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00:14:44 <Supercheese> I should test that all my gender and case tags are working properly... 00:15:12 <Supercheese> and I may have moved {STRING}s around and forgotten to swap them back... 00:23:45 <planetmaker> you shall quickly see that :) 00:26:48 <planetmaker> however good night from my side for now. Or... ave! bonam noctem aut diem habeatis 00:28:32 <Supercheese> Certe habebo, gratias 00:42:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B48E.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:52:28 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:55:40 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f744f9b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 01:12:05 *** LeShadow [~seba@91.176.215.12] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 01:12:44 *** bdavenport [~davenport@chronos.rpi.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd 01:14:08 *** bdavenport [~davenport@chronos.rpi.mindlesstux.com] has quit [] 01:14:29 *** bdavenport [~davenport@chronos.rpi.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd 01:34:33 *** montalvo [~montalvo@ip68-108-148-173.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâŠ] 01:45:20 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:18 *** tycoondemon2 [~ashnohoe@D97BA885.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 02:07:29 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97BA885.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:51:20 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:53:41 *** montalvo [~montalvo@ip68-108-148-173.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #openttd 03:00:32 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@116.240.169.25] has joined #openttd 03:26:19 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:33:00 <Supercheese> This Latin news article has a typo; how dare they, Latin authors are supposed to be better than everybody else! :P 03:59:51 <Supercheese> Polish has some weeeeeird plurals 04:00:07 <Supercheese> "For example in Polish language the second form applies for numbers that end with 2, 3 or 4, .but excluding -teen numbers. " 04:45:15 <Flygon> Man, dumb idea #3821903 04:45:40 <Flygon> OpenTTD has support for Telegraph, Telephone, Fibre, and various wireless communication towers and lines 04:45:58 <Flygon> Thus allowing profit to be made from the electronic transport of information :B 04:54:10 <Supercheese> I wrote a grf for power lines once 04:54:23 <Supercheese> it could just as easily be for telephone lines 04:54:39 <Supercheese> "100 packets of data waiting" 04:55:02 <Supercheese> would be pretty easy to code 04:55:15 <Supercheese> what sort of "vehicles" would carry the packets of data? 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4B7E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:14 <Supercheese> I went with "sparks" for carrying electricity 04:56:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4BDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 04:56:23 <Supercheese> I suppose they could carry data just as well 04:57:43 <Supercheese> make it a town growth requirement 04:57:52 <Supercheese> "Must have communication" 04:57:59 <Supercheese> "Town demands faster Internet" 04:58:15 <Supercheese> you may be on to something... 04:58:58 <Supercheese> So then you build a lorry, fill it with microSD cards: http://what-if.xkcd.com/31/ 04:59:37 <Supercheese> "Capacity: 1.6 x 10^15 Bytes of data" 04:59:59 <Supercheese> :D 05:01:58 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:39 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 05:08:10 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-168-244-115.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:22:16 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.133.149.138] has quit [Quit: www.AdiIRC.com - not made by microsoft.] 05:23:09 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:26:45 <Flygon> Supercheese: Sorry for the delay 05:26:50 <Flygon> Well, I was thinking more 05:27:05 <Flygon> You plop down telephone exchange or whatever, and the game starts automatically doing the peering for you 05:27:15 <Flygon> Instead of you building 'vehicles' to transport whatever 05:27:24 <Supercheese> Ah, that would require a source code patch 05:27:33 <Supercheese> I was thinking of possibilities through newgrf only 05:27:35 <Flygon> Because, honestly, it's a bit silly to have electricity as a cargo to be transported :P 05:27:41 <Flygon> As proven by the fourth climate :B 05:27:50 <Flygon> Yes, it would require a patch 05:28:13 <Supercheese> Eh, I think it'd be cute to have it as a cargo 05:28:20 <Supercheese> but then you run into the silly limits on houses 05:28:22 <Flygon> But assuming the whole basic "x by pipe/wire" thing is implemented, and can be stuffed over and under existing whatevers 05:28:25 <Flygon> It'd be quite nice 05:28:34 <Flygon> eg. installing telephone lines on the 'same' tile as roads 05:28:53 <Flygon> But, it would be extensive... and that's the barrier 05:29:05 <Supercheese> like houses can only accept a max of 3 cargoes 05:29:49 <Supercheese> oh, but can they produce any number of cargoes? 05:30:00 <Supercheese> I've not investigated until now... 05:35:09 <Supercheese> very nice, looks like houses can produce any number of cargoes 05:35:19 <Supercheese> so each house could produce communication data 05:36:12 <Supercheese> then for the 19th century you build a telegraph station, build the lines, and send "vehicles" across to carry the data 05:36:30 <Supercheese> eventually it upgrades to telephone lines 05:36:52 <Supercheese> and then radio broadcasts, hmm 05:37:06 <Supercheese> although those aren't sent by houses, just received 05:37:32 <Supercheese> an interesting idea, to be certain 05:38:54 <Pinkbeast> Vehicles> this would only make sense with proper support for continuous transport. 05:38:54 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:15 <Pinkbeast> And of course there's already one communication data cargo in the game. :-) 05:46:19 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has joined #openttd 06:12:33 *** talebowl [~delltvgat@ip-81-11-210-239.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 06:16:31 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:16:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 06:21:03 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:22:19 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-75-226.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:31:34 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has joined #openttd 06:39:34 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 06:39:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6CC9C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 06:48:21 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:48:30 <andythenorth> @seen pikka 06:48:30 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 21 hours, 49 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <Pikka> simples 07:00:43 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 07:00:46 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:06:50 <andythenorth> o/ Alberth 07:07:08 <Alberth> moin! 07:07:58 <Alberth> all horses running smoothly? 07:13:50 <andythenorth> so far 07:28:09 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 07:49:07 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:02:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 08:09:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B318.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:21:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:42:59 *** DanMacK [~0a0a6574@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 08:44:56 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:45:38 <Wolf01> hi hi 08:46:43 <Alberth> o/ 08:46:43 *** strohalm [~smoofi@80.84.209.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:46:54 *** strohalm [~smoofi@80.84.209.151] has joined #openttd 08:49:05 <DanMacK> Hey all 08:49:12 <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth 08:49:12 <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 35 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <andythenorth> so far 08:51:35 <Alberth> hey, as usual, he's coming and going all day :) 08:51:57 <planetmaker> moin DanMacK :) 08:52:30 <DanMacK> hey PM 08:53:59 <planetmaker> nice work on iron horse :) 08:56:29 <DanMacK> thanks 08:59:59 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-4744.vo.lu] has joined #openttd 09:00:34 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-4744.vo.lu] has quit [] 09:04:35 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 09:07:43 *** DanMacK [~0a0a6574@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:31:18 *** Hazzard_ [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 09:38:09 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:47:54 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 09:50:15 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:56 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 10:01:11 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:24:15 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has joined #openttd 10:24:35 *** Devroush [~dennis@dd5765bac.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:36:59 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:38:38 *** mg_ [~mg@cpc3-cdif14-2-0-cust195.5-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Disconnected] 10:54:07 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f743b3e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:57:51 *** mg_ [~mg@cpc3-cdif14-2-0-cust195.5-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 10:58:06 <frosch123> Supercheese: https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/StringCodes#Using_plural_forms <- there are way more funny plural forms; btw. czech has the same 7 cases as latin 11:11:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 11:16:22 <andythenorth> can GS track cargo between source-destination pairs? 11:16:31 <andythenorth> wondering about a simple âconnectionsâ challenge GS 11:17:32 <Alberth> hmm, probably not 11:17:50 <Alberth> I wonder how subsidies do it 11:17:54 <andythenorth> subsidy framework does it 11:22:10 <andythenorth> Refittable to: [nothing] 11:22:18 <andythenorth> but âOffers auto-refitâ 11:22:22 <andythenorth> something wrong there :P 11:22:38 <andythenorth> I guess I have to have another switch :( 11:22:46 <andythenorth> or not care 11:27:24 * andythenorth wonders what max sensible price for an RV is 11:27:30 <andythenorth> probably £50k 11:31:35 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:07 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 11:40:35 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:41:51 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r26456 trunk/bin/baseset/no_sound.obs (2014-04-12 11:41:45 UTC) 11:41:52 <DorpsGek> -Update: Baseset translations. 11:43:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r26457 /trunk/src (industry_cmd.cpp industry_map.h) (2014-04-12 11:43:04 UTC) 11:43:10 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Remove unused parameter from SetIndustryCompleted 11:48:14 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 11:56:52 *** talebowl_ [~delltvgat@ip-83-134-116-91.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 12:03:24 *** talebowl [~delltvgat@ip-81-11-210-239.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:03:25 *** ZirconiumX [~matthew@cpc66203-derb15-2-0-cust161.8-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:14:16 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:18:24 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 12:19:56 *** ZirconiumX [~matthew@cpc66203-derb15-2-0-cust161.8-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:02 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@116.240.169.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:41:12 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@116.240.169.25] has joined #openttd 12:44:58 *** Aristide [~quassel@78.250.82.51] has joined #openttd 12:53:32 *** talebowl_ is now known as talebowl 13:06:22 <peter1138> Heh... Pronborough. 13:08:12 <talebowl> I'm doing some more work on the location button (have been doing some other stuff for the past couple of days, but code should now be more or less done, apart from rechecking everything) and I'm currently working on the actual sprite. I've added the image into media/extra_grf/openttdgui.png and I've also updated media/extra_grf/openttdgui.nfo and make has made the appropriate changes to the files indicated in the changesets some of y 13:08:12 <talebowl> ou pointed me to. However, the sprite doesn't show up in the game (the button seems to be slightly bigger, and there is a greyish line of about 1 or 2 pixels). When I run grf2html on the bin/baseset/openttd.grf (with the win palette) most of the actual images don't show up (however, as that was also the case before I made my changes, I assume that this is normal ) but my added sprite (#175) isn't even in the appropriate table (Action 13:08:12 <talebowl> 5 Type 15). I would think that this means that there is a problem with my .nfo edits (I added the sprite line and updated the count). Do I also need to run grfcodec on the nfo's or is just running make enough? 13:10:44 <frosch123> did you edit the first line of the info, where the comment says something about the number of sprites? 13:11:19 <talebowl> I did. As the new sprite would be #175, I updated it to 176 (as it was previously also last+1) 13:12:15 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Debugging#Sprite_alignment_tool <- can you access your sprite ingame via that hing? 13:12:54 <andythenorth> is it bad that I am including my own inflation? 13:13:22 <talebowl> I'll try that, thanks 13:18:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B318.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:40 <talebowl> frosch123: Nope, that doesn't seem to work. #174 is the cargodist smallmap icon, and when I pick that one and click next, I get one of the signals 13:19:21 <frosch123> did you increment the constant for number of gui sprites in sprites.h then? 13:20:41 <talebowl> ah right, I forgot that. Thanks 13:23:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B318.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:24:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B318.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:03 <andythenorth> do buses and trucks have different running costs? 13:25:19 <andythenorth> I can only find PR_RUNNING_ROADVEH 13:26:44 <andythenorth> but I have variance between buses and trucks of 3 orders of magnitude 13:26:50 <andythenorth> and my code looks right 13:28:29 <andythenorth> hmm 13:28:53 <andythenorth> unrelated a loaded newgrf in this game screws with base costs 13:28:58 <andythenorth> for all vehicles 13:31:34 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-4744.vo.lu] has joined #openttd 13:34:53 <andythenorth> so I have a bus with run cost factor 27 13:35:07 <andythenorth> and running cost £1350 / yr 13:35:10 *** TheBix [~Esh@c122-107-86-91.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 13:35:17 <andythenorth> I have a freight tram with run cost factor 27 13:35:34 <andythenorth> and running cost £10 / yr 13:35:39 <andythenorth> did I just not get enough sleep? 13:35:42 <andythenorth> or is this odd? 13:35:49 <Phreeze> base running costs differ i think 13:36:01 <TheBix> hey guys 13:36:39 <frosch123> andythenorth: any callback involved? 13:36:44 <frosch123> articulated parts? 13:36:51 <andythenorth> articulated in some cases 13:36:57 <andythenorth> but it doesnât seem significant 13:37:03 <andythenorth> I donât recall a cost cb, Iâll check 13:37:45 <frosch123> never mind, for rv only the front matters 13:37:48 <frosch123> no articulated effect 13:37:59 <andythenorth> there are no CBs 13:38:15 <andythenorth> nor is it purchase list handling 13:40:29 <andythenorth> yair 13:40:59 <andythenorth> if I just specify 255 in the action 0 property, the buses are ~1000x more expensive to run 13:41:04 <andythenorth> compared to trucks 13:45:07 <andythenorth> running_cost_base wasnât set 13:45:09 <andythenorth> solved 13:45:31 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 13:45:34 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 13:51:03 *** Aristide [~quassel@78.250.82.51] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:58 <TheBix> guys im on windows 14:11:01 <TheBix> how do I make a patch file? 14:11:19 <frosch123> with your version control system 14:11:24 <frosch123> svn, hg, git 14:11:27 <Alberth> or with diff 14:12:54 <TheBix> what best practices should I use to make sure my patch is compatible with many others? 14:14:30 <frosch123> the patch format is more or less the same 14:14:40 <Alberth> use the unified diff format 14:15:40 <Alberth> add the revision in the filename of the patch file, so people know what version to apply the patch 14:16:43 <Alberth> ie something like my_change_r26453.patch 14:16:49 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@116.240.169.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:09 <TheBix> my patch should work for all verions 14:21:22 <TheBix> unless they change rain::GetCurrentMaxSpeed() 14:21:24 <TheBix> Train* 14:21:33 <TheBix> which I doubt happens much 14:21:52 <frosch123> i doubt it works for ottd < 0.5 :p 14:22:50 <TheBix> guys how do I tell if theres a signal on a track? 14:23:02 <frosch123> check rail_map.h 14:23:04 <Alberth> TheBix: unless you really verify every single revision, just claiming that it works for the one revision you used is much more feasible 14:23:18 <TheBix> Alberth, yes of course. 14:23:38 <Alberth> if other people want to apply it to another revision, your number gives them a starting point to start checking 14:25:27 <Alberth> a revision number is mostly just that, a starting point. Whether a patch can be applied to earlier or later revisions heavily depends on the patch itself 14:29:34 <planetmaker> I'm already happy when a patch works for the revision it claims to be made for ;) 14:31:09 <TheBix> any patches that people are interested in? 14:31:12 <TheBix> preferably little ones 14:31:17 <TheBix> i feel like writing one 14:31:51 <planetmaker> any of the bugs in our issue tracker which can interest you? 14:31:54 <TheBix> I just rewrote the ATC patch as a little practice thing (and also partially because people say its full of bugs and sucH) 14:32:45 <TheBix> planetmaker, can you link me the issue tracker? 14:34:19 <Alberth> bugs.openttd.org 14:37:16 <planetmaker> https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=&project=1&search_name=&type[]=1&sev[]=&pri[]=&due[]=0&reported[]=&cat[]=&status[]=open&percent[]=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=&do=index 14:37:24 <planetmaker> it gets long if one adds the filtering :) 14:48:27 *** montalvo [~montalvo@ip68-108-148-173.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 14:48:43 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 14:49:38 <andythenorth> balancing across sets is much easier when you make all of the sets :P 14:49:56 <frosch123> are you sure? 14:50:02 <frosch123> i mean you cannot blame anyone 14:50:16 <andythenorth> I blame the algorithm 14:58:37 <SpComb> the only good strategy for random online multiplayer games is a) a compact industry network to pay off your loan and generate some capital b) build out a massive passenger network 14:58:53 <SpComb> is there autoreplace for wagons? 14:59:11 <frosch123> yes, at the bottom you can select engines/wagons 14:59:25 <Alberth> :o never used that :) 14:59:42 <andythenorth> :o 14:59:43 <andythenorth> :) 15:00:00 <planetmaker> feature since... dunno, 2007? 15:00:04 <andythenorth> essential 15:00:05 <planetmaker> :) 15:00:08 <mg_> :-) 15:00:49 <andythenorth> slightly confusing because itâs a toggle 15:00:54 <andythenorth> but it doesnât look like a control 15:01:11 <andythenorth> and itâs not an on / off toggle 15:01:31 <andythenorth> and itâs next to a dropdown for replacing by railtype 15:01:40 <andythenorth> so quite easily missed as a function 15:03:35 *** kais58___ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:07:29 *** kais58___ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:07:39 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:13:28 *** kais58___ is now known as kais58|AFK 15:16:09 *** Hazzard_ is now known as Hazzard 15:16:12 <peter1138> Shoobedoobe. 15:20:46 <Phreeze> so 15:20:56 <Phreeze> dog is half dead after that walk ^^ 15:21:49 <frosch123> if you only do it half, it will recover 15:22:03 <Phreeze> that's what i intend^^ 15:22:06 <Phreeze> she shouldn't die ;) 15:23:16 <LordAro> TheBix, clearly you should http://freerct.org :p 15:23:54 <Phreeze> that free rct project is going way to slow 15:24:15 <Phreeze> blog started in 2011 15:24:34 <LordAro> your point? 15:24:43 <LordAro> contribute, then it can go faster! 15:24:43 <Phreeze> it will never be released as a final version ;) 15:24:43 <frosch123> don't start a blog 15:24:50 *** Eshays [~Esh@c122-107-86-91.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 15:25:05 <LordAro> Phreeze, and you think OTTD will ever have a final version? 15:25:19 <Phreeze> from version 1.0.0 it has 15:25:26 <Eshays> LordAro, what's freeRCT? 15:25:27 <Phreeze> for me it's a "complete" version 15:25:34 *** Eshays is now known as _TheBix 15:25:34 <Phreeze> free rollercoaster tycoon 15:26:08 <_TheBix> based of the real RCT code? 15:26:09 <LordAro> Phreeze, what makes you think frct will never reach that point? 15:26:09 <_TheBix> or not? 15:26:14 <LordAro> _TheBix, not 15:26:20 <LordAro> reimplementation only 15:26:23 <_TheBix> that's unfortunate 15:26:32 <_TheBix> RCT is now like rogue software 15:26:48 <LordAro> _TheBix, well, we're no chris sawyer, so we can't do the whole thing in x86 asm ;) 15:27:09 *** kais58|A1K [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:27:20 <_TheBix> LordAro, it would be good if there was a real openRCT2 15:27:22 <_TheBix> or something 15:27:24 <Alberth> actually, we can, but it would be even slower :p 15:27:30 <_TheBix> cuz right now I have a VM on my pc just to run RCT 15:27:56 <_TheBix> x86 asm is not too hard compared to c i guess 15:28:00 <_TheBix> esp if you use a good assembler 15:28:03 <frosch123> what version of rct is the popular one? 15:28:05 <frosch123> 1, 2, 3? 15:28:13 <_TheBix> frosch123, 1 and 2 15:28:13 <LordAro> frosch123, 1+2 15:28:23 <frosch123> what does 3 do wrong? 15:28:26 <LordAro> 3D 15:28:47 <LordAro> "<_TheBix> LordAro, it would be good if there was a real openRCT2" i think you'll find frct is attempting to do both ;) 15:28:53 *** kais58|AFK [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:28:53 <frosch123> interface? looks? 15:29:02 <LordAro> everything 15:29:11 <_TheBix> frosch123, its just not as in depth 15:29:17 <_TheBix> frosch123, its got a new 3d engine 15:29:18 <LordAro> well, probably not interface :L 15:29:28 <_TheBix> which is pretty good IMO 15:29:40 <_TheBix> however the only disadvantage is that it's not as in depth as the original 2 15:29:45 <_TheBix> IMO 15:30:03 <_TheBix> therefore its missing the appeal of the original ones 15:30:32 *** lugo [lugo@apple.bnc4free.com] has quit [Quit: I'm using a Free IRC Bouncer from BNC4FREE - http://bnc4free.com/] 15:30:52 <LordAro> i've never played it myself, but i hear it's a lot more buggy then the originals too 15:31:01 <LordAro> (likely because it's a completely different code base) 15:31:15 *** TheBix [~Esh@c122-107-86-91.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:31:22 *** _TheBix is now known as TheBix 15:32:02 <Phreeze> 17:26:10] <LordAro> Phreeze, what makes you think frct will never reach that point? 15:32:11 <Phreeze> cause it's under dev for over 3 years already 15:32:21 <Phreeze> and nothing remotely playable as it seems 15:32:32 *** lugo [lugo@apple.bnc4free.com] has joined #openttd 15:33:28 <LordAro> ottd was in development for 6 years (+ however many ludde spent on it before initial release) before it reached 1.0.0 15:33:41 <LordAro> and i would say there's playable stuff 15:33:47 <LordAro> you clearly haven't tried it 15:34:04 <Phreeze> it was niceley playable in version 0.6 too 15:34:27 <Phreeze> i think playable = everything works, no major bugs 15:34:34 <LordAro> sure, it's not a 'game' yet, but it's getting there 15:34:36 <Phreeze> even if oyu have to import graphics 15:34:47 <LordAro> i think frct is at the same point ;) 15:34:54 <LordAro> everything works 15:36:58 <LordAro> i'll freely admit development has been slow, but that's because it's largely developed by only 2 people, who both have day job/exams to worry about 15:37:09 <LordAro> (and 1 of those people doesn't do a huge amount :L ) 15:37:55 <frosch123> i've heard they also work on other silly projects 15:39:48 <Phreeze> they should push it more by advertising on open forums 15:40:15 <frosch123> nah, then you only get kids 15:40:45 <planetmaker> and we want the retirement brigade? :P 15:41:22 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-66-108-182-178.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:41:27 <LordAro> from my perspective, you're all (developers) old anyway :p 15:42:04 <planetmaker> you should have come to the last openttd meeting ;) 15:42:32 <LordAro> could've, but you'd all leave me out by speaking german :p 15:42:36 <frosch123> i am not sure about the average age of ottd vs frct :p 15:42:54 <frosch123> wut, noone spoke german 15:43:05 <planetmaker> LordAro, I can ensure you we didn't... only few actually could speak german 15:43:28 <LordAro> german/dutch ? 15:43:41 <frosch123> swedish/french/czech 15:43:51 <planetmaker> finnish 15:44:04 <LordAro> well, i'll put serious consideration into the next one ;) 15:44:35 <planetmaker> no English native speaker, though :P 15:44:53 <planetmaker> thus proven again: the international language is bad English :P 15:44:58 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-66-108-182-178.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:45:04 <Phreeze> luxembourgish ^^ 15:45:08 <Alberth> planetmaker: false, we had belugas 15:45:10 <Phreeze> k german english french too, and some spanish 15:45:11 <frosch123> nah, the brittish just cannot speak properly 15:45:15 <Phreeze> and some pirrrrate 15:45:22 <planetmaker> Alberth, his native language is not English :) 15:45:22 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-66-108-182-178.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:45:35 <planetmaker> (it's French) 15:45:43 <Alberth> oh, canadian of course :) 15:46:00 <Phreeze> you mean: bad accent french ? 15:46:13 <LordAro> Alberth, i thought you were Dutch? :L 15:46:43 <frosch123> anyway, we agreed on speeking unicornish at the start 15:46:50 <planetmaker> true :) 15:47:03 <Alberth> LordAro: I didn't claim to be english, did I? 15:48:35 <LordAro> Alberth, well, no, but.. 15:48:57 <LordAro> you certainly live in Dutch-land :p 15:49:07 <frosch123> dutchistan? 15:49:14 <LordAro> that's the one :p 15:49:24 <planetmaker> lol 15:49:30 * peter1138 ponders 512x256/very low towns 15:50:23 <frosch123> do 4kx4k with 2 tons 15:50:26 <frosch123> *towns 15:50:29 <Alberth> one town is enough :) 15:50:38 <planetmaker> :) 15:50:48 <planetmaker> totally flat, 2 towns, 4k^2 15:50:55 <planetmaker> no industries (initially) 15:50:55 <LordAro> one town, high industries 15:50:57 <planetmaker> no trees 15:51:10 <LordAro> see if some buffers can overflow :p 15:51:50 <LordAro> planetmaker, of course, the 2 towns have to be in 2 opposite corners 15:52:13 <Phreeze> 2 airports + afk 15:52:17 <planetmaker> No, if you want additional towns, fund them yourself 15:52:20 <__ln__> here's a critical patch that everyone's been waiting for: http://www.nbl.fi/~nbl3392/ottd/spellingfix_2014.diff 15:52:47 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-168-244-115.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 15:52:48 <Phreeze> spelling ? 15:53:24 <frosch123> Phreeze: ln submits a spelling diff every year 15:53:25 <peter1138> totally flat.. how tedious. 15:53:29 <frosch123> that's why the diff is called 2014 15:53:43 <Phreeze> what does it do ? :) 15:54:03 <LordAro> Phreeze, fixes spellings :p 15:54:25 <planetmaker> I guess we can accept the patch 15:54:54 <frosch123> one of the group fix suggestion patches also fixed a typo :) 15:54:57 <LordAro> i notice this still hasn't been fixed http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/fe8b973688d1/config.lib#l2234 :p 15:58:03 <planetmaker> sure that it's endianness with two 'n'? 15:58:18 <planetmaker> it looks so wrong to me :) 15:58:47 <LordAro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness 15:58:55 <__ln__> http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=endianess&word2=endianness 15:59:27 <planetmaker> the winner takes it all, eh? 15:59:56 *** TheBix [~Esh@c122-107-86-91.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:02 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r26458 /trunk (4 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-12 15:59:56 UTC) 16:00:03 <DorpsGek> -Doc: Correct a few spelling mistakes (__ln__) 16:00:08 <planetmaker> today is commit day 16:00:38 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.96.81.96] has joined #openttd 16:02:04 <__ln__> thanks 16:02:30 <planetmaker> thank you :) 16:07:58 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:12:00 *** efess [~Efess@c-50-169-48-221.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:19:38 <andythenorth> expensive, these trucks 16:19:54 <andythenorth> probably too expensive 16:22:27 <Alberth> the hard-game people will love you :) 16:24:19 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: Quitting.] 16:25:29 *** LSky [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:25:32 <Snail> hi guys, I just created a new task on flyspray 16:25:34 *** LSky [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #openttd [] 16:25:53 <Snail> my idea was to add a variable for trains that counts the tiles that have been traveled since the last visit to a station or depot 16:26:14 <Snail> I wonder if it has ever been proposed earlier? 16:27:24 <LordAro> what would be the purpose of this? 16:27:57 <frosch123> many sets use the amount of days since last service for liveries and such 16:29:07 <peter1138> Hmm, masses of passengers with CDist :S 16:31:24 <Phreeze> masses of passengers, now that they see, they are taking actually to their destination ^^ 16:32:06 <Alberth> not really, the tycoon still decides where you can go :p 16:33:14 <Snail> the purpose of this would be to allow some locomotives to travel longer distances than others 16:33:30 <Snail> in the old times, there were small tank steamers that had very little coal and water, and bigger ones that had a larger reservoir 16:33:57 <Snail> so, if you buy a small tank steamer and try to run it over a very long distance, it will slow down after a certain number of tiles traveled, because it will be running out of fuel 16:34:06 <Snail> just something to differentiate engines a bit better 16:34:40 <Snail> âamount of days since last serviceâ would not work, since an engine could stay idle at a signal, therefore using up very little fuel 16:36:17 <andythenorth> Snail: game balancing is over-rated :) 16:36:41 <Phreeze> realism is overrated ;) 16:36:56 <Snail> well, look at it as a way to make small tank steamers cheaper to buy :p 16:37:38 <Alberth> with the amount of cash that you usually have? :) 16:37:56 <andythenorth> just make them cheaper? o_O 16:38:04 <andythenorth> Snail: how many engines do you have? 16:38:08 <Snail> and then no one would buy the bigger ones :p 16:38:27 <Snail> in the NG set, there are a dozen steamers (1880 - 1940) 16:38:51 <Snail> and a few diesel railcars this variable would be useful for as well 16:39:28 <Phreeze> on a long trip, you could add dummy stations 16:39:35 <Phreeze> as "refuel points" then 16:39:40 <andythenorth> Snail: just delete 8 of them. Youâll feel good when you do it. 16:39:56 <andythenorth> 4 is enough for 60 years 16:40:01 <Phreeze> 4 steamers for 60 years ??? 16:40:01 <Snail> andythenorth: just donât use 8 of them if you play with the set :D 16:40:21 <Alberth> but they clutter the buy menu :) 16:40:26 <andythenorth> not just that 16:40:27 <Phreeze> if there are 6 freight 6 passenger, it's ok 16:40:31 <andythenorth> they clutter the grf authorâs brain 16:40:39 <andythenorth> too much work trying to âbalanceâ 16:40:44 <andythenorth> but there is no âbalance' 16:40:47 <Snail> donât worry, my brain is already cluttered enough :p 16:41:07 <Alberth> it's realistic, there is no balance? 16:41:14 <Snail> at the end of the day, itâs a design decision, and every grf author thinks in a different way 16:41:26 <Snail> I think itâs pointless to convince someone to adopt ideas other than his own ;) 16:41:41 <andythenorth> well yes 16:42:02 <andythenorth> doesnât stop me and Pikka though 16:42:19 <Snail> no need to stop anyone :) 16:42:38 <Alberth> Snail: it may trigger you into reconsidering your initial ideas 16:42:39 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 16:43:06 <Alberth> which is never a bad thing, if only to confirm they are still valid 16:43:33 <Snail> I already thought about them, my point is to give the set an array of possibilities the player can choose from 16:44:09 <Alberth> like almost all newgrfs 16:44:22 <frosch123> well, if you ask an ai author, e will likely say it should be done the same as aircraft ranges 16:44:35 <frosch123> no ai can figure out when a newgrf suddenly decreases power after some distance 16:45:30 <Snail> but an ai could use an engine over distances that are smaller or equal than an engineâs range 16:45:42 <andythenorth> the solution is to just build more depots? 16:45:42 <Snail> if the distance is larger, switch to another engine 16:45:43 <planetmaker> omg, a range property for trains? Na 16:45:46 <planetmaker> -1 from me 16:45:59 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:59 <andythenorth> I am +/-0 16:46:11 <frosch123> planetmaker: yeah, would be hard to implement or play with :p 16:46:18 <andythenorth> it would add some extra choices, but ultimately you just build yet more depots 16:46:19 <frosch123> who knows how long a distance is 16:46:26 <andythenorth> the only really challenge is that depot routing is totally borked 16:46:28 <Snail> why hard to play with? 16:46:31 <frosch123> make a detour and then the train is screwed :p 16:46:44 <planetmaker> the same gameplay behaviour indeed can be achieved with day since last service 16:46:51 <Snail> use certain engines for short, suburban trains, and others for longer spans 16:46:52 <frosch123> Snail: if i have a winding track in the hills, who knows how long it is? 16:46:59 <Snail> planetmaker: not really 16:47:05 <frosch123> time is at least something you can measure 16:47:18 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:47:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:47:27 <Snail> because an engine could stay idle at a signal, therefore not using up fuel. So âdaysâ since last service wouldnât work 16:47:41 <Snail> itâs âdistanceâ (= tiles traveled) that matters 16:48:03 <frosch123> maybe, but neither humans nor ais would figure it out 16:48:20 <Snail> humans would⊠why not? 16:48:27 <Snail> you build the line, so you can see how long it is 16:48:27 <planetmaker> no way 16:48:40 <frosch123> yeah, that only works on very flat maps with straight lines 16:48:42 <planetmaker> how do I know how long the windy road accross the mountain is? 16:48:44 <andythenorth> snail, wondering if you can get same result with reliability? 16:48:53 <andythenorth> planetmaker: you can guess at that by eye, tbh 16:48:58 <Alberth> Snail: how long is this track? http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/long_way_up.png 16:49:09 <planetmaker> for a curvy irregular path which I can't see at once? Hardly 16:49:31 <andythenorth> itâs longer than 32 tiles 16:49:36 <Snail> planetmaker: this would work only to differentiate âurbanâ from ânot urbanâ traits 16:49:43 <Snail> of course it depends on how you use this variable 16:49:52 <andythenorth> you wouldnât use these engines for > 16 tiles or so 16:50:11 <andythenorth> can you just make them viciously unreliable instead? 16:50:14 <andythenorth> gets same result 16:50:34 <Snail> andythenorth: no, because reliability isnât set back up to max when visiting stations 16:51:01 <Snail> while an engine could refill there (provided a water tower is there, but letâs assume every station has got one) 16:51:03 <andythenorth> ah so itâs station based 16:51:06 <andythenorth> not depot based 16:51:10 <Snail> station and depot 16:51:38 <planetmaker> upping reliability at stations, too, is something I'd be much more in favour of 16:52:00 <planetmaker> also even without, just use proper orders to service your trains 16:52:04 <Snail> in my set, I could differentiate trains with a range of, say, <20 tiles (small tank engines), <200 tiles (tender steamers) and unlimited (electrics) 16:52:12 <planetmaker> 20 tiles?! 16:52:23 <Snail> yes, for urban trains 16:52:36 <Snail> maybe not 20, say 40. Iâd have to balance it out. But it would be my jon 16:52:38 <Snail> *job 16:53:04 <Snail> Iâd just like to be given this possibility.. if itâs not too hard to program 16:54:24 <andythenorth> shame thereâs no vehicle-local storage 16:54:24 <planetmaker> tbh, still not a feature I'd like to see. It's cryptic to comprehend. Train paths are not predictable when there's several options 16:54:30 <andythenorth> you could just write it yourself 16:54:44 <andythenorth> just check speed each time cb runs, and incrememnt a counter 16:55:51 <planetmaker> even the range property for planes works badly 16:56:02 <planetmaker> and there the distance is easy in comparison 16:56:16 <andythenorth> I find it kind of pointless 16:56:21 <andythenorth> just means building another airport 16:56:36 <andythenorth> itâs as annoying as pathfinding range on ships, which is at least a computational issue 16:56:42 <planetmaker> yeah. And adding 100s of go via stations 16:56:47 <Snail> planetmaker: again, for trains the distance would work dividing the engines in two, such as âshort distanceâ vs. âany distanceâ 16:57:04 <andythenorth> Snail: what else could solve this for you? o-O 16:57:11 <Snail> of course I wouldnât program it to force the player to count the tiles... 16:57:29 <planetmaker> what's distance? 16:57:32 <andythenorth> Snail: are you using the animation frame? 16:57:40 <Snail> andythenorth: Iâve thought about it⊠I think this is the best solution 16:57:43 <Snail> andythenorth: yes 16:57:47 <andythenorth> nvm 16:57:53 <andythenorth> you could have used it as a counter 16:57:54 <Snail> I mean my steamers are animated. Why? 16:58:02 <planetmaker> how does it behave if I build a straight track, send the train to go and then cut that and send it on a detour of 8k tiles length? 16:58:05 <frosch123> andythenorth: you do to much industries 16:58:10 <andythenorth> I do? 16:58:13 <andythenorth> :P 16:58:14 <planetmaker> what if the shortest route is one-way only? 16:58:22 <planetmaker> and I just flip the signal? 16:58:39 <andythenorth> Snail: would you consider re-coding your set so each âvehicleâ is made up of multiple parts, some invisible 16:58:40 <andythenorth> ? 16:58:42 <Snail> planetmaker: then you would need to use an engine with a longer ârangeâ. Simple as that 16:59:02 <planetmaker> Snail, but it already started. now it's on the way, I modify the path. what now? 16:59:04 <Snail> andythenorth: some of my vehicles are already like that 16:59:09 <Alberth> planetmaker: it gets tricky only when a train causes such detours 16:59:20 <andythenorth> do vehicles have an animation âframeâ? 16:59:23 <planetmaker> Alberth, easy to devise such setup :) 16:59:32 <planetmaker> or conditional orders 16:59:36 *** burty [~chatzilla@90.246.187.232] has joined #openttd 16:59:43 <planetmaker> if load% > 0 goto short else goto 10k tiles 16:59:56 <Snail> planetmaker: then, since you modified the track, your choice of engine could have been made better... 17:00:08 * andythenorth is wondering if invisible vehicles can be used as storage 17:00:31 <Snail> because in such a context, short-range trains are for short lines only, which shouldnât be lengthened. If your service might include detours, itâd be safer to buy the longer-range engine 17:01:30 <andythenorth> hmm 17:01:45 <andythenorth> thereâs never any profit in arguing with a newgrf author who has a fixed idea :) 17:01:53 <Snail> :D 17:01:54 <andythenorth> speaking from experience :P 17:02:13 <burty> I'm trying to run the ServerGS that I downloaded from the in game content download... I just keep getting "Your script made an eror: the index WID_GS_RESTRICT_LABEL does not exist". I'll post on the forum thread but I was hoping that someone might be able to give me a quicker response here :) 17:02:22 <Snail> well, I thought about this before. The reason why Iâm proposing it, is because I couldnât find any workaround 17:02:27 <Snail> otherwise I wouldnât be bothering you ;) 17:02:44 <planetmaker> I see really no game play benefit at all 17:02:59 <andythenorth> planetmaker: thatâs not the purpose of most newgrfs ;) 17:03:04 <andythenorth> youâre making an invalid assumption 17:03:13 <andythenorth> most newgrfs benefit the author 17:03:32 * andythenorth looks in the extended vars 17:04:19 <Snail> not just the author, but even some players who might think like him 17:04:21 <planetmaker> length restriction itself can be a tool to achieve something. But if the idea is to have long distance trains vs. short distance trains and make it matter, then e.g. load speed vs. driving speed already help nicely to make a difference 17:04:50 <Snail> planetmaker: load speed only matters for wagons or railcars, not locomotives 17:05:10 <Snail> driving speed is more of a thing to differentiate freight vs. pax, and generally increases with time 17:05:15 <andythenorth> we mostly use manhattan distance between stations? 17:05:21 <andythenorth> we donât pathfind for tile count? 17:05:24 <Alberth> burty: that label got deleted in r26320 17:05:51 <andythenorth> this could be a thing when setting orders, but it would have to be manhattan I would imagine 17:06:03 <andythenorth> and moving the station sign (for example) would be a problem 17:06:06 <Alberth> burty: about 2 months ago 17:06:35 <Snail> andythenorth: why would moving the station sign be a problem? 17:06:54 <planetmaker> probably andythenorth is right though. I simply should not argue against it. No point :P 17:07:15 <andythenorth> planetmaker: reality is, someone will patch it, or someone wonât 17:07:23 <andythenorth> the amount of stuff that just turns up is quite high 17:07:25 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:07:35 <andythenorth> the amount of stuff that goes in after long long discussion is relatively low 17:07:40 <planetmaker> station sign determines distance between stations, Snail 17:07:44 <andythenorth> at least, low compared to amount of discussing :P 17:07:55 <Snail> oh, so that would be a problem for AI? 17:08:04 <andythenorth> and if this was a restriction on orders 17:08:17 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3A77.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:08:20 <Snail> andythenorth: I see. Well, I wasnât imaging it as a restriction on orders 17:08:31 <Snail> I donât know if that would work well 17:08:31 <planetmaker> it's a severe restriction 17:08:45 <planetmaker> AIs fail already on plane orders when they're restricted in range 17:08:50 <Snail> yes, so I was thinking about just adding this âtiles traveledâ variable, and nothing else 17:08:57 <andythenorth> but at least it would be consistent, if done as range 17:09:03 <andythenorth> not Yet Another Mechanic 17:09:25 <Snail> then, it would be my job, as a newgrf developer, to code certain trains in such a way that they would travel slower when this new âtiles traveledâ variable is greater than X 17:09:34 * andythenorth canât see anything useful in extended vars 17:09:35 <Snail> and to clearly document this in the purchase list 17:09:49 <planetmaker> how do AIs read purchase list? 17:09:54 <Snail> I agree that restricting the orders would be too complex and âdangerous" 17:10:02 <burty> Alberth: oh right. I'll have to try the one thats on the thread then :) 17:10:51 <Alberth> burty: it got replaced by WID_GS_RESTRICT_CATEGORY and WID_GS_RESTRICT_TYPE 17:10:59 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 17:11:05 <Snail> planetmaker: AIs could perhaps read this âXâ (maximum distance) for each train and then only use an engine if the distance between the stations it will serve is greater than âXâ? 17:11:24 <Alberth> although I fail somewhat in understanding what a GS needs with the advanced settings window :) 17:11:42 <planetmaker> Alberth, it's needed e.g. for tutoriaGS 17:12:11 <Alberth> a ServerGS? :) 17:12:18 <andythenorth> whatâs the max value of motion counter var? 17:12:49 <planetmaker> very big. but NML's might be broken 17:13:02 <planetmaker> Alberth, hm... ServerGS probably not :) 17:13:42 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:13:46 <andythenorth> Snail: if the motion counter is big enough, and your distance is short enough, that might work 17:13:56 <Snail> planetmaker: not a problem for me, I donât use NML 17:14:31 <Snail> andythenorth: how would it work? 17:16:42 <planetmaker> I was also talking to andy... 17:22:53 *** burty [~chatzilla@90.246.187.232] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 28.0/20140314220517]] 17:25:25 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:01 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:03 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 17:38:15 *** kais58|A1K is now known as kais58___ 17:45:54 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26459 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2014-04-12 17:45:43 UTC) 17:45:55 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:56 <DorpsGek> catalan - 2 changes by juanjo 17:45:57 <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 10 changes by siu238X, xiangyigao 17:45:58 <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 1 changes by siu238X 17:45:59 <DorpsGek> finnish - 2 changes by jpx_ 17:46:00 <DorpsGek> russian - 2 changes by Lone_Wolf 18:19:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:22:54 <andythenorth> Snail: motion counter is a 32 bit value http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles#Motion_counter_.2846.29 18:23:09 <andythenorth> if Iâve understood correctly that could be used to count tile motion 18:24:08 <andythenorth> hmm itâs not reset when visiting depot probably 18:26:06 <frosch123> you cannot change power or something on open track anyway 18:26:11 <frosch123> it will desync 18:26:31 <frosch123> you cannot change cached values at random times 18:26:50 <Snail> frosch123: but for instance, I can change TE upon entering a track of a different railtype 18:26:51 <frosch123> so, changing stats fails anyway, no matter what var 18:26:57 <Snail> and speed as well... 18:27:05 <frosch123> yes, track change updates the cache 18:27:19 <frosch123> but not normal driving 18:27:36 <Snail> I see⊠not even entering a new tile? 18:27:52 <planetmaker> that would halt OpenTTD to a crawl 18:28:09 <planetmaker> frosch123, thinking of something like http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/index.php?source=tmp.diff for map cache? 18:28:17 <planetmaker> (No usage yet made of it in the patch) 18:29:39 <frosch123> "bits 0...9" ? 18:29:56 <planetmaker> max. value we can get from the function as-is-implemented is 0x200 18:30:34 <frosch123> is there a need to bit stuff that in the first place? 18:30:41 <frosch123> it's not going to the savegame 18:30:51 <peter1138> Don't forget to add a few uint32s to store track usage counters... 18:31:04 <planetmaker> no. But it's an uint16 and we could add other stuff in the remaining bits? Or just leaving them blank? 18:31:27 <planetmaker> would be waste of 6bits per tile 18:31:31 <frosch123> don't safe space if there is no need to :) 18:31:41 <frosch123> there is no reason for saving space here 18:31:49 <frosch123> that was the point :p 18:31:56 <peter1138> Why do you need to cache water distance again? 18:32:08 <planetmaker> even not when considering speed? 18:32:14 <frosch123> anyway, do you want to use ReInitWaterDistanceCache in some other module? 18:32:15 <planetmaker> peter1138, better shipping lanes 18:32:17 <frosch123> else it could be static 18:32:29 <frosch123> or if you like more c++, those functions could be static members of TileCache 18:32:45 <planetmaker> for now it can be static, yes. I'm not sure whether it needs to be called for large-scale landscaping 18:32:53 <peter1138> Not using water class for that? 18:33:04 <frosch123> water class is troublesome 18:33:13 <frosch123> water class is very different from distance to coast 18:33:15 <planetmaker> that's more a pain. 18:33:28 <planetmaker> I tried that first, peter1138 and it gets very ugly 18:33:41 <frosch123> planetmaker: i guess static member functions would look fance, e.g. TileCache::UpdateWaterDistance 18:33:49 <planetmaker> the gain is also much more limited than just caching coastal distance 18:34:03 <planetmaker> aye, I guess I could go that way, yes 18:34:56 <peter1138> How often do you need the coastal distance? 18:35:16 <frosch123> when using the pathfinder all the time 18:35:22 <planetmaker> peter1138, the idea is to differ between coastal vessels and trans-ocean vessels 18:35:31 <planetmaker> and then the PF... 18:36:43 <peter1138> Seems like a shed load of effort for a feature nobody is going to use. 18:37:00 <Snail> âthe idea is to differ between coastal vessels and trans-ocean vesselsâ 18:37:15 <peter1138> BAD FEATURE or something heh 18:37:23 <planetmaker> BAD indeed 18:37:26 <Snail> how different is it from differ between short-distance tank steamers and long-distance tender steamers? :p 18:37:35 <planetmaker> very 18:37:40 <planetmaker> it's the track type, Snail 18:37:42 <Snail> ok, tell me how :) 18:38:04 <planetmaker> and railtypes are there at your disposal :) 18:38:13 <Snail> you mean we have different âwater types"? 18:38:14 <andythenorth> thereâs an existing distinction via canal / sea speed fraction 18:38:19 <planetmaker> we do 18:38:21 <andythenorth> but itâs of limited use 18:38:34 <Snail> meaning canal vs. sea? 18:38:34 <peter1138> WaterClassses are roughly the water equivalent of RailTypes, so... 18:39:01 <andythenorth> ships can set different speeds for canal (& river) or sea 18:39:10 <frosch123> planetmaker: on second though, maybe storing the complete distance is a bit too much; limiting it to storing distances < 64 or something would allow incremental updates 18:39:16 <planetmaker> I won't argue that the thing, if finished, is of marginal gain. But it's fun to do :) 18:39:25 <frosch123> peter1138: water classes are fixed on map construction 18:39:27 <NGC3982> Evening. 18:39:28 <andythenorth> I think the canal / sea speed fraction is a BAD FEATURE 18:39:36 <andythenorth> but as it exists, I feel obliged to use it 18:39:36 <frosch123> they are stored in industry tiles, exposed to newgrf and whatever 18:39:36 <planetmaker> that was my first thought, too, frosch123. I even thought of like 16 tiles 18:39:41 <NGC3982> Sea speed fraction? 18:39:54 <andythenorth> how is this news to everyone? :P 18:39:58 <frosch123> you cannot just add a 5th one, not would it solve the problem here 18:40:13 <frosch123> planetmaker: 16 is also fine 18:40:20 <planetmaker> frosch123, it would. If they dynamically changed or got re-computed 18:40:34 <planetmaker> but that's way more messy... they're used in many, many places :) 18:40:42 <peter1138> Whatever happened to more height levels? 18:40:52 <peter1138> (Can you guess where I'm going?) 18:41:02 <planetmaker> yes, I do. I quoted that option earlier today :P 18:41:27 <planetmaker> (more height levels with neg. height or offset) 18:41:31 <frosch123> height levels were not updated for long 18:41:40 <frosch123> multiple sea level never made it anywhere 18:41:58 <peter1138> Was a long time ago. Was nice :p 18:42:00 <planetmaker> peter1138, but that's not an exclusive thing, can even be complementary 18:42:23 <planetmaker> the cache is transient. Height levels are part of map 18:42:31 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-168-244-115.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Herp derp] 18:42:34 <andythenorth> I just want to say now... 18:42:44 <peter1138> TMWFTLB? :D 18:42:47 <planetmaker> so if there's height levels which define deep sea... fine. For shipping purposes they then can take over coastal distance 18:42:54 <andythenorth> I can fix the gameplay issue in Squid without needing the whole map rewritten⊠18:42:57 <peter1138> Andy will use the feature, but never release anything with it :D 18:43:02 <frosch123> i doubt height levels for sea will ever happen :p 18:43:14 <andythenorth> peter1138: I refer you to the bundle server :P 18:43:27 <frosch123> the patch from r10k or something shows issues which will hardly get solved 18:43:32 <planetmaker> frosch123, *if* we get MHL, then one level for deep/shallow sea surely would be possible :) 18:43:44 <andythenorth> if youâre having fun with this carry on 18:43:45 <frosch123> nope, that's my point 18:43:58 <andythenorth> otherwise I just take the speed penalty off the river boats when at sea 18:44:00 <frosch123> multiple level flooding is silly/broken at best 18:44:03 <andythenorth> problem solved 18:44:23 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I'm (currently) not rewriting the map. I'm just adding caching for frequently-used values. And this is one way it can be used 18:44:24 <frosch123> there were patches to raise the sea level in the past 18:44:41 <andythenorth> planetmaker: :) 18:45:42 <andythenorth> what counts as âreleaseâ these days anyway? 18:45:51 <andythenorth> bundles? bananas? alpha in forums? 18:45:59 <andythenorth> v1.0? 18:46:28 <planetmaker> well, release fish2/squid anyway :) 18:46:48 <planetmaker> make a new release if and when I finish this toy :P 18:47:04 <andythenorth> the only thing blocking Squid are some ugly ships 18:47:09 <andythenorth> I could turn them off 18:47:42 <planetmaker> draw some flowers on them, then they're beautiful. Hippy-class steamer ferry 18:49:19 <planetmaker> brb 18:52:58 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has joined #openttd 18:59:32 <andythenorth> Snail: if you could find some storage, you could use the motion counter and 80+ var 16 (station index) http://marcin.ttdpatch.net/sv1codec/TTD-locations.html 18:59:45 <andythenorth> but I donât know if anyone has found a way to do storage on a vehicle 18:59:51 <Snail> hmm 18:59:57 <Snail> Iâll try to see if I can do it 19:00:20 <Snail> but I guess the problem here is caching, since I canât change a vehicleâs top speed while itâs in motion 19:00:28 <Snail> and CB32 doesnât help either 19:00:31 <andythenorth> I wonder if there are cb36 props that you could abuse on invisible vehicles 19:00:34 <andythenorth> for storage 19:00:42 <andythenorth> they only change occasionally 19:00:49 <frosch123> there is no storage for vehicles 19:01:01 <frosch123> stuff only changes triggered by the player 19:01:02 <andythenorth> frosch123: you could set a property and then later read it? 19:01:09 <andythenorth> cb36, change at station 19:01:13 <andythenorth> never tried 19:01:19 <andythenorth> would have to be on invisible vehicle 19:01:31 <frosch123> there is no storage :) 19:01:37 <frosch123> the best you can get is a desync 19:02:02 <frosch123> by abusing caches 19:02:09 <andythenorth> so I couldnât use, for example, TE value as storage? 19:03:37 <andythenorth> supposed to be 0 for articulated parts, so no dice 19:03:59 <andythenorth> use the offset values on visual effect? 19:05:10 <frosch123> when joining a game everything is reset 19:05:22 <andythenorth> ah 19:05:26 <frosch123> so everything that you cannot tell from the vehicles being on the track is lost 19:05:33 <frosch123> and any differences will result in a desync 19:05:53 <andythenorth> Snail: âlimitations are goodâ ? 19:05:54 <andythenorth> :P 19:06:49 <Snail> well, limitations that let the player explore the set in its entirety are good IMO :p 19:07:05 <Snail> otherwise youâd always go for the âfastest, most powerfulâ engine :) 19:07:23 <Snail> but then again, some people will say my set will be full of BAD FEATURES. Oh well 19:09:23 <andythenorth> canât be helped 19:12:45 <Snail> :) 19:21:59 <planetmaker> V453000's thread should have been titled "what are bad features if you want to play a transportation game". The bad features are not bad if you want to build a simulation game. 19:23:12 <andythenorth> v is a diplomatist 19:25:20 <planetmaker> that's putting it diplomatic :P 19:25:24 <planetmaker> http://www.cheapass.com/node/66 19:25:44 * andythenorth is also a diplomatist 19:25:47 <andythenorth> famously 19:27:01 <Phreeze> lol 19:27:08 <frosch123> i such cases i am always disappointed that dorpsgek has no full shell syntax 19:27:28 <frosch123> i would like to visualise diplomacy using "users | xargs kick" 19:29:41 <planetmaker> :) 19:42:45 <LordAro> frosch123, patch it :p 19:43:34 <Phreeze> how do you all sort your trains in newgrfs ? i'm not sure if i should sort by engine, then name 19:43:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 19:43:41 <Phreeze> or just date of appearance 19:44:01 <frosch123> sort them by type of usage 19:45:50 <planetmaker> yup. Type of usage is best. That cannot be done by filter 19:46:05 <planetmaker> date, power, speed,... all possible anyway 19:46:45 <planetmaker> destroys my usual behaviour though to look at the bottom of the list after lengthy scrolling ;) 19:46:47 <Phreeze> type of usage -> freight or passenger ? 19:47:08 <planetmaker> whatever usage groups you have 19:47:22 <frosch123> pax/freight, strong/fast, local/distance 19:47:22 <planetmaker> express pax, local pax, light fright, heavy fright... dunno :) 19:47:22 <Phreeze> there isn't any more in OTTD^^ 19:47:31 <Phreeze> ah k yeah 19:47:40 <planetmaker> oh, there definitely is. Depends on how you design your stats 19:48:20 <Taede> just look at nuts, there's a half a dozen classes just for rail 19:48:56 <planetmaker> I just wanted to suggest a conversation with Mr Bad Features ;) 19:49:42 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts lists all classes, though 19:52:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:52:48 <Phreeze> wetrail wtf 19:52:53 <Phreeze> i should try that nuts grf once xD 19:53:08 <Taede> yeah, if you include the nuttier classes, you get over a dozen i think 19:53:31 <frosch123> only 11 19:54:00 <Phreeze> i dont have as much engines 19:54:05 <frosch123> and the 11th class is no class, but just the vehicles which fit no other class 19:54:26 <planetmaker> wetrail is no crazier than pipeline or powerline rail ;) 19:54:30 <Taede> still a lot 19:54:56 <Alberth> the various PURR tracks add up quickly 19:55:04 <Phreeze> 22 from 1954+ 19:55:22 <Phreeze> i havent started to draw steamers 19:55:30 <Phreeze> it's a pita ^^ 19:55:47 <Alberth> you have many rail types available, all the time 19:56:17 <frosch123> well, if you have a realism-based set, you will likely have "distant pax", "local pax", "light freight", "heavy freight", "mountainous freight" 19:56:50 <frosch123> depending on origin, maybe less freight classes and more diverse local pax 19:56:52 <Phreeze> ah i see now that i can give the trains an ID by inclkuding an int in FEAT_Trains function 19:57:09 <frosch123> you should give them an id anyway 19:57:18 <Phreeze> i just left it away, it will then take the order as i coded them 19:57:20 <frosch123> the id is what matters for savegame compatibilty when updating your set 19:57:28 <Phreeze> oh ok 19:57:35 <Phreeze> can i start at 1000 ? 19:57:40 <planetmaker> sure 19:57:43 <frosch123> if you don't give an id, you break stuff when reording your code :) 19:57:48 <Phreeze> i think if i take 20 or so, it may mess up with original trains 19:58:03 <planetmaker> but the actual ID does not matter at all. Just do it sequentially, starting at 1 19:58:07 <Phreeze> still so much to learn and discover.. 19:58:24 <planetmaker> It also doesn't matter for sorting. You can define sorting separately 19:58:46 <andythenorth> planetmaker: good article 19:58:50 <planetmaker> it's just a number important for savegame compatibility. Which doesn't matter for anyone except those who develop it ;) 19:59:43 * andythenorth goes in 10s 19:59:46 <andythenorth> :p 19:59:53 <andythenorth> for articulated parts reasons 20:00:01 <andythenorth> but donât pay attention to what I do 20:00:45 <frosch123> everyone should learn some "traditional basic", just to learn about how to deal with numbers :) 20:01:01 <andythenorth> I learnt Basic 20:01:08 <andythenorth> dunno if it had types 20:01:17 <planetmaker> not sure anymore either. 20:01:26 <planetmaker> 10: DIM A 30 20:01:36 <planetmaker> 20: A = "blah blah" 20:01:37 <andythenorth> ha, Iâd forgotten DIM 20:01:38 <frosch123> 10 $andy = $input 20:01:59 <frosch123> planetmaker: i don't think there were colons 20:01:59 <andythenorth> I just made swearwords in random color 20:02:04 <andythenorth> over and over again 20:02:09 <andythenorth> no colons 20:02:10 <planetmaker> I totally forgot the syntax 20:02:14 <andythenorth> I have BBC Emulator here 20:02:26 <andythenorth> there is BeebEm for OS X 20:02:29 <planetmaker> it's like 20+ years ago I wrote GW basic... 20:02:48 <andythenorth> oh you probably never had BBC micro computers outside of UK :P 20:03:39 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has joined #openttd 20:03:55 <Phreeze> thats old 20:04:02 <frosch123> oh, it's "andy$", not "$andy" 20:04:03 <Phreeze> i only started with some 386 i think 20:04:21 <Phreeze> dont know if i touched a 286 before 20:04:40 <Phreeze> the 386 had 25mhz and a 14 inch scren, vga ! 20:05:24 <frosch123> planetmaker: 24 for me :p 20:06:19 <frosch123> Phreeze: at least you know the times with a "turbo button" :) 20:06:44 <andythenorth> did that turn on the maths co-processor? 20:06:48 <andythenorth> why was it ever turned off? 20:06:49 <Alberth> andythenorth: I had one 20:06:50 <Phreeze> yeah, but "turbo" was always on 20:06:51 <andythenorth> some stuff crashed? 20:06:51 <frosch123> though it was actually a turbo switch at the back(!) of the 8088 i had 20:06:59 <Phreeze> in fact it was more a "unpress to slow down" 20:07:18 <frosch123> andythenorth: it was a hardware daylength patch 20:07:19 <Phreeze> 486 dx 50 went down to 25 by unpressing 20:07:33 <Phreeze> i had to turn it off for 1 game 20:07:44 <andythenorth> 2Mhz 6502 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Micro 20:07:46 <Pinkbeast> We had 486/66s that went down to 8 with turbo off, supplied with half of them wired up the wrong way round, endless comedy 20:07:56 <andythenorth> 32KB 20:08:22 <Pinkbeast> At least you got to play with most of that 32K in MODE 7 :-) 20:08:25 * andythenorth is actually old 20:08:27 <Alberth> yep, unless you used mode 0, which ate 20KB 20:09:04 * Pinkbeast is going to strongly dispute the idea that having used the Beeb makes you actually old, albeit with a transparently self-serving motive 20:09:05 <planetmaker> we're playing the MHz downscale game? I can only offer 10 MHz minimum for my first computer, a 286 20:09:11 <Phreeze> mode7, for SNES ;) 20:09:30 <planetmaker> with turbo key which toggled it to 12 MHz. I really wondered what people thought they were useful for 20:09:46 <Pinkbeast> Phreeze: It's also the teletext mode for the Beeb - no graphics, just words and colours, but only 1K. Text adventures used it. 20:09:47 <planetmaker> turbo was indeed always on 20:10:08 <frosch123> we should tell people who want a daylength patch to get a computer with turbo switch instead 20:10:14 <planetmaker> hahaha :) 20:10:26 <Phreeze> in fact, the turbo was a BAD FEATURE 20:10:34 <Phreeze> we can close the topic now xD 20:10:36 <frosch123> or when their 4kx4k map runs slow: press the turbo button on the back of your prc 20:10:39 <frosch123> -r 20:10:47 <planetmaker> that's good advice 20:10:58 <planetmaker> if it's not there, it's inside the chassais 20:11:04 <Phreeze> it's funny how the turbo is used nowadays 20:11:09 <Pinkbeast> Even on a 486/66 some DOS games ran a bit stupidly fast 20:11:12 <Phreeze> even laptops overclock themselves.i dont like it 20:11:44 <Phreeze> some years back, AMD build processors with locked multipliers so you couldnt overclock them... 20:12:13 <Phreeze> (only with silver-compound or a pencil) 20:13:13 <planetmaker> well, i7 also auto-overclocks itself on one core, if the rest is idel 20:13:16 <planetmaker> *idle 20:13:21 <planetmaker> but that's not a button I can press 20:13:58 <Phreeze> yeah, not as cool 20:14:13 <Phreeze> i always like the digital number on the PC 20:14:16 <Phreeze> showing the mhz :) 20:14:27 <Phreeze> later i build a LCD Panel for that ;) 20:14:59 <frosch123> haha, the digital display with the old power button was silly actually 20:15:08 <peter1138> MODE 7 20:15:09 <frosch123> it looked as if the computer really displayed something 20:15:24 <frosch123> but it was just hard wired what bits to light when the button was down or up 20:15:40 <Phreeze> shhhhht 20:15:50 <Phreeze> i changed the turbo off LEDs later ;) 20:15:59 <Phreeze> was 25, i modded to 75 20:16:11 <Phreeze> so it went from 50 (turbo on) to 75 (tubo off) 20:16:19 <Phreeze> friends were just WOOOOOWing :D 20:16:25 <frosch123> :p 20:16:42 <frosch123> that sounds like some serious computer skills 20:16:47 <Phreeze> HAX 20:17:00 <frosch123> how to make your computer run faster 20:17:12 <frosch123> bridge these two pins on the lcd panel 20:17:16 <Phreeze> *look like it could run faster* 20:17:38 <Phreeze> in fact, my pentium 60 board was awesome: a jumper set the mhz. i just put it to 75 :) 20:17:53 <Phreeze> was 50 60 75 i guess, not sure what the lower number was 20:18:58 <Phreeze> can someone explain me how Tractive effort is calculated by openttd? i didn't define it, but it shows up. Can i modify that manually too ? 20:19:17 <planetmaker> set the property 20:19:53 <frosch123> in the grf you set the friction coefficient 20:20:08 <frosch123> ottd computed the te by multiplying that with the weight 20:20:24 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles has the actual explanation in the property description 20:23:08 <Phreeze> hm i see i see 20:23:24 <Phreeze> i think i'll live with the ottd calculated ones 20:26:21 <andythenorth> theyâre âcorrect' 20:26:33 <andythenorth> I only change them to dibble specific vehicles for game balance 20:28:29 <Phreeze> i'm just preparing tracks and vehicles for a screenshot of all the vehicles.... 20:28:34 <Phreeze> WHEN A UFO LANDS ON THEM 20:31:18 <andythenorth> bye 20:31:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:31:48 <frosch123> Phreeze: photo bombing :) 20:32:15 *** Natio [~Natio@x1-6-e0-46-9a-98-35-7a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 20:39:57 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:46:43 *** strohalm [~smoofi@80.84.209.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:56 *** strohalm [~smoofi@80.84.209.151] has joined #openttd 20:47:48 *** talebowl [~delltvgat@ip-83-134-116-91.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:47:52 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/index.php?source=tmp.diff <-- you meant more to go this way, frosch123 ? 20:55:36 <Alberth> void ReInitAllMapCaches() needs a doxygen comment 20:55:52 <Alberth> please add a "." at the end of evry sentence in the docs 20:56:11 <planetmaker> true, thank you :) 20:56:18 <Alberth> it is allowed to have single line comments if you like /** ... */ 20:58:36 <Alberth> whether the patch is a good direction, is a question I cannot answer :) 21:00:43 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:01:51 <planetmaker> well, I probably should introduce caching first for something we already need 21:01:55 <planetmaker> like town distance or so 21:02:51 <frosch123> planetmaker: yeah, but as "static" members 21:03:02 <frosch123> they do not use "this", but affect all 21:03:45 <frosch123> you also do not need the c-function then 21:04:37 <planetmaker> you mean the ReInitAllMapCaches() is not needed then? 21:04:43 <frosch123> yes 21:05:11 <frosch123> you can directly call TileCache::ReInitAll() then 21:05:46 <frosch123> it uses TileCache as namespace more or less 21:06:40 <planetmaker> aye 21:15:35 <Phreeze> another ufo now lol 21:15:41 <Phreeze> was just letting the game run 21:15:59 <frosch123> it lands on track, if you have only few track pieces, it will land there :) 21:16:09 <Phreeze> but every few years ? 21:16:33 <Phreeze> hey, tracks with an engine on it, are not destroyed after the xcom avenger comes ;) 21:17:37 <frosch123> well, your trains also stop in front of the ufo, instead of running into it 21:22:11 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 21:22:21 <Phreeze> they are stopped ^^ 21:28:10 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:31:29 *** Hazzard_ [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:38:18 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:38:28 * peter1138 accidentally makes this shit more complex :( 21:40:22 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:41:43 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:41:49 <Phreeze> damn winrar cant create TARs 21:42:07 <Phreeze> any way to create a tar with windows without installing additional zippers ? 21:42:34 <Taede> i use 7zip for all my compression needs 21:42:43 <frosch123> why would you want to create a tar in the first place? 21:42:54 <Taede> tar is just storing info, no compression though 21:43:00 <Phreeze> 7zip is like the best, but the interface is so fugly, that i prefer not to use it ^^ 21:43:08 <Phreeze> i KNOW what a tar is.. 21:43:28 <Phreeze> don't the newgrfs should be in a TAR ? 21:43:48 <frosch123> bananas also takes zip if you mean that 21:43:57 <Phreeze> ah ok ;) 21:44:02 <frosch123> it processes them into tars after validating the content 21:44:07 <Phreeze> i just updated my old lunames grf... 21:47:18 <frosch123> why does winrar still exist? 21:48:49 <Phreeze> cause it's better than winzip 21:49:00 <Phreeze> and has a modern looking UI 21:50:05 <glx> but 7zip is free 21:51:37 <Phreeze> free is relative on the webz ;) 21:54:29 <planetmaker> frosch123, thinking of caching of the coastal distance. Wondering what update policy should be done 21:54:49 <planetmaker> should it only be updated when actually queried. Keeping a list which says which values are current 21:55:09 <planetmaker> or always keep the cache list up to date? 21:55:43 <frosch123> i believe the most efficient way (though maybe not the easiest), is to mark an area in the cache as invalid when clearing water or when flooding 21:55:50 <frosch123> and the recompute the value when accessing 21:56:12 <frosch123> though you can recompute multiple tiles better than single ones 21:56:14 <planetmaker> ok, that was my thought, too. 21:56:28 <planetmaker> the 'not all tiles always but only when needed' 21:56:35 <planetmaker> could re-compute an area then 21:58:30 <frosch123> but well, as usual: 1. make it work, 2. make it good, 3. make it fast :) 21:58:43 <planetmaker> :D 21:59:10 <frosch123> "preempty opimisation is the root of all evil" 21:59:33 <frosch123> (i would address them all to d.e.knuth, but i have actually no idea) 21:59:43 <frosch123> s/preempty/pre-emptive/ 22:00:32 <planetmaker> hm, yeah :) 22:00:37 <planetmaker> could be 22:01:32 <planetmaker> wiki says you're right ;) 22:01:47 <planetmaker> Knuth, Donald (December 1974). "Structured Programming with go to Statements". ACM Journal Computing Surveys 6 (4): 268. CiteSeerX: 10.1.1.103.6084. 22:03:36 <frosch123> oh, it's "premature", not "preemptive" :) 22:06:32 *** Hazzard_ is now known as Hazzard 22:07:41 <Phreeze> released my CFL Trains Set to bananas, feel free to test and punish me with devastating comments ;) 22:08:09 *** idl0r [~idl0r@thor.qasl.de] has joined #openttd 22:12:55 <Phreeze> afk bed ;) 22:18:34 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.110.227] has joined #openttd 22:22:10 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-4744.vo.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:28:41 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-168-244-115.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 22:31:17 <planetmaker> he... "File too big (~104K)" from hgview for town_cmd.cpp :P 22:35:40 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/index.php?source=tmp.diff - a clear case of caching without caching ;) 22:35:46 <planetmaker> bed time now, though. Good night. 22:38:48 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:47:45 <LordAro> how regularly is git.openttd.org updated? it seems to be behind... 22:47:56 <LordAro> only by 11-28 hours though 22:49:44 <peter1138> Seems up to date for me. 22:50:43 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:51:21 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has joined #openttd 22:51:22 <LordAro> it's weird, the gitweb seems to be updated, but pulling it results in r26455 22:51:52 <peter1138> (svn r26459) -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 22:53:15 <LordAro> (svn r26455) -Change: Prompt for confirmation when deleting a vehicle group. 22:55:23 * LordAro tries a new checkout 22:57:31 <LordAro> that's better 22:57:32 <LordAro> weird 22:59:43 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 23:05:01 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:05:13 *** Devroush [~dennis@dd5765bac.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:12:58 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:30:12 *** Natio [~Natio@x1-6-e0-46-9a-98-35-7a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:32:55 <Wolf01> 'night all 23:33:04 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:51:37 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd