Log for #openttd on 16th October 2014:
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07:11:04  <supermop> contemplating ordering an out of print book from some website i've never heard of
07:11:25  <supermop> has a copy for , whereas the only copy amazon has is 0+
07:11:51  <Supercheese> Make sure to thouroughly Admiral Ackbar it
07:12:10  <supermop> can't find any other good documentation of this building on line and i am getting hung up on some detail in rhino though
07:12:13  <Supercheese> or should I say, de-Admiral Ackbar
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07:12:40  <supermop> i could just guess as i will be squishing it about to fit into 1x2 tiles anyway....
07:13:00  <supermop> Supercheese: would that just be yelling to no one in particular?
07:13:15  <Supercheese> No, I am referring to the famous, "It's a trap!"
07:13:20  <supermop> indeed
07:13:24  <Supercheese> Make sure the site you are ordering from is not, in fact
07:13:26  <supermop> who would i yell that at?
07:13:27  <Supercheese> a trap
07:13:50  <Supercheese> I've not made my Bad Joke quota for today :P
07:14:24  <supermop> i can order the same copy from the same bookseller in germany via ebay rather than this other used book website.....
07:14:30  <supermop> hmmm
07:14:44  <supermop>
07:14:46  <peter1138> Buying a book about a building to make a 1x2 tile image?
07:14:46  <supermop> vs:
07:14:48  <peter1138> o_O
07:15:15  <supermop>
07:15:39  <supermop> well maybe some other buildings in the monograph would be worth drawing too?
07:16:19  <supermop> this guy isn't well represented or know in the english literature, even though he's done several major buildings
07:16:25  <supermop> could be a good source regardless
07:17:11  <supermop> i hope there is a floor plan because i am getting stuck on a couple details of this building:
07:18:12  <supermop>
07:18:54  <supermop> not enough picture on google or in my own that i took when i stayed in that hotel last yeaar
07:20:06  <supermop> any of you guys in germany want to go look at it in the shop for me and take pictures of every page?
07:20:12  <Jinassi> are you drawing the one with white fasade?
07:20:26  <planetmaker> moin
07:20:32  <Jinassi> morning
07:20:48  <supermop> the shinjuku washington hotel, the S-shaped building seen outside the window in lost in translation
07:21:35  <supermop> took me forever just to deduce the circumference in precast panels of the rounded ends
07:21:54  <peter1138> ...
07:22:10  <peter1138> Sounds like you getting a bit obsessive about details, to be honest.
07:22:11  <Jinassi> upper floors are giving you hard time
07:22:17  <supermop> ive drawn a rough plan traced from the google maps overhead
07:23:11  <supermop> Jinassi: the top floor and mechanical/parapet is different slab-to slab height, as is ground floor and mezzanine,
07:24:02  <planetmaker> supermop, I can't say I knew that website before. Nor do I see how I could much easier look at the book than you
07:24:09  <Jinassi> till when would you need the pics?
07:24:32  <Jinassi> doable
07:24:45  <planetmaker> on the other hand... the site doesn't look fishy
07:25:12  <supermop> only detail i found was that height is 96m, but no idea if that is just the hotel occupied floors, or up to parapet, or HVAC or what
07:25:56  <supermop> well i have 30th birthday in a week so maybe i get a little present for myself
07:26:51  <supermop> peter1138: i probably collect too many architecture books, but to be honest, the sprite is just a little push to buy a book I would have wanted to track down anyway
07:27:28  <peter1138> That makes more sense to me :)
07:27:43  <supermop> i didn't realize that hotel was buy the office of this guy who I already admired until looking for better images from which to draw the sprite
07:27:50  <supermop> *by
07:28:49  * andythenorth _might_ have slightly bought this when doing HEQS
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07:29:09  <supermop> I did see the building in person in 2004 and was curious about it, so when i needed a cheap-ish hotel in shinjuku last year i made a point of booking there to see the inside!
07:29:19  <andythenorth> Pikka: 3 weeks work in 2 hours done?
07:29:28  <Pikka> absolutely
07:29:33  <Pikka> went surprisingly smoothly
07:29:39  <andythenorth> I don’t know why people spend so long doing stuff
07:29:44  <andythenorth> always leave it until it’s too late
07:29:47  <andythenorth> then you can’t waste any time
07:29:56  <Pikka> basically, yes.
07:29:59  <supermop> andythenorth: i would have bought that anyway - every home library need a copy of Giant Earthmovers
07:31:00  <Supercheese> Nothing like a bit of Civil Engineering to keep things civil
07:31:41  <supermop> Jinassi: i am in no hurry really - i can wait until it shows up from germany.
07:38:49  <andythenorth> hmm
07:38:55  * andythenorth needs to hap some offset jank
07:39:10  <Pikka> froody
07:40:07  <andythenorth> semi trucks
07:40:11  <andythenorth> and their overlapping trailers
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08:00:04  <Pikka> non-articulates are the answer ;)
08:00:19  <Pikka> articulated trucks can look cool though.
08:00:52  <andythenorth> meh
08:00:56  <andythenorth> tmwftlb
08:01:00  <andythenorth> doing it anyway
08:03:17  <peter1138> Isn't it easy to make them match up in / and \ views?
08:04:28  <peter1138> Treat the trailer as a shorter part with a bit overlapping the front. It will go a bit wonky around bends but it always will.
08:04:51  <peter1138> Anyone up for some realistic artic/trailer handling? :p
08:04:58  <Jinassi> who is responsible for Kilimanjaro Unitised mining truck?
08:05:08  <andythenorth> pikka
08:05:27  <Jinassi> <3 Pikka, that thing is a beast
08:05:32  <andythenorth> peter1138: I’m doing the tractor as a shorter part, with the rear chassis stuck under the trailer
08:05:35  <andythenorth> seems to work
08:05:46  <andythenorth> just faff with where the sprites go in the spritesheet
08:06:02  <andythenorth> ‘standard’ positions don’t work when you’re faking vehicle length
08:06:03  <peter1138> andythenorth, yeah that would work too. I was thinking as a separate part the front would be too short... but it can't be separated, heh.
08:06:30  <peter1138> spritesheet?
08:06:40  <peter1138> How is their literal position in the spritesheet relevant? :S
08:07:07  <andythenorth> because one set of offsets in the grf
08:07:16  <peter1138> no
08:07:21  <andythenorth> eh?
08:07:24  <supermop> Pikka: any particular pseudo-scale you are envisioning for your queenslanders?
08:07:36  <peter1138> you need one set of offsets per bounding box size, i think.
08:07:50  <peter1138> else you end up drawing too much
08:07:55  <peter1138> hmm, maybe autocrop works in that case
08:07:59  <andythenorth> dunno :)
08:08:06  <andythenorth> all spritesheets have identical bounding boxes
08:08:16  <andythenorth> and vehicle is shoved left and down in most views
08:08:19  <andythenorth> which works
08:08:30  <andythenorth> except for \ views where length is cheated
08:08:40  <peter1138> :o
08:08:42  <Pikka> not really thought about it yet, supermop. I'm thinking of scaling everything as the trains, though. So I think it's about 5px / m in normal zoom.
08:09:03  <Pikka> of course, my houses will not necessarily be realistically dimensioned
08:09:06  <Pikka> any more than the trains are
08:09:09  <peter1138> zmg scale
08:09:16  <Pikka> no it doesn't, peter1138
08:10:07  <peter1138> k
08:10:19  <supermop> yeah,
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08:11:51  <supermop> terraces here vary a lot, but many of the medium-ish ones are close to 16 feet wide - so i was thinking of just making them all 5mx10m
08:11:54  <andythenorth>
08:11:58  <andythenorth> ^ Broadrock mining truck
08:12:01  <andythenorth> mostly works
08:12:16  <andythenorth> need to do a few more before I decide where to add the manual adjustment faff
08:13:02  <Pikka> hmm
08:13:07  <Pikka> 5px/m isn't right
08:13:12  <Pikka> more like 3px/m or something
08:13:14  <supermop> as they must line up all together though, i need to decide whether that works out to 1x2 tiles, 0.5x1 tiles, or something weird like three terraces to two tiles width
08:13:40  <andythenorth> Pikka: I think I once worked out that Squid is 4px/m
08:13:43  <supermop> book expected between 29th and the 10th
08:13:46  <andythenorth> by accident, not design
08:13:56  <Pikka> accident is the best kind of design
08:14:02  <andythenorth> just looked right :P
08:14:21  <peter1138> is that 4px at 1x or 4x zoom? :p
08:14:45  <andythenorth> pixels or rounded rects?
08:14:52  <andythenorth> retina pixels?
08:14:59  <Pikka> voxels
08:15:02  <andythenorth> good job we don’t use TV pixels
08:15:13  <andythenorth> that was a fun lesson in getting things wrong
08:15:53  <andythenorth> rectangular pixels, colour clamp, contrast clamp, overscan, bleed, PAL, NSTC
08:15:59  <andythenorth> also anamorph
08:16:02  <andythenorth> the lessons we learn
08:16:35  <andythenorth> whereas in print there’s only bleed, crop, overprint, CMYK, ink density
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08:16:52  <supermop> ill either model the regular houses as 1.5x the width of whatever the terraces are, or terraces as 2/3 whatever the houses are
08:17:06  <andythenorth> someone try that mining truck and tell me how bad it is
08:17:15  <andythenorth> some of the angles have hokey distance on the tractor
08:18:04  <supermop> melb is all about the lanes and laneways though so ill chop a little bit of space off the reach of each lot to texture as bluestone cobbles
08:18:18  <supermop> *rear not reach
08:18:59  <supermop> andythenorth: does road hog supplant heqs?
08:19:45  <argoneus> good morning train friends
08:22:17  <supermop> good evening
08:37:31  <andythenorth> supermop: RH doesn’t exclude HEQS
08:37:46  <andythenorth> but it does include the more useful vehicle types from HEQS
08:37:58  <andythenorth> HEQS is dead
08:37:59  <andythenorth> or done
08:38:01  <andythenorth> whichever
08:38:04  <argoneus> what is RH?
08:38:10  <andythenorth> road hog
08:38:48  <argoneus> is that some new newgrf
08:38:48  <argoneus> ?
08:39:07  <andythenorth>
08:40:10  <argoneus> the fuck am I reading
08:41:48  <argoneus>
08:41:49  <argoneus> hahahaha
08:50:58  <andythenorth> boats
08:53:29  <supermop> i am just now realizing that something called train fever exists
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08:54:52  <Jinassi> Heard of A-train 9 then? :)
08:54:56  <argoneus> spoilers: its shit
08:57:51  <supermop> i heard of a-train the box i saw in a computer store sometime circa 1995
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09:13:59  <supermop> Pikka: are you thinking slightly cartoonish proportions for houses? i didn't consider that for houses but have been for some commission home blocks
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09:29:12  <supermop> damn i will not be able to afford keeping this up:
09:29:13  <supermop>
09:30:00  <supermop> maybe out of print academic books is not the ideal reference source for drawing little toy houses
09:30:20  <peter1138> heh
09:30:49  <supermop> i dont think that one really even has drawings
09:31:06  <supermop> i think ill go loiter around with a tape measure
09:38:23  <argoneus> oh wow
09:38:29  <argoneus> the original transport tycoon deluxe cd is worth 0 on ebay
09:38:42  <peter1138> o_O
09:38:42  <supermop> what about my original TTO?
09:38:51  <peter1138> i got mine for £5 years ago
09:38:56  <supermop> better monorail
09:38:58  <peter1138> Came with RCT as well
09:39:01  <argoneus> no wait
09:39:03  <argoneus> only 
09:39:32  <peter1138> Hmm, and RRT2
09:39:45  <peter1138> And I have TTO from years ago, although I don't know where that went :S
09:39:46  <argoneus> I never got into railroad tycoon for some reason
09:39:50  <argoneus> the game just seemed weird
09:40:03  <argoneus> and my english wasn't that good, and iirc there was a lot of reading
09:40:08  <argoneus> don't remember
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09:46:47  <supermop> going to play some mp
09:47:10  <argoneus> supermp
09:47:38  <argoneus> peter1138: what is TTO?
09:48:20  <peter1138> TT
09:48:24  <argoneus> ah
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09:50:29  <peter1138>
09:50:34  <peter1138> I got my TTD in that :)
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09:51:54  <supermop> anyone want to join? this server is just me so far
09:52:11  <peter1138> What version?
09:52:16  <argoneus> join my server supermop
09:52:16  <argoneus> :D
09:52:24  <argoneus> it's 24/7 for me and my friends :<
09:53:06  <supermop> 1.4.3
09:53:12  <peter1138> Oh
09:53:15  <supermop> argoneus: what newgrfs?
09:53:23  <peter1138> Sorry but I need the Old-Peoples-Special-Edition.
09:53:28  <peter1138> (r27004+)
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09:53:37  <argoneus> ehhh, don't remember supermop
09:53:41  <argoneus> check #ufeff server in the list
09:53:42  <supermop> i didn't know if nightlies would be on servers?
09:53:51  <argoneus> there's quite a few
09:54:05  <argoneus> I'm not even sure if I'm allowed to use half of them, since I took them from ottdcoop
09:54:41  <peter1138> If it's in that pack then yes.
09:54:49  <supermop> what version argoneus?
09:54:53  <argoneus> 1.4.3
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09:55:23  <argoneus> we don't really need features from the latest nightlies, just like play game
09:55:29  <peter1138> Of course, because they're not on bananas, I cba to download them manually :p
09:56:43  <peter1138> Hmm, alpinist.
09:56:52  <andythenorth> wtf is alpinist?
09:57:04  <Eddi|zuHause> steep mountains
09:57:20  <peter1138> a mountaineer who climbs in medium-sized glaciated mountain areas such as the Alps
09:57:30  <Eddi|zuHause> really needs cliffs
09:57:32  <supermop> andythenorth: i like how every company to ever build a machine shop has managed to get the local council to name their street after james watt
09:57:39  <peter1138> Needs a better name, tbh.
09:57:54  <andythenorth> afaict, alpinist should be renamed ‘weird inverted pyramids'
09:58:05  <argoneus> mountaineer
09:58:17  <andythenorth> it’s not as mountainy as mountainous
09:59:09  <peter1138> It's higher.
09:59:55  <peter1138> I guess maybe smooth and large maps works better with these new height levels, than rough & small.
10:00:14  <andythenorth> rough seemed to be worse than smooth when I hit newgame a lot
10:00:26  <peter1138> Yeah, rough tis all about the wierd pyramids. Smooth is better.
10:00:33  <andythenorth> variety distribution remains mystifying
10:00:48  <peter1138> s/mystifying/shit/
10:00:55  <andythenorth> isn’t it lies?
10:00:58  <andythenorth> I read the code once or twice
10:01:02  <andythenorth> forgotten it
10:01:12  <peter1138> No, but it doesn't guarantee you'll get at least some of what you asked for.
10:01:34  * andythenorth wonders how terrain generators work
10:01:47  <andythenorth> if I try to write one, will probably be worse than current
10:01:47  <peter1138> Problem is that VD might select an area of sea to be mountains.
10:01:56  <peter1138> And then a mountainous area to be low.
10:02:05  <peter1138> And then you end up with flat and water...
10:02:18  <peter1138> Sometimes it ends up nice, most often not.
10:02:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen such extremes
10:03:01  <peter1138> Maybe it needs to select areas based on some algorithm, rather than just being random.
10:03:23  <andythenorth> does TGP use perlin noise?
10:03:25  <peter1138> And then maybe have some ratios as to how much should be high / low.
10:03:27  <peter1138> Yes.
10:03:57  <peter1138> It's a weird awkward version of the algorithm though, designed to be a bit faster.
10:04:37  <andythenorth> is diamond square better for landscapes?
10:05:05  <andythenorth> DS seems to produce weird square ridges
10:05:47  <andythenorth> I dunno, perlin noise doesn’t look like landscape to me
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10:10:10  <andythenorth> but an andythenorth terrain generator isn’t going to be better than some that have been around 30 years :(
10:10:45  <argoneus> how can you be sure
10:10:48  <argoneus> they didn't think
10:10:58  <argoneus> "well people have done this in 17th century, they probably worked it out in these 300 years"
10:11:01  <peter1138>
10:11:45  <andythenorth> I was considering bundling some plates together
10:11:57  <peter1138> Convert that to C++...
10:12:07  <andythenorth> make mountains
10:12:09  <andythenorth> then flow water
10:12:10  <peter1138> Run a few... okay, lots... of iterators. See what happens.
10:12:11  <andythenorth> done
10:12:56  <andythenorth> hey that’s quite fun :)
10:13:04  <peter1138> *iterations
10:15:27  <peter1138> Run until 4.54 billion years? heh
10:27:08  <Eddi|zuHause> somehow, the continents are all flat...
10:30:33  <peter1138> Hmm
10:31:15  <peter1138> Flat or flat relative to the sphere size?
10:35:07  <Eddi|zuHause> the "elevation" map shows hardly any non-white spots
10:39:51  <peter1138>
10:40:06  <peter1138> "realistic"
10:40:23  <peter1138> Not really, just adds a few bits. Still doesn't really look like landscape.
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10:40:26  <Pikka> supermop, I honestly have no idea. I'll think about it when I get there. :)
10:40:38  <peter1138> (But does have Cliff Richards!)
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10:45:47  <andythenorth> interesting
10:45:54  <andythenorth> landscapes aren’t very fractal
10:46:24  <andythenorth> I dunno
10:46:35  <andythenorth> kind of wondering what landscapes are fun to play in the game?
10:47:39  <andythenorth> given that we only have one type of slope, ‘realism’ is a poor starting point :P
10:47:58  <V453000> I still feel like making things in -some- scale to fit together is a good idea Pikka :P
10:48:14  <V453000> aka if you have 580 for a tile now, I would just continue with it
10:48:27  <V453000> obviously 10x10m is a lot more sensible but meh :P
10:50:52  <Pikka> obviously V, but how big is a house?
10:50:59  <Pikka> is it 10m long, or 20m long, or...?
10:51:20  <V453000> like tall?
10:51:45  <V453000> 10x10 would be to fit one full tile, 20x20 for 2x2 :) tall can vary very much I guess
10:58:05  <Pikka> "it would fit one full tile" isn't a scale :P
10:58:23  <supermop> a 10m sq house is a bit small for queensland if there is any yard
11:01:21  <andythenorth> we’re doing things to scale? :o
11:01:25  <andythenorth> fml
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11:03:11  <peter1138> Yeah...
11:03:35  <peter1138> Approximately to scale within the same feature is not bad though.
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11:05:01  <V453000> it is very much a scale Pikka
11:05:07  <V453000> the only scale you need to care about in a model
11:05:16  <V453000> how large is a tile
11:05:43  <V453000> I am not saying door of the house should be 2.20 tall and 1m wide
11:05:53  <V453000> that is obviously scaled with the building
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11:11:28  <supermop> V453000: im wanting to reuse building elements as much as possible so so long as i pick one for all of the houses should be fine
11:11:55  <V453000> sure
11:12:11  <V453000> I re-use many of my things like cargoes/machinery/yeti dudes/stuff all of the time
11:12:17  <V453000> all I can say is I use 10x10m for one tile
11:12:26  <V453000>
11:14:10  <peter1138> Shame you don't make separate groundsprites.
11:14:42  <V453000> I do ,I just have them larger and cut off
11:14:48  <V453000> for precise edges
11:14:59  <peter1138> No, all your industries are drawn above a grass groundsprite.
11:15:09  <V453000> ah that
11:15:10  <planetmaker> yes, everything's on grass in yeti
11:15:28  <planetmaker> but should be on separate ground sprites taylored for the specific industry
11:15:35  <planetmaker> like the ground finger print of it
11:15:35  <V453000> xd
11:15:45  <V453000> you explicitly told me not to mess with the ground sprite
11:15:56  <peter1138> It doesn't make a lot of difference tbh
11:16:04  <peter1138> But it makes X view not so good.
11:16:11  <planetmaker> :) I told you to add the finger print on top of the natural ground
11:16:12  <V453000> mhm
11:16:17  <peter1138> Also all your industries have a fixed layout, which is rather bland.
11:16:22  <planetmaker> but you anyway provide your own grass. So that advice is pointless
11:16:33  <peter1138> The default industries have variations in layout.
11:16:45  <V453000> variations dont really work with complex graphics
11:16:50  <peter1138> Sure
11:17:02  <V453000> sure there could theoretically be addons
11:17:07  <peter1138> You'd need to redesign them to keep elements to a single tile. Big change.
11:17:26  <V453000> rather impossible for majority :)
11:18:08  <V453000> but yeah there can be some extra parts which could be randomly added on the sides
11:18:12  <planetmaker> it need not be single-tile elements, could also be 1x2, 1x3, 2x2 or whatever. Which could be re-arranged for different layouts. Like default factory or iron works
11:18:13  <peter1138> Not impossible. It's definitely something you'd do at initial design time rather than trying to shoehorn what you've got already to git.
11:18:14  <V453000> "randomly" :)
11:18:58  <V453000> impossible if you consider animations which go between many tiles
11:19:04  <planetmaker> not randomly. But having modules makes it easy to randomly select one of different layouts. without creating new graphics it's then possible to create different layouts
11:19:15  <V453000> I know
11:19:25  <planetmaker> yeah, it needs consideration at design stage. Not now where it's done
11:19:38  <V453000> I just chose to do it this way, consistency is at least not confusing
11:21:19  <peter1138> The default iron-ore mine is an odd one. Doesn't even use non-ground sprites, heh.
11:21:27  <peter1138> (and fixed layout of course)
11:21:48  <V453000> regardless, as I said I can still add modules to the 4x4, just keeping it as a core
11:21:54  <V453000> not that I intend to (atm)
11:22:21  <peter1138> coal mines have nice variations
11:22:38  <planetmaker> yes. First get v1 finished. Making modular designs subsequently for some industries is possible at any stage
11:23:01  <planetmaker> for instance the farm looks like it can be well modularized
11:23:37  <V453000> theoretically, yes :)
11:24:28  <V453000> I think I will keep modularity for eventual base industries or some other industry grf :P
11:24:39  <peter1138> planetmaker, the pens are not tile-aligned, so... not currently.
11:24:53  <V453000> that is why theoretically :)
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11:28:57  <V453000> regardless, in the very soon time I will be adding more animations to all industries, now that I have yeti dudes prepared :) which could make it even more impossible to make it modular
11:30:06  <argoneus> "more impossible" grinds my ears more than "more optimal"
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11:31:19  <V453000> is awesome
11:35:21  <argoneus> you forgot a /me there
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11:38:00  <V453000> no
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11:56:59  <Quatroking> hi
11:57:15  <Quatroking> How heavy is openttd on the GPU?
11:57:39  <Quatroking> my laptop has a dead nvidia gpu and now runs off the i5 embedded intel gpu but I'm getting a pretty awful framerate
11:59:03  <supermop> argoneus: i cant find two of those newgrfs
11:59:45  <Quatroking> cpu is an i5 460m at 2.5GHZ, laptop has 4gb ram
12:00:58  <argoneus> supermop: they are in the openttdcoop pack
12:01:09  <argoneus> I made my own pack which I redistribute to my friends, but I probably can't share that openly
12:02:47  <Quatroking> also, quick question, is it possible for two players on a LAN to play as one company
12:03:37  <argoneus> Quatroking: yes
12:03:54  <argoneus> wait
12:04:02  <argoneus> do you mean two people on your own LAN
12:04:08  <argoneus> or two people from the same IP connecting to a server?
12:07:04  <Quatroking> two machines on the lan, playing as one company
12:07:30  <Quatroking> I'm hoping to be able to use both my desktop and laptop at the same time to create a 3-monitor setup and be really cool
12:08:05  <Taede> 2 clients can be in the same company yes, one just needs to host a multiplayer game
12:08:10  <Quatroking> nice
12:08:15  <Taede> the 2nd machine can then simply join the company
12:08:23  <Quatroking> using synergy to share the mouse
12:08:35  <Taede> as for gpu, openttd doesnt really use it that much
12:08:42  <Taede> its pretty much all cpu
12:22:39  <supermop> night
12:23:04  <argoneus> nn
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12:40:24  <Quatroking> Taede, and an i5 460m, 2 cores 4 threads at 2.5ghz should be just fine right
12:45:03  <V453000> only 1 core matters
12:45:15  <V453000> it should be ok for small-normal games
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12:54:01  <fjb> Moin
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13:07:52  <peter1138> ttp://
13:07:54  <peter1138>
13:07:56  <peter1138> :o
13:08:49  <V453000> I remember seeing that somewhere :D
13:09:08  <V453000> or something similar
13:09:09  <peter1138> That was version 1 of my EZ. Apparently I did a rewrite at some point which I forgot about.
13:09:16  <peter1138> So that is rewritten to work with current code.
13:09:53  <peter1138> Works quite well, but it gives a very stylized look.
13:10:12  <V453000> yez
13:10:29  <__ln__> peter1138: does that picture imply that britain will have switched to right-hand-side traffic by 2443?
13:11:50  <peter1138> If you wish.
13:16:20  <SpComb> does openttd now support subpixel font hinting?
13:17:17  <peter1138> No.
13:18:09  <argoneus> does openttd now support directx 12?
13:18:34  <peter1138>
13:18:39  <peter1138> Seems an interesting algorithm.
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13:58:06  <peter1138> Heh, OpenGFX still has the yellow-flashing bug in places...
13:59:09  <peter1138> In sprite 1553
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14:31:20  <peter1138> Hmm, deserts have a maximum height?
14:32:48  <peter1138> Hmm, this is weird.
14:33:16  <peter1138> There's some kind of ridge at level 43.
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14:34:20  <andythenorth> not level 42
14:34:21  <andythenorth> shame
14:35:00  <peter1138>
14:35:06  <peter1138> and then... the rain forests?
14:35:28  <andythenorth> oh how cute
14:35:45  <V453000> seen that too
14:35:47  <andythenorth> that’s awesome, could build routes along the terraces
14:35:56  <V453000> I have more of a problem with the ultra "smooth" hill
14:36:03  <V453000> it just  goes all the way up, uniformly
14:36:05  <andythenorth> afaict, you don’t normally get terraces
14:36:27  <V453000> yeah, uniform terraces
14:36:28  <V453000> you do
14:36:34  <V453000> either terraces or straight up
14:36:35  <V453000> but no stops in it
14:36:36  <andythenorth> oh
14:36:42  <andythenorth> I usually just get straight up
14:36:42  <V453000> once mountain starts, it just goes up
14:36:48  <andythenorth> straight up is boring
14:36:52  <V453000> well yeah that is even worse
14:36:59  <V453000> but bothe are uniform and ugly
14:36:59  <andythenorth> can’t build roads on straight up
14:37:57  <andythenorth> I like it
14:38:09  <andythenorth> just needs some rivers cutting in
14:38:11  <V453000> your argument is invalid
14:38:36  <peter1138> that is actually scary
14:38:46  <andythenorth> definitely raising the gam
14:38:48  <andythenorth> e
14:39:06  <andythenorth> yeti dudes need more protective gear
14:39:13  <V453000> deliver bdmt and you shall be rewarded with food
14:39:17  <V453000> proper port industry
14:39:27  <V453000> hm :D maybe
14:39:50  <peter1138> Do I want to know what the slug is for?
14:40:01  <V453000> it is the boss
14:40:01  <andythenorth> I decided I didn’t want to know
14:40:04  <V453000> it is fed BDMT
14:40:09  <andythenorth> much better to not know
14:40:19  <V453000> now you know
14:41:07  <V453000> it is andythenorth fault
14:41:11  <V453000> he made ports first
14:41:18  <andythenorth> someone had to
14:41:21  <andythenorth> it needed to happen
14:41:28  <V453000> no, guilty
14:41:29  <andythenorth> ports are the saviour of the supplies shit
14:41:32  <V453000> you caused this
14:42:12  <V453000> ports are the saviour of any missing link in the system :D
14:42:52  <andythenorth> means you don’t have to have loads of stupid tedious industries and cargos
14:43:25  <V453000> well not really, the problem usually is that you simply dont have a valid excuse for transforming cargo A into cargo B
14:43:28  <V453000> voila, you TRADE it
14:43:58  <V453000> FIRS clearly proves "have loads of industries and cargoes" to the max :P
14:46:37  <andythenorth> I hate FIRS
14:46:55  <V453000> that isnt necessary, FIRS is nice too
14:47:12  <andythenorth> Full FIRS is the dumbest thing I’ve ever done
14:47:18  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE
14:47:32  <V453000> economiez fix dat?
14:47:46  <andythenorth> yes
14:47:49  <andythenorth> totally
14:49:02  <argoneus> andythenorth: you made FIRS?
14:49:08  <V453000> XD
14:49:43  <andythenorth> V453000 did it
14:49:49  * argoneus cracks knuckles
14:49:52  <argoneus> which one of you made FIRS?
14:49:54  <andythenorth> blame V453000
14:49:57  <V453000> I fucking didnt
14:50:07  <andythenorth> wasn’t me
14:50:08  <V453000> I was just bitching about the bad features until I made my own industry set :P
14:50:14  <V453000> [yeti)
14:50:20  * argoneus looks at andythenorth
14:50:27  <V453000> I WIN
14:50:43  <argoneus> he would probably win
14:50:47  <argoneus> I'm like a 12 year old compared to him probably
14:50:55  <argoneus> :(
14:51:10  <V453000> wat
14:51:40  <argoneus> wat
14:51:46  * andythenorth is waiting it out
14:51:56  <argoneus> andythenorth: anyway
14:51:59  <argoneus> you made FIRS?
14:52:07  <andythenorth> not all on my own
14:52:08  <V453000> fuck just read the firs readme XD
14:52:17  <argoneus> I'm at work :()
14:52:25  <andythenorth> there’s a readme?
14:52:26  <V453000>
14:52:32  <V453000> idk, description?
14:52:34  <V453000> webdocs?: P
14:52:50  <andythenorth> oh that readme sucks
14:53:08  <andythenorth> stupid readme
14:53:09  <V453000> whites a million lines of code
14:53:11  <V453000> doesnt write a good readme
14:53:12  <V453000> GG
14:53:18  <andythenorth> docs are better
14:53:30  <argoneus> GG
14:53:38  <V453000> no NUTS in known to be compatible
14:53:44  <argoneus> this web 2.0
14:53:46  <V453000> only has ALL of the fucking FIRS cargo sprites
14:53:49  <argoneus> my eyes are melting
14:53:52  <V453000>  /cry
14:54:02  <andythenorth> V453000: provide a patch
14:54:09  <V453000> xd
14:54:18  <argoneus> it doesn't say who did it
14:54:29  <andythenorth> it was V453000
14:54:32  <V453000> FIRS License ------------ FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Full industry replacement set for OpenTTD Copyright (C) 2009-2011 andythenorth, and others.
14:54:43  <andythenorth> fuck
14:54:44  <andythenorth> busted
14:54:56  <andythenorth> who wrote that
14:55:27  <argoneus> does others mean V453000
14:59:35  <andythenorth> nah
15:02:47  <planetmaker>
15:04:45  <peter1138> Nutzer?
15:06:08  <V453000> waz dat
15:06:15  <peter1138> A list of authors.
15:06:23  <peter1138> Or at least, committers.
15:06:27  <V453000> :d
15:08:04  <planetmaker> what peter1138 says. LC_ALL=de
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15:31:00  <peter1138> dbg: [misc] /home/petern/src/openttd-trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp:2052: Backupped value was not restored!
15:31:05  <peter1138> What is that?
15:33:57  <Alberth> interesting question :)
15:34:20  <peter1138> Also, "Backed up"
15:34:55  <peter1138> Hmm, actually I cancelled world gen, might've been because of that.
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15:35:39  <Alberth> Backup<CompanyByte> cur_company(_current_company, OWNER_NONE, FILE_LINE);     macro magic, it seems
15:36:17  <peter1138> C++ can be amazing.
15:36:32  <peter1138> That looks like template magic, not macro magic.
15:36:43  <Alberth> fair enough :)
15:37:31  <peter1138>
15:37:41  <peter1138> Anyone think it's worth having that as an option?
15:37:59  <peter1138> Personally I think it makes the UI nicer, but not so keen on the viewport though.
15:38:11  <Alberth> trying to recreate the 640x480 experience?
15:38:27  <peter1138> Nah, that's already in place :-)
15:39:52  <andythenorth> peter1138: it’s kind of fun
15:40:06  <andythenorth> boggles my eyes a bit
15:40:26  <V453000> Alberth:
15:40:50  <V453000> including random crates (tm)
15:42:11  <peter1138> Amusingly, it is possible to make it only apply to text...
15:43:56  <andythenorth> ha
15:44:15  <peter1138> But I can't distinguish between viewport and UI sprites though.
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15:45:55  <Alberth> woooo, and I thought YETIs were big already :D
15:46:36  <V453000> :)
15:46:49  <V453000> actually making one fit in the car was not as easy as I expected too XD
15:47:00  <Alberth> workers must work hard to keep the harbour so clean :)
15:47:00  <liq3> V453000: 5X? ;o
15:47:05  <V453000> 5X.
15:47:19  <V453000> they do Alberth
15:47:41  <peter1138> Yeah, 4x zoom wasn't enough ;)
15:48:01  <V453000> the missing 5X :P
15:48:17  <liq3> i'm suddenly confused why you'd want to use the 5X
15:48:26  <V453000> why so?
15:48:36  <liq3> can just reroute trains from BDMT to food.
15:48:46  <V453000> and you will produce bdmt how :)
15:48:52  <liq3> what I mean is
15:49:15  <liq3> have 1 YETI yard per BDMT primary, and then 10 YETI yards per Food primary.
15:49:23  <liq3> can just move around what primaries service what primary.
15:49:28  <liq3> erm, what Yards*
15:49:29  <peter1138> V453000, will you fix all the sprite offsets?
15:49:31  <V453000> it wont be so simple in the future
15:49:34  <V453000> yes now there isnt much point
15:49:35  <liq3> I hope so :P
15:49:41  <peter1138> As industries sort of float above their tiles at the moment.
15:49:45  <V453000> peter1138: there is only one template so kind of yes
15:49:47  <liq3> altho, if you have 10x as much food as BDMT in one factory...
15:49:55  <V453000> as I said, 0.1.0 fixes offsets
15:50:18  <liq3> V453000: how are you going to make it more complicated?
15:50:23  <V453000> easily
15:50:42  <V453000> making non-linear worker efficiency causes you to use multiple industries as a preference
15:50:48  <peter1138> -580 works better than -584 :)
15:50:50  <V453000> in case you dont have enough farms around you you can do trading
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15:51:13  <andythenorth> make it much more complicated
15:51:15  <V453000> I figured something like moving 3px left and 7 px down might work just fine
15:51:33  <V453000> complicated isnt complicated andy :P
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15:51:37  <liq3> That'd be so different to stock industries. Wow.
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15:51:43  <liq3> Having to use multiple secondaries and even primaries.
15:51:48  <Alberth> ah, it's like a port in FIRS
15:52:02  <V453000> yeah Alberth
15:52:09  <V453000> liq3: multiple secondaries probably not
15:52:23  <V453000> well, I call farms primaries in YETI
15:52:34  <liq3> yeh same
15:52:35  <V453000> those should benefit from being multiple
15:52:37  <peter1138> Hmm, the bounding boxes are all screwy too :(
15:52:40  <andythenorth> we should just make everything ports
15:52:45  <liq3> V453000: so still just one secondary per type?
15:52:45  <andythenorth> primaries are ports really
15:52:50  <V453000> yeah liq3
15:52:58  <andythenorth> V453000: how about a no-secondaries economy?
15:53:04  <andythenorth> also no sinks
15:53:08  <andythenorth> o_O
15:53:13  <V453000> andythenorth: go do it? :d
15:53:19  <V453000> make an endless chain
15:53:24  <V453000> everything produces
15:53:27  <andythenorth> coal -> farm
15:53:28  <liq3> andythenorth: YETI with the changes V453000 is talking about would almost be that anyway. :P
15:53:32  <andythenorth> grain -> cow farm
15:53:37  <andythenorth> cow farm -> coal mine
15:53:43  <V453000> yes
15:53:50  <V453000> just do it
15:53:51  <V453000> :D
15:54:00  <V453000> make the loop LONG with all firs industries
15:54:00  <andythenorth> ™
15:54:00  <V453000> easy
15:54:08  <V453000> call the economy snake
15:54:10  <Alberth> you'd think a giant slug would eat all food :)
15:54:18  <andythenorth> slugs eat bricks
15:54:19  <andythenorth> and cement
15:54:21  <V453000> no it eats building materials Alberth :)
15:54:28  <V453000> see even andythenorth knows
15:54:34  <Alberth> ah, missed that
15:54:34  <V453000> served with 4 pickles
15:54:56  <Alberth> not sure I want to meet your slugs :)
15:55:07  <Alberth> before you know, it would eat my house :)
15:55:09  <liq3> So the port Food is dead slugs? :P
15:55:17  <V453000> no, fish
15:55:22  <Alberth> nah, fish
15:55:23  <liq3> ,...where do the fish come from? XD
15:55:28  <V453000> also, I might create 32bppEZ slugs for NUTS now
15:55:36  <V453000> liq3: hunted on the left :)
15:55:36  <Alberth> liq3: noticed the capture device at the left?
15:55:54  <liq3> why is there a giant slug there? XD
15:56:12  <Alberth> carefully dried so it doesn't drip on the harbour concrete
15:56:14  <V453000> eats building materials, rewards you for them with food
15:56:24  <liq3> how does the slug make food? o.o
15:56:30  <liq3> lol
15:56:32  <V453000> he has minions
15:56:34  <V453000> slug is just the baws
15:56:37  <Alberth> liq3: otherwise, you'd be swamped in bricks and cement!
15:56:44  <liq3> :P
15:56:59  <V453000> yetis obey the slug
15:57:00  <V453000> only the slug
15:57:04  <Alberth> the harbour would sink!
15:57:07  <V453000> NO
15:57:29  <Alberth> I mean if the slug didn't eat the bricks and cement
15:57:34  <liq3> V453000: how does the minions get food? ;o
15:57:36  <V453000> aha
15:57:42  <V453000> omfg they catch fish liq3  :D
15:57:47  <V453000> it is a marine industry in water
15:57:47  <liq3> LOL
15:57:52  <V453000> there is fish around
15:57:56  <liq3> so are the minions slugs too?
15:58:06  <V453000> wat, minions are yeti dudz
15:58:15  <liq3> so confused :s
15:58:48  <Alberth> mission succeeded V :)
15:59:02  <liq3> So, we're basically paying the slug boss in slug food (BDMT), and he gives us fish for it? (yeti Food)
15:59:25  <V453000> fuck yes
15:59:26  <V453000> :)
15:59:28  <liq3> lol.
15:59:44  <Alberth> how big is the industry?
16:00:10  <V453000> 4x8 without 2 corners
16:00:44  <Alberth> lot of space :)
16:00:54  <V453000> there is space in water :)
16:00:57  <Alberth> but plenty of water :)
16:01:22  <V453000> I am considering how far it should want to be from the coast
16:02:08  <V453000> anyway, relocating from work to home
16:02:09  <V453000> brb :)
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16:36:05  <andythenorth> where is cat?
16:36:18  <Alberth> in he hat
16:36:22  <Alberth> *the
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16:51:22  <V453000> (:
16:54:59  <Alberth> not good?
16:56:49  <frosch123> where do yetis go when it rains?
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17:15:13  <frosch123> 17:34:55 <@peter1138> Hmm, actually I cancelled world gen, might've been because of that. <- yes, it can happen when aborting world gen, nothing to worry about
17:17:41  <V453000> frosch123: to them caves and igloos
17:19:07  <andythenorth> hmm
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17:19:09  <andythenorth> caves
17:19:43  <frosch123> cave industries producing bats?
17:20:09  <frosch123> there should be an animal based industry set, just to make V draw more animal transporters
17:24:20  <V453000> V doesnt DRAW anymore :)
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17:29:51  <frosch123> so you are redoing nuts as rendered 32bpp ez?
17:30:27  <frosch123> 32bpp would allow more rainbowy trains
17:31:04  <frosch123> but it may need a grf parameter: allow trains to be on drugs
17:31:41  <V453000> it is likely yes
17:32:51  <andythenorth> hmm
17:33:05  <andythenorth> ‘fixing’ vehicle positions by moving the vehicle in the spritesheet
17:33:08  <andythenorth> never ends well
17:33:36  <frosch123> textual stuff is always better for changes :)
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17:34:06  <Alberth> hi hi Wolf01
17:34:12  <andythenorth> also it suggests string
17:34:23  <Wolf01> hello o/
17:34:35  <Alberth> autodetect the edge of the vehicle?
17:34:59  <andythenorth> :P
17:35:08  <andythenorth> this is to position articulated trucks correctly
17:35:15  <andythenorth> which requires some janky finx
17:35:18  <andythenorth> fix *
17:35:57  <Alberth> finxes sound interesting too :)
17:36:38  <andythenorth> yup
17:36:56  <andythenorth>
17:37:09  <V453000> sooo how do I create a recolour mask for vehicles?
17:37:19  <V453000> like if I have a 32bpp slug sprite
17:37:25  <V453000> how do I make it recolourable?
17:38:06  <andythenorth> do it at render time :P
17:38:22  <frosch123> V453000: you need two sprites
17:38:30  <frosch123> one 32bpp, one 8bpp
17:38:34  <V453000> right
17:38:46  <frosch123> the 8bpp needs to be transparent-blue whenever only the 32bpp shall be visible
17:39:09  <frosch123> the 8bpp needs to use recolourable colours where recolouring shall occur
17:39:17  <V453000> hm
17:39:26  <frosch123> the recoloured pixels will use the recolouring schema from the 8bpp image, and then brightness from the 32bpp
17:39:29  <V453000> hm
17:39:36  <V453000> right
17:39:51  <V453000> so basically just a 8bpp CCblue or CCgreen sprite
17:39:56  <V453000> hm
17:39:59  <frosch123> in the easiest case you use greyscale in the 32bpp, and a single fixed colour in the 8bpp
17:40:15  <V453000> hm
17:40:24  <frosch123> but for company colours it can become trickier
17:40:50  <frosch123> the company colour gradients do not only differ by brightnes, but also by saturation and hue
17:41:01  <V453000> :o wat
17:41:06  <V453000> ah
17:41:07  <V453000> hm
17:41:09  <frosch123> so, to make it look good you need to use more than 1 company colour in the 8bpp
17:41:27  <frosch123> and do some trickery to make the colour transitions look intended
17:41:49  <V453000> that sounds like brutally tedious process to get render into this mask
17:42:23  <frosch123> isn't it the same as yeti animations?
17:42:29  <andythenorth> done truck is done
17:42:40  <andythenorth> biab
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17:42:43  <frosch123> a basic sprite with the recoloured parts in greyscale
17:42:46  <V453000> yeti animations arent 8bpp
17:42:59  <V453000> yeah that is the 32bpp part
17:43:06  <frosch123> one sprite with only the recoloured parts in greyscale which is then post-processed into a single 8bpp colour
17:43:07  <V453000> but how do I get the 8bpp thing
17:43:11  <V453000> hm
17:43:18  <V453000> but post processed how XD
17:43:47  <frosch123> i do no now your tools :p
17:43:50  <frosch123> +k
17:43:54  <frosch123> +t
17:44:18  <V453000> I guess some form of colour correction from greyscale and then trying to apply the palette is the only option I have
17:44:44  <Alberth> wasn't there some utility that tried matching things back onto the 8bpp palette?
17:45:20  <Alberth> gimp can probably also do it when converting from 32bpp to indexed
17:45:44  <Alberth> never tried that though
17:45:52  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27021 /trunk/src/lang (afrikaans.txt romanian.txt) (2014-10-16 17:45:44 UTC)
17:45:53  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:54  <V453000> well photoshop tries to palletize the colour so they are close too
17:45:55  <DorpsGek> afrikaans - 20 changes by telanus
17:45:56  <DorpsGek> romanian - 17 changes by kitguyy
17:46:08  <V453000> but no way to tell it to make CCblue not normal blue
17:46:25  <V453000> unless I had palette with only that colour yeah
17:46:41  <frosch123> you could make it black and white
17:46:49  <frosch123> white for transparent, black for cc
17:47:10  <frosch123> and then convert it to a 8bpp palette, which has white in 0, black in the cc spot, and grey everywhere else
17:47:30  <V453000> but the black is just one colour without any shades?
17:47:33  <frosch123> and then force the ttd palette with a different tool which does not colour-match
17:48:29  <frosch123> V453000: as said, multiple shades won't work anyway for smooth transitions. i would think you rather use them by rendering different parts
17:49:03  <V453000> hm
17:49:10  <frosch123> i.e. 32bpp base sprite + 1 sprite with stuff in cc shade 1 + 1 sprite with stuff in cc shade 2 + ....
17:49:39  <V453000> bbbut how do I create 2 different sprites with 1 shade each XD
17:49:39  <V453000> hm
17:49:40  <frosch123> i also think we can create some custom post-processing tool
17:49:56  <frosch123> replacing a signle colour with a fixed 8bpp colour "shouldn't be that hard"
17:49:59  <Alberth>     this one
17:50:08  <frosch123> hmm, or is it "can't be that hard"?
17:50:28  <frosch123> Alberth: that's not what we need
17:50:43  <frosch123> that tool converts 32bpp to the matching colours
17:50:44  <Alberth> should/cant: depends on how sure you are :)
17:50:59  <frosch123> we want it to convert to a specific unrelated colour
17:51:13  <frosch123> Alberth: i tried to quote a forum meme, but failed :p
17:51:54  <V453000> hm
17:52:17  <V453000> I will probably try something at some point but it sounds like a lot of messing around with stuff
17:52:22  <frosch123> if we do a custom tool, we can invent a custom schema to specify company colours :p
17:52:43  <V453000> that would be awesome, e.g. from greyscale
17:52:43  <Alberth> sounds not too difficult with PIL
17:53:00  <frosch123> greyscale would be useless
17:53:12  <V453000> not if you use it to create one CC
17:53:19  <V453000> and another greyscale file to create the other
17:53:58  <frosch123> ah, so you mean a tool that converts transparent/non-transparent to a specific cc shade?
17:54:31  <V453000> no I thought greyscale into scale of CC shades
17:54:46  <frosch123> what would be the use of that?
17:55:01  <frosch123> how would you create the greyscale?
17:55:08  <V453000> you render that easily
17:55:13  <V453000> or postproduce
17:55:16  <frosch123> then it's wrong
17:55:22  <V453000> creating greyscale picture is easy
17:55:29  <frosch123> you brightness of the 32bpp is already applied
17:55:41  <frosch123> so if you convert greyscale to cc, you apply the brightness twice
17:55:48  <V453000> I see
17:55:49  <V453000> sooo
17:55:59  <V453000> the only thing I need is one shade mask?
17:56:09  <frosch123> for the first test case yes,
17:56:12  <V453000> like saying "this area is CC" ?
17:56:16  <frosch123> but you will discover that it looks crap :p
17:56:27  <V453000> right :D
17:56:35  <frosch123> a single shade is not enough to make for a difference in yellow/orange/brown/cream
17:57:03  <frosch123> i guess it would work if you use cc only in few places
17:57:06  <V453000> -- you have to apply brightness multiple times? XD
17:57:18  <frosch123> i.e. when not colouring big shapes of the vehicle in cc
17:57:53  <frosch123> V453000: i think more of: use cc 1 on the door, use cc 2 on the windows, use cc 3 on the roof
17:58:04  <frosch123> i.e. using different cc shades in different places
17:58:11  <frosch123> but not for smooth transitions
17:58:22  <V453000> slug has no doors :P
17:58:39  <frosch123> well, then separate stripes
17:59:11  <frosch123> whatever, using multiple cc shades will always result in contours between them
17:59:18  <V453000> right
17:59:40  <frosch123> so they must be used in a way, so that the contours are right
18:00:40  <V453000> I guess I will just try and see what can I do
18:01:03  <frosch123> yeah, a test vehicle would be nice :)
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18:05:08  <V453000> yeah, I even have the slug model
18:05:18  <V453000> so it is just about setting up the infrastructure to get it into the game
18:06:14  <andythenorth> someone test this truck then
18:06:15  <andythenorth>
18:06:22  <andythenorth> it was loads of yak-shaving to get it done
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18:06:44  <andythenorth> Broadrock mining truck, 1951 or so
18:06:46  <frosch123> are yaks related to yetis?
18:07:50  <andythenorth> yetis shave the yaks
18:08:30  <frosch123> yak shaving "plant"?
18:09:12  <andythenorth> add a newgrf factory
18:09:17  <andythenorth> bit meta :P
18:09:54  <frosch123> what does it process? pixels + yak wool?
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18:11:16  <andythenorth> yes
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18:18:19  <andythenorth> edibles tankers!
18:18:20  <andythenorth>
18:18:22  <andythenorth> wine
18:18:42  <andythenorth> “Of course, this is not fine wine, but everyday's basic red wine. “
18:19:02  <peter1138> Tesco Value wine?
18:19:09  <frosch123> how about transporting liquid chocolate in torpedo cars?
18:19:19  <andythenorth> I do want some torpedo cars
18:19:30  <andythenorth> hmm
18:19:33  <andythenorth> edibles economy
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18:30:54  <andythenorth> hmm
18:30:56  <andythenorth> now what
18:31:00  <andythenorth> more articulated trucks I guess
18:31:06  <andythenorth> does this madness work?
18:31:48  <Wolf01> ah, btw, I saw the new Tube trains, they look really nice
18:33:16  <andythenorth> Iron Horse?
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18:37:38  <andythenorth> hmm
18:37:41  <andythenorth> this kind of works
18:37:50  <andythenorth> unexpected
18:56:10  <andythenorth> always one bloody edge case
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19:11:33  * andythenorth shaves more frigging yaks
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19:17:07  <peter1138> ok
19:17:41  <andythenorth> ok “I’ve fixed TGP”?
19:17:43  <andythenorth> or just ok?
19:18:01  <Supercheese> Shave & a Yak cut, 0.25 bytes
19:18:07  <peter1138> Just ok.
19:18:18  <peter1138> I rebooted to Windows to play Assetto Corsa for a bit.
19:18:44  <Rubidium_> ... and then Windows itself decided to reboot once more to install a
19:18:49  <Rubidium_> "few" updates
19:19:04  <peter1138> Nah, that was yesterday. To be fair it hadn't been booted for a couple of months.
19:19:13  <peter1138> Of course, there were Java updates all over the shop too :(
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19:27:22  <andythenorth> hmm
19:27:24  <andythenorth> not perfet
19:27:30  <andythenorth> or even perfect
19:27:32  <andythenorth> but then again
19:36:50  <frosch123> my work notebook needed to boot 4 times yesterday :p
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19:41:08  <andythenorth> hmm
19:41:20  <andythenorth> different offsets for trucks and trams?
19:41:35  <andythenorth> some \ / views, the trams look aligned with default trams
19:41:36  <frosch123> draw them at half scale
19:41:42  <andythenorth> but the trucks are very close to white line
19:41:51  <frosch123> so you get 4 lines instead of two
19:41:57  <frosch123> then let the trams drive in th emiddle :p
19:42:07  <andythenorth> well
19:42:11  <andythenorth> it’s an idea :P
19:42:26  <frosch123> we'll get more no-overtaking reports
19:42:59  <Supercheese> should just make all RVs noclip like ships and be done with it
19:43:12  <Supercheese> then ships would no longer be the only infinite-capacity route
19:44:09  <andythenorth> RVs already no-clip sometimes
19:44:15  <andythenorth> they can and do drive through each other
19:44:35  <peter1138> QUANTUM QUEUEING
19:44:49  <peter1138> Right let's hobble ships?
19:45:06  <andythenorth> :(
19:45:35  <andythenorth> what, just when I nearly get to 1.0 on a ship grf? :P
19:45:41  <peter1138> :D
19:46:45  <andythenorth> also
19:46:57  <andythenorth> I’m making these bloody RVs
19:47:03  <andythenorth> and none of you use RVs anyway
19:48:24  * Supercheese uses HEQS trams quite a bit, especially on 19th century starts
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20:05:03  <peter1138> "Every time I try to post a picture it's waaaay too big. How can I fix this?" < make it smaller...
20:05:53  <Rubidium_> use an older camera?
20:06:09  <Taede> for a screenshot?
20:06:39  <Rubidium_> yes
20:07:04  <Rubidium_> just get an old 320x240 camera, take a shot of the screen and voila... small screenshot
20:07:22  *** Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium
20:08:22  <frosch123> i have an old 640x480 webcam somewhere in my closet, i can sell it to you for 500€
20:14:02  <Rubidium> <- much better resolution for screen shots ;)
20:15:03  <peter1138> Rubidium, have you considered src/table/genland.h?
20:15:35  <peter1138>
20:15:45  <peter1138> Results in weird rainforest areas up there.
20:15:55  <peter1138> And there's a weird ridge too, which is something else.
20:16:19  <Rubidium> peter1138: considered in what way?
20:16:44  <peter1138> Not sure but it's related to the weird rainforest bits.
20:16:50  <peter1138> Unless that's ... normal ...
20:17:24  <Rubidium> I think rainforest is above 25% of max height
20:17:45  <frosch123> 25% of the setting, or 25% of that function depending on map size?
20:17:51  <peter1138> Hmmm
20:17:55  <Rubidium> the setting
20:18:44  <Rubidium> feel free to change it; I won't until at least monday evening
20:18:51  <Rubidium> (due to lack of development system)
20:19:17  <frosch123> i feel like coding a mapgen preview, just to be able to test the settings easier :p
20:19:34  <Rubidium> go ahead ;)
20:20:35  <andythenorth> what, you don’t like trying over and over again to understand just what effect the settings have? o_O
20:23:04  <andythenorth> hmm
20:23:06  <andythenorth> well
20:23:13  <andythenorth> now we have configurable effects
20:23:18  <andythenorth> I might as well do trucks with twin stack
20:25:27  <andythenorth> hmm
20:25:37  <andythenorth> can effects be on trailing parts of an articulated consist?
20:25:58  <frosch123> yes
20:26:12  <andythenorth> super
20:28:13  <frosch123> 3 effects per articulated part
20:28:19  <frosch123> you can create a lot of dust
20:28:36  <peter1138> frosch123, how would you preview it? Even the small map gets pretty large.
20:28:52  <frosch123> massive zoom out
20:28:56  <Rubidium> peter1138: you mean that there's a quite visible grid of areas with the same slope?
20:29:02  <Rubidium> (ridge.png)
20:29:04  <frosch123> only show height level, water, possibly desert
20:29:13  <frosch123> no rivers or fancy stuff
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20:29:41  <peter1138> Rubidium, height level 43 is... wider than the other bits.
20:29:57  <peter1138> Always 43, and it always goes around the whole map...
20:30:50  <Rubidium> doesn't sound like something logical
20:31:13  <frosch123> yeah, if it was level 42 instead, it would totally make sense
20:31:15  <peter1138> Hmm, seems like it's near a cut of point where things get steeper, so part of a non-linear scaling thing.
20:31:32  <Rubidium> smells like variety then
20:31:42  <peter1138> Hmm, actually now it's level 37.
20:31:46  <peter1138> So... not always 43.
20:31:54  <peter1138> I have variety off, so no :p
20:31:57  <Rubidium> different map size?
20:32:32  <peter1138> Hmm, yeah, that affects it.
20:32:35  <Rubidium> first mountainous 2kx2k or 4kx4k to alpinist 512x512
20:33:53  <Rubidium> it should also happen at 1.4 (around heightlevel 8)
20:34:03  <Rubidium> around line 490 of tgp.cpp
20:34:27  <Rubidium> yay for different behaviour on different landscapes
20:34:38  <peter1138> Yeah
20:40:58  <liq3> Would be pretty cool if we got cliffs next. o.o
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20:41:14  <liq3> Though I suppose without the ability to rotate that's not really possible eh?
20:41:35  <andythenorth> no cliffs
20:42:01  <andythenorth> ho ho
20:42:06  <andythenorth> ctrl-click stop start
20:42:10  <andythenorth> that makes smoke testing easier
20:42:19  <peter1138> Top-down view!
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20:42:31  <liq3> peter1138: that wouldn't help :D
20:42:35  <Rubidium> peter1138: yeah... Sim City style ;)
20:42:53  <liq3> altho, top-down view could be pretty cool.
20:42:59  <peter1138> liq3, it would.
20:43:12  <Rubidium> it's called smallmap though ;)
20:43:28  <Rubidium> and a nuisance with bridges
20:44:05  <liq3> alpinist 4k map. wow.
20:44:11  <liq3> Got huge mountain ranges.
20:44:16  <andythenorth> yeah, twin stack trucks
20:44:23  <andythenorth> dunno, maybe I should effect spawn steam :P
20:44:24  <Rubidium> liq3: but so unreal
20:44:33  <liq3> who cares? want interesting gameplay not realism.
20:45:36  <liq3> wish they could be even steeper. Not really possible without cliffs tho.
20:45:54  <Rubidium> did some calculations... you can't have a French map with Mont Ventoux on it (it would be either too low or too wide), and if you want the Mont Blanc tunnel with realistic overburden (amount of rock above it), you are limited to about 60 meter pet tile at 4kx4k
20:46:12  <Rubidium> s/pet/per/
20:47:57  <peter1138>
20:48:12  <andythenorth> much better
20:48:14  <peter1138> Sort of like that... except draw all slopes as flat tiles.
20:48:18  <andythenorth> so much clearer
20:48:27  <peter1138> Then your cliffs don't get in the way.
20:48:35  <peter1138> Buildings might, somewhat :p
20:48:56  <andythenorth> hurgh, steam spawn model is crap for disiesel trucks
20:49:01  <Supercheese> every building is the leaning tower of pisa :P
20:49:31  <Rubidium> peter1138: just crop the top "tile" size (with mask) from the builing and you got a top view ;)
20:49:32  <andythenorth> cba to write a custom effect generator
20:50:00  <andythenorth> frosch123: is there a spawn effect that is constant?
20:51:00  <frosch123> constant smoke per time, independent of speed, acceleration and everything?
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20:51:04  <frosch123> why?
20:52:18  <andythenorth> then I can modify the behaviour in the cb
20:52:22  <andythenorth> or do I miss something?
20:52:39  <frosch123> ah, that way
20:53:01  <frosch123> well, sounds like a dangerious box
20:53:07  <andythenorth> sounds like BAD FEATURE
20:53:11  <frosch123> what rate shouild it use?
20:53:17  <andythenorth> yeah dunno
20:53:27  <frosch123> should it check for start/stop/loading/...
20:53:27  <andythenorth> just think trucks should make more smoke going up hill
20:53:34  <Rubidium> frosch123: 0/0
20:53:51  <frosch123> andythenorth: does the diesel model not do that?
20:53:54  <andythenorth> diesel spawn is a bit too low-pollution imo
20:54:05  <andythenorth> dunno, maybe these trucks have too much hp
20:54:15  <andythenorth> let’s see
20:54:31  <andythenorth> as you’d expect, the code is written for trains...
20:54:35  <Supercheese> Complaining about insufficient pollution...
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20:55:11  <andythenorth> yeah if I cripple the hp they smoke a lot
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20:56:15  <andythenorth> but are uselessly slow :)
20:58:23  <peter1138> Reduce the threshold for RVs
20:58:33  <andythenorth> shocking suggestion
20:58:40  <peter1138> And maybe factor in last service date for diesel fumes.
21:00:12  <andythenorth> an intermittent effect would be nice
21:00:26  <andythenorth> due to changing gear, going round corners, other realisms crap
21:00:46  <peter1138> They need to slow down a lot more, round bends.
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21:01:20  <peter1138> Parking in a non-drive-thru road stop is ... scary.
21:02:40  <andythenorth> ho ho 303, like a Roland
21:02:41  <andythenorth>
21:02:52  <andythenorth> try the broadrock, maybe on some mountains
21:03:07  <andythenorth> twin stack smoke, should it be further apart?
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21:04:55  <andythenorth> ha ha
21:05:02  <andythenorth> more height levels
21:05:11  <andythenorth> proper test of these RVs :P
21:05:36  <andythenorth> could make a 2048x2048 quarry map
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21:19:07  <frosch123> night
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21:25:21  <andythenorth> hmm
21:25:24  <andythenorth> where is smoke
21:26:20  <andythenorth> vehicle.cpp
21:27:19  <andythenorth> For trains, power and weight come in handy too to either increase smoke emission in
21:27:20  <andythenorth> 				 * 6 steps (1000HP each) if the power is low or decrease smoke emission in 6 steps (512 tonnes each) if the train
21:27:21  <andythenorth> 				 * isn't overweight. Power and weight contributions are expressed in a way that neither extreme power, nor
21:27:22  <andythenorth> 				 * extreme weight can ruin the balance (e.g. FreightWagonMultiplier) in the formula.
21:30:38  * andythenorth understands the words
21:30:46  <andythenorth> just not when they’re all put together
21:36:48  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:38:54  <peter1138> See we don't have acceleration limits (beyond max tractive effort)
21:39:10  <peter1138> So vehicles always put out as much power as possible.
21:39:28  <peter1138> Therefore you can't put out smoke based on how much load the engine is under, because it's always full load.
21:40:01  <peter1138> But hey, it's not a vehicle simulator :D
21:42:33  <andythenorth> well
21:42:43  <andythenorth> is power_weight_effect of any use for RVs?
21:46:02  <peter1138> No idea.
21:46:36  <andythenorth> I can’t figure out what it actually does
21:46:43  <andythenorth> or why it’s foolproof
21:48:32  <peter1138> We've got five years, that's all we've got.
21:49:02  <andythenorth> now I have to listen to Bowie
21:49:05  <andythenorth> and it’s bedtime :(
21:52:09  <peter1138> It was on the radio.
21:52:26  <peter1138> But yes, it's bedtime.
21:53:26  <andythenorth> also
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21:53:49  <andythenorth> hmm
21:53:55  <andythenorth> default effects
21:54:00  <andythenorth> tomorrow’s party
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22:39:02  <argoneus> good night train friends
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23:21:25  <liq3> my town got smaller. wut.
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