Log for #openttd on 23rd October 2014:
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03:37:42  <supermop> hmm looks like my work computer turned off?
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08:14:19  <argoneus> good morning, train friends
08:16:20  <V453000> no morning
08:16:21  <V453000> no friends
08:19:28  <argoneus> why are you so negative every mornink
08:19:29  <argoneus> :(
08:19:37  <argoneus> it's not even monday anymore
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08:20:45  <V453000> (:
08:21:07  <argoneus> by the way
08:21:10  <Rubidium> though what's the problem with monday?
08:21:18  <argoneus> Rubidium: it's not sunday anymore
08:21:20  <argoneus> that's the problem
08:21:22  <argoneus> also V453000
08:21:28  <Rubidium> what's so great about sunday?
08:21:36  <peter1138> # Tell me why, I don't like Mondays...
08:21:39  <argoneus> when you get to work every morning, does it take you like 30 minutes to wake up before you can actually start working?
08:21:54  <Rubidium> argoneus: no
08:23:03  * Rubidium usually wakes just before his alarm, and on the same time when the alarm isn't set (i.e. the days when not working)
08:23:26  <Rubidium> as such I'm not interupted in my REM sleep and don't feel tired the whole day
08:25:00  <argoneus> I don't have the discipline to go to bed before midnight
08:25:10  <argoneus> because it feels like I am wasting time
08:25:16  <argoneus> so I usually go to bed around 1, and miss the window
08:25:26  <argoneus> and then when I get up at 8, I'm off by ~30 minutes
08:25:29  <argoneus> and super tired the entire morning
08:25:43  <argoneus> it's actually kind of funny
08:25:53  <argoneus> when I go to bed at 1 and wake up at 8, I'm more tired than if I go to bed at 5 and wake up at 11
08:25:56  <peter1138> At least you know it's your own damn fault.
08:26:06  <argoneus> I dunno
08:26:10  <argoneus> I just want to sleep until my body wants to wake up
08:26:16  <argoneus> not until an alarm reminds me of things I have to do
08:26:25  <Rubidium> argoneus: so go to bed earlier
08:26:33  <argoneus> also, fun story
08:26:36  <argoneus> I woke up today at 8
08:26:44  <argoneus> and took my phone to read news etc for like 10 minutes before I wake up
08:26:53  <argoneus> and suddenly it was 8:40, phone still in my hands, and I don't remember reading anything
08:27:00  * argoneus shrugs
08:27:06  <peter1138> I blame 24 hour TV.
08:27:43  <peter1138> Used to be that when the TV stations were getting ready for closing for the night, you knew it was late...
08:28:12  <argoneus> I don't even watch TV
08:28:29  <argoneus> but yeah
08:28:44  <argoneus> since I get home at like 19, I don't really want to go to bed early
08:28:50  <argoneus> I want to have some fun too :<
08:28:52  <Rubidium> peter1138: the only TV channels that I know that make anywhere near 24 hours of TV a day are from the BBC. The rest has like 30% commercials, so only 17 hours of actual content per day
08:29:14  <peter1138> argoneus, bed early is 20:00.
08:29:58  <Rubidium> argoneus: so... go to bed at 23:30, wake up by yourself at ~06:55, at the office at 07:30 (yay short commute), back home at 16:15... that's 7 hours for fun stuff
08:30:29  <argoneus> Rubidium: what's the latest research on sleeping anyway?
08:30:35  <argoneus> is it still cycles that take 1 hr 30 mi?
08:30:37  <argoneus> min*
08:30:44  <argoneus> or are there any news about that
08:31:16  <peter1138> Funny to think the BBC used to play our national anthem every single night...
08:31:17  <Rubidium> I'm not subscribed to medical papers, so I wouldn't know... but it sounds like the things I heard
08:32:08  <argoneus> I don't know, my sleeping is weird
08:32:13  <argoneus> on weekends I usually sleep like 11 hours
08:32:17  <argoneus> naturally, that is
08:32:31  <argoneus> maybe I should exercise more
08:32:40  <argoneus> s/more//
08:32:56  <peter1138> That happens to me when I stay up too late.
08:32:57  <Eddi|zuHause> sleeping is overrated
08:33:15  <argoneus> I just like nights
08:33:18  * Rubidium has a hard time sleeping more than 7.5 hours
08:33:31  <argoneus> it's dark, quiet, people who play online games are nice, because all the children are sleeping
08:33:46  <argoneus> and working on  school assignments is easier at night too
08:34:12  <argoneus> maybe my sleeping has something to do with me staying in front of a bright 24'' screen all day long
08:34:16  <peter1138> And it makes you fucked in the morning, Yay.
08:34:22  <Eddi|zuHause> if i don't have anywhere to go, i tend to doze off again for 2h after i wake up
08:34:32  <argoneus> actually
08:34:38  <argoneus> if I have to wake up at 8, I set alarms at 7:30 and 8
08:34:43  <argoneus> and the 7:30 is just my pleasure alarm
08:34:56  <argoneus> aka wake up, turn it off, realize I can still sleep a bit more, fall asleep again, enjoy that feeling
08:35:19  <Rubidium> oh... dozing off after you alarm for a few minutes is even worse than just waking up right away w.r.t. tiredness
08:35:21  <argoneus> but I don't think that could make me fucked
08:35:34  <argoneus> Rubidium: is it actually bad?
08:35:52  <Rubidium> argoneus: my imperical research has quite definitely proven that
08:35:59  <Eddi|zuHause> half an hour is definitely not enough
08:36:29  <Rubidium> Eddi's 2 hours might be okay, but a relatively short amount of time is devastating for me
08:37:32  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, since today is a day where i have to go somewhere, i should get a shower...
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08:48:08  <planetmaker> tmi
08:52:15  <dihedral> oi :-)
08:52:28  <argoneus> ayyyy
09:00:16  <supermop> does Eddi|zuHause  actually ever sleep?
09:00:30  <argoneus> maybe he just hibernates
09:00:43  <supermop> on every continent i've been on, you seem to be active on irc whenever i log on
09:00:58  <argoneus> supermop: do you move between continents overnight?
09:01:27  <supermop> over two nights last time
09:01:49  * planetmaker has seen him sleeping. So that question can doubtlessly be answered with 'yes'
09:01:53  <__ln__> argoneus: supermop stays where he is, the continents move
09:02:07  <planetmaker> __ln__, should be able to confirm :P
09:02:41  <__ln__> actually i can't, because i slept at a hotel
09:03:06  <planetmaker> true. Forgot that
09:03:23  <Rubidium> supermop: have you proven that Eddi|zuHause isn't some avatar of a bot?
09:03:38  <supermop> i actually believe he is a hive mind
09:03:43  <Rubidium> and if so, then it continuously sleeps for short periods of time
09:04:02  <supermop> but on this continent there is about an hour of light left and i am going to use it to take a walk
09:04:07  <Rubidium> alternatively... you haven't been in/at the right continent
09:04:24  <Eddi|zuHause> <__ln__> argoneus: supermop stays where he is, the continents move <-- my father used to say this about trains and stations
09:04:47  <__ln__> supermop: a walk... oh no, is your car broken?
09:06:07  * Rubidium would have proposed a space walk, but there you generally have 45 minutes of light at a time
09:08:47  <argoneus> it's easy to prove he's not a bot
09:08:59  <Rubidium> argoneus: how?
09:09:31  <argoneus> let's assume he was a bot, bots don't have parents, he said his father used to say something, which implies he had a father, thus the original statement is true
09:09:47  <V453000> my ass is grass
09:10:57  <Rubidium> argoneus: you know that in certain fields of AI the progress happens due to evolution? Therefor, an AI of such make does have a parent
09:12:07  <argoneus> Rubidium: except in genetical algorithms the parents don't communicate with their offsprings, they just give them the best part of themselves
09:12:21  <Eddi|zuHause> * Rubidium would have proposed a space walk, but there you generally have 45 minutes of light at a time <-- on the ISS orbit?
09:13:13  <Rubidium> furthermore, certain people say they don't have parents. Are they bots? Saying you have or haven't something isn't proof, unless it is verified by a trusted third party
09:13:14  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: data definitely called his creator "father"
09:13:49  <Eddi|zuHause> and some people have a "father" that's not their birth parent
09:14:47  <argoneus> okay
09:14:50  <argoneus> but why would anyone make an AI
09:15:04  <argoneus> that lurks around IRC 24/7 and creates mods for a 20 year old game about trains?
09:15:36  <Eddi|zuHause> why would a human lurk around IRC 24/7 and create mods for a 20 year old game about trains?
09:15:37  <Rubidium> argoneus: same argument, but replace AI with child
09:16:06  <argoneus> are there parents that say
09:16:15  <argoneus> "jimmy, when you grow up, I want you to make the best trainset everyone will love"
09:16:51  <planetmaker> * Rubidium would have proposed a space walk, but there you generally have 45 minutes of light at a time <-- actually you have more than 50% of the time covered in the sun ;)
09:17:08  <Eddi|zuHause> are there parents that say: "when you grow up, i want you to make a website that is super efficient at finding other websites"?
09:17:40  <Rubidium> planetmaker: yeah, refraction, and being outside of blocking power of the ellipsoid, but still...
09:18:15  <planetmaker> @calc (6781+300 ) / 6781
09:18:15  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 1.04424126235
09:18:39  <Rubidium> @calc 24*60/15.51
09:18:39  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 92.8433268859
09:18:51  <Rubidium> @calc 24*60/15.51/2*1.044
09:18:51  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 48.4642166344
09:18:56  <Eddi|zuHause> ISS orbit is 300km?
09:19:05  <planetmaker> 300 ... 400km, yes
09:19:41  <Rubidium> okay... so rounded to the nearest quarter hour still 45 minutes
09:19:48  <planetmaker> :)
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09:20:13  <Rubidium> after all, the orbit duration is off by almost 3 minutes as well from 90 minutes
09:20:40  <Rubidium> and I reckon the orbit duration fluctuates a bit as well
09:20:58  <planetmaker> that also assumes that the ISS's plane is currently aligned such that it passes behind the Earth at all. The plane of orbit with respect to the sun doesn't change
09:21:34  <planetmaker> two days a year it's such that it's never dark. Add those where it's never dark as it's higher than Earth's radius. So... night is much less than day over the year
09:22:08  <Rubidium> the inclination is 51.6 degrees from the equator
09:22:33  <Eddi|zuHause> that's definitely using the wrong definition of "night"
09:22:33  <planetmaker> yes. But looking from the outside you always find a direction where a circle around the Earth is never passing behind
09:22:52  <Eddi|zuHause> like, why would the enterprise need a "night crew" by that definition?
09:23:06  <planetmaker> this situation happens at twice a year, and more as the circle is greater than the earth's diameter
09:23:30  <Rubidium> basically bumping between the south of England to the south of Argentina
09:23:54  <Rubidium> as far as I am aware, it is never light for the whole day in England
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09:24:30  <argoneus> wow I want +v too
09:25:19  <planetmaker> sure, argoneus, write us a port to an obscure device in a way the patches can be accepted in trunk :)
09:25:21  <Eddi|zuHause> "i'm a RL buddy of DorpsGek, please give me op!"?
09:26:10  <Rubidium> furthermore, in Oslo the amount of hours of "daylight" is 5:54 on the shortest. Since this is more northern and an orbit is 90 minutes, it must go through the dark there
09:26:19  <argoneus> did he port the game to a calculator or what
09:26:40  <Eddi|zuHause> something like that
09:27:06  <Rubidium> likewise, if it is dark at the northern hemisphere for only 6 hours, it must be dark at the southern hemisphere for 18 hours, so in the end it's swings and roundabouts
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09:29:14  <planetmaker> argoneus, check the credits of OpenTTD... it will tell you his contribution. Or the readme
09:29:39  <planetmaker> he ported it to MorphOS and AmigaOS
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09:35:04  <Rubidium> we could give argoneus +q if he wants to have that ;)
09:39:45  <argoneus> ;)
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09:47:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27032 /trunk (6 files in 3 dirs) (2014-10-23 09:47:15 UTC)
09:47:23  <DorpsGek> -Merge: documentation updates from 1.4 branch
09:47:35  <supermop> ok it was much less than an hour of light
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10:49:31  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by matthijs :: r27033 trunk/src/textfile_gui.cpp (2014-10-23 10:49:14 UTC)
10:49:32  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Codechange: Generalize GetTextfile for multiple extensions
10:49:33  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain:   - Instead of hardcoding the .txt extension in a printf string, it is
10:49:34  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain:     now stored in an array of possible extensions. This array still only
10:49:35  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain:     contains .txt, so behaviour is unchanged, but this makes it easier
10:49:36  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...)
10:49:39  <DorpsGek> Commit by matthijs :: r27034 trunk/src/textfile_gui.cpp (2014-10-23 10:49:16 UTC)
10:49:40  <DorpsGek> -Feature: Support .txt.gz changelog, readme and license files in basesets, newgrfs, etc
10:49:43  <DorpsGek> Commit by matthijs :: r27035 trunk/src/textfile_gui.cpp (2014-10-23 10:49:19 UTC)
10:49:44  <DorpsGek> -Feature: Support .txt.xz changelog, readme and license files in basesets, newgrfs, etc
10:50:40  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27036 trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp (2014-10-23 10:50:34 UTC)
10:50:41  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6148] (r26928): crash when changing smallmap colour when the smallmap window has not been opened yet
11:07:28  <blathijs> TrueBrain: ^^ Why is DorpsGek prefixing your name to the first commit?
11:09:50  <V453000> plain evil
11:10:07  <blathijs> Claiming credit, that TrueBrain
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11:17:41  <peter1138> weird :)
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11:30:15  <Celestar1> wow a commit :P
11:32:11  <peter1138> That happens... but not often from blathijs :)
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11:33:06  <blathijs> :-)
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11:40:31  <andythenorth> V453000: I had a stupid idea
11:40:37  <Celestar1> heya blathijs
11:40:55  <V453000> andythenorth: one? :D
11:40:56  <V453000> :P
11:40:58  <andythenorth> just the one
11:41:02  <andythenorth> special cargo
11:41:05  <andythenorth> harvesters
11:41:10  <V453000> tell me ummediatelly
11:41:13  <V453000> wtf is harvesters
11:41:18  <andythenorth> I’ll do the chain
11:41:24  <andythenorth> harvest depot -> harvesters
11:41:34  <andythenorth> vehicle picks up (say 30t) harvesters
11:41:36  <andythenorth> goes to farm 1
11:41:39  <andythenorth> unloads 30t
11:41:42  <andythenorth> farm ‘processes’
11:42:00  <andythenorth> 30 days later, it produces (a) boosted amount of crops (b) 25t harvesters
11:42:05  <andythenorth> vehicles goes to farm 2
11:42:08  <andythenorth> repeats,
11:42:11  <andythenorth> until empty
11:42:16  <andythenorth> then goes to harvest depot
11:42:19  <andythenorth> stupid eh? :D
11:42:26  <V453000> quite interesting
11:42:38  <andythenorth> vehicle could also load / unload at same farm :P
11:42:43  <andythenorth> dunno
11:42:47  <V453000> yeah that I understand
11:42:48  <andythenorth> players would come up with mad ideas
11:42:53  <V453000> worth try :D
11:42:54  <andythenorth> might be stupid enough to try
11:43:56  <V453000> I am still going batshit over nuts infrastructure
11:44:00  <andythenorth> o_O
11:44:13  <V453000> already discovered that I wont be able to make longer than 8/8 vehicles with this thing
11:44:21  <V453000> :D
11:44:37  <andythenorth> what are you doing? o_O
11:44:55  <V453000>
11:44:56  <V453000> this
11:45:03  <V453000> automatically processed into spritesheet
11:45:05  <V453000> in all 8 rotations
11:45:37  <V453000> to save time eventually :D
11:46:03  <andythenorth> time savers :P
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11:46:13  <V453000> I have it almost done luckily
11:46:21  <andythenorth> they pay off when you want to make a lot of changes
11:46:23  <V453000> it will be super awesome, I have it flexible so I dont even have to use the full grid
11:46:25  <andythenorth> or reuse them in multiple sets
11:46:51  <V453000> well, sure, assuming someone also has the same software
11:46:55  <V453000> adobe creative cloud in this case
11:47:06  <V453000> idk how after effects compositions are backwards compatible
11:49:42  <V453000> regardless, I will spend about 5 days with it
11:49:51  <V453000> if I consider NUTS has 60 000 sprites, I think it will be worth it
11:50:08  <V453000> and even if close, then convenient, not having to do all jobs at once, just first this and then just rendering stuff at will
11:50:31  <V453000> I dont know how Pikka arranges his sprites
11:50:39  <V453000> if he just renders 8 separate images of a train
11:50:50  <V453000> or puts them together in photoshop or something
11:51:13  <V453000> I just hate to see zbase repository with tons of single images
11:51:19  <V453000> so hard to browse it
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11:52:38  <V453000> not to mention that I can render up to 256 things at once instead of clicking RENDAR 60 000 times
11:53:37  <supermop> andythenorth: in the US combines usually drive themselves from farm to farm
11:54:02  <andythenorth> supermop: proposal for combine vehicle?
11:54:10  <V453000> xd
11:54:12  <supermop> maybe
11:54:32  <supermop> cargo is "harvester operator hours"
11:54:37  <andythenorth> or diesel :P
11:54:42  <andythenorth> but yeah
11:55:05  <supermop> when the driver have harvested all he feels likes, back to the depot for a break
11:57:32  <supermop> V453000: how log will that grid take to render?
11:57:39  <supermop> long, rather
11:57:46  <V453000> even without vehicles it is like 10 minutes
11:57:55  <supermop> unless your rendered is wood fired
11:58:20  <V453000> well I have multiple computers available so in worst case scenario I can even do a distributed render of one frame
11:58:25  <V453000> but just rendering over night works
11:58:33  <supermop> office render farm?
11:58:35  <V453000> and area-render for previews is more than enough
11:58:36  <V453000> yeah
11:59:06  <V453000> but I dont think that the render times will be somehow large, lets see though
11:59:29  <supermop> well time isnt really time if it doesnt require you there thinking about it
11:59:32  <V453000> Vray has most time spent when you render something that is close to the camera, all of this is rather small
11:59:37  <V453000> exactly
11:59:48  <V453000> I have no problem pressing one button in the evening
11:59:55  <V453000> which is the point of the postproduction infrastructure
12:00:04  <supermop> can houses have animation or only industries?
12:00:16  <b_jonas> supermop: I think houses can
12:00:18  <V453000> I would rather press one button for 256 vehicles (e.g. one type of wagon with everything), rather than 1 per each
12:00:26  <V453000> supermop: default houses have elevator on the side
12:00:30  <V453000> so I guess they can
12:00:32  <supermop> ah yes
12:00:53  <supermop> soo..can it progress at one frame per 40 years or so?
12:01:01  <V453000> XD
12:01:05  <V453000> maybe?
12:01:09  <V453000> interesting idea
12:01:16  <b_jonas> what? is the animation state even saved?
12:01:19  <supermop> too abuse it to simulate 'renovations, additions etc
12:01:23  <V453000> it probably is
12:01:32  <V453000> industries can start animating, stop at any point, and continue later
12:01:34  <b_jonas> or, like, synchronized to the main game clock?
12:01:39  <V453000> yeah nice idea
12:02:01  <V453000> probably with ticks b_jonas  :) which is game clock basically
12:02:03  <supermop> becuase most of the housing stock around here is still 1880s, but most has be majorly renovated or added to
12:02:21  <planetmaker> supermop, no problem to do so with house newgrf
12:02:38  <V453000> =D
12:02:49  <supermop> and i doubt a town can remember what house it is replace, and prefer new house that looks like upgrade of old
12:03:09  <supermop> cannot type well tonight
12:03:18  <V453000> yeah I bet that is random
12:03:32  <supermop> ive been out most days this week and last with camer
12:03:33  <supermop> a
12:03:46  <supermop> hunting for elusive early 20th C stuff
12:03:47  <planetmaker> supermop, replacing a house is one thing. You have little control over that (or doing that too much would be a BAD FEATURE).
12:04:00  <planetmaker> But sure you can change the look of an existing house whenever you feel like
12:04:27  <planetmaker> if it's infrequent it might not even need animation, not sure, though.
12:04:43  <supermop> but most stuff that shouts 1910s or 20s here is just an 1850,70, or 90s house that had the facade updated then
12:05:36  <supermop> still have too little for new builds in those times - new builds of old houses with new facades may suffice
12:05:40  <andythenorth> bye
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12:06:26  <supermop> and then, thats an effect of particular urban and economic conditions here - new houses were built elsewhere those decades
12:06:40  <supermop> and the game modelling that is a very bad feature
12:07:32  <supermop> "you transported tons of cargo this year but town will not grow at all because in real melbourne urban housing was not in vogue at this time..."
12:08:36  <supermop> it would be could if the house set could choose to either rennovate a house or build new, but what would be the point?
12:08:51  <b_jonas> supermop: heh, yeah. you'd have all houses built in the 1950s
12:09:49  <supermop> b_jonas: or growth only in town zone 1 this decade, only in zone 5 next...
12:10:34  <V453000> what is the current mechanism missing?
12:11:08  <supermop> really though suburbs should never grow in openttd, as its a perfect world with no private cars and all powerful transit companies
12:11:22  <V453000> xd
12:12:03  <supermop> V453000: i dont know - lots if i want to build a historical urban planning and construction economy simulator
12:12:16  <supermop> but again, its more fun to play the utopian
12:12:38  <V453000> hm ._.
12:13:05  <V453000> you basically mean you want to rarely demolish/overbuild buildings, and update the standing ones
12:13:10  <supermop> and if the office elevator can be used to simulate solar hot water heaters added to a 150 year old home so be it
12:13:19  <supermop> V453000: yes
12:13:19  <V453000> yeah
12:13:40  <V453000> on paper it makes sense
12:13:50  <V453000> but in the game I would just keep it as is
12:13:54  <supermop> i can update old buildings, but if they dont survive its no use
12:13:56  <V453000> old things will get overwritten over time
12:14:05  <V453000> yeah
12:14:17  <supermop> but dont want towns to become stagnate
12:14:34  <V453000> what do you mean by that?
12:15:15  <supermop> if all houses have a min life of 100 years or so - you'd get a good model of the average age of these neighborhoods
12:15:32  <supermop> but really there should be more replacement than that
12:15:52  <supermop> no one in 1900 thinks the 1880 building is special,
12:16:01  <supermop> only people in 200
12:16:02  <supermop> 0
12:16:28  <supermop> so it gets too compplex too fast?
12:17:05  <supermop> "house has min life of 20 years, but if survives to 80, has min live of 16"
12:17:13  <supermop> *160
12:17:21  <supermop> heritage listing - bad feature
12:17:38  <V453000> I understand what you are trying to get to, and it would be nice probably
12:17:47  <V453000> but idk if feasible / functionally rewarding
12:17:48  <supermop> not worth it though
12:17:56  <V453000> yeah
12:17:57  <supermop> who would even notice
12:18:04  <planetmaker> supermop, you can give houses a life span of 100 years, if you want
12:18:21  <V453000> like it cant be overbuilt for 100 years?
12:18:26  <planetmaker> yes, you can do that
12:18:31  <V453000> :o
12:18:41  <supermop> planetmaker: can i make them easy to overbuild when young, but harder when old?
12:19:00  <planetmaker> also that. There's a callback which asks the house whether it allows to be destructed or not
12:19:13  <supermop> still sounds like bad feature
12:19:20  <V453000> XD
12:19:51  <peter1138> I would like houses to last longer in general.
12:19:55  <supermop> good for me writing an architecture theory paper, bad for every other player
12:20:08  <peter1138> ... but I guess that messes with the growth rate.
12:20:14  <V453000> it could work but since the best way to play with towns is with magic dozer ... :D
12:20:23  <supermop> also id love to make linear 'zones'
12:20:27  <V453000>  /authority friendliness
12:20:33  <supermop> that is a high street
12:20:51  <peter1138> SimCityTTD
12:20:56  <V453000> ^
12:20:59  <V453000> a bit too far :)
12:21:07  <peter1138> TaI does it.
12:21:16  <peter1138> Sort of.
12:21:41  <supermop> where shops prefer to be along the same-ish road as name tile, not just radius
12:22:00  <supermop> again though - would be bizarre to players
12:22:11  <peter1138> Would it?
12:22:28  <supermop> peter1138: i dont know
12:22:28  <peter1138> I find it bizarre having millions of theatres...
12:22:40  <supermop> it would not look like TT
12:22:41  <peter1138> And then football stadiums that keep moving.
12:22:44  <V453000> the question is how much better would it be compared to the random
12:23:08  <supermop> but here you have transport corridors, trams etc
12:23:14  <V453000> perhaps just adding a couple of variously long-life buildings would do the trick
12:23:35  <supermop> shops along that street, apartments above, smaller houses on side street
12:23:45  <supermop> -but-
12:23:53  <b_jonas> sure, some types of houses have to live longer than others
12:24:02  <supermop> thats not an inherent feature of towns
12:24:20  <b_jonas> some cathedrals should for more than 500 years
12:24:25  <supermop> those shop owners just built that way in response to the transit line
12:24:40  <supermop> the tram line and the horse lines that preceeded it
12:25:28  <supermop> peter1138: so it would be odd having those 'high streets' if the player was building in a different way
12:25:45  <supermop> ok i have to go to bed now
12:25:53  <V453000> bai :)
12:25:59  <supermop> no longer in my 20s when i wake up
12:26:15  <supermop> so who know maybe i wont care about silly houses so much
12:26:20  <peter1138> b
12:26:37  <b_jonas> you could add moving circus tents that move to a different town every few months
12:26:53  <V453000> XD
12:26:57  <supermop> bye
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12:38:31  <planetmaker> interesting idea, b_jonas :)
12:39:32  <argoneus> add achievements and quicktime events
12:39:38  <argoneus> like mash B to unload coal
12:42:33  <peter1138> Funny how there are roads but no road vehicles...
12:42:45  <peter1138> Should've picked a set with horse & carts :(
12:52:37  <planetmaker> write a GS for that end, argoneus
12:54:05  <argoneus> planetmaker: is that even possible?
12:56:56  <planetmaker> argoneus, I don't know. As I don't know the meaning of "quicktime event" nor what you mean with "mash B to ..."
12:57:12  <argoneus> planetmaker: you don't know what a QTE is?
12:57:13  <argoneus> I envy you
12:57:16  <Taede> maybe playing a movie upon achieving?
12:57:30  <argoneus> it's like when you play a game
12:57:34  <argoneus> and there's a cutscene
12:57:41  <argoneus> and your character falls off a cliff or something during it
12:57:49  <argoneus> and the game says "rapidly press X to climb back up"
12:57:52  <argoneus> and if you don't, you die
12:57:53  <argoneus> never saw that?
12:58:15  <planetmaker> those are not my type of games, I guess
13:00:22  <V453000> button mashing =D
13:00:32  <V453000> no tanks
13:00:42  <argoneus> no airplanes
13:00:55  <V453000> I actually wanted to create a game that would be completely made around the logic of smashing your keys to some rhythm
13:00:58  <V453000> no matter which keys
13:01:03  <argoneus> so like osu?
13:01:10  <argoneus> or guitar hero
13:01:14  <V453000> like the type of game get your keyboard, get drunk with friends, and smash it
13:01:15  <argoneus> or stepmania
13:01:17  <V453000> yeah like guitar hero
13:01:28  <argoneus> or ddr
13:01:44  <V453000> I dont know any of those things, display just tells you what to do and you do it
13:02:14  <argoneus> all of those do that
13:02:34  <argoneus> osu is my favourite
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15:19:30  <LordAro> hmm
15:19:36  * LordAro buys Civ: BE
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15:32:37  <frosch123> or you planning on doing a live-feed here while playing it?
15:32:42  <frosch123> *are
15:37:10  <frosch123> is it funny that an osx compile question is answered by two guys, who have combined 50 posts, and both joined 2005 or earlier?
15:37:59  <frosch123> or is it just a statistical fluke
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15:48:27  <LordAro> frosch123: i could do :p
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16:30:55  <Rubidium> frosch123: maybe it's an omen for Bjarni returning
16:31:39  <planetmaker> :D
16:36:45  <LordAro> Rubidium: well, there were some commits from blathijs this morning :)
16:37:17  <planetmaker> well, he's always around somewhat and is our official debian maintainer
16:37:25  <LordAro> true
16:37:33  <LordAro> commits are not often though
16:38:13  <planetmaker> they were a spin-off from maintaining the package. Or so I understood :)
16:39:32  <LordAro> it looks that way
16:39:34  <Rubidium> yup
16:39:59  <frosch123> LordAro: it's now somewhat closer to show ottd's own readme in-game :p
16:40:11  <LordAro> frosch123: i was going to say :)
16:40:27  <LordAro> just the search paths which is the issue though
16:40:42  <Rubidium> frosch123: why? They're not compressed, are they?
16:40:48  <frosch123> yeah, needs some configure magic
16:40:54  <frosch123> Rubidium: on debian they would be
16:41:18  <Rubidium> true, but so are those of OpenGFX, OpenSFX and OpenMSX... and that's basically what this patch is for
16:41:26  <planetmaker> and he's right. a default install ships with a few 100MByte docs
16:42:24  <frosch123> somewhere you lost me :)
16:44:15  <Rubidium> I'm at ;)
16:44:25  <planetmaker> ah, I said like, compression of the docs will not mean much, unless there's over 1GByte of docs. Actually that's about the size :P
16:44:32  <frosch123> Rubidium: you are back to ipv4?
16:44:49  <Rubidium> the whole ipv6 tunnel thing was too unstable
16:45:05  <Rubidium> and my provider says it's going to introduce IPv6 in 2012
16:45:12  <planetmaker> lol
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17:13:50  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27037 /trunk/src (3 files) (2014-10-23 17:13:44 UTC)
17:13:51  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6150] (r26878): m6 was moved from Tile To TileExtended, but it wasn't properly removed from Tile (patch by Juanjo)
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17:34:45  <peter1138> Let's just allocate a pointer per tile...
17:37:12  <Rubidium> pff... pointers are overrated
17:37:22  <Rubidium> virtual classes for the win!
17:43:37  <Rubidium> but... it's only like 4 times more memory, which is peanuts
17:43:54  <Rubidium> @calc 4096*4096*30/1048576
17:43:54  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 480
17:44:03  <Rubidium> merely 480 MiB
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17:45:45  <frosch123> yeah, and vehicles should have a shared_ptr to the track, so the track cannot be destroyed while they are on it
17:45:56  <Rubidium> though with the added pointers for virtual classes...
17:46:02  <frosch123> modern c++ can solve so many problems in ottd
17:46:15  <Rubidium> @calc 4096*4096*(64+8-10)/1048576
17:46:15  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 992
17:46:34  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27038 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2014-10-23 17:46:24 UTC)
17:46:35  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:36  <DorpsGek> belarusian - 21 changes by KorneySan
17:46:37  <DorpsGek> catalan - 2 changes by juanjo
17:46:38  <DorpsGek> czech - 14 changes by Eskymak
17:46:39  <DorpsGek> russian - 1 changes by KorneySan
17:46:53  <Rubidium> so... peanuts
17:46:55  <glx> 3D array with tile objects ?
17:47:15  <glx> and magically metro can be done ;)
17:47:16  <Rubidium> glx: no, 2D array with objects
17:47:27  <frosch123> how much memory does a shared_ptr need?
17:47:38  <frosch123> i would expect something around 12 bytes
17:47:56  <frosch123> a reference counter and a pointer to the actual data
17:48:08  <frosch123> hmm, though, how about adding a mutex for every tile?
17:51:39  <peter1138> And a thread!
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18:00:41  <Alberth> yeah, and a little RPC, to distribute the map to the clients
18:00:59  <frosch123> esp. the gpus of the clients
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18:06:53  <andythenorth> o/
18:06:55  <Alberth> moin
18:13:19  <peter1138> Where's your other arm?
18:13:59  <Alberth> \o  it's here
18:15:17  <Xaroth|Work> Alberth: xmlrpc?
18:15:37  <Alberth> only for bonus points
18:15:42  <Xaroth|Work> \o/
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18:26:05  <andythenorth> where is cat?
18:27:05  <peter1138> Urgh...
18:28:57  <Rubidium> Xaroth|Work: lets implement OpenTTD in XLST ;)
18:29:03  <andythenorth> cat did something unpleasant?
18:29:23  <peter1138> Just wonder if it's worth making towns not spawn on tiny islands.
18:29:25  <frosch123> ate your mouse?
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18:29:59  <andythenorth> peter1138: I like them
18:30:05  <andythenorth> but they always end up shrinking popn
18:30:08  <andythenorth> :P
18:30:12  <andythenorth> also theatres
18:30:27  <andythenorth> I did once check that theatres don’t have a higher probability by mistake :P
18:30:46  <Xaroth|Work> Rubidium: XLSt is overrated, I'll stick with just xmlrpc
18:32:49  <andythenorth> theatres much?
18:32:53  <andythenorth> that wasn’t a one-off
18:32:55  <andythenorth> :D
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18:36:09  <Rubidium> Xaroth|Work: obviously XMLRPC for the communication (sending the map state to the clients), but XLST for moving the vehicles and such
18:40:50  <Alberth> andy: theater-city :)
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18:51:46  <Xaroth|Work> Rubidium: you have an interesting idea there
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18:57:38  <Rubidium> Xaroth|Work: only thing is that XLST isn't quite suited for complex calculations
18:58:00  <Rubidium> unless you create countless small functions
18:58:14  <Rubidium> ... to work around the fact that you don't have variables
18:58:32  <Rubidium> so it becomes more or less functional programming
19:02:09  <Xaroth|Work> \o/
19:03:13  <FLHerne> peter1138: Tiny-island-towns are fun
19:03:28  <andythenorth> only in theory
19:03:33  <andythenorth> they’re not actually fun
19:03:44  <FLHerne> They're about the only actually-practical use for passenger boats, at least with stock vehicles/costs
19:04:10  <FLHerne> And a cute use for the little squiddy ones if being realistic
19:07:03  <andythenorth> passenger boats are way useful in any coastal city
19:07:11  <andythenorth> almost no infrastructure
19:13:34  <FLHerne> Ok, only practical use for passenger boats except as glorified buses :P
19:14:00  <FLHerne> If I keep retrospectively adding nonsensical caveats, I'll have a point eventually...
19:20:00  <luaduck> alright, what's the best way to change string settings (like server_name) over rcon
19:20:15  <luaduck> because if I try to execute anything with spaces I just get told how to use set
19:21:21  <peter1138> " "
19:21:36  <peter1138> or is there still the issue with double quotes... hmm
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19:24:15  <luaduck> trying to do it over soap
19:24:21  <luaduck> but I get the exact same issue with in-game rcon
19:30:19  <peter1138> Bah, custom land generators still suck :(
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20:28:06  <frosch123> night
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21:28:17  <peter1138> Hmm, awkward heightmap :S
21:29:30  <peter1138>
21:29:53  <peter1138> Should be ~ 33% water.
21:31:17  <argoneus> hm.png
21:34:14  <peter1138> That's my imaginative naming scheme.
22:07:34  <peter1138>
22:07:38  <peter1138> hm2
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22:51:40  <jackmcbarn> when i'm using path-based signaling, i know trains will look ahead to a safe waiting place. what are the safe waiting places? i know signals are one, and i know there's more, but i don't remember them
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