Log for #openttd on 19th October 2014:
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00:06:29  <argoneus> good night train friends
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00:51:56  <supermop> hi
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03:41:38  <supermop> hi
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04:29:37  <supermop> i wish houses could change over time
04:43:01  <supermop> Pikka: saw your boat tour pictures - are you leaning more towards the modern end up there?
04:45:51  <Pikka> well, I could only photograph what was by the river from the boat :)
04:46:32  <Pikka> I do like some of those buildings for modern built-up, but I'll need to do a walking tour around some of the suburbs for older inspiration.
04:47:04  <Pikka> actually I was out at new farm on friday night and there's some gorgeous low-level deco apartment buildings around the park. You don't see them in other parts of brisbane.
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04:50:45  <supermop> yeah i saw some cool 20s or 30s looking stuff around there
04:51:38  <supermop> we have a lot of art deco and international pubs and commercial buildings in some areas, but very little in the way of housing
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05:37:16  <supermop> should an australian house set have lighting flipped?
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06:01:36  <supermop> tough room
06:02:43  <supermop> ok so how about this: can sidewalks change based on town zone, or do trees etc just get layered over the same sidewalk sprite
06:03:29  <supermop> and if the latter is true, I guess one could make "trees" that are a rectangle of different pavement?
06:04:14  <supermop> Most areas in this city have bluestone curbs (kerbs) with asphalt pavement as the sidewalk surface,
06:05:23  <supermop> but "fancy" areas in the cbd, and some other high streets have larger, finely honed bluestone blocks forming both the curb and pavement
06:06:30  <supermop> since both of those materials are black/dark grey I guess it does not matter, but i was thinking of drawing the 'trees' and 'lamposts' areas as the fancier stone
06:07:53  <supermop> i wonder if it is worth modelling a road/sidewalk, or just take a texture of one and skew it into a dimetric rectangle in photoshop
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06:15:42  <Supercheese> I do not know
06:20:25  <Pikka> there's only the two road types, paved for the low town zones and unpaved outisde.
06:20:34  <Pikka> until andy codes us roadtypes
06:21:23  <supermop> andythenorth: i want fancy roads
06:21:31  <Supercheese> gib roadtypes
06:21:39  <andythenorth> roadtypes are a bad feature
06:21:44  <Supercheese> so?
06:21:51  <Supercheese> that has not stopped you in the past
06:22:08  <supermop> Pikka: but one could abuse the boulevard trees to make fancy sidewalks?
06:22:29  <supermop> other option i considered was regauging roads
06:23:14  <supermop> so the sidewalk area was 'road', perhaps street parking or such, and then draw sidewalks onto the front of the houses
06:24:32  <supermop> that way roads are visually bigger, but not really out of scale with existing RV or whatever
06:24:44  <andythenorth> Pikka: can haz zeps (pm)
06:24:53  <andythenorth> offsets and what not aren’t sorted yet
06:24:59  <Pikka> that latter option could work well, supermop.
06:25:12  <supermop> and sidewalk can vary based on building - sidewalk cafes etc
06:25:51  <Pikka> abusing the trees might cause layering problems. and a lot of people (well, me) have "full detail" turned off and so don't get those trees anyway.
06:26:28  <supermop> usually developer of a large building is responsible for furnishing and maintaining the sidewalk anyway
06:27:29  <V453000> andythenorth make roadtypes immudeately!
06:28:24  <andythenorth> V453000: only after watertypes
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06:28:31  <Pikka> skytypes
06:28:33  <V453000> k
06:29:10  <Pikka> openttd is a bad game because it doesn't accurately model turbulence above mountains.
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06:29:56  <andythenorth> should revert more height levels
06:29:58  <andythenorth> on that basis
06:31:27  <Supercheese> you could probably model that in a plane grf actually
06:31:32  <Supercheese> query aircraft height above ground
06:31:35  <Supercheese> reduce max speed
06:31:41  <andythenorth> also aircraft should get a service ceiling
06:31:44  <andythenorth> maybe 128
06:31:53  * Pikka appoints Supercheese the new king of BAD FEATURES
06:32:05  <supermop> cant find texture i want for sidewalks - must go downtown and figure out a way to photograph
06:32:22  * Pikka out
06:32:27  <Pikka> I shall check ze zeps later, andy
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06:32:38  <Supercheese> Rex facultatum malarum
06:32:57  <Supercheese> or allcaps
06:32:59  <Supercheese> meh
06:33:03  <supermop> strike up a medal with that
06:33:10  <Supercheese> Hah
06:33:25  <supermop> mail one out each year to one person
06:33:45  <Supercheese> don't give us any ideas
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06:36:05  <supermop> alright, if i come up with some road graphics by tuesday, anyone want to code them?
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06:57:33  <andythenorth> hmm
06:57:36  <andythenorth> come back pikka
07:00:48  <Supercheese> is beautiful
07:01:09  <Supercheese> pixel art at its finest
07:01:38  <Supercheese> or well, certainly near its finest at least
07:02:15  <Supercheese> Only took, what, seven years to get coded?
07:08:48  <andythenorth> roofs are lit wrong in \ view
07:08:58  * andythenorth nitpick
07:09:32  <supermop>  scrap it all
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07:45:35  <supermop>
07:45:47  <supermop> we need rusty washing machines as new objects
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07:48:15  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
07:48:25  <Alberth> moin
07:49:19  <Alberth> in case you're still contemplating what to do next, there seems to be a demand for north-american pixels :)
07:54:10  <Supercheese> Pikka's updating NARS soon, eh?
07:58:10  <planetifex> moin
07:59:08  <supermop> hi
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09:08:44  <peter1138> 7 years to get coded, since then we have 32bpp 4x zoom ;p
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09:34:43  <argoneus> good morning train friends
09:36:09  <supermop> hi
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09:55:50  <NGC3982> Is there a rough estimate on how much bandwith playing on a ttd server is used?
09:56:06  <NGC3982> Speed is not the issue, but the network cap is a bit sensitive at my location
09:56:16  <NGC3982> And it is unfortunately hard to measure at the moment.
09:57:02  <Alberth>   ?
09:57:29  <Alberth> you didn't think you'd be the first with that question eh?  :)
09:57:50  <SpComb> joining a game uses a savegame's worth of bandwidth
09:58:04  <SpComb> that FAQ doesn't actually say that :)
09:58:29  <NGC3982> Alberth: Hehe. Thanks a bunch.
09:58:33  <Alberth> feel free to adjust :)
09:58:43  <SpComb> after joining it's perfectly playable on a 40kbps GPRS link
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10:27:44  <George> A CREATE_EFFECT related question - does it happen when vehicle is not powered?
10:27:59  <George> for example wrong rails?
10:31:07  <George> and according power. Is vehicles_is_powered()  true when power CB returns 0?
10:32:26  <frosch123> it checks the railtype, but not the power
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11:10:00  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't make a lot of sense
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11:15:33  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, it seems that video playback in chromium is broken. it works in firefox :(
11:17:15  <__ln__>
11:17:31  <supermop> i have no desire to play a regular game of openttd here
11:17:41  <supermop> anyone want to play mp
11:19:51  <supermop> oooh buck was just shipped from germany
11:19:54  <supermop> *book
11:20:42  <peter1138> __ln__, doesn't look like a submarine...
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11:27:57  <__ln__> peter1138: what about a support ship for a submarine?
11:35:04  <frosch123> to prevent it from sinking?
11:47:37  <Alberth> smuggling operations, highly profitable :p
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12:33:26  <peter1138> Why do planes always circle :S
12:33:37  <peter1138> Should be no need
12:33:45  <peter1138> Unless it's busy of course.
12:34:13  <__ln__> only harrier can hover
12:34:25  <peter1138> Eh
12:39:44  <planetifex> airports have well-described approaches, so a circle is not unrealistic
12:56:23  <SHOTbyGUN> yeah blaim the ATC not the plane :)
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13:41:34  <Wolf01> hi hi
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13:47:01  <argoneus> I know this is not the best channel
13:47:08  <argoneus> but is anyone here well versed in microphones / audio in general?
13:49:00  <peter1138> Sort of.
13:49:41  <argoneus> any idea if there are desktop microphones that have a reach of 0.5 - 0.6m with decent quality and no static?
13:49:47  <argoneus> (that don't cost 0)
13:50:18  <argoneus> what I've seen so far, microphones need you to be quite close, no?
13:50:32  <__ln__> argoneus: this _is_ the best channel for a lot of things, from linear algebra to poetry.
13:51:03  <Wolf01> you seem confused with xkcd
13:58:00  <peter1138> Usually you use a microphone up close to avoid other unwanted sounds being picked up.
13:59:34  <peter1138> If it's further then you need to increase the gain, which increases all the background noises.
14:01:07  <peter1138> If you're recording a loud source (singing?) then that's less of an issue.
14:02:27  <peter1138> Regarding types...
14:03:01  <peter1138> A shotgun mic might give best results.
14:03:40  <peter1138> argoneus,
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14:28:23  <peter1138> Gah, must not rewrite plane handling...
14:36:08  <Alberth> I have a patch to send an aircraft to a given tile with a given heading somewhere
14:36:41  <Alberth> it computes a flight path
14:36:45  <Wolf01> zellepin buoys
14:38:52  <Alberth> my original idea was to make a big circle around a cluster of airport to collect aircraft, and for each runway assign 2 aircraft that circle just in front of the assigned runway
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15:21:19  <andythenorth> eagle flew out of the night
15:21:25  <andythenorth> he was something to observe
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16:09:04  <andythenorth> any of you want to do the nfo so CHIPS supports snow?
16:09:08  <andythenorth> I’ll draw the snow...
16:09:43  <andythenorth> the nfo is GRM magic, I’m not touching it
16:11:38  <Rubidium> I think you'll need to talk to a GRM specialist then ;)
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16:16:51  <andythenorth> :P
16:17:04  <andythenorth> no snow for you then
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16:22:38  <argoneus> peter1138: thanks
16:23:09  <Rubidium> andythenorth: given the amount of time I play (:(), once you've drawn it... it'll take me a few years before I've seen your snowy tiles for the same amount of time ;)
16:23:43  <andythenorth> :P
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16:33:26  <peter1138> Hmm, xBRZ looks interesting, but it is GPLv3 :S
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16:50:17  <andythenorth> more scalers?
16:55:49  <peter1138> Meh
16:55:56  <peter1138> Whatever happened to P1SIM?
16:56:33  <peter1138> Heh, so much for isometric :)
17:00:04  <andythenorth> he did a release in Feb? STR_NAME_SUFFIX_FOUNDRY_TRAM                                    :Foundry Tram
17:00:04  <andythenorth> STR_NAME_SUFFIX_FOUNDRY_HAULER                                  :Foundry Hauler
17:00:10  <andythenorth> hmm
17:00:13  <andythenorth> c+p oopsie
17:00:14  <andythenorth>
17:00:19  <andythenorth> could have been worse :P
17:07:15  <peter1138> Heh, I forgot that GeekToo's EZ patch only worked with one of the 32bpp blitters...
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17:23:54  <peter1138> ok maybe 3-tile stations was a bit short
17:28:21  <V453000> iz not
17:40:11  <peter1138> Yeah but, they're only 2 platform, and I only have double-track.
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17:40:50  <peter1138> Dinger 1000 to the rescue :p
18:02:24  <Wolf01> lol, from the first comment on the pricing page of P1SIM: "Looks like the alpha release date has changed from 2013 to 2016. I think I should stop checking everyday
18:02:24  <peter1138> Alberth, zig-zag down is "realism"
18:04:06  <Alberth> peter1138: sadly lacking in openttd, derailing at the bottom of a hill would be good game play, imo :)
18:04:44  <peter1138> Yeah, it's not possible to pass the maximum speed, and then we brake instantly anyway...
18:05:29  <peter1138> But generally people building zig-zags are going for "realism" and looks, otherwise you'd just flatten the hill
18:05:53  <Alberth> true
18:06:22  <Alberth> although in the latter case, it's easier to start with a flat world :)
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19:06:30  <andythenorth> Alberth: MHL = “this one goes to 11"
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19:06:47  <andythenorth>
19:07:31  <Alberth> so it seems
19:07:42  <Alberth> ie another form of "big map"
19:08:41  <Wolf01> "demonstrates an amplifier whose volume knob is marked from zero to eleven, instead of the usual zero to ten."
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19:08:50  <Wolf01> then it is 12
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19:10:12  <andythenorth> in principle, if we knew how to make more interesting terrain gen, it could make more interesting maps
19:10:16  <andythenorth> even on 256x256
19:10:49  <andythenorth> like a map that slopes continuously up from sea in one direction
19:11:09  <Wolf01> that one would be cool
19:11:10  <andythenorth> and all the industry at the top and bottom
19:12:10  <andythenorth> or an island with obscene peak in the middle
19:12:18  <andythenorth> so that routing is better around the edges
19:12:32  <Rubidium> andythenorth: trying the stepped heightmap at 256x256. Good luck building there
19:12:39  <Rubidium> s/stepped/staircase/
19:12:55  <andythenorth> there’s a stepped heightmap? o_O
19:13:39  <Rubidium> don't forget to set max height to 255
19:13:59  <andythenorth> perfect cube :P
19:14:10  <andythenorth> can I set 256x256x256, flat, no sea borders?
19:14:11  <andythenorth> :P
19:14:39  <Rubidium> no, you can set 256x256x255 in SE
19:14:46  <andythenorth> remember non-freeform map edges?
19:14:49  <Zuu> Just make a gradient in GIMP?
19:14:50  <andythenorth> that one was a nice patch
19:14:57  <andythenorth> meh, heightmaps
19:15:02  <Zuu> Or whatever paint program you got.
19:15:11  <andythenorth> I did some heightmaps, they’re never worth the effort
19:15:21  <andythenorth> easier to hit newgame until TGP produces something not ugly
19:15:31  <andythenorth> only takes about 20 or 30 goes normally
19:15:47  <Wolf01> the problem is that we lack of step slopes and half height levels, which limit on the layouts, I have some really interesting maps in mind, but I can make them only in LoMo, something like ravines and high vertical rocks
19:16:12  <andythenorth> hmm
19:16:21  <andythenorth> it’s as much about where towns and industries are as the terrain
19:16:39  <andythenorth> maybe I should make FIRS more opinionated :P
19:17:35  <Rubidium> regarding realism and MHL... we need tunnels that leave at a different heightlevel than where they enter, and likewise with bridges
19:18:02  <andythenorth> bridges can, no?
19:18:29  <Rubidium> not really
19:18:33  <andythenorth> spiral tunnel patch?
19:18:58  <andythenorth> tunnel exit and entrance face same direction, but 10 height levels distant
19:19:14  <Rubidium> one heightlevel is not significant enough, and... you need a flat-ish tile for that anyhow, which means more terraforming
19:19:31  <andythenorth> bridges = slopey graphics
19:19:34  <andythenorth> ugly schmugly
19:19:44  <andythenorth> sloped tunnels otoh...
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19:21:29  * Rubidium waves to the NW
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20:05:13  <planetifex> north-west, Rubidium ?
20:12:31  <planetifex> so... snowlevels, and height level setting... it's a tricky issue
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20:25:38  <Eddi|zuHause> but, isn't "planet" a greek word?
20:25:59  <Eddi|zuHause> and "-fex" latin?
20:26:29  <planetifex> planetòs is. It's the hiker or wanderer
20:27:27  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, because they're wandering stars
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20:36:04  <frosch123> night
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20:37:21  <andythenorth> hmm
20:37:28  * andythenorth invents BAD FEATURE
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20:55:55  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:27:40  <andythenorth> bed
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21:33:47  <Eddi|zuHause> so it's now a bed feature?
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21:39:42  <Supercheese> bead feature
21:44:05  <LordAro> bread feature
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21:54:49  <Supercheese> fad breacher
21:55:14  <Supercheese> or beacher
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22:11:32  <supermop> good morning
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22:25:38  <argoneus> good night train friends
22:31:48  <rrix> Urgh, I turned on zBase, and it looks really great, but none of the GRFs I have support 32bpp :(
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22:41:05  <liq3> rrix: you need to play YETI then :D
22:41:20  <rrix> Yeah I do, though I was just getting used to FIRS
22:43:29  <Eddi|zuHause> you can spend ages getting used to FIRS, and then it just changes...
22:44:08  <Eddi|zuHause> andy does not have a very steady and focused mind :p
22:45:16  <rrix> heh
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22:52:01  <peter1138> zBase smells anyway.
22:52:12  <NGC3982> I guess someone around here has tried the new Sim City game?
22:53:24  <liq3> man I'm gonna have to try FIRS with NUTS sometime. Should be fun.
22:55:56  <peter1138> NGC3982, I wouldn't want to ruin my memories of the best version of Sim City...
22:58:08  <NGC3982> :)
23:08:33  <Supercheese> Simcity 2000, good times
23:10:00  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: inverse horror sim city?
23:11:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i briefly thought about getting the new sim city, but then decided i don't need origin crap contaminating my system...
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23:27:24  <NGC3982> The game itself looks absolutely amazing
23:27:29  <NGC3982> I have never seen anything like it
23:33:50  <supermop> like sim city 4?
23:34:19  <NGC3982> Not even close.
23:36:25  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, they were... adequate... graphics, at the time.
23:36:48  <peter1138> Of course, bearing in mind there was only 32KB RAM in total back then, and 10KB of that was used for VRAM...
23:38:30  <peter1138> And then 6.25 KB was used by the system...
23:38:57  <peter1138> Hmm, so yeah, all your code, and all your data, in 15.75KB.
23:39:03  <supermop> my favorite classic feature of SC4 is the constant and unpredictable crashes to desktop
23:39:10  <supermop> really kept you on your toes
23:42:35  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: well, the first sim city i ever played had EGA support...
23:42:58  <Eddi|zuHause> with like 640x400 and 64 colours
23:43:01  <peter1138> Ridiculous!
23:43:11  <peter1138> 16 colours actually.
23:43:24  <Eddi|zuHause> 16 out of 64 or something like that
23:43:30  <peter1138> But that's a whole 128KB just for the display memory! Impossible!
23:43:39  <peter1138> Well, 128000 bytes, anyway.
23:44:01  <peter1138> Actually
23:44:18  <peter1138> It would've been 640x200 or possibly 640x350, but more likely 200.
23:44:48  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'm pretty sure that it was 640x400
23:45:04  <peter1138> No, 640x350.
23:45:10  <Eddi|zuHause> it was just short of VGA's 640x480
23:45:11  <peter1138> EGA couldn't do 640x400
23:45:42  <peter1138> And yeah, I played that version too.
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23:45:46  <Eddi|zuHause> it certainly wasn't 200, because that would be weirdly distorted pixels
23:45:59  <peter1138> Non-square pixels were fine on CRTs.
23:46:33  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but text looks awkward...
23:46:33  <peter1138> 640x350 was non-square as well, just not as bad.
23:46:45  <glx> yeah like mode 0 on amstrad, with nice rectangular pixels
23:47:35  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a mode called "MCGA" which was 320x200 with 256 colours
23:48:03  <peter1138> Yes
23:48:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i think Civ 1 used that
23:48:16  <peter1138> Correct.
23:48:28  <Eddi|zuHause> with palette-animated water and stuff
23:48:34  <peter1138>

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