Log for #openttd on 5th July 2014:
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07:33:23  <Wolf01> hello o/
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07:52:37  <andythenorth> o/
07:54:31  <planetmaker> \o
07:55:28  <andythenorth> slow forum is slow
07:55:36  <andythenorth> fund a bigger server?
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07:58:45  <planetmaker> I would not assume it's so much a server issue due to the fact that the slowness appeared rather suddenly
07:59:20  <planetmaker> but I guess no-one knows what causes it right now :)
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08:25:50  <peter1138> andythenorth, you're funding it?
08:26:01  <andythenorth> I gave him 50p or something
08:26:05  <andythenorth> I could give more
08:26:09  <andythenorth> slow is boring
08:26:20  <andythenorth> hmm, it’s gone fast again
08:26:29  <andythenorth> maybe mysql got in a tiz
08:26:35  <V453000> :D
08:26:48  <andythenorth> should I add a parameter to Iron Horse?
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08:27:04  <peter1138> No
08:27:17  <Alberth> moin
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08:27:31  <V453000> mooin
08:28:37  <planetmaker> moin
08:28:50  <andythenorth> I was thinking of doing a daylength patch in newgrf
08:31:39  <V453000> changed intro dates andythenorth ?
08:31:42  <V453000> I thought about that too
08:32:57  <andythenorth> yeah, just scaling 1-32x or something
08:33:02  <andythenorth> on a prameter
08:33:14  <andythenorth> so bored of seeing daylength patches
08:33:46  <V453000> aye
08:34:00  <V453000> I just didnt know how to implement it to the parameter
08:34:27  <V453000> 1-10x is more than enough :P
08:34:52  <V453000> even x2 is huge
08:35:09  <V453000> in case of nuts that would already be 200 to 400 years of new engines
08:35:13  <Alberth> I had an idea to make a newgrf for each type of train, eg a steam-newgrf from 1950 to 2050 or so, and a diesel newgrf, an electric newgrf, etc etc. With parameter when the first train of that type should be available, and when the last one should become unavailable
08:35:33  <V453000> hm :)
08:35:33  <Alberth> so you can configure your own eras in any way you desire
08:36:38  <Alberth> steam newgrf is probably most needed :)
08:37:11  <V453000> I am not sure letting people configure too much is a great idea :P
08:37:39  <V453000> usually means more tedious map creation, too
08:37:47  <Alberth> yeah, it assumes they know where the "set parameter" button is :p
08:38:13  <V453000> not just that, it also assumes they are not idiots and are able to set it up to make it work well
08:38:21  <V453000> idiot-proof is good
08:38:29  <Alberth> :D
08:38:53  <V453000> "oh I set the newGRF badly, I had no engines available for 100 years, please help!"
08:39:16  <Alberth> the game should be more helpful with that, I agree
08:39:29  <Alberth> same happens with no wagons for cargo types  etc
08:39:29  <V453000> but simply stretching time is great, they cant screw it up
08:39:51  <V453000> I would still very much appreciate more control for newGRF to make vehicles expire at some precise date
08:39:56  <V453000> myeah
08:40:16  <V453000> btw what do you think about YETI providing 1 special wagon only for Workers?
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08:40:49  <V453000> idk what class to give to yetis ... oversized will mostly look like some machinery I assume
08:41:06  <V453000> so far they have no class
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08:41:18  <Alberth> could be useful
08:41:38  <Alberth> on the other hand, you're probably never going to be compatible with all vehicle sets
08:41:57  <V453000> no, but all of the other cargoes are usually defined by vehicle sets
08:42:10  <V453000> and by defined I mean defined and the cargo looks +- how I want it to look
08:42:34  <V453000> idk how Uranium would look, it is bulk, so probably mostly some coal-ish, I think pikka uses gray bulks for undefined things
08:42:53  <V453000> point is, heap of something doesnt matter, yeti monsters do
08:43:03  <Alberth> but you're not in agreement with other people either wrt other cargoes :)
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08:44:04  <Alberth> eg CHIPS uses purple/pink-ish for iron ore, you use brown or yellow-ish iirc
08:44:31  <V453000> well that is andy and he already agreed that pinkish is bullshit :D and other vehicles do use very similar brown to mine
08:44:41  <V453000> right andythenorth ?
08:44:59  <Alberth> also, maybe you should give other authors the chance to adapt their set to your yetis
08:45:07  <V453000> "other people" usually dont define all cargoes, I do
08:45:22  <V453000> they can adapt the set to yetis if they explicitly want
08:45:33  <V453000> just add cargo YETI to refittable and easy
08:45:56  <V453000> but if YETI provides one such wagon itself, they dont Have to
08:46:20  <V453000> if NUTS is loaded with YETI, the wagon would simply not appear
08:46:50  <peter1138> It's a pinkybrown :p
08:47:09  <Alberth> pinky brain :)
08:48:09  <V453000> Alberth: is there even any newGRF which would define each and every ECS+FIRS+PikkaBasicI. cargo?
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08:49:28  <Alberth> for default set it would work, as it won't get changed (perhaps in opengfx+trains something may be added). As for other vehicle sets, I seriously doubt they would use your wagon, as "it's not realistic", or "it doesn't fit in the vehicle style".
08:50:21  <Alberth> I don't know how many people load a industry set, but not a vehicle set. Not many, I am guessing
08:51:19  <V453000> "it is not realistic" applies to YETI itself, too :P
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08:51:40  <V453000> the idea is just not to make other train sets useless, while keeping YETI as a unique cargo without the need for cargo class
08:52:16  <Alberth> (10:48:09) V453000: Alberth: is there even any newGRF which would define each and every ECS+FIRS+PikkaBasicI. cargo? <-- I honestly don't know, except for a few, most vehicle sets are just collections of a zillion vehicles to me. I cannot bother to dig my way through them
08:52:19  <V453000> making other train sets use a custom wagon sounds a lot better to me than seeing YETIs as goods crates
08:52:40  <V453000> well I did dig through a lot myself Alberth :P
08:54:45  <Alberth> I do agree it's the most you can do for YETIs.
08:55:08  <V453000> not so much through the newer train sets like dutch/xUSSR, but those are so bad that even if they did define all cargoes they would still not be very useful :D
08:55:12  <V453000> aye :)
08:57:33  <Alberth> it will be interesting to see how many vehicle sets adopt it :)
08:58:31  <V453000> 0
08:58:31  <V453000> ?
09:00:41  <Alberth> nah, I predict at least NUTS will acknowledge its existence :D
09:01:05  <Alberth> and default vehicles will use it too :)
09:01:47  <V453000> I dont count nuts :)
09:01:51  <Alberth> and opengfx+trains
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09:02:29  <Alberth> hi hi andy
09:03:17  <V453000> hyhy
09:03:50  <Alberth> will iron horse and squid adopt YETIs as cargo?
09:03:56  <andythenorth> no idea :)
09:04:12  <V453000> eat him!
09:04:26  * andythenorth biab
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09:05:29  <V453000> wat
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09:50:17  <Alberth> sending in the yetis may not be the optimal strategy :)
09:50:57  <V453000> :D
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10:04:25  <Alberth> engines seem overpowered for cargo transport in troptical refurbishment set, pulling a 64 km/h wagon with a 104 km/h engine :)
10:08:51  <planetmaker> power is not speed :)
10:09:14  <planetmaker> but I noticed that, too. The engine top speed often is pointless when you play with wagon speed limits
10:16:41  <V453000> I think wagon speed limits are completely pointless
10:17:06  <V453000> if trains are to be competitively viable against each other, there should be no need of another limit that would cripple some trains down
10:17:48  <Alberth> wagonspeedlimits on  <-- the readme suggests to use it :)
10:17:56  <V453000> ..................................
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14:28:49  <__ln__>
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14:59:25  <__ln__> hey central-europeans, how many different keys do you need to get into your apartment from outside the building?
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15:01:45  <V453000> 2 usually
15:01:49  <Guest1071> hey. i am not new to openttd, but this is the first time i am considering getting some NewGRFs etc. but there is so many of them, i am not sure which one to get. anyone got some "must-have" or is there anyway to sort NewGRFs by popularity?
15:02:15  <V453000> it depends how you play and what you like Guest1071  :)
15:02:22  <Alberth> all normal houses usually have 1 door you need to get through :)
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15:03:26  <Alberth> tus_: there is no common popular set, as V says, it depends on how you play the game
15:03:26  <tus_> V453000, I am thinking of sets for (1) air, (2) vehicles and (3) trains not much more. i am interested in those that let me start from 1800 and play to like 2000+ :p
15:03:58  <tus_> i have been googling like mad for some kind of list but most are outdated and there is no "one huge list" but if i have missed anything pls let me know
15:04:00  <Alberth> ie realistic, build large network, eye-candy
15:04:23  <V453000> try NUTS Unrealistic Train Set for trains
15:04:26  <V453000> eGRVTS for road vehicles
15:04:29  <Alberth> tus_: online content right from the main menu? :)
15:04:34  <V453000> and aircraft is pretty much only Av8
15:04:34  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: usually one for the building door and one for the flat (plus one for the cellar and one for the mail box). but you can add as many locks to your flat as you like
15:04:49  <Alberth> ships is squid
15:05:07  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, two for the cellar. it's usually behind another main door
15:05:10  <tus_> Alberth that list is genius but i wish there was a way to sort by popularity to help new players get into that. otherwise i have no idea to start :p
15:05:23  <tus_> V453000 thanks man! I will be looking these up!
15:05:34  <Alberth> tus_: coming here is a good way :)
15:05:45  <Eddi|zuHause> which may or may not use the same key as the building door
15:06:15  <Alberth> but everybody has his/her own style of playing, so there is no common agreement on popular grfs
15:06:39  <tus_> ah I see. Well atleast I got some guidance now so I can get started slowly.
15:06:40  <__ln__> i'm used to having just one key that fits both the building front door and the flat door. and the same key opens also cellar doors or whatever other doors i am supposed to have access to.
15:06:57  <tus_> By the way, I am using AdmiralAI as AI. Is it a stupid idea to have like 5 AdmiralAIs? Is it best to have 5 different AIs instead?
15:07:17  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: maybe with more modern lock systems that have selective keys that works
15:07:19  <Alberth>  can be useful for searching
15:07:35  <V453000> tus_: I recommend turning on expiring vehicles, and start in 1900 with NUTS ;) I believe you can start earlier than that, it does have trains, but the next new train will be in 1900-something
15:08:00  <Alberth>  can be useful too
15:08:04  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: but that may make it more expensive if you actually lose a key
15:08:09  <V453000> expiring vehicles will make sure you dont get overwhelmed by the amount of vehicles, while NUTS is well adapted for it
15:08:51  <tus_> thanks for the tip
15:09:34  <V453000> yw
15:09:42  <Eddi|zuHause> tus_: yes, it works better when you have different types of AI. AIs that think alike tend to get in each others way
15:09:46  <Alberth> with grfcrawler I always have the idea that the stuff is old
15:09:52  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: knowing that such 1-key systems have been widely used in finland for decades makes me kind of facepalm when at a central european hotel i'm handed 2 or 3 keys that are needed just to get into my room.
15:10:29  <tus_> Eddi|zuHause thanks, that's probably why in my test game all of them had bus stations in same towns lol
15:10:55  <Alberth> __ln__: it's called "authentic" :)
15:11:22  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: that's when they are so cheap they can't afford a key system
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15:20:46  <Alberth> the number of central european hotel owners here are close to 0  :)
15:22:24  <__ln__> i don't think the madness is limited to hotels, it's about regular apartment buildings too.
15:26:27  <Alberth> quite likely :)
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16:07:42  <SpComb> they're switching over from abloy execs here
16:07:47  <SpComb> starting to see iLoq's
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16:36:31  <peter1138> Meanwhile I have a different key for every lock, at home.
16:38:57  <__ln__> and i bet hot and cold water comes from two different taps
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16:41:09  <planetmaker> hi hi
16:54:08  <Alberth> o/
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17:29:45  <peter1138> __ln__, sometimes... mixer taps are bloody expensive.
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18:22:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen separate taps in ages
18:28:45  <Alberth> no garden with a tap for cold water?
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18:29:42  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, lies. Or you haven't been at the OpenTTD meetings ;)
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18:30:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't paid attention, probably
18:30:35  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: our garden doesn't have a tap. we collect rain water.
18:31:38  <Alberth> kk, no tap thus in the garden :)
18:31:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: anyway, "cold-water-only-tap" is something different to "separate tap"
18:32:06  <Alberth> fair enough :)
18:35:41  <V453000> both sound unrelated to beer
18:35:43  <V453000> hence wtf
18:48:09  <Alberth> assuming yetis drink water and beer by the barrel, it doesn't sound yeti related either
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18:54:29  <V453000> EXACTLY
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19:03:39  <__ln__>
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19:21:55  <andythenorth> where is cat?
19:22:13  <V453000> here
19:23:28  <andythenorth> good to know
19:25:14  <V453000> PAT ME
19:29:10  <tus_> Is it possible to have a t random world generation? By that mean that it randomizes Smoothnees, number of industries etc. I can't seem to see anything.
19:29:59  <Alberth> close your eyes, click and move the mouse randomly? :)
19:30:04  <Alberth> otherwise, no
19:30:32  <tus_> haha, i will do the close my eyes thing ;) thanks
19:30:43  <Alberth> you can get a savegame from the forum, and continue playing with that perhaps
19:31:00  <tus_> ya it's no major problem anyway! game is awesome as it is
19:31:42  <Alberth> settings are in openttd.cfg, you could probably write a script that changes them before you start the program
19:32:11  <tus_> interesting, thanks man
19:32:53  <planetmaker> I need that with a web interface :)
19:33:20  <V453000> Alberth: savegames from the forum have too high likelihood od being simply BAD :P
19:33:47  <planetmaker> V453000, I think we should start archiving the games from stable server, too
19:33:58  <Alberth> you can also do "click and move the mouse randomly" at the web browser, not sure whether you end up at a safe place :)
19:34:17  <tus_> i am not sure if any of the devs are here, but thanks for the awesome game
19:34:25  <planetmaker> I might end up in the irc window, Alberth ;)
19:34:35  <Alberth> :D
19:35:41  <planetmaker> Much appreciated. Glad you like it, tus_ :)
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20:02:57  <andythenorth> wine is more-ish
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20:27:59  <Alberth> good night
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21:07:08  <andythenorth> bye
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22:12:33  <DigitalFox> Hi :)
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22:17:18  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:55:21  <fjb> Moin.
22:59:24  <planetmaker> o/
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23:55:50  <tus_> how stupid is it to use the same AI script for 4-5 computer players? I am having a bit of a hard time finding AI:s that do trains, airs, vehicles etc together.
23:57:21  <planetmaker> it's not necessarily the best idea. But it depends on the AI. You could give NoCAB a shot as well
23:57:54  <planetmaker>
23:58:29  <planetmaker> not sure how current the table is. But there has been remarkably little AI development recently
23:59:01  <tus_> ohh thanks for that table. it's really helpful, even if it may be outdated. I already tried NoCAB but it seems to work sometimes, sometimes not. Weird. Maybe it takes a bit to utilize. Thanks

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