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Majorly, I have to say 09:17:05 <planetmaker> do not intoduce such bullshit just for the sake of saving *one* vehicleID where you have thousands free 09:17:37 <V453000> there will be options probably 09:17:52 <V453000> but the attachment tends to be confusing just as well 09:17:58 <planetmaker> if you don't want it universally refittable, just don't make it so 09:18:36 <planetmaker> I mean... what's the point to allow a refit in order to just say "Àtsch, you can refit, but not use it!" 09:19:52 <planetmaker> not allowing attachment is much clearer than a no-feedback capacity or speed 09:20:24 <V453000> capacity can have feedback through vehicle sprites 09:20:39 <planetmaker> attachment hauls a big error message at the player 09:20:42 <V453000> remember the wtf sprites like MORE that mb had in db set? :P idk if they are still there 09:20:44 <planetmaker> nothing he needs to understand 09:20:51 <planetmaker> yes, I do. Big uglyness 09:21:05 <planetmaker> worst feature there is in that set, really 09:21:07 <V453000> about just as much as an error 09:21:36 <planetmaker> that's bullshit, total bullshit. If you don#t want it attached, that's what the attachment callback is for 09:21:37 <V453000> sure but controlling length of consist by it is something different :) 09:21:50 <planetmaker> and if you don't want to allow that refit, that's the refit callback used for 09:21:59 <planetmaker> don't allow everything and then cripple certain options 09:22:09 <planetmaker> that's HUGE bogus bullshit behaviour 09:22:56 <planetmaker> use the feedback to allow things which are meant to give the corresponding feedback 09:23:29 <V453000> I might just provide both options while at it, selectible by parameter 09:23:42 <planetmaker> *urgs* 09:23:47 <V453000> I can see why you think so but at the same time I think my solution is just fine 09:24:15 <planetmaker> that's actually like the features I totally dislike with ussr set. silent changes of stuff without feedback 09:24:36 <planetmaker> and don't tell me sprites change. That's not proper feedback 09:24:46 <V453000> it is 09:24:47 <planetmaker> you know them. But that's not immediately clear. 09:25:01 <planetmaker> it's bad, if you could say clearly instead "doesn't work" 09:25:02 <V453000> if sprites change to huge red text "SHIT IS HAPPENING", it is clear 09:25:10 <planetmaker> that's bullshit UI 09:25:23 <V453000> well the error disappears after a short while anyway? :P 09:25:35 <planetmaker> that's the point. Somewhen a player might notice. If at all 09:25:57 <planetmaker> just do not ignore the machanisms which are there to tell players. Use them 09:26:05 <planetmaker> Or they will totally be "wtrf? what's wrong" 09:26:44 <planetmaker> you cannot do better with sprites than the UI which is meant to tell players 09:26:48 <V453000> purchase menu text in red explaisn whats wrong quite quickly too 09:27:03 <planetmaker> no. People don't read 09:27:09 <V453000> 2bad 09:27:14 <V453000> then they dont need error message :D 09:27:14 <planetmaker> or: "but I can attach it, why doesn't it work?" 09:27:23 <planetmaker> yes, they do. Because then it simply doesn't work 09:27:28 <V453000> they can see they cant "really" attach it 09:27:35 <planetmaker> but your approach makes it appear to work and screw them at the same time 09:27:38 <V453000> and if pax cargo is default they only notice after refitting to freight 09:27:51 <planetmaker> and don't call it universal wagon, if it isn't 09:28:00 <V453000> it will be ultimate wagon now (: 09:31:33 <V453000> I will still consider things, there will be a lot of options to choose from, too, but I still see my solution as okay 09:32:00 <V453000> so far from talking to players I have seen 99% of reports about "why is train not autoreplacing" 09:32:30 <V453000> obviously because there is wrong wagon 09:32:57 <V453000> admittedly they probably dont autoreplace between express and cargo wagons 09:33:28 <V453000> but that is why I will provide all options, and at some point choose what should be the default 09:33:38 *** Mek_ [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd 09:37:58 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:39:30 *** berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 09:40:52 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220149.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:29 <planetmaker> V453000, for that reason: don't make it articulated vehicles. Just make it engines and wagons all separately. And if you then want to adopt looks of wagons to engine, use a switch which queries the engineID and draw different wagon graphics 09:49:40 <planetmaker> but if they are just separate vehicles, autoreplace is no problem at all 09:50:36 <V453000> it is engines and wagons, but wagons are articulated 09:50:40 <V453000> the 2x 4/8 ones 09:51:22 <V453000> but the ultimate wagon must be able to appear both as 4/8 and 8/8, meaning it has to be 1+2+2+2+1 articulated vehicle =D 09:52:28 <planetmaker> uh, why? 09:52:40 <planetmaker> you can simply use one wagon with length 4 or 8? 09:52:59 <V453000> not if I cant change amount of articulated vehicles in consist 09:53:07 <V453000> (keeping total length at 8/8 is key) 09:53:21 <planetmaker> no, but why would you need more than one vehicle for that wagon? 09:53:26 <planetmaker> ah, ok 09:53:36 <V453000> autoreplace again :> 09:54:06 <planetmaker> why must it appear as 4/8 and 8/8? 09:54:20 <planetmaker> can't it always be 8/8? And just look like 2* 4/8? 09:54:23 <planetmaker> as one vehicle? 09:55:04 <V453000> doesnt turn in half in curves :/ 09:55:27 <V453000> and that already breaks curve speeds, might as well break them completely with 1+2+2+2+1 09:55:44 <planetmaker> ok 09:56:17 <planetmaker> anyway, that's the same vehicleID in all cases. So how does that interfere with autoreplace? 09:56:41 <planetmaker> (though why doesn't 1+6+1 or 3+2+3 work? 09:56:59 <planetmaker> (depending on 2* 4/8 or 1*8/8) 09:57:05 <V453000> if I write it as x1+Y2+Z2+Y2+x1 09:57:15 <V453000> Y2 is centers of 4/8s 09:57:19 <V453000> and Z2 is center of 8/8 09:57:28 <planetmaker> aye 09:57:34 <V453000> well thats why, proper turning 09:57:40 <planetmaker> yep, agreed 09:57:51 <planetmaker> ok, and what's the autoreplace issue now? 09:58:06 <V453000> now the main issue is that I have like 7 various wagons for various engines 09:58:13 <V453000> and all the bullshit "this engine can only haul those wagons" 09:58:28 <V453000> with the ultimate wagon you would autoreplace only engines and wagons would automatically follow 09:58:45 <planetmaker> follow in what way? 09:58:53 <planetmaker> you mean adopt graphics? that doesn't need any refit 09:58:56 <V453000> adapt sprites / all stats 09:59:02 <V453000> no, that keeps original refit 09:59:23 <V453000> the issue of ultimate wagon would come when the wagon would try to refit to coal when attached by a pax-only train 09:59:42 <V453000> since the pax-only trains are vastly superior in all stats, there would be low sense in using anything else 09:59:48 <planetmaker> yes. Just use the refit callback. Query the lead engine in that callback and return "allowed yes/no" 10:00:10 <V453000> that is what I asked about earlier =D so I can change refittability based on leading engine? 10:00:20 <planetmaker> yes, I would think so 10:00:25 <planetmaker> use PARENT scope 10:00:36 <planetmaker> and position in consist 10:03:02 <V453000> well if that works then it solves everything :D 10:03:54 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has joined #openttd 10:03:55 <V453000> position in consist probably isnt important, the engine doesnt need any switch, it has clearly defined what to refit to, just the wagons and it doesnt matter where they are in tha consist :) 10:07:09 <V453000> will try to do stuff tomorrow 10:07:18 <V453000> alcohol and stuff todey 10:09:32 <V453000> maybe I can try to get it done after lunch =D back soon 10:09:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 10:10:01 <andythenorth> BAD FEATURES 10:10:17 <V453000> YES 10:10:51 <planetmaker> agreed. You still shouldn't allow attachment of the wagons in the first place 10:11:00 <planetmaker> if the current cargo doesn't match 10:11:43 <planetmaker> or just have one wagon per engine type :P 10:11:50 <andythenorth> oh youâre actually talking about BAD FEATURES :P 10:11:52 * andythenorth -> logs 10:12:06 <planetmaker> :P 10:13:25 <andythenorth> oic 10:13:34 <andythenorth> I didnât understand why youâre having 2 wagons tbh 10:13:42 <andythenorth> but I donât know nuts very well :) 10:13:50 <andythenorth> apart from some evil trains I remember 10:13:56 <andythenorth> 1 wagon is fine 10:18:24 <planetmaker> hm, new irons for the horse 10:26:29 <andythenorth> only a small one 10:30:31 *** Xrufuian [~Xrufuian@cpe-142-136-204-41.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quit] 10:37:34 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i imagine 0 capacity will break a lot of AIs, and confuse a lot of players 10:37:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a BAD FEATURE waiting to happen 10:39:15 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, i think 2 wagons is the cleanest solution 10:42:35 <andythenorth> or just 1 10:42:50 <andythenorth> no limits 10:42:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:44:19 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:51:11 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:05:13 <supermop> hello 11:07:32 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@c-76-102-167-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:09:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 11:09:44 <andythenorth> V453000: remind me, whatâs the problem with having just 1 wagon? 11:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> boring gameplay, i presume 11:11:06 <peter1138> Isn't that the point of NUTS? 11:11:26 <andythenorth> bloody tourist cargo 11:11:34 <andythenorth> sorry George :) 11:11:40 <supermop> damnit andy new ih? 11:11:47 <supermop> i just started a game 11:12:15 <supermop> well about to quit 11:12:35 <peter1138> Do tourists pay more than commuters? 11:12:42 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 11:12:44 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 11:12:44 <andythenorth> depends on max loan 11:12:47 <andythenorth> lo Alberth 11:12:48 <peter1138> (Well, ignoring season passes and the like) 11:13:00 <Alberth> hi hi 11:14:16 <andythenorth> tourists are bloody express as well as pax 11:14:22 <andythenorth> which fucks over refits 11:14:23 <andythenorth> nvm 11:14:40 <andythenorth> 'non_all_freight': ['TOUR'] :P 11:14:45 <peter1138> Stupid cargo. 11:15:55 <andythenorth> we all do stupid things 11:15:56 <andythenorth> :) 11:16:15 <supermop> i once rode in an open car as a tourist i see no issue 11:16:32 <andythenorth> fair point 11:16:51 <andythenorth> maybe I should allow the mail cars to haul tourists :P 11:16:57 <andythenorth> âsuitcases' 11:17:04 <supermop> really a tourist should want an exciting interesting ride 11:17:21 <supermop> baggage avtually does sound quite a good idea 11:17:32 <Alberth> max loan isn't done yet ? 11:17:51 <supermop> why not model tourists as bags? 11:20:01 <andythenorth> hmm 11:20:03 <andythenorth> where is my ECS 11:20:26 <andythenorth> which vectors do I need? 11:20:43 <andythenorth> Basic Vector for Arctic? 11:20:46 <Alberth> (1, 0) and (0, 1) 11:20:55 <andythenorth> Construction Vector by Pikka? 11:21:03 <Alberth> new horse, I see 11:21:14 <andythenorth> Basic Vector II? 11:21:22 <andythenorth> which one is Tourists? 11:22:09 <andythenorth> ugh 11:22:17 <andythenorth> released version of OTTD has tiny GUI 11:22:27 <andythenorth> like itâs 2013 or something 11:22:50 <Alberth> town, for 1.1.2 11:23:00 <Alberth> http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ECS_Vectors 11:23:40 <andythenorth> ta 11:23:46 <Alberth> although I never managed to get any tourist :p 11:24:35 <V453000> planetmaker: nuts currently does have one wagon per engine class kind of :P iz bad 11:24:58 *** Marshy [~oftc-webi@212.50.186.227] has joined #openttd 11:25:05 *** Hazzard_ [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 11:25:12 <V453000> andythenorth: the problem with 1 wagon is that there are express trains which are better than anything else, and are meant to only carry express cargoes 11:25:43 <andythenorth> are they faster than other trains? 11:27:06 <V453000> a lot 11:27:11 <V453000> faster, stronger, better 11:27:57 <V453000> if disallowing to refit the wagons to specific cargoes with some engines works, it could be fine then 11:28:48 <andythenorth> confusing 11:29:18 <andythenorth> you need two wagons, then either prevent attach, or use a speed limit 11:29:19 <Marshy> Ola 11:29:24 <andythenorth> speed limits are the answer 11:29:34 <andythenorth> or get rid of the express trains 11:29:43 <andythenorth> which is even easier decision 11:30:19 <supermop> dont see new horse - do i need new nightly? 11:30:30 <andythenorth> not on bananas yet 11:30:32 <andythenorth> small oversight 11:30:38 <V453000> bad decision though :) they have their use 11:30:39 * andythenorth doing chores 11:30:50 <V453000> speed limits are not helping either if the train is stronger :) 11:30:53 <andythenorth> V453000: well get rid of the other engines then 11:30:56 <andythenorth> just use express 11:31:00 <V453000> ... :) 11:31:12 <V453000> variety is a word? :P 11:31:52 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:31:56 <Alberth> as in, a sequence of letter without whitespace in-between, sure :) 11:32:08 <Alberth> *letters 11:33:25 <andythenorth> supermop: on bananas now 11:34:01 <andythenorth> hg != git :P 11:34:08 <andythenorth> thatâs 5 mins of wtf I wonât get back 11:35:27 <andythenorth> hg add . is also highly undesirable :P 11:35:34 * andythenorth might have to switch to git 11:36:41 <V453000> so how do I apply a switch to those? can they be used as a callback somehow? cargo_allow_refit: []; cargo_disallow_refit: [YETI]; 11:37:06 *** SHOTbyGUN [shotbygun@213-186-253-83.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:37:14 <V453000> cause they arent included in callbacks on the tt-wiki 11:37:15 <V453000> :d 11:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: there is a refit callback 11:37:48 <andythenorth> do it with the refit cost cb 11:37:57 <andythenorth> it has an allow / disallow option 11:38:00 <V453000> O_O 11:38:05 <andythenorth> youâre breaking everyoneâs orders though 11:38:08 <andythenorth> silently 11:38:11 <andythenorth> itâs a bad idea 11:38:35 * andythenorth isnât just arguing for sake of arguing :P 11:38:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still recommending just the 2 wagon solution 11:38:53 <andythenorth> me too 11:39:09 <V453000> I will include that for sure in parameters 11:39:19 <V453000> just want to try and see how would one wagon work 11:40:08 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: product(1-alpha) seem right to me 11:42:31 <andythenorth> come on bundles :P 11:42:33 <andythenorth> faster 11:44:24 <Alberth> good products take time to cook :) 11:44:26 * andythenorth watches jenkins 11:45:16 <andythenorth> so slow 11:47:27 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 11:48:29 <Alberth> things are always slow when you watch them 11:49:22 <andythenorth> science fact 11:49:31 <andythenorth> supermop: youâd better upgrade :P 11:49:42 <andythenorth> also I just broke all savegames, but didnât bump version 11:49:43 <andythenorth> oops 11:49:44 <andythenorth> nvm 11:55:23 <andythenorth> that tourists bug will also affect Road Hog 11:55:26 <andythenorth> and Squid :( 11:55:28 <andythenorth> bah 12:01:01 <planetmaker> 'tourists bug'? 12:01:15 <andythenorth> tourists set express cargo 12:01:20 <andythenorth> class / cargo /s 12:01:22 <andythenorth> itâs not a bug 12:01:27 <andythenorth> but it causes bugs in sets 12:01:35 <andythenorth> if that makes sense :P 12:02:13 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:03:21 <V453000> tourists are obviously oversized 12:04:12 <andythenorth> only on the way home 12:04:26 <supermop> why not silently remove tourists from game and chide player for attempting to transport them 12:04:51 <planetmaker> right, yes. So the 'bug' is that class 'express' usually is treated like that it's not a passenger? 12:05:19 <planetmaker> one could argue that tourists being class 'express' is a bug, too :) 12:05:31 <planetmaker> depends. But doesn't matter as it is like it is 12:05:52 <planetmaker> treat it by cargo label and you're safe :) 12:06:05 <andythenorth> well now itâs a fact in the wild 12:06:11 <andythenorth> not hard to fix, just blearch 12:06:13 <planetmaker> using the properties which explicitly allow or disallow certain labels 12:06:18 <andythenorth> already done ;) 12:08:33 <V453000> nuts hax that all the time :P 12:10:37 <peter1138> We added the "explicity add/remove cargo carrying by label" property, didn't we? 12:10:51 <andythenorth> yup 12:10:55 <andythenorth> problem solved 12:10:59 <peter1138> Before that it was pretty impossible :p 12:11:01 <andythenorth> nothing to see here except griping 12:11:02 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 12:11:03 <V453000> yez 12:11:21 <andythenorth> anyway, should buy menu show the cargo decay rate thing? 12:11:24 <andythenorth> for vehicules 12:11:51 <peter1138> Qubicles? 12:12:07 <andythenorth> maybe 12:13:18 <planetmaker> andythenorth, how do you want to show it? 12:13:26 <andythenorth> good question 12:13:33 <andythenorth> what does the number mean, to player? 12:13:37 <planetmaker> nothing 12:13:39 <andythenorth> same for loading speed I guess 12:13:42 <planetmaker> yup 12:13:48 <planetmaker> just put it into nice words 12:13:58 <andythenorth> not possible 12:14:09 <planetmaker> and don't make it too complicated (i.e. vary by cargo and time and mood ;) ) 12:14:22 <andythenorth> my compile doesnât allow extra buy menu text 12:14:31 <planetmaker> fast / slow / normal ? 12:14:36 <planetmaker> ach, you and your compile not possible 12:14:52 <V453000> NICE WORDS XD 12:14:58 <V453000> loading speed does make sense though I think 12:15:37 <andythenorth> extra buy menu text is a sign of weak design imho 12:15:37 <planetmaker> you fixed your compile process up to the point that it now inhibits you making nice stuff, andythenorth :) 12:15:48 <Alberth> not really, amount of cargo / speed does 12:16:03 <Alberth> ie full loading time 12:16:08 <andythenorth> Iâve gone right off extra text, I think itâs used to gloss over terrible ideas 12:16:11 <andythenorth> and make them sound nice 12:16:46 <planetmaker> loading speed and cargo decay are viable differentiations between vehicles. Adding that info imho does not constitute bad feature nor terrible ideas 12:16:49 <andythenorth> Iâd bin the text in FIRS if I could only think how 12:16:50 <Alberth> it can be used for that, yeah 12:17:14 <andythenorth> if those properties are valid to show to player, then ottd should do it 12:17:15 <V453000> XD 12:17:27 <V453000> andy I think you are going too far with removing things 12:17:33 <V453000> no offense 12:18:01 <planetmaker> andythenorth, but then openttd would have to decide about the meaning of normal speed 12:18:04 <planetmaker> which cannot really be done 12:18:36 <planetmaker> at least not sensibly. Because then immediately another person comes and goes like my normal speed is a different value 12:18:46 <andythenorth> V453000: you only have one wagon, and youâre breaking orders, so pot, kettle, eh? :D 12:18:46 <planetmaker> (speed as in loading speed or cargo decay speed) 12:19:04 <argoneus> my normal speed > your normal speed 12:19:06 <V453000> XD 12:19:08 <planetmaker> yes, you're equally bad. Just different ;) 12:19:11 <andythenorth> there already are normalised values for those props 12:19:14 <V453000> that is different :D 12:19:17 <andythenorth> theyâre well established 12:19:55 <planetmaker> andythenorth, are they? Of course there are defaults for the default vehicles. But... 12:20:09 <planetmaker> anyhow, it's a weak argument of yours :) 12:20:12 <andythenorth> well yes 12:20:23 <andythenorth> so we just leave them out of buy menu and be done with it 12:20:26 <andythenorth> agreed 12:20:51 <V453000> XD 12:20:53 <planetmaker> lol 12:20:55 <V453000> awesome 12:21:56 <andythenorth> no patch required 12:24:22 <NGC3982> Good friday. 12:28:22 <Eddi|zuHause> good friday was half a year ago 12:30:03 <NGC3982> I wonder why the English language does not use that more often. 12:30:31 <planetmaker> obviously it was only moderately good to crucify s/o 12:32:38 <andythenorth> forest objects \o/ 12:32:42 <andythenorth> nice newgrf :) 12:35:38 <__ln__> can we please start using the words 'overmorrow' and 'ereysterday'? 12:35:56 <planetmaker> you mean to re-start using them? 12:36:10 <__ln__> that's right 12:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "ÃŒbermorgen" and "vorgestern" are perfectly well established german words... 12:37:44 <Alberth> as are "overmorgen" en "eergisteren" in Dutch 12:37:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and i always struggle with translating them 12:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently, english people don't look more than one day ahead or one day in the past 12:39:41 <__ln__> more or less all[*] languages except modern english have such words. 12:39:42 <b_jonas_> Eddi|zuHause: or they use phrases like "Monday week" 12:40:51 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas_: wtf is that supposed to mean? 12:41:08 <andythenorth> a week from the next Monday of course 12:41:10 <andythenorth> English :P 12:41:15 <andythenorth> theyâre their there 12:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause> why not just say "next monday" [as opposed to "this monday"], like normal people? 12:43:30 <b_jonas_> a moment, I'm searching for the link explaining this 12:43:37 <b_jonas_> it's apparently regional 12:43:39 *** b_jonas_ is now known as b_jonas 12:44:43 <andythenorth> no no 12:45:05 <andythenorth> next monday is easily conflated 12:46:49 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:46:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 12:46:58 <b_jonas> Monday week discussion => http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/draakslair/viewtopic.php?t=8002&highlight=1062 12:53:01 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-126-81.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:53:22 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: similar words exist in Japanese as well 12:53:35 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:58:40 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.180.213.218] has joined #openttd 12:59:39 *** slonik [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 13:04:54 <supermop> good night 13:05:08 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.180.213.218] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:25 <planetmaker> g'night Suicyder 13:05:29 <planetmaker> ups... supermop :) 13:06:11 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:08:29 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/glitchy_newobjects.png planetmaker: ground tile of the opengfx+landscape tower seems not properly updated, is this newgrf related? 13:09:21 <Alberth> bottom tower was just placed, the white cursor stays visible, the back tower was placed, and moved out and back into the main display 13:09:51 <planetmaker> might well be, yes. I recall there's some issue, though I didn't recall there being an issue with normal ground tiles 13:09:58 <planetmaker> just with steep slopes 13:10:02 <Alberth> bounding box seems a bit low 13:10:32 <Alberth> but then you'd expect glitches in the top part 13:11:22 <planetmaker> the ground definitely has nothing to do with bounding box 13:11:38 <planetmaker> rather seems like it adds a transparent ground sprite (or none) 13:12:46 *** yorick_ [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:12:58 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-190-48.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:13:07 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/bounding_box.png 13:13:25 <planetmaker> he :P Ugly 13:13:33 <planetmaker> or rather buggy 13:13:50 <Alberth> I'll make a few issues at the landscape project 13:15:54 <Alberth> ha, #6695 didn't make its target version :p 13:18:26 <Alberth> Oh, it already exists as feature #2311 13:20:06 <planetmaker> seems so :) 13:20:12 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 13:20:58 <planetmaker> he, Alberth did forget to open one irc window :P 13:21:18 <Alberth> only one? 13:21:23 <Alberth> three, I think :p 13:21:28 <planetmaker> :) 13:21:39 <planetmaker> I assume several channels per window 13:21:49 <Alberth> yep :) 13:23:27 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.180.213.218] has joined #openttd 14:00:02 <andythenorth> what does it mean? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7027 14:00:08 <andythenorth> I get these tickets sometimes 14:00:09 <Sacro> PBIMTTD? 14:01:25 <Alberth> andythenorth: stable isn't updated with new translations? 14:02:03 <andythenorth> I guess I have to release 14:02:10 <andythenorth> wondering if itâs 1.0 14:02:17 <andythenorth> anyone using Termite? Is it 1.0? 14:02:49 <Alberth> I'll have to fix a few compile errors before I can look 14:03:11 <andythenorth> only German changed since 0.3 14:03:22 *** berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has joined #openttd 14:03:28 <Alberth> silversurfer does spanish iirc 14:04:30 <Alberth> he does indeed 14:04:35 <andythenorth> ok 14:04:41 <andythenorth> 0.2 release covered that ticket then 14:05:07 <andythenorth> automated translation releases :P 14:05:29 <Alberth> bananas has 0.3 it seems 14:05:33 <andythenorth> yup 14:06:04 <andythenorth> planetmaker: snow CHIPS? o_O 14:06:04 <Alberth> there are more newgrfs with that problem I think 14:06:23 <Alberth> santa claus waiting at the station for goods! 14:07:42 <andythenorth> so 14:07:43 <planetmaker> snow chips, indeed 14:07:57 <andythenorth> I probably have most of the sprites in FIRS already 14:08:00 <andythenorth> ... 14:08:25 <planetmaker> and those tickets mean that the translator is displeased with the release cycle and wants to see his translations released on bananas :) 14:08:32 <planetmaker> had them, too :P 14:09:13 <andythenorth> bananas should fetch nightlies :P 14:09:16 <andythenorth> maybe not 14:10:25 <andythenorth> planetmaker: how confident are you that you can code the snow? o_O I could start updating sprites... 14:10:36 <Alberth> it should have a project page "make changeset F00 release 1.2.3" 14:10:58 <Alberth> it == devzone 14:12:52 *** berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:14:37 <planetmaker> andythenorth, in principle it's not difficult to make devzone upload nightly or weekly builds to bananas 14:14:54 <planetmaker> all tools are there, basically. It just needs some small changes 14:15:00 <andythenorth> we donât have any way of marking them as ânon-released' 14:15:07 <andythenorth> or unstable 14:15:21 <planetmaker> well. The version displayed might. 14:15:26 <planetmaker> FIRS 1.3.0 14:15:36 <planetmaker> FIRS v5493 (nightly) 14:15:49 <planetmaker> or whatever. The (nightly) part currently is not there, but meh 14:16:18 <planetmaker> as with respect to snow on CHIPS: I didn't yet find time to actually try. But I still believe it's doable 14:16:37 *** mordant [~mordant@adsl-76-235-174-214.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 14:16:39 <planetmaker> though tbh, I'm still scared of nfo :P 14:16:42 <andythenorth> he 14:16:43 <andythenorth> maybe I do âearly trainsâ for Iron Horse 14:16:51 <andythenorth> and then maglev 14:17:00 <planetmaker> but I still want to do it. So... 14:17:00 <andythenorth> should the early + maglev be configurable to âoffâ? 14:17:07 <andythenorth> they wil be same for all rosters 14:17:08 <planetmaker> no, why? 14:17:11 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 14:17:27 <andythenorth> 1 horse, 1 steam engine, 1 pax maglev, 1 freight maglev 14:17:28 <planetmaker> don't play early: no early ones there. Don't use maglev: no problem 14:17:39 <andythenorth> I use âvehicles never expireâ :D 14:17:56 <andythenorth> oh we have that hide thing now 14:17:57 <andythenorth> neat 14:17:59 <planetmaker> rather than that parameter add purchase list texts :P 14:18:22 <andythenorth> I disagree with purchase texts 14:18:28 <andythenorth> you disagree with my parameter 14:18:33 <andythenorth> weâre even :P 14:19:06 <andythenorth> V453000 is quite wrong though 14:19:39 <planetmaker> agreed :P 14:22:58 <andythenorth> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/freight-maglev-on-test.html 14:36:43 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:43:36 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:53:16 <horazont> hmm 14:57:37 <Alberth> interesting 15:00:20 <andythenorth> so Iron Horse etc have a concept of âpackaged goodsâ which are fast 15:00:27 <andythenorth> so only packaged goods on freight maglev? 15:00:29 <andythenorth> or coal also :P 15:00:58 <Alberth> packaged goods could be nice 15:01:24 <Alberth> the problem with not allowing some cargo is that you cannot mix trains on the network easily 15:01:44 <Alberth> but you can see that as a good thing I guess 15:01:54 <Alberth> as mass-update to maglev won't work :p 15:02:46 <andythenorth> capsule pipelines http://www.capsu.org/history/pcp_developments.html 15:02:58 <andythenorth> I see no reason to ban coal etc 15:03:12 <andythenorth> it just gets very boring 15:03:24 <andythenorth> because Iâm only providing limited vehicles 15:03:50 * andythenorth absolutely needs to do a pipelines grf :P 15:04:50 <Alberth> I am still looking for a way to build a multi-cargo transport backbone 15:05:08 <Alberth> I should probably do something with refitting 15:05:17 <andythenorth> ? 15:06:05 <Alberth> serving industries around the country, ie transport everything it needs and produces 15:06:10 <Alberth> for all industry kinds 15:06:46 <Alberth> gets extremely messy when you have more than a few different cargoes 15:07:08 <andythenorth> you lack appropriate vehicles, or appropriate orders? o_O 15:07:21 <Alberth> vehicles, atm 15:07:46 <andythenorth> IH open wagons refit everything 15:08:05 <Alberth> should try that one then 15:08:26 <andythenorth> except mail 15:08:32 <andythenorth> IH box vans appear to refit everything 15:08:36 <andythenorth> except pax 15:08:42 <Alberth> I can live without pax/mail :) 15:09:47 <andythenorth> ok, itâs the open cars that refit everything except pax/mail 15:09:50 <andythenorth> box car more limited 15:09:59 <andythenorth> 2 generations, fastes one is 85mph 15:10:46 <andythenorth> biab 15:10:54 <Alberth> bye bye 15:15:32 <planetmaker> bye 15:15:43 <planetmaker> and come back with snowy sprites ;) 15:26:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that's only a tiny step before "and don't bother coming back without..." 15:34:06 <planetmaker> he, lol :) no, that's far from how I meant it 15:37:34 *** pxr [~Mychomize@46-236-110-230.customer.t3.se] has joined #openttd 15:43:08 <Alberth> perhaps code a simple station builder for NFO in python? 15:43:34 <Alberth> should be relatively easy to raise the abstraction level, and flexible enough to change as you want 15:45:02 <Eddi|zuHause> a code generator! what a novel idea! 15:45:51 <Alberth> that would imply you know what your higher level language primitives are :p 15:52:19 <planetmaker> Alberth, that implies I know how the nfo works. In order to get a fundamental grasp I agreed to try add some snow sprites :) 15:52:49 <Alberth> fair enough :) 15:57:44 <Eddi|zuHause> but if there's a hole in the bucket... 15:58:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:01:16 <planetmaker> andythenorth, you had somewhere a snowy version for something in chips. can you link me to it again, please? 16:01:48 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/changes/sprites/graphics/grain_cargo_snow.png 16:02:06 <andythenorth> will require handling the cargo states, so itâs probably one of the more complex cases 16:02:18 <andythenorth> the other complex case is randomisation of buildings / vehicles on a tile 16:02:25 <peter1138> µµ 16:02:26 <andythenorth> but both should just be a single varaction 2 16:02:32 <andythenorth> in the graphics chain 16:02:46 <planetmaker> ok, so that's not yet coded that png? 16:02:51 <andythenorth> nope :) 16:02:52 <andythenorth> old FIRS used to have nfo snow support, how hard can it be for stations? :x 16:03:17 <planetmaker> not much more difficult. but stations being stations being stations being nfo :P 16:03:47 <planetmaker> and had I pulled I would have seen that commit with it :) 16:10:24 *** ginko [~ginko@0001b68f.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:19:01 <peter1138> Stations, woo! 16:23:41 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:24:42 <andythenorth> hmm 16:24:44 <andythenorth> maglev 16:24:48 <peter1138> Boring! 16:24:52 <andythenorth> or tubes 16:25:09 <andythenorth> capsule pipelines 16:28:23 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:29:20 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: Quitting.] 16:30:17 <andythenorth> so whatâs boring about maglev then peter1138 ? 16:30:19 <andythenorth> specifically 16:30:23 <andythenorth> or generally 16:31:34 <peter1138> Trying to figure out which track bits are placed is boring. 16:34:15 <andythenorth> oh yeah 16:34:17 <andythenorth> I remember that 16:34:19 <andythenorth> sucks 16:34:26 <andythenorth> and maglev is ugly also 16:35:28 <peter1138> Maybe I'll make a test-GRF one day, for the GRF-provides-all-track-combinations patch. 16:36:19 <andythenorth> ? 16:36:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BE06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:36:33 <peter1138> The patch that pikka wanted. 16:36:35 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 16:36:56 <andythenorth> what does it do o_O 16:40:07 <andythenorth> really :o 16:40:13 <andythenorth> yet another fucking cost thread? 16:40:20 <andythenorth> cost / payment /s 16:40:24 <andythenorth> days after the last one 16:41:41 <peter1138> Er, it... lets the GRF provide all track combinations... er... 16:41:56 <peter1138> Instead of combining different pieces for junctions. 16:46:50 <andythenorth> oh that yeah 16:46:54 <andythenorth> so no more janky crossings 16:47:09 <peter1138> I suspect it would be useful for 4x tiles. 16:47:41 <peter1138> There's still the problem that | and - track is distorted. 16:48:41 *** TomyLobo [~foo@ip5b417367.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #openttd 16:54:34 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:54:56 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:21 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 16:58:10 <andythenorth> thereâs also the problem that / and \ views in Squid are longer than the â views 16:58:10 <andythenorth> :P 16:58:15 <andythenorth> problems everywhere 16:58:34 <planetmaker> nfo is meh. Did I say so already? 17:04:49 <andythenorth> that happens 17:04:56 <Eddi|zuHause> turn it into m4nfo :) 17:25:37 *** slonik [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:48 *** slonik [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 17:29:56 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:40:37 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:40:40 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:43:54 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:45:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27065 trunk/src/lang/danish.txt (2014-11-21 17:45:16 UTC) 17:45:24 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:25 <DorpsGek> danish - 18 changes by manframe 17:45:29 <andythenorth> hmm 17:45:37 <andythenorth> pipelines are a faff to signal 17:45:41 <andythenorth> and take a lot of space 17:45:45 <andythenorth> theyâd be better as trams 17:46:00 <andythenorth> or we could go mad, and add a new transport type :o 17:46:04 <andythenorth> imagine 17:47:57 <Eddi|zuHause> hmm... my mouse battery is emtpy. but if i get up now to replace it, the cat will demand food 17:49:41 <andythenorth> so give it food? :) 17:49:46 <andythenorth> thatâs how it works with children 17:49:54 <andythenorth> except when itâs the wrong time 17:50:18 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 17:50:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i always said it'd be better as roadtype 17:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but there's nothing really speaking against a new transport type for pipes/cablecars/skilifts etc. 17:52:46 <Eddi|zuHause> ... rollercoasters :p 17:54:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BE06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:30 <planetmaker> from rollercoaster import * 17:54:58 <andythenorth> apart from coding it... 17:55:02 <andythenorth> but the game is kind of done 17:55:05 <andythenorth> so what next eh? 17:56:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like in faust, as soon as you say "this is finished, it should stay this way", the devil will come and claim his part of the deal 17:56:27 <andythenorth> I didnât know that was from faust :) 17:56:32 <andythenorth> but the sentiment is good 17:56:38 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:56:52 <Eddi|zuHause> well you probably didn't read faust in school :p 17:58:30 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:58:43 *** Marshy [~oftc-webi@212.50.186.227] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:00:28 *** trendynick [~trendynic@188.26.254.119] has joined #openttd 18:01:54 *** itsatacoshop247_ [~itsatacos@c-76-102-167-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 18:02:07 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@179.180.213.218] has joined #openttd 18:03:05 <andythenorth> not so much 18:03:37 <andythenorth> so bi-directional transport on a single tile 18:03:43 <andythenorth> discrete packets 18:03:49 <andythenorth> are junctions allowed? 18:05:03 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has joined #openttd 18:08:51 *** ginko [~ginko@0001b68f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:54 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.180.213.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:08:57 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 18:11:15 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 18:11:24 *** ginko [~ginko@0001b68f.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> no 18:20:06 <Eddi|zuHause> junctions can only be at "pumping" stations 18:21:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:22:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:22:43 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how much follows from what we already have? 18:22:49 <andythenorth> we keep orders etc? 18:22:56 <andythenorth> pumping stations ~= waypoints? 18:23:45 <Eddi|zuHause> pumping stations are more like depots, they create and disband vehicles 18:24:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but they also load cargo onto those vehicles 18:29:06 <andythenorth> and do we have stations? 18:29:14 <andythenorth> separately? 18:29:21 * andythenorth assumes not 18:29:21 <Eddi|zuHause> no 18:30:13 <Eddi|zuHause> but this creates a gui problem 18:31:01 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p4FE23441.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:32:50 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, once you connected two pumping stations, they act sort of like a train, one side issues a "wagon" depending on how far along the consist you are, and the other side consumes it or sends it back 18:33:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the number of vehicles in the consist defines how often the pumping station pumps and how fast it goes 18:33:19 <Eddi|zuHause> up to a capacity 18:34:20 <argoneus> ayy 18:34:22 <andythenorth> so this would need designed + build from ground up, rather than a hack on trains? 18:34:40 <Alberth> just use pumpstations at every tile? 18:35:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: offers no advantage 18:35:42 <Alberth> more capacity, since travel time of the vehicle is shorter 18:35:44 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: if they act like a depot, the vehicle must travel through the entire pumping station tile 18:36:34 *** MTs-iPad [~MTs-iPad@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: in any case, it's no different than station walking/teleporting 18:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause> plus maintenance costs will go through the roof 18:37:55 <Alberth> :) 18:39:28 <andythenorth> so it shouldnât be too easy to do ultimate transport type... 18:39:42 <andythenorth> with current PIPE grf, it has two limitations 18:39:54 <andythenorth> it has crappy signal sprites, which are hard to see (bad limitation) 18:40:08 <andythenorth> it takes a ful tile for one direction (neither good nor bad limitation) 18:40:12 <andythenorth> full * 18:40:23 <andythenorth> so routing pipelines takes thought 18:40:25 <Eddi|zuHause> current PIPE grf has it completely wrong. pipes are not fast 18:40:33 <andythenorth> but the signal faff is just yak-shaving 18:40:44 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: wrong against reality, but works in game 18:40:53 <andythenorth> implementation is ugh, result is ok 18:41:26 <Eddi|zuHause> pipe "vehicles" have no speed, they move forward every time the pumping station issues a new vehicle 18:42:25 <Eddi|zuHause> which may depend on loading speed 18:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> this will make things terrible for low throughput links 18:44:16 <andythenorth> ha yes 18:47:22 <andythenorth> whatâs the movement like? 18:47:46 *** Hazzard [~Hazzard@207.163.165.37] has joined #openttd 18:48:17 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 18:50:53 <Eddi|zuHause> same as train wagons, only that the engine is not at the beginning 18:51:00 <andythenorth> are vehicles represented? 18:51:02 * andythenorth assumes so 18:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, cablecars etc. would need representing 18:51:30 <andythenorth> one direction per tile, or bi-directional? 18:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause> newgrf can choose to make transparent sprites 18:51:46 <Eddi|zuHause> bi-directional 18:52:23 * andythenorth trying to work out if a vertical offset is possible 18:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause> same way as elevated trams/subways, or flexible bridges 18:53:24 <andythenorth> elevated trams are crap 18:53:29 <andythenorth> they hit catenary 18:53:33 <andythenorth> they hit bridges 18:53:36 <andythenorth> they hit tunnels 18:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> cable cars or power lines could kinda use elevation 18:54:00 <andythenorth> yup 18:54:25 <andythenorth> it ought to be a full height level, baked in, not a hack by pushing sprites upwards 18:54:38 <andythenorth> dunno if thatâs possible though 18:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it needs implementing 18:55:23 <andythenorth> any restrictions on crossing other transport types? 18:55:37 <Eddi|zuHause> what speaks against underground/elevated tram is the connector pieces with normal tram 18:55:42 <andythenorth> also is there a bridge concept? Can it cross own route orthogonally 18:55:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: not on same level 18:56:08 <Eddi|zuHause> bridge would be a replacement for an elevation concept 18:56:19 <andythenorth> needs a spec :) 18:56:30 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have elevation, you don't need bridges 18:56:34 <andythenorth> yup 18:56:42 <andythenorth> if you have elevation, tunnels are game-over? 18:57:09 <Eddi|zuHause> tunnel=negative elevation 18:57:32 <Eddi|zuHause> or, to start a tunnel, elevation must first be lowered to 0 18:59:55 <andythenorth> we could also have elevation -1? 19:00:10 <andythenorth> :P 19:00:10 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe 19:00:57 <Eddi|zuHause> save for a real underground mode, it's the only useful way to get subways 19:01:20 <andythenorth> how would the tile above show the underground route? 19:01:28 <andythenorth> not doing that would suck for various reasons 19:02:20 <Eddi|zuHause> for subways, maybe cut out sections of the road, so it shines through (like transparency) 19:03:50 <Alberth> we'll add a "transparent tile" tool, like dynamite, but it makes the land transparent :p 19:19:26 <andythenorth> so is it done yet? o_O 19:27:46 *** dasy2k1 [~dasy2k1@00013112.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:28:51 <dasy2k1> hi all looking in the source code at the moment to find which file controls the settings gui. the obvious choice of settings_gui.cpp turned out to be the file for the game options gui 19:29:24 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:30:01 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01c857.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:30:53 <dasy2k1> trawled through all the other likley contenders but no luck there either 19:31:12 <Eddi|zuHause> settings_gui is for the display, table/settings.ini is for what settings there are 19:31:13 <Alberth> what settings? 19:31:26 <Alberth> quak 19:32:16 <andythenorth> quak quak 19:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe look at revisions that add a setting to get more feeling for it 19:32:50 <frosch123> hola 19:32:57 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what is this new transport type called? 19:33:06 <dasy2k1> possibly. the settings window im after is what used to be called the advanced settings 19:33:07 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise, give more details about what you're trying to do 19:34:24 <dasy2k1> I want to see how the expantion of groups with +- buttons is done with the view to making the vehicle groups gui collapsable with nested groups 19:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause> oh. maybe try widget/tree_widget.h 19:35:58 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:36:37 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:37:15 <Alberth> dasy2k1: SettingsPage and SettingsContainer have fold/unfold 19:37:43 <dasy2k1> hmm Eddi|zuHause looks like tree_widget is for trees that grow not trees of lists 19:38:47 <Eddi|zuHause> possible. i try to stay away from gui as far as possible :p 19:39:19 <Alberth> clicking the close button is an adventure :) 19:40:36 <dasy2k1> sorry Alberth where are SettingsPage and SettingsContainer located? 19:41:33 <Alberth> SettingEntry <-- sorry, that's the basic elementI think, settings_gui.cpp line 745 19:41:48 <Alberth> SettingsPage is below it 19:42:05 <Alberth> line 805 19:43:26 <Alberth> but I can see the use of a template if you want to copy the code 19:44:10 <Alberth> or pehaps a base class 19:44:14 <dasy2k1> ahh ok (i admit that this is my first foray into the code itself, all i have done before is tweak newgrf code around) 19:44:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i meant gui code, not using gui :p 19:45:09 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: :D 19:46:24 <Alberth> dasy2k1: you may want to have a look at a previous version first, before the filters were added 19:47:15 <dasy2k1> hmm looking at the way it works is might be better to use the folding from the cargo waiting display in a station rather than from settings 19:48:13 <dasy2k1> Alberth: can you suggest a version? 19:51:06 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host156-13-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:51:27 <Wolf01> hi 19:51:37 <dasy2k1> hi Wolf01 19:51:57 <Alberth> r24329 or r24411 or so 19:51:59 <Alberth> hi hi 19:53:21 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 19:54:44 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [SeaMonkey 2.30/20141101183419]] 19:56:06 <frosch123> meh, so much spam today 19:56:32 <Wolf01> bah, too many brand new pieces on the last lego set... I can't rebuild it on LDD 19:56:52 <frosch123> V453000: whatever, the allow_attach callback is evaluated by autoreplace. it would be terrible if a vehicle set would allow autoreplace to make a train crappy 20:02:41 <dasy2k1> hmm the bit i was looking to reuse is not there that far back... looks to me at the moment that the code that could be reused somewhat is in station_gui.cpp at around like 1300 20:04:10 <andythenorth> does NUTS allow station refit? 20:04:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, cargodist was added later than the settings filters 20:05:38 * andythenorth ponders 20:05:43 <andythenorth> so maglev, or not? 20:05:45 <andythenorth> in Iron Horse 20:05:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can't find settings_gui without filters and station_gui with tree view in the same revision 20:05:54 <andythenorth> currently nothing new after year 2000 20:05:57 <andythenorth> which doesnât bother me 20:06:04 <andythenorth> because Iâm playing 1900-2000 20:06:11 <andythenorth> but eh 20:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: point people to other maglev sets 20:06:48 <andythenorth> Iâd kind of like to do a nice treatment of futuristic trains 20:06:50 <andythenorth> just a few 20:06:57 <Eddi|zuHause> or make a "iron maglev" set 20:07:38 <Eddi|zuHause> range 2000-2100, similar vehicle development 20:07:56 *** JGR_ [~JGR@host81-156-244-103.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:08:18 *** JGR [~JGR@host81-129-181-158.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:08:29 <andythenorth> possible 20:08:36 <andythenorth> dunno if I have enough motivation though 20:09:08 <Eddi|zuHause> or do something crazy: make a monorail set :p 20:09:21 <andythenorth> dan wants to do that 20:09:24 <andythenorth> but not futuristic 20:09:25 <andythenorth> retro 20:09:34 <dasy2k1> thanks everyone , real life calls at the moment but i may be back later 20:10:26 <Eddi|zuHause> my brain always wants to parse your name as "das" "y2k" and has a leftover "1" 20:11:24 *** Hazzard [~Hazzard@207.163.165.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:56 *** Hazzard [~Hazzard@207.163.165.37] has joined #openttd 20:18:54 <Wolf01> http://img-9gag-ftw.9cache.com/photo/aAVKOQp_460sv_v1.mp4 :o 20:19:10 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:20:43 <dasy2k1> Eddi|zuHause: yeh you want to prounce it more or lest correctly then, its das y2k1 not daisy2k1 20:24:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:28:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:29:37 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:34:58 *** Hazzard [~Hazzard@207.163.165.37] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 20:36:15 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:39:21 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:43:31 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so name for this transport type? 20:43:42 <andythenorth> Packets? 20:43:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not in the naming business 20:46:09 <andythenorth> well what is it, conceptually? 20:47:45 <Eddi|zuHause> something that covers pipes, conveyor belts, cable cars, power lines, ... 20:49:32 <andythenorth> point to point 20:50:16 <andythenorth> dunno 20:54:59 <frosch123> sounds like factorio 20:56:46 <andythenorth> might just be âconveyor' 20:58:50 <argoneus> why is postapocalyptic used when referring to a nuked world? 20:58:58 <argoneus> I thought apocalypse was end of the world due to some prophecy 20:59:53 <frosch123> yes, but apocalypsis does not mean supernove 20:59:59 <frosch123> thus there must be some other reason 21:00:49 <argoneus> on a related note 21:00:52 <argoneus> nukes are scary things ._. 21:00:53 <frosch123> so there are various types of apocalypsis novels: zombies, viruses, comets, nukes, stupidity, ... 21:01:00 <argoneus> to think that there are countries in the world today 21:01:08 <argoneus> who could singlehandedly destroy all life in a matter of hours 21:01:31 <frosch123> you are too young 21:01:46 <argoneus> was this a real threat during the cold war? 21:02:01 <argoneus> I thought the cold war was mostly an economical conflict 21:02:18 <frosch123> in cold war cccr had way more nucear weapons than us afaik 21:02:21 <Eddi|zuHause> the greek-derived word "apokalypsis" means "reveal" 21:02:32 <frosch123> us was confident with having enough weapons to destroy earth 21:02:33 <argoneus> (also please stop me before it gets "political" again, I do not seek a ban) 21:02:43 <frosch123> while cccr had enough to destroy it like 500 times 21:02:52 <argoneus> oh 21:02:53 <argoneus> than US, not us 21:03:04 <argoneus> soviet engineering :D 21:03:06 <frosch123> yeah, sorry :) 21:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> in christian belief systems, "apokalypsis" means the end of the world as we know it 21:03:35 <frosch123> anyway, it proves the point that it does not matter whether you have enough to destroy earth 21:03:40 <frosch123> you just need bigger numbers than the others 21:03:56 <argoneus> so the reason why there hasn't been an open nuclear war 21:04:02 <Eddi|zuHause> in science fiction literature, it is usually derived as "some cataclysmic event that destroys most of civilization" 21:04:04 <argoneus> is among others the fact that countries don't know how many nukes another country has? 21:04:09 <argoneus> and doesn't want to suicide? 21:04:24 <frosch123> no, the reason that there is no war is that there is no point in war 21:04:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the cataclysm is usually man-made, but not always 21:04:32 <argoneus> well 21:04:35 <argoneus> there was never point in war 21:04:40 <argoneus> but people are greedy by nature 21:04:52 <frosch123> there were many reasons for war before ww1 21:04:52 <argoneus> most huge wars didn't start by "we declare world war" 21:04:54 <Eddi|zuHause> there have been lots of points in war 21:04:56 <argoneus> they started by small petty conflicts 21:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> war has been the primary driver of technological development 21:05:21 <argoneus> see: assassination of a guy, a shootout on polish borders 21:05:24 <frosch123> only ww1 and ww2 pointed out that there is no gain in fighting anyone who is not dramatically weaker 21:05:41 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: that's how they started, not why they were started 21:05:52 <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: oh, as in 21:05:55 <argoneus> these two were the last drop? 21:06:27 <frosch123> yes, because they both ended with noone really winning 21:06:47 <frosch123> but everyone being a lot weaker than before 21:06:54 <Eddi|zuHause> besides, there was a whole month between "a guy being assassinated" and actual war starting 21:07:34 <argoneus> I don't know why, but I find WW1 to be worse than WW2 21:07:36 <argoneus> it just felt... darker... 21:07:41 <frosch123> except maybe US, who likely came out stronger out of ww2 21:07:50 <argoneus> presumably even chemical weapons were used and new things were being tested 21:07:57 <argoneus> it's creepy in a way 21:08:29 <dasy2k1> and when will historians agree on the start date for ww3, we are not quite there yet but if current trends continue i can see kids in 2150 learning that the chain of events that led to ww3 starting started in 2001 with it becomming a world war by around 2020 21:08:29 <frosch123> yes, ww1 is somewhat weird because of the silly things it was started for 21:08:33 <Eddi|zuHause> WW1 is probably "worst" in the case of "senseless dying with no motion in any direction" 21:08:49 <frosch123> ww2 otoh was started for reasons still popular in today's fiction 21:08:52 <argoneus> oh Eddi|zuHause 21:08:54 <argoneus> I read somewhere 21:09:00 <Eddi|zuHause> WW2 however "wins" in terms of atrocities committed 21:09:01 <argoneus> that the troops in the trenches got together and drank tea 21:09:31 <frosch123> i doubt that 21:09:32 <argoneus> that no one really wanted to fight 21:09:37 <frosch123> if at all, they drank alcohol 21:10:05 <frosch123> but yes, there are stories about shared christmas parties of local groups 21:10:14 <Eddi|zuHause> there are studies that a large part of soldiers never actually fired their guns 21:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> this applies to most wars, actually 21:11:23 <argoneus> I'd imagine the common 18 year old doesn't know why he should shoot other 18 yo's 21:11:28 <dasy2k1> it wasnât the universal Christmas truce that people talk about now but there were small areas where there was a cease in hostiliies for the day, mainly used to bury the dead 21:11:59 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@84.40.120.230] has joined #openttd 21:12:07 <frosch123> argoneus: you are underestimating the effects of social expectations 21:12:39 <frosch123> 99% of humans do what the nearby humans expect them to do 21:12:40 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the US spent a lot of time post-WW2 and post-Vietnam training soldiers to actually shoot 21:12:46 <andythenorth> dunno how that goes 21:12:52 <dasy2k1> the main motivation was shoot them or be shot by your own officer for disobeying orders/cowadace 21:13:07 <argoneus> was it same for the officer? 21:13:12 <argoneus> or was the officer brainwashed with ideals 21:13:32 <andythenorth> frosch123: the disparity between USSR and USA wasnât that great http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_arms_race 21:13:38 <andythenorth> depending on what year you choose .... 21:14:27 <dasy2k1> argoneus: pretty much but the officer would be removed from duty, court martialed totally discraced and then exicuted 21:14:37 <andythenorth> the russians also have that doomsday device, which allegedly the USA donât 21:14:46 <frosch123> andythenorth: ok, i thought the west was actually really weak in repect to numbers 21:14:50 <andythenorth> nah 21:15:00 <andythenorth> the USA had a huge stockpile 21:15:16 <andythenorth> playing catch up is thought to be one reason for USSR collapse 21:15:32 <dasy2k1> aaui the ussr had more numbers of nukes but the usa had more powerful nukes 21:15:57 <andythenorth> you can see (for example) why in 1968 Soviets might feel a huge threat from USA 21:16:15 <andythenorth> and more so if you use the polar projection map that Soviet leaders are alleged to use 21:16:18 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@84.40.120.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:36 <andythenorth> which shows USSR encircled by nuclear-armed enemies who can lob missiles into russia easily 21:16:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the race between USSR and USA was never fair to begin with, because the USA were not scarred by war 21:17:13 <argoneus> talking about that 21:17:21 <argoneus> is it just me, or were the japanese even more inhumane than the germans? 21:17:33 <Eddi|zuHause> depends 21:17:35 <argoneus> I read an article about two japanese officers making a bet who can kill more (japanese?) civilians in one day with a sword 21:17:41 <argoneus> that's fucked up... 21:17:48 <frosch123> argoneus: chinese, not japanese 21:17:52 <argoneus> oh, chinese 21:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> japanese atrocities were mainly targeted at the chinese 21:17:59 <andythenorth> http://www.geoatlas.com/medias/maps/world%20maps%20and%20globes/polar/po2165ar98/Polar_pol5.jpg 21:18:09 <frosch123> argoneus: japan killed chinese the way germans killed jews and slavics 21:18:19 <argoneus> slavics? 21:18:22 <andythenorth> ^^^ Russia caught between NATO block and Chinese 21:18:25 <Eddi|zuHause> whereas german atrocities covered large parts of their own population that was not deemed "pure" enough 21:18:26 <frosch123> argoneus: google for rape of nanking or so 21:18:34 <argoneus> I thought they weren't targetting slavs 21:18:44 <argoneus> or rather, in the case of my country, they just occupied it 21:18:45 <argoneus> "just" 21:18:46 <frosch123> argoneus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre 21:19:14 <andythenorth> tonight is history night :P 21:19:29 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: not slavs per se, but oppositionals, jews which lived in the area, homosexuals, gypsies, ... 21:20:12 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: and slavs were widely used as forced labour 21:20:23 <argoneus> okay, that's true 21:20:28 <argoneus> they used our people and factories to make tanks 21:20:39 <argoneus> and they stole the hulls of our tanks 21:20:41 <argoneus> and put their own guns on it 21:20:59 <frosch123> hmm, i always wondered about the correlation between slavs and slaves, is there any? 21:21:00 <Eddi|zuHause> pre-WWII, the tzech army was widely considered as highly technologically advanced 21:21:03 <argoneus> I guess they did everywhere though 21:21:12 <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: yeah 21:21:13 <Eddi|zuHause> which was probably a major reason for occupation 21:21:20 <argoneus> from what I was taught 21:21:27 <argoneus> well, you know, our country is surrounded by mountains 21:21:34 <argoneus> and people say that germans couldn't break through on land 21:21:43 <argoneus> but the reason we gave up and let them occupy is, is that their airforce was superior 21:21:53 <argoneus> and if we tried to fight, prague would be a grassy plain right now 21:22:05 <argoneus> that's what they teach us at least 21:22:17 <argoneus> but apparently our weapons and tanks were on par, if not better, at the time 21:22:26 <Eddi|zuHause> they didn't teach this part really. it just was a small footnote 21:23:12 <frosch123> the usual brittish war movies tell about uk trying to catch on numbers of aircraft 21:23:14 <Eddi|zuHause> there was peaceful annexation of austria, german-inhabited areas of czechia, and then rest-czechia not-so-peaceful. and then the war started 21:23:43 <frosch123> which they did not succeed on production, but by fighting more efficient or so 21:24:13 <Eddi|zuHause> radar made a huge impact 21:24:50 <frosch123> hmm, right, there was this brittish appeacement thingie 21:25:01 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@2001:8a0:ed44:5b01:a113:fc02:c3c0:1dab] has joined #openttd 21:25:09 <andythenorth> frosch123: yes there is a correlation 21:25:15 <andythenorth> I found it last time this came up 21:25:47 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:47 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@2001:8a0:ed44:5b01:a113:fc02:c3c0:1dab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the last time i came across that, it was disputed 21:26:08 <frosch123> andythenorth: is it because for english speakers slaves usually came from the east? 21:26:09 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:26:24 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yes, it was weakly evidenced 21:26:38 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: unlikely, as the name is probably older than the english language 21:26:42 <frosch123> i.e. like germany is called by the surrounding nations with the name of the germanic tribe living nearest to them or so 21:27:10 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the theory is that Slav -> slave 21:27:14 <andythenorth> rather than the reverse 21:27:15 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: latin is servus/serva, which sounds like slave 21:27:30 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery#Terminology 21:27:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but that does not quite explain the german word "Sklave" 21:28:03 <Eddi|zuHause> usually consonants disappear over time, rarely they appear 21:29:46 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 21:33:37 <frosch123> [22:11] <argoneus> I'd imagine the common 18 year old doesn't know why he should shoot other 18 yo's <- btw. there are many cultures where dying for cultural/social/national reason is an honour 21:34:03 <frosch123> it's no modern-terrorism thing at all 21:34:23 <andythenorth> hmm 21:34:27 <andythenorth> maybe vactrains 21:34:34 <andythenorth> something futurisms anyway 21:34:38 <andythenorth> monorail smells 21:35:23 <frosch123> argoneus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Special_Attack_Units#Kaiten <- japanese example from ww2 21:35:25 <andythenorth> or a maglev that doesnât suck 21:36:30 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:47:40 <mordant> Do Entry/Exit signals ignore block signals between them? 21:48:27 <NGC3982> What a horrible way of war reasoning. 21:49:27 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:5501:aa51:946e:51b7] has quit [Quit: .] 21:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause> mordant: no 22:00:08 <mordant> thanks 22:06:59 <andythenorth> hrm 22:07:01 <andythenorth> bed 22:07:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 22:14:54 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BE06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:23:11 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.180.213.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:24:18 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.98.144.247] has joined #openttd 22:29:54 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 22:36:37 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:36:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01c857.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:44:23 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BE06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:18 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 23:00:33 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC] 23:05:51 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:09:21 *** TomyLobo [~foo@ip5b417367.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 23:10:22 <Wolf01> i think my face has an apointment with the pillow 23:10:36 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm notoriously late to appointments... 23:22:35 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p4FE23441.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:40 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 23:28:56 *** trendynick [~trendynic@188.26.254.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]