than him ;)
20:02:55  <maddy_> by using the statue trick?
20:03:02  <planetmaker> on station a road station, transfering the stuff to the 1-tile distant train station ;)
20:03:11  <planetmaker> that, too. But he had that, too
20:03:34  <planetmaker> and I autoreplaced the trains every two years or so
20:03:50  <planetmaker> by equivalently appropriate engines. So they were new
20:05:34  <maddy_> right :)
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20:08:31  <planetmaker> the thing to really know when competing is that only the two highest-ranked stations get any cargo at all
20:08:35  <planetmaker> all others go empty
20:08:55  <planetmaker> that can shut-down services really fast and soundly :)
20:11:40  <maddy_> yeah, detailed knowledge of the game mechanics sure is handy in some situations
20:14:58  <frosch123> night
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20:17:16  <maddy_> yeah night for me too, bye
20:18:15  <NGC3982>
20:21:22  <planetmaker> good night then :)
20:23:01  <Eddi|zuHause> you have too fiew jerrys
20:23:09  <Eddi|zuHause> -i
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20:30:14  <andythenorth> hurr
20:30:17  <andythenorth> is it bedtime?
20:32:48  <planetmaker> lol, Eddi|zuHause :)
20:33:06  <planetmaker> not sure it's still popular with today's youths
20:33:55  <andythenorth> it is
20:34:03  <andythenorth> massively
20:34:07  <andythenorth> due to the violence
20:39:16  <andythenorth> wonder if these trucks are under-powered
20:39:31  * andythenorth needs to play a test game :P
20:39:45  <andythenorth> also good night
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21:01:36  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:08:05  <supermop> hi
21:10:13  <planetmaker> o/
21:10:43  <Taede> o/
21:11:46  <FLHerne> ping
21:14:57  <supermop> coffee time in melbourne
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21:20:51  <FLHerne> tea-and-then-bed time here
21:21:52  <supermop> those sound like conflicting activities
21:24:08  <planetmaker> without the 'then' they are
21:24:39  <FLHerne> Meh. Given my level of caffeine addiction, one mug won't make the slightest difference :-/
21:25:45  * FLHerne has contemplated switching to coffe instead
21:26:09  <supermop> new roast today
21:26:58  <supermop> finished a bag of rwandan from one roaster yesterday and have opened a new el salvadoran today
21:27:21  <supermop> i spend a lot of money on coffee, but really good tea is even more $$$$
21:27:52  <supermop> so i don't have much accoutrement for it here
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21:30:20  <planetmaker> tea usually is needed in smaller quantities
21:30:30  <planetmaker> 500g of tea will get you much further than 500g of coffee
21:32:46  <planetmaker> so from my experience, a good cup of first-grade tea can be made much cheaper still than an equivalently good cup of coffee
21:33:00  <FLHerne> planetmaker: Depends if you're measuring by dry mass or in hot-drink form
21:33:16  <planetmaker> I'm mostly interested in the latter
21:33:25  <planetmaker> for 500g you likely can spend more on tea
21:33:34  <planetmaker> s/for 500g/per unit mass/
21:33:43  <planetmaker> not sure though :)
21:35:04  <planetmaker> at home we used to have something like
21:35:11  <planetmaker> and I still do :)
21:37:22  <FLHerne> I don't usually go for anything fancier than I can buy in the local small food-shop, but I'll concede the superiority of the expensive stuff
21:38:04  * NGC3982 spends much money on coffee, but somehow never finds his favourites among the more expencive sorts.
21:38:19  <planetmaker> for the everyday tea I have something cheaper, too :)
21:38:32  <planetmaker> from the common grocery
21:38:41  <supermop> i like yorkshire tea for everyday but it is too $$$ in australia
21:39:05  <supermop> also i don't have a teapot here
21:40:52  <Supercheese> I just buy French Roasts from whatever brand is cheap
21:41:31  <Supercheese> coffee, that is
21:42:38  * NGC3982 loves the Moka brewer.
21:43:34  <planetmaker> NGC3982, maybe your problem is to use a 'brewer' instead of really hand-making the coffee for good quality :)
21:46:21  <supermop> moka is a great design icon, but yes a simple pour-over drip cone gives you better coffee
21:51:15  <NGC3982> "Better coffee"?
21:51:21  <supermop> yep
21:51:37  <supermop> yummier
21:51:43  <NGC3982> That is incorrect, since "better coffee" does not exist.
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21:52:13  <NGC3982> Although, a drip cone is nice.
21:52:26  <NGC3982> I also enjoy the siphon, but that get's a + for flare.
21:54:17  <supermop> im thinking of buying a siphon here
21:54:30  <supermop> but i am not sure if that is going to get approval
21:56:32  <NGC3982> Approval? :)
21:58:15  <supermop> its a big visually load thing to be taking up space in the kitchen
21:58:36  <supermop> i might be the designer in the house, but I am certainly not the client
21:59:38  <NGC3982> :D.
21:59:45  <supermop> hmm i can hear the metro trains from here
21:59:59  <supermop> quiet morning i guess
22:00:40  <NGC3982> Metro? Morning? The US?
22:00:46  <NGC3982> It's exactly midnight around here.
22:00:58  <supermop> i moved to melbourne a couple months ago
22:01:46  <supermop> and in nyc it was certainly a subway, not a metro
22:02:13  <NGC3982> Ah, neat.
22:02:13  <supermop> unless you lived by an elevated line you felt it from your kitchen but did not hear it
22:02:25  <NGC3982> :-)
22:04:04  <supermop> what you really need is a 2-group la Marzocco machine in your kitchen
22:09:18  <supermop> to be serious though, a grinder helps more than any fancy brewing equipment
22:10:00  <supermop> just being able to grind the beans right before you use them is the single best improvement you can make to home brewed coffee
22:10:05  <Supercheese> Agreed
22:10:19  <Supercheese> Grind, cone filter, pour hot water over
22:10:32  <Supercheese> cheap, easy, and excellent results
22:11:02  <supermop> Supercheese: it can get expensive if you keep trying to get a better and better kettle
22:11:20  <planetmaker> g'night
22:11:45  <supermop> narrower spout, better handle geometry, more temperature precision
22:11:52  <supermop> later planetmaker
22:13:28  <Supercheese> Heh, well, my parents still use the kettle they bought back in Scotland, 24 years ago
22:13:41  <Supercheese> with the weird UK->US power adaptor
22:13:50  <Supercheese> it's worked very well for them
22:14:00  <supermop> i recently got the bonavita variable temperature gooseneck one here
22:14:32  <supermop> but in the us i used a non-electric kettle with a thermometer stuck in
22:15:10  <supermop> for the price of the bonavita i could have got a cheap siphon
22:15:38  <supermop> but at least the other people in the house can use this for tea or french press too
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