Log for #openttd on 30th August 2014:
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00:15:56  <nander> Hi
00:16:13  <nander> Is there a mod / newgrf which makes towns a lot bigger in area?
00:16:24  <nander> It could be really interesting in terms of gameplay
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05:02:30  <andythenorth> o/
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05:26:13  <Sylf> seems to be down to me
05:36:52  <andythenorth>
05:40:34  <Sylf> I used to check :P basically the same thing
05:40:44  <Sylf> But it must have been some kind of short hiccup
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06:16:43  * andythenorth tries to guard against overflowing ship speed
06:16:48  <andythenorth> not as easy as I thought :P
06:19:51  <andythenorth> eddi will know
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07:02:19  <LSky`> morning
07:04:01  <andythenorth> LSky`: I might have made your life harder for RedFISH
07:04:04  <andythenorth> :P
07:06:15  <LSky`> I saw
07:06:22  <LSky`> I going to dive into the rosters soon
07:06:46  <LSky`> what i have yet to figure out is where you assign sound/animations to the different ship classes
07:07:15  <LSky`> itd be a bit weird if I add some sailing ships, onyl to find out they have steam animations
07:17:34  <andythenorth> sound is just sound effect
07:17:37  <andythenorth> it’s a property
07:17:43  * andythenorth looks
07:18:14  <andythenorth> oh
07:18:21  <andythenorth> it’s a ‘special’ piece of python :)
07:18:37  <andythenorth> in ship_properties.pynml
07:18:41  <andythenorth> sound_effect:                   ${('SOUND_SHIP_HORN','SOUND_FERRY_HORN')[ship.default_cargo=='PASS']};
07:18:45  <andythenorth> it’s a hack
07:18:59  <andythenorth> and will have odd effects with sailing ships
07:19:44  <andythenorth> it could be done properly in future, I didn’t pay much attention to sounds yet
07:19:49  <andythenorth> much / any /s
07:24:05  <andythenorth> animation stuff is in the ‘smoke2’ branch
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07:45:06  <abculatter_2> Is there a way to set a station to no longer accept/demand a specific cargo?
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07:52:43  <andythenorth> no
07:53:22  <abculatter_2> wtb that feature
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08:04:27  <Supercheese> As do I...
08:04:38  <Supercheese> think there was A Patch for That™
08:05:24  <Supercheese>
08:05:35  <andythenorth> what’s it needed for?
08:05:44  <andythenorth> it doesn’t help you win a cargo goal
08:05:47  * andythenorth has become singular
08:06:06  <Supercheese> It's basically an anti-derp feature
08:06:24  * andythenorth doesn’t like it
08:06:30  <Supercheese> Sometimes you accidentally have a train load at a drop-off station
08:06:35  <andythenorth> your playful sandbox tinkering games are all now banned
08:06:36  <Supercheese> causing cargo to pile up there
08:06:49  <andythenorth> you must only play objective-orientated, target driven games with a single outcome
08:06:56  <andythenorth> no more playtime
08:07:21  <Supercheese> But the game is in C++, isn't that already object-oriented...? :P
08:07:46  <andythenorth> you must do useful work
08:07:52  <andythenorth> sandbox games have no purpose
08:08:01  <andythenorth> outcomes must be achieved
08:08:06  <andythenorth> targets met
08:08:12  <andythenorth> winning
08:08:46  <andythenorth> efficiency to the fore!
08:08:51  <andythenorth> beat the clock!
08:09:11  * andythenorth considers deleting CHIPS
08:09:18  <andythenorth> station grfs have no purpose
08:11:32  <andythenorth> bah
08:11:38  <andythenorth> I am being a one-person channel again
08:11:40  <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
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08:41:04  <Wolf01> hello
08:41:18  <LSky`> hi
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08:54:48  <Alberth> o/
08:56:49  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
09:00:26  <Wolf01> o/
09:02:32  <andythenorth> costs costs costs
09:04:24  <andythenorth> also
09:04:28  <andythenorth> need a bear
09:04:45  <andythenorth> ship speed must be =< 79 mph
09:05:03  <andythenorth> and actual speed is calculated in multiple places
09:05:16  <andythenorth> which makes it quite easy to accidentally include a bug
09:05:25  <andythenorth> so I was going to cap it to max(speed, 79)
09:06:06  <andythenorth> should I warn of that during compile?  Sometimes it’s valid to hit the cap, and the warnings will just become noise
09:08:45  <Alberth> can't you check how often you hit the boundary, or what each speed calculation result is?
09:09:57  <Alberth> if so you can verify all results are the same, or that you hit the boundary some expected number of times
09:10:47  <andythenorth> I could put a flag on ships that are expected to hit the boundary
09:11:02  <andythenorth> but it’s more ‘stuff’ and will probably get copied-pasted to unwanted places :)
09:11:13  <andythenorth> silent cap seems best
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09:11:39  <andythenorth> we _could_ patch openttd :P
09:12:07  <Alberth> yeah, ships should fly too!
09:13:08  <andythenorth> the original limit looks related to RL max speed of hovercraft
09:13:36  <andythenorth> Squid contains a ‘cheating speeds’ parameter :P
09:13:44  <andythenorth> which exceeds the limit for hovercraft
09:14:09  <Alberth> the real world is buggy
09:14:31  <Alberth> people trust those numbers waay too much
09:15:04  * andythenorth wonders if the simulations have fewer bugs than RL
09:15:59  <andythenorth> Alberth: still playing your game? o_O
09:16:28  <Alberth> not today yet, but yesterday, yes
09:16:50  <Alberth> getting to the point where I can just spend as much money as I want :)
09:17:08  <andythenorth> got any ships?
09:17:47  <Alberth> not yet, but some idiots put forests at an island that needs to be transported :p
09:18:16  <Alberth> don't have RV either, but perhaps it's too early :)
09:18:57  <Alberth> although it's weird having trains at 128km/h, and no RVs :)
09:19:46  <andythenorth> what year?
09:20:53  <Alberth> 1908, have no ships either
09:21:17  <andythenorth> sounds odd
09:21:21  <andythenorth> trams from 1870
09:21:24  <andythenorth> ships from 1870
09:22:06  <__ln__> ships are built of wood and the wood is still in the forest on the island. chicken and egg.
09:22:14  <Alberth> oh, you're completely correct, I am too sleepy
09:23:18  * andythenorth small panic over
09:24:50  <Alberth>,1908-01-12.sav
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09:31:45  <andythenorth> Pikkaphone bob
09:32:19  <Pikkaphone> si madam
09:32:35  <Pikkaphone> what does?
09:32:58  <andythenorth> yes
09:33:00  <andythenorth> it does
09:34:09  <Pikkaphone> splendid
09:34:46  <andythenorth> and yours?
09:35:03  <Pikkaphone> such is life
09:35:21  <Pikkaphone> as a man with a tin pot on his head once said
09:35:53  <andythenorth> anything new on the blag?
09:36:04  <andythenorth> I could look, but I don’t want to wear down the shoe leather
09:36:18  <Pikkaphone> nothing new, no
09:36:53  <Pikkaphone> should try and get a ship done tonight, I suppose
09:37:26  <andythenorth> Pikkaphone: has got a squid game nearby?
09:37:35  <andythenorth> I want someone to tell me which costs is wrong
09:37:39  <andythenorth> some must be
09:37:45  <andythenorth> stands to reason
09:37:47  <Pikkaphone> I am a phone
09:38:20  <Pikkaphone> so I have nothing nearby, unfortunately
09:38:40  <andythenorth> sad times
09:38:44  <Pikkaphone> I can have a look when I get home though
09:38:50  <andythenorth> I suspect copy-paste amongst other naughties
09:39:08  <Pikkaphone> are variable running costs not a thing?
09:39:54  <andythenorth> not
09:39:59  <andythenorth> could be, but cba
09:40:08  <andythenorth> you think they’re worth it?
09:40:08  <Pikkaphone> hmm
09:40:19  <Pikkaphone> for trains I think so
09:40:33  <Pikkaphone> for ships, I don't know
09:40:43  <andythenorth> ships go faster unloaded
09:40:47  <andythenorth> little silly thing
09:40:55  <andythenorth> not realisms much
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09:41:13  <Pikkaphone> hmmmm
09:41:37  <andythenorth> is quak
09:41:53  <Pikkaphone> I don't know how realism variable running costs are for ships, either
09:42:08  <frosch123> hola
09:42:17  <Pikkaphone> planes yes, trains and rvs maybe
09:42:32  <Pikkaphone> bonjour monsieur
09:43:12  <Alberth> hihi
09:43:44  <LordAro> o/
09:44:03  <andythenorth> ships is costing more when loading
09:44:08  <andythenorth> due to steve and dore
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09:44:26  <Pikkaphone> yes, both of them
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09:44:46  <Pikkaphone> although if it's waiting for cargo
09:44:59  <andythenorth> riding at anchor?
09:45:01  <Pikkaphone> Steve might as well stay in the pub
09:45:33  <andythenorth> is variables a thing I should add?
09:45:38  <andythenorth> I could be talked into it
09:45:46  <andythenorth> but I don’t miss it in my games
09:45:57  <Pikkaphone> I don't know
09:46:39  <Pikkaphone> they're more useful if you have higher running costs
09:47:14  <Pikkaphone> so it's probably a complete rebalance rather than just adding a variablity
09:52:33  * andythenorth should play a game
09:52:35  <andythenorth> for testings
09:53:19  <Alberth> build me a few boats?
09:54:28  * andythenorth has to go shopping :P
09:54:31  <andythenorth> for ice lollies
09:54:32  <andythenorth> apparently
09:54:55  <kalenz_> Hi, I have a source code related question: Is there a rationale for disabling the builtins functions of the script language?
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09:58:57  <frosch123> that depends on the functions. scripts shall not lock-up, break or crash ottd, they shall not cause security issues, they shall work on all platforms
10:02:35  <andythenorth> it’s been a while since last MP game
10:02:40  <andythenorth> maybe we should play one
10:02:56  <frosch123> true, sounds like an idea :)
10:03:05  <Alberth> +1
10:03:18  <Pikkaphone> I will crash, but I'll still play
10:03:21  <frosch123> not sure whether we manage to setup a server without pm though
10:04:12  <kalenz_> frosch123: ok, I was wondering for functions such as compilestring and {get,set}{root,const}table which do not seem like breaking ottd or security issues
10:04:15  <kalenz_> :)
10:05:16  <andythenorth> I am not free until tonight
10:05:26  <andythenorth> it usually takes that long to set up a game
10:06:11  <andythenorth> can haz new GS? o_O
10:06:34  <Pikkaphone> better write one
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10:09:48  <andythenorth> :(
10:09:58  <andythenorth> squirrely
10:10:07  <andythenorth> also idea
10:10:12  <andythenorth> don’t have one
10:10:18  * andythenorth -> shops
10:10:20  <andythenorth> not ships
10:10:22  <andythenorth> biab
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10:10:24  <Pikkaphone> what's a good goal?
10:10:54  <Pikkaphone> that's where I get stuck
10:12:36  <frosch123> challening to play a different play style
10:12:39  <frosch123> +g
10:13:12  <frosch123> transporting stuff in unusual ways
10:13:18  <Alberth> deliver stuff by ship?
10:13:27  <Alberth> not sure you can actually check that :(
10:13:57  <frosch123> i forgot whether the cdist functions have already been committed
10:14:27  <frosch123> but there is a certain chance to check vehicles, whether they carry cargo, where they are from, where they are going to, and what cdist thinks about that
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11:34:30  <andythenorth> what ho GS
11:36:15  <Pikka> ho ho, GS
11:37:18  <Pikka> someone's having fun with fireworks out there
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11:40:17  <planetmaker> hi hi
11:40:48  <andythenorth> ho ho GS <- it tells jokes on random intervals?
11:42:10  <Pikka> yes
11:42:17  <Pikka> also look, here's planetmaker to set up the server
11:42:47  <andythenorth> I should release some squid
11:43:19  <planetmaker> no guarantee how stable the connection is from the train, Pikka ;)
11:43:43  <Pikka> andythenorth, I'm looking at your costs ;)
11:43:59  <Pikka> a couple of anomnomnomalies spotted...
11:44:54  <andythenorth> oh indeed
11:45:04  <andythenorth> can I fix?
11:49:04  <Pikka>
11:49:10  <Pikka> here's an airing cupboard, have fun
11:50:41  <andythenorth> ta
11:50:44  <andythenorth> I shall fix
11:50:51  <andythenorth> some were fixed already, but I got board
11:59:22  <andythenorth> ships can only do 79mph
11:59:23  <andythenorth> shamefule
12:04:32  <Alberth> @calc 79*1.6
12:04:32  <DorpsGek> Alberth: 126.4
12:05:30  <Alberth> I don't think you'd want to fly faster than 126km/h over the water, it's not safe :)
12:06:18  <andythenorth> hrm
12:06:34  <andythenorth> I could make the big paddle steamer more expensive
12:06:41  <andythenorth> but then you can’t afford it in early game
12:09:09  <LordAro> Alberth, but what if you want to make some of these boats? :p
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12:10:16  <andythenorth> you don’t
12:10:16  <Alberth> we'll talk again when there is a real pax service with those boats :p
12:11:17  <Alberth> game doesn't care about weird money-spending hobbies of wealthy tycoons :p
12:11:49  <LordAro> :p
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12:46:54  <andythenorth> ships fixed
12:46:56  <andythenorth> RC 7 time
12:53:48  <Pikka> splendid
12:54:00  <Pikka> so where's the server? openttdcoop?
12:54:17  <andythenorth> where’s the GS? o-O
12:54:20  * andythenorth should invent one
12:54:24  <Pikka> what's the goal
12:54:27  <Pikka> ?
13:02:38  <LordAro> "Have fun"
13:02:55  <Pikka> wrong
13:03:13  <LordAro> dang
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13:07:52  * Pikka will do a new version of av9.8, we can test that too inna multiplayer
13:08:11  <andythenorth> Pikka: I have no imagination for goals :(  I can only think of cargo
13:08:15  <andythenorth> or connection goals
13:08:44  <andythenorth> or build an xyz thing in every town
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13:20:39  <frosch123> andythenorth: "no trains"? :p
13:20:55  <frosch123> only rv, tram, ship
13:21:00  <andythenorth> my four year old knows it as ‘the train game’
13:21:03  <andythenorth> btw
13:21:03  <frosch123> (no aircraft as well)
13:21:27  <andythenorth> frosch123: and a goal?
13:21:45  <andythenorth> you all hate RVs :P
13:22:02  <frosch123> i do not know the town gs good enough
13:22:05  <frosch123> there are too many
13:22:27  <frosch123> so, i guess ncg again :p
13:22:52  <LordAro> eGRVTS + TTRS = easy (and surprisingly fun) RV game
13:23:10  <andythenorth> frosch123: SV = best
13:23:15  <frosch123> i don't like eithe egrvts nor ttrs :p
13:23:21  <frosch123> ogfx+rv is way better
13:23:30  <frosch123> and about any town set is prettier than ttrs
13:23:37  <andythenorth> you can be appalled by how ‘alpha’ road hog is
13:23:45  <andythenorth> it needs a test
13:32:46  * andythenorth invents first past the post GS
13:32:49  <andythenorth> for multiplayer
13:32:58  <andythenorth> first company to achieve goals wins
13:33:10  <andythenorth> unfair if you have more players [shrug]
13:33:39  <andythenorth> goals are 3 random cargo challenges in a row, you get told the first one, then the second is revealed after completing first, etc
13:33:46  <andythenorth> messes with your ability to plan your network
13:34:15  <andythenorth> cargo challenges themselves are straightforward, just deliver x amount / year (or in total)
13:34:48  <Pikka> same cargo for all players?
13:34:52  <Pikka> head-to-head?
13:35:15  <andythenorth> maybe
13:35:38  <andythenorth> maybe has to be to a specific destination
13:36:00  <andythenorth> dunno
13:36:08  <andythenorth> don’t think GS is better for over-thinking it :)
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13:46:34  <andythenorth> Pikka: are you going render hover zellepins?
13:46:39  <andythenorth> the srn 4 is too small
13:46:44  <andythenorth> and the other thing I have is all wrong
13:47:06  <andythenorth> 70 pax, but no cabins :P
13:47:28  <Pikka> eventually
13:48:06  <andythenorth> the other thing is approximately this
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14:02:55  * Pikka things squiddyships are too cheap, overall :D
14:03:52  <Pikka> although not by much
14:11:59  <Pikka> there
14:12:15  <Pikka> new av9.8, now with rounder capacities
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14:12:30  <Pikka> 33% fewer helicopters and 100% fewer supersonics
14:13:22  <Pikka> but 33% more small aircraft, including 66% more turboprops.
14:15:26  <Pikka> ugh
14:15:32  <Pikka> I should put in the reduce-costs parameter too
14:16:15  <ccfreak2k> pikkachu
14:16:19  <ccfreak2k> I think I already made this joke.
14:18:36  <Pikka> choo choo
14:32:57  <Pikka> town has noise concerns about airport
14:33:18  <Pikka> build airport further out from town, build bus and mail road connections to town centre, job done
14:33:24  <Pikka> cargodist is alright
14:40:24  <Alberth> town seems a little too concerned at times :)
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14:57:15  <Pikka> andythenorth, so the sprites for the Pegwell SuperZeppelin aren't final?
14:57:25  <Pikka> lots of pixels and funnywake :)
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15:43:59  <andythenorth> Pikka: more expensive ships?
15:48:46  <andythenorth> Alberth: town airport controls are boring :(
15:48:52  <andythenorth> imo
15:49:26  <Alberth> I have that problem with air thingies in general
15:53:30  <andythenorth> there’s probably a config I could edit somewhere :P
15:53:50  <andythenorth> trying to ‘fix’ air routes in core game is boring
15:55:18  <Pikka> smaller aircraft are nice
15:55:24  <Pikka> smaller towns are nice
15:55:32  <Pikka> av9.8 is nice
15:56:11  <andythenorth> it’s a serious mistake
15:56:14  <andythenorth> AV9
15:56:19  <andythenorth> allegedly
15:56:23  <andythenorth> I like it
15:56:35  <andythenorth> easy choices
15:56:37  <andythenorth> “plane"
15:56:39  <andythenorth> “big plane"
15:56:46  <andythenorth> “helichop chop"
15:57:48  <andythenorth> Pikka: penguin hoverzellepin is just ogfx sprites
15:57:57  <andythenorth> not really right
15:59:53  <Pikka> hmm
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16:01:19  <andythenorth> also I should expensiver the ships?
16:01:34  <Pikka> dunno
16:01:39  <Pikka> cop out and make it a parameter
16:06:34  <andythenorth> nah
16:06:38  <andythenorth> game has that already isn’t it
16:06:54  <andythenorth> when I looked today, I thought they are bit cheap
16:07:01  <andythenorth> maybe run cost should go up
16:07:13  <andythenorth> I didn’t test in a game though
16:07:25  <andythenorth> if buy cost is too high, it’s too boring in early game
16:14:31  <Pikka> who builds ships first thing though?
16:22:18  <andythenorth> andythenorth does
16:22:26  <Wolf01> me too
16:31:09  <andythenorth> variable buy costs? o_O
16:31:13  <andythenorth> first one is cheap

16:31:15  <andythenorth> like drugs
16:35:56  <Alberth> wouldn't the current year be much easier than?
16:36:00  <Alberth> *then
16:36:55  <andythenorth> or length of game
16:36:57  <andythenorth> dunno
16:37:03  <andythenorth> I’m going to leave them alone for now
16:37:05  <andythenorth> test game? o_O
16:37:10  <andythenorth> where is server?
16:37:12  <Alberth> sounds like a good idea
16:37:35  <Alberth> make them relatively correct against each other
16:37:57  <Alberth> perhaps also against some other newgrfs, that's bonus
16:38:09  <Alberth> and otherwise people will use a basecost grf
16:38:42  <frosch123> yeah, triple running cost when attaching wagons of different grf
16:39:13  <andythenorth> ho chuggles
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16:44:08  <keoz> any way for a gamescript to know what GRF's are used ?
16:46:25  <frosch123> nope
16:46:57  <keoz> k :)
16:47:07  <andythenorth> “capture the castle” GS?
16:47:16  <andythenorth> try and win as many towns as possible
16:47:22  <andythenorth> each town has a win criteria
16:48:05  <Pikka> splendid
16:48:20  <andythenorth> play against other people, or against the clock
16:48:29  <planetmaker> that actually is a great idea indeed
16:48:34  <andythenorth> do a scenario version, run a league table
16:48:41  <andythenorth> wish we could change vehicle sets on scenarios :P
16:48:50  <Pikka> nope
16:48:53  <Pikka> "can't" be done D;
16:49:05  <Pikka> so where's the server? openttdcoop?
16:49:24  <andythenorth> anyone made a save?
16:49:32  <andythenorth> 1.4.2 game?
16:49:35  <planetmaker> could try setting up one after I filled my fridge. That's something which needs doing about now :)
16:49:37  <andythenorth> where’s the channel?
16:49:41  <Pikka> eh, 1.4.2
16:49:46  <andythenorth> I have to bath two children and make them sleep
16:49:49  <Pikka> why not "latest"
16:49:49  <andythenorth> takes ~hours
16:49:50  <Pikka> ?
16:50:01  <frosch123> we want nightly for steam
16:50:04  <planetmaker> 'lastest' after nightly is run soonish
16:50:09  <Pikka> yes
16:50:38  <planetmaker> we would join #openttdcoop.nightly for that. But need to go for 30 minutes now... be back then and will see what I can get running
16:51:11  <frosch123> so, what gs?
16:51:59  <andythenorth> SV of course
16:52:10  <andythenorth> which FIRS?
16:52:13  <andythenorth> or not FIRS
16:52:22  <Pikka> heart of darkness of course
16:52:29  <andythenorth> where is Bob Industries Renewal
16:52:31  <andythenorth> ?
16:52:32  <frosch123> i am thinking about: train limit=0, sea-level=70%, yeti, av9, squid, ogfx+rv, heqs
16:52:38  <Pikka> or yeti
16:52:50  <andythenorth> if yeti, we’d all better download now...
16:53:04  * andythenorth does that
16:53:05  <frosch123> using yeti has the advantage that andy can contentrate on squid, instead of firs :p
16:53:16  <Pikka> we should trains though
16:53:29  <frosch123> ok, but still sea level 70
16:53:38  <frosch123> with short bridges, so trains are useless :p
16:53:38  <andythenorth> horsey
16:53:45  <andythenorth> slow expensive bridges grf
16:53:50  <Pikka> it's boring without any trains
16:53:55  <Pikka> horsey indeed
16:54:00  <andythenorth> termite
16:54:06  <Pikka> horse + 10cc? more to download :D
16:54:06  <frosch123> what's horsey?
16:54:18  <frosch123> ah, irony?
16:54:23  <frosch123> irony horsey?
16:54:24  <andythenorth> I should make one with only narrow gauge + metro
16:54:28  <andythenorth> that would screw with things
16:54:55  <Pikka> termite is what irish people use to weld rails together
16:54:58  <frosch123> lets' try to de-mess my settings
16:55:11  <frosch123> they always end up with silly test scenarios
16:56:56  <Pikka> did V453000 update yeti, or can still nothing transport uranium?
16:56:59  <Pikka> except NUTS
16:57:43  <andythenorth> can Horsey not?
16:57:53  <Pikka> does it have a "hazardous" wagon?
16:58:23  <andythenorth> yeti is so pretty
16:58:29  <andythenorth> just needs the rest of the game redrawing to suit
16:59:10  <andythenorth> hmm
16:59:17  <andythenorth> horsey not transporting hazardous
16:59:22  <andythenorth> I can fix that and do another RC
16:59:30  <Pikka> you shouldn't have to
16:59:32  <andythenorth> also why steel twice in yeti?
16:59:37  <frosch123> is it an issue if one cargo type is missing?
17:00:13  <andythenorth> also squid and such not transporting yeti
17:00:13  <Pikka> yeti should define one of the standard cargo classes for uranium, so that vehicle sets without special hazardous wagons can still transport it
17:00:18  <andythenorth> well
17:00:19  <andythenorth> yes
17:00:31  <andythenorth> I do have a list of refits that is supposed to be all classes
17:00:40  <andythenorth> but I left out hazardous because it’s stupid on its own
17:00:45  <frosch123> no transports for yeti would be an issue :)
17:00:53  <frosch123> so, no yeti?
17:01:01  <frosch123> just ogfx+industries?
17:01:14  <Pikka> tai! no, not tai.
17:01:21  <andythenorth> tai has industries?
17:02:16  <Pikka> old tai
17:02:31  <andythenorth> sounds like a cologne
17:03:15  <Pikka> maybe
17:04:11  <Pikka> hmm
17:04:25  <Pikka> av9.8 would be able to transport yeti uranium
17:04:27  <frosch123> hmm, sv won't work with islands
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17:04:37  <frosch123> you need a proper target area
17:04:57  <andythenorth> I’ve done it with islands
17:05:03  <Pikka> big islands
17:05:05  <andythenorth> gets a bit intense on ships
17:05:13  <andythenorth> it’s actually easier with ships, less contention
17:05:24  <andythenorth> My last game was 8 industries or so
17:05:45  <andythenorth> also I am bored of seeing FIRS so ANother industry grf is good
17:05:52  <Pikka> make sure you set the cost reduction parameter in av9 :D
17:07:35  <andythenorth> also 90’ curves on or ships are borked
17:08:17  <kalenz_> frosch123: btw, my question earlier was because of this :
17:08:24  <kalenz_> So good thing builtins are deactivated
17:13:52  <frosch123> kalenz_: official squirrel development is about version 3
17:14:07  <frosch123> we use version 2 with quite a number of custom fixes meanwhile
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17:22:49  <andythenorth> V453000: so are you fixing YETI uranium class? o_O Or I should fix my grfs?
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17:25:25  <frosch123> termite disabled due to fatal error using invalid id
17:25:37  <frosch123> what's that about?
17:25:41  <frosch123> should i read the readme?
17:30:35  <Alberth> maybe it only works together with iron horse?
17:30:43  <frosch123> i am using iron horse
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17:34:48  <frosch123> <- that's the type of map and settings i have in mind
17:35:07  <frosch123> but it needs sorting out why termite is broken, or we need to remove it
17:35:10  <andythenorth> frosch123: dunno what the termite error is :O
17:35:54  <andythenorth> working for me in 1.4.2
17:35:58  <andythenorth> using termite 0.3
17:37:45  <frosch123> well, check the save :)
17:40:09  <andythenorth> frosch123: works for me
17:40:20  * andythenorth wonders if base set issue
17:40:50  <frosch123> base set issue? :p that would be a bug as well :)
17:41:29  * andythenorth adds missing grfs
17:41:33  <andythenorth> it’s a conflict with something
17:42:20  <andythenorth> frosch123: it’s a conflict with FRISS
17:42:31  <andythenorth> moving termite up disables FRISS
17:42:47  <andythenorth> VAST objects not on bananas btw
17:43:00  <frosch123> really, how did i get them then?
17:44:04  <andythenorth> coop pack?
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26763 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2014-08-30 17:45:19 UTC)
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:25  <DorpsGek> korean - 41 changes by telk5093
17:46:17  <frosch123> <- that's my suggestion then
17:47:38  <andythenorth> no hog :)
17:47:50  <andythenorth> oh well, it’s bad to look at right now anyway
17:48:10  <frosch123> ah, forgot that :)
17:48:14  <frosch123> does it need adding?
17:49:55  <andythenorth> up to you
17:49:59  <andythenorth> it’s playable, but ugly
17:50:26  <frosch123> ok, then i choose to not regenerate more maps :)
17:50:32  <frosch123> needed several tries to get some islands
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17:57:43  <Alberth> quite a few islands even :)
18:00:01  <keoz> V453000: is it intended that all the houses' cargo production/acceptance appears as completely disabled when running YETI ?
18:01:25  <Sylf> I'm thinking using yeti in  city growth game isn't the best idea
18:01:48  <keoz> Yeah that's what I was thinking :)
18:01:53  <Sylf> all yeti cargoes are not stuff accepted by houses etc
18:04:04  <keoz> Well it is possible if considering Workers Yards as the equivalent of houses, in regard to growth triggering.
18:04:33  *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58_
18:04:59  <Alberth> or cargo to industries of the town in general?
18:05:42  <keoz> That's already technically integrated. Category 4.
18:06:16  <Alberth> ok, just making a suggestion
18:06:23  <keoz> No problem :)
18:07:06  <keoz> I were more thinking in merging workers/food/goods in only one cat.
18:07:27  <keoz> s/goods/building/materials/
18:08:02  <keoz> Anyway. Time for a beer.
18:08:09  <Sylf> yeti doesn't have "goods", so you know
18:08:49  <Alberth> yeti doesn't have beer, does it?
18:09:01  <Sylf> it should!
18:09:12  <Sylf> beer makes better workers
18:09:15  <keoz> V453000: there's an important feature request here.
18:12:08  <keoz> Alberth: actually i'm thinking that you're right about cargo to industries in general, since in any case, it doesn't matter whether cargos are delivered to houses or industries.
18:12:31  <keoz> Hence, workers arriving to a town industry are the same as pax arriving to towns.
18:12:57  <Alberth> yeti does have grain and fruit :)
18:14:00  <keoz> I count all cargos in any case in my script. Raw materials are requested by cities only when becoming really big.
18:14:24  <keoz> The idea is that you have a full growth only if you have some local industry
18:14:57  <Alberth> k
18:15:21  <Alberth> I only played a growth script a looong time ago
18:15:27  * andythenorth never has
18:15:33  <Alberth> nowadays there are sooo many :)
18:15:33  <keoz> There are a lot now
18:15:42  <andythenorth> it’s a growth industry
18:15:48  <keoz> :)
18:15:52  <keoz> indeed
18:15:57  <andythenorth> what challenges for capture the castle GS?
18:16:04  <andythenorth> - deliver x amount of cargo
18:16:11  <andythenorth> - pick up x amount of cargo?
18:16:13  <keoz> deliver fish in mountains
18:16:17  <andythenorth> - build industries?
18:16:22  <andythenorth> - build other stuff?
18:16:23  <Alberth> transport pax
18:16:25  <andythenorth> - average rating?
18:16:34  <planetmaker> - grow to size X
18:16:45  <planetmaker> - have at least X industries of type Y
18:16:54  <planetmaker> (serviced with > 50% or so)
18:17:05  <Sylf> yeah, usually they're for those kind of challenges set by the scripts, useful for the young players of today who can't set their own goals
18:17:07  <Alberth> move x pax / month
18:17:29  <planetmaker> - pickup pax / mail by each transport mode (rail/air/road/trains)
18:17:39  <keoz> Sylf: you're speaking about growth scripts ?
18:18:01  <Sylf> actually, any goal scripts
18:18:27  <keoz> 'cause a script doesn't necessarily has goals :)
18:18:28  <Alberth> Sylf: one of the fun parts is that you don't know what you have to do
18:18:47  <andythenorth> Sylf: expand the argument
18:18:49  <Alberth> it forces you to so things you normally never do
18:19:05  <Alberth> *do
18:19:10  <andythenorth> this is the argument that people are losing the ability to be exploratory and playful and originally creative?
18:19:10  <Pikka> andy: I'm working on it. :P
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18:19:26  <Pikka> @ what challenges for capture the castle GS?
18:20:42  <Alberth> fund an industry
18:21:03  <Sylf> andythenorth, pretty much.  people losing their own creativity to set their own unique goals
18:22:04  <andythenorth> you see, I want to agree, because it’s fashionable to do so
18:22:08  <andythenorth> but I kind of don't
18:22:42  <andythenorth> even though I see plenty of evidence in the twenty-something’s I employ that they are a bit lost with simple win conditions
18:22:59  <Pikka> better than wimple sin conditions
18:23:02  <andythenorth> but I have played 10 years of ottd, and frankly the sandbox thing gets fricking old
18:23:09  <andythenorth> wimple sin is a different GS
18:23:14  <andythenorth> we’d need new sprites
18:23:17  <Pikka> we would
18:23:31  <andythenorth> * a bit lost without simple win conditions
18:23:44  <Pikka> and I dunno, kids these days and their minecraft
18:23:50  <Pikka> they're doing alright in a sandbox
18:24:15  <andythenorth> kids these days and their Tiny Tower, Pocket Rocket Trains, How to Train Your Dragon, Disco Zoo, Dragons, more Dragons
18:24:18  <Alberth> generalizing is always useful to prove either side :)
18:24:26  <andythenorth> they’re all goal objected and ‘level up’ and crap
18:24:35  <andythenorth> but my four year old just ignores all that and sandboxes
18:24:42  <andythenorth> he doesn’t even make rational economic decisions :(
18:24:48  <Pikka> shameful
18:24:51  <andythenorth> I know
18:24:59  <Sylf> :)  That's the power of 4 year old
18:25:00  <andythenorth> he’ll buy the least optimised thing
18:25:03  <andythenorth> inside I’m screaming
18:25:08  <andythenorth> and outside I’m screaming
18:25:09  <Sylf> somehow, they lose that creativity between that and 14
18:25:42  <Alberth> you have to work on keeping it
18:25:43  <Pikka> the youf of today
18:26:51  <Pikka> I think most people have always responded better to wimple sin conditions
18:27:18  <andythenorth> apparently there’s less of that about
18:27:18  <Alberth> instant positive feedback is always good
18:27:21  <andythenorth> due to social media
18:27:22  <Pikka> you see it in games more nowadays because you have more games being made by slick marketing types
18:27:33  <Pikka> rather than spotty herberts in their attic
18:27:34  <andythenorth> most iOS games are bollocks from what I can see
18:27:36  <Pikka> like chris sawyer
18:27:37  <andythenorth> shockingly poor
18:28:02  <Alberth> it sells, and everybody plays it for a week, and then moves on to the next game
18:28:04  <andythenorth> also, sometimes working all this crap out is fun:
18:28:21  <andythenorth> but mostly I’d rather have instructions and build something from a Lego box
18:28:39  <andythenorth> due to erm
18:28:53  <andythenorth> I have enough creative personal goal setting all day long
18:28:57  <Pikka> ehh
18:28:58  <andythenorth> plus my wife has goals for me
18:29:03  <andythenorth> so GS for me
18:29:16  <Sylf> :D
18:29:21  <Pikka> not to mention lego is a really, really crap material for building complex mechanical machines
18:29:25  <Pikka> far too much give and flex
18:29:29  <andythenorth> part of the challenge...
18:29:30  <Pikka> :)
18:29:41  <Pikka> my brother has a good model of the story bridge
18:29:43  <andythenorth> try build a crawler that doesn’t tear itself apart
18:29:49  <Pikka> but it doesn't do anything except look like the story bridge
18:30:10  <andythenorth> oh yes, this
18:32:19  <Pikka> you broke it
18:32:29  <planetmaker> so... did we have a savegame?
18:32:39  <planetmaker> r26762
18:32:51  <Pikka> frosch123 had one
18:33:11  <Alberth> (19:46:17) frosch123: <- that's my suggestion then
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18:42:20  <andythenorth> chief playtester
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18:42:54  <andythenorth> I should finish this one, it has been around for about 6 years :P
18:43:48  <Pikka> nice trucks, too
18:44:50  <andythenorth> have to compress scale isn’t it
18:44:53  <andythenorth> not too much realisms
18:45:02  <Pikka> lego is fun
18:45:03  <Pikka> but
18:45:13  <Pikka> cg is less dusty
18:45:23  <Pikka> not to mention less expensive
18:45:33  <andythenorth> also
18:45:34  <andythenorth> yes
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19:57:39  <FUZxxl> Hello!
19:58:21  <FUZxxl> I'd like to know if there is an efficient design for a change between right-hand traffic and left-hand traffic.
19:58:44  <FUZxxl> I need this because I made a construction mistake before and now a rather large line comes out in the wrong orientation.
19:59:33  <planetmaker> FUZxxl, just build a bridge for one direction over the other direction?
19:59:43  <planetmaker> and if you want it efficient, double that bridge
20:00:05  <FUZxxl> Yeah, that's a bit like what I did.
20:00:18  <FUZxxl> I made a diagonal rail for one side and a tunnel below it for the other side.
20:00:32  <FUZxxl> I suck at junctions.
20:00:50  <Alberth> just practice more :)
20:01:04  <FUZxxl> thank you
20:05:25  <Alberth> don't worry too much about it, I have been playing openttd for 7 years, and still build junctions mostly at random until it works :)
20:06:12  <Alberth> of course it doesn't help I don't terraform, so every junction is unique just due to landscape :)
20:10:00  <planetmaker> on the contrary. That helps a lot, I think
20:10:13  <planetmaker> As only that way it teaches you to make the best of what's possible :)
20:10:31  <planetmaker> building identical on flat surfaces is boring after doing 3 times the same thing :)
20:10:41  <planetmaker> (but you agree there, for sure :) )
20:21:23  <FUZxxl> true.
20:21:50  <FUZxxl> And here I am, stuck with OpenTTD 1.3.3 because of Debian.
20:22:46  <planetmaker> no, you aren't
20:22:53  <planetmaker>
20:23:25  <planetmaker> either get that debian package and install it. Or simply get the generic archive and unzip it into a dir of your choice
20:23:57  <FUZxxl> I have a slight dislike for introducing foreign packages into my system. They tend to cause trouble.
20:24:22  <planetmaker> well. The debian maintainer of that package is OpenTTD developer ;)
20:24:31  <FUZxxl> hehe
20:24:41  <planetmaker> or just use the generic download, unzip and enjoy. OpenTTD needs no install
20:25:09  <FUZxxl> true.
20:35:06  <FUZxxl> btw, the map in the game menu
20:35:10  <FUZxxl> is it auto-generated?
20:37:17  <Alberth> no, it's hand made, we have a competition to make a new map
20:37:28  <FUZxxl> ah, I see.
20:37:35  <FUZxxl> How many maps are there?
20:37:59  <planetmaker> only one. But millions of random ones
20:38:11  <FUZxxl> ah, I see.
20:38:23  <planetmaker> <-- that was the competition, though, if you're interested
20:38:33  <FUZxxl> And I guess the game selects a different part of the map every time it launches?
20:38:41  <planetmaker> no, always the same
20:39:00  <planetmaker> the upper left corner is fixed to the upper left corner of your window
20:39:02  <FUZxxl> huch?
20:39:04  <FUZxxl> okay...
20:39:22  <planetmaker> you're talking about the title screen, yes?
20:39:38  <planetmaker> and 1.3.x has different than 1.4.x
20:39:43  <planetmaker> we change every year
20:39:46  <FUZxxl> ah, I see.
20:39:50  <FUZxxl> That makes sense.
20:40:09  <planetmaker> or round about. Depends whether I remember in a timely manner :P
20:40:55  <FUZxxl> Your game rocks.
20:42:31  <FUZxxl> But I suck at playing it.
20:42:45  <FUZxxl> 30 years in, I try to expand to new towns.
20:42:54  <FUZxxl> But some of them won't let me build stations.
20:43:01  <planetmaker> depends on how you define 'success'. A game is successful, if you enjoy your time playing it :)
20:43:16  <planetmaker> and yeah, towns remember when you cut down trees
20:43:22  <planetmaker> even when it's for tracks or stations
20:45:09  <FUZxxl> :-)
20:45:30  <FUZxxl> I usually go there and plant a bunch of new trees but that's often quite cumbersome.
20:45:49  <FUZxxl> BTW, does plating trees where trees already exist raise your approval raitings?
20:46:47  <planetmaker> it doesn't.
20:47:03  <planetmaker> tactics which works: first delete all trees in a towns vicinity. Then plant them all anew :P
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20:47:45  * Alberth usually moves to a different town that wants my services :)
20:48:09  <Alberth> but I concentrate on industries mostly
20:48:39  <glx> planetmaker: yeah your rating can't drop under the lower level anyway :)
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20:53:42  <FUZxxl> planetmaker: yepp, that works.
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21:11:50  <planetmaker> Supercheese, is thus considered resolved?
21:13:21  <Supercheese> has the string been changed? It's a really minor thing, but it should be "beginning" rather than "begin"
21:13:55  <Supercheese> My initial suggestion was made late at night, frosch rightly corrected my first suggestion
21:14:31  <frosch123> noone committed :)
21:14:43  <Supercheese> Yeah I see no changes as of yet
21:15:05  <Supercheese> it is, of course, hardly a game-breaking issue :P
21:15:16  <planetmaker> I read your comment as 'oh, frosch is right'
21:15:44  <Supercheese> Yes, "frosch is right, it should be changed to "front" or "beginning", but a change is still required"
21:16:02  <Supercheese> "...wrapping around at the begin"
21:16:06  <Supercheese> is clearly a typo
21:17:35  <frosch123> it's programmer's english :)
21:17:52  <frosch123> containers always have a begni() and a end() method :)
21:21:42  <Rubidium> why would it be "beginning" and "end", and thus not "ending"?
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21:23:25  <Rubidium> otherwise... we could change begin with rend to be even more "right"
21:23:45  <__ln__> hmm, so "begin" is not a noun at all..? container function naming is evil then. blame bjarne?
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21:41:12  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: functions are (usually) actions, so they should be a verb?
21:42:02  <Eddi|zuHause> loads of functions have the name "do_x"
21:42:29  <Eddi|zuHause> also it's "sort" and not "sorting"
21:44:15  <Eddi|zuHause> what to do with GreyFurryThingThatMakesMiauEvenThoughItJustGotFood?
21:49:42  <glx> open the door ?
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21:57:53  <andythenorth> good night
21:58:02  <frosch123> night
21:58:03  <Alberth> night andy
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