Log for #openttd on 22nd November 2014:
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09:24:19  <andythenorth_> Bloody cat awol again
09:24:26  <andythenorth_> Where is cat?
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10:03:27  <planetmaker> moin
10:07:33  <peter1138> I like that... "my cpu should be able to run a 16k square map", even though it blatantly doesn't...
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10:57:57  <supermop> does av9.8 have large and small planes or just small?
10:58:20  <supermop> it doesnt seem to say and i dont want this thing to crasjh
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11:01:24  <Eddi|zuHause> some people have an irrational fear of extra text
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11:09:10  <Alberth> :)
11:09:59  <Eddi|zuHause> there's probably some page on a non-working wiki.
11:10:41  <planetmaker> maybe it has also a do-not-readme. Who knows
11:16:35  <peter1138> shouldn't put it in game, too many people would see it.
11:19:40  <supermop> if i had more cash i'd just try it out
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11:32:58  <andythenorth> hmm
11:33:04  <andythenorth> Iron Horse broke collisions
11:33:19  <andythenorth> is that because I’ve got hax
11:33:20  <andythenorth> ?
11:35:07  <andythenorth> also
11:35:07  <andythenorth> eh?
11:35:09  <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of collitsions?
11:35:19  <Eddi|zuHause> -t
11:35:24  <andythenorth>
11:35:29  <Eddi|zuHause> "it doesn't work" is not a bug report
11:35:33  <andythenorth> I’d keep the t incidentally
11:35:38  <andythenorth> looks nicer
11:36:43  <Eddi|zuHause> that seems like an expected outcome to me
11:36:49  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing "broken"
11:37:15  <Eddi|zuHause> it's the way that trains like to drive halfway over the edge at end-of-line
11:37:31  <andythenorth> and here I was thinking it was my fauly
11:37:33  <andythenorth> fault *
11:37:34  <Eddi|zuHause> like in the old days you could crash AI trains with a depot at the end of their stations
11:37:41  <andythenorth> ah the good old days
11:38:12  <andythenorth> also
11:38:13  <andythenorth> “It seems to me that the point of a Game Script is not really for fixing gameplay mechanics."
11:38:20  <andythenorth> ^ surely that’s exactly what GS is for?
11:38:25  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, this setup should also "break" signal behaviour
11:38:50  <Eddi|zuHause> as in, consider both tracks as one signal block and prevent the second train from entering
11:42:53  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, actually I think the poster there is right: if two incompatible tracks touch, the vehicles should not be able to crash
11:43:27  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe. but the behaviour has always been like this
11:43:33  <planetmaker> the problem with the setup is "what's compatible". May sound easy, but has tricky bits for sure
11:44:31  <Eddi|zuHause> but even with real trains, there is a distance between the start of the engine, and the first wheel, which can overhang this railtype gap
11:45:52  <Eddi|zuHause> it's also possible that the train was blindly following the track reservation, without checking the railtype, which would be a bug.
11:46:36  <argoneus> ayyy
11:47:18  <andythenorth> or that one train entered from an unsignalled section
11:47:37  <andythenorth> or ignore signals was used
11:48:21  <andythenorth> also, we should just fix payment rates
11:48:28  <andythenorth> so we can at least have a new kind of post about it
11:48:38  <andythenorth> just flatten it
11:48:50  <andythenorth> so that foamers can pop up and complain that it’s not realistic
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12:00:42  <supermop> sounds like a plan
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12:05:38  <andythenorth> meh
12:05:44  <andythenorth> why is nforenum whining?
12:05:53  <andythenorth> nothing interesting changed :P
12:06:00  <Eddi|zuHause> not up to date?
12:06:10  <Eddi|zuHause> something changed that you forgot?
12:06:35  <Eddi|zuHause> reading the error message sometimes helps :p
12:12:32  <Alberth> sometimes they just confirm what you already know, or they add to the confusion :p
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12:18:19  <andythenorth> I’d better actually read the error I guess
12:18:21  <andythenorth> le sigh
12:18:50  <andythenorth> frigging language updates
12:18:56  <andythenorth> /!!Warning (179): Offset 2: Language 66 is not defined.
12:18:57  <andythenorth> eh?
12:19:01  <andythenorth> can I just suppress it
12:19:23  <Alberth> no actual errors?
12:20:42  <Alberth>  lists it as Latin
12:21:09  <Eddi|zuHause> that points to "not up to date"
12:21:16  <andythenorth> k ta
12:21:49  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea if it was ever actually updated for the new language
12:22:56  <andythenorth> commit 986 claims to
12:23:06  <andythenorth> —version shows me NFORenum trunk r986 - Copyright (C) 2004-2013 by Dale McCoy
12:23:50  <andythenorth>
12:26:15  * andythenorth wonders what bundles is showing
12:26:34  <andythenorth>
12:26:36  <andythenorth> same issue
12:26:40  <andythenorth> ho ho
12:26:53  * andythenorth considers suppressing it
12:27:26  <andythenorth> Supercheese: does Latin work for Iron Horse?
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12:30:26  <Eddi|zuHause> in my makefile it looks like this: scripts/    $(_V)-nforenum $@ -w147,109,170
12:30:32  <Wolf01> hello
12:30:36  <Alberth> hi hi
12:30:56  <Eddi|zuHause> the "-" suppresses breaking of the compile for non-0 error codes, and the -wXXX suppresses certain warnings
12:31:17  <Eddi|zuHause> so you'd add 179 there
12:32:03  <andythenorth> I am more blase:                      '--warning-disable=100,109,111,147,170,172,204',
12:32:14  <andythenorth> the warnings were of little use so far
12:32:38  <andythenorth> it’s no longer 2009
12:32:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i've apparently not had the other ones
12:33:43  <andythenorth> I am wary of suppressing 179 in case Latin is actually borked
12:33:49  <andythenorth> but I cba to test :P
12:34:10  <Eddi|zuHause> takes like 10 seconds...
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12:45:01  <Alberth> wasn't there some weird .nforenum file in the home directory that may be old?
12:45:26  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly
12:46:52  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: anyway, that compile log says it's using grfcodec r979, which is, according to my maths, older than r986
12:47:48  <Alberth> so useful to have revision numbers that you can actually relate to each other :)
12:47:58  <NGC3982> Morning.
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12:48:11  <Alberth> mornink
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12:59:05  <andythenorth> turns out I’m awesome at reading latin
12:59:18  <andythenorth> as long as I know the english version of what I’m reading
12:59:27  <andythenorth> so IH works with Latin
12:59:32  <andythenorth> so nforenum is borked?
13:06:33  <Alberth> your version is, was fixed in r986 according to the commit log
13:09:29  <supermop> hmm MEL-CMH-MEL or MEL-CMH-SYD?
13:10:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i vote for CHILI-CON-CARNE.
13:10:52  <supermop> i wonder if i can attend new years eve party after about 25 hours of flying
13:11:16  <Alberth> unless you're the pilot, you can sleep along the way :)
13:11:54  <supermop> if i get the 787 between mel and lax likely
13:11:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't trust a pilot that has been flying for 25 hours straight :p
13:12:18  <supermop> dont think ill sleep on a 777
13:12:25  <Eddi|zuHause> what's CMH anyway?
13:12:37  <supermop> columbus Ohio
13:12:53  <Eddi|zuHause> what would anyone want there?
13:12:55  <supermop> code for Columbus Municipal Hanger
13:13:05  <supermop> parents
13:13:24  <andythenorth> so the compile of nforenum is borked?
13:13:36  <Eddi|zuHause> and why would you fly halfway around the world for that?
13:13:45  <andythenorth> anyone else reproduce these errors with IH?
13:13:48  <andythenorth> or can we update bundles?
13:13:49  <supermop> who did not want to come to side of the earth where is 30+ degrees for christmas
13:13:56  <Alberth> andythenorth: ?  latin support was added in r986
13:14:03  <andythenorth> I know :)
13:14:08  <andythenorth> I pasted the commit earlier
13:14:12  <andythenorth> nforenum disagrees
13:14:23  <andythenorth> or I have weird path crap and multiple nforenums (possible)
13:14:37  <supermop> not much more expensive than going to ORD
13:14:45  <andythenorth> safest to update bundles
13:14:55  <andythenorth> then we can rule out Eandythenorth
13:16:39  <andythenorth> also it would be nice if whatever has broken ‘rescan newgrfs’ wasn't
13:16:47  <andythenorth> it’s tedious quitting ottd to test a grf
13:17:00  <andythenorth> today seems to be yak-shaving day
13:17:08  <andythenorth> all I wanted to do was put another wagon into Iron Horse :)
13:18:50  <supermop> yak wagon?
13:18:59  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: loads of "Warning: Found sprite 145 looking for sprite 14031."
13:19:14  <andythenorth> interesting
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13:19:47  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: which warning num?
13:19:57  <andythenorth> I don’t have that, which suggests it’s suppressed
13:20:09  <Eddi|zuHause> or i am in the wrong branch?
13:20:52  <andythenorth> I’m in default
13:21:00  <andythenorth> at r941
13:21:22  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i was probably in partial_compile
13:21:48  <Eddi|zuHause> Multiprocessing disabled: (NO_MP=True) <-- man that takes ages
13:22:01  <andythenorth> typing it? o_O
13:22:07  <andythenorth> or compiling with that flag?
13:22:25  <andythenorth> I had to default to off, it DoSes other people’s systems
13:22:30  <andythenorth> rude
13:23:24  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway
13:23:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Linking nfo
13:23:31  <Eddi|zuHause> 26.03s
13:23:36  <Eddi|zuHause> no warnings whatsoever
13:24:12  <Eddi|zuHause> "no rule to make docs/license.txt"
13:25:50  <andythenorth> suggests I have multiple nforenums
13:25:51  <andythenorth> boring
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13:27:09  <Eddi|zuHause> like Alberth said, try checking if ~/.nforenum exists
13:27:43  <andythenorth> yes it does
13:27:47  <andythenorth> outdated .dat files?
13:27:49  <Eddi|zuHause> remove that
13:28:27  <andythenorth> no errors
13:28:35  <andythenorth> and nforenum re-created that dir
13:28:41  <andythenorth> which presumably is intended
13:28:46  <peter1138> That sneaky stealth directory...
13:29:04  <peter1138> I didn't understand the point of it, seeing as nforenum apparently has all the data it needs anyway.
13:29:09  <andythenorth> would be ok if ‘make install’ sorted it out
13:29:22  <andythenorth> still that was a fun waste of time eh? :)
13:30:39  <andythenorth> now I just need to figure out why my grf is invalid as far as ottd is concerned :P
13:30:48  <andythenorth> fun how things break without being touched
13:32:28  * andythenorth is probably about to find out the pitfalls of partial compiling
13:33:30  <andythenorth> lesson learned
13:37:20  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, it doesn't recreate that dir here
13:37:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i still have a .nforenum~ from 2010, but no .nforenum
13:37:57  <andythenorth> wonder if it’s an os x thing
13:38:18  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it's a compile option that i configured away
13:39:10  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i can only imagine someone meant for it to be a testing ground without recompiling nforenum
13:39:35  <Eddi|zuHause> which is somewhat pointless as it's binary data
13:41:05  <Eddi|zuHause> "turkish biology schoolbooks replace pictures of human genitalia with ducklings and fluffy polar bears"
13:42:14  <Eddi|zuHause>
13:42:59  <Eddi|zuHause> some news messages you really wonder whether they are actually true
13:44:13  <Alberth> quite likely it is
13:44:27  <andythenorth> wonder if I can pass a tank car off as a steel torpedo car
13:44:31  <andythenorth> without much drawing :P
13:44:39  <Eddi|zuHause> rather not.
13:45:15  <Alberth> in the latter, the torpedo would come first, and then the driver, right?
13:47:47  <andythenorth> :P
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13:57:53  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: or perhaps adding the option to nforenum to new extensions without needing to upgrade?
13:58:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: in any case, it's probably a misguided concept and produces more harm than good
13:58:55  <Alberth> in the extreme case, nforenum would never change, just the data is updated
13:59:05  <Alberth> I agree it's a wrong solution :)
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16:46:04  <andythenorth> so
16:46:06  <andythenorth> maglevs?
16:46:10  <andythenorth> or some other futurisms?
16:47:04  <andythenorth> or leave it be?  Iron Horse brit roster has 155mph electric loco from 1990
16:47:20  <andythenorth> can haul pax / mail / express freight cargos
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16:50:17  <Alberth> lagmevs?   what happened to pellezins?
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16:56:03  <andythenorth> hover-train?
17:00:26  <Alberth> fine by me, you don't need those ugly maglev paths, just flat concrete will do
17:00:55  <Alberth> maybe with something in the center for making it look better
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17:11:18  <andythenorth> trying to avoid drawing
17:11:29  * andythenorth wonders if anyone has drawn good futuristic tracks
17:11:32  <andythenorth> or I could just ignore it
17:11:37  <andythenorth> I don’t play beyond about 2000 anyway
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17:18:35  <Alberth> that also works :)
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17:22:14  <Wolf01> my mind is assembling a game which is a mix from empire earth, sim city and transport tycoon, I think I need to do something to keep my mind busy with other things
17:23:46  <Alberth> draw some futuristic pixels ?
17:24:05  <Wolf01> I'm not able to draw
17:24:23  <Alberth> ha!
17:24:57  <Alberth> open a paint program, take the plot single pixel tool, and click at the canvas
17:25:25  <Alberth> while not like and not bored: improve
17:25:35  <Alberth> publish
17:26:38  <Alberth> there is no entry level quality standard other than having at least 1 pixel non-transparent
17:28:13  <Wolf01> I could draw some isometric boxes, isometric boxes are simple
17:29:00  <Wolf01> this is already too complex for me
17:29:44  <Wolf01> and I don't know how to texure or to shade
17:31:59  <Alberth> just draw pixels with a lighter colour :)
17:33:47  <Alberth> I can't draw either, but I do it just for fun:
17:37:37  <Wolf01> nice
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17:50:34  <andythenorth> herp
17:50:37  <andythenorth> drawing is so easy
17:50:40  <andythenorth> even andythenorth can do it
17:50:43  <andythenorth> it’s only practice
17:50:45  <andythenorth> and rules
17:51:19  <andythenorth> and the ability to not get bored or hate drawing
17:51:44  <andythenorth> it’s probably harder than coding when coding is easy
17:52:06  <andythenorth> and easier than coding when coding is actually digging through a boatload of abstraction and dependencies that are subtly somehow misconfigured or broken
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18:03:57  <Wolf01> I'm good with ideas, not really good at realising them :P
18:33:45  <Eddi|zuHause> "<Alberth> lagmevs?   what happened to pellezins?" <-- the "Schienenzeppelin" was driving around germany in the 1930s
18:34:56  <Alberth> not very futuristic in our eyes, but looks nice
18:35:28  <Eddi|zuHause> * andythenorth wonders if anyone has drawn good futuristic tracks <-- i kinda liked SMITS for maglev tracks
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18:35:50  <andythenorth> bit beige
18:35:53  <andythenorth> but looks ok
18:36:33  <andythenorth> hmm
18:36:39  <andythenorth> foobar did transrapid
18:36:49  <andythenorth> which makes it easy for foobar to put it in Termite :D
18:36:52  <andythenorth>
18:37:39  <Eddi|zuHause> it's just terrible with the fake elevation...
18:38:29  <andythenorth> :P
18:54:15  <peter1138> heh yeah
19:17:17  <peter1138> Okay, tumble drier fixed. That was a bit of a bitch.
19:18:59  <andythenorth> use a hammer
19:19:10  <peter1138> Almost.
19:19:28  <peter1138> Ah shit, I didn't replace a cable tie :S
19:19:42  <peter1138> Well, fuck that, I'm not taking it apart again.
19:39:45  <andythenorth> hmm
19:40:13  <andythenorth> partially evacuated tubes + maglev + linear induction propulsion
19:40:17  <andythenorth> the hyperloop thing
19:40:27  <andythenorth> not really trains though, more like pipelines
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20:12:02  <dreck> had to ask, I know that roads can change over time but can you do something similar for rail sprites or its not on the agenda atm?
20:14:30  <Eddi|zuHause> the same way that it doesn't work on roads is available for rails as well
20:16:14  <peter1138> errr
20:16:18  <peter1138> roads can change over time?
20:16:44  <dreck> peter..yeah at least one townset had different pavement/lightpost sprites over different decades
20:16:52  <dreck> I'm not sure what the coder would had called it tho
20:17:35  <frosch123> peter1138: the reload game action7 method
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20:20:21  <dreck> frosch ah, makes sense to me now. thanks
20:21:07  <frosch123> dreck: anyway, you can change a lot more about railtypes
20:22:20  <andythenorth> what shall I call my pipeline grf?
20:22:23  <andythenorth> earthworm?
20:22:51  <Alberth> moneymaker
20:22:54  <frosch123> basilisk?
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20:23:07  <frosch123> you turn to stone when looking at it
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20:23:21  <Alberth> whoneedstrains
20:23:51  <dreck> frosch mm so I guess it did seem plausible to have a wooden look up to a certain date then only build concrete one afterward (just saying)
20:23:53  <frosch123> trainsarebadfeature? :p
20:24:11  <Supercheese> Apparently, spaces between words are a bad feature
20:24:16  <dreck> andy...hmm pipeline? like as in that "pipe" train grf or just as dumb ground objects?
20:24:16  <frosch123> dreck: there are many railtrack sets with varying railtypes
20:24:48  <frosch123> just check them, some allow building tracks with different speed limits and stuff
20:28:05  <dreck> I'm not so partial to the nutrack concept but to our own choices :)
20:29:28  <andythenorth> just like the PIPE grf
20:29:33  <andythenorth> except with reduced number of trains
20:30:26  <dreck> mm well I dunno what I would had called it then sorry :)
20:33:05  <peter1138> Foamer's Delight
20:44:43  <dreck> heh
20:45:39  <andythenorth> leech
20:45:42  <andythenorth> also
20:45:44  <andythenorth> bloody offsets
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20:50:51  <andythenorth> just liquid pipelines?  Or capsule transport too?
20:51:02  <andythenorth> oh the rest of you think they’re silly :)
20:51:03  <andythenorth> nvm
20:51:27  <frosch123> i don't think yeti fit into pipelines
20:51:42  <Supercheese> Soylent Brown is YETIs
20:51:46  <Supercheese> or Orange
20:51:49  <dreck> andy well tbh pipe isn't some kind of vehicle so :)
20:53:22  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: this new transport type, is it ‘quantum’ or ‘continous’? o_O
20:53:44  <Eddi|zuHause> quantum
20:55:09  <andythenorth> maybe we should call it QuantumTransport then
20:56:00  <andythenorth> so to get 1t delivered over 50 tiles, I need to put 51t in?
20:56:07  <andythenorth> and 50t is ‘in transit’?
20:59:25  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
20:59:51  <Eddi|zuHause> that is generally how pipelines work :)
21:01:12  <andythenorth> it adds an interesting limitation on very long routes
21:01:26  <andythenorth> limitation / initial impediment
21:01:40  <Eddi|zuHause> of course, the amount of cargo in each quantum, the length of each quantum and/or the time between quantums can be adjusted by the newgrf
21:01:47  <andythenorth> maybe we should call it PipeMania
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21:02:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i played a game like that a while ago
21:07:37  <Supercheese> blarg, Silicon Valley translations are still being strange
21:07:48  <Supercheese> Eints has not added the proper Cases to the lang file
21:07:56  <Supercheese> thus I cannot use accusative, dative, etc.
21:08:28  <Eddi|zuHause> you have to prepare the cases in newgrfs so they match with the openttd cases
21:08:35  <Supercheese> Not a grf; gamescript
21:08:45  <Supercheese> also, I have no direct control over that in eints
21:09:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose game scripts need that also
21:09:10  <Supercheese> however it has worked fine for grfs, such as
21:09:28  <Supercheese> GS seem to be handled differently
21:10:55  <frosch123> Supercheese: game script translations neither support cases nor genders
21:11:04  <Supercheese> well, that is poopy
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21:11:34  <Eddi|zuHause> that does seem like a bit of an oversight
21:11:45  <frosch123> nope, it's actually quite hard to add
21:12:06  <Supercheese> With all the {STRING} commands referencing cargoes and whatnot, cases are required...
21:17:58  <andythenorth> hmm
21:18:07  <andythenorth> only two tank wagons in Iron Horse
21:18:09  <andythenorth> 1860 and 1964
21:18:12  <andythenorth> oh well
21:18:46  <dreck> heh funny I was looking at the wiki and thinking 'a bit too few locomotives over a 100 year span?'
21:19:44  <andythenorth> in Iron Horse?
21:19:47  <andythenorth> or something else?
21:20:01  <dreck> iron horse
21:20:05  <andythenorth> by design
21:20:08  <andythenorth> there’s enough
21:20:15  <andythenorth> we originally intended 16 or so
21:20:21  <andythenorth> but a few more got added...
21:20:50  <andythenorth> 28 is definitely more than 16 :o
21:20:54  <Supercheese> too many dps locomotives and healer locomotives, not enough tanks
21:21:12  <Supercheese> oh wagons*
21:21:12  <andythenorth> eh?
21:21:14  <Supercheese> not locos
21:21:17  <Supercheese> joke fail
21:21:20  <andythenorth> ha
21:21:21  <andythenorth> :)
21:22:05  <Supercheese> dreck messed me up with "locomotives"
21:22:06  <dreck> at least I hope the 2nd livestock car is available for a long period of time
21:22:11  <andythenorth> forever
21:22:15  <andythenorth> or so
21:22:40  * andythenorth checks what model life is set to
21:22:46  <dreck> andy nice..that was one buggerup with the ukrs set re a long period of no availability and even when it came back again it was still a bit spotty
21:23:15  <andythenorth> known issue :)
21:23:33  <andythenorth> Iron Horse is kind UKRS / UKRS 2, with some learnings
21:23:40  <andythenorth> half the sprites are Pikka’s :P
21:23:56  <andythenorth> the wagon types are nicked from Pineapple
21:23:57  <dreck> one small question tho...would the brakevan be autoreplaceable with non-brakevan wagon?
21:24:01  <andythenorth> no, I tried
21:24:05  <andythenorth> ottd can’t handle that
21:24:09  <andythenorth> quite annoying
21:24:14  <andythenorth> 'quite'
21:24:20  <andythenorth> ‘a bit’
21:24:52  <dreck> well heres a thought if you want: introduce another wagon id that is basically a 0hp/0t empty sprite with no speed limit
21:25:01  <andythenorth> flashing tail light
21:25:02  <dreck> that way autoreplace can basically "kill" the brakevan
21:25:13  <dreck> oh did uk have that too? well that works as well
21:25:20  <andythenorth> hmm
21:25:21  <Eddi|zuHause> <Supercheese> dreck messed me up with "locomotives" <-- "so'n dreck aber auch."
21:25:33  <andythenorth> opinions on that idea? ^^^
21:25:39  <dreck> but yeah I mean.. autoreplace old wagon with new wagon + autoreplace brakevan with an empty sprite or something
21:25:45  <andythenorth> given that autoreplace is shafted by brakevans
21:25:53  <dreck> that would make autoreplace still do its function more or less
21:27:08  <Eddi|zuHause> dreck: problem is, you can't sell empty sprite wagons in the depot
21:27:21  <Eddi|zuHause> also, empty sprite wagons can't have length of 0
21:27:23  <andythenorth> they’re a PITA to move around
21:27:24  <andythenorth> also
21:27:30  <andythenorth> even with length 1
21:27:39  <andythenorth> and in Iron Horse, min. length is 3
21:27:41  <dreck> eddi thats why you "draw" something in the depot-only sprite view
21:27:48  <dreck> same thing with the invisible locomotive idea if I recall right
21:28:22  <dreck> but andy hmm you may be right, shoot down that idea then
21:28:26  <dreck> was a good one tho I guess
21:28:40  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could just use the invisible engine then
21:29:01  <andythenorth> consist management :P
21:29:03  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i guess you can't replace a wagon with an engine
21:29:13  <dreck> eddi nope :->
21:30:34  <dreck> why is there no welsh locomotive in the narrow gauge list? or wrong country? :P heh heh
21:31:23  <andythenorth> the welsh ones are a bit small
21:31:31  <andythenorth> Dan used Irish stuff as inspiration
21:31:35  <dreck> ah ok
21:31:38  <andythenorth> even then, we’ve dibbled it
21:31:46  <andythenorth> it’s way faster and more powerful than it should be
21:32:12  <dreck> btw is metro just basically 3rd rail?
21:32:28  <andythenorth> yes
21:32:36  <andythenorth> the main thing is very high pax capacity
21:32:38  <dreck> so I'll guess thats the Southern unit from 1900?
21:32:42  <andythenorth> it’s made up
21:32:48  <andythenorth> designed for single tile stations
21:32:50  <dreck> ah ok
21:33:12  <dreck> tbh the Southern EMU was one I kinda liked due to its early date .. especially for short shuttles
21:33:43  <dreck> (footnote: Southern had a lot of 3rd rails down but war prevented them from getting the trainsets so steam still ran over electric terrority for many years)
21:33:51  <dreck> ;)
21:34:42  <dreck> at least its a good thing neither you or pikka bothered implenting any kind of brake restrictions in the grf :P
21:35:00  <dreck> could you imagine a player trying to figure out vaccum vs air brake :)
21:37:12  <andythenorth> rather not
21:38:31  <Eddi|zuHause> that's something for George :)
21:38:52  <dreck> btw near bottom of the forum screenshot of buy list .. theres a Combine Car .. is that really a dual-cargo wagon or just basically mail alone still?
21:39:26  <dreck> heh eddi
21:42:07  <andythenorth> combine is dual-cargo
21:42:12  <andythenorth> it’s a novelty item
21:42:16  <andythenorth> not much use really
21:42:18  <Eddi|zuHause> dreck: seriously, have you looked at the level of detail the xUSSR set is trying to model? :)
21:42:47  <andythenorth> combine car + chaplin tank = 1.0 tiles long
21:42:52  <dreck> andy well mail+good in one wagon ingame would be fun tbh :)
21:42:59  <dreck> usa had a lot of them anyhow
21:43:04  <andythenorth> 30 pax / 20 mail, 450hp
21:43:06  <dreck> xussr?
21:47:46  <Supercheese>
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21:50:18  <andythenorth> I should really finish something before starting a new grf :P
21:50:26  <andythenorth> also PIPE is good enough
21:51:41  <Eddi|zuHause> finishing things is totally overrated
21:52:11  <andythenorth> I should really make something adequately playable before starting a new grf
21:52:18  <dreck> heh
21:52:23  <andythenorth> or do that before I piss about with Iron Horse any more
21:52:28  <andythenorth> ‘eat your greens'
21:53:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Waldmeister? Soylent?
21:55:17  <andythenorth> cabbage
21:56:02  <Supercheese> Cabbage is NARS though
21:56:20  <Supercheese> hmm
21:56:39  <dreck> supercheese well its a good reuse for a F40PH without major cost :)
22:00:21  <dreck> supercheese mind you I think its not an isolated idea tho
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22:26:00  <andythenorth> someone should localise Iron Horse to English
22:26:23  <andythenorth> I’ve done it in US English, cos I prefer that
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22:34:42  <andythenorth> ho
22:35:25  <frosch123> what is big about that bus?
22:36:13  <andythenorth> well in about 1990 it was supposed to be the only one in the UK
22:36:26  <andythenorth> it was used by my school to ship us between two different school sites
22:39:55  <andythenorth> too much capacity for normal routes, so they stuck it on that run
22:40:02  <andythenorth> instead of 2 coaches
22:40:07  * andythenorth foamer moment
22:43:31  * andythenorth should go to bed
22:43:32  <andythenorth> :P
22:44:23  <dreck> well if you want to supersize THAT...
22:44:24  <andythenorth> bye
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22:44:27  <dreck> heh ok bye
22:44:30  <dreck> ah well
22:46:30  <dreck> tbh japan sure has a lot of quite big buses and other things
22:46:49  <frosch123> not sure how doubledecks compare to articulated busses
22:47:10  <Eddi|zuHause> double decks have traditionally very very low loading speed
22:47:19  <Eddi|zuHause> which is why most cities do not use them
22:47:24  <dreck> eddi depends how the stairs were designed
22:47:36  <frosch123> i guess doubledecks are for long distance, while articulated are only in-town
22:47:44  <dreck> mind you the early london bus had very wide open rear platform so upper and lower loading was about the same anyway
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22:48:29  <Eddi|zuHause> london and berlin (west) are the only places i know where they use double decker busses
22:50:37  <dreck> theres also this.....just in japan too apparently
22:50:56  <dreck> imagine they don't like twisty roads due to the limited attack angle the diagrams in middle would allow
22:51:50  <frosch123> that's a singledeck with lots of loading area
22:51:58  <frosch123> so, no public transport, but long distance
22:52:02  <dreck> mind you there was one frictious movie that had some kind of super-doubledeck bus with a bowling alley incuded onboard too .. don't recall what happened to the movie
22:52:45  <frosch123> busses in movies? i only recall some early sandra bullock movie
22:52:56  <frosch123> though i fail to remember the name
22:53:37  <frosch123> hmm "speed"?
22:53:57  <dreck>
22:54:05  <dreck> The Big Bus apparently...such a obvious name
22:54:25  <dreck> and better view
22:54:32  <dreck> that is one **** bus :)
22:54:36  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes
22:54:49  <frosch123> that looks like a trash movie for past 1am
22:55:36  <dreck> frosch heh btw it even used airplane-style "ladder truck" for to load the upper deck back at the terminal too :)
22:56:39  <Eddi|zuHause> if i ever saw that movie, i probably buried those memories
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22:57:09  <dreck> heh
22:57:40  <Eddi|zuHause> most busses in movies are probably american-style school busses
22:57:43  <dreck> btw theres one movie poster I actually like...
22:58:26  <dreck> the first text line at top says it all! :P
22:58:38  <dreck> and look at that monster truck already crushing at least one car heh
22:58:52  <dreck> almost looks like jackie chan in lower-right
22:59:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure i watched that one
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23:00:29  <frosch123> <- he, the big bus wiki actually links to that one
23:00:40  <frosch123> dreck: cannonball run is an incredible boring movie
23:01:36  <frosch123> i never understood why there were multiple parts
23:04:46  <dreck> I've only seen small parts of the two of them
23:04:57  <frosch123> <- wtf? largely paid by dutch government?
23:04:59  <dreck> especially a ferrari that was painted white .. then later got powerwashed to red
23:05:33  <dreck> weird idea frosch
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23:09:10  <dreck> btw there was actually this one old doubledeck bus modified for james bond stunt duty....
23:10:32  <dreck> ah I was too close..I was thinking "surely for uk it must be an old AEC?" and here we are
23:10:43  <dreck> it actually "lost" its upper deck :)
23:10:58  <frosch123> "live an let die" is one of my favorite movies actually
23:11:29  <dreck> its one I have never watched yet for some reason :-s
23:11:40  <dreck> I did see the specific bus scene somewhere else online tho
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23:13:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i think a lot of james bond movies i only half-watched
23:14:13  <dreck> frosch btw I've never really watched any harry potter movie at all (except for most of a particular early one) but I watched the Knight Bus scene online somewhere even then... that is one crazy *triple*deck bus ;)
23:14:25  <frosch123> i like all the roger moore ones
23:14:32  <dreck> alas the bus they used had some engine problem .. but they improvsed by including at least two of its backfire into the movie soundtrack :)
23:15:04  <frosch123> the sean connery ones are aged in comparison, and the more modern ones take themself too serious
23:16:18  <frosch123> no idea which potter movies i saw
23:16:31  <frosch123> likely the early ones, but they were not particulary good
23:16:35  <dreck>
23:16:36  <frosch123> i read the books though
23:16:46  <frosch123> the later ones even in english
23:17:30  <frosch123> dreck: why does that bus need so much space on the outside? wouldn't it be more useful inside?
23:18:39  <dreck> frosch I dunno. all I know is the movie view shows some cots onboard on the first floor so I expect it probably was a semi-sleeper bus service for wizards
23:18:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i watched the 2nd harry potter movie first, and then the first and third, and then i stopped
23:18:54  <dreck> considering that you had to be on the side of road holding out your wand for the bus to show up in view
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23:19:40  <frosch123> oh, i remember. for some reason the german translated books were a complete rip off
23:19:54  <frosch123> they cost twice as much as the english original
23:19:58  <frosch123> completely insane :p
23:20:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't had a book in ages
23:20:26  <frosch123> so, you are un-educated?
23:21:05  <frosch123> :p
23:21:37  <Eddi|zuHause> if the question is "do you have more or less than 100 books on your shelves?" then yes. :p
23:21:51  <frosch123> i counted them
23:22:13  <frosch123> well, not exactly counting
23:22:24  <frosch123> more estimating
23:22:35  <frosch123> but that came out with pretty much around 100
23:23:04  <frosch123> and then it came down to shades of books
23:23:11  <frosch123> like what bookish things do not count as books
23:23:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i have about 10 fictional books, 10 non-fictional books, 10 manuals and a bunch of scientific magazines
23:23:34  <Eddi|zuHause> the majority of the latter i haven't even looked into
23:23:52  <frosch123> i.e. number of pages would be more reliable
23:24:16  <frosch123> oi, i forgot the manuals
23:24:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never found a comfortable reading position
23:24:39  <frosch123> i have them stored elsewhere, likely another 100 books
23:25:25  <Eddi|zuHause> sitting at the desk is bad, lying on the back has no light, lying on the front is too much strain on shoulders, lying on the side has always one hand not free for holding the book
23:25:45  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you use a couch :)
23:26:05  <Eddi|zuHause> that has the exact same problems
23:26:06  <frosch123> and a specific reading light for the bed
23:26:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i also have that same trouble with using a laptop
23:26:34  <frosch123> uh, and why do you need two hands for a book?
23:26:51  <dreck> frosch...probably not reading it on a surface :)
23:26:56  <frosch123> one hand is enough for a novel
23:27:16  <Eddi|zuHause> one hand holding the book is fine, but then you at least need the other hand to turn the page
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23:27:46  <Eddi|zuHause> but sometimes the pages are acting up and you need to hold them on both sides
23:28:06  <Eddi|zuHause> or light shines through the back and you can't read things
23:28:31  <frosch123> i think you do not have the right type of light
23:28:53  <frosch123> the light source should be behind your shoulder
23:28:59  <Eddi|zuHause> why would i, when i don't read regularly :p
23:29:20  <frosch123> books are the second best thing after computers :)
23:47:48  * dreck has a variety of books and manuals here
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23:51:59  <Wolf01> 'night
23:52:06  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]

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