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00:05:06 *** Guest62 [~George@185.43.94.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:16:06 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:24:32 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-46-133.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:39:12 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:41:31 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 00:50:16 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:57:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@88.130.174.203] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:19:35 *** DanMacK [~63f912e8@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 01:19:46 <DanMacK> Hey all 01:25:08 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 01:25:56 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 01:30:07 <peter1138> hi 01:45:53 *** DanMacK [~63f912e8@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:32:06 *** SHOTbyGUN [shotbygun@213-186-253-83.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:32:45 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:33 *** __ln__ [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-83-150-116-30.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:34:45 *** __ln__ [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-83-150-116-30.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 02:58:57 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:15:01 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@vpnx199.nemendur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:16:28 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:16:30 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 03:17:30 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 03:28:03 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:29:31 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@vpnx159.nemendur.hi.is] has joined #openttd 03:58:00 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 04:31:22 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:28 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4EB5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD413D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:35:28 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:36:04 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 05:43:06 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:54:49 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has joined #openttd 06:25:32 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:944:409:ea31:7da0] has joined #openttd 06:31:23 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 06:33:41 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:15:39 *** Extrems [borgs@modemcable204.141-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:22:31 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-5d856348.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 07:22:52 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-5d856348.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [] 07:24:04 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-5d856348.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 07:25:59 *** Extrems [borgs@modemcable204.141-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 07:30:04 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:30:28 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220149.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:48:04 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:48:07 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 07:53:39 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-4-36.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:02:48 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p57A08E2E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:03:50 <planetmaker> moin 08:04:20 <peter1138> hi 08:15:36 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:22:54 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 08:30:51 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:51:24 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:55:15 <__ln__> http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wkoQqoSuQB4/VCsFchHadgI/AAAAAAAAB-o/zcuyvq7E8F4/w449-h600-no/download.jpg 08:59:40 <peter1138> :) 09:00:19 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 09:02:08 <fjb> Moin 09:03:05 <fjb> __ln__: Obviously working perfectly. 09:05:53 <Eddi|zuHause> but maybe that's the actual point? 09:07:32 <Xaroth|Work> it's a metaphor; one side will have to give for it to work 09:07:38 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:08:32 <fjb> I think it is quite realistic, sometimes. 09:09:14 <peter1138> Shhh, don't use that word. 09:09:33 <Xaroth|Work> https://i.imgur.com/WAdABqW.jpg << idea for an oil/fuel truck grf. 09:09:50 <V453000> tanks peter1138 , will try 09:09:58 <V453000> da alignor 09:10:28 <peter1138> Xaroth|Work, that is rather weird looking... 09:10:44 <peter1138> Also, false colour. 09:10:44 <Xaroth|Work> http://www.diseno-art.com/news_content/2014/04/texaco-doodlebug/ 09:10:50 <Xaroth|Work> it's a colourized image 09:10:50 <lastmikoi> that looks weird 09:11:01 <Xaroth|Work> 6 ever built, apparently 09:14:17 <planetmaker> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik58iA4qZx4 <-- better use a gear like that than shown in that ad, __ln__ ;) 09:14:28 <planetmaker> no real motion either, but at least it looks like :P 09:16:58 <peter1138> Such torque 09:22:16 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 09:51:31 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 10:01:28 *** SHOTbyGUN [shotbygun@213-186-253-83.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:06:41 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:09:02 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:43 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 10:26:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i always wonder what must go through these designers' heads... "we need something technical. gears sound good"... "we need something dynamic. three is a very dynamic number" 10:27:32 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 10:32:16 <SHOTbyGUN> does "symmetrical" make cargodist generate passengers like double rate? 10:33:04 <planetmaker> generation is independent of distribution 10:34:09 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:35:37 <peter1138> Meh, I wanna fix up TGP again :S 10:39:18 <fjb> What is TGP? 10:39:43 <planetmaker> terrain generator 10:39:50 <planetmaker> (of openttd) 10:40:30 <fjb> Ah. What is wrong with it? 10:41:06 <peter1138> It's not OO ;) 10:41:45 <fjb> Very wrong then. 10:41:56 <peter1138> I can do "variety distribution" much better if its abstracted out so that I can have any number of heightmaps during generation. 10:42:07 <peter1138> *it's 10:42:57 <fjb> I always scare my coworkers with OO. 10:45:35 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 10:46:19 <planetmaker> variety distribution was also your addition, was it, peter1138 ? 10:47:04 <planetmaker> even when it's scewed on maps with huge aspect ratio, it's a very nice thing to give... well... variety :P 10:47:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's a very useful feature 10:47:47 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't mean its implementation is good :) 10:48:37 <V453000> if it didnt make the map 100% flat on majority of it, it would be nice 10:48:55 <planetmaker> V453000, it doesn't with the proper other settings 10:49:18 <V453000> it makes a lot more flat areas than without it 10:49:20 <planetmaker> I'd not use it, if it did 10:49:23 <peter1138> planetmaker, yes, exactly, I can do it better. 10:49:37 <planetmaker> yes, it makes some flat areas. That's the purpose 10:49:49 <peter1138> V453000, yes, that's the problem. It's crap :p 10:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: maybe just start from scratch? 10:50:12 <argoneus_> hello train people 10:50:12 <planetmaker> and re-define the meaning of variety distribution 10:51:00 <peter1138> Also I saw a tectonic simulation done in JS... wondering about porting that. 10:51:20 <peter1138> Probably horribly slow, but if JS can do it... 10:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> terrain generation doesn't have to be particularly fast 10:51:57 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a tectonic generator for Civ IV 10:51:59 <peter1138> No, which is why TGP's optimisations are weird. 10:52:19 <Eddi|zuHause> (which means python) 10:52:32 <peter1138> It also doesn't need to be hooked so closely to the map code. You can just generate a heightmap and use the heightmap importer internally... 10:52:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 10:53:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i wanted to add river generation to TGP once, but it was impractical 10:53:24 <Eddi|zuHause> because river placement is too restrictive 10:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and terraforming was weird 10:53:36 <Rubidium> peter1138: can you also make the rest of TGP then work for higher maps? ;) 10:53:50 <peter1138> Who knows, maybe :-) 10:54:02 <peter1138> TGP fails with lots of water. 10:54:30 <peter1138> When I want 67% water, I want a few big landmasses, a big ocean, and some reasonable lakes 10:54:32 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/hl/10_activate.diff <- you'll need that to test with higherlevels 10:55:04 <peter1138> Instead it you... water and small impractical islands everywhere. 10:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's what i meant with "too uniform on large scale". instead of big clumps, you get lots of small clumps 10:55:08 <peter1138> ... 10:55:10 <peter1138> Instead, you get... 10:55:45 *** argoneus_ is now known as argoneus 10:55:53 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yes. With a decent variety distribution, it's possible. Not perfect though. 10:56:32 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should start with a larger initial wiggle? 10:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> like a wave frequency that is larger than the map size 10:57:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.164.110] has joined #openttd 11:01:40 <peter1138> Other things you can do with a heightmap: treat it as a binary field with some threshold. If true, place a tree at this spot. Gives you clumps of trees you can call forests, and bare plain areas. 11:02:13 <peter1138> Well, doesn't even need to be binary, as we can have more than one tree on a tile, but still. 11:02:32 <peter1138> I'm not sure what the improved tree algorithm is. 11:02:39 <peter1138> Seems to just be random. 11:02:58 <peter1138> In fact the original algorithm already gave clumps. 11:03:10 <peter1138> So "improved" really isn't. 11:03:56 <peter1138> Is that option anything to do with generation, or does it just affect the tile loop tree process? 11:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause> never quite understood what that even does 11:04:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's just the initial generation 11:05:40 <peter1138> Grr, mobile phone tickling my speakers :( 11:14:01 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:18:46 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 11:32:39 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest110 11:32:41 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 11:38:23 *** Guest110 [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:44:50 <planetmaker> peter1138, when I want much water, an island map is something which can be very enjoyable, too 11:46:30 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-46-133.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:46:44 <peter1138> planetmaker, I mainly mean on something like a 2048x2048 map :) 11:47:01 <planetmaker> :) 11:47:31 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 11:47:51 <peter1138> Still applies to normal size maps, just not so extreme. 11:47:51 <planetmaker> probably like some equal distribution over a logarithmic size scale or similar 11:49:32 <peter1138> And then TGP's sea-erosion algorithm... is only applied to the edge of the map... 11:50:31 <planetmaker> historical raisins in the tgp pie 11:50:55 <Pikka> pining for the fjords 11:51:13 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@vpnx159.nemendur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:52:29 <peter1138> Gah, stupid having ideas while I'm at work :( 11:52:47 <peter1138> http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-09/30/15/enhanced/webdr09/enhanced-buzz-wide-20110-1412105435-29.jpg :S 11:53:11 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 11:54:50 <peter1138> "I have to change players to the owner of that airport, and then un close it." < so... using a patch of some sort? 11:55:17 <planetmaker> spring patch pack. He writes it 11:55:42 <peter1138> Hmm, somehow missed that line. 11:55:52 <planetmaker> somewhat aged, desync-buggy patch pack 11:57:34 <planetmaker> however even 1.4.3 there seems to be still a desync issue at times. But I didn't get any data for that yet 11:58:26 <peter1138> Hmm, he already posted into that thread a month ago... 11:58:46 <planetmaker> it's also not exactly maintained anymore :) 11:59:52 <planetmaker> I shouldn't say "any data". But the savegames, and especially the starting savegame is missing. command log along is insufficient, I recon 12:02:04 <peter1138> Not had any problems with my server game yet. 12:02:10 <peter1138> Not using any NewGRFs though. 12:07:24 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:07:42 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 12:10:11 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:12:13 <planetmaker> I didn't see it on my servers, but on the reddit ones. So it obviously requires some special setup 12:12:23 <planetmaker> some settings which neither you nor me use 12:12:27 <peter1138> They probably have some patch :p 12:12:39 <planetmaker> supposedly not on those two servers 12:13:03 <planetmaker> it's a rare desync but it happens occasionally. Like once per day or so 12:24:43 *** NGC3982 [~kruger@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:49:07 *** Jiinxs [~Jiinxs@ti0038a400-0515.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 12:53:46 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:08:27 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 13:19:08 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 13:25:35 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:48 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:36:53 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:46:35 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 14:15:01 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:21:52 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 14:23:00 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01df20.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:23:13 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: there's nothing (anymore) that prevents you from using a large initial "wiggle" 14:26:43 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 14:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but the smoothing (or sharpening) of hill tops is probably worth an additional parameter 14:35:17 <Rubidium> well, as I understand TGP now it's just a series of waves with different amplitudes and frequencies added together 14:35:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. and then there's some weird "sine transformation" on top of that 14:35:43 <Rubidium> with a higher low frequency wave and lower high frequency wave you get smooth maps 14:36:09 <Rubidium> with lower low frequency and (especially) higher high frequency waves you get more rugged maps (more/higher peaks) 14:37:29 <Eddi|zuHause> and this sine transformation, as far as i understand, was meant to cut off the pointy hill-tops, to map them into openttd's limited height space 14:37:50 <Rubidium> hmm... yeah, it does some weird stuff 14:37:59 <Eddi|zuHause> whereas with an "alpinist" setting, you'd want the opposite effect. hills should be more pointy 14:38:15 <Rubidium> though tropic is different from arctic which are different from toyland and temperate 14:43:29 <argoneus> when the game desyncs 14:43:36 <argoneus> is it the server telling the players "YOU ARE WRONG" and kicking them? 14:44:12 <Rubidium> does it matter who tells who is wrong? 14:44:26 <argoneus> yes 14:44:31 <Rubidium> why? 14:44:32 <argoneus> the clients shouldn't be able to correct the server 14:44:42 <argoneus> see: memory editing 14:45:11 <Rubidium> well, the clients are always wrong. Whether it's the server or the client that comes to that conclusion shouldn't matter 14:45:40 <argoneus> I see servers are the opposite of restaurants 14:45:44 <argoneus> "the customer is always wrong" 14:46:48 <Rubidium> well, it doesn't say "wrong"; they come to the conclusion that they have a different view of the game state 14:46:59 <V453000> LOL 14:47:53 <planetmaker> they basically started playing different games. Thus the server says "please, then play on your own" :) 14:47:59 <blathijs> And technically, the server doesn't even care if the client is right or wrong, since it just takes (and validates) commands from the client, it doesn't allow directly modifying the game state 14:48:02 <planetmaker> very kindly :P 14:48:19 <planetmaker> psst, blathijs :) 14:48:29 <V453000> in short the server says fuck off 14:48:36 <V453000> very quickly 14:49:42 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-5d856348.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:50:01 <planetmaker> now you scared him, V453000 ! ;) 14:50:22 <argoneus> I never really understood netcode in games 14:50:26 <argoneus> especially things like prediction 14:50:30 <argoneus> or interpolation or whatever 14:50:44 <argoneus> doesn't the game have to do a full sync once in a while to figure out there's a desync? 14:50:55 <planetmaker> no 14:50:56 <argoneus> like every 10 commands say "okay, I think you have this much money" 14:51:03 <argoneus> "n-no I have 500 billion, I s-s-swear!!" 14:51:19 <planetmaker> and yes, it does these kind of checks 14:51:33 <peter1138> there's no prediction or interpolation in ottd 14:51:36 <blathijs> argoneus: Sortof, instead OpenTTD summarizes the entire gamestate into a single number and compares just that 14:51:47 <planetmaker> but it doesn't mean that the client will be updated if he disagrees. It will simply be kicked 14:51:49 <argoneus> ahh, so it's comparing a checksum 14:52:16 <blathijs> argoneus: Well, it's really the random number generator state, but it's essentially a checksum, yes 14:52:38 <argoneus> but this doesn't work with games that re-sync, does it? 14:52:55 <argoneus> since you can't reverse figure out which part is wrong from a single number 14:52:57 <argoneus> and have to resync everything 14:53:08 <planetmaker> OpenTTD does not sync. Both client and server do the *exact same thing*. they just occasionally compare what they have 14:53:32 <blathijs> argoneus: Yeah, other games use other techniques 14:53:51 <argoneus> well, it makes sense in openttd 14:54:03 <argoneus> it doesn't matter if you get desynced which is rare in this game anyway since oyu just rejoin 14:54:10 <frosch123> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/2e62a1bc0733/docs/desync.txt#l21 <- some blabla on the topic 14:54:10 <argoneus> I guess this wouldn't really work for fighting games though 14:54:24 <peter1138> any desync in ottd is a bug 14:54:45 <argoneus> but I don't understand 14:54:55 <Rubidium> argoneus: for a FPS there is a really limited game state; a few players with X, Y, Z and maybe some rotations and some flying objects. For OpenTTD you got thousands and thousands of vehicles moving around, all with their own "mind" 14:54:56 <argoneus> if I temporarily unplug my internet, shouldn't I desync? I don't receive commands from the server in time 14:55:21 <blathijs> argoneus: TCP just resends the missing packets when you plug back in 14:55:36 <argoneus> but my game was paused meanwhile, while the server was still going, no? 14:55:42 <argoneus> so if I start the commands later, I will be delayed 14:55:47 <argoneus> (well obviously I won't, but why?" 14:55:53 <blathijs> argoneus: All commands include a timestamp 14:55:57 <argoneus> ahh 14:55:57 <Rubidium> argoneus: you won't desync because of that because you are not progressing in the game while not getting the 'okay, progress to moment X' 14:55:57 <blathijs> Or rather, a tick number 14:55:59 <peter1138> the connection broke, that's a broken connection, not a desync 14:56:05 <argoneus> so my game stealthily simulates the missing link? 14:56:37 <argoneus> I haven't really ever dropped, so I am not sure if my trains suddenly go hyper speed to catch up 14:56:40 <Rubidium> also, lagging behind is not desyncing 14:56:45 <blathijs> argoneus: I think it might just assume nothing happens for a while, and then once it gets the missing info, it just updates the state as if things happened in the past? 14:57:04 <argoneus> so it just quickly simulates the game from that point forwards 14:57:12 <argoneus> until the present 14:57:25 <blathijs> Hm, I'm actually not sure about this part. I don't think the game simulation can back up 14:57:40 <Rubidium> it's simple 14:57:45 <blathijs> so that means the server needs to send updates all the time, even when nothing happens 14:57:58 <Rubidium> the server sends a message every X amount of time: you may progress to tick X 14:58:01 <blathijs> so clients now it's safe to simulate a few more ticks 14:58:04 <blathijs> right 14:58:16 <Rubidium> then the client will progress to that tick 14:58:26 <V453000> why did I read dick 14:58:27 <argoneus> so if my connection lags, my game will go more quickly for a while? 14:58:35 <argoneus> until I am at the correct tick 14:58:40 <Rubidium> yes 14:59:20 <Rubidium> the server will always send the commands that need to happen before it sends that you may progress to tick X; it will actually say all those commands need to be executed at tick X. The server itself will also only execute the command at tick X 14:59:50 <argoneus> ah 15:00:04 <Rubidium> and given TCP, the "progress to tick X" will always be received by OpenTTD *after* the commands 15:00:26 <argoneus> does TCP guarantee order sent - order received? 15:00:34 <Rubidium> yes 15:00:52 <argoneus> I still can't grasp how some games get away with UDP 15:01:06 <argoneus> though when you have 100 tick servers, it doesn't matter if the client drops one or two packets, you can just re-sync 15:01:10 <Rubidium> well... it does guarantee: order application sent == order application receives (what happens in between is essentially a black box where anything might happen) 15:01:12 <blathijs> argoneus: Probably by also sending over the game state frequently 15:01:55 <Rubidium> argoneus: the game state of those games is probably so small that is can fit within a single packet 15:02:03 <Rubidium> so it will just sent new game states 15:02:11 <argoneus> I wonder how games like left 4 dead sync 15:02:16 <Rubidium> game state missed? Too bad, just wait for the next one 15:02:18 <argoneus> must be robust netcoding 15:02:37 <Rubidium> game state received out of order? Oh, I already got a newer state... ignore that old one 15:03:04 <peter1138> argoneus, sniff the packets and find out 15:03:28 <peter1138> in that sort of game, it only matters that things are roughly in the right place at the right time. 15:03:41 <peter1138> if you estimate and predict you get it right most of the time 15:04:16 <argoneus> I guess the scope of that is beyond an irc channel explanation 15:04:17 <argoneus> :D 15:04:26 <peter1138> in a strategy game like ottd every single tiny detail must be 100% exactly the same, but because the server is effectively a master clock, well, they are the same. 15:11:29 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 15:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> <argoneus> I guess this wouldn't really work for fighting games though <-- yes, because the latency between the client telling the server "i want to do X" and the server telling the client "yes, you can do X" will quickly kill you. 15:17:12 <Eddi|zuHause> instead, the client says "ok, the server will *probably* allow me to do X" 15:17:39 <argoneus> so prediction means the client sends the command and does it because it thinks it's fine? 15:17:46 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 15:18:11 <argoneus> ohh 15:18:25 <Eddi|zuHause> and the other part of prediction is the server guessing "when the client recieves my answer, he will probably be around here" 15:20:03 <argoneus> oh 15:20:08 <argoneus> so the server has to compensate for latency too? 15:20:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 15:20:52 <peter1138> I remember original net-quake didn't do prediction. It was a horrible lag-fest. 15:21:14 <peter1138> We were also using 33k modems in those days of course. 15:23:26 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 15:28:09 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p57BD413D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:28:10 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD413D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:13 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 15:37:11 *** keoz [~keikoz@65.ip-37-59-96.eu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:39:52 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:45:50 *** keoz [~keikoz@65.ip-37-59-96.eu] has joined #openttd 15:53:57 <SHOTbyGUN> what is the purpose of the aircraft range in Aviators Aircraft Set? (mean time between failures or it gets lost or what) ? 15:54:13 <Pikka> the purpose is to be a BAD FEATURE 15:54:51 <Pikka> if you're asking how it works, you can't give planes orders to fly further than their maximum range 15:57:51 <SHOTbyGUN> perfect answer thanks 15:58:30 <planetmaker> teheh. 16:01:57 <Pinkbeast> SHOTbyGUN: Provides an extra means of differentiating vehicles, which aircraft are particularly bad at. 16:02:22 <Pikka> av9.8 solved that problem better, I think. :) 16:05:22 <Pinkbeast> I'd not say no to steam locomotives getting a water-based range (and addition of troughs, etc) but then I'm odd 16:07:18 <SHOTbyGUN> Pikka what is av9.8 ? I see it on the BaNaNas but no website / documentation, nothing 16:07:34 <Pikka> it's an aircraft set 16:07:54 <Pikka> it's basically the aircraft for pineapple aircraft, which I'll be doing in 32bpp/ez 16:08:02 <Pikka> but just with av8 graphics as placeholders for now 16:08:44 <Pikka> it has far fewer aircraft than av8, and they're fictional aircraft 16:08:56 <Pikka> so it's probably not for everyone. but for gameplay, it's good. :) 16:09:05 <Pikka> and it doesn't have limited aircraft ranges. :) 16:09:05 <SHOTbyGUN> ok :o 16:11:46 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:12:12 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:55 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 16:18:11 <Pikka> as far as openttd goes, there's no difference between "no" and "should be zero" in this list -> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/Trains , right? 16:18:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. "should be 0" means "might be implemented at some point" 16:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> meaning "legacy newgrfs will break/show unwanted effects if non-zero" 16:29:20 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 16:30:27 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:31:52 *** Ttech [~ttech@00014919.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Este é o fim.] 16:32:44 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has joined #openttd 16:34:00 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:38:31 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:41:22 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: http://rbijker.net/openttd/with_sine.png vs http://rbijker.net/openttd/without_sine.png (both with same seed and settings) 16:41:47 <Rubidium> only due to the different landscape the towns will be in a different location 16:43:06 <Rubidium> to me the "with sine" gives more height to me map 16:43:56 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:43:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:44:30 <Rubidium> but more rugged edges and less flat planes can be seen without the sine 16:45:15 <Rubidium> although variety distribution is messing about with sines and such too 16:46:59 *** Ttech [~ttech@00014919.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:51:33 <Eddi|zuHause> difficult to see the differences 16:53:08 <peter1138> turn off VD. nobody wants VD. 16:57:45 * peter1138 ponders deleting his full gopher archive. 16:57:51 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:59:32 <Rubidium> you still use port 70? 17:01:10 <argoneus> wait 17:01:13 <argoneus> is variety distribution bad? 17:02:20 <Eddi|zuHause> no 17:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause> just terrible 17:02:33 <argoneus> isn't bad a subset of terrible 17:02:39 <argoneus> er, the other way around 17:02:41 <Eddi|zuHause> when you don't use square maps 17:03:36 <Rubidium> why? 17:04:31 <Eddi|zuHause> it squishes everything 17:04:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so you get long stretched mountains along the longer side 17:04:56 <Rubidium> ah 17:05:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and no mountains that cross along the shorter side 17:05:26 <argoneus> someone should just make a button 17:05:33 <argoneus> "generate good, interesting map" 17:05:36 <Sylf> variety distribution just give patches of flat land, and some people think it makes the map too flat. 17:05:38 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 17:06:00 <Sylf> but other people love to have those patches of flat lands 17:06:18 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: might that be what the MHL patch for that function is about? 17:06:24 <peter1138> VD was only tested with mostly square maps. 17:06:25 <V453000> copypaste everything to flat terrain 17:06:28 <V453000> great game, much creativity 17:06:43 <peter1138> bah, where's my perlin patches 17:06:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no idea 17:07:05 <Rubidium> nah, it does totally remove variety 17:08:28 <FLHerne> I tried using my diamond-square implementation to generate heightmaps with different parameters, but it doesn't really work for OTTD :-( 17:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: proper "alpinist" may need cliffs and stuff, otherwise most terrain effects get squashed by the "make the mountain smooth enough for 1 heightlevel change per tile" function 17:09:06 <FLHerne> Good for interesting continent/coastline shapes, but too uniform to do nice mountains 17:09:33 <argoneus> importing dwarf fortress maps into openttd when 17:09:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: which may be what the "i can't get mountains up to 255" be about 17:11:30 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: not really; MHL limits the max height based on MapLogX and MapLogY and some other things 17:11:33 <peter1138> Hmm, found it. 17:11:39 <peter1138> in "trunk2" obviously 17:12:16 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pye3rjafc 17:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: well, "trunk_clean" is obviously a big lie :p 17:13:18 <argoneus> when the map reaches end year, it restarts the same map or generates a new one? 17:18:29 <Jiinxs> In theory, when I select that they are gonna replace a vehicle they should drive to a depot and get replace, even is the car is not "old"? 17:19:08 <argoneus> Jiinxs: I think at the end of their service interval 17:19:09 <argoneus> they go replace 17:19:23 <Jiinxs> okey 17:20:36 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 4096/48 17:20:36 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 85.3333333333 17:20:54 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound quite right 17:21:00 <Eddi|zuHause> am i misunderstanding stuff? 17:26:54 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host116-238-dynamic.248-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:27:03 <Wolf01> hello o/ 17:36:46 <__ln__> salve Wolf01, come sta? 17:37:13 <Wolf01> tired, and you? 17:37:47 <__ln__> non c'Ú male 17:39:47 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:28 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 17:45:46 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18477.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:45:54 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26944 /trunk/src/lang (czech.txt spanish.txt) (2014-10-01 17:45:44 UTC) 17:45:55 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:56 <DorpsGek> czech - 74 changes by djst 17:45:57 <DorpsGek> spanish - 2 changes by SilverSurferZzZ 17:48:59 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: http://rbijker.net/openttd/more_square_variety.diff <- that seems to help for me; not in all cases, e.g. 64x4096 with low variety just gets variety over the long edge, not the short one at all 17:49:24 <Rubidium> but anything with less than 4 orders and some variety should get fairly square blocks 17:50:09 <Rubidium> also fixes an issue where the first 1.5 block worth of tiles were seen as 1 block (at the northern border) 17:52:44 <peter1138> bin it :p 17:59:29 <__ln__> https://twitter.com/mikko/status/517358472715710465/photo/1 18:00:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:04:44 <frosch123> __ln__: ms is actually being taken over by apple, and it will be called windows X 18:10:10 <Rubidium> that reason is just bollocks 18:10:19 <argoneus> is it possible to create my own currency in ttd? 18:10:23 <argoneus> I want to buy trains with bitcoins 18:10:35 <Rubidium> because 10 is still less than 95, 98 and 2000 18:11:25 <frosch123> Rubidium: average guy may still be confused about talking about win9 and win9x 18:11:32 <frosch123> though, who talks about win9x? :p 18:12:32 <frosch123> so, let's just hope we do not get any bug reports, that the 9x ottd version does not run on 9 18:17:42 <Supercheese> argoneus: Currency option -> Custom 18:31:25 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has joined #openttd 18:33:06 <fjb> Why using a number at all? Why not using a bright name again like Windows Vista, e.g. Windows Sun. 18:34:22 <frosch123> they are just on a mission to spread the knowledge about nonal numbers 18:36:35 <fjb> Ok, I see. Microsoft educates the world. 18:37:18 <andythenorth> o/ 18:39:35 *** NGC3982 [~kruger@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd 18:39:37 <NGC3982> Oh hai. 18:40:04 <NGC3982> 1.4.3 is as with the usual updates nice and tidy. 18:43:28 <fjb> Moin NGC3982 18:44:31 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:39 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 19:19:53 <__ln__> @calc 0/0 19:19:53 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Error: float division 19:20:12 <__ln__> DorpsGek: integer division you silly 19:21:02 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C34BD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:21:09 <andythenorth> Pikka bob lo 19:22:21 <Pikka> si 19:22:24 <Pikka> sup? 19:22:47 <andythenorth> sky 19:22:51 <andythenorth> planes 19:23:04 <andythenorth> managed to offload UKRS2? 19:23:33 <Pikka> apparently 19:23:55 <Pikka> I assume it will become the base of the BRSet episode 59 19:24:56 <Pikka> although since Leanden "knows next to nothing about coding" I won't hold my breath 19:25:04 <andythenorth> maybe can learn 19:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause> excuse me if i don't have a lot of hope that Leanden will produce anything constructive 19:25:10 <andythenorth> I know next to nothing about coding either 19:25:19 <Pikka> well 19:25:26 <Pikka> there's quite a lot of space next to nothing 19:25:41 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:49 <andythenorth> is true fact 19:25:55 <Pikka> I mean 19:25:58 <Pikka> a wide specturm 19:26:02 <Pikka> and spectrum 19:26:03 <andythenorth> will I pixels? 19:26:06 <andythenorth> been awake since 3am 19:26:08 <Pikka> of next-to-nothingness 19:26:15 <Pikka> I don't know, will you? 19:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i don't know if you followed anything else Leanden has ever started... :p 19:27:18 <Pikka> I'm aware that his diplomatic skills when dealing with collaborators are somewhat OzTransesque, Eddi|zuHause 19:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the difference is that OzTrans actually produced somewhat presentable NewGRFs 19:28:15 <Pikka> well 19:28:20 <Pikka> like I said, I won't hold my breath 19:28:33 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:28:37 <Pikka> meanwhile, I'll plod on with this NARS recode... 19:29:06 <andythenorth> \o/ 19:29:38 <andythenorth> âat last, a NARS to be proud of" 19:29:44 * andythenorth la la la 19:32:37 <Pikka> also, as far as the control cars and reversing consists go 19:32:42 <Pikka> I suppose it's not that bad a feature 19:32:53 <Pikka> but there's a significant degree to which I can't be bothered 19:36:48 <andythenorth> +1 19:37:28 <andythenorth> engine flipping? 19:38:13 <Pikka> only for switchers 19:38:31 <andythenorth> what about player flip? 19:38:38 <Pikka> yes, player flipping 19:39:19 <andythenorth> IH will probably make you build covered wagons (F units) in groups of 3 or 4 19:39:25 <andythenorth> btw 19:39:27 <andythenorth> just saying 19:39:48 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:53 <andythenorth> NARS players would hate that :) 19:40:27 <Pikka> the way I've done it is that I have an A if it's at the front of a set facing forwards, or the back of a set facing backwards, and a B otherwise. But I suppose you can't do player-flipping with your crazy 3-part vehicles. :) 19:40:29 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 19:41:29 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:944:409:ea31:7da0] has quit [Quit: .] 19:51:09 <andythenorth> nope :) 19:51:43 <andythenorth> also whoâs ever going to build a single covered wagon? 19:51:55 <andythenorth> assuming thereâs also switcher available 19:52:11 <Pikka> true 19:52:32 <andythenorth> but someone would complain :) 19:52:33 <Pikka> for the original incarnation of 10cc, I was going to build Fs as A+B 19:52:53 <frosch123> night 19:52:56 <andythenorth> bye FreeZeee 19:52:57 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01df20.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 19:52:58 <andythenorth> balls 19:53:04 <andythenorth> wrong auto-complete :P 19:53:04 <Pikka> him too 19:53:15 <Pikka> http://i.imgur.com/LtJxYVQ.png half the locos done, half to go 19:53:21 <Pikka> + the wogans 19:53:32 <andythenorth> how lovely 19:53:39 <andythenorth> do like a bit of NARS 19:53:42 <Pikka> if you like that sort of thing 19:53:47 <Pikka> which apparently you do 19:53:54 <andythenorth> apparently 19:53:59 <Eddi|zuHause> your autocomplete doesn't try the last person to speak first? 19:53:59 <andythenorth> nearly as good as canset :) 19:54:31 <Pikka> something about damned by faint praise :P 19:54:47 <andythenorth> nobody knows when Iâm serious :( 19:54:52 * andythenorth wonders why 19:55:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you were ever serious? 19:55:20 <Pikka> maybe they do, you just don't know when /they're/ serious. 19:55:30 <andythenorth> I donât even know theyâre real tbh 19:55:40 <andythenorth> hmm 19:55:48 <andythenorth> can haz drawing a curtain flat thing 19:55:53 <Pikka> How Can Our Trains Be Real If Our Pixels Aren't Real 19:55:53 <andythenorth> spose I could try that 19:56:05 <andythenorth> Deep Philosophy 19:56:14 <Pikka> the capitals make it deeper 19:56:33 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have trouble deciding what's real and what not, don't try an oculus rift :p 19:56:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Capitals make Things easier if you capitalize Nouns 19:58:13 <V453000> NO :D 19:58:53 <Eddi|zuHause> "no" is not a noun :p 20:03:36 <andythenorth> still no crocs in BNE? 20:03:52 <Pikka> only on the feet of the unfashionable 20:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "branch if not equal"? 20:05:34 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220149.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:36 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 20:07:34 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 20:08:18 <andythenorth> need to draw one of these businesses https://www.flickr.com/photos/36034969@N08/8741628785/ 20:08:47 <Pikka> so what's stopping you? 20:08:51 <andythenorth> inertia 20:09:02 <andythenorth> I have one of these to build it from https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/graphics/box_car_brit_gen_3_template.png 20:09:04 <andythenorth> so realisms 20:10:03 <andythenorth> is it bedtimes? 20:10:17 <Pikka> mebe 20:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> not even close 20:10:27 <Pikka> or it might be coffeetimes 20:10:56 <andythenorth> I have reach Peak Coffee 20:10:59 <andythenorth> it stops working 20:14:16 <Pikka> hmm 20:14:17 <Pikka> whell 20:14:19 <Pikka> whell? 20:14:21 <Pikka> well 20:14:29 <Pikka> I'm going to coffee on regardless 20:14:36 <andythenorth> I admire your resolve 20:14:47 <Pikka> is it showing? 20:15:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no use for coffee... 20:15:05 <Pikka> must be the heat 20:15:45 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 20:16:27 <andythenorth> probably the humidity 20:16:51 <andythenorth> hmm 20:17:27 <andythenorth> 3 new trucks, 2 hoverzeppelins, and a tanker for carrying wine to sea 20:17:31 <andythenorth> must be christmas soon 20:18:12 *** Jiinxs [~Jiinxs@ti0038a400-0515.bb.online.no] has quit [] 20:21:23 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:29:03 *** SHOTbyGUN [shotbygun@213-186-253-83.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:01 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 20:30:49 <argoneus> oi 20:30:52 <argoneus> there's openttd for android? 20:31:08 <FLHerne> argoneus: Pelya's unofficial port 20:31:19 <argoneus> I guess I'd need a big tablet for that though 20:31:25 <argoneus> and wirhout hotkeys it might be painful 20:32:22 <Pikka> hooray for hoverzellepins and wine tankers 20:34:16 <andythenorth> unless christmas gets cancelled 20:35:01 <andythenorth> so umm 20:35:07 <andythenorth> upgrading vehicle stats, still BAD? 20:35:40 <Pikka> I think so 20:36:00 <Pikka> the bigger the upgrade, the WORSE. and if it's not a big upgrade, it's pointless. 20:36:23 <Pikka> I can't think of any reason you'd want to do it besides realisms. 20:37:30 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 20:39:38 <andythenorth> lazy 20:39:45 <argoneus> what the hell 20:39:48 <argoneus> why does reddit have its own client 20:39:56 <andythenorth> build a train once, upgrades every 25 years when it goes to depot 20:39:57 <argoneus> pff 20:39:58 <andythenorth> ârefurb' 20:40:18 <andythenorth> magic train 20:47:27 <Sylf> reddit uses some patches like day length mod 20:49:04 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [SeaMonkey 2.29.1/20140927174756]] 20:49:34 <argoneus> oh 20:49:52 <argoneus> doesn't day length change a lot? 20:49:58 <argoneus> even things like maintenance / pay 20:52:21 <FLHerne> argoneus: Reddit client with the settings they use is nigh-impossible. But fun :P 20:52:28 <FLHerne> argoneus: #/r/openttd 20:52:37 <FLHerne> Is the IRC channel 20:52:53 <argoneus> nigh impossible? 20:53:54 <Wolf01> 'night all 20:54:00 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:54:38 <peter1138> Heh, in 20 years of using IRC, I've never seen a / in a channel name. 20:56:11 <argoneus> ^ 20:56:14 <argoneus> FLHerne: why is it hard? :< 20:57:42 <FLHerne> argoneus: Insane costs, tiny payments, slow production increases 20:57:57 <Eddi|zuHause> certainly the link parser doesn't think it's valid 20:58:25 <argoneus> oh 20:58:31 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:58:33 <FLHerne> peter1138: Seems to be a reddit thing - snoonet has quite a few channels named like that 20:59:34 <FLHerne> ^ I'm sure it did, but now I can't find any :P 21:04:18 <argoneus> ugh 21:04:21 <argoneus> I can't find a server I would like 21:04:38 <argoneus> they all have red flags for me 21:05:18 <FLHerne> argoneus: Reddit 3 is nice, or 1 is they have grfs I hate :P 21:05:36 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 21:05:36 <argoneus> FLHerne: 1 is vanilla, 3 has nopeople 21:06:33 <FLHerne> argoneus: What date is S3? It's usually fairly busy except in the 2100s 21:06:39 <argoneus> 1986 21:06:41 <argoneus> one person online 21:06:48 <FLHerne> That seems strange 21:07:22 <andythenorth> also bed time 21:07:23 <andythenorth> bye 21:07:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 21:07:27 <argoneus> b-... ok 21:10:38 <argoneus> I joined a server to see some interesting designs I could learn from 21:10:50 <argoneus> http://puu.sh/bVMMe/1dd3a08680.png this is certainly interesting 21:11:43 <FLHerne> argoneus: Please don't copy the vastly-redundant wrong-side path signals, those are hideous 21:11:57 <argoneus> FLHerne: ikr 21:12:50 <argoneus> lol 21:12:56 <argoneus> his maintenance is 10 mil pounds per year for signals only 21:13:02 <argoneus> 1 mil for railways 21:13:08 <FLHerne> AAAAA 21:13:34 <argoneus> why do these servers have such huge maps 21:13:37 <argoneus> I just want to compete with people 21:13:42 <argoneus> and fill the entire map with railroads 21:14:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18477.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:36 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p4FD6E754.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:19:57 <argoneus> FLHerne: do people play S3 then? 21:20:46 <FLHerne> argoneus: I do, when I have a couple of contiguous hours to spare and especially if it's UK grfs 21:20:53 <argoneus> FLHerne: the GRFs change? 21:20:56 <FLHerne> argoneus: It can be quite busy at times 21:21:03 <argoneus> how busy is busy? 21:21:06 <argoneus> 4+ people? 21:22:32 <FLHerne> argoneus: Several weekends there've been 8 or so people active, 3-6 is more usual 21:23:02 <argoneus> oh nice 21:23:08 <argoneus> is this in EU or US times usually? 21:23:45 <argoneus> also, why do people like NARS / UKRS? 21:23:50 <argoneus> the different length trains are killing me 21:23:58 <argoneus> it's tedious as fuck to replace trains, esp. if you need to add engines 21:24:13 <peter1138> UKRS2 is frikkin awesome 21:24:29 <peter1138> and replacing trains is hardly the main aim of the game 21:24:51 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p4FD6E754.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:24:53 <peter1138> FLHerne, ew, station spread is way too high :S 21:25:36 <FLHerne> argoneus: That's a 'lack of template-replacement' problem, not a newgrf one :P 21:25:55 <argoneus> it irks me 21:26:00 <FLHerne> There was a patch for that that was really nice to use, but buggy as hell :-( 21:26:02 <argoneus> NUTS best set ever 21:26:17 <FLHerne> argoneus: No, NUTS is tedious and ugly :P 21:26:24 <peter1138> also, yuck at opengfx+ landscape :S 21:26:38 <argoneus> NUTS is awesome 21:26:43 <argoneus> it has clear cut train types 21:26:44 <argoneus> and sizes 21:26:45 <FLHerne> peter1138: Eh? I really like that 21:26:56 <argoneus> how is NUTS tedious 21:27:05 <argoneus> it's more intuitive than vanilla 21:27:08 <peter1138> I prefer TTD graphics, so it's ... ugly :P 21:27:53 <FLHerne> argoneus: That's exactly the problem. There's always a defined vehicle for each role, and each role has a sequence of equivalent but steadily-improving models 21:28:00 <argoneus> yes 21:28:10 <argoneus> that's more fun than having different length trains 21:28:21 <argoneus> lets you think on a higher level 21:28:22 <peter1138> That's more fun *for you* than... 21:28:30 <argoneus> fun is never objective 21:28:53 <FLHerne> argoneus: So IME NUTS turns into 'buy vehicle x1 for service type x', then 'replace x1 vehicles with x2 vehicles', 'replace x2 vehicles with x3 ones' and so on 21:29:33 <peter1138> I usually just run my vehicles until they can no longer go, meanwhile buying newer models as and when. 21:30:15 <FLHerne> argoneus: There's no real need to care about slopes, because NUTS vehicles have insane TE, no real decisions to be made about which locos should replace what where - it all just feels very formulaic to me 21:30:35 <argoneus> FLHerne: I wish the UKRS trains at least had easy to see length 21:30:41 <argoneus> but some look like 1.4 tile, some 1.7 21:31:00 <argoneus> how do I even tell how long they are 21:31:12 <FLHerne> Vehicles are measured in 16ths of a tile 21:31:34 <FLHerne> The default ones are all 8/16ths long 21:34:02 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:34:03 <argoneus> and the UKRS are from like 5 to like 14? 21:36:35 <FLHerne> argoneus: Sounds about right. The Garratt is pretty long, early freight wagons are tiny 21:38:52 <peter1138> Its variety distribution for train length :p 21:39:44 <argoneus> FLHerne: server 3 looks good 21:39:46 <argoneus> but the map is way too big 21:39:53 <argoneus> it's mostly empty 21:40:13 <FLHerne> argoneus: MP maps always seem to be. No-one likes competing :-( 21:40:40 <argoneus> I just want to play and feel there are other people 21:40:40 <argoneus> :< 21:41:29 <FLHerne> argoneus: You could just play and build around other people anyway 21:41:35 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 21:41:44 <argoneus> that's not competing 21:41:50 <argoneus> that's screwing myself over 21:43:11 <peter1138> Usually when you compete someone says you're "stealing their goods" 21:43:25 <peter1138> Also, yellow places way too many signals. 21:43:28 <argoneus> I just think it would be interesting 21:43:32 <argoneus> 10 people in a 512x512 map 21:43:59 <peter1138> 2048x1024 21:44:04 <peter1138> yeah, that's kinda too big :S 21:44:06 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:44:21 <argoneus> 2048x1024 where? 21:44:26 <peter1138> S3 21:44:31 <argoneus> ah 21:44:32 <argoneus> yeah 21:44:47 <argoneus> as I said 21:44:50 <argoneus> most servers have what I want 21:44:55 <peter1138> And station spread is way too high 21:44:59 <argoneus> but it's either 1, no people 2, bad newgrf 3, map too big 21:45:08 <argoneus> yeah 21:45:12 <argoneus> people just place a train station in big city 21:45:18 <argoneus> and 1 tile stations all around the city 21:45:19 <argoneus> SKILL 21:45:36 <peter1138> Nah, this guy places a massive station outside 2 towns 21:46:02 <peter1138> Then spreads it to cover each, but doesn't understand how spread works, so places lots of small tiles everywhere, instead of just 2 corners :P 21:46:44 <argoneus> I want a server with openttdcoop level saturation 21:46:47 <argoneus> but every one for himself 21:46:48 <argoneus> :( 21:47:11 <argoneus> why is vanilla the most popular server 21:47:16 <argoneus> vanilla has so many issues 21:47:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.164.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:48:41 <peter1138> haha, i'm gonna run out of cash 21:48:50 <argoneus> what are you doing? 21:49:58 <peter1138> Yup, out of cash. 21:50:16 <argoneus> h-how 21:50:24 <peter1138> 1 short line... 21:50:47 *** shansen [~shansen@212.17.41.140] has joined #openttd 21:51:16 <argoneus> does anyone have experience with BTPRo? 21:51:19 <argoneus> and their servers 21:51:40 <SpComb> making the mistake of actually playing openttd again? 21:51:52 <argoneus> I've been playing for a while 21:53:57 <Pikka> what a silly game 21:58:37 <MTsPony> Lol pikka 22:10:01 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:13:37 <peter1138> Lol pizza 22:14:07 <peter1138> Why do people capitalize only the first letter in 'lol' as if it's a word. 22:14:34 <peter1138> Mind you there probably are people just going around saying 'lol' instead of laughing these days. 22:18:53 <MTsPony> Random fluctuation of the Shift button. 22:19:22 <peter1138> I Suppose It Could Be Worse, Like This. That Would Drive Me Up The Wall. 22:19:39 <MTsPony> That Looks So Lovely Peter One One Three Eight. 22:21:31 <peter1138> That's terrible. 22:26:20 <Pikka> I certainly go around saying lol as if it's a word 22:26:33 <Pikka> Capitalising Every Word Makes Your Philosophy Seem So Profound 22:27:01 <Pikka> Aren't You Glad Twitter Wasn't Around When You Were 16, Or However Old Jaden Smith Is These Days? 22:27:41 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 22:28:22 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Quit: That's all folks!] 22:41:49 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 22:41:55 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:43:38 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 22:57:54 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p57A08E2E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:23 *** y2000rtc [~y2000rtc@194.12.47.193] has joined #openttd 23:00:05 *** y2000rtc [~y2000rtc@194.12.47.193] has left #openttd [] 23:04:08 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 23:05:26 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and who cares about jaden smith? 23:07:45 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 23:08:16 *** shansen [~shansen@212.17.41.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:11:13 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 23:14:31 *** fjb is now known as Guest194 23:14:32 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:21:43 *** Guest194 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:24:24 *** shansen [~shansen@212.17.41.140] has joined #openttd 23:55:55 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]