Log for #openttd on 9th May 2014:
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00:42:15  <Samu> do you mean have the load % bar at the status line instead of window title?
00:44:03  <Samu> it was supposed to be a quick way to see how much is loaded while traveling, that's the difference - no need to head into the details sub-window
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00:58:21  <DabuYu> Samu: instead of the complete window title color, how about a little bar similar as how is done in the stations list?
00:58:21  <DabuYu>
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00:59:04  <DabuYu> I like the idea
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04:16:12  <Flygon> Feels so weird having a 17xx game...
04:16:22  <Flygon> No trains makes for a waaaaay different bulk freight game
04:16:25  <Flygon> So much river focus!
04:24:24  <Supercheese> No wagonways?
04:24:41  <Supercheese> I figure those would be almost mandatory in the 1700s
04:26:05  <Supercheese> Also, I coded a Montgolfier balloon, you could have your 18th century aircraft travel booming :P
04:26:38  <Supercheese> Although I don't think I ever released that particular .grf
04:27:00  <Flygon> :P
04:27:07  <Flygon> No wagonways
04:27:14  <Flygon> Not the right GRFs installed, sorry :P
04:27:27  <Flygon> As appealing as horses as locomotives is :P
04:33:25  <Flygon> Oh, eer
04:33:30  <Flygon> You mean road based ones, don'tcha
04:33:47  <Flygon> Issue with that is, is low capacity with eGRVTS x.x
04:33:47  <Supercheese> No, I meant railtype
04:33:53  <Supercheese> Wagonway grf
04:34:00  <Flygon> Ah, gotcha
04:34:03  <Supercheese> although IIRC it had some broken stats
04:34:18  <Supercheese> i.e. horses would never go above 1 mph
04:34:29  <Supercheese> unless you had Original accel model
04:34:37  <Flygon> That's a bit of a dealbreaker
04:38:08  <Supercheese> yeah it was issueful
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10:32:12  <Flygon> Whelp
10:32:14  <Flygon> More ships than RVs
10:32:19  <Flygon> The year is 1775
10:32:42  <Flygon> Cannot WAIT for trains
10:36:35  <peter1139> Got horse & cart too?
10:37:19  <Flygon> peter1139: Yeah
10:37:23  <Flygon> But it's not good enough
10:37:25  <Flygon> Low loads
10:37:45  <peter1139>
10:38:42  <Flygon> eGRVTS doesn't consider horses as strong as humans
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11:47:09  <andythenorth> bad andythenorth
11:48:15  <peter1139> Yes
11:48:36  <andythenorth> what are the criteria by which patches are selected for inclusion in trunk?
11:48:40  <andythenorth> is there voting?
11:48:44  <andythenorth> is there a committee?
11:48:50  <andythenorth> are there minutes?
11:48:56  <andythenorth> can I submit a memorandum?
11:51:00  <peter1139> Does it interest a dev?
11:51:13  <peter1139> It's certainly no democracy.
11:52:12  <Xaroth|Work> it involves lots of bribery
11:52:16  <Xaroth|Work> or smooth talking
11:53:17  <peter1139> Obviously a patch for a bugfix is fairly likely.
11:55:04  <Flygon> Xaroth: Now, now, this isn't FA
11:56:08  <Xaroth|Work> Flygon: FA?
11:56:30  <andythenorth> peter1139: obviously we prioritise including a patch if someone repetitively whines rudely about it in the forums, including in other unrelated threads?
11:56:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i've had patches sit around idly for a year and then suddenly being commited with no warning
11:56:57  <andythenorth> I mean it’s not a democracy, but acting like a twat definitely increases the chance, right?
11:57:17  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i can't tell if you're being sarcastic
11:57:36  <Flygon> Xaroth: Long story
11:57:37  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I need an emoticon :P
11:58:06  <Xaroth|Work> Flygon: no tl;dr version?
11:58:18  <Flygon> Nope
11:58:18  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if you were forced to gamble €5000 on it, do you think I am being sarcastic?  You could get Bayesian about it :P
11:58:36  <Flygon> tl;dr furries
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12:25:50  <peter1139> Well sometimes acting like a twat gets you commit rights...
12:25:53  <peter1139> Oh, he left.
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13:06:37  <Eddi|zuHause> how do you edit .lnk files in wine?
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14:25:42  <Samu> which settings for cargo distribution should I try?
14:25:49  <Samu> symetric, asymetric?
14:26:00  <Samu> im gonna host a server with this
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16:45:58  <Samu> What is .lnk file? The LNK file extension is used for files that represent Windows shortcut to a program installed on computer.
16:47:28  <peter1139> ...
16:48:18  <Samu> yeah, 4 hours late answer, sorry
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16:54:22  <Samu> asymmetric cargo dist, anybody wants to join?
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16:57:33  <peter1139> He wasn't asking what a .lnk file was...
16:58:33  <Phreeze> what's a lnk file ?
16:58:39  * Phreeze 's out
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17:00:26  <Samu> edit a .lnk file?
17:00:48  <Samu> it's a shortcut, right-click then properties
17:01:00  <Phreeze> ^^
17:01:04  <Phreeze> who was asking btw ?
17:01:13  <Samu> it was zuHause
17:01:31  <Phreeze> eddi ? i'm sure he knows what it is
17:01:56  <Phreeze> restarting pc...
17:01:56  <Samu> 14:06] <Eddi|zuHause> how do you edit .lnk files in wine?
17:02:03  <Phreeze> in WINE <--
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17:02:25  <Samu> isn't that windows running on linux?
17:02:33  <planetmaker> not exactly
17:03:34  <Eddi|zuHause> well obviously i did try right-clicking...
17:03:40  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't work
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17:03:50  <Phreeze> re
17:04:00  <Eddi|zuHause> said something like "no property window for this file type"
17:04:24  <Rubidium> can't wine run a real explorer?
17:04:54  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, only tried wine's explorer
17:05:03  <Phreeze> wines explorer is weird
17:05:05  <Samu> on windows those files are special
17:05:16  <Phreeze> it's shit anyway,they could improve the interface so much, but they fail
17:05:18  <Phreeze> for years now
17:05:48  <Samu> their properties won't show the file details, but it edits it
17:08:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. it's shit. but i guess nobody ever uses it anyway
17:11:26  <Samu>
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17:12:48  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: might editting the file as UTF-16 in a text editor work? Or does that break too much?
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17:13:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: there's binary stuff in there
17:13:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i tried a hex editor but it didn't work as intended
17:13:59  <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm too lazy to research the file format
17:14:15  <planetmaker> that might be a problem in this case :)
17:17:41  <Samu>
17:17:43  <Samu> this?
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17:45:39  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26572 /trunk/src/lang (4 files in 2 dirs) (2014-05-09 17:45:28 UTC)
17:45:40  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:41  <DorpsGek> japanese - 31 changes by guppy
17:45:42  <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 3 changes by Stabilitronas
17:45:43  <DorpsGek> persian - 5 changes by 100ra
17:45:44  <DorpsGek> slovak - 6 changes by Milsa
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17:54:07  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i was expecing there was already a tool for it
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18:27:12  <andythenorth> o/
18:27:24  <planetmaker> \o
18:27:35  <andythenorth> where is cake?
18:30:29  <Alberth> o/
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18:31:22  <Samu> wow i just installed dosbox, it features a nice image scaler
18:33:34  <planetmaker> openttd also has an in-built image scaler ;)
18:34:33  <Alberth> arhg, no transport  for paper :(
18:34:50  <Alberth> still with this broken newgrf combination
18:34:52  <planetmaker> oi :(
18:35:18  <Alberth> how am I ever going to win from nocargoal if it cheats like that :p
18:39:11  <Samu> side by side, TTDLX scaled vs OpenTTD:
18:40:41  * planetmaker discovers diff.showfunc = True
18:41:00  <Samu> that's the kind of scaler that would rock on OpenTTD
18:43:03  <andythenorth> Alberth: add newgrfs to your running game? o_O
18:44:35  <planetmaker> what trainset do you use, Alberth ?
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18:45:33  <Alberth> still the same setup, opengfx+industries and default trains
18:46:16  <Alberth> newgrf setups have a way of sticking around :p
18:47:33  <andythenorth> have I missed anything on the internet?
18:47:43  <andythenorth> I _think_ I’ve seen it all
18:47:47  <andythenorth> which means
time for work
18:48:16  <andythenorth> nothing useful in forums
18:48:49  <Samu> can you ask the dosbox guys to use their scaler on openttd?
18:48:57  <Samu> if it's possible at all
18:49:59  <Phreeze> i want the TTO interface gfx
18:50:10  <Phreeze> always preferred them to the flat DX design
18:50:36  <Phreeze> samu: they use different scalers, as e.g the snes emulators do too
18:50:42  <Phreeze> like supersai, etc
18:51:24  <Samu> Possible values: none, normal2x, normal3x, advmame2x, advmame3x, advinterp2x, advinterp3x, hq2x, hq3x, 2xsai, super2xsai, supereagle, tv2x, tv3x, rgb2x, rgb3x, scan2x, scan3x.
18:51:33  <Samu> i put hq3x
18:52:15  <Phreeze> the hq are the best ojnes
18:52:28  <Phreeze> years ago, with a pentium2 400, you couldnt chose those^^
18:52:34  <Phreeze> cpu wasnt good enough xD
18:53:17  <andythenorth> why don’t you just use the original base set?
18:53:20  <planetmaker> Alberth, opengfx+industries w/o a trainset can end up badly... as you discovered. Some cargoes may be moved around
18:53:34  <planetmaker> thus default vehicles might fail to provide support for all
18:53:51  <Alberth> planetmaker: it does, both in temperate and in arctic :p
18:54:11  <Alberth> I thought I got rid of the broken setup, but apparently not
18:54:48  * Alberth wonders to code a warning message for it
18:55:57  <Phreeze> base set doesnt modify those windows andy
18:56:53  <planetmaker> that's part of newgrf utopia, Alberth :)
18:57:00  <planetmaker> of the possible utopia, though
18:57:24  <andythenorth> Phreeze: oh you mean the window chrome?  Not the icons?
18:57:25  <Alberth> well, /me needs it now :p
18:58:00  <Phreeze> the windows that pop up if you follow a train etc
18:58:30  <Phreeze>
18:58:31  <Phreeze> those
19:08:25  <andythenorth> Alberth: playing ottd to get GS ideas? o_O
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19:09:28  <Alberth> no, mostly because I don't know what to code next
19:10:04  <Alberth> but I was thinking about making subsidies possible
19:10:36  <Alberth> ie transport of cargo X from Y to Z
19:10:45  <Alberth> don't think you can do that yet
19:13:52  <Samu> oh, do you want ideas?
19:14:18  <Alberth> if you also provide an implementation, sure
19:14:54  <Samu> implementation?
19:17:17  <Samu> a scaler
19:18:10  <Alberth>
19:18:31  <Alberth> why would you want to scale graphics?  it looks bad
19:19:08  <Samu> doesn't look too bad
19:19:38  <Samu> might look blurry at first, but it's easy to get used to
19:19:53  <Samu> and it's just much better for my eyes
19:20:24  <planetmaker> Alberth, OpenTTD does that all the time when people use 2x and 4x zoom
19:21:00  <Samu> did you see the printscreen i posted?
19:21:05  <Samu> it looked great
19:21:23  <Alberth> planetmaker: silly people :p
19:21:34  <planetmaker> :D
19:21:42  <Alberth> buying a large screen, and then using 2x / 4x zoom :p
19:21:51  <Samu> that zoom doesn't zoom buttons or mouse cursor
19:21:54  <planetmaker> Samu, the two screens don' show the same scene. Thus it's an ill comparison
19:22:08  <planetmaker> Alberth, yes, I confess guilty :P
19:22:13  <Alberth> Samu: install big gui newgrf
19:22:27  <planetmaker> (though I don't need the big gui for that really)
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19:40:23  <__ln___>
19:41:24  <Alberth> lol
19:44:21  <peter1139> Pom te pom...
19:44:57  <peter1139> Re-scaling...
19:45:12  <peter1139> I did implement a scaling algorithm once, but it looked shitty.
19:46:22  <peter1139>
19:46:36  <peter1139>
19:50:55  <pthagnar> i like those rescaling algorithms
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19:52:17  <pthagnar> that is a little weird though
19:55:13  <Samu> sorry, had to do something afk. Isn't it preferrible a scaler to the entire program, not parts of it?
19:55:54  <Samu> is it difficult to implement?
19:56:48  <pthagnar> ez10real is quite good though
19:57:34  <pthagnar> better at 75% scale, though
19:57:36  <andythenorth> I like to call it ‘eye-breaking pseudo watercolour blur’
19:58:48  <Samu> what do you call the window where openttd puts all visual content? framebuffer?
20:01:11  <Alberth> a window?
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20:02:09  <Samu> yeah... I guess
20:05:23  <Samu> the big gui newgrf doesn't have some resized icons, it shows the small version instead
20:05:50  <Taede> main viewport?
20:06:00  <Taede> evening
20:06:26  <Samu> the entire view, not just the world
20:06:46  <Samu> icons, text, buttons, cursor, windows sizes
20:07:56  <Samu> the goal list button doesn't have a big version
20:08:53  <Alberth> feel free to make and submit one
20:09:40  <Samu> why?
20:10:34  <planetmaker> obviously so that the biggui newgrf then can ship with big versions of those buttons, too?
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20:11:33  <Samu> i don't like the biggui. if it could also attempt to resize text and much of the rest, it would be sensible to use it
20:11:42  <Samu> but the way it is right now, only part is resized :/
20:12:28  <peter1139> Well you can set the text size yourself...
20:12:44  <Samu> could the newgrf do that as well?
20:12:53  <peter1139> No, NewGRF cannot set your font size.
20:13:01  <planetmaker> oh, they actually could
20:13:14  <planetmaker> but might look funky
20:13:20  <Samu> some dropdown items with the biggui are misplaced
20:13:35  <planetmaker> some error reports are vague
20:13:55  <Samu> ok
20:15:40  <Samu>
20:15:50  <Samu> sort by ..., it is missing the arrow
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20:16:13  <Samu> the new dot button between minimize and X is small
20:16:44  <Samu> rather out of propotions text and window sizes
20:17:03  <Alberth> so fix your font?
20:17:05  <Samu> I don't like it, I think it's not a good idea to scale individual parts
20:17:15  <Samu> but scale the whole thing
20:17:30  <Alberth> make a "set font" patch for all platforms that we have?
20:17:37  <Alberth> we'd like that
20:18:15  <Alberth> as well as a *whole* lot of users
20:19:03  <Samu> why not scale it like dosbox do?
20:20:03  <Alberth> looks *very* bad
20:20:14  <Alberth> all graphic artists will be very unhappy
20:21:10  <Samu> it wouldn't be that bad per se... main issue is to maintain aspect ratio on higher resolution screens
20:22:31  <Alberth> take a high resolution image, scalle it down by a factor 4 horizontal and vertical, and save it
20:22:47  <Alberth> take the scaled down image, scale it up by a factor 4 horizontal and vertical
20:22:58  <Alberth> compare original and scaled versions
20:23:44  <Samu> ah, you mean the zoom feature
20:24:04  <Alberth> how is scale not zoom?
20:24:48  <Alberth> you cannot reconstruct original quality with 1/16 of the original infomation
20:25:02  <Samu> there's no need to scale by that much
20:25:16  <Alberth> likewise, graphic artists will be disgusted if you scale their sprites
20:25:25  <Eddi|zuHause> the MiniIN had several scaling functions
20:25:55  <Samu> if 640x480 is default res for openttd, a x2 size would be 1280x960 - it's enough for many displays
20:25:56  <Eddi|zuHause> but it was on a whole-screen basis, while the extra zoom would need it on a per-sprite basis (which causes issues at borders)
20:26:40  <Alberth> Samu: 2x zoom is still only 1/4th of the information
20:26:41  <Samu> even the zoom would be scalled, that's something I'd happy to live with
20:26:57  <Samu> I don't see it as a problem
20:26:59  <Eddi|zuHause> that sentence makes no sense
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20:28:54  <Samu> alberth did you see my screenshot?
20:29:43  <Samu> why do you hate it? yes, there's blurr, that's not a big of an issue as you make it sound, especially when everythign is sized to the right aspect ratio
20:30:31  * Rubidium wonders what the "scale everything up by a factor 2" is going to yield. It will at least reduce the sharpness of full zoom in sprites at the "current" zoom in level
20:30:59  <Rubidium> after all, you get the 2x zoom sprites, which you scale up with a factor 2 instead of showing the 4x zoom sprites
20:31:08  <Alberth> tell the graphic artists that, they painstakingly decide the colour of each pixel, and you simply make it all blurry, so you cannot seem the colour of each pixel any more
20:31:31  <Alberth> s/seem/see/
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20:32:14  <Samu> it would be a game option, not a newgrf option
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20:33:07  <Samu>
20:33:39  <Eddi|zuHause> even the text is blurry
20:33:50  <Samu> yes, that's fine with me, at least I can read it
20:34:16  <Rubidium> but... why not use the 2x zoom sprites instead of blowing up the 1x zoom sprites?
20:34:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't
20:34:27  <Samu> that dosbox is scaling the original to 1280x960, it's exactly x2
20:35:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: we had that option 5 years ago, and removed it
20:35:59  <Samu> awww why?
20:36:22  <Rubidium> because it was only for one platform
20:36:23  <Eddi|zuHause> because it was stupid, badly implemented, incompatible with some stuff and not supported on all platforms
20:36:48  <Samu> how come? dosbox is multi-platform i believe
20:37:25  <Rubidium> because nobody wrote the code for that one platform where it was implemented to the other platforms
20:38:36  <Eddi|zuHause> one frequent complaint was that people wanted separate scaling for GUI sprites and for map sprites
20:38:53  <Eddi|zuHause> where for the map sprites we now have it in the form of extra zoom levels
20:39:09  <Eddi|zuHause> and for the gui sprites we have it in the form of "big gui" newgrf
20:39:39  <Eddi|zuHause> what's missing is font scaling
20:39:47  <Eddi|zuHause> and a base set which covers all the zoom levels
20:39:53  <Eddi|zuHause> and a GUI for static newgrfs
20:40:03  <Eddi|zuHause> ... and ...
20:40:06  <planetmaker> GUI should eventually get an ingame setting for size. As should font (though you can have the latter via cfg already)
20:40:11  <Alberth> (10:39:47 PM) Eddi|zuHause: and a base set which covers all the zoom levels  <-- zbase?
20:40:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: never actually used that, but it always seemed off style-wise
20:41:37  <Alberth> ah, it needs an extra condition, "usable for Eddi" :)
20:41:58  <planetmaker> :P
20:42:10  <Alberth> I don't like it either btw
20:42:41  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't like opengfx in the first place
20:42:47  <Samu> awww
20:43:37  <Samu> zbase is very nice, but vehicles still move around sprite-based, not fluid movements
20:43:55  <Samu> it's a bit strange to look at it
20:43:58  <Samu> but it's very detailed
20:44:19  *** Mek_ is now known as Mek
20:45:26  <Alberth> zbase is too flat, it looks too computer-generated to me
20:46:28  <Alberth> maybe the effort by lukasz1985 will give a nice result
20:46:35  <Samu> zbase looks really good, with that I mean the graphical details
20:46:44  <Samu> if looking at a static image from zbase, it's great
20:46:58  <Samu> then you start seeing the vehicles move and it's alll.... meh
20:47:47  <Alberth> ever compared the original base set and zbase   (the same picture at the same size)?
20:48:09  <Alberth> zbase is very much lacking in the fine details
20:48:31  <Alberth> it's all flat surfaces
20:50:08  <Samu> lacks the 3D aspect
20:50:08  <Samu> it's isometric
20:50:37  <Phreeze> it's too plastic for me
20:50:51  <Phreeze> that western style looks awesome, but the author is "away" or so !?
20:52:22  <Alberth> I don't think anything was ever released
20:52:56  <Eddi|zuHause> only a few teaser screenshots/videos
20:53:15  <Phreeze> but they look really awesome
20:53:19  <Phreeze> it's really a pity :(
20:54:09  <planetmaker> yeah, he kinda left, or so it seems
20:54:21  <Eddi|zuHause>
20:54:42  <planetmaker> I do have the source for the houses, but...
20:54:57  <Phreeze> did he make ALL the gfx himself ???
20:54:58  <planetmaker> ... not exactly the right to release it
20:55:01  <planetmaker> yes
20:55:06  <Phreeze> they look so perfect
20:55:33  <Phreeze> BadBrett1 year agoin reply to Daniel Dorotík
20:55:33  <Phreeze> It's just me. Hopefully we'll see some kind of release before the end of the year. :-)
20:55:36  <Phreeze> lol
20:55:43  <Phreeze> "this year" is alwas relative ^^
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20:59:08  <Rubidium> also depends on your "centre" that determines the length of a year
21:00:13  <Eddi|zuHause> pherhaps he meant a martian year
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21:00:40  <Rubidium> after all, a year is the amount of time needed to perform one rotation of one celestial body around another celestial body
21:01:57  <Phreeze> Smartass :D
21:01:58  <Eddi|zuHause> like a "solar" year?
21:02:04  <Rubidium> we know that one must be earth, but maybe the other isn't the solar system centre, but the galactic centre
21:02:24  <Rubidium> in which case a year becomes quite long ;)
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21:05:54  <Phreeze> mustnt be earth
21:06:16  <Phreeze> if you take mars as the centre, an earth-year is more (or less..dont know)
21:08:15  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, 'solar year' actually is a well-defined term
21:09:46  <Rubidium> ... but non-constant term
21:11:58  <planetmaker> tropical (or solar) year is actually quite constant. Defining an earth year with a different centre than the Sun will become... a challange
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21:31:10  <andythenorth> night
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21:38:35  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i meant as in the sun revolving around its next higher center of gravity
21:39:17  <planetmaker> that's the galactic year
21:40:00  <planetmaker> which is quite harder to put a number on, but it's in the order of 220 Myr
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23:05:59  <Samu> hey, ttdx company name generator is funny
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23:07:38  <Samu> do you have a list of the generated names by TTDX?
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