Log for #openttd on 17th July 2014:
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11:40:39  <V453000> behold the pigcow
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11:41:12  <__ln__> looks rendered
11:42:19  <planetmaker> lol, V453000 :)
11:44:06  <peter1138> Seems quite in here today, is someone missing? :p
11:47:10  <__ln__> Bjarni's not here.
11:48:20  <V453000> :)
11:48:58  <planetmaker> @calc 123456 / 24*3600
11:48:58  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 18518400
11:49:03  <planetmaker> @calc 123456 / (24*3600)
11:49:03  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 1.42888888889
11:49:16  <planetmaker> 1.428 days quiet, starting yesterday evening ;)
11:49:51  <V453000> :d wa
11:50:07  <peter1138> Huh?
11:50:22  <planetmaker> [22:38] <frosch123> @kban Diablo-D3 123456 don't disrupt my patch reviews
11:50:22  <peter1138> Oh, it was 123456 seconds long?
11:50:25  <planetmaker> yeah :P
11:50:46  <planetmaker> @help kban
11:50:46  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: (kban [<channel>] [--{exact,nick,user,host}] <nick> [<seconds>] [<reason>]) -- If you have the #channel,op capability, this will kickban <nick> for as many seconds as you specify, or else (if you specify 0 seconds or don't specify a number of seconds) it will ban the person indefinitely. --exact bans only the exact hostmask; --nick bans just the nick; --user bans just the user, and --host bans (1 more message)
11:51:07  <V453000> LOL
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12:29:46  <planetmaker> V453000, the most difficult part with the pigcow is probably giving the cow a more plastic look so that the hair doesn't look quite so printed :)
12:30:16  <planetmaker> maybe adding some surface roughness already would do the trick. Not sure though. Nor how easy that is
12:30:20  <V453000> I had it set up but the render would take a bit too long :P
12:30:39  <V453000> I made "real" fur, but rendering it takes like 2 hours per frame with the setup I had :D
12:30:51  <V453000> and since the animals are going to be zoomed out, it will be ok this way
12:30:59  <planetmaker> the path around the iglu looks much better now. Though I'm not 100% happy with the colour of the path... making it more bleached-out than the surrounding looks a bit weired
12:31:11  <V453000> mhm :)
12:31:27  <V453000> ALSO, proper mapping would help the fur majorly
12:31:35  <planetmaker> maybe I'd make it rather darker or another colour than the same just lighter
12:31:49  <V453000> it looks so printed because there is a lot of stretching, but unwrapping the UV mapping is work for 1-2 hours alone
12:32:07  <planetmaker> oi, I see. I feared that :)
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12:32:18  <V453000> I will do it anyway :P
12:32:28  <V453000> and yeah might adjust the path too
12:32:55  <planetmaker> it could also do with more grass at the front edge. Grass tends to grow among stuff which people just pile up :)
12:33:14  <planetmaker> mind, this is criticising on extremely high level ;)
12:33:41  <V453000> :DD
12:33:56  <V453000> it is BUSY junk
12:34:03  <V453000> they add and remove it often :P
12:34:07  <V453000> no grass :>
12:34:23  <planetmaker> no grass towards their path side. But towards our view side :)
12:35:04  <V453000> will see :D
12:59:30  <V453000> cute, whole yeti scene has 875k polygons
13:26:12  <peter1138> Render it every frame!
13:28:19  <planetmaker> don't ask for that peter1138
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13:35:40  <V453000> what :D
13:38:00  <Eddi|zuHause> we clearly need a proper 3D engine :p
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13:38:22  <Eddi|zuHause> all the problems will be solved!
13:38:38  <Eddi|zuHause> and add cubicles while at it!
13:40:29  <V453000> gg
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13:51:23  <planetmaker> one problem will remain: the missing undo-knob
14:00:28  <V453000> :D
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14:05:19  <V453000>
14:05:21  <V453000> .
14:05:52  <planetmaker> loool
14:05:55  <planetmaker> awesome
14:06:22  <planetmaker> may I nitpick?
14:06:33  <ATS63> heh... higher res images would be cool :)
14:06:49  <planetmaker> ATS63, that is for real in OpenTTD. Just like shown there...
14:06:49  <Eddi|zuHause> why is the thing lieing on its back?
14:07:30  <planetmaker> V453000, the house, it should not 'float'. thus add some irregularity to its foundation. Where dirt is against the wall or a small hole where it sticks out slightly more
14:08:16  <V453000> yarr, agree 100%
14:08:17  <planetmaker> or generally make the courtjard slightly less plane surface. Similarily have the dirt heap have somewhat more irregular edge / transition to ground
14:08:44  <planetmaker> the sun-lit small side of the building is too white
14:09:27  <planetmaker> the animals are thirsty. They need some water in each pen. And maybe a place to feed, too
14:09:34  <V453000> XD
14:09:36  <V453000> y
14:09:41  <V453000> good iea
14:09:53  <V453000> idea
14:09:57  <planetmaker> why does the big fat one not leave? Use a chain to keep it in place
14:10:16  <ATS63> wtf. I just discovered zBase
14:10:29  <V453000> XD
14:10:40  <V453000> it is too fat to walk? :P
14:10:45  <planetmaker> :P
14:10:50  <V453000> but yeah some chains would be awesome there :D
14:11:18  <ATS63> Fat is the better part of pork loin & belly :/
14:11:36  <V453000> XD
14:11:51  <planetmaker> V453000, and I expect the pens to have a gate / entry. Thus a place where the farmer can open it to take on out to the butchers
14:12:24  <V453000> there actually are gates, but they are like completely undistinguishable to the actual fence :D
14:12:32  <planetmaker> :D
14:12:36  <planetmaker> fair enough :P
14:12:50  <planetmaker> make a chain on one end of the segment, then it's a distinguishable gate
14:12:52  <V453000> but yeah, good details to add
14:13:28  <planetmaker> and maybe some small scrubs / bushes growing through fences
14:13:36  <planetmaker> one of them could even chew on it
14:14:24  <Eddi|zuHause> man, this british set was just (re)started, and they are on the brink of collapsing again over the discussion whether to reuse old sprites or start from scratch?
14:14:27  <V453000> yeah, modelling plants is a bit of an issue though :P
14:15:07  <Eddi|zuHause> yeti plants?
14:15:13  <V453000> any plants :)
14:15:38  <Eddi|zuHause> if there's "elephant grass", why shouldn't there be "yeti grass"?
14:15:49  <V453000> valid point
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15:08:02  <V453000> planetmaker: some people are actually USING the 3AA, 3X, etc industry names :P
15:09:05  <planetmaker> V453000, yes, they will. But still, the with those in the name, the beauty of the graphics is not matched by the names
15:09:15  <V453000> :)
15:09:24  <planetmaker> you don't name your trains like "01D slug" either
15:09:28  <V453000> -> I add the numbers into graphics? :P
15:09:31  <V453000> well I could! :D
15:09:46  <planetmaker> the graphics are distinct enough that you don't need them
15:10:09  <planetmaker> really, how difficult is it to distinguish default industries? And you don't have more
15:10:27  <V453000> super tough!
15:10:30  <V453000> k iznt :P
15:11:25  <V453000> I just care about the sorting thingy
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15:18:35  <planetmaker> o/
15:18:51  <planetmaker> added my irc suggestions also to forum to give it more replies, V453000 ;)
15:19:16  <V453000> well it is mainly useful to make me remember it :P thanks
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15:28:08  <Alberth> being a farmer must be a dangerous profession in yeti land :)
15:29:00  <Alberth> spikey horns, upside-down pigcows
15:38:22  <V453000> :)
15:39:56  <V453000> Alberth: pm also mentioned the gate, yeah :P
15:40:55  <Alberth> I had the idea that you could make a few more yellow boards with the yeti home, with other words, like "sleep", "eat", "kill", and stack them vertically against the igloo
15:41:56  <Alberth> hmm, the "food" board could have different words too I guess
15:42:18  <Alberth> .-1,. s/board/sign/g
15:45:09  <Alberth> but like Sealbhach says, who cares about transport, with such graphics to drool at :D
15:50:14  <V453000> :)
15:54:01  <V453000> still, details are important even in "omg so small amount of pixels". Even if you do not know what the detail is, it creates a lot more natural atmosphere
15:54:11  <V453000> big part of why zbase is so "dead"
15:54:22  <V453000> and not in development, but in the way it looks :P
15:55:03  <V453000> anyway, I got to go :) njoy
15:55:10  <Alberth> I fully agree
15:55:18  <V453000> PS dont drool into your keyboard too much :P
15:55:19  <Alberth> bye, and have fun :)
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15:57:08  <juzza1> also zBase has almost no gloss anywhere
15:58:44  <juzza1> makes everything look dead
15:59:41  <Alberth> I fear lukasz1985 will do the same :(
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16:37:51  <shirish> hi all, I was trying to register and am unable to register. The registration link says it caught my email in a spam filter. Can somebody help ?
16:39:24  <shirish> also at the hyperlink given for 'Default (DOS) palette for GIMP' results in a 404: not found.
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16:39:37  <shirish> could somebody fix the above ?
16:42:34  <Alberth> hmm, file disappeared?
16:44:30  <shirish> Alberth: seems to be OR the file location is somewhere else, could be either case, only somebody who knows can share what the fix is and fix the wiki link.
16:44:51  <shirish> Alberth: any idea whom should I talk to about getting registered for the fora ?
16:45:24  <Eddi|zuHause> registered on which site?
16:46:32  <Alberth> file is not in the current version, maybe the history knows
16:46:39  <shirish> Eddi|zuHause: the openttd forums registeration
16:47:42  <shirish> Eddi|zuHause: I meant this page
16:48:00  <Eddi|zuHause> "Cleanup #3187: Remove deprecated documentation and only leave the pointer to the official wiki"
16:48:21  <Eddi|zuHause> a2a6e0bb4d20
16:48:23  <shirish> Eddi|zuHause: seems the fora never made the change from transport tycoon to openttd (in naming).
16:48:47  <Eddi|zuHause> shirish: the forum is shared with other games like ttdpatch and locomotion
16:49:10  <Eddi|zuHause> so the accounts are separate from the bugtracker/bananas/etc. accounts
16:49:21  <Eddi|zuHause> orudge is responsible for the forum
16:49:51  <shirish> Eddi|zuHause: thank you :) , calling orudge
16:50:17  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, planetmaker removed this file from the nml repo
16:50:28  <Eddi|zuHause> the link should be changed to point to the wiki
16:50:34  <shirish> orudge: whenever you are online, could you pm me, I could give my mail details and you could remove my mail id from the spam filter so I can register.
16:51:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know where else the file could be
16:51:15  <Alberth> shirish:
16:52:16  <Alberth> ^^ the file
16:52:27  <Alberth> no idea where that file moved to :(
16:53:37  <Rubidium>
16:53:38  <Eddi|zuHause> well, a dirty workaround would be changing above link from "tip" to the old revision before this removal
16:53:54  <Rubidium> ^ there it went...
16:55:00  <Alberth> yeah, I noticed the hex number as being a revision after a few minutes :)
16:56:08  <Alberth> It seems like useful information to distribute with the compiler, imo
16:58:12  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i could have also written the "short revision", but i'm not sure anymore when my local sequence diverged from the official one
17:00:16  <shirish> Eddi|zuHause: what does the above discussion, does it mean that the gimp pallette shared is no longer correct or not being maintained or what ?
17:00:33  <shirish> Eddi|zuHause: I am 'newbie' hence asking.
17:01:30  <Eddi|zuHause> shirish: the file is still correct. nothing has changed in the palette in 20 years. it has been removed from that particular repo because someone decided it doesn't belong there
17:02:16  <shirish> Eddi|zuHause: ohk. thanx for clearing that up.
17:03:14  <shirish> this NEWGRF is a recent phenomenon or an old thing ? Can anybody share when this came up ?
17:03:30  <Eddi|zuHause> about 10 years ago
17:04:47  <Eddi|zuHause> people had been changing the original graphics by modifying the files directly, and at some point someone decided there should be a mod format. then it has been extended over time to cover more features
17:05:16  <Eddi|zuHause> like changing stats of vehicles, adding new industry types, ...
17:10:40  <shirish> Eddi|zuHause: ohk, thanx.
17:22:18  <Eddi|zuHause> # Und der GabelstaplerfÃŒhrer mit der Stapelgabel prahlt
17:25:17  <Rubidium> what's the second noun?
17:25:22  <Rubidium> +mean
17:25:52  <Rubidium> it reminds me of Klaus' first work day though
17:26:09  <Eddi|zuHause> it's more of a pun than a proper word
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17:29:57  <Eddi|zuHause> the "Gabel|stapler" has a Gabel in front of it, and it is used to "stapeln" (hence the name). and they branded it "Stapel|gabel", which nobody would actually call it in every day language
17:30:38  <Eddi|zuHause> "Gabel"->fork, "Stapel"->stack
17:31:16  <Rubidium> so it's just a brand name
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17:31:39  <Eddi|zuHause> no, not an actual brand
17:31:56  <Eddi|zuHause> "the fork-lift-driver shows off with his lift-fork"
17:32:02  <shirish> Eddi|zuHause: would it be correct to label the graphics in openttd as '8-bit graphics' or no ?
17:32:17  <Eddi|zuHause> shirish: yes. mostly.
17:32:54  <shirish> Eddi|zuHause: I am planning to do small blog post about openttd in the nearish future (for some reason people don't know about it.)
17:33:03  <shirish> or many people don't know about it.
17:33:04  <Eddi|zuHause> shirish: there has been a movement towards 32-bit, but it's not caught on very far yet
17:33:15  <shirish> Eddi|zuHause: link please.
17:33:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have links
17:33:54  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a subsection in the forum
17:34:08  <Rubidium> in the in game content download thing, search for zbase, download it. Then go to the game options and select zbase as base graphics set
17:35:20  <Rubidium> bear in mind that 32 bits zbase is about 100 times larger than 8 bits opengfx (resp. 273 vs 3 MiB)
17:36:19  <shirish> ohk, thanx all.
17:39:09  <shirish> umm... does anybody know if has anybody made any youtube videos or anything with the new 32-bit graphics ?
17:39:27  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea
17:39:49  <Rubidium> no doubt searching youtube will give you an answer
17:39:57  <Rubidium> try things like openttd 32bpp or so
17:40:30  <Rubidium> or openttd zbase
17:41:24  <shirish> Rubidium: wow, thanx the first link itself gave lot of hits, going to watch some :)
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17:49:44  <Alberth> o/
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18:15:26  <Wolf01> hi hi
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18:22:24  <Wolf01> enough accidents for today?
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18:27:21  <peter1138> "accident"
18:27:54  <Wolf01> ok, that was a coincidence with a missile
18:29:14  <Wolf01> but there are also a TGV in France and some workers killed by a train here in Italy
18:31:33  <Wolf01> and I don't want to count how many accidents on the highways
18:32:49  <Eddi|zuHause>  wasn't there something in moscow like 2 days ago?
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18:37:20  <Wolf01> and in Rome too
18:37:30  <Wolf01> but without casualties
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18:38:31  <frosch123> some pigcows fell over
18:38:49  <frosch123> couldn't get back up again
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19:06:39  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26695 trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt (2014-07-17 19:06:33 UTC)
19:06:40  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6064]: Slovakian uses space as group separator in numbers.
19:07:29  <frosch123> yay, another language using proper group separators
19:07:59  <__ln__> i didn't look at the diff yet, but i suspect something...
19:09:20  <__ln__> nevermind, it's correct despite the message.
19:12:44  <Supercheese> Commas are superior! :P
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19:34:08  <Jinassi> IS there a list where I can see what kind of fonts Openttd supports, like I can't use MS sans serif regular and so fort?
19:34:37  <frosch123> it supports all fonts which your os supports
19:37:16  <Jinassi> Unable to use 'MS Sans Serif Regular' for medium font, FreeType reported error 0x1, using sprite font instead
19:39:14  <Jinassi> I see there were issues with Arial font before in 2009 wtih this
19:39:33  <frosch123> are you sure the font is called like that?
19:39:55  <frosch123> not maybe just "MS Sans serif" ?
19:40:05  <frosch123> "MS Sans Serif" even
19:40:08  <Jinassi>
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19:52:57  <peter1138> Is that a bitmap font? Not sure they work, but I suppose they might.
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19:57:51  <frosch123> "MS Sans Serif is a proportional raster font introduced in Windows 1.x as "Helv". It changed to its current name starting with Windows 3.1. It is the default system font on Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows NT 4.0, Windows 98, and Windows ME. It shares spots with typefaces like Terminal, Fixedsys, and System."
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20:01:05  <frosch123> maybe it only works with certain font sizes
20:01:20  <frosch123> anyway, i guess it is easier to just use a scalable font instead
20:01:24  <Jinassi> Trying that now, no succes so far.
20:10:05  <Phreeze> zup
20:12:58  <frosch123> night
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21:39:26  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:18:34  <MTsPony> so emh, ive been wondering about this a week ago, i still havent found it why its behaving the way it does, but i still cannot make openttd save map on another thread and thus lagging out the game for 10 seconds (on linux server)
22:19:23  <MTsPony> it seems to work just fine on windows, same client.
22:19:26  <MTsPony> same revision
22:19:28  <MTsPony> beats me.
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22:38:12  <Eddi|zuHause> was it compiled with threads enabled?
22:38:44  <Eddi|zuHause> do you get a progress report on game start?
22:41:18  <MTsPony> well
22:41:26  <MTsPony> --enable-threads yeah?
22:41:27  <MTsPony> yeah.
22:42:20  <MTsPony> it was a bit vague tho, ./configure showed only the option --without-threads, but i figured i tried --enable-threads and it didnt say it was an invalid command, so yeah, still same story though.
22:44:09  <glx> it's --with-threads
22:44:42  <MTsPony> sorry, with-threads.
22:44:54  <MTsPony> its kinda late here, i know configure would say invalid command i did it wrong :p
22:45:42  <MTsPony> in either case, it would be weird if on windows compile it would be on, and on linux it would be off by default? i never had to configure anything for that in Visual studio 2010
22:46:02  <MTsPony> anyway its on. and i configured with --with-threads
22:46:06  <MTsPony> so im beat :/
22:46:35  <MTsPony> i do use the intel compiler though, i dont assume that it screws with the configure parameters as --enable-dedicated works fine too lol
22:46:55  <Eddi|zuHause> you didn't answer the second question
22:47:12  <MTsPony> what do you mean with a progress report?
22:47:20  <Eddi|zuHause> a progress bar
22:47:28  <Eddi|zuHause> "x of y done"
22:47:39  <MTsPony> you mean in the linux terminal?
22:47:44  <Eddi|zuHause> no in the window
22:47:55  <Eddi|zuHause> like "scanning newgrfs" or "generating map"
22:48:00  <MTsPony> oh yeah, client wise i do.
22:48:08  <MTsPony> but this is about server side autosaves.
22:48:11  <MTsPony> on linux
22:48:24  <Eddi|zuHause> can you start the client on linux?
22:48:36  <MTsPony> yeah? just no video cuz i did --enable-dedicated
22:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause> that does probably not help
22:49:31  <MTsPony> well i can just recompile it with SDL or something, how would that solve the save/threading issue tho?
22:50:41  <glx> try -d sl1
22:52:10  <MTsPony> i see some output
22:52:32  <glx> if (_network_server || !_settings_client.gui.threaded_saves) threaded = false;
22:52:51  <glx> seems server doesn't save in threads
22:53:03  <MTsPony> it doesnt show me that
22:53:06  <Eddi|zuHause> that seems like a weird exception
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22:53:28  <MTsPony> i have threaded_saves on true in my openttd.cfg file.
22:54:03  <MTsPony> is there anything in the compiling stage which could prevent this from workin?
22:54:33  <glx> _network_server is responsible
22:55:14  <MTsPony> ok...
22:55:51  <MTsPony> so what do i do to fix this?
22:56:01  <glx> you can't
22:56:07  <MTsPony> lol why not
22:56:17  <MTsPony> why would it work in windows but not under linux?
22:56:42  <glx> even if windows is hosting ?
22:56:54  <MTsPony> no idea.
22:57:11  <MTsPony> are you saying it only works with client side saving?
22:57:14  <glx> because the code says the server doesn't thread saving
22:57:34  <MTsPony> whats the reason for that?
23:01:32  <MTsPony> glx?
23:01:41  <glx> checking
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23:11:38  <glx> @commit 2391
23:11:38  <DorpsGek> glx: Commit by Darkvater :: r2391 /trunk (7 files in 2 dirs) (2005-06-01 23:08:33 UTC)
23:11:39  <DorpsGek> glx: - Feature: saving games happen in a seperate thread so you no longer will have to wait such a long time (especially handy on bigger maps and multiplayer games). The mouse also changes into the 'ZZZ' state :P. The thread on windows is currently given a little-bit-less-than-normal priority so it should not interfere that much with the gameplay; it will take a bit longer though. Upon the exit of the game (1 more message)
23:11:40  <DorpsGek> glx: - Fix: fixed GetSavegameFormat() so that it takes the best compressor (highest), or a forced one added with the parameter
23:11:41  <DorpsGek> glx: - Open issues:
23:11:42  <DorpsGek> glx: 1. Don't attempt to load a game while saving is in progress, it will kick you back to the intro-screen with only the vast ocean to look at.
23:11:43  <DorpsGek> glx: (...)
23:11:52  <glx> 2. The server is disabled from threaded-saving, but might be enabled in the future.
23:11:52  <glx> 3. Current implementation only allows 1 additional running thread.
23:11:52  <glx> 4. Stupid global variables.....grrr
23:11:52  <glx> Big thanks for TrueLight and the amazing memorypool :D
23:12:29  <glx> the reason is it probably was too dangerous at that time :)
23:12:50  <glx> and nobody looked at it since then
23:13:24  <MTsPony> oh.. lol
23:13:32  <MTsPony> any dirty fix to enable it?
23:16:07  <glx> the dirty fix is remove "_network_server || " on src/saveload.cpp:2827
23:16:27  <glx> but I can't guarantee it will not cause problems
23:16:35  <MTsPony> what were the problems it was causing anyway?
23:16:59  <glx> we had many global variables at that time
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23:17:50  <glx> and threading with globals is rarely a good idea
23:23:42  <MTsPony> kkthx
23:23:52  <MTsPony> so what happens if it goes wrong tho, does the save game screw up?
23:25:48  <glx> save game should be ok, but maybe desync can happen
23:26:03  <MTsPony> ah ok
23:26:07  <MTsPony> in that case ill try it anyway :D
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