Log for #openttd on 14th November 2014:
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07:53:40  <V453000> hm I think my shit is exploding with 8/8 XD not confirmed yet
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08:05:19  <peter1138> What does that even mean?
08:17:00  <andythenorth> whatever it is, I wouldn’t get too close
08:17:12  <andythenorth> these might be handy
08:32:38  <V453000> peter1138: that my template wasnt ready for the | 140% stretching XD
08:35:40  <supermop> with 10 months to go on alcohol valley, building rough airfields high in the mountains at coffee plantations
08:36:14  <andythenorth> GS
08:36:19  <andythenorth> a lot more fun
08:36:23  <andythenorth> than making model train sets
08:36:48  <supermop> just to collect the discarded outer husks of coffee cherries and ferment them into an undoubtedly vile drink
08:36:57  <andythenorth> that is an offensive position
08:37:11  <andythenorth> I would have to kban you if I had the power
08:37:20  <andythenorth> coffee = life
08:37:21  <supermop> haha
08:37:26  <supermop> it is
08:37:43  <supermop> but i cant make alcohol from the coffee itself
08:37:55  <supermop> but the plantations produce fruit
08:38:25  <V453000> am adding your fucking JAVA to all wagon sprites andythenorth
08:38:30  <V453000> you remain silent. :D
08:38:44  <supermop> which i am guessing is the outer part of the coffee cherry that is usually discarded at the washing station
08:40:29  <supermop> unless you posit some other source of fruit coming from these coffee farms
08:40:40  <andythenorth> oh they grow fruit under the coffee bushes
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08:42:22  <andythenorth> or vice versa
08:42:51  <andythenorth> coffee traditionally shade-grown; the shade comes from fruit trees, bananas etc
08:43:44  <andythenorth> realisms to the max
08:43:59  <andythenorth> even animated rivets
08:44:13  <supermop> rough airfield in the mountains realistic
08:44:43  <supermop> serving it with 737s  maybe not as much
08:44:46  <andythenorth> hope you’re using AV9 :P
08:45:07  <supermop> 8
08:45:08  <supermop> 9?
08:45:40  <andythenorth> improved version
08:45:45  <andythenorth> much less stuff
08:46:55  * andythenorth bbl
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08:48:04  <planetmaker> av8.9 ;)
08:50:06  <planetmaker> hm, vice versa :P
08:50:09  <planetmaker> av9.8
09:00:52  <supermop> ooops just built cable stayed bridge with tower in the approach to a runway
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09:16:28  <argoneus> ayy
09:21:38  <V453000> I think I foudn a way aroudn my errors (:
09:21:42  <V453000> HAX and more HAX
09:21:51  <V453000> Creating NewGRFs 101
09:22:21  <V453000> 202 will be about fixing your old and scary HAX
09:22:39  <V453000> complete guide to newgrfs
09:23:14  <peter1138> :D
09:24:27  <V453000> though at the same time there might actually not be a more sophisticated solution :d
09:25:31  <peter1138>
09:26:20  <V453000> the problem was that when rotating, the stretching made the | view too low inthe 128x128 sprite, so it overlapped to the neighbouring sprite ... but logically if it rotates around its center, only other solution would be to move the cutting mask - which would be dirty and not really work since it is rotation inconsistent
09:26:29  <V453000> so I just moved the model at one rotation XD
09:26:46  <V453000> :d
09:27:23  <V453000> the comments are even better than the picture peter1138  :D
09:30:30  <peter1138> Yeah
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09:59:33  <Alberth> mornink
09:59:51  <V453000> hy
10:00:26  <planetmaker> moinoinoin
10:01:51  <peter1138> Hmm, new MagSafe power adapters are kinda expensive :S
10:03:49  <V453000> hy pm :)
10:04:49  <Alberth> tried the MagUnsafe ones ?
10:05:06  <argoneus> what about the MagVolatile
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10:05:24  <Alberth> (I just love how all commercialism takes inherently positive words to name their products)
10:06:16  <planetmaker> peter1138, did bug andy for one of his ancient machines or got one yourself as new gadget?
10:06:46  <peter1138> Yeah, it's the ancient one.
10:07:15  <planetmaker> so... can we expect OSX fixes now? :D
10:07:43  <peter1138> Nope, cos it didn't come with a working version of OSX
10:07:58  <peter1138> Still waiting on that :D
10:08:39  <peter1138> In the meantime, Wheezy runs nicely on it. But I just noticed the power adapter is only 45W, not 60W as it should be.
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10:19:14  <planetmaker> he
10:19:46  <supermop> failed to get gold
10:20:40  <argoneus> supermop: gold where?
10:20:57  <supermop> silicon valley gamescript
10:21:04  <argoneus> o
10:21:38  <planetmaker> not always easy. Though it depends on the parameters you initially set, right?
10:24:50  <V453000> do such scripts work with e.g. yeti?
10:24:55  <V453000> or are bound to a newgrf?
10:25:05  <V453000>  /able to choose only some cargoes
10:26:06  <Alberth> should work afaik
10:27:11  <Alberth> although yeti may defeat the cargo analysis algorithm of the script :p
10:28:33  <planetmaker> I would believe SV works with every industry newgrf (or without). It's quite generic
10:29:16  <planetmaker> It analyses cargo whether they're primary or secondary, I think (coming from extractive/organic industries)
10:29:47  <V453000> I think yeti is 100% extractive, worker yard might be processing
10:29:48  <V453000> unsure
10:29:58  <planetmaker> farms should be pretty organic, no?
10:30:03  <V453000> certainly no black holes, extractive or organic
10:30:12  <argoneus> is yeti environment friendly
10:30:12  <V453000> eh
10:30:15  <V453000> hm :D
10:31:09  <V453000> yeah all extractive
10:31:13  <V453000> worker yard processing
10:31:34  <V453000> exchange port processing
10:31:37  <planetmaker> but you're right, no organic
10:32:03  <planetmaker> V453000, you should consider to give the 'organic' industries that flag (instead of extractive).
10:32:12  <V453000> why
10:32:35  <planetmaker> It has little influence on how the industry works itself. But it makes sense for at least two things:
10:32:40  <planetmaker> * station names in the vicinity
10:33:00  <planetmaker> * disasters which can occur there (a mine shaft collapsing due to a mad cow running around?!)
10:33:13  <planetmaker> * scripts / AI knowledge about what the industries represent
10:33:20  <planetmaker> at least two :P
10:33:26  <V453000> XD disasters
10:33:36  <planetmaker> yes, they're linked to that
10:33:44  <V453000> Sylf did some station name hax
10:33:51  <V453000> but hm can consider
10:34:10  <V453000> just afraid of it causing unexpected wtf at unexpected places
10:34:44  <V453000> regardless, determining any thing from organic/not organic sounds like a bad feature if the industry works the same way :P
10:36:01  <V453000> (: aaand my template seems to work again
10:36:05  <V453000> HAX work
10:43:13  <Alberth> \o/
10:46:31  <john_maal> Good morning guys, i am new on this and i do not want to disturb, but there is someone who speak spanish or italian
10:47:19  <john_maal> ?
10:47:47  <argoneus> john_maal: I barely speak spanish and I know an italian guy who is on irc right now
10:47:50  <argoneus> what do you need?
10:49:03  <john_maal> i am having little problems to understand the wiki, i am reading it but well i only see a list of problems and tasks, i want to be developer, but
10:49:53  <argoneus> isnt the wiki in english?
10:50:01  <john_maal> it is a little dificult because i can not see tutorials about for example, library used or well i can not see the .cpp files :)
10:50:43  <john_maal> yes yes ofcorse, but my motherlanguage is the spanish :), i speak a little english as you can see... i am not using right now the google translator, but my english is nor very very good so
10:50:50  <argoneus> oh
10:51:00  <argoneus> I don't speak spanish on a developer level :<
10:51:41  <john_maal> jeje there is no problem, i would like to work with you in english, it is fine because i can practice and improve it to the same time i practice my programming in C++
10:53:30  <john_maal> i know the object oriented orpgramming in C++, and i have 3 years practicin in C++, but i am a novice working in serious and big projects like it you do, only personal projects and university works... so i am a little lost about that i can do to begin
10:53:48  <argoneus> (I'm not a developer, I'm probably worse than you)
10:54:57  <john_maal> :) maybe not, because the experience is important, and i have not work experience
10:55:49  <b_jonas> john_maal: yeah, working together in big projects is something you can only learn in practice
10:57:14  <john_maal> yes i understand, but i am a student of informatic in the university, so i am a newbye :/... but i love TTD (from 1998... i was 8 years old in that time :D) and maybe it can be a great oportunity for me to practice
10:58:24  <john_maal> i would like to dirty my hands with codes... maybe i would begin working without GUI codes
11:03:20  <Alberth> hi hi
11:03:30  <john_maal> hi
11:05:02  <Alberth> any area you want to be coding in, in particular?
11:06:03  <john_maal> well not really, but maybe for the first time i think to work without GUI, because i guess it can be a little dificult the first time
11:06:35  <Alberth> what do you mean "without GUI"?
11:06:42  <Alberth> you mean without IDE ?
11:07:07  <john_maal> do not want to work with Graphyc interface... at least by the moment, because i am only learning
11:07:32  <Alberth> I have been learning since 2007, and am not done yet :)
11:08:00  <peter1138> Current GUI is quite complex, but also simpler than the old stuff.
11:09:56  <john_maal> jeje well but i would like to begin for example... changing the capacity size for the vehicles or changing the maximun speed... i guess ca do it only changing values in a source file and it is not very complicated
11:10:07  <john_maal> inly to learn and familiarize with the codes
11:10:21  <Alberth> ah, wrong department then :)
11:10:28  <Alberth> you know about NewGRFs ?
11:10:53  <john_maal> i am not sure
11:10:57  <john_maal> maybe not
11:11:09  <Alberth> NewGRFs have a lot of possibilities, including defining new vehicles, changing old ones, etc
11:11:32  <Alberth> it can also replace houses, industries, landscape, almost anything
11:11:35  <Eddi|zuHause> NewGRF is sort of a plugin system, which allows to modify parts of the gameplay without modifying the program itself
11:12:13  <Alberth> in short, NewGRFs are used to set vehicle speed, capacity, etc etc
11:12:33  <john_maal> but it is still graphics work or not?
11:12:36  <Alberth> it's not coded in the core program, except for the base set vehicles.
11:12:48  <Eddi|zuHause> GRFs don't have to include graphics
11:13:05  <Alberth> NewGRFs can also have graphics, but not always
11:13:09  <Eddi|zuHause> (even though the name suggests that)
11:13:20  <john_maal> it this right? :
11:13:32  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
11:14:14  <Alberth>   <-- NML is a compiler to make NewGRFs, browse its manual for a while to get an idea what you can do with it
11:14:29  <john_maal> aaahhh ok i maybe understand, the game have a core and the changes in the game are writed in NewGRF files right?
11:14:56  <Alberth> yes (I think I understand you)
11:15:01  <john_maal> so the cre do work thoes files
11:15:52  <Alberth> OpenTTD loads the NewGRFs, and carries out its instructions
11:16:00  <john_maal> jeje yes i did read a similar think with a game called "simutrans" maybe the system is similar
11:17:10  <Alberth> I don't know what you can do in simutrans, in particular, can you eg add new industries, etc?
11:17:23  <Alberth> but the idea is quite similar, probably
11:18:19  <john_maal> no no, i mean, i did read in simutrans there is a graphyc package to make work the game, so you must download the core of the game and a graphic package
11:18:48  <Alberth> ah, we have such a package too, it's called a 'baseset'
11:18:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it probably differs a lot in the details
11:19:06  <john_maal> mmhh but it is not the NewGRFs?
11:19:31  <Alberth> NewGRFs are much more invasive, they can redefine how parts of the game work
11:19:34  <john_maal> so baseset and NewGRFs is not the same thig?
11:19:40  <john_maal> ok i understand
11:19:47  <Eddi|zuHause> there is the game (program), a base set, and (optional) NewGRFs
11:20:47  <Alberth> ie OpenGFX or zBase that you downloaded is a baseset, it has the graphics that are standard available
11:21:14  <Alberth> The OpenTTD program is the engine making it all tick and move
11:21:36  <Alberth> NewGRFs are extensions, with new vehicles, new industries, new aircraft, etc etc
11:21:40  <planetmaker> V453000, re industry types: I think the attribution of extractive/organic/processing is pretty un-intrusive. It has a bit influence, namely on how production changes. But only so, if you don#t define your own mechanics anyway. Other than that it only has positive influence on inter-operaability of the NewGRF with vehicles / AI /GS
11:23:18  <planetmaker> <Eddi|zuHause> (even though the name suggests that) <-- no, no, NewGRF = NEW Game Resource File ;)
11:23:36  <Alberth> :O  really?  :)
11:23:47  <Alberth> you learn something new every day :)
11:23:47  <john_maal> so it is not New Graphics Resource File? :P
11:23:53  <planetmaker> initially surely not. But it makes sense to use this as the acronym's meaning, no?
11:24:01  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you can keep your bogus backronyms for yourself.
11:24:07  <planetmaker> pff! :P
11:24:24  <planetmaker> I mean... several w/o any single real sprite = graphics there
11:24:39  <planetmaker> so what's the point of calling them graphics files while they define the behaviour of stuff?
11:24:55  <Alberth> lots, actually, all those town name grfs :)
11:25:07  <Eddi|zuHause> the point is that there is no point at all.
11:25:09  <planetmaker> town names, snow line, costs, modification of vehicle stats
11:25:31  <planetmaker> I could make most of OpenGFX+Industries without a single graphics
11:25:54  <Alberth> You missed an entire climate :p
11:26:12  <planetmaker> yes :(
11:26:16  <Eddi|zuHause> the point was, that "GRF" (without any expansion in mind) still *suggests* it has something to do with graphics
11:26:37  <V453000> planetmaker: hm :), so if we define everything by produce_256 cb, making things extractive/organic/processing should not have any downsides
11:26:38  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, and I dispute that it suggests that
11:26:52  <planetmaker> V453000, I *believe* that, yes
11:26:53  <V453000> it does pm
11:26:54  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: it makes graphics move? :)
11:27:04  <V453000> GRF = graphipcal, purely intuitively it just does that
11:27:05  <argoneus> when i first tsarted playing
11:27:10  <argoneus> I thought newgrfs were tilesets etc
11:27:14  <argoneus> like for dwarf fortress
11:27:30  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: maybe you have a different opinion of what "suggest" means...
11:27:31  <planetmaker> they are that. Among many other things
11:27:46  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: this is not about what they actually are.
11:27:51  <john_maal> well guys i do not want to disturb more, i'll read the wiki of the NewGRF and and see what can i do and i'll ask again if i have some dificult questione :P... thank you very much by the help you gave to me :)
11:27:58  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, GFX suggests graphics. GRF only in our community
11:28:12  <planetmaker> john_maal, do not worry, you sure don't disturb
11:28:20  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: this is about what a person without any context is likely to think when he reads "GRF" for the first time.
11:28:46  <planetmaker> I think you're biased there Eddi|zuHause :)
11:28:57  <john_maal> yes i distrub with my shameful english xD...
11:29:14  <planetmaker> john_maal, I think none of the people you talked to here is a native English speaker
11:29:16  <Alberth> john_maal: sometimes you have a big discussion going off just like that, it's quite normal :)
11:29:23  <planetmaker> actually not true. But nearly none
11:29:51  <argoneus> are indians considered native english speakers
11:30:00  <argoneus> if they speak english
11:30:07  <planetmaker> your English is much better of many English youngsters which come here and assume that everyone understands their l337 sp34k
11:30:21  <argoneus> planetmaker: I haven't seen anyone use 1337 sp33k here before ;o
11:30:23  <planetmaker> any my grammar sucks
11:30:34  <planetmaker> argoneus, for good reason.
11:30:41  <planetmaker> bah... more tea
11:30:46  <Alberth> john_maal: I think you can express yourself good enough, that's what matters
11:31:04  <john_maal> :) thank you very much
11:31:17  <Alberth> argoneus: because only 1337 weirdos speak that?
11:31:34  <V453000> 666 openttd swag #checkoutmyNewGRFs #yolo
11:31:45  <V453000> #numbersinnickname
11:31:50  <planetmaker> ;)
11:32:00  <argoneus> #sorryimnotsorry
11:32:39  <argoneus> #junctionnojams720mlg
11:33:34  <V453000> XD
11:33:47  <Jinassi> you forgot to add noscope
11:33:57  <planetmaker> john_maal, and while you now may have gotten the impression that much can be done outside C/C++ in OpenTTD: yes, that's true, especially for adding new graphics or changing how game contents work, there's a LOT which needs / can be done in OpenTTD core itself
11:33:58  <V453000> #checkmyshitontwitch
11:34:08  <argoneus> #blocksignalnoscope
11:34:13  <V453000> XD
11:34:22  <V453000> perfect
11:34:41  <planetmaker> Like the things on the wiki page. but also many more things, of course. As said on forums: the wiki todo is only an incomplete list of things which can be done
11:35:18  <planetmaker> you could for instance also add water depth to the game
11:35:43  <planetmaker> which then in turn could influence ship speeds (which would change / amend some parts of how NewGRFs can interact with it)
11:36:14  <planetmaker> or one could try to add a font selection to our settings
11:36:39  <planetmaker> (there once was a patch. But it needs revisiting. And looking how to get it working on at least linux and windows, better also osx)
11:37:28  <planetmaker> or have a look at our issue tracker. There surely are some feature requests and especially bugs which want to be treated
11:37:48  <planetmaker>
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11:46:13  <john_maal> sorry, my connection was closse
11:46:15  <Eddi|zuHause> <argoneus> are indians considered native english speakers <-- i would define "native" as "the language you were using at home when you were a child"
11:46:57  <Alberth> john_maal: it happens all the time, nothing to worry about, except you may loose some conversation
11:47:24  <john_maal> but in this moment, in indian the children are learning english like first language, i have some indian firneds here in my university and they say it
11:47:25  <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: yeah but
11:47:28  <argoneus> they are "native" to america
11:47:31  <Eddi|zuHause> for missed conversations check
11:47:34  <argoneus> it was witty humor :(
11:47:57  <Eddi|zuHause> indians are native to india. duh!
11:48:01  <john_maal> ahh i didn't know it, thank you :)
11:48:16  <argoneus> john_maal: you can also rent a VPS and run irssi on it
11:48:20  <argoneus> it's cheap
11:48:31  <argoneus> I think it's what most people here do?
11:48:37  <argoneus> (at least I do)
11:48:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt that's "most"
11:58:27  <john_maal> from the first time i did reach to build a factory in the game i did ask to myself... why i can not get a profit by this factory? yes i have the transport profit, but not by the production
11:59:55  <argoneus> because technically the factory is not yours
12:00:01  <argoneus> you only helped fund it
12:00:07  <argoneus> I guess
12:00:15  <john_maal> ahh really? but it is too expensive :P
12:01:44  <argoneus> just pretend everything is nationalized
12:02:09  <peter1138> Hmm, I don't think I ever funded an industry :p
12:03:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i did, but not very often
12:03:32  <john_maal> mmmhhh everythin is nationalized? damn just in my country... dictatorship maybe? xD
12:03:55  <peter1138> Socialist.
12:03:59  <Eddi|zuHause> the game is a bit unclear about this
12:05:39  <john_maal> maybe it would be changed by a patch? maybe a new GRF?
12:05:56  <john_maal> or it is a little more complicated?
12:06:16  <peter1138> Changed to do what?
12:07:15  <john_maal> maybe to got a profit by the funded industries
12:07:15  <V453000> transport company owning industries
12:07:16  <V453000> gg
12:07:27  <Eddi|zuHause> economical simulations like that can be done by game script
12:07:59  <Eddi|zuHause> but you have to completely invent the simulation
12:08:17  <john_maal> or maybe create a little new actions system... buy actions and bounds from the industries
12:09:13  <argoneus> i wish someone fixed road vehicles
12:09:17  <argoneus> if the timing is just right
12:09:26  <argoneus> a road vehicle will enter a railroad when a train is coming
12:09:31  <argoneus> and then the vehicle will stop because train = stop
12:09:36  <argoneus> in the middle of the fukkin railroad.
12:09:48  <Eddi|zuHause> *hust*
12:10:28  <john_maal> xD suicide driver and conscious machinist :P
12:10:29  <V453000> in many cases it would also help if players started caring about solving the situation by building better instead of having the game fix it for them :P
12:11:07  <argoneus> well
12:11:10  <argoneus> the only solution is
12:11:12  <argoneus> to never cross railroad with road
12:11:18  <argoneus> so you need a bridge or tunnel for either one
12:11:21  <argoneus> which slows things down
12:11:38  <argoneus> if the traffic is high, then a bridge is better anyway
12:11:38  <Eddi|zuHause>
12:11:43  <argoneus> but with one train once in a while
12:12:20  <argoneus> o-oh
12:13:04  <Eddi|zuHause> be careful when applying this to an existing savegame. vehicles may start up when they were stopped before, running into the train right ahead of them
12:13:38  <Eddi|zuHause> should otherwise be savegame compatible with trunk (back and forth)
12:15:20  <peter1138> argoneus, you know about reserved track blocking crossings?
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12:15:28  <V453000> :)
12:19:28  <planetmaker> argoneus, when you use path signals on the train tracks, vehicles won't enter the track when it's reserved
12:19:30  <planetmaker> quak
12:20:11  <argoneus> what about... block signals?
12:20:32  <peter1138> Block signals don't cause trains to reserve tracks, so no.
12:21:33  <argoneus> :(
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12:22:14  <V453000> argoneus clearly didnt get the path VS block signal arguments :P
12:22:49  <V453000> it isnt use ONLY path, or ONLY block signals, best is to use block as main, and path signals where their utility suits the situation
12:24:13  <argoneus> yes
12:24:19  <argoneus> but most people here argue that you should use path everywhere and block for ALU
12:24:52  <V453000> sure, which is limited and wrong
12:25:06  <planetmaker> yes. And there clearly is only one way to use signals and play and have fun :)
12:26:01  <argoneus> "wow, you are having fun the WRONG way!"
12:26:35  <john_maal> with the locomotives, the power CV is only for sloping ground?
12:28:27  <Eddi|zuHause> we could make level crossings trigger path reserving even with block signals
12:29:41  <Alberth> john_maal:  CV ?
12:30:10  <john_maal> i am not sure the name in english, maybe horsepower... it is the value at the side of the speed
12:30:19  <argoneus> hp
12:30:35  <argoneus> or tractive effort
12:30:38  <Eddi|zuHause> power mostly defines the achievable top speed, and how quickly that can be done
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12:31:01  <V453000> it means how much power your company consumes by constructing them
12:31:12  <V453000> reaching 1M power means you dominate the universe
12:31:22  <Eddi|zuHause> tractive effort defines how quickly a vehicle can get from full stop to a minimum forward speed
12:31:32  <Alberth> V: easy with NUTS vehicles   :)
12:31:41  <john_maal> no no, maybe is not that i mean, i'll check it when i'll arive to my house and i'll ask it again
12:31:49  <V453000> (:
12:32:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm afraid V's humor doesn't translate well :p
12:32:20  <john_maal> i play in spanish, and in spanish it is CV, i'll check it in english :P
12:32:49  <argoneus> V453000: knock knock
12:33:18  <Eddi|zuHause> are knock knock jokes a thing in czech?
12:33:33  <argoneus> yes, if you say them in english
12:34:03  <V453000> whos there motherfucker
12:34:11  <V453000> uncover yourself or I shoot you to bits
12:34:12  <argoneus> yeti
12:34:23  <V453000> good stuf
12:35:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never ever met a person who told a knock knock joke...
12:35:34  <argoneus> me neither
12:35:38  <argoneus> because they're either dark or bad
12:35:58  <argoneus> or both
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12:40:04  <Eddi|zuHause>
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12:58:08  <john_maal> i must leave guys... we'll see later :)
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12:58:10  <john_maal> have fun
12:58:24  <argoneus> you too
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14:05:51  <V453000> =D
14:05:55  <V453000> simple yet nice
14:06:01  <V453000> id say
14:06:24  <V453000> maybe slightly postapocalyptic XD
14:06:38  <Alberth> :)
14:06:52  <V453000> but the scratches and dirty parts make it look good in x1 etc
14:06:58  <V453000> seemingly not empty even with a basic shape
14:07:15  <planetmaker> V453000, I see there ugly tracks and ground tiles :P
14:07:17  <Alberth> yeah, it makes it look used
14:07:31  <planetmaker> (glass is half empty :P )
14:07:41  <V453000> xd
14:08:01  <V453000> I still think it kind of fits the ttd base set :P even with the amount of pixolz
14:08:07  <V453000>  /colours
14:08:52  <V453000> regardless, you know I might make a landscape set at some point :P in fact all I need to do is change a few textures and code the sprite replacements
14:08:57  <planetmaker> V453000, the offset of the vehicles should be such that they all move 1px up. They're not symmetric wrt tracks
14:09:08  <planetmaker> besides that I'm just teasing you ;)
14:09:38  <V453000> meknows, I almost made the landscape set, too, but it just is related to so many things like tunnels, roads and whatnot, that I postponed it :P
14:09:59  <V453000> offset point is probably valid :)
14:11:33  <V453000> but since this thing uses two templates (8/8 and 4/8), it should be moderately not-ass to get offsets right later
14:11:45  <V453000> unlike 8bpp NUTS which uses like 20 templates
14:13:07  <Alberth> time to ditch a few :p
14:13:22  <V453000> not really doable without massive effort
14:13:30  <V453000> would have to re-organize the sprites too in the pngs
14:13:31  <Alberth> :(
14:13:35  <V453000> way too likely to make mistakes
14:13:41  <V453000> without a real gain
14:13:46  <V453000> the 8bpp is probably fine as it is
14:13:47  <Alberth> tmwtlb
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14:13:57  <V453000> y
14:14:36  <V453000> right, so adding -4 to all yoffsets should just make it 4px higher
14:14:44  <V453000>  my logic is extremely strong today
14:16:38  <Alberth> frightening, adding negative numbers and still make sense of it :)
14:17:13  <V453000> esp if the offsets are values like -83, -102
14:17:14  <V453000> etc
14:17:50  <Alberth> you advanced to the master level now
14:18:03  <V453000> not so sure (:
14:18:26  <Alberth> no worries, there are more level above that :)
14:18:39  <Alberth> the guru level comes to mind
14:18:54  <V453000> whos that? :D
14:20:18  <Alberth> only people that think they aren't at master level yet?
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14:21:01  <V453000> bettah?
14:21:10  <V453000> :d
14:21:30  <Alberth> ie claiming you're at guru level disqualifies you from ever reaching that enlightened state :p
14:21:43  <V453000> valid point :P
14:21:56  <V453000> also, stare at my PERFECT offsets with -5 from previous :P
14:22:19  <V453000> might fiddle more later
14:22:32  <V453000> I am ready to lie to myself that it is good for now
14:22:50  <peter1138> No
14:22:53  <peter1138> Looks way too tall.
14:23:01  <peter1138> (Press ^B)
14:23:06  <V453000> is tall an offset? :D
14:23:49  <V453000> I have no fucking idea what are the bounding boxes trying to tell me :P
14:23:52  <V453000> I just align to tracks
14:24:04  <planetmaker> V453000, looking better aligned, yes
14:24:17  <peter1138> Align to the bounding boxes (except | or - views)
14:24:37  <V453000> I shit on bounding boxes if it looks bad on tracks XD
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14:25:14  <peter1138> That'll look bad in stations, under bridges, through tunnels...
14:25:19  <peter1138> Needs to be shorter.
14:26:23  <V453000> idk this looks kind of ok everywhere to me
14:27:08  <V453000> will leave it for now (:
14:29:22  <peter1138> Also if it appears to move when you reverse the train, the offsets are wrong.
14:29:57  <V453000> it doesnt do that because I have them synchronized in that way
14:30:52  <V453000> anyway, I hereby declare weekend :P
14:30:58  <peter1138> Ok, looking at original vehicles... yours is about twice as tall.
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14:31:48  <peter1138> Maybe not quite that much.
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14:52:27  <Eddi|zuHause>  <planetmaker> V453000, I see there ugly tracks and ground tiles :P <-- maglev tracks always look ugly.
14:53:07  <Eddi|zuHause> but... the wagons having the same colour and basic shape of the tracks makes them nearly invisible
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15:02:10  <argoneus> ayy
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16:12:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose they're asking "where is cat?" in paris.
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16:20:33  <Alberth> so far, I seem to have totally missed the meaning of that question
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16:38:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: there were apparently some large cat sightings/tracks near paris, and they suspected it was a tiger
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16:39:32  <Eddi|zuHause> they now seem to be sure that it's not a tiger, but they couldn't say what it actually is
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16:51:46  <Alberth> that's what andy has been asking all these months?
16:51:54  <Alberth> ok :)
16:53:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't reallly judge that :p
16:57:09  <frosch123> Alberth: certain alien life forms eat cats
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16:57:42  <frosch123> so, it's more like "where's dinner?"
16:58:15  <Alberth> oohh :D
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17:10:47  <peter1138> Heh, grfmaker
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17:24:41  <andythenorth>
17:24:45  <andythenorth> looks frigging awesome
17:24:50  * andythenorth needs a new game
17:38:31  <ginko> andythenorth
17:39:15  <ginko> andythenorth just see here for interesting and competent comments :)
17:45:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27062 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2014-11-14 17:45:15 UTC)
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> latin - 5 changes by Supercheese
17:57:27  <argoneus> grrrr
17:57:30  <argoneus> anyone here works with adobe premier?
17:57:31  <argoneus> e
18:01:09  <V453000> not much
18:01:29  <V453000> after effects can generally do everything I need it to do
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18:33:58  <argoneus> V453000: I'm trying to record commentary
18:34:06  <argoneus> is there a way to filter out TV in the background?
18:34:12  <argoneus> I know how to remove noise, e.g. fans etc
18:34:14  <argoneus> but TV stays no matter wat
18:34:15  <argoneus> what*
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19:01:42  <Alberth> disable sound of the tv :p
19:03:36  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
19:03:48  <Alberth> hihi
19:03:59  <Wolf01> hi hi
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19:06:49  <peter1138> Yes, turn off the TV.
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19:08:15  <andythenorth> cat.find(nearby)
19:08:42  <Alberth> true
19:11:02  <Wolf01> I just noticed that my cat is blind, maybe not totally, but this morning he couldn't walk in straight line and see the furniture until it was too late
19:12:25  <andythenorth> what parameters does cat.find take?
19:12:32  <andythenorth> and should it be find, and pass in the cat object?
19:12:35  <andythenorth> like hasattr?
19:12:59  <andythenorth> find(cat, **kwargs)
19:13:07  <andythenorth> hmm
19:13:14  <andythenorth> that would suggest you already have a cat object
19:13:19  <andythenorth> in which case don’t find it
19:13:22  <andythenorth> pointless
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19:13:39  <andythenorth> nearby.find(cats, **kwargs)
19:13:42  <andythenorth> returns an iterable
19:14:07  <andythenorth> dunno
19:15:04  <Alberth> that's why str.find  should not be tested for -1, and you should use "in" instead :)
19:17:41  <andythenorth> hmm
19:17:52  <andythenorth> but should I look for instances of the Cat class?
19:18:01  <andythenorth> or just look for something implementing ‘purr’?
19:18:32  <Alberth> in Python, the latter
19:19:14  <Alberth> or rather, you should know which object does that in advance
19:19:54  <Alberth> ie, you know what kind of data your routine gets
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19:20:47  <Alberth> the idea is that a user is much smarter than your code, so it should not try to second-guess user intentions
19:23:11  <andythenorth> what about a cat?
19:26:51  <argoneus> cats are only good for masochists who have no self respect
19:28:58  <Alberth> such a well-balanced opinion :p
19:31:25  <argoneus> cats aren't supposed to be domesticated, they still have their feral instincts at times :<
19:31:31  <argoneus> or rather, it's much harder to train a cat than a dog
19:31:36  <argoneus> not impossible
19:32:17  <Alberth> maybe you should stop trying to see a cat like a dog :)
19:33:03  <argoneus> might as well get a child or a girlfriend
19:33:14  <argoneus> since you can't cuddle a cat unless it wants to, which doesn't seem to be very often from what I hear
19:33:19  <argoneus> and pets are for comforting humans :<
19:35:59  <Alberth> really depends on the cat and yourself, I have seen cats jumping on your lap every opportunity they get, and cats preferring to sleep on their own. Neither of them will get near you unless they consider you trustworthy though
19:36:13  <argoneus> yeah
19:36:15  <Quatroking> yay industry
19:36:15  <argoneus> thing is
19:36:19  <argoneus> cats usually have their own brain
19:36:24  <argoneus> dogs usually reflect their owner's behaviour
19:36:25  <Quatroking> FIRS + ISR is so much fun
19:36:40  <Alberth> so trying to push a cat into doing something will have the opposite effect
19:36:56  <argoneus> I dunno
19:37:05  <argoneus> I view cats as cute pets that do cute things
19:37:08  <argoneus> and dogs as human companions
19:37:47  <Alberth> not entirely true, a dog has to be dominated or it will dominate you
19:38:05  <argoneus> well
19:38:08  <argoneus> heavily depends on the breed
19:38:14  <Alberth> at least that's what tv shows tell me about dogs with behaviour problems
19:38:14  <argoneus> a pitbull is harder to raise than a golden retriever
19:38:40  <argoneus> then again
19:38:49  <argoneus> take everything I say with a "a friend of mine said that..."
19:38:54  <argoneus> because I'm allergic to everything that has fur :)
19:39:19  <argoneus> but from what I see
19:39:28  <argoneus> my friends that have cats keep getting scratches on their body randomly
19:39:34  <argoneus> and my friends' dogs never bite anyone
19:39:36  <argoneus> shrug
19:39:58  <Alberth> probably fun play
19:40:24  <argoneus> I saw a video
19:40:28  <argoneus> where a girl was playing with her cat
19:40:30  <argoneus> and irritated her somehow
19:40:36  <argoneus> and the cat scratched her eyebulb open
19:40:39  <argoneus> and it started bleeding
19:40:40  <argoneus> scary stuff
19:40:55  <Alberth> sure, you have to respect a cat
19:41:06  <Alberth> but that also holds for a dog
19:41:30  <Alberth> both are still animals with scary powers if they get mad
19:41:37  <Alberth> or feel threatened
19:41:41  <argoneus> yeah
19:41:46  <argoneus> but dogs have a much longer history of being domesticated
19:41:52  <argoneus> so they are inherently easier to train
19:42:23  <argoneus> cats sometimes seem like tiger mind in a tiny body
19:42:24  <Alberth> you don't train a cat, beyond some basics
19:42:47  <Alberth> they are clean animals by themselves
19:42:57  <argoneus> yeah
19:42:59  <argoneus> you have to walk a dog etc
19:43:02  <argoneus> cat will just do whatever
19:43:04  <Alberth> they learn fast where the food is, and where to poo
19:43:51  <Alberth> that's about it, otherwise they find their own way and their favorite spots
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19:55:32  <andythenorth> I think we done with cats now
19:55:34  <andythenorth> what next?
20:07:11  <Alberth> waiting until 2001?
20:10:10  <peter1138> eyebulb:)
20:14:27  <NGC3982> I used to have a dog, and now i have cats.
20:14:37  <NGC3982> I could also say: I used to have a baby, and now i have nothing.
20:14:41  <NGC3982> The difference is immence.
20:15:36  <andythenorth> I used to have the ability to sleep and form coherent sentences
20:15:41  <andythenorth> and now I have a baby
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20:15:56  <andythenorth> none of that is strictly true actually
20:17:40  <NGC3982> :D.
20:19:36  <NGC3982> Sorry, i forget. Was there a way to sync the entire 'online content' content without the click fest?
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20:24:39  <Alberth> 'upgrade' button?
20:25:07  <Alberth> or 'select upgrades' or so
20:25:25  <NGC3982> That implies that i already have an initial copy of some version.
20:25:37  * NGC3982 had a click party instead.
20:25:55  <Alberth> generally you don't want all newgrfs
20:26:39  <NGC3982> I know. I'm just to lazy. :)
20:27:15  <Alberth> you're lazy, so you have a click fest?
20:31:58  <andythenorth> cognitively easier :p
20:32:12  <andythenorth> cognition is a high cost activity :P
20:32:18  <andythenorth> many of us aren’t fit enough to do it well
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20:33:25  <dreck> mm hi sylf?
20:33:35  <Alberth> gn
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20:33:53  <Sylf> yes?  are we in the right chan?
20:34:16  <dreck> apparently not, wasn't sure what to enter so I used the default the wiki gave
20:34:16  <Sylf> or did you mean to be in #openttdcoop.stable ?
20:34:33  <Sylf> you probably were looking at openttd's site, not coop's
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21:21:27  <NGC3982> When using Supybot with Soap, does the plugin correlate with the admin port, or the actual config file?
21:22:29  <NGC3982> I mean, can Soap find my OpenTTD game even if i use a <randomname>.cfg, as long as the admin port is correct?
21:23:25  <NGC3982> It did!
21:23:27  <NGC3982> \o.
21:26:00  <Taede> soap will connect to any server provided the adminport and password are identical to the ones in whatever .cfg file openttd uses
21:37:44  <Rubidium> andythenorth: cat is in Hilversum
21:38:12  <andythenorth> population 86,795
21:38:15  <andythenorth> but how many cats?
21:38:18  <andythenorth> or piano tuners?
21:40:28  <Rubidium> too many ;)
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21:53:07  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't find cat. cat finds you.
21:53:18  <Eddi|zuHause> and not only in soviet russia
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22:11:39  <andythenorth> night
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23:22:48  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:42:12  <FUZxxl> I made a transit map of a recent game:
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23:42:58  <FUZxxl> I believe the city name set for German should be expanded a little bit; city names feel quite repetitive
23:46:42  <Eddi|zuHause> try NewGRFs
23:46:56  <Eddi|zuHause> there are some for alternate german town name sets
23:47:22  <Eddi|zuHause> both real and fictional
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23:47:48  <FUZxxl> ok
23:49:01  <FUZxxl> oops.
23:49:06  <FUZxxl> the link should've been:
23:49:13  <FUZxxl>
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