Log for #openttd on 15th July 2014:
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07:02:06  <Eddi|zuHause> "flight of the world champions is two hours delayed"... how is this a top news item again?
07:11:58  <Rubidium> I'd say the only real news would be that it's delayed indefinitely due to landing in the Atlantic rather uncontrolled
07:12:24  <V453000> the only real new is that yetis will get their home
07:13:14  <planetmaker> moin
07:13:22  <planetmaker> Rubidium, like AF 447? ;)
07:14:40  <Rubidium> yup
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09:21:06  <V453000> ? :D
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09:27:51  <Xaroth|Work> lol V453000
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13:51:36  <peter1138> We would like you to be the first to know of an exciting update to This week, Ohloh will be changing its name to the Black Duck Open Hub.
13:51:40  <peter1138> Oh really...
13:53:08  <Xaroth|Work> o_O
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17:11:24  <planetmaker> o/
17:11:34  <planetmaker> evenink
17:11:41  <frosch123> hai
17:12:15  <Alberth> o/
17:12:51  <frosch123> <- planetmaker: btw. would you like to abuse your powers and add as alternative to svn
17:12:58  <frosch123> imo artists are more likely to have an hg client :p
17:13:06  <Rubidium> ehlo
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17:16:36  <planetmaker> like that?
17:16:53  <frosch123> :)
17:17:19  <frosch123> the "Source?" slighly lower is somewhat redundant
17:17:28  <frosch123> no idea what's that about
17:19:55  <planetmaker> well :)
17:20:00  <planetmaker> added that there, too
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17:39:04  <V453000> how do I make an industry get a requirement to be in/near to a town?
17:39:26  <V453000> got a 2X2 tile worker yard :)
17:39:29  <planetmaker> location check upon construction
17:39:36  <planetmaker> it's a callback
17:40:13  <planetmaker>  location_check
17:40:19  <planetmaker>
17:40:53  <V453000> yarr, that I saw, but how do I detect the town/distance from town?
17:41:55  <planetmaker> check the town_manhattan_dist or town_euclidean_dist or town_zone variable?
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17:42:38  <V453000> ahaa! thanks! (:
17:44:31  <frosch123> the default industries know two types of "near town"
17:44:43  <frosch123> the toy shop needs to be within 15 tiles of the city center or something like that
17:44:55  <frosch123> and the temp bank is build over houses (replacing them)
17:45:02  <frosch123> the former fails if there are houses everywhere
17:45:10  <frosch123> the latter fails if there are no houses :p
17:45:19  <frosch123> i cannot remember whether there was something that works with both
17:45:29  <planetmaker> finding a 4x4 area of houses to replace will likely fail, too :)
17:45:50  <V453000> :D
17:45:52  <V453000> I use 2x2 now :P
17:45:52  <frosch123> the screenshot was only 2x2, wasn't it?
17:45:57  <V453000> ye
17:46:10  <planetmaker> well, that might work indeed then
17:46:23  <planetmaker> replacing a banking tower by a yeti hut :P
17:46:23  <V453000> I think I want the toy shop approach I guess
17:46:41  <planetmaker> is that an industry or a house, technically, V453000 ?
17:46:46  <V453000> industry
17:46:51  <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> finding a 4x4 area of houses to replace will likely fail, too :) <-- well, if there are 4 stadiums... :p
17:47:14  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, won't happen for 2 of the 3 possible town layouts :)
17:47:34  <Eddi|zuHause> there are 4 different town layouts
17:47:59  <planetmaker> ok, so 2 of 4 :)
17:49:07  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway... if you use the house replacement, then your industry will likely be in the center of towns, if you don't, your industry will likely be on the outskirts of towns (and the towns later grow around it)
17:49:39  <frosch123> V453000: actually the toyshow allows both, house and non-house
17:50:08  <andythenorth> rio/
17:50:15  <andythenorth> ?
17:50:16  <andythenorth> o/
17:50:19  <frosch123> V453000: so, IND_FLAG_BUILT_NEAR_TOWN  is your best try
17:50:30  <Eddi|zuHause> rio was two days ago. today is berlin
17:50:51  <V453000> oh :)
17:52:43  <V453000> frosch123: that looks functional :)
17:52:54  <V453000> the other one didnt quite seem to work for some reason, I had something wrong
17:54:02  <V453000> hm wtf :D "town_manhattan_dist" is a function and should be called using the function call syntax
17:54:06  <V453000> what is function call?
17:54:34  <planetmaker> town_manhattan_dist(0,0)
17:54:40  <planetmaker> it requires (relative) coordinates
17:54:46  <V453000> :0
17:55:02  <V453000> hahaa
17:55:05  <V453000> that works indeed (:
17:55:46  <planetmaker> btw, that's why it's in the section "variables that require an argument" :P
17:56:16  <planetmaker> s/an argument/some parameters/
17:56:50  <V453000> too small letters XD
18:01:51  <planetmaker> sorry, I thought you had better eyes than your Yeti :P
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18:02:17  <frosch123> yeah, but there is a big yeti sitting in his lap
18:02:20  <V453000> not quite :D
18:02:22  <frosch123> blocking the view
18:02:37  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26689 /extra/website (6 files in 3 dirs) (2014-07-15 18:02:30 UTC)
18:02:38  <DorpsGek> [website] -Fix-ish: do not switch deliberately between https and http for links
18:02:38  <V453000> I am getting ultra lost in the whole NML page about industries :P
18:02:39  <DorpsGek> [website] -Update: version numbers, copyright year, sponsor links and the likes
18:04:02  <andythenorth> V453000: I find the nfo pages useful
18:04:33  <planetmaker> V453000, how can it be made better? (honest question)
18:04:51  <planetmaker> andythenorth, that page doesn't explain callbacks ;)
18:04:59  <V453000> planetmaker: I think it is written well
18:05:14  <V453000> I am just lost in the huge amount of stuff
18:05:23  <planetmaker> V453000, I've the feeling, too, that it's a bit long. It's not always intuitive to find stuff. No, also not for me
18:05:27  <planetmaker> whom I wrote much of it :P
18:05:41  <frosch123> planetmaker: is there a reason why industry and indtile aren't separate pages?
18:06:05  <planetmaker> frosch123, the reason is like "if you write an industry you need it both". But nothing else, iirc
18:06:10  <frosch123> (except that it is the same for the way shorter airport page)
18:06:28  <frosch123> planetmaker: well, then you should put the "grf" item on every page :p
18:06:33  <planetmaker> :P
18:07:01  <frosch123> problem is imho, that you cannot easily tell whether you are looking at indtile or industry properties
18:07:06  <frosch123> when looking at a big table
18:07:26  <planetmaker> could be made separate, I guess
18:07:31  <frosch123> (distinguishing properties/variables/callbacks is easier)
18:08:10  <frosch123> ah, i have 50 minutes left anyway
18:08:13  <frosch123> i'll split it
18:08:32  <planetmaker> 50 minutes?
18:08:56  <planetmaker> does little froggy have to be in bed at nine? :P
18:10:20  <frosch123> he, that actually reminded me of something :p
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18:10:35  <planetmaker> :)
18:10:38  <frosch123> i also had some other task to do
18:10:49  <frosch123> won't take 50 minutes though :p
18:11:51  * planetmaker continues with requests lib and jenkins api
18:12:00  * andythenorth wants to speed up FIRS
18:12:11  <andythenorth> tonight is not enough time though
18:12:24  <andythenorth> planetmaker: would you have some time to look at the evil I did to Iron Horse makefile?
18:12:33  <andythenorth> it’s only a line, but evil
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18:13:17  <planetmaker> I guess I do
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18:14:36  <andythenorth> L254
18:14:37  <andythenorth>
18:14:48  <andythenorth> I’ve made an NML makefile use grfcodec
18:14:53  <andythenorth> it works, but it’s wrong
18:15:24  <planetmaker> he, does iron horse use no nml at all anymore?
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18:15:46  <Phreeze> hiho
18:15:47  <planetmaker> can you explain to me the build process?
18:15:50  <andythenorth> yes
18:16:10  <planetmaker> yes=no nml or yes=can explain? :P
18:16:12  <andythenorth> python classes + templates -> nml files -> nfo files -> single nfo file -> grfcodec
18:16:32  <planetmaker> ok
18:16:57  <andythenorth> boatloads of nml :)
18:17:05  <andythenorth> I’m not going back to writing nfo
18:17:13  <andythenorth> I have that T-shirt already
18:18:14  <planetmaker> ok... where is nml called now in that makefile when you replaced it by a call to grfcodec?
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18:19:49  <andythenorth>
18:19:57  <andythenorth> L56 and so
18:19:58  <frosch123> hmm, there are some shared parts on that page...
18:20:03  <frosch123> splitting is not that easy :p
18:20:09  <frosch123> common variables, common callback results
18:20:13  <andythenorth> for the record the Makefile could probably replace 80% of the python script, but I probably won’t for IH
18:20:23  <andythenorth> but probably will try a Makefile for FIRS
18:21:18  <planetmaker> if you generate the nfo already in that, then the change you made is the simplest way to adjust Makefile
18:21:34  <planetmaker> no need to make it more complicated
18:21:59  <andythenorth> it doesn’t break anything particularly?
18:22:18  <planetmaker> not that I'm aware of
18:22:19  <andythenorth> I think I throw away a lot of the effort around things like nml version?
18:22:46  <planetmaker> well, yes. you do that by calling nml in the python script
18:22:57  <planetmaker> but on the other hand: all those nml version checks mostly are not needed
18:23:05  <planetmaker> so... do you care as long as it works with nml tip?
18:23:35  <andythenorth> I’m happy if it works with nml tip :)
18:23:53  <andythenorth> it has a few edge cases if the compile fails on the first run
18:24:01  <Alberth> let's hope nml tip itself works too :p
18:24:14  <planetmaker> :)
18:25:12  <planetmaker> andythenorth, what *might* also work: use the default makefile, and re-define the NML and NML_FLAGS variables to "grfcodec" and "-e -s" or whatever :)
18:25:28  <planetmaker> but that might be more confusing than helpful
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18:26:39  <Alberth> \o\o
18:26:55  <Wolf01> hi hi
18:27:25  <__ln__> ciao
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18:37:12  <planetmaker> andythenorth, anyhow, in summary, I'd leave the file like that. Unless the should be replaced (in parts)
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18:37:54  <planetmaker> lol
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18:46:02  <andythenorth> crashy mac is crashy
18:48:51  <planetmaker> it is. What I just said before the crash: leave the Makefile as-is. Unless you really want to de-compose the file into a pure and a Makfile part
18:53:15  <frosch123> V453000: i hope the page is shorter now
18:53:28  <V453000> (:
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19:22:53  <Phreeze> when i set speed of a waggon according to the current year, what unit must i use ?
19:22:59  <Phreeze> switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF,sw_wegmann_speed,current_year) {
19:22:59  <Phreeze> 1965 .. 1980: 120 km/h;
19:23:10  <Phreeze> is meh -> km/h not recognized
19:25:43  <peter1138> Don't change variables based on current year.
19:26:15  <Phreeze> -.-
19:26:31  <Phreeze> so i have to create the wagon twice ? that's lame
19:26:32  <V453000> idk I always used :120; without km/h
19:26:44  <V453000> omfg wagon speed limits XD
19:26:59  <Diablo-D3> Phreeze: no, dont do wagon speed limits
19:27:03  <Diablo-D3> its fucking annoying
19:27:18  <frosch123> changing vehicle properties while they are on the tracks, desyncs
19:27:27  <Diablo-D3> its one of the things I hate about 2cc
19:27:41  <Diablo-D3> I like all the engines, but having multiple types of the same wagon is a pita
19:27:56  <Diablo-D3> especially when most of them are never used because most people start in the 40s/50s/60s
19:28:16  <planetmaker> changing vehicle stats without refit sucks big time anyway
19:28:34  <planetmaker> and time updates with different stats kills autoreplace. Thus a BAD FEATURE. Use a new vehicleID instead
19:28:42  <peter1138> I assume he only considered new vehicles, but that's not how it works.
19:29:03  <Diablo-D3> you know what we need?
19:29:09  <Diablo-D3> a 2cc-like grf that just does wagons
19:29:26  <Diablo-D3> so everyone can use one standardized firs/whatever compatible wagon set
19:29:42  <V453000> go use nuts? :D
19:29:54  <V453000> has all kinds of cargoes for wagons
19:30:04  <Diablo-D3> nuts isnt realistic
19:30:05  <V453000>  /even yeti :D
19:30:11  <V453000> no it indeed isnt
19:30:18  <V453000> wagon speed limits are
19:30:25  <Diablo-D3> wagon speed limits "are"
19:30:29  <Diablo-D3> but openttd cant handle them
19:30:37  <Diablo-D3> not in any way I've seen
19:30:52  <Diablo-D3> like, the way high speed pax rail in some grfs do it, its insane
19:30:53  <peter1138> Handles them fine as far as I can see.
19:31:09  <Diablo-D3> you have a special pax wagon thats really coded as an engine
19:31:21  <Diablo-D3> and it does all the proper shit that way
19:31:29  <Diablo-D3> but its a massive hack
19:31:39  <Phreeze> without units works ;) could have tried before...
19:32:03  <peter1138> Diablo-D3, maybe you refer to a specific set, but that is not necessary
19:32:06  <Phreeze> i DO wagon limits, cause i want realistic values
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19:32:12  <Diablo-D3> peter1138: Ive seen multiple ones do it
19:32:15  <V453000> it will desync regardless Phreeze
19:32:21  <Phreeze> it makes no sense putting a 1890 wagon onto an engine that runs 200
19:32:23  <peter1138> Phreeze, still, don't use current year like that.
19:32:39  <Diablo-D3> Phreeze: no, it doesnt make sense but
19:32:41  <Phreeze> why not ?
19:32:46  <Phreeze> @peter
19:32:50  <peter1138> 20:27 < frosch123> changing vehicle properties while they are on the tracks, desyncs
19:32:55  <Diablo-D3> wagons should be able to change themselves based on the engine
19:34:05  <peter1138> I've never seen any set use engines for passenger wagons.
19:34:08  <planetmaker> Diablo-D3, no point to bitch about wagon speed limits. Just disable them, if you don't like them
19:34:27  <V453000> peter1138: I am assuming he means powered wagons
19:34:38  <Diablo-D3> peter1138: look at 2cc
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19:34:41  <Phreeze> testing it with cheat, works
19:34:42  <Diablo-D3> pretty sure thats how its doing it
19:34:49  <peter1138> Phreeze, test it with multiplayer
19:34:58  <peter1138> Phreeze, we DO know what we're talking about
19:35:15  <planetmaker> unbelievable, peter1138 ;)
19:35:27  <Phreeze> -.- k i'll do 2 wagons then
19:35:44  <Diablo-D3> can grf wagons check engines in the train?
19:35:46  <peter1138> You can, for example, do it on service date.
19:38:04  <peter1138> Diablo-D3, I think, but it's logical to get the head engine to do the checks.
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19:39:10  <Diablo-D3> peter1138: yeah, but can the head engine change details about wagons?
19:39:22  <Diablo-D3> like, speed limit, cargo capacity, etc?
19:40:17  <peter1138> Point.
19:40:41  <V453000> yes, wagons can check which engine they are attached to, and adapt accordingly
19:40:47  <V453000> [nuts does that :P]
19:41:03  <Diablo-D3> so wouldnt that be an easier way of handling it instead of wagon version spam?
19:41:04  <peter1138> Trick with wagon speed limits. They don't apply if your wagon has a graphic override for the lead engine.
19:41:42  <Diablo-D3> peter1138: thats not really an issue
19:41:56  <Diablo-D3> if it is engine aware, it would just adapt normally
19:42:06  <Diablo-D3> since a wagon obviously cant go faster than it's engine anyhw
19:42:10  <peter1138> It means wagon speed limits don't apply to your high-speed trains with fancy graphics...
19:42:17  <Diablo-D3> see above.
19:42:47  <peter1138> Sure, but it's better to just not have to code anything extra like that.
19:43:04  <Diablo-D3> true, but how else would you handle it without doing multiple wagon versions?
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19:45:24  <Diablo-D3> peter1138: seriously, I just want interesting gameplay that isnt annoying
19:45:28  <peter1138> 20:42 <@peter1138> It means wagon speed limits don't apply to your high-speed trains with fancy graphics...
19:45:35  <peter1138> So yeah...
19:45:40  <Diablo-D3> yes but
19:45:48  <Diablo-D3> [03:42:24] <Diablo-D3> since a wagon obviously cant go faster than it's engine anyhw
19:46:04  <peter1138> What?
19:46:25  <Diablo-D3> okay, I have a wagon rated for 200mph, and an engine that goes 150
19:46:26  <peter1138> You don't make any sense, and you want things to be complex and simple at the same time.
19:46:31  <Diablo-D3> the wagon isnt going to go 200mph
19:46:36  <peter1138> Yes, so?
19:46:50  <Diablo-D3> so the bug where wagon speed limits not applying isnt the biggest issue
19:46:55  <Diablo-D3> or really an issue at all
19:47:02  <peter1138> It's not a bug.
19:47:06  <Diablo-D3> because the wagon can change what it is depending on the engine
19:47:23  <Diablo-D3> ergo, number of people, weight, graphic look, etc
19:47:33  <planetmaker> congratulations, you found out about a 5-year-old game feature, Diablo-D3 ;)
19:47:55  <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: no, Ive been aware of what grfs can do for awhile now
19:48:05  <peter1138> So yeah, we're just left with the "omg it's annoying and complex and too simple" complaint which is bogus.
19:48:10  <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: we're discussing on the sin of grfs having multiple versions of the same wagon
19:48:29  <Diablo-D3> peter1138: its not bogus, it just means you're incorrectly trying to simplify the problem
19:48:37  <V453000> while we should be discussion how it is idiotic to have wagon speed limits
19:48:41  <Diablo-D3> peter1138: complexity isn't a sin, being annoying is.
19:48:45  <V453000> discussing* (:
19:48:50  <Diablo-D3> V453000: I agree its idiotic
19:48:59  <Diablo-D3> but its idiotic to have multiple versions of the same wagon too
19:49:27  <V453000> not "too"
19:49:31  <V453000> additionally.
19:49:42  <V453000> no reason to do it if you dont have wagon speed limits
19:49:45  <planetmaker> multiple versions: no. If it's a better wagon, it's a separate one. speed limits for wagons need no discussion as everyone can choose what he likes. Whatever the grf says
19:50:11  <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: yeah, but the reason to have wagon versions is to deal with how real world wagons got better
19:50:21  <Diablo-D3> so the wagon generation should match the engine generation
19:50:28  <planetmaker> that argument fails to work
19:50:37  <V453000> you Dont need to deal with how real world works XD
19:50:44  <Diablo-D3> V453000: this is true
19:50:48  <V453000> but yeah enjoy realism
19:50:50  <Diablo-D3> but people keep wanting to do it for some damned reason
19:51:13  <Diablo-D3> so wagons changing look and changing stats in response to engine is fine with me
19:51:46  <peter1138> Some people just want to treat it as a virtual train set, not an economy game.
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19:51:57  <Diablo-D3> well, that'd be fine but
19:52:00  <peter1138> Speaking of which.
19:52:01  <Diablo-D3> openttd doesnt have a sandbox mode
19:52:10  <peter1138> OpenTTD IS sandbox...
19:52:16  <Diablo-D3> as in, no money
19:52:22  <V453000> XDXDXD
19:52:27  <peter1138> Eh, just cheat yourself some.
19:52:38  <Diablo-D3> are there servers that allow cheating?
19:53:01  <V453000> just have low prices?
19:53:05  <V453000> == no money
19:53:13  <Diablo-D3> V453000: true
19:53:27  <Diablo-D3> but having that sorta gets boring
19:53:27  <V453000> it isnt realistic though
19:53:31  <V453000> you cant play like that
19:53:33  <Diablo-D3> theres no goal
19:53:41  <V453000> openttd doesnt have a goal...
19:53:49  <Diablo-D3> like, I like the combination of options and grfs Im doing now
19:53:51  <V453000> Especially not money-related
19:53:54  <Diablo-D3> its hard to even start with a train
19:54:02  <Diablo-D3> you have to do a lot of vehicle play too
19:54:16  <V453000> that alone is retarded, making money is primitive, you transport far enough to make profit, or you dont
19:54:28  <V453000> which is why money is about nothing
19:54:37  <__ln__> Diablo-D3: you mean "it's"
19:54:47  <__ln__> V453000: you mean "don't"
19:54:54  <V453000> no I dont
19:54:56  <Diablo-D3> programmers prefer not to use '.
19:55:12  <Diablo-D3> you end up with unmatched single quotes.
19:55:24  <planetmaker> hackors do. Real programmers prefer exact and correct language
19:55:33  <Alberth> I don't like using dont
19:55:39  <Diablo-D3> lol planetmaker thinks he knows real programmers
19:55:42  <Diablo-D3> <3
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19:56:00  <__ln__> Diablo-D3: no you won't if you plan your phrases so that there's a closing quote.  <-- see
19:56:00  <Diablo-D3> V453000: but yes, there CAN be goals
19:56:00  <V453000> czech keyboard has no intelligent way to use the apostrophe and I do not like using the english one
19:56:02  <V453000> so dont is quite fine :P
19:56:07  <Diablo-D3> V453000: some servers do them
19:56:18  <V453000> Diablo-D3: which doesnt make them less primitive than the rest :)
19:56:30  <Diablo-D3> V453000: I actually like the goal servers, it gives openttd a point
19:57:07  <Phreeze> done the wagons, woop
19:57:55  <Alberth> V453000 uses his own goals, transport everything on the map, no need for a goal script :)
19:58:13  <Diablo-D3> heh, if I wanted to do that
19:58:21  <Diablo-D3> I'd figure out how to turn industry generation off completely
19:58:31  <V453000> playing for goals is simple, there is always some easy method towards it
19:58:55  <V453000> creating a properly working train network is where openttd has vast majority of its complexity
19:59:03  <V453000> hence a thing that can entertain you for years
19:59:12  <Diablo-D3> I used to do massive train networks
19:59:13  <V453000> actively playing and developing new things
19:59:15  <Diablo-D3> I gave up on that
19:59:37  <Diablo-D3> its easier to just do point to point runs
19:59:44  <Phreeze> whatis lame, are players starting with 1 huuuuuuuge train track, and then waiting
19:59:46  <V453000> easier, definitely
19:59:53  <Phreeze> or those spamming cities with bus-stops and airports...
20:00:06  <Diablo-D3> heh, I spam cities with bus stops to grow them
20:00:08  <V453000> will easier entertain your for years? building point to point tracks? probably not
20:00:17  <Diablo-D3> V453000: well it depends on what you play
20:00:26  <Phreeze> yeah, grow them fast, and transfer all the pax to the airport...transport them over the whole map, wait
20:00:26  <Diablo-D3> theres a huge part of the openttd community that play nothing but goal servers
20:00:59  <V453000> seriously if you enjoy building point-to-point tracks for a few years in a row, you are probably mentally challenged
20:01:05  <V453000> 0 progress or things to invent
20:01:13  <Diablo-D3> well with goal servers
20:01:21  <Diablo-D3> its not the enjoyment of doing it that is why we do it
20:01:28  <Diablo-D3> its that we do it faster than the other players
20:01:36  <V453000> OpenTTD is not starcraft
20:01:43  <Alberth> write an AI :)
20:01:45  <planetmaker> we should invite some sociologist or linguist. He'll enjoy this :P
20:01:59  <Diablo-D3> V453000: why cant it be both?
20:02:03  <V453000> and I strongly doubt any of the goal server people can build faster than the fastest people at openttdcoop
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20:02:45  <Diablo-D3> V453000: I dunno, for me, to have openttd make sense as a fun sandbox game
20:03:02  <V453000> because you miss the whole complexity of building a bigger network :)
20:03:17  <Diablo-D3> maps would have to be bigger, cities would have to say 10x less population and generate 10x less population...
20:03:47  <Alberth> make a house grf
20:04:01  <V453000> ^
20:04:03  <Diablo-D3> and the ticks to days would have to be somewhere between 5 to 25x smaller (ie, days take muuuch longer)
20:04:15  <V453000> days dont mean anything
20:04:30  <Diablo-D3> they do when a train trip that'd take days takes months
20:04:50  <V453000> which does not matter, openttd has no distance scale
20:05:00  <V453000> the train might be travelling 10 or 1000 kilometers
20:05:02  <Diablo-D3> it has an implied (and very broken) distance scale
20:05:04  <V453000> you cant know
20:05:17  <V453000> it isnt broken, it works perfectly
20:05:34  <Diablo-D3> building and road size and land tile granularity implies a scale
20:05:44  <V453000> not exactly
20:06:09  <planetmaker> there's no (consistent) scale. Not even possible, Diablo-D3
20:06:22  <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: welllllllll
20:06:25  <Diablo-D3> it MIGHT be possible
20:06:34  <Diablo-D3> but it'd require a fair bit of changes to openttd
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20:06:51  <V453000> openttd is a logic game not a simulator
20:06:59  <V453000> units are tiles, deal with it
20:07:17  <Diablo-D3> V453000: yes but when I allow it to be a logic game
20:07:29  <Diablo-D3> it turns into what you called starcraft
20:08:02  <V453000> no, playing quickly is not logical, that is just button mashing and repeating the task until you do it fast
20:08:12  <V453000> doesnt mean you use logical thinking to improve something
20:09:20  <Diablo-D3> V453000: well no, thats the thing
20:09:31  <Diablo-D3> I just start min-maxing every little thing
20:09:34  <frosch123> should we do a gs about competitive fast building?
20:09:35  <Diablo-D3> and tweak every little thing
20:09:40  <Diablo-D3> for maximum proft
20:09:46  <frosch123> ten days to build track from A to B
20:09:48  <Diablo-D3> I end up not enjoying it
20:10:02  <planetmaker> frosch123, "subsidies+"? :)
20:10:02  <frosch123> 5 days pause, 10 days for next challenge
20:10:04  <Diablo-D3> theres no beauty in openttd being a logic game
20:10:15  <frosch123> planetmaker: no, i mean way shorter
20:10:32  <V453000> XD
20:10:35  <Diablo-D3> btw, what license is the openttd graphics under?
20:10:41  <planetmaker> subsidy could be expanded. Not only service. But connection suffices. Maybe by road instead
20:10:48  <frosch123> and, not in a way, where your main goal is to block other players :p
20:10:50  <frosch123> that's silly
20:11:01  <V453000> frosch123: DEATH MATCH
20:11:21  <frosch123> Diablo-D3: there are "license" buttons everywhere in ottd
20:29:18  <Phreeze> dont talk about licenses^^
20:35:50  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:15:04  <planetmaker> g'night
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