Log for #openttd on 13th October 2014:
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04:25:04  <Supercheese> Hmm, Latin still shows as read-only for me in the Webtranslator
04:25:50  <Supercheese> Oh derp
04:25:54  <Supercheese> needed to logoff/logon
04:26:01  <Supercheese> Nevermind
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05:03:30  <supermop> hi
05:22:40  <Pikka> hi
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05:39:15  <Supercheese> lo
05:46:10  *** Flygon__ is now known as Flygon
05:46:22  <supermop> an airbnb houseguest just put our electric kettle on the stove
05:49:18  <supermop> took a bunch of terrace photos this morning
05:50:37  <supermop> tried to get some of the more gingerbread-y edwardian ones that are outliers but not too uncommon to be in a set
05:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause> ECoherencyWarning
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06:59:39  <planetmaker> moin
06:59:44  <Pikka> moin
06:59:50  <planetmaker> Supercheese, so latin in WT3 does work?
06:59:53  <V453000> hy
06:59:56  <Supercheese> Yes
06:59:59  <Supercheese> eints still has some issues
07:00:09  <planetmaker> yuhu. Seems I didn't destroy the database then
07:00:47  <planetmaker> what's wrong with eints?
07:06:38  <peter1138> Supercheese, probably ought not use {CHECKMARK} in that cheat window tooltip, as nothing else does.
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07:08:48  <Supercheese> Aww
07:08:55  <__ln__> i wonder if "N/A" is latin
07:09:14  <Supercheese> "Applicabilis" is in my dictionary
07:09:21  <Supercheese> "Non applicabilis"
07:09:31  <Supercheese> figured it was good enough eh
07:09:44  <__ln__> oh, then it could be.
07:10:36  <Supercheese> checkmark sign removed
07:11:33  <__ln__> "{BLACK}Nomina industriarum - preme in nomen ut center main view on industry."
07:11:39  <Supercheese> aha
07:11:44  <Supercheese> fail copypasta
07:14:07  <Supercheese> fixed
07:14:20  <__ln__> gratias
07:15:46  <Supercheese> eints still doesn't recognize Latin translation access, I think I may need to logoff/logon there too
07:15:51  <Supercheese> but... where is the log out...
07:16:44  <Supercheese> clear cookies I guess
07:18:18  <liq3> V453000: Overflows are very cool. thanks for the tip.
07:19:04  <V453000> you are welcome
07:19:42  <liq3> Also, YETI 0.0.9 relying on town pop is scary. :(
07:20:10  <V453000> why? it felt quite okay to me
07:20:20  <liq3> Oh. Scary in a good way. More challenging. :]
07:20:23  <V453000> the dependence seemed very low in fact
07:20:24  <V453000> aha
07:20:44  <V453000> well the most important news are the other bonuses/mechanics, motivating to use all kinds of industries
07:20:52  <liq3> hehe.
07:20:54  <liq3> yeh.
07:22:38  <liq3> My save was already set up for that, so I just updated YETI in it :D
07:22:48  <liq3> Not starting a new game atm.
07:23:28  <V453000> changing industries can do quite some havoc :D
07:23:45  <V453000> but well if it didnt, that much better
07:23:56  <liq3> Yeh, seems to be working fine. Tho some industries seemed to close magically.
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07:26:57  <Supercheese> Hmm, eints will not let me start new Latin translations - "access denied". New en_US translations work just fine
07:34:47  <Supercheese> seemingly clearing browser cache and cookies did not help
07:47:59  <V453000> thee shall not passeth to Latin
07:48:08  <Supercheese>  :<
07:48:44  * V453000 is finally rendering another industry =D
07:49:30  <V453000> last (tm)
07:49:52  <planetmaker> Supercheese, might be something on the eints VM itself. Will try to look later, but seems I won't have time today... our wiki server is broken. And it's mine to repair
07:49:59  <planetmaker> work work
07:51:08  <Supercheese> roger
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07:54:09  <V453000> :d render to be done in 6.5 hours
07:57:10  <Supercheese> Well then, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's... ;)
07:57:25  <V453000> wat XD
07:57:48  <Supercheese> Hmm, if you don't know the reference you wouldn't get the (bad) joke
07:57:55  <V453000> guess not :P
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09:04:35  <Rubidium> how would I calculate the average/mean deviation between the lowest and highest peak in a set of TGP amplitudes?
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09:07:51  <Rubidium> with one amplitude that's just max-of-X-samples - min-of-X-samples, and since the values are (assumed to be) randomly distributed, that'll probably give a max of, on average, 1-(1/X), so in the end something like 1-(2/X), right?
09:08:07  <Rubidium> but with two amplitudes things get fishy
09:08:11  <peter1138> Heh, I'm working on a standalone heightmap maker...
09:08:58  <Rubidium> the first amplitude gets it's value put in half of the places, and then an interpolation is done for the rest, after which the second amplitude is added
09:10:30  <Rubidium> which makes it a huge pain in the arse, especially when trying to figure out the roughness because I'd have to divide all numbers by this average "height" of the generated heightmap before knowing the actual roughness
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09:20:41  <Rubidium> ugh... it's kinda the reverse German tank problem for the one amplitude case
09:27:34  <peter1138> heightmaps are deceiving.
09:30:32  <Rubidium> why?
09:31:49  <peter1138> What looks interesting in an image doesn't translate to an interesting map.
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10:08:45  <planetmaker> Rubidium, you need to get a 2D fourier trafo of the image really to assess the bumpyness
10:09:26  <planetmaker> one could actually invert that process :D
10:09:50  <Rubidium> planetmaker: but I'm not working on an image
10:10:35  <Rubidium> I basically want to get some sort of "statistics" on the average bumpyness given a set of amplitudes and the mess that OpenTTD does with it while generating the heightmap
10:11:11  <Rubidium> so I can attempt to create a function for generating amplitudes that extend well with higher heights
10:11:22  <Rubidium> instead of having to fiddle with tens of sets of amplitudes
10:15:18  <Rubidium> I now kinda get (as seen from 1x1 "frequency" to 64x64)
10:16:01  <Rubidium> it's more or less the cumulative distribution function (though in reverse to normal)
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10:18:03  <Rubidium> <- the distribution per "frequency"
10:18:27  <Rubidium> although, where frequency is said in TGP it looks more like wavelength
10:20:02  <planetmaker> Rubidium our map is nothing different than an image, just the format in memory is different. The byte array for height could be treated as such or transformed into one.
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10:20:33  <Rubidium> planetmaker: but I can't generate an *average* map
10:20:42  <Pikkaphone> do you want a jellybaby?
10:21:20  <Pikkaphone> what's average anyway?
10:21:37  <Rubidium> I know that random messes with things a lot, so one map differs a lot from the other map and having to generate thousands of map to run that function and then average seems like a huge amount of work
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10:24:20  <Rubidium> and with that method, I'd need to run that all over again with a new set of amplitudes to "test"
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10:24:46  <liq3> anyone know what could cause trains to not load cargo at a station?
10:24:48  <Rubidium> instead of pushing them into a function to see the general behaviour
10:25:36  <Pikkaphone> I have some theories, liq3. hard to tell from here though
10:25:54  <V453000> screenshot or save helps :)
10:25:55  <Rubidium> liq3: wrong destination, wrong origin, wrong train, wrong orders, wrong ...
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10:26:40  <Pikkaphone> wrong refit? wrong trousers, grommit?
10:26:43  <liq3> No, they're in the station, with the right cars for the cargo type, the station has cargo, they have the right orders. They load 20-50% cargo and then stop.
10:27:10  <Pikkaphone> wrong orders for the cargo?
10:27:31  <planetmaker> wrong destination for the cargo
10:27:46  <Pikkaphone> ie it's cargodestined for somewhere else, yes planetmaker
10:27:48  <liq3> wrong destination?
10:27:59  <liq3> ....oh it is.
10:28:02  <liq3> why is cargodist even on.
10:28:19  <Pikkaphone> because cargodist is wonderful
10:28:39  <liq3> ty. Turning off cargodist fixed it.
10:28:57  <liq3> or at least i hope it has.
10:29:33  <planetmaker> cargodist cross-company is fun :)
10:30:02  <planetmaker>
10:30:07  <Pikkaphone> industries with built in stations are a bad feature
10:30:52  <planetmaker> actually I don't think so. It's great
10:31:10  <planetmaker> it's just missing proper infra sharing :D
10:31:26  <planetmaker> and probably adjusting income form shared cargo between companies
10:31:55  <planetmaker> 'just' :P
10:40:55  <liq3> V453000: so why does YETI food look it has a radioactive warning on it? :P
10:41:03  <planetmaker> hm, fftw meanwhile is gpl. good :)
10:41:27  <V453000> where did you see yeti food? :D
10:41:33  <liq3> well, the barrels.
10:41:37  <liq3> on the trains. :D
10:41:44  <planetmaker> maybe it's uranium and not food?
10:41:49  <liq3> lol.
10:41:49  <V453000> which train are you using?
10:41:53  <liq3> NUTS
10:42:01  <V453000> that is train set not train :P
10:42:05  <V453000> the wagons differ majorly
10:42:08  <liq3> universal rail wagon.
10:42:08  <V453000> ah the rail?
10:42:11  <V453000> ......
10:42:19  <V453000> yeah
10:42:45  <V453000> well, it is just a general label on the food can :D
10:42:48  <liq3> Here I thought it might have been intentional the YETIs are eating toxic 'food' :D
10:43:09  <V453000> :d
10:43:18  <V453000> NUTS was made a long time before YETI
10:43:24  <liq3> I can just imagine what sort of monsters they must be to eat toxic waste or something.
10:43:33  <liq3> yeh.
10:43:55  <V453000> well yeh, that suggests no link between appearance of food and YETI :P
10:43:58  <liq3> can you play YETI with anything besides NUTS?
10:44:08  <V453000> you can but it wont look as nice probably
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10:55:25  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'd settle for an "infra sharing light" where you can join your station to another company's station, and they share cargo, but you can't drive on their rails
10:56:24  <Eddi|zuHause> (this opens up a whole new "he steals my cargo" problem, though)
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10:59:25  <peter1138> Subsidiaries!
10:59:59  <Pikka>  !kick peter1138
11:00:08  <Pikka> such filthy language
11:00:20  <peter1138> NewBridges!
11:00:38  <Pikka> New(air)Ports, you mean
11:00:54  <Pikka> RoadTypes and
11:01:30  <Pikka> signalsintunnels?
11:02:01  <peter1138> z-layers
11:02:18  <Pikka> signals on subsidiarybridges
11:02:41  <peter1138> signals on subsidiarystationcustombridgeheads
11:02:43  <Pikka> bridges over stations, over houses, over airports, over stations
11:02:51  <Pikka> over horses
11:03:01  <Pikka> over ovens
11:06:28  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes, that would be definitely a possible light version. Which also doesn't change anything how track sharing could be done
11:07:24  <planetmaker> and then we turn on the oven. It's a sintering oven... 1500°C is nice and cozy
11:07:42  <planetmaker> but the signal then is always red
11:07:49  <V453000> bridges over cc_oversized?
11:08:02  <V453000> might not be as automatic as it seems :P
11:08:13  <V453000> huge_ass_tunnels_for_oversized_sprites
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11:10:11  <peter1138> Massive tunnels for V453000's massive loads
11:13:34  <V453000> .
11:13:58  <V453000> peter1138 has any experience with creating titles for porn movies?
11:15:36  <^Spike^> somehow i don't know if i should regret opening my irc client @ work or just well laugh... :)
11:16:54  <Pikka> hmmmm
11:17:26  <V453000> dump
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11:18:22  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker, ^Spike^: any chance to bring back commit emails on the devzone?
11:21:52  <Pikka>
11:21:56  <Pikka> it's not that bad
11:22:28  <peter1138> Eww
11:22:45  <peter1138> Train is nice of course.
11:24:00  <Pikka> fabulous zbase coast sprites? and tunnels? :)
11:24:32  <Pikka> base sets are such a lot of work... there's a reason there aren't more of them.
11:24:54  <planetmaker> did we ever have commit e-mails?
11:25:29  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, i think Ammler once seet that up for me
11:25:45  <planetmaker> Pikka, V453000 I wonder whether you two could just team up for a base set. I could also offer coding
11:25:58  <planetmaker> there's enough climates for different styles, too :)
11:26:11  <Pikka> I imagine we'd have different ideas about style :P
11:26:18  <planetmaker> :)
11:26:31  <Pikka> and tbh half a baseset is still a lot of work, might as well make a whole one.
11:26:47  <Pikka> as far as "different climates" goes... I wasn't planning to differentiate :P
11:26:53  <supermop> how many total sprites?
11:26:56  <planetmaker> half a baseset is half the work :D
11:26:59  <Pikka> same houses, grass, etc. :)
11:27:11  <planetmaker> Pikka, really?
11:27:21  <planetmaker> well, sure, for starters
11:27:30  <Rubidium> why create a new base set when zbase could still be massively improved?
11:27:44  <V453000> planetmaker: I am intending to create one, I am just taking it step by step, not by direct "go create a base set"
11:28:25  <V453000> but, will be done with yeti rather soon
11:28:51  <V453000> landscape is already on the way, tracks/roads naturally follow
11:28:57  <V453000> after tracks, trains can start to happen
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11:29:11  <Pikka> that's a funny question, Rubidium :)
11:29:19  <V453000> but I cant say I am very interested in creating buildings/ships/aircraft so far
11:29:42  <Pikka> you can borrow my ships / aircraft, V
11:29:44  <Pikka> when I have some
11:29:52  <V453000> yeah, eventually :P
11:30:10  <V453000> see, planetmaker we aint need to team up, it happens itself :P
11:30:12  <Pikka> from my POV, a base set is really just the landscape
11:30:19  <V453000> I say see what future brings
11:30:26  <V453000> yeah, landscape is biggest hell
11:30:33  <Pikka> because I'm planning to make house, industry, track, vehicle etc sets
11:30:36  <V453000> aaand I have landscape sprites ready
11:30:42  <V453000> one kind of them anyway
11:30:47  <V453000> sure
11:30:55  <Pikka> so everything except the landscape is just
11:30:59  <Pikka> placeholders from grf
11:31:02  <V453000> newgrf :) yes
11:31:05  <Pikka> yes
11:31:06  <Pikka> that too
11:31:14  <planetmaker> supermop, around 7000 and whatever is in extra. With OpenGFX that's another 4300 sprites currently
11:31:15  <supermop>
11:31:29  <Pikka> I'm sure some people would just use the base set
11:31:31  <planetmaker> so overall you can calculate 10k sprites
11:31:36  <Pikka> particularly in multiplayer
11:31:44  <V453000> yeah
11:31:53  <supermop> multiplayer is best case for base sets
11:32:11  <supermop> vast majority of open servers i see are sans newgrf
11:32:24  * Pikka has some tracks done, and basic landscape geometry
11:32:32  <planetmaker> Rubidium, people always seem to want to do *their own stuff* instead of starting from something and improving that.
11:32:34  <supermop> and i get a little tired of always seeing the same towns
11:32:53  <supermop> some static grfs would help a lot
11:32:57  <^Spike^> Eddi|zuHause: we'll try to look into it just trying to think how it might've worked
11:33:07  <^Spike^> as devzone did had some needed changes and still has 1 pending aswell
11:33:30  <planetmaker> ^Spike^, Eddi|zuHause I assume it might have worked via redmine. But it won't be sent when no-one crawled the repo page on redmine
11:33:42  <planetmaker> thus enabling that via rest api from a commit hook might already solve that again
11:33:54  <V453000> I have landscape geometry + cutting mask/after effects infrastructure which creates actual sprites from it
11:33:57  <V453000> and they seem to work
11:34:01  <V453000> even tried in a grf
11:34:20  <^Spike^> :)
11:34:23  <supermop> is japan set gpl? breaking some sprites out of there is an easy base set
11:34:40  <V453000> is japan set ez/32bpp? :P
11:35:02  <V453000> ttd base set is perfect for old 8bpp, no need to change that
11:35:03  <supermop> just find whatever is the closest equivalent for a kirby paul etc
11:35:11  <planetmaker> supermop, it is. check devzone
11:35:18  <Pikka> supermop: the point of the exercise is not to make *a* baseset
11:35:29  <planetmaker> :)
11:35:30  <Pikka> it's to make the baseset we want to make
11:35:32  <supermop> haha
11:35:41  <V453000> plus that
11:36:01  <supermop> well, if the purpose is to make the greatest number of basesets with least effort
11:36:02  <supermop> ....
11:36:06  <planetmaker> supermop, just making a landscape replacement set is easier compared to making a base set. Landscape replacement could also be static really
11:36:18  <^Spike^> i just blame ehm.... i don't know... planetmaker ? :)
11:36:19  <planetmaker> if it would not include stuff which I included in ogfx+landscape. Like the objects
11:37:15  <supermop> look out for my upcoming "pink square base" comprising 10000 plain pink square sprites
11:37:17  <V453000> one base set already did aim to create something at all costs, sacrificing quality for speed in which it is done
11:37:22  <V453000> not intending to do that :P
11:37:52  <V453000> I will just continue creating my world and one day it might be large enough to convert it to a base set / OR I might just at least have the infrastructure to create a base set with less effort already
11:38:07  <V453000> it wont be too soon, true
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11:39:02  <peter1138> Pixel-art 4x baseset, do it.
11:39:29  <Pikka> imgur jpged my screenshot, boo.
11:39:30  <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder if I still have the old scaling filters...
11:39:41  <Pikka> trakzzz
11:40:08  <V453000> too black inside, otherwise ok :P
11:40:25  <supermop> don't touch the steel of that bridge with bare hands
11:40:47  <peter1138> zbase bridges are pretty bad
11:41:11  <Pikka> because they're 1x scaled. same with the signals and wires. :P
11:41:20  <peter1138> Yeah
11:41:28  <supermop> no motivation for better bridges with current spec though?
11:41:41  <Pikka> he didn't really make anything "finer". but there was a time, I seem to remember, when everyone was obsessed with what things looked like at normal zoom rather than 4x. :P
11:43:03  <supermop> Pikka: i think with ballast that dark, rails should be browner,
11:43:35  <Pikka> it's all WIP. and it's all toy trains. :P
11:43:45  <supermop> more the color of corten like a new rail sitting on the side of the tracks
11:43:55  <V453000> :)
11:44:09  <Pikka> I'm not sure EZ rail junctions can look good, btw. Unless we resurrect that old idea of railsets being able to define a sprite for each different junction ;)
11:44:36  <supermop> silver rail do evoke a certain HO set quality though
11:47:33  <supermop> Pikka: visavis houses, what "scale" do you think is practical, regardless of "scale" of other elements? or is it not worth keeping buildings consistent with each other?
11:48:19  <Pikka> I'm trying to keep things to a consistent scale... which isn't necessarily consistent with other graphics or "reality".
11:48:47  <Pikka> let me calculating, just a sec...
11:49:59  <V453000> I shit on scale on all levels :D
11:50:06  <V453000> ofc it is "somewhat" similar, but ...
11:50:08  <Pikka> yes, but you're you
11:50:12  <V453000> :D
11:50:19  <V453000> that doestn mean anything
11:50:34  <Pikka> if you say so
11:52:02  <Eddi|zuHause> <Pikka> I'm not sure EZ rail junctions can look good, btw. Unless we resurrect that old idea of railsets being able to define a sprite for each different junction ;) <-- alternatively, draw sleepers and rails in separate steps
11:52:41  <Pikka> even then, eddi. it would be simpler and nicer to just draw the whole junction. you're still going to have sleepers and rails overlapping oddly otherwise.
11:52:52  <Pikka> if you draw the whole junction you could actually model a switch, etc :D
11:52:54  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
11:53:06  <Eddi|zuHause> go ahead then :p
11:53:09  <Pikka> and there's only... I don't remember how many. 20-odd.
11:53:14  <Pikka> I worked it out last time. :P
11:53:49  <Eddi|zuHause> 2^6 different junctions, if you don't try to blend in with neighbouring tiles
11:54:07  <Pikka> which you don't, because that way madness lies
11:54:25  <peter1138> I had a patch for that.
11:54:33  <Eddi|zuHause> genious and madness are not particularly far apart :p
11:55:19  <V453000> ^
11:55:32  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a prime example for that :p
11:55:46  <V453000> iz not
11:55:53  <Eddi|zuHause> iz too.
11:56:05  <Pikka> I actually did calculate how many tiles you'd need if you blended with neighbouring tiles before, btw, because if you try to make geometrically correct diagonal track (rather than TTD narrowed diagonal track) you need to overlap the next tile
11:56:11  <peter1138>
11:56:14  <peter1138> ^ still there
11:56:24  <Pikka> I got to the high thousands before I gave up :)
11:56:37  <Pikka> excellent, peter1138 :)
11:57:03  <Pikka> someone had better make a test grf or something. I nominate V.
11:57:23  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: there was a study on the forum about how to actually model curved junctions
11:57:52  <Pikka> there was, but it was a load of rubbish :)
11:58:26  <peter1138> Simplest way is to play Train Fever.
11:58:30  <Eddi|zuHause> the idea was that you separate each edge and the center of the tile, so you assemble the tile from 5 parts. 4 of which are rotationally symmetric
11:58:55  <supermop> ok i'm off to bed, later
11:59:02  <Pikka> goodnight
11:59:06  <Eddi|zuHause> so you don't have to model all that much, the rest of the combinatorial explosion can be scripted
11:59:25  <Pikka> well, peter1138, the openttd community *is* dying, I hear. We'll all have to move to train fever eventually.
12:00:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i might port CETS to train fever in the future. if i ever find a comprehensive spec :p
12:00:41  <peter1138> I'm dying :(
12:00:52  <Pikka> must be the heat
12:01:07  <peter1138>
12:01:09  <peter1138> that thread?
12:01:13  <Eddi|zuHause> openttd has been "dying" for like 10 years now :p
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12:01:36  <Pikka> yeah but now it's *really* dying
12:02:25  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: yes. the post by ben_robbins about halfway down
12:02:30  <Pikka> 'cause we've chased out all the true visionaries. not naming any names, of course.
12:03:05  <peter1138> ACtively.
12:03:42  <Alberth> Pikka: great dudes wagon!
12:03:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you mean the dysfunctional elements?
12:04:44  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, what about the green images on the next page?
12:04:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: remember eis_os, or tron, or richk?
12:06:01  <peter1138> Hackykid
12:06:29  <peter1138> Ripping track 5 of 7 (try 4):
12:06:35  <peter1138> I guess this is never going to work :S
12:06:55  <Pikka> I believe richk got an honourable mention, yes :)
12:06:59  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i do not remember having thought much about that part
12:08:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: it may be possible that "train nerds" and "dysfunctional social interaction" have quite a lot of overlap
12:08:51  <peter1138>
12:09:21  <peter1138> Hmm, so find a way to conveniently calculate or cache that information...
12:09:31  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's the picture i was remembering
12:10:16  <Rubidium> talking about TGP; it doesn't scale well to higher heights. For higher heights you need more long wavelengths to get through the 100+ heightlevels without steep walls, but due to the way TGP is implemented (long wavelengths + large amplitudes + interpolation) you get vast rectangles where the predominant orientation is the same
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12:11:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: cubic spline interpolation instead of linear?
12:11:51  <Rubidium> mostly because the long wavelength amplitudes are needed for the massive height differences, but that leaves you with a way more rectangular map due to the fact that TGP generates a 'base' point at regular intervals (wavelength) and interpolates in between
12:12:08  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: or you just need to increase the low wavelengths to add more variation
12:13:01  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that's a bit the problem, you can't make them much higher because then you'd hit the 45 degree gradient
12:13:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: cliffs :)
12:16:12  <Rubidium> <- basically the current very rough with amplitudes for higher wavelengths (the higher wavelengths are getting a decreasing relative power in gradient)
12:16:31  <Rubidium> i.e. the higher the wavelength becomes, the smaller its input in the gradient of the mountains
12:18:31  <Rubidium> <- same settings, but without the higher wavelengths
12:22:44  <fjb> Pyramidal
12:22:59  <peter1138> That's...
12:24:54  <peter1138>
12:25:00  <Celestar> :P
12:25:09  <peter1138> No crazy heightlevels, but an externally generated heightmap.
12:25:21  <peter1138> Not enough lows :S
12:25:40  <planetmaker> looks nice. But probably too many too steep hill sides
12:26:14  <argoneus> good morning train friends
12:26:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i don't think your problem can be solved without either stretching out the distance between peaks, so you get more rolling-hills-style, or implementing cliffs so you can have gradients above 45°
12:28:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the problem is that all the fractal cruftyness that makes perlin maps look "nice" gets eaten by the processing step that makes sure there is only 1 heightlevel change between tiles
12:29:18  <fjb> But how do you build behind a cliff?
12:29:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: also, it's really painful to actually build in such areas without cliffs
12:29:52  <Eddi|zuHause> as you either have to lower or raise half a mountain to terraform something
12:32:41  <Celestar> heya Rubidium ;)
12:32:45  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: well, that's exactly what happens with alpinist_very_rough compared to no_higher_wavelengths
12:33:02  <Rubidium> but the longer wavelengths become way more visible
12:33:28  <Rubidium> moin Celestar
12:45:03  <peter1138> Quick, time to do the cliffs
12:45:14  <peter1138> Never mind not being able to see behind them...
12:45:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i don't remember which settings i used with this (ChillPP) game:,%2016.%20Sep%201922.png
12:46:53  <Eddi|zuHause> but it was a giant pain...
12:47:04  <peter1138> That does not look too fun :p
12:49:14  <Eddi|zuHause> all i know is that for the next game i used a much smoother map
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12:57:08  <Pinkbeast> Eddi|zuHause: That's a RV sort of map, really. :-/
12:58:13  <fjb> Pinkbeast: Where do you place the stations for the road vehicles?
12:58:35  <V453000> V hereby rejects your nomination Pikka
12:58:37  <Eddi|zuHause> RV-stations on slopes!
12:58:49  <Pikka> shameful display
12:59:01  <liq3> fjb: you terraform a bit?
12:59:29  <Pinkbeast> At least you've only got to find a smidge of space for them.
13:00:17  <fjb> liq3: You'd need to terraform away big parts of the towns on Eddy's map.
13:00:45  <liq3> seems like there's enough room to me
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13:02:17  *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
13:02:49  <V453000> btw Pikka which climates will NARS666 work in?
13:03:01  <Pikka> all, of course
13:03:05  <V453000> toylandz?
13:03:10  <Pikka> why not?
13:03:13  <V453000> (.
13:04:05  <V453000> ah they just change availability in climates?
13:04:29  <planetmaker> V453000, why would you need to change availability by climate for a vehicle grf?
13:04:39  <planetmaker> just forget about climate and care about cargo support. That's it
13:04:56  <V453000> well the older NARS only has some engines only in some climates
13:05:02  <planetmaker> vehicles which only support unavailable cargoes won't become available
13:05:09  *** Pulec [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:05:12  <V453000> unrelated to cargoes, non-cargo engines
13:05:13  <planetmaker> it's something you can do, of course, yes :)
13:05:28  <V453000> yes, and I am asking how is Pikka handling it in newer version :P
13:05:39  <Pikka> why would they change availability in climates? :)
13:05:50  <Pikka> sounds like a pretty bad feature to me :o
13:06:35  <V453000> e.g. GG1 wasnt in arctic, AEM-7 was not in tropic?
13:06:38  <V453000> or something like that?
13:06:45  <Pikka> terrible
13:07:01  <Pikka> who would concieve such a ridiculous notion?
13:07:28  <V453000> there was even a table on pikkawiki :P
13:07:41  <V453000> ME REMEMBERZ
13:08:01  *** Pulec [] has joined #openttd
13:08:08  <Pikka> oh well
13:08:17  <Pikka> still not as dumb as regearing
13:08:21  <V453000> XD
13:09:01  <Pikka> just wait though
13:09:12  <V453000> you can do regearing according to curren_track_type :P
13:09:19  <Pikka> there will be complaints, "regearing was what made this set special, now it feels dumbed down"
13:09:19  <V453000> nutz does that basically
13:09:31  <V453000> there will always be complaints
13:09:32  <Pikka> "I liked having to have a caboose before 1975, it was realistic"
13:09:49  <Pikka> "station refitting ate my dingo"
13:09:59  <V453000> the last one is valid :P
13:10:33  <fjb> Dingo cargo only in Australia.
13:11:15  <Pinkbeast> I quite liked guard's vans actually (modulo OTTD's lack of complete train autoreplace...)
13:11:34  <Pikka> see!
13:11:41  <Pikka> you can still build them, anyway
13:11:47  <Pikka> you just don't *have* to build them.
13:12:01  <Pinkbeast> I like to have to build them.
13:12:17  <Pikka> ok, well
13:12:24  <Pikka> *you* have to build them. that is an order.
13:12:29  <Pikka> for everyone else it's optional.
13:12:57  <V453000> xd
13:12:58  <Pinkbeast> I'm not complaining, it's not like UKRS2 went away and obviously you are going to do what you want to see in sets...
13:13:10  <Pikka> hmm
13:13:12  <Pikka> good idea
13:13:47  <Pikka> I will get rid of UKRS2 :D
13:14:03  <V453000> SABOTAGE IT
13:14:34  <Flygon> Man
13:14:43  <Flygon> Y'know, if I imagine y'all as pirates in my head
13:14:55  <Flygon> This becomes the best IRC chatroom I'm in
13:15:18  <Alberth> would it be #pirate then?
13:15:24  <Flygon> V453 goes like, "Yaaaaaaarr, sabotage the lot. The other guys'll never know what hit them!"
13:15:30  <Flygon> And Pikka is like
13:15:35  <Flygon> A Pikachu with an eyepatch
13:15:39  <Flygon> Because I'm original like that @_@
13:15:49  <Flygon> YES
13:15:52  <Flygon> I WANT TO BE A PIRATE~
13:16:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: how is this not already the best irc channel?
13:16:36  <Alberth> I think we are lacking a pirate train and pirate boats
13:16:38  <Flygon> Needs more drunk furries
13:16:49  <Flygon> ...Alberth
13:16:50  <Flygon> Pirate boats
13:16:53  <Flygon> That would be like
13:16:55  <Flygon> An awesome GRF
13:17:05  <V453000> XD
13:17:15  <V453000> Pikachu with an eyepatch XD
13:17:22  <V453000> I will never imagine Pikka differently now
13:17:45  <Pikka> differently from drunk?
13:18:11  <V453000> Y
13:18:13  <V453000> ARR
13:19:12  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Too few girls...
13:19:34  <Eddi|zuHause> girls are overr... err, wait... :p
13:20:55  <Pikka> girls are over there.
13:23:28  <fjb> Girls on the net are all fakes.
13:24:01  <Pikka> even you?
13:24:08  <argoneus> on the internet
13:24:12  <argoneus> no one knows you are a train
13:24:14  <argoneus> choo choo
13:24:43  * fjb doesn't even exist.
13:28:34  <Flygon> fjb is a combination of stray packets sent on the Internet back in 1988
13:28:40  <Flygon> Then he became a sentient lifeform :3
13:28:48  <Flygon> His name is a result of gibberish assembled into a name
13:28:57  <Flygon> His home is millions of computers worldwide
13:29:04  <Flygon> And he is here with us today
13:29:05  <Flygon> <3
13:29:25  <Flygon> argoneus: I do wonder how many M-sets fjb inhabits :B
14:01:02  <V453000> hmmm
14:01:32  <V453000> not very yeti XD
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14:05:01  * mtraceur waves
14:05:36  <mtraceur> I'm getting pretty far into a game and noticing that all of the engines in the list are no longer available for some reason
14:06:01  <mtraceur> I can still build cars, just not engines
14:06:53  <mtraceur> Wondered if anyone knew why that would happen
14:06:55  <planetmaker> you probably can build maglev still
14:07:08  <planetmaker> vehicle models will become unavailable. That's the course of normal events
14:07:13  <mtraceur> Ah.
14:07:30  <planetmaker> if you use any NewGRFs they can modify any of these aspects as they see fit
14:07:43  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27005 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-13 14:07:37 UTC)
14:07:44  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26999): variety distribution curve map scaling did one conversion to height_t too many
14:08:29  <mtraceur> planetmaker: I don't think I can build maglev...unless it's special somehow
14:09:14  <planetmaker> it's another track type. click and hold the track icon in the main toolbar
14:09:38  <mtraceur> Ah.
14:09:53  <planetmaker> what year is your game and what climate do you play?
14:11:08  <mtraceur> planetmaker: Temperate, 2028
14:12:12  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27006 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-13 14:12:06 UTC)
14:12:13  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: move getting of the amplitude to a seperate function
14:12:18  <mtraceur> OK, so I did see that there were electric engines available, so I'll build those
14:12:23  <mtraceur> Thanks :)
14:14:10  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27007 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-13 14:14:04 UTC)
14:14:11  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: allow for more frequencies (based on patch by ic111)
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14:16:26  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27008 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-13 14:16:20 UTC)
14:16:27  <DorpsGek> -Change: extrapolate the amplitudes for the large wavelengths needed for much higher maps
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14:22:54  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27009 /trunk/src (5 files in 3 dirs) (2014-10-13 14:22:48 UTC)
14:22:55  <DorpsGek> -Add: extra level of general map heightness (ChillCore)
14:23:40  <Pikka> heightnessosity
14:25:55  <V453000> :o
14:31:06  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27010 trunk/src/tile_type.h (2014-10-13 14:30:59 UTC)
14:31:07  <DorpsGek> -Feature [FS#4126]: more height levels (ic111, ChillCore, CommanderZ)
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14:59:54  <LordAro> :o
15:43:37  <Terkhen> ooh, cool
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16:26:24  * peter1138 spots a bug.
16:37:49  <V453000> is feature
16:38:34  <peter1138> *nod*
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16:50:39  <DanMacK> Hey all
16:50:56  <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth
16:50:56  <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 0 hours, 27 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <andythenorth> where is cat?
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17:12:20  <andythenorth> ou est chat?
17:12:35  <Alberth> right here?   o/
17:12:56  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
17:16:28  <Alberth> o/
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17:26:09  <planetmaker> le chat, il est... sur le chaiselongue
17:29:17  <glx> *la ;)
17:29:43  <glx> and a space between chaise and longue
17:29:46  <Rubidium> male cat?
17:29:57  <glx> female object :)
17:30:27  <Rubidium> glx: nah, was more wondering about the gender of the cat
17:30:53  <glx> well it's "le chat" or "la chatte"
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17:34:27  <planetmaker> :)
17:34:49  <planetmaker> I knew le chat. And I should have guessed the Gender of chaise longue from German :P
17:35:13  <liq3> really wish there was a hotkey for hiding trains in the "available trains" window.
17:35:14  * Rubidium just guesses gender by a trailing e in French ;)
17:35:27  <planetmaker> :)
17:35:50  <Rubidium> otherwise... plural for grammar tests ;)
17:35:57  <glx> the adjective was a hint there ;)
17:36:15  <planetmaker> I only knew 'le chat' as I visited a friend earlier who has a cat. And there of course used 'la chat' and was told that it's different in french ;)
17:38:39  <liq3> Where should I give suggestions?
17:38:58  <frosch123> do you mean toggling "show hidden", or do you mean "toggle selected engine"?
17:39:09  <liq3> I mean the "hide" button.
17:40:12  <frosch123> you can ctrl+click in the list
17:40:41  <liq3> oh really?
17:40:49  <liq3> that works. ty
17:40:52  <liq3> silly hidden hotkeys.
17:41:05  <Eddi|zuHause>  <planetmaker> I knew le chat. And I should have guessed the Gender of chaise longue from German :P <--that guess is not always accurate
17:41:27  <planetmaker> of course not. 50% chance or so :P
17:41:59  <glx> english is easier ;)
17:42:30  <Eddi|zuHause> the rule of thumb my french teacher used: "99% if it's 'beautiful' it's female, and if it's not, it's male"
17:42:44  <glx> hehe
17:43:27  <Rubidium> there must be a lot of males in France ;)
17:43:42  <Eddi|zuHause> the odd things about cats is that in german, it's a rare case of "generic femininum"
17:43:50  <Rubidium> or a lot of beautiful women
17:44:26  <Eddi|zuHause> in almost all places, if you talk about something where the gender is unknown or mixed, you use male. just not with cats
17:45:29  <glx> because it's usually cute :)
17:45:33  <fjb> The good thing about french girls is: they are beautiful. The bad thing is: they speak French.
17:45:59  <planetmaker> lool
17:46:43  <Rubidium> but the accent is so nice ;)
17:49:25  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27011 /trunk/src/lang (7 files) (2014-10-13 17:49:11 UTC)
17:49:26  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:49:27  <DorpsGek> catalan - 1 changes by juanjo
17:49:28  <DorpsGek> croatian - 15 changes by VoyagerOne
17:49:29  <DorpsGek> dutch - 28 changes by habell
17:49:30  <DorpsGek> latin - 5 changes by Supercheese
17:49:31  <DorpsGek> latvian - 50 changes by Olby
17:49:32  <DorpsGek> gaelic - 34 changes by GunChleoc
17:49:33  <DorpsGek> spanish - 2 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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17:56:38  <__ln__> le
17:59:05  <Taede> thats where scottish girls have the advantage
17:59:14  <Taede> nice accent, and its a form of english too
18:02:59  * fjb never met a scottish girl.
18:03:51  <planetmaker> kiwi are in that category, too ;)
18:07:58  <SpComb> 🐈
18:08:11  <SpComb> irssi doesn't understand it :(
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18:14:47  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
18:15:15  <Wolf01> hello
18:16:24  <peter1138> 🐱
18:16:30  <SpComb> nope
18:16:33  <peter1138> For some reason I have that glyph, but not 1F408.
18:16:37  <Wolf01> :D a kitty
18:16:53  <peter1138> But anyway it's not irssi understanding it...
18:16:56  <SpComb> is it just irssi that refuses to decode it?
18:17:14  <peter1138> irssi doesn't need to decode it.
18:17:54  <peter1138> Your terminal handles that.
18:20:25  <Alberth> (or not, in this case :p )
18:20:26  <peter1138> Well, if no font has the glyph... time for a sprite font? :D
18:21:39  <Brumi> umm
18:21:52  <Brumi> where is STR_TERRAIN_TYPE_ALPINIST supposed to show up in the game?
18:22:22  <Brumi> didn't find it by searching the source of r27001 either
18:22:35  <peter1138> SpComb,
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18:22:44  <peter1138> That font contains it.
18:23:05  <Rubidium> Brumi: it's more recent than that, but in the new game window below hilly and mountainous in the dropdown
18:24:16  <Brumi> okay
18:24:47  <Brumi> but shouldn't it be Alpine or something like that? Alpinist is the person who climbs mountains
18:26:36  <SpComb> peter1138: it's not just the font, irssi replaces it with U+1F408
18:27:59  <Alberth> you mean the rectangular picture with hex number?
18:28:26  *** Klanticus [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
18:28:26  <Alberth> that's sort of standard to show characters that are not available at your machine
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18:32:17  <peter1138> 📗📘📙
18:32:32  <peter1138> Green, blue and orange books, respectively. Allegedly.
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18:38:57  <Wolf01> mmh, it seem that the water arrived here too
18:39:51  <frosch123> climb on a mountain
18:39:54  <frosch123> or build a ship
18:40:02  <peter1138> Wolf01's ark?
18:40:25  <Wolf01> I'm in a polder
18:44:10  <Wolf01> and the nice fact, is that the wind is coming from the sea, so we'll expect the river won't help
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19:37:10  <frosch123> @calc 1050/9*21
19:37:10  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 2450
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19:58:37  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:42:53  <peter1138> urgh, rgb recolours was nearly 2 years ago
20:43:30  <peter1138> Predates SSE blitters ;(
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21:43:50  <Leanden> i tried to connect through the forums and it says "banned"
21:43:54  <Leanden> Closing Link: (Banned)
21:43:57  <Leanden> any ideas?
21:44:11  <planetmaker> yes. Don't use mibbit
21:44:25  <Leanden> figured that was the cause
21:44:36  <Leanden> why is mibbit embedded in the forums instead of a proper IRC client?
21:44:38  <planetmaker> the forum link to irc is broken for ages. Mibbit does not implement the irc api to this network properly
21:44:59  <planetmaker> also, it's nothing we can do about. It's network policy of oftc
21:45:43  <Leanden> ow ok
21:45:49  <planetmaker> mibbit chose to ignore oftc's advice for two years to adjust their interface. After two years the old api was unplugged
21:46:06  <Leanden> fair enough
21:46:20  <planetmaker> basically mibbit does not implement any protection for oftc to ban single griefers
21:46:32  <planetmaker> thus they ban mibbit
21:49:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess the question is: why does the forum still run mibbit, then?
21:50:15  <Leanden> that was my next question
21:50:54  <Leanden> (and also my original question... "why is mibbit embedded in the forums instead of a proper IRC client? ")
21:51:55  <planetmaker> owen never came around to fixing? But you better ask that in forums :D
21:52:08  <planetmaker> it might remind him
21:52:23  <frosch123> wasn't it just reminded two week ago :p
21:52:48  <frosch123> <- your thread to complain in :)
21:52:55  <Leanden> i guess he is busy fixing amitrains
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21:55:49  <frosch123> no idea what that is, google says locomotion
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21:56:19  <Leanden> its one of Owen's other sites
21:56:25  <Leanden> that hosts mods for locomotion
21:56:31  <Leanden> recently got hacked
21:56:52  <frosch123> actually, the top hit is a forum thread from 2011 about it being down
21:57:41  <Leanden> ay, amitrains was never actually floated on google
21:57:48  <Leanden> so wont show up in searches :)
21:58:27  <Leanden> except that second link right there
21:58:48  <peter1138> "floated"... what?
21:59:14  <Leanden> cant think of the right term
21:59:31  <peter1138> Google follows links all the over the place. You don't request to be added.
22:00:23  <frosch123> well, you could try with a search engine that does not respect robot restrictions
22:00:41  *** guru3 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:00:51  <Leanden> actually...
22:01:19  <Leanden> for the sites i host i had to request them to be indexed by google
22:01:24  <frosch123> sounds like when we send someone to talk to dorpsgek
22:06:04  <Leanden> right im going to bed
22:06:06  <Leanden> night all
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22:09:21  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> Google follows links all the over the place. You don't request to be added. <-- but you can request it to not be added.
22:14:46  <frosch123> night
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22:15:21  <Eddi|zuHause> "iceland now cracks down on websites using the .is TLD for the 'islamic state'"
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