Log for #openttd on 20th September 2014:
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00:00:25  <SpComb> svn: bash: command not found
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00:27:20  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26854 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2014-09-20 00:27:14 UTC)
00:27:21  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Don't override computed minimal size with static minimal size, instead only increase it.
00:27:31  <SpComb> peter1138 go to sleep
00:27:47  <peter1138> +widget :S
00:27:50  <peter1138> oh well
00:27:54  <peter1138> SpComb, why
00:28:40  <peter1138> still got 30 minutes of this album to go
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01:47:59  <Eddi|zuHause> oh... and of course i run into a signalling issue immediately :p
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04:32:02  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, level crossings are weird...
04:32:19  <Eddi|zuHause> can construct them one way, but not the other...
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04:52:37  <NGC3982> Morning.
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05:02:46  <NGC3982> Is there any good way to measure the network health of my public server?
05:03:12  <NGC3982> I can't seem to see anything wrong with the network i'm on, but i have problems with maintaining connection to my own server.
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07:17:32  <andythenorth> o/
07:19:59  <Pikka> D:
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08:31:08  * NGC3982 loves Kalles Kaviar.
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08:55:41  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26855 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2014-09-20 08:55:35 UTC)
08:55:42  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Render vertical scrollbars the same as horizontal scrollbars, with sprites instead of text.
08:56:19  <planetmaker> \o/
08:57:00  <peter1138> that is actually to make bigger sprites work, but it also makes opengfx scrollbars not look like arse at the same time
08:57:28  <planetmaker> yeah, I know :)
08:57:54  <planetmaker> especially biggui had been a sad thing with those
08:58:50  <peter1138> Well, I'm testing like this...
08:59:05  <peter1138> (that scrollbar is pre-that commit)
08:59:21  <planetmaker> :)
08:59:36  <planetmaker> nice, so those are auto-scaled gui sprites?
08:59:38  <peter1138> X button needs to be a sprite instead of text, too
08:59:43  <planetmaker> yup
09:00:00  <planetmaker> also the drop-down button. But that's the same sprite as vertical scrollbar, I think?
09:00:10  <peter1138> here's a trick, they're autoscaled anyway, just only the non-zoomed ones are used
09:00:20  <peter1138> in src/zoom_type.h ... ZOOM_LVL_GUI =
09:00:27  <peter1138> change that to 2X instead of 4X and you get a double size ui
09:00:42  <michi_cc> peter1138: (from many moons ago)
09:00:48  <peter1138> planetmaker, yes, that's the same. i'm going to sort that too
09:01:00  <peter1138> michi_cc, :)
09:01:16  <peter1138> these patches i'm doing are also ancient :)
09:01:24  <planetmaker> peter1138, so grfs can then define the other zooms and bit depths for sprites, too, yes?
09:01:38  <planetmaker> so that automatically the correctly-zoomed is chosen?
09:01:41  <peter1138> planetmaker, yes
09:01:44  <planetmaker> sweet
09:01:47  <michi_cc> :p
09:01:56  <peter1138> planetmaker, but it looks like i don't need to write it cos michi_cc's done it
09:02:01  <planetmaker> :D
09:02:34  <planetmaker> better continue with it and 'steal' it before there's bit rot again festering on those patches
09:02:42  <peter1138> although it's from 2012, so may need updating
09:02:49  <peter1138> hrh
09:03:09  <peter1138> michi_cc, we at least think the same way :)
09:03:21  <peter1138> planetmaker, this is one of the reasons why i don't like the big buttons in zbase
09:03:27  <peter1138> it doesn't... make sense!
09:04:10  <planetmaker> peter1138, I fully agree
09:04:56  <planetmaker> re-visiting zbase GUI sprites is definitely on my agenda. But I miss good sprites for the other zoom levels other than 2x (or is it 4x?)
09:05:46  <peter1138> it has 2x sprites (in the 4x slot)
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09:08:29  <peter1138> i was actually surprised it worked so well
09:09:23  <planetmaker> most GUI sprites scaled already. But not all... And then zbase doesn't have 2x sprites everywhere and seems to miss some sprites altogether
09:09:31  <peter1138> yeah
09:09:36  <planetmaker> (which then are replaced by its underlaying 8bpp OpenGFX sprites)
09:09:49  <peter1138> i mean i'm surprised this hack to ZOOM_LVL_GUI worked :)
09:09:56  <planetmaker> he :)
09:10:25  <peter1138> i actually remember having it in my mind when i added the extra zoom levels but then did nothing with it, never even tested it
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09:18:29  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26856 trunk/src/company_gui.cpp (2014-09-20 09:18:22 UTC)
09:18:30  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Ensure company face widgets can fit company face.
09:23:43  <fonsinchen> Does anyone have a save game with lots of "refit to available cargo" and other complicated order constructs? I'd like to test a patch and am too lazy to construct the test case myself ;)
09:25:18  <V453000> only refit to specific cargo in depot
09:25:21  * Rubidium doesn't
09:26:16  <planetmaker> hm, not that I know a savegame with much of that. I mostly refit to specific cargoe
09:29:22  <peter1138> i've never used a refit order
09:30:55  <peter1138> Any objections to ?
09:31:34  <peter1138> makes the expand/collapse buttons, and the frames, match other windows.
09:32:28  <peter1138> Also allows the button height to match the resize button height
09:33:57  <peter1138> Hmm, I'm sure I fixed my webserver to serve diffs as plaintext :S
09:35:10  <peter1138> Hmm, similar issue with the map window, although that doesn't get the outer frames wrong.
09:36:45  <Rubidium> me likey patchey
09:39:53  <planetmaker> yeah, +1. I really needed to search to find the collaps and expand buttons. I guess I never used them ;)
09:41:31  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26857 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2014-09-20 09:41:25 UTC)
09:41:32  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6110]: Reserve cargo after refitting and only if necessary.
09:41:47  <peter1138> Argh, my mouse is playing up :(
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09:56:10  <Wolf01> hi hi
09:57:25  <Alberth> moin
09:57:42  <planetmaker> hi ho
09:58:11  <LordAro> o/
09:58:28  <V453000> what says if an industry dies or not?
09:58:38  <Alberth> you do
09:59:05  <V453000> but which part of the code
09:59:30  <V453000> my industries seem to have started dying for no reason while being well serviced
09:59:34  <V453000> am wondering what could have changed
09:59:50  <keoz> V453000: industry_cmd.cpp
10:00:02  <V453000> wat
10:00:12  <V453000> I mean newgrf
10:00:25  <V453000> (:
10:00:44  <keoz> in FIRS there's a piece of code defining ndustry closure
10:01:43  <keoz> in src/templates/check_secondary_closure.pnml
10:02:56  <keoz> you might have a look. FIRS only closes secondary industries though. For myself, i recoded some parts of FIRS to have a general closure mechanism. If you want, I can give it to you.
10:03:29  <V453000> I see
10:03:45  <V453000> I think I would do it a bit differently but thats fine
10:03:57  <V453000> where do I actually put the switch?
10:04:16  <Alberth> planetmaker: default tooltip popup time is a little short isn't it? Also, it broke my right button setting :(
10:05:03  <keoz> V453000: couldn't say. I just was able to modify already parts of FIRS but that's all.
10:05:03  <Alberth> V453000: your industry nml code page is very good
10:05:13  <V453000> :d thanks :D
10:05:20  <planetmaker> Alberth, how did it break it? Just set it anew (it's a new setting)
10:05:25  <V453000> yeah, thanks keoz :)
10:05:28  <peter1138> That reminds me... as oil rigs supposed to "produce" passengers?
10:05:51  <peter1138> Have passengers, yes of course.
10:06:12  <Alberth> planetmaker: I had my config to right button, and now it started popping up almost immediately all the time
10:06:20  <peter1138> "Passenger production at X oil rig increases 100%" feels a bit... odd.
10:06:33  <Alberth> perhaps you ignored the right button setting?
10:06:33  <planetmaker> Alberth, but not sure it's too short...
10:07:15  <planetmaker> Alberth, the old setting value prior to the changeset is ignored. Just set it anew. Or did you after that change?
10:08:46  <keoz> Alberth: if you remember our last discussion: any chance you could reload your savegame where you didn't see the storybook, with the last revision on my script ? I changed some things, the problem might be solved.
10:08:53  <planetmaker> in case of doubt set the hover time manually to 0 milliseconds
10:09:42  <Alberth> planetmaker: length of the interval is quite debatable, let's leave that. No I didn't change anything, it started popping up by itself, which seems to correspond with your patch ignoring the previous setting
10:09:54  <Rubidium> hover time 0 == right click
10:10:09  <Rubidium> was so in the past and still is so
10:10:31  <Alberth> Rubidium: yeah, I changed it already, but why wasn't that copied from the previous version?
10:10:41  <planetmaker> Alberth, if I had re-used the old setting, it would have had a hover time of 1 millisecond - even shorter :)
10:10:49  <planetmaker> I wanted a better default
10:10:59  <planetmaker> for all those who have already an openttd.cfg
10:11:01  <Rubidium> because a new setting was made (and because converting settings in the cfg is a PITA because you go back AND forth between versions as dev)
10:12:09  <Alberth> planetmaker: copying rmb setting and ignoring default length (which I agree was too small) are two different things I think
10:12:43  <Alberth> but ok, it's just a single value
10:13:51  <Alberth> keoz: euhm, right, do you happen to know the filename?
10:13:54  <peter1138> Didn't I suggest 500ms as a sensible default?
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10:14:10  <peter1138> Yeah, that feels more normal to me.
10:14:45  <Alberth> peter1138: for new users it can be useful, they can also change the default if they want
10:15:05  <peter1138> Yes exactly.
10:15:21  <peter1138> 250ms is a bit short as you say.
10:15:52  <planetmaker> peter1138, Alberth everyone suggests another length...
10:16:05  <peter1138> planetmaker, I always suggested 500ms :p
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10:16:19  <peter1138> And that is at least a default that many systems use.
10:16:39  <planetmaker> I've no passion really about the default value. If you feel that 500 is a better one, be my guest and change it :)
10:16:40  <Alberth> I am not a good judge of interval length, I turn these things off very quickly, as they get in the way, hiding stuff I want to see
10:17:01  <keoz> Alberth: Lunnpool_Bridge_Transport_1881-04-29.sav and the new revision is available here:
10:17:14  <keoz> If you have not the savegame anymore, I still have it.
10:17:15  <planetmaker> I chose it on the short end, so that new users see it and find it. Users who know it, know how to adjust the length. That was my reasoning
10:17:27  <planetmaker> I've seen more than one request why there aren't tooltips...
10:17:48  <Alberth> keoz: thanks. I do have a policy of not changing scripts etc mid-game, but I'll make an exception :)
10:18:05  <Alberth> planetmaker: 2 seconds is too long, I think we all agree on that :)
10:18:30  <keoz> Alberth: thank you :)
10:20:28  <peter1138> planetmaker, at 250ms, I get tooltips appearing a lot, as it's near the interval where precise positioning happens for me. 500ms reduces that tooltip-spam massively
10:21:08  <peter1138> (and that's with big fonts and big buttons :))
10:21:19  <planetmaker> and if the majority here thinks the 250ms is too short... as said, I honestly don't mind. Lool, peter1138 :)
10:21:22  <peter1138> (Sure, I'm old!)
10:21:27  <planetmaker> pfft!
10:23:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26858 /trunk/src (settings_gui.cpp smallmap_gui.cpp) (2014-09-20 10:23:38 UTC)
10:23:46  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Rearrange smallmap filter and settings expand/collapse buttons to fix frame borders and allow buttons to fit height of resize button.
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10:55:33  <Alberth> keoz: seems to work
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10:58:43  <Alberth> you may want to put the precise version in some document, it's hard to find out what you're using exactly
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11:18:05  <keoz> thank you Alberth. Yes you're right, I'll search a way to do that?.
11:18:56  <Alberth> you may want to look how it's done in a newgrf project
11:19:39  <Alberth> the makefile does some magic there with finding the revision, and inserting it in text
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11:33:00  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26859 trunk/src/town_gui.cpp (2014-09-20 11:32:54 UTC)
11:33:01  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6119]: Height computation of game script text in town GUI did not consider margins.
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11:57:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> uhm weird... my computer just froze...
11:57:45  <frosch123> mine did as well, then i killed grfcodec and pulled an update
11:58:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, like not even ctrl+alt+f1 or ctrl+alt+backspace worked
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12:00:31  <frosch123> renice the "wolfi" process
12:01:08  <peter1138> oops
12:01:14  <peter1138> just deafened myself loading up 1.4.3 :S
12:01:17  <peter1138> err
12:01:18  <peter1138> 1.4.2
12:01:20  <Pikka> pardon?
12:01:40  <Pikka> who plays (O)TTD with the sound on anyway?
12:01:45  <V453000> ^
12:01:53  <V453000> says the one who puts custom sounds in newgrfs XD
12:01:56  <frosch123> exactly
12:02:22  <Pikka> doesn't mean I want to listen to them :D
12:02:27  <V453000> :)
12:02:53  <frosch123> peter1138: you can disable various sound effects in advanced settings btw
12:02:56  <peter1138> i do have sounds on, but even if i didn't, i can't turn them off from the intro game
12:03:16  <V453000> peter1138: system sound :P
12:03:25  <frosch123> bu
12:03:26  <peter1138> and it's kind of awkward for new people too
12:03:31  <frosch123> but -s null -m null is the best anyway
12:03:38  <V453000> holy fuck sound effects setting
12:03:40  <V453000> didnt know about that
12:03:41  <V453000> nice :D
12:03:53  <V453000> news ticker can fuck off now
12:03:59  <frosch123> :p
12:04:00  <Pikka> if you turn the sounds effects down/off in a game, that stays put for the titlegame too, and on future loading...
12:04:06  <V453000> except I am probably never going to use sounds again
12:04:28  <frosch123> V453000: i think there was a specific setting for the ticker sound since 0.3
12:04:41  <V453000> :0
12:05:37  <frosch123> but nice that you found it :) maybe the settings are arranged better today after all
12:05:52  <V453000> no I wrote sound in the filter XD
12:05:58  <V453000> didnt even try to find it
12:06:15  <peter1138> yeah that filter is a godsend
12:06:19  <frosch123> well, the setting was in the news settings window before :p
12:06:26  <V453000> but really, where else to find it than interface
12:06:45  <V453000> well you could disable them but they would still make sounds?
12:06:50  <V453000> no
12:06:55  <V453000> you would disable news entirely
12:07:00  <V453000> then they would obviously not do the sound
12:07:10  <V453000> if I understand it right, now you can see the news but they make no sound
12:08:14  <frosch123> <- see the screenshot
12:08:29  <frosch123> it was there, if you found it :)
12:08:40  <V453000> O_O
12:08:41  <V453000> :D
12:08:51  <V453000> if you found is apparently 0 for me
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12:11:21  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26860 trunk/src/terraform_cmd.cpp (2014-09-20 12:11:15 UTC)
12:11:22  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: improve worst case performance of terraforming (O(n^2) -> O(n log n)) and let memory usage scale to the amount of tiles affected instead of allocating memory for the worst case scenario (patch by ic111)
12:12:13  <Eddi|zuHause> the ticker is bad anyway, it blocks real news from popping up
12:12:52  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium breaking patches again?
12:13:01  <Rubidium> yup
12:13:59  <Eddi|zuHause> if you're done with mhl, i'm sure the new map features provides a decent source for breaking patches :p
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12:25:43  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26861 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2014-09-20 12:25:36 UTC)
12:25:44  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Include height of dropdown image in dropdown widget. Draw vertically centred image in dropdown button.
12:27:15  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26862 trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp (2014-09-20 12:27:09 UTC)
12:27:16  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Don't shrink widget size in new game window.
12:31:40  <Wolf01> peter1138, as you are playing with the UI, do you think a setting to double the size of any widget could work (a sort of "enable touch screen / big gui" setting)?
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12:35:08  <peter1138> Wolf01, michi_cc has a patch for that...
12:36:44  <peter1138> Hmm, the tiny cargo sprites are kinda big at 2x :p
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13:06:18  <peter1138> errr
13:06:19  <peter1138> silly
13:06:28  <peter1138> making patches, testing, ended up playing a savegame instead :S
13:07:19  <Wolf01> at least you test it :P
13:08:48  <Pikka>
13:08:53  <Pikka> @ V453000 et al
13:09:20  <Pikka> "34,854"?
13:09:39  <V453000> interesting
13:11:19  * andythenorth_ out doing trains again
13:11:27  <Pikka> fun times
13:11:39  * Pikka in doing trains
13:11:44  <Pikka> and possibly hoverbunnies
13:12:09  <andythenorth_> Standing in a queue for balloons for twenty minutes
13:12:13  <V453000> does it even mean amount of cargo?
13:12:15  <V453000> idk about subsidies
13:12:22  <andythenorth_> Yak shaving
13:12:24  <Pikka> I don't think so
13:14:49  <andythenorth_> String issues
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13:18:53  <peter1138> You've got a string code in a string that shouldn't have it
13:19:07  <Pikka> oh, those string issues
13:19:12  <Pikka> I thought he was talking about balloons
13:24:33  <V453000> (:
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13:56:40  <Wolf01> lol, 10 days/s with fast forward on the new pc
13:57:04  <Wolf01> steam trains look like maglev
13:57:07  <Rubidium> slow pc
13:57:32  <Rubidium> FS#6117 is complaining about month/second
14:00:54  <Wolf01> ok, got rid of those (now) useless cabeese
14:06:48  <peter1138> Damn that STR_SILVER_CROSS
14:07:17  <Rubidium> is it exported to NewGRFs?
14:07:30  <peter1138> ?
14:07:49  <Rubidium> if not, then you can easily just refer to the sprite and remove the string code of it, right?
14:08:17  <peter1138> it's got a colour remap, which works because it's text
14:08:23  <peter1138> complete with a shadow
14:08:43  <peter1138> so to draw the sprite directly means i'd need to set up a remap, one for black and one for silver
14:09:02  <peter1138> not impossible but slightly more of a pain than just switching to drawsprite
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14:25:08  <frosch123> it's just used in the newspaper?
14:25:40  <frosch123> make it black instead? :p
14:27:00  <peter1138> yes, just there. on a white background, no less!
14:35:17  <Eddi|zuHause> lmao, the people tilt on a hig slope :p
14:35:23  <Eddi|zuHause> *high
14:35:34  <Eddi|zuHause> or better "steep"
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14:59:06  <peter1138> hmm, turns out an audio cable works better when... it's plugged in
14:59:13  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause?
14:59:45  <Eddi|zuHause> ?
14:59:51  <peter1138> slope?
14:59:51  <Eddi|zuHause> in train fever
14:59:54  <peter1138> ah
15:00:02  <Pikka> drain fewer
15:00:06  <Pikka> is it a great game or what?
15:00:30  <Eddi|zuHause> it's sort of alright. the graphics are amazing, the logic is a bit lacking, and the UI is a bit fiddly at times
15:01:09  <Eddi|zuHause> and one of the music titles sounds liáž±e a mashup of TTD music :p
15:10:54  <Pikka> hmm, mashups of TTD music
15:11:29  * Pikka wants the new soundtrack from the mobile Transport Tycoon.
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15:21:24  <peter1138> hmm, guess i need to sort out the settings window
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15:26:07  <Supercheese> If you have the .apk for the new transport tycoon you can just extract the music from it. The quality is kinda eh, but it's there
15:29:51  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... it's sort of impossible to doubletrack a diagonal bridge...
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15:30:16  <frosch123> what is diagonal?
15:30:21  <frosch123> isn't it all freeform?
15:31:06  <Eddi|zuHause> angled compared to the river
15:31:33  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26863 /trunk/src (11 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-20 15:31:26 UTC)
15:31:34  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: move a number of Vehicle* functions into the Vehicle class
15:31:38  <Eddi|zuHause> no matter which side you start on, at some point it complains that it can't terraform the river, because on the other side it started the bridge too late
15:32:47  <frosch123> can't you define the start manually?
15:33:02  <frosch123> the bridge has to start somewhat away from the river
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15:37:18  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- the white area is where it automatically builds a dam instead of a bridge, this cannot be influenced manually.
15:37:49  <Eddi|zuHause> and the second track tries to make a dam up to that point, but fails because it would cover the river
15:39:11  <Eddi|zuHause> and if i try to build the other track first, the problem is symmetric on the other side
15:43:33  <Rubidium> just single track the bridge ;)
15:43:36  <peter1138> hmm, maybe depot windows should just use ZOOM_LVL_4X instead of ZOOM_LVL_GUI
15:45:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that mounds fun on a main track :p
15:45:38  <Rubidium> but... it's realistic ;)
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15:46:16  <Rubidium> we got a bit of 4 wide track, then a 2 track wide bridge and after that back to 4 wide... yay
15:46:22  <Wolf01> couldn't you divide the tracks near the river and build 2 bridges slightly more distant from each other?
15:46:34  <Eddi|zuHause> like a highway that stops, gets narrow, makes a detour around a field, and then comes back to being a highway :p
15:46:50  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26864 /trunk (14 files in 4 dirs) (2014-09-20 15:46:44 UTC)
15:46:51  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: bring a bit more OO into the disaster vehicles
15:47:00  <peter1138> Oooo!
15:47:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: yeah. i'm trying to do that, but it's tricky because it snaps to being double track easily
15:47:35  <Eddi|zuHause> and can't have narrow curve radius because of speed limit
15:47:46  <Pikka> Supercheese, no apples or rooted androids, unfortunately.
15:47:49  <Wolf01> and if you start from the bridges and then connect them to the tracks?
15:48:06  <Supercheese> Pikka: Well you could always, y'know...
15:49:04  <Pikka> hanging out for a high-quality soundtrack, the bits on soundcloud are good. :)
15:54:33  <Pikka> and could I?
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15:55:48  <Supercheese> ah yes, Soundcloud stuffs were quite excellent
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16:05:03  <peter1138> how... do i get this separation lark to work? :S
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16:42:39  <peter1138> gfx_func.h:#define FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL (GetCharacterHeight(FS_NORMAL))
16:42:41  <peter1138> yikes :p
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17:36:08  <andythenorth> o/
17:40:08  <peter1138> \ \o
17:40:19  <Pikka> yarr
17:41:02  <Pikka> andythenorth, 16 ships
17:41:18  <Pikka> I did a reappraisal based on the fact that I now have these hoverzellepins
17:45:10  <andythenorth> is 16 more or less?
17:45:21  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26865 trunk/src/lang/welsh.txt (2014-09-20 17:45:14 UTC)
17:45:22  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> welsh - 11 changes by kazzie
17:45:45  <Pikka> more IDs, fewer boats. changing graphics is an etc etc.
17:46:04  <andythenorth> hoverzellepins are a bad feature
17:46:11  <andythenorth> but I think they’re inevitable
17:46:13  <Pikka> small ones are alright
17:46:30  <Pikka> SRN4s are a bad feature, but I might just be saying that to get out of modelling it :D
17:46:33  <andythenorth> ha
17:53:54  <V453000> nice models Pikka :)
17:54:06  <Supercheese> It's funny, the most recent 'zeppelin'-style airship currently in flight testing uses hovercraft-pads as landing gear
17:54:14  <Supercheese> so it is a hoverzeppelin zeppelin
17:54:24  <andythenorth> horse drawn
17:55:47  <andythenorth> we should fix the game for horses
17:56:07  <Pikka> just make the horses go 80 mph
17:56:09  <Pikka> fixed
17:56:12  <andythenorth> jet powered
17:56:14  <andythenorth> considered it
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17:57:19  <andythenorth>
17:57:35  <andythenorth> Pikka: will your horse-wagons be non-articulated?
17:57:39  <andythenorth> o_O
17:57:45  <Supercheese> (ignore the dumb music)
17:58:10  <Pikka> which horse-wagons, andythenorth?
17:58:21  <Pikka> the 80mph ones?
17:58:27  <andythenorth> yes
17:58:33  <Pikka> I don't see why not
17:58:55  <andythenorth> YOU MUST USE SEMIS
17:59:13  <Pikka> semi-tralier ships
17:59:42  <Pikka> so I look at these ferries
17:59:43  <Pikka>
18:00:13  <Pikka> and I think... nah.
18:00:41  <Alberth> shouldn't the jet and the horse swap places?
18:02:14  <andythenorth> I like the ugly blue ship
18:02:24  <andythenorth> but yeah
18:02:30  <andythenorth> also you’d have to load them with cars
18:02:31  <andythenorth> boring
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18:17:19  <andythenorth> such readme
18:18:40  <andythenorth> it’s kind of boring if the docs give too much info, right?
18:19:02  <Pikka> pertinent info, or random info?
18:19:43  <Pikka> it's better to have answer the question in the readme than be asked it 40 times, but then you have to ask whether the kind of person who can't figure these things out reads readmes anyway. :)
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18:19:52  <Pikka> *have answered
18:20:17  <Japa> Is there a way currently to import rivers and/or trees from an image?
18:20:34  <Pikka> I don't think so, sounds like a fun project though :D
18:20:54  <andythenorth> Pikka: stuff like stats of the vehicles
18:21:11  <andythenorth> intro date, yes.  Speed, capacity, power, not so much
18:21:21  <Pikka> fairly pointless I'd have thought, since they're all displayed in the game
18:21:27  <Pikka> intro date perhaps
18:23:49  <b_jonas> argh, only two squares in this oil rig actually accept oil
18:23:54  <b_jonas> um
18:23:56  <b_jonas> oil refinery
18:24:00  <b_jonas> I meant oil refinery
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18:33:23  <peter1138> That's normal
18:33:56  <V453000> Pikka: even if you write things everywhere, put there images, explain to people personally over and over again, there is still going to be vast majority who will either 1. ask you about it because they do not understand/know it, or 2. ask you about it because they read it and have questions about it
18:34:00  <V453000> there is no escape :D
18:34:42  <Alberth> you forgot "ask because they think it's faster and simpler than reading" :)
18:42:38  <b_jonas> gtfo, I'm a big oil company, I don't have to respect your stupid local rules, town!
18:42:57  <peter1138> No, you just transport it. Not quite the same.
18:45:08  <b_jonas> I need a water tunnel here
18:46:26  <b_jonas> I transport their passengers, but their town is not growing.
18:52:23  <b_jonas> wait, does an unsuccessful bribe really set the town rating to -50, which is enough to build a station? then I'll bribe
18:54:09  <b_jonas> hmm no
18:54:17  <b_jonas> it doesn't increase the rating
18:54:28  <b_jonas> still, it doesn't decrease it either, so I don't have much to lose
18:58:35  <Alberth> o/
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19:12:50  <Pikka> frosch123, andythenorth; so the plan is to eventually use effects for ship wakes, etc? :)
19:12:59  <andythenorth> it is? o_O
19:13:06  <Pikka> isn't it? :D
19:13:11  <Pikka> custom effect vehicles, and all that? :)
19:14:20  <Pikka> in any case, I'm not having any animated wakes or water effects in my set - the extra sprite sets needed would blow out the newgrf size massively. so if the ships are going to have "nice" wakes instead of just floating over the water, that will be the only way it could happen. :)
19:15:53  <frosch123> Pikka: almost, the goal is to have coloured smoke and nyan rainbows in nuts
19:16:05  <frosch123> (maybe V does not know about it yet, though)
19:16:43  <b_jonas> but how would you ensure the wake is always on water, not on land?
19:17:07  <Pikka> the boat generates it where the boat is
19:17:14  <Pikka> so assuming the boat is on water...
19:17:17  <frosch123> the same way as it is ensured that the ship is always on water
19:17:31  <frosch123> have you ever seen a ship on land in ttd? :p
19:17:42  <Pikka> frosch123, feature request for hovercraft
19:17:48  <frosch123> already done
19:18:11  <b_jonas> frosch123: yes, I've seen large ships partly overlapping land
19:18:23  <frosch123> b_jonas: fix your irony detector
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19:58:42  <andythenorth> Pikka: wondering if I can use that hoverzep for the 400pax version
19:58:53  <andythenorth> it’s hit max width for | views at current size
19:59:06  <Pikka> hoverzeps are wide, though...
19:59:14  <andythenorth> yup
19:59:29  <Pikka> I mean, you could use it for that if you wanted. Or I could do a bigger one and it can be "too wide" :)
19:59:36  <andythenorth> too wide clips the docks
19:59:40  <andythenorth> locks / docks /
19:59:44  <andythenorth> been there, done that :)
20:00:15  <andythenorth> does the render magic downscale more?
20:00:28  <Pikka> I thought one of your problems with the existing graphics was that it was too small? :)
20:00:43  * andythenorth looks
20:01:01  <andythenorth> so I have the ogfx sprite for the 400pax thing
20:01:04  <andythenorth> and that is too small
20:01:19  <andythenorth> it’s same width as the landing craft zep I drew
20:01:26  <Pikka> isn't it bigger than the new one? :D
20:01:33  <andythenorth> nah
20:01:56  <andythenorth> hang on
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20:02:50  <andythenorth>
20:03:10  <Pikka> hmm.. well, for the SRN4ish one, I was planning to make it pretty much a whole tile wide
20:03:16  <Pikka> so that's definitely going to clip stuff
20:03:24  <Pikka> might be worth it, though? :D
20:03:29  <andythenorth> yair, they stick out the side of locks
20:03:32  <andythenorth> up to you :)
20:03:34  <andythenorth> also depots
20:03:39  <Pikka> lol
20:03:51  <Pikka> well it's up to you, since I'd only be doing it for FISH
20:04:01  <Pikka> I'm sticking to small hovercraft only for mine :)
20:04:52  <andythenorth> he :)
20:04:58  <andythenorth> I’ll figure something out
20:05:07  <andythenorth> I’m not too bothered about SRN 4 being an SRN 4
20:05:10  <andythenorth> also, biab
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20:42:43  <b_jonas> wait, so more squares provide goods than accept oil?
20:42:45  <b_jonas> ooh
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20:44:57  <Supercheese> All industry tiles produce, while not all may accept
20:45:14  <Pikka> actually, no industry tiles produce
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20:45:18  <Pikka> the industry produces ;)
20:45:29  <Supercheese> "supply", then :P
20:51:53  <Supercheese> Uuuuugh, so many strings to translate
20:52:33  <Supercheese> although fewer than Wesnoth it seems...
20:54:49  <Rubidium> Supercheese: only 26 thousand
20:55:13  <Eddi|zuHause> over nine thousand?
20:56:35  <Supercheese> Wesnoth is crazy:
20:56:48  <Supercheese> 59023 strings or so it claims
20:57:22  <Rubidium> that's unfair
20:58:03  <Rubidium> it counts all equivalents of NewGRFs and (game) scripts as well
20:58:26  <Supercheese> yeah, no effort is being made to translate those it seems
20:59:05  <Rubidium> still about 11k for the first section
20:59:35  <Supercheese> Still, once I finish main OTTD I would like to tackle the stuff available on eints
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20:59:52  <Rubidium> oh... official core packages is only 4535
21:00:05  <Supercheese> 10689 strings in that upper section by my reckoning
21:00:58  <Rubidium> and only 53 languages
21:00:59  <frosch123> Rubidium: the first section also contains the "official" scenarios or so
21:01:02  <Supercheese> vs. 4103 for OTTD
21:01:16  <Rubidium> @calc 53*4535 - 61*4103
21:01:16  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: -9928
21:01:29  <frosch123> scenarios in ottd do not have enough text :p
21:01:35  <Eddi|zuHause> (steam:5353): LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-WARNING **: Trying to remove a child that doesn't believe we're it's parent. <-- that sounds creepy
21:01:37  <Rubidium> we got more strings in official packages! ;)
21:01:50  <Supercheese> also, its*
21:02:11  <Rubidium> yup.. definitely creepy that that kind of strings get through QA at steam
21:02:15  <Supercheese> not that that changes creepiness
21:03:23  * peter1138 grumbles at bunching up trains
21:03:54  <andythenorth>
21:04:32  <Pikka> splendid
21:05:17  <Pikka> andythenorth, I've got a car ferry srn4esque hoverzeppelin going here that's not much bigger, footprintwise, than the little one
21:05:24  <Pikka> just taller and bulkier
21:05:31  <andythenorth> is it sprites to see yet?
21:05:35  <Pikka> not yet
21:05:53  <andythenorth> sounds awesome
21:06:41  <Pikka>
21:07:24  <andythenorth> nice
21:09:13  <andythenorth> moar distorted proportions
21:09:26  <andythenorth> squid is still too realisms
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21:11:50  <andythenorth> also the \ views are as long as - views
21:11:54  <andythenorth> can’t be right
21:12:19  <Supercheese> must be left
21:12:31  <peter1138> shocking behaviour
21:13:27  <andythenorth> I am shocked
21:14:59  <Eddi|zuHause> SHOCKED!
21:15:11  * peter1138 removes 240v from andythenorth
21:15:42  <FLHerne> andythenorth: How about LARC-Vs, as used by Searles?
21:16:05  <FLHerne> They want to run a regular ferry service across the Wash with them from next year, apparently
21:16:06  <andythenorth> what does it do?
21:16:47  <FLHerne> Looks like a small ship/mid-sized boat with 4 wheels on. Can carry 3 cars or 30-odd pax
21:16:54  <FLHerne> Has a ramp on one end
21:17:39  <Pikka> 3 cars?
21:17:39  <FLHerne> Loads up at the promenade, trundles off down the beach, across and up the other side. Functionally equivalent to a really slow hovercraft
21:17:49  <Pikka> have to be pretty small cars...
21:18:35  <andythenorth> RC cars
21:19:06  <FLHerne> Pikka: I'm sure that was what I read in an article about the Skeggie trip
21:19:12  * FLHerne looks for it
21:19:26  <andythenorth> amphibious boat
21:19:29  <andythenorth> also avoid Skeg
21:19:43  <Pikka>
21:20:17  <Supercheese> It's rather small
21:20:30  <Pikka>
21:20:40  <Pikka> too small for TTD
21:20:54  <Pikka> too amphibious, too
21:20:58  <Supercheese> also impossible, yes that
21:21:21  <Supercheese> barring some extreme wizardry
21:24:09  <FLHerne> Hmm, do I have my models right? Those ones are smaller than the one I'm thinking of
21:24:18  <FLHerne> Which is a 60-seater, per their site
21:25:23  <FLHerne> Oh, apparently they only took one car, but think they could do 2 at a time for scheduled services
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21:34:45  <andythenorth>
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21:39:04  <FLHerne> Looking at LARC types, I think it's a pair of LARC-XVs that Searles has right now
21:39:20  <FLHerne> LX might be more use as a TTD type, though-
21:40:02  <FLHerne> And I assume they must be looking at one for the Skeggie run, because a LARC-XV just isn't big enough for their claimed plans
21:40:08  <Supercheese> But it'd be just another boat
21:40:22  <Supercheese> can't make it go on land
21:42:54  <FLHerne> That also goes for the hovercraft
21:45:40  <Supercheese> The hoverzeppelins have the advantage of being rather fast over water
21:45:47  <Supercheese> this LARC thingy, not so
21:48:16  <andythenorth> larcapin
21:48:38  <andythenorth> also bye
21:48:42  <andythenorth> tomorrow, Swindon
21:48:45  <andythenorth> what larks etc
21:48:51  <Pikka> bye also
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21:50:32  <FLHerne> Supercheese: LARCs have the advantage of being painfully slow on water, does that count?
21:54:33  <Supercheese> Does it have the LCARS user interface? :P
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22:16:27  <frosch123> night
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22:20:45  <Wolf01> 'night
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