Log for #openttd on 29th June 2014:
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00:27:31  *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
00:33:24  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 1000*6/16
00:33:24  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 375
00:40:28  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 1000*6/16/64
00:40:28  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 5.859375
00:56:40  <MTsPony> is there a way to modify a save game or scenario to convert all desert tiles to tropical ones? with a hex editor or such?
01:00:47  <Eddi|zuHause> you can just drag&drop the convert tool over the whole map with a second viewport
01:01:36  <Eddi|zuHause> scroll to one map corner, open a viewport with 'V', scroll to the opposite corner, drag&drop from the main viewport into the other viewport
01:02:05  <Eddi|zuHause> the desert-convert-tool un-desert-ifies with ctrl
01:03:01  <MTsPony> interesting, thanks ill try :)
01:03:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i postulate that any hex-editing method you could come up with will be more elaborate than that :p
01:03:28  <MTsPony> :p
01:03:42  <MTsPony> though, this will also remove pools and stuff right ? :(
01:03:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so
01:04:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not a bulldozer
01:04:17  <MTsPony> well it shouldnt as... yeh what u said
01:05:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never actually used that tool
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01:08:46  <MTsPony> yeh it does unfortunately,:(
01:09:19  <MTsPony> is there a trick to make a tile water again? other then flooding parts,manually?
01:18:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i think something like ctrl+click the canal or river tool
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04:47:46  <ccfreak2k> Also I just realized that I think updating gcc broke my multilib.
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06:39:09  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: we should all do that and bankrupt those companies ;)
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09:15:10  <Alberth> moin, 1st wolf
09:15:30  <Wolf01> hello :D
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13:04:42  <DigitalFox> Good afternoon :)
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13:22:52  <Alberth> o/
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13:49:29  <DigitalFox> What's the originals OpenTTD Fonts? Small: Arial? Medium: Times New Roman? Large:?
13:50:14  <frosch123> neither
13:50:28  <frosch123> they are custom sprite fonts from the baseset
13:53:01  <DigitalFox> No way of increasing it's size?
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13:53:38  <Eddi|zuHause> no, you can only increase size of system fonts, not of the builtin font
13:53:43  <DigitalFox> ok
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15:44:17  <trendynick> I browsed the wiki & I thought to note & &
15:46:39  <frosch123> are you sure about the channel?
15:47:21  <DigitalFox> I was about to ask the same question :\ But then I noticed: FIFE stands for Flexible Isometric Free Engine and is a cross platform game creation framework.
15:47:35  <trendynick> yes
15:47:42  <frosch123> afaik it is mainly used in unknown horizons
15:47:46  <DigitalFox> Maybe he's refering to the use of FIFE on OpenTTD
15:47:47  <frosch123> which is not exactly openttd :p
15:47:58  <trendynick> only the wiki... the rest is not revelant
15:51:34  <DigitalFox> Not directly to you trendynick, but sometimes here and in the forum I read people suggesting rewriting or adapting massive parts of OTTD to another language, or framework, or etc.. Do people realize even just a bit the amount of work, time and energy that requires?
15:52:44  <frosch123> resp. that it would be a different game :p
15:53:33  <trendynick> I did not even played openttd... but as I wrote this is only about the wiki
15:53:35  <frosch123> DigitalFox: anyway, i think trendy is linking to a wiki-enhancement suggestion from fife, which e thinks is applicable to ottd wiki as well
15:53:47  <frosch123> though i do not understand why
15:54:54  <DigitalFox> trendynick: So if you don't/ever played openttd how are you aware of it?
15:55:31  <trendynick> documentation of a game is the same as metadata activity
15:56:40  <trendynick> i do not play - not compatible? - tyccon genre
15:57:45  <Eddi|zuHause> we have a wiki, what's your point?
15:58:39  <trendynick> those modification apply to openttd wiki, too
15:59:02  <Alberth> trendynick: the only relevant part of "tycoon" in OpenTTD is "you have lots and lots and lots of money". So much, it is not interesting to play for making money
15:59:26  <frosch123> the ottd wiki is mainly the manual. all other information on it are either personal, or unmaintained cruft that noone bothers to delete
15:59:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i find it impossible to see anything of relevance in the links
15:59:54  <trendynick> I am not that much of a gamer, maybe I'll play it later (as with other gaming activity)
16:00:28  <trendynick> wait to close some browser windows...
16:00:49  <frosch123> so, you are a free agent, who offers random projects recommendations on wiki restructuring :p
16:00:55  <Alberth> frosch123: some of that cruft is considered to be "archive", which makes it somewhat hazardous to remove old stuff :)
16:00:58  <DigitalFox> frosch123: lol
16:01:01  <frosch123> what do you take per page?
16:01:17  <Rubidium> Alberth: that's what is for ;)
16:01:47  <frosch123> Alberth: problem is, that esp. the dev stuff on it is mostly wrong/outdated, and every now and then some unlucky fool tries to update it
16:02:34  <trendynick> openttd or fifengine?
16:02:49  <frosch123> trendynick: in case you wondered, ottd does not use fife
16:03:25  <trendynick> repeating: documentation of a game is the same as metadata activity
16:04:09  <Alberth> trendynick: yes, but what is the point?
16:04:16  <Alberth> we don't understand what you want
16:04:35  <frosch123> Alberth: considering the main topics on main page: "manual" is fine, "development" is bollocks, "graphics development" is bollocks, "help with docs" ok fine, "help" is already on community page, "player resouces" either silly stuff from people who do not use bananas, or already on community
16:04:35  <Alberth> or what you try to tell us
16:04:52  <trendynick> eg.
16:05:24  <frosch123> Alberth: oh, wait, actualyl the "todo for releases" is something i actually use :p
16:05:33  <Alberth> trendynick: what should I learn from that page?
16:06:19  <trendynick> use of templates (see source)
16:06:31  <Rubidium> frosch123: except that the release section is horribly outdated ;)
16:07:07  <Alberth> trendynick: why should I learn about templates?  I know what they are
16:07:58  <frosch123> someone already figure out what "metadata activity" is?
16:08:02  * Rubidium wonders where this is leading... anyhow, "metadata activity" seems to be dead (last modification in 2002)
16:08:15  <trendynick> standardized look (productivity improvement)
16:08:30  <trendynick> or easier on new users... less questions
16:08:45  <Alberth> trendynick: not possible, we already have 0 questions
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16:09:20  <trendynick> then wiki's traffic is too low
16:09:38  <trendynick> or usefulness
16:09:48  <Rubidium> if you can't count the questions, then you got different issues
16:11:28  <trendynick> "metadata activity" activity that only involves metadata, independent of data (but also independent of other metadata use)
16:12:31  <Rubidium> but yes, an average of ~20k hits an hours is too low
16:14:50  <Rubidium> oh... metadata activity got superseded by semantic web activity about 13.5 years ago
16:15:44  <Rubidium> and even semantic web activity is already "dead" given the fact that they state the page about it has been frozen
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16:17:33  <trendynick> collapsable tables on openttd's wiki?
16:18:00  <Rubidium> also I wonder how templates will improve the openttd equivalent of fife's release packaging page
16:20:57  <trendynick> Rubidium:  I'm still processing [19:09:45] <Rubidium> if you can't count the questions, then you got different issues
16:20:57  <trendynick> for last one...
16:27:20  <trendynick> I do not find what openttd use similar to
16:31:27  <Rubidium> what's the point of collapsing the table in the developer activity page?
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16:32:10  <LordAro> also incorrect:
16:32:14  <trendynick> I did not meant those together...
16:32:32  <Rubidium> also... why are the HTML entity codes for the activity symbols before the table? That "page editor" help makes no sense to any normal user
16:32:43  <Rubidium> also... what's the definition of retired and/or inactive?
16:32:55  <Rubidium> or semi-active for that matter
16:33:42  <Rubidium> now... sortable tables... that's more useful than collapsible tables
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16:33:56  <LordAro> Rubidium, for ottd, it's as listed in the readme, iirc
16:33:57  <trendynick> retired will never contribute again, inactive (might contribute again)
16:34:16  <frosch123> so, "retired" means "dead"?
16:34:33  <frosch123> usually we do not know about that
16:34:34  <LordAro> yes.
16:34:38  <LordAro> :p
16:34:50  <Rubidium> but... dead people might still contribute
16:35:19  <frosch123> you mean something like the grandchildren composing a cd with the 100 greatest patches?
16:35:23  <Rubidium> in any case... TrueBrain retired, but he did contribute again
16:35:24  <trendynick> ctrl+F is usually more important than sortable tables, like i wrote in the noted log file spreadsheets is for sorting games data (or custom solution)
16:35:32  <Rubidium> frosch123: exactly ;)
16:35:57  <Rubidium> sorting the developers page on when they joined is quite useful
16:36:14  <LordAro> Rubidium, as i recall, he vetoed an attempt to make him "active" again :p
16:36:22  <trendynick> that is only fif+UH+zero (less than 30 developers always terminology)
16:36:41  <frosch123> Rubidium: it's actually impressive that it sorts the "pre" correctly
16:37:12  <LordAro> frosch123, you're welcome :p
16:37:15  <trendynick> wactually only development environment is usefull, code repository is for code contribution
16:37:29  <frosch123> LordAro: ah, you enteres dom white fake stuff :p
16:37:36  <LordAro> yup :D
16:37:45  <LordAro> found the suggestion somewhere else, iirc
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16:38:43  * LordAro updates the commit count
16:39:38  <Rubidium> the really sad thing about the commit count is the 'fact' that it will take another two years for the r30k party
16:40:46  <frosch123> maybe we should count the lines of irc chat instead
16:41:35  <Rubidium> after all, we'll pass the ⎡25k + (5k/3)⎀ marker soon
16:42:49  <frosch123> like today?
16:42:58  <Rubidium> 63 minutes
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16:43:33  <frosch123> praise the afrikaans translator :)
16:44:23  <LordAro> :D
16:46:03  <LordAro> i have to say, an "environment" column would probably be useful/interesting
16:46:20  <frosch123> what's that?
16:46:28  <Rubidium> can mine say s390?
16:46:47  <frosch123> we changed topic so often in the past hour that i cannot tell :p
16:46:48  <Rubidium> oh... and DOS ;)
16:46:59  <LordAro> Rubidium, yours would be "everything" :p
16:47:15  <trendynick> as you have significantly more resources than switching to github what about
16:47:19  <Rubidium> okay then !OSX
16:47:26  <LordAro> Rubidium, well, quite :)
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16:48:23  <LordAro> a Zuu!
16:48:33  <Zuu> a Lord!
16:48:41  <LordAro> where?!
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16:56:42  <Rubidium> Orion Spur?
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17:11:41  <trendynick> also everything used on that wiki is for compatibility with github (eg. tables copy-pasted on github are static; UH transition was then)
17:11:53  <trendynick> planet?
17:12:14  <planetmaker> g'evening
17:12:23  <Alberth> evenink planetmaker
17:12:28  <frosch123> planetmaker: did you play with some physics again?
17:12:41  <frosch123> there are some serious interferences with some parallel universe today
17:12:52  <planetmaker> of course. I tweaked some constants. Did the universe explode or collapse?
17:13:01  <frosch123> otherwise i blame cern
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17:13:44  <planetmaker> (is there some reference / reason you ask?)
17:14:18  <frosch123> apparently ottd is hosted on github, uses the fife engine, and has the resouces to pay a free agent to reformat the wiki
17:14:37  <planetmaker> cool
17:14:40  <trendynick> also blame for not scrolling foward!
17:15:14  <planetmaker> I skimmed backlog briefly and didn't understand a word, tbh. The actual topic of the discussion still eludes me
17:15:22  * Alberth wonders about the shortlist of wiki stuff to delete
17:15:22  <frosch123> exactly :)
17:15:36  <frosch123> planetmaker: that's all the state of everyone participating in it :)
17:15:50  <planetmaker> kk. Then I don't feel bad about it anymore :)
17:16:32  <Alberth> planetmaker:  not yet used to shifting of parallel universes ?   :)
17:17:00  <planetmaker> I'm afraid, no. That's only a feature in an experimental branch and should not yet have been released to general public
17:17:07  <planetmaker> due to possible interferences...
17:17:10  <trendynick> the 3 links were to be read without my intervention (browsing random *reverted* contribution from wiki)
17:17:32  <trendynick>  the 1st message
17:18:00  <Rubidium> Alberth: <- stuff to delete ;)
17:19:01  * trendynick excuses his "contribution"
17:19:27  <planetmaker> frosch123, you confused me even more :)
17:19:51  <planetmaker> trendynick, as a newcomer to the discussion, what do you try to 'sell' or tell us?
17:20:09  * Alberth thinks fifi wiki engine
17:20:12  <Rubidium> Alberth: or rather I guess
17:20:43  <planetmaker> what's a "wiki engine"?
17:20:50  <trendynick> wiki redesign in a lot more words (because I do not have time to be involved in it, only some conversation)
17:22:06  <trendynick> on the "marketing material" one I had plenty of request for deletion...
17:22:38  <Alberth> planetmaker: a piece of software, that allows display and editing of wiki pages through the world wide web interface
17:23:02  <trendynick> & bla bla
17:23:26  <frosch123> seriously, are you aware this is not the channel for fife nor open horizons?
17:23:48  <trendynick> I was being ironic
17:23:57  <planetmaker> eh... indeed I fail to see any relevance wrt OpenTTD
17:24:06  <planetmaker> can you frame me in where you see that, trendynick ?
17:24:36  <trendynick> irony/design/... ?
17:25:23  <frosch123> did you read the story about the bot that passed the turing test?
17:25:36  <planetmaker> I did with great joy
17:25:48  * trendynick will write a pastebin link...
17:27:03  <planetmaker> trendynick, I think if you want to work on our wiki, sure, go ahead. If you want to suggest to buy some service for wiki, not happening.
17:27:29  <trendynick> it was irony, anything is gpl/epl compatible
17:27:54  <trendynick> & no price
17:28:13  <planetmaker> so, can you answer the simple question "what do you want to sell or tell us"?
17:28:35  <planetmaker> by not pasting a link, but explaining it in a few words here?
17:30:23  <trendynick> ~10m ago: wiki redesign in a lot more words (because I do not have time to be involved in it, only some conversation)
17:31:07  <Rubidium> so the whole conversation is completely pointless
17:31:29  <planetmaker> trendynick, and what's the point of the re-design?
17:31:43  <planetmaker> a re-design without a purpose or gain is pointless and tedious
17:31:44  <trendynick> minimal redesign
17:31:54  <Alberth> get less questions then 0   :)
17:31:58  <Rubidium> I won't do X, but you should do X and I will spend a lot of time telling you that you should do X
17:32:32  <trendynick> mediawiki changes are the same, that is its selling point
17:32:36  <planetmaker> I guess we get the questions here and occasionally some by IRC
17:32:45  <planetmaker> But I guess we can handle that. And there's forums, of course
17:33:23  <trendynick> they can be found on the "marketing material" if you want to see it as that (it is mostly the same)
17:33:48  <planetmaker> so, what is lacking and what would be the changes?
17:34:06  <trendynick> *(the code it is mostly the same)
17:34:41  <planetmaker> the user-visible changes, I mean
17:34:48  <planetmaker> as only that matters de-facto
17:35:42  <trendynick> yes, those are the only one that matter <- this is all about (time & productivity)
17:36:32  <trendynick> for users
17:36:47  <Alberth> trendynick: I think you have a very wrong picture of our goal of the wiki
17:37:05  <trendynick> for administrators of metadata
17:37:17  <Rubidium> so... now 6 people have already "wasted" 2 hours each, together with the amount of work for the wiki I doubt there will be a break even point soon for the amount of time we would need to spend on people not finding stuff on the wiki
17:37:20  <trendynick> code repositories and relevant sections for developers
17:37:52  <planetmaker> trendynick, that's a lot of links... and they don't seem to answer my question. Can you? What will change with out wiki? What has to change to improve its usefulness for our users?
17:38:09  <Alberth> Rubidium: It's good entertainment while having dinner :)
17:38:22  <planetmaker> *nom nom*. Indeed eating right now
17:38:39  <trendynick> if it is only for users: end of discussion (it is a waste of time! It will always be!)
17:38:57  <planetmaker> our wiki needs minimal administration
17:39:04  <planetmaker> we can't gain more efficiency there
17:39:15  <Rubidium> even then, most of the wiki is maintained by users that are NOT on IRC
17:39:44  <trendynick> if minimal administration does not means scripts = minimal usefulness wiki
17:39:52  <planetmaker> we could gain possibly by proper automated cross-linking of different language versions.
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17:43:11  <trendynick> maybe only the developers page should be changed for now with ideas from the other wiki
17:43:27  <planetmaker> what should be on that page?
17:43:36  <planetmaker> and who should put that info there?
17:44:02  <trendynick> build environments, timezone
17:44:08  <planetmaker> (and what's the developer's page?)
17:44:18  <Alberth> unknown, not seen on the IRC channel for about a month   <-- I like that comment, clearly fully up to date :)
17:44:54  <trendynick>
17:45:33  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26667 /trunk/src/lang (afrikaans.txt slovak.txt) (2014-06-29 17:45:25 UTC)
17:45:34  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:35  <trendynick> activity can be scripted by bots from commits
17:45:36  <DorpsGek> afrikaans - 30 changes by mulderpf
17:45:37  <DorpsGek> slovak - 9 changes by Milsa
17:47:11  <planetmaker> anyone?
17:48:06  <trendynick> usefull for new coders, ocasional patch contributors..
17:48:32  <Rubidium> why does it matter for new coders whether I use Windows, Linux or DOS?
17:48:42  * trendynick will not dare to mention testers on free projects
17:50:03  <frosch123> but it matters that "kudr" is assigned to "yapf (pbs)" and planetmaker to "maxosx"
17:50:14  <planetmaker> hmpf :)
17:50:35  <Rubidium> but kudr didn't even make pbs, did he?
17:50:52  <Rubidium> and does planetmaker still use a osx desktop on a daily basis?
17:50:55  <planetmaker> hm, maybe an earlier incarnation? Dunno, was before my time
17:51:11  <Rubidium> the earlier pbs was way before kudr
17:51:35  <planetmaker> pm uses it... but much less than before. I'd need a new OSX one to enjoy using it. It's too laggy
17:52:48  <Rubidium> just like I wonder whether vurlix is really the second most important contributor
17:52:59  <Rubidium> (who's the most important one?)
17:53:23  <planetmaker> you?
17:53:30  <frosch123> or ludde :)
17:53:39  <planetmaker> one or the other
17:53:53  <frosch123> no idea what vurlix actually did, but not being ludde and leaving up to 0.3.2...
17:53:56  * Alberth votes for both
17:54:21  <Eddi|zuHause> KUDr came here with the intention to re-do PBS, and started with rewriting the pathfinder, then he didn't actually get to do PBS
17:54:44  <frosch123> and then someone else came and implemented it for the older pf :p
17:55:13  <Eddi|zuHause> well, we did discontinue NTP in the meantime
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17:57:51  <Rubidium> and OPF
17:58:03  <Rubidium> at least for trains ;)
17:58:39  <LordAro> again, based on readme or what was already there :p
17:59:06  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26668 /branches/1.4 (65 files in 4 dirs) (2014-06-29 17:58:58 UTC)
17:59:07  <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
17:59:08  <DorpsGek> - Fix: Days in dates are not represented by ordinal numbers in all languages [FS#6047]
17:59:09  <DorpsGek> - Language updates
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18:00:08  <trendynick> for game manual, how far from LaTeX generation (both html/wiki & pdf) is the community?
18:00:46  <frosch123> about a lightyear
18:01:04  <planetmaker> yeah, true for most, I guess
18:01:13  <Rubidium> at an as of yet unspecified medium
18:03:03  *** gelignite [] has quit []
18:07:24  <trendynick> the sprite are generated by blender? to me they (only terrain?) appear unintuitive angles (details cropped by algorithm)
18:08:24  <planetmaker> the sprites are hand-drawn or generated by blender or by 3dsx or by gimp scripting or by custom python scripts. Whatever the authors use
18:09:42  <trendynick> overall the look is stable but this seem too obvious
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18:38:50  * frosch123 got too annoyed about the weird contributor list
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18:39:05  <frosch123> i edited the wiki, someone wants to make a diff?
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18:50:13  <planetmaker> oh, diff for src/ ?
18:50:14  <planetmaker> can do
18:50:22  <frosch123> readme and about menu or something
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18:50:59  <frosch123> iirc it uses a completely different layout, including other credits of varying relevance
18:51:09  <planetmaker> I'll see
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19:03:39  <trendynick> the right-mouse pressed is DOS games behaviour or other reason? scrooling to direction, not turning pages of map by hand seems to limit planning
19:04:30  <trendynick> tracks "pops" at start, otherwise are ok
19:05:03  <Zuu> IIRC there is an advanced setting to invert map scrolling.
19:05:54  *** chrswk [~chrswk@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:07:51  <Eddi|zuHause> you can scroll by arrow keys, by right mouse click, or by touching the border (if enabled in settings, not default)
19:08:38  <frosch123> you can also scroll by left-click or mouse wheels if enabled
19:08:46  <frosch123> there are about 5 settings about scrolling
19:08:59  <trendynick> most advanced players play with the default?
19:09:29  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody has statistics about this
19:09:36  <frosch123> it is generally safe to assume that advanced players play with hotkeys and multiple mouse buttons
19:10:04  <Eddi|zuHause> it is generally safe to assume that advanced players know how to change the default
19:11:20  <Rubidium> well... changing the default is a whole different league than changing the setting ;)
19:13:56  <trendynick> considering this is not a spam game as starcraft I would use the hand-scrooling (reverse from default), I doubt any other game compete with it on "death of deshidratation kills"
19:14:26  <Eddi|zuHause> that sentence makes absolutely no sense
19:14:53  <Zuu> Well, you could argue that hand scrolling is more common now due to touch screens. That would make sense.
19:15:14  <frosch123> the default matches the default of the genre
19:15:19  <frosch123> stuff like widelands does the same
19:15:25  <trendynick> starcraft is a spam game! building economy is usually reverse as how to play with hotkeys
19:15:26  <Rubidium> oh... and regarding the DOS thingy... that's what was most common when the origin of TTD was released
19:15:43  <Rubidium> and for what it's worth... OpenTTD also runs on DOS:
19:15:44  <Zuu> But well, for me the current default is useful as right clicking with my wacom pen will cause it work as a joystick and then the reverse scroll is just wrong.
19:16:07  <trendynick> i asked because i don't remeber this type of games on DOS
19:16:23  <Rubidium> regarding the patches section on that wiki page, how are the patch counts determined?
19:16:40  <frosch123> Rubidium: grepping for name in commit message
19:16:49  <Rubidium> cause arguably LordAro has 21
19:23:15  <trendynick> for 480p I do not have anything to add, but on bigger resolution, map with zoom can be placed in a corner & other UI  improvements but I'll expect it when fonforge will look curent software
19:24:51  <LordAro> :D
19:25:12  <LordAro> Rubidium, clearly i should get commit access :p
19:25:52  <frosch123> didn't you get it for freerct?
19:26:06  <LordAro> indeed
19:27:58  <Alberth> he collects them :)
19:28:24  <LordAro> gotta collect 'em all!
19:37:19  <planetmaker> <-- hm?
19:37:34  <planetmaker> I don't dare to call TB retired :P
19:38:27  <planetmaker> not sure I like the (from - till) time designations
19:40:46  <Rubidium> 0.4.8 for me?
19:40:53  <planetmaker> dunno?
19:40:59  <planetmaker> is it wrong?
19:41:07  <frosch123> if you want to add the version numbers, remove the "pre-" stuff, or even minor versions, only branch names imho
19:41:12  <planetmaker>
19:43:06  <Rubidium> hmm... really that late
19:43:27  <planetmaker> with frosch's suggestion it's 0.4 :P
19:43:34  <Rubidium> 0.4.5 ;)
19:44:01  <Rubidium> "it's difficult"
19:44:07  <frosch123> planetmaker: technically 0.4.8 is a different branch :p
19:44:18  <Rubidium> 0.4.5-0.4.8 were branched off way after 0.4
19:44:22  <Rubidium> .0
19:44:34  <frosch123> but smatz and me also joined way before 0.6. we did not join with 0.6 but for 0.6
19:44:42  <frosch123> so, rb would be 0.5 in that case
19:44:50  <frosch123> or 0.4.8 if you count it as branch
19:45:04  <frosch123> hmm, yes, i mean 0.4.5 as branch
19:45:08  <Rubidium> there wasn't enough "new" stuff for the 0.4.5-ish branch to be called 0.5
19:45:47  <Rubidium> that's the reason there are no 0.4.1-0.4.4
19:45:52  <frosch123> maybe 0.4.5-0.4.7 could be considered RCs for 0.4.8 :p
19:46:32  <frosch123> hmm, no, only 0.4.6/0.4.7 are the same
19:47:32  <planetmaker> let's see that as branch numbers where your code is integrated in. Then 0.6 is right
19:47:35  <Eddi|zuHause> 0.4.6 was the one with the depot disaster?
19:47:59  <frosch123> planetmaker: real name for egladil is "Emil Djupfeldt" according to fs
19:48:11  <planetmaker> ah, thanks
19:48:22  <Rubidium> @commit 4044
19:48:22  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Commit by matthijs :: r4044 /branches (0.4.5/ 0.4/) (2006-03-22 22:38:29 UTC)
19:48:23  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Rename 0.4.5 branch to 0.4. Further minor releases will be in the 0.4 range, to prevent enormously long version numbers.
19:48:42  <Rubidium> 0.4.5-0.4.8 all come from essentially the same branch
19:49:02  <trendynick> known activity field with 2 subfields, start & end in that table; or dashed (you have one login for everything or not to have a script?)
19:49:30  <trendynick> the script could be branch aware
19:49:37  <planetmaker> what?
19:49:57  <frosch123>
19:50:43  <planetmaker> meh, you two have the same colour
19:51:00  <trendynick> central signup page use a database with every openttd login?
19:51:12  <planetmaker> yes
19:51:19  <planetmaker> but there's only one login
19:52:05  <trendynick> you can update once per day last activity of an user and use it in such tables
19:52:38  <trendynick> ^ can also be made branch aware on developer tables
19:52:50  <trendynick> the script that use it
19:53:37  <planetmaker> frosch123, Rubidium so you want to differ the 0.4.5 branch instead of calling it 0.4?
19:54:36  <planetmaker> trendynick, and commits to branches are non-obvious as they're usually all done by one person. Which backports everything. Thus... the results will be pretty boring
19:54:37  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: 0.4.5 was really the first time the branch system was used, so calling it 0.4 should suffice?
19:54:38  <frosch123> yeah: 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.4.5, 0.5, 0.6, 0.7, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4
19:54:53  <planetmaker> k. So 0.4 and 0.4.5
19:55:21  <trendynick> frosch123: with perfect memory & no sleep ...
19:55:40  <frosch123> no, with logs
19:55:52  <trendynick> planetmaker: that is why it could be usefull, who need obvious information?
19:56:10  <Eddi|zuHause> but it was really a breaking point of development, so it should probably get a separate entry
19:58:53  <planetmaker> trendynick, a script will only ever return the time of the first and last commit. It will not return ever useful info from activity in branches
19:59:43  <planetmaker> only the sequential commit history in trunk gives the time span people are active. And that everyone can do quickly by the vcs tool of choice
19:59:51  <trendynick> you can update once per day last activity of an user and use it in such tables -> login logs
20:00:30  <frosch123> or you can link to ohloh
20:00:49  <frosch123> or ask dorpsgek
20:00:59  <frosch123> or ask the forums
20:01:09  <frosch123> or reinvent the wheel
20:01:14  <Eddi|zuHause> pr we can just say active/inactive based on activity over the last year?
20:04:30  <trendynick> is there a need to separate active (by login logs) from contribution activity? I missed the evidence
20:05:03  <planetmaker> the difference is people can contribute by debugging, reviews, comments, even w/o commit
20:05:24  <trendynick> why in the same table?
20:06:19  <planetmaker> and retired is officially announced to withdraw while inactive is disappeared w/o announcement. Basically
20:06:30  <trendynick> on the same page depends on the project - I do not know on openttd
20:07:23  <planetmaker> updated diff, frosch123 et al
20:08:33  <LordAro> planetmaker, i tried to get TB moved from "retired" some time ago - he vetoed the change :p
20:09:00  <planetmaker> :)
20:09:03  <frosch123> michi should be 0.7
20:09:25  <planetmaker> true
20:09:30  <LordAro> @fs 4993
20:09:30  <DorpsGek> LordAro:
20:09:32  <LordAro> ^
20:10:26  <planetmaker> @commit 23903
20:10:26  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Commit by rubidium :: r23903 /trunk (readme.txt src/misc_gui.cpp) (2012-02-05 19:32:12 UTC)
20:10:27  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: -Fix [FS#4993]: some instances had issues due to a value being out of range
20:10:59  <LordAro> :D
20:11:54  <trendynick> when I wrote ctrl+F is better than sortable tables, I meant is better to have colapsing tables with reasonable information (manual/automated editing)
20:12:05  <trendynick> maybe I wrote something else...
20:12:20  <frosch123> +  Simon Sasburg (HackyKid)        - For the many bugfixes he has blessed us with (0.4 - 0.4.5) <- that wording only works for "thanks", maybe "bug fixer" ?
20:13:04  <planetmaker> language style: Yoda ;)
20:14:32  <planetmaker> but yes :)
20:14:59  <LordAro> i wonder if t3rkhen is active these days
20:15:20  <planetmaker> I wonder(ed) whether I should extend the list of special thanks by some of the contributors list at the bottom of the wiki page
20:15:37  <planetmaker> he's active in greeting us at least
20:15:42  <LordAro> true
20:15:45  <__ln__> @seen terkhen
20:15:45  <DorpsGek> __ln__: terkhen was last seen in #openttd 13 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 31 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <Terkhen> hello
20:15:50  <LordAro> well
20:16:15  <LordAro> @seen yexo
20:16:15  <DorpsGek> LordAro: yexo was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 30 weeks, 1 day, 6 hours, 59 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
20:16:23  <planetmaker> gone for good, I recon
20:16:28  <LordAro> :/
20:16:50  <frosch123> LordAro: tk is also active on twitter :)
20:16:58  <planetmaker> oh?
20:17:11  <LordAro> i don't doubt he's active irl :L
20:17:19  <frosch123> planetmaker: or are you doing the tweets?
20:17:25  <frosch123> i thought it was tk? :o
20:17:26  <planetmaker> I think he meant openttd's twitter account, LordAro ;)
20:17:36  <planetmaker> no, I never sent any single tweet in my life
20:17:57  <planetmaker> I occasionally post something on our g+ page
20:18:26  <LordAro> ottd has a twitter?
20:18:49  <frosch123> LordAro:
20:18:53  <frosch123> all the ottd you need
20:18:57  <LordAro> :p
20:18:59  <LordAro> so it does
20:19:06  <LordAro> i've just been following the svn feed
20:19:07  <planetmaker> :)
20:19:18  <planetmaker> I'd say, that suffices, LordAro :)
20:19:33  <trendynick>
20:21:13  <LordAro> @seen bjarni
20:21:13  <DorpsGek> LordAro: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 38 weeks, 0 days, 20 hours, 2 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
20:21:15  <planetmaker> I should revise my secondary nick on freenode :P
20:21:36  <LordAro> (has to be done, whenever there are lots of @seens :p )
20:21:53  <LordAro> planetmaker, oh?
20:23:51  <Zuu> Oh there is actually quite many posts in our Google+ community.
20:24:07  <planetmaker> the activity level is rather low, I think :)
20:24:10  <planetmaker> but there's some, yes
20:24:19  <Zuu> Oh well scrolled down to 2013 now I see.
20:24:52  <LordAro> s/rather low/g+ level/ ;)
20:25:05  <planetmaker> same thing ;)
20:26:02  <LordAro> hmm, what about this rudge guy? he hasn't done anything in a while :p
20:27:26  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, he totally never ever contributed anything to the community :p
20:27:45  <frosch123> LordAro: ottd is actually more alive on g+ than on fb, but rd beats them both
20:28:19  <planetmaker> yup. But rd has several openttd servers. so that's like #openttdcoop irc chat
20:28:29  <Zuu> Oh well, better than Desura where everyone ask for the next version to be uploaded.
20:29:00  <frosch123> yeah, even when it is actually our account :p
20:29:08  <frosch123> maybe we can shovel that onto lordaro
20:29:26  <LordAro> D:
20:29:35  <LordAro> wait, rd?
20:29:41  <LordAro> oh, reddit
20:29:44  <frosch123> maybe "r" is better
20:30:19  <LordAro> probably still wouldn't have got it :p
20:30:21  <trendynick> openttdcoop is for what? servers?
20:30:40  <trendynick> irc channel...
20:30:49  <frosch123> it used to be a server for cooperative play
20:31:07  <frosch123> but is now one of the central pillars for about any development related stuff
20:31:12  <frosch123> all kind of add-ons
20:31:47  <frosch123> they also have an wiki btw :p
20:31:56  <Zuu> <-- their website
20:32:18  <luaduck> gg me for getting nickbanned from ottdcoop
20:32:25  <luaduck> young idiotic me went full retard
20:33:11  <planetmaker> well, #openttdcoop IRC channel is still the chat connected to the game server. development chat is also mostly here
20:33:26  <trendynick> the login is separate from openttd?
20:33:42  <planetmaker> and devzone is open to everyone working on OSS projects in relation to openttd
20:33:48  <planetmaker> yes
20:33:49  <Zuu> You need a password to log on to their servers which you get via their IRC channel.
20:33:50  <luaduck> stuff like AP+ would be useful to have ottdcoop for
20:33:52  <frosch123> in the ottd world you need 3 accounts: openttd, openttdcoop, tt-forums
20:34:10  <planetmaker> ap+ is dead ;) we now have soap which helped cleaning it ;)
20:34:19  <Zuu> :-)
20:34:20  <luaduck> I thought soap was horribly broken and dropped
20:35:13  <luaduck> but it isn't
20:35:17  <luaduck> ok I have an erection
20:35:30  <luaduck> well to be fair anything that isn't AP+ awful TCL gives me an erection
20:42:16  <NGC3982> Go, go Costa Rica!
20:47:43  <luaduck> can soap do irc <-> game chat?
20:48:17  <planetmaker> yes. It's a supybot plug-in after all
20:48:27  <frosch123> night
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20:48:34  <luaduck> I can't find anything referencing it in the config, 's all
20:48:35  <planetmaker> every #openttdcoop server uses it, luaduck
20:48:44  <planetmaker> nothing in openttd config
20:48:54  <luaduck> the soap I mean
20:49:02  <planetmaker> nor in soap config either, I guess. It's just there
20:49:08  <luaduck> ok cool
20:49:25  <luaduck> and I guess the last question is if it'll work with forks of supybot
20:49:35  *** Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:49:40  <planetmaker> dunno. works with supybot
20:50:06  <luaduck> I'll stick with supy for the time being then
20:50:15  <luaduck> Limnoria seems to have some more features and stuff
20:50:44  <planetmaker> you could simply try...
20:51:17  <luaduck> but trying is effort
20:51:20  <luaduck> :(
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21:29:45  <Wolf01> 'night all
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21:47:12  <Euryale> Does anyone know if 1.4 got any new dependencies or compile-time options?
21:47:43  <Euryale> I'm on Gentoo and the ebuild is old (1.3) and I miss OpenTTD
21:48:00  <Euryale> so I'm going to update it since it doesn't seem like anyone else is.
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21:49:22  <planetmaker> doesn't the generic binary work which we offer on our website?
21:49:52  <planetmaker> anyhow, I'm not aware of new deps
21:50:18  <Euryale> Yes... but then my package manager doesn't track it
21:50:31  <Rubidium> it somewhat depends of what you want to use
21:50:33  <Euryale> ... which seems a moot point since I'm manually babysitting the package manager ;)
21:51:07  <Rubidium> there are a few dependencies that are optional, and one such optional things was added in 1.4 (xdg-basedir)
21:51:34  <Euryale> Ah! Okay
21:51:43  <Rubidium> though that dependency only does something when you don't have openttd.cfg in ~/.openttd
21:52:01  <Rubidium> so I reckon that it's a no-op on your system
21:52:50  <Euryale> I'll stuff it in a USE flag and call it a day then
21:52:52  <Euryale> thanks!
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21:54:49  <Rubidium> though I wonder whether they fixed xdg-basedir in gentoo
21:55:02  <Rubidium> if not, then openttd likely won't start
21:55:12  <Euryale> what's wrong with it?
21:55:40  <Rubidium> run-of-the-mill buffer overflow
21:56:03  <Rubidium> if you have 1.2.0-r1 of libxdg-basedir then you're okay, otherwise not
21:57:16  <trendynick> planetmaker:
21:57:40  <Euryale> ah! good to know, thanks
21:58:07  <Euryale> apparently it's 1.1.1, so it's probably broken
21:59:27  <Euryale> alright, so using XDG it would depend on dev-libs/libxdg-basedir.
21:59:30  <Euryale> straightforward enough
21:59:48  <planetmaker> trendynick, do you try to tell me why to use a DVCS?
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22:00:02  <Wienish> hey yall
22:00:05  <trendynick> I meanth with wiki
22:01:59  <Wienish> Oehh we're talking about the wiki?
22:02:06  <Wienish> I was just wondering something about it :D
22:03:57  <Wienish> I was trying to download the World scenario
22:04:06  <Wienish> but I can't :( Is it available somewhere?
22:04:19  <planetmaker> did you check ingame online content, Wienish ?
22:06:02  <planetmaker> trendynick, OpenTTD has no feature branches (anymore). So there is nothing which a script can operate on
22:06:32  <Euryale> Is there anything that needs to be passed to ./configure in order to utilize libxdg-basedir or is it just a matter of it being present or not?
22:07:09  <planetmaker> Anyone who writes a (bigger) patch works on a (separate) repo, which also can be used for review. And there's no canonical place to find that
22:07:36  <planetmaker> thus the status of any patch can by no means be derived by means of any possible script from any database
22:07:51  <planetmaker> except by an intelligent bot which skims forums and IRC
22:07:54  <Wienish> I'm going to try now, planetmaker. I saw in the description I need a patch that makes maps go bigger.
22:08:11  <trendynick> the example can be about anything that cannot be done in sequential days
22:08:12  <planetmaker> Wienish, if that is required, then... not sure you'll have fun
22:08:23  <Wienish> :o why
22:08:43  <planetmaker> because you'd need an OpenTTD version which matches the exact one to load that scenario then
22:08:54  <Wienish> it is a 8000x4000 map, so it's 8 times bigger than a normal map lol
22:09:17  <planetmaker> whatever is "normal". My "normal" is 512^2
22:09:25  <Wienish> Am I allowed to make the joke I have either the "Latest" or the "Most recent" version?
22:09:38  <Wienish> yeah but I mean normal max.
22:10:04  <planetmaker> if you mention also by which definition of 'latest' or 'most recent', then you may. Otherwise it's stale ;)
22:11:07  <Wienish> I probably don't have the most recent
22:11:12  <Wienish> I will check it out now.
22:11:27  <planetmaker> Wienish, 'most recent' won't help you with the requirement to use a certain patched version
22:11:41  <Wienish> I'm on 1.3.3 lol
22:11:55  <planetmaker> lol. That's not 'latest' by *any* standard
22:12:07  <Wienish> No I was thinking the same :P
22:12:08  <planetmaker> it's like old-old-old stable
22:12:21  <Wienish> we're on 1.4.4 now I guess?
22:12:27  <planetmaker> 1.4.1
22:12:31  <Wienish> 1.4.1. i see
22:13:36  <luaduck> hm, is it possible to get soap to relay a group of servers into one channel with the Relay plugin?
22:13:42  <luaduck> documentation is a little unclear
22:17:50  <planetmaker> dunno. It's made for 1 server / channel
22:18:07  <Wienish> I'm updating to 1.4.1 now :) Also with GFX, GSX and that other thing.. GMX I believe :)
22:49:43  <Eddi|zuHause> BMX?
22:49:59  <Eddi|zuHause> do kids nowadays know what BMX is?
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23:11:17  <luaduck> blarf, I can't find a way to do multiple servers
23:11:38  <luaduck> I have linkrelay set up but anything that linkrelay mirrors to the server channel doesn't get printed to the server
23:13:36  <trendynick> @1.4.1: (jazz jukebox sliders do not do anything on both versions) and it seems "pops" are more frequent than 1.3.3 (I have audio monitors)
23:15:55  <trendynick> fullscreen@1080p: it is bad code/implementation on track loading
23:19:38  <Eddi|zuHause> midi volume control is not implemented on linux
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23:39:26  <trendynick> when I'll have time for contributing (or to relax from other activity) I'll sign-up, but for now I'll have only activity of a logging bot
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