Log for #openttd on 26th October 2014:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:20:18  *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
00:27:47  <argoneus> good night train friends
00:31:14  *** theholyduck [~theholydu@2602:ffea:1:73b::8c23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:31:14  *** Keyboard_Warrior is now known as theholyduck
00:32:11  *** Keyboard_Warrior [~theholydu@2602:ffea:1:73b::8c23] has joined #openttd
00:51:06  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
00:57:06  <supermop> hi
00:57:31  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
02:13:49  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:15:09  *** Flygon_ [] has joined #openttd
02:15:10  *** Flygon [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:15:16  *** shansen [] has quit [Quit: Goodbye!]
02:26:22  *** Quatroking [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:39:09  *** SHOTbyGUN__ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:09:34  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
03:18:15  *** Xrufuian [] has joined #openttd
03:50:47  *** Biolunar_ [] has joined #openttd
03:57:42  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:48:02  *** Taede [~Taede@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:56:55  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
05:02:21  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:08:02  *** supermop [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
05:08:28  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
05:23:53  *** Pereba [~UserNick@] has quit [Quit: My quit tool detected that your client is infected by an unknow virus. We recommend a new client:]
05:25:26  *** Hazzard [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:45:18  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
05:56:02  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
05:56:16  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
06:02:29  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
06:50:28  *** Pensacola [] has joined #openttd
06:55:48  <andythenorth> o/
06:55:57  *** Pensacola [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:56:31  *** Pensacola [] has joined #openttd
06:58:56  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
08:05:56  *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:6019:3e35:6ff:be2e] has joined #openttd
08:10:37  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@] has joined #openttd
08:21:17  *** Taede [~Taede@] has joined #openttd
08:29:51  *** Jomann [] has joined #openttd
08:44:44  *** TomyLobo [] has joined #openttd
09:02:30  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
09:03:14  <planetmaker> moin
09:03:59  <andythenorth> lo
09:04:10  <planetmaker> seems to have been a very quiet night :) Everybody enjoyed the additional hour of sleep? :)
09:04:22  <andythenorth> ugh
09:04:40  <andythenorth> children’s body clocks are immune to clock changes
09:12:31  <frosch123> i thought i woke up early, but it's 10 nevertheless
09:16:00  <liq3> ugh Daylight savings. Wish it didn't exist.
09:16:32  <frosch123> how does it matter?
09:16:58  <frosch123> people change timezones by 4 hours between weekends and workdays
09:17:08  <liq3> some people do.
09:17:13  <frosch123> how do you even notice one hour?
09:18:07  <liq3> it's not just sleep - it changes when it gets dark.
09:19:03  *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
09:19:06  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
09:20:11  <planetmaker> well daylight savings does not fulfill the promise under which it was introduced :)
09:20:30  <frosch123> you mean, it never saved daylight?
09:20:37  <planetmaker> :D
09:20:45  <frosch123> i also thought the sun does not care
09:20:50  <planetmaker> Na, I think the argument was that it helps to save energy. But...
09:21:20  <planetmaker> ... all it does is cause a dip on productivity once or twice a year as all people lack sleep
09:21:54  <frosch123> nah, it's monday anyway
09:23:14  <Alberth> planetmaker: yep, and now they want to get rid of it, and can't because "other countries have it too" :p
09:23:18  <Alberth> hi hi all btw
09:24:08  <planetmaker> hi hi Alberth. Yes, I've heard exactly that argument
09:24:12  <Alberth> I think the biggest benefit is that once a year you can suddenly get out of bed while it is light again :)
09:24:15  <planetmaker> I find that... not exactly convincing
09:24:28  <planetmaker> the argument with "other countries"
09:24:40  <Alberth> indeed :)
09:25:00  <planetmaker> if you can agree on how much a cucumber or bananas is allowed to be bent then you can damn well agree on a time change :)
09:25:03  <planetmaker> or none
09:25:19  <frosch123> but who is going to patch windows xp?
09:25:40  <Alberth> nobody, as MS gave up support for it?
09:25:54  <planetmaker> oh, they still will patch it. They just charge $$$$ for it
09:26:06  <planetmaker> Lower Saxony purchased continued support for several Million€
09:26:19  <Alberth> \o/
09:26:19  <planetmaker> stupid government. Not fit to handle anything it seems
09:27:31  <Alberth> obviously, TCO of open source is much more expensive :p
09:27:50  <planetmaker> yeah, totally
09:28:02  <planetmaker> as obviously was migrating to a newer windows version in time
09:28:13  <planetmaker> it seems like the end of support for XP came as a total surprise
09:31:21  <Alberth> if you skipped windows 7, windows 8 is a bit early perhaps
09:32:03  <planetmaker> there's already windows10.
09:32:47  <Alberth> oh, don't keep track of stuff sufficiently, apparently :)
09:33:13  <planetmaker> well, it's in beta, but supposed to be released in February or so
09:34:10  <Alberth> it's all a bit of a mess from a system admin point of view, people use mobiles, you have note/lap/net books, tablets, and you have the MS vs Apple problem
09:34:48  <Alberth> so yeah, I can see it's a problem to decide what to do
09:34:50  <planetmaker> a hooray to open standards
09:35:02  <planetmaker> and open interfaces
09:35:51  <Alberth> sure, but new devices and connections pop up all the time, and they are again closed
09:36:20  <Alberth> at the uni we have a new telephone system, with fancy computer support iff you have windows
09:36:39  <fonsinchen> You can also see it from a different angle: XP did the job well enough. There is no technical reason to change the OS.
09:36:44  <peter1138> Was the settings window being got rid of?
09:36:59  <peter1138> Wow, that was a horrible arrangement.
09:37:01  <Alberth> the game options windows
09:37:09  <peter1138> Yeah that one.
09:37:21  <peter1138> The one that the guy using "1920x1080" has a problem with.
09:37:31  <Alberth> yep
09:37:40  <peter1138> Is it done? :p
09:37:43  <planetmaker> peter1138, yes, it should (IMHO) all be moved to settings window. And new game window. Whatever is appropriate
09:38:20  <peter1138> I'm not going to go fixing that window if it is going to be removed, that is all :)
09:38:33  <Alberth> people just add "zoom x2" to the gui without even checking the windows still fit :p
09:38:49  <peter1138> Terrible.
09:38:56  <planetmaker> peter1138, I think the problem really is that font size and GUI size should be separate settings
09:38:59  <peter1138> That one doesn't fit on 640x480, so not exactly my fault!
09:39:17  <planetmaker> but yes, that window is a general problem with its size
09:39:51  <peter1138> planetmaker, I made them same purely because it solves so many problems.
09:40:25  <peter1138> planetmaker, solves the  station feature icons amongst other things.
09:40:33  <andythenorth> I need a bigger screen to fit dialogs on though
09:40:40  <andythenorth> I need them big because eyes
09:40:46  <peter1138> The real problem is lots of code scales height to fit width, whereas it would be better to scale width as well.
09:41:22  <planetmaker> peter1138, I know. Yet I think that this simple solution is not the best solution. Works for now (and better than not), but still is a thing which imho should be separated
09:41:29  <andythenorth> so I’m still playing peter1138’s hm4.png
09:41:32  <planetmaker> now there's time to think about a better solution :D
09:41:33  <andythenorth> definitely a classic
09:41:47  <peter1138> And also, that's mainly why I am not automatically scaling all widgets by 2x/4x.
09:41:51  <planetmaker> and all requests are 'feature' not 'bug' :)
09:42:05  <peter1138> ... because you can still have a freetype font and have the text parts be 1.5x size.
09:43:22  <peter1138> grep GetStringHeight src/*
09:43:23  <peter1138> Hmm
09:43:34  <andythenorth> also
09:43:38  <andythenorth> the game is fun
09:43:43  <andythenorth> did anyone mention that?
09:43:56  <peter1138> If we change that API to suggest a better width, that would solve things...
09:45:07  <andythenorth> the only annoying thing in this game right now is rivers
09:45:23  <andythenorth> everything else is great
09:45:46  <andythenorth> turns out the tiny UI has been barely noticably really annoying for years
09:46:14  <andythenorth> planetmaker: do you have working code to improve rivers via newgrf?
09:47:26  <planetmaker> andythenorth, my best river code currently is in OpenGFX+Landscape
09:47:41  <peter1138> Hmm, when we elide text, why do we right-align the ...?
09:47:42  <planetmaker> but it doesn't change the behaviour of rivers really, just how they look
09:47:42  * andythenorth adds it to running game :P
09:47:56  *** Xrufuian [] has quit [Quit: Quit.]
09:48:00  <planetmaker> notably horizontal and vertical rivers are in it
09:48:14  <planetmaker> otherwise not much new due to a lack of sprites
09:48:16  <peter1138> planetmaker, I think we all want rivers to carve at this point :)
09:48:22  <planetmaker> hehe :)
09:48:32  <peter1138> Hmm, I had a patch for half-tile rivers at some point...
09:48:44  <planetmaker> peter1138, those are not needed really
09:49:01  <peter1138> What's needed is better docks!
09:49:05  <planetmaker> yes
09:49:41  <andythenorth> docks
09:49:52  <andythenorth> the river curves can be fixed in newgrf I think
09:50:02  <andythenorth> planetmaker: ogfx+ landscape 1.0.1 fixes rivers?
09:50:33  <andythenorth> custom dikes?
09:50:37  <planetmaker> I think so. yes
09:50:49  <andythenorth> looks less square
09:50:56  <planetmaker> checking for dike map and choosing sprites depending on result
09:51:05  <andythenorth> base game should still do it imho
09:51:06  <planetmaker> just lots more sprites than all other river sets :D
09:51:11  <andythenorth> but if this is the way, then this is the way
09:51:54  <planetmaker> andythenorth, a base set could do the same
09:52:03  <planetmaker> base sets don't do it any different
09:52:18  <andythenorth> TTD base set can’t?
09:52:58  <planetmaker> can. If someone made the sprites and coded it in nfo.
09:53:14  <planetmaker> rivers are a 100% custom thing not found in TTD
09:53:38  <andythenorth> maybe I should find the sprites I drew
09:55:34  <frosch123> [10:47] <peter1138> Hmm, when we elide text, why do we right-align the ...? <- because that was the easiest solution that looked somewhat correct with alternating ltr and rtl text
09:57:06  <andythenorth> hmm I think I deleted better river sprites
09:57:08  <andythenorth> was sulking
09:58:24  <andythenorth> yes this always looks good
09:58:42  <andythenorth> although this looks better
09:59:49  <planetmaker> it does
10:00:21  <andythenorth> yum
10:01:00  <planetmaker> that's newgrf-able
10:01:56  <peter1138> frosch123, is it not possible to put it at the end of the text?
10:02:15  <peter1138> (or "beginning" for RTL)
10:02:27  <andythenorth>
10:02:34  <andythenorth> ^ that’s what I deleted in a huff
10:03:32  <peter1138> So, uh...
10:03:49  <peter1138> Airport-like docks, or rail platform-like docks?
10:03:58  <planetmaker> @ andythenorth
10:03:59  <andythenorth> bouy like
10:04:17  *** Celestar [] has joined #openttd
10:04:20  <andythenorth> planetmaker: definitely better than curent state
10:04:27  <peter1138> andythenorth, for the land-part
10:04:37  *** DDR [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
10:04:38  <andythenorth> well
10:04:54  <andythenorth> I like rail-like, because simple
10:05:01  <planetmaker> peter1138, I think rail-like is nicer
10:05:06  <andythenorth> it’s not future proof
10:05:12  <planetmaker> andythenorth, "simple" probably goes vice versa :P
10:05:33  <andythenorth> don’t we have to wait until NewStations to do this?
10:05:59  <andythenorth> with players building their own state machine and everything
10:06:42  *** Quatroking [] has joined #openttd
10:07:04  <peter1138> And then, specific docking point(s) or just anywhere adjacent to a dock tile?
10:07:13  <andythenorth> anywhere adjacent
10:07:18  <frosch123> i think specific docking points
10:07:24  <andythenorth> which is easier to route to?
10:07:24  <planetmaker> specific is my preference, too
10:07:34  <peter1138> I think specific is easier.
10:07:39  <andythenorth> for pathfinder?
10:07:42  <frosch123> but any of the 4 neighbours could be easier
10:07:56  <andythenorth> do whatever is most reliable for pathfinder?
10:08:05  <andythenorth> ship routing has enough issues
10:08:11  <andythenorth> is 90º still disabled for ships?
10:08:32  <planetmaker> that setting simply should not apply to ships ever
10:08:35  <peter1138> 90°
10:08:36  <planetmaker> dunno if it does
10:08:39  <frosch123> (easier from a user-interface pov)
10:08:43  <peter1138> You and your fake ° symbol.
10:08:56  <andythenorth> I thought that was the proper one :(
10:09:06  <andythenorth> normally I do 90’
10:09:10  <andythenorth> because symbols
10:09:15  <andythenorth> this irc client is stupid
10:09:17  <peter1138> º is not °
10:09:37  <andythenorth> º°
10:10:01  <frosch123> andythenorth: 1° = 60' = 360"
10:10:15  <planetmaker> :)
10:10:17  <peter1138> º is Spanish masucline ordinal indicator, apparently.
10:10:40  <planetmaker> frosch123, missing *10? :)
10:10:54  <peter1138> On many fonts it has a line under it.
10:10:59  <frosch123> yes :)
10:11:03  <frosch123> 3600"
10:11:41  <andythenorth> somewhere in here there’s the right symbol
10:11:44  <andythenorth> 90 degree
10:11:56  <Prof_Frink> 91.4m
10:12:09  <frosch123> andythenorth: it's fine as long as you use celcius
10:12:30  <frosch123> *celsius
10:14:02  <andythenorth> anyway 90 degree breaks ship routing on rivers
10:14:08  <andythenorth> so I’ve turned it off
10:14:14  <andythenorth> it’s also more fun for trains
10:14:16  <andythenorth> less arsing around
10:14:48  <frosch123> i am sure it breaks tons of coop junction layouts :p
10:14:49  <andythenorth> (off = disabled the limitation)
10:15:31  <andythenorth> I think SV is going to kick my ass again
10:15:37  <andythenorth> 30 years left out of 50
10:15:40  <andythenorth> 1 industry out of 5
10:15:57  <andythenorth> all the primaries are on the wrong side of a 512x512 map
10:16:47  <planetmaker> frosch123, coop always plays with 90° PF being disallowed
10:16:49  <peter1138> :)
10:17:16  <frosch123> planetmaker: that's what i said :)
10:17:24  <planetmaker> ok :)
10:17:29  <frosch123> or suspected
10:17:51  <peter1138> Fuck it, breakdowns off.
10:17:54  <frosch123> because if i rely on that in my junctions, coop for sure does as well
10:18:50  *** fjb is now known as Guest3112
10:18:51  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
10:19:03  <andythenorth> breakdowns definitely off
10:19:17  <peter1138> Allowing 90° breaks even simple X crosses.
10:20:54  <planetmaker> yes... I still think 90° should be disallowed by default
10:21:02  <andythenorth> just remove it for ships
10:21:06  <andythenorth> seems easiest?
10:23:35  <planetmaker> yes
10:23:50  <planetmaker> but still, also for trains it should be off by default
10:24:27  <b_jonas> I'm not sure about that
10:24:51  <b_jonas> 90 deg turns for trains are good for marking rare routes that I want the route planner to discriminate against heavily
10:25:01  <b_jonas> routes that trains should take only when they're really lost or stuck
10:25:42  *** Guest3112 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:25:49  <b_jonas> well, for that I'd also want waypoints that give a message when a train goes through them, for debugging, but that's a different and somewhat orthogonal thing
10:26:08  <b_jonas> of course, this is only for people like me who don't build perfect train routes
10:29:56  <andythenorth> I never manage to complicate things that much
10:30:01  * andythenorth plays quite stupidly
10:30:53  <b_jonas> it's not really complication. if you have two parallel tracks next to each other, you need two rails forming a 90 deg turn to allow trains to make an emergency U-turn
10:31:11  <b_jonas> this, of course, works with path signals only
10:36:40  <TomyLobo> is there a hotkey for reorienting depots and such?
10:38:30  <frosch123> nope
10:38:46  <frosch123> also missed them, but didn't find an untuitive key to bind
10:38:53  <frosch123> i wondered about mousewheel :)
10:39:21  <planetmaker> hm... :)
10:39:23  <frosch123> but mousewheel does zoom
10:40:21  *** Celestar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:40:40  <frosch123> i also couldn't quite decide between a factorio/tetris-style single/dual key rotation, or 4 keys for the 4 directions
10:40:43  <peter1138> Not in TTDPatch!
10:41:44  *** Pensacola [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:42:25  <frosch123> maybe capslock would work :p
10:42:30  <b_jonas> perhaps depots could have a drag and drop mode?
10:42:38  <b_jonas> where you drag in the direction you want the depot to face
10:42:51  <andythenorth> auto-depot
10:42:53  <frosch123> sounds inconvenient
10:43:00  <andythenorth> same as auto-track
10:43:22  <b_jonas> yeah, a keybinding might be better
10:43:29  <b_jonas> so make G rotate it by 90 degrees
10:43:31  <frosch123> andythenorth: doesn't work with area dragging
10:44:01  <frosch123> if you drag a rectangle of depots/roadstops, you cannot tell the orientation
10:44:15  <frosch123> why G?
10:44:25  <b_jonas> wait... drag a rectangle of depots? people do that?
10:44:28  <frosch123> does any other software use G?
10:44:42  <frosch123> they certainly do for roadstops
10:44:54  <frosch123> i cannot quite remember currently, whether it worked for depots as well
10:44:55  <andythenorth> I do it all the time
10:45:00  <andythenorth> for roadstops
10:45:01  <andythenorth> not depots
10:45:07  <b_jonas> I don't insist on G, but G is already used by a dialog, so it could be a keybinding that depends on what tool or dialog is open
10:45:13  <frosch123> but building multiple depots next to each other is common, just as is building long dpoets
10:45:24  <b_jonas> ah, for road stations, sure, you could want to drag those
10:45:33  <b_jonas> by the way, is there a reason why "buy land" can't be dragged?
10:45:42  <frosch123> somewhat
10:45:52  <b_jonas> or is that just a heritage from ttd like how in ttd you can't drag trees
10:45:54  <frosch123> but not really
10:46:42  <frosch123> the argument is that buy land is used by noone but trolls
10:46:51  <b_jonas> I wanted to be able to drag buy land for reserving a place for airports (even though I know buy land is generally more expensive than diagonal rails, but in openttd diagonal rails can be autosloped by a city and buy land isn't)
10:47:01  <b_jonas> frosch123: I'm using it in a single-player game against a town
10:47:02  <frosch123> while the counter argument is, that it is needed for airports or so
10:47:28  <b_jonas> ok... I see, but this was in a single player game
10:51:14  <TomyLobo> frosch123 shift-1..4?
10:51:20  <Alberth> auto-depot <-- rotate the depot to the right orientation when there is only one option?
10:51:35  <Alberth> TomyLobo:  shift is used for cost estimate
10:51:53  <frosch123> Alberth: that would be massively annoying, if you do not want it in that direction :)
10:52:20  <frosch123> Alberth: shift+mousebutton is, but not shift 1-4
10:53:15  <b_jonas> but really, could we just reserve ASDFGHJK for tool-dependent functions, affecting the active tool or dialog? they're already sort of doing that
10:53:20  <b_jonas> except for S which has a clash
10:53:33  <b_jonas> no wait, it's D that has a clash
10:53:35  <b_jonas> I'm not sure
10:53:51  <frosch123> hmm, yeah, looks like only shift+f1.. is used, while plain numbers are still free
10:54:11  <frosch123> b_jonas: you can, check your hotkey.cfg
10:54:22  <frosch123> you can assign global hotkeys, and hotkeys specific to windows
10:54:30  <b_jonas> frosch123: sure, but I can't just invent hotkeys to new functions there
10:54:30  <planetmaker> 'a' should be bound to opening road toolbar :)
10:54:33  <b_jonas> I could fix S or D
10:54:46  <frosch123> planetmaker: a is rail, ctrl+a is road for me :p
10:55:03  <planetmaker> ah, true. Hm... :)
10:55:03  <frosch123> just like d is depot for me, instead of the completely useless dynamite
10:55:13  <b_jonas> what? how is dynamite useless?
10:55:18  <b_jonas> it's the most frequent tool I use
10:55:21  <b_jonas> boom boom!
10:55:28  <b_jonas> I love destroying stuff
10:55:30  <b_jonas> it's better than building
10:55:33  <andythenorth> I should set up a hotkey for road toolbar
10:55:34  <frosch123> i use ctrl+autorail/road to remove stuff
10:55:37  <b_jonas> I have to build sometimes so I can destroy of course
10:55:40  <andythenorth> I could never figure out how to set hotkeys
10:55:43  <frosch123> what is dynamite for?
10:56:05  <frosch123> how often do you remove stations or depots? certainly less often than building depots
10:56:11  <andythenorth> I use d a lot :)
10:56:16  <andythenorth> hmm
10:56:18  <andythenorth> how to hotkey
10:56:35  <frosch123> anyway, that's why hotkeys are personal
10:56:42  <andythenorth> hotkeys.cfg
10:56:45  <frosch123> oh, also the order gui
10:56:55  <frosch123> the default hotkeys for order gui are also quite useless :p
10:57:13  <andythenorth> does hotkey.cfg lose settings constantly like openttd.cfg?
10:57:32  <frosch123> only if your name starts with A
10:58:18  <Alberth> oh dear :p
10:58:34  <b_jonas> what...
10:58:48  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
10:58:57  <b_jonas> which name? the name of the tycoon of the company?
10:59:07  <frosch123> your cia id
10:59:16  <frosch123> every person has a globally unique id
10:59:35  <andythenorth> wow
10:59:46  <andythenorth> I can open road building with shift+A
10:59:47  <andythenorth> :o
10:59:50  * andythenorth is amazed
11:01:49  *** Celestar [] has joined #openttd
11:02:07  <peter1138> Okay... stations...
11:02:18  <peter1138> What's all this BaseStation and Station malarky?
11:02:36  <frosch123> BaseStation is something with a StationId
11:02:44  <peter1138> Why is train_station in BaseStation, when bus_station and truck_station are in Station?
11:02:45  <frosch123> a Station is something that transfers cargo
11:03:13  <frosch123> Waypoints are BaseStation, but not Station
11:03:16  <andythenorth> yeah, so hotkeys.cfg doesn’t work
11:03:24  <andythenorth> I knew there was a reason I didn’t use it
11:03:38  <frosch123> andythenorth: according to wiki you need to hold down Fn all the time on mac
11:03:39  <peter1138> frosch123, thanks.
11:04:04  <andythenorth> I make changes
11:04:06  <andythenorth> I save the changes
11:04:09  <andythenorth> and they’re reverted
11:04:37  <b_jonas> hold down Fn all the time to do what?
11:04:45  <frosch123> andythenorth: ottd writes config files on exit
11:04:50  <andythenorth> k
11:04:50  <frosch123> and removes invalid syntax while doing so
11:06:39  <andythenorth> yay, autoroad on GLOBAL+SHIFT+A
11:07:29  <frosch123> yay, my nml compiles ogfx+rv again
11:07:50  <andythenorth> :)
11:08:02  <planetmaker> :)
11:08:09  <frosch123> but regression fails
11:08:42  <planetmaker> what did you change, frosch123 ?
11:08:54  <frosch123> grf output
11:09:14  <frosch123> specifically the cache implementation
11:09:36  <planetmaker> ah. Well. Regressions may change...
11:09:43  <planetmaker> if the functionality is maintained :)
11:10:14  <frosch123> nah, the problem is just that with dynamically typed languages, you cannot just hit compile
11:10:22  <frosch123> and it will report all trivial syntax errors
11:10:31  <frosch123> instead you have to execute all code paths :p
11:19:08  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
11:19:14  <Wolf01> hi
11:20:40  <planetmaker> hi
11:22:33  <argoneus> good morning train friends
11:25:33  <andythenorth> ugh trains
11:27:15  <andythenorth> wow, toddler #1 is playing 1x GUI
11:27:20  <andythenorth> that is insanely small :O
11:27:28  <planetmaker> :D
11:29:19  <peter1138> [Config] -Fix: on some systems $_ was set to /usr/bin/make; filter for this (tnx peter1138)
11:29:22  <peter1138> heh
11:29:35  <argoneus> tnx peter1138
11:29:42  <argoneus> you are my greatest ally
11:33:28  <peter1138> :S
11:33:45  <peter1138> andythenorth, retina screen?
11:34:00  <andythenorth> nah
11:34:04  <andythenorth> vanilla
11:34:17  <andythenorth> toddlers don’t get retina screens
11:34:24  <planetmaker> :)
11:34:30  <peter1138> That's alright then.
11:34:31  <planetmaker> they still have good natural retina ;)
11:39:44  <b_jonas> wait, toddlers play ottd?
11:39:55  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, anyone notice this behaviour of amarok where when it starts up it doesn't set the volume to the correct value, but runs with 100% until you change the volume?
11:40:24  <Wolf01> no, but I noticed it on ottd :P
11:40:41  <b_jonas> I play on 1x gui too, but there's one part that causes problems with it: the small font text in vehicle listings showing the group name or earnings of the vehicle
11:41:34  <andythenorth> get the real base set
11:41:38  <Alberth> b_jonas: black = good, red = bad
11:41:42  <andythenorth> fonts are fine in real base set
11:42:02  <b_jonas> Alberth: yes, and the earnings are shown in the vehicle info dialog too, so the real problem is the group names
11:42:05  <b_jonas> which aren't shown anywhere
11:42:23  <b_jonas> I also hate how the only way to put vehicles in groups is to drag-drop them to a group name line in a vehicle dialog
11:42:25  <peter1138> Ah yeah, that OpenGFX small font is terrible.
11:42:46  <andythenorth> standard
11:42:47  <Alberth> b_jonas: don't use groups, they're useless anyway :)
11:42:57  <andythenorth> I keep thinking I’ll fix OpenGFX instead of whining
11:42:58  <b_jonas> but I like groups!
11:43:00  <peter1138> In the real base set, the small font is all uppercase.
11:43:02  <andythenorth> but the original base set
11:43:27  <andythenorth> so tmwftlb probly
11:43:37  <peter1138> b_jonas, you could just set some font up...
11:44:36  <b_jonas> peter1138: um, in the opengfx font, the small font is all uppercase too. it's just too small
11:44:41  <b_jonas> but yes, I'll try changing the font
11:44:46  <b_jonas> still, the gui for groups is not ideal
11:45:19  <peter1138> b_jonas, no it's not
11:45:38  <andythenorth> it’s not terrible
11:45:53  <peter1138> OpenGFX is definitely mixed-case
11:45:56  <b_jonas> not terrible, sure, but could be improved
11:46:12  <b_jonas> peter1138: hmm. I could be misremembering
11:46:21  <andythenorth> groups UI is bad, but not that bad
11:46:34  <andythenorth> twiddling the UI won’t solve consist management
11:46:47  <b_jonas> "consist management"? what's that?
11:46:59  <andythenorth> it isn't
11:47:02  <andythenorth> that’s the problem
11:47:46  <peter1138> It is autoreplace-for-trains, instead of autoreplace-for-engines-and-wagons
11:48:28  <andythenorth> haven’t noticed the problem in my current game yet
11:48:31  <andythenorth> but only 20 years in
11:49:35  <Quatroking> when I clone a vehicle/train that's using shared orders, why does the new train now follow shared orders?
11:49:42  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yes, 3 years ago, i switched to rhythmbox
11:49:54  <frosch123> that only sometimes sets the volume to 0
11:50:04  <peter1138> Quatroking, now or not?
11:50:10  <Quatroking> not*
11:50:19  <peter1138> You need to press ctrl while cloning.
11:50:29  <peter1138> Seems silly to me but that's how it is.
11:50:34  <Quatroking> aaaah
11:50:40  <Quatroking> thanks, didn't know that one
11:50:52  <Quatroking> yeah it is kinda silly since it does put the new train in the same group as the original
11:50:54  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not like anyone ever reads tooltips
11:51:14  <Quatroking> I haven't read the tooltip in ages lol
11:51:22  <peter1138> Switching it around might make more sense, share by default when cloning.
11:51:41  <Quatroking> if the original train is using shared orders that is
11:52:10  <Alberth> I do use cloning without sharing a lot, different stations bringing the same type of cargo to the same destination
11:52:39  <peter1138> Quatroking, awkward, then you need to know whether the existing vehicle is shared or not, in advanced.
11:52:42  <peter1138> -d
11:52:49  <Quatroking> true
11:53:21  <peter1138> That's probably why it's like it is, even though it doesn't necessarily feel logical.
11:56:15  <Alberth> perhaps also to be more backwards compatible
11:57:07  <frosch123> how about turning capslock into a ctrllock then? :p
11:57:27  <b_jonas> frosch123: ugh... not unless you make that an option only
11:57:55  <frosch123> we can also use scrollock
11:58:06  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
11:58:09  <b_jonas> for cloning, you could just have an option that makes sharing the orders the default when cloning (even if what you clone doesn't yet have shared orders), and not sharing needing control
11:58:14  <frosch123> i believe there are some more keys without function
11:59:09  <frosch123> b_jonas: do you know what magical thing shared orders are?
11:59:28  <b_jonas> frosch123: I use them, but I'm not sure I know how magical they are
11:59:44  <b_jonas> in particular, I clone vehicles sharing the order
11:59:52  <frosch123> do you prefer to explain people why changing orders on one vehicle also affects orders on other vehicles? or would you rather let them repeat order modifications on multiple vehicles
11:59:54  <b_jonas> and also share orders explicitly
12:00:05  <b_jonas> frosch123: no, that's why it should be an _option_
12:00:11  <b_jonas> an option you can toggle
12:00:14  <b_jonas> don't make it the default
12:00:45  <Alberth> extend hotkeys to hotwidgets? :)
12:06:49  <peter1138> sdfsdf
12:10:33  <andythenorth> bbls
12:10:34  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
12:14:12  *** gelignite [] has joined #openttd
12:22:10  <TomyLobo> what's the best way to get industries to close?
12:22:32  <planetmaker> wait?
12:22:41  <planetmaker> and don't service them
12:22:42  <b_jonas> TomyLobo: don't transport to or from them
12:22:48  <planetmaker> and you might still be disappointed :)
12:23:11  <b_jonas> TomyLobo: also if it's the last industry of the same kind, ottd might sometimes want to keep it open, so you may need to found another
12:23:26  <TomyLobo> does it speed things up if i transport from them for a tiny bit of time?
12:23:44  <TomyLobo> b_jonas it's a 4096x4096 map :)
12:23:47  <b_jonas> and I think a few types of industries never close
12:23:55  <TomyLobo> yeah, power plants
12:24:03  <planetmaker> they'll nover close
12:24:06  <b_jonas> what type of industry is this?
12:24:11  <b_jonas> wait, power plants don't close?
12:24:13  <b_jonas> really?
12:24:15  <TomyLobo> but it's more about sawmills, coal mines, iron mines and forests
12:25:20  <TomyLobo> b_jonas yeah, all my power plants so far have been immortal
12:25:47  <b_jonas> there's also a cheat for closing industries, the magic bulldozer, but of course that's cheating
12:25:56  <TomyLobo> "closing"
12:25:59  <TomyLobo> :D
12:26:14  <b_jonas> TomyLobo: I think coal mines and iron mines close just fine if yuo don't transport them
12:26:25  <TomyLobo> b_jonas yeah
12:27:00  <TomyLobo> a friend had the idea that you need to initially transport from them in order to start some kind of decay process
12:27:05  <TomyLobo> is there something to that theory?
12:27:15  <planetmaker> write a NewGRF
12:27:52  <b_jonas> would servicing all other industries at least a bit help that industry to close?
12:28:30  <Alberth> no, it's random with the default industries
12:28:39  <planetmaker> yes. It takes time. And closure is a probability to close per unit time ;)
12:29:06  <Alberth> not servicing is the best way to achieve closure
12:30:20  <Alberth> but at 4096x4096, what do you care? work around the industry
12:30:56  <Alberth> (that strategy also works at smaller maps :) )
12:33:31  <peter1138> 16x16 maps!
12:33:50  <Alberth> 1 industry, 1 town, and it's full
12:33:57  <peter1138> 1048576 x 16
12:34:30  <b_jonas> is it true that oil rigs never close?
12:34:34  * Alberth gets lost
12:34:37  <peter1138> No.
12:45:54  <planetmaker> b_jonas,
12:47:37  <b_jonas> planetmaker: that doesn't help me much
12:48:18  <planetmaker> the industry descriptions tell you the behaviour of the default industries. Thus answer your questions
12:48:29  <planetmaker> but of course it requires reading and clicking
12:48:41  <b_jonas> oh, you mean the individual industry pages
12:48:42  <b_jonas> thanks
12:49:47  <b_jonas> indeed, that says Power Stations don't shut down
12:50:01  <b_jonas> thank you
12:57:46  <Wolf01> yay UML is my new best friend, now that I found this plugin for phpstorm is really easy to write the diagrams, and it helps doing mockups of forms too
13:02:27  *** liq3 [] has quit []
13:08:16  *** supermop [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:12:56  <peter1138> Oh... hmm... our perlin implementation does linear interpolation :(
13:14:44  <Eddi|zuHause> implement cubic splines?
13:15:27  *** SHOTbyGUN [] has joined #openttd
13:15:38  <peter1138> ...
13:21:44  <peter1138> The algorithm only works because it does linear interpolation.
13:22:35  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds weird
13:23:02  <peter1138> Basically, it's not actually perlin./
13:30:23  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could just rip it out and completely rewrite it
13:31:40  <Wolf01> reboot time
13:31:45  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
13:33:47  <peter1138> It's also terrible at producing smoothness. Maybe I reimplemented it incorrectly, but... doubt it.
13:34:33  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
13:36:58  <planetmaker> so... sprite alignment window now always quotes the alignment for the 4x zoom?
13:37:33  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the sprite aligner needs a zoom selector?
13:38:17  <peter1138> Quite likely.
13:39:07  <Eddi|zuHause> also the sprite aligner needs a display of how much you actually changed it
13:39:19  <peter1138> planetmaker, yes. Could be changed. Previously it wasn't possible to align for 4x zoom.
13:39:32  <planetmaker> now it's not possible to align for 1x zoom
13:39:46  <peter1138> /4
13:39:47  <planetmaker> except by 4x as many clicks
13:40:16  <Eddi|zuHause> when i did aligning, the delta values were much more important than the absolute offsets
13:40:33  <peter1138> So add a zoom feature.
13:41:24  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, the absolute values are the values you put in, so...
13:41:41  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: they are not the values i put in my templates
13:42:23  <planetmaker> I agree, a delta value makes sense
13:42:32  <planetmaker> not in place of, but additionally
13:42:51  <peter1138> Well, then you need to remember the original value for the sprite, or maybe *every* sprite.
13:43:21  <peter1138> Sprite aligner changes the values directly, so there is no record of what it started out as.
13:43:28  *** FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
13:44:36  <planetmaker> yes...
13:45:24  <LordAro> cats!
13:48:52  <peter1138> This algorithm is damn quick though.
13:49:16  <Wolf01> damn, wrong virtual machine, now I have to wait until it installs the updates
13:52:33  <peter1138> Heh, on very smooth you can see the ridges that the linear algorithm causes.
13:54:56  <Wolf01> damn virtual machines, xp deactivated its license
14:00:29  <peter1138> Hmm, that linearness is kinda beneficial -- it's much easier to find straight lines to build routes over...
14:00:50  <peter1138> But it completely stuffed up my methods ;(
14:02:40  *** Wolf03 [] has joined #openttd
14:02:40  *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest3125
14:02:40  *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01
14:04:12  *** Guest3125 [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
14:06:25  <Quatroking> is there a way to make the text on the map bigger
14:06:45  <Quatroking> especially this text:
14:06:59  <Alberth> only the map? no
14:07:14  <Quatroking> any text that size really
14:07:17  <peter1138> Ew, OpenGFX small font smells.
14:07:23  <planetmaker> there's two ways
14:07:34  <Quatroking> it's from opengfx?
14:07:36  <Quatroking> ooooh
14:08:22  <Quatroking> eh, it's not much better on original_windows
14:08:39  <peter1138> Same size but all caps.
14:10:13  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:11:01  <Alberth> Quatroking:
14:11:21  <Quatroking> thank you
14:11:39  <planetmaker> hm, TTD baseset is all caps. But I definitely cannot agree that it's better readable
14:12:22  *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
14:20:56  <Quatroking> ooh, arial 10 looks nice
14:21:12  <Quatroking>
14:21:51  *** Celestar1 [] has joined #openttd
14:22:53  <Alberth> it's bigger than the normal font :)
14:23:58  <Alberth> playing with full FIRS economy?  you know there are also basic economies that are way smaller?
14:24:10  <Quatroking> Yeah I know
14:24:46  <Alberth> ok, that's fine, just mentioning it, since the FIRS default is full economy, unfortunately
14:29:07  *** Celestar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:30:57  *** fjb [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
14:33:19  <Quatroking> now this is weird
14:34:09  <Quatroking> I got a nice ferry line between two cities, and for some reason my ships take 3x as much time on the way back compared to the time it takes to get to the second dock
14:34:24  <Quatroking>
14:34:44  <Quatroking> on open sea, distance is the same on both travels
14:35:05  <Quatroking> the boats go super slow half-way and report 132km/h, even though they max out at 112km/h on the first trip
14:35:30  <Alberth> goofy newgrf, boats cannot go faster than 80km/h
14:36:26  <Quatroking> I guess that's the problem then, they're nanaimo 70 hovercrafts from FISH
14:37:31  <FLHerne> Alberth: Thought it was 127km/h, ~80mph?
14:37:47  <Quatroking> ship speed is set to "ideal" in the parameters, the other two choices are "watching paint dry" and "cheating"
14:38:01  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds more likely, as the original hovercraft goes 112km/h
14:38:27  <Alberth> FLHerne: very well possible
14:38:44  <frosch123> Alberth meant 0x80 km/h :)
14:38:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Quatroking: try setting a speed limit in the orders
14:39:37  <Quatroking> Eddi|zuHause, that fixed it
14:39:41  <Quatroking> set the limits on 112 km/h
14:39:49  *** MTs-iPad_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:40:03  *** MTs-iPad [] has joined #openttd
14:41:13  *** MTs-iPad_ [] has joined #openttd
14:41:13  *** MTs-iPad [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:41:20  <Quatroking> uggghhh stupid group name character limit
14:41:29  <Eddi|zuHause> don't know which is the worse bug. FISH setting wrong speed limits, or OpenTTD not correcting them
14:41:44  <Quatroking> I want to use "Padham - Granbridge ferry service" but I can't :(
14:41:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that limit is terrible
14:42:09  <Eddi|zuHause> goes it throw out limitation?
14:42:21  <Quatroking> wat
14:42:28  <peter1138> group names shouldn't be unique either
14:42:41  <Quatroking> unique group names I can live with
14:42:49  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: especially not unique across vehicle types
14:42:51  <peter1138>
14:43:04  <Quatroking> well not unique across vehicle types, no
14:43:15  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, they're not.
14:44:55  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: someone should gravedig that post telling everybody that they're completely wrong
14:45:08  <Quatroking> so what do you guys usually use for company names?
14:45:28  <Quatroking> I just pull up some random crap and throw that in there, with the same face every time because I don't like the faces
14:45:35  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: remember when the sprite limit got raised by 1? :p
14:45:42  <Quatroking> also all the white female faces look super botch
14:45:57  <peter1138> I never bother setting company name or face.
14:46:01  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, nope
14:46:10  <Eddi|zuHause> Quatroking: i usually leave the default name of <Townname> Transport
14:46:25  <Eddi|zuHause> makes it easier to distinguish different games later on
14:48:02  <Quatroking> OpenTTD is C++ right?
14:48:26  <frosch123> it doesn't use std::shared_ptr though
14:51:06  <Quatroking> upping the group name length can't be that hard
14:51:37  <frosch123> "can't be that hard" :)
14:52:14  <Quatroking> I know, I know, silly sentence
14:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause> famous last words :p
14:52:23  <frosch123> there should be a dictionary ottd<->english
14:52:36  <frosch123> "can't be that hard" means about "i don't know why it is there"
14:53:16  <Quatroking> all I ever do is C# and Java and "can't be that hard" sure as hell got me loads of work multiple times
14:53:26  <Wolf01> does anybody knows how to activate that remotefx thingy for hyper-v?
14:54:02  *** Celestar1 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
14:54:58  <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time there was a limit in pixels
14:57:21  <Quatroking> i wish programming was a whole lot easier
14:57:29  <frosch123> the current limit is that commands limits texts to 128 byte or something, and the policy that limits should apply to number of unicode character brings it to 32 chars with 4 bytes per char
14:58:02  <frosch123> no sentence, but maybe you can fix it
14:59:38  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that doesn't make any sense at all
14:59:59  <Eddi|zuHause> a) you can easily check the real UTF8 length of the strings, and b) UTF8 may have more than 4 bytes
15:00:23  <frosch123> depends on the utf 8 revision
15:00:28  <Quatroking> the limit is 31 characters actually
15:00:32  <peter1138> Hmm, having my src folder be a symlink is annoying :S
15:01:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Quatroking: there's always a "end string" character at the end
15:01:01  <peter1138> Our build system gets confused and thinks I'm building in a different tree, if the path is different.
15:01:08  <Quatroking> Yeah, true
15:04:38  <Quatroking> how does one apply patches?
15:04:45  <Quatroking> I'm looking at this one
15:05:51  <peter1138> That's already in.
15:06:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt you're going to manage to apply that patch
15:06:21  <frosch123> <- bjarni will help you
15:06:30  <Quatroking> oh, if it's already in, then nevermind
15:06:39  <Eddi|zuHause> it's actually not in...
15:06:49  <Eddi|zuHause> something entirely different is in
15:06:53  <Alberth>
15:07:16  <Quatroking> blegh, recompiling
15:07:31  <Quatroking> I know how to do that, but that means having to do work
15:07:48  <frosch123> nah, you let compilers to that
15:07:53  <frosch123> you don't do it yourself
15:09:37  <Eddi|zuHause> <Quatroking> i wish programming was a whole lot easier <-- that only helps you in the short term. if programming gets easier, the problems to be solved will get harder
15:10:01  <Quatroking> Heh, I know
15:15:41  <peter1138> That's when you delegate.
15:19:02  <LordAro> "<Eddi|zuHause> [...] b) UTF8 may have more than 4 bytes" wat
15:19:23  <peter1138> Originally.
15:19:29  <peter1138> It was limited though.
15:19:48  <peter1138> Heck, I got it wrong originally and allowed 6-byte sequences.
15:19:53  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: technically, it could be up to 7 bytes
15:20:06  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, nope, that's invalid.
15:20:18  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: ...are you sure?
15:20:31  <Eddi|zuHause> well, that's how i learned it 10 years ago
15:20:39  <peter1138> The encoding method allows it, but the specification prohibits it.
15:20:47  <Eddi|zuHause> although that is probably out of any used range
15:20:58  <peter1138>
15:21:08  <peter1138> "In November 2003, UTF-8 was restricted by RFC 3629 to end at U+10FFFF"
15:21:24  <LordAro> huh]
15:21:42  <peter1138> "huh]" what?
15:22:03  <LordAro> the 6-byteness
15:22:16  <LordAro> anyone for utf-48 ?
15:22:32  <Eddi|zuHause> the technical maximum value would be "11111110 1XXXXXXX 1XXXXXXX 1XXXXXXX 1XXXXXXX 1XXXXXXX 1XXXXXXX 1XXXXXXX"
15:23:03  <Eddi|zuHause> making it 7*7=49 bit
15:23:15  <peter1138> Still, 4 bytes is the maximum.
15:23:32  <Alberth> yeah, but the upper limit was reduced to keep it compatible with other encodings iirc
15:24:07  <peter1138> 1114111 characters should be a enough for everyone!
15:24:19  <peter1138> - all the invalid ranges...
15:24:26  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: where did you get those extra bytes from?
15:24:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i copy-pasted one too much :p
15:24:50  <peter1138> :-)
15:25:00  <Eddi|zuHause> so it's actually 7*6
15:25:06  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: there is no technical maximum
15:25:38  <frosch123> just the length prefix needs multiple bytes at some point
15:25:52  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, UTF8 is a giant hack that worked surprisingly well :p
15:26:10  <frosch123> imho it's defnitely metter than utf16
15:26:21  <LordAro> utf16 is a miserable compromise for sure
15:26:25  <frosch123> imho it's definitely better than utf16
15:26:45  <LordAro> utf8 or utf32 or go home
15:27:05  <Eddi|zuHause> the interesting part of utf8 is that it works for ascii tools which have no clue about encodings
15:27:13  <Eddi|zuHause> like... IRC
15:27:19  <frosch123> and compilers
15:27:37  <michi_cc> The real problem with utf16 is that lots and lots of programmers believe it it ucs-2 instead.
15:27:37  <frosch123> about everything that quotes strings with " or '
15:27:40  <Eddi|zuHause> where UTF32 you need to change those to not barf on 0-bytes
15:28:05  <LordAro> needs more snowman
15:28:06  <LordAro> ☃
15:28:29  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: technically, utf-8 is not ASCII compatible
15:29:08  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: not if your tool is so ancient that it uses the 9th bit as parit
15:29:10  <Eddi|zuHause> y
15:29:26  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: IRC is not and never was ascii.
15:29:39  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: ASCII is only 7 bits
15:30:01  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
15:30:06  <Alberth> hi andythenorth
15:30:11  <Eddi|zuHause> *8th
15:30:34  <LordAro> Alberth: yeah, but only insane (or embedded) systems use non 8-bit (addressable) bytes nowadays
15:30:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yes, and there have been like 100 concurrent extensions to 8 bits for decades
15:31:13  <andythenorth> o/
15:32:22  <Wolf01> nice, I had to activate and update the old XP virtual machine to be able to install RailKing model railroad simulation, then move the installed folder to a network share and use it from this pc
15:35:20  *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
15:36:38  <Alberth> Eddi, yep most ascii tools are actually very much broken in accepting way too much :)
15:42:17  <Eddi|zuHause> one person's "broken" is another person's "working perfectly" :p
15:42:52  <Alberth> maybe we have much fewer ascii tools than we think :)
15:42:57  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
15:46:08  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
15:47:10  *** sla_ro|master [] has joined #openttd
15:53:59  <peter1138> planetmaker, < feel free to finish that off
15:56:19  <TomyLobo> is there any disadvantage to only having 1 tile of a farm covered vs the whole thing?
15:56:37  <Eddi|zuHause> no
15:57:00  <Alberth> except the farm feeling less connected?  :)
15:57:10  <argoneus> guys
15:57:21  <argoneus> any idea who make this?
15:57:22  <argoneus> made*
15:57:26  <argoneus> I want to make a donation
15:58:03  <peter1138> I guess "Hurkenrahl"?
15:58:31  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: the OpenMSX project?
15:58:38  <argoneus> no, this track in general
15:58:40  <argoneus> specifically**
15:58:50  <TomyLobo> on a related note, my empire:,%202034-08-11.png
15:59:11  *** Hazzard [] has joined #openttd
15:59:15  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: look in the credits?
15:59:16  <argoneus> ah
15:59:18  <argoneus> Tisou Blomberg
15:59:22  <argoneus> Tistou*
15:59:27  <peter1138> What happened to all the trees...
15:59:31  <TomyLobo> the thing is, i have a station with 2 farms, one having 729 grain, the other having 99 grain
15:59:38  <TomyLobo> peter1138 X
16:00:08  <Eddi|zuHause> that looks truely horrible...
16:00:24  <Alberth> not to mention, VERY flat :)
16:00:28  <peter1138> There's a bank in the middle of nowhere...
16:00:45  <peter1138> Oh, you destroyed a town.
16:01:02  <TomyLobo> yeah i couldnt tear down the bank
16:01:10  <peter1138> Can't you destroy it with the magic bulldozer?
16:01:17  <TomyLobo> that would be cheating, no?
16:01:25  <TomyLobo> besides, it's not in the way
16:01:32  <peter1138> You're playing a flat world and removing towns, I don't think you need to worry about enabling cheats.
16:01:58  <TomyLobo> it's a flat part of the world
16:02:50  <TomyLobo> also i invested enough money into turning that town into flatness :)
16:03:30  <Eddi|zuHause> for no reason at all...
16:03:57  <Eddi|zuHause> just set number of towns to 1 on world generation, if you have no intention of serving them
16:04:15  <TomyLobo> then the industry generator will hang :)
16:04:22  <peter1138> You need towns for industries to appear.
16:04:27  <TomyLobo> also i do serve a town
16:04:40  <TomyLobo> with shittons of cargo
16:04:44  <TomyLobo> goods*
16:04:57  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to enable more than one industry per town, of course :p
16:05:31  <TomyLobo> yeah
16:05:36  <TomyLobo> then it might work
16:07:16  * peter1138 ponders increasing town separation.
16:09:26  *** Jomann [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:10:48  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a patch somewhere
16:11:41  <peter1138> Well, it's simple, just hard-coded.
16:20:53  <andythenorth> that game looks bad
16:21:00  <andythenorth> is it 32bpp?
16:24:17  *** MTs-iPad [] has joined #openttd
16:24:25  <peter1138> Looks like zBase, yes.
16:25:23  <andythenorth> big job, an entire base set
16:25:27  <andythenorth> that’s all I’m saying
16:25:31  <andythenorth> I wouldn’t take it on
16:25:32  <peter1138> Look all those signals.
16:27:14  *** MTs-iPad_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:30:19  *** MTs-iPad [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:30:20  *** MTs-iPad [] has joined #openttd
16:35:05  *** MTs-iPad [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:35:10  *** MTs-iPad [] has joined #openttd
16:38:31  <andythenorth> pikka tram tracks are nicer than base set
16:38:45  <andythenorth> ‘Light-rail/Tramtracks”
16:39:08  <Eddi|zuHause> sure those are by pikka?
16:39:23  <peter1138> Finescale is Pikka's
16:56:23  *** MTs-iPad [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:56:35  *** MTs-iPad [] has joined #openttd
17:07:04  *** sla_ro|master [] has quit []
17:11:21  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
17:39:08  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
17:46:25  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27045 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-10-26 17:46:16 UTC)
17:46:26  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:27  <DorpsGek> irish - 83 changes by tem
17:46:28  <DorpsGek> gaelic - 1 changes by GunChleoc
17:46:29  <DorpsGek> spanish - 2 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
17:50:16  *** FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
17:56:47  <Eddi|zuHause> why the hell is it called "free antivirus" if it says "your license run out 2 years ago. buy one now!
17:59:12  <Alberth> free doesn't mean free of advertising, apparently
17:59:39  <Eddi|zuHause> but it refuses to update and stuff
18:04:44  *** DDR [] has joined #openttd
18:14:45  <peter1138> Problem with landscape generators is there's no set of settings that consistently produce good maps :S
18:14:47  <Quatroking> is it possible to export my newgrf list along with parameters?
18:15:20  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, save it as a preset
18:15:48  <Quatroking> and then where do I find this preset on my drive
18:15:56  <Eddi|zuHause> in the openttd.cfg
18:24:10  <frosch123> peter1138: preview! :p
18:24:30  <peter1138> Yes please!
18:24:40  <peter1138> My standalone code doesn't have a UI at all...
18:25:18  <peter1138> Hmm, 4 perlin maps and 1 fault map
18:28:20  <peter1138> Shame our algorithm in TGP is crap :S
18:28:21  *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd []
18:28:32  <peter1138> Cos it's good for speed.
18:32:36  <frosch123> speed?
18:32:41  <frosch123> how long does your algorithm take?
18:32:58  <peter1138> Noticably longer.
18:33:25  <frosch123> that's bad for previews
18:33:44  <andythenorth> peter1138: ship pre-made heightmaps
18:33:47  <andythenorth> loads of them :P
18:33:54  <frosch123> i thought when skipping all the industry and town and stuff, height previews would be somewaht instant
18:34:05  <frosch123> andythenorth: you mean like original mapgen? :p
18:34:08  <andythenorth> maybe :P
18:34:15  <andythenorth> good vs. random
18:34:15  <Xaroth|Work> use idle CPU time to generate new maps, aka, pre-generate them while at the main menu etc: P
18:34:19  <Xaroth|Work> on the background
18:34:25  <Xaroth|Work> instant-ready maps \o/
18:34:52  <frosch123> hmm, worms2 generated 5 maps, and then let you pick one
18:35:05  <Xaroth|Work> then create a p2p network so clients can distribute their work to other clients
18:35:10  <peter1138> That's because our algorithm... fast?
18:37:00  *** KouDy [~koudy@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:38:15  <peter1138> 512x512 map taking 3.3 seconds
18:38:37  <frosch123> ah, that doesn't sound too bad
18:39:08  <frosch123> it sounded like minutes :p
18:39:16  <peter1138> Well, let's try 4096x4096
18:42:17  <peter1138> Err....
18:45:19  <peter1138> Err....
18:45:46  <frosch123> if it's linear in time, it will take 3 minutes
18:45:53  <frosch123> if qudratic, it will take 3 hours
18:47:17  <peter1138> And if it takes 7m58?
18:47:35  <peter1138> That's a bit much, let alone previews.
18:48:36  <frosch123> if you have periodic noise, there are some tricks to speed stuff up
18:48:42  <frosch123> instead of recomputing it everywhere
18:49:07  <andythenorth> I usually generate about 30 maps before finding a viable one
18:49:16  <andythenorth> @calc 8*30
18:49:16  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 240
18:49:24  <andythenorth> just 4 hours :D
18:49:34  <peter1138> Took OTTD 1 minute to make a usable game from that heightmap, heh.
18:49:41  <frosch123> andythenorth: well, blame those who play on 4kx4k :p
18:50:23  <andythenorth> just 2 mins for me
18:50:34  <andythenorth> more than 512 is nuts
18:50:54  <frosch123> we should add some achievement mode
18:51:08  <frosch123> you may only start a new map after filling at least 10% of the previous one
18:54:02  <peter1138> Testing with the current algorithmmm: 5.5 seconds
18:54:22  <Eddi|zuHause> like TF only allows you to start in 1900 or 1950 if you reached those dates from a game that you started in 1850?
18:58:24  <peter1138> Urgh,, 4000 towns...
18:58:25  <frosch123> ah, true, that way it would be more rewarding
18:58:38  <frosch123> i thought more of the punishing method :p
18:58:57  <frosch123> if you create a 4kx4k map, you have to register a new account before ever starting a new game
18:59:20  <andythenorth> pay €10
18:59:59  <andythenorth> most of the casual games are farming people who are idiots, or suffer compulsive behaviour
19:00:12  <andythenorth> apparently it’s 1% of players spending 99% of money or such
19:00:18  <andythenorth> we should impose same
19:00:26  <andythenorth> €10 / month for MHL > 32
19:00:29  <frosch123> yeah, 1€ for 1000 track pieces
19:00:32  <frosch123> 1€ fo 100 signals
19:00:42  <andythenorth> €10 / month for each 512 increment in map size
19:00:53  <andythenorth> €10 / month to remove newgrf limit
19:04:39  <Quatroking> wasn't it possible to add/remove newgrf's in existing savegames?
19:04:51  <andythenorth> it is possible
19:05:04  <andythenorth> it tends to scribble all over memory
19:05:42  <peter1138> 0m0.230s
19:05:43  <peter1138> o_O
19:05:50  <Quatroking> ah, found out how
19:06:01  <Quatroking> andythenorth, LIVING ON THE EDGEEEE
19:08:34  * andythenorth living on a prayer
19:08:36  <andythenorth> halfway there
19:10:22  <peter1138> LIVIN IN AMERICAH
19:10:57  <andythenorth> Living in a box
19:11:23  <Quatroking> living in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER
19:11:47  <andythenorth> living on my own
19:12:18  <peter1138> real	0m0.153s
19:12:22  <peter1138> Why so fast :S
19:12:47  <TomyLobo> i hope this works in browsers other than mine :)
19:13:22  <peter1138> If it's meant to be totally white, yes.
19:13:36  <TomyLobo> it works in Iron for me
19:13:43  <peter1138> What is Iron?
19:13:43  <TomyLobo> not so much in firefox :/
19:13:50  <TomyLobo> Iron is Chrome without the bullshit
19:14:06  <peter1138> Loading slowly in Chromium.
19:14:16  <TomyLobo> you're on my upstream :)
19:14:17  <peter1138> The slideshow is finished before it loads the images.
19:14:23  <TomyLobo> well, it repeats
19:14:26  <frosch123> "animation: slideshow 25s linear infinite" <- sounds like a netscape feature from the 90s
19:14:28  <FLHerne> TomyLobo: Whatever it's supposed to do, it doesn't in FF33 here
19:14:32  <frosch123> *90th
19:14:34  <TomyLobo> frosch123 nope, css3
19:14:56  <TomyLobo> frosch123 90s, but still nope :)
19:15:00  <peter1138> Seems to stay on 1 image for a very long time.
19:15:19  <TomyLobo> peter1138for 57% of the animation, in fact
19:15:35  <TomyLobo> i calculated the timings from the dates
19:16:20  <TomyLobo> i dont have any saves of that between 1996 and 2124, so there's that gap
19:16:22  <peter1138> The image isn't centered exactly the same.
19:16:29  <peter1138> Or or looks like it.
19:16:59  <peter1138> Also, transparency mode sucks for this sort of thing.
19:17:03  <peter1138> As does zBase.
19:17:36  <peter1138> But hey.
19:17:55  <peter1138> Must be some way to automatically create a screenshot at a specified location once a year...
19:18:07  *** KouDy [~koudy@] has joined #openttd
19:22:05  <peter1138> Hmm, I guess TGP is incapable of very low frequencies.
19:26:55  <peter1138> Hmm, octaves are inverted.
19:27:23  <peter1138> In perlin, more octaves means more fine detail. In TGP, move octaves means large features.
19:27:31  <peter1138> *more
19:30:57  <TomyLobo> peter1138 i centered on the city using the location button
19:31:03  <TomyLobo> for each screenshot
19:31:28  <TomyLobo> if that's still off-center, it isnt my fault :P
19:32:03  <peter1138> turn of smooth viewport scrolling :p
19:32:09  <peter1138> *off
19:32:29  <TomyLobo> just because it's buggy? :P
19:33:29  <peter1138> nah the way it works means it never quite reaches exactly the same place
19:34:21  <TomyLobo> if distance < 1px, set position to target?
19:35:23  <TomyLobo> buggy or not, i love that feature
19:35:32  <TomyLobo> much less disorienting than insta scroll
19:38:02  <TomyLobo> talking about scrolling... can you have an option to not lock the mouse in place while scrolling? that'd be especially nice with inverted scroling
19:38:40  <TomyLobo> that way you basically push the map around with the mouse
19:38:43  <peter1138> It works until you have some windows open...
19:38:55  <TomyLobo> add a hand cursor and you have google maps :)
19:39:36  <TomyLobo> peter1138 capture all mouse input to the scrolling routie until rmb is released then
19:39:44  <TomyLobo> +n
19:40:04  <andythenorth> OS X port has that map lock feature
19:40:08  <andythenorth> it’s intermittent
19:40:15  <andythenorth> and probably unintended
19:40:48  <TomyLobo> "unintended feature" is such a nice word for bug :)
19:41:31  <TomyLobo> I'm not on osx btw, so i cant tell what you mean
19:48:35  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
19:48:38  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
20:01:42  <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r27046 trunk/src/video/cocoa/ (2014-10-26 20:01:36 UTC)
20:01:43  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5812]: Don't require double-press from non-dead console hotkeys.
20:08:01  <andythenorth> \o/
20:17:01  *** Brumi [] has joined #openttd
20:28:19  *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:6019:3e35:6ff:be2e] has quit [Quit: .]
20:58:05  *** Brumi [] has quit []
21:07:47  <Eddi|zuHause> "Darth Alekseyevich Vader, a former electrician and official candidate in Ukraine's parliamentary elections, [was] denied his ability to vote after he refused to remove his mask."
21:11:58  <Quatroking> oh hey, the AI I'm playing against removed his train station after I bought exclusive transport rights to a city
21:12:02  <Quatroking> nice
21:12:43  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
21:12:47  <peter1138> Seems excessive.
21:12:49  <fjb> Moin
21:13:46  <Quatroking> I wonder if the fact that I boosted the industry's output by at least 400% and actually processed all the output
21:13:50  <Quatroking> has something to do with it
21:14:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt it
21:14:44  <Quatroking> yeah the AI probably just removed it because the station didn't receive goods for a long time
21:14:59  <Eddi|zuHause> no AI will have code like: "whoa, this guy is so good, i withdraw from his sphere of influence"
21:15:08  <planetmaker> moin fjb
21:15:14  <Quatroking> alpha as fuggggg
21:21:28  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
21:28:41  <peter1138> ...
21:31:21  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:35:04  <Quatroking> lookin' fine:
21:36:56  *** Celestar [] has joined #openttd
21:38:50  *** Celestar [] has quit []
21:44:07  <Quatroking> is there a reason why ottd never got the ability to rotate the map?
21:45:48  <NGC3982> Why do i have in my head that it used to be.
21:45:58  <Quatroking> NGC3982, RCT and RCT2 both support it
21:46:10  <NGC3982> Ah, that should be it.
21:46:16  <peter1138> Quatroking, cos it would need many more sprites drawn.
21:46:24  <peter1138> Which is pretty impossible for the original graphics.
21:46:55  <Quatroking> Couldn't you just, not rotate the sprites
21:47:17  <Quatroking> other than the roads and stations and rails
21:47:26  <peter1138> That would be rather glitchy.
21:47:50  <Quatroking> oh wait, not all industry is square-shaped is it
21:47:57  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
21:48:41  <peter1138> Actually the non-square random-parts industries are less of a problem.
21:49:29  <frosch123> i think the only game i remember supporting that type of rotation was sc2
21:49:34  <frosch123> and it was hell of confusing
21:49:52  <frosch123> *sc2k
21:50:26  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:51:21  <NGC3982> Hehe, i thought you talked about StarCraft 2.
21:51:46  <frosch123> nah, modern games have smooth rotation
21:52:15  <frosch123> but whenever i used that instant rotation in sc2k, i wouldn't know what i wanted to do
21:52:21  <frosch123> so effectively i never used it
21:52:33  <NGC3982> Does removing the planted land around farms affect the production?
21:52:44  <frosch123> nope
21:53:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, every time you rotate the map in sim city, you basically look at a completely new city
21:53:50  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
21:56:37  <planetmaker> yeah... most industries need new rotated sprites. And to reduce confusion, also all houses
21:56:58  <planetmaker> well. And airports and stations
21:57:28  <Rubidium> the default stations are fairly okay rotation wise ;)
21:57:31  <frosch123> yes, but even it would be done, i don't think the result would turn out that nice, or even useful
21:57:46  <Rubidium> except, obviously, the stations for aircraft
21:58:07  <frosch123> argueably i never played rct
21:58:27  <frosch123> but all other isometric games either cannot rotate, or it was so confusing that i did not use it
21:58:58  <planetmaker> I've no clue... I don't remember any such game :)
21:59:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even remember if aoe had rotation
21:59:41  <frosch123> i am quite sure aoe2 didn't
22:00:09  <Eddi|zuHause> but definitely the zoo-tycoon type games did
22:01:01  <NGC3982> Nope, it doesn't.
22:01:03  <NGC3982> Didn't.
22:02:19  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, sc2k had some "fake" rotation where the sprites were just flipped
22:03:53  <planetmaker> g'night
22:06:15  *** Kurimus [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:06:24  <frosch123> night
22:06:27  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
22:06:36  *** Kurimus [] has joined #openttd
22:11:04  <Wolf01> 'night
22:11:09  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:15:33  *** Stimrol [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:17:53  *** DDR [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:18:14  *** DDR [] has joined #openttd
22:19:03  *** liq3 [] has joined #openttd
22:21:02  *** Stimrol [] has joined #openttd
22:27:31  *** KwisSy [] has joined #openttd
22:29:41  *** Biolunar_ [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
22:41:36  *** Flygon [] has joined #openttd
22:47:41  *** Flygon_ [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
22:47:49  *** Flygon_ [] has joined #openttd
22:52:34  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
22:54:09  <supermop> hi
22:54:26  *** Flygon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:59:40  *** KwisSy [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
23:05:14  *** TomyLobo [] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...]
23:13:29  <Sacro> hah
23:13:37  <Sacro> when you click fast forward, the _ blinks dead fast
23:13:42  <argoneus> good night train friends
23:18:52  <Sacro> @seen Pikka
23:18:52  <DorpsGek> Sacro: Pikka was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 10 hours, 43 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <Pikka> it's pretty much six of one and half a dozen of the other.
23:18:55  <Sacro> mmmm
23:30:55  *** Pereba [~UserNick@] has joined #openttd
23:34:44  *** gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
23:38:29  *** DabuYu [DabuYu@] has joined #openttd
23:45:28  *** Flygon__ [] has joined #openttd
23:49:33  *** Flygon_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:50:12  *** Flygon_ [] has joined #openttd
23:53:32  *** Flygon__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk