Log for #openttd on 7th February 2015:
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00:01:40  <samu> erm... question
00:02:20  <samu> pff, i don't even know how to ask
00:03:18  <samu> sorry I can't get this to work without help
00:03:34  <samu>
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00:05:47  <samu> bah i'm so depressed
00:06:07  <samu> I have this nml file -
00:06:36  <samu> what is wrong with it
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00:07:33  <samu> the game doesn't spawn the oil rig only near the edge borders with that code
00:07:54  <samu> and I can't figure out what is missing in the code to make that work
00:08:38  <samu> I've been on this for 3 days :(
00:11:52  <Supercheese> isn't there a game setting that controls border spawn proximity for oil rigs?
00:12:28  <samu> not sure, I think yes, but the description only mentions oil refinery
00:12:44  <samu> at least it behaves like oil refinery
00:12:59  <Supercheese> Maximum distance from edge for Oil refineries ooooh
00:13:01  <Supercheese> not rigs
00:13:12  <samu> yes that setting
00:13:17  <samu> i think it also works for oil rigs
00:13:36  <Supercheese> perhaps, I dunno
00:14:04  <samu> from my testings, the oil rig never spawns inside, only near edge
00:14:18  <samu> but in the editor, you can place oil rigs anywhere you want
00:14:22  <samu> scenario editor
00:14:41  <samu> anywhere there is water, of course
00:15:05  <Supercheese> I don't believe your grf would change that behavior at all
00:15:11  <Supercheese> you only define a new layout
00:15:14  <samu> it did
00:15:54  <samu> oil rigs were spawning anywhere
00:19:10  <samu> ... and I need to fix it :)
00:19:14  <samu> or help
00:22:44  <samu> im running a test to find out if that setting also applies to oil rigs
00:23:03  <samu> fast forwarding with 12 tiles from border and another with 48 tiles from border
00:30:19  <samu> i have the results, "Maximum distance from edge for Oil refineries " applies to both oil refinery and oi rig
00:30:29  <samu> just tested, do you want the screenshots?
00:30:42  <samu> there's a clear visual difference
00:30:50  <samu> with that setting 12 vs 48
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00:36:09  <samu> oops, i disconnected
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00:39:04  <samu> 48 tiles ->
00:39:20  <samu> 12 tiles ->
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01:19:07  <FUZxxl> I have this line
01:19:18  <FUZxxl> It's trains are almost always full
01:19:22  <FUZxxl> yet it runs at a huge loss
01:19:33  <FUZxxl> it's weird
01:19:40  <FUZxxl> it looses money on every station
01:20:24  <Eddi|zuHause> do you use transfers (or cargodist)?
01:20:30  <FUZxxl> I use cargodist
01:21:01  <Eddi|zuHause> negative transfer income may happen if the vehicle is slower than the average journey, or part of the route goes backwards
01:21:14  <Eddi|zuHause> adjust the transfer income factor in the setting
01:21:33  <FUZxxl> what does that factor do?
01:22:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it changes the accounting of income, to emphasise the first or last leg of the journey
01:22:15  <Eddi|zuHause> it does not change the actual money you get for transporting
01:22:20  <FUZxxl> ok
01:22:43  <FUZxxl> my network has long-distance routes and each larger city has urban railways.
01:22:55  <FUZxxl> these are pretty slow due to track layout restrictions
01:23:29  <glx> slow and long distance are not good for money
01:23:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i usually put the transfer factor at about 30% (default is 70% or so)
01:24:21  <FUZxxl> the long distance trains are fast, it's the urban lines that are slow
01:24:27  <FUZxxl> they are on either end of the route
01:24:40  <Eddi|zuHause> 30% is easily enough for the long distance routes to still report a profit
01:25:39  <FUZxxl> ok
01:28:18  <FUZxxl> 50% works for me
01:28:20  <FUZxxl> thank you!
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06:32:09  <andythenorth> Pikka: did you win?
06:32:17  <Pikka> nope
06:32:21  <andythenorth> :|
06:32:23  <andythenorth> was it fun?
06:32:43  <Pikka> not really. it was interesting though.
06:33:18  <andythenorth> now what?
06:33:31  * andythenorth got ETS 2 for Mac finally.  Lag-tastic, can’t play it
06:34:33  <Pikka> now a holiday in sydney next week, finding a part time job and back to uni in a couple of weeks.
06:34:44  <Pikka> and teaching civilAI to build aircraft
06:35:53  <andythenorth> airport spam
06:36:07  <Pikka> yes
06:36:29  <andythenorth> GS?
06:36:41  <Pikka> possibly
06:36:45  <Pikka> not to mention newgrfs
06:36:49  <Pikka> pineapple houses and such
06:36:58  <Pikka> getting a job is probably more important though
06:44:43  <andythenorth> oh details
06:46:46  <andythenorth> no more 8bpp houses? :|
06:46:57  * andythenorth needs a house set for tropic and arctic
06:47:05  <andythenorth> and doesn’t want to make one
07:00:24  <Pikka> yes
07:00:27  <Pikka> me too
07:00:34  <Pikka> although I do want to make one
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07:19:41  <zooks> Anyone know how to get the proper rocky tiles back in opengfx? see
07:22:28  <andythenorth> Pikka: renderised houses?
07:45:05  <Pikka> si
07:45:43  <Pikka> very
07:46:01  <Pikka> easy variation I suppose
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07:50:28  <andythenorth> beans in my hopper cars
07:50:33  <andythenorth> sugar in ya peas mate
07:53:40  <Pikka> mmm, beans
07:56:50  <Alberth> moin
08:05:40  <andythenorth> shall I ban beans in hoppers?
08:06:51  <V453000> ..
08:07:02  <V453000> morningque
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08:11:26  <andythenorth> bon
08:11:30  <andythenorth> jour
08:13:02  <Alberth> beans is food, use a tank wagon?
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08:13:39  <andythenorth> how about cold beans?
08:13:43  <andythenorth> refrigerated wagon
08:14:01  <Alberth> hmm, canned beans?
08:14:33  <Alberth> although that would be "food" I guess
08:15:18  <Alberth> but refrigerated wagons always look nice
08:15:52  <Alberth> I already have so many 'normal' wagons :)
08:16:03  <andythenorth> just use open car for everything :P
08:16:08  <andythenorth> universal wagon
08:16:53  <supermop> im hauling them in NG gondolas
08:17:13  <supermop> NG gondola trains for everything
08:18:18  <andythenorth> ftw
08:31:23  <supermop> damn it what is this faster train
08:31:57  <supermop> i just built a bunch of some 128kmh losers
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08:36:36  <andythenorth> ?
08:36:37  <Alberth> it's better than buying a 160kmh engine, and then find your tank wagon wont go faster than 104kmh :p
08:39:05  <peter1138> Apparently quite a lot of people play with wagon speed limits disabled
08:40:14  <andythenorth> makes sense
08:40:41  <andythenorth> nitrates in covered hoppers?
08:40:42  * andythenorth wonders
08:45:26  <Alberth> is better in case it suddenly needs very much much more room
08:47:30  <andythenorth> seems it is quite prone to sudden migrations
08:51:05  <Alberth> open cars may be even better
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08:57:31  <roidal> hi
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09:15:32  * andythenorth still busy as a bee
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09:17:53  <supermop> northcock
09:18:25  <Pikka> if your wagons don't go slower than your locos, what's the point of wagon speed limits? ;)
09:19:57  <sla_ro|master> The point of wagon speed limit is to make it stay on track :P
09:20:49  <Alberth> openttd has no trouble at all with derailing wagons
09:21:44  <Alberth> 20 wagons filled with coal, down hill, 45 degrees turn, and stopping in 1 tile. No problem
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09:24:57  <andythenorth> supermop: it’s this
09:26:43  <sla_ro|master> Alberth, true
09:26:53  <sla_ro|master> but in real life, wagons have these limits :P
09:27:10  <andythenorth> the point in Iron Horse is that there isn’t just one best engine
09:27:24  <andythenorth> there are always ~3 best engines, depending on route
09:28:15  <andythenorth> also bbl
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09:29:00  <Alberth> sla_ro|master: that's a bug in the world :)
09:33:15  <roidal> :D
09:34:04  <sla_ro|master> damn bugs, we must smash them
09:34:36  <roidal> it's the same with maglev
09:35:42  <roidal> in real life there is nothing like a loco, every wagon is a loco
09:35:44  <roidal> :)
09:36:21  <Alberth> that should be fixable in newgrf, I think
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09:52:40  <supermop> bbl
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10:02:37  <planetmaker> <sla_ro|master> but in real life, wagons have these limits :P <-- in real life they do not have a limit. It's a user-implied one. Same as you can do in ordering your train to not go faster than XXX km/h
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10:03:57  <Phreeze> hi guys :)
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10:23:13  <Wolf01> hi o/
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10:28:00  <Alberth> moin
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11:28:19  <samu> have you seen this?
11:28:46  <samu> chris sawyer released some transport tycoon for mobile
11:29:12  <samu> and it's not free :/
11:29:13  <Wolf01> something like 2 years ago
11:29:48  <Wolf01> it's a sort of mobile locomotion
11:30:59  <samu> he wants some money
11:31:02  <andythenorth> is steam app rubbish on all operating systems?
11:31:05  <andythenorth> or just OS X?
11:31:13  <samu> and it's not being released on Windows
11:31:18  <samu> boo
11:31:44  <Wolf01> ehm, they actually released it for windows
11:31:52  <Wolf01> it's called locomotion
11:32:31  <samu> locomotion isn't running well on windows 7
11:33:34  * andythenorth tries to find ETS settings that don’t result in ‘slug'
11:33:56  <Wolf01> then they should patch lomo instead of releasing an identical game
11:34:19  <samu> windows 7 distorts all colors when the game goes into fullscreen :(
11:34:28  <samu> unplayable mainly because of that
11:34:36  <Wolf01> did you try to run it in compatibility mode?
11:37:54  <Alberth> hmm, box car for oil?
11:38:42  <andythenorth> barrels
11:41:43  <Alberth> fair enough :)
11:44:21  <V453000> oil not in tankers? :(
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11:48:34  <Wolf01> lol, locomotion requires the cd to play, I don't even have the drive on the new pc
11:48:48  <Wolf01> too used to steam
11:49:18  <Phreeze> iso -> mount it
11:49:42  <Wolf01> this mean I need to make the iso first :P
11:51:16  <Phreeze> download it somewhere ^^ it's faster
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11:51:53  <samu> help me at english
11:52:07  <samu> what is the opposite of edge
11:52:08  <Alberth> s/at/with/
11:52:11  <samu> interior?
11:52:21  <Alberth> edge of what?
11:52:35  <Phreeze> edge of glory
11:52:50  <samu> editing my grf description with:  Side effect issue: Oil Rigs can spawn in the 'opposite of map edge'
11:53:14  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no edge!
11:53:29  <Alberth> Oil Rigs can spawn everywhere
11:53:39  <samu> yeh, okay i guess
11:53:47  <Alberth> not sure it's an issue though
11:53:59  <samu> it is
11:54:06  <Alberth> you can also see the original restriction as stupid
11:54:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't use the word "issue" either
11:54:35  <Alberth> in that case, it's a feature or a fix
11:54:55  <samu> i didn't intended that to be a feature though
11:55:14  <Eddi|zuHause> who said that was a requirement for a feature? :p
11:55:38  <Alberth> fair enough, it all depends on how you see things
11:56:18  <samu> description updated
11:56:56  <samu> Side effect issue: Oil Rigs can spawn everywhere, not only on the edge of the world.
11:57:09  <samu> good/bad english?
11:57:31  <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, the word "issue" is superfluous
11:57:47  <samu> t.t
12:00:24  <samu> brb
12:00:46  <samu> Side effect behaviour: Oil Rigs can spawn everywhere, not only on the edge of the world.
12:00:48  <samu> better?
12:01:14  <Eddi|zuHause> so you replace one superfluous word with another superfluous word, that is also longer?
12:01:43  <samu> hmm
12:01:49  <samu> how would you do it?
12:02:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i would look up the definition of superfluous
12:03:08  <samu> Unintended issue?
12:03:20  <samu> Bug?
12:04:02  <samu> Bogus feature?
12:05:39  <samu> serving no useful purpose; having no excuse for being
12:07:12  <supermop> goodnight
12:08:12  <samu> Known issue?
12:09:42  <samu> Side effect?
12:09:47  <samu> without a 3rd word?
12:11:03  <samu> that would be implying it is welcome
12:11:43  <Eddi|zuHause> it really does not...
12:12:46  <Alberth> it means "something unplanned happened as well"
12:14:09  <samu> ok, thnks
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12:16:44  <samu> and now, the real question, how can I fix it?
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12:29:52  <Alberth> adding a callback that checks the distance and denies allowing to build it
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12:38:54  <Ketsuban> Dang, Alberth.
12:39:12  <Ketsuban> I didn't expect you to merge the patch straight into the project. :P
12:40:39  <Alberth> oh, sorry :p
12:41:40  <Ketsuban> I presume you tested it and it worked? If so I am astonished, given that I wasn't able to test it myself.
12:42:35  <Ketsuban> Oh, looks like you merged by hand, which I did expect. Okay.
12:42:56  <Alberth> yeah, and  s/\80/{STRING}/   mostly
12:43:30  <Ketsuban> Mkay. I guess maybe what I read was targeted at people writing NFO.
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12:45:17  <Wolf03> go away Wolf01
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12:47:32  <Wolf01> stupid old cd games with copy protection, I'm doomed to connect the external dvd drive every time I need to play one
12:49:11  <Wolf01> btw, samu, I don't have any problem playing locomotion on win 8.1 beside the resolution which is not the native one
12:49:30  <Eddi|zuHause> go look up a nocd crack, man.
12:49:51  <Wolf01> eh, there isn't the EU 1.76 one
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12:50:04  <Wolf01> EU 1.0 or US 1.76
12:50:11  <Eddi|zuHause> then i can't help you.
12:50:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never actually played locomotion
12:51:20  <andythenorth> I have seen screenshots
12:51:22  <andythenorth> that is enough
12:51:44  <Wolf01> I could fix it, if I want to throw away some days of re-learning the assembly code and use a debugger
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13:03:45  <andythenorth> cat is copy-protected
13:04:00  <andythenorth> is today the day when consist management is figured out? o_O
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13:06:16  <samu> i found a bug
13:06:27  <samu> cargo flow doesn't show on the extra viewports
13:08:48  <Alberth> cargo flow panel controls the main display window only
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13:15:45  <andythenorth> Alberth: are you playing a FIRS game?
13:16:25  <Alberth> I was pondering to stop, the game looks mostly done :)
13:18:46  <Alberth> andythenorth:
13:23:17  <samu> layout_num
13:23:17  <andythenorth> been busy with farms
13:26:43  <andythenorth> Alberth: no bee? o_O
13:27:33  <samu> watch that:
13:27:47  <samu> there is a CHECK_OIL_RIG
13:27:59  <samu> how do I put that in the .nml file?
13:28:00  <Alberth> andythenorth:  -rw-rw-r--. 1 alberth alberth 148096 Dec 13 21:13 save/Heerhugorecht Transport, 1862-01-03.sav   <-- started pre-BB :)
13:28:08  <andythenorth> ah
13:29:40  <samu> i'm trying to decipher callback
13:30:05  <samu> the callback must point to CHECK_OIL_RIG?
13:30:47  <Alberth> no, you have to code such a check in newgrf yourself
13:31:08  <samu> callback_flags: bitmask(CHECK_OIL_RIG);
13:31:41  <samu> but the distance is depenand on a game setting, how do i make the newgrf look into the value?
13:33:06  <samu> Maximum distance from edge for Oil Refineries: this value
13:33:23  <samu> yesterday I proved that setting is also applied to Oil Rigs
13:34:03  <Alberth> only the default industries, ie if you don't make a newgrf
13:34:32  <Alberth> your 'CHECK_OIL_RIG' does not check for edge distance
13:34:39  <Alberth> you have to add that
13:37:00  <samu> newgrf can't interact with game settings?
13:37:30  <andythenorth> depends on the setting
13:37:33  <andythenorth> some can be read
13:38:14  <samu> erm, i feel like i'm repeating myself, this game setting: "Maximum distance from edge for Oil Refineries: this value"
13:38:39  <samu> i'm confused
13:39:17  <samu> I need a callback that checks distance, this distance is based on the value that is set there
13:39:47  <samu> must find an example of a callback somewhere
13:51:33  <samu> "Removing or changing the ID of an existing vehicle, house, industry, airport, station or industry tile or objectIf you haven't defined explicitly any IDs: always add new items to the end of the list, the new vehicle is the last vehicle of that type, the new tiletype the last tiletype, the new industry the last industry; don't comment out an existing one or re-sort the items " - is this the problem I'm facing?
13:59:45  <Alberth> sounds like compatibility advice to me
14:02:01  <samu> I'm lost again :(
14:02:16  <samu> I am trying to decipher the first table
14:02:18  <samu>
14:02:36  <samu> namely, the oil rig, what are those values supposed to mean
14:03:09  <andythenorth> the first table is numbers from the action 0 props
14:03:25  <andythenorth>
14:03:37  <andythenorth> action 0 in nfo <=> property block in nml
14:05:59  <andythenorth> samu: are you trying to provide a distance check when constructing the industry?
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14:11:23  <DanMacK> Hey all
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14:16:10  <samu> yup
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14:18:16  <andythenorth> lo DanMacK
14:24:28  <Guest4559> Town growth can be accelerated by loading and unloading at least one item of cargo at up to five stations within town influence within a two month period. It does not matter which cargos are loaded/unloaded.
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14:24:40  <roidal> how exactly is that to interpret?
14:25:13  <roidal> if there is a powerplant within influence of a city, and i deliver coal to this plant
14:25:19  <roidal> the city starts to grow?
14:35:07  <Alberth> seems to fit in the description, doesn't it?
14:35:22  <Alberth> perhaps try it?
14:36:02  <roidal> i don't see this effect
14:36:18  <roidal> but now i try to deliver cargo to the city itselfe
14:38:00  <Alberth> don't know where you got that quote, but you may want to check against the Game Mechanics wiki page
14:40:00  <roidal> it is from there
14:40:03  <roidal> :D
14:40:11  <roidal>
14:40:15  <samu> andythenorth: it's not when constructing myself, but when the game itself decides to spawn one over the course of a game
14:40:32  <andythenorth> use industry location_check cb
14:40:56  <andythenorth> iirc, return CB_RESULT_LOCATION_ALLOW or CB_RESULT_LOCATION_DISALLOW
14:41:22  <andythenorth> might need to do it in the industry check, or the tile check
14:44:16  <samu> oh, sorry, this is misleading, apparently this also applies to players in a game, just tried to build an oil rig in the inside and i get the error: can only be positioned near edges of map
14:44:30  <samu> this is the behaviour that is missing
14:44:34  <samu> ok let me try to do that
14:46:16  <frosch123> andythenorth: he, now also pkp set starts to spam people with telling them to register on eints :p
14:47:04  <andythenorth> it’s a trend
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14:54:06  <samu> switch (FEAT_INDUSTRIES, SELF, oil_rig_spawn, <expression>) {
14:54:13  <samu> what's an expression
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14:55:34  <andythenorth> can be as simple as looking up a variable
14:55:38  <andythenorth> or more complex
14:55:58  <samu> Parameter from another GRF
14:55:58  <andythenorth> as an example case, you could just check game date there, and allow / disallow based on date
14:56:20  <andythenorth> or anything else that’s a valid variable in a switch
14:56:36  <samu> it's a switch block that I need?
14:57:00  <samu> ummmph
14:58:19  <samu> what is the <grfid> of OpenTTD game settings, if such thing exists?
14:59:00  <andythenorth> there isn’t
14:59:07  <andythenorth> you’ve got a misunderstanding ;)
14:59:20  <samu> as always :(
14:59:33  <andythenorth> happens
15:00:16  <andythenorth> what variable do you want to check?
15:00:33  <samu> i am looking for the distance from edge for oil refineries to put there as an expression
15:01:08  <andythenorth> hmm
15:01:22  <samu> brb
15:01:37  <andythenorth> not sure there’s a handy var for that
15:02:07  <samu> in openttd.cfg oil_refinery_limit = 32
15:02:19  * andythenorth wonders, maybe check map size and current tile?
15:02:23  <samu> it can be customized from 12 to 48
15:02:26  <andythenorth> dunno, someone else will know better than me
15:02:38  <andythenorth> you can’t read that setting from newgrf afaict
15:02:41  <samu> Alberth: !!
15:02:44  <samu> :O
15:03:02  <andythenorth> nah, Alberth always takes care to not know newgrf spec too well ;)
15:03:16  <Alberth> :)
15:03:53  <andythenorth> it’s a silly setting anyway
15:04:18  <samu> it must retrieve it from there, not silly :(
15:04:39  <andythenorth> it’s a silly feature, why replicate it?
15:04:41  <Alberth> use a parameter?
15:04:48  <andythenorth> better to not limit oil rigs
15:05:12  <samu> it affects oil rigs, even though the description only mentions Oil Refineries
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15:05:33  <andythenorth> ok, so to prevent that, put ‘1’ in the expression (should work iirc)
15:05:45  <andythenorth> and return ‘CB_RESULT_LOCATION_ALLOW’ in the switch
15:05:51  <andythenorth> then oil rigs will build anywhere
15:07:44  <frosch123> we should trash all the weird industry settings, and bundle ogfx+industries with ottd, and make it default :)
15:07:58  <andythenorth> I suggested that years ago :P
15:08:05  <samu> 48 tiles ->
15:08:20  <samu> 12 tiles ->
15:08:29  <andythenorth> frosch123: default industries would have to stay in code, because of newgrfs over-riding?
15:08:45  <frosch123> yes, but noone would see them
15:08:57  <samu> I did
15:08:59  <samu> :(
15:09:02  <andythenorth> developers would see them
15:09:04  <andythenorth> ugh
15:09:10  <frosch123> otoh, newgrf authors will have a harder time if they no longer know what "default" is :p
15:09:58  <andythenorth> tmwftlb :)
15:10:06  <andythenorth> do flat docks instead :P
15:14:37  <samu> let me look at ogfx+industries behaviour
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15:17:11  <samu> it is bugged also
15:17:20  <samu> oil rig just spawned right in the middle
15:18:52  <Alberth> it's not, that is intended
15:19:22  <samu> intended bug, as someone used to say
15:19:27  <samu> :(
15:19:46  <roidal> another question: does there apear new cities while playing?
15:20:26  <andythenorth> no
15:20:43  <Alberth> unless you found one :)
15:21:23  <samu> also, your refineries are spawning inside, so uhm....
15:21:30  <samu> it's your grf?
15:22:07  <V453000> I dont think anybody has a problem with it samu XD
15:23:07  <samu> there is a parameter to change that setting, this one can't be intended, as it is set to 16 tiles
15:23:17  <samu> and they're spawning anywhere
15:23:38  <samu> NewGRF parameter on openttd+industries
15:23:48  <Alberth> I don't consider it my newgrf, but I don't know who owns it, probably including its owners
15:24:30  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like an inherent TTD problem :p
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15:24:48  <Alberth> samu: it says "oil refineries"
15:24:55  <samu> yes
15:25:01  <samu> they are spawning inside
15:25:08  <Alberth> and "distance from water"
15:25:15  <Alberth> not "edge"
15:25:39  <samu> oh, i see
15:26:12  <samu> oh, so it's intended
15:26:23  <samu> they're spawning close to rivers
15:26:26  <samu> lel
15:26:58  <Eddi|zuHause> that's where the refinery is over here... "realism"
15:27:29  <samu> i've read that wrong
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15:27:43  <Alberth> no way to make groups of parameters for newgrf, is there?
15:28:10  <Alberth> a sanely ordered list is probably the best one can do
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15:29:11  <Eddi|zuHause> a tree could be useful
15:29:23  <Eddi|zuHause> and parameters that only show up when newgrf_developer is active
15:29:30  <V453000> XD
15:29:41  <V453000> that sounds evil Eddi
15:29:45  <Alberth> like that would stop anyone :p
15:30:19  <V453000> rather make a new cfg value for privileged_person :P
15:30:36  <frosch123> we have that for ais
15:30:47  <frosch123> anyway, settings trees for newgrfs have been suggested before
15:31:17  <Eddi|zuHause> but you can't buy anything with a suggestion :p
15:31:21  <frosch123> but as long as there are no newgrf with more than 5 settings, it's a silly suggestion
15:31:50  <Alberth> what about 18 settings?   ogfx+industries
15:32:06  <V453000> for me top priority would at the moment be to get _some_ rules on how to make land sprites :)
15:32:06  <V453000> frosch123: ? :P
15:32:13  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it would help with CETS, as instead of a complicated list i could have a sub-tree with a setting for each entry
15:32:20  <frosch123> the base cost mod has many settings, but i do not see how that could make use of a tree
15:32:35  <frosch123> ogfx+industries is likely the only grf
15:32:38  <frosch123> cets does not exist :p
15:32:42  <Alberth> :D
15:33:03  <samu> where can i find ogfx nml files?
15:33:07  <frosch123> V453000: i started on the land sprites :)
15:33:13  <V453000> : ) :) :)
15:33:18  <V453000> how far did that get? :P
15:33:23  <samu> ogfx+industries .nml's
15:33:30  <frosch123> i made an object grf with plain white tiles
15:33:46  <frosch123> but now need to add 1x and 2x zoom plain white tiles
15:33:55  <V453000> right
15:33:59  <samu> ?
15:34:08  <frosch123> i started on the 1x ones
15:34:09  <V453000> & everyone will align to those objects you make?
15:34:33  <frosch123> i can put the objects everywhere, so can compare them with any existing base tiles
15:34:47  <frosch123> they have coloured borders, so you can tell when stuff overlaps
15:35:13  <V453000> :)
15:40:52  <Alberth> samu: it's generated from the .pnml files
15:41:43  <samu> ... figuring out where the oil refinery placement rules is located
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15:46:09  <Alberth> samu:  src/industry_definition.pnml  around line 118
15:46:14  <samu> spec_flags:
15:46:17  <samu> this must be it
15:46:54  <samu> oh, that
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15:56:56  * andythenorth thinks nested newgrf settings might be better
15:56:59  <andythenorth> or worse
15:57:05  <andythenorth> one of those two anyway
15:57:09  <andythenorth> unlikely to be ‘meh'
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16:10:43  <samu> when im creating the .grf file, i get an error
16:11:05  <samu> ←[Knmlc ERROR: "oilrig.nml", line 76: Unrecognized identifier 'CHECK_OIL_RIG
16:11:24  <samu>  location_check: bitmask(CHECK_OIL_RIG);
16:13:46  <samu> i must use switch?
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16:28:15  <andythenorth> CHECK_OIL_RIG doesn’t mean anything in this context
16:28:32  <andythenorth> do you want to always allow construction?  Or limit it according to rules?
16:29:02  <andythenorth> location_check: CB_RESULT_LOCATION_ALLOW;
16:29:15  <samu> limit according to rules
16:29:15  <andythenorth> would allow construction I think
16:29:27  <andythenorth> if you want rules, you need switch or switches
16:30:30  <samu> i still don't know how to refer to a value that is not part of the .grf
16:31:33  <samu> the rules are being overriden :(
16:31:39  <andythenorth> what value do you want to refer to?
16:33:04  <samu> game_creation.oil_refinery_limit
16:33:06  <samu> i think that's it
16:33:50  <andythenorth> I couldn’t see a var that would let you read that
16:34:10  <andythenorth> I also can’t see an obvious var to read the distance to edge of map
16:34:15  <andythenorth> there is probably a way to do it
16:34:32  <andythenorth> but you might have to get the map size, check the current tile x and y
16:34:48  <andythenorth> or do a circular tile search for radius n
16:35:07  <samu> :(
16:35:16  <andythenorth> but still, I don’t think you can read the game setting for oil refinery distance
16:35:33  * andythenorth wonders if there’s some global var for it, or in 80+
16:35:54  <Eddi|zuHause> circular search for map edge? you know exactly where the edge is if you know your own coordinates
16:36:06  <andythenorth> read the map size?
16:36:31  <Eddi|zuHause> you can read log(map size)
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16:36:58  <andythenorth> is the relevant distance manhattan, or crow-flies?
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16:37:03  <samu> what would happen if I change the value during mid-game? will the grf respond to it?
16:37:17  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: for distance to edge, that is the same
16:37:40  * andythenorth draws a triangle in his head, for a tile near a corner
16:37:42  <andythenorth> yeah, ok
16:37:51  <samu> i get the feeling it can't be done
16:38:08  <andythenorth> I don’t think that setting is exposed to newgrf
16:39:09  <samu> what does override, substitute do exactly?
16:39:17  <andythenorth> can’t see anything in savegame internals about that setting
16:40:02  <andythenorth> nor global vars
16:40:06  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: "override" means "use this industry instead of that one", and "substitute" means "use that industry if someone dares to remove the GRF"
16:40:30  <andythenorth> samu: I think you don’t need to continue this specific quest, you can’t read that setting
16:40:45  <andythenorth> or at least, I can’t find it in newgrf docs
16:40:45  <samu> oh, too bad :(
16:40:55  <andythenorth> it’s a silly setting anyway
16:41:05  <andythenorth> why do you want oil rigs near map edge?
16:41:27  <samu> what I'm replacing is only the layout, so, maybe override, substitute could be wrong since it's referring to an entire new industry?
16:41:34  <samu> I dunno
16:41:57  <Eddi|zuHause> you dunno.
16:42:06  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe read up on it if you dunno?
16:42:25  <samu> "use this industry instead of that one"
16:43:12  <samu> maybe the issue is in how the game looks for the industry?
16:43:32  <samu> gahhh...
16:44:31  <samu> how to refer to my layout name directly?
16:44:58  <samu> in the svn file -> static const IndustryTileTable * const _tile_table_oil_rig[] = {
16:45:12  <samu> must i name my layout _tile_table_oil_rig_0 ?
16:45:56  <andythenorth> nope
16:46:05  <samu> so basically, not defining a new industry per se, only a new layout
16:46:13  <andythenorth> there is absolutely no connection between the identifiers in the game C++ and the identifiers in nml
16:47:10  <Wolf01> ahah!
16:49:06  <samu> my lack of knowledge really makes it hard for me to explain stuff
16:50:38  <samu> well, I am giving up then, if that's not possible to do
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16:55:10  <samu> last try, messing around with the override/substitute, and that's it
16:55:16  <samu> brb
16:57:20  <samu> INDUSTRYTYPE_OIL_RIG - is this the same as 0x05 ?
16:57:51  <samu> whatever, I'll figure it out
16:59:55  <Alberth> looks like it
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17:00:16  <Phreeze> are you still programming in NFO ?
17:00:36  <samu> without override line, there is now two types of Oil Rigs
17:00:41  <samu> lel
17:00:51  <Alberth> in general, when you have to fight a system and it's not your lack of knowledge, take it as a sign that maybe, just maybe, your ideas are not as good as you think
17:01:47  <Alberth> rather than trying the seemingly impossible, try to find a middle way that works
17:02:15  <samu> i wanna fool the game into thinking it's still the same oil rig
17:02:30  <samu> because the overrides is flawed somewhere
17:03:11  <Alberth> why?
17:03:19  <Alberth> the game doesn't care
17:04:28  <samu> it appears part of the override or substitute has a flaw from my limited understanding
17:05:50  <samu> or if it's not in that, then it is the part of the game where it decides when to build an industry that is flawed
17:05:57  <Alberth> what I am trying to say that maybe the 'flaw' isn't a flaw, but it's designed to do that, and the original is considered to be flawed
17:06:25  <Alberth> and you are trying very hard to re-introduce the flaw
17:06:34  <samu> .o
17:07:14  <Alberth> which is not a problem in its own, but it is good to think whether that is a good idea
17:09:40  <Alberth> which brings us back to the question why you want oil rigs only at the edge of the map
17:10:04  <samu> it's their intended behaviour
17:10:10  <Alberth> and quite maybe, "the original did it" isn't a very good reason
17:10:13  <samu> I didn't want to change that
17:10:31  <Alberth> ok, you still don't?
17:11:37  <samu> I don't what?
17:12:55  <Alberth> I didn't want to change that  <-- that
17:13:04  <samu> yes
17:13:41  <Eddi|zuHause> are you 12 by any chance?
17:13:44  <Alberth> well, you're not going to get the oil refinery limit from openttd, it seems you can't get it
17:14:10  <Alberth> but you can use a parameter instead to set it for your newgrf
17:14:14  <Eddi|zuHause> or, maybe, 6?
17:14:47  <samu> can the parameter be set to read values from the game settings?
17:14:57  <Alberth> NO
17:15:01  <samu> ok :(
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17:15:21  <Eddi|zuHause> that. was. loud.
17:15:30  <samu> I'm sorry
17:15:57  <Alberth> well, I think we tried telling it for a zillion times already, and it didn;t seem to register
17:18:13  <Alberth> you understand you are making a lot of assumptions on the map layout, right?
17:18:31  <samu> yeah
17:18:34  <Alberth> eg land around the edges, and water in the middle will fail
17:18:48  <andythenorth> I stopped trying to help because I don’t understand the goal :)
17:20:28  <samu> can't be done, according to Albert
17:21:43  <andythenorth> I lost track of the goal somewhere
17:22:34  <Rubidium> you know the original goal of the map edge limit for oil refineries was to have refineries near water connected to (most) oil rigs. Primarily since oil rigs would be at the edge due to the watery edges
17:23:25  <b_jonas> Rubidium: indeed. and it allows a nice network where you run oil trains around the edge of the map and passenger trains in the middle of the map
17:24:23  <Rubidium> with a 256x256 map that means a refinery is at most 128 away, with 4096x4096 it's at most 2048. So in the early game you can't even have profitable vehicles carrying coal from the center area since they take way more than 1 year for a round trip
17:30:29  <samu> can i talk?
17:39:17  <peter1138> No.
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18:00:48  * andythenorth legoing
18:02:45  <V453000> fucking christ, openttd traffic is much more intelligent than this max plugin ._.
18:03:00  <V453000> "realistic simulation of cars" my ass
18:03:13  <V453000> the realism is clearly killing it
18:03:53  <Eddi|zuHause> what's a max plugin?
18:05:21  <V453000> Autodesk 3DS Max plugin
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18:41:43  <samu> im doing a snow line height comparison between TTDX and OTTD
18:42:23  <samu> the default isn't 7 or 6, it's something in-between
18:46:30  <samu> if there was a "6.5" that would be it
18:51:00  <samu> oh, nevermind, looks like the issue is something else
18:51:25  <samu> it's opengfx that is not drawing snow where it was supposed to be snow
18:51:40  <samu> original_windows doesn't have this problem
18:52:54  <frosch123> yes, the newer basesets fix the ttd snow behaviour
18:53:04  <frosch123> ttd snow considers the height of the north corner of a tile
18:53:14  <frosch123> which results in asymmetric snow levels
18:56:40  <V453000> "issue" is somewmere else :)
18:58:27  <andythenorth> probably next to cat
18:58:45  <Phreeze> bad feature
18:58:49  * andythenorth takes a picture of am multimeter
18:58:53  <andythenorth> am / a *
19:02:09  <samu> I compared the three
19:11:29  <samu> compare:
19:15:10  <V453000> yes, different mechanism
19:15:13  <V453000> where is a problem :)
19:15:29  <samu> it's apples to apples comparison
19:15:40  <V453000> ttd just takes the tile and puts amount of snow there, opengfx tries to make more of a gradient
19:15:50  <V453000> it is apples to whatever the hell else :)
19:16:04  <samu> that's not ttd, that's original_windows
19:16:17  <V453000> am aware, sorry for wrong word
19:16:45  <samu> land area information says the tile is snow-covered, while it's not
19:17:16  <V453000> ._.
19:17:50  <V453000> well if it such a huge problem you can drew some tiny bits of snow to those ogfx snow sprites :)
19:17:54  <V453000> draw*+
19:20:08  <V453000> but my guess is that most people prefer the smoother transition
19:21:14  <samu> ah I see what you've done
19:23:35  <V453000> I didnt do anything :)
19:28:33  <samu> yeah ottd transition looks more natural, but only two transition levels are clearly noticeable
19:29:23  <V453000> ok 2 questions
19:29:25  <samu> original_windows does have a visible 3rd transition, but makes it look squary
19:29:27  <V453000> what is your problem
19:29:31  <V453000> what are you going to do about it
19:29:47  <samu> nothing, just looking at it
19:30:15  <V453000> looking at something for 2 hours without a reason sounds strange
19:31:30  <samu> :)
19:36:19  <andythenorth> V453000 I think we are so far off the ‘strange’ scale
19:36:35  <andythenorth> that we shouldn’t comment
19:36:58  * andythenorth reads the tile location checks for every single bloody FIRS industry
19:37:02  <andythenorth> all 66 of them
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19:48:52  <V453000> andythenorth: XD
19:49:01  <V453000> I do everything for a good reason
19:49:06  <V453000> with clear aim
19:49:22  <andythenorth> I don’t
19:49:33  <andythenorth> I do it for the lulz
19:52:39  <V453000> :D
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20:34:30  <samu> hey, the close all windows hotkey also closed message from manufacturer :(
20:34:40  <samu> such a bad timing
20:35:26  <V453000> must be a bug
20:35:27  <samu> if it had shown up a second later
20:35:42  <samu> yeah
20:36:49  <samu> not a bug, but a suggestion
20:38:22  <Eddi|zuHause> weird... i got a "steam password reset" e-mail, even though i didn't request it...
20:38:42  <V453000> that was just me trying to hack into your steam porn database Eddi
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20:44:38  <DanMacK> Hey all
20:45:55  <V453000> hi
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20:57:31  *** chillcore [~chillcore@] has joined #openttd
20:58:10  <chillcore> hello all ;)
20:58:15  <V453000> hihi
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20:59:31  <chillcore> I am not disturbing any big converstaions? Seeing as this canel is always  on-topic :P
21:00:11  <chillcore> I was just wondering what the current status of the vieport is ... in rregards of MHL and glitches. unfortunately I am unable to recreate them
21:00:17  <Alberth> just ignore any other discussion :p
21:00:38  <V453000> what is MHL :D
21:00:44  <chillcore> k. Hi Alberth
21:00:54  <Alberth> bigger hills, V :)
21:01:16  <chillcore> More Height Levels in trunk is troubled or something. at least that is what I saw in the screenshots
21:01:20  <V453000> ah right
21:01:48  <V453000> from my POV, setting higher values (like than 25) just creates stupid hills which only go up, and up, and up, until the cap
21:02:05  <V453000> it would be nicer if the algorithm stopped making a hill occassionally XD
21:02:13  <chillcore> the viewport needs rewriting completely and I have no clue what the current status is.
21:02:45  <Alberth>   <-- a fun one, not sure if it's related, but along the side line at least
21:03:19  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:03:45  <Alberth>   is the one I was looking for
21:04:15  <Alberth> no progress there, so I assume that the patch by frosch has not been added
21:04:35  <V453000> tall glitches are fixable? :0
21:04:39  <Alberth> which also matches with my local repository copy
21:05:07  <chillcore> I agree V453000. Check out the patch I wrote for tuning the perlin noise parameters ;) you can regenerate the map over and over again without having to wait for anything. Just the terrain (scneario editor). feel free to pass me some values you like for the presets.
21:05:29  <V453000> =D
21:05:40  <V453000> where can I find it?
21:05:48  <Alberth> V  those are due to adding MHL, that didn't take new bridge height into account afaik
21:05:49  <frosch123> chillcore: i just didn't commit the fixes yet
21:06:35  <chillcore> development forum under "to tweak or not to tweak" v453000
21:06:58  <V453000> hahaaa
21:06:58  <Alberth> I'd like to talk to you about that too
21:07:05  <V453000> me only reads grafix development forum :P
21:07:32  <chillcore> ... taking notes Alberth.
21:07:39  <Alberth> :)
21:07:43  <Alberth>
21:07:46  <V453000> chillcore: could you compile a win64 binary for me to test please? :)
21:08:02  <Alberth> I am looking into rewriting the world-gen window
21:08:09  <chillcore> not commited yet I see frosh thx for the info
21:08:10  <V453000> holyfuck Alberth
21:08:12  <V453000> :)
21:08:14  <Alberth> those pictures are work in progress
21:08:44  <chillcore> Frosh: I do not have anything set up on my windoze yet ... I'll have a looksie tomorrow or maybe in a bit?
21:08:46  <V453000> Alberth: possible to make big buttons on the left to fill the whole column? :P
21:08:59  <Alberth> currently a bit stuck on mhl fixes. I want to draw the map as preview
21:09:09  <Alberth> V453000: not sure the left side even stays
21:09:21  <V453000> ritez :)
21:09:37  <chillcore> I see Alberth. that would perhaps be better than what I had in mind ... re-using the smallmap's contour mode
21:09:45  <Alberth> it seems a waste of screen space :)
21:09:47  <frosch123> chillcore: you meant to talk to V ?
21:10:59  <chillcore> hmm who asked for a windoze binarie? these names in yellow are practically unreadable
21:11:03  <chillcore> sorry?
21:11:15  <Alberth> that's V  :D
21:11:19  <chillcore> yes Frosh my appologies
21:11:43  <V453000> XD
21:11:46  <V453000> ^^
21:12:12  <V453000> it is especially wtf when frosch dares to use f123000 in game :D
21:12:40  <chillcore> those screenis lok very nice Alberth ;)
21:13:01  <chillcore> sorry typing ..; I need a keyboard that is cabled again
21:13:08  <V453000> .
21:13:20  <V453000> ancient keyboards ftw
21:13:32  <frosch123> V453000: anything wrong with f123000? :p
21:13:38  <V453000> no, perfectly fine :)
21:14:11  <Alberth> chillcore: it's a lot of nothing, just splitting the window into smaller parts, I have been doing some rewriting in the calculation code too, but that's not visible :)
21:14:36  <Alberth> not sure how to proceed though
21:14:50  <Alberth> I guess at some point it should be merged somehow
21:15:48  <chillcore> hmm ... have you checked out my patch? the code I mean? 200_10 is pretty cool in itself. but useless untill you have an extra gui
21:18:08  <chillcore> Alberth: your screenies are somewhat similar to what I had in mind. but I did not get that far yet. this gui stuffs from scratch is pretty extensive
21:18:21  <chillcore> these are meant for new game or scenario?
21:18:35  <Alberth> is the total patch, but it seems very hack-ish
21:18:46  <Alberth> I can give you a patch queue if you want
21:19:09  <Alberth> (it's in the same state, but in smaller pieces :p )
21:20:02  <Alberth> at least for "new game" don't know how the scenario comes into play, but it would be useful there too
21:20:45  <Alberth> I have your patch somewhere, but no 7z
21:21:30  <chillcore> A patch queue would be cool too. ... what format would you prefer? I can rezip and PM them to you (or upload to forums)
21:21:33  <Alberth> I installed that too, but didn't put it into a clone so I can try it
21:22:37  <chillcore> Hmm my browser refuses to open that link to your patch. I willhave to check the logs in a bit and open manually.
21:23:07  <Alberth> I have 7z now, just didn't have time so far to extract the patches, and install them in a clone
21:23:17  <Alberth> it's 192K text :)
21:23:33  <chillcore> hihi
21:25:02  <Alberth>   patch queue
21:25:21  <Alberth> no series file, but that's easy to make :)
21:25:27  <chillcore> feedback much apreciated but do note I am not done yet ... there is a few todo's and not yet finished patches not included in the last zip
21:25:36  <chillcore> indeed pretty easy
21:26:35  <Alberth> it's all random hacking, nothing is final yet :)
21:26:51  <Alberth> but you may be able to use parts
21:27:12  <chillcore> that is fine. and indeed. thx ;)
21:27:51  <Alberth> the worldgen window is a big monster, with lots of code
21:28:02  <Alberth> still trying to wrap my head around it :)
21:28:17  <chillcore> I tried to keep my patches as clean as possible but some things ended up in top ...
21:28:34  <chillcore> It is ... I tried to keep it simples?
21:28:44  <glx> left panel is ugly ;)
21:29:08  <chillcore> not anymore the lines are aligned as text not as label no more glx
21:29:09  <Alberth> tried to keep it as simple as possible
21:29:18  <chillcore> yeah alberth?
21:29:22  <andythenorth> we can fix layout later
21:29:25  <andythenorth> when it works
21:29:28  <chillcore> indeed
21:29:41  <Alberth> you didn't ask for english correction?  sorry
21:29:46  <andythenorth> are the buttons the right buttons <- more important
21:30:16  <Alberth> glx: I don't like the left window much, it's highly likely to get removed
21:30:25  <Alberth> *panel
21:30:54  <glx> some kind of tabs would be better
21:31:04  <chillcore> glx: I saw someone mentioning the labels being centered here in the logs and changed it.
21:31:15  <andythenorth> I had some designs kicking around ages ago
21:31:19  <Alberth> it belongs at the bottom somewhere, I think
21:31:26  <andythenorth> somewhere in forums
21:31:42  <chillcore> glx: I changed the whole thing several times and that is why it was labels ten text then ... I am concentrating on functionality
21:32:33  <chillcore> as andy sais ... layout can always be adjustedin the end
21:32:59  <chillcore> I stuffed the gui stuff in frames so they can be shuffled around more easily
21:33:22  <chillcore> later ...
21:33:35  <chillcore> But feel free to make suggestions
21:34:16  <Alberth> I will have a look
21:34:25  <Alberth> not very soon probably
21:34:52  <chillcore> glx: if you download the previous patch queue ... you will find a "wishfull thinking" patch with just some ideas of what it could be in the end
21:35:02  <chillcore> whenever is good alberth
21:35:28  <chillcore> there is tons of stuffs to do still, and I really would like to take my time to get it right
21:35:45  <chillcore> taking my time is relative offcourse
21:36:10  <Alberth> we all do that here, that's why it's not a commercial project :)
21:36:16  <chillcore> I think the viewport is more important at this point in time?
21:36:27  <chillcore> Yay
21:36:40  <chillcore> ^^^ not comercial I mean
21:36:52  <Alberth> yeah, I'd like to have all current functionality first, or at least establish it can work
21:37:04  <Alberth> otherwise it's all useless
21:38:30  <chillcore> I am not yet sure about the 'new game' functionality of patch 200_10 ...  scenario editor I am very happy with
21:38:40  <chillcore> but I lack feedback hehe
21:38:47  <chillcore> seeing as I am biased
21:39:27  <Alberth> scenario editor needs lots of love :)
21:40:03  <Alberth> being able to use the same things for the SE would be very good
21:40:16  <chillcore> would/could someone make a binarie for windows please? for v and others ... not lazy but if I can avoid installing what I need on this windows 8 installation ...
21:40:34  <chillcore> alberth; I do use the same but it opens differently
21:41:01  <samu> i found a bug
21:41:08  <chillcore> in new game you have to click the "terrain options" button for tgen to open
21:41:30  <chillcore> in scenario tgen opens automatically and then the normal gui when you're done
21:41:41  <Alberth> makes sense if you don't want to rewrite the entire world gen window :)
21:41:58  <samu> in the the scenario editor, when you attempt to destroy an oil rig via it's station tile, you can't
21:42:46  <chillcore> alberth: ye ... just the original terragenises ... I am thinking about a seperate tgen gui for that
21:42:56  <chillcore> as opposed to greying out stuffs
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21:43:36  <Alberth> chillcore: if you have input for that would be useful, we're still finding out how you can make such a map :)
21:44:13  <chillcore> let me grab my ipad for a sec ... I really locked down this browser good ;)
21:44:14  <Alberth> your buttons can be a separate tab, or a separate step in the generation process or so
21:44:50  <chillcore> yes that is the idea.
21:45:11  <chillcore> it is hard to explain but while testing it makes sense
21:45:47  <chillcore> I want to move everything that can not be generated without regenerating the map to the tgen gui
21:46:27  <chillcore> except for things that are also needed for original terragenisis .. those would be in the code twice
21:46:42  <chillcore> I mean available in two guis ...
21:46:54  <chillcore> not sure yet
21:47:05  <Alberth> we'll figure it out :)
21:47:11  <chillcore> yeah ;)
21:47:22  <chillcore> going to check flyspray real quick
21:48:02  <Alberth> no hurries, it's interesting, but not game breaking or so
21:48:47  <chillcore> that is  a starnge picture ... never seen anything like that
21:49:11  <Alberth> yeah :)
21:49:19  <chillcore> same as in the topic ... them screenies hackalittlebit made I can not reproduce
21:49:50  <Alberth> world gen is complicated to reproduce to say the least :)
21:50:18  <chillcore> yes ..; that is why I reintroduced a seed and disabled generating a new in scenarioeditor
21:50:36  <chillcore> I did it in a different way then it was before
21:50:40  <chillcore> patch 80
21:51:04  <chillcore> some silly magic going on there ... UINT32_MAX
21:51:10  <chillcore> but I nailed it
21:51:26  <chillcore> on starting openttd a new seed is still generated as is now
21:51:33  <chillcore> and new game too
21:51:40  <chillcore> nothing changed there
21:51:56  <chillcore> I should type longer sentences ... bad habbit
21:52:02  <andythenorth> bad hobbit
21:52:17  <chillcore> that too
21:53:27  <chillcore> bug 6216 seems liek bad values for perlin noise ... read too much out of bounds
21:53:45  <chillcore> I saw a vid on that on the numberphile channel
21:53:49  <chillcore> ;)
21:54:20  <Alberth> ah, we found an expert on the matter :D
21:54:23  <chillcore> forgot her name but she explained something I was seeing too ... flats and little dots
21:54:35  <chillcore> hehe
21:55:12  <Alberth> with your patch, you'd at least have the option to fix the problem
21:55:18  <chillcore> as I uderstand it the intersting part happens in a certain region whern you go to far you get those artifacts
21:55:24  <chillcore> indeed
21:56:11  <chillcore> let me see if I can find that vid ... it is not that long
21:56:18  <Alberth> :)
21:56:46  <Alberth> V is finding new topics on the development forum :)
21:57:44  <V453000> ?
21:57:55  <chillcore> aha "the mandelbrot set" ...
21:58:19  <V453000> ah t3h 3D
21:59:09  <Alberth> andythenorth: "Metal Car" ?
21:59:31  <chillcore> alberth: published 25 juli 2014
22:00:02  <chillcore> I would type in the link but with them Is and Qs
22:01:54  <chillcore> hmm wait ... the thing that I think happens in that bug is a dfferent vid ... link at the end of the vid I mentioned
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22:03:19  <chillcore> better to watch both vids ... so mandelbrot set and the the filled julia set
22:03:20  <Alberth> no idea how to find a video on date alone :)
22:03:36  <chillcore> hmm ok gimme a sec
22:04:00  <Alberth> /me gives lots of secs
22:05:29  <frosch123> <- added manual and register links at top
22:05:39  <frosch123> found matching icons :p
22:05:48  <chillcore>
22:06:00  <chillcore> then at the endof the vid click through
22:06:31  <Alberth> woow, I can translate russian  as well :D
22:06:33  <chillcore> in the second one she mentions what happens if you take things too far in regards of perlin noise
22:06:50  <Alberth> looking good frosch123, icons look very good to me
22:07:05  <chillcore> btw a value of 0 I dissallowed because between 0 and 1 strange things happen
22:07:12  <chillcore> ^^^ alberth
22:07:38  <Alberth> wise precaution :)
22:07:40  <frosch123> hmm, i copied the manual link from the front page
22:07:52  <frosch123> but maybe it should link to the strings section instead
22:08:09  <Alberth> makes sense
22:08:41  <Alberth> chillcore: hmm, firefox is blocking my video plugin thingie, need to look into that
22:08:53  <Alberth> thanks for the link, I'll check it out
22:09:30  <chillcore> change https to http? it blocks here too though in firefox I need to mess around and force html5
22:10:00  <frosch123> ah, we already had a string docs links on the edit page
22:10:05  <Alberth> no, it has to do with plugin being obsolete or not safe or so
22:10:51  <chillcore> instead of flash that isah ok that may be flash ... I got rid off that completely ... too much trouble
22:10:55  <Alberth> frosch123:  I have PolTram in the list, with No Access for both
22:11:25  <chillcore> but yeah you 've gt the link ;)
22:11:26  <frosch123> yes? that
22:11:29  <frosch123> 's correct?
22:12:26  <Alberth>  <-- says "start new"
22:12:32  <frosch123> Alberth: that was the goal of the list, to show for which projects you have to request separate access from project author, resp. not care :p
22:12:55  <frosch123> your "profile" page should tell more
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22:13:15  <chillcore> frosh: chillcore: i just didn't commit the fixes yet <-- any ETA on that? no rush though
22:13:23  <chillcore> hmm frosch
22:13:33  <frosch123> i have a highlight on frosh as well :p
22:13:43  <chillcore> okidoki ;)
22:14:05  *** itsatacoshop247_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:14:06  <frosch123> no idea, tomorrow? i already wanted to do it "tomorrow" two weeks ago though :p
22:14:46  <chillcore> hehe ... tomorrow is fine ... it is just that my shedule may or may not become rather hectic in the comming weeks
22:14:55  <Alberth> it's a great list, I would even go further and allow people to disable projects from showing in the list entirely
22:15:11  <Alberth>  <-- profile page only says "no access"
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22:15:56  <frosch123> nah, "hiding" will confuse people
22:16:10  <frosch123> this way, they have a reason at least
22:16:28  <Alberth> fair enough :)
22:17:19  <frosch123> anyway, we cannot show the "no access" on the language overview page
22:17:22  <frosch123> if you meant that
22:17:41  <frosch123> only the profile page can do that by always requireing login
22:18:02  <frosch123> but the language page is public, so you cannot tell who is accessing it, with the way we do logins
22:18:24  <Alberth> ok, so I wouldn't be able to make a dutch translation for PolTrams  currently?
22:18:41  <frosch123> exactly
22:18:52  <frosch123> <- it is very restrictive
22:19:03  <frosch123> no idea why
22:19:24  <frosch123> but author's choice is author's choice
22:19:45  <Alberth> looks like the regular translators to me, for a subset of languages
22:19:57  <Alberth> assuming you didn't apply for poltrams :p
22:20:27  <frosch123> hmm, oh wait... actually "polroad" and "poltrams" are not subprojects of newgrf
22:20:38  <frosch123> so the "inherit members" does not work
22:20:53  <frosch123> maybe the author was just tired of having to add all groups manually
22:21:04  <Alberth> seems fair enough
22:21:15  <frosch123> also "2cc bus set" and "uk town names" are no subprojects
22:23:59  <frosch123> well, i moved it, but it is not set to inherit members either, that's something the author has to do though
22:25:08  <Alberth> gn
22:25:20  <Alberth> chillcore: thanks for the link
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22:28:54  <frosch123> i wish the projects page was collapsable
22:29:05  <frosch123> so hard to see what projects are not subprojects
22:32:04  <chillcore> Alberth: You are welcome. Fun fact that vid was posted around the time I struggled with that and mentioned something on the forum. there is this other vid too that talks about someones favorite primes smaller then 1000 where I got some cool results too.
22:32:45  <chillcore> The sad thing is I keep forgetting these peeps' names. except for Brady's who makes the vids
22:34:06  <chillcore> there is also ComputerPhile which has stuff on things you will be already familiar with ... still very intersting for me and relaxing as background 'noise'.
22:35:10  <chillcore> Maybe I will go back to shool someday hehe.
22:35:48  <chillcore> ^^^ wishfull thinking
22:36:23  <frosch123> what do you want at school?
22:36:33  <frosch123> i learned all the interesting things outside school
22:36:50  <chillcore> I tried that once ... but I was working in shifts too and after two months I could not cope no more ... working the night and then shool or going to shool and then the late one
22:37:43  <chillcore> frosh: me too ... but I have no degree whatsoever ... except an A3 mechanics which is worth as good as nothing these days ... you get that at 16 here (15 before)
22:38:04  <chillcore> see I'd love to get into the IT industry ... but yeah
22:38:58  <chillcore> they see this dimwit with a degree and then me so they pick him ...
22:39:07  <chillcore> if you know what I mean ...
22:39:23  <chillcore> thought about doing something myself but no capital to start
22:39:51  <chillcore> then again what could I do that has not been done before?
22:40:02  <chillcore> I do not want to rip peeps of like some do
22:40:18  <chillcore> eg candy crush and the likes
22:40:43  <chillcore> though about asking donations and doing full time OpenTTD ... is that even feasabl?
22:40:45  <frosch123> a mechanic? so, at least you can treaten computers with disassembling them, if they act weird :)
22:41:10  <chillcore> not really that kind of mechanic
22:41:23  <frosch123> full time ottd would no longer be ottd
22:41:26  <chillcore> although I am not afraid to dig into that stuffs too
22:41:30  <chillcore> indeed
22:41:44  <frosch123> i wondered whether ottd should hire someone to work on the wiki/manual full time :p
22:42:01  <chillcore> you've got my nr ... hehe
22:43:06  <chillcore> I don't see myself doing youtube vids ...
22:44:14  <frosch123> if you feel lucky :p
22:44:40  <chillcore> I've got an appointment this week for help with finding work ... got this prob with my back (10 kg max) and my eyes and it is hard to find something decent
22:44:43  <frosch123> i mean if you play poker, you can predent at least to have some influence :p
22:44:58  <chillcore> still got hope though
22:45:08  <chillcore> poker hehe
22:45:18  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
22:46:12  <chillcore> no more gambling for me. I was independant may years ago and I am still paying ... bloody interest. should have declared myself bankrupt but I was young and I just stopped when I saw I was not going where I wanted
22:46:23  <chillcore> many*
22:46:56  <chillcore> anyhoo ... I'll know more this week
22:47:08  <frosch123> good luck :)
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22:47:15  <chillcore> thx.
22:47:51  <chillcore> also full time OpenTTD ... would not be a hobby anymore so ...
22:48:54  <frosch123> you cannot put ottd into the iStore, which is the only platform that makes money of shitty games
22:49:11  <chillcore> maybe I could try and go save Godus ... :P
22:49:33  <chillcore> hehe I has a copy ... bad graphics though ... wrong palette
22:49:41  <V453000> I solve full time openttd simply
22:49:54  <V453000> going to work and doing openttd stuff there 50% of the time :P
22:51:16  <chillcore> ^^^openttd I mean ... it is called Transport Bussiness but they did not change the credits. lol
22:51:36  <chillcore> I think it is still there if you search multiple times
22:52:34  <chillcore> nice one V453000.
22:52:50  <V453000> ^^
22:53:04  <frosch123> certainly better than smoknig 50% of the time
22:53:12  <frosch123> unless that's the other 50% V does
22:53:22  <chillcore> hihi
22:53:39  <V453000> XD
22:54:02  <V453000> no, the other 50% I actually work my ass off to make deadlines - totally not because the month before that I spent with openttd graphics
22:55:05  <V453000> but it is great, I learn so many new things all the time
22:55:26  <chillcore> at work or doing OpenTTD?
22:55:30  <V453000> I read some job requirements for vehicle 3D artists in czech ... if I keep this up I might get a job like that :)
22:55:52  <V453000> doing openttd graphics at work chillcore ... instead of actually working
22:56:57  <chillcore> I sees. I never had a job where I had that luxury ... except once ... quality control at Volvo. they had just started the v60 production and we did aprox. 60 cars a shift
22:57:05  <chillcore> man that was boring
22:57:23  <V453000> I even render at work over night :P
22:58:16  <frosch123> the level-1 support hot line works are mostly heavy smokers
22:58:20  <chillcore> Volvo Belgium that is ... but I was extern and could not stay. then they hired on the one condition you had to have the same job for three years and willing to abondon it ... crazy swedes
22:58:42  <frosch123> waiting half of the day outside with the phone in case someone calls
22:58:53  <frosch123> then a lot of hectic and trouble if someone calls
22:58:58  <frosch123> and then back to boredom and smoking
22:59:05  <frosch123> i do not fancy them
22:59:24  <chillcore> I can imagine ... I did sudokus to keep me busy there
22:59:45  <chillcore> boring too after 20 ... :P
23:00:08  <frosch123> it's even worse on friday
23:00:41  <frosch123> the hotline is defined to be available from 8-18, but all the public customers close down at 12, so noone ever calls friday afternoon :p
23:01:01  <V453000> I regularly stay at work longer during the week and gtfo on friday ASAP
23:01:10  <V453000> my friday is like monday^2
23:01:22  <V453000> idk why
23:01:24  <frosch123> i do it the reverse
23:01:44  <V453000> XD
23:01:46  <V453000> anyway
23:01:46  <frosch123> try to leave early during the week, and stay longer on friday when noone bothers you
23:01:47  <V453000> gnight
23:01:52  <V453000> hm :)
23:02:12  <chillcore> hmm 8-18 ... muy previous ISP changed their hours a bit ... instead of all day between 14 and 16. then they got themselves in a bit of troub and noone could get in because evryone called at 14 sgarp
23:02:14  <chillcore> gn
23:02:15  <frosch123> last year i even considered switching saturday/sunday with wednesday/thursday
23:02:27  <V453000> XD
23:02:36  <V453000> nice idea
23:03:11  <frosch123> but i managed to turn down some of the most-annoying interuptions
23:03:21  <frosch123> also the alarm is annoying
23:03:30  <frosch123> there is a movement direction right out of my offie
23:03:48  <chillcore> alarm?
23:03:54  <frosch123> so i cannot leave to grab drinks reps. get rid of them again, without annoying the neighbourhood
23:04:13  <chillcore> ah like that ...
23:04:19  <frosch123> s/direction/detection/
23:04:42  *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:5c81:96e:5617:63db] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:05:11  <chillcore> hehe reminds me ... one day at Volvo I decided to take some fresh air so I went to the door and smoked a sig just outside of it ... not even 2 mins later security camme to check me out
23:05:20  <frosch123> yeah, but otherwise it is great, only the watchman greets you every 3 hours or so :p
23:05:43  <chillcore> hop back inside  ... "You can smoke there too"
23:05:59  <andythenorth> Pikka bob, SARS innit
23:06:04  <andythenorth> what me and Dan are doing
23:07:35  <andythenorth> V453000: you should get a job working on Euro Truck Simulator :P
23:07:41  <andythenorth> I think it’s Czech, maybe
23:07:49  <andythenorth> also highly realisms
23:08:14  <frosch123> factorio is made in prague
23:08:37  <frosch123> but their artist is spannish or so
23:08:45  <andythenorth>
23:09:23  <chillcore> frosh: what would that someone need doing on the wiki? maintenance or translations or ... ?
23:10:01  <andythenorth> accuracy
23:10:15  <frosch123> no idea :) maybe delete stuff :p half of the wiki is out-dated
23:10:28  <chillcore> also lead coder on godus is spanish now
23:11:05  <frosch123> if i visit a random page of the wiki, it usually contains incorrect information
23:11:12  <andythenorth> best thing for wiki would be an unrecoverable data loss
23:11:16  <andythenorth> like a total HD failure
23:11:23  <andythenorth> which also writes junk over the backups
23:11:58  <chillcore> frosh: hmm yeah we should stop developing :P
23:12:43  <chillcore> hmm I used to make changes here and there from time to time ... then life happened
23:14:02  <chillcore> Is editing anonymouse still allowed? don't think I ever created an accutn for it ... is it the same account as flyspray?
23:14:18  <frosch123> no, we disabled anonymous editing
23:14:29  <frosch123> it was the best solution against spam
23:14:33  <chillcore> then I remembered correctly
23:14:42  <frosch123> no bot managed yet to hop through the ottd registration mayhem :)
23:15:04  <frosch123> on the plus side, the main page is no longer protected :)
23:15:06  <chillcore> ye got me in a bit of an e-fight once ... some douche that was deleting the compile pages because it did not work for him
23:16:09  <chillcore> while he was deleting I was restoring and after 6 times or so he left a message "who is reverting my changes"
23:16:26  <chillcore> then he got kicked by one of you
23:16:56  <frosch123> anyway, all on is same account
23:17:16  <frosch123> you need three accounts in the ttd world :), and
23:17:30  <frosch123> all the other pages belong to either of them
23:17:48  <frosch123> like tt-wiki/newgrf-specs to forums, and devzone to coop
23:18:00  <chillcore> then I have all three of them ... that is if is the one for flyspray too
23:18:33  <Wolf01> chillcore, I'll find you and kill you once I recover from the numberphile videos :D
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23:18:58  <chillcore> Wolf: he?
23:19:34  <chillcore> you watched all of them?
23:19:44  <chillcore> click channels ...
23:19:45  <Wolf01> I think I'll do
23:20:16  <chillcore> but yeah pretty good stuffs and nicely explained
23:21:07  <Wolf01> studied almost all of them, it's nice to remember and understand the concepts again
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23:22:16  <andythenorth> bye
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23:23:30  <chillcore> most is new to me ... is what happens when you abandon at 15 ... they should have slapped me silly and sent me back in a straightjacket
23:23:56  <chillcore> but like mentioned by frosh ... I too learned most stuffs outside shool
23:26:10  *** itsatacoshop247 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:31:16  * chillcore wonders what would be easier ... setting up compile env. for windows 8.1 or crosscompiling (which I have no clue how to do)
23:33:22  <chillcore> Also should scripts be allowed to generate custom terrain? <- API
23:33:55  <chillcore> choices choices ...
23:35:35  <chillcore> Wolf01: before you kill me there is also numberphile2 :P
23:35:46  <Wolf01> argh!
23:36:03  <Wolf01> I'll kill you twice
23:36:10  <chillcore> good
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23:37:32  <frosch123> yexo once tried to generate maps via squirrel, but decided that it will be too slow in any case
23:37:35  <Wolf01> I don't know at which hour I'll go to bed this night, maybe I should do it now as I can still think about it
23:38:20  <Wolf01> some more videos and I'll forget I need to sleep, some more I might forget to breathe
23:38:52  <chillcore> frosh: ok ... just wonderingas when I removerd the smoothness from the worldgen gui I also removed the Api stuffs and have not yet replaced with the new tgen_smoothness
23:39:14  <chillcore> ^^^ still works with the old code as the original setting is unchanged
23:39:25  <chillcore> except for adding custom
23:40:24  <chillcore> I need a mind reading keyboard ... one that does not have dyslectic 'fingers' :P
23:41:37  <chillcore> the prob is that now everything is generated and them loops take time
23:41:56  <chillcore> with that patch I have it is just terrain ... rivers seem to take longest
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23:42:54  <chillcore> then again I have them configered much longer as default ... could be that
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23:47:22  <frosch123> night
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23:53:03  <chillcore> alberth: frosh: anyone: fs#6208 reminds me of something I saw in scenario editor too .. tooltips and moving guis about in scenarioeditor leave artifacts too. very faint but they are there
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