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ZZZzzzâŠ] 05:57:36 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:29:53 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:6506:2cb8:25f4:cf14] has joined #openttd 07:02:06 <Eddi|zuHause> "flight of the world champions is two hours delayed"... how is this a top news item again? 07:11:58 <Rubidium> I'd say the only real news would be that it's delayed indefinitely due to landing in the Atlantic rather uncontrolled 07:12:24 <V453000> the only real new is that yetis will get their home 07:13:14 <planetmaker> moin 07:13:22 <planetmaker> Rubidium, like AF 447? ;) 07:14:40 <Rubidium> yup 07:24:42 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 07:25:41 *** kero [~keikoz@37.175.23.39] has joined #openttd 08:01:46 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:08:06 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:08:07 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:09:34 *** wakou [~stephen@host86-145-17-79.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:14:32 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:21:06 <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/YETI/4-X-x4.png ? :D 09:24:04 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 09:27:51 <Xaroth|Work> lol V453000 09:35:09 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 09:43:44 <__ln__> http://imgur.com/gallery/O8mjQub 10:09:41 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:11:59 *** Chrill [Chrill@c83-255-26-205.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 10:50:31 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 11:22:10 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.35.40.43] has joined #openttd 11:22:28 *** Chrill [Chrill@c83-255-26-205.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 11:34:21 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:01:11 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:24 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 12:28:03 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:36:06 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:39:55 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 12:59:41 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 13:03:51 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@177.35.40.43] has joined #openttd 13:08:02 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.35.40.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:36:42 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:39:39 *** Guest2504 [~jrambo@178-221-90-42.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:41:08 *** jrambo [~jrambo@178-221-90-42.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #openttd 13:51:36 <peter1138> We would like you to be the first to know of an exciting update to Ohloh.net. This week, Ohloh will be changing its name to the Black Duck Open Hub. 13:51:40 <peter1138> Oh really... 13:53:08 <Xaroth|Work> o_O 13:55:27 *** rambo [~jrambo@178-221-90-42.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #openttd 13:55:59 *** rambo is now known as Guest2870 14:01:46 *** jrambo [~jrambo@178-221-90-42.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:26:46 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 15:02:06 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@vadtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:03:06 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@vadtec.net] has joined #openttd 15:19:08 *** kero [~keikoz@37.175.23.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:41:16 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B919.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:54:28 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 16:02:28 *** kais58__ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:03:01 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:06 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:08:49 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:11:38 *** moffi [~moffi@dsdf-4db524da.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:13:37 *** smb [~smb@174.84.239.58] has joined #openttd 16:16:03 *** smb [~smb@174.84.239.58] has quit [] 16:16:26 *** smb [~smb@174.84.239.58] has joined #openttd 16:17:38 *** kero [~keikoz@37.175.23.39] has joined #openttd 16:30:50 *** montalvo [~montalvo@ip24-253-22-95.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #openttd 16:38:20 *** smb [~smb@174.84.239.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:38:25 *** smb [~smb@174.84.239.58] has joined #openttd 16:39:10 *** smb [~smb@174.84.239.58] has quit [] 16:39:14 *** mrdaft [~smb@174.84.239.58] has joined #openttd 16:44:19 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 16:44:22 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:52:21 *** moffi [~moffi@dsdf-4db524da.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:04:35 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01ccd7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:11:24 <planetmaker> o/ 17:11:34 <planetmaker> evenink 17:11:41 <frosch123> hai 17:12:15 <Alberth> o/ 17:12:51 <frosch123> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1052093#p1052093 <- planetmaker: btw. would you like to abuse your powers and add http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/extra/musa.hg as alternative to svn 17:12:58 <frosch123> imo artists are more likely to have an hg client :p 17:13:06 <Rubidium> ehlo 17:14:41 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:23 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 17:16:36 <planetmaker> like that? 17:16:53 <frosch123> :) 17:17:19 <frosch123> the "Source?" slighly lower is somewhat redundant 17:17:28 <frosch123> no idea what's that about 17:19:55 <planetmaker> well :) 17:20:00 <planetmaker> added that there, too 17:26:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.191.13] has joined #openttd 17:27:34 *** luaduck_zzz [~luaduck@0001c465.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:32:01 *** luaduck [~luaduck@0001c465.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:32:01 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 17:39:04 <V453000> how do I make an industry get a requirement to be in/near to a town? 17:39:26 <V453000> got a 2X2 tile worker yard :) 17:39:29 <planetmaker> location check upon construction 17:39:36 <planetmaker> it's a callback 17:40:13 <planetmaker> location_check 17:40:19 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Industries#Industry_callbacks 17:40:53 <V453000> yarr, that I saw, but how do I detect the town/distance from town? 17:41:55 <planetmaker> check the town_manhattan_dist or town_euclidean_dist or town_zone variable? 17:42:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:42:38 <V453000> ahaa! thanks! (: 17:44:31 <frosch123> the default industries know two types of "near town" 17:44:43 <frosch123> the toy shop needs to be within 15 tiles of the city center or something like that 17:44:55 <frosch123> and the temp bank is build over houses (replacing them) 17:45:02 <frosch123> the former fails if there are houses everywhere 17:45:10 <frosch123> the latter fails if there are no houses :p 17:45:19 <frosch123> i cannot remember whether there was something that works with both 17:45:29 <planetmaker> finding a 4x4 area of houses to replace will likely fail, too :) 17:45:50 <V453000> :D 17:45:52 <V453000> I use 2x2 now :P 17:45:52 <frosch123> the screenshot was only 2x2, wasn't it? 17:45:57 <V453000> ye 17:46:10 <planetmaker> well, that might work indeed then 17:46:23 <planetmaker> replacing a banking tower by a yeti hut :P 17:46:23 <V453000> I think I want the toy shop approach I guess 17:46:41 <planetmaker> is that an industry or a house, technically, V453000 ? 17:46:46 <V453000> industry 17:46:51 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> finding a 4x4 area of houses to replace will likely fail, too :) <-- well, if there are 4 stadiums... :p 17:47:14 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, won't happen for 2 of the 3 possible town layouts :) 17:47:34 <Eddi|zuHause> there are 4 different town layouts 17:47:59 <planetmaker> ok, so 2 of 4 :) 17:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway... if you use the house replacement, then your industry will likely be in the center of towns, if you don't, your industry will likely be on the outskirts of towns (and the towns later grow around it) 17:49:39 <frosch123> V453000: actually the toyshow allows both, house and non-house 17:50:08 <andythenorth> rio/ 17:50:15 <andythenorth> ? 17:50:16 <andythenorth> o/ 17:50:19 <frosch123> V453000: so, IND_FLAG_BUILT_NEAR_TOWN is your best try 17:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> rio was two days ago. today is berlin 17:50:51 <V453000> oh :) 17:52:43 <V453000> frosch123: that looks functional :) 17:52:54 <V453000> the other one didnt quite seem to work for some reason, I had something wrong 17:54:02 <V453000> hm wtf :D "town_manhattan_dist" is a function and should be called using the function call syntax 17:54:06 <V453000> what is function call? 17:54:34 <planetmaker> town_manhattan_dist(0,0) 17:54:40 <planetmaker> it requires (relative) coordinates 17:54:46 <V453000> :0 17:55:02 <V453000> hahaa 17:55:05 <V453000> that works indeed (: 17:55:46 <planetmaker> btw, that's why it's in the section "variables that require an argument" :P 17:56:16 <planetmaker> s/an argument/some parameters/ 17:56:50 <V453000> too small letters XD 18:01:51 <planetmaker> sorry, I thought you had better eyes than your Yeti :P 18:02:17 *** Chrill [Chrill@c83-255-26-205.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 18:02:17 <frosch123> yeah, but there is a big yeti sitting in his lap 18:02:20 <V453000> not quite :D 18:02:22 <frosch123> blocking the view 18:02:37 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26689 /extra/website (6 files in 3 dirs) (2014-07-15 18:02:30 UTC) 18:02:38 <DorpsGek> [website] -Fix-ish: do not switch deliberately between https and http for links 18:02:38 <V453000> I am getting ultra lost in the whole NML page about industries :P 18:02:39 <DorpsGek> [website] -Update: version numbers, copyright year, sponsor links and the likes 18:04:02 <andythenorth> V453000: I find the nfo pages useful http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Industries 18:04:33 <planetmaker> V453000, how can it be made better? (honest question) 18:04:51 <planetmaker> andythenorth, that page doesn't explain callbacks ;) 18:04:59 <V453000> planetmaker: I think it is written well 18:05:14 <V453000> I am just lost in the huge amount of stuff 18:05:23 <planetmaker> V453000, I've the feeling, too, that it's a bit long. It's not always intuitive to find stuff. No, also not for me 18:05:27 <planetmaker> whom I wrote much of it :P 18:05:41 <frosch123> planetmaker: is there a reason why industry and indtile aren't separate pages? 18:06:05 <planetmaker> frosch123, the reason is like "if you write an industry you need it both". But nothing else, iirc 18:06:10 <frosch123> (except that it is the same for the way shorter airport page) 18:06:28 <frosch123> planetmaker: well, then you should put the "grf" item on every page :p 18:06:33 <planetmaker> :P 18:07:01 <frosch123> problem is imho, that you cannot easily tell whether you are looking at indtile or industry properties 18:07:06 <frosch123> when looking at a big table 18:07:26 <planetmaker> could be made separate, I guess 18:07:31 <frosch123> (distinguishing properties/variables/callbacks is easier) 18:08:10 <frosch123> ah, i have 50 minutes left anyway 18:08:13 <frosch123> i'll split it 18:08:32 <planetmaker> 50 minutes? 18:08:56 <planetmaker> does little froggy have to be in bed at nine? :P 18:10:20 <frosch123> he, that actually reminded me of something :p 18:10:30 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C39AF.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:10:35 <planetmaker> :) 18:10:38 <frosch123> i also had some other task to do 18:10:49 <frosch123> won't take 50 minutes though :p 18:11:51 * planetmaker continues with requests lib and jenkins api 18:12:00 * andythenorth wants to speed up FIRS 18:12:11 <andythenorth> tonight is not enough time though 18:12:24 <andythenorth> planetmaker: would you have some time to look at the evil I did to Iron Horse makefile? 18:12:33 <andythenorth> itâs only a line, but evil 18:12:37 *** moffi [~moffi@dsdf-4db524da.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:13:17 <planetmaker> I guess I do 18:14:24 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:14:36 <andythenorth> L254 18:14:37 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/Makefile 18:14:48 <andythenorth> Iâve made an NML makefile use grfcodec 18:14:53 <andythenorth> it works, but itâs wrong 18:15:24 <planetmaker> he, does iron horse use no nml at all anymore? 18:15:43 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-8421.vo.lu] has joined #openttd 18:15:46 <Phreeze> hiho 18:15:47 <planetmaker> can you explain to me the build process? 18:15:50 <andythenorth> yes 18:16:10 <planetmaker> yes=no nml or yes=can explain? :P 18:16:12 <andythenorth> python classes + templates -> nml files -> nfo files -> single nfo file -> grfcodec 18:16:32 <planetmaker> ok 18:16:57 <andythenorth> boatloads of nml :) 18:17:05 <andythenorth> Iâm not going back to writing nfo 18:17:13 <andythenorth> I have that T-shirt already 18:18:14 <planetmaker> ok... where is nml called now in that makefile when you replaced it by a call to grfcodec? 18:19:20 *** Chrill [Chrill@c83-255-26-205.bredband.comhem.se] has left #openttd [] 18:19:49 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/render_nml_nfo.py 18:19:57 <andythenorth> L56 and so 18:19:58 <frosch123> hmm, there are some shared parts on that page... 18:20:03 <frosch123> splitting is not that easy :p 18:20:09 <frosch123> common variables, common callback results 18:20:13 <andythenorth> for the record the Makefile could probably replace 80% of the python script, but I probably wonât for IH 18:20:23 <andythenorth> but probably will try a Makefile for FIRS 18:21:18 <planetmaker> if you generate the nfo already in that, then the change you made is the simplest way to adjust Makefile 18:21:34 <planetmaker> no need to make it more complicated 18:21:59 <andythenorth> it doesnât break anything particularly? 18:22:18 <planetmaker> not that I'm aware of 18:22:19 <andythenorth> I think I throw away a lot of the effort around things like nml version? 18:22:46 <planetmaker> well, yes. you do that by calling nml in the python script 18:22:57 <planetmaker> but on the other hand: all those nml version checks mostly are not needed 18:23:05 <planetmaker> so... do you care as long as it works with nml tip? 18:23:35 <andythenorth> Iâm happy if it works with nml tip :) 18:23:53 <andythenorth> it has a few edge cases if the compile fails on the first run 18:24:01 <Alberth> let's hope nml tip itself works too :p 18:24:14 <planetmaker> :) 18:25:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth, what *might* also work: use the default makefile, and re-define the NML and NML_FLAGS variables to "grfcodec" and "-e -s" or whatever :) 18:25:28 <planetmaker> but that might be more confusing than helpful 18:26:32 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.233.237.188] has joined #openttd 18:26:39 <Alberth> \o\o 18:26:55 <Wolf01> hi hi 18:27:25 <__ln__> ciao 18:32:41 *** LSky` [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:37:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth, anyhow, in summary, I'd leave the file like that. Unless the render_nml_nfo.py should be replaced (in parts) 18:37:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:54 <planetmaker> lol 18:41:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:46:02 <andythenorth> crashy mac is crashy 18:48:51 <planetmaker> it is. What I just said before the crash: leave the Makefile as-is. Unless you really want to de-compose the render...py file into a pure rendering.py and a Makfile part 18:53:15 <frosch123> V453000: i hope the page is shorter now 18:53:28 <V453000> (: 18:56:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 19:10:51 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:13:59 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 19:22:53 <Phreeze> when i set speed of a waggon according to the current year, what unit must i use ? 19:22:59 <Phreeze> switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF,sw_wegmann_speed,current_year) { 19:22:59 <Phreeze> 1965 .. 1980: 120 km/h; 19:23:10 <Phreeze> is meh -> km/h not recognized 19:25:43 <peter1138> Don't change variables based on current year. 19:26:15 <Phreeze> -.- 19:26:31 <Phreeze> so i have to create the wagon twice ? that's lame 19:26:32 <V453000> idk I always used :120; without km/h 19:26:44 <V453000> omfg wagon speed limits XD 19:26:59 <Diablo-D3> Phreeze: no, dont do wagon speed limits 19:27:03 <Diablo-D3> its fucking annoying 19:27:18 <frosch123> changing vehicle properties while they are on the tracks, desyncs 19:27:27 <Diablo-D3> its one of the things I hate about 2cc 19:27:41 <Diablo-D3> I like all the engines, but having multiple types of the same wagon is a pita 19:27:56 <Diablo-D3> especially when most of them are never used because most people start in the 40s/50s/60s 19:28:16 <planetmaker> changing vehicle stats without refit sucks big time anyway 19:28:34 <planetmaker> and time updates with different stats kills autoreplace. Thus a BAD FEATURE. Use a new vehicleID instead 19:28:42 <peter1138> I assume he only considered new vehicles, but that's not how it works. 19:29:03 <Diablo-D3> you know what we need? 19:29:09 <Diablo-D3> a 2cc-like grf that just does wagons 19:29:26 <Diablo-D3> so everyone can use one standardized firs/whatever compatible wagon set 19:29:42 <V453000> go use nuts? :D 19:29:54 <V453000> has all kinds of cargoes for wagons 19:30:04 <Diablo-D3> nuts isnt realistic 19:30:05 <V453000> /even yeti :D 19:30:11 <V453000> no it indeed isnt 19:30:18 <V453000> wagon speed limits are 19:30:25 <Diablo-D3> wagon speed limits "are" 19:30:29 <Diablo-D3> but openttd cant handle them 19:30:37 <Diablo-D3> not in any way I've seen 19:30:52 <Diablo-D3> like, the way high speed pax rail in some grfs do it, its insane 19:30:53 <peter1138> Handles them fine as far as I can see. 19:31:09 <Diablo-D3> you have a special pax wagon thats really coded as an engine 19:31:21 <Diablo-D3> and it does all the proper shit that way 19:31:29 <Diablo-D3> but its a massive hack 19:31:39 <Phreeze> without units works ;) could have tried before... 19:32:03 <peter1138> Diablo-D3, maybe you refer to a specific set, but that is not necessary 19:32:06 <Phreeze> i DO wagon limits, cause i want realistic values 19:32:09 *** montalvo [~montalvo@ip24-253-22-95.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâŠ] 19:32:12 <Diablo-D3> peter1138: Ive seen multiple ones do it 19:32:15 <V453000> it will desync regardless Phreeze 19:32:21 <Phreeze> it makes no sense putting a 1890 wagon onto an engine that runs 200 19:32:23 <peter1138> Phreeze, still, don't use current year like that. 19:32:39 <Diablo-D3> Phreeze: no, it doesnt make sense but 19:32:41 <Phreeze> why not ? 19:32:46 <Phreeze> @peter 19:32:50 <peter1138> 20:27 < frosch123> changing vehicle properties while they are on the tracks, desyncs 19:32:55 <Diablo-D3> wagons should be able to change themselves based on the engine 19:34:05 <peter1138> I've never seen any set use engines for passenger wagons. 19:34:08 <planetmaker> Diablo-D3, no point to bitch about wagon speed limits. Just disable them, if you don't like them 19:34:27 <V453000> peter1138: I am assuming he means powered wagons 19:34:38 <Diablo-D3> peter1138: look at 2cc 19:34:41 *** kero [~keikoz@37.175.23.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:34:41 <Phreeze> testing it with cheat, works 19:34:42 <Diablo-D3> pretty sure thats how its doing it 19:34:49 <peter1138> Phreeze, test it with multiplayer 19:34:58 <peter1138> Phreeze, we DO know what we're talking about 19:35:15 <planetmaker> unbelievable, peter1138 ;) 19:35:27 <Phreeze> -.- k i'll do 2 wagons then 19:35:44 <Diablo-D3> can grf wagons check engines in the train? 19:35:46 <peter1138> You can, for example, do it on service date. 19:38:04 <peter1138> Diablo-D3, I think, but it's logical to get the head engine to do the checks. 19:38:30 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:39:10 <Diablo-D3> peter1138: yeah, but can the head engine change details about wagons? 19:39:22 <Diablo-D3> like, speed limit, cargo capacity, etc? 19:40:17 <peter1138> Point. 19:40:41 <V453000> yes, wagons can check which engine they are attached to, and adapt accordingly 19:40:47 <V453000> [nuts does that :P] 19:41:03 <Diablo-D3> so wouldnt that be an easier way of handling it instead of wagon version spam? 19:41:04 <peter1138> Trick with wagon speed limits. They don't apply if your wagon has a graphic override for the lead engine. 19:41:42 <Diablo-D3> peter1138: thats not really an issue 19:41:56 <Diablo-D3> if it is engine aware, it would just adapt normally 19:42:06 <Diablo-D3> since a wagon obviously cant go faster than it's engine anyhw 19:42:10 <peter1138> It means wagon speed limits don't apply to your high-speed trains with fancy graphics... 19:42:17 <Diablo-D3> see above. 19:42:47 <peter1138> Sure, but it's better to just not have to code anything extra like that. 19:43:04 <Diablo-D3> true, but how else would you handle it without doing multiple wagon versions? 19:44:42 *** moffi [~moffi@dsdf-4db524da.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:24 <Diablo-D3> peter1138: seriously, I just want interesting gameplay that isnt annoying 19:45:28 <peter1138> 20:42 <@peter1138> It means wagon speed limits don't apply to your high-speed trains with fancy graphics... 19:45:35 <peter1138> So yeah... 19:45:40 <Diablo-D3> yes but 19:45:48 <Diablo-D3> [03:42:24] <Diablo-D3> since a wagon obviously cant go faster than it's engine anyhw 19:46:04 <peter1138> What? 19:46:25 <Diablo-D3> okay, I have a wagon rated for 200mph, and an engine that goes 150 19:46:26 <peter1138> You don't make any sense, and you want things to be complex and simple at the same time. 19:46:31 <Diablo-D3> the wagon isnt going to go 200mph 19:46:36 <peter1138> Yes, so? 19:46:50 <Diablo-D3> so the bug where wagon speed limits not applying isnt the biggest issue 19:46:55 <Diablo-D3> or really an issue at all 19:47:02 <peter1138> It's not a bug. 19:47:06 <Diablo-D3> because the wagon can change what it is depending on the engine 19:47:23 <Diablo-D3> ergo, number of people, weight, graphic look, etc 19:47:33 <planetmaker> congratulations, you found out about a 5-year-old game feature, Diablo-D3 ;) 19:47:55 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: no, Ive been aware of what grfs can do for awhile now 19:48:05 <peter1138> So yeah, we're just left with the "omg it's annoying and complex and too simple" complaint which is bogus. 19:48:10 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: we're discussing on the sin of grfs having multiple versions of the same wagon 19:48:29 <Diablo-D3> peter1138: its not bogus, it just means you're incorrectly trying to simplify the problem 19:48:37 <V453000> while we should be discussion how it is idiotic to have wagon speed limits 19:48:41 <Diablo-D3> peter1138: complexity isn't a sin, being annoying is. 19:48:45 <V453000> discussing* (: 19:48:50 <Diablo-D3> V453000: I agree its idiotic 19:48:59 <Diablo-D3> but its idiotic to have multiple versions of the same wagon too 19:49:27 <V453000> not "too" 19:49:31 <V453000> additionally. 19:49:42 <V453000> no reason to do it if you dont have wagon speed limits 19:49:45 <planetmaker> multiple versions: no. If it's a better wagon, it's a separate one. speed limits for wagons need no discussion as everyone can choose what he likes. Whatever the grf says 19:50:11 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: yeah, but the reason to have wagon versions is to deal with how real world wagons got better 19:50:21 <Diablo-D3> so the wagon generation should match the engine generation 19:50:28 <planetmaker> that argument fails to work 19:50:37 <V453000> you Dont need to deal with how real world works XD 19:50:44 <Diablo-D3> V453000: this is true 19:50:48 <V453000> but yeah enjoy realism 19:50:50 <Diablo-D3> but people keep wanting to do it for some damned reason 19:51:13 <Diablo-D3> so wagons changing look and changing stats in response to engine is fine with me 19:51:46 <peter1138> Some people just want to treat it as a virtual train set, not an economy game. 19:51:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:51:57 <Diablo-D3> well, that'd be fine but 19:52:00 <peter1138> Speaking of which. 19:52:01 <Diablo-D3> openttd doesnt have a sandbox mode 19:52:10 <peter1138> OpenTTD IS sandbox... 19:52:16 <Diablo-D3> as in, no money 19:52:22 <V453000> XDXDXD 19:52:27 <peter1138> Eh, just cheat yourself some. 19:52:38 <Diablo-D3> are there servers that allow cheating? 19:53:01 <V453000> just have low prices? 19:53:05 <V453000> == no money 19:53:13 <Diablo-D3> V453000: true 19:53:27 <Diablo-D3> but having that sorta gets boring 19:53:27 <V453000> it isnt realistic though 19:53:31 <V453000> you cant play like that 19:53:33 <Diablo-D3> theres no goal 19:53:41 <V453000> openttd doesnt have a goal... 19:53:49 <Diablo-D3> like, I like the combination of options and grfs Im doing now 19:53:51 <V453000> Especially not money-related 19:53:54 <Diablo-D3> its hard to even start with a train 19:54:02 <Diablo-D3> you have to do a lot of vehicle play too 19:54:16 <V453000> that alone is retarded, making money is primitive, you transport far enough to make profit, or you dont 19:54:28 <V453000> which is why money is about nothing 19:54:37 <__ln__> Diablo-D3: you mean "it's" 19:54:47 <__ln__> V453000: you mean "don't" 19:54:54 <V453000> no I dont 19:54:56 <Diablo-D3> programmers prefer not to use '. 19:55:12 <Diablo-D3> you end up with unmatched single quotes. 19:55:24 <planetmaker> hackors do. Real programmers prefer exact and correct language 19:55:33 <Alberth> I don't like using dont 19:55:39 <Diablo-D3> lol planetmaker thinks he knows real programmers 19:55:42 <Diablo-D3> <3 19:55:52 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@177.35.40.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:00 <__ln__> Diablo-D3: no you won't if you plan your phrases so that there's a closing quote. <-- see 19:56:00 <Diablo-D3> V453000: but yes, there CAN be goals 19:56:00 <V453000> czech keyboard has no intelligent way to use the apostrophe and I do not like using the english one 19:56:02 <V453000> so dont is quite fine :P 19:56:07 <Diablo-D3> V453000: some servers do them 19:56:18 <V453000> Diablo-D3: which doesnt make them less primitive than the rest :) 19:56:30 <Diablo-D3> V453000: I actually like the goal servers, it gives openttd a point 19:57:07 <Phreeze> done the wagons, woop 19:57:55 <Alberth> V453000 uses his own goals, transport everything on the map, no need for a goal script :) 19:58:13 <Diablo-D3> heh, if I wanted to do that 19:58:21 <Diablo-D3> I'd figure out how to turn industry generation off completely 19:58:31 <V453000> playing for goals is simple, there is always some easy method towards it 19:58:55 <V453000> creating a properly working train network is where openttd has vast majority of its complexity 19:59:03 <V453000> hence a thing that can entertain you for years 19:59:12 <Diablo-D3> I used to do massive train networks 19:59:13 <V453000> actively playing and developing new things 19:59:15 <Diablo-D3> I gave up on that 19:59:37 <Diablo-D3> its easier to just do point to point runs 19:59:44 <Phreeze> whatis lame, are players starting with 1 huuuuuuuge train track, and then waiting 19:59:46 <V453000> easier, definitely 19:59:53 <Phreeze> or those spamming cities with bus-stops and airports... 20:00:06 <Diablo-D3> heh, I spam cities with bus stops to grow them 20:00:08 <V453000> will easier entertain your for years? building point to point tracks? probably not 20:00:17 <Diablo-D3> V453000: well it depends on what you play 20:00:26 <Phreeze> yeah, grow them fast, and transfer all the pax to the airport...transport them over the whole map, wait 20:00:26 <Diablo-D3> theres a huge part of the openttd community that play nothing but goal servers 20:00:59 <V453000> seriously if you enjoy building point-to-point tracks for a few years in a row, you are probably mentally challenged 20:01:05 <V453000> 0 progress or things to invent 20:01:13 <Diablo-D3> well with goal servers 20:01:21 <Diablo-D3> its not the enjoyment of doing it that is why we do it 20:01:28 <Diablo-D3> its that we do it faster than the other players 20:01:36 <V453000> OpenTTD is not starcraft 20:01:43 <Alberth> write an AI :) 20:01:45 <planetmaker> we should invite some sociologist or linguist. He'll enjoy this :P 20:01:59 <Diablo-D3> V453000: why cant it be both? 20:02:03 <V453000> and I strongly doubt any of the goal server people can build faster than the fastest people at openttdcoop 20:02:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:02:45 <Diablo-D3> V453000: I dunno, for me, to have openttd make sense as a fun sandbox game 20:03:02 <V453000> because you miss the whole complexity of building a bigger network :) 20:03:17 <Diablo-D3> maps would have to be bigger, cities would have to say 10x less population and generate 10x less population... 20:03:47 <Alberth> make a house grf 20:04:01 <V453000> ^ 20:04:03 <Diablo-D3> and the ticks to days would have to be somewhere between 5 to 25x smaller (ie, days take muuuch longer) 20:04:15 <V453000> days dont mean anything 20:04:30 <Diablo-D3> they do when a train trip that'd take days takes months 20:04:50 <V453000> which does not matter, openttd has no distance scale 20:05:00 <V453000> the train might be travelling 10 or 1000 kilometers 20:05:02 <Diablo-D3> it has an implied (and very broken) distance scale 20:05:04 <V453000> you cant know 20:05:17 <V453000> it isnt broken, it works perfectly 20:05:34 <Diablo-D3> building and road size and land tile granularity implies a scale 20:05:44 <V453000> not exactly 20:06:09 <planetmaker> there's no (consistent) scale. Not even possible, Diablo-D3 20:06:22 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: welllllllll 20:06:25 <Diablo-D3> it MIGHT be possible 20:06:34 <Diablo-D3> but it'd require a fair bit of changes to openttd 20:06:36 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 20:06:51 <V453000> openttd is a logic game not a simulator 20:06:59 <V453000> units are tiles, deal with it 20:07:17 <Diablo-D3> V453000: yes but when I allow it to be a logic game 20:07:29 <Diablo-D3> it turns into what you called starcraft 20:08:02 <V453000> no, playing quickly is not logical, that is just button mashing and repeating the task until you do it fast 20:08:12 <V453000> doesnt mean you use logical thinking to improve something 20:09:20 <Diablo-D3> V453000: well no, thats the thing 20:09:31 <Diablo-D3> I just start min-maxing every little thing 20:09:34 <frosch123> should we do a gs about competitive fast building? 20:09:35 <Diablo-D3> and tweak every little thing 20:09:40 <Diablo-D3> for maximum proft 20:09:46 <frosch123> ten days to build track from A to B 20:09:48 <Diablo-D3> I end up not enjoying it 20:10:02 <planetmaker> frosch123, "subsidies+"? :) 20:10:02 <frosch123> 5 days pause, 10 days for next challenge 20:10:04 <Diablo-D3> theres no beauty in openttd being a logic game 20:10:15 <frosch123> planetmaker: no, i mean way shorter 20:10:32 <V453000> XD 20:10:35 <Diablo-D3> btw, what license is the openttd graphics under? 20:10:41 <planetmaker> subsidy could be expanded. Not only service. But connection suffices. Maybe by road instead 20:10:48 <frosch123> and, not in a way, where your main goal is to block other players :p 20:10:50 <frosch123> that's silly 20:11:01 <V453000> frosch123: DEATH MATCH 20:11:21 <frosch123> Diablo-D3: there are "license" buttons everywhere in ottd 20:29:18 <Phreeze> dont talk about licenses^^ 20:35:50 <Wolf01> 'night 20:35:58 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:38:10 *** Guest2322 [~George@185.43.94.91] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39:12 *** George [~George@185.43.94.91] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:11 *** George [~George@185.43.94.91] has joined #openttd 20:46:58 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-8421.vo.lu] has quit [] 20:50:06 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:52:16 *** mrdaft is now known as daft 20:52:52 *** daft is now known as smbdaft 20:53:43 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B919.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:17 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:15:04 <planetmaker> g'night 21:15:16 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:26 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:16:37 *** LSky` [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 21:34:25 *** montalvo [~montalvo@ip24-253-22-95.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #openttd 21:35:39 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C39AF.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 21:36:50 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 21:53:05 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:13:26 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:6506:2cb8:25f4:cf14] has quit [Quit: .] 22:13:56 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01ccd7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:17:10 *** MTsPony [~marctraid@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 22:24:16 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 22:25:34 *** MTsPony [~marctraid@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 22:25:55 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [] 22:39:55 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:45:57 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:56:34 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 22:59:51 *** jinks [~jinks@172.245.35.67] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 23:00:03 *** jinks [~jinks@172.245.35.67] has joined #openttd 23:04:24 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 23:31:50 *** Afdal [~chatzilla@host-174-45-188-234.chy-wy.client.bresnan.net] has joined #openttd 23:32:20 *** Afdal [~chatzilla@host-174-45-188-234.chy-wy.client.bresnan.net] has left #openttd []