Log for #openttd on 30th April 2014:
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01:22:42  <Twyster> I've got a problem saving a scenario. "File not writable" and I've tried running the game as an administrator and saving it to other locations. Just got the computer back from the shop yesterday so that might have something to do with it.
01:38:55  <Eddi|zuHause> probably something to do with directory permissions
01:39:08  <Eddi|zuHause> can you try a USB drive or something?
01:40:41  <Twyster> It's running off of a USB external drive, but the default save directory is in My Documents.
01:41:37  <Twyster> The first place I tried to save it to to fix the problem was on the external drive the game was running off of.
01:44:42  <Eddi|zuHause> weird...
01:44:57  <Eddi|zuHause> usually when this happens people try to write to the program files directory or something
01:45:32  <Eddi|zuHause> but can you check the directory permissions anyway?
01:46:57  <Eddi|zuHause> it could in theory also be an antivirus or similar protection mechanism
01:47:00  <Twyster> Everything except special permissions is checked on the default (My Documents) directory. Checking the external drive now...
01:47:30  <Eddi|zuHause> but i have nmver heard of that actually happening
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01:49:39  <Twyster> Yeah, all permissions except special permissions are enabled. Maybe the Nightly has a bug?
01:50:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i find that unlikely
01:50:28  <Eddi|zuHause> but you can try another version without closing your current one
01:50:42  <Eddi|zuHause> just download the zip and unpack it
01:53:21  <Twyster> I just tried the last stable release. No problems. Something went wrong.
01:53:30  <Twyster> With the Nightly I mean.
01:54:38  <Eddi|zuHause> can you find out which exact nightly starts to go wrong?
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01:56:21  <Twyster> I was using r26540. I'll go back through the revisions one by one after I check the change logs for likely culprits.
01:57:10  <Eddi|zuHause> try also using that nightly installed on other locations? in case it's really like an antivirus blocking the writing
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02:01:07  <Twyster> r26540 and the Last Stable were installed in the same folder (different subfolders for each of course). I don't think it's Bitdefender.
02:03:01  <Twyster> I just swapped the locations of the installation. Put r26540 into a temporary folder and put the Last Stable into the folder that r26540 was in.
02:03:18  <Twyster> The stable didn't have a problem saving a scenario.
02:05:30  <Twyster> r26539 had a change where "Fix [FS#5994]: [Windows] Crash due to assuming (formerly) _video_driver is being set before the operating system has time to perform the first "paint" callback". The shop I got my computer fixed at did a video driver adjustment. But...
02:06:13  <Twyster> r26526 had a change in the handling of scenario generation. "Remove: Ability to set map generation seed via GUI. If you really need it, use the console."
02:06:40  <Twyster> I'm going to test the revisions preceeding those two first.
02:06:43  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing of that should matter
02:10:20  <Twyster> Where are the revision downloads? I think there's nothing for it but to go back one-by-one and test them all.
02:11:41  <Eddi|zuHause> you can get the nightlies at
02:12:07  <Eddi|zuHause> but if you want individual revisions you need to check out the source and compile
02:15:50  <Twyster> I guess I'll be playing the stable release for now... Thanks for your help.
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04:41:42  <peter1139> hurr
04:43:17  <Supercheese> durr
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06:00:59  <planetmaker> moin
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07:35:21  <supermop> hi
07:36:18  <supermop> just had the pleasure of carrying a roll of carpet on a train, then a bus
07:36:35  <supermop> plus around 1000m of walking
07:43:09  <__ln___> i assume 'm' stands for meters and not miles here
07:44:43  <supermop> i don't i would have bothered with the bus or train if i was walking that far already!
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09:23:21  <Flygon> supermop: I presume you've seen the Chasers clip where they try to take furnature onto PT
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09:36:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i've transported a refrigerator by train
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09:41:38  <__ln___> i heard of someone who transported an electric sauna stove in airplane... as hand luggage.
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09:48:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea how large a sauna stone is
09:48:44  <Eddi|zuHause> *stove
09:49:30  <peter1139> A stove is an enclosed space in which fuel is burned to provide heating
09:49:39  <peter1139> Burning that electricity yo
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09:50:57  <__ln___> it must be the correct term, it's from wikipedia
09:52:09  <__ln___> anyway, small electric ones are something around 60×50×30 cm or so.
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10:42:28  <supermop> no idea what chasers is, Flygon
10:42:49  <supermop> i've carried lots of furniture on the subway in new york
10:42:51  <Flygon> The Chasers War on Everything?
10:43:08  <supermop> and a stack of steel stools on two trams here
10:43:29  <Flygon> Carrying Washing Machines is aperantly very common on the Metro here
10:43:30  <supermop> a small table on the 86 as well
10:44:19  <Flygon> ...wait, how do yoy carry a table onto a Tram?
10:44:22  <Flygon> Low floor?
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10:44:39  <supermop> nope, 86 is all B-class
10:45:08  <Flygon> Far out
10:45:18  <Flygon> Cop flak from the driver?
10:45:23  <supermop> in new york, a ladder, various chairs, cabinetry, lots of shelving,
10:45:25  <Flygon> Then again, you did say small
10:45:45  <supermop> dont know, boarded in the center door
10:46:09  <Flygon> Ah, right, I forgot that's easier to get into
10:46:10  <supermop> bus driver tonight was a bit sceptical looking
10:46:36  <supermop> and then i accidentally pulled the cord for the stop too soon
10:46:40  <Flygon> Ah, a guy tried to take a home entertainment system (sans TV) onto the bus I was on...
10:46:54  <Flygon> Since it was peak hour, and a high floor bus
10:46:58  <Flygon> It was a no sell
10:47:50  <supermop> and had to get off there, but then traffic was such that i was keeping pace with the bus as i walked with my carpet, getting a weirder look from the driver for that than when i got on in the first place
10:47:57  <Samu> how do I keep someone's password  on their company when I save the game?
10:48:28  <Samu> i had to go to sleep, but today, I loaded that save to continue
10:48:37  <Samu> companies had no password :(
10:49:22  <supermop> no idea Samu
10:49:27  <supermop> sorry
10:50:07  <Samu> had the inconvenient of a random guy coming in and ruining a company
10:50:10  <Samu> :(
10:51:28  <Flygon> Ouch
10:51:30  <Flygon> >_<
10:51:31  <Flygon> Sorry
10:52:01  <Samu> i re-loaded the save game to recover, but some time was lost
10:57:05  <V453000> Samu: passwords are saved on server, not in savegame
10:57:12  <V453000> so if you reload a save on server, pws get lost
10:58:31  <Samu> i was hosting
10:59:20  <Samu> how would I recover the passwords then?
11:00:08  <planetmaker> there are no passwords after reload
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11:02:27  <Samu> hmm, how do I protect a company after re-load?
11:02:33  <Samu> is it possible?
11:03:55  <supermop> could you set a password for it yourself, then if the legitimate owner asks for it, you give it to them?
11:05:03  <planetmaker> Samu, set passwords after loading a map
11:05:14  <planetmaker> just like supermop says
11:08:27  <Samu> done
11:08:40  <Samu> not optimal, but it can work
11:09:34  <Samu> strange bug
11:09:45  <planetmaker> it's not a bug
11:10:14  <Samu> i can click to buy 25% shares of company 2, but not of company 4, while being a spectator
11:10:19  <Samu> sorry, it's something else
11:10:26  <Samu> company 1 is an AI
11:10:33  <Samu> can't buy his shares
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11:11:02  <planetmaker> companies need to have a certain age before you can trade their shares
11:11:02  <Samu> can't buy shares anyway
11:11:31  <Samu> i am a spectator, and the buy / sell 25% shares is not greyed out
11:12:10  <Samu> what age do they need?
11:12:22  <planetmaker> dunno. check wiki
11:12:25  <planetmaker> a few years
11:12:59  <Samu> im posting a screenshot, it will speak for itself
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11:14:29  <Samu>
11:15:14  <Samu> Pink is the AI - company 1
11:19:46  <V453000> not like the shares are anyhow impactful
11:29:14  <planetmaker> what openttd version, samu?
11:29:22  <Samu> 1.4.0
11:31:53  <supermop> these listings claim to versand weltweit, but i somehow don't believe that they will sent to australia, nor that aus customs will let the item through
11:32:47  <pthagnar> the face generator really does make some funny looking people
11:33:01  <planetmaker> Samu, that should be fixed in trunk and is scheduled for backport to 1.4.1
11:33:49  <planetmaker> you could try with a nightly to check
11:34:45  <planetmaker> supermop, why not? Of course you might need to pay duties. Or they fraudulently send it as 'gift'
11:35:34  <planetmaker> and if it's "weltweit", parcels from Germany (or Austria or Switzerland) are not that suspicious, are they?
11:38:12  <Samu> ok, thanks
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11:40:48  <supermop> everything entering australia seems to be suspicious
11:41:27  <supermop> amazon will ship shampoo to me here, but not a case for my nexus, nor any of the headphones i want to buy
11:41:45  <supermop> nor the bluetooth speak i want
11:42:15  <Xaroth|Work> duh
11:42:21  <Xaroth|Work> nexus cases don't kill people
11:42:23  <Xaroth|Work> neither do headphones
11:42:24  <Samu> looks like im missing files
11:42:31  <Xaroth|Work> the australians only want things that can kill you in an instant
11:42:38  <Xaroth|Work> like crocodiles, and venomous snakes
11:42:49  <Xaroth|Work> your headphones are too soft for them
11:42:53  <planetmaker> two-step poison for the win
11:42:54  <Samu> downloaded trunk into a zip file, must I replace the original install?
11:43:00  <supermop> all of which are available from various Australian sellers and stores at anywhere from 150-300% of what they cost is other 'expensive' countries...
11:43:18  <Xaroth|Work> that's due to the added lethality of the items :)
11:43:22  <Samu> can i rename openttd.exe to something different?
11:43:24  <planetmaker> Samu, no, just unpack in a separate dir
11:43:31  <supermop> i feel like a 50 year old heizlufter should be acceptably dangerous...
11:43:34  <Samu> I did, it doesn't run
11:43:53  <Samu> missing files from original tycoon CD, and a corrupt opensfx.grf
11:43:56  <planetmaker> unpack the *whole* zip in a separate dir
11:44:59  <Samu> opensfx0.2.3/
11:45:49  <Samu> TRG1R.GRF, other similar named files are missing
11:46:34  <Samu> i need to copy these files over to the extracted folder
11:46:55  <planetmaker> no. You should copy them to the *shared* documents folder. Readme section 4
11:47:50  <Samu> C:\Users\Ricardo\Documents\OpenTTD - this one?
11:48:09  <planetmaker> obviously there are sub-folders
11:48:44  <Samu> im figuring out. When I installed 1.4.0, it must have put those files in program files
11:49:12  <planetmaker> that's bit of a bad place. Maybe the installer did so, dunno
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11:49:55  <Samu> just found them
11:50:01  <Samu> the installer put them here: C:\Program Files\OpenTTD\baseset\opensfx
11:50:26  <Wolf01> hello
11:50:58  <Samu> and the TRGxx.GRF files were installed here C:\Program Files\OpenTTD\baseset
11:51:31  <Samu> so I just copy the baseset folder into shared documents baseset?
11:51:36  <Samu> it's empty btw
11:52:45  <planetmaker> just copy everything in C:\Program Files\OpenTTD to C:\Users\Ricardo\Documents\OpenTTD
11:52:51  <planetmaker> including every frigging directory
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11:57:20  <Samu> it works
11:57:32  <Samu> i only had to copy what was inside baseset
11:59:19  <Samu> i got put right into the AI company
11:59:33  <planetmaker> yes, mind my advise when you encounter the next problem with "I don't find X but the other install finds it"
11:59:33  <Samu> i can build
12:00:12  <planetmaker> and pay me 10€ when you come with a question whose answer is "copy..." ;)
12:00:27  <Samu> ok
12:00:29  <Samu> lol
12:01:43  <Samu> well, the shares thing is now fixed, but I'm put right into company 1, which is owned by an AI
12:01:44  <Samu> and I can build on it
12:02:15  <planetmaker> part of the answer might cost 10€ :P
12:04:38  <Samu> it also fixes that bug I reported yesterday or before
12:04:48  <Samu> but company 1 in this case is an AI
12:04:50  <Samu> :(
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12:23:55  <Samu> nevermind, it didn't fix the bug I reported
12:24:08  <Samu>
12:25:16  <Samu> i have an idea, when hosting, just host as a spectator, no companies
12:25:46  <Samu> when restarting, it should behave better
12:26:12  <Samu> it restarts hosting, no companies again
12:26:22  <Samu> but I'm no programmer
12:26:36  <Samu> could be wrong
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12:44:19  <Samu> there's yet another bug!
12:45:01  <Samu> when an AI starts a company, it comes with a lock icon next to his password
12:45:20  <Samu> if I save the game and load it back, the lock disappears
12:45:44  <Samu> not sure how this will affect autoclean, but I assume the worst
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12:54:37  <Samu> grr, i can't reproduce the bug
12:54:45  <Samu> must have been the effect of "restart" in console
12:59:43  <Samu> question: Can AIs set passwords for their companies?
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13:17:20  <Samu> strange bug finding today, now with save game
13:17:52  <Samu> it was supposed to save as PAXLink, *random_date-1951*
13:18:13  <Samu> it saved as another name
13:18:43  <Samu> On Your Way Transport, *random-date-1982*
13:19:12  <Samu> that was an AI name from another save game
13:19:26  <Samu> at least the savegame file itself was saved properly
13:19:41  <Samu> only the name was not
13:20:22  <Eddi|zuHause> did you click on the savegame and it changed its name so it would overwrite it?
13:25:56  <Samu> nope
13:26:21  <Samu> the other save didn't even have that name
13:26:37  <Samu> it was AK Transport
13:30:02  <Samu> omg
13:30:15  <Samu> it ate a savegame after all
13:30:25  <Samu> i swear I did not click on it
13:30:41  <Samu> it was saying PAXLink when saving
13:30:52  <Samu> it overwritten On Your Way Transport instead
13:30:57  <Samu> bah....
13:32:57  <Samu> that was my backup save of my server
13:35:17  <Samu> I'm searching my whole computer for a PAXLink file
13:36:22  <Samu> PAXLink-14.tar
13:36:22  <Samu> bah, that's not it
13:36:45  <Samu> there is no other PAXLink files
13:37:23  <Samu> no PAXLink save game at all :/
14:05:48  <Samu> wow, im on a roll today (sorry, another bug)
14:06:33  <Eddi|zuHause> sorry, but "inability to use the program correctly" is not a bug
14:06:43  <Samu> when running in window mode and right click dragging the screen to scroll the mouse
14:06:49  <Samu> oops, to scroll the screen
14:07:03  <Samu> and then another window popup in the meanwhile
14:07:17  <Samu> the game keeps dragging the window
14:07:26  <Samu> and I can't put my mosue cursor over it
14:07:42  <Samu> can't stop dragging
14:07:57  <planetmaker> that bug exists somewhere in the bug database
14:08:54  <Samu> i alt-tabbed back into the openttd window fine, though still moving the screen as if the right button wasn't released
14:09:07  <Samu> right clicked to release and it fixed it
14:09:32  <Samu> Eddi|zuHause: the save game problem is real
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14:09:43  <andythenorth> FIRS is remarkably unpopular
14:09:45  <Samu> i did save again just to make sure
14:10:02  <Samu> it was saying it was going to save as PAXLink once more
14:10:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't doubt you have a problem, but i do doubt it's a bug
14:10:14  <Samu> it saved as On Your Way Transport
14:11:01  <Samu> and that was the name of another savegame, it's gone now
14:11:02  <Samu> it ate it
14:12:00  <Samu> didn't even ask if it was going to overwrite
14:12:08  <Samu> just saved right away
14:12:22  <Eddi|zuHause> did it ever do that?
14:12:30  <Samu> yes
14:12:51  <Samu> it must be related with restart command in console, I was toying with that
14:12:58  <Samu> i will try to recreate the steps
14:14:08  <andythenorth> 22k downloads for FIRS vs. 256k for ECS and 43k for TAI Industries
14:16:15  <Rubidium> last update was 1 week vs 2 years vs 6 months ago?
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14:20:21  <planetmaker> @calc 256 / 104
14:20:21  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 2.46153846154
14:20:30  <planetmaker> so, 10x the ECS downloads :P
14:20:48  <planetmaker> @calc 43/24
14:20:48  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 1.79166666667
14:20:51  <planetmaker> same with TAI
14:20:58  <Rubidium> planetmaker: I was pulling numbers out of thin air
14:21:01  <planetmaker> bad math is bad, though
14:22:12  <Samu> could it be because of different openttd versions?
14:22:29  <Samu> the save was 1.4.0, loading on r24xxx something
14:22:55  <Samu> loaded an old save
14:23:00  <Samu> then restart on console
14:23:06  <Samu> then save game
14:23:06  <Samu> could that be it?
14:23:51  <planetmaker> by pure speculation it similarily could be caused by the butterfly in china
14:24:18  <Samu> r26540, sorry
14:24:39  <Samu> r26540 loaded a 1.4.0, then restart, then save game
14:24:51  <Samu> some stuff happening inbetween like autoclean, joining spectators, damn i must find what caused it
14:27:47  <Samu> question: Can AIs set passwords for their companies?
14:27:56  <Samu> that needed answer
14:28:32  <planetmaker> <-- find out
14:32:52  <Samu> no?
14:35:14  <Eddi|zuHause> people shouln't be able to join AI companies
14:36:30  <Samu> i have an AI company with a lock, I suspect it was due to autocleaning a human passworded company
14:36:51  <Samu> an AI took its slot, and also the password
14:37:00  *** andythenorth [~Andy@] has left #openttd []
14:38:04  <Samu> hence my question
14:38:12  <Samu> can AIs set passwords for their companies?
14:38:50  <Eddi|zuHause> you "suspect" too much, instead of giving reproducible steps
14:39:01  <Samu> easy
14:39:10  <Samu> start a multiplayer game
14:39:23  <Samu> move yourself to spectator
14:39:33  <Samu> wait for an AI to begin
14:39:56  <Samu> forgot to say, I have the default password button pressed
14:40:33  <Samu> wait for your company to auto-clean and some AI to take its spot
14:40:43  <Samu> autocleaning no vehicles
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14:43:37  <Samu> about the save game bug, I almost reproduced it, now I'm getting a different behaviour, an error
14:44:13  <Samu> when I'm saving, an error says, Game Save Failed. File not writable
14:44:42  <Samu> it is attempting to save as AIAI, 1951-03-11
14:47:30  <Samu> tried with another name, still the same error
14:47:47  <Samu> can't save game at all
14:47:55  <Samu> now due to error
14:49:06  <Samu> gonna try to reproduce the savegame again, and if I get the same behaviour, I'm creating a bug report on flyspray
14:50:52  *** Hazzard [] has joined #openttd
14:59:48  <Samu> well well
15:00:01  <Samu> it happens in r26540 and not on 1.4.0
15:00:08  <Samu> shall I report ?
15:06:21  <Eddi|zuHause> may be related to this one:
15:07:59  <Samu> it's running as admin
15:08:04  <Samu> cannot save game
15:08:20  <Samu> that's the error I get
15:08:48  <Samu> gonna try to save somewhere else
15:09:23  <Samu> can't save anywhere
15:09:27  <Samu> c:
15:09:29  <Samu> d:
15:12:34  <Samu> damn, this is much easier to reproduce than I thougt
15:12:47  <Samu> start a game, try to save
15:12:49  <Samu> error
15:12:57  <Samu> or
15:13:05  <Samu> load a game
15:13:12  <Samu> save the game
15:13:27  <Samu> will overwrite the loaded game instead
15:13:42  <Samu> no matter the name it shows
15:14:22  <Samu> this is for r26540
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15:50:10  <Samu>
15:57:53  *** tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
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16:31:38  <Samu> the AI with a lock icon (company passworded):
16:41:24  *** Phreeze [] has joined #openttd
16:41:46  <Phreeze> yo
16:41:57  <Samu> hi
16:43:16  <Phreeze> does anybody know sth about lego mindstorms ? :D
16:45:12  <peter1139> sth!
16:45:53  <Phreeze> something :)
16:47:10  <Samu> this just in, another bug, I am so sorry
16:47:50  <Samu> this one is related to Pathfinder for ships, must check which one it is
16:48:06  <Samu> it's YAPF
16:48:30  <Samu> the ship is trying to service at a ship depot
16:48:42  <Samu> to do that, it must turn back
16:49:09  <Samu> when it goes the opposite direction, his order switches to going again to a dock, turning back again
16:49:10  <Samu> it's on a loop
16:49:12  <Samu> doing this
16:49:25  <Samu> back and forth, neither going to depot, nor dock
16:53:05  *** lofejndif [] has joined #openttd
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16:57:41  <Samu> come to Vulturis citybuilder server if you want to take a look, it's Ship 7
16:58:25  <Samu>
17:02:29  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
17:02:32  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
17:12:34  *** TrueBrain [] has quit [Quit: reboot]
17:14:02  <Xaroth|Work> Samu: you can easily fix that by forcing the ship to do something else :|
17:19:49  <Samu> done
17:20:19  <Samu> this path finder is actually good
17:21:06  <Samu> needs a little bit of tweaking when servicing, but for the rest, it really takes the correct paths
17:23:14  *** NGC982 [] has joined #openttd
17:23:21  <NGC982> Good evening.
17:23:31  <NGC982> I just upgraded my laptops to Windows 8.
17:23:38  <NGC982> Also, OpenTTD to version 1.4.0.
17:23:44  * Phreeze hands a medal over to NGC982
17:23:56  <Samu> you mean windblows 8 as I name it
17:24:05  <NGC982> For some reason, i keep loosing connection to any server i try to connect to.
17:24:25  <Samu> must be windblows firewall?
17:24:41  <NGC982> A firewall setting that let's me play "a bit"?
17:25:18  <Samu> then.... wireless?
17:25:23  <NGC982> An OpenTTD related issue is not probable, but i just need to know if anyone of you recognice this, so i can take it off my list.
17:25:28  <NGC982> Yes, wireless.
17:25:56  <Samu> ok, try restarting modem/windblows
17:26:18  <Samu> i have the same issue, and it's not just for openttd
17:26:26  <Samu> i know for sure it's my wireless
17:27:27  <glx> crappy wireless router ;)
17:27:52  <NGC982> Absolutely not.
17:28:11  <NGC982> I can measure latency, transfer, over head and similar.
17:28:13  <NGC982> Not an issue.
17:28:33  <NGC982> I do think it's w8 that's hasseling with application allowance on my wifi connection.
17:28:53  <NGC982> max_lag_time 32000 did not make any difference. :(
17:29:46  <Samu> my ping isn't constant to my router
17:30:05  <Samu> and sometimes it doesn't ping, i get general error
17:30:15  <Samu> that's when I disconnect from games, internet
17:30:18  <Samu> then it comes back
17:30:22  <Samu> like nothing happened
17:30:54  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
17:31:32  <NGC982> Hey, what on earth.
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17:45:43  <Phreeze> NGC982 solved ?
17:45:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26545 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2014-04-30 17:45:35 UTC)
17:45:46  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:47  <DorpsGek> catalan - 1 changes by juanjo
17:45:48  <DorpsGek> croatian - 27 changes by VoyagerOne
17:45:49  <DorpsGek> czech - 4 changes by djst
17:45:50  <DorpsGek> korean - 8 changes by telk5093
17:56:28  <NGC982> Phreeze: No, it did not.
17:57:44  <NGC982> Phreeze: But yes, i now know it is not OpenTTD related.
17:58:50  <Phreeze> torrent runnin ?
17:58:59  <Phreeze> or other stuff that establishes a lot of connections
17:59:39  <Samu> me? I'm using onedrive to sync folders
17:59:53  <NGC982> No, nothing like that. I removed every other process in my router simply to try this.
18:00:12  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
18:00:43  <Samu> i should be getting 300 Mbps when transferring to another computer, I get way less
18:01:08  <Phreeze> 300mbit ?
18:01:12  <Phreeze> wifi ?
18:01:18  <Samu> the other is cabled, so it's 1 Gbps
18:01:29  <Phreeze> thats only theorie
18:01:31  <Rubidium> so, what are you getting?
18:01:35  <Samu> it's a wireless network card
18:01:35  <Phreeze> -ie +y
18:01:43  <Samu> it's some TPLink model
18:01:46  <Markk> The HDD is the weak spot.
18:02:16  <NGC982> Markk: Hi.
18:06:10  <Samu> ok, it's copying files
18:06:28  <Samu> averaging 20 Mbps
18:06:38  <Samu> should be 300
18:06:38  <Samu> meh
18:07:32  <Rubidium> or is it saying MBps?
18:08:01  <Phreeze> MB = megabyte   Mb = megabit
18:08:06  <Phreeze> 1byte = 8bit
18:08:13  <Samu> it's Mbps I/O
18:08:16  <Rubidium> because, at least in Windows, it's showing MB/s, not Mb/s
18:08:19  <Phreeze> nvm, have to go
18:08:27  *** Phreeze [] has quit []
18:08:57  <Rubidium> alternatively, your wifi is on a crowded channel with lots of interference
18:09:31  <Samu> not crowded at all
18:09:41  <Samu> there's barely anyone with internet where I live
18:09:56  <Rubidium> doesn't mean they aren't on the same channel you use
18:10:21  <Samu> how do I check that?
18:10:24  <Samu> in the router page?
18:10:34  <peter1139> WiFi never gets anywhere near the full stated speed.
18:11:08  <Rubidium> you'd need some tools to see what channels the nearby wireless network are on. I wouldn't know how that's called on Windows though
18:12:18  <Samu> channel 6, 9, 11 are being used by... APs?
18:12:51  <Samu> it is listing 5 nearby networks
18:12:58  <Samu> they're using those 3 channels
18:13:35  <Samu> I'm currently on channel 6
18:16:36  <Samu> windows isn't detecting any other wi-fi except mine
18:16:42  <Samu> there's really no one here
18:17:16  <Samu> with 3 bars only
18:17:17  <Samu> t.t
18:17:22  <Samu> poor signal
18:22:20  <Rubidium> not being able to detect doesn't mean it doesn't disrupt the signals of your network
18:29:53  <Samu> wait, im photoshoping my connection
18:31:20  <Samu> the modem detects less APs nearby now
18:31:20  <Samu>
18:31:54  *** SylvieLorxu [] has joined #openttd
18:31:58  <Samu> do you know how to interpret that?
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19:05:02  *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
19:05:34  <Samu> hi orudeg
19:06:16  <Samu> do you remember me?
19:07:25  <Samu> orudge:
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19:44:13  <DanMacK1> hey all
19:44:37  <DanMacK1> @seen Andythenorth
19:44:37  <DorpsGek> DanMacK1: Andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 5 hours, 30 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <andythenorth> 22k downloads for FIRS vs. 256k for ECS and 43k for TAI Industries
19:47:13  <Samu> it takes 53 seconds CPU time to generate a 4096x4096 map
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19:48:30  <Samu> buf AMD
19:49:13  <__ln___> 53 seconds CPU time or wall clock time?
19:49:25  <Samu> cpu time in task manager
19:49:41  <__ln___> ok
19:49:57  *** luaduck [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:49:58  <Samu> now generating using zBase
19:50:02  <Samu> must be fun...
19:52:24  <Samu> 54 seconds
19:54:34  <Samu> takes 6% cpu usage just to run the game
19:55:49  <Samu> generating map takes 13% cpu usage
19:56:09  <Samu> 12.5%, it's single-threaded, right?
19:56:11  <Samu> 8 cores
19:57:03  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
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19:59:42  <andythenorth> o/
19:59:56  <andythenorth> DanMacK: hi hi
20:00:30  <glx> Samu: there's a thread for the progressbar IIRC
20:01:04  <andythenorth> we’ll just not discuss the war-themed newgrfs, right? :)
20:01:09  <frosch123> Samu: enable all ecs vectors, set high industry density, and wait 3 hours for a 4kx4k map
20:01:32  <glx> and have no industries on the map at the end ;)
20:01:40  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
20:01:57  <Samu> ECS?
20:02:11  <frosch123> some newgrf
20:02:53  *** tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
20:02:56  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
20:03:34  *** DanMacK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:04:55  *** DanMacK1 is now known as DanMacK
20:05:11  <Samu> 3 hours?
20:05:38  <frosch123> try it :)
20:06:07  <Samu> i filter by ECS and then Add all those listed?
20:06:11  <Samu> any parameters?
20:06:12  *** Pereba [~UserNick@] has joined #openttd
20:06:15  <frosch123> no
20:06:23  <Samu> ok
20:06:30  <Superuser> I wish there was a newgrf that made ottd scoring actually decent
20:06:34  <Superuser> it's the only weak part of the game
20:06:45  <frosch123> Superuser: it's called a "game script"
20:06:53  <Superuser> explain
20:06:57  <frosch123> google yourself
20:07:09  <Samu> what about sea level?
20:07:18  <Samu> how much?
20:07:36  <Superuser> give me an example of a good one that e.g. makes buses actually useful, doesn't make anyone with airplanes instantly win (servers turning off that functionality is NOT a solution)
20:08:40  *** tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:08:55  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
20:09:01  <frosch123> win with airplanes instantly?
20:09:15  <frosch123> just enable infra maintenance
20:09:40  <frosch123> increase the base cost, watch them bankrupt
20:09:51  *** montalvo [] has joined #openttd
20:09:54  <frosch123> it's very easy to make aircraft unviable
20:10:29  <Superuser> aircraft, sure
20:10:49  <Superuser> but the fact is that by default, buses are not just unviable, they mean you can't compete at all if you even have a bus
20:11:11  <Superuser> due to the way scoring works in the game, you need a minimum income and buses do not deliver that
20:11:17  <Samu> make terrain super rough
20:11:23  <Samu> mountainous
20:11:28  <frosch123> maybe that's the idea of the score :)
20:11:29  <Samu> town very hostil
20:11:47  <frosch123> the score creator hated busses
20:11:48  <Samu> and generate map with trees enabled
20:12:06  <Samu> town noise enable
20:12:16  <andythenorth> Supercheese: scoring?  wtf is that?
20:13:57  <frosch123> Superuser: anyway, original score is meant to be played with inflation
20:14:06  <Supercheese> ??
20:14:17  <Supercheese> oh tabcomplete
20:14:25  <andythenorth> sorry :P
20:14:31  <frosch123> you achieve the minimum income score by reaching 2050 and not making a loss
20:15:07  <frosch123> but who plays with the original score anyway?
20:15:27  <Samu> the bowl?
20:15:51  <Samu> it should scale somehow
20:16:06  <frosch123> don't try to solve the wrong problem :)
20:16:32  <Samu> map is still generating
20:16:34  <frosch123> give gs control over the highscore and enjoy the variety of solutions
20:17:34  <Superuser> hmm... so are you suggesting that the standard scoring system is uncommon? FYI, I only plan on private servers with a select group of friends so I'm unaware of mods
20:17:57  <Superuser> if that's thet case, what would you suggest
20:18:28  <frosch123> no idea, i am unable to take competitive gaming serious in ottd
20:18:51  <frosch123> use a game script and add your own scoring
20:19:12  <Samu> map generated
20:19:19  <frosch123> the default scoring is only for people who do not know the game
20:19:20  <Samu> took 10m06s cpu time
20:19:23  <andythenorth> what is the scoring system?
20:19:27  <andythenorth> there’s a scoring system?
20:19:29  <frosch123> but that is likely the case for every type of scoring
20:20:17  <frosch123> andythenorth: it's a challenge. people try to design scoring systems hoping that other people are not clever enough to cheat it
20:20:27  <Superuser> openttd is a serious game
20:20:29  <frosch123> maybe the solution is in using random scoring
20:20:30  <Superuser>
20:20:35  <frosch123> cheating random can be hard
20:20:46  <Samu> it did generate industries
20:20:48  <Superuser> serious games need serious scoring
20:20:53  <Samu> you were saying it would not
20:21:07  <frosch123> only 10 minutes?
20:21:12  <Samu> yea
20:21:23  <frosch123> i would have expected it to be way longer
20:21:25  <andythenorth> we do take the game very seriously
20:21:29  <andythenorth> very seriously indeed
20:21:45  <Samu> should generate faster on intel cpus though
20:21:57  <SylvieLorxu> Haha, these airplanes, just flying around because they can't land, so funny
20:22:03  <SylvieLorxu> Err, yeah, seriously
20:22:25  <andythenorth> the game is definitely not just a glorified trainset
20:22:36  <frosch123> SylvieLorxu: usually people fly around because they enjoy flying, not because they cannot land
20:22:57  <frosch123> but "superman's inability to land" is an interesting twist
20:23:01  <NGC982> Bah.
20:23:16  <NGC982> I still haven't resolved this "Your computer took too long" issue.
20:23:53  <NGC982> "Your computer is too slow"
20:23:54  <NGC982> *
20:23:56  <Samu> what's your internet speed?
20:24:11  <Xaroth|Work> have you tried turning it off and on again?
20:24:27  <NGC982> Samu: WAN is gigabit, Wifi is n-based.
20:24:29  <NGC982> Xaroth|Work: Yes.
20:24:53  <Samu> it goes by the speed of the slowest
20:25:28  <NGC982> Wifi.
20:26:08  <NGC982> There is something with the wifi that is not correct.
20:26:11  <NGC982> But i cannot isolate it.
20:26:51  <Samu> oh, speaking of which
20:26:56  <NGC982> For some reason, this happend after i upgraded from Windows 7 to 8.
20:27:03  <Samu> that's mine -
20:27:17  <NGC982> Ok.
20:27:26  <NGC982> Let's see if i can analyse the wifi in the e3000.
20:28:02  <Samu> internet is 30 Mbps, Wi-Fi is 300 Mbps, but it's averaging ~20 only :(
20:28:26  <Xaroth|Work> rated connection and actual speeds are two different figures
20:28:30  <Samu> i dont have windows 8, can't help there
20:29:16  <Wolf01> 'night
20:29:22  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
20:32:09  <NGC982> The router tells me it's at 100%.
20:32:21  <NGC982> The router tells me it's at 100% signal quality to the MAC address.*
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20:35:06  <Samu> tp-link?
20:36:09  <Samu> I didn't like the program, it was always losing focus on what I was doing
20:36:19  <Samu> uninstalled it, only kept the drivers
20:36:37  <Samu> bloatware... i hate it
20:37:24  <NGC982> By web download, the wifi manages 4-6Mb/s download speed.
20:38:26  <Samu> megabit?
20:38:43  <Samu> impressive!
20:38:53  <NGC982> It's not, since OpenTTD does not manage to.
20:39:07  <Samu> megabyte or megabit?
20:39:17  <NGC982> Megabits.
20:39:20  <NGC982> Mb.
20:39:38  <Samu> that's still enough imo
20:39:49  <Samu> I was on a 128 kbps a few months ago
20:39:51  <NGC982> Yes, that should not be an issue
20:39:56  <Samu> could only join small maps
20:40:01  <NGC982> The issue is that OpenTTD does not utilize it, for some reason
20:40:08  <Samu> large maps was always kicking me off in the middle of join
20:41:20  <NGC982> I hate everything right now. Imgur refuses to upload my screenshot.
20:41:42  <Samu> format c:, reinstall
20:41:51  <Samu> windows 7 in this case
20:42:11  <Samu> do you have more than 1 network adapter?
20:42:19  <Samu> maybe it's using the wrong one
20:42:26  *** SylvieLorxu [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:42:30  <NGC982> One router, one wifi adapter per laptop.
20:42:33  <Samu> like, ethernet vs wireless?
20:43:01  <Samu> then I dunno
20:43:43  <Samu> do you know how to rach network settings on windows 8?
20:43:49  <Samu> reach
20:43:59  <Samu> tell it to create the network map
20:44:32  <Samu> or tell it to solve connectivity issues
20:45:46  <NGC982>
20:45:47  <NGC982> There we go
20:46:03  <NGC982> The first bit is a file downloaded via http.
20:46:13  <NGC982> The second small bit is connecting to a OpenTTD server.
20:47:22  <Samu> hmm, can you reach this:
20:47:30  <NGC982> Yes.
20:47:45  <Samu> ok, click the last one
20:47:54  <Samu> troubleshoting problems
20:48:01  <Samu> then internet connection
20:48:07  <Samu> and hope for the best
20:48:12  <NGC982> That never works.
20:48:16  <NGC982> And it did not work now.
20:48:21  <NGC982> Thanks for the tip, tho. :-)
20:48:55  <Samu> what about the windows firewall?
20:48:58  <Samu> is it allowing openttd.exe?
20:49:05  <Samu> or the router firewall settings
20:49:20  <NGC982> The router allows it
20:49:30  <NGC982> Ill take a look in the Windows firewall.
20:49:54  <__ln___> *I'll, *look at
20:50:13  <__ln___> you're welcome
20:50:52  <NGC982> StÀng nÀbben.
20:50:57  <NGC982> ;-)
20:51:37  <Samu> what
20:51:43  <Samu> C:\program files\openttd\openttd.exe for me
20:51:47  *** Superuser [~superuser@2a02:e00:fffe:fbee::b5a2:2197] has quit [Quit: El Psy Congroo]
20:52:21  <Samu> select domestic and public, since I have no idea which one is trouble
20:52:24  *** Superuser [~superuser@2a02:e00:fffe:fbee::b5a2:2197] has joined #openttd
20:52:38  <Samu> home/work, sorry
20:54:03  <Samu> this is where you need to reach:
20:54:12  <Samu> oops,
20:54:47  <Samu> OpenTTD should be listed there, and allowed on the boxes
20:57:45  * Xaroth|Work shudders
20:57:53  <Xaroth|Work> the fact you used bing cost you cool points
20:57:56  <Xaroth|Work> like, seriously
20:57:59  <Xaroth|Work> lots of cool points
20:58:12  <Superuser> ^
20:58:22  <Samu> it comes with IE11
20:58:34  <Samu> can't be bother to change it
20:58:35  <Xaroth|Work> the fact you used IE11 cost you cool points
20:58:38  <Xaroth|Work> like, seriously
20:58:39  <Xaroth|Work> lots of cool points
20:59:31  <ST2> saw that coming ^^ (any IE = the perfect browser to download any other :P)
20:59:49  <Samu> this IRC is a webchat too, running on IE
21:00:03  <Samu>
21:00:14  <LordAro> ew
21:00:21  <Xaroth|Work> next you'll be telling me you're running your server as root :|
21:00:22  <frosch123> given that the number of bugs always grows with the square of the version number... maybe ie11 is not that bad compared to other browsers :p
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21:01:04  <Xaroth|Work> frosch123: I had always suspected it to be more of a sine wave
21:01:53  <frosch123> no, sine waves are used to determine whether a programming language shall assign a meaning to $ @ # and stuff
21:02:03  <Xaroth|Work> AH, right
21:03:42  <frosch123> <- found it
21:03:51  <Xaroth|Work> damn, you were faster :P
21:04:14  <Samu> IE is based on Mozilla isn't it?
21:04:19  <Xaroth|Work> lol no
21:04:20  <Taede> o_O
21:04:21  <andythenorth> where is jquery in that curve?
21:04:32  <frosch123> though i recently relearned that in basic stuff ends with $ instead of starting with it
21:05:46  <frosch123> i wonder what's the curve for shift+3 crashing a program
21:05:56  <Xaroth|Work> gheh
21:06:33  <frosch123> shift+3 = § = control code with dos codepage = trouble
21:07:07  <Samu> some websites tells me I'm running IE / Mozilla, how do they detect it?
21:07:14  <Samu> or why they say Mozilla?
21:07:28  <frosch123> lol, ie still says mozilla?
21:07:41  <Xaroth|Work> browsers send a user-agent header with each reques
21:07:47  <Xaroth|Work> so servers know what they are talking to
21:07:50  <frosch123> Samu: mozilla was the name of the first popular web browser
21:07:59  <frosch123> ms did not get that it was a product name, and copied it
21:08:11  <frosch123> thinking it was part of the protocol or something
21:09:09  <Samu> so this ain't a firefox clone?
21:09:19  <frosch123> try 20 years earlier
21:09:20  <Samu> doesn't matter, it works fine for me
21:09:23  <Rubidium> it's merely saying "compatible with mozilla rendering engine 5.0"
21:09:46  <Rubidium> well, or some other mozilla rendering engine that's slightly older
21:09:49  <frosch123> hmm, though firefox is also quite old meanwhile...
21:10:14  <Rubidium> <- spot the oddity in there ;)
21:10:14  <NGC982> It has resolved itself.
21:10:18  <NGC982> Gosh darn HP drivers.
21:11:12  <Samu> HP drivers?
21:11:14  <frosch123> ah, firefox is already 10
21:11:15  <Xaroth|Work> it's about time that browsers cut down on the crap in the user agent string
21:11:34  <Samu> your printer?
21:11:46  <Rubidium> Xaroth|Work: it's only going to get worse :(
21:12:08  <Rubidium> and occasionally it's just spoofed anyhow
21:12:21  <Samu> a wireless printer or something? what was it?
21:12:21  <Xaroth|Work> yeh, but it could actually be 'useful' :P
21:12:33  <Rubidium> <- looks spoofed to me ;)
21:14:31  <frosch123> they tell the server about the security settings?
21:14:49  <frosch123> is that useful for advertising?
21:15:10  <frosch123> this user used no security -> offer some spam ware
21:15:20  <frosch123> this user used max security -> offer bloat virus scanner
21:16:06  <frosch123> Rubidium: does the typo in WIndows NT have a meaning?
21:16:18  <NGC982> Samu: Yes, when upgrading to Window 8, the Windows Update downloaded it's own version of the original HP (Windows 7) driver for the laptop.
21:16:18  <Samu>
21:16:31  <Rubidium> frosch123: well that, and the NT 9.0 tells me it's a spoofed one
21:16:32  <NGC982> Samu: Uninstalling it and installing it directly from HP resolved my OpenTTD issue.
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21:19:52  <Samu> just install the driver, HP software is really bloatware, honestly
21:20:01  <Samu> so uneccessary
21:20:38  <Samu> if they should ship a blu-ray with their printer, I bet they would
21:26:30  <frosch123> printers? blu-ray? physical media?
21:26:36  <frosch123> what century are you living in?
21:27:29  <Samu> :( the "driver" is not 40 GB
21:27:29  <Samu> be happy
21:27:54  <peter1139> I like physical media...
21:28:16  <peter1139> For music anyway. I'm not much of a film watcher.
21:29:02  <Samu> one day, file storage will be a thing from the past
21:29:23  <Samu> it's stored on some random server HDD, not on your computer
21:29:40  <Xaroth|Work> HDD?
21:29:44  <Xaroth|Work> what century are you living in?
21:29:52  <Samu> servers use HDDs or not?
21:30:00  <Xaroth|Work> HDDs are -so- 2012
21:30:09  <Samu> those cloud things
21:30:16  <Xaroth|Work> all dem giddy moving parts, they break and stuffs
21:31:00  <Samu> western digital released a 5 TB HDD
21:31:04  <__ln___> the worst part is that HDDs do not have a touch screen
21:31:11  <Samu> this year
21:31:19  <Xaroth|Work> Samu: 6TB disks have been released as well
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21:31:29  <Samu> t.t
21:31:29  <Xaroth|Work> but what's more interesting, are the 1TB SSDs.
21:31:31  <peter1139> That's a lot of data to lose when it dies.
21:32:00  <Xaroth|Work> peter1139: that's what raid is for!
21:32:08  <peter1139> O_o
21:32:16  <Samu> HP however is building some storage device
21:32:27  <Samu> can store petabytes of stuff
21:32:28  <frosch123> oh, a "device" :)
21:32:33  <frosch123> magics!
21:32:34  <Xaroth|Work> 'device', mhm
21:32:46  <Samu> brb let me search that
21:32:58  <Xaroth|Work> seriously though, with 4TB disks, PB-sized devices are already obtainable
21:33:00  <peter1139> Not sure what the general proportion of SSD or HDD on servers is at the moment.
21:33:02  <frosch123> maybe it's powered with the souls of dead printers?
21:33:03  <Xaroth|Work> you just need a bunch of sas expanders :|
21:33:09  <peter1139> I know that there isn't a single SSD where I work.
21:33:21  <Xaroth|Work> peter1139: at this point, mostly HDD, but SSDs are in the uprise
21:33:40  <Xaroth|Work> lots of vendors are moving to 'flash-accelerated' storage
21:33:43  <peter1139> Server SSDs are also way more expensive than consumer SSDs.
21:33:56  <Xaroth|Work> where you use a bunch of slowass HDDs, and have a 'smarty system' that caches the frequently used stuff on SSD
21:34:21  <Xaroth|Work> (or simply put L2arc on ZFS...)
21:34:44  <Xaroth|Work> but database storage systems tend to favour SSDs these days
21:35:08  <peter1139> heh, 800GB for £700
21:35:12  <peter1139> Not too bad now.
21:35:18  <Xaroth|Work> nope
21:35:39  <peter1139> Wonder what the write lifetime is on these things though.
21:35:55  <peter1139> I get the impression servers are made to last a couple of years max.
21:36:20  <Xaroth|Work> ask 20 IT guys, they'll give you 40 different answers to that :P
21:36:36  <peter1139> My servers last over a decade.
21:36:47  <Xaroth|Work> realisticly, in most cases it's "long enough"
21:37:56  <peter1139> "Secure business information with hard drive RAID to make copies of data automatically."
21:37:59  <peter1139> o_O
21:38:29  <Xaroth|Work> wait what
21:39:09  <Xaroth|Work> that's probably the same idiot that makes people think that snapshots are by default valid backup sollutions
21:39:22  <Rubidium> they are...
21:39:31  <Rubidium> just use a polaroid and make a snapshot every hour
21:39:40  <Xaroth|Work> mhm
21:39:43  <Samu> can't find it
21:40:11  <Xaroth|Work> Samu: a storage system with a few SAS expanders can easily go >1PB
21:40:16  <Samu> it's about some discovery for HDDs, they can make it very dense
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21:40:39  <Rubidium> anyhow... backups are only for competent sysadmins
21:40:43  <Samu> they were estimating petabytes in a similar 3.5'
21:40:44  <Samu> enclosure
21:40:53  <frosch123> Rubidium: what's that?
21:41:21  <Rubidium> frosch123: exactly ;)
21:42:58  <Samu> one day in the very distant future
21:43:11  <Samu> our own body will be used to store data
21:43:18  <Xaroth|Work> wait what
21:43:23  <Xaroth|Work> what century do you live in?
21:43:26  <frosch123> you still have hope for a brain?
21:43:35  <Rubidium> your body is way to inefficient to store data
21:44:01  <Samu> things tend to become smaller
21:44:24  <Samu> just inject a "workstation" into your body
21:44:27  <Xaroth|Work> are we still talking abotu said 'brain' ?
21:44:30  <Samu> and go on with your life
21:44:39  <Samu> yeh
21:44:39  <Samu> lol
21:44:48  <Xaroth|Work> ah, right
21:45:04  <Samu> but really, that's what I think of the future
21:45:49  <Samu> instead of a peacemaker, it's a workstation, somewhere inside your body
21:46:02  <Xaroth|Work> you should check out shadowrun, tbqfh
21:46:26  <Samu> what is it?
21:46:27  <frosch123> yeah, women will implant workstations into their hands
21:46:30  <frosch123> so they never get cold
21:46:54  <frosch123> men will be useless
21:47:45  <Samu> "you become the cloud"
21:47:53  <Samu> or part of it
21:48:00  <frosch123> ah yeah, the body is mostly water
21:48:06  <frosch123> i guess that is a good start to become a cloud
21:48:36  <Eddi|zuHause> but a cloud is mostly not-water?
21:48:41  <Samu> as long as you live, the servers will never run out of power
21:48:58  <Samu> damn, im dreaming too much
21:49:05  <frosch123> ah, you mean, to loose weight you just need to implant more servers?
21:49:32  <frosch123> burgerking will be the main datacenter?
21:49:51  <Eddi|zuHause> but the human body only produces like 300W power
21:50:21  <frosch123> notebooks run with 12w or something?
21:50:50  <Eddi|zuHause> my PSU can do 600W
21:52:43  <Samu> the new talk is wearable electronics
21:53:02  <Samu> what comes next is implanted electronics I bet
21:53:07  <frosch123> yeah, it's cheaper than plastics surgery
21:53:09  <Eddi|zuHause> human (hourly) power is about half a horsepower
21:53:54  <Eddi|zuHause> the permanent power is somewhat lower
21:54:07  <frosch123> Samu: btw. implanted electronics is not new
21:54:49  <Samu> after implanted electronics, it's injected electronics :p lol
21:54:56  <Eddi|zuHause> (permanent power is things like heartbeat and keeping body temperature)
21:55:04  <frosch123> start with pacemakers, continue with modern hearing aid devices, ...
21:55:14  <Eddi|zuHause> (i think it's in the order of 160W)
21:55:59  <frosch123> Samu: yeah, dogs already have injected electronics to identify them
21:56:14  <Samu> :(
21:56:20  <frosch123> some jail in some police state will likely also have them already
21:56:41  <frosch123> maybe you have been shot with an rfid chip somewhen?
21:56:42  <Eddi|zuHause> with "police state" you mean USA?
21:57:13  <frosch123> Samu: injected stuff is bollocks, you cannot remove/replace that stuff in a meaningful way
21:57:41  <frosch123> so you would only do that if it shall not be removed ever, resp. is not worth replacement/removal
21:58:12  <Samu> or if it's not on humans, it's on rats or some other kind of specie
21:58:13  <Samu> but I see
21:58:16  <Eddi|zuHause> we briefly considered a chip for our cats so the cat door will only open for them and not other cats
21:59:03  <Samu> not practical
21:59:14  <Eddi|zuHause> but they kept dragging in mice and birds, so we permanently closed the door from the outside
22:02:26  <Samu> ah, I read what Shadowrun is
22:02:30  <Samu> a mmorg
22:02:51  <Samu> not that kind of story
22:03:32  <Samu> I was imagining the body being used to feed power to the whole "workstation"
22:03:40  <frosch123> shadowrun is the classic german pen-and-paper-roleplaying game in a cyberpunk world
22:03:55  *** KWKdesign [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
22:03:55  <frosch123> oh, it's not german :p
22:03:59  <Samu> it won't change your body
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22:04:59  <Samu>
22:06:45  <frosch123> yeah, i think the computer game is based on that
22:06:53  <frosch123> at least the same people are involved :p
22:07:01  <frosch123>
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22:10:59  <Samu> ... and after injected workstations, the very wind force will be sufficient to power atomic-sized "workstations", they can literally fly
22:11:07  <Samu> hmm... ok im gonna shut up
22:26:50  <frosch123> night
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23:10:12  <LordAro> gah, i've made gdb error
23:10:16  <LordAro> *again*
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