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00:04:34 <Wolf01> 'night 00:04:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:14:19 <Samu> hi 00:44:35 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-179-139.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:46:38 *** jinks [~jinks@2602:ffe8:102:213::1c:34ac] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 00:46:56 *** jinks [~jinks@2602:ffe8:102:213::1c:34ac] has joined #openttd 00:53:49 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.102.123] has joined #openttd 00:56:51 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-249-192.netvisao.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:20 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:06:51 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-4d082f36.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 01:27:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i have the feeling "deranged brony" [username on tt-f] is a bit redundant 01:45:54 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 01:56:55 *** shirish_ 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*** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.178.188] has joined #openttd 07:31:45 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 07:31:48 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:38:53 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 07:39:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 07:39:47 <andythenorth> o/ 07:50:18 <Alberth> hi hi 07:51:04 <Alberth> I promised to look at something, but I totally forgot what it was 07:51:20 <andythenorth> docs :) 07:51:31 <andythenorth> specifically the existing doc target in the makefile 07:51:45 <andythenorth> I wonder if itâs something where pm just knows the answer though 07:52:04 <andythenorth> I know makefiles have had a lot of changes since 2009, I wonder if FIRS one is just a fossil full of string 07:54:33 <V453000> y000 07:54:52 * andythenorth still has not had coffee 07:54:57 <andythenorth> and itâs nearly the middle of the day 07:55:17 <Alberth> /me gives andy a cup of coffee 07:55:38 <Alberth> hi V 07:58:16 <V453000> just trying to make a curved road texture from a straight road texture, isnt as simple asI thought XD 07:58:21 <Alberth> Makefiles got simplified a lot 07:58:24 <andythenorth> sunshare is really making no sense in forums 07:58:32 * Supercheese agrees 07:59:02 <andythenorth> thereâs ânot-native-Englishâ and thereâs âputting useless stuff in the forums" 07:59:20 * andythenorth canât think how to not be rude about it though 08:00:05 <Alberth> he just has absoloutely 0 clue about how things work 08:00:39 <V453000> andy half of the forum makes no sense, that isnt anything new :P 08:01:02 <Alberth> so he looks at it purely from the outside 08:02:19 <Alberth> which is a valid way of looking at things 08:04:12 <V453000> hm photoshop warp ftw :) 08:04:53 <Alberth> beats making pixels by hand :) 08:06:44 * andythenorth rethinks an economy 08:12:44 * andythenorth wonders if Vehicle Factory should accept petrol 08:12:51 <andythenorth> completely not realism, but eh 08:13:16 <Alberth> a little bit can be exaplained 08:14:07 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.178.245.228] has joined #openttd 08:14:08 <andythenorth> maybe as a boost cargo 08:14:26 <Alberth> sounds good + fun 08:14:54 <andythenorth> I am trying to make a nice set of cargo flows, but stick to an arbitrary limit on number of industries and cargos 08:14:57 <andythenorth> constraints are fun 08:15:10 <V453000> my factory accepts petrol, but that is because the cars are one use only, once the industry processes them with their limited petrol, they are demolished and thrown away ecologically, alongside with dying workers 08:15:16 <andythenorth> awesome 08:15:51 <andythenorth> pop quiz: whatâs better than a > 3 minute compile? 08:16:08 <V453000> 30 minute compile 08:16:18 <andythenorth> wrong 08:16:24 <andythenorth> a 1m 20s compile 08:18:54 <andythenorth> V453000: doesnât that compile drive you fricking insane? :D 08:19:02 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 08:19:09 <andythenorth> I make way too many typos in my code for that much compile time 08:21:49 <andythenorth> ho I broke the FIRS makefile 08:21:56 <Alberth> believe me, suddenly you'll get much more careful :) 08:22:00 <andythenorth> docs are only compiled if I call âmake docsâ target directly 08:23:38 <andythenorth> maybe docs has to be a dep for firs.grf or whatever? 08:23:52 <Alberth> andythenorth: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pnzxnoeln ok to remove Makefile.config ? 08:24:22 <andythenorth> if weâre happy to edit the Makefile, yes 08:24:37 <andythenorth> AIUI, the .config was there because the Makefile was not to be touched 08:24:40 <Alberth> depends on when you want to build docs 08:25:28 <andythenorth> feel free to commit makefile changes btw :) 08:25:28 <Alberth> hmm 08:25:34 *** streen [~streen@dslb-188-097-252-233.188.097.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #openttd 08:27:10 <Alberth> an alternative is to take the current Makefiles of the generic newgrf project, and use those 08:33:49 <andythenorth> Alberth: I do wonder if it would be easier to start from a better place :) 08:33:54 <andythenorth> instead of picking out old string 08:38:38 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:44:22 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3165 08:44:22 *** Guest3165 [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 08:54:31 <V453000> andythenorth: it doesnt exactly :P I have enough stuff to do while I wait for the compile 08:54:40 <V453000> and since rendering whole rawr now takes 20 hours, ... :) 08:55:07 <V453000> I just continue doing stuff when it compile, best thing 08:57:14 <andythenorth> your attention span is better than me 09:07:34 <V453000> xd 09:09:39 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@177.17.17.250] has joined #openttd 09:10:12 * andythenorth needs a chemical plant 09:10:26 <andythenorth> wonder where I can find sprites for that 09:10:59 <andythenorth> also, it breaks my constraint of 17 industries :| 09:13:39 <andythenorth> chemical plant? file:///Users/andy/Documents/OTTD_graphics/FIRS/firs_build/docs/html/industries.html#fertiliser_plant 09:13:54 <andythenorth> oops http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#fertiliser_plant 09:16:28 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.178.245.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:16:29 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 09:22:44 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@177.17.85.250] has joined #openttd 09:23:22 <supermop> chemical plant is a pretty nebulous concept 09:23:27 <supermop> could be anything 09:25:26 <supermop> bits of that and the plastic plant could look a good late 20th C one 09:27:51 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.17.17.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:27:53 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 09:29:19 <supermop> bits of machine shop with tanks/distilation columns for early 20th c 09:36:52 <andythenorth> breaks my rules 09:37:06 <andythenorth> basic economies have 18 cargos and 17 industries 09:37:18 <andythenorth> this one will have 17 cargos and 18 industries :P 09:37:49 <V453000> ... :) 09:39:17 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:39:36 <Wolf01> hi hi 09:39:48 <Alberth> moin 09:42:17 <supermop> need to pick abar to go to 09:43:52 <supermop> my iron ore mine in the desert is surrounded by a strip of grass 09:44:44 <andythenorth> yes 09:44:54 <andythenorth> a future FIRS will solve that for you 09:45:45 <supermop> also the quarry in the desert is full of water - which seems like would be more valuable than the stone 09:46:12 <andythenorth> less likely to be solved 09:47:13 <andythenorth> still, it does seem to make the grass grow nearby, eh? 09:48:03 <andythenorth> fruit plantations suck currently 09:48:05 <andythenorth> hmm 09:48:10 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:55:13 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.17.85.250] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC 1.9.6 Disequilibrium http://www.adiirc.com/] 09:55:37 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.17.85.250] has joined #openttd 09:59:26 * andythenorth considers Urban economy 09:59:40 <V453000> wtfizdat :D 09:59:41 <andythenorth> coffee, milk -> coffee shop -> latte 09:59:52 <V453000> asdf 10:00:05 <andythenorth> chemicals -> spray paint -> graffiti -> art shop 10:00:28 <V453000> well to be fair, toyland has one of the most interesting cargo systems of the original industries :P 10:00:34 <andythenorth> components -> factory -> apple store -> hipster 10:00:45 <andythenorth> hmm 10:00:50 * andythenorth considers a hipster economy 10:01:03 <andythenorth> except itâs not actually funny to mock hipsters, just boring and obvious :P 10:01:15 <V453000> produce as much stuff that nobody wants as you can? :D 10:01:34 <supermop> off to bar latere 10:02:38 *** shirish [~quassel@117.222.6.198] has joined #openttd 10:02:46 <andythenorth> so many possibilities 10:02:54 <andythenorth> so little time :P 10:03:10 * andythenorth steps away from chemical plant idea 10:03:21 <andythenorth> makes the chains too long for basic 10:04:02 <V453000> I still think the trading economy chart I made for you would do great :P 10:04:21 <andythenorth> where is it? 10:04:23 <andythenorth> ticket? 10:05:54 <V453000> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&start=3460#p1117925 10:06:38 <V453000> can be majorly extended ofc 10:06:59 <andythenorth> V453000: I like that it has only 4 industries 10:07:11 <andythenorth> might be good for really intense wtf cargo amount games 10:07:13 <V453000> it can have 16 :) 10:07:20 <V453000> or whatever number 10:07:27 <andythenorth> oh actually more than 4 10:07:40 <andythenorth> itâs about 12 10:07:44 <V453000> 4 are the processing "ports" here 10:07:52 <andythenorth> 6 primaries 10:07:55 <andythenorth> 2 town 10:08:00 <andythenorth> keep it safe 10:08:06 <andythenorth> not doing it now, but maybe later 10:08:08 <V453000> you can easily add another chain, e.g. 3 primaries which go to $factory, and that $factory goes to one of the ports 10:08:23 <andythenorth> I think itâs better small 10:08:26 <V453000> just trying to show what is an example of good system 10:08:44 <V453000> well, sure it could have a parameter saying how many chains there are :P 10:08:55 <V453000> small, larger, holyshitbig 10:09:01 <andythenorth> silly parameters 10:09:01 <V453000> while still having clear system 10:09:04 <V453000> winwin 10:09:35 <andythenorth> FIRS compile is now so much faster, I canât spend enough time talking bollocks while I wait :( 10:09:59 <V453000> XD 10:10:10 <andythenorth> hrm 10:10:12 <andythenorth> I dunno 10:10:27 <andythenorth> Vehicle Factory accepting petrol, some logical part of my brain is screaming NO NO NO 10:10:32 <andythenorth> but in game it looks ok 10:11:07 <V453000> will "YETI does it" help as a justification? :D 10:11:25 <andythenorth> umm 10:11:31 <andythenorth> might count against it actually :P 10:11:37 <andythenorth> no it helps 10:12:24 *** itsatacoshop247_ [~itsatacos@2601:9:1180:237:f16d:3c7a:3ff5:b6bc] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:12:26 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 10:14:48 <andythenorth> meh, in this economy, petrol and chemicals should just one cargo 10:14:51 <andythenorth> petrochemicals 10:14:55 <andythenorth> that is the problem 10:15:25 <andythenorth> petrol is doing nothing useful, itâs just there because the refinery produces it 10:15:40 <Eddi|zuHause> then remove it? 10:16:38 <V453000> call it refined products? 10:18:44 <andythenorth> eh, FIRS compile doesnât support removing a cargo in an economy for this kind of industry 10:18:47 <andythenorth> V453000: maybe 10:19:13 <V453000> xd 10:20:36 <andythenorth> eh, that means I have bugs :( 10:20:38 <andythenorth> already 10:21:00 <andythenorth> problem with deadlines 10:21:12 <andythenorth> abandoning refactoring in favour of making deadline 10:24:27 <andythenorth> bah 10:25:09 <andythenorth> this chain would work really well: chemicals, oil -> chemical processor -> refined products 10:25:12 <andythenorth> but for reasons 10:25:24 <andythenorth> FIRS implements chemicals as RFPR, which is also refined products 10:25:35 <andythenorth> so label is already claimed 10:26:24 <andythenorth> also, the guano mine is a primary, but I have it producing RFRP 10:26:38 <andythenorth> primary cargo isnât refined :P 10:26:45 <andythenorth> izz problems 10:27:42 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:51 <andythenorth> guano mine chemicals are NPK-ish (nitrates, phosphates, potash) 10:29:25 <andythenorth> dunno what name covers that other than âchemicals' 10:30:36 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no deadline. 10:30:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it's all in your mind 10:30:50 <andythenorth> eh, last week I was told to release already 10:31:03 <andythenorth> and that I was delaying unnecessarily 10:31:14 <V453000> LOL 10:31:15 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i said release before you break everything 10:31:24 <andythenorth> oh that ship had sailed :D 10:31:31 <V453000> :D 10:31:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but you've already broken everything 10:31:36 <andythenorth> yeah 10:32:49 *** TheDude [~Thed@2a02:2b88:2:1::1d73:1] has left #openttd [I'm a happy Miranda IM user! Get it here: http://miranda-im.org] 10:33:58 <andythenorth> so is there a composite term covering NPK that is dug out of the ground? 10:34:04 <andythenorth> or shall I just call it Nitrates? 10:35:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i really don't know what you're trying to model 10:35:28 <andythenorth> Guano Mine 10:35:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and even if i did, i don't know the english name of chemicals 10:35:46 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i mean the "big picture" 10:36:12 <Eddi|zuHause> why do you need to specialize it instead of just calling it "chemicals"? 10:36:21 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano#Composition 10:36:47 <andythenorth> because chemicals -> chemical processor -> chemicals is odd 10:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> then obviously a "guano mine" would produce "guano" 10:39:34 <andythenorth> this is a good conclusion 10:43:49 <b_jonas> andythenorth: would "fertilizer" be a good name? 10:44:29 <andythenorth> not for processing 10:44:33 <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/ROADZ1.png :D wip 10:44:36 <b_jonas> ok 10:44:38 <andythenorth> fertiliser -> refined products 10:44:40 <andythenorth> bit odd :) 10:48:14 <andythenorth> I should copout and call it a phosphate mine 10:48:23 <andythenorth> then it can be used in Canada and such also 10:51:12 <andythenorth> translators going to hate me :D 10:51:38 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 10:55:05 <andythenorth> hmm 10:55:08 <andythenorth> game already has potash 10:57:50 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:57:53 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 10:59:48 <andythenorth> Saltpeter? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niter 11:00:41 *** Progman [~progman@p57A185D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:02:56 <andythenorth> sounds antiquated :) 11:04:05 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-117-81.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:05:52 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_saltpeter_works_in_Tarapacá_and_Antofagasta 11:07:29 <andythenorth> I should probably call it Nitrates though, eh :( 11:07:38 <andythenorth> for dumbing-down reasons 11:12:21 <Alberth> I think I translated it as such already :) 11:13:22 <andythenorth> Saltpeter is more intriguing 11:13:35 <andythenorth> sounds like a Victorian novel 11:14:00 * andythenorth wonders how references like âVictorianâ work for non-English people 11:20:04 <Alberth> British empire ? 11:20:35 <andythenorth> yup 11:21:55 *** Midnight101 [~Midnight1@136-61.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 11:25:11 <peter1138> Brrr, coldded 11:26:46 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has joined #openttd 11:28:49 <andythenorth> donât go outside 11:28:50 <andythenorth> ever 11:31:58 <Midnight101> hes obviously just playing the snow climate 11:32:25 <andythenorth> V453000: nice lego roads youâve made 11:32:58 <andythenorth> http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100828160539/lego/images/9/93/6321-Road_Plates,_Curved.jpg 11:33:29 *** streen [~streen@dslb-188-097-252-233.188.097.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:38:11 <peter1138> It's cold indoors... 11:38:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 11:38:53 <V453000> lego roads :D 11:39:04 <peter1138> V453000, you can't include the one stop-line... 11:39:11 <peter1138> er... *white* not one... 11:39:26 <V453000> what why not 11:39:33 <peter1138> Drive side is changable. 11:39:39 <V453000> oh, good point 11:39:41 <V453000> thanks 11:39:49 <V453000> didnt realize that 11:39:55 <V453000> LEFT IS WRONG THOUGH 11:44:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 11:48:23 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00d497.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #openttd 11:49:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 11:49:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 11:49:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, "LEFT IS RIGHT" would be terrible :p 11:52:51 <Midnight101> TTD in the temperate climate is set in the UK, where driving on the left is the correct way. for good reason 11:53:50 <Eddi|zuHause> then how come the original game offered "drive on right" since the beginning? 11:54:10 <Midnight101> for the same reason it offered different currencies :P 11:54:16 <Midnight101> but still defaulted to GBP 11:54:33 <Eddi|zuHause> it also offered different town name sets 11:54:50 <Eddi|zuHause> no. it defaulted to DM :p 11:55:17 <krinn> funny: i've been told driving to left was because of military holding swords on their right and it prevent accident when they were passing by next to pedestrian 11:55:55 <Midnight101> Chris Sawyer was British, thats why :P 11:56:53 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, almost nothing in the game, except for the original vehicle names, suggests that the game is "set in the UK" 11:58:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and even that was gone when the obfuscated vehicle names were introduced 11:58:45 <V453000> I REMOVED THE STOP LINES ALREADY QUIT ARGUING 11:58:46 <V453000> :PPP 11:59:03 <Eddi|zuHause> NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR STOP LINES 11:59:08 <V453000> OH 11:59:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i think some road sets include stop signs, but they probably check the driving side with action7/9 11:59:49 <V453000> idk, but cba to do that 11:59:53 <V453000> either right or nothing :P 12:01:07 <Midnight101> https://wiki.openttd.org/Climates#Temperate 12:01:10 <Midnight101> :P 12:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> IT'S IN THE WIKI!! IT MUST BE TRUE!!! 12:03:18 <Midnight101> "I disagree, therefore i must be right" 12:04:02 <V453000> toyland is completely mature not just childs world 12:04:16 <frosch123> V453000: you can provide graphics for both left and right 12:04:31 <frosch123> grfs can check for roaddriving side, and select graphics 12:04:34 <Alberth> just add them both :) 12:04:39 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: somewhere inbetween LEGO and MLP? 12:04:50 <frosch123> same issue for signal side 12:05:19 <V453000> I know frosch123, Eddi said that :) 12:05:30 <V453000> MLP is utter horseshit 12:05:38 <Midnight101> Ponyshit 12:05:52 <V453000> LEGO is good stuff as andythenorth and other brick nerds prove 12:05:58 <frosch123> what? eddi said something that makes sense? 12:06:21 <Eddi|zuHause> more often than not. 12:07:21 <V453000> frog is left 12:07:28 <supermop> too often 12:07:50 <supermop> goodnight 12:15:57 <peter1138> frosch123, he's doing a baseset though, I thought. 12:16:25 <frosch123> yes, the extra grf also needs to check signalside to provide semaphore graphics 12:16:54 <frosch123> ogfx extra checks dozen of settings to provide different graphics :p 12:20:37 <Eddi|zuHause> action7/9 is static-safe, so can be used in baseset 12:28:39 <peter1138> Oh right, forgot there was a mandatory newgrf in basesets :p 12:30:30 <V453000> hm :) 12:32:59 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest3178 12:33:04 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:37:54 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3209.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:38:35 *** Guest3178 [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:55:11 *** urdh [urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: boom] 12:58:20 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 13:04:07 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 13:08:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:09:02 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 13:22:48 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:22:50 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 13:25:55 <andythenorth> nitrates, cargo unit 13:25:59 <andythenorth> tons, litres? 13:26:07 <andythenorth> I think theyâre typically mineral powder 13:26:09 <andythenorth> not liquid 13:26:41 <V453000> what the fuck is that even XD 13:27:43 <frosch123> horsepee 13:28:10 <andythenorth> http://gosouthamerica.about.com/library/blChihistpix1j.htm 13:28:58 <andythenorth> http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=515774&nseq=0 13:29:04 <V453000> ._. 13:29:26 <andythenorth> http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=465784&nseq=19 13:29:58 <V453000> cute pictures but how does that illustrate a cargo? :D 13:30:16 <andythenorth> dunno 13:30:41 <frosch123> well, what's your nitrate source? 13:30:48 <frosch123> if it's a mine -> raw tons 13:30:54 <frosch123> if it's a farm -> liquid litres 13:31:41 <andythenorth> itâs a mine 13:31:45 <andythenorth> tons 13:31:48 <frosch123> anyway, i prefer the name "fertilizer" 13:31:57 <andythenorth> http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/358679/350wm/T8500132-Maria_Elena_Nitrate_Mine,_Chile-SPL.jpg 13:31:58 <frosch123> that's how railroad tycoon called it 13:33:05 <andythenorth> neat industry http://www.nileguide.com/blog/files/2011/06/santa-laura-nitrate-mine-3.jpg 13:35:56 <andythenorth> frosch123: so what other nmlc speed ups do you have in your back pocket? o_O 13:38:00 <frosch123> 1) reading of sprite cache files, actually doing it just now 13:38:09 <frosch123> 2) speed up of "tile compression" by factor 2 13:38:17 <frosch123> 3) multi-threaded encoding 13:38:43 <andythenorth> great :) 13:38:44 <frosch123> 4) parser-cache, but likely not worth it in bigger picture 13:38:50 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:39:29 <frosch123> other stuff is designed, but not even experimentally coded 13:39:57 <V453000> :> 13:40:03 <V453000> me is looking forward 13:42:25 <andythenorth> < 1 min FIRS, Iâd be very happy 13:43:40 <frosch123> well, all grfs are different :p most near-future benefits are for grfs with big and many real sprites 13:43:52 <frosch123> grfs with more code than sprites have to wait :) 13:44:27 <andythenorth> I can improve the FIRS code to get a 20s compile of a subset of industries 13:44:36 <andythenorth> between that, and a 1 min full-grf compile, itâs good 13:49:01 <V453000> :> 13:49:06 <V453000> MOAR PICTURZ 14:02:29 *** deniz1a [~kvirc@88.251.115.211] has joined #openttd 14:03:14 <deniz1a> why is it beneficial to transport your cargo far away than to bring it to the closest destination? 14:03:37 <deniz1a> that's counterintuitive, idn't it? 14:04:28 <deniz1a> let's say you have a train full of coal ready to go and you have two power stations linked with tracks 14:04:36 <frosch123> no, your car is also more efficient on long routes 14:04:47 <michi_cc> Only if you believe you are buying and selling cargo, but your aren't. You're payed for the transport, not the goods. 14:05:06 <frosch123> you are paid for average cargo speed 14:05:11 <deniz1a> you should bring it to the closer one and get more profit 14:05:25 <deniz1a> ok 14:05:27 <frosch123> and the average speed is better on longer routes, since loading has less impact 14:05:47 <deniz1a> but why would the seller of that cargo pay you more to transport it farther away than is necessary* 14:06:05 <frosch123> because they ordered it 14:06:20 <frosch123> as michi said, they do not buy the coal from you 14:06:31 <deniz1a> but the cargo has no specific destination? it just has to be dumped at a power station, doesnt matter which one 14:06:55 <deniz1a> i know but the seller of the coal pays you for transport 14:07:17 <frosch123> well, play with cargo distribution/destinattions then 14:07:23 <frosch123> then you won't get anything to transport 14:07:37 <deniz1a> then each cargo has a specific destination? 14:08:09 <frosch123> there are patches where you get only 1% of cargo to transport, if your network does not offer enough/sutiable connections 14:08:10 <Midnight101> denizla, if you can only transport your goods to a place, you have to sell your goods to that place 14:09:16 <deniz1a> but it is beneficial to bring your cargo as far as possible once you have it, isn't it? 14:09:25 <frosch123> no 14:09:53 <frosch123> your task is to transport cargo as fast as possible 14:10:08 <frosch123> "fast" as in "distance per time" 14:10:24 <deniz1a> ok but let's say you have the same train 14:10:40 <deniz1a> one time you bring the same cargo to a close destination and then to a far away one 14:11:35 <frosch123> if loading is instant, then both trains get about the same 14:11:48 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 14:12:06 <frosch123> "same" as in "same per year" 14:12:11 <deniz1a> ok 14:12:25 <frosch123> of course the far-distance one makes more per trip, but the short-distance one makes more trips per year 14:12:37 <Midnight101> actually you get paid a specific amount per 20 squares covered 14:12:51 <Midnight101> this amount decreases over time from loading to unloading\ 14:15:07 <Midnight101> and different goods are worth more depending on how long you take to transport them 14:15:31 <deniz1a> ok. is there a way to make each cargo have a specific destination? 14:15:50 <deniz1a> so you have to take it to a specific power station for example and not just any one 14:16:06 <frosch123> search for "cargo destinations" 14:16:17 <frosch123> you will find some ancient forum topics 14:16:29 <frosch123> don't confuse it with "cargo distribution" though 14:16:32 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 14:17:31 <deniz1a> ok thanks 14:17:36 <Midnight101> denizla, you could make it your own personal challenge to deliver only to the closest receiving potential destination 14:34:09 <deniz1a> can you see how long a train took to deliver its last cargo? or the average delivery time? 14:34:43 <deniz1a> average loading time would also be nice 14:39:09 <frosch123> if you have 1.5 then cargodist will automatically record a timetable 14:41:13 <deniz1a> oh ok. i'll try that. is it stable? 14:41:32 <frosch123> it's beta 14:45:06 <deniz1a> where can I find the changelog for 1.5 beta? 14:45:18 <deniz1a> http://hu.binaries.openttd.org/binaries/releases/1.5.0-beta1/changelog.txt is empty 14:45:28 <frosch123> there is a link in the newspost 14:45:32 <frosch123> or you can look on the wiki 14:48:40 *** psusi [~psusi@72-238-77-169.res.bhn.net] has joined #openttd 14:49:22 <psusi> so I have set up a two track one way loop with two trains circling to transport coal from the mine to a power plant... I'm constantly picking up all of the coal at the station, but the mine complains that I'm only transporting 48% of its output and its max output drops.. wtf? 14:49:33 <psusi> how am I supposed to transport all of their output if they won't give it to me? 14:49:56 <deniz1a> yeah it was right on the main page 14:50:11 <michi_cc> http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Station_rating 14:54:03 <psusi> wait, so the station loses rating if the trains pull in too fast? 14:56:14 <andythenorth> just use FIRS instead 14:56:20 <andythenorth> it has a stupid 100% station rating option 14:56:24 <andythenorth> problem goes away 14:57:12 *** deniz1a [~kvirc@88.251.115.211] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:58:35 <psusi> I'm confused... it looks like it isn't possible to get more than 67% station rating, at least if you don't count the temporary boost from advertising 14:58:52 <frosch123> you need a faster engine 14:59:16 <frosch123> you get 100% if you build a statue and your trani does 200 km/h, and there is always a train loading 15:00:04 <frosch123> 67% is the normal rating if you have no statue 15:00:05 <andythenorth> so use maglev 15:00:08 <andythenorth> and build a station 15:00:11 <andythenorth> statue * 15:00:18 <psusi> ahh... and how much do you need to take the full output of the industry? 15:01:01 <frosch123> 100% 15:01:17 <psusi> oh shite 15:01:37 <frosch123> you don't get 100% in early game without cheating :) 15:01:49 <psusi> so... early in the game, before you get the high speed fancy trains... it's impossible to grow an industry without constantly doing advertising campeigns? 15:02:19 <frosch123> advertising does not work particulary well for industries 15:02:32 <frosch123> it only affects stations near the town center, so usually not industries 15:02:41 <andythenorth> eh, why am I allocating IDs :P 15:02:42 <psusi> well it seems to be the only way to boost the station rating other than building a statue 15:02:47 <andythenorth> code should manage IDs for me 15:02:51 <andythenorth> that has to change 15:03:17 <andythenorth> I could just let nml do it? 15:03:22 <andythenorth> is nml trustworthy? 15:03:23 <frosch123> andythenorth: savegame compatibility? 15:03:25 <psusi> well yea, so if the industry is far from a town center, then it is impossible to get the station rating high enough to transport enough cargo to make the industry grow? that seems fscked up 15:03:47 <frosch123> andythenorth: if yuo assign them automatically, they change when reordering code 15:03:49 <andythenorth> frosch123: yeah. But itâs flawed thinking by me :) If an industry or cargo is added/changed/removed, assume savgame is broken 15:04:17 <andythenorth> my assumption was that nml assigns them on something like parse order 15:04:30 <andythenorth> or alphabetised 15:04:44 <frosch123> i think it does on parse order 15:04:59 <andythenorth> I think I might manage my own locally 15:05:01 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3209.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 15:05:07 <frosch123> but cargos are tricky in any case, due to pax/mail magic 15:05:23 <andythenorth> assuming python imports can be trusted to be deteministic for any given order, I can maintain order as much as I need 15:05:29 <andythenorth> dunno if that holds though 15:05:58 <andythenorth> ah actually nml has no idea about FIRS economies, so Iâll manage IDs in any case 15:06:07 <frosch123> manually assigned ids also make it easier for add-on grfs :) 15:06:21 <andythenorth> yeah, they are going to have a sad time :) 15:06:24 <frosch123> and for try-hard game scripts 15:06:33 <andythenorth> IDs are already overlapping 15:06:57 <andythenorth> unless the GS also checks economy parameter, and maintains a mapping, itâs out of luck :) 15:07:18 <frosch123> there are gs with 32 settings to configure behaviour for cargo 0 to 31 15:07:30 <frosch123> they then refer to the industry readme to figure out what ids are which 15:07:36 <andythenorth> that is fun 15:08:01 <andythenorth> bah, Iâve broken the online docs 15:08:17 <andythenorth> Jenkins should be whining at me 15:11:46 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:18:24 * andythenorth wonders about an industry that can build on land or at sea 15:18:45 <andythenorth> canât remember if build on water is an XOR or just a flag permitting 15:19:02 <Eddi|zuHause> just have different layouts? 15:19:03 <V453000> === quarry/dredging site? :D 15:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> "build on water" is per industrytile, not per industry 15:19:50 <andythenorth> V453000: you think that should just be one type? 15:20:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: thanks 15:20:59 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:b0ad:1f72:c407:d69b] has quit [Quit: .] 15:28:55 <__ln__> the dutch ... http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/554096/Adolf-Hitler-Norfolk-second-world-war 15:30:43 <andythenorth> not all the Dutch 15:32:33 <andythenorth> Alberth: got any uncommitted changes to FIRS makefile? o_O 15:32:58 <Alberth> no 15:33:25 <Alberth> removing the makefile.config didn't look like a good idea any more 15:33:40 <Alberth> and I am not sure how to move on 15:34:10 <planetmaker> o/ 15:34:16 <Alberth> hihi 15:34:16 <planetmaker> what's your issue with the Makefile? 15:34:47 <planetmaker> or the aim of changes? 15:35:10 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 15:35:12 <andythenorth> (1) is the FIRS makefile in a state youâd consider good, or is it aging? (2) making some changes to fix stupid I have done 15:35:51 <planetmaker> possibly not 100% up to date, but as long as it does its job it's good enough. So: what needs fixing? 15:36:02 <Eddi|zuHause> those are both unhelpful answers 15:37:16 <andythenorth> if I just state what Iâm trying to do, we might get bogged down in that before establishing whether itâs wise :) 15:37:49 <andythenorth> my current âproblemâ is that I need to make docs build, for which there is code I have written, and code that exists, and the two need refactoring to be one 15:38:28 <planetmaker> you mean docs are not properly built? 15:38:33 <andythenorth> also I am trying to do this without editing Makefile because my understanding is I should never touch Makefile, but that might be bogus 15:38:35 <planetmaker> by make docs? 15:38:48 <andythenorth> make doc is the pre-existing target in makefile 15:39:04 <andythenorth> that doesnât build my docs 15:39:10 <planetmaker> ok 15:39:19 <andythenorth> to make it build my docs I can probably do it via Makefile.in 15:39:26 <andythenorth> or Makefile.config 15:39:29 <andythenorth> but Iâm not sure 15:39:35 <planetmaker> depends a bit on how old the Makefile is :D 15:40:01 <andythenorth> some 15:41:05 <andythenorth> last major rework looks like 2012 http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/changes/Makefile 15:41:09 <planetmaker> looks new enough 15:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause> makefile.config should be for everybody's local checkout, makefile.in (or _in) for the project's special code 15:41:58 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, Makefile.local for local config. Makefile.config for the project-specific stuff when using the standard NewGRF Makefile 15:42:09 <planetmaker> Makefile.in to make amendments to the rules 15:42:25 <andythenorth> and is Makefile.in append or replace for existing rules? 15:42:35 <Alberth> you know autotools use *.in as source for *, right? 15:42:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know who came up with .in 15:43:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it always felt out of place 15:43:15 <andythenorth> Iâve seen it used in projects 100% unrelated to ours :) 15:43:21 <andythenorth> for exact same purpose 15:43:31 <Alberth> yes, all autotools projects :p 15:44:27 <Alberth> and given that autotools is kind of standard at Unix, that's a lot of projects 15:45:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, *.in as input for * is also used in OpenTTD, but the Makefile.in from the makefile never had that semantics 15:45:29 <planetmaker> the Makefile is my crime ;) 15:46:07 <planetmaker> but yes, I might have spotted it other places and gone from there 15:46:36 <planetmaker> anyhow: Makefile.in can be used as both. But Makefile rules usually works as replacement 15:46:40 <Alberth> for newgrf projects having a Makefile is probably a lot better than having to deal with autotools 15:47:01 <planetmaker> amend is difficult as you then cannot control the order of execution of the parts which get amended which usually is very troublesome 15:47:42 *** pxr [~Mychomize@46-236-110-230.customer.t3.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47:58 <andythenorth> in this case I need replace 15:48:17 <andythenorth> the rules for building docs make assumptions that hold elsewhere, but not in FIRS 15:49:06 <andythenorth> I wasnât sure how that would work, so I have dumped a âdocsâ target into Makefile.in 15:49:07 <psusi> sigh... so I had a train bring passengers up to a station that doesn't accept them and forced them to unload... planning on linking a bus station to transfer them to... the train dropped them off and picked them right back up to return them to their point of origin 15:49:15 <andythenorth> rather than the standard âdoc' 15:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> psusi: you should use "transfer and no loading" 15:50:46 <psusi> but then won't it refuse to pick up passengers heading the other way? 15:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. that won't work 15:51:11 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want that to work, you need to enable cargo distribution 15:51:16 <psusi> ummm.... 15:51:21 <psusi> what's that? 15:51:23 <Eddi|zuHause> so people actually have a sense of where they want to go 15:51:32 <planetmaker> brb ... food 15:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a setting, if you use 1.4 or newer 15:54:27 <Eddi|zuHause> psusi: cargodist makes people have an opinion on where they want to go, rather than just getting off at the next station. so they will stay in the train for more than one station, or use multiple trains/busses to get to their destination 15:55:07 <andythenorth> somewhat of an opinion 15:55:38 * andythenorth wonders when next hop is actually calculated 15:56:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: afaik, on unloading, the cargo packet will get a next hop 15:57:13 <andythenorth> mostly I find it helps in a game to not think how cdist works, but rather how it behaves 15:57:50 <andythenorth> trying to manage it is fruitless, but building more vehicles is easy 15:58:25 <andythenorth> also accept that pax stations will never clear 16:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just like in real life. building more roads will not lead to less traffic jam. just to more traffic 16:01:29 <andythenorth> ha ha Iron Horse gives you hopper cars for Beans 16:01:33 * andythenorth testing new stuff 16:03:22 <andythenorth> ho, Sugar Refinery processes to produces more output than amount input 16:03:31 <andythenorth> shall I leave that bug as a feature? o_O 16:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you told it beans were bulk... 16:04:04 <andythenorth> yup 16:17:38 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.17.85.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:19:02 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:20 <andythenorth> herp, maybe no chemicals from sugar refinery in this economy 16:21:32 <andythenorth> adding more string to the production code, meh 16:44:58 <andythenorth> oh a free industry slot 17:11:27 <andythenorth> so can someone update newgrf wiki cargo labels page for me? Needs âBEANâ and âNITRâ adding 17:11:44 <andythenorth> BEAN is Beans, NITR is Nitrate 17:11:45 <andythenorth> canât log in 17:12:53 <andythenorth> I hardened my passwords for tt-forums last year, does the wiki use an auth provider, or does it copy hashes? 17:13:06 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3209.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:19:45 * Eddi|zuHause vaguely remembers something about LDAP 17:20:42 <frosch123> andythenorth: what cargo classes? 17:21:09 <andythenorth> Beans: bulk 17:21:19 <andythenorth> Nitrates: Bulk 17:21:30 <andythenorth> if anyone wants to chip in with suggestions for classes, now is the time 17:22:30 <andythenorth> nitrates: covered? 17:23:02 <Eddi|zuHause> covered,powdered 17:23:27 <Eddi|zuHause> beans: piece,bulk 17:23:43 <frosch123> piece :p 17:23:51 <frosch123> 10k pieces of beans 17:23:57 <Eddi|zuHause> well, bags :) 17:25:21 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=CargoTypes&diff=3610&oldid=3595 <- well, both BULK only for now 17:25:37 <andythenorth> countable beans 17:25:50 <frosch123> don't see how piece+bulk makes sense, i don't see any of the existing cargos do that 17:25:57 <frosch123> though there are some with +liquid 17:26:25 <frosch123> oh, FERT and FIRC are 17:26:42 <frosch123> ECS has fertiliser 17:27:16 <andythenorth> rationale for adding piece is beans in vans 17:27:20 <andythenorth> but eh 17:28:05 <andythenorth> fruit is piece, because crates 17:28:26 <andythenorth> anyway frosch123 thanks :) 17:29:38 <frosch123> i think we didn't have a cargo class discusssion for about a year :p 17:30:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the proof: openttd is dieing 17:30:44 <andythenorth> or we solved it :( 17:30:51 <andythenorth> sometimes we do that 17:33:48 <frosch123> well, we passed the tipping point of ttd 17:34:17 <frosch123> maybe already the tipping point of ttdp? 17:34:19 <andythenorth> searching for nitrate trucks, turns out nitrates are explosive 17:34:58 <FLHerne> andythenorth: The Soham disaster proved that, didn't it? 17:35:16 <FLHerne> No, it didn't 17:35:31 <andythenorth> frosch123: I think weâre past a dev tipping point 17:35:39 <andythenorth> but by no means a player tipping point 17:35:53 <andythenorth> I think dev tipping point is probably ~2 years back 17:36:30 <andythenorth> all the big interesting problems are gone 17:36:40 <andythenorth> and we lost a bunch of people to jobs and real life 17:37:41 <andythenorth> T*rkhen, yex*, and such 17:38:56 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@blfd-5d822989.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Yo.] 17:39:52 <andythenorth> but eh, FIRS Ainât Dead, it turns out 17:39:57 <andythenorth> mostly because Busy Bee 17:49:18 <frosch123> hmm, someone knows the exact release date of ttd? 17:49:28 <frosch123> it gets 20 somewhen this year 17:50:42 <andythenorth> I canât find a date on google 17:51:53 <frosch123> i assume noone has an hold sales receipt? :p 17:53:23 * andythenorth considers buying this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Transport-Tycoon-Replay-Deluxe-PC/dp/B00005LDJB/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422208369&sr=8-1&keywords=transport+tycoon+deluxe 17:55:12 <frosch123> the listed features are hillarious :) 17:55:25 <frosch123> "Company buy outs" <- how is that important? 17:57:12 <andythenorth> Feature, not Benefit :) 17:57:15 <andythenorth> box ticking 17:58:32 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:1c04:8c55:7036:5e8e] has joined #openttd 18:00:45 <frosch123> anyway, ottd is only 11, ttdp was 12 when it was solid dead, so we have 1 year left to die :) 18:01:03 <andythenorth> eh 18:01:06 <andythenorth> well 18:01:13 <andythenorth> better get working on it :P 18:01:19 <frosch123> ttdp was 8 when it effectively died, no idea what ottd did in 2012 18:01:33 <NGC3982> ttdp? 18:01:48 <andythenorth> cba to look in svn logs 18:01:53 <frosch123> i think 2012 was grf8 and game scripts, right? so one of the best? 18:02:06 <andythenorth> "GS will be the death of ottd" 18:02:12 <planetmaker> 1.2 was grf v8 18:02:37 <andythenorth> no ttdp, no competition 18:02:49 <andythenorth> no competition, no impetus to compete? o_O 18:04:27 <andythenorth> also, fewer commits, less discussion 18:04:37 <andythenorth> less discussion, less inspiration to patch 18:04:44 <andythenorth> and less kudos for those who patch 18:06:31 <andythenorth> but eh, we also have a lot of other tools and ecosystem, and thatâs not dying yet 18:07:45 <Rubidium> I reckon the major problem is that OpenTTD is currently hindered enormously by choices made long ago that can't be changed without major effects 18:08:01 <Rubidium> but... then those choices make it OpenTTD 18:08:16 <andythenorth> name some? o_O 18:08:22 <andythenorth> I donât feel hindered particularly 18:09:04 <frosch123> vehicle lengths on diagonals? 18:09:28 <V453000> vehicle can only move by 1/16th of a tile at a time :( 18:09:33 <NGC3982> Does anyone really feel the game has major problems? The consensus among me and my non-developer friends is that the game is one of the most well worked trough. 18:09:34 <Rubidium> vehicle clipping due to completely wrong bounding boxes 18:09:36 <NGC3982> Ever. 18:09:49 <andythenorth> oh yeah 18:09:51 <andythenorth> actually 18:10:03 <andythenorth> the mess around diagonals makes me no longer want to draw vehicles 18:10:09 <Wolf01> no map rotation and fully termaformable terrain... 18:10:11 <andythenorth> now I know that whatever I do is wrong :| 18:10:29 <andythenorth> I ask how long a \ view should be and the answers suck 18:10:30 <V453000> andythenorth: render them :> 18:10:30 <andythenorth> :P 18:10:39 <andythenorth> V453000: thatâs not a solution 18:10:43 <V453000> it is 18:10:57 <V453000> once the openttd feature is fixed, you can re-render just with changing one value 18:11:02 <andythenorth> ha 18:11:08 <andythenorth> ok good argument 18:11:11 <andythenorth> but rendering sucks 18:11:15 <V453000> nope :) 18:11:25 <V453000> full class of wagons 3 days vs 3 weeks :P ding 18:11:44 <andythenorth> yeah but I have to re-learn CGI 18:11:49 <andythenorth> I am over 30, I canât learn anything 18:12:02 <V453000> not like it is that complicated 18:12:10 <andythenorth> also, do you really think I could put up with the compile times? 18:12:15 <V453000> you dont really need anything super elaborate to make openttd stuff 18:12:22 <V453000> yes :> 18:12:26 <V453000> attention span ++ 18:12:47 <Rubidium> furthermore many peculiarities w.r.t. NewGRFs and multiplayer 18:13:29 <V453000> I think with increasing amount of 32bpp/EZ newGRFs it will come more clear that the sprites are hell in filesize for such zooms etc 18:13:52 <V453000> just my 3 newGRFs will have like 500MB soon 18:13:58 <V453000> including RAWR as a newgrf for now 18:14:10 <andythenorth> svg renderer? 18:14:13 <andythenorth> :P 18:14:19 <V453000> .. :) 18:14:26 <andythenorth> I do wonder if 32bpp is what will kill ottd 18:14:45 <V453000> no is the answer :) 18:14:47 <NGC3982> I notice that all players connected to my servers are at the moment spectators. min_active_clients is 1. Is pause-on-spectate configurable? 18:14:49 <andythenorth> really? 18:14:54 <V453000> sure, why would it 18:14:57 <Rubidium> oh... palette animation is such a fun feature as well ;) 18:14:57 <V453000> it isnt mandatory 18:15:02 <andythenorth> I think it will end up pushing the pixel art to the same place TTDP has gone 18:15:03 <V453000> XD yes Rubi 18:15:09 <andythenorth> increasingly marginalised 18:15:14 <andythenorth> the people doing it will be pushed out 18:15:16 <V453000> I dont think so andythenorth, at all 18:15:24 <andythenorth> I do, itâs a people thing, not an art thing 18:15:30 <V453000> 1. 3D just requires a lot of experience and effort to even get it started 18:15:46 <V453000> 2. pixel drawing is simple for everybody, even if it looks bad, it has results 18:15:57 <V453000> 3. there is a lot of people who prefer the pixely look 18:16:06 <andythenorth> yeah, but pixels will be seen as wrong and old-fashioned 18:16:15 <andythenorth> and those doing it will be seen as weird and cranky 18:16:19 <V453000> oldfashioned yes but that does not mean wrong 18:16:27 <andythenorth> a bit like we see some of the people who are associated mostly with TTDP 18:16:28 <V453000> oldfashioned can be nice 18:16:40 <NGC3982> Pixels seems very hip at the moment? 18:16:44 <V453000> I think the only question is what is done better, the pure quality 18:16:47 <andythenorth> nobody will bother drawing bad pixels, because theyâre not rendering 18:16:54 <V453000> if pixel art is done well, then it will be great 18:17:00 <andythenorth> yeah but nobody will 18:17:01 <V453000> if 3D is done very well, then it will be used 18:17:17 <V453000> they will, you have whole plethora of bad pixel art 18:17:22 <andythenorth> this is a prediction, not an argument :) 18:17:27 <V453000> sure 18:17:30 <andythenorth> we could put â¬25 on it 18:17:36 <andythenorth> Iâd give it 7 years 18:17:37 <V453000> XD 18:17:56 <V453000> so what exactly do you say? :D 18:18:04 <andythenorth> 2 things 18:18:08 <V453000> OpenTTD will die in 7 years with 32bpp on its tombstone? :P 18:18:11 <frosch123> V453000: andy is correct. the amount of people on reddit (i.e. the younger ones) who prefer zbase just because it has zoom-in is hillarious 18:18:15 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i have a feeling computers get slower over time... 18:18:24 <andythenorth> (1) weâll end roughly where simutrans is, with a mess of paks 18:18:26 <V453000> frosch123: hm :) 18:18:30 <andythenorth> and no coherent art 18:18:48 <andythenorth> (2) nobody will want to do pixels, but very few people will be able to work with rendered art well 18:18:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i started this laptop after half a year, and it takes half an hour to boot, and i'm not even done clicking through a flash player update 18:18:56 <V453000> andy that is where we are already and where we have been ever since opengfx started to exist 18:19:08 <andythenorth> (3) weâll be here in 7 years hoping Bad Brett ships something, and saves the game 18:19:13 <V453000> XD 18:19:26 <V453000> I dont think BB will release stuff in the next 7 years 18:19:37 <andythenorth> weâll increasingly hope he does 18:19:50 <andythenorth> because itâs the last way out of what will seem a mess 18:19:51 <Rubidium> will P1SIM be done by then? 18:20:00 <V453000> perhaps I will stop being bad at 3D and save it instead :P 18:20:08 <Eddi|zuHause> will DBSet 0.9 be done by then? 18:20:12 <andythenorth> nearly 18:20:18 <andythenorth> if you read the German forums enough 18:20:22 <V453000> not on bananas though 18:20:34 <andythenorth> there will be a new version of FIRS by then as well 18:21:27 <Eddi|zuHause> ... also, there is a windows update running every time i start the computer, but it always fails, and starts again next time... 18:21:39 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: make me wonders whether Microsoft gets slower over time... 18:22:00 <frosch123> good point, does ms still exist in 7 years? 18:22:15 <Rubidium> ... I remember the good old days that you would get 400 kBps downloads from Microsoft, now you're happy when they reach 300 kBps 18:22:19 <V453000> am going to confirm andythenorths predictions with a 8,3% beer =D 18:22:50 <frosch123> V453000: 8.3% beer, 91.7% water? bah :p 18:23:02 <andythenorth> wine is stronger 18:23:25 <V453000> :) 18:23:28 <andythenorth> ms exists in 7 years :P 18:23:37 <Rubidium> frosch123: what about nitrogen instead of water? 18:23:40 <andythenorth> they probably have maintenance contracts on IE 7 for that long :P 18:23:49 <Rubidium> makes it pretty foamy I'd reckon 18:23:52 * andythenorth waits for IE 7 to get out of his life 18:24:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you're breathing 70% nitrogen. does nothing at all. 18:24:39 <Eddi|zuHause> (unless you're rising from large depths) 18:25:03 <andythenorth> also 18:25:08 <andythenorth> we canât please the reddit crowd 18:25:14 <andythenorth> nor can we please the foamers 18:25:26 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but 8.3% beer + 91.7% nitrogen properly mixed in a (beer) glass will be quite foamy, wouldn't it be? 18:25:48 <andythenorth> but we do please my 5 year old 18:26:07 <andythenorth> who is also right now sitting playing Worms on iPad, which is what? 15 years old? 20? 18:26:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i'd rather say you get a bottom half 8.3% alcohol and a top half 91.7% nitrogen rather quickly 18:27:00 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the ipad or the kid? :p 18:27:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: the best one (worms 2) is from 1997 18:27:37 <andythenorth> this is worms armageddon 18:27:47 <andythenorth> looks roughly like the one I remember 18:28:13 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone have a clue how i get this broken update out of my system? 18:28:33 <andythenorth> backups 18:28:39 <frosch123> only use vms 18:28:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i played a bit of worms 3D on some lan partys 18:29:03 <FLHerne> andythenorth: And we're all here on IRC, which is older than the Web, and still far better than all other messaging 'apps' LD 18:29:20 <andythenorth> snapshot all the things, in virtualbox 18:29:55 <Eddi|zuHause> this laptop doesn't do virtualization 18:30:35 <Eddi|zuHause> this runs windows vista, i think. 18:33:22 * andythenorth should have put potash into Arctic Basic, not Iron Ore 18:33:32 <andythenorth> still, could go back and forth forever on this eh? 18:35:09 <frosch123> ah, i see, armageddon fixed the mortar cheat, but also removed all the cusomisation options 18:35:26 <andythenorth> dunno what this iOS version does 18:35:30 <andythenorth> quite playable though 18:35:44 <andythenorth> apart from achingly slow load times, nothing Iâd much change 18:35:51 <andythenorth> dunno why itâs *so* slow 18:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, so according to the logs, the constantly failing update is "Microsoft .NET Framework 4.5.1 for Windows Vista (KB2858725)" 18:36:30 <andythenorth> is there some manifest where you can delete that entry?H 18:37:02 *** naliao [~Naliao@107-133-209-15.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 18:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know anything about how windows works anymore... 18:40:37 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that one sounds vaguely familiar to me 18:41:15 <Rubidium> though on Windows 7... but I have no idea how I actually fixed the issue 18:42:22 <Rubidium> it definitely took a lot of time to figure out, but was mostly done by google + trying everything that seems reasonable 18:42:43 <Rubidium> i.e. everything that doesn't require installing something that isn't made by Microsoft 18:43:57 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-249-192.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 18:44:00 <Samu> hi 18:44:21 <Samu> is bukkit a bot? 18:44:29 <Samu> i was on the wrong channel 18:45:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm currently reading http://support2.microsoft.com/kb/2721187 18:52:07 <michi_cc> Google the error number (80....) which you should get? 18:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no error number 18:52:30 <Eddi|zuHause> it just takes forever 18:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> uses lots of memory 18:59:39 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I remember that booting went much faster without internet connectivity (though not 100% sure it was with the same patch) 19:02:52 *** deniz1a [~kvirc@88.251.115.211] has joined #openttd 19:03:17 <deniz1a> hello. i have a question here: http://i.imgur.com/pBLgoZi.png can anyone help? 19:03:57 <Progman> deniz1a: thats right, because the whole block is occupied by trains in the station 19:04:48 <Progman> its a "huge" junction, which even reach in the station, and when there is a train in it its blocked 19:04:58 <deniz1a> but it doesnt do that on the other station where it's the same 19:05:02 <Progman> not by the path signal, but by the normal signals 19:05:24 <Progman> then the other station is designed differently 19:06:04 <deniz1a> no it's the same 19:06:22 <Progman> please show a screenshot of that other station 19:09:36 <deniz1a> here's the other station: http://i.imgur.com/uz4pqQJ.png 19:10:17 <Progman> its the same 19:10:21 <planetmaker> deniz1a, yes, the block is then governed by the *block* signal on the return track 19:10:39 <planetmaker> use a path signal there, too, and you'll be fine 19:10:40 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: that's green because there are no trains in the station 19:10:40 <Progman> put a train in the station and the signal gets red 19:11:22 <planetmaker> or simply only use path signals 19:11:32 <deniz1a> but why is the station part of that signal block? 19:11:52 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: because "block" is anything that is between two signals 19:12:06 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: even if a train cannot go that way 19:12:14 <deniz1a> yeah you're right when the train leaves the station light turns green 19:12:39 <deniz1a> so a block is defined by the position on the map and not by the track layout? 19:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> any connected set of tracks counts as a block 19:14:56 <deniz1a> ok 19:15:13 <andythenorth> how much food for 8t of beans? 19:15:15 <andythenorth> 6t? 19:15:17 <michi_cc> Trains might not be able to switch tracks on a diagonal X, but they can still crash into each other, which is why connected does not mean "can move from A to B". 19:15:18 <andythenorth> also fruit 19:17:02 *** gelignite_ [~gelignite@i528C3406.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:17:45 <planetmaker> 6/8 production rate sounds alright, I think 19:18:18 <andythenorth> yeah, matches existing similar industries 19:19:26 <planetmaker> yup :) 19:19:45 <planetmaker> may I be so lazy to ask where nitrate and beans come from and go to? 19:19:53 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3209.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:28:06 <andythenorth> if I hadnât broken the makefile, Iâd reward your laziness with a link to the docs 19:28:24 <andythenorth> Nitrate Mine -> Nitrates -> Chemical Works 19:28:41 <andythenorth> Arable Farms -> Beans -> Food Processing Plant 19:37:02 <planetmaker> ah. nice 19:37:34 <andythenorth> itâs so much more fun making 4 smaller economies than 1 giant one :P 19:38:17 <planetmaker> yup :) 19:39:42 <planetmaker> would I have permission to mess with makefile? 19:40:06 <andythenorth> absolutely 19:40:20 <andythenorth> I might want to read the diff, for learning 19:40:29 <planetmaker> he... make: *** No rule to make target `graphics_sources/aluminium', needed by `firs.nml'. Stop. 19:40:30 <V453000> Alberth: :) 19:41:15 <Alberth> yw :) 19:41:47 <planetmaker> ok, so the update to makefile broke that :P 19:41:48 <andythenorth> planetmaker: ho, I donât have that :) 19:44:04 <V453000> thanks :) a lot 19:44:22 <V453000> making some dirt roadz now :P 19:45:12 <andythenorth> for toyland, you need slot car track? 19:45:59 *** deniz1a [~kvirc@88.251.115.211] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:48:21 <Samu> question 19:48:26 <Samu> https://rupavq.dm2304.livefilestore.com/y2pFw1ZJL1TwWjXKJLotHL5FykNjEo-MYVGSTHk7hHLGi8_wQGVhrLYbCEnlIeCmYn5L99cAcvKavpxFca1l-GyKUbjuIUgvb30geHBj6XeWC6OdextTyLOL930CRjZ0TrW4ayDpbX5W7XXRX1FzIKp7w/train%20coming%20out%20of%20station.png?psid=1 19:48:46 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 19:48:53 <Samu> on that screenshot, the train coming out of the station is occupying the other lane 19:48:59 <Samu> why? 19:49:35 <frosch123> who knows, noone can see tracks on maglev 19:49:45 <frosch123> maybe a piece is missing 19:49:54 <Samu> it's not missing anything 19:50:10 <Samu> it is forcing train 1 to wait :( 19:52:20 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:52:23 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 19:52:48 <andythenorth> shame about maglev tracks 19:52:59 <andythenorth> I would provide maglev if there were nice track sprites 19:53:21 <Samu> ok, let me downgrade to monorail 19:55:23 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I understand that you want the html docs rendered. Do you want them in the normal bundle, too, which is distributed? Or does it suffice when CF builds and publishes them? 19:55:23 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:55:31 <planetmaker> (the latter is easier) 19:55:49 <Samu> https://rupavq.dm2304.livefilestore.com/y2p6DTxtrQv_GxaK1F3xJJfZUy4c1WwrEKFbBdlwhHctweYknLTjffN67e_wrEdc7y7MsCYryA6fIbvE-x9OfsopIZSybEezbYrvnpbEtSGoVCswGzryBXGj3kdwYF7dI13Iyf3ik9iwTy1rp7kaAQSCA/train%20coming%20out%20of%20station%20monorail.png?psid=1 19:56:10 <andythenorth> planetmaker: they are not currently shipped in the .tar, no need to change that. Theyâre 2MB 19:56:15 <andythenorth> and they can be found online anyway 19:56:23 <planetmaker> ok 19:56:40 <Samu> monorail'ed that place temporarily for the screenshot 19:57:47 <andythenorth> I think FIRS release is closer 19:57:53 <andythenorth> if anyone plans translating, now would be good 19:58:06 <andythenorth> wonât get picked up until tomorrow, and I might be done with the grf by then :) 19:58:49 <andythenorth> Iâve pushed all the string changes that Iâm planning 19:58:55 <planetmaker> andythenorth, docs/*.txt are meaningful for the shipped bundle nevertheless, yes? 19:59:12 <planetmaker> (license/changelog/readme) 19:59:31 <andythenorth> currently not shipping, but should be included 19:59:55 <andythenorth> I think theyâre only recently excluded by me poking at makefile 19:59:56 <Alberth> Samu: apparently it prefers to go straight rather than go into a corner 20:00:11 <Samu> yes, why's that :( 20:01:03 <Alberth> random guess, the path finder attaches less costs to straight paths, as it allows mono trains to go faster 20:01:05 *** psusi [~psusi@72-238-77-169.res.bhn.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:01:55 <Alberth> I don't see why it's a problem, it rarely happens that trains meet this way 20:02:01 <Samu> it's maglev 20:02:09 <Eddi|zuHause> man, i should probably just trash this laptop and install a new windows. but i don't have any installation CDs. or license keys.. 20:02:14 <Alberth> s/mono/maglev/ 20:02:24 <Samu> would it not do that with rail? 20:02:28 <Alberth> I never play either of these :) 20:02:45 <Alberth> no idea, I don't care about such things 20:02:57 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: wow, a laptop without a windows license in the bottom? must be a mac. 20:03:07 <Alberth> breakdowns and servicing has a much bigger impact than this waiting 20:03:31 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: it does. but that's a really old one... 20:03:50 <planetmaker> pull, andy. I had to rebase my makefile change twice within 30 seconds ;) 20:03:59 <andythenorth> someone donate Eddi a windows license 20:04:11 <andythenorth> pulled 20:04:15 <Eddi|zuHause> also, it's a "home", but i'd rather have a "professional" 20:04:19 *** pxr [~Mychomize@46-236-110-230.customer.t3.se] has joined #openttd 20:05:11 <__ln__> xp, 7, 8? 20:05:24 <Samu> there's windows 10 preview available 20:05:36 <Samu> for free if u sign up to whatever microsoft wants 20:05:51 <Samu> an account 20:06:12 <__ln__> you don't need an account to either download it or use it 20:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. i'm surely going to install an experimental windows beta on a work laptop 20:06:37 <andythenorth> planetmaker: afk for 10 mins 20:06:38 <andythenorth> :) 20:06:38 <Samu> oh then i don't think you can find a free windows 20:06:50 <planetmaker> andythenorth, can you confirm that it now does what it's supposed to do? ok :) 20:07:32 <andythenorth> will do 20:07:33 <__ln__> Samu: nonsense 20:07:40 <glx> __ln__: many recent laptop don't have the license in the bottom, it's stored somewhere inside the hardware 20:08:20 <planetmaker> it worked for me, but meh... one never knows :) 20:08:48 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:1c04:8c55:7036:5e8e] has quit [Quit: .] 20:08:59 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:09:15 <planetmaker> hm... 20:12:40 <Samu> https://insider.windows.com/ 20:12:53 <Samu> create an account, download :p 20:12:57 <Samu> i guess that's just it 20:15:45 <planetmaker> andythenorth, is there still somewhere readme / license / changelog in the repo? Or generated? 20:15:57 <planetmaker> I fell over purge not deleting actively ignored files 20:16:37 <andythenorth> planetmaker: (back) all docs are templates in src/docs_templates 20:16:41 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 20:17:07 <andythenorth> so generated 20:17:38 <planetmaker> ok 20:17:54 <planetmaker> thus my diff is somewhat wrong, but worked locally on a not totally virgin checkout 20:18:06 <andythenorth> yeah, I think thatâs my finding here 20:18:08 <andythenorth> also 20:18:39 <Samu> http://iso.esd.microsoft.com/W9TPI/B6B0A0278A90510669EAB90ABF80B22A/Windows10_TechnicalPreview_x64_EN-US_9926.iso 20:18:48 <Samu> Product key: NKJFK-GPHP7-G8C3J-P6JXR-HQRJR 20:18:55 <Samu> there it is 20:19:00 <planetmaker> andythenorth, but there's no txt files, just .pt files 20:19:15 <frosch123> Samu: in case you wondered, noone here is interested in windows 20:19:40 <Samu> Eddi|zuHause: wanted windows 20:19:50 <andythenorth> there is one, compiling_firs.txt, but I think itâs an orphan 20:20:06 <planetmaker> oh, nvm 20:20:11 <andythenorth> planetmaker: are you trying to find an appropriate target, or the deps? 20:20:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: but i also said i won't use windows 10 20:20:28 <Wolf01> frosch123, I am, but since the retail version will be drastically different from the technical preview, I won't waste my time :) 20:20:30 <Samu> that's the only free windows I know of 20:20:47 <Samu> ok, sorry then 20:21:23 <andythenorth> can you even buy old Windows any more? 20:21:49 <Wolf01> if stores sell it, why not? 20:22:59 <Wolf01> also, seem they removed the three strike activation limit for XP, so it's nice to test it on VMs 20:23:55 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 20:31:40 <planetmaker> so... another commit. Let's see how that works :) 20:32:03 <andythenorth> :) 20:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: usually they only sell the newest windows (8.1 at this time), but the license includes the right to downgrade 20:33:15 <andythenorth> oic 20:35:05 <frosch123> really? who included the right to downgrade? :o 20:35:12 <frosch123> did ms do that? 20:36:12 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the correct target for just docs is now html_docs? 20:36:15 <andythenorth> or doc? 20:36:33 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, at least in the professional line 20:36:55 <andythenorth> for people who run a massive fleet, and need to keep buying XP licenses 20:37:03 <andythenorth> itâs quite neat 20:37:03 <frosch123> ah, yeah, makes sense for professional line 20:37:17 <planetmaker> andythenorth, html_docs 20:37:29 <andythenorth> ok that does exactly what I expect 20:37:30 <planetmaker> it needs some different name from doc 20:37:35 <andythenorth> thatâs fine 20:37:37 <planetmaker> and doc / docs is too similar for my liking 20:37:39 <frosch123> well, i keep on wondering whether win10 will be the death for ms. i just do not see that working in a professional environment 20:37:49 <andythenorth> âmake docâ seems to build whole grf 20:37:57 <planetmaker> yes, it does 20:38:02 <planetmaker> as docs depend on the grf 20:38:21 <planetmaker> that's default. Not necessarily sane. But allows to include the md5sum 20:38:25 <andythenorth> ok 20:38:32 <andythenorth> weâll leave that then :) 20:47:07 <andythenorth> anyone recognise these rocks? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/graphics_sources/guano_mine/GuanoMine1.png 20:47:17 <andythenorth> I assume opengfx, but not sure 20:47:35 <planetmaker> no, I do not know them at all 20:49:07 <V453000> diamond mine opengfx 20:49:15 <planetmaker> hm... :P 20:49:24 <V453000> 90% sure :P 20:49:31 <planetmaker> seems I seldomly dig for diamonds :P 20:49:46 <V453000> I could be wrong 20:49:55 <V453000> but they are very similar at least 20:50:32 * andythenorth checks 20:51:36 <andythenorth> yup thanks 20:51:42 <V453000> :) yw 20:52:30 <planetmaker> yup, very much so. Thanks, too :) 20:54:46 <andythenorth> V453000: so can you render me a Nitrate Mine? o_O 20:55:15 <V453000> I have no idea how should that look 20:55:38 <V453000> but eventually, perhaps :P though I dont like the idea of being communitys pet 3D monkey :P 20:55:50 <V453000> for You it is worth considering :p 20:56:05 <V453000> but wtf will you do with 1 rendered industry? :D 20:56:16 <andythenorth> paint pixels over all of it 20:56:21 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-11-25.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 20:56:24 <V453000> xd 20:56:25 <andythenorth> tbh, I can use the one that Dan has done 20:56:32 <andythenorth> but I have to fix those rocks 20:56:53 <planetmaker> why fix? 20:57:07 <planetmaker> err-doesn't-fit-style? 20:57:39 <andythenorth> nothing like that in original TTD base set 20:58:29 <andythenorth> needs some thought 20:59:14 <V453000> . 20:59:37 <andythenorth> also the mockup includes grass 20:59:43 <andythenorth> which is inside the industry 20:59:49 <andythenorth> base set conflicts :) 21:02:33 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:09:30 <andythenorth> V453000: ? http://www.thesettlersonlinecompendium.com/static/TSOK/b/SaltpetreMine-4.png 21:11:58 <frosch123> V453000: you should make sure that andy has to use whatever you draw, and then draw a yeti shitting nitrate 21:12:44 <andythenorth> http://m4.i.pbase.com/v3/93/329493/1/45160944.DSC_2476.JPG 21:13:45 <andythenorth> maybe just rock base 21:14:06 <andythenorth> possibly I should do land version first, easier 21:14:10 <andythenorth> then I can release this 21:18:00 <Supercheese> Yet more strings 21:18:32 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:24:43 <V453000> frosch123: good idea 21:26:26 <andythenorth> Supercheese: itâs done, barring mistakes 21:26:34 <Supercheese> roger 21:31:47 <andythenorth> hmm 21:31:58 <andythenorth> building industries at sea, which provide an island 21:31:59 <andythenorth> is weird 21:32:02 <andythenorth> no island 21:32:08 <andythenorth> fund industry, new island appears 21:32:09 <andythenorth> eh? 21:32:15 <andythenorth> not good 21:35:57 <Supercheese> sounds neat to me 21:36:05 <Supercheese> new Tourist Center 21:36:07 <Supercheese> Private Island 21:36:13 <andythenorth> this is a mine :P 21:36:17 <Supercheese> provide plenty of pax, alcohol, and food 21:36:24 <Supercheese> :P 21:36:46 <Supercheese> It would even have the helipad and dock built in eh 21:36:55 <andythenorth> yeah 21:37:07 <planetmaker> German translation updated 21:37:17 <andythenorth> \o/ 21:37:24 <Supercheese> I still have to figure out how they retrotranslate "Nitrate" back to Latin 21:38:48 <planetmaker> nitrati? 21:39:02 <planetmaker> nitrates? 21:39:36 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@162.253.129.10] has joined #openttd 21:39:48 <Supercheese> Well, the dictionary says "Nitrum" for e.g. potash 21:39:55 <Supercheese> is that appropriate here? 21:40:17 <Supercheese> Guano mine...? 21:40:43 <planetmaker> probably 21:41:12 <andythenorth> specifics vary 21:41:22 <andythenorth> try looking up saltpetre or saltpeter 21:42:08 <Supercheese> Well, that would probably just be directly "Sal Petrae" 21:43:01 <Supercheese> Probably use Nitrum 21:43:10 <planetmaker> my dict says nitrates: nitratus, -i 21:44:45 *** quorzom [~quorzom@cable-78-35-98-177.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 21:45:07 <Supercheese> Is this specifically for the extracts from the Guano mine, I haven't checked latest push builds yet 21:45:21 <Supercheese> I'll check now 21:47:40 <Supercheese> oh Guano mine has disappeared 21:56:50 <andythenorth> Nitrate Mine now 21:56:55 <andythenorth> itâs ok 21:57:05 <andythenorth> less overall work :) 22:02:56 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 22:04:06 <andythenorth> maybe I can coerce this industry to build on small islands 22:04:12 <andythenorth> harbour industries do it 22:09:08 <Wolf01> 'night 22:09:15 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:10:29 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@2601:9:1180:237:f16d:3c7a:3ff5:b6bc] has joined #openttd 22:11:26 *** gelignite_ [~gelignite@i528C3406.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 22:13:53 <planetmaker> g'night 22:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just remember that the more restrictive the locations are, the less likely the game will actually find a location 22:14:50 <andythenorth> yes 22:15:05 <andythenorth> if I provide alternative layouts, some for islands and some for mainland 22:15:06 <andythenorth> might be ok 22:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> "That train looks quite horsey" <- irony :p 22:15:09 <andythenorth> bit more work 22:15:30 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: and they say Germans arenât funny :o 22:15:45 <Eddi|zuHause> only people who are not funny say that 22:15:46 <andythenorth> that might be irc comment of the year so far :) 22:26:14 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:39:48 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:36 <Supercheese> Why does FIRS have its own STR_CARGO_*_FRUITS strings, rather than using OTTD default Fruit strings? 22:40:49 <Supercheese> they seem to be identical 22:41:03 <andythenorth> hysterical raisins 22:41:17 <andythenorth> was Fruit & Vegetables 22:41:21 <Supercheese> aah 22:41:22 <andythenorth> then the veg was dropped 22:41:26 <andythenorth> could be changed tbh 22:42:46 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 22:43:54 <Supercheese> Odd that the vehicle factory outputs crates. Must ship their vehicles disassembled ;) 22:44:21 *** urdh [urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:45:10 <glx> maybe they are assembled and put in big boxes 22:45:14 <andythenorth> ? http://assets.blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2011/12/COPOCamaroConcept01_1000.jpg 22:45:51 <Supercheese> Oh very nice 22:46:03 <Supercheese> although that seems like it could have been a publicity stunt 22:46:25 <Supercheese> anyway, not a problem 22:46:29 <andythenorth> cars are shipped in ISO containers sometimes, but yeah 22:46:35 <andythenorth> thing is that itâs goods 22:46:38 <andythenorth> so eh 22:48:23 <Supercheese> Not complaining, just had a funny image of a fully assembled tractor but then, "wellp, gotta break it down for shippinng now" 22:48:29 <Supercheese> mental image* 22:48:39 <Supercheese> shipping* 22:48:48 <Supercheese> typing :U 22:49:28 <andythenorth> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-r7X8Qf0AheQ/TZz8a4c25ZI/AAAAAAAAD74/v0slImK1Nbg/s1600/IMG_0488%20Liebherr.jpg 22:49:38 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 22:50:04 <Supercheese> "DO NOT HUMP" :O 22:50:31 <Supercheese> also, axels, axels everywhere 22:52:25 * andythenorth -> bed 22:52:27 <andythenorth> bye 22:52:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:08:48 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:09:36 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00d497.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 23:11:28 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 23:13:15 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 23:15:14 *** Haube [~Michi@ip25048c11.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:42 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-249-192.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:25:47 *** Progman [~progman@p57A185D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:21 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-5d822989.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:43:01 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:43:57 *** quorzom [~quorzom@cable-78-35-98-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]