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00:09:13 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:22 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.40.128.42] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC - custom made irc client. [www.adiirc.com]] 00:23:19 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-4d082e7d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 00:29:12 <dreck> oh yeah now I remember why I asked about refit.. 00:30:20 <dreck> I know there could be some possible issues with gameplay visual (especially if you bought a wagon thinking it was good for one speed but found out that with the cargo you wanted it actually runs slower) but I take it that wagon refit could affect its maximum speed if wanting to tho right? 00:33:00 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you probably shouldn't. for sanity's sake 00:35:37 <dreck> yeah beside openttd doesn't have physics built in so noone would notice the superheavy cargo burning off the red hot axle bearings ;) 00:35:45 <dreck> (silly idea I know) 00:36:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i never really got the UKRS way of making each wagon a different speed 00:36:32 <dreck> also doing only 2kph uphill is another thing thats just a in-game thing for you 00:36:34 <Eddi|zuHause> in my world, all wagons of the same generation have the same speed 00:36:52 <dreck> eddi uk always had odd things so no comment 00:37:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i think my generations are like 35/60/90/120 00:38:00 <Eddi|zuHause> or something 00:39:51 <dreck> the one small sane thing I've liked for myself gameplay-wise is brake systems tho..mainly re running a slow train with manual brakes or if you want to get ten wagons up to 70kph you'll have to either initially use a brakecar or later utilize airbraked type wagons instead 00:40:04 <dreck> mm that sounds like a decent four generations of wagon there eddi 00:41:04 <Eddi|zuHause> there might be 5 or 6 generations 00:42:36 <Eddi|zuHause> 1870|1910|1930|1950|1970|? 00:44:00 <Eddi|zuHause> after 1970 you don't find a lot of development anymore, except some niche high speed thingies for packaged stuff [mail] 00:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause> or containers 00:45:34 <dreck> 1970+ hmm .. well I'll have to agree 00:45:50 <dreck> there is still always some particular articlated wagonsets but these are relatively niche 00:45:58 <dreck> articulated* 00:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause> passenger wagons have a similar problem with development shifting to MUs 00:48:14 <dreck> the usa road-rail trailer thing is one rather interesting niche idea tho. problem for openttd is that openttd can't recognize how to physically move a wagon from the rail to the road :) 00:48:20 <dreck> heh 00:49:24 <dreck> probably best for openttd to stick to the europe-style super-long speciality flatcars where lorries and/or only-the-trailer are parked onto it 00:51:15 <dreck> I only found the shorter version but http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-32Kie9tyvMY/T6_7Ljx4grI/AAAAAAAABeo/lOkGCtwH26s/s1600/Lorry+Rail+full+train.jpg (just in case anyone here was wondering) 00:56:19 <dreck> btw I don't have anything for or against them but sometimes an *MU is not always my favorite thing 00:57:19 <dreck> especially regarding flexible consist for different times of day etc ... or just due to construction prices (hmm then again its no surprise that quite a lot of japan trains are made up of a healthy ratio of powered and unpowered pieces) 01:17:04 <dreck> still have to clean up my locomotives list a bit but ah who cares...let it take as long as it need to :P 01:38:59 *** dreck [~oftc-webi@166.62.182.125] has left #openttd [] 01:50:32 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.101.93] has joined #openttd 02:24:39 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:39 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has quit [Quit: Este é o fim.] 02:40:42 <supermop> yo 02:45:40 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has joined #openttd 02:47:53 *** itsatacoshop247_ [~itsatacos@c-76-102-167-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:19:27 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@blfd-4d08309d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 03:26:26 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-4d082e7d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:40:59 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:41:43 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has quit [Quit: Este é o fim.] 03:46:44 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has joined #openttd 04:05:11 *** samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-249-192.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:59:11 *** quorzom [~quorzom@cable-78-35-98-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67BD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5AE2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:57:51 <supermop> i think after a few more bits of road im just going to model coffee apparatus in stead 06:06:19 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:20 <Supercheese> So, a filter, a cone to hold the filter, and a carafe? That's my coffee apparatus 06:07:40 <Supercheese> also a grinder, but that's ancillary 06:07:52 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 06:16:26 *** Flygon__ is now known as Flygon 06:43:39 <supermop> need a 3d print some upgrades to my hand grinder 06:44:13 <supermop> but i am envisioning some modular stand/bracket/tower system 06:45:03 <supermop> i usually use v60 cone and kono carafe, but sometimes mix it up with an aeropress 06:45:13 <supermop> but the aeropress looks cheesy 06:45:58 <supermop> so i can make some glass and metal version, and have it mount in a small tower like a cold drip set up 06:46:27 <supermop> switch out parts and use the same tower for cold brew, or to hold a cone, or to hold the ginder? 06:48:07 <supermop> first step is get some thing to clamp grinder to wall or counter, then some gears to orient the crank vertically 06:48:41 <supermop> then make it so other apparatus can mount into the same system 07:04:25 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-20-9.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:12:57 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:70cf:904a:e534:a6fe] has joined #openttd 07:18:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6D5F5.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 07:22:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6DC27.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:29:33 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-8-26.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 07:51:44 *** Ketsuban [~thomas@2.216.180.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:53:19 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:57:52 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 08:07:52 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.109.7] has joined #openttd 08:18:13 <peter1138> Did someone mention coffee? 08:37:12 <V453000> beer 08:37:15 <V453000> java 08:37:25 <V453000> vehicle parts 08:37:37 <V453000> manufacturing supplies 08:38:11 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:45:01 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:50:16 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-5d876ff9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 08:58:34 <planetmaker> moin 09:16:47 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 09:19:57 <Celestar> good day :) 09:20:35 *** Ketsuban [~thomas@2.216.180.69] has joined #openttd 09:27:40 <planetmaker> o/ 09:29:55 <Xaroth|Work> o/ 09:36:48 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-5d876ff9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:39:21 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71-8-126-76.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:41:14 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71-8-126-76.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #openttd 09:47:46 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has joined #openttd 09:58:23 <__ln__> @seen Celestar 09:58:23 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Celestar was last seen in #openttd 38 minutes and 26 seconds ago: <Celestar> good day :) 09:58:39 <Celestar> ? 09:58:47 <__ln__> oh, hi :) 09:59:00 <Celestar> how ya doing? 09:59:04 <__ln__> nvm, i didn't notice you spoke already and wondered when the last time was 09:59:28 <__ln__> i'm operating within normal parameters 10:41:56 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has joined #openttd 10:45:37 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 10:49:26 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:49:38 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has joined #openttd 10:51:45 *** itsatacoshop247_ [~itsatacos@c-76-102-167-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:25:27 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 11:28:58 <Sacro> omfg it's Celestar 11:29:20 <Sacro> What next, DarkVater and Bjarni? 11:31:02 <Celestar> haha :P 11:32:06 <planetmaker> Sacro, now, don't exagerate :P 11:32:27 <Sacro> it'd be like 1998 in here 11:48:19 *** samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-249-192.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 11:48:25 <samu> hi 11:52:53 *** deniz1a [~kvirc@78.181.133.206] has joined #openttd 11:52:59 <deniz1a> hello 11:53:22 <deniz1a> what's a .grf file? 11:53:43 <Sacro> deniz1a: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=what%27s+a+grf+file&oq=what%27s+a+grf+file&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2071j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8 11:54:31 <deniz1a> why does openttd use a format from Microsoft GraphEdit? 11:55:05 <Ketsuban> It doesn't. 11:55:52 <deniz1a> but sacro said it does 11:56:11 <deniz1a> are you calling sacro a liar? 11:56:26 <Sacro> You're asking a question with many possible answers 11:56:55 <deniz1a> ok. what ii mean is, why arent graphics base sets not in plain png and text files? 11:57:12 <Ketsuban> Hysterical raisins. 11:57:22 <Sacro> inefficiency 11:57:23 <deniz1a> heh ok 11:58:56 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 11:59:10 <deniz1a> does .grf file include some other stuff? 12:00:33 <deniz1a> wouldnt it be better to simplify the addon interface? 12:00:52 <Ketsuban> Probably, but AIUI the devs don't want to break compatibility. 12:01:23 <deniz1a> there could still be converters to old .grf files 12:01:39 <deniz1a> and back probably? 12:03:29 <deniz1a> there doesnt seem to be a feature request to replace .grf s with simple text and graphics files 12:06:02 <deniz1a> so are you saying i should make this a feature request? 12:06:13 <Ketsuban> Everyone is pretty happy with GRFs, all in all. Masochists can keep writing NFO files, the rest of us can learn NML, and the openttdcoop people can keep writing Makefiles that don't work on anyone else's computer and read like line noise. 12:07:17 <Ketsuban> I may or may not be biased from personal experience trying to make a patch for one of their projects. :) 12:07:23 <deniz1a> and why is there a special language just for openttd scripts? 12:07:33 <Ketsuban> Hysterical raisins. 12:08:17 <Ketsuban> The problem with your feature request is that your proposed text files would just be another kind of special language. 12:08:28 <deniz1a> maybe we should break compatibility with hystery 12:08:29 <Ketsuban> It's not like there's an ISO standard for transport simulation games. 12:08:54 <deniz1a> there doesn't need to be. there are general scripting languages like lua or something else 12:09:52 <Ketsuban> What are the pros of embedding Lua that counterbalance the cons of requiring new code be written and breaking compatibility with TTDPatch and all currently-available mods? 12:10:45 <deniz1a> the advantage would be easier add-ons. they would just be graphic files and their accompanying text script files 12:10:52 <deniz1a> you could directly see them 12:11:17 <Ketsuban> If you write NML then you can directly see them in your source directory. 12:11:37 <deniz1a> but arent they also made into .grf? 12:11:59 <deniz1a> when i download a newgrf file i cant see its contents without special tools, right? 12:12:06 <Ketsuban> Sure. 12:12:12 <deniz1a> how? 12:12:30 <Ketsuban> I dunno, I'm not into reverse-engineering other peoples' mods. 12:12:53 <Ketsuban> But I'm okay with it being a modder's decision whether you get to see the human-readable resource files for their work or not. 12:12:59 <deniz1a> what about your own? can you see the contents of your newgrf mods without any tools? 12:13:15 <Ketsuban> Sure. http://github.com/Ketsuban/random-english-town-names 12:13:25 <deniz1a> so the purpose of .grf is to obfuscate the code? 12:13:52 <deniz1a> ok that's great but that's not a .grf file 12:14:01 <Ketsuban> "Purpose" is misleading - it was originally to speed up access on 90s computers. That's the only relevant function it still has, yes. 12:14:26 <Ketsuban> Yes, I use a compiler (nmlc) to produce the grf file. 12:14:40 <Ketsuban> The same way if I write Rust code I use a compiler (rustc) to produce an executable. 12:14:46 <deniz1a> so why is it even necessary to compile these addons 12:14:54 <deniz1a> ok just to speed it up? 12:14:56 <Ketsuban> Historical reasons. What I say three times is true. 12:15:05 <deniz1a> but i guess that's not necessary with today's computers 12:15:36 <Ketsuban> It's not, but the code is already there and there's a community set up to make compiling GRFs painless, so the opportunity cost for not using Lua or whatever is amortised. 12:16:14 <deniz1a> but there could be converters for .grf to lua and new development could be done in lua 12:16:22 <deniz1a> and the add-ons would be png+plain text 12:16:31 <deniz1a> easier to see the contents and modify 12:17:06 <Ketsuban> Except seeing the contents and modifying them is already easy. I can edit a plaintext NML file, and the graphics are PNG files. 12:18:15 <Ketsuban> You're really just complaining it's mildly annoying to edit a mod you already got off Bananas. Open-source people would suggest you use the source they already made available, and closed-source people object to you wanting to mess with their code in the first place. 12:20:07 <deniz1a> or python could also be used instead of lua 12:20:43 <deniz1a> but i dont get the nml file when i doanload a newgrf. i only get .grf files 12:22:29 <deniz1a> actually you can even compile python if you give types to variables and it runs almost as fast as c 12:22:51 <deniz1a> it's called cython 12:23:34 <deniz1a> so you could have the benefits of both: fast compiled runtime+easy readable text files 12:24:11 <deniz1a> or no if you compile it you still dont get the source. but it could be like this: you download the source and the game compiles it the first time it uses the addon 12:26:26 <planetmaker> orudge, any news on http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=71543&start=40 date(s)? 12:26:43 <deniz1a> and i think lua can also be compiled? 12:27:48 <planetmaker> <deniz1a> wouldnt it be better to simplify the addon interface? <-- getting rid of some historical quirks would be nice; however it wouldn't really get simpler, if you want to have the possibilities NewGRFs have 12:28:25 <deniz1a> wouldn't it be possible to have all newgrf features in a lua or python script? 12:30:20 <planetmaker> it would also be possible to rewrite OpenTTD to use a 3D engine. It would just need a few fulltime years of work 12:30:33 <planetmaker> and it wouldn't be OpenTTD anymore 12:30:41 <deniz1a> i have already completed half the work needed for that 12:30:48 <planetmaker> loool, you do? 12:31:25 <Eddi|zuHause> <deniz1a> ok just to speed it up? <-- NewGRFs are already one of the slowest parts of the game, you want to make it even slower, for a non-existing benefit of "human-readability"? 12:31:43 <deniz1a> yes. i have found a 3d model set for all openttd graphics 12:31:51 <planetmaker> no, you don't 12:32:03 <planetmaker> maybe for a base set. But not for all OpenTTD graphics 12:32:03 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: including all NewGRFs ever created? 12:32:17 <deniz1a> zbase has 3d models of all the graphics 12:32:33 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: and even if it does, doesn't mean they're good. 12:32:34 <planetmaker> deniz1a, that's not the work I meant... 12:32:43 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest4185 12:32:47 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:32:48 <planetmaker> I talked about OpenTTD engine. Not the models 12:32:56 <deniz1a> and since i've completed half the work, i'm taking a break 12:33:10 <planetmaker> frankly, you did no work on zBase. 12:33:52 <deniz1a> it doesnt matter, important thing is it's done 12:34:24 <planetmaker> and re newGRFs: there does exist a complete language, two compilers for it, a nice interface... so why yet a 3rd one? 12:35:05 <planetmaker> AI and game scripts can be written in squirrel, so... there really is no benefit in using lua or python script for any newgrf related stuff 12:35:11 <deniz1a> because it's a language specific to openttd. if a general language were used, getting new developers would be easier 12:35:29 <deniz1a> squirrel is a lang? 12:35:42 <b_jonas> deniz1a: python would probably be impossible because you couldn't run it sandboxed easily. 12:35:45 <planetmaker> it's an animal ;) 12:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> "there exists a solution" is a very mathematical way to adress a problem :p 12:36:14 <planetmaker> :) 12:36:20 <planetmaker> +1 @ Eddi|zuHause 12:36:31 <deniz1a> oh eddi's here 12:36:58 <deniz1a> Eddi|zuHause: good news, i have already completed half the work for 3d openttd 12:37:20 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: if you're a skilled developer, the language you program in doesn't matter a lot 12:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> squirrel was chosen because it's close to C++ 12:38:02 <deniz1a> that's true. but it would be better to design the game so that it uses general languages instead of a specific one 12:38:13 <planetmaker> deniz1a, if you are really interested in changing something, I strongly recommend, to get your hands dirty on real code than just bullshit talk 12:38:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it's always a specific language. 12:38:36 *** Guest4185 [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:39:14 <deniz1a> so why arent newgrfs also written in squirrel? 12:39:21 <planetmaker> your discussion base would profit a lot, if you learned a few basics of how OpenTTD works internally and how its APIs for NewGRF, GS and AI are implemented 12:39:29 <deniz1a> and why develop a new lang nml? 12:39:35 <Eddi|zuHause> because squirrel is not suited for what NewGRFs do. 12:39:41 <Eddi|zuHause> neither is LUA 12:39:49 <deniz1a> isn't squirrel a general purpose lang? 12:40:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and GRFs are not general-purpose 12:40:07 <deniz1a> any general purpose lang should be able to do what newgrfs do 12:40:19 <planetmaker> with loads and loads of boilerplate 12:40:20 <deniz1a> the specifics could be done in game code 12:40:24 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe, but they wouldn't be as good at that job 12:40:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you wouldn't catch a random person off the street to cook in a 5-star restaurant 12:41:15 <planetmaker> hihi, I like the analogy of the "general purpose cook" :) 12:41:26 <deniz1a> but if i knew how to catch one, i could have cooks for a life time 12:42:48 <deniz1a> but you could have this: a master cook who can coordinate any number of general cooks 12:43:06 <deniz1a> that master cook would be the game code and the general cooks would be any general scripting language 12:43:41 <deniz1a> so you would only need to have one master cook and could then easily expand by finding general cooks 12:43:57 <planetmaker> OpenTTD does a quite decent job at being the 'master cook' 12:43:59 <deniz1a> how's that analogy? 12:44:13 <deniz1a> ok 12:44:16 <planetmaker> and the grf spec cook a decent job at describing how the NewGRF should work 12:44:26 <planetmaker> and similarly the GS and AI cooks 12:44:56 <planetmaker> anyhow, this is not going anywhere 12:44:59 <deniz1a> but you can't see the recipe of the food you get in newgrf 12:45:15 <planetmaker> I do see that very well 12:45:28 <deniz1a> but not the users. they only get .grf files 12:46:07 <planetmaker> users also don't see how a town grows or a tree or how a signal works or a whatever 12:46:28 <deniz1a> those should also be in text config files 12:46:42 <deniz1a> are those in compiled code? 12:46:44 <planetmaker> we can do that. And limit map size to 64x64 tiles. 12:47:04 <deniz1a> what does that have to do with map size? 12:47:22 <planetmaker> you basically advocate an interpreted language. Go ahead. Rewrite OpenTTD in one. And enjoy the speed of execution 12:47:57 <deniz1a> no i'm not advocating interpreted language. i say put those settings in text files and the compiled game reads from those 12:48:10 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what an interpreted language is 12:48:29 <deniz1a> no it's just some game parameters, not the game code or logic 12:48:39 <Eddi|zuHause> "i don't advocate swimming, i'm just saying go in the water and move your arms" 12:49:06 <planetmaker> there is openttd.cfg. Thus we already do what you advocate, deniz1a ;) 12:49:19 <planetmaker> do you understand from it how path finding works? 12:49:25 <planetmaker> all parameters are there 12:49:32 <deniz1a> ok then another task is completed!. i'm doing so much work! 12:50:07 * planetmaker ponders to look up how ignore lists work in xchat 12:50:25 <Eddi|zuHause> right-click->ignore :p 12:50:43 <deniz1a> who are you going to ignore? 12:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause> also: /ignore <mask> 12:52:06 <planetmaker> nah, not with right-click, Eddi|zuHause. There is only ban/kick/info 12:52:26 <Eddi|zuHause> get a useful client :p 12:52:44 <deniz1a> kvirc has ignore in right click menu 12:54:19 <deniz1a> so who are you going to ignore? 12:55:35 <deniz1a> guys? 12:56:15 <deniz1a> it can't be me because my ideas are awesome, right? 12:57:02 <planetmaker> <planetmaker> your discussion base would profit a lot, if you learned a few basics of how OpenTTD works internally and how its APIs for NewGRF, GS and AI are implemented 12:57:26 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has joined #openttd 12:57:28 <deniz1a> i'll do that if i ever have time 12:57:58 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:31 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: do you contact car factories and ask them: "if you made your cars of wood, people could customize them with hammer and nails." 12:59:09 <deniz1a> no but i would write angry mails to those companies that cover their engines with plastic covers 12:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "wood is general purpose, and used by lots of other products" 13:02:19 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has joined #openttd 13:02:25 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [] 13:04:56 * Ketsuban returns from lunch 13:05:15 <Ketsuban> Nah, denizia has at no point suggested OpenTTD itself should be written in an interpreted language. 13:05:31 <deniz1a> yes 13:05:41 <Ketsuban> They're talking about the extent to which it's data-oriented. 13:06:01 <deniz1a> i just said config variables should be in text files 13:07:02 <Ketsuban> The advanced settings pane is a UI for openttd.cfg. They're arguing that other aspects should be plaintext rather than an opaque binary, and my point remains that's a lot of work for very little gain. 13:07:38 <deniz1a> ok it was just a side point 13:08:02 <deniz1a> but it would be better if the add-ons you download would be in plaintext form 13:11:03 <Eddi|zuHause> better for who? 13:11:15 <deniz1a> for everyone 13:11:19 <Ketsuban> I'd argue that even if that's true, much of the benefit of plaintext mods is already provided by NML files, since most mods are released under the terms of the GPL. 13:11:53 <deniz1a> but you have to get the source file separately. when you download a newgrf, you only get compiled .grf files 13:12:09 <deniz1a> and you can't easily modify newgrfs 13:12:17 <Ketsuban> You're yet to make a convincing argument for that actually being a drawback. 13:12:30 <deniz1a> you have to get the source, modify it and then use some tools to generate .grf file 13:12:41 <Ketsuban> Open-source people already provide a file you can easily compile yourself; closed-source people would rather you not edit it at all. 13:12:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. because when you want to modify things, you know where to get the source files. and all other people benefit more from .grf because it's more efficient 13:13:27 <deniz1a> is there a big performance difference between script and compiled newgrfs? 13:14:08 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: about the difference of a PC vs. a mainframe needed to play the game. 13:14:40 <Ketsuban> That's not a very helpful comparison. :P By the standards of the time when "mainframe" and "PC" still had meaning, we all have supercomputers. 13:15:05 <deniz1a> for example it is not clear where you get the source files for zbase set 13:16:06 <Ketsuban> Um. http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase Third or fourth result on Google for "openttd zbase". 13:16:08 <deniz1a> actually you can already make a supercomputer at home. you have to connect multiple processors in parallel 13:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Ketsuban: yes, but the 1000 times the computers got faster since 1994, you have 1000 times bigger maps and 1000 times more vehicles 13:16:50 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: except that openttd cannot ever use the parallel processors 13:17:44 <deniz1a> yes. building the hardware is not enough, the programs should also be able to support parallel execution 13:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: the link to the source is right there on bananas. 13:18:49 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: sure, just solve one of the biggest problems in computer science of today. 13:19:04 <deniz1a> added to my task list 13:19:23 <deniz1a> or todo list 13:19:52 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:59 <planetmaker> deniz1a, if you are unable to skim a readme of a package you are interested in for a link to its sources, I'm afraid, then also plain text files wouldn't help you. 13:20:19 <planetmaker> Yes, zBase comes with a readme, readable from ingame, with a link to its sources. It's even one of the *headings* in the readme 13:20:39 <deniz1a> i wasnt looking for the source files, i just realized it's not in the newgrf file 13:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and you expect someone who wants text files for easier modification be able to read a text file? preposterous! 13:21:08 <planetmaker> yeah, I think I was presumptious 13:21:29 <planetmaker> <deniz1a> for example it is not clear where you get the source files for zbase set <-- and yes, you were, deniz1a 13:21:40 <deniz1a> you should try being postsumptious 13:22:12 <deniz1a> yes from the content download window you cant get the source 13:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause> no, but you get a link to the source. 13:22:50 <deniz1a> no 13:23:18 <deniz1a> it says visit website and the page doesnt exist 13:23:43 <deniz1a> isn't that postposterous? 13:25:14 <deniz1a> preposterous has the prefixes pre and post in it! 13:25:33 <deniz1a> so is it before or after the fact? 13:28:34 <Eddi|zuHause> then report that error of the missing website. 13:28:41 <deniz1a> ok 13:28:45 <deniz1a> where? 13:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause> on the website :p 13:29:13 * Eddi|zuHause gets a "there's a hole in the bucket" vibe 13:29:57 <deniz1a> how do i file a bug report on http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase? 13:31:01 <Eddi|zuHause> probably have to log in 13:31:30 <deniz1a> meh 13:31:48 <deniz1a> can you tell them the link has zBase in it but it should be zbase 13:31:58 <deniz1a> capital b makes the link incorrect 13:35:32 <planetmaker> so you have been lamenting 2 hours to tell us that http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zBase doesn't work (while http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase works) 13:36:03 <deniz1a> was i not clear about that at the beginning? 13:36:55 <planetmaker> I can't answer that without insult 13:37:03 <deniz1a> retort 13:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> backstab 13:38:01 <deniz1a> sad face 13:38:38 <deniz1a> "<deniz1a> ok. what ii mean is, why arent graphics base sets not in plain png and text files?" i thought you would get that the link was wrong from that sentence 13:39:29 <deniz1a> but still having a special language just for openttd seems weird 13:39:53 <samu> hey i have a question about cargo dist again 13:40:05 <deniz1a> yes i love questions 13:40:38 <samu> I have a helicopter trying to full loadpassengers at an airport, but those passengers are from another station 13:41:03 <samu> now the airport also have some passengers that are going via any station to any station 13:41:17 <samu> why won't the helicopter load those? 13:41:17 <deniz1a> what kind of passengers are those? 13:41:25 <deniz1a> they just want to go anywhere? 13:41:40 <deniz1a> it doesn't? 13:41:41 <samu> yes, I think that's the thing 13:41:51 <samu> the helicopter is still trying to load 13:41:56 <samu> from the other station 13:42:09 <deniz1a> maybe that's a bug 13:42:19 <Eddi|zuHause> you should avoid passengers "to any station" 13:42:29 <deniz1a> yeah, they're trouble 13:42:30 <Eddi|zuHause> they break your feeder systems and stuff 13:42:50 <deniz1a> why would they? dont they get off at the first station? 13:42:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you can try "unload all" orders 13:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause> deniz1a: not when that station doesn't actually accept them 13:43:20 <samu> I don't have transfer 13:43:35 <deniz1a> stations have accept restrictions? oh you mean no passengers? 13:43:37 <samu> they're transfered there though 13:43:38 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:44 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist turns all orders to "transfer" implicitly 13:43:59 <deniz1a> yeah you get transfers automatically 13:44:19 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 13:46:03 <samu> gasp, nevermind, i'm looking at this wrong 13:46:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 13:46:30 <andythenorth> V453000: transition effects are Worst Thing Eva 13:46:32 <andythenorth> donât do it 13:46:32 <samu> sorry, i have several windows open and trying to follow them all 13:46:43 <samu> was looking at the wrong station 13:46:50 <V453000> what are transition effects andy? 13:47:07 <andythenorth> forums 13:47:25 <andythenorth> itâs a method for making everything ugly 13:49:38 <samu> so it happens there's no "any station" after all at this airport, that "any station" was from another airport. False alarm 13:49:50 <samu> following all this is confusing 13:51:06 <V453000> LOL XD 13:51:18 <V453000> andythenorth: how would I even do that XD extra industry tiles? :D 13:51:30 <Eddi|zuHause> so when does andythenorth learn that "forums" is a terrible location descriptor 13:51:40 <V453000> newobjects? 13:51:49 <V453000> Eddi I found it :P 13:52:03 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i don't even get what that guy is asking for 13:52:04 <V453000> so his location descriptor was top notch :D 13:52:17 <V453000> I guess newobjects which transition from thing A to thing B 13:52:22 <andythenorth> he wants holes in your ground tiles 13:52:24 <V453000> for all combination, all slopes, everything 13:52:34 <V453000> I dont think he knows what he wants :D 13:52:52 <andythenorth> holes 13:53:59 <samu> holes what? 13:54:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i think what he means is that the edge of the ISR tile looks less obvious, because the whole ISR tile is not opaque and thus the ground shines through 13:54:49 <V453000> ah right 13:55:09 <samu> roads that deteriorate over time creating holes that slows down traffic? 13:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> samu: this is not sim city :p 13:55:58 <samu> ok 13:57:19 <deniz1a> simcity gets boring after a while 13:58:13 <deniz1a> if openttd had some gameplay changes it could be the best game 13:58:42 <V453000> hm so andythenorth why is it such a bad idea? :D doesnt sounds THAT bad to me 13:58:44 <planetmaker> V453000, you do that by providing two ground sprites basically 13:59:00 <andythenorth> V453000: looks ugly 13:59:12 <V453000> I already do that pm, the top one just is 100% fulltile :) 13:59:14 <planetmaker> first draw the normal grass as lowest ground sprite. Then draw on top the concrete one which has some transparent holes in it at the appropriate borders 13:59:18 <planetmaker> hehe :) 13:59:22 <V453000> idk it doesnt have to look ugly I suppose :) 13:59:32 <V453000> yeah 13:59:42 <planetmaker> and I do think he has a point that it can look better in some cases 13:59:51 * andythenorth hates it 13:59:54 <V453000> Probably 14:00:00 * planetmaker loves it :) 14:00:00 <andythenorth> one of the reasons I donât use ISR ever 14:00:05 <V453000> :0 14:00:10 <V453000> andythenorth never uses ISR 14:00:11 <V453000> infidel 14:00:23 <deniz1a> what's isr? 14:00:29 <andythenorth> canât stand the sight of it 14:00:41 <andythenorth> I was hoping to fix it, but the work is too much 14:00:53 <V453000> looks like I got a job to do to annoy andy XD 14:01:03 <planetmaker> :) 14:01:11 <planetmaker> V453000, where did your station coder vanish to? 14:01:24 <V453000> has work, is busy 14:01:55 <V453000> has not stated that they arent coming back, but I dont think cats will be done anytime soon at all :) 14:02:37 <planetmaker> :( he started so nice on nml stations :) 14:02:43 <planetmaker> it all sounded promising 14:03:25 <V453000> well it was the same a year ago :( 14:04:00 <planetmaker> hm, was it the same guy? 14:04:40 <V453000> yes 14:07:40 <andythenorth> was a she no? 14:07:45 <V453000> yes 14:07:48 <V453000> matters now :) 14:07:50 <V453000> not 14:15:58 *** deniz1a [~kvirc@78.181.133.206] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:18:51 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:27:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:30:57 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 14:32:16 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-5d876ff9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:35:44 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 14:37:45 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 14:40:01 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-179-139.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:50:18 *** samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-249-192.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:57:37 *** samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-249-192.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 14:58:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 15:03:09 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:11:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6D5F5.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:14:36 <samu> cargo flow legend is interesting 15:15:03 <samu> the color is an estimate? 15:16:27 <samu> that green to yellow to red 15:17:04 <samu> red means I need more vehicles transporting on that route, right? it is not necessarily the amount of waiting cargo 15:17:31 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 15:18:42 <samu> wiki 15:20:16 <samu> http://wiki.openttd.org/Cargodist 15:27:35 <samu> yep, it's simple 15:28:13 <samu> "The yellow and red shades are only shown if Cargodist is enabled for the selected cargoes and the link graph calculation has determined that the link has too little capacity for the amount of cargo to be transported there" 15:28:26 <samu> this is too much information to digest all at once 15:28:36 <samu> but ends up being simple 15:34:49 <samu> I have a suggestion, add a tool tip when mousing over that legend 15:34:55 <samu> explaining what to do 15:35:08 <samu> when there's a light green or a dark red 15:35:36 <samu> would be helpful to understand what the colors mean 15:38:20 <samu> also, green at first gave me the wrong perception of it 15:38:33 <samu> I was thinking, "so it's green, everything is good then" 15:38:43 <samu> it's not quite that 15:39:18 <samu> should have been in shades of blue 15:40:41 <samu> the saturated point should be the brightest, I guess 15:43:21 <samu> the over capacity point should be in a strong blue 15:44:11 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 15:44:17 <samu> as for the unused, hmm I have no idea, but something that doesn't resemble blue, red or white 15:46:30 <samu> eww feels like im alone on here, well those are my ideas and first impressions of cargo flow, hope someone reads them 15:48:27 <V453000> everybody does but nobody cares about them 15:52:16 <andythenorth> weâre just amazed it works 15:53:03 <V453000> just grab notepad++ and get working samu :) 15:54:40 <samu> notepad++ hmm what am i gonna do? 15:55:58 <V453000> code changes :) 16:00:57 <samu> ugh, i rather not 16:01:59 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 16:02:02 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:02:10 <V453000> then go draw sprites :P 16:14:10 <Alberth> frez sprites are alwayz tasty 16:14:54 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:08 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:54:09 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has joined #openttd 16:54:33 <samu> Oilfield is blocking another Oilfield. Ship can't dock there 16:54:40 <samu> I thought this had been fixed 16:54:42 <samu> :( 16:55:58 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-5d876ff9.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #openttd [] 16:58:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:02:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 17:02:33 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:06:20 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:06:52 <Eddi|zuHause> how and where did you get that impression? 17:08:38 <samu> the 1 tile border 17:09:37 <samu> flat area around industries: 1 17:09:42 <samu> tile 17:10:43 <Alberth> not enough to turn a ship 17:10:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> samu: i don't think that applies to oil rigs. 17:13:29 <Eddi|zuHause> oil rigs have some special creation rules that make sure they are in a larger body of water. but this is like the border of a rectangle of 8x8 (or so) around the oil rig, so another oil rig may be within this ring 17:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the "flat area" is just a check that it's flat. there may be other obstacles within this area 17:16:01 <samu> I see t.t 17:19:17 <samu> could it be fixed? 17:19:24 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 17:19:33 <samu> or improved 17:21:45 *** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. you could override the layout for the oil rig with one that checks more tiles for being water 17:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> this involves writing a NewGRF 17:27:40 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 17:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> might be a nice beginner's exercise on industry NewGRFs 17:29:16 *** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 17:36:25 *** pxr [~Mychomize@46-236-110-230.customer.t3.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:57:08 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:57:11 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:08:55 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18476.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:21:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:22:43 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f740531.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:22:49 <Alberth> o/ 18:23:27 <andythenorth> o/ 18:23:41 <NGC3982> _o 18:24:26 <samu> hmm how do I do that 18:25:16 <samu> beginner's exercise on industry newgrf 18:25:26 <samu> if it's easy, i can try to do it 18:25:40 <Alberth> read about making newgrfs? 18:25:45 *** quorzom [~quorzom@cable-78-35-98-177.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 18:27:30 <samu> no, it's for the oil rig creation 18:27:57 <samu> it should check for water tiles nearby 18:28:05 <samu> to avoid blocking another oilrig 18:28:36 <samu> change a layout or something, meh you help me? 18:29:05 <Alberth> suggesting to read about making newgrfs is not helping? 18:29:49 <andythenorth> assuming default industries, not other newgrfs 18:30:03 <andythenorth> (1) set up a newgrf that modifies existing oil rig 18:30:18 <andythenorth> (2) copy the layouts (they can probably be found in nfo wiki) and add more magic tiles 18:30:20 <andythenorth> done 18:30:41 <Alberth> (3) profit! 18:31:16 <Eddi|zuHause> (4) ? 18:31:16 <andythenorth> probably about 2 days work 18:32:00 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has quit [Quit: Este é o fim.] 18:32:32 <Alberth> (4) world domination 18:33:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that would be (5) then 18:33:35 <Alberth> samu: the point with these journeys is that the end-result is not that important, it's the journey that counts 18:34:04 <Alberth> oh, you want to keep a ? item in, eh? :) 18:34:08 <andythenorth> (6) release, put on forums, receive endless feature request 18:34:10 <andythenorth> +s 18:34:52 <samu> is this only going to work for oil rig vs oil rig? 18:35:04 <samu> if I can actually manage to do it 18:35:37 <andythenorth> this will only work for default oil rig, or oil rigs in newgrfs that redefine default (if your grf is after that one in the newgrf window) 18:36:36 <samu> ah, so it has nothing to do with the "flat area around industries" setting? 18:36:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it wouldn't be much of a running gag (or new-wordy: "meme") otherwise :p 18:36:54 <Alberth> fair enough :) 18:37:11 <samu> ok let me try 18:37:20 <samu> where is that wiki 18:37:56 <Alberth> and so the journey starts.... 18:38:28 <samu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.nfo ? 18:38:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it will never work with other NewGRFs. each NewGRF operates on a new copy of the default industries 18:41:58 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has joined #openttd 18:43:55 <samu> is this? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Main 18:44:04 <andythenorth> oic 18:58:01 <andythenorth> meh 18:58:06 * andythenorth waits for steam activation email 19:04:06 <samu> i still couldn't figure out where to start 19:04:19 <samu> well I downloaded NML 19:04:36 <samu> now what do I need? Some layout of a Oil Rig thing? 19:05:33 <Alberth> step 1 of andy 19:06:13 <samu> how? 19:08:10 <Alberth> be less concerned about the end result, and enjoying the journey of finding the answer to "how" 19:08:40 <Alberth> more concretely, start reading things, like the manual/wiki 19:08:41 <samu> where do I find that layout? I must edit upon it 19:09:21 <andythenorth> first you must make a basic grf that you can get into gam 19:09:24 <andythenorth> game * 19:09:25 <Alberth> step 1 does not mention layout at all, afaik 19:09:28 <andythenorth> it can have zero features 19:09:36 <andythenorth> but it must compile and appear in game correctly 19:15:21 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:15:46 <Wolf01> hello 19:16:45 <Alberth> moin 19:27:43 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 19:32:05 <andythenorth> hmm 19:32:13 <andythenorth> has FIRS makefile lost TEST_INDUSTRY support again? 19:32:24 <andythenorth> itâs a compile time flag 19:35:46 * andythenorth investigates 19:48:11 <andythenorth> hmm works if the other args are supplied 19:53:52 *** luaduck [~luaduck@0001c465.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC gives me a nerd boner.] 19:55:49 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:57:55 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387a60f.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:00:02 *** Celestar1 [~Celestar@mnch-5d873648.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:01:01 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@blfd-4d08309d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Yo.] 20:12:46 *** luaduck_zzz [~luaduck@0001c465.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:13:14 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 20:20:24 <samu> C:\Users\Ricardo\Downloads\nml-v5465-windows-win32 20:20:30 <samu> oops 20:20:43 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/fs6212.diff <- hmm 20:21:00 <frosch123> anyone ever used the chat window width setting? 20:21:06 <frosch123> it makes no sense to me :p 20:21:16 <samu> â[Knmlc ERROR: "lang\english.lng", line 2: Undefined command "VERSION" 20:21:22 <samu> i fail 20:21:25 <frosch123> i wonder whether it should be replaced by some "percentage of screen width" settings instead 20:21:41 <samu> double gui size doesn't double that 20:21:56 <frosch123> some of the custom sizing things like multiplayer list likely need to be rewritten 20:22:03 <frosch123> no idea actually why they are done like that 20:22:23 <samu> so what am i doing wrong here? I tried to follow the tutorial 20:23:33 <samu> undefined command "VERSION" 20:23:47 <frosch123> oi, albert isn't here. am i alone then? :p 20:23:59 <samu> i am here 20:24:08 <V453000> yes frosch alone :P 20:24:45 <samu> line 2 says 20:24:48 <samu> STR_GRF_NAME :Oil Rig {VERSION} 20:26:43 <michi_cc> Don't skip the section about custom_tags.txt (or read it more carefully :) 20:29:21 <samu> custom_tags.txt 20:29:23 <samu> VERSION :1 20:29:28 <samu> just that 20:29:31 <samu> does it need name ? 20:30:08 <samu> TITLE : 20:33:38 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:36:28 <samu> undefined command "VERSION" I dont know why 20:37:30 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:37:33 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 20:40:48 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A19C08.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:40:49 <samu> now I added a TITTLE :Oil Rig 20:41:02 <samu> it still complains about undeficed command "VERSION" 20:41:08 <samu> TITLE 20:41:14 <samu> one t 20:41:30 <samu> undefined* 20:41:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18476.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:42:12 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 20:42:36 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-8-26.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:42:36 <samu> wait, let me upload this thing 20:44:02 <samu> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!708&authkey=!AOjM0fTPgymtzzc&ithint=file%2czip 20:47:04 <andythenorth> does it work? 20:47:06 <andythenorth> o_O 20:47:20 <samu> nop 20:47:33 <samu> and i dont know why 20:48:40 <samu> can you look at it 20:51:19 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.40.128.42] has joined #openttd 20:52:00 <michi_cc> samu: custom_tags.txt: UTF-8 Unicode (with BOM) text, with CRLF line terminators 20:52:23 <samu> what? 20:52:29 <michi_cc> samu: i.e. don't save your stuff with a byte order mark. 20:52:51 <samu> what the hell is that? I just saved as UTF-8 20:53:11 <michi_cc> Use a real text editor then :) 20:53:46 <samu> notepad? 20:54:46 <michi_cc> That would be a not-real text editor (which assumes UTF-8 with byte order mark, even if almost nothing except Microsoft does). 20:55:06 <samu> hmm 20:55:15 <samu> i will try the other options 20:55:26 <michi_cc> Notepad++ should work. 20:55:56 <michi_cc> It will do with and without BOM just fine. 20:55:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D0B6.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:56:01 <samu> there's ANSI, Unicode, Unicode Big Endian and UTF-8 to pick from in Notepad, would any of these work? 20:56:30 <michi_cc> ANSI, as long as you stay within a - z. 20:56:57 <michi_cc> It's a strict subset of UTF-8. Don't try accents though. 20:57:06 <samu> ok 20:57:13 *** itsatacoshop247_ [~itsatacos@c-76-102-167-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 20:57:59 <samu> â[Kting output ...â[KK 20:58:07 <samu> what does this mean? it worked? 20:58:16 <samu> i see a oilrig.grf now 21:01:00 <samu> i guess it's working 21:01:09 <samu> it's listed in OpenTTD menu 21:06:43 <samu> what must I do now? 21:10:08 <frosch123> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/diff?utf8=%E2%9C%93&rev_to=9879a2a88737&rev=d4bb7a333937 <- andythenorth: did you remove those strings from english.txt? why did eints delete them? 21:11:43 <frosch123> hmm, that's a reverse diff... so they were added 21:11:51 <frosch123> just eints failed to set an author 21:13:36 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 21:14:35 <samu> so, about that oil rig layout 21:14:42 <samu> what to do? 21:15:12 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:70cf:904a:e534:a6fe] has quit [Quit: .] 21:18:33 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!] 21:22:30 <andythenorth> frosch123: dunno :) 21:33:10 <samu> my grf lel 21:33:12 <samu> http://1drv.ms/1BT1VWQ 21:34:00 <samu> the tutorial is teaching me to create a truck, I don't want to do that :( 21:37:56 <andythenorth> Iâd say look at FIRS, but itâs way to complex 21:38:01 <andythenorth> look at ogfx + industries 21:38:08 <andythenorth> or manpower industries maybe 21:38:19 <andythenorth> or manual industries (name?) 21:42:46 <planetmaker> g'evening 21:49:59 <andythenorth> lo planetmaker 21:55:09 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387a60f.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 22:06:18 * andythenorth needs a varaction 2 chain that loops by reading a counter in a register 22:06:44 <andythenorth> and reads values from other registers, the register location incrementing 1 per loop 22:06:53 <andythenorth> this is probably an Eddi thing :P 22:07:20 <andythenorth> given that canât loop back to same varact 2, this idea may be flawed 22:08:02 <andythenorth> there is another, horrible, solution, but it might run out of varact 2 IDs maybe 22:08:05 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:08:08 * andythenorth will try another day 22:13:06 <andythenorth> whatâs the varact 2 ID limit in nml? 255? 22:13:59 <andythenorth> wiki doesnât seem to know 22:14:30 <Wolf01> 'night 22:14:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:14:44 <frosch123> andythenorth: nml outputs it on every run :p 22:14:51 <andythenorth> oh that nice new display :) 22:14:57 <andythenorth> that is nice btw 22:15:10 * andythenorth needs to find his glasses 22:16:21 <andythenorth> frosch123: whatâs it labelled as? Concurrent Action2 registers? 22:17:07 <frosch123> spritesets = action1 ids 22:17:12 <frosch123> spritegroups = varact2 ids 22:17:29 <andythenorth> ah 22:17:31 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:34 <frosch123> action2 registers = temporary storage = complexity inside a single switch / spritelayout 22:18:11 <andythenorth> yeah, thatâs what I first assumed, was looking for some other action 2 stat as well 22:18:22 <andythenorth> spritegroup makes sense now 22:19:17 <andythenorth> the count reported for spritegroup, I assume is total in a single chain? 22:19:32 <frosch123> it's the branching factor of a chain 22:19:52 <frosch123> how flat can you punch the tree :) 22:20:17 <andythenorth> so (theoretically), if I wanted a switch with 255 possible results (to other unique switches) 22:20:21 <andythenorth> thatâs just possible 22:20:50 <frosch123> yes, but no switch after it can refer to some other switch before 22:21:03 <frosch123> the 256 is a wall no other switch can pass over 22:21:11 <planetmaker> andythenorth, 255 is a hard limit 22:21:17 <andythenorth> no switch anywhere, or no switch in that chain? 22:21:30 <frosch123> grfv9 suggests to increase that limit btw :p 22:21:32 * frosch123 hides 22:21:39 <planetmaker> :) 22:21:53 <andythenorth> no switch anywhere 22:21:57 * andythenorth sees how it works 22:22:01 <andythenorth> much easier to model it as nfo :P 22:22:04 <andythenorth> in my head 22:22:24 <andythenorth> the pointer location got reset :P 22:22:53 <andythenorth> that is going to be somewhat interesting to handle 22:23:45 <andythenorth> can I reliably organise my nml input, placing switches in the file to workaround this? 22:23:49 <andythenorth> or is that doomed? 22:23:59 <frosch123> nml does not reorder switches 22:24:02 <frosch123> (currently) 22:24:13 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:24:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 22:24:19 <frosch123> so, it's up to you to optimise the maximum active switches 22:24:43 <andythenorth> so if I needed a massive 255 ID switch, and itâs the first chain in the file... 22:25:06 <andythenorth> later (unrelated) chains still work 22:25:16 <frosch123> yes 22:25:30 <frosch123> anyway, it's likely more clever to compute results than using huge switches :) 22:25:38 <andythenorth> this is only coming up because Iâve exceeded max industries 22:25:39 <andythenorth> :P 22:25:55 <andythenorth> so I have to reuse IDs 22:26:20 <andythenorth> so all industries have to now share the same switches 22:26:27 <andythenorth> all / most /s 22:26:56 <andythenorth> fun times 22:27:14 <andythenorth> so I have to stuff a uid into a register at the start of each switch chain 22:27:19 <andythenorth> then switch on the uid later 22:27:27 <andythenorth> uid can be > 64 22:27:33 <andythenorth> problem solved 22:27:38 <andythenorth> until I hit the switch limit 22:27:46 <frosch123> why? 22:27:55 <frosch123> just add a if and definite separate items 22:28:03 <andythenorth> canât if switches 22:28:07 <frosch123> why? 22:28:09 <andythenorth> spec 22:28:10 <andythenorth> says 22:28:19 <andythenorth> may not wrap action 2 of any kind in action D 22:28:25 <andythenorth> may have misunderstood 22:28:32 <frosch123> manual industries does if around items everywhere 22:28:36 <andythenorth> misunderstanding would be optimum outcome here 22:28:39 <frosch123> "item" is not action2 22:28:41 <frosch123> "item" is action3 22:29:10 * andythenorth thinks 22:29:56 <andythenorth> I saw this problem in game, maybe Iâm mis-solving it 22:31:31 * andythenorth checks own code 22:31:44 <andythenorth> when reusing IDs, I had wrong industry window text 22:32:23 <andythenorth> but item with that cb isnât in an if block 22:32:25 <andythenorth> which would explain it 22:33:16 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:33:18 <andythenorth> props block is wrapped in if 22:33:24 <andythenorth> graphics not 22:33:43 <andythenorth> eh, problem solved if that works 22:34:46 <andythenorth> thanks 22:35:21 <samu> am i looking at the right place? 22:35:27 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19C08.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:30 * andythenorth looking for bed 22:35:32 <andythenorth> bye 22:35:33 <samu> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:IndustryTiles 22:35:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 22:40:23 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 22:42:11 <samu> where would I place the 'item {' line? 22:43:00 <samu> this block 22:43:24 <samu> goes inside 'grf {' part? 22:43:34 <Supercheese> http://pastebin.com/XjbTehww 22:43:38 <Supercheese> Just by itself like that 22:43:45 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f740531.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:43:48 <Supercheese> not within grf block 22:46:24 <samu> ah, what is the difference between industry tiles and industries? 22:46:36 <samu> features 22:46:47 <samu> which one am I to edit? 22:47:19 <Supercheese> Well, the industries feature will require tile layouts comprised of industry tile(s) 22:47:26 <Supercheese> layout(s) 22:47:38 <samu> oh, layouts 22:47:43 <samu> ok it's tiles 22:48:39 <Supercheese> So if defining a completely new industry, you need the item block for the industry, at least one tile layout, and at least one item block with an industrytile 22:51:15 <planetmaker> you can re-use the pre-defined default industry tiles. In principle 22:52:15 <Supercheese> yes, but "completely new" 22:53:18 <samu> The objective is, I wanted to modify the creation rules for oil rig, they shouldn't be able to spawn adjacent to other oil rigs 22:53:21 <Supercheese> you could even use a default industry and just tweak it a bit 22:53:31 <Supercheese> oh that may be what you want 22:53:55 <samu> to leave a room of water for ships to dock 22:53:56 <Supercheese> you can probably just override the properties 22:54:12 <Supercheese> mightn't need to mess with tiles 22:54:42 <Supercheese> could mess with location_check callback 22:55:38 <samu> it's FEAT_INDUSTRIES then? 22:56:12 <Supercheese> let me paste some code 22:56:15 <Supercheese> sec 22:57:30 <Supercheese> http://pastebin.com/fGHgHD8a 22:57:40 <Supercheese> and then define the callback 22:58:25 <Supercheese> which I believe must be done above that block in the file 23:01:59 <Supercheese> which should look something like http://pastebin.com/ERk2sK0P 23:02:09 <Supercheese> where you can change the 6 to whatever value 23:02:26 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:31 <Supercheese> note I have not checked any of this code, just my initial hunch 23:04:09 <Supercheese> Hmm, maybe I should be using the ottdcoop paste... 23:04:12 <Supercheese> oh well 23:04:16 <samu> i believe there's two ways for doing this 23:05:29 <samu> make the oil rig fatter to occupy more water tiles to let ships docks when another one is spawning nearby 23:05:43 <samu> or alter the rules to the oil rig 23:05:47 <samu> upon creaton 23:05:59 <samu> which one is better? 23:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i think changing the layout is easier 23:06:33 <samu> or am I missing something I'm not aware 23:06:45 <Supercheese> the callback method would probably take fewer lines of code 23:06:46 <Eddi|zuHause> changing the creation rules needs some learning about how the NewGRF logic works 23:06:49 <Supercheese> although I'm not sure 23:07:00 <Supercheese> and not that that's an imperative metric... 23:07:49 <samu> how would a ship go into that tile? 23:08:26 <samu> it's a station 23:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the ship goes adjacent to the station tile 23:09:35 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@c-76-102-167-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:10:01 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 23:12:29 <samu> if i increase the oil rig size with one more tile, the one in front of the station, can i configure that tile to allow ships to go into it? gah, this is starting to look complicated 23:12:40 <samu> a path_map 23:12:43 <samu> kind of thing 23:12:56 <samu> pathable terrain 23:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the tiles are special placeholders for construcion. after construction they are plain water tiles 23:13:59 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause> they are not actually part of the resulting industry 23:15:56 *** itsatacoshop247_ [~itsatacos@c-76-102-167-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:16:10 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 23:17:00 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [] 23:21:43 *** quorzom_ [~quorzom@cable-78-35-98-177.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 23:28:45 *** quorzom [~quorzom@cable-78-35-98-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:29:11 *** itsatacoshop247_ [~itsatacos@2601:9:1180:237:a0ca:65cd:8673:cf4f] has joined #openttd 23:36:51 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@c-76-102-167-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:41:52 <samu> aha, here it is the thing 23:41:53 <samu> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/IndustryDefaultProps 23:46:53 *** dreck [~oftc-webi@bas1-ottawa08-1176110546.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 23:46:55 <dreck> hi 23:47:54 <dreck> I know its a bit unrelated but hmm any of you know if 4-axle trucks (versus the more common 2- and 3-axles) were ever used on anything outside oversized/transformer load flatcars? 23:48:57 <Eddi|zuHause> oversized/flatcars can have 12 axles or more 23:50:14 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise, i have no helpful information... 23:52:03 <samu> Oil rigs are slightly special industries, since they have industry "tile" FFh, which doesn't create anything on the landscape, but the tile is still checked, and construction fails if it isn't a clear water tile. 23:52:30 <samu> there is a xx behind the oil rig 23:52:36 <samu> are you looking at it? 23:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that only affects the new oil rig, existing oil rigs might still be blocked this way 23:54:04 <Eddi|zuHause> replicate the xx around the whole oil rig to prevent this 23:55:35 <samu> oh, other question, where can I open this to edit it 23:55:52 <Eddi|zuHause> what are you hoping to edit? 23:55:55 <samu> must i create one from scratch 23:56:03 <samu> put xx around 23:56:29 <Eddi|zuHause> this must go into your NewGRF 23:56:47 <dreck> eddi yeah there are some big monster of transformer carriers like hows THIS? http://zierke.com/shasta_route/pics/schnabel.jpg 23:56:47 <samu> :) 23:56:49 <dreck> heh 23:57:26 <samu> ah, so it must be copy pasted, then adjust 23:57:46 <samu> grr, what exactly am I copying, lol sorry for so many questions 23:58:23 <dreck> heh samu well sometimes you just learn by trial and error right? :) 23:58:42 <dreck> thats somewhat why I like grfcodec...plop my grf into the game and if no errors or bugs then I know I got it 23:58:44 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the syntax will be a bit different, so i'm not sure what copying would achieve 23:58:58 <samu> i want to pick the original footprint, and edit from it 23:59:04 <samu> oh, it's a syntax 23:59:09 <samu> great :o 23:59:38 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-4d08309d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd