Log for #openttd on 14th February 2015:
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01:08:52  <samu> how do i calculate the cost of a tunnel?
01:08:54  <samu>
01:09:05  <samu> is the aqueduct a tunnel or a bridge?
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01:16:09  <Eddi|zuHause> bridge, obviously
01:18:51  <samu> :) well, okay, but
01:19:07  <samu> what is the formula like
01:20:42  <samu> 2 tiles = 2500, 3 tiles = 3750, 4 tiles = 6250, 5 tiles = 8750, 6 tiles = 12500
01:20:50  <samu> I can't follow this patern
01:21:18  <samu> it is nearly exponential, but not quite
01:29:43  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you have the source, find the calculation...
01:38:13  <samu> okay
01:49:44  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- i have not checked whether this is correct
01:49:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose there's a quadratic formula for this
01:51:44  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i mean upper-bound-wise
01:53:15  <Eddi|zuHause> to this factor it adds a bit of fuzz for clearing the end tiles, and building foundations
01:53:27  <samu>
01:54:22  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, you probably have no idea how terribly huge an "exponential" function gets
01:55:39  <Eddi|zuHause> if it were a quadratic equation, the delta would increase by the same amount in each step, this delta grows a bit slower, but is not constant
01:55:48  <Eddi|zuHause> so the formula is inbetween linear and quadratic
01:55:58  <Eddi|zuHause> asymptotically
01:57:37  <Eddi|zuHause> might be nlogn, but i'm not checking this at this hour...
01:58:15  <samu> don't worry much
01:58:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i hope you see how the formula works...
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04:53:49  <supermop> hi
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08:27:35  <supermop> should articulated vehicles cast shadows on other parts of themselves?
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08:40:11  <Supercheese> Answer 1: Yes, they probably should. Answer 2: Nobody will be bothered if they don't.
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08:52:03  <peter1138> No.
08:55:53  <Supercheese> 1 vote for Answer #2, I see
08:58:36  <Alberth> no would be the logical answer, as otherwise you have shadow on the truck but not on the road/houses/bridges/etc
09:00:46  <supermop> also if i render center of tram with a shadow on it cast by rear of tram, i need to re-render for each possible angle that the rear is in relation to the center, or have the shadow be usually wrong
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09:20:48  <peter1138> Then you have two separate trams up close with no shadow between then, but shadows between the parts? Sounds like a bad idea.
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10:18:40  <Wolf01> o/
10:19:07  <Alberth> moin
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10:32:47  <supermop> oh god its true
10:33:18  <supermop> there is a spider with a 3" leg diameter suspended 8' over my terrace right now
10:33:47  <supermop> rear body segment is about 3/4" diameter
10:34:00  <Wolf01> pics or didn't happen
10:34:16  <supermop> its night but i do have a blurry one from my phone
10:34:22  <Wolf01> and a banana for scale
10:34:55  <Wolf01> eh, night, nopeland?
10:35:08  <supermop> a huge exotic looking cockroach ran into my kitchen while i had the door open to take pictures of the spider D":
10:36:08  <Wolf01> maybe it was afraid of the spider too
10:36:43  <supermop> man if that huge spider wants to live in my garden she should pull her weight and eat some of these other huge bugs
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11:10:58  <supermop> which of these center articulations looks best, bearing in mind the round thing will have no shadows cast on it, and everything will be smaller in game?
11:11:01  <supermop>
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11:19:59  <romazoon> the middle one i think look best
11:21:01  <romazoon> i like the first too, the third look strange, why there is that cylinder hanging between the two parts...
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11:34:23  <supermop> thanks romazoon
12:03:36  <supermop> the steel tubes in the third one are from this:
12:03:56  <supermop> but maybe it's too busy to include that as well as the other elements
12:12:10  <supermop> 2nd one is based off this:
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12:16:54  <supermop> im afraid the coffee bins at the front make it look too much like a real tram
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12:27:39  <supermop> goodnight
12:27:55  <Alberth> gn super mop
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12:53:13  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27148 /trunk/src (4 files) (2015-02-14 12:53:07 UTC)
12:53:14  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Rounding and unit-conversion inconsistencies in calls to MarkAllViewportsDirty.
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13:18:34  <roidal_> hi
13:19:17  <roidal_> whats the problem if a client looses connection with "client #x is dropped because it took longer than 100 ticks to start the joining process
13:19:47  <Diablo-D3> too well, it probably took too long
13:19:53  <Diablo-D3> is it a really huge map? or has a lot of shit on it?
13:20:14  <roidal_> oh, we disabled IPv6
13:20:16  <roidal_> now its working
13:20:48  <peter1138> Bah, disabling IP :(
13:20:48  <Diablo-D3> heh, probably was timing out on connecting altogether
13:21:06  <Diablo-D3> yeah its kinda fucked up how ISPs offer IPv6 now, and it basically doesnt work
13:21:23  <peter1138> IP does work. Some people still have misconfigured shit though.
13:21:36  <Diablo-D3> yeah it does work
13:21:41  <Diablo-D3> but like, I disable it locally on my LAN
13:21:58  <Diablo-D3> because I've had issues in the past with retarded software
13:22:01  <peter1138> If it's over an IPv4 tunnel, then likely MTU problems rear their head.
13:22:17  <peter1138> I prefer to disable the retarded software.
13:22:29  <roidal_> we use a SSH-tunnel
13:22:37  <Diablo-D3> yeah I hate the goddamned MTU problems
13:22:38  <roidal_> and it seems that putty had some problem with IPv6
13:22:45  <Diablo-D3> especially since IPv6 is pretty anti-fragment
13:22:51  <Diablo-D3> roidal_: but only if you scp'ed shit?
13:23:08  <roidal_> what?
13:23:10  <roidal_> :D
13:23:27  <Diablo-D3> well, Ive had mtu issues with ssh
13:23:34  <Diablo-D3> it'd work normally until I scp'ed shit
13:23:43  <Diablo-D3> then it'd probably fuck up
13:24:46  <roidal_> ah
13:24:48  <roidal_> kk
13:25:01  <roidal_> we use ssh with port-forwarding
13:25:09  <roidal_> to tunnel openttd
13:25:20  <Diablo-D3> yeah, and thats the same issue
13:25:31  <Diablo-D3> ssh manipulates packet state
13:25:49  <Diablo-D3> like, switching to tcp_nodelay for interactive processes
13:26:03  <Diablo-D3> but setting stuff up for maximum throughput for proxying and scp
13:29:32  <roidal_> mom, restarting client
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13:30:07  <roidal> re
13:30:09  <roidal> :)
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13:58:20  <juzza1> I'm trying to create a mapping of SpriteID <-> sprite.x_offs and y_offs to improve sprite aligner, but getting these compiler errors I don't undertstand
13:58:25  <juzza1> relevant part of the code is also in that paste
13:59:10  <frosch123> you cannot use operator[] on a const map
13:59:25  <frosch123> use the find method instead
13:59:30  <juzza1> ok, thanks
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16:39:08  <andythenorth> o/
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16:40:05  <V453000> o/
16:41:10  * andythenorth is being a diligent python keeper
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16:49:07  <andythenorth> hrm, python 2 to 3, imports need fixing :|
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16:54:14  <andythenorth> oh bollocks
16:54:32  <andythenorth> I just used ‘hg commit —amend -m “[Foo]””
16:54:37  <andythenorth> what have I done to my repo
16:55:02  <andythenorth> it’s talking about hg strip and backup bundles
16:56:04  <andythenorth> I just wanted to amend the commit, and typed it unthinkingly
16:56:09  <andythenorth> because git
16:56:50  <andythenorth> docs say “amend the parent of the working dir”
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17:06:47  <andythenorth> do I need to get my backups?
17:06:54  * andythenorth doesn’t want to push and break the repo
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17:10:25  <chillcore> hello all
17:10:55  <chillcore> thx for r27148 frosch
17:11:32  <chillcore> although it has me scratching my head a bit hehe
17:11:48  <frosch123> it's only the first patch of like 7
17:11:58  <chillcore> 200 pixels for buildings was in the code years ago ...
17:11:59  <chillcore> ok
17:13:34  <chillcore> and TilePixelHeighOutside map ... we already queried the tile height outside map for airplanes not to crash the game
17:13:56  <chillcore> why not multiply that by TILE_HEIGHT?
17:14:05  <chillcore> not that I am complaining or anything
17:14:15  <chillcore> just a bit confused
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17:15:03  <frosch123> all the height functions exist for corners, tiles, max/min height, and with units height levels and traditional pixels
17:15:18  <chillcore> then again frquent reversals of code made me start my patchpack
17:15:31  <frosch123> take a look at the header file, it's just another member in a collection
17:16:37  <chillcore> right tight I see ... my bad ... only paid attention at functionname
17:18:22  * andythenorth pushes anyway
17:18:23  <chillcore> I'd better finish my pactch then soon-ish so peeps can be let loose on setting some nice defaults for smoothness presets
17:18:28  * andythenorth hopes devzone has backups
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17:22:31  <chillcore> I think I am about ready for a code review ... just  a few more things to change and then 10-ish patches
17:22:45  <chillcore> them patches I consider addons so ...
17:26:29  <chillcore> I am just not sure yet if I will need two arays for the smoothness presets yet ... small maps and large maps
17:26:39  <chillcore> -yet
17:29:26  <chillcore> anyhoo I'll be glad if we do not need to disable moreheightlevels in 1.5, I really am
17:31:06  <chillcore> when is the next beta/RC due?
17:32:23  <chillcore> just asking because the masses is better at detecting things, no rush and I do not need exact date
17:33:49  <frosch123> likely after i committed the fixes
17:34:18  <frosch123> but i am still not sure how to split up the viewport code
17:34:35  <frosch123> likely i cannot and have to commit it as a whole :p
17:35:04  <chillcore> hmm ok ... I can post my current version if someone is willing to have a quick look where I need improving things
17:35:36  <chillcore> I'll have another look at that viewport code then after collecting my patches and posting them
17:36:01  <chillcore> not that I will know but I had many looks before
17:37:02  <chillcore> checking if this still compiles and runs ...
17:38:12  <chillcore> I will leave (almost) all todo patches in too
17:38:19  <chillcore> uncommited
17:40:24  <chillcore> before I forget, frosh ... you do realise that with 200 pixels for buidings them tall TTRS buildings will still glitch?
17:40:29  <chillcore> no more as before though
17:40:56  <frosch123> i don't think they are higher than 200 pixels at normal zoom
17:41:20  <frosch123> iirc they are like 150 or so
17:41:36  <chillcore> yes they are, they have always glithed
17:41:46  <chillcore> but only very few of them not all
17:41:51  <chillcore> it is bearable
17:42:01  <chillcore> and you really need to pay attention
17:42:05  <frosch123> how tall are they then?
17:42:17  <chillcore> not nearly as bad as them screenshots I saw
17:42:23  <chillcore> I'd have to chheck
17:42:31  <frosch123> i never play with ttrs, because it is darn ugly, but i have not seen buildings higher than 150
17:42:33  <chillcore> I though 220-ish?
17:42:42  <chillcore> but I am geussing
17:43:05  <chillcore> maybe we should impose a max height to graphic devs?
17:43:12  <chillcore> for the future that is?
17:43:33  <frosch123> there is already, resp now it is more explicit
17:43:45  <frosch123> but what does it matter? some grf do not care about glitches
17:43:55  <chillcore> ah ok ... I am a bnit out of the loop hehe
17:43:57  <chillcore> indeed
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17:44:34  <andythenorth> eh I have coded myself into a corner :P
17:44:37  <andythenorth> bad choices
17:45:02  <chillcore> what I meant that peeps now can create 300 pixel high graphics and OpenTTD will not complain, at  least they could
17:45:27  <frosch123> people can create 32000 pixel high graphics
17:45:33  <frosch123> what does it matter?
17:45:41  <frosch123> anyway, don't confuse zoom levels
17:45:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27149 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2015-02-14 17:45:41 UTC)
17:45:49  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:50  <DorpsGek> korean - 1 changes by telk5093
17:45:55  <frosch123> the limit in the patch queue is 200 at 1x zoom
17:46:05  <frosch123> which is 800 at 4x zoom-in
17:46:24  <chillcore> ah like that ... then yeah it should be fine
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17:49:41  <chillcore> Hmm toolbar changed in scenario editor and I need to adjust where guis open ...
17:50:36  <chillcore> but code works ... I'll add another todo for now and I'll post it
17:50:54  <chillcore> basically it is chosen syntax and implementation I would like feedback on
17:51:11  <chillcore> maybe shortening if elses here and there
17:51:30  <chillcore> brb adjusting some comments in commit messages
17:53:34  <chillcore> hmm toolbar does starnge things too when passing a gui over it ... need to check clean trunk too
17:53:37  <chillcore> yay
17:58:59  <andythenorth> yay
17:59:36  <andythenorth> also Iron Horse is now starting to look like ‘proper’ bureaucratic enterprise code
17:59:44  <andythenorth> extra boilerplate ftw
18:00:01  <andythenorth> at least the linter is happy :|
18:00:29  * andythenorth wonders what’s wrong with ‘code worse, by chocie'
18:00:32  <andythenorth> or even choice
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18:00:58  <andythenorth> lo DanMacK
18:01:01  <Alberth> nothing, as long as the profit is more than the loss
18:01:19  <DanMacK> Hey hey
18:01:26  <andythenorth> I have a feeling that the linter is my friend, if only I’d be nice about it
18:01:49  <chillcore> Told ya the next victory was yours, andy ;) I should start charging for my visions :P
18:02:04  <Alberth> BB should track deliveries, and extend the deadline ?
18:02:42  <andythenorth> Alberth: maybe
18:02:45  <andythenorth> I wondered
18:02:56  <andythenorth> I won’t start any goals with < 4 years or so remaining in current game
18:03:05  <andythenorth> current game has been interesting for a long time btw
18:03:07  <andythenorth> still playing it
18:03:14  <Alberth> :)
18:03:40  <andythenorth> 60 years so far
18:04:25  <andythenorth> I suppose wrapping module code in main() is not a bad habit to get into
18:06:17  <andythenorth> oh dear
18:06:27  <andythenorth> I’ve just seen ways I could make some modules more ‘structured'
18:06:34  <andythenorth> and ‘organised'
18:07:29  <andythenorth> with more data types and utillity code
18:07:37  <andythenorth> this is probably terrible
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18:30:25  <chillcore> hehe bingbot was in my thread as soon as I posted ...
18:31:22  <chillcore> frosch ... the viewport code has not changed in your patchqueueu? just checking as I still have it here
18:31:47  <frosch123> huh? patch 30 deletes it completely
18:32:10  <chillcore> hmm ... what needs splitting then?
18:32:30  <chillcore> I do not have it open ...
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18:35:50  <chillcore> patch 30 adds 4 lines frosch ...
18:36:44  <frosch123> it adds dummy code iirc
18:40:15  <chillcore> ye it sets left-, right_colum and top_row to 0 and adds a fixme comment to
18:41:52  <andythenorth> why do I have Factory pattern code
18:41:57  <andythenorth> surely I could have done that simpler?
18:42:09  <andythenorth> this isn’t some kind of enterprise app
18:42:13  <andythenorth> it just repaints train sprites
18:42:42  <andythenorth> stick to primitives :P
18:44:11  <chillcore> frosh 60 adds code in viewport  ... I do not mind having a go if I knew what it is that needs doing
18:45:02  <chillcore> I'll make a branch and aply them to test in the meantime
18:46:34  <frosch123> you can try whether fs#6208 applies on top of the queue
18:47:04  <frosch123> i haven't actually looked at fs#6208 yet, and how it interacts with the other fixes
18:47:19  <frosch123> fs#6206 is already part of the queue though
18:48:44  * chillcore takes notes of FS##s
18:52:55  <chillcore> that weird terrain FS# should be fixable by my tgen pacth
18:53:25  <chillcore> hard to prevent it as it depends params values used
18:53:49  <chillcore> ^^^ when setting custom that is it should never happen with presets when tuned
18:56:56  <chillcore> I still do not unerstand why ic111 allowed you guys to go ahead and commit so soon
18:57:10  <chillcore> no point in pointing fingers though
18:57:23  <chillcore> no offence ic111 ... if you get to read this
19:09:18  <chillcore> frosch: so patch 10 I can throw away
19:09:43  <frosch123> uh, better do not apply it on trunk head
19:09:56  <frosch123> i changed 10 when committing, the rest likely does not apply smoothly
19:10:05  <frosch123> so, better take the queue on an earlier revision
19:11:36  <chillcore> I checked quickly and evrything is commited ... I do not mind merging code ;)
19:11:50  <chillcore> unless you already kow I will have some serious probs?
19:12:13  <frosch123> likely already 20 does not apply due to different indentign
19:12:55  <chillcore> indeed ... still not a prob though I did worse before ;)
19:13:21  <chillcore> hmm no it aplies
19:13:53  <chillcore> better idea ...  do manually from start ;)
19:14:20  <frosch123> just apply the queue to an earlier revision
19:14:28  <frosch123> way less work
19:14:44  <frosch123> there is no point in updating the queue, 20 will be changed almost completely anyway
19:14:44  <andythenorth> ‘flat is better than nested'
19:14:53  <chillcore> I could but then we have to bump again ... same effort really frosh.
19:15:04  <andythenorth> until you have 30 pngs beginning ‘passenger_car_
19:15:19  <chillcore> I am in no rush frosch
19:15:36  <frosch123> i just want to save you work :p
19:15:51  <chillcore> don't we seen where that takes us :P
19:15:54  * andythenorth hates organising
19:22:17  <chillcore> I do apreciate what you are saying it frosh, bbut I also saw peeps getting frustrated over something like that
19:22:40  <chillcore> eg "but but you said ... lalalala" <- not me
19:24:20  <Alberth> just reset the counter on delivery?
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19:28:27  <chillcore> ther your patches aplied  ... was just three line to adjust ... took loner to cjhheck then do ... will check again later to make sure ;) frosh
19:29:04  <chillcore> my old boss used to say: I don't care how you do it nor do I care how long it takes. Just do it right
19:29:26  <chillcore> he was kinda my second father and in the end I boossed him around :P
19:30:11  <chillcore> Not that I intend to boss any of you around ;)
19:32:46  <chillcore> But I wold like to have aboss like that again ... "and what will you be doing this week? I just need my jeep on friday so if you could ..."
19:37:38  * andythenorth back to refactoring :|
19:42:25  <andythenorth> now I have made a factory factory :|
19:42:29  <andythenorth> this can’t be wise
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19:46:02  <chillcore> frosh: in FS#2608 adf reoves some comments ... should I delete them too?
19:46:29  <chillcore> just mentioning if we are inside or outside the map ... I'd rather keep them
19:46:33  <chillcore> your call
19:47:15  <chillcore> just the comment about scaling to 16 *16 tiles I amm not sure
19:47:41  <chillcore> I mean not sure if that would still be correct
19:48:08  <andythenorth> Alberth: tell me I’m doing it wrong please :P
19:48:15  * andythenorth is on a low-sleep, low-sanity day
19:48:17  <chillcore> nvm he remmoves more ... frosh
19:48:24  <chillcore> it would no longer be correct
19:48:30  <Alberth> it doesn't look right andy
19:49:02  <Alberth> stop for today, and sleep a night over it
19:49:03  <andythenorth> factory factory factoires
19:49:10  <andythenorth> factories *
19:49:12  <Alberth> meta-factories!
19:49:27  <andythenorth> meta-app-generation framework
19:49:59  <andythenorth> just have your analyst define the logic in UML
19:50:02  <Alberth> just add a few layers extra, just in case
19:50:05  <andythenorth> then hit go on our compilation tool
19:50:22  <andythenorth> I should make it service-orientated
19:50:38  <andythenorth> in fact, I should move all the compiling to the cloud, parallelised
19:50:48  <Alberth> you have pretty much had every way of implementing it :)
19:50:49  <andythenorth> capable of accepting any valid nml block
19:51:16  * andythenorth reachs for more sanity
19:51:25  <andythenorth> and more accurate typing
19:51:26  <Alberth> minor niggle is that in the end something needs to do the work
19:51:53  <Alberth> can't make that go away by abstracting
19:51:54  <andythenorth> the actual code is fine :)
19:52:14  <andythenorth> as I add more rosters, I’m trying to remove anything that is just copy-paste boilerplate
19:52:29  <andythenorth> it’s removing redundancy I guess :)
19:53:11  <Alberth> somewhat, but the lower limit may be higher than one, in cases
19:53:33  <andythenorth> yes
19:53:35  <Alberth> at some point removing something mostly duplicate is more work than just keeping it
19:53:49  <andythenorth> also removes simple configuration
19:54:36  <andythenorth> on the plus side, I’ve mostly silenced pyflakes
19:56:31  <chillcore> frosh: I found what was confusing me ... adf his patch conflicts with your deleting in 30
19:56:37  <chillcore> yay for me
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19:58:55  <chillcore> and agian in 60 ... where you add code
19:59:04  <chillcore> I got this ... I think
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20:04:33  <andythenorth> Alberth: out of interest, when wrapping module code in main(), is there any convention to keep everything in main()?  I have some configuration that would be easier to read out of main()
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20:05:36  <lobstar> oh dear
20:05:42  <Alberth> you can call arbitrary functions of course, or use arbitrary data
20:05:54  *** lobstar [~mccrabbym@] has quit []
20:05:56  <Alberth> it's just a function like all other
20:06:24  <Alberth> it usually pays off to keep main() relatively simple, as it's the main backbone of execution
20:06:34  <Alberth> but that's about it
20:07:35  <chillcore> this gonna take a bit longer as expected hehe ... coffee time
20:08:07  <frosch123> yay, i shoveled work on someone :)
20:08:55  <chillcore> hihi. I first need to understand what you did exactly in terms of codechange
20:09:15  <chillcore> and thx ... annything to keep me away from steam for the moment is welcome
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20:15:44  <chillcore> aha it seems that adf's pacth fixes one of your fixme lines
20:16:03  <chillcore> I do remember seeing a second you've pput in but it is not in the same block
20:16:17  <chillcore> one thing at a time
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20:20:43  <chillcore> darn I need to take into account your changing to "* tile size" too somewhere ...
20:21:01  <chillcore> you added that and now he adf removes that line
20:21:25  <chillcore> so if I do that the "* TILE_SIZE" is lost ...
20:21:29  <chillcore> not good ...
20:22:14  <chillcore> er ... no he reads it later
20:22:18  <chillcore> this is fun
20:22:59  <chillcore> reminds me of my patchpack ... cargodist + extra zoom + moreheightlevels + trunk
20:23:31  <chillcore> but without cargodist this time
20:24:06  <chillcore> I never publisched with the extra zoom though way too buggy
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20:35:46  <chillcore> hmm I guess if it were easy you would have done so frosch thanks for your horse ... :P
20:37:07  <chillcore> adf moves code to a part you changed inside  if (visible)
20:37:23  <chillcore> but I guess if I do the same ...
20:38:26  <chillcore> balls to it ... just going with my gut elling and check what happens after
20:38:27  <frosch123> he :p sorry, but i didn't look at it.
20:38:37  <chillcore> always worked till now
20:38:53  <chillcore> np it is just that it is kinda six patches in one
20:39:03  <chillcore> condensed in 10 lines r so
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20:39:49  <chillcore> 30 delets, 60 adds and changes, then adf modifies code before your changes were made
20:41:22  <chillcore> would openttd look good on a cv?
20:41:25  <chillcore> hehe
20:41:40  <frosch123> nope :p
20:41:50  <frosch123> i was asked why ottd is so little c++ :p
20:42:22  <chillcore> hysterical raisons was not good enough?
20:43:48  <chillcore> I talked to this guy my age ... he took a course in Java and finishes in two weeks ... he already has somewhere to go
20:44:01  <chillcore> helps he did 10 years of QA
20:44:55  <chillcore> don't thinkn it would end well though for me
20:45:22  <chillcore> "Whaaaaaaaaat datamining? code it yourself!"
20:45:27  <chillcore> lol
20:46:11  <chillcore> same for micro transaction doodoo ....
20:48:02  <chillcore> anyhoo I do understand peeps doing it because ... rent
20:49:18  <andythenorth> ugh Java enterprise patterns
20:49:38  <andythenorth> no shortage of demand for that particular awful thing
20:51:43  <chillcore> huhu so i've heard ... although not sure if I should believe the salary he mentioned
20:52:23  <chillcore> 105k a year ... dollars
20:52:34  <chillcore> could be but ...
20:53:00  <chillcore> that a ton of moneyz
20:53:18  <frosch123> zimbabwian dollars?
20:53:38  <chillcore> 4k a month is not unheard of
20:54:00  <chillcore> lol ye probably
20:55:28  <chillcore> I did insist too much to tell me what and where
20:55:33  <chillcore> not*
20:56:22  <Alberth> america has higher salaries as you have to pay lots of insurance that gets paid by employers here
20:56:59  <chillcore> aha there is the catch
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20:57:05  <andythenorth> yeah converting straight to £sterling 105k a year is believable easily
20:57:15  <andythenorth> probably in finance, or weapons systems
20:57:36  <andythenorth> that’s approx £70k sterling
20:57:52  <peter1138> possessive 's is not short for "his" :s
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21:01:23  <chillcore> o/ peter
21:02:45  <peter1138> :)
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21:07:34  <chillcore> hmm still no dice frosch ... does not compile
21:08:07  <chillcore> must ... be ... fixable ...
21:10:03  <romazoon> hi guys, about MHL in trunk, it causes small problem to activate it in an existing scenario, i have to start a game, do the cheat, then save, then change the .sav into a .scn so i can rework the scenario. now i can t add any "signs" into my scenario, they don t get saved into the scenario, that s the first visible bug, but i m pretty sure having already a company setted up isn t so great either
21:11:20  <chillcore> ooh wait it does now ... link to that pastebin pls?
21:11:57  <chillcore> I should save it smewhere hehe ...
21:13:10  <chillcore> frosch: I get these toolbar glitches in scenario editor here too
21:13:27  <chillcore> frosch: since my tgen patch is not here it must be in trunk
21:14:16  <chillcore> checking if what FS should fix has been fixed
21:14:52  <chillcore> that tool bar glitch is easy to test ... go to SE and drag viewport around
21:16:00  <chillcore> hmm romazoon ... clean trunk?
21:16:49  <chillcore> what signs? the normal ones?
21:17:07  <frosch123> romazoon: why do you need the se to enable mhl?
21:18:12  <chillcore> I hope it is not that max height setting ...
21:19:10  <frosch123> hmm, i guess i broke the se toolbar yesterday
21:19:29  <chillcore> ye kinda frosch
21:19:33  <frosch123> i though i tested it :)
21:20:29  <chillcore> first time I check today ... first checking that FS# fix ... it compiled ok and runs
21:20:38  <andythenorth> can we have a Mediterranean Climate? :P
21:20:43  * andythenorth is moderately serious
21:20:53  <frosch123> found the issue
21:21:08  <frosch123> andythenorth: pota:ghat?
21:21:14  <chillcore> eh can't test .;; no toolbar to open gui
21:21:34  <andythenorth> hmm baseset :P
21:21:40  <andythenorth> replace toyland!
21:21:44  <andythenorth> NewClimates!
21:21:50  * andythenorth should go to sleep
21:21:52  <andythenorth> enough nonsense
21:22:04  <frosch123> i think V wants to add like 16 climates to rawr :p
21:22:30  <andythenorth> he
21:22:33  <andythenorth> also bye
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21:22:52  <frosch123> chillcore: try again :)
21:22:53  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27150 trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp (2015-02-14 21:22:47 UTC)
21:22:54  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27146): Forgot scenario toolbar.
21:23:32  <chillcore> bumping now thx
21:23:44  <romazoon> yes clean trunk, R27025, and because i want to edit a scenario made from an heightmap but wich had to cut all the top of mountains to keep details in other areas
21:24:20  <romazoon> now i just want to add those mountains top so it looks nicer, and become less usable
21:25:26  <chillcore> hmm what is max height setting of terrain?
21:25:53  <chillcore> not terrain type the other one ...
21:26:40  <romazoon> and the signs are the normal signs. i suspect here the problem is that i had to start a game to activate the cheat, then revert that to a scn, I know signs from scenario are different they stay for ever and are not editable in a running game, but now with that company that got started in the scenario i guess they are just "company signs" and don t get saved or somehting
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21:27:14  <frosch123> no idea what cheat you mean
21:27:21  <frosch123> but if you can place signs in se, they are saved for sure
21:27:23  <romazoon> the MHL cheat
21:27:40  <chillcore> that one yes ...
21:28:17  <romazoon> no they are not saved anymore after starting a game with the scenario (to activate the MHL), then when i write a sign in the scenario editor, save and reload the signs have disapeared
21:28:25  <frosch123> maybe you have some transparency option, to not show signs which are not from your compnay
21:28:42  <romazoon> i checked the sign list : no signs
21:28:53  <chillcore> also try a sign lower to test please
21:28:55  <frosch123> the list is filteres as well
21:30:03  <chillcore> toolbar fixed confirmed
21:30:55  <frosch123> hmm, why is changing max height a cheat?
21:31:03  <frosch123> is it dangerous or something?
21:31:07  <romazoon> hmm, now i retried and it indeed works like planned....but i m pretty sure it did erase my signs at some point : I was doing a to do list with signs and it simply vanished
21:31:25  <chillcore> no more dots outside map confirmed ... on top of your queue frosch
21:31:45  <chillcore> I may or may not have broken other stuffs
21:31:47  <romazoon> apparently it s a cheat cause it reset the state of newgrf or something along those lines
21:32:04  <chillcore> snowline newgrf ...
21:32:08  <chillcore> maybe something else
21:32:20  <chillcore> I still think it is a stupid setting
21:32:21  <romazoon> now i wish the cheat window would be accessible from the scenario editor...
21:32:41  <frosch123> romazoon: just use the console
21:33:54  <frosch123> hmm, you cannot change the setting with the console?
21:33:59  <frosch123> weird setting that is
21:34:33  <chillcore> maybe something ic111 forgot
21:34:40  <chillcore> console cmd
21:34:53  <chillcore> I need to check ...
21:35:01  <frosch123> guiflags = SGF_NEWGAME_ONLY | SGF_NO_NETWORK <- i guess it is save to add SGF_SCENEDIT_TOO
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21:35:38  <frosch123> the SGF_NO_NETWORK is redudant ofc
21:35:53  <frosch123> that's why it gives such weird error on the console :)
21:36:02  <chillcore> let me first give you a a fix for adf his patch
21:36:09  <romazoon> glad to know the console might fullfill my wish at some point ;)
21:36:20  <chillcore> if I had known I would have changed ISP way sooner
21:36:25  <chillcore> sorry guys
21:36:46  <chillcore> oh boy ...
21:36:54  <chillcore> anyhoo moving forwards
21:37:28  <chillcore> so much fixing what was already fixed
21:37:57  <chillcore> maybe no SE but I am sure more will surface soon
21:38:25  <chillcore> I am really inclined to take out MHL till 1.6
21:38:35  <chillcore> your call but this is not good
21:38:40  <chillcore> not good at all
21:38:44  <chillcore> grrrrrrr
21:39:24  <chillcore> no really I ghave had much patience and always kept quit ... this will not do
21:39:55  <chillcore> no lowering standards for a few levels more or less ...
21:39:59  <chillcore> please ...
21:40:29  <chillcore> I understand ic111 is used to production and all that
21:40:35  <chillcore> me quality comes first
21:40:46  <chillcore> damn
21:40:56  <chillcore> grabbing coffee
21:41:12  <chillcore> can you pass me the link to pastebin please
21:41:38  <frosch123> hmm, is there a smallmap in scenario editor?
21:41:49  <frosch123> yep
21:42:00  <chillcore> yes
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21:46:57  <chillcore>
21:47:29  <chillcore> frosh: ^^^ FS#6208 on top of your queue
21:47:34  <chillcore> bumped that is
21:48:02  <chillcore> needs testing though ... it compiles and runs and fixes what it is supposed to fix
21:48:48  <chillcore> next SE ... flag
21:49:25  <frosch123> hmm, are you sure it needs all that?
21:49:35  <frosch123> maybe the "if" in the last hunk is enough?
21:51:56  <chillcore> I really do not know frosch ... I just merged
21:52:00  <chillcore> ;)
21:53:03  <chillcore> maybe ...
21:53:12  <frosch123> well, the other parts look like things i already dealt with :p
21:53:24  <chillcore> ok
21:53:44  <chillcore> cana tile be invalid at that point in the code ...
21:54:01  <chillcore> it already has a fllag is visible
21:54:04  <frosch123> the black tiles are
21:54:16  <chillcore> indeed
21:54:32  <chillcore> mark as to check?
21:54:46  <chillcore> fugly but that way we do not foorget?
21:55:13  <chillcore> and yes the black tiles are invalid so ...
21:55:30  <chillcore> they cn not be selected
21:55:35  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27151 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2015-02-14 21:55:30 UTC)
21:55:36  <DorpsGek> -Add: Allow changing max heightlevel in scenario editor.
21:55:42  <frosch123> romazoon: have fun :)
21:55:52  <romazoon> awesome
21:56:01  <chillcore> thx frosch
21:56:14  <frosch123> it can be changed via the normal settings
21:56:21  <frosch123> cheat is only needed in running game
21:56:26  <frosch123> and yes, due to newgrf reasons
21:56:33  <chillcore> one more squasched yay
21:56:36  <chillcore> huhu
21:57:14  <romazoon> thanks a lot for taking care of that so fast, i am puzzled !
21:57:27  <chillcore> hehe
21:57:42  <frosch123> that's only because i was confused that it worked like it worked
21:58:37  <chillcore> hmm frsch maybe the if can be removed ... black tiles are drawn too
21:58:42  <chillcore> invalid or not
21:58:51  <chillcore> ?
21:59:02  <romazoon> well i raised that problem in the MHL thread in the forum but it didn t grad much attention (not long at least)
21:59:15  <frosch123> isn't the fs about the issue that the black tiles get the selection dot, which they shouldn't?
21:59:37  <chillcore> sorry romazoon that your call was not answered.
21:59:49  <chillcore> thx for the repot anyway ... keep em comming
21:59:49  <romazoon> so that s why i m pretty amazed that an hour after i raise the problem here it is solved, i find it just  "great"
22:00:02  <frosch123> call it "lucky" :p
22:00:24  <chillcore> the FS was about dots being drawn outside the map yes ... you are right
22:00:30  <romazoon> no, my call was answered actually, but just putted aside ;)
22:00:34  <chillcore> so the if must stay
22:00:38  <chillcore> no drawing
22:01:06  <chillcore> ok romazoon ... sorry again
22:01:17  <chillcore> it should have been handled
22:01:30  <chillcore> wether you reported to me or to ic111 does not matter
22:01:46  <chillcore> next time yell ;)
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22:01:56  <chillcore> demand that it is fixed
22:02:06  <chillcore> kinda
22:02:06  <romazoon> no problem chillcore, no need to be sorry ;) and yes i ll yell in here right away next time ;)
22:02:30  <chillcore> I am, there is more then your bugsie ...
22:02:35  *** Pereba [~UserNick@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:02:37  <chillcore> anyhoo have fun
22:02:59  <romazoon> thanks, and good luck to you guys fixing stuff ;)
22:03:16  <chillcore> thx
22:04:57  <chillcore> ok next prob ... Im on a roll :P
22:05:58  <chillcore> romazoon nif you know it is something in MHL you can report there too ;)
22:06:19  <chillcore> otherwise on flyspray will do too
22:11:53  <chillcore> going to bump my tgen patch now that the toolbar is fixed
22:11:55  <romazoon> ok will do
22:22:56  <chillcore> hmm the titlebar of my tgen gui dissapears when dragged while shaded
22:23:08  <chillcore> another TODO :P
22:23:26  <chillcore> for everyone I fix two more emerge hehe
22:23:48  <chillcore> but I am not surprised ... it is a new gui from scratch
22:28:23  <frosch123> night
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22:30:01  <romazoon> is planetmaker around ? i have a question for ogfx landscape...i want to know if the river at sea level bug was tackled in a recent nightly ? (the bug is that it shows wrong rivers sprites when built at sea level)
22:32:21  <chillcore> take a screenshot and post it on FlySpray rmazoon?
22:32:43  <chillcore> it is 23.30 around here ...
22:33:10  <chillcore> he may or may not be here but this is not fixed in 5 secs
22:33:49  <chillcore> and why not try a nighlty?
22:33:58  <chillcore> you'll know immediatly
22:34:08  <chillcore> what are you playing now?
22:34:18  <chillcore> version I mean
22:36:33  <romazoon> i m on the SE, so still R27025, so i wanna keep that version to finish my scenario
22:37:09  <chillcore> hmm yeah best is to test recent trunk before reporting
22:37:17  <chillcore> and why not upgrade?
22:38:10  <romazoon> i just need mhl for the SE, and then i can have acompatible scenario with the latest patchpack, and more important to me the Cirdan Newmapfeature
22:38:25  <chillcore> I see
22:38:51  <romazoon> Cirdan is always a few revision behing the nightly (not blaming anyone, it s already great that he manageto follow commits)
22:39:01  <chillcore> you'll have to live with it a little bit then
22:39:03  <romazoon> *behind
22:39:12  <chillcore> only stable gets backports
22:39:18  <romazoon> yes sure i m fine, actualy i haven t loaded ogfx landscape for that reason
22:39:24  <chillcore> all the rest is fixed in current trunk
22:40:24  <romazoon> sorry i mean haven t loaded ogfx cause i know the bug, will load it into the scenario later (at my own risk, lol )
22:41:07  <chillcore> you should still check current trunk if you've got some time ... it mmay not have been fixed yet ... I do not kow
22:41:21  <chillcore> know*
22:41:56  <romazoon> yes, i will do, and report accordingly on flyspray, just not tonight ;) i prefer working on my scn right now ;)
22:42:31  <chillcore> no wait till you've checked with recent trunk for reporting
22:42:49  <chillcore> you SE should not be saved in a later rev or no going back
22:42:50  <romazoon> hehe, that s what i meant, sorry
22:42:52  <chillcore> anyhoo
22:42:59  <chillcore> np
22:43:53  <romazoon> i will not even try it in my scn for the report ;) adding a newgrf is not suported ;) i will load latest trunk, load latest nightly of ogfx landscape, try and report if necessary ;)
22:45:53  <romazoon> and just a friendly word to you, it s nice to see you active in the community, you gave me countless hours of enjoyment with your patchpacks so i just can presume of the best seing you developing trunk now ;)
22:46:58  <chillcore> Thank you a lot, that pleasures me very much to hear that
22:47:29  <chillcore> I really needed a break and wanted to play some games myself for a bit
22:48:00  <chillcore> and yeah doing smaller patches benefits more peeps
22:48:26  <chillcore> maybe I'll do another one later but no promisses yet
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22:54:09  <samu> hi
22:57:18  <romazoon> well i have a feeling that patchpack are way less necessary than it use to be (autoseparation+mhl+script are probably the main factor for me telling this)
22:57:29  <romazoon> hi samu
23:03:28  <samu>
23:04:06  <samu> oh, crap, it has newgrf set, restarting while no one joins
23:04:47  <samu> k go
23:05:44  <chillcore> true romazoon a lot of stuff was changed over the last years
23:06:03  <chillcore> then again there are still so many many nive and usefull patches
23:06:35  <chillcore> the god thing about me stopping for a bit is that others have stepped up that did not before because of my patchpack being there
23:06:57  <samu> gonna find out if some disasters get rid of river tiles at the same time
23:08:14  <chillcore> hmm there goes my spelling again ... typing to fast
23:08:31  <chillcore> and not blind ... I need to learn that too
23:10:33  <romazoon> indeed you are right, and more developer showing up only can prove to be a good thing overall :)
23:11:36  <chillcore> hehe. I am not an official developer
23:11:59  <chillcore> That would be ... unwise
23:12:14  <chillcore> the ones that are have way better skills then me
23:13:17  <chillcore> also I can afford to make many more misstakes now than if I would be commiting to trunk
23:13:50  <chillcore> almost ... one day I made a misstake and tried commiting my patchpack to trunk
23:14:03  <chillcore> it failed fortunately
23:14:33  <chillcore> that would have been fun though ... surprise
23:14:37  <chillcore> hihi
23:15:49  <romazoon> hahaha
23:16:30  <romazoon> that would have been pretty epic mistake :)
23:16:46  <chillcore> indeed
23:17:25  <chillcore> exept that would have meant a ton of broken savegames too ... non fixable
23:17:36  <romazoon> while at it, did you had a chance to try Cirdan's works ? do you think it stand anychance to bring something to the trunk, or will it remain a fork for ever ?
23:17:56  <chillcore> cirdan's map patches ...
23:18:09  <chillcore> there is a ton of fixes in there that could benifit trunk
23:18:43  <chillcore> hmm I could have a look in there too to change my mind from time to time
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23:18:57  <chillcore> unless they got commited in the meantime
23:19:27  <chillcore> as a whole they will never be commited that is sure
23:19:36  <chillcore> piece by piece maybe
23:19:45  <chillcore> just like my patchpack
23:19:58  <chillcore> I would like all them patches in trunk
23:20:13  <chillcore> but 1 at a time and splitted as they should be
23:20:32  <chillcore> and then still ... after commit devs have to maintain so
23:20:36  <chillcore> we'll see
23:21:21  <romazoon> well that sound rather positiv to me, thanks for your point of view :)
23:21:47  <romazoon> but sure we ll see
23:21:57  <chillcore> thing is patches have to add something ... gameplaywise
23:22:09  <chillcore> eg realism alone is not ennough
23:22:32  <chillcore> it is a game afterall
23:22:43  <chillcore> 1 thing at a time
23:22:48  <chillcore> MHL fist
23:22:56  <chillcore> there are still some things
23:23:13  <chillcore> generated terrain currently is not really ...
23:23:22  <chillcore> that is what I am doing now ...
23:23:35  <chillcore> can you compile for windows?
23:24:28  <romazoon> sure mhl first :) then Custom bridge head ;) (just kiding)
23:24:58  <romazoon> and no, still can t compile anything...i m a noob scenario developer :)
23:25:41  <chillcore> Custom bridgeheads that is cirdan his patch
23:25:51  <chillcore> I wouldnot know where to start hehe
23:26:08  <romazoon> hahaha, well start by playing a game with it someday ;)
23:26:54  <chillcore> I do not play that much  ... I enjoy coding more
23:27:25  <chillcore> although playing is fun too
23:28:20  <chillcore> everytime I start playing a game I'm like hmm I need to fix that and that ... :P
23:28:40  <chillcore> with my own patches that is
23:31:08  <romazoon> well that s a mysterious way to play ottd for me (to devellop it), but you guys seems to be a bunch doing that a lot, so we might just add that to the list of different way to play openttd :P
23:31:44  <romazoon> and without you, well Openttd would still be TTD
23:32:01  <romazoon> you (coders and devs)
23:32:06  <chillcore> yeah ... coding is like a virus that bites you ... or not
23:32:11  <chillcore> ture
23:32:14  <chillcore> true
23:32:21  <chillcore> damn neednew fingers :P
23:33:29  <chillcore> I dunno there is something about loking for hours after a bug and then you fix it and go YEAH
23:33:38  <chillcore> and then you look for the next one
23:33:55  <supermop_> yo
23:34:03  <chillcore> o/
23:34:05  <jinks> It's a law of nature, if you want to enjoy playing a game never start changing it/develop mods for it. As soon as you've started every little annoyance you could live with before becomes instead a new coding challenge.
23:34:20  <chillcore> ^^^
23:34:56  <chillcore> also when coding games you do everything
23:35:06  <chillcore> code, graphics, sound sometimes
23:35:18  <chillcore> guis and interaction and flow
23:35:26  <chillcore> it's all of it
23:45:20  <romazoon> well seems like i m immune to that virus so far, i think i m affraid of the time that need to be invested only to get started
23:45:57  <chillcore> it depends where you start romazoon
23:46:14  <chillcore> if you do c++ immediatly then yes it takes a whole lot of time
23:46:18  <romazoon> i would have to start from scratch
23:46:31  <chillcore> that is not what I meant
23:46:34  <romazoon> i mean i know nothing codewise
23:46:45  <romazoon> no language or anything
23:46:53  <chillcore> eg if you do htm and javascript then you get some easy results really fast
23:47:01  <chillcore> html*
23:47:03  <romazoon> i can barely use MS dos (and i grew up with it)
23:47:28  <chillcore> hehe BASIC is where I started
23:48:00  <romazoon> but how many years ago, i supose a few at least
23:48:05  <chillcore> then moved on to html but got bored it being static
23:48:17  <chillcore> hmm lets see ... 30-ish
23:48:35  <chillcore> but I did not code all the time ... on and off
23:49:07  <chillcore> spectrum zx81 ..; when my dad was not looking
23:49:34  <romazoon> that is an impressive amount of time !
23:49:52  <chillcore> then later he gave me his vic20 because he could not get on it anymore himself
23:49:54  <romazoon> but congrats to you
23:50:01  <romazoon> cause you ve learned all the way
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23:50:31  <chillcore> I still do ... everytime I look at code that is not mine
23:51:23  <chillcore> that is the great thing about it ... there is always a different way ... faster better smaller
23:51:48  <chillcore> but I have to say that I learned most here
23:52:05  <chillcore> because of feedback and help from these gods
23:52:07  <chillcore> :P
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23:52:19  <Eddi|zuHause> zx81 was somewhat before my time :p
23:52:44  <chillcore> and players that force me to look at things I would not have myself
23:53:05  <chillcore> I just copied this game out of the manual eddi, slalom
23:53:14  <chillcore> could not save so ...
23:53:46  <romazoon> *praising the ottd gods
23:54:14  <glx> to save you needed a ram expansion et a magnetophone
23:54:30  <chillcore> I remember when we had a babysitter from time to time ... before he left he was like "and keep him away from my machine"
23:54:31  <chillcore> lol
23:55:01  <chillcore> I did not break it or anything but ... yeah
23:55:38  <romazoon> hahaha
23:55:43  <chillcore> in our day, gosh that sounds old, we had no IT classes
23:57:09  <chillcore> ye we had the expansion for ram ... and I'm sure if he had the magnetophone he hid it very well
23:57:16  <chillcore> glx^^^
23:57:47  <chillcore> then the commodore 64 ... 30 mins to load a game
23:57:52  <chillcore> cassete
23:57:58  <glx> same for zx81 ;)
23:58:32  <chillcore> it was kinda cool. we apreciated our games more, no?
23:58:56  <romazoon> hahaha, always the "it was better in the old days",
23:58:57  <glx> yeah once loaded no switch :)
23:59:11  <chillcore> just thinking about it and I can still here that noise
23:59:30  <romazoon> but the truth, is it was different, and nostalgia makes memories always sweeter
23:59:46  <chillcore> in a way romazoon
23:59:54  <glx> after zx81 we had cpc6128
23:59:58  <glx> easier :)

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