Log for #openttd on 17th August 2014:
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07:17:08  <planetmaker> moin
07:24:56  <andythenorth> o/
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08:50:45  <andythenorth> cut-and-shut
08:50:46  <andythenorth>
08:50:53  <andythenorth> makes for fast drawing of ships
08:51:29  <andythenorth> adapted from
08:52:30  <Rubidium> but... it's missing the wake ;)
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08:52:50  <Wolf01> moin
08:53:51  <LordAro> morning
08:55:04  <andythenorth> Rubidium: but which end should I put the wake? o_O
08:55:58  <Rubidium> the rear?
08:56:03  <andythenorth> ok
08:57:05  <Rubidium> though I guess wakes are kinda pointless since whenever you change direction the wake shows somewhere where the ship has never been
08:57:56  <Rubidium> hmm... adaptation of ship smoke, if ever that gets implemented, "smoke" at the water level where the ship has been and we got wakes!
09:01:04  <andythenorth> !!!
09:01:06  <andythenorth> :)
09:01:25  <andythenorth> might actually be good
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09:16:14  <andythenorth> ho
09:16:19  <andythenorth> symmetrical ships ftw
09:16:22  <andythenorth> much faster to draw
09:19:04  <Eddi|zuHause> but the wake makes it asymmetric!
09:20:46  <peter1138> Car ferries are a BAD FEATURE
09:21:16  <peter1138> Whatever happened to loading vehicles onto ships? hehe
09:21:51  <andythenorth> you have a patch for it
09:21:57  <peter1138> Lies./
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09:44:24  <Alberth> o/
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10:06:04  <andythenorth>
10:06:10  <andythenorth> way faster than drawing from scratch
10:06:54  <andythenorth> house isn’t centred in \ view though, eh?
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10:10:33  <peter1138> andythenorth, 7 bays in _ view, 8 bays in \ view
10:10:50  <Eddi|zuHause> pixel counter alert!
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10:17:11  <andythenorth> ha
10:17:16  <andythenorth> that’s why the house isn’t centered
10:17:18  <andythenorth> I should fix that
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10:19:41  <andythenorth> thanks :)
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10:29:48  <frosch123> andy has a new push-to-join irc client
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11:23:08  <keoz> plop
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11:33:58  <Alberth> o/
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12:43:25  <ATS63> say uhh...
12:43:51  <ATS63> if you build a station between two industries, and both those industries accept the same cargo... only one of those industries ends up getting it?
12:44:11  <ATS63> Is there a way around that?
12:44:40  <ATS63> I'm playing ECS if that makes any difference
12:45:25  <Alberth> build 2 stations, one close to one industry
12:45:35  <Alberth> *each
12:46:05  <Alberth> ie the industry closest to the station sign gets the cargo
12:46:30  <ATS63> Yeah, in this circumstance I'd have to demolish a town
12:47:39  <Alberth> an alternative is to be happy with delivery to one industry :)
12:48:30  <ATS63> actually it is only two trains... I can fit a single line station in there
12:48:39  <ATS63> just for those two trains
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12:51:59  <Alberth> if you use cargo dist, you can also setup a feeder for the second industry
12:52:43  <Alberth> depending on the amount of cargo, capacity may be a problem
12:53:31  <Zuu> Also without cargodist, you could transfer cargo to a station and use lorries to deliver the last hop to each industry.
12:53:54  <Zuu> This independent of if the transfer station is in range of any industry.
12:58:34  <Jelmazmo> o/
12:59:18  <ATS63>
12:59:20  <ATS63> o rly
12:59:25  <ATS63> I'll have to fiddle
13:01:14  <Jelmazmo> Anybody know what happened with ? I tried to download few mods available only there, but it is not working :/
13:02:46  <ATS63> I did build that single line though, but it seems like a poor mans fix
13:27:47  <Alberth> Jelmazmo: you may want to ask at the forum, many more readers there
13:29:05  <ATS63> heh this station isn't bad... better than old builds I use to do...
13:29:16  <ATS63> 10 platforms, 71 trains
13:29:28  <ATS63> no blocks or congestion issues
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13:34:55  <Alberth> large station :)
13:35:18  <ATS63> Could probably do it with less platforms too... its hard to know whats going on
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13:37:05  <Alberth> yeah, at some scale you don't see all details any more
13:37:07  <Zuu> Every time I see "71 trains" without a "/ [time unit]" it makes me want to write a patch that adds a such measurement. :-)
13:37:29  <Zuu> But, so far I haven't made time for that.
13:37:53  <Alberth> :D
13:38:09  <ATS63> When the time unit would be months, it doesn't sound as good :(
13:38:46  <ATS63> But that would be a neat idea
13:39:26  <Alberth> I'd rather have a window with average queue length for each station :)
13:39:53  <V453000> Zuu: amout of cargo going through the station should be quite good measurement :P
13:39:54  <V453000> which kind of already is there
13:39:56  <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a waypoint traffic counting patch (around r5000)
13:40:01  <Alberth> or a message "queue length grows rapidly  at XXX"
13:40:35  <ATS63> This station has a queue of almost 0 :D
13:40:57  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: how to measure a queue=
13:40:59  <Eddi|zuHause> ?
13:41:19  <Zuu> SuperLib has code to calculate the queue length for all airport types in the game. :-)
13:41:26  <ATS63> Braking leading up to the station, at any distance. Would be computationally difficult but
13:41:48  <ATS63> Or based on red lights thrown
13:41:57  <Alberth> stopped trains on incoming tracks, mostly
13:42:46  <Alberth> until you hit an empty block or a moving train
13:42:49  <Zuu> For train stations, the average occupancy of the plattforms may be an easier but also good measurement of how saturated the station is.
13:43:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: that won't detect insufficient entry track layout
13:44:07  <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: right
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13:44:50  <Eddi|zuHause> but queue length might not be a good measurement either. large stations may generally have longer queues without being congested
13:45:59  <ATS63>
13:46:05  <ATS63> Thats my station
13:49:23  <Rubidium> with that length of trains, and that type of trains 5 platforms should be enough to handle the traffic
13:49:56  <Rubidium> assuming they can immediately fully load
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13:51:02  <ATS63> Pretty much. I just had to ramp up the steel trains cause they weren't loading quick enough
13:52:53  <V453000> using separate stations for loading and unloading is not a bad idea either btw
13:53:09  <V453000> or waypoints
13:53:15  <Alberth> indeed, it prevents deadlocks :)
13:53:21  <ATS63> Apparently I can ramp up the iron ore trains too, at every mine that feeds. So I should probably find another coal mine :/
13:54:04  <ATS63> Waypoints wouldn't be a bad idea
13:54:05  <Alberth> you should build longer turns, these double 45 degrees corners kill speed
13:54:40  <Rubidium> Alberth: unless the original acceleration is used
13:54:55  <ATS63> nah realistic
13:55:26  <ATS63> hehe, you should see every junction of mine... I probably could do better
13:55:47  <Alberth> that gives major havoc in pulling away, you need exit tracks then at the station
13:56:16  <ATS63>
13:58:55  <V453000> ._.
14:00:08  <Alberth> oef
14:01:09  <Eddi|zuHause> did you mean "eof"? :p
14:02:18  <Eddi|zuHause> the offsets between the wagons and engines seems wrong
14:02:54  <Eddi|zuHause> like if they don't belong to the same vehicle set
14:03:49  <ATS63> ecs & firs original vehicle set
14:04:40  <Alberth> the left incoming stream should drive around the right outging stream, to keep split before merge
14:04:58  <Eddi|zuHause> particularly, the engines look like they are driving off the rails
14:06:07  <ATS63> Can't say I've ever noticed
14:06:48  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also see this in the vehicle list. there is a gap between engines and wagons, and they don't appear on the same height
14:07:14  <Alberth> if you put the tracks further apart from each other you get room to do the merge and split between the tracks
14:07:15  <ATS63> Ahh true
14:07:37  <Eddi|zuHause> sorry for spoiling your game, you will now forever see this :p
14:07:48  <ATS63> Probably not :P
14:07:49  <Alberth> use a different train set :)
14:08:08  <Alberth> or report to the newgrf developers, and hope they fix it
14:08:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i presume the engines come from opengfx, while the wagons are copies of the original?
14:08:48  <ATS63> or ignore, the resolution is pretty poor anyway
14:08:58  <ATS63> yep
14:09:11  <ATS63> I'd say so
14:10:56  <Alberth> you can use opengfx+trains  instead
14:13:04  <ATS63> I'll apply that to this scenario I modified. Was considering I should publish it
14:13:44  <ATS63> Modified the Australia scenario, cleaned up the coastline, positioned the cities and towns better, added some newgrfs like ecs
14:14:18  <ATS63> Makes it easy when you know where everything is
14:14:39  <Alberth> assuming you know where things are in australie :p
14:15:01  <Alberth> *australia
14:15:43  <ATS63> I took it as far as placing mines approx where they should be
14:15:44  <Alberth> having town newgrfs with geographic location of names would be neat
14:16:38  <keoz> you mean, sort of coordinates ?
14:17:05  <ATS63> 500km +/- :P
14:17:29  <Alberth> yeah, so if you generate a map, towns get more or less at the right place relative to each other
14:18:04  <keoz> yeah, that'd be nice
14:18:08  <Alberth> hmm, I guess you could write a gs or an ai for that
14:18:58  <keoz> it isn't possible to load more than one gamescript at a time, isn't it ?
14:19:15  <Eddi|zuHause> correct
14:19:35  <keoz> that'd also be nice :)
14:19:39  <Alberth> keoz: In the general case, a name consists of several parts, so the tricky question is how to attach a location to a name created from a set of parts
14:19:45  <Eddi|zuHause> but if you turn one into a library, you can call it from the other one
14:20:07  <keoz> Right.
14:20:21  <Eddi|zuHause> generally, there are too many things that would conflict with two game scripts working against each other
14:20:28  <ATS63> Alberth: ?
14:20:33  <Eddi|zuHause> it will almost always need manual adjustments
14:20:57  <Alberth> ATS63: with random names, like you have in default openttd?
14:21:35  <Alberth> ie I want random names, and locations :)
14:26:13  <keoz> You want a lot.
14:26:34  <Alberth> yep, that's why things in openttd take time
14:27:00  <Alberth> finding the right solution to a problem is a lot of thinking and trying
14:28:27  <keoz> Aucun espace disponible sur le périphérique
14:28:30  <keoz> oups, sorry
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14:52:38  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26745 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2014-08-17 14:52:32 UTC)
14:52:39  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Deduplicate calls to CreateEffectVehicleRel for vehicle visual effects.
14:52:55  <andythenorth> o_O
14:52:55  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26746 /trunk/src (vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h) (2014-08-17 14:52:48 UTC)
14:52:56  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Separate enums for visual effect type and spawning model.
14:53:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26747 /trunk/src (3 files) (2014-08-17 14:53:11 UTC)
14:53:18  <DorpsGek> -Feature: [NewGRF] Advanced visual effects with multiple effect sprites independent of spawning model.
14:53:34  <frosch123> andythenorth: there you go :)
14:53:59  <andythenorth> oh I see :D
14:54:03  <frosch123> now comes the endless specs, renum, nml, .... how many tools to adjust?
14:54:04  <andythenorth> now I have to do another release :P
14:54:18  <andythenorth> I think I patched nml already
14:54:22  <andythenorth> old nml though
14:55:01  <andythenorth>
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15:31:14  <andythenorth> igh
15:31:20  * andythenorth will have to get the new nml
15:32:08  <frosch123> he, you only added the nml callback to ships :p
15:32:49  <andythenorth> oopsie
15:32:56  <andythenorth> well it worked for my test case :P
15:33:52  <frosch123> hmm, actually,.. it does not work for aircraft
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15:37:37  <frosch123> hmm, nml specs only have one table for all the vehicle callbacks
15:37:44  <frosch123> i need more space :p
15:52:42  <frosch123> <- i wonder whether it needs other constants, or maybe inline functions
15:53:24  <frosch123> currently nml uses a built-in "visual_effect" function to create values for the properties and callback 10
15:53:34  <frosch123> those would be completely replaced when using the new callback
15:53:51  <frosch123> not exactly sure, how to properly represent this in nml
15:54:08  <frosch123> one could also deprecate the complete previous visual_effect thing
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15:55:20  <Alberth> oh dear L)
15:55:23  <Alberth> :)
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16:04:47  <Alberth> a callback is just an expression? you cannot simply add a type and a spawning type cb ?
16:05:19  <frosch123> the property is in the "item" part, the callback in the "graphics" part
16:05:33  <frosch123> the former is a constant expression, the latter is a switch
16:06:08  <frosch123> usually nml sets the necessary properties when using a callback in the "graphics" section
16:06:28  <Alberth> seems like a good idea :)
16:06:33  <frosch123> but here there is somewhat a conflict with the old "visual_effect" resp. "visual_effect_and_powered_wagons"
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16:09:04  <Alberth> unless compability requirements forbid it, I'd say just throw out the old way of doing visual effects
16:09:32  <Alberth> it would be nice if a user can continue using his old code though
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16:11:22  <Alberth> maybe use the spawning model of the effect type if the user didn't specify any?
16:11:29  <planetmaker> good evening
16:11:33  <andythenorth> I thought some of that visual effect stuff was considered dead
16:11:36  * andythenorth looks at spec
16:11:38  <Alberth> evenink planetmaker
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16:12:45  * Alberth doesn't have any hope of giving clues as to how to change nml
16:13:29  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26748 /trunk (6 files in 3 dirs) (2014-08-17 16:13:23 UTC)
16:13:30  <DorpsGek> -Merge: documentation updates from 1.4 branch
16:14:05  <andythenorth> oh dear
16:14:27  <andythenorth> frosch123: sorry, I cheated when I made a test grf for cb160
16:14:29  <andythenorth> :(
16:14:47  <andythenorth> I forgot that
16:15:37  <frosch123> maybe pm has an idea :)
16:19:33  <planetmaker> sorry, I didn't yet catch up
16:19:38  <planetmaker> Just got home 5 minutes ago :)
16:21:39  <planetmaker> what is the exact problem, from when should I read back to understand?
16:22:48  <frosch123> 17:37
16:24:42  <andythenorth> extend visual_effect() ?
16:24:53  <planetmaker> ok... what is the conflict? the naming?
16:25:37  <frosch123> no, when using "create_visual_effect", all current values for "visual_effect" are useless, except DISABLE_WAGON_POWER
16:25:38  <andythenorth> frosch123: do I understand?  We need to teach visual_effect() about using advanced effects
16:25:53  <frosch123> they would all be replaced with the new VISUAL_EFFECT_MODEL_xxx
16:26:02  <frosch123> the constants, and the build-in function
16:26:04  <planetmaker> ok... but then... where's the problem? :)
16:26:14  <frosch123> the documentation :)
16:26:30  <planetmaker> ok. Can NML *always* use the new one instead of the old? It can, yes?
16:26:39  <frosch123> doing simple and advanced visual effects are completely separate things
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16:27:31  <planetmaker> so we will also want to offer both, in the future?
16:27:33  <frosch123> planetmaker: that would mean declaring the current built-in function and constants deprecated
16:27:48  <frosch123> well, the old method is kind of easier to use :)
16:27:57  <frosch123> no STORE_TEMP and such
16:29:23  <andythenorth> can’t set visual_effect(VISUAL_EFFECT_ADVANCE, 0) ?
16:29:33  <andythenorth> or such
16:30:38  <frosch123> the second value would always have to be 0, so the function is pointless
16:31:23  * andythenorth wonders what other cbs do that replace a property
16:31:46  <frosch123> well, in this case there are two callbacks :)
16:32:45  <planetmaker> can we rewrite them such that NML can decide old for simple cases and advanced for the complicated ones
16:33:01  <planetmaker> similar to what andy mentions? Would mean a change of syntax. But could maybe unify it?
16:33:45  <andythenorth> oh yeah cb10 exists already
16:33:47  <andythenorth> ho
16:36:41  <planetmaker> but possibly it's easier to teach NML about an advanced_visual_effect. And have it spit out warnings if it's used in conjunction with the old one
16:36:43  <andythenorth> could just put the burden on the author
16:36:56  <planetmaker> I'm sure there are people who need the old one of just whatever edge case
16:37:34  <andythenorth> “Using advanced_visual_effect will cause any values for visual_effect to be ignored"
16:37:38  <andythenorth> or such
16:39:44  <planetmaker> well, yes, I guess. And NML can parse the code to detect usage of both and issue a warning when it's used
16:39:51  <planetmaker> similar to the white pixels or so
16:39:57  <planetmaker> Probably the best solution
16:40:05  <frosch123> <- maybe a build-in function for creating the store_temp values
16:40:46  <frosch123> but imo most confusing are the names of the constants
16:40:57  <frosch123> maybe we have a differen name than VISUAL_EFFECT for the new stuff
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16:41:12  <andythenorth> or VISUAL_EFFECT_SPAWN_MODEL
16:41:17  <frosch123> so the constants for old and new are not mixed
16:41:37  <planetmaker> EFFECT_SPRITE
16:41:42  <andythenorth> SPAWN_MODEL
16:41:49  <andythenorth> it’s called spawn model in the nfo spec
16:42:09  <andythenorth> this constant only controls spawning yes?
16:42:16  <frosch123> so, remove the "visual_effect" property and callback, and add a "spawn_model" thing instead?
16:42:26  <frosch123> calling the whole visual_effect thing deprecated?
16:42:57  <frosch123> effect_spawn_model and effect_spawn_model_and_powered_wagons :p
16:42:59  <planetmaker> ah, that you mean. Making one new function, spawn_model which integrates CB 0x10 and 0x160 into one interface?
16:43:09  <planetmaker> and call the existing deprecated? Sounds good
16:43:18  <andythenorth> I wasn’t proposing deprecated, just constant name
16:43:24  <andythenorth> but if it works to unify them...
16:43:34  <planetmaker> if we make it new as a common name, we have to deprecate the old :)
16:44:15  <planetmaker> or we call it just effect_creation
16:44:28  <andythenorth> we could just use the new one and write out an action 2 when we produce the output :P
16:44:36  <andythenorth> bit ugh
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17:04:26  <frosch123> <- no idea whether that works :)
17:06:11  <frosch123> <- usage
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17:16:08  <planetmaker> the graphics callback looks funky complicated for just a shifted puff of steam
17:19:00  <andythenorth> wait until there are 8 funnels :)
17:19:14  <frosch123> planetmaker: exactly why i do not want to remove the old method completely :)
17:19:47  <planetmaker> :)
17:20:08  <frosch123> but i guess using completely separate constants and names makes it easier to doc
17:21:09  <frosch123> andythenorth: right, i was wondering about that, the current implementation limits it to 3, though i noticed afterwards that the docs said 15
17:21:13  <frosch123> did we change that somewhen?
17:21:34  <andythenorth> I don’t recall
17:21:41  <andythenorth> are there performance considerations?
17:22:07  <Rubidium> how am I to code an A-225 with only 3 engines?
17:22:22  <frosch123> Rubidium: aircraft do not support it anyway :p
17:22:31  <frosch123> andythenorth:  i just wanted to impose a limit
17:22:42  <frosch123> to prevent people doing stupid things
17:22:57  <frosch123> though usually they do anyway
17:23:03  <Alberth> :)
17:23:39  <andythenorth> 3 is fine for my cases
17:23:52  <andythenorth> 3 is the amount spawned on one run of the cb?
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17:24:29  <frosch123> yes
17:24:43  <andythenorth> 3 is plenty
17:24:45  <frosch123> basically 3 positions
17:24:48  <andythenorth> how often does it run?
17:25:01  <frosch123> same as for traditional effects
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17:30:09  <andythenorth> so how many pax shall I give this thing?
17:30:10  <andythenorth>
17:30:16  <andythenorth> it’s the only big pax ship in this roster
17:30:28  <andythenorth> it’s set to 1,000 currently, could go higher
17:30:31  <andythenorth> it’s not fast
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17:31:54  <Alberth> for a ferry, 1000 seems fine
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17:32:31  <Alberth> it's about 2 trains :)
17:34:03  <Rubidium> 3000 seems the maximum for ferries IRL
17:35:02  <andythenorth> this ship has 4 funnels
17:35:03  <andythenorth> hmm
17:35:17  <Rubidium> and about 6000 for cruise ships
17:35:52  <Alberth> one engine is under repair :)
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17:41:35  <andythenorth> pleased with that ship
17:41:38  <andythenorth> less than 1 hour to make
17:45:44  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26749 /trunk/src/lang (afrikaans.txt hungarian.txt) (2014-08-17 17:45:37 UTC)
17:45:45  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:46  <DorpsGek> afrikaans - 47 changes by telanus
17:45:47  <DorpsGek> hungarian - 50 changes by Brumi
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18:01:35  <Yho> Hi
18:03:36  <planetmaker> <-- hm... it's of course wrong to not write in English... and if I interpret it right he uses OpenTTD 0.6.3 :D
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18:06:01  <Yho> I'm trying to get into openttd patches dev  with a simple thing but I can't find the file where ShowQueryString is defined. Does someone know ? Or maybe if you have a tip to find the correct file when searching for fuctions
18:06:33  <frosch123> planetmaker: yeah, that config option was changed between 0.6 and 1.0
18:06:53  <frosch123> Yho: it's called "grep"
18:07:58  *** DabuYu [DabuYu@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:08:39  <Yho> frosch123: I use "find . | xargs grep "ShowQueryString" -sl". But I can't find the file where the body of the function is. Am I doning something wrong ?
18:09:09  <planetmaker> grep -Ri "ShowQueryString" src/*
18:09:37  <Xaroth|Work> ^
18:09:44  <frosch123> or even "void ShowQueryString"
18:10:38  <Alberth> src/misc_gui.cpp
18:10:38  <Alberth> 1052:void ShowQueryString(StringID str, StringID caption, uint maxsize, Window *parent, CharSetFilter afilter, QueryStringFlags flags)
18:10:50  <Alberth> ack ShowQueryString   :)
18:13:47  <Yho> Thanks everyone. And thanks Alberth, I had trouble finding it even with all the different commands
18:14:33  <planetmaker> Yho, it's always the line where it's preceeded by the type of the return value. All other lines are where it's called
18:15:04  <Alberth> planetmaker: and no ; at the end of the line, else it's a declaration :)
18:15:21  <Alberth> Yho: you get better at it as you do it more often
18:15:40  <Yho> Alberth: planetmaker: I was looking for line without ; but looking for return type s easier
18:15:52  <planetmaker> :)
18:16:18  <Alberth> not indented by a tab is also easy to spot
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18:18:41  <Yho> Alberth: Oh yes I'll remember that.
18:28:51  <keoz> mmh ... grep -R
18:29:08  <keoz> why the hell I am always using find /src -type f -exec grep ?
18:29:30  <planetmaker> :)
18:29:34  <frosch123> maybe you use ancient unix, and are not used to gnu extensions?
18:29:58  <keoz> I remember that at some point I had problems using recursive grep
18:30:13  <frosch123> grep -I --exclude-dir=".svn" --exclude-dir=".hg" --exclude-dir="lang" --exclude="*~" "$@" <- that's what my editor uses
18:30:22  <keoz> not that ancient, it's an uptodate archlinux :p
18:30:46  <frosch123> in addition to the -R which the editor adds itself via some checkbox
18:32:04  <Zuu> I tend to use grep -r. But maybe -R is better :-)
18:32:31  <frosch123> hardly a difference
18:32:31  <andythenorth> so it seems that nobody floats rafts of logs down the Rhine, Elbe or Danube
18:32:35  <frosch123> i guess i also use -r
18:33:22  <keoz> andythenorth: there arent't so much forests to cut in Europe anymore, I think :p
18:34:27  <keoz> -R follow symlinks
18:34:32  <frosch123> i thought europe is one of the most suitable continents for forestry
18:34:58  <frosch123> fast growing trees, easy regrowing
18:35:29  <keoz> It's suitable for it, but large parts of ancients forests doesn't exist anymore. Cutted for agriculture.
18:36:05  <Rubidium> the main reason at least the Rhine isn't suitable is the huge amount of ships going there
18:37:06  <planetmaker> yeah, all those rivers are official waterways with heavy ship traffic. No place for unstearable rafts
18:39:54  <Rubidium> also most forestry in (central) Europe is relatively small scale
18:40:23  <planetmaker> that, too.
18:41:24  <Rubidium> even then, most of it won't be near those rivers and between the forest and the river there's usually a town so throwing logs of a mountain will not be appreciated
18:41:37  <Rubidium> nor will dumping them in the river with a helicopter
18:42:52  <planetmaker> the road network is also too dense. No point there. Just put it onto trucks and haul it to the sawmill directly
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18:49:30  <andythenorth> no log rafts for you lot then :)
18:49:38  <andythenorth> they can go in the NA roster
18:49:41  <andythenorth> or Scandi
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18:53:25  <planetmaker> well... Scandinavia surely has it
18:53:35  <planetmaker> so... it could well be in the general set
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18:56:17  <keoz> btw, european rivers aren't limited to Elbe, Rhine and Danube :)
18:56:44  <keoz> I wouldn't be surprised if that kind of river transportation still exists in parts like Russia
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19:24:52  <frosch123> night
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19:36:31  <andythenorth> hmm
19:36:39  <andythenorth> if I make very large barges
19:36:52  <andythenorth> (basically size of current largest ships)
19:37:00  <andythenorth> then they’ll look quite bad if used on rivers and canals
19:45:18  <andythenorth> already the largest barge overlaps land a lot
19:45:24  <andythenorth> and I could make it 25% longer :P
19:50:54  <Supercheese> option for double- or triple-wide rivers on mapgen?
19:51:03  <Supercheese> players can always doublewide their canals
19:57:35  <peter1138> Stick to TTD sizes
20:02:26  <andythenorth> could just cheat
20:02:51  <andythenorth> capacity != scale
20:03:24  <andythenorth> someone should do articulated ships
20:06:30  <Alberth> with articulated smoke?
20:06:56  <andythenorth> I could draw the sprites using the effect cb?
20:06:58  <andythenorth> o_O
20:07:10  <planetmaker> you could. so much to do now :D
20:07:11  <andythenorth> fake articulated barges
20:07:30  <Alberth> gn
20:07:34  <andythenorth> :)
20:07:50  <planetmaker> g'night Alberth
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20:08:22  <Supercheese> I got to exercise my Spanish translation skills
20:09:38  <Supercheese> It seems that accent marks go out the window for Internet Spanish
20:10:13  <Supercheese> also, new effects callback?
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20:38:04  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:10:54  <planetmaker> g'night
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23:00:34  <webchattest> Does this thing work?
23:05:19  *** DabuYu [DabuYu@] has joined #openttd
23:07:08  <MTsPony> does anyone know what the deal with is newgrf's that appear on bananas website yet they are unfindable in game?
23:08:01  *** webchattest [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:08:32  *** amsu [~oftc-webi@] has joined #openttd
23:08:45  <amsu> hello there!
23:09:06  <amsu> anybody here?
23:09:17  <FLHerne> amsu: Yes
23:09:33  <FLHerne> I think everyone else is asleep though :P
23:10:12  <amsu> jajaj
23:10:38  <amsu> thank you for de fast respond
23:10:49  <amsu> im from argentina
23:11:07  <amsu> y study for ten year ingles
23:11:43  <amsu> but,.. y no practice  writing,.. only reading  jajaj
23:11:50  <amsu> ok,..
23:12:49  <MTsPony> lol
23:12:51  <MTsPony> jaja.
23:13:06  <amsu> :P
23:13:08  <MTsPony> :b
23:13:13  <FLHerne> 'y' -> 'I', 'ingles' -> 'english', but I can understand you :-)
23:13:37  <amsu> JAJAJJAJA  piece of animal!!
23:14:00  <glx> MTsPony: maybe wrong version of openttd
23:14:12  <MTsPony> Nein. i checked with both my custom and 1.4.1
23:14:21  <MTsPony> would be weird if it was version related?
23:14:40  <glx> some newgrf are for nightlies only IIRC
23:14:50  <MTsPony> does 26694 correspond to a nightly?
23:14:52  <amsu> ....WTF????
23:15:00  <amsu> :(
23:15:15  <MTsPony> well, cant find it with that version either. lol. I assume thats a nightly.
23:15:49  <FLHerne> amsu: Did you have more questions?
23:15:53  <MTsPony> Can you override this behavior? I suppose manually downloading it and place it on server, other people can download it from bananas even if they cant see it in their list either right?
23:16:05  <MTsPony> same with different version
23:16:08  <MTsPony> of newgrfs
23:16:16  <MTsPony> meh ill try it, thx
23:16:35  <Supercheese> Yeah, uploaders can specify version restrictions
23:16:41  <glx> newgrf can check the game version and disable themself IIRC
23:16:47  <Supercheese> "Cannot be downloaded with X version(s) of OTTD"
23:16:53  <amsu> heyyy superchees is herre too! =)
23:16:54  <Supercheese> min/max version fields IIRC
23:16:57  <Supercheese> Hola
23:17:06  <MTsPony> mhhh
23:17:11  <MTsPony> ok makes sense
23:17:30  <amsu> im re installin ttd the n° 20
23:18:20  <amsu> i delete all of ttd
23:20:20  <amsu> i download  the openttd-1.4.2-windows-win32.exe
23:20:47  <MTsPony> why not 64
23:21:03  <amsu> :(
23:21:08  <amsu> no y have a....
23:21:45  <glx> try to use "I" ;)
23:21:46  <amsu>
23:21:59  <amsu> F****k sorry
23:22:07  <glx> ha yes 32bit only
23:22:10  <Supercheese> Seem to have mastered expletives :P
23:22:16  <glx> xp 64 is very rare
23:22:22  <MTsPony> ow xp. lol
23:22:31  <MTsPony> yeah xp 64-bit, such a pain
23:22:56  <amsu> ok,.. here: only i installed this
23:23:17  <glx> yes
23:23:22  <Supercheese> looks good, do you still have problems?
23:23:27  <glx> basic install
23:23:43  <glx> should be playable immediately
23:24:03  <amsu> then y have to do this :
23:24:24  <glx> no
23:24:35  <Supercheese> those should have already been installed
23:24:52  <FLHerne> Supercheese: He asked about sound and music effects
23:25:08  <FLHerne> Supercheese: Only OGFX is installed by default IIRC
23:25:12  <Supercheese> Perhaps he needs to select them in the options panel
23:25:13  <glx> sound and music are installed by installer
23:25:29  <Supercheese> Yes, see
23:25:33  <amsu> installing,..
23:25:40  <amsu> ya les aviso,..
23:25:41  <glx> and I think they are enabled by default
23:25:45  <amsu> sorry em....
23:25:48  <amsu> wait.. jajaj
23:26:04  <FLHerne> Supercheese: Ooh, it looks like that now? I've been on Linux since about 1.0.x
23:26:12  <Supercheese> He just posted that :P
23:27:08  <FLHerne> Gah, I glanced at that and though it was a repost of his previous link :-/
23:27:27  <amsu> heeey exelent
23:27:29  <amsu> =)
23:27:42  <Supercheese> Working, I take it?
23:27:47  <amsu> only  y havent found the escenarios
23:27:50  <FLHerne> amsu: Never mind my dodgy screenshot then :P
23:27:58  <Supercheese> Yes, the scenarios are not included by default
23:28:05  <glx> in online content
23:28:09  <amsu> how y put its?
23:28:13  <Supercheese> Matter of fact, I do not know where they can be found -- the original scenarios anyway
23:28:17  <amsu> ok,.. going
23:28:24  <amsu> or... GO GO GO!
23:28:26  <amsu> :p
23:28:27  <Supercheese> There are lots of other scenarios in online content
23:28:38  <glx> not the original ones though but a lot indeed
23:29:16  <glx> a random game is good enough for me :)
23:29:42  <amsu> WHats IA ?
23:29:52  <Supercheese> Artificial Intelligence / Computer players
23:30:02  <amsu> mmmm ok thanks
23:30:19  <glx> some are very smart
23:30:39  <Supercheese> some are specialized for only a single purpose
23:31:01  <amsu> what recommend me reload everything?
23:31:12  <amsu> sorry for my english!
23:31:15  <Supercheese> For most things, only choose the ones you want
23:31:22  <amsu> reload no... TO load
23:31:37  <Supercheese> It is not recommended to download everything
23:32:05  <glx> openttd can be very slow to launch if you have everything :)
23:32:11  <amsu> nonono everything y don want to
23:32:33  <amsu> its gooing too slow no?
23:32:41  <amsu> =)
23:32:56  <glx> it scans all files at start
23:33:06  <amsu> waau
23:33:08  <Supercheese> Yeah, it can get slow, sadly
23:33:38  <amsu>
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23:33:49  <amsu> what about this..? scripts?
23:33:55  <amsu> what they mean?
23:33:57  <glx> forget scripts for now :)
23:34:07  <Supercheese> Game scripts are, hmm, things like additional goals/challenges for games
23:34:10  <Supercheese> they are entirely optional
23:34:43  <amsu> ahh ok spchee
23:34:58  <amsu> ohh sorrry
23:35:13  <amsu>  clicking each onee, y have a description.. :P
23:36:54  <keoz> don't bother with them if you're still not used to the game
23:37:15  <Supercheese> Even I haven't used one yet...
23:37:32  <keoz> You should try mine :)
23:37:46  <amsu> jaj
23:38:24  <amsu> ifi stsrted a city to grow up
23:38:50  <amsu> how y made to have trucks and cargo  in early years?
23:39:24  <keoz> what do you call, "early years" ?
23:39:29  <glx> without newgrf don't start before 1920
23:39:32  <amsu> ajjaj 1910
23:39:32  <Supercheese> You will want to download a NewGRF that has early vehicles
23:39:34  <amsu> 1900
23:39:37  <amsu> 1920
23:39:41  <Supercheese> I recommend eGRVTS
23:39:59  <amsu> SIR searching SIR !!
23:40:40  <amsu> i am downloading 38M the escenaios :P
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23:45:48  <amsu> supercheeese,. and what about having eGRVTS and eGRVTS2 ?
23:46:01  <amsu> or one o r the other?
23:46:02  <Supercheese> Choose one, naturally version 2 has improvements
23:46:03  <keoz> no interest
23:46:12  <Supercheese> but also it has fewer vehicles IIRC
23:46:14  <keoz> the 2 is just an updated version
23:46:40  <keoz> does it Supercheese ? didn't know
23:46:45  <Supercheese> I could be mistaken
23:47:02  <keoz> I think I never used version 1
23:47:03  <Supercheese> perhaps it was only the development versions that lacked vehicles
23:47:41  <Supercheese> I'll have to test
23:47:49  <amsu> how i uninstall  one ?
23:48:09  <Supercheese> Once you download Newgrfs, they still must be activated before they affect games
23:48:10  <amsu> i dont have the option
23:48:11  <keoz> you remove it from the actives NewGRFs
23:48:55  <amsu> in the same place y download it ?
23:49:33  <keoz> in the NewGRF window, you have two black boxes
23:49:36  <Supercheese> The NewGRF Settings window
23:49:43  <keoz> one contains the downloaded stuff
23:49:58  <keoz> the other one contains only the ones which you want to use
23:50:00  <Supercheese> or Configuration NewGRF, I suspect yours would say
23:50:04  <Supercheese> Configuracion*
23:51:20  <amsu> jajjaajaja
23:51:26  <amsu>
23:51:39  <amsu> i dont found the escenaries to play
23:51:46  <Supercheese> You have a lot of drives
23:51:50  <amsu> the ones i downloaded
23:51:51  <Supercheese> Goodness
23:51:56  <amsu> :(
23:52:38  <Supercheese> That explorer should have directed you to your Documents folder rather than root/Games, hmm
23:52:53  <Supercheese> although XP may not
23:53:06  <Supercheese> anyway, try navigating to OpenTTD\Scenarios
23:53:37  <Supercheese> or, well, scenario  -- no s
23:59:40  <amsu> ok

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