Log for #openttd on 28th August 2014:
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08:16:57  <Pikkaphone> yingtongyiddleipo
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08:20:38  <andythenorth> Pikkaphone: lo bob
08:20:49  <Pikkaphone> lo
08:21:02  <andythenorth> and AV9, it’s the worst thing ever
08:21:06  <Pikkaphone> you have hoss?
08:21:12  <andythenorth> I am actually offended that you even considered making it
08:21:23  <Pikkaphone> is it? It doesn't have ranges
08:22:04  * andythenorth could never run a blag with comments on it
08:22:15  <andythenorth> people would be wrong on my internet
08:22:24  <andythenorth> also I have hoss
08:22:39  <Pikkaphone> people can be wrong
08:22:44  <Pikkaphone> clearly
08:23:35  <andythenorth> also brake vans
08:23:38  <andythenorth> they’re wrong
08:23:40  <Pikkaphone> mmmm, hoss
08:24:05  <Pikkaphone> brake vans are a bad feature
08:24:16  <Pikkaphone> cabeese are fine though
08:24:31  <andythenorth> I have cabeesed my brakes
08:24:35  <andythenorth> at least in code
08:24:53  <Pikkaphone> I have fixed your doorbell from the ringing
08:25:00  <andythenorth> thanks
08:25:00  <Pikkaphone> there is no charge
08:25:02  <andythenorth> it has been sticky
08:25:19  <andythenorth> I keep having to talk myself out of ‘ideas’ :P
08:25:33  <andythenorth> latest bad feature: wagons go slower if no brake van
08:25:34  <Pikkaphone> such as?
08:25:41  <Pikkaphone> hmmmm
08:25:46  <andythenorth> bad feature
08:25:49  <Pikkaphone> but ai
08:25:56  <Pikkaphone> and bad feature
08:26:14  <Pikkaphone> brake van tycoon
08:26:44  <andythenorth> also more narrow gauge wagons, with different speed limits
08:26:46  <andythenorth> bad feature
08:26:54  <andythenorth> 45mph -> 55mph, who cares?
08:27:02  <andythenorth> just auto-replace management bollocks
08:27:05  <Pikkaphone> not me
08:27:34  <andythenorth> that makes two of us
08:27:36  <andythenorth> so that’s everybody
08:27:43  <Pikkaphone> pretty much
08:28:28  * andythenorth deletes cruft
08:28:32  <andythenorth> that FISH set, so crufty
08:28:33  <Pikkaphone> also it means drawing more wogans
08:29:27  <Pikkaphone> narrow gauge ships
08:29:45  <Pikkaphone> with brake vans
08:31:05  <andythenorth> Norris ship
08:31:06  <Pikkaphone> Where's heqboots? I photographed some handy work barges the other day.
08:31:18  <andythenorth> heqboots is an idea I considered
08:31:26  <andythenorth> dredgingsquid
08:31:34  <andythenorth> jackupbargesquid
08:31:40  <andythenorth> heavyliftsquid
08:31:53  <andythenorth> small problem of ‘not useful'
08:32:11  <andythenorth> also there should be a much bigger range of vehicles
08:32:18  <andythenorth> whilst also being a much smaller range of vehicles
08:32:24  <andythenorth> so that I can fit every niche
08:32:47  <andythenorth> I am really in agreement with your idea that niches are over-rated in TTD, and I would like more vehicles for my niches
08:32:59  <V453000> wtf are you considering again andy :D
08:33:30  <andythenorth>
08:33:33  <andythenorth> bootboots
08:33:41  <andythenorth>
08:34:17  <V453000> :D
08:34:31  <andythenorth>
08:34:33  <V453000> sounds good
08:34:45  <andythenorth>
08:34:52  <andythenorth> bargeboots
08:35:18  <andythenorth> V453000: you would enjoy the comments on pikka’s blag
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08:35:31  <andythenorth> except there’s one from V453000 who is rubbish
08:37:12  <V453000> :d
08:41:23  <V453000> the comments do not seem very interesting
08:41:43  <V453000> just shows that people are a bunch of spoilt fuckers who think one is going to upkeep their grfs forever and in ALL the possible ways
08:42:15  <andythenorth> I’ll do that!! me! me!
08:42:24  <V453000> admittedly making UKRS/NARS2 open sourced might be a great idea Pikkaphone
08:42:48  <andythenorth> NewNARS
08:42:53  <andythenorth> nmlNARS
08:42:56  <andythenorth> NARSNARS
08:43:05  <andythenorth> NARSRenewal
08:43:06  <V453000> noregearingNARS
08:43:23  <Pikkaphone> I've said anyone who wants to use those graphics can, v
08:43:35  <V453000> oh, sorry then :)
08:43:51  <abculatter_2> So, I had an idea for a new climate, wanted to see how feasible it would be before signing up for an account to post it: Interplanetary, which would, instead of water terrain, there would be 'Space' or 'Void' tiles. These would, if possible, count as a huge number of tiles when calculating distance for profit, but can only be traversed by expensive spacecraft, which would replace boats with spaceship yards replacing shipyards.
08:43:51  <abculatter_2> Additionally, land would generate in circles of (usually) one type of terrain, which would each have their own industries and requirements for town growth. (For example, a 'Terran' terrain would have agriculture, water, and oxygen, as well as many large cities and end-of-the-line industries that consume but don't produce, but have few processing and mineral-type industries.)
08:43:54  <Pikkaphone> nars is mostly dan's work anyway
08:44:04  <abculatter_2> As an example
08:44:05  <V453000> right
08:44:19  <Pikkaphone> also, uranium?
08:44:30  <abculatter_2> Yes uranium
08:44:34  <andythenorth> I suspect NARS 2 + Canset stuff might just show up as hosses
08:44:37  <abculatter_2> I support uranium
08:44:45  <andythenorth> but without all that realism bollocks
08:44:53  <Pikkaphone> yes but yeti uranium?
08:45:01  <andythenorth> radioactive snowman
08:45:03  <V453000> what is up with yeti uranium? :D
08:45:05  <andythenorth> abominable!
08:45:10  * andythenorth should go to the workings
08:45:14  <andythenorth> important things to do
08:45:20  <Pikkaphone> cargo classes, apparently
08:45:25  <andythenorth> always troubles
08:45:30  <Pikkaphone> good luck andy
08:45:32  <V453000> mhm
08:45:35  <andythenorth> I shall
08:45:41  <andythenorth> I shall luck good
08:45:45  <andythenorth> biab
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08:46:41  <Pikkaphone> abculatter: I think similar things have been suggested, go and check the forums :)
08:47:16  <V453000>
08:47:29  <V453000> CC_HAZARDOUS
08:48:24  <V453000> there is some wtf with cargoes in general with yeti
08:48:34  <V453000> only nuts seems to work, even with the default labels
08:49:37  <abculatter_2> Also, is there a mod for making industry in general a bit more complex?
08:50:10  <V453000> yeti/firs/ecs/pikka basic industries
08:51:51  <abculatter_2> So many acronyms
08:52:52  <abculatter_2> I don't see YETI on the wiki mod list?
08:53:16  <Pikkaphone> few vehicle sets define a vehicle for that cargo label.
08:54:20  <Pikkaphone> it's probably best to add another... Then for vehicles, exclude hazardous from the vehicles you don't want carrying uranium.
08:54:28  <V453000> wiki mod list
08:54:29  <V453000> ?
08:55:19  <abculatter_2>
08:55:41  <V453000> mhm perhaps bulk
08:55:50  <V453000> but no set has uranium sprites anyway
08:56:11  <Pikkaphone> they still have to be able to carry it
08:56:24  <Pikkaphone> that's the whole point of cargo classes
08:56:26  <V453000> true
08:56:52  <V453000> abculatter_2: that page is quite outdated/incomplete :)
08:56:57  <V453000> e.g. NUTS trains arent even there
08:57:18  <abculatter_2> Figured as much, I'm looking through the in-game list now
08:58:47  <V453000> that is considerably better :P
08:59:18  <Pikkaphone> someone suggests a newgrf review "magazine" every now and then
08:59:34  <Pikkaphone> but no one ever sticks with it
09:00:01  <V453000> bananas would have to get that, upkeeping any secondary site would be hell
09:00:38  <Pikkaphone> eh
09:00:54  <V453000> like a store inside of openttd
09:01:44  <Pikkaphone> a review blog could work
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09:02:06  <Pikkaphone> it's not like newgrfs come out a hundred a day
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09:02:58  <V453000> sure but inside of the game you could easily just click to download it etc
09:04:00  <Pikkaphone> ottd:// protocol
09:04:21  <Pikkaphone> install newgrf from your browser
09:04:34  <V453000> or that
09:04:44  <Pikkaphone> great feature
09:04:53  <Pikkaphone> doesn't it
09:05:13  <V453000> yarr
09:05:15  <V453000> go make it :D
09:06:23  <abculatter_2> Who is the author of YETI?
09:07:08  <V453000> it is written there?
09:08:13  <abculatter_2> It is a collaborative work? Or open-source? What does YETI even stand for?
09:08:42  <V453000>
09:09:06  <abculatter_2> Yeah I'm looking at that site
09:09:28  <V453000> 1 author, many translator
09:09:39  <V453000> license is CC BY SA I believe
09:09:56  <abculatter_2> Ah, okay.
09:10:13  <Pikkaphone> what a ridiculous license
09:10:23  <abculatter_2> I take it 'manager' is the author?
09:10:36  <V453000> yes
09:10:42  <V453000> Pikkaphone: does its job doesnt it? :d
09:11:43  <Pikkaphone> does it?
09:11:58  <V453000> dunno had no lawsuits yet :D
09:12:39  <Pikkaphone> okay
09:13:05  <Pikkaphone> something to do this weekend, then
09:13:17  <V453000> why is CC BY SA that bad then?
09:13:38  <Pikkaphone> eh
09:13:46  <Pikkaphone> they're all silly
09:13:54  <V453000> what do you mean
09:14:01  <Pikkaphone> if you're not suing anyone
09:14:58  <V453000> well sure but the people who would like to eventually like to use my work cant just go and assume that I wont sue them :P
09:15:31  <Pikkaphone> also, the world seems to think any cc license means "put the license info at the bottom and you can use this photo for anything"
09:16:18  <V453000> doesnt really matter, I dont need to disallow anything
09:16:22  <Pikkaphone> if my recent uni experience is anything to go by
09:16:37  <peter1138> NC/ND is the stupid one.
09:17:29  <Pikkaphone> your face is the stupid one
09:19:18  <Pikkaphone> but yeah, people use ND photos in presentations and videos all the time
09:19:42  <Pikkaphone> silly people, silly license
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09:26:00  <Pikkaphone> sorted?
09:27:39  <abculatter_2> Soooo, just finished reading , I like the 'bring workers for more yield but you don't need them' bit.
09:28:52  <Pikkaphone> yeti is pro
09:29:15  <Pikkaphone> 32bpp and all
09:30:23  <peter1138> Until we next change how 32bpp works
09:30:46  <Pikkaphone>  fiendish!
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09:32:23  <Pikkaphone> also, replace newgrf with nogrf, in squirrel
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09:35:17  <peter1138> don't forget the 3d models
09:37:59  <Pikkaphone> oops, I did
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09:43:47  <abculatter_2> Uh, how do I download this here?
09:44:17  <abculatter_2> Nevermind
09:45:50  <abculatter_2> Didn't know you were supposed to check the little checkbox to download stuff, would be nice if that had a label or something...
09:46:42  <andythenorth> there’s a little checkbox? :o
09:46:51  <andythenorth> might be browser specific
09:46:55  <andythenorth> no checkbox for me
09:47:24  <andythenorth> also can someone just 32bpp all my stuff, ta
09:48:50  <abculatter_2> Oh, uh, I meant in-game
09:49:00  <abculatter_2> I probably should have specified that
09:50:44  <abculatter_2> I really, REALLY wish there was a way to increase the interface size/zoom in the interface... Unless there is a way that I haven't found?
09:53:20  <Pikkaphone> andythenorth : just increase the colour depth in photogimp? 32bpp achieved. :D
09:54:22  <Pikkaphone> is dan still talking about drawing ez?
09:55:33  <Pikkaphone> Oh
09:56:05  <Pikkaphone> that tasmanian sheep
09:56:50  <Pikkaphone> didn't even break the record, in the end
09:57:23  <Pikkaphone> shameful display
10:00:19  <andythenorth> Pikkaphone: sometimes we smoke some crack and talk about drawing 2x
10:00:31  <andythenorth> I even considered redrawing FIRS @2x
10:00:52  <andythenorth> and as I said to a passing flying pig, the work would be worth it
10:01:10  <andythenorth> I have enough to do retina-ising all the internet images in my life :P
10:01:58  <Pikkaphone> wot larks
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10:02:47  <peter1138> abculatter_2, there's a way, by editing the config file
10:03:01  <abculatter_2> Please continue
10:11:34  <abculatter_2> peter1138, which setting do I change in the config file?
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10:42:28  <abculatter_2> Anyone?
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10:48:45  <peter1138> fonts and font sizes
10:50:02  <abculatter_2> Set it to what? There's no default value for any of the font sizes in the config.
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10:52:58  <abculatter_2> And both 'true' and '1' caused an error
10:53:50  <abculatter_2> peter1138?
10:54:35  <Pikka> set the font to the name of a font on your computer
10:54:48  <Pikka> set the size to the point size you want
10:55:01  <Pikka> 10-12 is "normal size" text, higher numbers are bigger
10:55:13  <abculatter_2> Huh
10:55:16  <abculatter_2> Thanks
10:55:36  <Pikka> you'
10:55:37  <Pikka> re
10:55:39  <Pikka> welcome
10:55:47  <abculatter_2> lol
10:58:11  <abculatter_2> What are the generic 'small_size' settings?
10:58:37  <abculatter_2> And what is Mono size?
10:59:23  <Pikka> by default, I believe, OpenTTD uses the character sprites out of the base set if no font is specified, so it's no size as such
11:00:21  <abculatter_2> "no size as such"?
11:00:49  <Pikka> it's using sprites, rather than a truetype font
11:01:10  <Pikka>
11:01:18  <Pikka> somewhat out of date I think, but it gives you the idea
11:01:20  <abculatter_2> Yes I already found that page
11:02:18  <abculatter_2> Oh, just realized I misread a part of it
11:02:27  <abculatter_2> Okay now things make sense
11:02:49  <abculatter_2> Still dont know what mono_size is
11:02:53  <abculatter_2> though
11:02:57  <Pikka> me neither
11:03:09  <abculatter_2> lol
11:04:19  <abculatter_2> Hmmm... Is there a place that I can reliably find font files on my computer, or should I just download one?
11:04:32  <Pikka> I use Calibri
11:04:47  <Pikka> if you want to see a list, probably the easiest way is to start up the word processor of your choice
11:04:54  <Pikka> a list of what you have, that is
11:05:40  <abculatter_2> Well yeah, but I meant where are those fonts actually stored? Since the wiki seems to say that you need the file path
11:05:46  <Pikka> you don't
11:05:55  <Pikka> that's out of date afaia
11:07:03  <abculatter_2> So there's a default font storage folder somewhere?
11:07:49  <Pikka> possibly. but if you just give it the font name it will ask your OS and it will find it, in the same way your word processor does.
11:08:04  <Pikka> I could be wrong, try it and see.
11:08:45  <abculatter_2> Huh
11:08:51  <abculatter_2> Yup, that worked
11:08:55  <abculatter_2> That's interesting
11:12:38  <abculatter_2> I can read things!
11:12:40  <abculatter_2> Yay!
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11:21:45  <peter1138> mono_size is... the size of mono-spaced text. Yes, it's a bit odd.
11:22:00  <Pikka> where is it used though
11:22:01  <peter1138> it's used for readmes and licenses i think
11:22:08  <Pikka> oh, right
11:22:15  <peter1138> yeah, the bit nobody reads anyway
11:22:21  <Pikka> :D
11:24:36  <abculatter_2> lol
11:25:00  <abculatter_2> Trucks are better then trains for uneven terrain, right?
11:28:35  <V453000> no
11:29:57  <abculatter_2> So, then the only really option when you have uneven terrain is to just deal with your trains going ridiculously slow?
11:30:25  <peter1138> Well you could flatten it.
11:30:36  <peter1138> Or use the so-called "realistic" acceleration model;
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11:33:04  <V453000> it should be called normal or not-retarded or something
11:33:09  <V453000> realistic implies something stupid
11:35:07  <andythenorth> just use bigger trains
11:35:09  <andythenorth> more power
11:35:18  <andythenorth> how good is our physics?
11:35:42  <andythenorth> do DPUs make any difference to train handling?
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11:37:23  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing in this game should be called "realistic"
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11:40:09  <abculatter_2> Does horsepower increase uphill speed in the non-realistic model?
11:41:49  <andythenorth> probably
11:42:48  <planetmaker> power doesn't increase max speed. But it increases the force which can be exerted
11:43:03  <abculatter_2> Is there a way to extend a train station without just adding another station to one end?
11:43:03  <planetmaker> with sufficient power the max speed won't be changed when going uphill.
11:43:05  <abculatter_2> And I know
11:43:15  * andythenorth diverted by
11:44:05  <b_jonas> abculatter_2: you can just demolish the station and build a new one in its place
11:44:36  <Pikka> or build a new longer station over the top
11:46:12  <abculatter_2> Ugh, it costs the full station cost?
11:46:33  <abculatter_2> Why doesn't it just automatically merge the two stations into one?
11:46:36  <abculatter_2> >->
11:46:47  <Pikka> it does
11:46:53  <Pikka> if you "just add another station to one end"
11:47:12  <Pikka> if you overbuild, you're rebuilding the tiles so you get to pay for them again
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11:47:55  <abculatter_2> But there will still be two little houses
11:48:07  <abculatter_2> Aesthetics
11:48:11  <Pikka> yes
11:48:17  <abculatter_2> They are important.
11:48:19  <Pikka> well, you get to pay for your aesthetics
11:48:31  <Pikka> if you want a big roof over two tracks, you don't get to pay for just half of it
11:48:36  <abculatter_2> Hissssssssss
11:50:58  <andythenorth> it’s only money
11:51:01  <andythenorth> there’s loads of it
11:51:14  * andythenorth is perplexed by people worrying about costs
11:51:24  <andythenorth> it’s a route-building game, not an economic game :D
11:51:46  * andythenorth should start a blag
11:52:58  <abculatter_2> More money = more trains
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11:54:05  <andythenorth> more trains = more money
11:54:11  <andythenorth> I see where you’re going with that
11:54:17  <andythenorth> a virtuous circle
11:54:45  <abculatter_2> Yes exactly
11:54:55  <abculatter_2> And more money means more points
11:55:02  <abculatter_2> More points means winning
11:55:13  <abculatter_2> Even if you're the referee
11:57:13  <peter1138> winning? what's that?
11:57:33  <abculatter_2> I dunno, but I heard it's supposed to be good or something?
11:57:43  <abculatter_2> Maybe?
11:57:45  <abculatter_2> Shrug
12:01:09  <andythenorth> GS is winning
12:01:20  <andythenorth> I won at vanilla TTD once
12:01:21  <andythenorth> I think
12:01:26  <andythenorth> it involves some shenanigans
12:01:32  <andythenorth> aggressively replacing vehicles
12:01:38  <andythenorth> and closing low-profit routes
12:01:39  <Pikka>
12:01:48  <Pikka> with the controversial opinion "buildings are buildings"
12:02:08  <andythenorth> it is rare
12:02:25  <andythenorth> I have a stack of Bombay photos intended for ‘tropic building renewal'
12:02:34  <andythenorth> a project I fear will be unstarted before my death
12:02:41  <b_jonas> nice
12:03:21  <Pikka> that lovely brown-green brisbane river water, too
12:03:22  <__ln__> after your death you'll have much more time as you're not expected to e.g. go to work
12:04:10  <andythenorth> I shall look forward to that
12:04:31  <peter1138> don't be too sure on that
12:05:05  <andythenorth> meetings meetings meetings probably
12:06:28  <abculatter_2> Is there a way to make a station begin accumulating materials before a train arrives?
12:06:42  <Pikka> yes
12:06:56  <Pikka> turn off that feature in the advanced settings, whatever it's called
12:07:34  <andythenorth> only deliver cargo when a train is waiting
12:07:37  <andythenorth> or whatever
12:07:47  <Pikka> so traincentric
12:07:53  <andythenorth> it’s broken with autorefittings anyway
12:08:04  <andythenorth> or cdist
12:08:05  <andythenorth> or both
12:08:12  <Pikka> you have to kickstart the routes sometimes
12:08:15  <andythenorth> autorefittings is or was quite broken
12:09:03  <andythenorth> I proved it with a savegame and everything
12:09:05  <andythenorth> not even FUD
12:10:34  <abculatter_2> Why isn't there just a button in the station GUI for turning on/off what the station accepts from nearby industries?
12:10:51  <Pikka> because you didn't code such a feature yet
12:11:36  <Pikka> have you just discovered why the "station doesn't begin accumulating materials" feature exists? ;)
12:12:11  <Pikka> where is that setting anyway, I can't find it D:
12:13:51  <abculatter_2> Well, it's just a logical thing to have, doesn't really take much playing before you realize that sometimes you don't want passengers accumulating in your oil well station. Plus, whole reason I'm playing OTTD is because I used to play Locomotion, and if I remember correctly that had a feature similar to what's in OTTD
12:15:19  <abculatter_2> Is there a way to view what vehicles are available without making a depot?
12:15:23  <andythenorth> yes
12:15:30  <andythenorth> on the menu for vehicle type
12:15:38  <andythenorth> list available vehicles or such
12:15:51  <andythenorth> useful
12:16:07  <Pikka> "Available x"
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12:16:18  <b_jonas> yes, that's useful for airplanes
12:16:30  <b_jonas> in the early game when you airports are relatively expensive
12:16:36  <b_jonas> no wait
12:16:49  <b_jonas> I mean in the midgame when small airports are no longer available but you'd just want to start doing airplanes
12:21:33  <Pikka> huh
12:22:24  <Pikka> the setting name for the only-when-first-train-arrives is selectgoods, but it doesn't appear to be in the settings menu? is it that much of a no-brainer that everyone wants it turned on? :P
12:22:49  <Pikka> or am I just blind and can't find it
12:22:50  <Pikka> ?
12:28:08  <abculatter_2> Ugghhhh, the next industry I wanna make a train line to is completely surrounded by farms... Farmlands is expensive.
12:38:46  <abculatter_2> Is there a way to distribute cargo evenly between two stations?
12:40:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: most likely you're blind, or unable to put in correct search terms, or you didn't select the right settings filter
12:43:46  <Pikka> where is it, then? :o
12:44:58  <b_jonas> Pikka:
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12:50:27  <b_jonas> can newgrf statoins have platforms with diagonal rails in them?
12:52:05  <Pikka> hmm, you know what
12:52:12  <peter1138>
12:52:16  <Pikka> I don't have the "stations" category of settings :D
12:52:16  <peter1138> I had a patch for that
12:52:22  <Pikka> how did this happen
12:52:36  <peter1138> Your settings settings setting is set incorrectly.
12:53:37  <Pikka> I suppose I should update a nightly or sommat
12:53:52  <b_jonas> Pikka: I don't know then
12:54:10  <b_jonas> peter1138: looks nice, where is that from?
12:54:35  <b_jonas> wow, I want to build those
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13:18:09  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> I had a patch for that <-- but that actually didn't work with newgrfs, so is not an answer to the question :p
13:18:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: the filters are set at the top of the window
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13:21:32  <Pikka> Eddi / anyone who cares:
13:21:36  * Pikka shrugs
13:22:38  <V453000> tis in Limitations now Pikka
13:22:39  <V453000> or so
13:22:50  <V453000> ie, Stations submenu no longer uxistz
13:22:53  <Pikka> but it's not there
13:22:58  <Pikka> in the "station" filtered
13:23:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: and if you filter for "cargo"?
13:25:38  <Pikka>
13:25:51  <Pikka> and the whole "limitations" tree
13:26:26  <Pikka> someone ate the setting
13:27:16  <Pikka> perhaps it's just this nightly though and it came back, I'll update before complaining too loudly
13:28:33  <Eddi|zuHause> in any case, you should be able to flip the setting from the console
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13:28:45  <Pikka> I can, and don't really want to
13:29:00  <Pikka> abculatter_2 was asking about it
13:29:17  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe things got weird in one of the "clean out some settings" runs...
13:29:28  <Pikka> maybe
13:32:04  <abculatter_2> I really hate how the station ratings make long-distance train transport lines crap...
13:32:35  <andythenorth> what’s max ship speed?
13:34:12  <Pikka> three
13:34:13  <V453000> abculatter_2: wtf?
13:34:33  <V453000> everybody keeps ranting how distance is everything XD
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13:34:49  <abculatter_2> Well, unless I'm doing something terribly wrong.
13:34:53  <V453000> apparently
13:34:57  <V453000> you do use signals, right?
13:35:03  <Pikka> he's complaining that his train takes a long time and his station ratings drop while it's travelling
13:35:16  <abculatter_2> No, it's not just when it's traveling
13:35:18  <V453000> to use multiple trains on the track so that your rating never drops since train is always loading
13:35:20  <Pikka> because if your station rating isn't 100% you're doing something wrong
13:35:44  <V453000> 93% ;)
13:36:09  <Pikka> andy; it's 80-odd mph?
13:36:40  <Pikka> 255 / 3.2?
13:36:45  <abculatter_2> Sigh... So basically you're forced to make every train line have at least two trains in it?
13:36:59  <Pikka> no
13:37:18  <Pikka> you could also not care about the station rating. as long as the train gets a load and makes money.
13:37:39  <V453000> ^
13:38:29  <V453000> you are not forced to do anything but if you want your industries to have good % transported and hence increase production (original industries work that way), you need to have a train always loading, yes
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13:39:05  <Pikka> you broke him
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13:43:55  <abculatter_2> Blubluh technology
13:44:35  <abculatter_2> Anyway, the local station rating, from what I can tell, seems to be the percentage of stuff produced local industries will give you to be transported
13:45:04  <abculatter_2> Am I mistaken in this?
13:45:05  <Pinkbeast> Station rating looks a bit odd sometimes (especially for pax, IIRC)
13:45:15  <Pikka> more or less. but if your one slow train goes a long way, doesn't it get a decent load anyway?
13:46:09  <abculatter_2> Not really.
13:48:21  <abculatter_2> Only getting 20-40% of an industry's output really isn't very much, especially since I tried to do this as my first thing. Not only was the train slow, but also usually only came back half full when it wasn't on 'wait for full load'
13:48:25  <Pinkbeast> You may as well leave it loading until it's full; then it will always run full and rating will be less bad.
13:49:02  <abculatter_2> That didn't really help much. It did help, though.
13:50:23  <Pinkbeast> Two short trains? They can run with only one additional platform and a little trackwork at the loading station.
13:52:55  <abculatter_2> Yeah, that seems like the only option there really is... I was hoping to be able to avoid signals and be lazy, oh well.
13:53:01  <andythenorth> Pikka: if a ship is trying to do 91mph, think it might overflow in a signed byte? o_O
13:53:11  <andythenorth> 79mph might be the limit iirc
13:53:14  <Pikka> yes
13:53:21  <andythenorth> that’s today’s bug then :)
13:53:24  <Pikka> didn't I say that in the forum just now? ;)
13:53:31  * andythenorth is behind the times
13:53:51  <andythenorth> how can I read the forum when I am reading slideshares about SAAS pricing? :(
13:54:08  <keoz> Is there someone here who could remove a just uploaded version of a GS on Bananas ? Using musa, I included /lang, thinking that it would eventually take the included *.txt file (or complaining, which it didn't) which resulted in an uncomplete upload :/
13:54:14  <Pikka> you have two eyes, don't you?
13:54:23  <andythenorth> I do yes
13:54:29  <andythenorth> one is blurry though
13:54:39  <Pikka> use that one for SAAS pricing
13:55:10  <andythenorth> good point
13:55:27  <Pikka> keoz: can you just reupload and replace it? might be faster than waiting for a moderator response :)
13:55:42  <abculatter_2> Heh, I got a builder's yard that has 'bridge' at the end of the local town's name, so it looks like it's called 'Bridge Builder's Yard'. I should go ask if they have a bridge to sell me.
13:56:19  <Pinkbeast> abculatter_2: The signals for "the entire line is one block except for the loading station" are not too bad. :-)
13:56:36  <andythenorth> can haz moar ships plz
13:56:39  <andythenorth> I dunno
13:56:59  <keoz> Pikka: at least with musa, I can't replace it, it complains about the file being already uploaded
13:57:16  <Pikka> do you need to increment the version number?
13:57:17  <keoz> I'll try to update from within bananas
13:57:46  <keoz> I'd like avoid to increment version number just for a missing file :)
13:59:34  <Pikka> I think TrueBrain is the God of Bananas, but he doesn't appear to be here...
14:00:03  <Pikka> planetmaker may or may not be able to help
14:01:08  <keoz> I hope. I'll see when he's here.
14:02:01  <andythenorth> “Your ship set is too big and has too many useless ships, please add some more"
14:02:02  <andythenorth> thanks
14:04:36  <abculatter_2> Hmmm... Am I supposed to not see any servers when I open the multiplayer window?
14:04:42  <abculatter_2> In the main menu?
14:04:53  <Pikka> did you change from LAN to Internet?
14:04:58  <keoz> "Search on the internet"
14:05:11  <keoz> or something like that
14:05:29  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the world is full of paradices
14:05:30  <abculatter_2> I don't see that button, and "Find Server" did nothing
14:05:43  <Pikka> paradoxes too, Eddi
14:06:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: that was deliberate :p
14:06:26  <abculatter_2> Are you supposed to add servers yourself to this list?
14:06:37  *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
14:06:40  <Pikka> it should search. it might be your firewall or something.
14:06:44  <Pikka> ask the wiki :D
14:07:12  <Pikka> "find server" is the button
14:07:48  <keoz> abculatter_2: no, you don't need to add anything.
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14:29:22  <peter1138> hmm, it's changed "Advertised" Yes/No
14:29:29  <peter1138> need it on yes
14:32:03  <abculatter_2> Still nothin for me
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14:36:36  <keoz> Ok. I could solve the problem by giving a subversion to bananas and making a fake change in the code.
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14:41:05  <Eddi|zuHause> keoz: whatever is on bananas is there forever, whatever new you put there must have a higher version (and different checksum)
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14:52:52  <keoz> Eddi|zuHause: I know and understand this rule, but here it was not intended as a new version, more as fixing a wrong upload.
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14:53:14  <keoz> Anyway, it's been solved.
14:53:21  <Eddi|zuHause> that is essentially the same thing.
14:54:05  <Eddi|zuHause> what if someone downloaded it before fixing your upload? they'll have a "broken" version forever and cannot fix it by downloading an update
14:54:40  <keoz> Yes, that's right ...
14:55:10  <keoz> As a matter of fact, 10 people at least downloaded the broken version before I fix that :p
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15:15:12  <abculatter_2> +500,000 euros from my third year
15:15:16  <abculatter_2> Airplanes OP
15:19:26  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
15:19:51  <Eddi|zuHause> until you enable cargodist and want to favour capacity over raw income...
15:24:07  <peter1138> or enable infrastructure costs
15:24:29  <Eddi|zuHause> keoz: usual package managers handle this by adding stuff to the version. so instead of a package "0.4.0" you have actually a package "0.4.0-1", and if only the packaging changes you get "0.4.0-2"
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15:29:18  <abculatter_2> Just wondering, anyone here watch Game of Thrones?
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15:33:10  <Alberth> why would you do that when you can look at pretty trains driving on tracks you laid yourself?
15:34:30  <keoz> Thinking about some Westeros style NewGRF ?
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15:36:24  <keoz> Eddi|zuHause: for me I did 3 -> 3.1 (the point here being also that in the base code, GS only accept major version numbers, such as 1, 2, 3 ...
15:36:44  <keoz> I don't know if BaNaNas would have token 3-1 :)
15:37:20  <abculatter_2> Actually, I just downloaded a map based off the Game of Thrones speculative world map, for shits and giggles, since I've never seen it before.
15:37:50  <abculatter_2> I wanted to know if oil rigs fit into its setting. I would think they wouldn't.
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15:46:33  <Alberth> quak
15:49:46  <andythenorth> quak quak
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15:51:52  <frosch123> hai
15:52:05  <Alberth> hi hi
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16:04:27  <andythenorth> hmm
16:04:31  <andythenorth> small sets are a BAD FEATURE
16:04:34  <andythenorth> people hate them
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16:09:53  <keoz> That's normal. Small sets are anti-eyecandy.
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16:43:04  <Alberth> they are harder to design
16:45:00  <keoz> Also, the point isn't necessary in choosing between small or big, but finding a coherent compromise.
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17:04:03  <Eddi|zuHause> my coherent compromise definitely tends towards the "big" side
17:08:38  <Alberth> yeti et al :)
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18:28:53  <Alberth> running costs higher than the engine value :p
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18:35:15  <andythenorth> small sets aren’t harder to design
18:35:19  <andythenorth> they’re way easier
18:36:01  <andythenorth> also compromise is an inevitable fact of most designs, but not the place you want to start from or end up :P
18:36:58  <Alberth> do running costs change?
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18:39:21  <frosch123> Alberth: cars can be more valuable when completely fueled
18:39:58  <Alberth> apparently :)
18:40:19  <Alberth> apparently moving all that fuel is very costly
18:41:28  <andythenorth> Alberth: was the costs question specific to something? o_O
18:41:42  <Alberth> andythenorth: yes
18:41:57  <Alberth> my running costs are higher than advertised
18:43:38  <Alberth>
18:45:48  <planetmaker> hi ho
18:45:54  <Alberth> ho hi
18:46:00  <planetmaker> Alberth: running costs for wagons? (dunno if that works)
18:46:03  <Alberth> how was the talk?
18:46:10  <planetmaker> was quite ok, I think
18:46:26  <planetmaker> felt instantaneous better afterwards
18:46:31  <Alberth> :)
18:47:02  <Alberth> not sure it would be recommended as doctor advice :)
18:47:13  <planetmaker> :P probably not
18:48:03  <planetmaker> and the French cuisine in a restaurant a collegue and myself went afterwards was a great reward, too
18:48:30  <Alberth> you were just hungry afterwards :D   :)
18:48:53  <planetmaker> it was dinner time... I usually get hungry by around 18h :)
18:49:42  <planetmaker> they have a strange schedule here... 1h session in the morning, lunch, and then 2.5 hour session
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18:51:28  <andythenorth> Alberth: wagon costs?
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18:51:37  <andythenorth> IH sets high costs
18:51:49  <andythenorth> I don’t do any variable cost magic, way too much effort
18:52:07  <planetmaker> :)
18:52:13  <planetmaker> and mostly pointless anyway
18:52:51  <Alberth> looks that way 8*350
18:54:51  <andythenorth> wagon costs are untested :)
18:55:29  <andythenorth> but the numbers are the correct costs
18:55:37  <andythenorth> if you can’t make money, let me know, I’ll reduce them
18:55:44  <andythenorth> and blame frosch123 :D
18:56:56  <Alberth> nah, seems fine, 160K income, 70K payments
18:57:16  <Alberth> I should just stop building :)
18:58:35  <Alberth> hmm +400, not very much :)
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18:59:00  <Alberth> hi Wolf01
18:59:13  <Wolf01> hi hi
19:01:11  <andythenorth> Alberth: let me know if the costs are too low also :P
19:01:34  <andythenorth> the thinking is, trains are quite cheap to build, but you need a lot to make serious money
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19:01:45  <andythenorth> so you can build out a big network quite fast
19:01:51  <andythenorth> otherwise boring
19:02:01  <andythenorth> dunno if they’re cheap enough though
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19:05:56  <frosch123> yay, iron horse?
19:06:32  <Alberth> yes :)
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19:18:47  <Alberth> it's fun if the value of an engine is lower than the yearly running cost :p
19:20:14  <andythenorth> probably realistic!
19:24:39  <Alberth> ugh, change engine and the train is .01 longer
19:24:46  <Alberth> 0.1
19:25:53  <andythenorth> screenshot?
19:26:05  <andythenorth> I know it happens with some combinations
19:26:53  <Alberth> need more money :p
19:29:51  <Alberth>
19:30:54  <Alberth> 0-8-0 is 40 years later, more powerful, but slower
19:31:34  <andythenorth> it’s there because Dan likes it :)
19:31:49  <andythenorth> it’s marginally useful if you have dedicated coal lines
19:31:52  <andythenorth> otherwise
19:32:08  <Alberth> wood hauling? :)
19:32:15  <andythenorth> yeah that too
19:32:31  <andythenorth> I would argue to take it out, but I think a set needs one or two near-pointless things
19:32:44  <andythenorth> adds character
19:32:47  <planetmaker> 0-8-0 - is that the big boy?
19:32:59  <andythenorth> nah
19:34:25  <andythenorth> Alberth: we considered doing everything in 0.5 or 1.0 lengths
19:34:29  <andythenorth> but it’s a bit limiting
19:35:14  <Alberth> I can imagine, it's more along V's street
19:35:43  <Alberth> if you add a car, you get 5.0 and 5.1, which is unfortunate
19:36:07  <andythenorth> sad :(
19:36:16  <andythenorth> don’t have a fix :)
19:38:49  <Alberth> 0-8-0 is faster, the extra power and TE makes the difference
19:39:40  <Alberth> 0-6-0 with coal may theoretically do 88km/h, but it doesn't go faster than 72, the peed of the 0-8-0
19:40:07  <Alberth> should try the 0-8-0 with the same coal :)
19:41:25  <andythenorth> you have 4x weight?
19:42:24  <Alberth> yes
19:44:28  <andythenorth> so that engine does have a use :)
19:44:31  <andythenorth> good to know
19:45:39  <Alberth> you may want to make the top speed a little higher, from 88km/h to 72km/h in 40 years development is a bit weird :)
19:46:04  <andythenorth> "realism”
19:46:27  * Alberth hits andythenorth realistically
19:48:33  * andythenorth fixes hovercraft
19:51:25  <frosch123> night
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19:51:33  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> Alberth: cars can be more valuable when completely fueled <-- my sister once drove a car on the last drop that she wasn't allowed to fill up because it was about to be sold
19:52:04  <Alberth> :)
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19:57:38  <planetmaker> did those previous tags build w/o problem, andythenorth?
19:58:41  <andythenorth> looks like it
19:58:47  <andythenorth> did rc-4 and rc-5 fail?
19:58:51  <andythenorth> I was not in the devzone channel
19:58:51  <planetmaker> hm, obviously. Dunno why this fails. Yep
19:58:59  <planetmaker> it was. But you're not there
19:59:02  <andythenorth> fails on python 2 / 3 path stuff probably
19:59:12  <andythenorth> will Jenkins tell me?
19:59:33  <planetmaker> the console log says that it failed to find revision 'squid'
19:59:54  <Alberth> :)
20:00:21  <andythenorth> failing on - chars?
20:01:02  <planetmaker> well. I'm not aware of having changed anything since -rc3. I wasn't at home much, since
20:01:40  <andythenorth> the significant change is switch to nml tip
20:01:47  <andythenorth> so I expected that to be troublesome
20:01:51  <andythenorth> but this looks something else
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20:10:22  <andythenorth> bloody river boots
20:10:27  <andythenorth> everyone is obsessed with them
20:10:46  <Alberth> nah, /me isn't
20:11:31  <Alberth> I turned rivers off some time ago, too annoying for tracks
20:11:33  <andythenorth> they’re totally pointless
20:11:53  <andythenorth> I only leave them on because I drew them, and it was a *lot* of fiddly drawing
20:11:58  <Alberth> it's cheap transport in competitive games perhaps
20:12:03  <andythenorth> Worst Feature Ever
20:12:55  <Alberth> in some sense, perhaps the current engines are too strong?
20:13:21  <andythenorth> IH?
20:13:27  <Alberth> ie am I supposed to be able to haul 4.8 train filled with wood and 1 engine?
20:13:31  <andythenorth> yes
20:13:38  <andythenorth> I play with freight multiplier 1x
20:13:39  <andythenorth> :P
20:13:43  <Alberth> at 60km/h at weight 4x ?
20:13:50  <andythenorth> probably yes
20:13:58  <andythenorth> the brit roster is rather fast and powerful
20:14:06  <andythenorth> too fast :P
20:14:09  * andythenorth is impatient
20:14:16  <Alberth> :D
20:14:19  <andythenorth> also I only play cargo goal gamescripts
20:14:28  <andythenorth> that might be influencing my set design rather a lot
20:14:48  <Alberth> I always like to have 2 engines in my trains, it looks much nicer, imho
20:14:58  <andythenorth> use two small tank engines
20:15:31  <Eddi|zuHause> rivers are cool, but for early game canals are way too expensive, even as short additions to rivers. and lack of river docks is annoying
20:15:44  <Alberth> nuts has these double headed steam engines running at 150km/h :)
20:17:33  <Alberth> perhaps I should play with bigger freight multipliers :p
20:18:33  <andythenorth>
20:18:37  <andythenorth> it’s even realisms!
20:22:15  <Alberth> :)
20:23:45  <planetmaker> the 40+ wagon ore trains are pulled by two engines here, too
20:26:20  <andythenorth> who are these people struggling to make money with ships?
20:26:22  <andythenorth> ships print money
20:26:27  <andythenorth> no infrastructure cost
20:26:29  <andythenorth> no queues
20:26:35  <andythenorth> no contention
20:29:15  <Alberth> not enough distance perhaps, and they think they are too slow?
20:29:37  <Alberth> perhaps not enough stuff to transport
20:31:09  <andythenorth> NO SKILLS!
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20:34:53  <Alberth> can't you let them play with fish instead?
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20:42:52  <Eddi|zuHause> two steam engines was common even on passenger trains, when they had steeper inclines to travel.
20:44:39  <andythenorth> Alberth: FISH is now forbidden
20:44:45  <andythenorth> I wish to remove it from all places
20:44:50  <Alberth> :O
20:44:51  <andythenorth> including banaanans
20:44:56  <andythenorth> and all of your computers
20:45:01  <planetmaker> :D
20:45:39  <andythenorth> FISH has sunk
20:45:51  <Eddi|zuHause> you can tell apple to remove it from all iDevices
20:46:08  <Eddi|zuHause> remote deletion!
20:46:28  <Alberth> gn
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20:49:29  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: good idea
20:57:12  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Oh, I must lobby you about river boats here too!
20:57:20  <andythenorth> you can try
20:57:35  <andythenorth> river boats are rubbish
20:57:38  <andythenorth> rivers are rubbish
20:57:39  <andythenorth> also
20:57:47  <andythenorth> rivers look bad
20:57:57  <FLHerne> Most annoying thing about them is the pathfinder being broken on rivers
20:58:00  <andythenorth> locks are 3 tiles when they should be 2
20:58:04  <andythenorth> pathfinder is very broken
20:58:33  <andythenorth> (allow 90’ turns can help the pathfinder on rivers a bit - it at least stops getting stuck so often)
20:58:44  <andythenorth> building docks on rivers is an abomination
20:58:50  <andythenorth> rivers are never 2 tiles wide
20:58:57  <andythenorth> rivers look bad
20:59:08  <andythenorth> did I cover everything?
20:59:15  <FLHerne> They look alright in valleys, but that needs a custom heightmap
20:59:28  <andythenorth> might as well build a channel at sea level
20:59:33  <FLHerne> Luckily, many newer heightmaps feature river valleys :-)
20:59:53  <andythenorth> at least then you can bridge them for rails / roads
20:59:56  <andythenorth> I just bulldoze them
21:00:01  <FLHerne> Flat docks are something that's needed, certainly. Is there not a patch for that? There's a patch for everything
21:00:04  <andythenorth> rivers should be deleted
21:00:24  <andythenorth> also river boats are pointless
21:00:28  <andythenorth> just use boats
21:00:52  <FLHerne> FISH didn't have sufficient variety in small boats before
21:01:01  * FLHerne uses one heck of a lot of them
21:01:16  <andythenorth> you got bored of seeing the same one>
21:01:16  <andythenorth> ?
21:01:50  <FLHerne> Yep. And it would be even worse if the ones on the rivers were the same too
21:02:09  <andythenorth> rivers are silly
21:02:11  <FLHerne> The new variety of larger freighters is nice though :-)
21:02:14  <andythenorth> you found me a bug also
21:02:26  <andythenorth> Marstein Freighter should be river-capable
21:02:28  <andythenorth> thanks
21:02:32  <FLHerne> Um?
21:02:50  <FLHerne> Oh, is that the renamed Tuskawhatsit?
21:02:58  <andythenorth> probly
21:03:00  <andythenorth> so many names
21:03:15  <andythenorth> btw, it’s a different grfid to FISH :P
21:03:19  <andythenorth> so you can use both
21:03:22  <andythenorth> intentionally
21:03:53  <FLHerne> Nifty, might end up doing that
21:04:16  <andythenorth> hmm
21:04:30  <andythenorth> should the Altamira be river capable?  360t?  Maybe
21:05:08  <andythenorth> also maybe not
21:05:30  <andythenorth> FLHerne: I’ll give you a cookie, hangon
21:06:33  <FLHerne> No, everything bigger than a Tuskawhatsit looks silly on a river IME
21:07:13  <FLHerne> That does go for the big barges, o/c
21:07:40  <andythenorth> they spread beyond the banks horribly on river / canal
21:07:42  <FLHerne> But they're good on small lakes, because the proper freighters look silly there
21:07:53  <andythenorth> here
21:07:54  <andythenorth>
21:07:57  <FLHerne> And short straight canals between them
21:08:05  <andythenorth> ^^ that has the second roster in
21:08:13  <andythenorth> if you want to use both rosters...tough
21:08:23  <andythenorth> unless you decompile and change grfid

21:08:48  * FLHerne looks
21:08:58  <andythenorth> it’s a param...
21:09:30  <NGC3982> Parmesan?
21:09:51  <FLHerne> Ooh hey, Danube barges :-)
21:10:06  <FLHerne> That ferry looks a bit odd
21:10:18  <FLHerne> Maybe the real ones look odd too :P
21:10:26  <andythenorth> there is no real one :P
21:10:39  <andythenorth> it’s made out of the ferry from fish, cut in half
21:10:45  <andythenorth> stuck the rear halves together
21:11:00  <andythenorth> if I look hard enough on I’ll find a real one though
21:11:06  <FLHerne> That might explain the oddlookingness
21:11:14  <andythenorth> everything seems to have a prototype
21:11:38  <FLHerne> Loading ramps or something might look good
21:11:44  <andythenorth> anyway, that’s today’s cookie
21:11:48  <andythenorth> you are the exclusive recipient
21:12:13  <FLHerne> Well, thanks :-)
21:12:13  <andythenorth> there will be up to 10 rosters maybe in the end
21:12:17  <andythenorth> unless we get bored
21:12:20  <andythenorth> choose one
21:12:34  * andythenorth is bored of trying to make one perfect roster, there is no perfect here
21:12:53  <FLHerne> Or find the relevant switches, and hack them to get everything at once :P
21:13:23  <andythenorth> that too
21:13:39  <andythenorth> or make a grf that enables them (possible I think)
21:14:00  <andythenorth> the IDs are published in the docs
21:14:22  <andythenorth>
21:14:39  <andythenorth> turning them on / off is probably only a climate switch maybe
21:14:40  <andythenorth> dunno
21:15:20  <andythenorth> yeah, just climate
21:15:28  <FLHerne> The problem with ships is that all ships of one type look identical
21:15:40  <andythenorth> yes
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21:15:46  <FLHerne> I can make different-looking trains just by mixing and matching vehicles
21:15:54  <andythenorth> ships is problem, no?
21:16:01  <FLHerne> And trams/buses are always swarming about behind buildings
21:16:04  <andythenorth> randomising them is a crapload of work, and doesn’t look that good
21:16:18  <andythenorth> I could randomise the color to 2cc / 1cc trivially, but that’s dumb
21:16:30  <andythenorth> they don’t even have cargo :P
21:16:34  <andythenorth> also much work
21:16:48  * FLHerne would use randomly recoloured ships, straight off :D
21:16:57  <FLHerne> Might be confusing in MP though
21:17:00  <andythenorth> yes
21:17:29  <andythenorth> I’d consider it though, recolouring is easy at compile time with pixa
21:17:40  <andythenorth> iron horse already does it for some vehicles
21:18:04  <andythenorth> and all the code is there for random sprites
21:18:39  <andythenorth> also bedtime is
21:18:45  <andythenorth> bye
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21:45:42  <AndroUser> Hello I want do set up a build environment what do I need on a Windows machine?
21:47:50  <glx>
21:47:54  <planetmaker> AndroUser: check the wiki ^
21:47:54  <glx> should work
21:47:56  <Wolf01> 'nighty night
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21:50:19  <AndroUser> Ok is there any more documentation like java doc?
21:51:49  *** LSky` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:55:52  <glx> it's not java
21:57:20  <AndroUser> That's why I wrote "like"
21:57:48  <glx> but there is doxygen stuff at
22:01:08  <AndroUser> Thanks
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22:50:02  <FLHerne> That reminds me - is there any higher-level documentation than just each individual class/template?
22:51:33  <FLHerne> I was hacking at the pathfinder a while ago, I couldn't find any info on what exactly YAPF does as an integrated whole
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23:47:02  <avdg> FLHerne: does this help?
23:48:06  <LordAro> no one really understands YAPF very well, it's really badly documented
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23:48:35  <LordAro> it probably wouldn't have been included in trunk nowadays :)
23:49:06  <avdg> documentation :p
23:50:17  <avdg> meh, imo you have to understand the global concept of a pathfinder, then understand the use case in openttd
23:50:59  <LordAro> and then understand the YAPF implementation, which is a whole different story :)
23:51:08  <avdg> yeah
23:51:18  <avdg> it takes a look from different perspectives
23:51:42  <avdg> ofc, undocumented code makes it even harder to understand :/
23:51:57  <avdg> but meh, at least its a way to get close
23:52:19  <avdg> (and meh, don't take my advice literally, everybody is different, you know ;-)
23:53:18  <FLHerne> avdg: Not a huge amount, tbh
23:54:11  <FLHerne> I know pretty much what it does for the outside world, and from that page and the thread I can see kind of how it's supposed to work in theory
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23:55:29  <FLHerne> But there's no detailed description of the algorithm, and no description at all of how the umpteen nested inherited templates make whatever that is happen
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23:56:48  <avdg> I guess the maintainers had to fight with the code
23:57:22  <FLHerne> avdg: The problem is that it's obviously sacrificed simplicity (of implementation at least) to performance ages ago
23:58:00  <avdg> I guess thats a very good point
23:58:13  <avdg> there were a lot of complains about performances
23:58:20  <FLHerne> I wonder if older svn revisions have a version of it before it was optimised beyond uninformed comprehension?
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23:59:22  <avdg>
23:59:23  <avdg> ?
23:59:33  <avdg> just change the numbers :P

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