Log for #openttd on 21st September 2014:
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00:00:33  <Eddi|zuHause> this feels like ECS... one traffic jam and all your production multipliers "go fluting"
00:01:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i used to make 2M per year, now i don't...
00:18:44  <Supercheese> sounds like a nasty infection of... train fever
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01:40:48  <Supercheese> No zeppelins in train fever eh
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05:19:01  <Supercheese> Hmm, how to translate "block signals"...
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05:55:27  <andythenorth> o/
05:58:54  <Rubidium> moin
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06:35:40  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26866 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 06:35:34 UTC)
06:35:41  <DorpsGek> -Change: make aircraft ascend/descend when they are too close to the ground or too far away (based on patch by ic111)
06:41:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26867 trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp (2014-09-21 06:41:11 UTC)
06:41:18  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26866): hopefully fix MSVC compile error
06:49:12  <andythenorth> unrealistic speeds? o_O
06:49:15  * andythenorth thinks yes
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07:07:58  * andythenorth has idea
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07:48:24  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26868 /trunk/src (tile_map.cpp tile_map.h) (2014-09-21 07:48:18 UTC)
07:48:25  <DorpsGek> -Add: methods for getting a (theoretical) slope and tile height of tiles outside of the map array (ic111)
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07:51:26  <Wolf01> hello
07:53:22  <Taede> mornin
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07:57:51  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26869 /trunk (9 files in 5 dirs) (2014-09-21 07:57:45 UTC)
07:57:52  <DorpsGek> -Add: support for an all black palette to prevent the need of having a black tile of all different slopes (ic111)
08:02:12  <peter1138> :)
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08:19:39  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26870 /trunk/src (viewport.cpp void_cmd.cpp) (2014-09-21 08:19:32 UTC)
08:19:40  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r15190): since freeform edges the 'tile height' at southern edge * 8 pixels just 'south' of the edge tile would not be drawn and would as a result not be refreshed causing artefacts to remain there. This adds a virtual slope to level 0 so it can be redrawn appropriately. Loosely based on patch by ic111
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08:32:44  <peter1138> hm
08:36:04  <Wolf01> o/
08:49:03  <Alberth> \o
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08:50:28  <planetmaker> moin
08:50:40  <Alberth> hi ho
09:11:34  <blargTest> Anyone got a good recommendation for TTD-tutorial?
09:11:55  <Alberth> the wiki?
09:12:10  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26871 trunk/src/highscore_gui.cpp (2014-09-21 09:12:04 UTC)
09:12:11  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Centre and draw arbitrary size highscore screen. Highscore text continues to be drawn with 640x480 dimensions.
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09:40:42  <frosch123> peter1138: i guess it is now easier to add a specific recolour sprite just for the newspaper X
09:43:09  <peter1138> silly costs, £16k to build a 3 tile bridge on corner water tiles, or £4k for a 7 tile monstrousity 1 level higher...
09:55:03  <peter1138> frosch123, easier how?
09:55:32  <frosch123> we now have a separate action 5 for ottd-insprite recolour sprites
09:55:47  <frosch123> s/insprite/inspired/
09:56:05  <peter1138> oh
09:56:14  <peter1138> well the remap is 2 bytes, heh
09:56:23  <peter1138> like the magic for fonts
09:57:30  <frosch123> anyway, every baseset has to add that recolour sprite, so it would be easier to add more now, all at one
09:58:51  <frosch123> unless we figure out how to make eddi code the always-load openttd.grf thingie :p
09:59:03  <frosch123> but likely the file would need splitting into essential and bonus stuff
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10:11:48  <keoz> Looks we're going to have more height level in trunk or I'm wrong ?
10:13:14  <frosch123> we are switching to free form building like train fever
10:13:40  <V453000> lol
10:13:52  <Wolf01> I won't believe that also if you tell me in klingon
10:14:38  <Rubidium> at least in OTTD you can build two bridges next to eachother over a diagonal river
10:15:01  <peter1138> :D
10:16:34  <Rubidium> furthermore, there are no problems with upgrading roads in OTTD
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10:20:38  <frosch123> what diagonal rivers?
10:20:53  <frosch123> but ok, you do not run into the issue of not being able to build the bridge
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10:21:09  <frosch123> ah, sorry, missed your second line
10:21:43  <frosch123> i am being out-trolled
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10:32:41  <V453000> cargo icons are always 10x10 or is there something or any case that differs?
10:33:58  <planetmaker> should be 10x10
10:34:40  <planetmaker> V453000, and indeed like suggested somewhere in tt-f you should make sure your document your cargo usage in yeti in the wiki's cargo page like ECS and FIRS do
10:34:53  <planetmaker> s/your/you
10:35:02  <V453000> yes
10:35:12  <V453000> how do I do that?
10:35:21  <planetmaker> by editing the wiki :P
10:35:29  <V453000> oh ttf login
10:36:12  <peter1138> 20x20 cargo icons are kinda massive
10:36:12  <planetmaker> dunno whether it needs a separate row like ECS+FIRS. But probably easiest approach
10:36:54  <V453000> need 3rd column? :D
10:37:11  <planetmaker>
10:37:28  * peter1138 ponders resurrecting the rgb company colours patch
10:37:32  <b_jonas> frosch123: because of foundations? yeah
10:37:55  <planetmaker> you want to use the cargo classes as in that table. Or define a new label for those where you don't. Usually
10:39:08  <V453000> so for example I got GRAI Grain and I give it CC_BULK and CC_COVERED
10:39:19  <planetmaker> in your grf, yes
10:39:23  <V453000> yes
10:39:50  <V453000> hm firs doesnt have GRAI? :d
10:39:59  <V453000> ah yeah from original
10:40:26  <planetmaker> yeah, use original, if possible, use new if existing, define completely new if none of above :)
10:40:46  <V453000> I do have originals mostly
10:40:47  <planetmaker> uranium probably is the latter category. And possibly dudes
10:40:54  <V453000> yeah
10:42:49  <planetmaker> dudes is like tourists. Just much more dumb
10:42:54  <planetmaker> :P
10:43:20  <planetmaker> though... if they take a camera to work...
10:46:28  <V453000> ok, any idea how to add a YETI column other than manually writing one extra | to each? :D
10:46:48  <planetmaker> nope. That's what it boils down to
10:46:48  <b_jonas> you're transporting Yetis?
10:47:21  <V453000> alright, dumb repetitive tasks I am good at :P
10:47:23  <V453000> yes b_jonas
10:51:27  <planetmaker> b_jonas, get yeti from online content. Make sure you got enough download speed :P
10:53:28  <V453000> duh just 115 MB or something like that :)
10:55:54  <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> alright, dumb repetitive tasks I am good at :P <-- make a script?
10:56:39  <Eddi|zuHause> probably a regexp suffices
10:56:49  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that's what he is not good at :p
10:56:54  <V453000> EXACTLY :D
10:57:31  <Eddi|zuHause> s/(|[^|]*){5}/|/
10:57:38  <frosch123> so, let's apply some ulimit, and see when nml runs out of memory
10:57:54  <Eddi|zuHause> or something like that
10:58:04  <frosch123> V453000: just think of scripts as wtf-smileys
10:58:35  <Eddi|zuHause> "for some it's a regexp, for others it's the longest smilie of the world" :p
10:58:51  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: making that would take me ages, I did what I needed to and seems to work somewhat :P
11:00:20  <frosch123> why does ulimit not have a proper --help message?
11:00:21  <Eddi|zuHause> it took like 10 seconds to write that. and half of that is handling the AltGr key
11:01:20  <peter1138> hmm, i suppose i should do michi_cc's patch
11:01:30  <peter1138> cos recompiling everything after changing ZOOM_LVL_GUI is a pain
11:03:33  <V453000> so what if my GRAI offers cc_bulk AND cc_covered? should I fill that somehow into the page?
11:03:38  <V453000>
11:03:42  <V453000> or should I just leave bulk there
11:03:54  <V453000> perhaps put in comments on the right?
11:05:21  <Eddi|zuHause> leave bulk there, and add the info about covered in the extra notes
11:06:16  <Eddi|zuHause> like FRUT
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11:11:09  <V453000> k
11:12:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26872 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 11:12:42 UTC)
11:12:49  <DorpsGek> -Change: give the disaster vehicles the same treatment as aircraft in r26866; make the ascend and descend if needed to cross high mountains (based on patch by ic111)
11:13:40  <V453000> hm, where do I find the IDs of classes?
11:13:54  <V453000> 0010 Bulk like e.g. what is hazardous
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11:14:02  <argoneus> Hello
11:14:12  <argoneus> I am trying to do passengers recently
11:14:17  <argoneus> and setting up train/aircraft networks
11:14:18  <Eddi|zuHause> click on the "cargo classes" link on the top of the table
11:14:31  <V453000> oh :D
11:14:33  <argoneus> but my buses never haul enough passengers
11:14:34  <V453000> thanks
11:14:38  <argoneus> I'm also using assymetric cargodist
11:14:42  <argoneus> and buses are just not enough
11:14:52  <argoneus> I have 1500 passengers waiting to be carried into a city with 6000 people
11:14:57  <argoneus> even though I have 40 buses in the city
11:15:03  <argoneus> anything I can do?
11:15:03  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26873 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 11:14:58 UTC)
11:15:04  <planetmaker> use more busses. Use trains. Use trams...
11:15:05  <DorpsGek> -Change: split type_height into a type and height array (ic111)
11:15:25  <argoneus> I use trams/busses
11:15:27  <argoneus> but there's never enough
11:15:36  <argoneus> and the busses eventually just go all together in one line
11:15:44  <argoneus> even if I timetable them, the spreading fucks up eventually
11:15:56  <keoz> argoneus: German Vehicle Set
11:16:12  <keoz> high capacity busses/trams: they are enough to handle this
11:16:24  <argoneus> oh
11:16:34  <argoneus> so with the vanilla road vehicles
11:16:41  <argoneus> I'm better off not using trams/busses?
11:16:44  <b_jonas> use trains
11:16:52  <argoneus> how do I use trains for inter-city
11:17:14  <keoz> I don't say you are off, I'm saying that German vehicles help a lot
11:17:38  <argoneus> like
11:17:39  <argoneus>
11:17:44  <argoneus> what am I supposed to do here? :<
11:17:54  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26874 trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp (2014-09-21 11:17:47 UTC)
11:17:55  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26872): hopefully fix MSVC compile error
11:18:13  <keoz> Timetable your bus networks
11:18:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26875 /trunk/src (saveload/afterload.cpp tile_map.h) (2014-09-21 11:18:10 UTC)
11:18:18  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: move TropicZone information from m6 to type
11:18:20  <keoz> that also helps
11:18:23  <planetmaker> argoneus, just use more busses :) Expand your bus stops so that more than two or four can load at the same time
11:18:36  <Eddi|zuHause> after you timetabled, increase the time at at least one station so it can make up for delays
11:19:02  <argoneus> how do you guys timetable an established network?
11:19:07  <argoneus> without using autofill
11:19:40  <argoneus> also
11:19:51  <argoneus> if one of my cities has train, airport and bus
11:19:54  <keoz> Send all vehicles in depot, Start only one vehicle, use autofill only to measure, take a screenshot of the autofilled timetable; reload the game saved fill the table
11:19:56  <argoneus> is it even possible to balance everything?
11:20:03  <argoneus> I started getting red lines everywhere
11:20:09  <argoneus> no matter how many busses i added
11:20:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26876 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 11:20:11 UTC)
11:20:18  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: move 'has bride above' data from m6 to type
11:20:28  <argoneus> also, one more thing
11:20:34  <argoneus> do you guys use more bus networks in one city
11:20:36  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26877 /trunk/docs (landscape.html landscape_grid.html) (2014-09-21 11:20:29 UTC)
11:20:36  <argoneus> or just one loop?
11:20:37  <DorpsGek> -Update: documentation about the map array
11:20:49  <keoz> Well, if the network is badly designed, you can add as many busses you want, they will just block each other and the throughput is the same
11:22:38  <argoneus> I was looking for people who've done this thing
11:22:43  <argoneus> but I couldn't find any pictures of "good" networks
11:22:49  <argoneus> all people ever post is train station designs
11:23:05  <argoneus> which is usually easy
11:23:10  <b_jonas> easy?
11:23:24  <argoneus> well
11:23:35  <argoneus> all you need to do is make sure trains incoming don't block trains outgoing and vice versa
11:23:39  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26878 /trunk/src (17 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 11:23:33 UTC)
11:23:39  <argoneus> and then you just increase the capacity
11:23:40  <DorpsGek> -Change: move m6 to TileExtended to keep Tile 8 bytes and thus better alignable
11:24:05  <argoneus> but for buses
11:24:11  <argoneus> with random road networks
11:24:17  <argoneus> it's hard to make a decent system
11:24:31  <argoneus> does anyone of you maybe have a screenshot of a well-established city?
11:24:57  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26879 /trunk/src (14 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 11:24:51 UTC)
11:24:58  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: remove most MayHaveBridgeAbove calls since the data is now always accessible
11:25:13  <b_jonas> dunno, look at savefiles on openttdcoop maybe, but I don't think they use buses often
11:25:49  <argoneus> is there a reason for that?
11:26:12  <b_jonas> trains have higher transport flux generally
11:26:40  <argoneus> but when you transport passengers
11:26:46  <argoneus> you need to have busses too, no?
11:26:54  <argoneus> you can't really build a train station in the middle of a city
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11:27:02  <argoneus> OH, I wanted to ask
11:27:05  <b_jonas> sure you can
11:27:08  <argoneus> if I put a bus station in a city
11:27:08  <keoz> argoneus:
11:27:11  <b_jonas> build it early
11:27:17  <b_jonas> and have the town grow around it
11:27:25  <argoneus> and control click the same station a little further away
11:27:30  <argoneus> will the one station get passengers from both areas?
11:27:38  <keoz> those are screenshots from a game where I finally achieved to have a quite fluid pax trafic
11:27:40  <argoneus> or just around the nametag
11:27:41  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26880 /trunk/src (5 files in 3 dirs) (2014-09-21 11:27:34 UTC)
11:27:42  <DorpsGek> -Add: stub settings for limiting bridge and map height
11:27:52  <b_jonas> or build an airport early, transport passengers with airplanes, and convert the airport to trains later when you have strong trains
11:28:35  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26881 trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp (2014-09-21 11:28:29 UTC)
11:28:36  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: bump the savegame version
11:28:51  <argoneus> keoz: how did you manage to do that o.o
11:28:59  <argoneus> in my game most of those bus staitons would have 4000 passengers
11:29:07  <Eddi|zuHause> station gets from around each tile
11:29:55  <Eddi|zuHause> (roughly. the exact algorithm is a bit weird)
11:31:47  <argoneus> wait
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11:31:50  <argoneus> keoz: in that picture
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11:31:53  <argoneus> how much can one tram carry?
11:31:58  <keoz> argoneus: using German Vehicle Set (trams especially) + Having a network organized as a grid (2) + Finely timetabling the trams (3) + Using a patch I build for allowing trams to wait in depot (4)
11:32:12  <argoneus> oh.
11:32:45  <V453000> I think I am done :)
11:33:07  <Alberth> argoneus: no worries, lots of play time left before you mastered openttd :)
11:33:37  <argoneus> I've played openttd for longer than I'd like to admit ;_;
11:33:44  <argoneus> I always used to think
11:33:49  <argoneus> that airplanes were cheap and noobish
11:33:54  <argoneus> but they actually take time to set up
11:35:30  <Eddi|zuHause> airplanes are terrible
11:35:52  <Eddi|zuHause> can't properly timetable them and they have low capacity
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11:37:36  <planetmaker> use ships :)
11:38:10  <b_jonas> in this game I actually got lots of income from airplanes and ships, but that's only because I set up my trains wrong
11:38:15  <b_jonas> I'm trying to rectify that now
11:40:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26882 /trunk/src (5 files in 3 dirs) (2014-09-21 11:40:11 UTC)
11:40:18  <DorpsGek> -Feature: allow limiting the height of bridges (ic111)
11:41:22  <Wolf01> wasn't that already in trunk (hardcoded)?
11:41:47  <Rubidium> yes... no more than 16 levels high was trunk ;)
11:42:07  <Wolf01> ah so unlimited
11:43:09  <Wolf01> I remember something like "this bridge could have only 1 leve, this one up to 4 levels", but it might have been a patch-pack
11:43:25  <Rubidium> oh, yeah...
11:43:40  <frosch123> Wolf01: there was a minimum height over objects
11:43:56  <peter1138> Original bridges were only 1 level at all, IIRC.
11:44:11  <Eddi|zuHause> newgrfs can set bridge length, but not height, i think
11:44:17  <Wolf01> wait, it's possible to build bridges over objects?
11:44:18  <Rubidium> the concrete bridge may only be 2 high ;)
11:44:26  <peter1138> "has bride above" heh
11:44:51  <Rubidium> did I typo?
11:45:27  <Eddi|zuHause> freudian slip :p
11:45:40  <peter1138> 26876 :)
11:51:04  <argoneus> I just looked at some of the games
11:51:15  <argoneus> why do people opt for lots of small stations with short trains in cities
11:51:16  <argoneus> ?
11:51:40  <argoneus> instead of huge stations with large trains
11:51:53  <Wolf01> quick load, less time to exit the station, I bet
11:53:03  <Alberth> less area coverage, allowing more stations perhaps
11:53:07  <Eddi|zuHause> acceleration, train density/frequence, space usage, ...
11:53:12  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26883 trunk/src/landscape.cpp (2014-09-21 11:53:06 UTC)
11:53:13  <DorpsGek> -Change: make maximum desert height scale with the maximum configured height
11:54:13  <frosch123> short trains have better acceleration, plus it's better for the network if all trains have the same length, and shorter trains allow easier adjusting to amounts, without long waiting for loads
11:54:27  <argoneus> the network in this game is basically
11:54:32  <argoneus> like 4 huge hubs with long trains around the map
11:54:38  <argoneus> and small trains in all cities feeding the huge hubs
11:54:47  <argoneus> seems like a good strategy?
11:55:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't play games this way...
11:55:31  <frosch123> also huge stations are boring
11:55:31  <argoneus> why not?
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11:55:41  <frosch123> many small ones with feeder is a lot more fun to build imho
11:55:58  <frosch123> station walking is a BAD FEATURE :)
11:56:20  <argoneus> station walking?
11:56:24  <planetmaker> :D There we have again that meme :)
11:56:44  <Eddi|zuHause>,%2013.%20Apr%202027.png (12MB)
11:56:47  <Wolf01> mmh, I just thought about a new "disaster": less train capacity based on local authority
11:56:56  <argoneus> oh wow
11:57:01  <argoneus> I thought my stations were robust
11:57:01  <argoneus>
11:57:09  <argoneus> what .. the fuck
11:58:04  <frosch123> argoneus: generally avoid everything labeled "V" :)
11:58:10  <Eddi|zuHause> man, i just tried to use WASD to scroll the screenshot :p
11:58:11  <argoneus> V?
11:58:17  <planetmaker> lol, frosch123 :)
11:58:41  <argoneus> what is V?
11:58:47  <frosch123> who, not what
11:58:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i've asked myself that for years :p
11:58:55  <frosch123> though maybe "what" also works :)
11:58:57  <planetmaker> :) the author of the trackset (trainset) you use
11:59:08  <frosch123> and the constructor of that station in that game
11:59:11  <frosch123> *screenshot
11:59:20  <argoneus> is V some train genius?
11:59:42  <peter1138> More a madman
11:59:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i did think "that screenshot has V written all over it", and then it actually did :p
12:00:10  <planetmaker> oh, yeah, also V's the creator of that station...
12:00:22  <Wolf01> what could I eat, omelette or a banana?
12:00:34  <Eddi|zuHause> banana ommelette?
12:00:59  <Rubidium> ?
12:01:01  <planetmaker> omlette with banana actually can be quite delicious
12:01:29  <Wolf01> I was thinking more an omelette with wurstel and cheese
12:01:42  <planetmaker> and banana?
12:01:58  <argoneus> so um
12:02:01  <argoneus> is it a valid tactic not to use buses
12:02:02  <Wolf01> banana with nutella
12:02:05  <argoneus> but have one large station outside the city
12:02:09  <argoneus> and small stations inside the city
12:02:09  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26884 /trunk/src (newgrf.cpp settings_type.h) (2014-09-21 12:02:03 UTC)
12:02:10  <DorpsGek> -Change: scale the NewGRF's snow line level according to the configured maximum map height
12:02:11  <argoneus> and feed the large one?
12:02:19  <planetmaker> argoneus, any tactic is valid. The only goal is you having fun :)
12:02:25  <argoneus> well
12:02:29  <argoneus> a valid tactic to make profit
12:02:40  <planetmaker> nearly every tactic makes profit :P
12:02:49  <frosch123> you should put "fun" over "profit"
12:02:56  <keoz> making profit is easy
12:03:02  <frosch123> in almost all situations in life
12:03:06  <argoneus> okay
12:03:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it's nearly impossible to not make profit in this game...
12:03:15  <argoneus> is it a valid tactic
12:03:22  <keoz> not a real challenge
12:03:22  <Eddi|zuHause> unless you start in 1800 with no vehicle progress and inflation enabled...
12:03:23  <argoneus> if I want to make sure all people will be delivered
12:03:24  <argoneus> in time
12:03:25  <argoneus> :<
12:03:44  <Alberth> argoneus: you and only you decide what valid is and what not
12:03:50  <argoneus> god damn it :D
12:03:58  <frosch123> argoneus: personally i prefer trams :p
12:04:08  <argoneus> I don't know what newgrfs to get
12:04:13  <argoneus> there's a thousand of them
12:04:17  <frosch123> trams feeding to trains, trains feeding to ships
12:04:18  <argoneus> and they may conflict with eachother
12:04:21  <frosch123> ignore busses and aircraft
12:04:26  <argoneus> I wish there was an openttd newgrf starter pack or something
12:04:32  <argoneus> with things that people generally like
12:04:33  <argoneus> :(
12:04:40  <keoz> that would make no sense
12:04:44  <frosch123> there is nothing which people generally like
12:04:45  <Eddi|zuHause> just get one of each type
12:04:48  <keoz> everybody uses different GRF's
12:04:55  <Alberth> I don't think you could point out a newgrf that everybody likes
12:04:58  <keoz> try them over time
12:05:06  <Eddi|zuHause> if you prefer a country, pick all that have this country in the name
12:05:08  <Alberth> and not too many at the same time
12:05:12  <argoneus> well
12:05:14  <keoz> you don't need to fill your game with plenty of GRF's at once
12:05:16  <argoneus> but there can be some train set I like
12:05:20  <argoneus> and then it doesn't work with FIRS
12:05:24  <argoneus> and then something else
12:05:24  <keoz> browse them, try them, add them progressively
12:05:25  <argoneus> ;_;
12:05:40  <Eddi|zuHause> that's bad luck, but difficult to avoid
12:05:51  <planetmaker> every decent trainset works with firs
12:06:04  <keoz> well, with major trainsets such as UKRS or NARS, you're sure it will work with firs
12:06:18  <Alberth> such info would in fact be interesting to add while selecting newgrfs, imho
12:06:27  <Eddi|zuHause> some people may be bad coders, but we can't prevent them from publishing their work. and some things are just too old and not maintained
12:06:31  <argoneus> I don't even know what's a major trainset
12:06:37  <frosch123> argoneus: newgrfs are like hearthstone decks. you can find a miracle rogue deck, but you may not have all cards for it, and even if it is considered the best, you may consider it boring to play :p
12:06:40  <argoneus> I don't recognize any of the names
12:07:06  <frosch123> argoneus: let's say, you first need to figure out what type of player you are
12:07:12  <argoneus> I just want to add believable variety between vehicles, as in, no regular train in one direction, and a flashy clown car in the other
12:07:28  <frosch123> do you want to play, or do you want to draw scenery
12:07:37  <Eddi|zuHause> then don't use NUTS :p
12:07:42  <planetmaker> <-- this is what I used in my last game, argoneus
12:07:42  <argoneus> I want to have lots of variety between vehicles
12:07:42  <keoz> :p
12:07:46  <frosch123> do you want to make stuff effective, or do you want to make stuff look in a specific way
12:07:53  <frosch123> do you want to power-play, or do you want to role-play...
12:07:54  <argoneus> but no overpowered things
12:08:05  <argoneus> I'm fine with the vanilla game
12:08:09  <argoneus> I just want bigger cars and more trains
12:08:35  <keoz> well, for the cars, the classical GRF is eGRVTS
12:09:04  <planetmaker> I suggest heqs. It has excellent feeder trams :)
12:09:04  <keoz> a nice one to add is GRV:
12:09:06  <argoneus> oh, that looks exactly like the kind of thing I want
12:09:23  <frosch123> argoneus: a standard combination for the playing-type of player would be: NUTS, OGFX+RV, HEQS, FISH2, AV9 for vehicles
12:09:31  <keoz> planetmaker: does it ? I didn't explored it enough. Also manages passengers ?
12:09:46  <argoneus> so egrvts + grv?
12:09:49  <frosch123> for industries: either FIRS if you want something drastically different, or if the overwhelms you, try ogfx+industries instead
12:09:50  <planetmaker> keoz, probably not so much. dunno
12:09:52  <argoneus> does that work together well?
12:10:06  <argoneus> frosch123: FIRS is a bit too much for me I figured
12:10:10  <argoneus> but I don't know what else to do
12:10:12  <keoz> argoneus: in my case, those 2 work fine together
12:10:14  <argoneus> just going coal - factory
12:10:16  <argoneus> oil - refinery
12:10:17  <argoneus> is kind of boring
12:10:17  <frosch123> argoneus: did you find the parameter gui for firs?
12:10:30  <Eddi|zuHause> my usual set up is something like DBSetXL(+FIRS extension),GermanRV,HEQS,AV8,FISH
12:10:35  <argoneus> frosch123: parameter GUI?
12:10:46  <Alberth> argoneus: default firs is very big, but you can select a basic economy as well, which is much better playable
12:10:51  <frosch123> in newgrf settings, you can select a grf, and then there is a button at the bottom for parameters
12:11:01  <frosch123> the good newgrfs allow adjusting various things
12:11:15  <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: those things
12:11:18  <argoneus> look like what I want
12:11:21  <frosch123> in the case of firs, you can choose different economies with significantly lower industry type counts
12:11:51  <argoneus> so something like
12:11:54  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also exchange FISH for NewShips.
12:12:00  <argoneus> dbsetxl, firs, fish, grv, heqs and av8
12:12:02  <argoneus> that works fine?
12:12:02  <keoz> or use them together.
12:12:26  <frosch123> argoneus: dbset is ancient, you need the extension grf, which eddi mentions
12:12:26  <Eddi|zuHause> DBSetXL needs an extension GRF to support the cargos
12:12:34  <frosch123> using a more modern set is way easier :)
12:12:40  <planetmaker> and it's not readily available either
12:12:46  <argoneus> extension grf?
12:12:51  <argoneus> what then :<
12:13:01  <frosch123> just ignore eddi :p
12:13:03  <keoz> Ok. Now the guy is even more confused as before :p
12:13:06  <planetmaker> well, the suggestion I pasted above :)
12:13:08  <Eddi|zuHause> it's easy to find on grfcrawler
12:13:09  <argoneus> what about 2cc?
12:13:14  <keoz> never tried it
12:13:26  <planetmaker> keoz, sure. Never ask about "the best newgrf combo". 10 people, 15 opinions
12:13:30  <frosch123> argoneus: try one train set at a time
12:13:32  <frosch123> less confusing
12:13:33  <keoz> Clearly ^^
12:13:34  <Eddi|zuHause> 2cc-Set probably fails the "no overpowered" check :p
12:13:44  <argoneus> I'm already confused
12:13:51  <planetmaker> argoneus, yes. Just try stuff.
12:13:52  <argoneus> I need some special version of dbsetxl?
12:13:56  <Eddi|zuHause> 2cc-Set is MASSIVE
12:14:01  <planetmaker> there's no comprehensive 'must have', 'must use' guide
12:14:06  <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: that sounds good
12:14:06  <planetmaker> everyone has a different opinion
12:14:11  <frosch123> argoneus: exactly, that's why i would not recommend dbset for a starter
12:14:11  <argoneus> massive as in
12:14:13  <argoneus> a huge choice?
12:14:21  <argoneus> a huge set of choices*
12:14:23  <Alberth> yep
12:14:23  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus:
12:15:03  <argoneus> but aren't there also like conflicts
12:15:04  <argoneus> like
12:15:11  <argoneus> isn't some road vehicle set aimed at 1950 start date
12:15:15  <argoneus> and another train set at 1850
12:15:16  <frosch123> yes, there are tons of conflicts with dbset
12:15:17  <argoneus> and then it fucks up?
12:15:23  <frosch123> for example you can only use it in temperate
12:15:29  <frosch123> only with certain extension grfs and such
12:15:31  <argoneus> I'll try 2cc
12:15:36  <argoneus> and see if I like it
12:15:39  <Eddi|zuHause> sets are generally fine for a 1920-ish start
12:15:44  <Eddi|zuHause> before that it gets tricky
12:15:57  <argoneus> oh wow
12:15:59  <argoneus> 2cc has a LOT of trains
12:16:04  <keoz> UKRS/eGRVTS are fine before 1920
12:16:24  <argoneus> can I use egrvts with heq and grv?
12:16:28  <argoneus> or not suggested
12:16:39  <keoz> I do and never experienced problems.
12:16:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i suggest you stop theorycrafting now, and just try some of the already mentioned combinations
12:16:49  <keoz> +1
12:16:55  <keoz> take time. One at a time.
12:16:55  <argoneus> oki
12:17:02  <b_jonas> 2cc is a more realistic than the default set, but is more difficult to play IMO
12:17:11  <argoneus> 2cc / grv / heq / av8/ fish / firs basic
12:17:14  <argoneus> I'll try these
12:17:26  <keoz> that's a good starting point
12:17:26  <b_jonas> as in, you have to make choices between trains depending on their intended use rather than always choosing the best one
12:17:35  <argoneus> all those sets work with FIRS btw?
12:17:37  <b_jonas> argoneus: try fish2
12:17:42  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
12:18:31  <frosch123> hmm, is it a safe bet that all grfs in content download work with firs?
12:18:31  <keoz> Don't forget to configure them before starting your game.
12:18:46  <frosch123> as in: the ancient cruft that does not work, never made it there?
12:18:47  <argoneus> oki
12:18:48  <argoneus> thanks
12:19:19  <b_jonas> argoneus: don't you want a town replacement set too?
12:19:47  <b_jonas> and extra stations? I really like Industrial Stations set, plus you may want some others for passenger stations too
12:20:07  <b_jonas> all the fancy bling on stations is really nice
12:20:10  <b_jonas> eyecandy
12:20:34  <keoz> b_jonas: maybee it's better let him time to get into the first one he's going to try :)
12:20:55  <b_jonas> sure
12:21:16  <b_jonas> I don't like most of these town replacement sets, I want a better one
12:21:23  <keoz> TTRS is nice
12:22:03  * keoz pulls trunk fearing for its patches.
12:22:05  <b_jonas> I tried that but I didn't like it
12:22:36  <b_jonas> I think my problem with TTRS is that already in 1950 the towns looked like they're from 2000
12:22:43  <b_jonas> I want rural stuff in 1950
12:23:08  <Eddi|zuHause> you want 1950 towns to look all bombed out?
12:23:17  <Eddi|zuHause> like "realistic"?
12:23:22  <b_jonas> no
12:23:28  <keoz> b_jonas: I mix Swedish houses + TTRS + TaI :p
12:23:36  <keoz> works fine together
12:23:37  <b_jonas> keoz: Swedish is good, yes
12:23:43  <b_jonas> what's TaI?
12:23:55  <keoz> Pikka's Town and Industries
12:24:02  <b_jonas> I see
12:24:09  <Eddi|zuHause> that would be PTaI? :p
12:24:14  <keoz> actually the GRF only introduces houses and is in an early stage of development
12:24:21  <Eddi|zuHause> or is the P silent? :p
12:25:01  <Eddi|zuHause> (why does english have so many silent letters?)
12:25:11  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26885 /trunk/src (8 files in 6 dirs) (2014-09-21 12:25:04 UTC)
12:25:12  <DorpsGek> -Feature-ish: user interface for limiting the maximum height of a map
12:25:25  <keoz> Mmh. Pulled to fast :p
12:25:38  <keoz> Maybee wait for evening.
12:25:50  <Eddi|zuHause> keoz: probably shouldn't pull before the nightly :p
12:25:56  <keoz> yeah !
12:26:32  <keoz> which is actually a good thing, since I theorically have a lot of work :p
12:26:43  <Eddi|zuHause> on a sunday?
12:26:57  <keoz> I'm teacher. Need to prepare my lessons for next week.
12:29:25  *** gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
12:33:05  <frosch123> so, you are a young teacher :p
12:33:36  <argoneus> oh
12:33:40  <argoneus> there's also new towns and stations?
12:33:42  <argoneus> anything good?
12:33:53  <Eddi|zuHause> plenty...
12:34:19  <keoz> frosch123: well, for the kids I'm an old old old man :)
12:34:35  <frosch123> argoneus: let's say, there is an overwhelming amount of stations :)
12:34:41  <argoneus> oh
12:34:51  <keoz> argoneus: the basics: NewStations, Industrial Station Renewal
12:35:01  <Alberth> chips
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12:35:12  <frosch123> keoz: i had a geography teacher, who used only material from his own school time
12:35:23  <argoneus> keoz: that's only
12:35:23  <frosch123> he literally repeated word by word what he used
12:35:27  <keoz> Outch
12:35:28  <argoneus> only visual, right?
12:35:34  <keoz> must have been hard :p
12:35:36  <frosch123> he was not able to comprehent what he was talking about
12:35:41  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26886 trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp (2014-09-21 12:35:34 UTC)
12:35:42  <DorpsGek> -Change (r26885): the max height setting belongs more in the limitations section of the settings
12:35:49  <keoz> I teach history/geography. I like using beamers
12:35:51  <frosch123> you were better at tests if you could memorize the exact wording :p
12:36:28  <keoz> (mmh is beamer used in english ?)
12:37:30  <frosch123> no, it's a data/video projector
12:37:56  <frosch123> a beamer is a "KettenanschÀrer", no idea what that is though :p
12:38:14  <Eddi|zuHause> never heard that word before :p
12:38:41  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like a chainsaw-type thing to shear sheep :p
12:39:01  <Wolf01> ok, cheese omelette and a banana, I lwft out the wurstel because I didn't want to open one of those uber sized 3-pack, now I'm ready to do.. mmmh the coffee
12:39:12  <Eddi|zuHause> which doesn't sound very safe :p
12:39:30  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26887 /trunk/src (cheat_gui.cpp cheat_type.h) (2014-09-21 12:39:24 UTC)
12:39:31  <DorpsGek> -Add: cheat for changing the height level (mostly due to the mess with changing snow levels and such)
12:40:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: is that a wise thing to do? i vaguely remember that we once removed the climate cheat, because things were just too messy
12:40:57  <argoneus> er
12:41:05  <argoneus> I can't find "german road vehicles" in content download
12:41:10  <Rubidium> climate change is at least an order of magnitude worse
12:41:12  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not there
12:41:19  <Eddi|zuHause> get it from website
12:41:29  <argoneus> is egrvts2 a worthy replacement?
12:41:31  <argoneus> I mean, does it have trams?
12:41:39  <argoneus> like, trams that can carry a lot
12:41:48  *** oskari89 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:42:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i heard that trams in eGRVTS do not offer any improvement over road vehicles, but i never used it
12:42:09  <argoneus> oh
12:42:19  <Rubidium> there is already moving snowlines, but say double the height level moves the snow level by a factor two as well so places that used to have snow won't anymore
12:42:35  <Rubidium> so they might lose things like required cargos
12:42:55  <Rubidium> but that's more a game play issue that having the wrong cargos and such
12:43:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes. so industries with the flag "Must be above maximum snow height" won't be anymore
12:43:54  <Rubidium> and once they die, the won't respawn (unless you build higher mountains)
12:44:11  <Rubidium> likewise, if you add a NewGRF with a much higher snow line you get the same effect
12:44:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26888 /trunk/src (ground_vehicle.hpp roadveh_cmd.cpp) (2014-09-21 12:44:38 UTC)
12:44:46  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: use ints for some z-levels of vehicles (ic111)
12:45:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: maybe a scenario_developer-only setting is more useful than a cheat?
12:45:31  <keoz> argoneus:
12:45:38  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that can be a GUI thing then
12:46:21  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: you got the same issues in SE
12:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but maybe a person that enabled scenario_developer mode knows about some of them :p
12:51:16  <argoneus> wait what
12:51:19  <argoneus> there is monorail in 1950 in 2CC
12:51:52  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds about right
12:52:15  <Eddi|zuHause> monorail as in that weird commuter rail stuff that never really took off
12:52:32  <argoneus> so it's not as good as vanilla monorail?
12:52:40  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea
12:53:07  <Eddi|zuHause> but some cities have a monorail system where others would have a metro/subway
12:54:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it won't be this ultra-high-speed stuff that you know from original
12:54:14  <argoneus> oh ok
12:55:53  <frosch123> 2cc is a realism-based newgrf, you won't find stuff that didn't exist
12:56:03  <frosch123> unless maybe after 2010 in rare cases
12:56:16  <frosch123> i.e. after the grf was released
13:00:28  <argoneus> for some reason
13:00:32  <argoneus> my town names don't work
13:00:39  <argoneus> I enabled like 4 of them but when I make map they aren't there
13:00:53  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to select them in game settings after you added the grf
13:01:04  <frosch123> only add one grf, and enable them in game options
13:01:04  <argoneus> oh
13:01:09  <frosch123> it's tricky :p
13:01:21  <frosch123> one of the shittiest interfaces we have :)
13:01:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, right after the font size setting :p
13:01:42  <frosch123> funnily it fails even more in stable releases
13:04:18  <Eddi|zuHause> well, my suggestion was: scan all grfs for town name content (or add action14 flag), remove those from the list of available grfs, but add them to town name setting. then on game start automatically activate the appropriate grf
13:04:47  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, and what about grfs which do both, townnames and other shit? (do we have those?)
13:05:01  <Eddi|zuHause> those should better not exist...
13:05:10  <Eddi|zuHause> they cause weird stuff anyway
13:05:20  <Eddi|zuHause> treat them as townname-only
13:22:46  <Rubidium> <- does Supercheese have a point there? It as if he does to me
13:23:18  <LordAro> seems like it to me
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13:23:43  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
13:24:59  <Eddi|zuHause> although the whole sentence doesn't make much sense if you don't already know what it means
13:25:15  <Eddi|zuHause> makes a terrible case for a tooltip
13:25:21  <Eddi|zuHause> or description
13:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause> does anyone ever disable that, anyway?
13:25:54  <Rubidium> the signal GUI?
13:26:08  <Rubidium> if so, then yes
13:26:10  <planetmaker> the 2nd one should be "built". The first one remain "build"
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13:27:37  <Rubidium> so, who can come up with a better description
13:28:36  <LordAro> personally, i think Eddi|zuHause's right - that setting is rather useless
13:29:19  <Pikka> ctrl-clicking still cycles through presignals, right?
13:29:42  <planetmaker> depends on setting, Pikka
13:29:45  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you can even select presignal-only, pathsignal-only or all
13:30:07  <Pikka> right
13:30:16  <planetmaker> and indeed, maybe the 'enable signal gui' setting is one which could become openttd.cfg - only
13:30:21  <planetmaker> or just disappear
13:30:28  <Rubidium> LordAro: if I remove the setting, then I remove the window as well
13:30:39  <LordAro> why?
13:30:41  <Eddi|zuHause> pffft :p
13:30:51  * Pikka thinks, by default, both ctrl-clicking and the signal gui should be path signals only
13:30:52  <Rubidium> because the window is rather useless for me ;)
13:31:09  <Pikka> non-path signals are a relic for "advanced" builders only ;)
13:31:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: or maybe change the setting so the gui also has the option presignal-only, pathsignal-only, all, none
13:32:13  <Eddi|zuHause> but some people use path signas plus the plain block signal
13:32:21  <Eddi|zuHause> might want to cater for those, too.
13:32:42  <Pikka> those people are "advanced" and can turn the full selection on
13:33:11  <planetmaker> path signals and all signals might suffice
13:33:40  <Pikka> for new players, the difference between "plain block signals" and path signals is a common point of confusion
13:33:50  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if this is "advanced". many noob-advice threads talk about using the block signal on straight track with no switches
13:33:56  <planetmaker> yeah. And default could be 'path signals only'
13:34:30  <Pikka> eddi: yes, because the reddit crowd etc take it as gospel that using path signals everywhere is going to kill performance
13:34:45  <Eddi|zuHause> but yes, maybe when we want to phase out the block signals, hiding them by default may be a good idea
13:35:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: not only there
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13:35:17  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like "moving goods to town improves growth"
13:35:27  <Eddi|zuHause> an urban myth that's hard to kill
13:35:48  <Pikka> it would be easier to kill if there were fewer noobs asking "what's the difference between all these signals" ;)
13:36:04  <Pikka> which would happen if we hid the non-path signals by default
13:36:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you've convinced me.
13:36:29  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: why? Okay, moving goods away from towns improves growth in the same way... but still... it's an improvement over not moving goods
13:36:43  <Rubidium> at least when you don't have a booming pax/mail network in the town
13:36:48  <planetmaker> Rubidium, could be pax or mail, too (goods was meant as the cargo label)
13:37:10  <planetmaker> coal or oil works the same way, if close enough
13:37:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: exactly, there is nothing special about goods
13:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> can get the same growths by serving 5 coal mines
13:38:45  <Rubidium> true, but it doesn't say "only moving goods improves growth"
13:39:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but it's meant that way
13:41:18  <Rubidium> are you sure?
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13:41:55  <Rubidium> I see it as a scientist having tried stuff and there's a remarkable improvement in town growth when sending (only) goods to the town
13:42:08  <Rubidium> but then I'm a bit pedantic in those kinds of things
13:42:55  <Rubidium> "you know that this contract means X and Y, right", no... it means "do it as you do it now" (which is definitely not X and Y)
13:43:43  <argoneus> who here was helping me with timetabling?
13:43:50  <argoneus> something with telling a bus to wait for a long time at one station to catch up
13:44:58  <frosch123> eddi and me
13:45:05  <frosch123> it's always the same douchebags
13:45:08  <argoneus> :<
13:45:12  <frosch123> maybe you can ask pm for a third opinion
13:45:15  <argoneus> so um
13:45:19  <argoneus> I autofilled the orders
13:45:24  <argoneus> and set them to wait at one station for 10 days
13:45:30  <argoneus> and now I'm not sure what the start date should be
13:45:32  <argoneus> does it even matter?
13:46:05  <frosch123> no, the absolute start date does not matter
13:46:13  <frosch123> only the relative start date between vehicles
13:46:18  <Eddi|zuHause> ctrl+click on "start date" to spread out evenly all vehicles that share this order
13:46:35  <argoneus> oh ok
13:46:50  <Eddi|zuHause> and make sure at the station with the waiting time there is sufficient space for overtaking
13:47:04  <argoneus> overtaking?
13:47:08  <argoneus> as in, having more loading slots?
13:47:14  <argoneus> so they don't have to wait
13:47:22  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise late vehicles will eternally get stuck behind an on-time vehicle
13:47:32  <argoneus> ok
13:47:51  <Rubidium> or specifically, for measurements: "maximum time between measurements: 4 months, maximum exceedance of maximum time: 4 weeks" vs "measure in a timeframe of 5 weeks window before and after moment repeating every 4 months, you may exceed that 10 week period by 3 weeks" (in other words, you're not exceeding is you do the first measurement at the begin of the window and the second at the end, a difference of 4 months + 10 weeks (over 6 months)). Now
13:48:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but when you say "only transport goods" that already skews the measurements that you might get
13:49:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: like this experiment with the 3 grass types
13:50:13  <Eddi|zuHause> get a sloped area (from "wet" to "dry"), and drop each seed type separately, all give the same outcome of optimal growth. drop in all 3 seed types together, you get one grass type optimizing on "wet", the other on "dry" and the third in the middle.
13:50:31  <Eddi|zuHause> a result you would never get from observing each one individually
13:51:14  <Rubidium> true, but isn't that one of the fallacies of science?
13:51:32  <Rubidium> you need to try *all* permutations of *everything* before you can conclusively say something?
13:51:42  <Pikka> so, given all that, does "affect towns as goods/candy does" in the cargo spec actually do anything? ;)
13:52:23  <Rubidium> well, towns in snowy areas need goods to grow (and I guess in toyland too)
13:52:34  <Eddi|zuHause>
13:52:35  <Rubidium> but that's specific to those towns
13:52:44  <Pikka> they need water and food
13:52:47  <Pikka> do they need goods?
13:53:13  <Pikka>
13:54:49  <Pikka> that says "affect towns as goods" used to affect subsidy generation, but doesn't any more. so does it do anything now?
13:55:23  <MTsPony> hey guys how do i change and KEEP a setting saved on a running server, so it writes it to openttd.cfg on exit? i use "setting" command to chsnge stuff but it wont last :(
13:55:30  <Rubidium> hmm, you're right
13:56:10  <Rubidium> MTsPony: setting_newgame + save_config?
13:56:24  <Rubidium> but that affects only new games
13:56:53  <MTsPony> thats ok. im just annoyed whenever i change a setting in a running game its lost on server exit or auto restart.
13:56:58  <Rubidium> regardless, a dedicated server might be configured to reread the configuration file upon restart trashing all local changes
13:57:25  <argoneus> how do I make my buses overtake?
13:57:28  <argoneus> there's a train of 4 buses
13:57:36  <argoneus> and they always move into the same station
13:57:41  <argoneus> even though they can choose another one
13:58:23  <Pikka> it's hard to tell without a screenshot, argoneus
13:58:57  <argoneus>
13:59:14  <argoneus> industrial park is my waiting station
13:59:25  <argoneus> and it has two stations, one in front of the depo and one where the tag is
13:59:40  <Pikka> those appear to be trams
13:59:43  <argoneus> yes
13:59:58  <argoneus> but trams can choose different paths, no?
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14:00:56  <Pikka> yep. but they can't overtake, and they won't necessarily realise they need to go a different way if there's a big gap between the junction and the station.
14:01:12  <argoneus> what can I do then? :<
14:01:41  <argoneus> I just need them spread out
14:01:54  <Pikka> let them bunch up, or provide different routes
14:02:03  *** kais58_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:02:11  <Pikka> one way to at least seperate them into two groups would be to send them around the loop in opposite directions
14:02:36  <argoneus> hmm
14:03:10  <argoneus> by the way
14:03:13  <argoneus> buses overtake when needed?
14:03:37  <peter1138> path signals only, yes
14:03:45  <argoneus> path signals?
14:03:51  <Pikka> non-articulated, non-tram buses can overtake
14:04:04  <peter1138> special setting: "my_name_is_v453000_and_i_like_block_signals" yes
14:04:11  <Pikka> path signals are a different conversation :)
14:04:25  <peter1138> yeah i just got back in and read the scroll back :D
14:04:39  <argoneus> oh
14:06:19  <peter1138> Maximum map height: 15
14:06:38  <peter1138> What's that for?
14:07:15  <planetmaker> allow specifying other maximum heights?
14:07:21  <peter1138> Hmm
14:07:33  <peter1138> Maybe it would if the buttons weren't greyed out.
14:08:43  *** guru3_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:11:20  <Rubidium> peter1138: just change a specific constant in src/tile_type.h
14:11:46  *** kais58__ is now known as kais58|AFK
14:11:50  <peter1138> If it's not ready I won't bother yet :)
14:11:52  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: i found most effective for end stations is a setup like this:,%204.%20Aug%201953_3.png like "SÃŒd" on the lower right
14:12:24  <argoneus> oh
14:12:25  <argoneus> I see
14:12:28  <argoneus> that looks neat
14:12:30  <Eddi|zuHause> trams can choose equally likely whether they go left or right around
14:12:43  <Eddi|zuHause> so when the platform is already occupied, they choose the other one
14:12:52  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, you're not meant to knock down all the buildings
14:13:14  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: but when they stand in my view...
14:14:49  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: but it works better when the trams are a full tile long, instead of a half tile
14:15:01  <argoneus> oh
14:15:06  <argoneus> I don't have any bigger trams yet
14:15:06  <argoneus> :<
14:15:28  <peter1138> Meh, I suppose I'll have to start using NewGRFs soon...
14:15:44  <Eddi|zuHause> with half-tile you tend to get two trams stuck together
14:22:38  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26889 /trunk/src/linkgraph (refresh.cpp refresh.h) (2014-09-21 14:22:32 UTC)
14:22:39  <DorpsGek> -Feature: Predict links for station-autorefitting vehicles
14:25:04  <keoz> I like block signals. They work perfectly fine.
14:26:56  <Eddi|zuHause> whoo..
14:27:23  <peter1138> Until you try to signal up a two-way station
14:27:50  <keoz> That's why I use path signals when I need path signals :)
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14:28:06  <keoz> It introduces more variety in the game. Variety is nice :)
14:29:45  <keoz> I even have some sort of pervert pleasure still using pre-signals, sometime.
14:29:55  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, damn it, I just tried to scroll your screenshot :(
14:30:20  <argoneus> wait
14:30:23  <argoneus> the long tile trams
14:30:28  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i posted a giant screenshot of that game earlier (or, like 30 times in the past)
14:30:28  <argoneus> do they need more stations?
14:30:41  <argoneus> tram station tiles that is
14:30:53  <keoz> Nope.
14:30:55  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138:,%2013.%20Apr%202027.png (12MB)
14:31:35  <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately, it's a savegame made with a YACD version that only i ever had...
14:32:00  <peter1138> :)
14:32:04  <peter1138> YACD was nice...
14:32:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. there were some advantages and some disadvantages over cargodist
14:33:31  <Eddi|zuHause> the advantage was that it encouraged connecting remote industries, the disadvantage that you had to stick to that exact set of industries that was given at game start
14:33:38  <keoz> Never tried it. Cargo destinations where independent from served or unserved stations, isn't it ?
14:33:38  <Eddi|zuHause> which made it difficult to start out
14:33:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
14:34:14  <peter1138> connecting remote industries is a problem, really
14:34:21  <peter1138> it gives you way too much money
14:34:29  <peter1138> connecting the local industries is a harder game, i think
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14:35:41  <Eddi|zuHause> by "remote" i meant "somewhat deviant from your network", like on a hill
14:35:52  <Eddi|zuHause> in cargodist, you can just ignore such industries
14:36:24  <Eddi|zuHause> and shove everything to the same factory
14:37:19  <Eddi|zuHause> that is especially terrible with goods and food, which have no actual purpose
14:37:39  <Eddi|zuHause> connecting more destinations may diminish your income
14:37:53  <Eddi|zuHause> so it's discouraged with cargodist
14:38:09  <Eddi|zuHause> but YACD enforced that distribution, because it would increase the supply
14:39:27  <peter1138> ah, right, ok
14:39:39  <peter1138> yes, with cargodist i can send everything to an industry the other side of the map
14:40:06  <peter1138> but someone once said it would be relatively easy to make cargodist to behave like cargodest
14:40:09  <peter1138> not seen it though :S
14:40:45  <Eddi|zuHause> we had an extensive discussion with fonso on the forum and he decided he wouldn't code it
14:42:03  *** oskari89 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:42:11  <Eddi|zuHause> afair one of the main problems was an efficient way to find "all suitible destinations"
14:45:42  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26890 trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp (2014-09-21 14:45:35 UTC)
14:45:43  <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: remove unneeded obfuscation via IConsoleSetSetting
14:46:34  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i would leave that to game scripts
14:46:50  <frosch123> there are too many opinions on how demand/supply should work
14:47:31  <peter1138> mostly because people seem to think they own the industries and cargo :p
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15:04:55  <Eddi|zuHause> one UI thing about train fever that's probably dangerous is that in the load savegame screen, the "delete" button is way closer to the savegame than the "start" button...
15:09:24  <keoz> Implicitely: You just deleted a savegame ? :p
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15:17:56  <Eddi|zuHause> no
15:18:05  <Eddi|zuHause> but i think that i would every time i open that screen
15:19:23  <Eddi|zuHause> the game is great, but the UI is wrong on so many details
15:20:18  <Eddi|zuHause> like half the common tasks need more clicks than they need because the button is on some remote location
15:20:33  <Eddi|zuHause> or the save game window doesn't remember the last name i gave it
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15:21:11  <Eddi|zuHause> or after you close the save game window, it keeps focus, so your keypresses disappear somewhere, until you click on the map
15:22:12  <michi_cc> Yeah, the UI is.... Just compare the rail depot window with the road depot window.
15:22:48  <Eddi|zuHause> or the snapping point distance for train stations is too large, train stations only snap to roads, not to rails, and the snapping distance for continuing the second track is too low, sometimes leaving tiny gaps in the rails
15:23:55  <Eddi|zuHause> also annoying: all the 4 corners have menus in them, so you can't map-edge-scroll diagonally
15:24:44  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how that can be resolved properly, though
15:24:56  <Eddi|zuHause> also: did anyone find a hotkey for pausing/unpausing?
15:25:10  <peter1138> f1 :D
15:26:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, no :p
15:26:40  <Eddi|zuHause> also annoying: clicking on the pause button again does not unpause
15:27:43  <Eddi|zuHause> and there's loads of missing features, like: "unload at the next station and then go to depot"
15:27:57  <Eddi|zuHause> instead of "instantly drop all your cargo and go to depot"
15:28:29  <argoneus> what station width do you guys use?
15:28:32  <Eddi|zuHause> and, of course, planning mode for multiple sections of track
15:28:44  <Alberth> argoneus: 4-6
15:28:46  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: one track for each line
15:28:51  <argoneus> I mean
15:28:52  <argoneus> in settings
15:28:55  <argoneus> maximum width
15:29:06  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, you're talking about openttd :p
15:29:08  <argoneus> because when I have a bus station in the city linked to a train station
15:29:17  <argoneus> eventually I can't expand it
15:29:26  <argoneus> oh, what were you talking about?
15:29:36  <keoz> a new toy :)
15:29:47  <argoneus> that train fever thing?
15:30:02  * Alberth gives argoneus a cookie
15:30:10  <argoneus> I haven't played it
15:30:14  <argoneus> it sounds like some facebook game from the name
15:30:31  <Eddi|zuHause> it is very not a facebook game...
15:30:43  <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely sure what a facebook game is, though
15:31:13  <argoneus> oh
15:31:15  <argoneus> is it actually good?
15:31:38  <argoneus> according to reviews it's very unpolished
15:31:46  <Eddi|zuHause> supposedly the core mechanics of a facebook game is "annoy all people you know by repeatedly sending them invite links"
15:32:19  <Eddi|zuHause> all the reviews are true, basically. doesn't mean it's not an addicting game with beatiful graphics
15:32:57  <argoneus> question
15:33:02  <Eddi|zuHause> answer
15:33:09  <argoneus> 1, is there a way to refit to the proper engine when replacing train engines?
15:33:19  <b_jonas> maybe they'll improve the UI later
15:33:21  <argoneus> I remember replacing my diesel train with another diesel train
15:33:25  <argoneus> but it was refitted to fruit
15:33:30  <argoneus> even though it had 12 passenger wagons
15:33:36  <Eddi|zuHause> (again, why is there a silent "w" in "answer"?)
15:33:36  <argoneus> why.jpg
15:34:13  <argoneus> and 2,
15:34:22  <argoneus> if you have a, say, passenger network from A to B
15:34:29  <argoneus> and there is city C roughly between them
15:34:35  <argoneus> how do you connect it to this network?
15:34:50  <argoneus> and if you say "however you want" I am going to be sad :<
15:35:13  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: autoreplace refits to the same cargo that the original vehicle was carrying. if the original didn't carry any cargo, it can only use the default cargo
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15:36:05  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: the real question is why you didn't connect that city first?
15:36:29  <argoneus> no well
15:36:31  <argoneus> wait let me make picture
15:37:16  <argoneus>
15:37:28  <argoneus> I was thinking
15:37:29  <Eddi|zuHause> and the answer is: either a line (A-C-B-C), or a triangle (A-B), (B-C), (C-A)
15:37:34  <argoneus> maybe add a station in the middle
15:37:40  <argoneus> like
15:38:02  <b_jonas> argoneus: is C smaller or larger than the others?
15:38:13  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also try two circles (A-B-C) and (A-C-B)
15:38:17  <b_jonas> probably smaller if you haven't yet connected it yet
15:38:34  <argoneus>
15:38:36  <argoneus> would this work?
15:39:05  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but at B you must have connected stations (and cargodist enabled)
15:39:27  <argoneus> yes I have cargodist
15:39:27  <Eddi|zuHause> (or is that not a "B")?
15:39:42  <argoneus> B is outside the picture
15:39:43  <argoneus> at top right
15:39:49  <Eddi|zuHause> difficult to tell with your "Sauklaue"
15:39:54  <argoneus> :<
15:40:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i meant that wiggly thing between the rectangle-ish-es
15:40:27  <argoneus> that's a station walking symbol
15:40:37  <argoneus> that I just devised
15:40:41  <argoneus> it's supposed to be a chain
15:41:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, if those are the same station, it will work
15:41:39  <Eddi|zuHause> the mathematical concept behind that is a "Steiner-Tree"
15:42:02  <argoneus> oh
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15:42:19  <argoneus> heh
15:42:25  <argoneus> I never thought about my stations as graphs
15:42:28  <Eddi|zuHause> to connect 3 points in a graph, you not connect the 3 points by lines, but you introduce a 4th point, which you connect to the 3 others
15:42:41  <Eddi|zuHause> which may or may not result in shorter connections
15:42:58  <Eddi|zuHause> as in the overall length of track you lay down
15:43:00  <argoneus> oh by the way
15:43:04  <argoneus> if I have stations A - B - C
15:43:09  <argoneus> and my orders are A->B->C
15:43:17  <argoneus> is there a way to easily set "go back the same way"?
15:43:24  <argoneus> so it'll automatically go A->B->C->B->A
15:43:28  <argoneus> or do I have to do that manually
15:43:33  <Eddi|zuHause> no, you have to explicitly add those orders
15:43:44  <argoneus> ok :<
15:44:09  <Wolf01> if trains must travel through B to go from A to C, you could use implicit orders
15:44:33  <argoneus> but then they don't stop, do they?
15:44:43  <Wolf01> to make it simple: remove the "go non stop"
15:44:46  <Eddi|zuHause> only when you say "go non-stop"
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15:45:04  <argoneus> ohh
15:45:04  <Eddi|zuHause> but it will avoid B if there is a way around
15:45:07  <Wolf01> and just put go to A, go to B
15:45:18  <argoneus> I'll just put it manually
15:45:21  <argoneus> with shared orders it's not hard anyway
15:45:48  <Eddi|zuHause> it usually gets fiddly with tram lines, which tend to have more stations
15:46:15  <argoneus> yeah
15:46:19  <argoneus> I'm still figuring how to make trams
15:46:23  <argoneus> with timetabling
15:46:25  <argoneus> and it's tedious
15:46:38  <argoneus> especially with half-tile trains
15:46:40  <argoneus> trams*
15:46:50  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. it was even more tedious back when i did it, without the ctrl+click on start date
15:47:29  <peter1138> Hmm... I wonder if depot/station pickers should stay at the current zoom level. They're already quite big.
15:47:45  <argoneus> I wish there was a way to define road vehicle spread
15:47:52  <argoneus> like signal spread
15:47:54  <peter1138> argoneus, timetables
15:47:54  <argoneus> ;_;
15:47:59  <argoneus> yes
15:48:02  <argoneus> but timetables screw up really fast
15:48:04  <argoneus> for me at least
15:52:39  <Eddi|zuHause> release the vehicles from depot one-by-one instead all at once
15:53:03  <argoneus> but when I already have a network
15:53:06  <argoneus> and I want to add one new station
15:53:12  <argoneus> then it's all fucked
15:53:13  <argoneus> :(
15:53:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. either you can estimate a time and set that manually, or you have to start filling from scratch
15:54:53  <Eddi|zuHause> but if your timetable doesn't have room for rebalancing at the end station, you're basically screwed
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15:59:14  <Pokka> it didn't like that much
15:59:22  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, the technological jumps in train fever are a bit too large... like jumping from 50km/h to 100km/h
15:59:58  <Eddi|zuHause> also, the freight wagons should probably have half speed...
16:00:34  <Japa> Is the scenario format the same as the savegame format?
16:00:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:01:15  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe in the future there will be a stripped-down heightmap based format
16:01:34  <Eddi|zuHause> which may lose a bit of precision, but you gain the ability to switch newgrfs and stuff
16:03:10  *** Pikka [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:04:48  <argoneus> guys
16:04:51  <b_jonas> is that game somehow related to tt?
16:04:53  <argoneus> when you timetable your vehicles
16:04:54  <peter1138> 2x picker sprites are giant :S
16:04:57  <argoneus> how long do you tell them to stay in depot?
16:04:58  <argoneus> er
16:05:00  <argoneus> in the main station
16:05:04  <argoneus> is 10 days short?
16:05:17  <peter1138> however long it takes them
16:05:25  <argoneus> well
16:05:27  <argoneus> I want to timetable them
16:05:33  <argoneus> and I need a way of catching up with latecomers
16:06:05  <argoneus> I'll make it like 1/4 of the total time I guess
16:06:07  <Japa> Yeah, I read about the heightmap thing, but development on that seems halted.
16:06:47  *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58__
16:07:57  <Japa> By the looks of things, the easiest way to do what I want would be to modify Openttd itself to do it.
16:08:00  <FLHerne> b_jonas: It's pretty much the same gameplay concept, with much nicer graphics
16:08:57  <b_jonas> I see
16:09:14  <FLHerne> Or fancier ones, anyway
16:10:12  <FLHerne> The way they've managed to make track-laying work in real-3D is impressive, even if it's not very polished
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16:16:04  <andythenorth> o/
16:16:15  <Pikka> oh, there he is now
16:17:40  <andythenorth> Pikka chops
16:18:03  <Pikka> forum pm incoming
16:18:11  <andythenorth> Hmm I need real computer, this ipad thing no good
16:18:13  <Pikka> containing certain zellepins
16:18:15  <andythenorth> Biab
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16:18:21  <Pikka> bye
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16:19:38  <andythenorth> that’s better
16:19:53  <andythenorth> if our future contains typing on glass, then Tim Cook & co need to make the glass move
16:19:57  <andythenorth> I hate it
16:19:58  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26891 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 16:19:52 UTC)
16:19:59  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Add methods to retrieve flows from a FlowStatMap
16:20:20  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26892 /trunk (8 files in 4 dirs) (2014-09-21 16:20:14 UTC)
16:20:21  <DorpsGek> -Feature: Script API for retrieving planned flow
16:20:23  <andythenorth> awesome hover zellepin
16:20:54  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26893 /trunk/src (9 files in 6 dirs) (2014-09-21 16:20:48 UTC)
16:20:55  <DorpsGek> -Feature: ScriptStationList_Cargo for sorting cargo by from and via
16:20:58  <andythenorth> hover blimps
16:21:39  <Pikka> does it?
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16:25:21  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26894 /trunk/src/script/api (6 files in 3 dirs) (2014-09-21 16:25:15 UTC)
16:25:22  <DorpsGek> -Feature: Swap method for script lists
16:26:12  <argoneus> well
16:26:15  <argoneus> my trams are kinda separating now
16:26:18  <argoneus> but it takes a few months
16:26:20  <argoneus> to stabilise
16:26:27  <keoz> that's normal
16:26:29  <argoneus> if not a year or two
16:27:05  <peter1138> andythenorth, can you not use a bluetooth keyboard on theM?
16:27:16  <andythenorth> probably yes
16:27:21  <andythenorth> never thought of that
16:27:28  <keoz> problem with trams is that when they overtake each other, it's hard to reorder them properly
16:27:34  <andythenorth> what with the crippled OS, poor performance and tiny screen, I never get tablets
16:27:44  <andythenorth> afaict, they’re for reading something on the web while you do a poo
16:28:00  <keoz> lol
16:28:01  <andythenorth> which is apparently what Steve Jobs’ main requirement was for the ipad
16:28:30  <keoz> I'm not a big fan too
16:28:41  <andythenorth> the touch angle is optimised for that specific position (don’t believe me? try it - and compare to most android phones, which are optimised for standing up)
16:29:03  <keoz> Is there also a turkish toilet version ?
16:30:28  <Alberth> arguably that is the moment when people have the most time (sitting in trains, cars, buses, toilets, etc)
16:30:37  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: supposedly the tablet is meant to be lying on a table
16:30:48  <Eddi|zuHause> or lieing? i can never tell
16:35:01  <peter1138> Hmm, I suppose I could fiddle with DrawPixelInfo :S
16:35:01  <andythenorth> Pikka: so this thing about all trucks being same speed
16:35:09  <andythenorth> and generations arriving at same time

16:35:15  * andythenorth considering it
16:36:34  <Pikka> I might chicken out and have it as a parameter. universal refit as default, "TTD style" one-truck-per-cargo[class] as an option.
16:36:43  <peter1138> < giant picker sprites
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16:37:02  <argoneus> do you guys timetable trains too?
16:37:03  <Pikka> fancy, peter1138
16:37:05  <andythenorth> ho ho
16:37:10  * andythenorth likes
16:37:13  <argoneus> or is it not worth it for trains
16:37:21  <andythenorth> also small screen resolution
16:37:36  <peter1138> wondering if i should make the pickers "normal" size
16:37:46  <peter1138> andythenorth, better for screenshots
16:37:51  <andythenorth> is nice
16:38:09  <andythenorth> peter1138: got a patch?
16:38:16  <andythenorth> I can play with it when the kids are in bed
16:38:28  <andythenorth> it’s probably potato / potato
16:38:31  <Japa> FLHerne, what was that game you guys were talking about before?
16:38:32  <andythenorth> the big ones look ok
16:38:41  <andythenorth> but they don’t match the tile size
16:38:52  <peter1138> argoneus, pretty much any feature is made for trains, and just happens to work with other things :p
16:38:58  <argoneus> oh
16:38:58  <argoneus> :D
16:39:13  <peter1138> andythenorth, well the viewport is zoomed out :p
16:39:26  <FLHerne> Japa: Train Fever?
16:39:30  <andythenorth> to the ‘correct size’ :P
16:39:48  <andythenorth> peter1138: that size picker will reveal some of the poor drawing in CHIPS
16:39:51  <andythenorth> so um...smaller?
16:39:52  <andythenorth> o_O
16:39:59  <peter1138> haha
16:40:05  <peter1138> hm, i should try it with zbase
16:40:25  <andythenorth> also why drive-in stops any more?
16:40:29  <andythenorth> let’s bin those
16:40:33  <peter1138> i still use them
16:40:37  <andythenorth> me too
16:40:42  <andythenorth> for hysterical reasons
16:40:47  <peter1138> as predicted, works fine with zbase
16:40:55  <peter1138> you get the high-res sprites, not pixelated
16:41:03  <andythenorth> ship it
16:41:07  <andythenorth> what could go wrong?
16:41:09  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26895 /trunk/bin/ai/regression (12 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 16:41:03 UTC)
16:41:10  <DorpsGek> -Change: Allow for multiple independent test cases for AI API regression
16:41:31  <peter1138> i tend to use drive-in stops as terminus stops
16:41:38  <peter1138> but then i'm not using newgrfs at the momenmt
16:41:54  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE
16:42:50  <Japa> FLHerne, THANKS
16:42:57  <FLHerne> andythenorth: The drive-in stops are good for places with long layovers (for timetable keeping-up purposes)
16:43:10  <andythenorth> Pikka: I’m considering making all articulated Hog trucks same speed per-generation
16:43:22  <andythenorth> on any busy road, they will all travel at speed of slowest anyway
16:43:26  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Because they can be occupied by lots of vehicles, and none of them block each other
16:43:43  <andythenorth> FLHerne: drive-through has higher throughput
16:43:46  <andythenorth> coop swears it
16:44:05  <andythenorth> also introducing all trucks in same year for same reason of speed
16:44:37  <FLHerne> andythenorth: They have better throughput, but less waiting capacity, and waiting vehicles obstruct the ones behind
16:44:43  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26896 /trunk/bin/ai/regression (6 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 16:44:37 UTC)
16:44:44  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Move AIStationList* tests to separate test case
16:45:09  <Pikka> introducing in the same year, or as near as possible with randomness, makes sense
16:45:21  <FLHerne> Which makes drive-in better for places timetabled for 5-day-odd waits to keep things reliably on time
16:45:33  <andythenorth> I don’t like the auto-replace faff of all vehicles upgrading at once
16:45:43  <andythenorth> but otoh, the speed thing is relevant to gameplay
16:45:57  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26897 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/tst_stationlist (3 files) (2014-09-21 16:45:51 UTC)
16:45:58  <DorpsGek> -Change: Add some more AIStationList autotests
16:46:16  <Pikka> upgrade by group, then, or only when old. you don't *have* to replace everything ASAP
16:46:19  <fonsinchen> So, there you go. AI and GS API for cargodist.
16:46:19  <Pikka> player choice and all that.
16:46:25  <fonsinchen> If anything is missing, let me know.
16:46:39  <Pikka> thanks fonsinchen :D
16:47:58  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- that could have looked a bit better if the station snapped to existing rails :/
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16:59:16  <peter1138> Hmm... £19.99
16:59:48  <peter1138> Linux native... oh no...
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17:10:28  <andythenorth> meh
17:10:29  <andythenorth> roadtypes
17:10:47  * andythenorth puts that idea down
17:10:52  <andythenorth> wrong end of a poo-covered stick
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17:22:56  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26898 trunk/bin/ai/regression/ (2014-09-21 17:22:50 UTC)
17:22:57  <DorpsGek> -Fix: hopefully make regression under MinGW work again
17:27:44  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26899 /trunk/src (viewport.cpp viewport_func.h) (2014-09-21 17:27:37 UTC)
17:27:45  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: reduce the amount of tiles that needs to be drawn by taking the height of tiles into account instead of drawing way too many (ic111)
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17:29:54  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26900 /trunk/src (3 files) (2014-09-21 17:29:48 UTC)
17:29:55  <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish: dirty the appropriate area around map edges when terraforming there to prevent any artefacts from occuring (ic111)
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17:31:47  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26901 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2014-09-21 17:31:41 UTC)
17:31:48  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6120]: typo in string
17:33:01  <LordAro> Rubidium: there are some indent issues in r26900
17:35:09  <Rubidium> oh... crap
17:35:47  <Rubidium> uhmmm
17:36:02  <Rubidium> where?
17:36:23  <LordAro>
17:36:44  <LordAro> well, 84 & 85, actually
17:37:36  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26902 trunk/src/terraform_cmd.cpp (2014-09-21 17:37:30 UTC)
17:37:37  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26900): erroneous spaces instead of tabs
17:46:02  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26903 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-09-21 17:45:52 UTC)
17:46:03  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:04  <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 132 changes by Stabilitronas
17:46:05  <DorpsGek> vietnamese - 1 changes by nglekhoi
17:46:06  <DorpsGek> welsh - 5 changes by kazzie
17:52:27  <argoneus> huh
17:52:30  <argoneus> I am using 2cc trains
17:52:40  <argoneus> and I just realized that monorails (metro) can carry much more passengers than regular trains
17:52:42  <argoneus> is there a downside?
17:52:51  <argoneus> they don't seem to be that expensive compared to regular trains
17:53:53  <peter1138> they're slower, aren't they?
17:54:34  <andythenorth> limited track types?
17:54:38  * andythenorth doesn’t know
17:55:11  <argoneus> oh yeah
17:55:13  <argoneus> they aren't the fastest
17:55:17  <argoneus> but does that matter?
17:55:48  <andythenorth> only over long distances
17:56:04  <andythenorth> over short distances (in cities), total capacity per tile is more important imho
18:01:49  <peter1138> yeah, total capacity and loading speed
18:01:54  <peter1138> which is kinda the point of metro trains
18:03:13  <andythenorth> that’s how Iron Horse does it
18:03:18  <andythenorth> dunno about other sets
18:06:20  <argoneus> what the heck does this mean
18:06:25  <argoneus> "single unit metros cannot connect to anything"
18:06:29  <argoneus> that I'll have a metro without wagons..?
18:06:50  <peter1138> I guess it means they're single-unit.
18:07:00  <Pikka> and they cannot connect to anything...
18:07:04  <argoneus> does that mean they are a glorified tram?
18:07:08  <argoneus> I thought metros always had wagons
18:07:20  <Pikka> did you try it and see what happens?
18:07:26  <argoneus> I cannot add metro wagons
18:07:28  <argoneus> and it looks really weird
18:08:00  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26904 /trunk/src (smallmap_gui.cpp smallmap_gui.h) (2014-09-21 18:07:54 UTC)
18:08:01  <DorpsGek> -Fix: account for the height level for showing the seen area in the viewport (ic111)
18:08:04  <Sylf> it must be a very early metro
18:08:10  <argoneus> 1929
18:08:20  <peter1138> Yeah, that'll do it.
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18:16:22  <peter1138> hmm, i should be able to click on an implicit order to turn it into a real order
18:16:28  <peter1138> if only i knew how :p
18:20:19  <andythenorth> I should add some restrictions on what wagons can be added
18:20:19  <andythenorth> it always makes for such gameplay awesomeness
18:20:26  <peter1138> oh eys
18:20:30  <andythenorth> maybe on a dice roll
18:20:35  <peter1138> make it random
18:20:37  <peter1138> yes
18:20:38  <andythenorth> “no wagons can be added because you’re unlucky”
18:25:23  <andythenorth> can I query the player face during vehicle cb 36?
18:25:32  * andythenorth considers adding restrictions for ugly faces
18:25:51  <andythenorth> “your vehicles have reduced speed because of ugly face"
18:27:55  <frosch123> you can query the moonphase
18:28:26  <frosch123> river ships travel faster on full mon
18:29:11  <Sylf> yay wagon restriction BAD FEATURE :D
18:29:25  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26905 trunk/src/heightmap.cpp (2014-09-21 18:29:18 UTC)
18:29:26  <DorpsGek> -Change: account for the maximum map height when converting heightmaps
18:49:56  <andythenorth> also
18:50:16  <andythenorth> the freight trains in the brit roster of Iron Horse are unrealistically fast
18:50:23  <andythenorth> which I played in a few games and like
18:50:44  <andythenorth> the trucks in brit roster of Road Hog are realistically slow
18:50:59  <andythenorth> should I ‘balance’ them? :P
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18:57:21  <argoneus> I wish there was a "car adding" along with "car removal"
18:57:21  <argoneus> :(
18:57:26  <argoneus> especially for the different 2cc train lengths
18:57:35  <Pikka> slow roadvehicles and fast trains are are good
18:57:48  <Pikka> if you want to encourage people to use trains and not roadvehicles for longer distances
18:58:30  <peter1138> passengers should drop
18:58:40  <peter1138> as everyone uses private cars (which don't have to appear on the map)
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19:05:20  <Pikka> implying "population" means something other than "passenger generation" in TTD... what should passengers drop relative to? :P
19:05:40  <peter1138> dunno... year? :p
19:08:38  <andythenorth> we have a monopoly on transport
19:08:48  <andythenorth> cars are banned
19:09:23  <andythenorth> also, do I want to encourage trains and not RVs for long distance?
19:09:33  <Pikka> yes
19:09:40  <Pikka> long distance road routes are boring
19:09:48  <andythenorth> oh yes
19:09:50  <andythenorth> I remember
19:10:00  <andythenorth> you have to have 1 million trucks
19:10:33  <peter1138> When do we get Network Rail?
19:13:44  <andythenorth> 2006?
19:13:51  <andythenorth> when do you want it?
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20:13:44  <andythenorth> if Squid can manage 24 ships for 1870-2000, ranging from 20t to 1660t
20:13:58  <andythenorth> why does Road Hog need 42 trams, buses and trucks?
20:14:07  * andythenorth is puzzled
20:15:02  <planetmaker> because busses don't refit to cargo. Because trams tracks are not roads
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20:15:25  <peter1138> and nobody uses ships
20:15:40  <andythenorth> does anybody use trucks?
20:15:48  <andythenorth> buses obviously, to keep town rating up
20:15:57  <peter1138> only the americans who call wagons trucks
20:16:00  <andythenorth> so that you can demolish enough stuff to build more maglevs
20:17:04  * andythenorth considers
20:17:11  <andythenorth> 3 generations of trucks might be pointless
20:17:13  <peter1138> large map
20:17:16  <peter1138> low towns
20:17:22  <peter1138> lots of water (60%+)
20:17:29  <peter1138> cargodist on
20:17:40  <peter1138> ships are sort of useful until planes
20:17:55  <andythenorth> also infinite capacity
20:18:00  <andythenorth> so good for cargo goal GS
20:18:05  <andythenorth> no contention
20:19:20  <peter1138> until that's fixed...
20:19:30  <andythenorth> :(
20:19:33  <andythenorth> nah
20:19:35  <andythenorth> never going to happen
20:19:38  <andythenorth> it’s like roadtypes
20:20:03  <peter1138> road types is kinda pointless though
20:20:31  <andythenorth> +0.8
20:20:44  <andythenorth> still think one extra type might have something in it
20:20:48  <andythenorth> I’d use it for dirt roads
20:20:56  <andythenorth> and give giant trucks that can’t go on highway
20:21:03  <andythenorth> could do them as trains though
20:21:12  <andythenorth> railtype
20:21:21  <andythenorth> seems to be the preferred solution
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20:22:27  <argoneus> I wish actual subways were possible :(
20:22:36  <andythenorth> no you don't
20:22:48  <argoneus> i-if you say so
20:22:52  <andythenorth> it’s just a caffeine-induced halucination
20:23:06  <andythenorth> does anyone play past year 2000 anyway?
20:23:17  * andythenorth considers deleting some trucks
20:23:27  <b_jonas> andythenorth: yes
20:23:35  <andythenorth> no you don't
20:24:27  <planetmaker> lol
20:24:38  <peter1138> i do
20:24:56  <peter1138> current game is at 2143
20:24:58  <andythenorth> balls
20:25:00  <planetmaker> andythenorth, actually... not past. I started later than 2000 :P
20:25:05  <andythenorth> I’m not providing trucks until 2143 :P
20:25:29  <peter1138> i suppose i should maglev up the whole thing
20:25:30  <andythenorth> 1940s -> 1970s -> 1990s is too close for generations
20:25:31  <peter1138> but... roadsa
20:25:35  <peter1138> hover cars!
20:25:38  <andythenorth> yeah
20:25:41  <andythenorth> and hover horses
20:25:50  <andythenorth> roadgoing hoverzepellins
20:25:54  <peter1138> hover iron horses
20:25:57  * andythenorth wishes that patch had worked
20:26:08  <andythenorth> fr*sch gave me a patch for hovercraft on land
20:26:16  <andythenorth> tended to not avoid buildings
20:26:17  <argoneus> o wait what
20:26:19  <andythenorth> and then asserted
20:26:20  <argoneus> V453000 is czech
20:26:22  <argoneus> lel
20:26:32  <V453000> -> ?
20:26:37  <argoneus> why are there so many czechs in openttd
20:26:42  <andythenorth> is ‘czech’ a synonym for ‘unhinged'
20:26:51  <planetmaker> haha. You summoned the madness
20:26:51  * andythenorth finds it hard to judge, only got one data point
20:27:05  * andythenorth deletes a wookey
20:27:10  <argoneus> V453000: no I was just looking at
20:27:12  <argoneus> and 'mirin
20:27:28  <andythenorth> 1950s -> 1980s is perfectly soon enough for new trucks
20:27:30  <V453000> standard stuff :)
20:27:42  <argoneus> please tell me
20:27:46  <argoneus> how do you get rails so neatly into the city
20:27:53  <argoneus> do you raze the city or do you just build and wait for it to grow
20:27:56  <V453000> you spend a few days building it
20:27:58  <V453000> no
20:28:03  <V453000> you build tracks and fill roads to the rest
20:28:04  <V453000> done
20:28:13  <argoneus> wait
20:28:17  <argoneus> so you pre-build the city pretty much?
20:28:20  <argoneus> and then just add trains?
20:28:24  <V453000> basically
20:28:36  <V453000> I put roads, town grows there
20:28:43  <V453000> there is no real other way how to sanely grow a town
20:28:47  <V453000> you need to have control
20:28:51  <V453000> so you build everything
20:29:11  <argoneus> oh
20:29:16  <argoneus> but how do you start off?
20:29:22  <argoneus> right when the game begins, you can't really afford anything, can you
20:29:22  <FLHerne> argoneus: If you're feeling particularly control-freakish, you can forbid towns from building their own roads at all :P
20:29:24  <argoneus> to pre-build things
20:29:34  <argoneus> well
20:29:45  <argoneus> so far the worst thing I did was build vertical railways at one side of the city
20:29:48  <argoneus> so it would grow in the direction of my stations
20:30:00  <argoneus> but they seemed to dislike me
20:32:38  <argoneus> V453000: how do your first 3 years look like? you can't afford to pre-build anything and you need to make shitty stations, no?
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20:33:08  <V453000> money is irrelevant :)
20:33:12  <planetmaker> argoneus, you build a shitty money maker first and then you have no money issue to build whatever you want in whatever size
20:33:15  <planetmaker> Money is no issue
20:33:25  <peter1138> hmm, not sure about that, i only have £350,000,000
20:33:32  <planetmaker> :)
20:34:10  <peter1138> everything is too cheap :S
20:34:23  <peter1138> if only we knew how to fix that problem, heh
20:34:31  <argoneus> progressive taxing
20:34:44  <argoneus> all stations you make start belonging to an AI called "State"
20:34:48  <argoneus> after 5 years
20:36:29  <V453000> argoneus: you can start with almost any concept in a small scale with low amount of money early
20:36:30  <V453000> it is all the same
20:36:44  <V453000> what influences the speed of progress is just the costs or how much money you have
20:37:11  <V453000> I strongly believe that having high costs is simply dumb as it only makes the player wait, not make different decisions
20:37:28  <V453000> -> we even cheat money sometimes, or use planes to make money at the start of the game
20:37:50  <V453000> when I play with trains, NUTS is cheap, so you dont really need to wait for money ever
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20:46:20  <argoneus> do you prefer nuts or 2cc?
20:46:23  <argoneus> if you've tried taht
20:46:31  <argoneus> I tried 2cc a few hours ago
20:46:37  <argoneus> and there's an overwhelming amount of trains, but most are utter shit
20:46:48  * Pikka guesses V453000 prefers NUTS
20:47:00  <argoneus> well
20:47:04  <argoneus> I thought he was referring to the coop games
20:47:23  <argoneus> also, this is potentially a dangerous and personal question
20:47:29  <argoneus> but how old are the people around here +-?
20:47:41  <V453000> "are you serious?" :D
20:47:58  <planetmaker> 25 +- 10?
20:48:26  <peter1138> planetmaker haha
20:48:27  <planetmaker> 1-sigma intervall. Maybe. Maybe totally wrong guess :P
20:48:45  <peter1138> Belugas will like that ;D
20:48:52  <argoneus> well
20:49:00  <argoneus> I'd like to think that a game about trains has the age around 16
20:49:07  <argoneus> but then again everyone here seems to have a degree in mathematics
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20:49:22  <Pikka> bearing in mind that this particular game about trains is 20 years old :)
20:49:33  <peter1138> you've never seen a model railway club
20:49:59  <planetmaker> yeah, those have an interesting age characteristics, too
20:50:05  <FLHerne> argoneus: The fact that everyone here uses IRC is probably somewhat biasing things, too
20:50:13  <peter1138> Usually old, older and oldest. Plus their grandkids.
20:51:21  <FLHerne> 31A MRC has 10-18, then 60-8?
20:51:30  <FLHerne> Either in education, or retired
20:51:57  <FLHerne> Actually, there are a couple of 20-somethings, and Neil can't possibly be 60
20:52:29  <argoneus> so basically
20:52:33  <argoneus> every age plays this game
20:52:47  <argoneus> just like flight simulators and that kind of games
20:53:18  <argoneus> but really
20:53:25  <argoneus> just how large percentage of this community is czech people?
20:53:36  <argoneus> there's czech everything, stations, trains, vehicles, railroads, city names, scenarios, huh
20:53:53  * andythenorth does not have a degree in mathematics
20:53:54  <planetmaker> argoneus, there's XX everything for a shitload of countries
20:53:54  <andythenorth> not at all
20:54:56  <planetmaker> <-- does that help, argoneus ?
20:55:11  <planetmaker> ignore the top3 entries
20:55:30  <argoneus> Commercial, huh..
20:55:42  <argoneus> that's a lot of germans
20:56:39  <planetmaker> well, those basically pay the server :P
20:58:49  * andythenorth ponders
20:58:57  <andythenorth> how fast trucks and buses should be in 1920
20:59:13  <Pikka> unrealistically fast, IMO.
20:59:27  <Pikka> very slow road vehicles are boring.
20:59:39  <Supercheese> Is the U.S. lumped in with some other category, or do we really do, comparatively, that much less with OTTD?
20:59:53  <andythenorth> Pikka: I haz tram balancing problem
20:59:59  <andythenorth> trams are 35mph in 1920, or more
21:00:00  <Sylf> we don't use .us for our home connections
21:00:10  <andythenorth> trucks and buses are 35mph also
21:00:14  * andythenorth wonders what the problem is
21:00:14  <planetmaker> Supercheese, those country designations are by the address connecting to it, probably by DNS suffix. So it will be mixed in .com likely
21:00:16  <Sylf> so we're part of .com and .net and such
21:00:17  <planetmaker> and .net and .org
21:00:21  <planetmaker> yeah
21:00:24  <Supercheese> ah by .tld
21:00:34  <Supercheese> hmm
21:00:35  <planetmaker> it's not a decent geolocation thing behind those stats
21:01:08  * Rubidium wonders which country has the highest per capita
21:01:18  <planetmaker> Rubidium, probably Netherlands ;)
21:01:30  * Pikka has trams are fast, high-capacity and expensive, buses are slow, high-capacity and cheap, coaches are fast and low-capacity. no realisms allowed.
21:01:51  <andythenorth> thinking same
21:02:05  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
21:03:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> aaaand it did it again...
21:04:35  <andythenorth> Pikka: I’m down to 3 generations of bus / truck
21:04:42  <andythenorth> 35mph / 60mph / 85mph
21:04:48  <andythenorth> 1930s, 1950s, 1980s
21:04:52  <andythenorth> no futurisms here
21:05:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> what's that in real units?
21:05:06  <andythenorth> yes
21:05:17  <Pikka> those are some fast buses and trucks
21:05:30  <andythenorth> 35mph is 15m/s
21:05:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> but trucks are never allowed to go more than 90 km/h
21:05:52  <andythenorth> 'allowed'
21:05:54  <andythenorth> :)
21:06:09  <andythenorth> you should have tried a UK motorway in about 1987
21:06:18  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:06:25  <andythenorth> other Eddi has gone
21:06:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, that will show 100 on your meter when you drive along them, because yours is off by 5-10%
21:06:38  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
21:06:39  <planetmaker> nah, Estonia has twice the number of hits on OpenTTD pages compared to Netherlands :)
21:06:59  <andythenorth> UK trucks are limited to about 55mph now
21:07:04  <andythenorth> before the limiters....
21:07:07  <andythenorth> anything went
21:07:08  <Pikka> 35 to 60 is a big jump
21:07:16  <andythenorth> as long as you had the hp and didn’t get caught
21:07:34  <andythenorth> Pikka: considering 40-55-70
21:07:43  * Pikka has 5 generations of trucks. 40/45/50/60/65 mph, 1910 to 2036.
21:08:08  <andythenorth> I am trying to delete some
21:08:11  <andythenorth> 3 is plenty
21:08:13  <Pikka> buses go from 40 to 60, coaches from 55 to 70, and trams from 30 to 70.
21:08:22  <Rubidium> planetmaker: it's not the Netherlands ;)
21:08:24  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'm not involved in this in any way, but truck drivers' employers here must keep their speed recordings for about 2 years, for the police to check
21:08:34  <andythenorth> I am assuming all drivers are on amphetamine, and their bosses pay the fines
21:08:42  <Eddi|zuHause> they also check waiting times and stuff
21:08:48  <planetmaker> Rubidium, yes... at least Estonia
21:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause> bosses never pay fines
21:09:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it's always the driver who pays fines
21:11:03  <Rubidium> I got: Estonia, Czech Republic, Netherlands, 'US'-ish (everything .com, .net and unknown together), Finland, Hungary, Slovakia, Norway (last two are pretty close), Denmark, Germany, Austria, Poland
21:11:20  <Rubidium> (based on hits)
21:11:47  <Supercheese> Oh good grief more strings added
21:11:58  <peter1138> That's ok, latin's a dead language.
21:12:01  <Rubidium> if I'd remove unknown from 'US'-ish, then it's be below Norway
21:12:17  <planetmaker> yeah
21:12:33  <Eddi|zuHause> what are you measuring?
21:12:43  <Rubidium> hits per capita
21:12:45  <andythenorth> bah
21:12:51  <andythenorth> there aren’t enough RV sets around
21:13:09  <Eddi|zuHause> can't you geoip them?
21:13:11  <andythenorth> playing with other people’s labour of love shows me what I dislike about them
21:13:23  <andythenorth> Pikka: when is TruckApples coming?
21:13:34  <peter1138> what's a good tram set?
21:13:39  <Eddi|zuHause> germanrv
21:13:54  <planetmaker> dutch
21:14:02  <Wolf01> 'night all
21:14:02  <planetmaker> or japanese
21:14:07  <Pikka> I don't know, andy. Since I've done the hoverzellepins, should I switch to trucks now rather than continue with boots?
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21:14:23  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, not on bananas?
21:14:32  <Eddi|zuHause> no
21:14:38  <peter1138> well that's useless then :S
21:14:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i've complained multiple times
21:14:48  <andythenorth> Pikka: nah boots :)
21:14:55  <Eddi|zuHause> and never got a straight answer on why...
21:14:56  <andythenorth> more boots
21:15:01  <peter1138> is it an mb thing?
21:15:06  <Eddi|zuHause> almost
21:15:09  <andythenorth> then you can put out PineBoots
21:15:14  <andythenorth> and I can put out Squid 1.0.0
21:15:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Uwe is as close as MB as you're gonna get :)
21:15:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it should theoretically be found via grfcrawler
21:16:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and the link was mentioned earlier today
21:16:23  <peter1138> don't see japanese trams on bananas either
21:16:30  <peter1138> i cba with manually installing things
21:16:36  <Eddi|zuHause> are those the hiroshima trams?
21:16:42  <peter1138> people i play with are noobs anyway
21:16:45  <planetmaker> japanese? yeah
21:17:09  <planetmaker> peter1138, if you want to do freigth with trams, there's no way around heqs
21:17:10  <peter1138> Av9.8? :S
21:17:32  <Eddi|zuHause> there was talk about a UK tram set, but i don't know if that was ever a thing
21:17:52  <peter1138> BATS?
21:18:20  <Eddi|zuHause> never heard of that
21:18:31  <Supercheese> BATS has... issues
21:18:42  <Supercheese> loading speeds for one are horribly broken
21:18:51  <andythenorth> some of the sprites are being borrowed for Road Hog
21:18:53  <Pikka> Av9.8 isn't a tram set, peter1138
21:19:08  <andythenorth> it’s better than a tram set
21:19:13  <Eddi|zuHause> flying trams?
21:19:14  <andythenorth> have you deleted any more planes from it?
21:19:22  <Supercheese> Eddi|zuHause: no, Airbuses
21:19:50  <Pikka> it's down to 12 from the 60+ in Av8, I think I've probably removed enough.
21:20:10  <andythenorth> I fricking love AV9.8
21:20:15  <andythenorth> no tedious vehicle choices
21:20:29  <andythenorth> ‘choosing vehicles’ is seriously over-rated
21:20:40  <Pikka> yep
21:21:19  <Supercheese> done applying the Saint Exupéry expunge, eh?
21:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause> you're certainly climbing on the open-ended V-scale of opposing opinions :p
21:23:01  <Pikka> speaking of av9.8
21:23:06  <Pikka> I must fly
21:23:09  <Pikka> toodle pip
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21:24:32  <Eddi|zuHause> "saint-exupéry" is the austerity of engineering. like in politics, austerity is not always the best way to approach a problem
21:25:32  <Supercheese> Well, software engineering philosophy swings as a pendulum do...
21:25:38  <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes when something exists that doesn't seem to have a purpose, it may a) have a purpose that you didn't find yet, or b) needs a purpose created for it
21:25:45  *** andythenorth_ [] has joined #openttd
21:26:12  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: sometimes when something exists that doesn't seem to have a purpose, it may a) have a purpose that you didn't find yet, or b) needs a purpose created for it
21:26:37  * andythenorth_ considers upgrading states by date
21:26:52  <andythenorth_> stats *
21:27:10  <Supercheese> à la HEQS forklifts et al.?
21:27:38  <peter1138> andythenorth_, not possible
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21:27:50  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't check the BAD FEATURES thread in a while?
21:27:54  <peter1138> well, build date... yuck :p
21:28:05  <Supercheese> the BAD FEATURES thread is a BAD FORUM FEATURE
21:28:06  <peter1138> i gave you 65535 IDs to play with D:
21:28:17  <andythenorth_> yair
21:28:28  <peter1138> and then you all end up deciding that no choice is better
21:28:31  <andythenorth_> well
21:28:33  <andythenorth_> yes
21:28:34  <Supercheese> thankfully, the Ignore User function is a GOOD FEATURE and helps
21:28:59  <andythenorth_> although Iron Horse will end up using all the <16k IDs that are eligible for articulated vehicles
21:29:00  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i'm sorry i didn't max that out yet :p
21:29:14  <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: you must be close to the 16k?
21:29:26  <Eddi|zuHause> nah, about 3k or so
21:29:47  <andythenorth_> also apropos of ‘needs a purpose’ 
. GS that rewards the most diverse use of vehicles?
21:30:02  <peter1138> metro rail can't have level crossings huh
21:30:06  <andythenorth_> use every available vehicle, profitably
21:30:19  <andythenorth_> peter1138: if you’re using FooBar’s grf, there’s a parameter
21:30:39  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: most metro systems try to avoid them
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21:31:31  <argoneus> can anyone explain
21:31:35  <Eddi|zuHause> no
21:31:36  <andythenorth> I am +1 to no crossings on metros, stops the town building roads that get my buses destroyed by trains
21:31:39  <planetmaker> g'night
21:31:40  <argoneus> o-okay
21:32:28  <peter1138> pretty sure you can stop towns building level crossings completely anyway
21:32:33  <andythenorth> :o
21:32:52  <andythenorth> oh yes
21:32:56  <peter1138> environment -> towns -> towns are allowed to build level crossings
21:32:56  <andythenorth> how rare
21:32:59  <argoneus> in nuts
21:33:08  <argoneus> how do I upgrade from railway to monorail using purrs?
21:33:18  <Supercheese> convert tool I presume
21:33:20  <argoneus> do I need to replace all my tracks, then make new depots, and then replace them again?
21:33:40  <Supercheese> fairly certain you can get away with just depots, send all trains to depot
21:33:43  <planetmaker> maybe there's universal rail
21:33:45  <Supercheese> convert depot to purr
21:33:54  <Supercheese> convert all tracks to new type, don't need to purr them
21:34:04  <Supercheese> then convert trains and send them off
21:36:56  <andythenorth> hmm
21:37:10  <andythenorth> Road Hog buy menu doesn’t look so bad when split by tram / truck
21:37:30  <planetmaker> told ya ;)
21:38:26  <andythenorth> maybe I don’t delete anything yet
21:38:53  <andythenorth> 35 years is a long time in game between vehicle generations
21:40:47  <argoneus> wow what the fuck
21:40:51  <argoneus> I don't understand NUTS
21:40:59  <argoneus> can anyone explain what the numbers mean, 1/2/3?
21:41:05  <argoneus> next to the engines
21:41:12  <Supercheese> Generations...?
21:41:15  <Supercheese> Gen1, Gen2
21:41:21  <planetmaker>
21:41:22  <Supercheese> just a guess; I don't use NUTS
21:41:27  <Supercheese> there ya go, docs
21:41:54  <argoneus> yeah, I am reading that
21:41:58  <argoneus> but I have 3 BASIC engines
21:42:00  <argoneus> 1, 2, and 3
21:42:03  <argoneus> but there's no BASIC in the picture
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21:50:15  <Sylf> they're just generations
21:50:30  <Sylf> 1st gen primitive engine, 2nd etc
21:51:41  <argoneus> oh
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21:52:14  <peter1138> Meh
21:52:19  <peter1138> MB, please put your stuff on bananas :S
21:52:59  <Sylf> that would be too good
21:53:28  <argoneus> isn't this wrong? " I personally recommend to set the servicing interval for trains to days (off in percents) and setting the servicing interval value to 5 days. This makes sure that your trains will want to service just when you tell them to (given that 5 days passed since last autoreplace, but that is very short time in the game)."
21:53:35  <argoneus> won't that mean they go to depot every time they can?
21:53:59  <Sylf> you have to take that in context
21:54:12  <andythenorth> should be RV speed limits in towns :P
21:54:13  <Sylf> the author assumes you're playing with breakdowns off
21:54:21  <peter1138> andythenorth, patch it
21:54:23  <Sylf> and servicing is off too
21:54:29  <argoneus> wait
21:54:34  <Supercheese> should be A Patch for That™ somewhere
21:54:35  <argoneus> so if breakdowns are off, vehicles don't service?
21:54:38  <andythenorth> peter1138: does it need a bit?
21:54:44  <Supercheese> argoneus: there's a separate setting for that
21:54:45  <andythenorth> or is it just a tile check?
21:54:48  <Sylf> that's an option, argoneus
21:54:56  <peter1138> andythenorth, nfi
21:54:56  <andythenorth> there’s a bit for city roads already?
21:55:03  <andythenorth> shows the fancy trees and crap
21:55:05  <argoneus> ohh, I see
21:55:12  <argoneus> and autoreplacing vehicles makes vehicles go maintenance?
21:55:14  <peter1138> andythenorth, there's an owner, dunno if that's stored on the map
21:55:19  <andythenorth> also it’s probably a terrible idea :P
21:55:30  <peter1138> andythenorth, yeah, cos small towns
21:55:36  <__ln__> is this safe:
21:55:40  <Supercheese> "Disable maintenance when breakdowns are set to none", and yes autoreplace sends to depot
21:55:41  <andythenorth> also realism
21:55:47  <andythenorth> also explaining
21:55:54  <argoneus> ahh I see
21:55:54  <argoneus> thanks
21:55:56  <peter1138> andythenorth, check the town radius and be done
21:55:56  <peter1138> no
21:56:16  <Supercheese> __ln__: he'll get a parking ticket, that's not a valid parking spot
21:56:26  <andythenorth> airport town stuff is _never_ annoying :P
21:56:44  <Supercheese> my local university makes nearly 0,000 a year in parking tickets, so the school paper claims
21:56:53  <Supercheese> how that makes sense, I know not
21:56:58  <andythenorth> what’s the opposite of speedy?
21:57:01  <andythenorth> tardy?
21:57:03  <Supercheese> lentus
21:57:04  <andythenorth> sluggish?
21:57:16  <argoneus> oh nice
21:57:22  <argoneus> with CHIPS you can design your stations however you want
21:57:26  <argoneus> that's neat
21:57:36  <andythenorth> yay, a satisfied customer
21:57:40  <Sylf> :D
21:57:43  <argoneus> seems tedious though
21:57:47  <argoneus> sometimes I just like want to make station
21:57:48  <argoneus> :(
21:57:49  <andythenorth> it never lasts :(
21:57:53  <Supercheese> CHIPS is indeed neat, but there are other sets out there that act similarly
21:58:14  <andythenorth> argoneus: mostly I just pick the type of platform I want and build those
21:58:15  <Supercheese> although none match FIRS industries as perfectly, of course
21:58:29  <andythenorth> I don’t use the extra tiles except for station walking
21:58:39  <Supercheese> I'll use CHIPS blank tiles for eyecandy at times
21:58:39  <argoneus> Supercheese: IRS?
21:58:52  <Supercheese> yes, I hear they're done by the same bloke ;)
21:59:01  <andythenorth> hmm
21:59:09  <andythenorth> I could just allow all RVs to go 80mph
21:59:10  <Supercheese> well, FIRS, not your typo
21:59:17  <Supercheese> if andy was responsible for the IRS.....   ......
21:59:32  <andythenorth> but low powered vehicles would never reach top speed
21:59:33  <Sylf> still better than the current IRS
21:59:34  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE?
21:59:47  <argoneus> um
21:59:54  <argoneus> are there any nice looking railroads that go well with NUTS?
21:59:59  <argoneus> I'm sorry if this is a dumb question
22:00:12  <Sylf> NUTS already has PURR built in
22:00:12  <Supercheese> don't you have the set that has PURR already?
22:00:12  <argoneus> but NUTS has some specific railroad types, right
22:00:16  <peter1138> good night
22:00:16  <argoneus> yes
22:00:19  <Sylf> but any rails can look nice too
22:00:19  <argoneus> but the normal railroad
22:00:20  <argoneus> looks normal
22:00:23  <Sylf> swedish reals, CS rails
22:00:24  <Supercheese> oh it is integral nevermind
22:00:29  <argoneus> oh
22:00:31  <argoneus> I can install any rails
22:00:34  <argoneus> and it won't mess up PURRs?
22:00:38  <Sylf> no
22:00:48  <Supercheese> NuTracks will complain about slots, but can be made to play nice
22:00:52  <andythenorth> why is ‘max TE’ and ‘max reliability’ but just ‘speed’ ?
22:00:54  <andythenorth> in buy menu
22:01:02  <Supercheese> Hysterical raisins perhaps
22:01:10  <andythenorth> yair
22:01:14  <andythenorth> speed is not constant
22:01:23  <andythenorth> oh power was never a thing
22:01:23  <Sylf> Oh.
22:01:30  <andythenorth> RVs used to have minimal physics
22:01:37  <Sylf> I thought vehicles went from 0 to 200km/h in an instant.
22:01:52  <Sylf> Just like how they do the opposite at red lights in openttd
22:02:20  <andythenorth> antonym for ‘speedy’: ‘plodding'
22:02:28  * andythenorth writes code
22:06:47  <argoneus> uhhhh
22:06:51  <argoneus> I was just reading the wiki
22:06:58  <argoneus> and now I feel bad for asking V453etc what his favourite train set is
22:07:06  <argoneus> ;_;
22:07:26  <V453000> ETC :D
22:07:27  <V453000> ...
22:07:36  <Sylf> :P
22:07:37  *** Hazzard_ is now known as Hazzard
22:07:52  <argoneus> V453000: I didn't want to ping you
22:08:01  <argoneus> didn't know you were monitoring
22:08:47  <argoneus> what is this?
22:08:55  <argoneus> the cool ground around the industry
22:09:02  <V453000> isr
22:09:04  <V453000> stations
22:09:06  <argoneus> oh
22:09:18  <Sylf> with lots of canal tiles
22:10:30  <argoneus> and this
22:10:36  <argoneus> are those PURRs or can you color monorails?
22:10:47  <Sylf> those are PURR
22:10:53  <argoneus> I'm seeing so many things I have never seen right now
22:11:10  <andythenorth> bed
22:11:12  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
22:12:40  <V453000> argoneus: how about some yetis
22:12:52  <Sylf> V, which industry closed on you in yeti?
22:13:02  <argoneus> do I smell advertising
22:13:04  <V453000> plantation and cowpig farm
22:13:05  * argoneus sniff sniff
22:14:00  <argoneus> wait
22:14:05  <argoneus> is that actual ingame graphics?
22:14:18  <argoneus> i-it's not, right?
22:14:21  <V453000> only one way to find out
22:14:22  <V453000> is
22:14:25  *** argoneus [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
22:14:33  *** argoneus [] has joined #openttd
22:14:35  <argoneus> closed the wrong tab
22:14:58  <V453000> just get yeti from bananas and see for yourself if it is ingame or not :)
22:15:07  <argoneus> are you a graphic designer?
22:15:08  <argoneus> or what is your major
22:15:28  <V453000> I usually answer this with "I make pictures"
22:15:33  <V453000> but official thing is 3D artist yes
22:15:54  <argoneus> oh, nice
22:16:32  <argoneus> er
22:16:41  <argoneus> I guess ISR and FIRS don't work with yeti?
22:16:52  <V453000> firs not that is industries
22:16:59  <V453000> you cant have 2 industry sets together
22:17:03  <argoneus> and ISR?
22:17:03  <V453000> isr is stations, those sure do
22:17:21  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
22:17:25  <Supercheese> will be heavily pixelated in comparison, of course
22:17:38  <Supercheese> at any higher zoom
22:17:38  <argoneus> huh
22:17:59  <argoneus> how does one install this
22:18:00  <Supercheese> There is an acute lack of 32bpp stations; NML does not support stations...
22:18:18  <Sylf> just like how you installed ISR or FIRS or CHIPS
22:18:26  <argoneus> via content download :<
22:18:30  <Sylf> yes
22:18:36  <Sylf> YETI should be available
22:18:41  <argoneus> oh
22:18:48  <argoneus> I got the .tar.gz
22:18:51  <argoneus> with a strange file
22:19:19  <Sylf> you can install it too, if it's the wring tar.gz, but using the content downloader is easire and nicer
22:19:57  <argoneus> I suppose I should use zbase with this?
22:20:16  <Sylf> it's up to you.
22:20:16  <V453000> oh god no
22:20:27  <Sylf> I can't stand zbase ever, so I never use it.
22:20:41  <argoneus> I have all these cute industries
22:20:42  <V453000> there is nothing graphically worse than zbase
22:20:44  <argoneus> and then pixels everywhere
22:20:47  <argoneus> :(
22:21:03  <V453000> just dont mind it :)
22:21:18  <argoneus> do you somehow
22:21:21  <argoneus> render 3d into 2d?
22:21:23  <V453000> in other words, if you load zbase, ther wont be any extra details
22:21:30  <V453000> uhm?
22:21:37  <Supercheese> what ELSE would he do??
22:21:39  <V453000> every render is 2D image? :D
22:21:47  <argoneus> er
22:21:47  <Supercheese> paint it by hand?
22:21:59  <argoneus> fair point
22:22:09  <argoneus> I meant that you can't see the industry from the other side in the game
22:22:12  <argoneus> but you can in 3ds max or w/e
22:22:13  <argoneus> :<
22:22:20  <Supercheese> yeah, OTTD limitation
22:22:24  <Sylf> meh.   openttd thinks cowpig farm is a mine when naming a station...
22:22:37  <V453000> yes because openttd loads the sprites, not 3D model
22:22:44  <Supercheese> should just name stations directly after the industry name
22:22:44  <argoneus> so it's 2.5D
22:23:00  <V453000> it is 2D.
22:23:03  <Sylf> it's 2d
22:23:07  <Sylf> with 3d rendered sprites
22:23:34  <V453000> you could have 837D software but you would still output 2D sprites for OpenTTD
22:24:17  <Sylf> time travel and parallel world processing to render yeti?
22:25:58  <argoneus> V453000: what is your software of choice?
22:26:03  <argoneus> for 3D graphics
22:26:06  <V453000> 3ds max
22:26:15  <argoneus> I never got into that :(
22:26:20  <argoneus> 2manyviewports4me
22:26:22  <argoneus> 2manyhotkeys
22:26:32  <V453000> with one hotkey you can make 1 viewport
22:26:33  <argoneus> it's like photoshop but not retard proof
22:26:38  <V453000> you dont have to use any hotkeys :)
22:27:17  <Supercheese> I agree the 3ds max user interface is... challenging
22:27:28  <argoneus> my face when YETI actually lags my game
22:27:29  <argoneus> slightly
22:27:34  <Supercheese> I'm sure it's nice when you know what you
22:27:36  <Supercheese> are doing
22:27:49  <argoneus> V453000: where did you study if I may ask?
22:27:51  <argoneus> which uni
22:28:03  <V453000> I didnt :)
22:28:08  <argoneus> oh
22:28:17  <argoneus> I asked what major you had and you said 3D graphics
22:28:17  <argoneus> :<
22:28:17  <V453000> Supercheese: blender is faaaar worse if you are trying to switch from other programs usually :P
22:28:21  <Supercheese> 2cool4school
22:28:28  <V453000> major / job?
22:28:32  <V453000> :P
22:28:42  <argoneus> why not both
22:28:44  <argoneus> :D
22:29:01  <V453000> because czech schools are useless at that
22:29:13  <V453000> waste of time for a paper
22:30:03  <argoneus> oi
22:30:17  <argoneus> at 3d art or at being unis altogether?
22:30:31  <V453000> at any kind of graphics probably
22:30:51  <argoneus> isn't there a computer graphics at CVUT somewhere
22:31:00  <argoneus> course*
22:31:06  <Supercheese> blender is terrible too
22:31:08  <argoneus> er, I mean CTU
22:31:10  <V453000> sure, 3 years programming, then like 20 hours of learning 3D interface
22:31:22  <V453000> well spent 5 years :P
22:31:24  <argoneus> :<
22:31:27  <argoneus> well
22:31:32  <argoneus> I went to study software engineering
22:31:34  <Supercheese> the only 3D modeling program I can use is SolidWorks... :P
22:31:37  <argoneus> and so far most what I did was math and logic
22:31:48  <argoneus> which is totally useful, but I didn't find a use for it yet
22:32:03  <argoneus> I'm still waiting, it will come
22:32:33  <argoneus> I dunno
22:32:58  <V453000> well, I am quite convinced that me learning things by doing things, reading books and video tutorials from good sources, is a lot more constructive than going to school
22:33:00  <argoneus> I view uni as a sort of fail-safe to get a job, and it teaches you to be self sufficient and learn
22:33:11  <V453000> not to mention that my love to school is so huge that I would not be able to finish it regardless
22:33:16  <argoneus> haha
22:34:53  <V453000> all the administration bullshit, spending infinite amount of time trying to figure out which subject I need to have in which semester etc, which is ULTRA messy on almost every czech university, idk if in the world it is similar
22:36:07  <argoneus> hm
22:36:12  <argoneus> I'm not having that problem so far
22:36:23  <argoneus> I just go by the "recommended courses per semester"
22:36:24  <V453000> could be just our wunderbar country
22:36:30  <argoneus> (I study at CVUT)
22:36:39  <argoneus> (I'm also czech)
22:36:39  <V453000> ah cvut
22:36:46  <V453000> cvut might be a bit better yes
22:36:52  <argoneus> it's funny
22:36:56  <V453000> I was at TUL in Liberec and Muni in Brno
22:37:00  <argoneus> it's supposed to be IT-oriented
22:37:02  <V453000> cant decide where was bigger mess
22:37:03  <argoneus> (FIT CVUT)
22:37:07  <argoneus> but the website and the web apps are shit
22:37:38  <V453000> Muni had everything working properly, but there was so much of everything, that you couldnt orientate in it for shit
22:37:54  <argoneus> oh
22:37:59  <V453000> and then TUL, nothing works, everything is mess, nobody knows, teachers dont know, e-system doesnt know
22:38:01  <argoneus> well, I am not familiar with other unis
22:38:08  <argoneus> only VSE in prague
22:38:14  <argoneus> and that's kinda casual
22:38:29  <V453000> right
22:38:38  <argoneus> or maybe I am just biased
22:38:47  <V453000> well I am not saying universities are a bad idea, but just for my job it is not very useful
22:38:50  <argoneus> but I know that from everyone I know, the dumb people and the people that didn't want to work, they went to VSE
22:39:07  <V453000> I totally understand that anybody with technical or other specialization needs a college degree
22:39:14  <V453000> :D
22:39:19  <argoneus> also
22:39:23  <argoneus> for some reason we frown at art students
22:39:30  <argoneus> so at least I can't frown at you
22:39:31  <argoneus> :D
22:39:36  <V453000> :)
22:39:43  <argoneus> I guess it's because
22:39:49  <argoneus> there's not that much to art at an academic level?
22:39:55  <argoneus> as in, you have to figure out most things yourself?
22:39:58  <argoneus> not sure
22:40:01  <V453000> not exactly
22:40:15  <V453000> vast majority of e.g. drawing must be learned
22:40:25  <V453000> of course you have to do it yourself but you do need a lot of theory etc
22:40:35  <argoneus> i always thought drawing was 99% practice 1% theory
22:40:51  <V453000> the problem in cz is that artists are """artists""" everything has to be super very mega "artistic"
22:41:02  <argoneus> oh I know what you mean
22:41:09  <argoneus> "it looks too bland, it must be artistic!"
22:41:13  <argoneus> ffff
22:41:49  <V453000> well yeah something along those lines
22:42:15  <V453000> if it is broken, declare it art
22:42:23  <argoneus> like that library that was supposed to look like a snot
22:42:41  <V453000> my colleague at work once completely fucked up camera animation and had the main animating building hidden behind a tree during the time of animation
22:43:01  <V453000> justified with "the best artists can hide content as mystery"
22:43:03  <V453000> gg
22:43:07  <argoneus> oh dear
22:43:12  <argoneus> I kind of envy you in a way
22:43:18  <argoneus> you already do what you like and get better at it
22:43:27  <argoneus> I still need to get tons of things punched into my head
22:43:33  <argoneus> even though I might not ever need most of it
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22:43:53  <V453000> well, in your case you probably have a clear goal like finishing school
22:43:56  <V453000> which for me doesnt exist
22:43:58  <V453000> it never ends
22:44:08  <V453000> take it this way? :p
22:44:30  <Pikkaphone> this is the song which never ends...
22:44:36  <argoneus> well, I suppose
22:44:40  <argoneus> but school is kind of.. duh
22:44:44  <argoneus> I don't really like the academics that much
22:44:51  <argoneus> I mean, I work part time along with school
22:45:02  <V453000> sure, yes
22:45:09  <Pikkaphone> hmm, I'm actually not on the wifi... I'll probably get disconnected when I connect.
22:45:14  <argoneus> and at work I can just get up and get something to drink or eat whenever I want, no one pretends to be superior to me, no one tries to tell me how bad my work is and how I'll get a bad grade
22:45:28  <argoneus> at school I just need to listen to one guy who thinks his course is the most important thing in the world
22:45:36  <argoneus> or even worse, he himself thinks it's stupid and makes jokes about it
22:45:36  <V453000> for example, I work as 3D person in a building project company ... the engineers just make a degree and then do the same thing for 30 years, then die
22:46:02  <V453000> lol
22:46:41  <argoneus> by the way
22:46:47  <Pikkaphone> argoneus:if people care more about what you do at school than at work. .. I'm not sure which is worse.  :)
22:46:52  <argoneus> do you need to be able to draw to do proper 3d graphics?
22:47:00  <V453000> yes and no
22:47:04  <argoneus> I mean
22:47:11  <V453000> you dont need to be able to draw to simply create stuff
22:47:17  <argoneus> drawing is a lot about understanding perspective, shading, shapes, etc
22:47:20  <V453000> but it helps a lot when you are imagining what to create
22:47:22  <argoneus> but in 3ds max you see all those
22:47:27  <argoneus> (that's what I thought at least)
22:47:30  <V453000> yes, which is true big time
22:47:42  <V453000> but still making sketches helps modeling more than you might imagine
22:47:44  <argoneus> oh
22:47:48  <argoneus> so if you are able to draw
22:47:54  <argoneus> modelling things is much less trial & error
22:47:55  <V453000> or just putting the things together in your head
22:47:58  <argoneus> and much more actual progress?
22:48:10  <V453000> I would say it differently
22:48:22  <V453000> if you can draw, you can make a good sketch and then you just model it
22:48:24  <Pikkaphone> you don't have to be able to draw *well*
22:48:42  <V453000> if you cant like me, then you just model and invent it on the fly
22:49:01  <V453000> well yeah you dont have to do anything :P but it helps at least to some degree
22:49:34  <V453000> it depedns what are you doing, too
22:49:34  <Pikkaphone> sketching is good
22:49:45  <argoneus> I like how no artist is good at drawing
22:49:47  <V453000> if you model e.g. cars, then meh, take picture, model, done
22:49:53  <V453000> if you model your own characters, it is a must
22:50:06  <argoneus> as in
22:50:06  <Pikkaphone> pretty sketching will make you more employable :p
22:50:18  <argoneus> artists always seem to hate their own work, and they seem to love criticizing work of others
22:50:18  <V453000> XD
22:50:22  <argoneus> at least from what I've seen
22:50:38  <argoneus> then again I don't move much about people who can draw more than a stick figure
22:50:42  <argoneus> around*
22:51:08  <Pikkaphone> V likes criticizing others
22:51:13  <argoneus> V453000: so you do 3D art for a living?
22:51:17  <Pikkaphone> he's a big meanie
22:51:27  <V453000> yes I do
22:51:29  <V453000> on both accounts
22:51:31  <argoneus> what do you like, even do? is it architect-ish?
22:51:42  <argoneus> or what do you model in practice
22:51:55  <V453000> as the main thing, we do 3D visualization of buildings, roads, tracks, ...
22:52:03  <argoneus> ohh
22:52:19  <argoneus> so you are the company that makes those models of how a new shopping center could look?
22:52:23  <V453000> but we also do video related things, photo related things, printing, shooting video, ...
22:52:34  <V453000> yeah, but usually our company also creates the project
22:52:44  <argoneus> oh, so you have architects etc as well?
22:52:55  <V453000> the 3D visualization is Usually just an addition to the project so the people can present it
22:52:57  <V453000> yes
22:53:13  <argoneus> oh
22:53:17  <argoneus> we two aren't that different then
22:53:23  <argoneus> you are told "make this", I am told "make this"
22:53:32  <V453000>
22:53:42  <V453000> everybody is told make this :D
22:53:45  <argoneus> ugh
22:53:47  <argoneus> all this web 2.0
22:53:54  <argoneus> I just want to navigate the website, not click tiles
22:54:07  <V453000> you navigate by clicking tiles? :D
22:54:20  <V453000> CAN DO IT WITH A HEAVENLY TOUCH SCREEN!1!11!
22:54:23  <V453000> advantages
22:54:36  <argoneus> >heavenly
22:54:42  <argoneus> that sounds like something out of a chinese cartoon
22:54:56  <V453000> well iz not :D
22:56:20  <argoneus> I still envy you :D
22:56:31  <V453000> not that much to envy
22:56:31  <argoneus> I wish I had motivation to work on personal projects and make my openttd AI finally etc
22:56:40  <V453000> people usually dont realize that graphics are just hard work :)
22:56:48  <argoneus> I usually just come home energyless and don't want to do anything
22:57:16  *** liq4 [] has joined #openttd
22:58:07  <argoneus> or rather
22:58:17  <argoneus> I am always like "when I come home I'll implement pathfinding for my AI"
22:58:32  <argoneus> and then I go to school, do math and programming, then to work, program some more, then come home "fuck this"
22:59:14  *** liq4 is now known as liq3
22:59:26  <argoneus> also
22:59:35  <argoneus> I believe you completely when you say doing graphics is not easy
22:59:52  <argoneus> anyway, good night, and sorry for shitting up this channel with my life stories :D
23:01:00  <V453000> gnight :)
23:01:40  <argoneus> waaait
23:01:45  <argoneus> do you own openttdcoop too?
23:02:06  <argoneus> just how many things are you involved in ._.
23:02:15  <argoneus> I swear, if you invade my dreams too...
23:02:38  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
23:03:23  *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:05:15  <Sylf> he doesn't own it.  he's just a big part of it.
23:07:21  <V453000> :d lol
23:07:27  <V453000> no I dont own anything
23:09:22  <V453000> I just wreck shit when I build
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23:10:48  <argoneus> I wish I was as good at making trains :<
23:10:49  <argoneus> gnight
23:10:57  *** KWKdesign [] has joined #openttd
23:11:06  <V453000> again just a matter of time to learn :)
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