Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:05:31 <Wolf01> 'night all 00:05:40 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:08:15 *** LSky [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 00:09:44 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:c105:762b:7ab0:9578] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:19 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 00:42:38 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:44:00 *** andreaa [~andrea@93.55.155.243] has joined #openttd 00:51:55 *** andreaa [~andrea@93.55.155.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:40 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 01:01:30 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 01:05:21 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:c2:8ff:fec1:936b] has joined #openttd 01:14:27 *** eLbot [~eLbot@ec2-54-193-108-235.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #openttd 01:15:38 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:43 *** Haube [~michi@37-4-140-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:40 <Samu> what is the maximum days timetable can register? 01:27:54 <Samu> autofill on timetable just got 20 days, that's not right 01:28:05 <Samu> it took way way longer 01:34:35 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:36:00 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:36:03 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 01:42:14 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 01:42:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A666.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 01:54:03 *** JoeBrown [~kami@cpc5-smal11-2-0-cust727.perr.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 02:10:25 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.40.220.185] has quit [Quit: I'm out for now, but you are invited to try AdiIRC: www.adiirc.com enjoy it!] 02:17:14 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 02:20:00 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p57A09169.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 02:22:19 *** abchirk_ [~abchirk@p57A083EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:23:24 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-169-2-218.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:24:39 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Quit: That's all folks!] 03:01:21 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:01:42 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 03:14:09 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:47:13 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:47:14 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:52:51 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:52:52 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD42F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67B09.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:10:16 *** _2rB [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 05:10:16 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:29:31 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:33:55 *** _2rB [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:34:25 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 05:54:33 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:55:35 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 05:57:00 <planetmaker> moin 06:00:07 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:21:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B995.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:24:21 <Flygon> Menta 06:29:07 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@66.238-27-211.dynamic.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:51:25 <George> do I understand it right, that var e$ and E8 do not work in OTTD? 06:51:46 <George> (E4) 06:52:25 <planetmaker> for what? Trains? 06:53:29 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 06:53:32 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 06:55:28 <planetmaker> o/ 06:55:42 <planetmaker> Alberth, thanks for helping Owen yesterday :) 06:55:54 <Alberth> moin 06:56:12 <Alberth> yw :) 06:56:30 <Alberth> not sure what most buttons mean, but this one I could manage :) 06:56:41 <planetmaker> :) 06:56:52 <planetmaker> George, can you remind me what those vars are supposed to do? 06:56:56 <George> planetmaker: yes 06:57:07 <George> power and weight 06:58:07 <George> created task FS#6004 06:58:14 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58:24 <George> planetmaker: is there any workaround? 06:58:34 *** lskynl [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:58:42 <planetmaker> you usually know your power as you set it either via property or callback? 06:58:50 <George> No 06:59:18 <George> two engines provide P=P1+P2 06:59:48 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 07:01:16 <George> Making every engine know the power of other ingisnes in the set woud be hard, making the same in case several sets work togather - impossibl 07:01:57 <lskynl> morning 07:02:04 <planetmaker> in reality one engine doesn't know the other in a consist either. They simply all pull the train 07:02:10 <planetmaker> that's how it also works in OpenTTD 07:02:37 <planetmaker> (I still don't understand the problem) 07:03:18 <George> I can't check current power and weight of the consist in the code 07:03:38 <George> Currently I'm working on running costs for xUSSR set 07:03:55 <Flygon> Hmmmm 07:03:58 <Flygon> That'd be interesting 07:04:04 <George> RC depends on the amount of weight per power 07:04:06 <Flygon> Cheaper per-loco operation with Diesel MUs 07:04:15 <Flygon> But more expensive per-loco for each Steam loco coupled 07:04:34 <Flygon> Could force real stratergy for 1800s Steam games 07:04:49 <George> so, in case there is only 1 engine I need only the consist weight (RC higher when consist weights more) 07:05:12 <planetmaker> George, but the totall weight and the total power is taken into account in train operation 07:05:25 <George> in case 2 or more engines I also need power to divide weight between engines 07:05:46 <George> planetmaker: And what? 07:06:00 <George> That does not affect RC calculation 07:06:15 <planetmaker> I still don't understand what problem you try to solve. What's RC calculation? 07:06:29 <George> running cost factor callback 07:06:49 <George> I need to calculate value for CB 07:07:08 <George> And it depends on current speed, weight, power 07:07:41 <George> and I CAN'T get current weight and power - tha's the problem I have 07:14:12 <planetmaker> I'm sure those variables can create extremely nice infinite loops when used in callbacks 07:14:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B995.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:19 <planetmaker> yet, reading train properties can make some programming much easier... 07:23:29 *** _2rB [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 07:23:29 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:09 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 07:27:09 *** _2rB [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:33:20 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 07:51:16 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:52:50 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 08:01:55 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:32 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 08:04:37 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009086.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 08:07:27 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:07:43 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 08:10:59 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:13:27 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 08:15:20 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 08:15:53 *** Devroush [~dennis@76.169-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #openttd 08:17:20 *** Devroush [~dennis@76.169-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [] 08:18:28 *** modicum [~marsipanW@106.188.59.197] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:18:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6BC79.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 08:23:06 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 08:24:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A666.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:29:16 *** _2rB [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 08:29:23 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:46:12 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-11053.vo.lu] has joined #openttd 08:46:13 *** _2rB [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:46:56 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 08:48:59 <Phreeze> hi 08:50:26 <Alberth> moin 08:55:56 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:57:37 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 09:00:46 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 09:03:12 <Samu> hi 09:07:52 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:48 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 09:12:39 *** lskynl [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:14:20 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:15:30 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 09:15:49 *** lskynl [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:16:28 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 09:18:10 *** SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@dslb-094-220-171-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 09:22:13 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has joined #openttd 09:23:50 *** lskynl [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:24:02 *** lskynl [lskynl@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:25:02 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:42 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 09:39:50 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:39:50 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:47 *** LA [~LA@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 09:44:32 *** LA is now known as Madis 09:44:41 <Madis> good morning 09:49:13 <Phreeze> hi 09:50:35 *** fjb is now known as Guest8478 09:50:37 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:57:55 *** Guest8478 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:05:00 <George> frosch123: While OTTD actually support var F4, - and does it support F8? And if no - what var contains weight? 10:10:59 <Samu> finally finished what I was doing yesterday. This http://i.imgur.com/3WeC6YE.png and this http://imgur.com/oaWTokq 10:11:51 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host-92-24-25-152.ppp.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 10:13:01 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:13:02 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:13:03 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 10:16:16 <Samu> resuming my research: original acceleration is equivalent to realistic acceleration with x2 weight and 10% steepness in most cases 10:16:25 *** _2rB [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 10:16:41 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:44 <Samu> achievement complete! that was the goal of this research 10:18:41 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:19:33 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:22:34 <Samu> oh ya, i didn't show the empty results... realistic acceleration favours it quite too much, no matter the combination of settings 10:23:13 <Samu> other than that, realistic acceleration is quite customizeable 10:24:47 <Pinkbeast> Some of the early diesels seem to lose out quite badly there. 10:27:57 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:28:00 <Wolf01> hi hi 10:28:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-179-32-158.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:32:36 <frosch123> George: what kind of graphics depend on weight and power? 10:33:27 <frosch123> just in case you want to use those vars in callback 36 to change other vehicle stats: it will not work. recursive property definitions do not work 10:35:59 <Alberth> hi hi 10:40:40 <Samu> empty load, going downhill mostly: http://i.imgur.com/jgJfTDH.png and http://i.imgur.com/XvKznL7.png 10:41:01 <Samu> i figured I should show these graphs too for better judgement 10:41:57 <Samu> oops, i missed the x3 10% 10:43:26 <Samu> there: http://i.imgur.com/hAX68XP.png 10:43:40 <valhallasw> Samu: try a 2D heatmap to plot it (locos on one axis, model on second axis, value as color) 10:46:18 <Samu> sorry, i dont know what you mean, i can give you the excel file though 10:47:33 <Samu> bings 2D heatmap 10:48:24 <valhallasw> Samu: sure! pastebin it somewhere, or mail it (valhallasw at gmail) and I'll see what I can do :-) 10:48:30 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host-92-24-25-152.ppp.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:51:40 <Samu> http://1drv.ms/1iK4V3E 10:51:54 <Samu> think you can download it from there 10:52:23 <Samu> be careful with kirby paul, it was getting some biiiig results, I excluded it then 10:52:36 *** _2rB [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:39 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:52:43 <Samu> autofill was timing it incorrectly 10:53:56 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host-92-24-25-152.ppp.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 10:54:06 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 10:57:12 *** LA [~LA@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 10:57:17 *** LA [~LA@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has quit [] 11:01:17 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:19 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 11:03:13 *** Madis [~LA@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:05:55 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:08:47 <andythenorth> o/ 11:10:52 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:10:52 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:45 *** montalvo_ [~montalvo@host-2-99-61-203.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 11:13:04 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:13:22 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:13:27 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:14:12 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host-92-24-25-152.ppp.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:14:44 * valhallasw fires up IPython Notebook 11:17:10 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:18:01 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 11:20:15 *** Haube [~michi@37-4-140-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 11:32:55 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:35:41 <valhallasw> Samu: http://nbviewer.ipython.org/urls/dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32584450/Samu.ipynb?create=1 11:38:05 <Phreeze> is there a tutorial for "advanced" NML with python etc ? 11:39:24 <Phreeze> i know basic scripting from my university days and some vba..but...yeah... 11:40:27 <LordAro> http://insanecoding.blogspot.ro/2014/04/gcc-49-diagnostics.html 11:42:45 *** Haube [~michi@37-4-140-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:47:22 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:47:22 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48:38 *** Haube [~michi@37-4-140-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 11:48:58 <Alberth> Phreeze: just read the tutorial at docs.python.org (for your version of Python) 11:49:29 <Alberth> other than that, you just have to produce text output exactly as you'd have to enter manually 11:49:45 <Alberth> formatting of the nml is of course less important 11:51:08 <Phreeze> stupid tortoise is not downloading src...gna 11:51:21 <Phreeze> it's "running" with 17 files and stays at 17... 11:52:28 * Alberth gives Phreeze the command-line version of the vcs 11:53:49 <Phreeze> ATARI 2600 vcs ? 11:53:58 <Phreeze> had one as a child 11:54:07 <Phreeze> or more: my parents played with it, before it was cool :> 11:58:36 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:58:50 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:04:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-179-32-158.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:13:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-179-32-158.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:15:42 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:17:16 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 12:20:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-179-32-158.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:22:01 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 12:22:33 <Samu> valhallasw: hey, thanks 12:23:12 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:32 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 12:25:24 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 12:29:39 *** SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@dslb-094-220-171-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:35 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 12:33:44 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:35:14 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 12:36:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-179-32-158.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:38:09 <andythenorth> Phreeze: I wrote a tutorial for basic python templating 12:38:14 <andythenorth> in forums 12:38:41 <andythenorth> Phreeze: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=58390 12:40:52 <Xaroth|Work> tbh, all it really needs is a good library to do all that :P 12:43:13 <andythenorth> nobody wrote one 12:43:26 <andythenorth> and nobody was interested in even trying to define a spec 12:43:41 <Xaroth|Work> how unpythonic of everybody :P 12:43:58 <andythenorth> feel free 12:44:02 <Xaroth|Work> hah 12:44:07 <Xaroth|Work> i have enough libraries to work on 12:44:18 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:29 <Xaroth|Work> like libzfs-python 12:45:12 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 12:45:35 <Samu> lost connection :( 12:46:14 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has quit [] 12:46:15 <andythenorth> Xaroth|Work: what would the library do? 12:46:28 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 12:46:28 <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: libzfs or lib..grf? 12:46:41 <andythenorth> lib.grf 12:46:44 <andythenorth> or lib.nml 12:47:05 *** Twofish [~IRC@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:47:39 <Xaroth|Work> take python objects, turn it into nml (or even better, directly to grf) 12:48:26 *** Twofish [~IRC@46.228.54.111] has joined #openttd 12:50:09 <andythenorth> I think it would be hard to do well. If itâs too clever it will only serve limited needs. If itâs too sparse, newbies wonât be able to use it. 12:50:22 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:36 * andythenorth speaking as someone who has written one library for pixel generation, and chose deliberately not to do that for nml 12:51:05 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 12:59:46 <frosch123> Xaroth|Work: better output to nml, that increases the chance that someone may even remotely consider to debug it 12:59:49 <Alberth> just split nml in a frontend and a backend :p 13:15:08 <Samu> my internet today :( 13:17:13 <andythenorth> if I was doing a library, Iâd provide classes for each vehicle type 13:17:26 <andythenorth> with all the standard properties etc 13:17:40 <andythenorth> and then provide some way for authors to subclass from those for customisations 13:17:46 <andythenorth> but itâs all hot air tbh 13:19:58 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C358B.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:20:54 <Samu> when you press ' you write b instead 13:20:57 <Samu> funny 13:27:44 <Samu> ctrl-click to follow vehicle doesn't work on zoom out levels, intended? 13:28:08 <peter1139> Yup, but I don't know/remember why. 13:29:13 <Samu> it is a cool feature 13:29:19 *** Natio [~Natio@x1-6-e0-46-9a-98-35-7a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 13:30:06 <Samu> you could make the main menu background game follow a vehicle 13:30:27 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:50 <Samu> would give it a bit of immersion or so 13:37:47 <andythenorth> motion sickness :) 13:37:52 *** Natio [~Natio@x1-6-e0-46-9a-98-35-7a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:38:36 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 13:43:49 <Xaroth|Work> vomit comet \o/ 13:44:20 <Samu> :( 13:44:32 <frosch123> is that a fork of rct? 13:44:48 <Xaroth|Work> gheh 13:45:05 <Xaroth|Work> that used to be the name of the most insane coaster i could build in rct :P 13:45:22 *** Godde [~quassel@72.79-160-59.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:29 <Phreeze> lol 13:50:27 <Eddi|zuHause> <George> I can't check current power and weight of the consist in the code <-- let me reiterate the problem to check whether i understand it: you're in the running cost callback, and want to know the weight and power of the whole train? this stuff is usually cached in the front engine, so it should be easy to make a 0x40+ variable 13:54:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, 0xF4 contains "cached_power" already 14:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see a cache for weight 14:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> ah uint weight = this->gcache.cached_weight; 14:04:01 <Eddi|zuHause> " [TTDPatch] With realistic acceleration: negated total weight of the vehicle, including cargo; without realistic acceleration: full acceleration value" <--- wtf does that mean? 14:04:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-179-32-158.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:05:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that description makes no sense whatsoever... why would you negate the value? 14:05:56 <Rubidium> something like: real_accel ? -weight : max_speed ? 14:06:11 <Rubidium> hmm, probably not max_speed 14:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and does that mean binary negation (~) or numeric negation (-)? 14:06:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no, this->acceleration 14:07:37 <Rubidium> yeah.. 14:07:58 <Eddi|zuHause> at least that's how the actual acceleration code uses it 14:08:05 <Rubidium> real_accel ? -weight : power / weight * 4 (clamped to 1..255) 14:09:05 <Eddi|zuHause> again: why the fuck would you negate the value? 14:09:46 <Rubidium> < 0 ? oh... it's just weight : hmm, it's power divided by weight 14:12:33 <Samu> cant build company headquarters... company headquarters in the way. I'm just trying to move it one tile to the right :( 14:13:07 <planetmaker> easy fix... move it twice 14:13:13 <Samu> ya 14:16:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: do you agree that this variable would be stupid and useless, and there should be a new 0x40 variable instead? 14:20:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-179-32-158.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:23:25 <Samu> i had a random idea for clone vehicle 14:23:52 <Samu> the way I do needs 4 clicks, it could be reduced to 3 clicks 14:24:36 <Xaroth|Work> amount of clicks is less important than how intuitive something is :) 14:24:43 <andythenorth> +1 14:24:44 <Samu> click clone vehicle > click station name (this part should open the list of vehicles that are going to that station immediatelly) 14:25:01 <andythenorth> one weird thing is that I can clone a vehicle that is not depot 14:25:05 <Samu> it -1 click 14:25:10 <andythenorth> but not using the vehicleâs own clone method 14:26:34 <Samu> click cloen vehicle > click station name > click vehicle list going to station > click vehicle to clone , 2nd and 3rd actions could be merged, sometimes I don't have the view on the vehicle I want to clone 14:27:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium, George: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/varF8.patch 14:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, missing "break"s 14:29:58 <Eddi|zuHause> updated 14:30:21 <Samu> if im cloning from a road depot, it would open the list of road vehicles on the station should that station be also for a train or aircraft, I think it's possible to do 14:30:27 <Rubidium> I'm not seeing why one would use such a messy variable 14:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> alternative: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/var4X_weight.patch 14:37:55 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 14:40:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: i don't see anyone ever using that feature 14:41:04 <Samu> i use it very often 14:41:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean in the way you want it to work 14:41:47 <Samu> it can work both ways 14:42:05 <Samu> if i click clone vehicle then click a vehicle, it clones that vehicle right away 14:42:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it can, but it's certainly not worth the effort 14:42:26 <andythenorth> itâs bizarre tbh :) 14:42:44 <andythenorth> we should just provide the clone button on vehicle window even if not in depot 14:42:51 <Eddi|zuHause> you can open the list first and then clone from the list already 14:42:53 <andythenorth> dunno why we donât 14:43:07 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: because we don't know where to build it 14:43:25 <andythenorth> and this is why 14:43:27 * andythenorth will be quiet 14:43:30 <Eddi|zuHause> building stuff in a random depot was possible, but removed because it's stupid 14:44:12 <andythenorth> +1 14:47:04 <Samu> im gonna make a video 14:47:04 <Samu> just for the heck of it 14:47:21 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the point? 14:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause> even if someone was bored enough to implement that, i don't see it getting accepted... 14:47:49 <Samu> will chop it on the 2nd action 14:48:47 <Samu> strange that you don't see how quick it can be 14:50:47 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 14:52:03 <Alberth> click on the train instead of the station 14:56:25 <Samu> it's not when I'm seeing the vehicle when it comes useful 14:56:53 <George> frosch123: I want to use weight and power to calculate running cost factor 14:57:22 <Samu> for instance, i have a bunch of trucks going to a station 14:57:44 <Samu> but the station where they were loading is still filling up with cargo 14:58:09 <Samu> I can already do it in 4 clicks 14:58:15 <andythenorth> open station window, open depot, use ctrl-clone 14:58:21 <Samu> my suggestion was merely reducing one click 14:58:32 <andythenorth> I donât see how you eliminate a click 14:58:39 <Samu> that would need a vehicle in the depot 14:58:50 <andythenorth> just click on the stationâs vehicle list 14:58:51 <Samu> I have them all out already 14:58:57 <Samu> yes exactly 14:59:21 <Samu> that's the auto-merged click when clone vehicle action is the current cursor 14:59:25 <Samu> that's my suggestion 14:59:35 <andythenorth> so now you break clone for everybody :( 14:59:41 <andythenorth> itâs a dumb suggestion :) 14:59:49 <andythenorth> in the nicest possible terms :) 15:00:02 <andythenorth> you want to completely change the current behaviour 15:00:17 <Samu> no, it can work with both behaviours 15:00:24 <Samu> it only depends on what I click 15:00:29 <George> Eddi|zuHause: if you expect my testing you need to provide win 32 executable ;) 15:00:40 <andythenorth> also how does openttd know which station vehicle list is supposed to be opened? 15:00:59 <Samu> you click on the station 15:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause> George: we've been there a number of times. i can't provide such executables :p 15:01:04 <Samu> already with the clone vehicle 15:01:37 <George> Someone else can? 15:01:41 <andythenorth> so you want a new button on depots? 15:01:49 <Samu> i think I need to make a video 15:01:54 <andythenorth> âclone from vehicle list of station \/â 15:02:08 <Samu> the clone vehicle button is from the depot 15:02:23 <andythenorth> but you need a new button 15:02:32 <Samu> how? it's already there 15:02:37 <andythenorth> the current button clones, it doesnât open station vehicle list windows 15:02:46 <andythenorth> if you make it do something different, it doesnât clone 15:02:57 <andythenorth> and then we have months of angry forums 15:03:18 <Samu> it behaves like a normal left click right now 15:03:29 <Samu> when i don't click on a vehicle, it opens stuff 15:03:43 <Samu> opens windows 15:04:27 <andythenorth> so you want to add a new mode 15:04:41 <andythenorth> when clone tool is active, clicking on station opens stationâs vehicle list 15:04:52 <Samu> yes! yup 15:05:01 <andythenorth> it does save a click 15:05:07 <Samu> yes, that's all it do 15:08:05 <Alberth> how to know which vehicle to clone from the list? 15:08:26 <Samu> the origin depot type 15:08:29 <Alberth> in general, there are many different vehicles with different orders arriving at a station 15:08:44 <Samu> if its road vehicle depot, it opens road vehicle list 15:08:57 <Alberth> if it's electrical, you can have 2 types 15:09:35 <Alberth> yeah, so some coal trucks go to A, and some other coal trucks go to B, I want A, how to know that from the list? 15:10:11 <Samu> that needs more clicks or knowledge of what your vehicles are going 15:10:17 <andythenorth> Alberth: you see them in the list 15:10:28 <Alberth> I cannot click, as that would be a clone 15:10:28 <andythenorth> itâs just changing which of the current windows open when clone tool is active 15:10:50 <andythenorth> it saves a click, itâs not a dumb idea, but dunno if it adds anything except confusion :) 15:11:11 <Samu> :) 15:11:24 <Alberth> andythenorth: but it just displays a truck, no way to know which one to clone, in general 15:11:52 <Samu> i usually click on the station which has the cargo to load 15:11:57 <Samu> not on the destination 15:12:09 <Alberth> doesn't matter 15:12:55 <Alberth> you get a bunch of vehicles in the list, and without further checking, you cannot find out which one you want to clone 15:13:35 <Alberth> except in the case when you bring everything to the same destination, but that's an exception 15:13:42 <andythenorth> Alberth: you read the orders (for ships anyway) 15:13:58 <andythenorth> I am -1 to this idea, but cloning is not fun :P 15:14:12 <andythenorth> that RV screenshot I posted yesterday was a lot of painful cloning 15:17:01 <Alberth> ha, you cloned all those trucks, and then complained it was too busy? :) 15:20:24 <Alberth> hmm, it doesn't allow deleting of a save game, wtf? 15:26:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B995.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:30:36 *** montalvo [~montalvo@88-105-92-43.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 15:33:00 *** montalvo_ [~montalvo@host-2-99-61-203.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:35:18 <andythenorth> Alberth: yup :) 15:35:26 <andythenorth> trying to see if I could do it without ships or trains 15:35:32 <andythenorth> I won, but it was painful 15:35:43 <Alberth> :) 15:36:04 <Alberth> but you won! :D 15:36:51 <Samu> i made the video anyway: http://1drv.ms/1q0Uk8t - guess where I chopped it 15:37:11 <Phreeze> why put videos on onedrive, theres youtube for that :) 15:37:19 <Phreeze> that dynamic quality shit sucks 15:37:41 <Samu> google sucks 15:37:54 <Samu> dynamic quality, what is that? 15:38:07 <Phreeze> it's what onedrives uses 15:38:14 <Phreeze> it shows the video in a bad quality 15:38:36 <Samu> that's my quality 15:38:38 <Phreeze> then after seconds, it sees: oh he can download faster, and augments the quality 15:38:47 <Phreeze> why "google" sucks ? 15:38:48 <andythenorth> Alberth: did we ever discuss consists, in the past? o_O 15:39:09 <Alberth> at least once, less than a week ago? 15:39:18 <Samu> when google merged youtube accounts with theirs, I lost access to my youtube account 15:39:19 <Samu> thx to google 15:40:22 <Samu> i needed a google account to delete my youtube account, seriously enervating about it, that I decided I wouldn't use youtube ever again 15:40:23 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:40:33 <Phreeze> no 15:40:35 <andythenorth> lo Snail 15:40:40 <Phreeze> you just have to switch to the other account samu 15:40:45 <Snail> hey andy 15:40:55 <Samu> I didn't have a google account 15:41:06 <Samu> they wanted to merge with something that didn't exit 15:41:07 <Samu> exist 15:41:09 <Phreeze> no android phone ? :) 15:41:11 <Phreeze> fail per se ;) 15:42:53 <Samu> the quality was supposed to be good, but I see 15:43:07 <Samu> that red looks like pale red 15:43:22 <Samu> the green grass is too bright 15:44:02 <andythenorth> ugh 15:44:11 * andythenorth rediscovers ârefactor_this.lessâ 15:44:12 <andythenorth> :( 15:44:26 <andythenorth> oh the humanity 15:44:32 <Samu> using handbrake to convert 15:45:12 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:46:00 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r26554 trunk/src/fios.cpp (2014-05-03 15:45:54 UTC) 15:46:01 <DorpsGek> -Fix(r26489): Use last address of the destination buffer. 15:48:00 <Alberth> old crap has a way of turning up at the worst moments :) 15:49:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: is that related to the file not writable stuff? 15:50:16 <Samu> i reported that bug 15:50:34 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: no, it was related to the comment of andy 15:51:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant the commit 15:51:26 <Samu> offtopic: what you think of this video quality http://1drv.ms/1fHdYfU - i'm using the save handbrake preset 15:51:33 <Samu> same* 15:52:15 <Phreeze> with quality i mean resolution 15:52:18 <Phreeze> its like 300x200 15:52:22 <Phreeze> then it dynamically adjusts 15:52:23 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: oh, I got "unable to delete file" when deleting a file 15:52:41 <Phreeze> but again: use a free video website ;) like vimeo or so 15:53:00 <Samu> can't you increase it to fullscreen? 15:53:04 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: just reading FS#6002, and I am currently wondering where the "File is not writable comes from" 15:53:24 <Phreeze> it doesnt matter if full screen or not ... damn you dont get it 15:53:29 <Phreeze> i'll screenshot it for you ;) 15:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: the forum thread made it sound like it's not setting the filename correctly 15:53:39 <Samu> good, i need to see 15:53:45 <Alberth> mine was empty on deletion :) 15:53:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: so it might be trying to write to "emtpy string" or something 15:54:06 <Samu> because it's onedrive, it's like dropbox, I deposit files there, it shouldn't convert them 15:54:20 <Samu> it's a 1920x1080 video 15:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: use a lossless codec? 15:57:10 <Snail> just wondering⊠anyone out there still using ttdpatch? 15:58:00 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I can save in both versions 15:58:28 <Samu> lossless lagarith? i shall try it for openttd 15:58:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: someone said saving only worked on win32, not win64 15:59:00 <Samu> for other more animated high fps videos, lagarith isn't too fast as xvid 15:59:09 <Samu> i was using xvid 15:59:55 * Alberth uses linux 64 bits 16:00:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: i only know ZMBV, but i never tried to make a video with it 16:00:17 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:01:00 <andythenorth> Snail: silence... 16:01:04 <andythenorth> Wallyweb probably 16:01:07 <Snail> :) 16:01:26 <Snail> coz Iâm tempted to use a feature in my code, thatâs not supported by ttdpatch 16:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never ever even considered TTDP compatibility 16:05:46 <andythenorth> I considered it 16:05:56 <andythenorth> right after I finished smoking crack 16:08:05 <andythenorth> hmm 16:08:10 <andythenorth> time for a break from work 16:08:24 <andythenorth> has anyone made a new GS yet? o_O 16:08:34 <andythenorth> or do I have to play SV *again* :P 16:09:52 <Samu> eddi, plz post a screenshot of how u see the video 16:10:07 <Samu> Eddi|zuHause: 16:10:20 <Samu> trying to find out why this color change in the resulting video 16:11:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not watched the video 16:11:36 <Samu> oh, it's Phreeze , soz 16:11:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but in general colour changes in jpeg because it's so lossy 16:11:53 <Samu> it was captured as YV12 16:12:06 <Samu> then transcoded using handbrake 16:12:18 <Samu> handbrake did change the color, I dunno why 16:12:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it's all jpeg-based 16:13:04 <Eddi|zuHause> discrete cosinus transformation and stuff 16:14:06 <Samu> x264 is the video codec 16:14:06 <__ln___> eeeeeeeenglisshhhhhh, cosine 16:14:09 <Samu> but i see 16:14:14 <Eddi|zuHause> which means things are overlaid with curves, and straight lines blur 16:14:48 <Samu> there's a lossless x264, but I can't see anything with it, don't have a decoder for it 16:18:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-179-32-158.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:20:58 <Phreeze> yay just damaged my gfs phone lcd while replacing the glass 16:21:00 <Phreeze> fuck it 16:22:24 <Eddi|zuHause> why would you do that yourself in the first place? 16:22:51 <planetmaker> just because? 16:24:40 <planetmaker> Snail, I'm not sure whether this channel is the right place to find out :) 16:24:59 <planetmaker> Snail, not exactly new, but George asked some time ago... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=30188&start=1760 16:25:05 <Snail> yeah should place a message on the forums 16:25:32 <Snail> planetmaker: yep remember that. Was wondering if that changed at all 16:25:51 <planetmaker> you'll always have the odd person playing TTDPatch 16:26:17 <Snail> I myself would love to use ttdpatch, if I could on my mac (without emulation) 16:26:22 <Snail> at least to get programmable signals :p 16:27:14 <planetmaker> The question is whether you want to go to great lengths to support both. Or whether you simply branch you code and add OpenTTD stuff in the OpenTTD branch only (or leave-out OpenTTD stuff in that branch) 16:27:15 <Samu> lucky find - http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=35683&p=306810&hilit=zmbv+codec#p306810 16:27:26 <planetmaker> or simply ignore one of the two 16:28:38 <Snail> right, the problem is that ttdpatch doesnât seem to support âspriteblocksâ with > 255 items 16:29:18 <Snail> and to correctly code push-pull in certain cases I need large blocks of sprites 16:30:04 <Snail> another perhaps unrelated question 16:30:19 <Snail> any thoughts about separating the graphics of a sprite from its offsets? 16:30:28 <Snail> right now we have to define both at the same time 16:31:03 <Snail> so if the same graphics needs to have different offsets (happens with push-pull) you have to load the ârealâ graphical sprite twice 16:31:21 <Snail> would be much better if we could define the graphics first, then the offsets, and then link them together... 16:33:17 <planetmaker> well, you can... in OpenTTD :P 16:33:53 <planetmaker> extended spritesets for the win 16:35:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-179-32-158.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:36:13 <Eddi|zuHause> <Snail> any thoughts about separating the graphics of a sprite from its offsets? <-- i suggested this before, but got shot down 16:36:44 <Snail> heh. On what grounds was it shot down? 16:37:00 <Snail> I think it would be extremely useful for us newGRF developers 16:37:01 <Eddi|zuHause> something about performance 16:37:30 <Snail> hmm⊠so having a code that defines 4 times the same graphics is good, performance-wise? :p 16:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes-ish 16:39:17 <planetmaker> Snail, yes. OpenTTD is CPU-limited mostly. Not memory-limited 16:39:30 <andythenorth> whatâs the problem with the graphics being specified with offsets? 16:39:53 <Snail> andythenorth: when doing push-pull, you need to change the offsets for the âreversedâ (pushing) case 16:39:59 <Snail> while the graphics is exactly the same 16:40:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail: imagine i want to make the graphics callback return offsets based on var61, the game has to calculate these offsets (slow) and store these offsets somewhere next to the sprite 16:40:26 <andythenorth> Snail: push-pull is a BAD FEATURE anyway :) 16:40:27 <Eddi|zuHause> so the same sprite may have different offsets depending on where it is drawn 16:40:31 <Snail> so it would be easier and less confusing to define the graphics only once, then define two offsets, and then link graphics + the required offsets 16:40:35 <Snail> andythenorth: LOL 16:41:06 <Snail> Edd|zuHause: yes thatâs the point, same sprite, different offsets 16:41:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail: so the sprite cache gets much more difficult 16:41:17 <Snail> ok I get it :p 16:41:19 <andythenorth> Snail: how are you defining graphics? o_O 16:41:56 <Snail> andythenorth: currently, you define graphics and offsets at the same time. My idea was to define them separately and then link them. But it looks like this would imply large performance issues 16:42:23 * andythenorth ponders 16:42:32 <andythenorth> Snail: paste? 16:42:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail: even if performance isn't the actual problem, it'd be a major change in architecture 16:43:06 <andythenorth> Snail: what templating are you using? 16:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail: which makes it a hard problem 16:43:09 <andythenorth> m4nfo? 16:43:15 <Snail> andythenorth: yes 16:43:28 <Snail> m4nfo makes it quite easy to define the offsets, you just specify them as a macro 16:43:35 <andythenorth> I would have thought it gets rid of the work for you 16:43:57 <andythenorth> example of some code? 16:44:01 <Snail> it does⊠mechanically. But still, the code keeps defining the same graphics, and thatâs not so elegant :p 16:44:16 <andythenorth> ach, you donât worry about reading the generated code 16:44:28 <andythenorth> unless you actually have a performance issue, elegance in the generated code is not a goal 16:44:34 <Snail> ok, this is a diesel engine going âforwardâ (pulling the train( 16:44:37 <Snail> set(template({NG_13p2M},BB600cv.png,x(LAYOUT_STANDARD),y(130))) 16:44:49 <Snail> and this is the same engine going âbackwardâ (pushing the train) 16:44:55 <Snail> set(template({NG_13p2M_R},BB600cv.png,x(LAYOUT_FLIPPED),y(130))) 16:45:03 <andythenorth> yeah, that looks quite reasonable 16:45:17 <Snail> different âtemplateâ (i.e. different offsets) and different order the sprites are taken in 16:45:28 <Snail> this gets expanded in a large set of NFO code lines 16:45:41 <planetmaker> who cares about that? 16:45:43 <andythenorth> hangon 16:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that is somewhat similar to how i do it 16:46:00 <Eddi|zuHause> with the left and right turning angles 16:46:15 <planetmaker> everyone does it that way :) 16:46:55 <Snail> :) 16:47:10 <Snail> Eddi|zuHause: so you have 16 sprites for *all* your vehicles? 16:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the problem is that andythenorth doesn't actually understand what things do, and just tweaks numbers until it looks right 16:47:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail: 24 16:47:30 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: :( 16:47:39 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: andythenorth does have some feelings 16:47:58 <Snail> wow. 24 even for the shortest vehicles? 16:48:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 16:48:22 <Snail> I once thought about that too. But then again. If I did 24 sprites for all, it would take me 30 years to finish my set :D 16:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but it makes things way easier code-wise 16:49:24 <Snail> having 24 views? 16:49:26 <andythenorth> Snail: this (34 lines) defines a vehicle, https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/vehicles/cargo_sprinter.py 16:49:33 <andythenorth> and this (1298 lines) is the result http://paste.openttdcoop.org/raw/3292/ 16:49:40 <andythenorth> most of it is whitespace :x 16:49:51 <andythenorth> but I donât worry about the elegance of that generated code 16:50:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail: no, having all vehicles use the exact same template 16:50:15 <Eddi|zuHause> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/entry/src/gfx/template_16_8bpp_normal.png 16:50:25 <Snail> oh, right 16:50:31 <andythenorth> yeah, what Eddi said 16:50:32 <andythenorth> +1 16:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/entry/src/gfx/template_3_8bpp_normal.png 16:50:57 <andythenorth> I accidentally have 2 in my train set, because we switched to 10/8 after we had lots of 8/8 vehicles drawn 16:50:59 <Snail> but how can you do with shorter vehicles? 16:51:17 <Snail> hehe there ya go 16:51:31 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/graphics/box_car_ng_brit_gen_1_0.png 16:51:36 <andythenorth> shorter vehicles :P 16:51:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the lengths go from 3 to 16 16:51:56 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a basic template for each length, but all use the same offsets 16:52:19 <Snail> but how can you do with push-pull? 16:52:23 <andythenorth> we canât 16:52:26 <andythenorth> we have articulated vehicles 16:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't... 16:52:31 <Snail> sometimes you need to change the offsets for the inverse direction 16:52:37 <Snail> ah I see 16:52:47 <Eddi|zuHause> push-pull is something i decided i won't even attempt 16:52:52 <andythenorth> push-pull, engine-flip and multi-headed engines are all not available to us 16:53:03 <Snail> not even multi-headed engines? 16:53:06 <andythenorth> nope 16:53:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i had a concept for multiheaded articulated engines 16:53:25 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, before I try that (again), I try that in OpenTTD code rather. Or outsource that to you or so ;) 16:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but i never got around to implement that 16:53:45 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you could swap the graphics on last vehicle, and set length appropriately? 16:53:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: exactly :p 16:54:03 <Snail> but you also need to swap each and every wagon 16:54:14 <Snail> unless their graphics are exactly the same 16:54:15 <andythenorth> and power :P 16:54:21 <andythenorth> and TE and weight :P 16:54:25 <andythenorth> and cargo 16:54:28 <andythenorth> ugh 16:54:38 <Snail> why power, te and weight? 16:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but the last vehicle may be a 1-part vehicle and the first vehicle 3-parts 16:54:58 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: forbid combining with other newgrfs? o_O 16:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: then you go insane 16:55:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: we may be at that point? 16:55:12 <Snail> Eddi|zuHause: so code the last vehicle as 3-part too 16:55:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i have this mixture in my grf 16:55:25 <andythenorth> oic :) 16:55:30 <andythenorth> I thought you insisted on simplicity :P 16:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail: the turning stages don't work well if the vehicle parts get too short 16:56:03 <Snail> ah I see 16:56:17 <andythenorth> Snail: convinced yet that the dupliation is ok? o_O 16:56:42 <Snail> andythenorth: :D 16:56:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's simple. it's an array defining: "12: (3,6,3)" 16:57:09 <Eddi|zuHause> so a 12 lu vehicle will have 3 parts 16:57:14 <Snail> Eddi|zuHause: so your UIC coaches are 16/8 long? 16:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> of these lengths 16:57:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail: i think we settled on 13 16:57:37 <Snail> hmm 16:57:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail: sets the scale at 2px = 1m in - view 16:57:46 <Snail> interesting. In my scale Iâll use 12 :p 16:58:03 <Snail> heh. Mine is 90cm :D 16:58:38 <Snail> (I tweaked it this way to have UIC coaches (26.4m) to be exaclty 12/8 long) 16:58:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i wanted 16 originally, but there were both optical and gameplay reasons against it 16:58:58 <Snail> Eddi|zuHause: yeah I guess so 16:59:24 <Snail> I think something like yours makes sense. Makes âlongâ narrow gauge vehicles be 8/8 or 9/8 long. Thatâs a good effect IMO 16:59:41 <Eddi|zuHause> when deciding on the smaller scale i wanted at least 2x zoom vehicles, but no artist would commit to that 16:59:54 <planetmaker> :( 16:59:56 <Snail> eddi|zuHause: I bet 17:00:06 <Snail> even a rivet-counter like myself had to give it up... 17:00:17 <Snail> donât get me wrong Iâd love to draw vehicles with better detail 17:00:21 <planetmaker> if you go the pikka approach, rendering could work. With some skew / distortion 17:00:23 <Snail> but this is not my day-job :D 17:00:33 <Snail> nah I canât render to save my life 17:00:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll probably try pixeltool sometime 17:00:45 <Snail> I grew up on Deluxe Paint, so itâs pixel pushing forever 17:00:58 <andythenorth> pixeltool looks like a winner 17:01:06 <Snail> hmm :) 17:01:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it seems like the next logical step up from my crude pixa stuff 17:01:35 <planetmaker> it's a nice tool for sure 17:01:51 <Eddi|zuHause> if i get it to run from the generator script 17:01:53 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 17:02:02 <Snail> tbh I have too much fun to draw manually 17:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have too much fun generating stuff :p 17:02:53 <andythenorth> pixeltool is a much better solution than pixa 17:02:58 <andythenorth> pixa is fine for recoloring 17:03:05 <andythenorth> and mangling spritesheets 17:03:11 <andythenorth> not for drawing vehicles 17:04:18 <Samu> hey Eddi|zuHause , lossless x264 - http://1drv.ms/1q16RZm 17:04:28 <Samu> converted from rgb24 17:04:43 <Samu> it changed colors, I can't do any better with what i have 17:07:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't really work well if you can't keep the exact resolution 17:07:25 <Samu> download the file then, it should be 1280x720 17:08:37 *** SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@dslb-094-220-171-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:08:52 <Samu> it shouldn't be different to what you see in a video player 17:10:08 * andythenorth had better fix RV offsets 17:10:18 <andythenorth> time to tweak some numbers I donât understand :( 17:11:46 <Samu> the video next to it, is using ZMBV codec i just tried 17:12:03 <Samu> but it can't play on the browser, only if you download 17:12:07 <Samu> it's black 17:12:53 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: offsets could be reverse engineered from ottd vehicle code? Solving the issue definitively? 17:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: offsets are a solved issue. it's not my fault you don't understand the solution... 17:15:31 *** Phreeze_ [~p@74.120.221.228] has joined #openttd 17:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: maybe the colour change was already in your source material? 17:18:52 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-11053.vo.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:19:27 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-11053.vo.lu] has joined #openttd 17:22:06 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so where is the solution documented? 17:22:33 <andythenorth> other than cargo-culting from other sets 17:22:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: some of my early templated had dots in them for where the sprite anchor was 17:23:10 <andythenorth> they still in the repo? 17:23:28 <andythenorth> without hunting n old changesets? 17:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause> in some earlier rev 17:23:34 *** Phreeze_ [~p@74.120.221.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:24:36 <andythenorth> meh, Iâll do it by, again 17:24:44 <andythenorth> like I have for the last 6 years :( 17:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause> try rev 81 17:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the 16lu template 17:26:34 <Eddi|zuHause> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/81/entry/src/gfx/template_16.png 17:27:02 <Eddi|zuHause> they might not be complete 17:27:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you need different offsets depending on direction 17:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause> cut off the front and back segment if you want to know offsets for a regular 8lu vehicle 17:28:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and only look at every 3rd sprite for the regular views 17:29:04 <Eddi|zuHause> so 1/4/7/10 17:29:04 <andythenorth> so the dividers are 4/8 units? 17:29:08 <andythenorth> and the red dots are? 17:29:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 17:29:21 <Eddi|zuHause> the red dots are the back of the vehicle 17:29:41 <andythenorth> the dark dot is the zero point? 17:29:54 <Eddi|zuHause> yes-ish 17:30:43 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> on the 8th sprite you see the difference between the offsets for the different directions 17:31:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i stopped putting down dots when i figured out the system 17:32:18 <andythenorth> for different length vehicles, ottd presumably re-centers the zero point? 17:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the ingame sprite aligner helps a lot 17:32:25 <Eddi|zuHause> no 17:32:33 <andythenorth> it doesnât :o 17:32:41 <andythenorth> that was a major false assumption by me :P 17:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it's fixed at the front of the vehicle 17:33:07 <Eddi|zuHause> look at the 3lu template i linked earlier 17:33:36 <Eddi|zuHause> offsets are the same, but vehicle is shifted within the template to match 17:33:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not symmetric anymore 17:34:27 <andythenorth> hmm 17:36:06 <andythenorth> did you calculate /measure the resulting offsets for this? Or did you do it by eye with BB in-game? 17:38:45 <Samu> i created an animated gif, it maintained the original colors 17:39:17 <Samu> strange, usually gid destroys colors 17:39:25 <Samu> gif* 17:40:05 <planetmaker> learn about palette vs truecolour 17:41:43 <Samu> gif-video: https://rupavq.dm2302.livefilestore.com/y2ppqDmumaobY7yFFHBuKDo8Ab4kxac0suOKdmJ7HizJel7o9b0uS3e2CPyN4vJ6gxMzEk1CUf4-Cl8l2xY7QQwn2KpQ5MpRdF6f86VY157zqI/bandicam%202014-05-03%2017-35-00-243.gif?psid=1 17:41:48 <Samu> should take a bit to start 17:42:15 <Samu> it's 16 MB 17:42:25 *** montalvo [~montalvo@88-105-92-43.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 17:43:28 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:43:34 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [] 17:44:41 <andythenorth> hmm 17:45:26 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26555 /trunk/src/lang (czech.txt english_US.txt) (2014-05-03 17:45:18 UTC) 17:45:27 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:28 <DorpsGek> czech - 18 changes by Eskymak 17:45:29 <DorpsGek> english_US - 5 changes by Supercheese 17:45:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: then clearly you have some wrong option set in the encoder that screws up the colours 17:46:13 <Samu> so that's.... handbrake 17:46:26 <Samu> ok, thanks 17:46:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know handbrake 17:46:49 <Samu> http://handbrake.fr 17:47:27 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so did you calculate, or set offsets by eye? o_O 17:48:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i tried by eye, then i got fed up and did the calculation 17:48:18 <andythenorth> ok, so itâs a viable route 17:48:37 <andythenorth> I wasnât going to spend an evening calcultating to then find out you did it by eye :P 17:48:43 <andythenorth> calcultating? 17:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> get the bounding box, and find the invisible corner 17:49:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that's where your sprite offset needs to be 17:50:00 <andythenorth> right, thatâs a simple method 17:51:18 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:54:53 <Samu> I always wondered how autosave works when multiple openttds are saving 17:55:06 <Samu> do they screw each other? 17:55:57 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so itâs more measuring on the spritesheet template than calculating? 17:56:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: yes 17:56:48 <planetmaker> andy, no, you don't need to. The length is known 17:57:04 <Samu> how does windows manages it 17:57:07 <planetmaker> so you basically can start from there and obtain the rest 17:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: in which context? 17:57:48 <Samu> if one autosave slot is being in use and the other wants to save with that name also 17:57:48 <andythenorth> planetmaker: ? 17:58:25 <Samu> concurrent access to the same autosave 17:58:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: in general, while one program writes to a file, every other program is blocked from writing to that file 18:01:14 <planetmaker> andythenorth, if you know the length of the vehicle in LU, and you know how the vehicle scales in / and | views, I'd argue that you can obtain the offsets when you know how it has to be for 8/8 LU vehicle in -- view 18:01:22 <Alberth> depends on the platform :p 18:02:09 <planetmaker> andythenorth, but I have to confess I went for the visual offset-pushing ;) 18:03:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you have block-y vehicles, it's simple counting of pixels. 18:04:06 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if your vehicles have weird shapes you have to be a bit more creative 18:08:24 <andythenorth> I am counting pixels right now 18:08:29 <andythenorth> seems to work 18:08:55 <andythenorth> to get correct results I have to do a subtraction from spritesheet crop size 18:10:33 <andythenorth> I think thatâs incorrect 18:11:13 <Samu> question: i have 2 docks, in which one of them doesn't accept mail momentaneously, but the ship is going towards both without full orders so it has mail from both docks. How do I tell it to unload part of the mail that is accepted from one of the docks and keeps the other part? 18:11:53 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@dhcp-089-098-029-118.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: rebot] 18:12:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-179-32-158.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:12:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-179-32-158.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: "unload and leave empty" 18:14:01 <Samu> that means it goes empty :( 18:14:10 <andythenorth> are you using cdist? 18:14:22 <Samu> uh? nop 18:14:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: at the dock that accepts the mail 18:14:59 <Samu> let me try 18:15:22 <andythenorth> trying to route specific cargo without cdist is not a thing 18:16:08 <Samu> i dont know what is cdist, is it a game setting? 18:17:07 <andythenorth> yes 18:17:12 <andythenorth> cargo distribution 18:17:16 <andythenorth> sorry for jargon :) 18:17:41 <andythenorth> right, the - / and \ views are easy to calculate 18:17:50 <Samu> distribution mode for mail: manual 18:17:58 <andythenorth> I always find the | views a total bastard 18:17:58 <Samu> should i change? 18:19:27 <Samu> it's not working as I intend 18:19:48 <Samu> let's say I have 30 bags of mail from dock 1 and 50 bags of mail from dock 2, already loaded on the ship 18:19:55 <andythenorth> Samu: switching on cargo distribution gives you quite a different game play style 18:19:56 <andythenorth> try it? 18:20:08 <andythenorth> you may find it takes a while to adjust :) 18:20:10 <Samu> if docks 1 accepts mail, can't it just unload 50 from the docks 2 and keep the 30? 18:20:19 <andythenorth> the BB for | views is kind of useless 18:20:32 <andythenorth> why can we draw an accurate one for \ and / but not for | ? 18:21:37 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@dhcp-089-098-029-118.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:22:25 <peter1139> Because it can only be aligned to a grid. 18:22:49 <andythenorth> k 18:25:51 <Phreeze> samu they are all unloaded 18:26:02 <Phreeze> with cdist off 18:28:07 <Samu> http://i.imgur.com/oPUgnJA.png 18:28:59 <andythenorth> well that was ridiculously easy https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6066/8_8_rh_offsets.png 18:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: if you keep the 30 from dock 1, then you load additional mail from dock 1, and your ship slowly fills up with mail from dock 1, which it cannot unload at dock 2 18:30:59 <andythenorth> whatâs the compression ratio for x between â and \ views? 18:31:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: 2, if you use 32px view 18:31:44 <andythenorth> I get anything from 0.5 to 0.7 measuring from sprites :P 18:32:13 <andythenorth> ok, so once 8/8 length offsets are known, all the others are just a caculation based on length? 18:32:21 <andythenorth> assuming sensible spritesheet... 18:32:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be 0.7-ish if you want to keep perspective 18:32:45 <andythenorth> yeah, so a lot of FISH is wrong because it comes from incorrect renders 18:32:50 <andythenorth> nvm 18:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you align the vehicle correctly within the spritesheet, the offsets should not depend on length 18:33:26 <andythenorth> iff 18:33:29 <peter1139> sqrt(2)/2? 18:33:51 <peter1139> 1/sqrt(2) 18:33:52 <peter1139> oh 18:33:55 <peter1139> same :p 18:34:46 <peter1139> and offsets should be at the centre of the vehicle 18:34:49 <peter1139> unlike zbase :( 18:39:04 *** DanMacK [~0a0a6574@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 18:39:09 <DanMacK> Hey all 18:40:49 <andythenorth> hey DanMacK 18:40:59 <DanMacK> how goes it? 18:41:45 * andythenorth is fixing road vehicle offsets 18:41:57 <andythenorth> donât attempt that when your test vehicle has a borked spritesheet 18:42:08 <DanMacK> lol 18:43:26 <andythenorth> 4x zoom is a fricking lifesaver for offset checking 18:45:27 <Samu> cargo distribution is confusing, i need to understand what's going on 18:46:29 <Samu> ah I see, i need 3 stations at least 18:47:43 <andythenorth> itâs quite a different way to play 18:48:33 <Samu> 10 bags of mail from this station, 3 wants to go to station 2, 7 wants to go to station 3 18:48:47 <Samu> it still picks the whole 10 bags though 18:51:17 <Samu> interesting, i must play with these settings some time 18:54:28 * andythenorth got the wrong adjustment from 8/8 to 7/8 offsets for â :( 18:54:38 <andythenorth> I subtracted 4, looks like I need to subtract 2 18:54:59 <andythenorth> which doesnât make sense 18:56:04 <planetmaker> centre-based vs. edge-based, andythenorth ? 18:56:04 <andythenorth> or rather, it makes sense, but itâs now how I understood the explanation :P 18:56:31 <andythenorth> delta / 2 would be the conventional way in all the game engines I used in my murky past 18:56:51 <andythenorth> which would be 2 18:57:35 <Eddi|zuHause> if you centerd it, it would be 2, if you aligned it to the front, it would be 0, if you aligned it to the back it would be 4 19:01:23 <andythenorth> one view is aligned front, one view is aligned back 19:01:45 <andythenorth> 8/8 vs. 7/8 19:02:10 <andythenorth> both 7/8 views require an x delta of 2 wrt to the 8/8 views 19:02:40 <andythenorth> ok I think I understand now 19:03:24 <Samu> omg, the reddit server is funny, so much station spreading it's even hard to follow where the cargo is coming from 19:03:58 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: this âmeasure the invisible cornerâ route is very fast and accurate for / \ views 19:04:00 <andythenorth> thanks 19:04:30 <Phreeze> out for a drink, cyas 19:04:53 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-11053.vo.lu] has quit [] 19:07:46 <andythenorth> DanMacK: so you got a 6/8 long RV open in paint? 19:07:57 <andythenorth> no sprites = no offsets :D 19:09:12 <DanMacK> Got a 7/8... but I can get a 6/8 :P 19:09:27 <andythenorth> find one we need :) 19:09:50 <andythenorth> ho, theyâre all articulated trucks :( 19:10:48 <DanMacK> heh 19:11:00 <DanMacK> There are a couple non-artics 19:11:17 <andythenorth> and tram offsets were âspecialâ last time I tried :( 19:11:24 <DanMacK> hmmm 19:11:38 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@66.238-27-211.dynamic.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:52 * andythenorth wonders if tram offsets are special, or if the tram tracks are just drawn wrong 19:13:06 <andythenorth> iirc, impossible to align to track for both drive sides 19:16:56 <Eddi|zuHause> just try again with the offsets you now know 19:19:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: issue was this https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3247 19:19:28 <andythenorth> so maybe just bad offsets :P 19:21:22 <Eddi|zuHause> well you could just provide different sets of offsets depending on driving side 19:22:01 <andythenorth> yup 19:27:01 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:27:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 19:28:02 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 19:41:09 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:52:50 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.40.220.185] has joined #openttd 19:55:09 *** DanMacK [~0a0a6574@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:56:42 <Samu> can openmsx be used for other files than midi? 19:56:49 <Samu> would it play? 19:57:34 <frosch123> no 19:59:14 <Samu> :( 20:00:16 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a really ancient mp3 patch 20:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but nobody bothered 20:01:41 <frosch123> disabling the music works, that's all i care about 20:02:06 <Samu> so, only midis? 20:02:19 <frosch123> if you are lucky 20:02:28 <Samu> not even .mod files? they're similar 20:02:29 <frosch123> but in various cases not even that 20:02:40 <frosch123> .mod is nowhere any similar to midi 20:03:31 <Samu> there's still a tracker to play the sounds in order 20:03:32 <frosch123> well, ok, both separate between instruments and notes 20:03:33 <Rubidium> .mod and .mid is just off-by-one on many keyboards, so they must be similar 20:03:40 <Rubidium> just like mp3 and mp4 are similar 20:04:13 <frosch123> mp3 is layer 3 of mp2 or something like that 20:05:31 *** SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@dslb-094-220-171-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:36 <Samu> is this your page? http://openmsx.sourceforge.net/ 20:06:16 <frosch123> no, that is completely unrelated to ottd 20:07:27 <Rubidium> though... on Unix-y OSes it might be possible to run other files than midi by configuring extmidi to be some other music player 20:08:01 <peter1139> extmidi not built on Windows? 20:08:15 <frosch123> though the question arises why anyone would use the internal player anyway 20:08:43 <Taede> hysterical raisins? 20:08:43 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that's the "nobody bothered" part 20:09:12 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone who wanted different music and could be willing to care, just used an external music player 20:09:18 <Rubidium> peter1139: nope, it doesn't seem to be ported to Windows' interpretation of signals and the likes 20:09:27 <andythenorth> all games must have a music player 20:09:30 <andythenorth> itâs a law 20:09:43 <andythenorth> in case my OS didnât have an MP3 player... 20:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but i know no game where you could actually change the internal music 20:10:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean "officially" 20:10:40 <peter1139> Heh 20:10:46 <frosch123> there was an era where you could change the music by insertnig a different cd 20:10:52 <peter1139> I remember quite a lot of effort went into a generic music player interface... 20:12:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-179-32-158.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:14:23 <frosch123> there was also a time when people were proud of having 10 gb of mp3, of which they have barely heard 10% and barely liked 5% or so 20:14:26 *** Godde [~quassel@72.79-160-59.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 20:14:41 <peter1139> Errrr 20:15:14 *** Godde [~quassel@72.79-160-59.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:19 *** Godde [~quassel@72.79-160-59.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 20:15:28 <peter1139> So that 83GB directory full of music I've got... 20:15:41 *** Godde [~quassel@72.79-160-59.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:34 <Alberth> you have some listening to do? 20:19:05 <Samu> lol, i just came accross this: http://i.imgur.com/pCi6gyt.png 20:19:21 <Samu> that tunnel doesn't make much sense 20:19:43 <frosch123> why? 20:19:58 <Taede> its no worse than building a bridge to preserve the river 20:20:15 <Samu> it makes the water look too thin after all 20:20:34 <peter1139> I listen regularly. Is it common to not have music collections now? 20:20:46 <frosch123> i am only streaming 20:21:06 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26556 /trunk (source.list src/music/extmidi.cpp) (2014-05-03 20:21:01 UTC) 20:21:07 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: use sources.list to tell a file shouldn't be built for a particular platform 20:21:10 <frosch123> who bothers maintaining a collection if you have a streaming service which is managed by someone else? 20:21:33 <peter1139> Hardly need maintaining. 20:21:38 <Rubidium> streaming is still kinda bothersome in certain situations 20:21:49 <Samu> electrified rails on a tunnel with a river over it, strange realism 20:22:40 <frosch123> i do not listen to music at work 20:22:48 <frosch123> would be pointless anyway 20:23:07 * Rubidium was more thinking of certains travel locations 20:23:36 <peter1139> I would use up my 1GB/month mobile allowance rather rapidly if I streaming everything. 20:23:42 <peter1139> *streamed 20:23:49 <Rubidium> e.g. over( )seas 20:24:20 <Samu> my music collection is 6,36 GB (6.832.728.576 bytes) 20:24:48 *** Godde [~quassel@72.79-160-59.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 20:24:59 <peter1139> Hmm, 2.45GB music sync from Amazon, mostly £0.00 20:25:18 <Samu> mp3, wma, aac, flac and wav 20:25:25 <Samu> all mixed up 20:26:02 <peter1139> Format only matters when it comes to syncing to a portable device. 20:28:23 *** lskynl [lskynl@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 20:28:28 <Samu> a bridge over a river is more likely to happen in reality 20:28:34 <Samu> than a tunnel under a river 20:28:47 <frosch123> have you been to hamburg? 20:28:51 <Samu> no 20:29:41 <frosch123> well, there is a popular tunnel under a river 20:30:17 *** DanMacK [~0a0a6574@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 20:31:30 <__ln___> even two, it seems. 20:31:38 <__ln___> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbe_Tunnel_%281911%29 20:34:36 <Rubidium> there's also at least one in the Netherlands 20:35:13 <Samu> i dont travel much 20:35:18 <Samu> :( 20:35:19 <Taede> coentunnel in amsterdam 20:36:50 <Taede> and one in rotterdam too 20:37:00 <__ln___> also the london underground crosses thames underground and underriver. 20:37:07 <Taede> and then theres loads of aquaducts too 20:37:13 <Rubidium> that's #2 (Willemsspoortunnel in Rotterdam; merely four tracks wide and half a few hundred meter or so wide river) 20:38:09 <Rubidium> hmm... I should've thought harder 20:38:34 <Rubidium> Keyrail probably has more tunnels under rivers than Prorail ;) 20:38:59 <Rubidium> actually, the Coentunnel in Amsterdam is for cars. The one for trains is the Hemtunnel 20:39:02 <George> [18:27:54] <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium, George: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/varF8.patch 20:39:23 <George> Could someone provide win32 executable for me? 20:39:42 <Eddi|zuHause> George: that patch is stupid, use the other one 20:40:13 <George> I can't use patchs, I can use win32 executable 20:40:19 <frosch123> Taede: hmm, i have only seen aquaducts near ship lifts or or locks 20:40:29 <frosch123> are there bigger things in nl? 20:40:51 <Taede> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.0789029,5.8242996,929m/data=!3m1!1e3 20:41:19 <Taede> thats one that springs to mind, as ive traveled underneath a lot 20:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: Mittellandkanal/Elbe is a large aquaeduct 20:41:51 <Eddi|zuHause> and there are loads of smaller canals in france that have aquaeducts 20:41:53 <Rubidium> Infraspeed/HSL/high speed tracks has two, Keyrail/Betuweroute (incl. "havenspoorlijnen", cargo only routes) has 4 (one under two rivers) and Prorail (normal/other rails) has 4 as well 20:44:51 <Rubidium> although... the question becomes... what is a river and what isn't? For there to be a consideration for a tunnel, the river should at least be navigable by large ships 20:45:16 <Rubidium> and all the rest gets basically a bridge of some sorts 20:47:01 <Rubidium> but I guess I digress 20:47:05 <Taede> so what constitutes a large ship? 20:47:57 <Rubidium> width: > 10 meters, length: > 50 meters, draft: > 5 meters? 20:48:10 <frosch123> isn't ship size measured in whether they fit unter bridges or through canals? 20:48:15 <frosch123> and otherwise as big as possible? 20:48:45 <frosch123> panama-canal-sized ships and such 20:48:55 <frosch123> or elbe-sized ships 20:49:28 <Rubidium> true, but... height is not always a problem 20:50:01 <frosch123> Samu: anyway, considering the images on the web, canals bridges are not particular deep 20:50:07 <frosch123> so nothing wrong with ottd there 20:50:44 <Samu> ok 20:50:51 <Samu> i just found it funny 20:51:01 <Rubidium> ... when there are bascule or swing bridges 20:51:32 <Samu> cargo distribution disables subsidies? 20:52:01 <Rubidium> a number of the Dutch rail bridges have been replaced by tunnels because the bridge needed to "open" too often for the amount of trains that needed/wanted to pass 20:52:08 <frosch123> Samu: http://www.meva.at/global/img/all/presse/72dpi/08_11_24-Wasserstrassenkreuzung_Minden-Foto_1-RGB-5626.jpg 20:52:26 <frosch123> there is water on the top 20:52:53 <Samu> scary thought, so close to electric post 20:53:01 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:53:03 <frosch123> what? lol 20:53:17 *** tycoondemon2 [~ashnohoe@D97BA885.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:53:31 <frosch123> better install an umbrella at those lamps :) 20:53:36 <frosch123> in case it is raining 20:53:44 *** Mek_ [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd 20:53:56 <Samu> oh :\ 20:54:06 <Taede> if water from the canal/river reaches the electric line, the electric system is what i'd be worried about least 20:54:11 <frosch123> seriously, if that breaks you have other issues :p 20:54:24 <frosch123> there is a lot of water in a canal 20:54:24 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97BA885.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:54:31 <frosch123> enough to flood your town likely 20:54:38 <Taede> and a lot of stones keeping it up 20:54:42 <Rubidium> if the amount of water leaking out of the aqueduct is so large that is exceeds the massive rainstorms under which the catenary still has to work, then... there'll be more problems than just some shorting of catenary 20:55:26 <Rubidium> it might actually be seen as a 'safety' system; shutting down rail traffic before it's fully flooded, but only if it leaks exactly above the catenary 20:56:24 *** tneo [~tneo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:56:25 <Rubidium> I'd be more scared of foot bridges and morons trying to piss on the catenary than aqueducts 20:56:59 <Rubidium> *queue mythbusters episode* ;) 20:57:33 <frosch123> there is bridge over a railtrack in my town 20:57:47 <frosch123> it has glass "walls" at the sides 20:58:04 <frosch123> which for some reason earthened quite solidly 20:58:09 <frosch123> *are 20:58:09 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:58:58 <frosch123> no idea whether static loads on glass would be likely near catenary 20:59:58 *** tneo [~tneo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:00:33 <Rubidium> I guess it's precautionary 21:01:15 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:01:15 <Rubidium> in case a catenary breaks and is tossed into the glass 21:02:12 <Samu> is cargo distribution disabling the subsidies? 21:02:38 <frosch123> yes 21:03:30 <Samu> woah, there is a huge difference in profit with this enabled 21:04:25 <Samu> it's only 1/6 of the profit 21:04:25 <Samu> poor AI 21:04:29 <Samu> not ready for this 21:09:44 <Samu> does autoclean no vehicles will kick in if the only vehicle that was available in a company is destroyed by another player? 21:12:20 <frosch123> ofc 21:12:37 <frosch123> ottd has no graveyard for vehicles to remember who murdered them 21:13:00 <Samu> unfair 21:13:15 <frosch123> does it matter? 21:13:34 <Samu> well, not much if the player doesn't come back 21:14:03 <frosch123> puberty is the phase between realizing that life is unfair, and realizing that that is not necessarily bad 21:14:09 <frosch123> or something like that 21:15:20 <Samu> there's pink on my server, he only got a bus now 21:19:26 <frosch123> well, he'll use a tank newgrf next time 21:19:32 <frosch123> and go train hunting 21:28:28 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:28:38 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 21:28:51 <Eddi|zuHause> we should make a newgrf property for that :p 21:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "structural integrity" 21:29:21 <Taede> rv_crashes_train instead of other way around? 21:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> something like that 21:29:53 <Eddi|zuHause> modern lightweight DMUs are frequently destroyed on hitting cars 21:31:48 <Samu> i posted this earlier today, wondering if it's useful for anything http://i.imgur.com/jgJfTDH.png 21:32:45 <Samu> i was asking for a way to customize empty loaded trains a bit better 21:32:50 <frosch123> a sheep flock is enough to derail a highspeed train 21:32:53 <Samu> for realistic acceleration 21:33:26 <frosch123> customizable realism sounds cool 21:34:36 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34:42 <Samu> for early engine models, realistic acceleration is too good 21:34:54 <Samu> even with weight x3 and steepness 10% 21:35:09 <frosch123> use a vehicle newgrf then 21:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: only in tunnels :p 21:35:21 <Samu> if I adjust these a bit more, it becomes a bit off-balanced for whenever the trains are full loaded 21:35:52 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: true, there are no level crossings inside tunnels in ottd 21:36:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: that assumes that "original" is any kind of useful reference value? 21:36:37 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has joined #openttd 21:36:45 <Samu> yes, but i want to stop using original, I want a similar approach using realistic 21:37:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: that's a nice graph, but it doesn't say there is any actual problem 21:37:45 <Samu> thanks, i have more 21:37:53 <frosch123> we should ottd turn into a pure game platform 21:38:08 <frosch123> remove default climates, default vehicles, default industries, ... 21:38:11 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: like minigames and stuff? 21:38:18 <frosch123> only allow adding stuff via grf 21:38:45 <frosch123> then people would stop comparing stuff 21:38:59 <Samu> let me find the full loaded graph 21:39:02 <Samu> sec 21:39:19 <frosch123> resp. use the comparison result for choosing, instead of as a reason to change 21:39:38 <Samu> here - http://i.imgur.com/3WeC6YE.png 21:40:03 *** DanMacK [~0a0a6574@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:41:47 <Samu> then i also have the sum of all days all engines made using a set of settings 21:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: let me stop you right there and tell you that the last time we changed realistic acceleration to be less effective, we got a large number of complaints that people's savegames were unplayable now 21:42:03 <Samu> :( 21:42:31 <Samu> just change the default for new openttd installations then, I guess 21:42:45 <Samu> or nevermind 21:44:38 <Samu> this graph here adds all days on an example of a pure straight line with no cliffs: http://i.imgur.com/UTbGRu3.png 21:45:53 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:46:13 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i have rarely seen a less meaningful statistic... 21:46:13 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 21:46:18 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i have rarely seen a less meaningful statistic... 21:46:47 <Rubidium> you know realistic acceleration was meant to stop trains from dropping their speed a large amount when going up one tile height level and to prevent them from going at 640 km/h through a 90 degree corner? 21:46:47 <Samu> my last graphic i want to show: http://i.imgur.com/oaWTokq.png 21:47:24 <Rubidium> neither of these scenario's is covered in your test, as such... I'd concur with Eddi's conclusion 21:47:29 <Samu> that's full load on the real-game example from the other graph 21:47:57 <Samu> there are no 90 degrees because it is forced as game setting 21:48:04 <Samu> but there are a few turns 21:48:18 <Samu> i can provide savegame if u want 21:48:33 <Samu> do you? 21:48:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: for "realistic acceleration", everything is a curve that has two turns in the same direction within one train length 21:48:44 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 21:50:01 <Rubidium> Samu: since it's a setting it's not forced 21:50:24 <Rubidium> but besides that, two close 45 degree corners can make a 90 degree corner as well 21:50:51 <Samu> ah I see, I believe there's a few of those 21:51:18 <Samu> there's also one uphill that is harder to go 21:51:25 <Samu> takes 2 tiles 21:51:35 <Samu> not adjacent, but for the whole composite 21:52:41 <Rubidium> anyhow, those two changes are why the acceleration model is called realistic; it's more realistic than the original one. Later TE got added 21:52:59 <Rubidium> in any case, neither acceleration is 100% realistic 21:53:21 <Rubidium> a) a train doesn't take days to accelerate to max speed 21:53:34 <Rubidium> b) a train doesn't take hundreds of kilometers to accelerate to max speed 21:53:59 <Rubidium> c) a (fast) train doesn't take a few hundred meters to accelerate to max speed 21:54:23 <Rubidium> d) a train doesn't stop instantly 21:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause> e) a train's acceleration is actually affected by weather and stuff 21:55:32 * Rubidium was just writing something along those lines 21:55:36 <Samu> it was a nice research for me anyway, I was looking for the equivalent combination, pretty much just to say that realistic x2 with 10% freight cargo is the best approach to simulate original difficult 21:55:49 <Eddi|zuHause> f) a train's max speed is defined by its braking power more than its acceleration power 21:56:19 <Eddi|zuHause> especially downhill 21:56:26 <Rubidium> pff... trains go at the speed of light 21:56:27 <Samu> the only problem is that there's not much customization for empty-loaded trains going downhill 21:56:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: remember that patch that removed max speed from realistic acceleration? 21:56:52 <Rubidium> (for some observers) 21:57:18 <Rubidium> not really, but sounds like infinispeed 21:57:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: if the observers are light particles, then yes 21:57:28 <Rubidium> or close to it 21:59:13 <Rubidium> hmm... time for bed 21:59:16 <Rubidium> night 22:13:46 <Samu> heh i just noticed i missed T.I.M lol 22:13:55 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:05 <Samu> doesn't matter 22:17:08 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009086.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:29:39 <Wolf01> 'night 22:29:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:34:23 *** DanMacK [~0a0a6574@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:50:13 *** DanMacK [~0a0a6574@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:54:30 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:54:33 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 22:57:37 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:00:20 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-28-120.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:08:54 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B995.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:16 <Samu> can river tiles become indestructible one day? 23:10:01 <Samu> treat them like unmovable objects? 23:10:08 <Samu> much like lighthouse tiles 23:11:41 <Eddi|zuHause> if you implement it... 23:12:20 <Samu> oh :( 23:12:25 <Samu> I guess not 23:13:23 <planetmaker> it's open source and patches can be accepted 23:14:40 *** supermop [~daniel_er@d110-33-173-77.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:15:16 <Samu> who invented rivers for the map generator? 23:16:30 <Samu> indestructible river tiles can be bad for locks 23:17:07 <Samu> unless the map generator could generate them rivers a bit different 23:17:35 <Eddi|zuHause> you can always reroute the river by canals 23:17:54 <planetmaker> Samu, did you ever build locks on a river and destroy it again? 23:18:12 <Samu> yes 23:18:34 <Samu> it keeps the river tiles 23:19:26 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, how about some smooth jazz? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDvt5q6bt1s 23:19:56 *** Haube1 [~michi@37-4-206-39-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 23:19:59 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:28 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has joined #openttd 23:21:10 <Samu> just tried, the river is still a river 23:21:29 <Samu> not a water tile owned by me 23:22:24 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:22:39 <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't like smooth jazz, maybe this is more to your liking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6tKZ-cg4RI 23:22:44 *** Haube [~michi@37-4-140-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:25:35 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-0-12-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 23:31:59 *** Haube1 [~michi@37-4-206-39-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:40:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:41:15 <Samu> changing game settings in the middle of a server makes everyone confused, lolol 23:43:29 <Samu> does weight multiplier also apply to trucks? nevermind, I will check it out 23:43:40 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-182-195-245.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:44:26 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 23:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> why would a setting that says "freight train" apply to trucks? 23:47:06 <Samu> ^_^ 23:48:36 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:48:44 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:50:51 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:50 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-182-195-245.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]