Log for #openttd on 21st April 2014:
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02:27:02  <Supercheese> Good Lord, this Andrex character
02:27:23  <Supercheese> I've heard less complaining from children throwing tantrums over not getting their candy
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06:05:28  <Supercheese> Google Translate actually isn't half bad going from Latin -> English
06:05:40  <Supercheese> its English -> Latin is horrible though
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06:36:19  <planetmaker> moin
06:36:53  <andythenorth> oops
06:37:51  * andythenorth went in suggestions forum
06:38:16  <andythenorth> or as I currently call it, the “confused, wrong or whining”
06:39:04  <juzza1> +entitled
06:39:34  <andythenorth> we should just have polls
06:39:40  <andythenorth> then re-title them
06:40:30  <planetmaker> we should suggest more polls?
06:40:44  <planetmaker> totally +1.
06:40:54  <planetmaker> Keeps them occupied. Thus maybe less whining :D
06:44:23  <Supercheese> eh, I doubt it
06:46:02  <planetmaker> totally +1 on your posting, Supercheese :) Though we also got a complaint about that being backseat moderation - which I dispute it being
06:46:25  <planetmaker> I consider it a favour being said
06:46:36  <Supercheese> I've been restraining myself
06:46:53  <Supercheese> :S
06:47:17  <planetmaker> favour that you said it, instead of a mod
06:47:35  <planetmaker> or he would also start whining about the evil mods, too
06:48:33  <Supercheese> the Whine is strong with him
06:49:01  <planetmaker> lol, yeah :P
06:50:02  <planetmaker> I'll send my air force, some sea hawk to feast on that:
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07:09:02  <Rubidium> okay... I just had to make a post after Supercheese ;)
07:10:54  <planetmaker> nice one! :)
07:37:02  <andythenorth> hmm
07:37:45  <andythenorth> Rubidium: I would just revert the feature
07:37:53  <andythenorth> first one to whine is the one that causes a revert
07:38:51  <andythenorth> start a new thread, pinned, in bold.
07:39:00  <andythenorth> “Names of users who caused features to be removed"
07:39:16  <andythenorth> winner is the one who causes the final feature to be removed
07:39:25  <andythenorth> inverse “First post!”
07:39:42  <Supercheese> the winning whining eh
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08:09:39  <andythenorth> I am very +1 to changing the payment
08:10:03  <andythenorth> it would make a lot more sense for payment to increase as distance decreases
08:10:05  <andythenorth> more logical
08:10:45  <andythenorth> if we allow that transporting 0 tiles is infinite payment, then just divide by number of tiles
08:10:48  <andythenorth> should work well
08:17:03  <Supercheese> Valete
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08:17:27  <Alberth> simple and easy :)
08:17:50  <andythenorth>  now we just need to program infinity
08:18:12  <Alberth> the only minor niggle is that it totally kills the need to build nice networks :(
08:18:24  <Alberth> nah, just forbid transport over 0 tiles
08:18:55  <andythenorth> if I go 1 tile, need to do infinity / 1
08:19:28  <andythenorth> don’t think it will work
08:19:33  <andythenorth> maybe we could cap infinity?
08:19:41  <andythenorth> min(infinity, some value) ?
08:19:44  <Alberth> hmm, we can use MAX_INT64 as an approximation?
08:20:07  <andythenorth> Alberth: metric or imperial MAX_INT64?
08:20:36  <Alberth> we'll add a setting for that, we don't want to have the wrong kind of infinity, dowe?
08:20:43  <Alberth> *do we
08:21:01  <andythenorth> we’ll need a setting to decide if you see the setting or not
08:21:08  <andythenorth> oh wait, we have that already :(
08:21:24  <Alberth> yep, way ahead of you :)
08:21:50  <andythenorth> it’s nice that we plan ahead
08:22:00  <Alberth> but you'd need a setting to state whether to also search the non-visible settings, perhaps
08:22:07  <andythenorth> what we need is a design
08:22:11  <andythenorth> and a project manager
08:22:14  <Alberth> what?!
08:23:05  <Alberth> but we've made such a nice random collection of functionalities
08:23:54  <Alberth> most of them are sort-of functioning within specs, even
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08:42:55  <andythenorth> I read that as ‘without specs’ for some reason
08:44:55  <andythenorth> ha
08:48:54  <Alberth> you're probably right in that :)
08:53:13  <andythenorth> so how about we make rivers unmovable?
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08:57:03  <Alberth> +1
08:57:56  <Alberth> although I'll probably get annoyed sufficiently with them to disable their generation :p
09:00:49  <Taede> rcon unpause should only ever unpause if min_active_clients is met, right?
09:02:25  <andythenorth> Alberth: magic bulldozer :P
09:02:27  <Taede> or is it different for non-dedicated servers?
09:03:22  * peter1139 ponders having another go at the landscape generator.
09:04:20  * andythenorth ponders encouraging peter1139
09:04:26  <andythenorth> how do you encourage a peter1139 ?
09:06:31  <peter1139> Beer
09:08:58  * andythenorth considers reviving pintware
09:12:17  <andythenorth> V453000: FIRS farms - default production a bit low?
09:16:21  <andythenorth> is ‘unmovable’ just a ReturnCommandCost or something
09:16:22  <andythenorth> ?
09:16:35  * andythenorth might try patching in a bit
09:16:43  <andythenorth> have to make wooden train track first :P
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09:24:19  <Alberth> object_cmd.cpp:490   if (!_cheats.magic_bulldozer.value && (spec->flags & OBJECT_FLAG_CANNOT_REMOVE) != 0) return CMD_ERROR;
09:24:31  <Alberth> looks like it :)
09:26:46  <Alberth> 496 does something similar for owned things
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09:48:38  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: both of the extra cdist modes sound good
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09:52:12  <fonsinchen> andythenorth: is a radical simplification of the cargo reduction thing
09:52:42  <andythenorth> Yeah I read that :)
09:52:51  <fonsinchen> I'm wondering if that's a good idea as you can definitely cheat it if I do it like that.
09:52:54  <andythenorth> ok, so I don’t 100% understand it, but let’s assume that’s my problem
09:52:59  <andythenorth> I understand the outcome I think
09:54:02  <fonsinchen> You can set a base cargo amount and some bonus cargo for large link graphs and you can define how large a link graph has to be to get the whole bonus.
09:54:08  <fonsinchen> That's it, basically
09:54:30  <andythenorth> so more destinations served => more cargo delivered to station
09:54:38  <andythenorth> (source station)
09:55:05  <fonsinchen> No, more stations in link graph => more cargo delivered to any station in that link graph
09:55:45  <fonsinchen> There are obvious ways to inflate the number of stations in your link graph and to temporarily connect separate link graphs to get more bonus.
09:55:59  <fonsinchen> I'd say it doesn't matter, though.
09:56:01  <andythenorth> is this all independent of station rating?
09:56:06  <fonsinchen> yes
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10:04:12  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: these modes could be per-cargo, as for current cdist?
10:04:28  <andythenorth> could != should
10:04:34  <fonsinchen> The actual new mode, waybill, yes.
10:04:41  <fonsinchen> The cargo reduction would be global.
10:04:57  <fonsinchen> I don't want to introduce 3*4 new settings
10:05:01  <andythenorth> indeed
10:05:53  <fonsinchen> What I'm actually interested in is opinions about the cheating possibility.
10:06:16  <andythenorth> I am the wrong person for that :)
10:06:19  <andythenorth> I don’t care
10:06:20  <andythenorth> at all
10:06:55  <andythenorth> I am much more interested in cargo flow between different classes of industry
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10:12:50  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: for waybill mode, is it possible to calculate capacity for cases with complex transfers?
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10:14:30  <fonsinchen> Actually for the waybill mode I'm envisioning a simpler solution, too: Just leave out the second pass of the MCF algorithm. That will effectively cap flows to capacities.
10:14:43  <fonsinchen> andythenorth: I don't quite understand your question, though.
10:15:32  <andythenorth> I can’t actually state the question any better, I’m going to ignore it, it’s probably meaningless
10:16:15  <fonsinchen> Ignore what? The question? The new mode?
10:17:19  <fonsinchen> andythenorth: Do you compile openttd yourself and are you up for a little test?
10:19:51  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: the question ;)
10:19:53  <andythenorth> and yes and yes
10:19:59  <andythenorth> afk a bit - kids
10:21:07  <fonsinchen> I'll prepare a patch for you
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10:27:49  <fonsinchen> andythenorth: Try for the waybill mode and tell me what you think
10:28:06  <fonsinchen> Ignore the link graph overlay colors for now.
10:28:48  <fonsinchen> With that patch the routing will coniuously adapt to the available capacity instead of trying to force a predetermined distribution.
10:28:59  <fonsinchen> Choose "asymmetric" as distribution mode.
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10:34:50  <andythenorth> ok ta
10:36:18  * andythenorth gives the game time to catch up
10:36:32  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: worth testing for pax as well?
10:37:00  <fonsinchen> for whatever you'd use the waybill mode
10:37:47  <fonsinchen> Except for the colors in the link graph that _is_ what I would call waybill mode.
10:39:06  <fonsinchen> andythenorth: I remember you had that funny problem with engineering supplies not being delivered to the "right" place. It shouldn't happen with that patch.
10:40:10  <andythenorth> I think I’ll leave pax on symmetric, I don’t know what data I’d gain.  I tend to connect ~every station in the pax graph
10:40:26  <andythenorth> pax seems to take care of itself - my vehicles are full, I make money
10:43:07  <fonsinchen> I find it quite hard to get all the passengers delivered in most cases ... but it your choice.
10:48:52  <andythenorth> so now I can test supply feeders
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11:31:14  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: so far, for limited cases, this mode seems to Just Work ™
11:31:28  <fonsinchen> nice to hear
11:31:40  <fonsinchen> If you have the time feel free to test something more complex
11:33:46  <andythenorth> in previous games, the hard case has been ‘spine routes’ - trunk trains with many stops, collecting and dropping to feeders
11:34:15  <andythenorth> I have seen cargo going wrong-direction, and also unloading and reloading at intermediate stations
11:34:31  <andythenorth> this was a while ago, first time I test cdist
11:35:48  <fonsinchen> We have to separate the bugs from the new features here. If you think you've found a bug please open a report. I'd like to test the new feature now. Specifically I'd like to know if it helps with cargo getting stuck because it doesn't want to go where you want it to go.
11:37:19  <andythenorth> ok ta
11:39:49  <andythenorth> bbl - kid stuff
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12:24:37  <Phreeze> i always feel drunk after family meals....don't know why
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12:47:20  <peter1139> Is it due to the pint of vodka?
12:49:27  <Phreeze> btw, opengfx link in the ingame website-button is wrong -> it misses the "/projects/" in the URL
12:49:42  <Phreeze> nope, it' sprobably due to champagne + vine + whisky
12:49:46  <Phreeze> @peter
12:50:10  <peter1139> vine?
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14:19:40  <Phreeze> wine
14:19:41  <Phreeze> ^^
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15:08:43  <andythenorth> Pikka: I am intrigued by your proposal for costs
15:08:56  <andythenorth> for example, could we have different costs for faster, more powerful engines?
15:09:03  <andythenorth> they could cost more to buy for example
15:10:08  <Phreeze> andythenorth : is it normal that i don't have any road vehicles to transport stuff from firs basic economy ? and the armored van can transport milk, i dont have an "oil" transporter
15:10:16  <Phreeze> no road vehicle for the new cargos
15:10:49  <andythenorth> DEFINE NORMAL
15:11:17  <Phreeze> it is "intended to be that way"
15:11:33  <Phreeze> i have firs + uk trainset
15:11:56  <Phreeze> do i need another grf to transport FIRS stuff by road ?
15:12:00  <andythenorth> FIRS isn’t a vehicle set
15:12:18  <andythenorth> :)
15:14:51  <ToBeFree> afaik/iirc the original vehicles can simply be refitted
15:14:56  <ToBeFree> so I'd say no
15:15:07  <ToBeFree> (what about *trying* it)
15:15:08  <ToBeFree> ^^
15:16:01  <andythenorth> Phreeze: I reckon eGRVTS is a common choice for use with FIRS
15:16:50  <Phreeze> ill add egrvtsvflfnsÚr
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15:19:43  <Pikka> andy: It's a crazy idea, but it might just work.
15:20:02  <andythenorth> might be BAD
15:20:33  <Pikka> you're right
15:21:58  <andythenorth> ok
15:22:06  <Pikka> ok?
15:22:06  <andythenorth> let’s replace it with a much more complicated, harder to explain mechanic
15:22:12  <Pikka> yes
15:22:45  <andythenorth> I don’t know which is worse
15:22:52  <andythenorth> suggestions from the inept
15:23:01  <andythenorth> or suggestions from those who understand algorithms
15:23:34  <Phreeze> lol a truck cant overtake a horse
15:23:51  <Phreeze> my "truck without egbrt grf" is no a " horse" i think, it goes 2kmh
15:23:58  <Phreeze> my new trucks cant overtake it ^^
15:23:59  <Pikka> articulated road vehicles are a bad feature, Phreeze
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15:24:08  <andythenorth> nah
15:24:12  <andythenorth> just FEATURE
15:24:15  <Phreeze> i dont know if it is, grpahically its still a balogh trucks
15:28:39  <Pikka> andy: for industrial trams, perhaps, but they're a bit silly if you're doing "normal" semi-trailers or horsedrawn carriages
15:28:49  <Pikka> can't overtake
15:29:04  <Pikka> can't use "normal" truck stations
15:29:37  <Pikka> and you only see them articulate for half a second when they go round corners, most of the time they may as well be a solid vehicle.
15:30:52  <Phreeze> is it a BAD FEATURE ?
15:31:08  <Pikka> it's a fair to middling feature
15:33:45  <Phreeze> until what date, brake vans are required ?
15:33:49  <Phreeze> @firs - andythenorth
15:34:48  <Alberth> firs is an industry set, not a train set
15:34:52  <Pikka> I don't know about FIRS, but it's probably either 1965 or 1970 in UKRS.
15:34:53  <frosch123> you cannot brake firs, it's always gung ho
15:35:14  <Pikka> required cabeese is a BAD FEATURE
15:35:57  <frosch123> only as long as we have no audio-interactive explanation of what a caboose is
15:36:06  <Alberth> at the time, it's author had a different idea about that :)
15:39:46  <andythenorth> Phreeze: FIRS requires brake vans until 1982
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15:40:05  <andythenorth> Pikka: your point about semi-trucks is
dangerous to my new truck set :(
15:40:14  <andythenorth> now I have Thoughts
15:40:41  <Pikka> whoops
15:41:25  <andythenorth> I will ignore Te Thoughts
15:41:29  <andythenorth> The *
15:41:34  <Pikka> BAD THOUGHTS
15:43:24  <andythenorth> BAD
15:46:37  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: how does the waybill dispatcher handle capacity?  Is speed a factor?
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16:01:13  <Phreeze>
16:07:46  <Phreeze> hm coal cars dont need a brake wagon
16:08:22  <Pikka> must be realism
16:08:44  <andythenorth> I thought it would be useful if FIRS controlled how trains work
16:08:50  <andythenorth> specifically brake vans
16:18:21  <fonsinchen> andythenorth: Capacity is measured, just like with the other modes.
16:19:35  <fonsinchen> Capacity will never fall below what the largest consist serving a link would transport if travelling along the link once a month.
16:21:07  <andythenorth> I have what looks like disproportionate allocation between route A (2 ships, 110t total capacity) and route B (3 trains, 144t  total capacity)
16:21:31  <fonsinchen> Link capacity is not vehicle capacity
16:21:31  <andythenorth> it’s probably correct, but would be interesting to know what factors affect the split
16:21:58  <fonsinchen> Link capacity is the amount of cargo you can transport over a link within a month.
16:22:07  <andythenorth> so throughput
16:22:28  <fonsinchen> Yes. So I guess, as the ships are very slow they produce a low throughput.
16:23:39  <andythenorth> I’ll adjust and see
16:24:19  <fonsinchen> It may be the other way around, actually: As the ships are very large their link has a higher minimum capacity.
16:25:54  <andythenorth> I think their throughput would be lower than the trains
16:26:13  <andythenorth> I should normalise it for tiles travelled, then work it out :P
16:26:44  <fonsinchen> Yes, but I need to cut it off at some point to avoid excessive link drop. That's why there is the largest consist once a month rule.
16:26:57  * andythenorth needs “ton miles / month” measure :P
16:28:07  <fonsinchen> Actually the link capacity may temporarily fall below that minimum value. It will just be restored to the minimum whenever a ship loads or the link is about to be dropped.
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16:36:07  <DanMacK> Hey all
16:40:41  <Pikka> bonsoir herr MacK
16:46:05  <DanMacK> Hey how goes it?
16:47:30  <Pikka> andy's having trouble with the brakevans in FIRS
16:52:12  <DanMacK> FIRS has brakevans?  lol
16:52:20  <Pikka> apparently
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17:42:13  <frosch123> <- hmm
17:43:09  <frosch123> i don't think it can manage that for 4096
17:45:21  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26478 /trunk/src/lang (czech.txt serbian.txt) (2014-04-21 17:45:13 UTC)
17:45:22  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> czech - 4 changes by djst
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> serbian - 2 changes by ivan_mile
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17:47:32  *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
17:50:01  <Phreeze> frosch123 still playing that game !?
17:50:09  <Phreeze> at least play the boobs version ;)
17:50:23  <frosch123> not "still", i only started now
17:50:41  <frosch123> blame eddi
17:51:24  <frosch123> but now that i know about how it works, i consider most of the results of google image search fake
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17:54:09  <__ln__>
17:55:56  <peter1139> - authchunks = malloc(sockopt_len);
17:55:58  <peter1139> - memset(authchunks, 0, sizeof(sockopt_len));
17:56:04  <peter1139> I'm glad nobody uses that software.
17:56:35  <frosch123> :)
17:56:57  <__ln__> peter1139: is that openssl?
17:57:02  <peter1139> Yes.
17:57:12  <frosch123> really?
17:57:38  <frosch123> i just wanted to make a joke about proper api usage and using calloc to prevent that
17:58:08  <peter1139> + authchunks = calloc(1, sockopt_len);
17:58:10  <peter1139> funnily enough...
17:59:44  <Phreeze> that facebook pic is nice ;)
17:59:51  <Phreeze> saw it on "i fucking love science"-FBpage
18:01:13  <frosch123> hmm, how does a search for "openssl bashing" not result in anything
18:02:19  <peter1139>
18:04:33  <frosch123> sounds like ottd
18:04:54  <frosch123> "Short answer - send diffs, expect criticism - not because you suck but because all diffs get criticism. If you can't handle it and improve, don't post."
18:05:21  <peter1139> Yeah
18:09:38  <Phreeze> need one way signs for rails, without being them a signal (aka: point where the train stops)
18:09:55  <Phreeze> (or waypoints...)
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18:20:40  <__ln__>
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18:24:11  <Wolf01> hello o/
18:24:36  <Phreeze> hi
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18:31:12  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26479 trunk/src/stringfilter.cpp (2014-04-21 18:31:06 UTC)
18:31:13  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: use MallocT instead of malloc
18:33:20  <__ln__> .... openttd goes openssl?
18:33:49  <frosch123> no, we are switching to cvs
18:35:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26480 trunk/src/stringfilter.cpp (2014-04-21 18:35:12 UTC)
18:35:18  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26479): forgot to remove a *
18:38:49  <planetmaker> good evening
18:39:22  <frosch123> hola pm
18:39:54  <__ln__> solamente inglés
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18:48:25  <Phreeze> playa del ingles
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18:53:01  <henrikhodne> Hey, I'm running OpenTTD 1.4.0 on OS X and I don't seem to be able to build any buses or trucks anymore, even though there are some listed in "Available Road Vehicles". Any ideas?
18:53:54  <Phreeze> did you build normal roads ?
18:53:57  <Phreeze> ROAD depot  ?
18:54:23  <glx> looks like the usual click on the main list but not on depot list
19:03:31  <henrikhodne> Yeah, it's a road depot. I built buses in it eariler in the game.
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19:07:12  <Brumi> is the list empty when you click 'buy vehicles' from the road depot?
19:07:19  <henrikhodne> Yes, it is.
19:07:32  <Wolf01> sounds like your vehicles become obsolete, which year it is?
19:07:40  <henrikhodne> 2117
19:08:05  <Brumi> what vehicles show up in the 'available road vehicles' window?
19:08:15  <Brumi> tell a few examples
19:08:35  <henrikhodne> Oh, duh, they are all Trams -_-
19:08:45  <henrikhodne> The window was too narrow, so I didn't realise.
19:08:48  <Brumi> that's what I was suspecting
19:09:03  <Brumi> you can bring back the old vehicle
19:09:04  <Brumi> s
19:09:17  <Brumi> if you go to the advanced settings
19:09:29  <Brumi> in game, not from the main menu
19:09:54  <Brumi> then set Vehicles / Vehicles never expire to 'on'
19:10:05  <Brumi> then open the console
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19:10:20  <Brumi> by pressing the button left to the '1' button on your keyboard
19:10:27  <Brumi> and type 'resetenginges'
19:10:41  <Brumi> resetengines*
19:11:09  <henrikhodne> Awesome, thanks.
19:11:10  <Brumi> that way you'll have all vehicles available again, no matter how old they are
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19:18:26  <henrikhodne> I also seem to have messed up my signaling or something. I have a train that goes up to a junction, stops and backs up to the closest signal.
19:20:15  <henrikhodne> Ah, looks like it's working again.
19:20:23  <frosch123> missing electification?
19:21:24  <henrikhodne> Ahhh, yes.
19:28:07  <andythenorth> FFS
19:28:18  <andythenorth> if you don’t want people stopping vehicles on your infrastructure
19:28:26  <andythenorth> then don’t apply infrastructure sharing patch
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19:28:55  <Taede> also dont build roads
19:30:45  <andythenorth> seems completely stupid, complaining about patches that aren’t part of trunk anyway
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19:34:34  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: in the case discussed earlier, reducing the train capacity has caused the amount assigned for that route to reduce
19:34:42  <andythenorth> the ship amount remains static
19:34:59  <andythenorth> expected result?
19:35:05  <fonsinchen> I guess so.
19:35:16  <andythenorth> so if I want more assigned to the ship route, add ships?
19:35:22  <andythenorth> even though 2 are waiting, empty?
19:35:23  <fonsinchen> The waybill dispatchment is supposed to adapt to your capacities
19:35:38  <andythenorth> emergent behaviour :)
19:35:55  <fonsinchen> Where did the cargo go if it didn't take the trains?
19:36:22  <fonsinchen> There is a certain delay between planning and execution ...
19:36:42  <andythenorth> I can’t relate the amount produced by industry with the amount planned by station
19:37:01  <fonsinchen> Well, before more cargo was taking the trains, right?
19:37:05  <andythenorth> yes
19:37:12  <andythenorth> now the total amount of cargo is reduced
19:37:18  <andythenorth> I’ll ffwd a bit
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19:37:25  <fonsinchen> If still the same amount of cargo is being produced it must be going somewhere else
19:38:12  <andythenorth> “Monthly supply” - the unit is same as cargo unit?
19:38:23  <andythenorth> looks same
19:38:30  <fonsinchen> yes
19:38:43  <andythenorth> ok so I have 80 crates supplied / month
19:38:52  <andythenorth> how far ahead does ‘planned’ look?
19:39:05  <fonsinchen> That's not much for two ships of the usual capacity.
19:39:14  <fonsinchen> How big are the ships?
19:39:28  <andythenorth> 55t each
19:39:29  <fonsinchen> It looks until next recalculation of link graph.
19:40:20  <andythenorth> I’ll add more ships and see what it does
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19:40:31  <andythenorth> hmm
19:40:36  <andythenorth> the capacity is measured, not calculated?
19:40:56  <fonsinchen> Then if only the ships serve the route they have to wait 20 days each until they fill up - in case they get all 80 crates
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19:41:44  <fonsinchen> Well, OK, that's not counting how long it takes them to travel, which usually is significant for ships
19:41:44  <andythenorth> I’ll stop the trains and see what the calculation does
19:41:57  <andythenorth> I’m wondering if the travel time means capacity = min
19:42:05  <fonsinchen> What does the result look like? Where is the cargo actually going?
19:42:39  <fonsinchen> As long as they're both only waiting for cargo, the capacity will be estimated at 55t per month
19:42:50  <fonsinchen> that means the trains will get the remaining 25t, yes.
19:43:04  <fonsinchen> (at least)
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19:45:30  <fonsinchen> In general the link capacity is measured. However, if not enough samples can be collected for whatever reason it's estimated as the cargo capacity of the largest consist serving the link.
19:48:59  <andythenorth> so the ratio is currently 4:41 for ships:trains
19:49:17  <andythenorth> I have tried more ships, and fewer trains :)
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19:52:39  <fonsinchen> Can you upload the savegame somewhere?
19:53:07  <andythenorth> yup
19:53:16  <andythenorth> just replacing the ships with trains to see what that does
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19:54:07  <andythenorth> nothing noticeable
19:55:19  <fonsinchen> It could also be that the train route is just shorter
19:55:42  <fonsinchen> Given enough capacity on both sides it will prefer shorter routes
19:56:48  <andythenorth> fonsinchen:
19:56:53  <andythenorth> if I forgot any grfs, ping me
19:57:07  <andythenorth> Puddleton Port is the interesting station
19:57:15  <fonsinchen> Thank you. I'll check it right away
19:58:12  <andythenorth> could be EAndythenorth
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20:02:09  <fonsinchen> Well, the sandbank is closer than the pit
20:02:28  <fonsinchen> But the difference in amounts is pretty large for that
20:04:20  <andythenorth> some setting?
20:04:26  <andythenorth> I did check I applied the patch :P
20:04:32  <andythenorth> that was my first concern :P
20:04:58  <fonsinchen> The settings look OK.
20:06:09  <fonsinchen> That's quite interesting. I'll give it a closer examination
20:08:33  * andythenorth always breaks things ;)
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20:17:09  <fonsinchen> It already fails when calculating the demand. It's 40:712 there (before scaling)
20:19:03  <andythenorth> is that based on tiles?
20:20:21  <fonsinchen> ES is cargo id 24, right?
20:20:30  * andythenorth looks
20:20:54  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: yes
20:24:45  <fonsinchen> Ah, tile demands!
20:25:48  <andythenorth> dredging site is single tile
20:27:49  <fonsinchen> The other one has 17 tiles
20:27:55  <fonsinchen> That's the difference
20:28:43  <andythenorth> I am -1 to tile-based demands :)
20:28:45  <andythenorth> for industries
20:28:49  <andythenorth> might make sense for houses
20:30:36  <fonsinchen> I see. That's a separate fix, though. Maybe ignore it for now.
20:31:23  <andythenorth> so the dispatcher is probably correct, just the demand is wrong
20:31:40  <fonsinchen> yes
20:31:45  <andythenorth> when I adjusted capacity on the trains, the dispatcher did the right thing afaict
20:32:06  <fonsinchen> The dispatcher will only ignore the demands if it cannot satisfy them
20:32:31  <fonsinchen> If you have enough capacity everywhere it behaves just like asymmetric distribution.
20:34:53  <andythenorth> I’ll keep playing
20:35:02  <Phreeze> my openttd is weird...when i move the screen with the right mousebutton, it sometimes accelerates like a fool
20:41:51  <frosch123> night
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21:10:43  <Phreeze> tram invasion !
21:10:47  <Phreeze> thx to cargodist^^
21:19:54  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: transfer orders are unhelpful with cdist?
21:20:04  <andythenorth> not required?
21:20:23  <fonsinchen> You can use them, cargodist will try to figure out what to do.
21:20:47  <fonsinchen> They aren't required, of course.
21:21:18  <fonsinchen> There are some cases where you want some sort of "leave empty" order to suppress the creation of the following link
21:21:36  <andythenorth> thanks
21:22:00  <andythenorth> turned on cdist existing game
removing outdated orders
21:31:26  <Phreeze> cdist is cool
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22:31:06  <Wolf01> 'night
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