Log for #openttd on 24th October 2014:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:02:54  *** Hazzard [] has joined #openttd
00:09:25  *** Guest2807 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:09:48  *** johnrambo [] has joined #openttd
00:13:00  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
00:16:30  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
00:23:42  *** Flygon_ [] has joined #openttd
00:30:29  *** Flygon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:54:47  *** Kurimus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:55:08  *** Kurimus [] has joined #openttd
01:13:38  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
01:14:20  *** Flygon_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:17:02  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
01:18:40  *** Flygon [] has joined #openttd
01:27:11  *** Flygon_ [] has joined #openttd
01:31:16  *** Flygon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:55:13  *** DDR [] has joined #openttd
02:00:23  *** DDR [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:00:44  *** DDR [] has joined #openttd
02:27:46  *** Myhorta [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:09:07  *** supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:17:46  *** SHOTbyGUN [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:54:23  *** DDR [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:54:44  *** DDR [] has joined #openttd
04:56:01  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
04:56:15  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
05:03:26  *** Flygon [] has joined #openttd
05:09:09  *** Flygon_ [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
05:19:09  *** MTsPony [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:31:35  *** Flygon [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:35:52  *** Flygon [] has joined #openttd
05:47:25  *** Hazzard [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:47:59  *** TomyLobo [~foo@] has joined #openttd
06:16:37  *** DDR [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:17:48  *** MTsPony [] has joined #openttd
06:20:08  *** TomyLobo [~foo@] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...]
06:20:51  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
06:29:25  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
06:36:02  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:39:01  *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:b400:99b6:7dcb:fc3] has joined #openttd
06:43:50  <peter1138> jackmcbarn, end of the line
06:47:56  *** lugo [] has joined #openttd
07:01:33  *** usuario [] has joined #openttd
07:02:02  <usuario> what OS do you use?
07:04:36  *** usuario [] has quit []
07:20:38  <NGC3982> The good one.
07:20:42  <NGC3982> Hmz.
07:21:01  <NGC3982> Question: Why would i ever use the "unload" instead of "transfer"?
07:21:20  <NGC3982> I guess there is use for it, but i have never seemed to have ..that use.
07:26:57  *** Fuco [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:30:05  <__ln__> NGC3982: off-topic, but do you know wtf does "(så kallade) fonderade huven" mean?
07:45:35  *** Celestar [] has joined #openttd
07:50:44  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
08:09:07  <argoneus> good morning train friends
08:11:29  <Supercheese> Aaaaaaaaargh
08:11:44  <Supercheese> Silicon Valley uses cargo genitives that should be capitalized
08:11:45  <Rubidium> no morning for you, Supercheese?
08:11:49  <Supercheese> whyyy
08:12:16  <Supercheese> when the base translation always wants them lowercase, ugh
08:14:56  <peter1138> Who what?
08:15:09  *** johnrambo [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
08:15:25  <Rubidium> Rubidium, procrastinating
08:15:37  <Supercheese> Perhaps I'm being overly picky on capitalization...
08:15:52  <Supercheese> sigh
08:16:05  <Rubidium> Supercheese: but I thought Latin didn't use capitalisation
08:16:10  *** Jomann [] has joined #openttd
08:16:28  <Supercheese> It didn't. Now it does.
08:16:41  <Supercheese> It also uses punctuation, blessedly
08:16:57  <Supercheese> I don't know how anyone did anything without periods and commas
08:17:41  <Rubidium> and without spaces!
08:18:46  <Supercheese> Uck, I don't want to think about it
08:18:56  <Rubidium>
08:19:21  <Supercheese> No wonder literacy rates were so abysmally low
08:20:12  <Rubidium> so you'd get things like
08:21:13  <argoneus> >WONDER
08:21:13  <argoneus> >W
08:21:15  <argoneus> no
08:21:54  <Supercheese> He's writing in english.......
08:22:22  <Supercheese> Saying "but the Romans hadn't W" seems a bit silly
08:22:50  <Supercheese> Hmm
08:22:54  <Supercheese> "Error: Case detected in string command CARGO_LIST but the project does not allow cases"
08:23:14  *** lugo [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:23:24  <Supercheese> I'm not certain what to make of that, as I uses cases in CARGO_LIST just fine
08:23:30  <Supercheese> used*
08:23:58  <Supercheese> are gamescript texts subject to different restrictions?
08:24:54  <Rubidium> argoneus: well, your and my nick don't exist in the classical latin alphabet
08:25:14  <Rubidium> and it'd be even funnier in Archaic Latin
08:26:32  <argoneus> Rubidium: they don't?
08:26:37  <argoneus> which letter don't they have
08:26:39  <Supercheese> u
08:26:44  <Supercheese> only had v
08:26:45  <argoneus> they used V
08:27:36  <Supercheese> anyway, he was just trying to make an analogy
08:27:44  <Rubidium> my nick in Greek is fun...
08:28:26  <Rubidium> rouvidio
08:29:17  <V453000> wat
08:29:34  <Supercheese> Err, not using Greek letters?
08:29:46  <peter1138> hai guys, i'm using a nightly, what's a development version?
08:30:15  <Supercheese> Yeah...
08:30:17  <Rubidium> ΡουβίΎιο <- Greek, σουβλάκι => Souvlaki, so the begin must sound like rouv
08:31:32  <argoneus> I see "??????? <- Greek"
08:31:35  <argoneus> thanks shell in a box
08:31:55  <peter1138> Thanks UTF-8.
08:32:10  <argoneus> I have UTF 8 in irssi and in my terminal
08:32:15  <argoneus> but shell in a box doesn't support them it seems
08:32:16  <argoneus> :(
08:32:37  <peter1138> Web-based SSH?
08:32:38  <peter1138> What?
08:32:40  <argoneus> yes
08:32:49  <peter1138> Why?
08:32:51  <argoneus> it connects to ssh via javascript
08:32:55  <argoneus> because port 80 blocked at work
08:32:57  <argoneus> er, 22
08:34:34  <peter1138> How would you get any work done if ssh is blocked?
08:34:56  <argoneus> ssh to external sites
08:35:00  <argoneus> I can ssh to internal machines
08:37:32  <planetmaker> @calc 4096^2 * 10 / 1024^2
08:37:32  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
08:37:40  <planetmaker> @calc 4096**2 * 10 / 1024**2
08:37:40  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 160
08:38:15  <planetmaker> @calc 1048576**2 * 10 / 1024**2
08:38:15  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 10485760
08:38:27  <argoneus> @calc 1024!
08:38:27  <DorpsGek> argoneus: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
08:38:30  <argoneus> :(
08:38:51  <peter1138> @calc !2
08:38:51  <DorpsGek> peter1138: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
08:38:55  <peter1138> Pfft.
08:39:03  <planetmaker> @calc fact(6)
08:39:03  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: 'fact' is not a defined function.
08:39:07  <planetmaker> @calc factorial(6)
08:39:07  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: 'factorial' is not a defined function.
08:39:20  <planetmaker> @calc fac(6)
08:39:20  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: 'fac' is not a defined function.
08:39:23  <planetmaker> well :)
08:40:05  <planetmaker> too old math plugin here :D
08:40:26  <Supercheese> @calc 6!
08:40:26  <DorpsGek> Supercheese: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
08:40:31  <argoneus> they didn't have factorials back then
08:40:34  <Supercheese> sad
08:40:36  <__ln__> @calc define f(x) { if (x <= 1) return (1); return (f(x-1) * x); } f(6)
08:40:36  <DorpsGek> __ln__: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
08:40:49  <argoneus> what language is this anyway
08:40:56  <Supercheese> @help calc
08:40:57  <DorpsGek> Supercheese: (calc <math expression>) -- Returns the value of the evaluated <math expression>. The syntax is Python syntax; the type of arithmetic is floating point. Floating point arithmetic is used in order to prevent a user from being able to crash to the bot with something like '10**10**10**10'. One consequence is that large values such as '10**24' might not be exact.
08:41:08  <Supercheese> Python eh
08:41:41  <planetmaker> Supercheese, factorial(X) is the right syntax in newer supybot. works in coop :P
08:42:09  <Supercheese> @calc Factorial 6
08:42:09  <DorpsGek> Supercheese: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
08:42:18  <Supercheese> Eh uncle
08:42:24  <Supercheese> I yield
08:42:35  <planetmaker> @calc 1*2*3*4*5*6
08:42:35  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 720
08:42:36  <planetmaker> :P
08:42:58  <argoneus> @calc 5 * x + 4 = 4 * x**2
08:42:58  <DorpsGek> argoneus: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
08:43:06  <Rubidium> planetmaker: you don't know the first 6 by heart? ;)
08:43:18  <argoneus> I know the last 6 by heart
08:43:56  <argoneus> by the way
08:44:02  <argoneus> is anyone here a grand strategy fan by chance?
08:44:35  <planetmaker> Rubidium, no, I don't know by heart. Though quickly to do without pen&paper.
08:44:46  <planetmaker> not anymore I should say
08:45:52  <Rubidium> (not that I know them, but the first six are still easily calculatable by head)
08:46:22  <planetmaker> yes
08:47:00  <planetmaker> 1,2,6,24,120,720,5040,...
09:06:22  *** Brumi [] has joined #openttd
09:09:15  *** KouDy [~koudy@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
09:09:31  *** KouDy [~koudy@] has joined #openttd
09:12:13  *** Sylf [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:12:26  *** Sylf [] has joined #openttd
09:15:23  *** dxtr [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:18:34  *** supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:19:50  *** dxtr [] has joined #openttd
09:24:26  *** tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
09:30:31  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:35:38  *** Jomann [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:37:17  <peter1138> I just realised that Track Mania is basically a souped up version of Stunts/4D Sports Driving...
09:38:18  <Eddi|zuHause> <NGC3982> Question: Why would i ever use the "unload" instead of "transfer"? <- when there's an oil well near the refinery and your vehicle filled up with stuff that you have nowhere to drop off
09:41:27  *** lugo [] has joined #openttd
09:46:20  *** Quatroking [] has joined #openttd
09:46:22  <Quatroking> hi
09:46:53  <Quatroking> is it possible to designate station platforms for fright/passengers only?
09:47:06  <Eddi|zuHause> no
09:47:28  <Quatroking> I just realized that question was really silly and that I should just use seperate stations for that by holding ctrl
09:47:46  <Eddi|zuHause> you can either use separate stations (with ctrl+click), waypoints, or you can divide the trains by length
09:48:14  <Quatroking> Okay, second question that is hopefully less silly, is there a way to allow more than one company on a station/airport?
09:48:44  <Quatroking> just have the companies pay taxes to the station owner or something
09:48:46  <peter1138> only with the infrastructure sharing patch
09:48:47  <Eddi|zuHause> there's an ancient patch...
09:49:09  <Eddi|zuHause> but it has various issues
09:49:09  <__ln__> it's sad that it's ancient
09:49:20  <Quatroking> ah, bummer
09:49:40  <Quatroking> it'd make stuff a bit more real, here in NL the majority of train stations are owned by NS but are also used by Arriva and Thalys
09:50:10  <Quatroking> same with the bus stops, RET, Connexxion, Arriva all share them
09:50:37  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could do some savegame hacking to make the stations "neutral" like oil rigs
09:51:02  <__ln__> it would make even more sense with airports, because they are so large and i don't suppose there are any airports in the world owned and operated by one airline.
09:51:03  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if trains will actually use them anymore
09:51:24  <Quatroking> __ln__, the only airports I can think of that are privately owned are the really small ones
09:51:44  <Quatroking> then again those usually use freelance pilots
09:53:15  <Quatroking> Schiphol in Amsterdam is partly owned by KLM, IIRC, but there's plenty other airlines that use it
09:53:52  <Eddi|zuHause> well, what i'd actually use it for would be to transfer passengers between a local tram company and a map-wide train company
09:54:45  <Quatroking> Yeah that's also a scenario applied to reality a lot of times
09:56:00  <Quatroking> NS only does trains while RET, Rotterdam Electric Tram, does busses, trams and metros in the Rotterdam area and handles a lot of transfer traffic
09:56:21  <Quatroking> In fact, I transfer from RET to NS daily whenever I'm off to uni
09:56:50  *** Supercheese [~Superchee@] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
10:02:25  <Quatroking> Just looked it up, last update was in 2008 :x
10:03:54  <Eddi|zuHause> certainly there are newer applications on some patchpack, but those usually have troubles with multiplayer compatibility
10:04:14  <Eddi|zuHause> which kinda defeats the point :p
10:04:35  *** dxtr [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:05:40  *** dxtr [] has joined #openttd
10:13:24  <argoneus> have there ever been AI competitions?
10:13:26  <argoneus> like in starcraft
10:14:18  <Quatroking> hey now, koreans are people too
10:14:29  <peter1138> I think the whole thing with NoAI started out like that.
10:14:55  <peter1138> It kick started the replacement of the fixed built-in AIs (there were two)
10:16:37  <argoneus> but were there ever competitions?
10:16:46  <argoneus> like people actually comparing their pe-- AIs?
10:18:23  *** fjb is now known as Guest2860
10:18:24  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
10:19:07  *** Brumi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:21:34  *** Brumi [] has joined #openttd
10:21:51  <lugo> argoneus:
10:24:02  <argoneus> oh nice
10:24:05  <argoneus> how did choochoo win though
10:24:12  <argoneus> that thing only makes fancy junctions and 3 length trains
10:25:42  *** Guest2860 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:26:10  <peter1138> kinda hard to search the forums for AI :(
10:31:36  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
10:33:14  *** SHOTbyGUN [] has joined #openttd
10:44:29  <NGC3982> __ln__: "Att fondera" > "To save for later", "To store money for saving or interest"
10:45:00  <NGC3982> "Fond" > "Fund" ("Bond").
10:45:45  <NGC3982> "Huven" is a vocabular version of "Huvuden" > "Heads" (in plural).
10:45:58  <NGC3982> "Fonderade huven" doesn't seem to make any sense.
10:52:51  <Eddi|zuHause> likely a case of missing context...
10:57:19  <__ln__> NGC3982: yeah, i also get the individual words but don't get the combination... and google knows nothing. it's either some technical or economic term, i suppose.  "Jobbar Ni någonting med så kallade fonderade huven?"
10:58:34  <__ln__> NGC3982: but thanks anyway.
10:59:36  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:04:07  <argoneus> what is this terrifying language
11:06:51  <Rubidium> Quatroking: NS doesn't only do trains; it also does busses, e.g. in/around London
11:09:32  *** liq3 [] has quit []
11:09:46  <NGC3982> __ln__: It's not an economic term. "huven" is as technical as Texan' incest.
11:11:08  <NGC3982> What is the context?
11:14:41  <__ln__> the context is computer hardware, software, and/or video surveillance.
11:31:00  <NGC3982> I have no idea.
11:34:52  <Quatroking> Rubidium, wut
11:35:02  <Quatroking> NS as in Nederlandse Spoorlijnen?
11:35:52  <Quatroking> *Spoorwegen
11:36:56  <Eddi|zuHause> well, DB had busses for decades
11:37:17  <Rubidium> Quatroking: yeah... (look at the icon right above the Abellio and the text below Abellio)
11:37:38  <Quatroking> Oh right, of course, they also own a couple of foreign companies
11:38:11  <Eddi|zuHause> DB has also stuff in countries like dubai
11:38:21  <Quatroking> I thought that was a pretty generic symbol though, not just the logo of NS
11:38:41  <Quatroking> IIRC the symbol also appears in the greatest transport simulator of ALL TIME
11:38:45  <Quatroking> LEGO Loco
11:38:50  <Rubidium> Quatroking: I wonder how foreign Abellio is; mostly due to the HQ being in Utrecht
11:39:19  <Quatroking> I wonder if the orange color is a hint towards its dutch ownership
11:39:41  <Quatroking> Rubidium,
11:39:48  <Eddi|zuHause> abellio is a 100% subsidiary of NS
11:39:53  <Quatroking> Abellio is directly owned
11:39:59  <Rubidium> well, the bus is red like all busses in London
11:40:17  <Quatroking> oh
11:40:18  <Quatroking> :(
11:40:36  <Quatroking> heh, they also own Qbuzz
11:40:37  <Quatroking> their busses suck though
11:40:50  <Quatroking> still better than arriva
11:41:07  <Eddi|zuHause> the abellio trains around here will be silver with red doors
11:41:31  <Quatroking> Sounds very retro sci-fi
11:41:59  <Eddi|zuHause> to off set them from the silver with green doors that the DB trains use
11:42:57  <Eddi|zuHause> silver was mandatory by the regional supervising agency
11:42:59  <Quatroking> do you guys recommend any AI's?
11:43:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i recommend playing without AI
11:43:46  <Quatroking> I'm already lonely enough in real life
11:43:51  <Rubidium> ;)
11:44:03  <Quatroking> wouldn't mind playing against a few AI and have them lose horribly to boost my self-esteem
11:44:25  <Quatroking> Right now all I use is AdmiralAI, which works okay I guess. Used TransAI before but that crashes every 2 years
11:44:41  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I was more thinking about the DB Regio red trains with silver doors
11:47:04  <Quatroking> hahaha, Rubidium, that's the exact same color scheme used here in NL on the trains
11:47:18  <Quatroking> VIRM is my homeboy
11:47:43  <Rubidium> Quatroking: that flickr jpg is definitely photoshopped
11:47:48  <Quatroking> oh
11:48:00  <Quatroking> it's a shame the ICM's can no longer open up their "heads"
11:48:22  <NGC3982> ICM?
11:48:31  <Rubidium> "Koploper"
11:48:33  <Quatroking>
11:48:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: vs.
11:49:04  <Quatroking> in 2005 they welded the doors shut because the mechanism failed too often
11:49:38  <Quatroking> there's only a dozen unrefurbished units around nowadays
11:49:58  <Quatroking> even less
11:50:21  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: shows that I've never conciously looked at the trains in Middle "Earth" ;)
11:51:06  <NGC3982> Quatroking: That's one cool train.
11:51:23  <planetmaker> Quatroking, also try NoCAB. Maybe SimpleAI. But I guess you know the AI comparison table. If not, go check our wiki for it
11:54:27  <peter1138> omfg
11:54:30  <peter1138> password generator...
11:54:31  <peter1138> Alternatively, if no one else can see your terminal now, you can
11:54:31  <peter1138> pick this as your password: "Narrow&demon=cock".
11:56:01  <NGC3982> I never understood why passwords need to be generated
11:56:19  <NGC3982> Doesn't that really go against everything smart about passwords?
11:56:34  <Rubidium> NGC3982: no
11:57:05  <Rubidium> NGC3982: the smart thing about passwords is having them unguessable. A random string of characters is most of the times extremely unguessable
11:57:21  <NGC3982> As hard as they are to guess, they are also hard to remember
11:57:22  <peter1138> NGC3982, not at all. People pick crap passwords.
11:57:32  <NGC3982> Don't tell me you can't create enough entropy with guessable passwords
11:57:54  <Rubidium> e.g. the Windows XP era serial numbers are perfect passwords
11:58:34  * Rubidium still remembers the Windows XP serial...
11:58:54  <peter1138> Personally I use keepass to manage all my passwords.
11:59:08  <peter1138> 32 characters of gibberish and I never see it.
12:00:38  <NGC3982> The only password i actually change on a decent basis is the SSH and su password on my server.
12:00:48  <peter1138> There are some websites which still have stupid limits though :(
12:00:49  <NGC3982> I can't say i have been a good boy with the Facebook account.
12:01:18  <NGC3982> Our work credentials demand exactly 8 letters and digits
12:01:33  <NGC3982> And i guess they wont change it, since the system is from the 1970's.
12:04:48  * Rubidium dislikes policies that require a password change every 3 months
12:05:10  <NGC3982> Welcome to my work
12:05:12  <Rubidium> especially when the sysadmins aren't required to change their way too easy password
12:05:22  <NGC3982> Six different instances with six different three month valid password changes.
12:05:27  <NGC3982> :|
12:06:27  <Rubidium> as a result I'm now using the minimally required password length with minimal differences between the changes to not mess too much with muscle memory
12:07:14  <Rubidium> sadly that means that the password has become significantly easier crackable, but if IT doesn't care then why should I?
12:08:38  <Eddi|zuHause> "wine: Call from 0x7b83cdde to unimplemented function msvcp110.dll.?length@?$codecvt@GDH@std@@QBEHAAHPBD1I@Z, aborting"... because that would have been too easy...
12:08:43  <jackmcbarn> peter1138: thanks
12:09:27  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what's TF calling?
12:09:54  <Eddi|zuHause> no, Civ - Beyond Earth
12:11:19  <peter1138> Civ 5 has a native Linux version... did they fuck that up for Civ:BE?
12:11:32  <Eddi|zuHause> it was postponed
12:11:46  <NGC3982> Rubidium: Good point.
12:11:48  <Eddi|zuHause> "before christmas"
12:11:50  <Eddi|zuHause> or so
12:11:55  <Eddi|zuHause> from a quick google search
12:12:19  <peter1138> My password muscle memory is enter hostname, ^C ^V, done.
12:12:25  <argoneus> they fucked up Civ:BE already
12:12:30  <argoneus> by reskinning civ5 into space
12:12:50  <Rubidium> peter1138: you mean keepass works before logging in into Windows?
12:13:40  <peter1138> I only have one desktop machine to log in to, and that is not Windows.
12:14:33  <NGC3982> There is no way to make a train load full of "one cargo type", with wagons and stations that support more than two types of cargo?
12:14:57  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: no
12:15:03  <peter1138> Windows would be remote desktop, so, yeah, keepass works there.
12:15:14  <Rubidium> NGC3982: yes, full load any (unless you means one specific cargo type)
12:15:30  <Rubidium> ugh... my English is broken
12:15:56  <NGC3982> Hehe
12:16:18  <NGC3982> Would be nice to send a long train to ten stations, each filling it up with cargo before leaving
12:16:46  <NGC3982> I'll solve it with transfer trucks.
12:17:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i've not had a lot of success with trains going to multiple stations
12:17:56  <Eddi|zuHause> except for passengers
12:20:01  <NGC3982> I'm not that interested in success
12:20:40  <NGC3982> As long as it's self sustaining (ECS), i'm a happy little conductor.
12:21:41  <Eddi|zuHause> thing is, either you have only one train, which means rating is appalling and industries close, or you have multiple trains, which means you might as well break up into separate lines which you can manage and balance out better
12:22:29  <NGC3982> That's the fantastic thing with OpenTTD
12:22:37  <NGC3982> I can choose not to really care about rating or money
12:22:45  <NGC3982> (At least for a while ;))
12:23:33  *** Brumi [] has quit []
12:23:51  <Eddi|zuHause> if you "don't care about rating" you should probably not play ECS
12:24:06  <Eddi|zuHause> and i didn't bring up money...
12:24:08  <NGC3982> How so?
12:24:20  <NGC3982> It works out pretty nicely for me, as it is.
12:24:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played with ECS lately, but it used to be really really sensitive to ratings
12:25:29  <Eddi|zuHause> like, it required you to sustain >70%
12:33:32  <NGC3982> Well, i can't say i make any decent profit
12:33:39  <NGC3982> But it's a cosy little setup
12:36:29  *** Keyboard_Warrior [~theholydu@] has joined #openttd
12:36:42  <NGC3982> If OpenTTD would run as a good reality simulation, the Swedish scenarios would have one profitable train, and 500 trains that never earn anything. :p
12:39:37  <planetmaker> hm, this is wrong. 'many rivers'. Actual number of rivers generated: 0 :-(
12:45:20  <argoneus> :(
12:46:15  <Quatroking> planetmaker, maybe they're martian rivers
12:47:22  <Eddi|zuHause> or saharian rivers?
12:50:41  <__ln__> the game is missing submarines.
12:51:27  <planetmaker> I wished they were either
12:51:35  <planetmaker> __ln__, so not true!
12:53:30  *** Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
12:56:54  <planetmaker> <-- we have that sub shown in the middle of that sprite sheet ;)
12:58:13  <__ln__> well, true, but how much cargo does it carry
12:59:35  <planetmaker> who knows? :)
12:59:37  <Eddi|zuHause> drugs don't weigh all that much
12:59:53  <planetmaker> the real question is how much money does it ship to Tropico Island?
13:12:25  <peter1138> Android MTP never works ;(
13:23:14  <Quatroking> __ln__, you know who else is missing submarines?
13:23:17  <Quatroking> sweden
13:28:00  <peter1138> Cunt.
13:28:05  <peter1138> "We need a NAS with lots of storage"
13:28:06  <NGC3982> \o/
13:28:16  <NGC3982> I so want to play the new Tropico game
13:28:20  <peter1138> "Ok, so <this tat from ebay> with 1TB drives?"
13:28:25  <peter1138> 1TB...
13:28:25  <__ln__> Quatroking: fortunately they have some of their own, though.
13:28:27  <NGC3982> The warez did not work, and the original game did not work.
13:28:28  <peter1138> 1TB is not lots...
13:28:29  <NGC3982> :|
13:28:30  <peter1138> *sigh*
13:28:40  <NGC3982> __ln__: We are mighty proud of our subs.
13:28:54  <NGC3982> Although, you could call the Swedish subs sort of "Scandinavian"
13:29:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen 6TB drives while i've been hunting a few months ago
13:29:09  <NGC3982> Since our defense is not really limited to our own country.
13:29:26  <__ln__> yes, your defense relies on finland.
13:29:27  <Quatroking> there's a new tropico game?
13:29:47  <peter1138> Tropico 5 I think he means.
13:29:53  <peter1138> He's a bit behind the times.
13:29:56  <NGC3982> "The latest"
13:30:05  <peter1138> Latest is not a version!
13:30:07  <Eddi|zuHause> what is tropico about? never played it
13:30:17  <NGC3982> Age of empires with assassins.
13:31:09  <Quatroking> Eddi|zuHause, el presidente
13:31:27  <Eddi|zuHause> never heard of that
13:31:37  <planetmaker> "lots" usually should be a factor of 5 more than 'random off-the-shelf product'
13:32:53  <Quatroking> tropico really hasn't changed much in the past couple versions
13:32:55  <Quatroking> other than graphics
13:33:02  <Quatroking> and even those aren't the greatest around
13:35:14  <peter1138> planetmaker, this guy... he *always* gets prices for stuff from ebay...
13:35:33  <peter1138> planetmaker, completely disregarding crap like warranties, and the fact that new from a store can be cheaper
13:37:11  <planetmaker> hm... if I want to quickly check prices, I look at amazon rather than a 2nd-hand crap-pile like ebay
13:37:47  <peter1138> yes me too
13:37:59  <peter1138> amazon or dedicated supplier that we normally use... yeah.
13:38:03  <planetmaker> or I just send my local dealer an e-mail and tell him what I need and to send me an offer, possibly in one or two variations
13:41:03  <peter1138> Oh what a twat. Now he wants to put data and backups of that data on the same platform...
13:42:36  <Eddi|zuHause> what could possibly go wrong...
13:47:47  <planetmaker> nice
13:49:04  <peter1138> Surely nothing!
13:56:54  <Rubidium> but... you need SSD for your NAS
13:58:12  <Rubidium> though shouldn't you cloudsource your storage?
13:58:44  *** lugo [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
13:59:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, just don't put your naked pictures in there and you're fine
14:01:41  <V453000> what else is storage for Eddi
14:03:32  <Eddi|zuHause> how would i know... maybe ask the new EU commissioner for internet
14:03:56  <Rubidium> that person already said something stupid?
14:06:53  * Sacro stores lots of data on Eddi|zuHause
14:07:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that person ever said something not stupid?
14:07:58  * Sacro is 90% sure he's German
14:09:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: you're 90% german? :p
14:10:40  <Rubidium> isn't a majority of Europeans German?
14:11:18  <Eddi|zuHause> depends on how you define "majority", "european" or "german"
14:14:23  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the "official" definition of "German" is "a german is everyone who was living inside germany on 31.12.1937, or descendent of a german"
14:14:52  <Eddi|zuHause> you occasionally also find 1.1.1938
14:18:19  <Rubidium> that definition looks too simplistic
14:22:55  <Eddi|zuHause>
14:24:43  <__ln__> so e.g. the former ambassadors to berlin from all over the world and their descendants are german?
14:26:34  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: either my translation of that article is completely wrong, or yours is wrong
14:27:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: well, i left out a few bits.
14:27:48  <Rubidium> to me (1) basically says: you're German when you have the German nationality, or if you were naturalized, or when you were born or married in the area of German at 31-12-1937
14:28:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you got a bit wrong there
14:29:08  <Rubidium> (2) is like: if your nationality was revoked between 1933 and 1945, and but you kept living in Germany then that revocation didn't happen unless you say you don't want to be a German
14:29:55  *** Brumi [] has joined #openttd
14:30:06  <Eddi|zuHause> of course law-german is generally a bit tricky
14:30:28  <Rubidium> <- probaby a better translation
14:30:57  *** pixar [] has joined #openttd
14:32:58  <Rubidium> though under that definition I'm German: I've been admitted to the territory of the German Reich ;)
14:34:05  <Rubidium> (but the original German is somewhat clearer/verbose on the admitted part, so under the actual definition I'm not)
14:34:38  <Rubidium> though it's still kinda weird
14:35:38  <Rubidium> *if* I were have a kid now, then marry a German... that kid would become German as well. After all, I become German because of "spouse", and since I am then German my children "descendants" would become German as well
14:36:17  *** Visin [] has joined #openttd
14:36:20  <Eddi|zuHause> somewhat...
14:37:06  <Eddi|zuHause> although i read somewhere that the "descentent" part of a child must be declared before the age of 23
14:37:16  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if this applies to this case
14:38:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: anyway, it may be a bit simplistic, and i further simplified it, but e.g. it means that austrians are not german
14:39:54  <Eddi|zuHause> funnily enough, by that definition, east-german citizens could get west-german passports and stuff
14:40:25  <Sacro> Rubidium: don't think that's how it works
14:40:46  <Sacro> my stepmum moved from Ukraine to England, but even though she got citizenship via marriage, her eldest daughter didn't
14:41:10  <Rubidium> arguably England's article 116 is different
14:41:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: there's also the bit in article 116 that says "unless a more specific law says otherwise"
14:41:57  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: so there may be some more complicated rules
14:42:58  <Rubidium> ah well...
14:43:18  <Rubidium> not all Dutch are European; that's something I'm sure of
14:43:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: besides, england probably has even worse excuse of a "constitution" than germany...
14:43:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: dutch overseas territories?
14:44:11  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: amongst others
14:44:30  <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably even worse with french overseas territories
14:44:35  *** Hazzard [] has joined #openttd
14:44:53  <Eddi|zuHause> where some are european, and others aren't
14:44:56  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: we have no constitution
14:45:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: exactly
14:45:30  <Quatroking> does a mod exist that adds hover vehicles
14:45:38  <Quatroking> like, hover cars and hover trucks
14:45:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: germany doesn't either, but it has this sad excuse of a "provisionary founding law"
14:45:50  <Rubidium> mostly because there are 3 overseas countries that get a Dutch passport but don't vote for Parliament (and get the Aruban guilder), and 3 overseas municipalities that are part of the Netherlands and vote for Dutch Parliament / Prime minister (they use USD)
14:46:12  <Rubidium> so the Dutch situation might even be more fucked up than the French situation
14:50:44  *** KouDy [~koudy@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:50:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: something like ?
14:51:25  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I was more thinking about
14:52:51  *** KouDy [~koudy@] has joined #openttd
15:09:12  <V453000> hm
15:09:46  <V453000> where do I put the file path to alternative sprites?
15:09:55  <V453000> can it be in the template?
15:10:11  <V453000> for YETI I have it that way but there is only one sprite, here are 8
15:10:23  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
15:10:32  <V453000> OR can I apply that template and put the file name here? alternative_sprites (spriteset_train_magfast4, ZOOM_LEVEL_IN_4X, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP){(template template_32bpp_engine8(0)}
15:10:40  <Eddi|zuHause> afaik, each of the [] lines can have an individual file name
15:10:42  <V453000> I guess the answer is yes so I ask where :D
15:10:47  <V453000> XD
15:10:48  <V453000> hm
15:10:50  <V453000> aha
15:11:04  <V453000> so I just put the filename as the last parameter
15:11:11  <V453000> like ,y where y is filename
15:11:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, something like that
15:11:34  <V453000> thanks :)
15:13:00  <Eddi|zuHause> if in doubt, look at the specs :)
15:14:41  <V453000> problem is I wasnt in doubt, just confused as hell :P
15:15:02  <V453000> when you are in doubt you are considering option A vs option B, I had option X all over everywhere
15:15:43  <Sylf> [(left_x, upper_y, width, height, )offset_x, offset_y(, flags)(, filename)(, mask)]
15:15:51  <peter1138> Even the - and | views are 128x128? :P
15:15:52  <Sylf> yup, that [] block can have file name
15:19:41  <V453000> death XD it worked
15:20:05  <Sylf> :D
15:20:17  <V453000> aha I guess (, mask) will be for CC recolouring?
15:20:27  <Sylf> it's for crop/nocrop
15:20:31  <V453000> hm
15:20:36  <V453000> true that doesnt make sense
15:20:37  <V453000> :)
15:21:34  <Eddi|zuHause> errr... "flags" is for "crop/nocrop"
15:21:42  <V453000> btw I have completed my infrastructure which makes 256x8 1-click-render give me a png spritesheet with size of 1024*32768 XD
15:21:44  <V453000> small png
15:22:04  <Sylf> monstah
15:22:22  <Eddi|zuHause> you probably want "crop" :p
15:23:58  <V453000> great (: serious nuts progress to come soon
15:24:01  <V453000> for now, cyaz :)
15:30:39  <Eddi|zuHause> "25 out of 130 banks failed the stress-test"... well, it's not like a failed bank could ruin the whole world economy
15:37:54  *** Celestar [] has left #openttd []
15:47:26  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:49:01  *** TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:53:00  *** TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
15:54:24  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
15:56:49  *** jackmcbarn [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:56:58  *** Hazzard [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:57:51  *** Hazzard [] has joined #openttd
16:02:09  *** Sylf [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:02:21  *** Sylf [] has joined #openttd
16:03:49  *** Kerbiter [~oftc-webi@] has joined #openttd
16:04:14  *** Pulec [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:06:07  *** Kerbiter [~oftc-webi@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:07:07  *** Pulec [] has joined #openttd
16:39:31  *** Quatroking [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:44:55  *** Visin [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:57:32  <Eddi|zuHause> in all this time, i've still not understood WAS...
16:59:24  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
16:59:27  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
17:01:56  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: regarding failed banks... the Federal Reserve and ECB are probably the worst w.r.t. balance
17:02:48  *** FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
17:02:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i don't even begin to understand what they are actually doing
17:03:47  <Rubidium> you have a debt? Okay, I'll give you some money from our money jar (/dev/zero)
17:04:36  <peter1138> UNSUSTAINABLE
17:05:35  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: or /dev/urandom?
17:05:49  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that would add value to the money
17:07:08  <Rubidium> generally the EU governments and USA can't create money themselves
17:07:17  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the entire point of money is that it doesn't HAVE value, it only REPRESENTS value?
17:07:58  <Rubidium> although in the US, the government is allowed to mint its own coins... loophole: 1 trillion dollar coin
17:08:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and the point of the ECB/fed is to make sure there's enough money going around so it actually circulates?
17:08:23  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: they didn't actually do that?
17:08:40  <Rubidium> the mandate of the FED and ECB differs
17:09:14  <Rubidium> for the ECB it's essentially trying to keep the inflation at 2%, and pushing/pulling enough money to make that happen
17:09:29  <Eddi|zuHause> and the value that each piece of money represents changes, which is called "inflation"
17:10:22  <Rubidium> inflation is tricky
17:10:59  <Rubidium> value of *only* oil drops significantly, and you can already get deflation while the other prices rise
17:11:48  <Eddi|zuHause> inflation also gets tricky when instances other than the ECB try to actively influence it
17:11:57  <Rubidium> in the NLs we seem to only have just a bit of inflation because entities that rent houses to others may rise the price with inflation + 1.5% a year, which creates a nice positive feedback loop
17:12:19  * peter1138 likes the low interest rate at the moment, though.
17:12:59  <Eddi|zuHause> there are always people who benefit more from low interest rates, and others who benefit more from high interest rates
17:14:11  <Eddi|zuHause> like after WWI it was considered better for the economy to have high inflation rate, because it effectively lowers the cost of manual labor
17:14:30  <Eddi|zuHause> ... until that got totally out of hand
17:14:50  <Eddi|zuHause> ... with prices doubling every week
17:15:11  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the *idea* moment to buy a house
17:15:13  <Rubidium> +l
17:15:36  <Rubidium> after a week your debt essentially halved
17:15:58  <Eddi|zuHause> there are stories of people who sold their house to move to america, and when they arrived in hamburg, the money they got for the house didn't even cover the fee for the ship
17:18:02  <Eddi|zuHause> also, in this time the phrase got coined "it's better to found a bank than to rob a bank"
17:18:45  <Eddi|zuHause> or people that hijacked a money transport took the truck and left the money on the street
17:22:04  <V453000> :DDDD
17:30:41  *** Pensacola [] has joined #openttd
17:32:39  *** Djohaal [] has joined #openttd
17:45:38  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27039 /trunk/src/lang (irish.txt latvian.txt) (2014-10-24 17:45:29 UTC)
17:45:39  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:40  <DorpsGek> irish - 123 changes by tem
17:45:41  <DorpsGek> latvian - 77 changes by Parastais
17:48:40  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
17:48:45  <andythenorth> o/
17:56:18  <andythenorth> no cat?
17:56:53  <Rubidium> andythenorth: it's over there ->
17:57:16  <andythenorth> less than 1m views?
17:57:32  <andythenorth> I thought it was illegal to have < 1m views for a cat video on YT?
17:57:56  <andythenorth> I’m pretty certain they have a ‘haz cat’ algorithm that simply awards views to eligible videos
17:59:26  <andythenorth> hmm
18:00:04  <andythenorth> I do try to not be a dick about forum stuff
18:00:08  <andythenorth> but wtf? 1048576 x 1048576 maps?
18:00:21  <andythenorth> who the fuck ever needs that to aid playing the game for fun?
18:01:02  <andythenorth> that’s 1 trillion tiles?
18:01:16  <Rubidium> you only need 10 TiB for the map
18:01:21  <Rubidium> so... no Windows!
18:01:48  <andythenorth> 4096*4096 is only 16 million tiles
18:01:56  <andythenorth> is the guy actually a moron?
18:02:28  <peter1138> Who's asking for 1048576?
18:02:33  <andythenorth>
18:02:59  <andythenorth> or is it just a typo?
18:03:13  <andythenorth> also, frigging daylength
18:03:18  <andythenorth> why is daylength good?
18:03:44  <andythenorth> is there anything on the internet today, or shall I read a book?
18:03:49  <andythenorth> I have watched today’s cat video
18:04:00  <peter1138> I guess you need time to pass really slowly to fill the 1048576*1048576 map...
18:04:15  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the patch never allowed 1mx1m, it only allowed _one_ dimension this large, if the other is really small
18:04:21  <Sylf> where does the number 1048576 come from?
18:04:29  <Sylf> is it actually a clean 2^X?
18:04:30  <andythenorth> probly mistake in that case
18:04:48  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 2**20
18:04:48  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 1048576
18:04:54  <peter1138> 2^20
18:05:01  <Sylf> hm, kinda weird number...
18:05:06  <andythenorth> power of 2
18:05:26  <andythenorth> 1024*1024
18:05:26  <frosch123> that patch used to only limit the number of tiles to uint32 TileIndex
18:05:36  <frosch123> so 1048576*16 was possible
18:05:39  <peter1138> I'm not sure what's worse, that he wants it, or that there's already a patch to do it...
18:05:42  <Eddi|zuHause> Sylf: you just have not enough powers of two memorized :p
18:05:45  <frosch123> though i have no idea how that worked with vehicle coordinates
18:05:48  <Sylf> :D
18:05:56  <andythenorth> I am assuming he’s about 12
18:05:58  <peter1138> frosch123, probably badly :)
18:06:00  <andythenorth> so we’ll forgive
18:06:04  <frosch123> either they were increased to int64, or that patch was buggy as hell, which wouldn't surprise me
18:06:08  <V453000> :)
18:06:12  <Sylf> my memory stopped at 65536 :D
18:06:13  <andythenorth> I find forums are much better if you assume most people are < 18
18:06:21  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: err, 2^20*2^12 = 2^32
18:06:39  <andythenorth> on the other hand my experience of forum’s for adult lego fans suggests that some people just seem < 18
18:06:43  <peter1138> andythenorth, I have a habit of assuming pretty much everyone on the Internet is about 12.
18:06:45  <andythenorth> whilst being mid 30s
18:06:57  <andythenorth> peter1138: valid
18:07:14  <frosch123> @calc 2**31 / 64
18:07:14  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 33554432
18:08:13  *** TomyLobo [] has joined #openttd
18:08:15  <Sylf> I'm actually curious to see just 1 map that's reasonablly full in that 1048576x1048576 space
18:08:19  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: even if you limit to 2^31 for... reasons, then the other dimension would still be 2^11=2024
18:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause> err
18:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause> 2048
18:08:36  <Sylf> or even 4096x4096 map even
18:09:16  <frosch123> hmm, yeah, no idea then
18:09:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Sylf: even a 2048x1024 very sparse map i only connected half the map
18:10:14  <Eddi|zuHause> funnily, it was full length along the long edge, and only halfway on the other edge
18:10:34  <frosch123> hmm, i also thought we limited mapsize to 4k, to not exceed 15bit vehicle coordinates, but they are int32 anyway
18:10:50  <Sylf> if I divide 4096x4096 into 1024^2 squares and fill each square with 1 company, I'd fill up 15/16 of the map...
18:10:50  <frosch123> so, i am all over confused
18:10:56  <Sylf> that's a lifetime project
18:11:06  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: there is no actual reason for a 4k limit
18:11:18  <frosch123> but hmm, let's say there are some bits for more detailed vehicle coords
18:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i think the next actual limit is the newgrf variable that stores the map size
18:11:32  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: there was, but it may have been wrong
18:12:07  <frosch123> we decided against 8k for some reason, because of some int16 issue
18:12:12  <frosch123> but i don't know where
18:13:04  <peter1138> Is there one? heh
18:13:17  <frosch123> but well, it's big enough; the only ones who want it bigger will always want it bigger
18:13:18  <peter1138> Isn't "4096 is already too bloody big" a good enough reason? :D
18:13:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't want to look up that newgrf stuff now... but it was something like 4 bit to store exponent-6
18:13:56  *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
18:13:59  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
18:14:00  <Eddi|zuHause> which sounds too large
18:14:16  <Eddi|zuHause> which means i'm probably wrong
18:14:24  * peter1138 ponders revisiting his evil plan to increase tile resolution beyond 16.
18:14:30  <frosch123> @calc 2*(15+6)
18:14:30  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 42
18:14:34  <frosch123> @calc 2**(15+6)
18:14:34  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 2097152
18:14:46  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, no, it also stored "x+y-12" or so
18:15:01  <frosch123> 8 bits for x+y-12
18:15:04  <frosch123> 4 bits for x-6
18:18:51  <peter1138>  17 static const uint TILE_PIXELS    = 32;            ///< a tile is 32x32 pixels
18:18:56  <peter1138> uh huh
18:19:01  <peter1138> tiles are 32x32 pixels... yes... right...
18:19:26  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: or maybe it was 3 bits?
18:19:40  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: no, i actually looked at the code
18:20:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even find the variable number...
18:20:36  <frosch123> peter1138: it actually is :p
18:20:49  <peter1138> How?
18:20:57  <peter1138> 64x31 is... more normla.
18:21:03  <frosch123> if you shovel the pixels around into a horizontal rectangle, you get 32x32 pixels
18:21:18  <frosch123> of 64x32 only half of the pixels belong to the tile
18:21:23  <b_jonas> but many tiles will be larger because they raise above the ground
18:21:46  <b_jonas> but yeah, they cover 32x32 of ground
18:22:18  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: newgrf.cpp:6469
18:22:45  <V453000> the fuck, discussing even bigger map than 4k? :D
18:22:47  <V453000> srsly
18:22:52  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: in one row of tiles each tile is 64 pixels apart, but the next row is overlapping, and offset by 32 pixels
18:23:15  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: this discussion will always be going on.
18:23:29  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: every two weeks, another person will demand a bigger map
18:23:32  <V453000> for no real use though :)
18:23:39  <peter1138> Can't have everyone competing for the same resources...
18:23:47  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: this is independent of what size the maximum is
18:23:55  <V453000> yes Eddi :)
18:24:32  <V453000> perhaps loading a fuckload of 32Bpp newGRFs could force more people to play SMALLER maps XD
18:24:55  <b_jonas> V453000: ah, good idea!
18:25:16  <b_jonas> hmm no, I don't think it works like that
18:25:20  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: people also demand more NewGRFs
18:25:27  <V453000> oh right
18:25:49  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you mean, the only thing they do not demand is more smartness?
18:25:58  <peter1138> Sorry, I should never have allowed multiple vehicle sets :S
18:26:00  <V453000> idk how much cpu havoc can yeti do :)
18:26:13  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that would require people admitting they're not smart
18:26:20  <frosch123> V453000: you are merely adding a challenge to make it run smoothly
18:26:31  <frosch123> no progression without a good reason to do it
18:26:38  <V453000> xd
18:26:49  <b_jonas> And just like with any other program, people will demand multi-threading and gpu acceleration because those are trendy buzzwords.
18:27:16  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: there were "sets" containing single aircraft even before that
18:27:25  <frosch123> true, why did peter not add png9 style gui zoom? :p
18:27:40  <V453000> shit sets, nuff sed Eddi :P
18:27:51  <peter1138> png9?
18:28:07  <frosch123> hmm, or is it called "nine-patch"?
18:28:33  <frosch123> anyway, it means cutting a image into nine pieces, and not scaling the corners, and scaling the edges only along one axis
18:28:49  <frosch123> which works for rectangular gui buttons to not scale the bevels, but the interior
18:28:49  <V453000> wat
18:28:49  <peter1138> Oh, I see.
18:28:58  <V453000> oooo
18:29:01  <peter1138> That's... not really useful.
18:29:11  <frosch123> there was some guy on the forums suggesting to add that popular andriod technique to ottd
18:29:29  <V453000> forums.
18:29:39  <peter1138> Ok... because? :p
18:29:50  <frosch123> i flamed him :)
18:29:53  <V453000> "there was a guy on the forums suggesting...."
18:29:56  <V453000> what a sentence XD
18:29:57  <peter1138> How would it scale? :s
18:29:58  <b_jonas> have people started to demand intermediate zoom levels between the doubling steps yet?
18:30:08  <peter1138> b_jonas, always
18:30:12  <frosch123> b_jonas: yes, planetmaker for once :p
18:30:17  <V453000> LOL
18:31:54  <andythenorth> “common sense is not in common supply” <- quote I saw once
18:32:19  <V453000> (:
18:32:35  <peter1138>
18:32:41  <andythenorth> I need gui zoom 1.5 btw
18:33:00  <peter1138> You can do that the old way.
18:33:01  <andythenorth> just saying
18:33:01  <frosch123> that's also what pm asked for :p
18:33:02  <V453000> 1,3457 gui?
18:33:21  <peter1138> Just provide 1.5x size sprites...
18:33:23  <frosch123> V453000: you mean 3.14159 ?
18:33:26  <V453000> vector gui
18:33:27  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: perfectly viable if we switch to svg :)
18:33:38  <V453000> NO frog :D
18:33:45  <andythenorth> font icons
18:33:52  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: :
18:33:55  <V453000> :)
18:34:35  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (1+sqrt(5))/2
18:34:35  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 1.61803398875
18:35:14  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: make a patch to scale error windows to that ratio
18:35:47  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but they are red error windows, not golden error windows
18:36:09  <frosch123> gold is over-rated
18:36:24  <V453000> slugs rule
18:36:48  <frosch123> and historically there has been a lot of red about gold
18:37:12  <V453000> no red bout slugs
18:37:34  <Eddi|zuHause> historically, a lot of things were red that aren't red anymore
18:37:38  <Eddi|zuHause> like... orange
18:37:42  <frosch123> unless you add gta style graphics to level crossing
18:38:18  <frosch123> you know, slugs driving over slow unicorns on level crossing
18:41:43  <V453000> wtf is gta style crossing
18:42:19  <frosch123> what is the main thing to play gta < 3 ?
18:42:57  <V453000> idk
18:43:09  <frosch123> ... to find the tank and drive through the town and leaving red circles behind everywhere
18:43:16  <V453000> K :D
18:44:10  <frosch123> are you too young to have played gta < 3 ?
18:45:48  <frosch123> <- horrible music in the background, but that's the game i mean
18:46:47  <Eddi|zuHause> steering the tank is horrible :p
19:38:24  <andythenorth> hmm
19:38:26  <andythenorth> Yetis
19:39:07  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
19:39:30  <Wolf01> hi o/
19:44:26  <Alberth> o/
19:45:14  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
19:45:39  * andythenorth considered adding Yeti supportt
19:45:48  <andythenorth> but the sets I’m doing are super-realisms :|
19:52:56  <frosch123> just make the yetis look realistic
19:53:08  *** Brumi [] has quit []
19:53:14  <frosch123> e.g. make them sit on the wagon, and give them safety belts
19:53:24  <andythenorth> yeti’s don’t have animated rivets :(
19:53:38  <andythenorth> yetis *
19:53:42  <andythenorth> bloody ‘
19:56:50  <V453000> andythenorth: if your set only has not-realistic YETI cargo, it will also be not-realistic only when YETI is loaded ;)
19:56:58  <V453000> that implies it is correct
19:57:50  <V453000> frosch123: I played all of the GTAs :D actually I am not young enough to even try 4, didnt care anymore
19:58:05  <V453000> gnyght
19:59:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i only played GTA 1
19:59:35  *** Myhorta [] has joined #openttd
20:02:33  <andythenorth> oops
20:02:35  <andythenorth> forgot
20:02:43  <andythenorth> you have to compile newgrfs, not just change the src :P
20:03:04  <frosch123> night
20:03:07  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
20:03:57  <andythenorth> bah
20:04:03  <andythenorth> stupid FIRS supply requirements
20:05:15  <Sylf> ikr
20:06:35  <fonsinchen> andythenorth, thanks for the machine
20:06:40  <andythenorth> it arrived? :)
20:06:43  <andythenorth> in one piece?
20:09:27  *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd []
20:09:32  <fonsinchen> seems so.
20:09:47  <fonsinchen> It won't recognize that USB stick for installation, though.
20:10:42  <andythenorth> oh :|
20:10:57  <fonsinchen> It probably wants me to burn that .cdr file on a DVD
20:11:09  <andythenorth> probably
20:11:16  <andythenorth> I didn’t set it up - our office manager did it :)
20:11:43  <andythenorth> I was hoping we could avoid you having to get hold of OS X DVD for dev tools and such
20:14:35  <fonsinchen> xcode is normally not included. You have to install it separately anyway. And maybe I can use your USB stick for installation after all ... with some preparation
20:17:03  <andythenorth> does the machine boot?
20:17:25  *** Defaultti [] has quit [Quit: Quitting.]
20:19:00  <fonsinchen> sure, to the point where it searches for an OS and doesn't find one ...
20:19:21  *** Defaultti [] has joined #openttd
20:19:41  <fonsinchen> On the USB stick there is a dvd image it seems, as file
20:19:57  <andythenorth> oh sorry, I thought we’d installed an OS
20:19:59  <andythenorth> :(
20:20:03  <fonsinchen> so if I just dd that to the raw storage on the stick it might work
20:20:04  *** Quatroking [] has joined #openttd
20:20:24  <Quatroking> I am Quatroking, and #openttd is my new favorite autojoin channel of the IRC
20:25:11  *** Pensacola [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:38:55  <Quatroking> to update my existing openttd install I just install 1.4.4 over it, right
20:39:29  <Sylf> yes, or download zip file and unzip over the existing files
20:40:26  <Quatroking> cool
20:42:29  *** Supercheese [~Superchee@] has joined #openttd
20:43:20  <peter1138> Super! Cheese!
20:46:23  <Supercheese> Indeed
20:51:30  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
20:53:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: what i wanted to say... have you considered making a genitive_uppercase and a genitive_lowercase case?
20:53:46  <Supercheese> That would certainly work, but ugh it would be quite the hack
20:54:04  <Rubidium> *or* maybe something generic?
20:54:21  <Supercheese> First I have to figure out why it won't allow cases in the gamescript translation
20:54:35  <andythenorth> balls
20:54:51  <Rubidium> {UPPER}{CARGO} or {LOWER}{CARGO} which changes the case for the first character
20:55:06  <andythenorth> farms need 56t supplies, mines need 84t
20:55:08  <Rubidium> (no idea how/whether this works for Arabic)
20:55:17  <andythenorth> so mines would go nicely with 42t vehicles
20:55:20  <Supercheese> {CARGO_LIST} refuses to accept cases
20:55:25  <andythenorth> but farms need 56t
20:55:28  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: they probably have to be enabled somewhere/matched to the openttd cases
20:55:47  <andythenorth> stupid FIRS
20:55:48  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: at least that's how it works for newgrfs
20:55:52  <Supercheese> I see
20:56:09  <Rubidium> Supercheese: {CARGO_LIST} should accept cases
20:56:21  <Supercheese> Yes, it does in the base game translation
20:56:32  <Supercheese> but Silicon Valley may require some extra work to enable it as Eddi|zuHause  said
20:56:48  <Supercheese> eints claims, "Error: Case detected in string command CARGO_LIST but the project does not allow cases"
20:57:24  <Eddi|zuHause> it might also be an eints bug.
20:57:25  <Rubidium> Supercheese: there are no cases defined for the siliconvalley translation it seems
20:57:46  <Eddi|zuHause> or missing feature
20:59:20  <Quatroking> how do I remove content that I downloaded
20:59:46  <Eddi|zuHause> find the file on the hard disk and delete it
21:00:05  <Quatroking> that.. doesn't really sound user-friendly
21:00:08  <Eddi|zuHause> or just ignore it and don'T activate it
21:00:17  <andythenorth> bloody FIRS
21:02:21  <Eddi|zuHause> the person who made firs must be an idiot
21:02:45  <andythenorth> yes
21:05:35  <andythenorth> I could allow a size refit
21:05:47  <andythenorth> 42 / 56 / 84
21:06:14  <Eddi|zuHause> what about 28?
21:06:29  <Rubidium> what about 70?
21:07:53  <andythenorth> 28 would be logical
21:08:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i think this is opening a can of worms
21:08:37  <Eddi|zuHause> just make one vehicle carry 30 and the other 90
21:08:52  <Eddi|zuHause> and let them piece it together
21:09:16  <andythenorth> they’ll complain
21:09:17  <Eddi|zuHause> so either you use 2x30 for a farm, 3x90 for a mine, or you just make 90 and be done with it
21:09:23  <andythenorth> about the lack of optimisation
21:09:27  <andythenorth> and the waste
21:09:36  <andythenorth> they’re always fricking complaining about wasted supplies
21:09:42  <andythenorth> and timetabling and crap
21:09:55  <Rubidium> yes...  they want monthly timetables...
21:09:58  <andythenorth> 90 is a nice number though
21:10:17  <Eddi|zuHause> you fail the rule of thumb: only 1% of the users ever visit the forum, and only 1% of those complain about anything
21:10:23  <Rubidium> but to be certain you need to deliver every 28 days
21:10:27  <Rubidium> @calc 365/28
21:10:27  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 13.0357142857
21:10:46  <andythenorth> I might just cripple supplies
21:10:57  <andythenorth> I seriously considered an easy mode
21:11:03  <andythenorth> deliver once a year, get full production
21:11:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: ic111's timetable patch allows to put in padding days so it'll align with the month
21:11:19  <Rubidium> so you have *one* delivery too many anyhow... so say 28 which is already more than you'd lose by delivering two supplies too much
21:11:20  <andythenorth> but then the players who obsess about stupid timetables would play ‘hard’
21:11:41  <andythenorth> boxed myself into a corner with this :D
21:12:17  <andythenorth> they’re trying to optimise delivery, I’m trying to optimise player whining
21:12:22  <andythenorth> who’s sillier? :D
21:12:35  <andythenorth> :P
21:14:03  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you, because you're fighting the lost cause
21:15:05  <fonsinchen> andythenorth, you should tell your IT guy that those disk images are supposed to be "burnt", not "copied". That also holds if you put them on USB sticks ...
21:15:35  <andythenorth> yeah :|
21:15:38  <andythenorth> I did tell them that
21:15:48  <andythenorth> they’re not so much IT guys as office managers :)
21:16:04  <andythenorth> that means peter1138 will have the same problem :P
21:16:29  <andythenorth> I bet they didn’t have and DVD-Rs, and thought it would work
21:16:34  <andythenorth> we never have DVDs around any more
21:17:04  <andythenorth> is the USB image an iso you can burn?
21:17:07  <fonsinchen> meh, it still doesn't work. Recognizes the USB stick as install medium, but doesn't install
21:17:33  <fonsinchen> There is an iso file on the USB stick
21:18:01  <Rubidium> andythenorth: ask Roy?
21:18:02  <fonsinchen> You can copy that off and dd it back to the USB stick. Then the mac will recognize it
21:18:17  <andythenorth> but then it won’t install?
21:18:58  <fonsinchen> It does some "spinning" and ultimately shows that circle with line through thing it also shows when it doesn't find any OS
21:19:14  <andythenorth> bah
21:19:33  <fonsinchen> maybe I have to make a partition table and put the data into a partition
21:19:47  <andythenorth> got any other macs?
21:20:11  <andythenorth> I’m just wondering if that one actually has a HD in it :P  We strip them out for infosec reasons
21:20:17  <andythenorth> I assume it does
21:21:07  *** InvokeStatic [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:21:12  <fonsinchen> It shows a HD when holding alt during boot
21:21:17  <fonsinchen> 320GB
21:21:21  *** InvokeStatic [] has joined #openttd
21:21:22  <andythenorth> sounds about right
21:22:13  <andythenorth> sorry it’s a hassle
21:22:36  <andythenorth> if you can’t figure it out we’ll burn a DVD and mail it
21:22:45  <andythenorth> or linux it :P
21:25:38  <fonsinchen> I've managed to do this before, with a different mac. It was a pain, though. I needed a firewire disk
21:25:52  <fonsinchen> It seems Intel macs should be able to boot from USB, though
21:26:31  <andythenorth> I have done the FW thing many times
21:26:47  <andythenorth> if you’re lucky it’s at least USB 2
21:26:49  <andythenorth> but might be USB 1
21:28:16  <fonsinchen> nah, USB1 is 90s
21:28:21  <fonsinchen> This thing is newer
21:28:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never in my life seen a USB1 port
21:30:16  <andythenorth> imac
21:30:22  <andythenorth> had one
21:30:27  <andythenorth> 2 even
21:30:42  <andythenorth> like staring into the future
21:31:19  <Wolf01> i have an old pc with a USB1 expansion card (2 ports), and even a pc without USB
21:32:15  <peter1138> I had a motherboard that was advertised as having USB21.
21:32:16  <peter1138> err
21:32:17  <peter1138> USB2.
21:32:26  <peter1138> It didn't, so a PCI card was shoved in the box...
21:32:42  <andythenorth> SCSI
21:32:45  <andythenorth> is all I’m saying
21:33:15  <andythenorth> dire warnings about even touching the cable whilst the £500 scanner was plugged into the mac
21:33:23  <Wolf01> ISA, I still have a network card somewhere which is bigger than most new motherboards
21:33:33  <andythenorth> even wiggling it could allegedly destroy both mac and peripheral
21:37:03  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
21:37:16  <Rubidium> SCSI... that's the thing with yearly wider connectors, right? ;)
21:38:09  <andythenorth> yeah
21:38:16  <andythenorth> except for micro SCSI
21:38:19  <andythenorth> or something
21:38:23  <andythenorth> huge connector anyway
21:38:45  <andythenorth> and all the devices must be powered up before the computer
21:38:50  <andythenorth> and you have to set IDs
21:39:03  <andythenorth> and the controller chips die if you even look at them funny
21:39:22  * Rubidium primarily remembers disks spinning up one after another
21:39:29  <Rubidium> LUN0...
21:39:34  <Rubidium> <aircraft taking off>
21:39:38  <Rubidium> LUN1...
21:39:44  <Rubidium> <another aircraft taking off>
21:40:46  <andythenorth> then FW happened and spoilt all the fun
21:41:12  <andythenorth> and you could plug in your video camera without having to send away tapes to be digitised and sent back on a CD
21:41:18  <andythenorth> and now look
21:43:41  <andythenorth> also bedtime
21:43:43  <andythenorth> bye
21:43:46  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
21:44:52  <Eddi|zuHause>
21:45:37  <Wolf01> what really makes me laugh is that on old HDDs, if a blackout happened, the heads would have crash-landed on the disks, carving them to death, then they added some capacitors and the problem was solved... on ealry SDDs the hystory repeated...
21:47:00  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: looks like a stupid license because you only need one to "remove" the license
21:52:15  <Rubidium> <- definitely a boys club under that license
21:52:46  <Rubidium> but I digress and play along with the troll ;)
21:53:40  <Quatroking> ah, openttd, where cities are okay with you destroying half the landscape as long as you plant fancy trees for them
21:58:01  *** Supercheese [~Superchee@] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
21:59:48  *** TomyLobo [] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...]
22:00:42  <Quatroking> "can't clear this area.. bum county local authorities refuse to allow this"
22:00:47  * Quatroking plants trees
22:00:51  <Quatroking> and away goes the bridge!
22:02:04  <Wolf01> it's by design :)
22:02:09  *** pixar [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:04:52  <fonsinchen> for the record: putting the OSX install image into a partition on the USB stick helps.
22:15:04  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:34:33  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
22:34:45  *** liq3 [] has joined #openttd
22:40:28  *** kais58__2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:50:52  <Wolf01> 'night
22:50:56  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:01:10  *** Flygon_ [] has joined #openttd
23:07:14  *** Flygon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:10:09  *** Flygon_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:58:36  *** kais58 [] has joined #openttd

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk