Log for #openttd on 30th October 2014:
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09:10:02  <argoneus> good morning train friends
09:12:09  <planetmaker> moin moin
09:14:46  <V453000> moooin
09:15:15  <murr4y> choo choo
09:25:19  <supermop> so my book arrived from germany today
09:25:33  <V453000> yo supermop
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09:26:03  <V453000> supermop: this is what I do with yeti render -> sprites
09:26:26  <V453000> just after effects + photoshop magix
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09:29:12  <argoneus> V453000: looks like wizardry to me
09:29:18  <argoneus> especially all those cryptic settings in 3ds
09:29:20  <argoneus> "GI"
09:29:49  <V453000> settings. :)
09:32:22  <V453000> GI is global illumination btw
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09:32:58  <argoneus> oh
09:36:20  <supermop> cool
09:36:40  <supermop> anyway, there was not much in the book about the building i was interested in
09:37:15  <supermop> but i did find a gem in the advertisements:
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09:38:39  <V453000> xd
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09:44:55  <planetmaker> not wizardry. But professional graphics design, I call that. Not that I can do that as easily :)
09:45:52  <NGC3982> Will the autoreplace function make the game stop nag me about old vehicles?
09:45:53  <NGC3982> :|
09:46:08  <NGC3982> (Even when using a >1 month after-old wait time)
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09:48:24  <V453000> it isnt even that hard to do, just basic knowledge of the postproduction software is enough... it is very clean though :)
09:48:42  <argoneus> postproduction is photoshop and aftereffects?
09:48:58  <V453000> yes
09:49:08  <V453000> in this case yes
09:49:50  <argoneus> is aftereffects like sony vegas on steroids?
09:49:52  <argoneus> or are they different
09:50:29  <V453000> I wouldnt compare it to sony vegas, no, that is what Premiere is for
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09:51:54  <argoneus> is premiere better than vegas?
09:52:11  <V453000> I dont use either much
09:52:19  <V453000> cant compare
09:52:31  <argoneus> but so basically
09:52:37  <dihedral> o/
09:52:41  <argoneus> aftereffects is for adding things on the scenes
09:52:45  <argoneus> basically a photoshop for videos
09:52:52  <argoneus> and premiere/vegas is for putting clips together, adding music etc?
09:53:15  <V453000> kind of, yes
09:53:16  <V453000> hi dih
09:53:21  <argoneus> \o
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10:10:05  <argoneus> guys
10:10:08  <argoneus> imagine if there were trains in real life
10:12:22  <supermop> imagine if seinfeld was on tv today
10:26:55  <dihedral> imagine silly statements being made on irc
10:28:15  <planetmaker> now, don't be silly! ;)
10:28:41  <b_jonas> argoneus: yeah, and imagine if they were openttd's extra long trains, they could fit to single tile depots, self-intersect, and reverse in place!
10:28:51  <argoneus> and make 90 degree turns
10:29:07  <argoneus> what is self-intersect
10:29:15  <argoneus> and they can reverse in place kind of
10:29:19  <argoneus> many trains have two engines
10:29:26  <argoneus> just have the driver walk to the other side
10:29:29  <b_jonas> and imagine vacuum trains in real life, ones that not only have a high top speed, but also accelerate as quickly as the openttd ones
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10:32:08  <b_jonas> argoneus: self-intersect is when the start of a long train runs into a carriage near the end on a looping track. that doesn't caues a collision, unlike when it runs into another train
10:32:50  <b_jonas> argoneus: as for reverse, sure, trains and especially trams can do that with two engines, but openttd trains reverse the sequence and orientation of their carriages so one engine can appear on the other side of the train instantiously as long as the train is stopped
10:33:29  <argoneus> b_jonas: I haven't seen the first happen
10:33:34  <argoneus> so train can't collide with itself?
10:33:40  <argoneus> I could've sworn it crashes
10:33:43  <b_jonas> argoneus: you sort of have to make it happen, it doesn't happen on normal routes
10:34:13  <b_jonas> try to make a + crossing tile then connect two of its ends with three short railway tiles
10:34:22  <b_jonas> then get a train to run through that
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10:39:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it happened all the time with the stupid original pathfinder
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12:40:40  <supermop> later
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12:56:42  <andythenorth> yeah
12:56:42  <andythenorth> so
12:56:46  <andythenorth> I don’t get it
12:56:55  <andythenorth> where’s the code that rewards longer distances?
12:56:56  <andythenorth>
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12:57:15  <andythenorth> distance/2 is constant
12:57:31  <andythenorth> as compared to say ‘distance * distance’
12:57:50  <andythenorth> or ‘distance * 1.5 if distance < 32 else distance * 2’
12:58:18  <andythenorth> is there some bit shift or something in there that I don’t understand?
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13:16:01  <peter1138> moo
13:17:17  <argoneus> boo
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13:20:44  <frosch123> quak
13:24:23  <planetmaker> I sense a frosch lurking. And it's right :D Hi
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14:12:03  <andythenorth> still don’t get it
14:12:10  <andythenorth> what’s the premium that’s applied for going further?
14:12:17  <andythenorth> (cargo transport)
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14:16:46  <simozzz> Hello everyone! Haven't been here for a long time...
14:18:22  <frosch123> don't worry, you didn't miss anything important
14:18:48  <simozzz> I came to ask if anybody play xUSSRset here? Need some feedback about it.
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14:25:23  <simozzz> We've came to a question how to translate some early steam series like "Ы" or "Ь"...
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14:28:52  <simozzz> We also need graphics for FIRS cargoes
14:30:08  <simozzz> But it seems andy is away...
14:30:21  <andythenorth> it does?
14:30:43  <simozzz> Well.. not now)
14:36:18  <simozzz> Andy, do you have graphics of scrap metal, farm supplies(or it could be defined as fertilizers? ),  engineering supplies and others? Or could you tell me someone who have made them for other trainsets?
14:39:24  <andythenorth> V453000 made loads
14:39:28  <simozzz> Also wonder about all cargo density? It is needed to determine max capacity of some boxcars.
14:39:31  <andythenorth> farm supplies can be fertilisers
14:39:57  <andythenorth> cargos are documented here
14:40:02  <andythenorth> if you need more, it’s in the code
14:40:17  <andythenorth>
14:40:31  <andythenorth> e.g.
14:40:58  <andythenorth> engineering supplies, some people take from HEQS
14:41:15  <andythenorth>
14:41:19  <andythenorth> assuming GPL
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14:43:07  <simozzz> Thanks for links. ES from HEQS won't work since they are in different scale.
14:44:14  <simozzz> But that'll be awesome if you can redraw them...
14:44:54  <simozzz> or atleast include ones we will make later in HEQS.
14:46:46  <planetmaker> how should it work? Adjust the sprites depending on the train set(s) running concurrently to heqs?
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14:48:40  <argoneus> would it be possible to create a slave newgrf?
14:48:47  <argoneus> like, a bunch of black men dragging coal around
14:48:56  <argoneus> or egyptians
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14:51:05  <simozzz> Planetmaker, it'll be good to have same sprites both as road vehicles and cargo on platforms.
14:51:35  <planetmaker> simozzz, yes. Then you definitely should adjust to heqs.
14:51:53  <planetmaker> as its sprites are used already in several places
14:51:58  <planetmaker> and several newgrfs
14:52:36  <simozzz> and we already use some ISR graphics.
14:52:40  <andythenorth> argoneus: yes, you could create that
14:52:45  <andythenorth> go ahead
14:53:01  <andythenorth> slaves aren’t exclusively black or egyptian btw
14:53:13  <argoneus> egyptians didn't even have slaves
14:53:26  <argoneus> but slaves were typically african
14:53:33  <simozzz> but sprites that in HEQS already will be bigger than needed.
14:54:44  <andythenorth> argoneus: ‘typically’ ?
14:55:16  <V453000> simozzz: NUTS has all cargo spritez :P
14:55:17  <argoneus> when someone says slave
14:55:21  <argoneus> you don't imagine a blonde swede
14:55:25  <argoneus> or do you
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14:56:14  <andythenorth> I am sitting 3 floors up in the world’s biggest slave trading port in 1000 AD
14:56:27  <andythenorth> the street I am on used to have chained up slaves going along it daily
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14:58:23  <argoneus> where are you from again
14:58:38  <andythenorth> same place as TTD, oddly enough
14:58:44  <andythenorth> which is bizarre
14:58:47  <argoneus> where is that
14:58:49  <argoneus> ameriko?
14:58:54  <andythenorth> nah
14:58:56  <argoneus> britain?
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14:59:16  <argoneus> wait
14:59:19  <argoneus> biggest slave trading port 1000 AD
14:59:23  <argoneus> can't be amerika
14:59:25  * argoneus facepalms
14:59:26  <argoneus> britain then?
14:59:43  <andythenorth> good save
15:00:34  <andythenorth>
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15:02:24  <andythenorth>
15:02:57  <argoneus> heh
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15:03:21  <simozzz> have some problems with connection.
15:03:48  <andythenorth>
15:04:06  <simozzz> someone definitely should make newgrf with slaves cargo and industries related to itm
15:04:09  <andythenorth> origin of ‘Slave’ might be ‘Slav’
15:04:28  <andythenorth> simozzz: the problem is whether it’s seen as glorifying slavery or satirising
15:04:32  <Eddi|zuHause> or the other way around?
15:04:41  <argoneus> andythenorth: it could be neither
15:04:48  <andythenorth> it’s never neither with topics like that
15:05:03  <argoneus> I don't see anything wrong with it
15:05:11  <argoneus> slavery is outlawed today, but it was a part of the old times
15:05:14  <Eddi|zuHause> what was this "concentration camp tycoon" thingie again?
15:05:25  <andythenorth> due to game players being at least as thick as the next average person
15:05:32  <andythenorth> some would revel in slavery
15:05:38  <andythenorth> with racist overtones
15:05:42  <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: that's still fresh
15:05:53  <argoneus> people who went through that are still alive
15:05:57  <Eddi|zuHause> there was this picture a few years ago
15:05:59  <argoneus> are any slaves or their children alive?
15:06:02  <andythenorth> loads
15:06:12  <andythenorth> millions of people are thought to be in slavery
15:06:14  <argoneus> well
15:06:17  <argoneus> do they have access to ottd
15:06:30  <andythenorth> 21 million people at current estimate
15:06:48  <simozzz> hm... have anyone thought about 'carribean tycoon'? Where most valuable cargoes are gold, rum and slaves?))
15:06:49  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: what kind of sick argument is that?
15:07:05  <andythenorth> simozzz: similar to Heart of Darkness in FIRS
15:07:07  <andythenorth> except no slaves
15:07:10  <andythenorth> I left the slaves out
15:07:11  <andythenorth> considered it
15:07:26  <andythenorth> but decided colonial exploitation was far enough on the good taste scale
15:07:27  <planetmaker> yeti kinda is the satire comical side of it
15:07:28  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause:
15:07:38  <V453000> YETIS AINT NO SLAVES :D
15:07:46  <andythenorth> yetis ain’t no people either
15:07:50  <andythenorth> where are their rights?
15:07:54  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: ah yes, that one
15:08:17  <andythenorth> that’s not particularly offensive in any way
15:08:28  <andythenorth> any more than Wolfenstein, or concentration camp lego
15:08:32  <simozzz> Andy, kind of, but not in modern times but around 16th century.
15:09:25  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: remember that scene from star trek, where the klingon guy claims even the word "human rights" is racist?
15:09:39  <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: it's not a sick argument
15:09:44  <simozzz> lego concentration camp? never thought about buildint anything like that))
15:09:45  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause no, but I think I see the point
15:10:02  <andythenorth>
15:10:29  <argoneus> there's a difference between having generic slaves in a game and red swastikas with arbeit macht frei written everywhere
15:10:45  <andythenorth> what colour are generic slaves?
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15:11:16  <argoneus> all sorts of colours
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15:11:20  <argoneus> but you usually see them portrayed as black
15:11:58  <andythenorth> google images agrees with you
15:12:19  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: it really is... "we can make fun of the misery of other people, as long as they won't find out."
15:12:33  <argoneus> I didn't mean it to sound like that
15:12:45  <argoneus> there's nothing to be made fun of
15:13:00  <andythenorth> anyway nothing stops you making the grf
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15:13:13  <andythenorth> I think it has design challenges
15:13:19  <simozzz> Lets make these slaves pink!
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15:14:26  <simozzz> Than noone will be harmed or will have thoughts of these being racist.
15:14:26  <argoneus> more like moral challenges
15:14:31  <argoneus> I mean
15:14:37  <argoneus> people were freaking out over mr. popo from dragonball
15:14:45  <argoneus> so much that one of the dubs made him blue
15:14:54  <argoneus> that's just sad
15:14:56  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea who that is
15:15:01  <argoneus> google mr. popo
15:15:03  <argoneus> you'll see why
15:15:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i won't ever put the word "popo" into google :p
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15:15:31  <Eddi|zuHause> "popo" means "ass"...
15:15:37  <argoneus> well
15:15:38  <argoneus> your call
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15:16:20  <Eddi|zuHause> when they first aired star trek in germany, they left out the nazi episode
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15:16:31  <Eddi|zuHause> and in some other episodes they completely changed the storyline
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15:16:51  <argoneus> you also have GEMA, don't you
15:16:56  <argoneus> blocking everything
15:17:04  <Eddi|zuHause> that's something completely different
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15:17:32  <simozzz> Btw I thaik that coloured people's fight for polite correction is also racism.
15:17:50  <argoneus> maybe I am just biased by being czech
15:17:56  <planetmaker> "polite correction". That sounds like 1984
15:18:08  <argoneus> my country seems to be racist in general
15:18:15  <argoneus> not sure if V453000 would agree
15:18:55  <planetmaker> it's surprising how racist people are, even if they don't agree ;)
15:19:10  <argoneus> what do you mean
15:19:11  <simozzz> Why white can't call someone black or niger, while they can call us white or snowball?
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15:19:48  <argoneus> in my country
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15:19:56  <argoneus> if a caucasian beats up a gypsy, it's racism
15:20:02  <argoneus> if a group of gypsies beats up a caucasian, he provoked them
15:20:06  <argoneus> :(
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15:20:39  <frosch123> @kban argoneus 100000
15:20:40  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
15:20:40  *** argoneus was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [frosch123]
15:20:45  <frosch123> @kban simozzzz 100000
15:20:45  <DorpsGek> frosch123: Error: simozzzz is not in #openttd.
15:21:00  <Eddi|zuHause> that was a z too much
15:21:01  <frosch123> @kban simozzz 100000
15:21:03  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~oftc-webi@] by DorpsGek
15:21:03  *** simozzz was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [frosch123]
15:21:19  <V453000> I do and dont argoneus
15:21:29  <V453000> one thing is racism and one thing is hate for reasons
15:21:32  <planetmaker> he won't hear you for 1.25 days, V453000
15:21:43  <V453000> :0
15:22:00  <V453000> what did he do?
15:22:13  <planetmaker> spread racist propaganda in this channel, basically
15:22:18  <frosch123> this is no political channel
15:22:35  <V453000> well that is how it actually works in czech republic
15:22:39  <V453000> not much of a propaganda
15:22:41  <frosch123> the majority of groups is never suitable to talk about a minority
15:22:41  <V453000>  /enuf
15:22:51  <frosch123> be it races, genders or orientations
15:23:25  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, if you're a heterosexual white male, you can't discuss anything :p
15:23:47  <andythenorth> I am always being oppressed
15:23:49  <andythenorth> I find
15:24:10  <andythenorth> oh
15:24:22  * andythenorth is doing that ‘saying the opposite of truth’ thing
15:24:24  <andythenorth> again
15:24:36  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the core about all these "-isms" is asymmetry
15:24:39  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: XD
15:25:20  <Eddi|zuHause> and that gets extended by blaming all your problems on the other group
15:25:41  <Eddi|zuHause> and that can't ever result in anything positive happening
15:25:47  <andythenorth> also
15:25:54  <andythenorth> if we’re kbanning other people for talking politics
15:25:56  <andythenorth> we shouldn’t
15:26:08  <andythenorth> otherwise it’s just another abuse of power
15:26:30  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have to tolerate the intolerant.
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15:30:40  <Headbang> is there a minimum spec to run a openttd server? memory cpu wise?
15:31:38  <frosch123> depends on you map size
15:31:56  <frosch123> cpu limits map size and number of vehicles
15:32:16  <frosch123> upload bandwidth limits speed in which players can join
15:32:33  <frosch123> other stats are likely irrelevant
15:32:44  <Headbang> ok, ive got a old computer but it sure wasnt up to spec for minecraft :) but i have would think openttd is less memory hogging
15:33:11  <Headbang> the bandwith shouldnt be a problem, luxury of ftth
15:33:27  <frosch123> Headbang: <- you can find some busy savegames there
15:33:39  <frosch123> that will tell you how big maps and how many vehicles it can handle
15:33:55  <frosch123> i.e. whehter vehicles run smooth, or are lagging
15:34:13  <Headbang> ok nice link! thanks
15:35:26  <Headbang> off to work, tnx and goodby
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16:17:27  <peter1138> Hmm, a strange parcel arrived today.
16:24:48  <Eddi|zuHause> a wild parcel appeared.
16:27:49  <andythenorth> peter1138: there might be shenanigans with the OS install
16:27:51  <andythenorth> dunno
16:27:57  <andythenorth> fonso had to sort it out
16:28:09  <andythenorth> I thought we’d shipped them with an OS and dev tools, but maybe not
16:28:38  <peter1138> Should be fine, there's a USB key.
16:29:30  <andythenorth> yeah that didn’t work for fonso :|
16:29:40  <andythenorth> slight miscommunication between me and our office manager
16:29:54  <andythenorth> there should be a .iso which you can burn to DVD though
16:30:40  <peter1138> Hmm, well it boots. I don't have an Apple ID to get any further yet.
16:30:58  <andythenorth> ach you don’t need that, unless you want to download latest xcode
16:30:59  <andythenorth> afaik
16:31:03  <andythenorth> I used to ignore all that crap
16:31:09  <NGC3982> What's "Apple ID"?
16:31:10  <andythenorth> until I wanted to have icloud for baby photos
16:31:11  <peter1138> Wouldn't let me ignore it.
16:31:13  <andythenorth> oh
16:31:19  <peter1138> Hmm, I'll try again.
16:31:28  <andythenorth> sounds dumb, you can’t get an Apple ID without a web connection
16:31:37  <andythenorth> bit limiting if you don’t have a computer :P
16:31:58  <andythenorth> maybe they changed it
16:35:10  <peter1138> Ah, I get it, it wants to download OS X with it.
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16:45:53  <andythenorth> peter1138 oh maybe it’s trying to do internet restore
16:45:56  <andythenorth> the newer macs will do that
16:47:22  <peter1138> Seems like it.
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16:48:15  <andythenorth> I was sceptical at first
16:48:23  <andythenorth> less so now
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17:31:27  <V453000>
17:33:27  <Alberth> somewhat complicated reasoning :)
17:35:49  <planetmaker> similar to really ;)
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17:42:38  <V453000> oh yeah that one is good pm :D
17:44:32  <NGC3982> Hah, the title.
17:44:37  <simozzz> Sorry if I said something wrong, but it's hard for me to understand why someone can't call someone as he wants. ..
17:45:15  <simozzz> I'll try to avoid that topic in future.
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17:46:28  <NGC3982> The only decent thing said in that discussion was "1982".
17:46:38  * NGC3982 was hilighted.
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17:49:43  <Alberth> your nick may be off by 2K
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18:24:40  <frosch123> how do you call the items in a tuple?
18:24:45  <frosch123> members?
18:24:55  <frosch123> first member of a tuple?
18:24:57  <Alberth> tuple fields
18:24:58  <frosch123> first item in a tuple?
18:25:11  <frosch123> thanks :)
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18:30:45  <planetmaker> bah... openttd on a phone is about unplayable :P
18:35:50  <frosch123> did you just try? :p
18:45:42  <Rubidium_> planetmaker: then your phone isn't big enough and your fingers aren't small enough ;)
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19:01:21  * andythenorth ‘invents’ a GS
19:01:27  <andythenorth> Contract King
19:01:45  <andythenorth> deliver to one industry, make goal, get two more industries to deliver to
19:01:46  *** moffi [] has joined #openttd
19:01:52  <andythenorth> increasing linearly for each level unlocked
19:01:59  <andythenorth> basically Tetris, but with cargo goal
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19:12:15  <Alberth> contracts fail with cargo-dist :(
19:15:50  <frosch123> any gs with a specific industry/town target fails with cdist
19:15:58  <frosch123> but i think "fail" is the wrong term
19:16:17  <frosch123> those gs are more like an alternative to cdist
19:18:43  <andythenorth> contracts don’t fail with cdist
19:19:07  <andythenorth> sounds like the common misnomer that cdist sets destinations
19:19:30  <andythenorth> if cdist failed with contracts, that’s either player error or a bug to report to fonso :)
19:20:29  <andythenorth> the thing with cdist is that it demands a careful network
19:20:33  <andythenorth> or rather, many networks
19:22:14  * andythenorth is becoming a cdist convert
19:23:57  <fonsinchen> By using the cargodist script API you could check if your goals are realistic
19:24:46  <frosch123> i think andy is thinking about unserviced industries, so cdist wouldn't know them
19:26:00  <andythenorth> yes
19:26:11  <andythenorth> and as long as the player doesn’t bridge networks there is no problem
19:26:16  <andythenorth> cdist will just route ok
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19:27:35  <andythenorth> my current cdist game has zero problems
19:27:45  <andythenorth> lots of many->one primary cargo routes
19:28:25  <andythenorth> a big many->one->many secondary cargo route (it’s a SV game with target 5 industries)
19:28:38  <andythenorth> lots of one->some routes for supplies
19:28:38  <fonsinchen> You can progressively increase the cargo requirements to the industries. Once they're connected you can see what cargodist wants to do.
19:28:40  <simozzz> Andy, you are speaking about locomotion-like ttd for phones?
19:29:03  <andythenorth> I have no one->many routes
19:29:21  <andythenorth> one->many is a case where cdist will struggle to meet player expectations
19:30:03  <fonsinchen> That's the case where it actually does something, yes.
19:31:13  <andythenorth> hard for cdist to know what player / industry grf / GS requires
19:31:25  <andythenorth> more likely to fail than win I think
19:31:37  <andythenorth> but by avoiding that case, it works excellently
19:34:12  <andythenorth> apparently I have effect of distance at 100%
19:34:25  <andythenorth> surprised that is working for the supplies case
19:34:27  <andythenorth> but it is
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19:47:05  <Wolf01> hai
19:47:49  <andythenorth> lo
19:48:03  *** Core [] has joined #openttd
19:48:47  <Core> Hello, can someone please help me? I cannot connect to multiplayer games, they  time out after downloading a few KB/s
19:50:47  <Core>
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19:52:26  <Sylf> which game are you trying to connect to?  what kind of internet connection do you have?
19:52:29  <Wolf01> it could be 3 things, your connection is slow, the server upload is slow, the sum of the two
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19:53:30  <Core> I have ADSL+
19:53:44  <Core> it happens on all servers
19:55:05  <Wolf01> ADSL+ spans from >1Mbps to the future and beyond, it would be good to know the real speed
19:55:31  <Wolf01> could you try this?
19:55:36  <Core> My bandwidth is certainly more than 1-5 Kb/s
19:56:05  <Core> also this happens:
19:56:05  <Sylf>
19:56:10  <Sylf> let's see what you get
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19:57:15  <Wolf01> for example as now I have 73ms ping, 3.3Mbps down and 0.4Mbps up
19:58:22  <Core>
19:58:30  <Core> is there a server location i should try?
19:58:41  <Core> That was based on a sever close to me
19:58:44  <Core> server
19:59:56  <Wolf01> heh... the connection looks good, then it could be a problem of some other nature
20:00:12  <Core> All other multiplayer games work fine
20:00:16  <Core> it's strange
20:01:06  <Core> is there a central server for Openttd?
20:01:20  <Sylf> no
20:01:22  <Core> That I must go through before connect to the actual host?
20:01:41  <Sylf> well, there's the server that lists the available game hosts
20:01:49  <Sylf> and you already connected to that one
20:02:31  <Core> the download system works fine
20:02:42  <Sylf> that MaxNET server works just fine for me, so the server works good too
20:04:10  <Core> i'll try reinstall
20:04:27  <Core> you are 64bit version?
20:04:40  <Sylf> yes, 64bit windows
20:07:44  <Core> hmmm
20:08:59  <Core> just, wtf
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20:15:36  <Sylf> Is there any way to implement a square-root function in NML?
20:20:23  <frosch123> you can make a big switch :)
20:20:42  <Sylf> eh?
20:21:03  <Sylf> oh, chained switch statements...
20:21:06  <Sylf> >_<
20:22:30  <frosch123> it's likely better if you only do an approximation, instead of something exact
20:23:09  <Sylf> yeah.  I don't need precision.
20:32:00  <glx> Core: wifi ?
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20:41:56  <Core> glx no...
20:41:59  <Core> wait
20:43:40  <Core> i switched to wired and no difference :(
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21:28:23  <NGC3982> What was the name of that application that could connect my OpenTTD chat/rcon to IRC?
21:28:53  <frosch123> soap
21:29:18  <frosch123>
21:31:50  <NGC3982> Do i use that site in some way?
21:32:02  <NGC3982> Or am i to dumb to find documentation or files
21:32:36  <frosch123>
21:34:47  <planetmaker> frosch123, indeed I gave openttd on a phone a shot earlier today... not sure I'll try again
21:35:40  <planetmaker> 10" tablet might work
21:35:44  <frosch123> i assume it was not your phone
21:36:00  <planetmaker> oh it actually is.
21:36:04  <planetmaker> was just curious
21:36:20  <frosch123> aw, i thought you met some random guy, and said: hey, nice game, can i try it?
21:36:22  <planetmaker> my old broke, so I needed a replacement
21:36:33  <planetmaker> :D
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21:36:57  <frosch123> planetmaker: do you return the phone now?
21:37:11  <planetmaker> no :P
21:37:16  <frosch123> i mean, if it is new, you can surely return it, if it does not run ottd
21:37:31  <planetmaker> well, I still have 13 days to return it, yes
21:37:59  <frosch123> ah, i see, you are waiting for more gui patches
21:38:11  <planetmaker> but I don't want a 24" monitor with a GPRS device glued to the back :D
21:39:06  <frosch123> i am waiting for the device that covers the complete inner side of your forearm
21:39:19  <Rubidium_> iphone 10?
21:39:21  <planetmaker> frosch123, not sure GUI patches would actually cut it for me
21:39:23  <frosch123> would be weird aspect ratio though
21:39:59  <planetmaker> I tried to build some rail. And that is... not fun with a touch device. That needs probably exactly this polyline trackbuilding tool or similar
21:40:22  <planetmaker> with a preview option and 2nd confirmation after review
21:40:29  <planetmaker> thus it needs more than just some window layouts
21:41:12  <planetmaker> the toolbar on the android version actually is on the sides. Which is a good place to put it. And new map window is also adjusted in not a bad way
21:41:50  <frosch123> "new map window"? is that worldgen or smallmap?
21:41:55  <planetmaker> worldgen
21:42:01  <planetmaker> the climates are left of the rest
21:42:14  <planetmaker> it's a bit re-shuffled to better fit wide screens
21:43:08  <planetmaker> maybe I can create a screenshot...
21:43:29  <frosch123> nah, i can imagine
21:43:43  <Zuu> Hmm reading forum posts about something you got a patch for is dangerous :-)
21:43:54  <planetmaker> hehe, Zuu :)
21:44:05  <planetmaker> welcome back to the game ;)
21:44:13  <Zuu> At least if said patch is not complete :-)
21:45:44  <planetmaker> anyhow, I find the placement of stuff with a touch device the most tedious and inaccurate thing
21:45:50  <Zuu> I watched some CppCon presentations yesterday including keynote by Bjarne. Made me want to do some C++ again. Although OpenTTD is not really the landscape for newer standards. :-)
21:45:57  <planetmaker> That's what basically disillusioned me a bit
21:46:15  <andythenorth> I hate touch
21:46:22  <andythenorth> hate is maybe too strong
21:46:33  <andythenorth> touch is frustratingly non-tactile
21:46:33  <frosch123> <- btw.: current nml output for ogfx+rv
21:46:43  <frosch123> tomorrow i hope to get to register usage
21:47:29  <frosch123> all those id assignments actually happen quite late in the processing and are surprisingly independent
21:47:31  <planetmaker>  (@return_action_22) <-- what info does that carry?
21:47:53  <frosch123> that's unfinished, it should look like the thing for the spritesets
21:47:57  <planetmaker> it's info currently not exposed anywhere, directly from the ast?
21:48:16  <planetmaker> aye :)
21:48:30  <frosch123> i am unsure how many info to flood
21:48:43  <frosch123> currently i print all id types, of which at least 1 is used
21:48:59  <frosch123> but total number of spritesets and spritegroups does not look particulary useful
21:49:12  <frosch123> so i think i'll limit it to the things with limits
21:49:49  <Rubidium_> you could add levels of the "debug" information
21:50:07  <Rubidium_> e.g. -v for the limited things, -vv for the limited and unlimited things
21:50:17  <frosch123> currently there is a single "--quiet" option
21:50:24  <frosch123> which also silences warnings
21:50:40  <frosch123> one could add an "--verbose" option for more stats
21:51:07  <frosch123> but i rather skip info without use, and keep useful as default
21:55:49  <frosch123> planetmaker: also, is my comment in #6474 correct? if so, i have a patch for it :p
21:59:09  <planetmaker> If I only knew what I thought a year ago :)
21:59:40  <planetmaker> when I looked at it earlier briefly again I was more like "why the hell would a newgrf want to care?"
21:59:53  <planetmaker> but I sure someone explained to me one reason back then
22:00:14  <frosch123> the only usecase i know is to make different wagons available, which only differ in speed limit
22:00:30  <frosch123> you know, that 10 year old bug in dbset :p
22:02:33  <planetmaker> I remember, yes
22:02:46  <frosch123> <- also, one of the mysteries of nml :p
22:03:20  <frosch123> what is the reasoning to add things like "newtrains", but not "wagonspeedlimits"?
22:04:07  <frosch123> <- many of them are useless, but the nml selection looks rather random to me
22:06:57  <planetmaker> hehe. The reasoning is lost in the misty past
22:07:21  <planetmaker> I do remember that we discussed at that time which features and switches we want to expose in NML and which better not for BAD FEATURE reasons
22:08:08  <planetmaker> but I think time showed that BAD FEATURE is hard to avoid by these means... and there's often also good reasons for them being accessible
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22:24:39  *** Core [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:26:48  <peter1138> Hmmz
22:28:54  *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:39bf:4162:bdcb:477a] has quit [Quit: .]
22:29:51  <planetmaker> good night
22:29:54  <peter1138> nn
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22:36:57  <andythenorth> bye
22:36:58  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
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22:53:52  <Wolf01> 'night
22:53:57  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:00:24  *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
23:00:29  <NGC3982>
23:00:33  <NGC3982> How are these sites used?
23:00:51  <NGC3982> Am i to simply download each file one by one, or is this some form of magical terminal solution?
23:01:21  <frosch123> if there is no bundle, then you use mercurial
23:01:49  <frosch123> hg clone
23:01:51  <frosch123> for exampel
23:02:46  <frosch123> you get the url from the repository tab
23:04:11  <frosch123> oh, there is even a download button on the hg site
23:04:36  <frosch123> <- for example
23:04:37  <peter1138> Err, which key is del on a macbook? :S
23:06:23  <frosch123> try some modifier key with backspace?
23:06:35  <frosch123> i mean, they write "delete" on the backspace key
23:10:15  <peter1138> Ah, fn-backspace. Annoying.
23:10:43  <frosch123> you are not supposed to work with machine
23:11:14  <NGC3982> frosch123: Thanks.
23:11:55  <Zuu> fn-backspace - how is that supposed to work with an external keyboard? Or are you supposed to have a special mac keyboard?
23:12:20  <peter1138> Probably the del key works...
23:17:36  <Zuu> How does SL chunks work? Will failing to perform all reads in a Check_xxx method means that the file seek is off and thus corrupt further reading or can Check_xxx just load the inital stuff and skip the bottom stuff?
23:18:32  <frosch123> i think you either need to skip the whole chunk, or read it as a whole
23:19:19  <frosch123> but _date_check_desc for example ignores some things it is not interested in
23:20:01  <NGC3982> frosch123: Have you used supybot with soap yourself?
23:20:11  <frosch123> as a user :p
23:20:13  <frosch123> not as an admin
23:20:16  <NGC3982> I see.
23:20:38  <NGC3982> I'm reading the manual, but i can't seem to find the actual way to connect supybot with the running server.
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23:22:15  <Zuu> frosch123: _date_check_desc seems to do that by still declaring the size of the chunk and creating all Sl* instances.
23:22:30  <frosch123> NGC3982: you need to set an admin password ni openttd.cfg
23:22:36  <frosch123> and then also put that password into the soap config
23:22:50  <frosch123> Zuu: yes, it reads all, but does not store all
23:22:51  <Zuu> For checking a GS, it means I have to actually load the whole GS then as the GS loader internally loads stuff from the savegame.
23:23:21  <frosch123> i doubt that
23:23:28  <frosch123> i think the gs gets a string
23:23:37  <frosch123> you can read the string from the save, and then ignore it
23:23:41  <frosch123> no need to pass it to the gs
23:24:37  <Zuu> I mean the savegame contains savegame data of the GS in the same chunk as the meta info of the GS.
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23:25:47  <Zuu> Oh, now my program works when loading all GS data in Check :-)
23:26:12  <frosch123> you can load the whole _game_script thingie, you do not need to use the result
23:26:43  <frosch123> you can also define a _game_script_check, with some NULL maybe
23:26:55  <NGC3982> frosch123: Is soap bound to openttd.cfg? I use separate re-named config files for my dedicated server.
23:27:21  <frosch123> NGC3982: no idea, but ottd won't allow anyone to connect if there is no admin password
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23:28:35  <frosch123> NGC3982: from the docs:
23:28:41  <frosch123> config
23:28:47  <frosch123> config channel [#yourchan] plugins.Soap.<setting> <value>
23:28:54  <Zuu> I was missing Game::Load(_game_saveload_version) which will load more stuff from the save than just what SlObject loads.
23:29:15  <frosch123> so, config channel #yourchannel yourip
23:30:21  <frosch123> Zuu: are you sure you want to call the function?
23:30:37  <frosch123> i would expect that breaks the currently running gs when opening the load game window in game
23:31:11  <Zuu> I don't really want to call it, but not calling it means I get chuck size failed.
23:31:31  <frosch123> well, you need some dummy method, which just reads the data
23:32:34  <frosch123> ScriptInstance::LoadObjects but without the sq_xxx calls
23:33:02  <Zuu> You are right about that. I just was hoping to not have to duplicate too much stuff.
23:33:28  <Zuu> One way is a dry-run param though.
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23:33:41  <frosch123> oi, actually
23:33:51  <frosch123> there are vm != NULL checks in LoadObjects
23:34:06  <frosch123> ah, true, if there is no script, the data is already discarded
23:34:16  <frosch123> so, you can just use that functionality
23:35:04  <frosch123> so, you only need a stripped version of ScriptInstance::Load (10 LOC), but you can reuse LoadObjects
23:35:17  <Zuu> So maybe it just need a copy of ScriptInstance::Load that doesn't use the VM.
23:35:36  <frosch123> ScriptInstance::LoadEmpty <- he, that does exactly that
23:35:56  <Zuu> :-)
23:36:20  <frosch123> it's all there, one just has to find it :p
23:37:46  <Zuu> Its used to load MP games on clients if I understand the code correctly.
23:38:36  <frosch123> makes sense
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23:40:37  <Zuu> Works fine :-)
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23:56:06  <frosch123> night
23:56:09  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
23:58:24  *** Zuu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]

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