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00:07:04 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-d9bf65c4.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #openttd 00:15:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D76.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> so basically it's "DLC" before there was "DL"? 00:31:38 <peter1138> Not really, you didn't pay for Episode 1... 00:36:35 *** dreck [~oftc-webi@bas1-ottawa08-1176110546.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 00:36:38 <dreck> hi 00:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so it was also "F2P" 00:47:08 <dreck> whats the topic atm? 00:55:18 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:55:48 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 01:07:47 *** naliao [~Naliao@107-133-209-15.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:09:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it says the topic when you join 01:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> (also, there are logs) 01:33:22 <dreck> I don't see a f2p-something in the topic? and mm ... logs? 01:38:25 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-249-192.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:43:27 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@46.246.119.109] has joined #openttd 02:07:43 * dreck almost want to whack the wagon list into a pile of rubbish :-s 02:08:58 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66750.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:18:28 <dreck> oh well the loco list seem to be coming out nicely 02:44:01 *** dreck [~oftc-webi@bas1-ottawa08-1176110546.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [] 03:08:18 <berndj> how do i read the cargo dist map? i have lines but how do i know which direction is which? i want to reinforce overloaded routes with more buses 03:11:13 <Sylf> You set your distribution asymmetric? 03:14:22 <berndj> yes, looks like it 03:22:26 <Sylf> I really have no idea how to tell which line is which direction 03:28:37 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@blfd-5d8223ef.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 03:35:38 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-d9bf65c4.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:39:25 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:46:43 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6729F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 04:58:14 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6729F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66D1F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:19:48 <supermop> yo 07:57:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 08:05:39 *** jinks [~jinks@2602:ffe8:102:213::1c:34ac] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:14:58 *** jinks [~jinks@2602:ffe8:102:213::1c:34ac] has joined #openttd 08:23:04 *** jinks [~jinks@2602:ffe8:102:213::1c:34ac] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:23:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A190E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:27:16 *** jinks [~jinks@2602:ffe8:102:213::1c:34ac] has joined #openttd 08:30:00 <andythenorth> so bored of these FIRS string code warnings on compile 08:30:19 <supermop> whats a good place for design documents thats public but nott too public 08:30:24 <andythenorth> devzone 08:30:42 <supermop> so i can show some things but not quite ready for forum yet 08:30:53 <andythenorth> hmm 08:31:03 <andythenorth> if I fix strings locally, does eints merge that back? 08:31:05 * andythenorth wonders 08:31:10 <supermop> i just wrote this out on paper and photographed it 08:31:15 * andythenorth could read the eints source 08:32:44 <supermop> how do i put things on devzone? 08:32:50 <andythenorth> has to be in a project 08:32:57 <andythenorth> might not be the best suggestion actually :P 08:33:13 <andythenorth> unless you have a project 08:33:23 <andythenorth> oh eh Iâm just deleting these strings 08:33:25 <supermop> so far the project is a few basic renderingss and this thing i just wrote out by hand 08:33:55 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:33:59 <supermop> i'd better start cooking dinnner soon 08:36:36 *** jinks [~jinks@2602:ffe8:102:213::1c:34ac] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:36:50 <Supercheese> quite the non sequitur 08:37:05 *** jinks [~jinks@2602:ffe8:102:213::1c:34ac] has joined #openttd 08:38:38 <andythenorth> shall I tag and release? 08:38:46 <andythenorth> or is someone going to play test it a bit? 08:39:31 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/ 08:39:38 <andythenorth> eh, maybe release later 08:40:29 <Supercheese> fresh push build eh? 08:42:24 <andythenorth> bug fixes 08:42:43 <andythenorth> think itâs done though 08:45:55 <Supercheese> Are Game Script Parameter strings translateable? It seems that most if not all GS hard-code their strings in info.nut 08:46:40 <Supercheese> thus they are unavailable in the .lang files and eints 08:49:43 <andythenorth> they can be translateable 08:49:46 <andythenorth> Busy Bee does it 08:49:57 <andythenorth> has to be handled explicitly in the GS 08:50:14 <Supercheese> Busy Bee does not, from what I can see 08:50:29 <Supercheese> unless I am mistaken they are hardcoded 08:50:50 <Supercheese> description="Number of goals for a company", 08:50:57 <Supercheese> string directly embedded 08:52:20 <andythenorth> oh parameters :o 08:52:26 <andythenorth> ok 08:52:35 <andythenorth> I would be surprised if theyâre not translateable 08:53:42 <Supercheese> If possible, could they be changed to, I presume, STR_* calls and exposed to eints for translation? 08:54:00 <Supercheese> the above and "Number of years to wait to fulfill a new goal" 08:54:02 <andythenorth> canât see anything in docs about how to translate those 08:54:13 * Supercheese knows little about GS 08:55:13 <Supercheese> Hmm, also the "Make connection, transport cargo" bit is hardcoded, perhaps there is some restriction present on these portions 08:55:51 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 08:55:57 <andythenorth> bbl 08:55:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 09:03:03 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-8-106.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:09:09 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:36:19 <argoneus> hi train friends 09:40:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 09:43:54 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:44:03 *** Extrems1 [borgs@modemcable204.141-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 09:44:44 *** itsatacoshop247_ [~itsatacos@c-76-102-167-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:46:03 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 09:46:06 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 09:46:26 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [] 09:46:33 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 09:46:36 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 09:49:22 <andythenorth> moin planetmaker 09:49:59 *** Extrems [borgs@modemcable204.141-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:50:10 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:52:43 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has joined #openttd 09:53:06 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 09:55:49 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:56:08 * andythenorth borks the FIRS release 09:56:30 <andythenorth> I should read the docs on hgtags instead of guessing 09:56:32 <andythenorth> wrong every time 09:58:51 <andythenorth> hmm 09:58:55 <andythenorth> bundles has built 1.4.0 fine 09:59:09 <andythenorth> but my local build wonât build the bundle correctly (wrong file name) 09:59:10 <andythenorth> nvm 10:00:34 <andythenorth> same for 1.4.1, so itâs not just fat fingers 10:04:36 <andythenorth> bundles fails for 1.4.1 10:04:38 <andythenorth> hey ho 10:04:47 <andythenorth> probably Iâve borked the repo :) 10:04:49 <andythenorth> bbl 10:04:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:58:39 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@i210033.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:08:08 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:27:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 11:28:12 <andythenorth> planetmaker: which target should I use to build a release? o_O 11:29:29 <planetmaker> hg up TAG 11:29:37 <planetmaker> and then build normally 11:29:45 <planetmaker> make bundle; make bundle_zip 11:30:03 <planetmaker> didn't the CF build it properly? 11:31:17 <planetmaker> the filename is strange indeed. 11:32:14 <planetmaker> does it announce itself properly ingame at least? 11:39:56 <supermop> ok 11:40:19 *** dreck [~oftc-webi@bas1-ottawa08-1176110546.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 11:40:21 <dreck> hi 11:51:44 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-249-192.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 11:51:47 <Samu> hi 11:52:38 <Samu> why do I get an error saying "your computer is too slow to keep up with the server"? My computer is definitely not slow 11:52:56 <Samu> I am lagging instead 11:53:08 <Samu> my internet 11:53:59 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.113.147] has joined #openttd 11:55:13 <dreck> samu its a weird misleading wording at least half of the times... 11:55:36 <Samu> and it's a weird kind of lag 11:55:47 <dreck> it really is saying "your connection is not pinging back quick enough to stablize your entry onto the map" in a blunt wording of my own 11:56:04 <Samu> I see the game running fine, and suddenly, boom i get that error 11:56:21 <Samu> but i can't build or chat anything~ 11:57:21 <ST2> can be an ISP <-> Server thing (that server is in a Canadian datacenter, wich don't helps :P) 11:57:37 <dreck> just asking samu..did you try a different map? sometimes its not exactly your own fault but the server or you-to-them isp routing fault 11:57:56 <planetmaker> how can that be the server's fault? 11:57:57 <dreck> if all games does the same thing then it IS your own side thats craped up :/ 11:58:34 <Samu> packet loss? 11:58:50 <andythenorth> planetmaker: yeah FIRS displays correctly in game 11:58:53 <Samu> let me trace route the server 11:58:56 <andythenorth> just the bundle name is wrong I think 11:58:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: you do not necessarily notice the game slowing down at first 11:59:13 <andythenorth> I was mistaken earlier, CF is doing it wrong, not just my local build, but you noticed that already :) 11:59:32 <dreck> planetmaker I've seen the rare wonky server with rather low sync/ping/etc settings that more than often almost noone can really play at all except the actual server computer owner himself 11:59:41 <dreck> so thats why I mentioned it 11:59:52 <Samu> i thought it was on netherlands 12:02:45 * andythenorth tries to figure out if a mercurial tag can be deleted / pointed to a different revision 12:04:15 <Eddi|zuHause> delete the repo and clone it from an earlier repo that doesn't yet have the tag 12:04:56 <andythenorth> nah itâs been pushed 12:05:04 <andythenorth> unlikely to be fixable 12:05:25 <andythenorth> you can only do this on git through social means (you have to find everyone with a checkout and get them all to delete the tag) 12:05:33 <andythenorth> hg is probably same 12:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you have no idea who cloned/pulled since then 12:05:56 <planetmaker> andythenorth, if just the filename is wrong... it's nothing to worry about much. If it bothers you I can manually rename those on the bundles server. And please bug me again Monday or so 12:05:56 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.186.20.120.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 12:06:13 <andythenorth> released version number doesnât match changelog either 12:06:19 <planetmaker> hu? 12:06:24 <andythenorth> because I made 1.4.1 to see what CF would do ;) 12:06:36 <andythenorth> should have made a test tag :P 12:06:39 <andythenorth> nvm 12:08:58 <supermop> ok soo 12:09:10 <supermop> fora post or devzone? 12:10:30 <supermop> hmm V not around 12:18:15 <Samu> http://pastebin.com/iYK3FASg 12:20:36 <supermop> ok: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1141740#p1141740 12:20:52 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-249-192.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: that doesn't look quite right 12:21:05 <Eddi|zuHause> ... 12:21:18 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-249-192.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 12:21:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: that doesn't look quite right 12:21:44 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:21:55 <Samu> I'm not lagging at the momen 12:22:12 <Samu> but I still get those results 12:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, that clearly shows canada... 12:25:36 <Samu> makes me think these trace route programs being useless 12:25:51 <Samu> it shows tons of packet loss, but I'm not lagging now 12:27:31 <Samu> even 10.27.0.1 gets packet loss, 1 out of 1280 12:27:35 <Samu> meh 12:27:40 <andythenorth> new FIRS is new 12:27:49 <Eddi|zuHause> low packet loss you can ignore 12:28:01 <andythenorth> eh how do I maintain stable branch, whilst completely rewriting FIRS? 12:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> itS the double digit % i would worry about 12:28:05 <andythenorth> there will be bugs and translations 12:28:25 <supermop> good night all 12:28:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but not all of them matter, either 12:28:32 <Samu> 10.27.0.1 is my modem 12:28:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so? 12:28:50 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:28:54 <Samu> why would it have packet loss 12:29:01 <Eddi|zuHause> solar wind... 12:29:06 <Samu> i'm connecting with a ethernet cable 12:29:12 <andythenorth> packets go missing 12:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> spontaneous radioactive decay 12:30:18 <Eddi|zuHause> or a plain and simple collision 12:30:24 <andythenorth> cheap switch 12:30:26 <andythenorth> hot switch 12:30:31 <andythenorth> bad ethernet cable 12:30:36 <andythenorth> bad connection 12:30:41 <andythenorth> bad shielding 12:30:46 <andythenorth> crosstalk 12:30:56 <Samu> bad shielding? 12:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, "1 out of 1280" is completely and utterly irrelevant 12:31:38 <andythenorth> theoretical case: run a sub-standard ethernet cable next to a mains supply 12:31:54 *** xT2 [~ST2@118.107.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 12:31:55 <andythenorth> itâs 0.07% 12:32:16 <andythenorth> pff 12:32:38 <andythenorth> on a contended wifi network it could be 20% 12:33:21 * andythenorth ponders mercurial branch management 12:33:31 <andythenorth> does eints only use stable for a project? 12:34:10 <Samu> the ethernet cable shouldn't be the issue 12:34:16 <Samu> it's quite long though, 15 meters 12:35:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'm sure eints can be configured for a specific branch 12:35:53 <dreck> if noone minds a second topic: should a powerplant be able to accept both coal and oil or only one or other in term of cargo vectors on map? 12:36:07 <andythenorth> probably can just do ârebuild FIRSâ in a branch 12:36:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: 15m is not long 12:36:14 <andythenorth> leave stable alone for fixes and translations 12:36:29 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-179-139.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:37:06 <andythenorth> Iâm going to fat-finger it and commit to wrong branch though 12:37:13 <andythenorth> and thereâs no safe way back in hg from that :P 12:37:23 <Eddi|zuHause> dreck: i'd consider it bad style if an industry randomly flips off an input cargo, rather make two types of power plant industry then 12:37:43 <Samu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity) 12:38:10 <andythenorth> hmm, my git is configured to show current branch in shell prompt 12:38:17 <andythenorth> must be able to make hg do that 12:38:49 *** ST2 [~ST2@118.107.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:38:49 *** xT2 is now known as ST2 12:38:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that should be configurable in your shell, not in git/hg 12:38:59 <andythenorth> seems so 12:39:04 <andythenorth> according to google results 12:39:17 <andythenorth> dunno how itâs done for git 12:39:34 <Samu> there is no ground 12:39:41 <andythenorth> export GIT_PS1_SHOWDIRTYSTATE=1 12:39:41 <andythenorth> PS1='\h:\W \u$(__git_ps1) $ ' 12:39:42 <Samu> erm dunnot how to say it in english 12:39:51 <andythenorth> whatâs that do then? ^^ :D 12:40:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: there is usually a ground built into your electric cables, and the ethernet cable's shielding should be connected to ground as well 12:40:49 <Samu> no grounding wire? 12:41:04 <Samu> well, that's the issue 12:41:24 <Samu> there is no grounding wire on the wall power thing 12:42:07 <Eddi|zuHause> ermm... that should probably not happen 12:43:03 <Samu> what's an ethernet cable shield? 12:43:14 <planetmaker> if there's no earth wire in the mains socket... then you have a problem :) 12:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: if your house is cabled incorrectly, you should probably hire an electrician to fix it 12:43:28 <andythenorth> I wouldnât go poking too much to find out either 12:43:45 <andythenorth> hmm 12:43:51 <andythenorth> seems I have to install hg-prompt 12:43:59 <andythenorth> donât like installing random things from the internet :( 12:44:05 <Samu> ah planetmaker knows the terms, the main socket has no earth wire 12:44:21 <Samu> it plugs my monitor and computer 12:44:22 <andythenorth> how interesting 12:44:38 <andythenorth> thatâsâŠunusual, in the UK at least 12:44:53 <Samu> but, on the other side of the house, my modem is plugged in a properly earth wired socket 12:45:19 <Samu> terrible english 12:45:24 <Samu> hope you undestand 12:46:37 <dreck> eddi I was also thinking that coal-firing and oil-firing probably look very different (coal having old style big chimney while oil having a few thin "tubes" reaching to the sky) too :) 12:46:40 <dreck> thanks anyway :) 12:47:24 <Samu> there's 2 sockets, modem is plugged in a earth-wired socket, computer is plugged in a non earth-wired socket, then the ethernet cables connects computer to modem, a 15 meters long cable 12:47:40 <Samu> cable* 12:47:44 <planetmaker> andythenorth, you do not need hg-prompt. Just use proper output of hg log -l1 -r. --template='(whatever)' 12:47:51 <planetmaker> hg help revset 12:47:56 <planetmaker> to see what template eats 12:48:38 <andythenorth> and to make my shell show that? Something in bash_profile? 12:48:40 <Samu> computer shocks to my touching 12:48:56 <planetmaker> same as you modify your shell prompt for other occasions 12:48:59 <planetmaker> I'd think 12:49:26 <planetmaker> http://sjl.bitbucket.org/hg-prompt/quickstart/ 12:49:35 <planetmaker> ^ that way. Just use hg log instead of hg prompt 12:49:48 <andythenorth> thanks 12:50:42 <andythenorth> ok, that looks viable thanks 12:51:41 <andythenorth> wow many options :o 12:52:08 <Eddi|zuHause> http://felix.delattre.de/weblog/2015/01/29/surveillance-as-a-service 12:57:20 <planetmaker> hg log --template='{branch}-{rev} {if(tags," ({tags})")} {if(bookmarks," ({bookmarks})")}' -l1 12:57:40 <planetmaker> ^ andythenorth 12:57:52 <andythenorth> ho 12:57:54 <andythenorth> will try thanks :) 12:57:59 * andythenorth was learning shell the hard way :( 12:58:05 <andythenorth> echo doesnât print spaces :P 12:58:34 <andythenorth> nice 13:00:33 <andythenorth> changed it a bit 13:00:36 <andythenorth> results in 13:00:36 <andythenorth> pdq2s-MacBook-Pro-2 in ~/Documents/OTTD_graphics/FIRS/firs_build (default) r4109 (tip) 13:00:54 <andythenorth> makes branches a bit less dangerous 13:09:38 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:10:49 <andythenorth> hmm 13:10:52 <andythenorth> shows the wrong branch 13:11:30 <andythenorth> have to do âsource ~/.bash_profileâ when switching branch 13:14:15 <Eddi|zuHause> then you inserted the check in the wrong place (not that i would know where the right place is)# 13:14:24 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 13:14:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't fiddled with prompt settings since DOS... 13:14:43 <andythenorth> I suspect the shell command is only running once 13:14:48 <andythenorth> shell is arcane 13:20:18 <planetmaker> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbdzg6mya <-- that hg prompt was a good pointer though. I now use this prompt 13:20:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:51:37 *** dreck [~oftc-webi@bas1-ottawa08-1176110546.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [] 13:52:43 *** deniz1a [~kvirc@78.181.133.206] has joined #openttd 13:53:00 <deniz1a> hello. 13:53:17 <deniz1a> is there a project to rewrite openttd in c# called sharpttd? 13:53:30 <deniz1a> with 3d graphics? 13:55:42 <__ln__> hahaha 13:57:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:57:53 <deniz1a> why? 13:57:55 <andythenorth> planetmaker: what happens with your prompt if you switch branch? 13:58:45 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I adopted it a bit: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pblbfudej 13:59:19 <planetmaker> an earlier version might not always have behaved gracefully :) 14:00:21 <andythenorth> yeah your paste works for me 14:01:07 <andythenorth> so itâs checking hg st for results? 14:01:12 <andythenorth> and updating if something changed? 14:01:17 * andythenorth is not good at shell 14:01:18 <planetmaker> no, that not 14:01:36 <planetmaker> that's just to find out whether I'm in a repo at all (and to skip that stuff when not) 14:01:40 <andythenorth> ah 14:01:49 <planetmaker> it's only updated when you enter the prompt, e.g. when it's printed 14:03:13 <andythenorth> wondering why my version needed bash_profile reloaded to show changes 14:04:26 <planetmaker> that was a wonderful idea anyway, andythenorth :) 14:05:00 <andythenorth> for ${reasons} Iâve been scared away from branches in hg 14:05:08 <andythenorth> which makes it seem very painful to use 14:05:19 <andythenorth> I think the reasons are bogus 14:05:50 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.113.147] has joined #openttd 14:05:55 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 14:06:50 <planetmaker> hg bookmars ~= git branches 14:07:03 <planetmaker> hg branches != anything in git 14:07:14 <planetmaker> hg branches are more persistant 14:07:35 <planetmaker> however using them does not hurt, if you name them thoughtfully :) 14:07:55 <planetmaker> doesn't hurt at all 14:08:04 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.113.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:10:04 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.182.112] has joined #openttd 14:10:58 <andythenorth> maybe I need to learn bookmarks 14:11:31 <andythenorth> with git, we have master <- milestone branch <- feature branch <- (decomposed parts of feature branch, quite rare) 14:12:25 <deniz1a> someone posted this screenshot in the forums: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=80484 14:14:22 * andythenorth reads about bookmarks 14:14:49 <deniz1a> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=80696 14:15:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:15:09 <__ln__> deniz1a: i bet the hardest part of it is not yet done, and won't be done. 14:15:39 <deniz1a> oh and it was posted in 2007... 14:16:38 <__ln__> my point exactly 14:17:07 <deniz1a> so is anyone planning on adding 3d to openttd? 14:17:42 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 14:21:14 <__ln__> i doubt it can be "added" without rewriting huge portions of the codebase. 14:22:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A190E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:31 <deniz1a> so is that planned? 14:23:40 <__ln__> nope. 14:24:02 <deniz1a> do you mean nope as in no or as maybe? 14:25:06 <__ln__> i heard there's one deniz1a person on irc who is planning it. 14:25:10 <deniz1a> if the codebase was modular maybe 3d could be added without rewriting non-graphical parts 14:26:17 <__ln__> that's a big if 14:26:37 <deniz1a> yes i am planning on writing 3d openttd. but to create it, first i have to learn programming 14:26:56 <deniz1a> i like to plan far ahead 14:27:44 <__ln__> besides, openttd is already 3d for some definition of 3d. 14:28:21 <deniz1a> also a strategic zoom feature would be great, where you could zoom out all the way and see the whole map with buildings and vehicles as icons 14:28:42 <deniz1a> yes terrain is 3d but you cant rotate and tilt the camera 14:29:24 <deniz1a> think about attaching the camera to a train and following it from its perspective 14:32:35 <deniz1a> ok different idea: how about adding multiple layers? so on top layer you have trains and trucks, in a lower layer for example you have subway? 14:32:50 <deniz1a> you would switch layers in the viewport 14:34:27 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/3d/tunnel.png ? 14:34:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 14:34:56 <deniz1a> oh that's great. is it a feature being developed? 14:36:13 <planetmaker> no(t exactly) 14:36:27 <andythenorth> smatz madness :) 14:36:47 <planetmaker> the closest there currently is, is a 3-year-old attempt to prepare the map for more layers: http://icosahedron.de/openttd/git/newmap.git 14:41:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:42:28 <Belugas> hello 14:51:39 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:53:31 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:58:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:04:39 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: if you're longing for a 3D TTD, maybe you should check out Train Fever. 15:05:09 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably the closest you're going to get in the next decade... 15:05:41 <andythenorth> crowd-funded, money, active development 15:05:47 <deniz1a> oh i checked it and didnt look that good. at least from screenshots etc 15:05:48 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: next 2 decades 15:05:59 <andythenorth> 3D OTTD will look bloody awful 15:06:10 <deniz1a> why would it? 15:06:23 <andythenorth> for the same reason that most newgrfs look awful 15:06:41 <andythenorth> high quality game art takes time, skill, and probably money 15:06:54 <deniz1a> actually creating 3d objects could be easier than drwing 2d sprites 15:07:18 <andythenorth> itâs subjectively easier 15:07:27 <andythenorth> faster to get results 15:07:31 <andythenorth> are the results good? 15:07:32 <andythenorth> unlikely 15:07:37 <deniz1a> and as textures maybe you could use photos from real world trains etc 15:07:49 <andythenorth> that looks terrible 15:07:58 <deniz1a> what looks terrible? 15:08:09 <andythenorth> unprocessed photos as textures 15:08:22 <deniz1a> ok i just thought about it 15:08:27 <deniz1a> to make it easier 15:08:34 <Eddi|zuHause> photos are probably the worst way to go... 15:08:49 <andythenorth> Train Fever is the way to go 15:08:59 <andythenorth> I know at least one person who is currently addicted 15:09:20 <Eddi|zuHause> there are a few UI troubles that keep me from getting addicted... 15:09:25 <andythenorth> they might fix them 15:09:35 <andythenorth> apparently there is a community building around it (havenât looked) 15:10:21 <deniz1a> but it's not open source 15:10:36 <deniz1a> so it will be stuck like it is 15:10:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not stuck... 15:11:11 <deniz1a> The game is a single-player game designed for 20 hours of gameplay in which the story-time runs from 1850 until 2050 15:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and who knows, if they get tired of developing it, they might open source it 15:11:18 <deniz1a> so no multiplayer? 15:11:27 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:38 <andythenorth> multiplayer is hard 15:12:06 <Eddi|zuHause> games like this are inherently single player... 15:12:08 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 15:12:29 <Eddi|zuHause> like maybe 0.01% of all openttd players ever played multiplayer 15:12:41 <deniz1a> why? you compete with other companies 15:13:06 <deniz1a> but those 0.01 % are the most awesome ones 15:13:24 <andythenorth> looks like active modding community for TF 15:13:27 <Eddi|zuHause> if you think from a commercially viable standpoint, it's probably wasted effort... 15:13:31 <andythenorth> probably more active than OTTD 15:14:15 <andythenorth> although it might be mostly requests :o 15:14:19 <deniz1a> what's wasted effort? 15:14:43 <andythenorth> multiplayer 15:14:49 <deniz1a> why? 15:14:56 <deniz1a> it's fun 15:15:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: if you take openttd's multiplayer mode, it takes a huuuuuge number of development hours to implement it, and keep it maintained 15:15:45 <deniz1a> actually if the economy in openttd was right, there could be tournaments and such 15:16:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that will never ever happen. 15:16:12 <deniz1a> why not? 15:16:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "the economy" is unfixable on that level 15:16:38 <deniz1a> not with that attitude 15:16:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, go ahead and do it. we'll see you in 10 years when you're done. 15:17:03 <deniz1a> or it is unfixable with tht attitude 15:17:11 <deniz1a> ok 15:17:31 <__ln__> while you're at it, please fix the economic situation in greece. 15:17:37 <deniz1a> actually fixing the economy is very easy. you just tweak the already present parameters 15:17:58 <deniz1a> i will fix world economy after i implement 3d openttd 15:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that's the entire point. the "present parameters" are not enough to "fix" anything. the game is either impossible in the beginning, or trivial after a while 15:21:09 <deniz1a> it could be fixed like this: make cargo payments independent of distance and make each receiver industry have a processing capacity 15:21:29 <deniz1a> then make it possible for each company to set its own cargo payment rates to compete with other companies 15:21:45 <peter1138> Just make a different game. 15:21:49 <deniz1a> then implement some kind of a rule that prevents a single company overtaking everyone else 15:22:37 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: so, which part of that is a "present parameter"? 15:23:01 <deniz1a> well i used the word present rather loosely 15:23:15 <deniz1a> in that context it meant present-ish 15:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so, you're saying "if we lived in middle earth, we could fix greece's economy" 15:24:21 <deniz1a> well we can do that even while living on top of the earth 15:24:26 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that more constructive than me saying "it's unfixable"? 15:24:46 <deniz1a> it encourages development 15:25:02 <deniz1a> instills hope among the masses of openttd players 15:25:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you're missing the point how open source hobby projects work... 15:25:14 <deniz1a> who desperately yearn for that future 15:25:48 <Eddi|zuHause> "hope that somebody else does it" does not get ANYTHING done 15:26:26 <deniz1a> still better than saying it's impossible 15:27:05 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it is. 15:27:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you ever took more than 3 steps in that direction, you would realize it. 15:27:31 <deniz1a> it's not impossible, as i said it could be done in a newgrf 15:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause> a NewGRF does not allow you to set your own transportation fares either. 15:28:34 <deniz1a> there's no api to do that? 15:28:47 <deniz1a> then first we have to implement it! 15:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and who is "we"? 15:29:54 <deniz1a> we the people of openttd 15:30:03 <deniz1a> not me of course 15:30:09 <deniz1a> i mean the other people 15:31:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's exactly what i said before: NOBODY ELSE WILL DO IT. 15:32:08 <deniz1a> then i will do that before i implement 3d openttd and fix world economy 15:34:03 <peter1138> :D 15:34:10 <peter1138> Someone⢠15:39:28 <deniz1a> Someone⢠? 15:42:54 <deniz1a> bu think about it, how could we fix world economy if we can't even fix it in openttd? 15:45:57 <deniz1a> if we fix economy in openttd, we could say to the people of the world: look we fixed it in this game, see, it's easy 15:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause> there cannot ever be a sufficiently complex model that is both complete and consistent (vaguely after Gödel) 15:47:00 <deniz1a> so are you saying my assumption is unprovable? 15:47:52 <deniz1a> or not assumption but conjecture 15:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'm saying the economy is unfixable. 15:49:35 <deniz1a> so you're saying the above changes i mentioned are impossible to implement? 15:49:45 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'm saying the economy is unfixable. 15:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever you're going to implement, it won't fix the economy 15:50:12 <deniz1a> you mean the economy in the outside world? 15:50:38 <deniz1a> oh you're saying those changes wouldn't make the game better? 15:51:16 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no finite number of steps you can take to move the economy into a state that would be considered "fixed" 15:51:56 <deniz1a> but there are steps which would bring us closer to that unreachable goal? 15:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe, but they might as well just take us further away 15:53:03 <deniz1a> i say that there are changes which would improve the economy. even though they may not make it perfect 15:53:45 <Eddi|zuHause> because there's no metric about how "close" you are to that "fixed state", that's not even proven to exist as a limit 15:54:20 <deniz1a> but we can know the direction of that fixed state and any change that moves us towards it is an improvement 15:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> you said loads of things, but the condensed content is approaching 0 15:55:11 <deniz1a> from which direction? if it's approaching zero from negative infinity, then i'm making progress 15:55:45 <Eddi|zuHause> metrics are non-negative by definition 15:56:14 <deniz1a> so you don't like my ideas? 15:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'm saying so far there was nothing to like or dislike 15:57:23 <Eddi|zuHause> just a whole lot of empty phrases 15:57:32 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 15:57:35 <Eddi|zuHause> like marketing babble 15:58:43 <deniz1a> what's empty phrase? make cargo payment independent of distance and make receiver industries have processing capacity is easy to do 15:58:50 <deniz1a> and it already improves the economy 16:00:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that last line is the "empty phrase" 16:00:21 <deniz1a> oh ok 16:00:32 <deniz1a> it makes it more logical and realistic 16:01:12 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it doesn't. (that's me disliking your idea) 16:01:20 <deniz1a> think about it from the point of view of the coal mine owner for example 16:01:42 <deniz1a> he wants his coal to be shipped to a power station as quickly as possible 16:02:03 <deniz1a> so why would he pay you more money to transport it to the other side of the map? 16:02:19 <deniz1a> when there's a power station right next to it? 16:02:49 <Eddi|zuHause> we've had this discussion a hundred times: maybe his coal is so much better than the coal on the other side of the map? 16:03:17 <deniz1a> but that's not a parameter in game. if there were different qualities of coal then that would be ok 16:03:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and that's why the economy is unfixable. 16:04:02 <Eddi|zuHause> just imagine the effect of your suggestion: transporting coal for 5 tiles will get you a fortune with almost no cost 16:04:20 <deniz1a> if you implemented qualities and power stations payed more for higher quality then it would be ok 16:04:27 <__ln__> *paid 16:04:36 <deniz1a> oh yes 16:05:04 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 16:05:07 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:05:07 <deniz1a> exactly, but each power station would have a processing capacity 16:05:46 <deniz1a> so when the one next to the coal mine reaches full capacity, you would have to transport it to a farther away power station 16:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that different than the mine having a production capacity? 16:06:27 <deniz1a> because without it, you wouldnt need to expand across the map 16:06:37 <deniz1a> since the closest one brings the most profits 16:09:09 <Eddi|zuHause> let me rephrase your suggestion: you want to change the payment model from "you get paid for transporting stuff" to "you buy stuff from the mine and sell it to the inustry" 16:09:42 <deniz1a> no. but the mine pays you for your transport, right? 16:10:13 <Eddi|zuHause> that is unspecified, but more likely the power station would pay you for the transport 16:10:46 <deniz1a> ok, it doesnt matter. a power station would like coal from the closest mine. why would it pay more to bring from a far away one 16:11:08 <Alberth> different type of coal 16:11:23 <deniz1a> ok then that should be implemented. but currently, all coal is the same 16:12:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't say all coal is the same. you just don't get told 16:12:01 <Alberth> not at all, it has originating station 16:12:41 <deniz1a> ok so the coal from the same mine changes quality depending on how far you transport it? 16:13:00 <deniz1a> does coal get ripe in the hopper? 16:13:19 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: if you rent a car, you pay for how many days you rent it, and for how far you drive with it. 16:13:37 <deniz1a> but that's not analogous 16:14:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but it is. the mine/power station "rents" the space in your vehicle 16:14:41 <deniz1a> ok. then why do they rent one that transports from far away? they would pay most for the quickest delivery 16:15:07 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe their coal is so much cheaper that it offsets the higher transportation cost? 16:15:17 <deniz1a> but that's not in the game.. 16:15:29 <deniz1a> i'm talking about the current state of the game 16:15:41 <Eddi|zuHause> you buy your clothes from bangladesh, not from the next door manufacturer 16:15:51 <deniz1a> and the payment rate only says coal. not coal from this mine or that 16:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and the bangladesh clothes manufacturer buys its cotton from america, not from local farmers 16:16:18 <deniz1a> actually you would buy from next door if everything else was the same 16:16:26 <Alberth> deniz1a: please don't try to map the real world model onto the game, it doesn't work 16:16:32 <deniz1a> because transportation adds to the cost 16:16:54 <deniz1a> what else are you supposed to model it after? 16:17:10 <Alberth> nothing, it's a system on its own 16:17:34 <deniz1a> and i'm saying that system could be improved by changing it like that 16:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm saying that statement is wrong. 16:18:30 <deniz1a> the people who live in bangladesh get their clothes from next door heh 16:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the people from bangladesh most likely cannot afford the clothes they produce 16:19:13 <deniz1a> yeah that's right, that's why it's produced there 16:19:53 <Alberth> every model you program into the game is wrong. It only differs where the "wrong parts" are 16:19:55 <deniz1a> if their wealth would be equal to that of the destination country, there wouldnt be any point in manufacturing it there 16:20:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the people from bangladesh get to buy "brazil: world champion 2014" shirts 16:20:29 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: and how does "everybody has equal wealth" equal a "fixed economy"? 16:20:50 <deniz1a> when did i say everybody has equal wealth? 16:23:34 <deniz1a> so then answer this: why would the coal mine or the power station pay you more to transport coal far away than closer? 16:24:20 <Alberth> it takes you more effort and costs to transport it over a longer distance 16:24:42 <deniz1a> ok. but what does your increased effort bring to the industries? 16:25:11 <Alberth> coal from far away 16:25:29 <deniz1a> is the same as the one from the next door mine... 16:25:44 <Alberth> so? 16:26:02 <deniz1a> so why do they pay more to transport it more? they only want coal as fast as possible 16:26:48 <Alberth> how do you know that? industry doesn't give deadlines or times or so 16:27:27 <deniz1a> let's say you want to buy something. and there are two sellers of the same product. one of them is far away and the other is very close. you wouldn't buy from the far away seller and pay more transport costs 16:28:17 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 16:28:29 <Alberth> why not? you're assuming they want to minimize costs. nothing supports your claim, afaik 16:28:30 <deniz1a> you would buy from the closest seller, which would cost less for you and also be delivered quicker if everything else is the same 16:29:10 <deniz1a> every industry wants to minimize costs 16:29:21 <Alberth> deniz1a: congratulations, you have established that openttd economy is different than real economy 16:29:57 <deniz1a> not only different, it's not logical 16:30:37 <Eddi|zuHause> but your change would not make it more logical 16:30:37 <Alberth> in openttd, industry is happy to accept any cargo you bring to them, and they will pay you a good price 16:31:10 <deniz1a> it would make it more logical. industry would simply pay more for quicker delivery. 16:31:18 <Alberth> it's only non-logical if you assume money is scarce resource 16:31:19 <Eddi|zuHause> just a different kind of illogical 16:31:34 <deniz1a> ok 16:32:02 <deniz1a> so what do you say about 3d ? it would be better right? 16:32:15 <Eddi|zuHause> there is absolutely no reason for a "real" industry to have coal delivered "as quick as possible". the only thing that the industry is "it must be here when i need it" 16:32:38 <Alberth> what's the benefit ? 16:32:56 <deniz1a> ok. and if there are two options: deliver it from a close source or from far away, they would choose the close one 16:33:13 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: so what do you think about a lamborghini? it would be better right? 16:33:16 <deniz1a> i think there's no point in arguing since you don't want to understand 16:33:31 <Alberth> I rather have a more detailed simulation than pretty pictures tbh, you can get pretty pictures from almost any tycoon-ish game 16:33:36 <deniz1a> i would buy one from a next door dealer than a far away one 16:33:42 *** pxr [~Mychomize@46-236-110-230.customer.t3.se] has joined #openttd 16:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> what if the next door dealer is an asshole? 16:34:37 <deniz1a> does that affect the car? 16:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it affects the price you pay for it? 16:35:05 <deniz1a> if the product is the same i would buy the cheapest one 16:35:10 <Alberth> the car being the same everywhere, I value other properties more 16:35:12 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: Quitting.] 16:35:22 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe he refuses to sell to people unless $religion? 16:35:27 <deniz1a> but you pay more if you buy from far away 16:35:42 <Alberth> sure, but it makes me more happy 16:35:55 <deniz1a> oh then you should buy from there 16:35:57 <Eddi|zuHause> if the car costs 20 million $, do you care about 200$ or 500$ delivery fee? 16:36:08 <deniz1a> of course 16:36:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and if it costs 20 million $ in one place, but 19 million $ in the other place? 16:36:54 <deniz1a> then i would buy from the cheaper one 16:37:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and if your drug empire gives you so much money that you buy a new one every week, and crash it on some wall just for the fun of it? 16:37:54 <deniz1a> then i would stop buying 20 million dollar cars and fund openttd development instead 16:38:13 *** KouDy_ [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 16:38:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and what if the closer dealer takes 5 days to deliver, but the far away one 3 days? 16:38:39 <deniz1a> then of course, 3 day delivery is better. 16:38:52 <deniz1a> but if everything else is the same, you would prefer the closer one 16:39:00 <deniz1a> ok 16:39:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and how many thousands of dollars do you want to spend on a computer that is able to model all this in an openttd map with thousands of industries? 16:39:15 <deniz1a> so what do you think about the phrase "some such"? 16:39:23 <deniz1a> it's funny isn't it? 16:39:36 <Eddi|zuHause> what's wrong with it? 16:39:46 <deniz1a> nothing. it's funny to say 16:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> (keep in mind that almost nobody here is a native speaker) 16:40:02 <deniz1a> me neither 16:40:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't usually say things i write outloud 16:40:52 <deniz1a> oh you should try it 16:41:02 <deniz1a> some such 16:41:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and even then, there is nobody that would hear it. 16:41:43 <deniz1a> so in that case do you really exist? 16:41:43 <Eddi|zuHause> any word you say often enough sounds "funny" after some time 16:42:42 <deniz1a> ok when i implement these economy ideas you'll see it will be much better gameplay 16:44:36 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:45:56 <deniz1a> you'll test my version, right? 16:47:24 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, i love making statements about the empty set :) 16:47:31 <Alberth> :D 16:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the members of the empty set :p 16:48:30 <deniz1a> i will need people to support my patch. 16:48:51 <Alberth> make it good enough 16:48:54 <deniz1a> i'll say addi and alberth in irc agreed 16:48:59 <deniz1a> eddi 16:49:39 <Alberth> Make sure you post a link to the log 16:49:40 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 16:49:52 <deniz1a> ok 16:50:08 <deniz1a> or i could say "as was discussed on irc" 16:50:15 <deniz1a> no need to be specific 17:09:59 *** naliao [~Naliao@107-133-209-15.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 17:10:04 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 17:10:21 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:15:29 <Alberth> evenink 17:20:54 <andythenorth> Hi :) 17:20:58 <andythenorth> releasing is so meh 17:21:02 <andythenorth> where are the trumpets? 17:22:02 <Eddi|zuHause> tÀterÀtÀÀÀÀ 17:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause> www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TEGPelS3Ac 17:24:39 <andythenorth> eh not bad 17:24:50 <andythenorth> we should put that in every release post 17:24:52 <andythenorth> on autoplay 17:25:18 <Eddi|zuHause> there are more where that came from :p 17:25:34 <andythenorth> they look increasingly dubious 17:25:41 <andythenorth> judging by ârelated videos' 17:25:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not really looked at that 17:26:21 <Eddi|zuHause> also, your "related" may differ from mine 17:26:27 <andythenorth> yeah 17:26:41 <andythenorth> yours _probably_ filters out the nazi-esque stuff for starters, no? 17:26:54 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure about that 17:27:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but most of these things predate the nazis 17:28:13 <andythenorth> I read the wikipedia entry for that march :) 17:28:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i also don't know what you call nazi-esque 17:28:30 <andythenorth> âWaffen SS marchingâ 17:29:05 <andythenorth> and such 17:29:13 <andythenorth> with - my german isnât great - pro Hitler comments 17:29:19 <andythenorth> but then never read the YT comments anyway 17:29:35 <andythenorth> anyway, nice trumpets 17:30:05 <deniz1a> some such 17:31:14 *** deniz1a [~kvirc@78.181.133.206] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:40:58 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:45:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27129 trunk/src/lang/malay.txt (2015-01-30 17:45:13 UTC) 17:45:22 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:23 <DorpsGek> malay - 18 changes by im54 17:52:00 *** deniz1a [~kvirc@78.181.133.206] has joined #openttd 17:52:14 <andythenorth> herp, so how shall I refactor FIRS? Pile in and start, or think carefully for a day first? 17:54:29 <deniz1a> ok i have another idea 17:54:51 <deniz1a> how about making depots as stations? 17:55:06 <andythenorth> becauseâŠ? 17:55:26 <Alberth> I have seen that discussion before somewhere 17:55:27 <deniz1a> because trains just disappear into a one tile depot 17:55:47 <deniz1a> and a depot can have many trains at the same time 17:55:53 <deniz1a> yes i posted this in the forums 17:55:57 <Alberth> there are newgrf that have longer depots 17:56:16 <deniz1a> ok i'll look at it 17:56:17 <andythenorth> there should be more stuff like 1 tile depots 17:56:21 <Alberth> 3d openttd already done? 17:56:28 <andythenorth> and fewer realisms 17:56:49 <Alberth> 1 tile industries? 17:57:04 <Alberth> save a whole bunch of sprites 17:57:24 <Alberth> 1 tile cities 17:57:33 <Alberth> maybe a bit tricky for a bus 17:57:51 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:57:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:59:42 <deniz1a> 3d openttd in planning stage 17:59:55 <andythenorth> nobody bit on the refactoring question :P 17:59:58 <andythenorth> nvm 18:00:01 * andythenorth knows the answer 18:00:15 <Alberth> knowing you, you'll just start :) 18:00:20 <deniz1a> but what is the question? 18:00:22 <andythenorth> Iâll start reading 18:00:29 <andythenorth> and Iâll try and understand all the cases 18:00:41 <deniz1a> so what's the difference with bigger depots newgrf? 18:00:44 <andythenorth> before going anywhere near coding myself into a dead end 18:00:50 <deniz1a> it's just a graphical change? 18:00:59 <andythenorth> I quite like refactoring, refactoring is very different to âjust make it work' 18:01:16 <Alberth> yeah, refactoring can be quite fun 18:01:16 <deniz1a> it's like factoring but you do it again 18:01:33 <andythenorth> itâs more fun when you have a decent test suite :P 18:01:45 <Alberth> nah, you have users for that :p 18:01:46 <andythenorth> maybe Iâll put some asserts into FIRS at least 18:01:53 <deniz1a> so the bigger depot mod? 18:02:00 <andythenorth> small asserts are quite useful to catch common simple coder-erorr 18:02:04 <andythenorth> like typos :P 18:02:10 <Alberth> deniz1a: no idea, I am very happy with small depots 18:02:28 <deniz1a> anyone tried bigger depots mod? 18:02:32 <andythenorth> no idea, I would never see a reason to change depots :) 18:02:35 <andythenorth> try it? 18:02:40 <Alberth> I am sure someone has 18:02:40 <deniz1a> newgrf 18:03:01 <deniz1a> depots could be another form of station where trains get maintenance 18:03:12 <deniz1a> you would choose the length like normal stations 18:05:36 <Eddi|zuHause> <Alberth> 1 tile cities <-- sounds more like civilization 18:06:00 <Alberth> :D indeed, didn't think of that 18:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> herp, so how shall I refactor FIRS? Pile in and start, or think carefully for a day first? <-- well, i'd let a basic plan manifest in my head before starting 18:07:22 <Eddi|zuHause> during making it, the plan may change. but i always found it more productive to have that abstract target 18:08:19 <andythenorth> I normally get as far as making a list classes / subclasses, and other key data structures 18:08:27 <andythenorth> methods and templates I tend to make up as I go along 18:08:51 <andythenorth> identify the top level entities, the rest comes out in the wash 18:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> well, but that already takes the design decision away whether you want to go object oriented in the first place 18:11:48 <deniz1a> bigger depots dont seem to have any different functionality 18:11:53 <andythenorth> thereâs refactoring and refactoring :) 18:12:08 <deniz1a> dont forget the refactoring 18:12:28 <Alberth> I usually start by making a clone and do random code shuffling to get an understanding of where the problems are. Then I start again, doing it properly 18:13:49 *** deniz1a [~kvirc@78.181.133.206] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:14:16 <andythenorth> doesnât anybody do it by assuming that everything written by someone else needs rm -r ? 18:14:35 <andythenorth> that seems to be quite a common method 18:14:52 <andythenorth> it tends to lead to a refactoring-in of old bugs and loss of features 18:15:06 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't mean it's very productive 18:15:17 <andythenorth> but apparently it makes for cleaner, more modern code 18:15:43 <andythenorth> how about refactoring by buzzword? 18:15:48 <andythenorth> shall I do it in node.js? 18:15:57 <Alberth> sounds spiffy, how does that work? 18:16:27 <andythenorth> donât know yet 18:16:33 <andythenorth> Iâm sure it solves all problems though 18:16:39 <andythenorth> itâs the wave of the future 18:17:00 <andythenorth> refactoring-by-silver-bullet 18:17:16 <Alberth> ah, I wouldn't do it for less 18:17:52 <Alberth> what if the silver-bullet is made by someone else? 18:18:02 <andythenorth> depends if theyâre cool this week 18:18:15 <andythenorth> or if theyâre now all-of-our-problems-are-caused-by-x 18:18:32 <Eddi|zuHause> well, at least with gold bars it's common practice to melt them in and make a new one 18:18:55 <Alberth> nobody would pay money for an old bar 18:19:05 <andythenorth> I want new clean gold 18:19:17 <Eddi|zuHause> (the point of that is to make sure it's pure gold) 18:20:10 <Alberth> right, glad I don't have to do that sort of thing 18:22:15 * andythenorth should play Busy Bee 18:22:35 <andythenorth> Busy Bee is the reason we now have FIRS 1.4.2, instead of a repo that hasnât done anything interesting for 12 months 18:22:48 <andythenorth> progress begets progress 18:22:49 <andythenorth> etc 18:24:23 <Alberth> oh, what have I done? :) 18:38:10 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host44-14-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:39:31 <Wolf01> hi hi 18:41:26 <Alberth> hi hi 18:43:07 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01003e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:43:40 *** naliao [~Naliao@107-133-209-15.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:59:45 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@blfd-5d8223ef.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Yo.] 19:00:22 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:06 *** Progman [~progman@p57A190E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:08:01 <andythenorth> oic http://steamcommunity.com/games/227300/announcements/detail/127556162152347848 19:08:07 <andythenorth> there may be a short delay to newgrfs 19:08:51 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:54 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:07 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@2a00:6960:1:1:0:24:107:1] has joined #openttd 19:21:07 <Alberth> :) 19:21:33 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:21:34 <__ln__> http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/2tbb0n/in_super_mario_brothers_on_the_nes_you_can/ 19:25:58 *** quorzom [~quorzom@cable-78-35-98-177.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 19:28:12 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:33:44 <frosch123> Sylf: truebrain changed something about the index page. he considered disabling them, but i am not sure what was the final result 19:33:53 <frosch123> Sylf: ask him when he's back from snowboarding 19:38:16 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:49:06 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387abe1.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:59:46 *** xT2 [~ST2@118.107.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 20:05:49 *** ST2 [~ST2@118.107.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:05:49 *** xT2 is now known as ST2 20:06:13 *** Alex [~AlexG@2.218.73.170] has joined #openttd 20:06:20 <andythenorth> so eh, the NML constants âBLACK_HOLE | EXTRACTIVE | ORGANIC | PROCESSINGâ 20:06:42 <andythenorth> nvm 20:06:48 * andythenorth thinking out loud sorry 20:07:26 <andythenorth> wondering whether to reuse same terms in my compile (and extend new ones), or invent new terms 20:08:16 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.113.147] has joined #openttd 20:08:36 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.113.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:59 <andythenorth> Town, Mine, Farm, Processor, Harbour are probably bad choices 20:10:28 <Wolf01> they totally did it: http://img-9gag-ftw.9cache.com/photo/aGwKprG_460s.jpg 20:11:16 <andythenorth> is that new Need For Speed? 20:11:29 <Wolf01> maybe, I don't want to know 20:11:31 <andythenorth> I am playing Need For Speed ipad, itâs serious gold-farming 20:12:06 <andythenorth> I donât *have* to buy any DLC to complete anything so far, but there are a couple of difficulty cliffs which take hours of gold-farming to get a good enough car to pass 20:12:24 <andythenorth> then because I have an *awesome* car, then next 6 races just fall over easily 20:12:27 <andythenorth> then another cliff 20:12:35 <andythenorth> or I could just pay for the better car :P 20:12:40 <andythenorth> who is being farmed here? 20:13:20 <Wolf01> the patience 20:15:21 <Wolf01> btw, the avenger helicarrier is pointless... no Agent Coulson minifig :| 20:16:10 <andythenorth> :P 20:17:01 <andythenorth> ok, so FIRS town industries all have similar characteristics, they are coded as ottd black holes, but arenât strictly black holes because they can optionally produce (pax, mail and such). 20:17:04 <andythenorth> name for that? 20:17:20 <andythenorth> Black Hole is almost certainly misleading 20:23:38 <Wolf01> uhm, "you could put unlimited stuff inside it but occasionally something else come out" 20:23:52 <Wolf01> a sink? 20:24:03 <Wolf01> a stomach? 20:24:22 <andythenorth> apparently black holes might be leaky 20:24:25 <andythenorth> Leaky Hole 20:24:31 <andythenorth> is an unpleasant notion on any front 20:34:16 *** AlexG [~AlexG@2.218.73.170] has joined #openttd 20:36:39 <andythenorth> bizarre. Most of the interface (props) I need mimicks existing industry newgrf props, but with a different implementation. 20:36:47 <andythenorth> dunno if thatâs good, bad, or meh 20:37:10 <andythenorth> except that it means names in andythenorthâs codes look similar to names in nml or newgrf spec, but behave differently 20:38:04 *** Alex [~AlexG@2.218.73.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:40:11 <Wolf01> call it "MOUTH" Modular Output Unit for Transportation H[ole|angar|arbor|eap|...] 20:40:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "black hole" is to define industry opening/closing/growing behaviour 20:46:00 <andythenorth> I know :) 20:46:33 <andythenorth> the TTD industry model translates poorly to FIRS behaviour 20:46:59 <andythenorth> other names might be better 20:47:26 <frosch123> it's actually more important for funding/prospecting, and for silicon valley :) 20:48:03 <andythenorth> I have types which (not coincidentally) do use those type flags 20:48:22 <andythenorth> but probably I should invent new terms where additional behaviour is implied 20:48:57 <andythenorth> shop? fake house? town? 20:49:17 <andythenorth> what are the commonalities between: grocery store, hardware store, hotel, petrol station, builders yard? 20:49:50 *** pxr [~Mychomize@46-236-110-230.customer.t3.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:59 *** pxr [~Mychomize@46-236-110-230.customer.t3.se] has joined #openttd 20:50:35 <Wolf01> people 20:51:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if the mapping between your categories and the nml flags is 1:1, then it's pointless to introduce it 20:51:50 <andythenorth> the mapping does control production and closure in FIRS 20:52:11 <andythenorth> but itâs not 1:1 with the nml flags (or what the code in industry_cmd.cpp is doing) 20:52:36 <andythenorth> it also is the primary determinant of location 20:52:47 <andythenorth> and of supplies behaviour 20:53:05 <andythenorth> so Iâd be overloading the nml terms, I think 20:53:34 <andythenorth> probably is worth getting this right, or I spend the next 5 years saying âno, black hole in FIRS is not same as black hole in openttd' 20:54:00 <andythenorth> and confusing all people 20:59:07 *** Belugas [~belugas@00011985.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces] 20:59:54 *** AlexG [~AlexG@2.218.73.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:09:11 *** naliao [~Naliao@107-133-209-15.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 21:13:14 <andythenorth> frosch123: so FIRS ports etc use black hole. What will SV do with that? o_O 21:14:20 <andythenorth> not sure *why* theyâre black hole, probably reasons 21:16:11 *** dreck [~oftc-webi@166.62.182.125] has joined #openttd 21:16:14 <dreck> hi 21:21:09 *** Alex [~AlexG@2.218.73.170] has joined #openttd 21:22:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: start silicon valley and check the script debug window 21:23:06 <frosch123> it will tell you what cargos sv considers primary/secondary 21:24:33 <andythenorth> itâs got them right 21:24:48 <frosch123> yay :) 21:24:59 <andythenorth> ok so harbour industries donât touch it either way 21:25:11 <andythenorth> can stay black hole then 21:25:15 <andythenorth> even though they produce 21:28:14 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 21:32:01 <__ln__> do we know for sure that e.g. number 1 isn't irrational? especially if we imagine a number system where Ï is an integer? 21:32:08 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:33:35 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: do we know for sure that 1 is a number, if we consider a system where X is a number? 21:33:48 <__ln__> we don't 21:34:29 <frosch123> __ln__: is is perferctly fine to define a vector space with rational scalars, and base vectors 1, i, pi, e, sqrt(2) 21:35:30 <frosch123> you can swap the base vector symbols, it does not change anything 21:36:13 <Eddi|zuHause> also, pi is stupid, use tau 21:36:21 <frosch123> :) 21:36:42 <frosch123> does SI recommend tau meanwhile? 21:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not 21:37:42 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 21:38:13 <__ln__> the nobel prize for mathematics can be sent to my home address 21:38:33 <frosch123> you'll get all of them 21:39:13 <Eddi|zuHause> (again about the members of the empty set?) 21:39:24 <__ln__> i don't need the peace prize, i already have it, and i'm also not a war criminal 21:40:12 <frosch123> no, i mean that all awardees of the nobel prize for maths will transfer their prize to you 21:40:45 <__ln__> there's no nobel prize for maths, silly 21:41:13 <frosch123> how can you say that, if you own all of them? 21:41:14 <__ln__> which is the only plausible reason why i haven't been awarded it 21:42:21 <Wolf01> were you the one which demonstrate all odd numbers are prime? 21:42:49 *** Quatroking_ [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 21:42:58 <frosch123> physicians proofed that 21:43:12 <frosch123> *v 21:44:22 <Wolf01> it was eddi 21:45:01 <Wolf01> but yes, physicists 21:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "physician" is a doctor 21:46:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and i didn't prove it, i only repeated the proof 21:46:59 <Eddi|zuHause> there are a bunch of them 21:47:48 <frosch123> well, let's ask the important questions... is 1 prime? :p 21:48:03 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:49:04 <Eddi|zuHause> well. the short answer is: in almost all cases where "is X prime" matters, 1 is a number that shouldn't be included 21:57:26 *** naliao [~Naliao@107-133-209-15.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:09:56 * andythenorth puzzles about town industries 22:10:41 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/] 22:11:56 <andythenorth> maybe theyâre end points 22:16:14 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:a1a6:d151:185d:4dce] has quit [Quit: .] 22:16:18 *** naliao [~Naliao@107-133-209-15.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 22:16:42 *** itsatacoshop247_ [~itsatacos@c-76-102-167-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:17:33 <Alberth> processing industry would be much more fun, the mess of both bringing input cargoes and getting output cargoes out :) 22:17:51 <andythenorth> :P 22:18:12 <andythenorth> maybe v2.1 22:18:19 <andythenorth> it was considered 22:18:29 <Alberth> 'city economy' :) 22:18:32 <andythenorth> hotel produces pax 22:18:40 <andythenorth> originally shops etc would produce waste 22:18:43 <andythenorth> and mail or such 22:18:53 <andythenorth> got binned 22:19:18 <Alberth> accepting goods and food is very useful 22:19:41 <Alberth> it makes acceptance of them for small towns a lot easier 22:19:58 <Alberth> eg in tropical 22:20:08 <andythenorth> Iâm not planning to change them, just what to call their subclass in python :) 22:20:51 <Alberth> euhm, ok :) I didn't read most of the discussion, I just jumped in 22:20:58 <andythenorth> he 22:22:36 <andythenorth> maybe Town, but strictly thatâs an arbitraty location rule, specified per industry 22:22:47 <andythenorth> not unique to subclass or enforced by it 22:26:11 <Alberth> not sure I understand that, but it sounds good :) 22:26:12 <Alberth> gn 22:26:37 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 22:35:02 <FUZxxl> I have a feature request. 22:36:17 <FUZxxl> I want to have a priority signal. A signal that tells the path-finder to prefer this route if possible. The priority signal should not have aspects, it's just a hint to the path finder. 22:36:56 <FUZxxl> or the opposite, a subordination signal that imposes a penalty upon the route if the path-finder chooses to go through it 22:37:12 <FUZxxl> like if you go through a path signal the wrong way but without a path-signal 22:37:31 <FUZxxl> I want this so I can tell the path finder to give priority to certain platforms on a station. 22:38:27 <Wolf01> use presignals 22:40:02 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:40:53 <dreck> fuzxxl...openttd is missing that but ttdxp has exactly such feature for a long time 22:40:59 <dreck> just a note-like nitpick ^ 22:45:09 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:46:05 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 22:46:37 <Eddi|zuHause> you can use level crossings instead of path signals to add penalties 22:46:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and rails with speed limit might also work 22:48:54 <FUZxxl> speed limits? 22:49:03 <FUZxxl> Wolf01: how do pre-signals help here? 22:49:12 <frosch123> FUZxxl: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Priority <- using signals 22:49:21 <frosch123> but yeah, tracks with speed limits work as well 22:49:36 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that is a different kind of "priority" 22:49:44 <frosch123> the easiest method to apply a penalty is to put a reverse path signal 22:50:13 <Eddi|zuHause> FUZxxl: speed limits, like nutracks 22:50:31 <FUZxxl> ah 22:50:55 <FUZxxl> frosch123: yeah, but a path signal creates a safe stop and fucks up my signal trees 22:51:08 <frosch123> that's why you reverse it 22:51:34 <FUZxxl> yeah, but I need this most for terminus stations where trains go both ways 22:51:41 <FUZxxl> and I don't have space to place enough of them. 22:52:02 <frosch123> you can also use different platform lengths 22:52:12 <frosch123> the pathfinder will prefer platforms matching the train length 22:52:23 <frosch123> and avoid shorter ones, and dramatically avoid too short ones 22:52:29 <andythenorth> oh it does do that :) 22:52:34 <andythenorth> I thought Iâd seen that behaviour 22:52:38 <frosch123> *avoid longer ones 22:52:46 <andythenorth> but wasnât sure if correlation and causation were matched 22:53:42 <FUZxxl> hm... 22:53:52 <FUZxxl> making the platforms longer might do the trick... 22:54:09 <FUZxxl> still, the feature request stands. 22:56:59 <andythenorth> also bye 22:57:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:57:26 <FUZxxl> see you 22:58:50 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387abe1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 22:59:40 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a "longer per tile" penalty which defaults to 0, you can use that to further add penalties 22:59:51 <Eddi|zuHause> or to make them work for trains which are shorter anyway 23:01:25 <FUZxxl> ok 23:01:53 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01003e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 23:03:45 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:08:50 <Samu> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Priority 23:08:51 <Samu> wow 23:08:58 <Samu> i have a headache 23:10:13 <Samu> one that I will understand signals and priorities 23:10:18 <Samu> one day* 23:10:37 * dreck prefers to understand programmable signals but will leave that to our own merits 23:11:17 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:21 <Wolf01> I can't understand anything of ottdcoop, I'm playing with pbs and plain junctions, a bridge or a tunnel occasionally 23:11:59 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 23:12:11 <Samu> to this day I still don't understand how combo signals work 23:12:27 <Samu> combo/entry/exit 23:12:50 <Samu> they're key to something I plan to do 23:13:24 <dreck> samu well I use these when I'm not using restrict signals as to let multiply trains queue to a specific platform without sitting on the main/whatever line itself 23:14:48 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:15:24 <Samu> and then there's some lingo I can't follow 23:15:26 <Samu> pre-signal 23:15:33 <Samu> what's a pre-signal 23:15:46 <Samu> path signal? 23:15:55 <Wolf01> block signal 23:16:28 <Samu> the short one? 23:16:38 *** berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:16:55 <Wolf01> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6YTxSDjxvk 23:17:14 <Wolf01> no, the other three, the short one is just a block signal 23:18:36 <Samu> ah, the video shows a yellow-strip signal 23:18:40 <Samu> then white strip 23:18:45 <Wolf01> that's a pre-signal 23:18:48 <Samu> is it the combination of both? 23:18:57 <Samu> a set that makes you call pre-signal 23:20:20 <Samu> meh, I'm so confused 23:20:33 <Samu> brb 23:21:01 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 23:21:42 *** berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has joined #openttd 23:21:46 <Wolf01> 'night 23:21:54 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:22:52 <Eddi|zuHause> pre-signal is another name for the entry signal 23:25:07 <Samu> will it only work one-way? 23:26:00 <Samu> on that video, yellow strip first, then 3 white-strip signals are one-way, what about on the way back, how would I do it? 23:26:38 <Samu> i can't make use of the same track tiles? 23:28:44 <Samu> let me draw, brb 23:29:05 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:29:38 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:01 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 23:31:04 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [] 23:34:19 *** berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:36:14 *** berndj [~berndj@197.242.93.82] has joined #openttd 23:37:49 *** Endymion [~chatzilla@ool-457ebd88.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #openttd 23:39:12 <Endymion> Hi, silly question; is there anywhere that explains the difference between the "Original" Land Generator and TerraGenesis? 23:41:53 <Samu> original is better for arctic 23:42:03 <Samu> terragenesis is better for the others 23:42:08 <Samu> lele 23:42:13 <Samu> sorry, I don't know 23:43:54 <dreck> hmm would you consider tobacco a tropical-only or tropical/temperate climate thing? 23:44:23 *** berndj [~berndj@197.242.93.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:44:51 <ST2> tobacco-temperate / weed-tropical / meth-arctic (just a suggestion :D 23:45:12 <dreck> temperate? hmm thanks for the second opinion :) 23:46:10 <ST2> by nature requires temperate climates and lots of water - but talking by heart ^^ 23:46:21 <Samu> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!706&authkey=!ACKHadWqN3-WO44&v=3&ithint=photo%2cpng 23:46:24 <Samu> does not work 23:47:01 <dreck> st2 that does make sense..cheers 23:47:11 <ST2> yw :) 23:47:20 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 23:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Endymion: the original land generator has a limited set of hills that it can place at random places on the map, where the terragenesis generator uses random noise to generate hills 23:48:11 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 23:48:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Endymion: this may make original maps look more rectangle-shaped and terragenesis maps more roundish 23:49:09 <Samu> so, my signals fail 23:49:15 <Samu> I followed a video tutorial 23:49:18 <Samu> it fails on me 23:49:33 <Samu> or it doesn't work both ways 23:50:49 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:51:01 <Eddi|zuHause> that picture doesn't load. 23:51:15 <Samu> it's syncing? 23:51:19 <Samu> should be ready 23:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> no, is just an empty page 23:51:46 <Endymion> Samu. Eddi: Cool. I've been playing with it, and that really answers the questions I've had. 23:52:15 *** berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has joined #openttd 23:52:31 <Samu> try direect image link: https://pc4i4w.dm2304.livefilestore.com/y2pKEGLurMdGZ1p7yV9JxCPrrFLw1NpaxI1Y6wdDmiysdZzK1_9Uw8Ziq3Ow7xCQQwtpgOl7yn3eruVUebk9C4uPewfePAyWxCGCG_VmN5dzPkZY0ithd6XDRX_FGpeCszXUcnFuO-x1m0W_IALnDtf-g/twitch.tv_xarickpreto%20Transport%2C%201999-10-27.png?psid=1 23:53:13 <Eddi|zuHause> that works 23:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and yes, those signals are the wrong way around. 23:54:52 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the signal on the station is useless, remove it. 23:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause> also, just use path signals. 23:55:23 <Samu> i tryed this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6YTxSDjxvk 23:55:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i won't watch that 23:55:40 <Samu> to replicate it, but for going both ways 23:55:55 <Eddi|zuHause> presignals never work both ways 23:57:14 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]